Stop losses ...ASX

[ollie]

1/ How do stop losses work

1/ How do trailing stop losses work

3/ How much is the fee for using stop losses

4/ Direct Broking does not offer stop losses on the ASX, who does ( in NZ ) and/or who do you recommend

Thanks for any help in this area, and sorry if the question has been asked before, i couldnt find it if it has.

cheers.

[shasta]

1/ How do stop losses work

1/ How do trailing stop losses work

3/ How much is the fee for using stop losses

4/ Direct Broking does not offer stop losses on the ASX, who does ( in NZ ) and/or who do you recommend

Thanks for any help in this area, and sorry if the question has been asked before, i couldnt find it if it has.

cheers.

1. Say you bought shares @ $1.00 each, & set your stop loss @ $0.90

If the market price is trading say at 95c, your order won't appear in the sell depth, but should it drop off to 90c, your order is triggered & your broker sells your shares at your preset target price (being 90c)

2. A trailing stop is different

Let's say your initial purchase @ $1.00, & the SP has gone up to $1.20, a very simple trailing stop (using say 10% as illustrated above), might mean you reset your stop at $1.08.

You should never lower a trailing stop but as the SP increases you should increase your trailing stop.

This helps lock in some profits & protects your capital.

3. Stop losses shouldn't cost you any more than the normal brokerage

4. ASB Sec has stop losses etc as part of there DIY online service

ASB Sec should really be paying me for all the promotion i do for them!

Disc: I have nothing to do with ASB/ASB Sec other than i use them both

[ollie]

Thanks very much shasta,

so if your trailing stop loss is set at 10% below the s/p, say $1 and your s/p goes to $1.20 or higher ( hopefully ), does you trailing stop loss automatically follow the s/p up keeping that 10% saftey net or do you need to manually reset it up in line with the increase in s/p.. ?? I think your answer tells me ,yes. so i guess thats means i can't see the difference between the 2 styles of stop losses.

Maybe what i'm asking is, is the stop loss set at a percentage or a price. I had thought it might be a percentage, then you could more or less ignor it as if the s/p continued to rise so your 10% saftey net would follow it up automatically.

Hope that makes sense to you.

[shasta]

Thanks very much shasta,

so if your trailing stop loss is set at 10% below the s/p, say $1 and your s/p goes to $1.20 or higher ( hopefully ), does you trailing stop loss automatically follow the s/p up keeping that 10% saftey net or do you need to manually reset it up in line with the increase in s/p.. ?? I think your answer tells me ,yes. so i guess thats means i can't see the difference between the 2 styles of stop losses.

Maybe what i'm asking is, is the stop loss set at a percentage or a price. I had thought it might be a percentage, then you could more or less ignor it as if the s/p continued to rise so your 10% saftey net would follow it up automatically.

Hope that makes sense to you.

Yes, you manually have to adjust it

Phaedrus would be better at explaining this bit, but if you choose a stock, you can always backtest it for the short/mid/long term average trailing stop level.

I used 10% purely as an example - some stocks are extremely volatile & can move +/- 20% either way, especially illiquid spec stocks.

Phaedrus, or AA or another TA chartist may be able to help you with back testing stocks

[Phaedrus]

Ollie, there are Stop Losses and there are Trailing Stops. There's no such thing as "Trailing Stop Losses".

Stop Losses provide a means of limiting your losses should a purchased stock drop in price after your buying it. They are set before buying and are never moved. They could perhaps be a fixed percentage or $ amount below your purchase price, but the best place to position them is just below a recent support level.

Trailing Stops are a type of exit strategy. They are based on the latest shareprice and rise as the shareprice rises. Most commonly they are based on a fixed percentage of the highest price, but there are many other ways of setting them. They are never lowered. Their purpose is to lock in a proportion of your profits should a stock you are holding make a significant fall from its highs.

While "fixed percentage" or $ based Trailing Stops can act as a standalone exit strategy, generally speaking they significantly underperform other indicators.

[ollie]

Thanks for you help shasta and Phaedrus,

I am more confident now in approaching this tactic, i will look at ASB sec to see what they offer , pity Direct B don't offer this facility as i'm all set up with them re; bank accounts etc.

cheers

[wbosher]

You can set stops on Direct Broking using the "trigger when" field. However, this is only available on the NZX at the moment.

This does need to be done manually, so if using a trailing stop you need to adjust this as the SP rises.

This is not on by default however, you will need to give DB a call and give them your acc number and they will activate it for you. This will take effect immediately.

[ollie]

Thanks wbosher, yes Direct told me that stops were only available on the NZX. Pity because my total focus at present is in Oz . Iv'e been with Direct since Access crashed , but i guess it's like banks today, no loyalty, just go where's the best service.

[wbosher]

Yeah, I'm on the ASX too. I think DB may be looking into this at some stage, check out - http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?t=5559&page=16 about half way down.

[contrarianinvestor]

The world's best investors (http://www.allbusiness.com/banking-finance/financial-markets-investing-investment/6723513-1.html) such as Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch never use stop-losses.

It is a money losing strategy. They are intuitively attractive and brokers love it because it creates commissions.

Ken Fisher, founder of Fisher Investments and one of the best investors of all time commented in his book The Only Three Questions That Count that stop-losses is a "popular tactical myth . . . on average they lose money . . . they feel good but are bad". Fisher also made a comment that "the only stop-loss certainty is increased transaction costs" and that "brokers love stop losses and promote them"

Warren Buffett made a comment in his 1987 Berkshire annual report: "The strategy says nothing else matters: A downtick of a given magnitude automatically produces a huge sell order . . . The less these companies are being valued at, says this approach, the more vigorously they should be sold . . Considering that huge sums are controlled by managers following such Alice-in-Wonderland practices, is it any surprise that markets sometimes behave in aberrational fashion?"

Peter Lynch made a comment in his book One up on Wall street: "I've always detested stop orders . . . When you put in a stop, you're admitting that you're going to sell the stock for less than it's worth today"

If you see shares as part-ownership in a business then history tells us to buy shares in good companies when they're cheap. The stop-loss strategy encourages investors to sell when shares are cheap. There are times when selling is wise but that will depend on analysing the business, not its share price.

[wbosher]

Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch are in a completely different ballpark to most of us. Besides, I'm a trader, not an investor. Completely different tactics from what I understand from far more experienced traders than me.


If you see shares as part-ownership in a business then history tells us to buy shares in good companies when they're cheap. The stop-loss strategy encourages investors to sell when shares are cheap.

I'm not interested in owning a part of a company, I just want to ride a trend until it looks like it's weakening, and get out (hopefully with a profit), then move on to another.

[contrarianinvestor]

I'm a trader, not an investor. Completely different tactics from what I understand from far more experienced traders than me.
Ok. Do you believe that trading makes more money than long term investing? If so why and what techniques do you use?

[shasta]

Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch are in a completely different ballpark to most of us. Besides, I'm a trader, not an investor. Completely different tactics from what I understand from far more experienced traders than me.



I'm not interested in owning a part of a company, I just want to ride a trend until it looks like it's weakening, and get out (hopefully with a profit), then move on to another.

I can't see any point in referring to WB & the like. :rolleyes:

Unless the thread was advocating buying & holding a stock for 10 years regardless, stop losses should be used, if not some other indicators should be, especially for traders.

We will never experience the same economic conditions that Warren Buffett had, so any comparison is pointless & meaningless.

People that supposedly follow Warren Buffett, may have held & riden the likes of NZX:NPX all the way down!

Thats not how you make money!

Stop losses got me out of PEM @ $4.56, & OZL @ $2.00 (best examples)

Phaedrus has said it many tinmes before, its not the best system, but its better than none.

[Lego_Man]

Im guessing its because of more frequent compounding periods.

If you buy and hold you only get the return from point A to point B.

However if you trade you can hold for smaller periods, making lots of smaller gains and (in theory) missing out on the declining periods during which a buy and hold strategy loses money.

[wbosher]

Wow, you guys are fast. I was trying to think of a way to word my reply when you guys did it for me.


However if you trade you can hold for smaller periods, making lots of smaller gains and (in theory) missing out on the declining periods during which a buy and hold strategy loses money.

This pretty much sums up my reason for trading rather than buy and hold.

Each to their own, I suppose...:)

[contrarianinvestor]

We will never experience the same economic conditions that Warren Buffett had

Can you explain?

[wbosher]

I can't see any point in referring to WB & the like. :rolleyes:

Whats that supposed to mean? :confused:

[Lego_Man]

Can you explain?

Secular bull market?

@wbosher, shasta i believe was referring to Warren Buffett rather than you.

Anyway it's true, you can compare DIYers like us to Warren Buffett. He is almost a private equity man, he can take a big stake and actually have a lot more insight into the day-to-day goings on of the businesses he invests in.

[shasta]

Can you explain?

Over time the DOW would have to go up from 10,000 to over 100,000 to replicate the conditions Warren Buffett enjoyed.

As i said, we won't ever have these.

[wbosher]

@wbosher, shasta i believe was referring to Warren Buffett rather than you.


Oops. :o

[shasta]

Oops. :o

Lego Man got it in one, certainly was aimed at anyone.

Apologies for the misunderstanding :o

I'll go to the naughty mat for ten

[contrarianinvestor]

Over time the DOW would have to go up from 10,000 to over 100,000 to replicate the conditions Warren Buffett enjoyed. As i said, we won't ever have these.
Buffett's career spanned over 50 years. 10,000 at a compound gain of only 5% p.a. over 50 years will give 114,674. Seems feasible to me since the Dow gained more than 10% p.a. on average during the last century. I assume you are familiar with discounted cash flow calculations. (Here is the formula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discounted_cash_flow) for those who are not.)

And now for the best part: 10,000 compounded at 10% over 50 years gives 1,173,909.

Einstein once said that "the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest". I tend to agree with that.

[ollie]

Interesting, and i;m firmly in the camp of the two previous posts. Earlier this year I took a 70% profit off an Ozzy miner in a day. I had bought the day before. Next following day , after a trading halt, due to a speeding ticket from ASX, it lost most of that gain. I was just lucky. Many times since i have taken profits off the same co: but mostly sold too early, hence missing more profit. I was what i call range trading, I knew the patern the s/p was taking and tried to buy the lows and sell the high's, hardly ever hitting either, but close enough to triple my original play money ( this year)

Today its s/p is $4.45 and i started trading it at $1.80 = nearly 250% profit for holders over that time, just about on a par with with me, with brokerage ?????

If this co: drops 50c on Monday, as it has done twice in the last week, (and recovered again),...... i will again be in like a robbers dog while the holders bite thier finger nails.

So i don't want to be WB, i just want to have some fun and profits and a stop loss i know will help ME from selling too early.

[Phaedrus]

I just want.... a stop loss I know will help ME from selling too early.Ollie, Ollie, Ollie. Pay attention! That's not what they are for and not what they do!!!!!

A STOP LOSS is to stop you holding on to a stock that makes a significant fall after you have bought. If this condition is met, its aim is to make you sell early.

A TRAILING STOP trails behind a rising stockprice. Its aim is to lock in profits in the event of the price making a significant fall. If this condition is met, its purpose is to make you sell before you give all your profits back to the market.

The best way to avoid selling too early is to use Trend indicators.

[wbosher]

Ollie, Ollie, Ollie. Pay attention! That's not what they are for and not what they do!!!!!

Can't you just see Phaedrus in the front of a classroom, long ruler in hand, whacking it repeatedly on the desk in frustration? ;)

Reminds me of a teacher I once knew a long, long time ago...

[sharer]

Can't you just see Phaedrus in the front of a classroom, long ruler in hand, whacking it repeatedly on the desk in frustration? ;)......

I've made many many mistakes, some of them biggies, but thank goodness for Phaedrus waving that metaphorical TA stick occasionally!!
I'm learning fast Phaedrus, rather be whacked by your Techie stick than get whacked even harder by that brutal Mr Market. Please don't give up on us just because of some embarrassed yelps. :eek:

[wbosher]

I agree. I have hinted (or actually said quite plainly) that Phaedrus should write a book. There are in fact several very helpful people on this forum that are willing to offer useful advice.

I'm glad I found this site!! :D:D:D

[ollie]

Hahahaha lol thanks Phaedrus, I'm only 61 and still very much in the learning curve, in some area's , quite a few actually.

I hear what your saying, thank you.

I know you could recommend a good read which covers this area.

Lucky for me smacking is outlawed in NZ

cheers

[wbosher]

Check these out ollie, this is just a couple that I've come across. There was another one about books but I can't seem to find it.

http://sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?t=6903
http://sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?t=6878

The second link isn't about books, it's more a case study on a particular stock. Interesting reading though.

[ollie]

Thanks wbosher,

if i get a dummies book i'll save it to read at home ( not on the train ) ..lol

[shawsie]

Thanks to all posters on this thread, great stuff.

on a similar but related topic to both lines of enquiry in here viz
1. protecting profits/stopping losses
and
2. be in on rising markets - trade to miss the downturns

can I add
3. How do you practically and proactively make money on the way down, on NZX and ASX?

I get that at the top, into cash, at the bottom, into shares ...

but say I analyse, or simply feel in my bones, that a stock, any stock, pick one, will halve over the next 6 months. is it only the big fish who can sell short, who make money while the sun isnt shining?

btw, i use nat bank, thinking of going asb on basis of this thread...

[shasta]

Thanks to all posters on this thread, great stuff.

on a similar but related topic to both lines of enquiry in here viz
1. protecting profits/stopping losses
and Stop losses do not protect profits, they protect your capital from reducing your exposure to further losses. trailing stops help you lock in profits. These are 2 distinctly different things.
2. be in on rising markets - trade to miss the downturns
You need only track the main indices, if they are trending up, then so is the market!

can I add
3. How do you practically and proactively make money on the way down, on NZX and ASX? Making money on the way down, you must be referring to "shorting", thats one tool, remember not all sectors go down at the saem time, something is always going up!

I get that at the top, into cash, at the bottom, into shares ...

but say I analyse, or simply feel in my bones, that a stock, any stock, pick one, will halve over the next 6 months. is it only the big fish who can sell short, who make money while the sun isnt shining? Nope, as long as your broker allows shorting, any one can do it. Just remember you have to cover your position at some stage!

btw, i use nat bank, thinking of going asb on basis of this thread... ASB provide stop losses, trailing stops, shorting facilities, if Nat Bank don't do it, ring them & question them why.

If you dont get a satisfactory answer, go to ASB.

I'm sure one phone to Nat Bank will sort it out for you ;)

[Ponda]

I contacted Nat Bank by email on the 23rd July this year asking for the ability to have 'stop loss' etc ability. Togeather with the ability to indicate if a Company has released more than one announcement in the day.
The reply that I got was that my email would be passed onto management.
I still have not heard of any reply.
'Mental note to self':: Contact them again

[shasta]

I contacted Nat Bank by email on the 23rd July this year asking for the ability to have 'stop loss' etc ability. Togeather with the ability to indicate if a Company has released more than one announcement in the day.
The reply that I got was that my email would be passed onto management.
I still have not heard of any reply.
'Mental note to self':: Contact them again

Ponda

Ring them & tell them ASB offer ALL the services you require at just $30 a trade (up to a certain level).

I was hoping JulianG would answer this for you.

PM him, if he can't help go somewhere that will.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Shasta Julian G has left Direct Broking & gone to London

[shasta]

Shasta Julian G has left Direct Broking & gone to London

Thanks for the update, i missed that. :o

Pity someone else didn't run with the ball from National!

[AliceSaville]

Hi everyone.

I don't like to see that some of you are considering a jump to ASB... but it's actually good ammo for me to take to my superiors re: providing ASX stop/loss orders at DBL.

I'll start campaigning asap and keep you posted.

Cheers,
Alice

[shasta]

Hi everyone.

I don't like to see that some of you are considering a jump to ASB... but it's actually good ammo for me to take to my superiors re: providing ASX stop/loss orders at DBL.

I'll start campaigning asap and keep you posted.

Cheers,
Alice

Thanks Alice

I'm not in any way affiliated with ASB, i just use them.

If you can help the members on here, by all means do so ;)

[Voltaire]

Hi everyone.

I don't like to see that some of you are considering a jump to ASB... but it's actually good ammo for me to take to my superiors re: providing ASX stop/loss orders at DBL.

I'll start campaigning asap and keep you posted.

Cheers,
Alice

Hi Alice,
good to see that you're prepared to enter the fray on behalf of Nat Bank Share and Bond customers - Julian had apparently had his wings clipped in this area and felt he wasn't able to comment on issues affecting, or offer any assistance to, Nat Bank clients.

Perhaps you could also ask whether there is any intention, ever, to correct the Nat Bank's "My Portfolio - Unrealised P/L (NZD)" amounts to allow for changes in the exchange rate since purchase. The current figures listed are nonsense. Having asked several times that this be corrected (many months ago now), and being told that DB were aware of the issue and were looking at making changes, I've given up asking. Now I simply ignore those figures, but it's a bad look for both Nat Bank and DB - the inference is that the brokers, IT people, or both, are innumerate. Incidentally, this was not a problem with the previous Nat Bank broking service offered by 1st NZ Capital. Following the lack of any action on this I have started purchasing offshore shares through ASB.

[AliceSaville]

Hi Alice,
good to see that you're prepared to enter the fray on behalf of Nat Bank Share and Bond customers - Julian had apparently had his wings clipped in this area and felt he wasn't able to comment on issues affecting, or offer any assistance to, Nat Bank clients.

Perhaps you could also ask whether there is any intention, ever, to correct the Nat Bank's "My Portfolio - Unrealised P/L (NZD)" amounts to allow for changes in the exchange rate since purchase. The current figures listed are nonsense. Having asked several times that this be corrected (many months ago now), and being told that DB were aware of the issue and were looking at making changes, I've given up asking. Now I simply ignore those figures, but it's a bad look for both Nat Bank and DB - the inference is that the brokers, IT people, or both, are innumerate. Incidentally, this was not a problem with the previous Nat Bank broking service offered by 1st NZ Capital. Following the lack of any action on this I have started purchasing offshore shares through ASB.



Hi Voltaire
Strictly speaking, I'm only allowed to pass your messages onto the National Bank customer service team.

However the fact that NBNZ traders are using the same platform as DBL traders means that technical developments/problems will affect both groups, so it's only fair that everyone is kept in the loop.

Cheers,
Alice

[shawsie]

Voltaire

that also bugged me.

do asb have a capability to trade ASX out of an $AUD account, NZX from Kiwi?

I called DB last week who said they were working on it, gave 6-8 week timeframe.

the exchange rate conversion (at Nat at least) every time is a rort, comfortably more revenue from their commission and shade than the brokerage.

[dartMonkey]

do asb have a capability to trade ASX out of an $AUD account, NZX from Kiwi?

Yes they do.
I have a cash management account for NZ and foreign currency account for Aus.. You can buy ASX directly from your NZ account but it's better to move bulk lots to your foreign currency account at the right time I'd've thought.

[wbosher]

I set up a Macquarie account for the ASX through DB. It took a little over a week after I sent in the paper work and I was away trading in $AU...easy. :D

[kiwiwim]

Hi Alice
I was with National and used their stop loss on ASX shares. However they closed!!
I looked at marketing on DB site and read that I could sell at Trigger. Yes that is right but not ASX!
Marketing a bit dodgy. It clearly covers trades on NZO & ASX.
I am also now looking around to find away to be able to place stop losses. Should not be to difficult to organise for Direct Direct broking seeing that E_TRADE does. Prefer not to have to go again through all the hoops of setting up new broking accounts.
Hope you can get this organised for the DB site, forget about the NATIONAL!

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Dart Monkey which exchange rates do you get off ASB I get TT rate off ANZ but a wholesale rate of DB this is as much as 2.5cents in each dollar better either way So I actually transfer money From or To Australia through Direct Broking as well as share purchases and No $50.00 fee this makes a hell of a saving

[dartMonkey]

Hey Possum,
I'm not sure how the rates are calculated but I'm d4^n sure they aren't wholesale!:eek:
I use the calculator here: -
https://www.asb.co.nz/personal/international/foreign-exchange/foreign-exchange-calculator
and then phone them for an actual rate.
I would be reeeeaaally interested in a comparison between DB and ASB with say $10000 because I get the feeling that there'd be a significant saving somewhere ...

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Dart Monkey https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/static/ourrates.aspx If you check the rates at the bottom of this page is very close to what you get or pay you can also get an estimate as you place an order by putting in the currency you want a quote for and then changing it if you wish to settle in another currency if you are a client but the mid point rate is very close but remember it keeps changing

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Dart Monkey just checked your link ASB. 0.8087 + A Commision is charged Direct 0.8161
Hope this helps

[dartMonkey]

Thanks Possum
certainly does

[mattyroo]

Alice - Any progress on being able to place stop-loss orders? Would be good to have these in place before the next leg down.....

[AliceSaville]

Alice - Any progress on being able to place stop-loss orders? Would be good to have these in place before the next leg down.....

Hi mattyroo,

I've had some initial discussions with Management and our IT team, but at this stage we need to complete some existing projects before we can give total concentration to setting up ASX stop loss orders.

I'd love to be able to provide a timeline on this, but it's too early to say and I'm not fond of making false promises!

Stay tuned though - we've got some exciting stuff coming up.

Thanks for your patience and support,
Alice

[STRAT]

Hi mattyroo,

I've had some initial discussions with Management and our IT team, but at this stage we need to complete some existing projects before we can give total concentration to setting up ASX stop loss orders.

I'd love to be able to provide a timeline on this, but it's too early to say and I'm not fond of making false promises!

Stay tuned though - we've got some exciting stuff coming up.

Thanks for your patience and support,
AliceI second Mattyroos suggestion for ASX stop losses. That would make life a lot easier for us part timers.

Exciting stuff coming up?

May I suggest you start your own thread for this. It would make it easier to find.

[mattyroo]

Hi mattyroo,

I've had some initial discussions with Management and our IT team, but at this stage we need to complete some existing projects before we can give total concentration to setting up ASX stop loss orders.

I'd love to be able to provide a timeline on this, but it's too early to say and I'm not fond of making false promises!

Stay tuned though - we've got some exciting stuff coming up.

Thanks for your patience and support,
Alice

Alice, Still no exciting stuff, let alone the stop losses.

Maybe it is worth the hassle of setting up another trading account if DB can't get their A into G!

[AliceSaville]

Alice, Still no exciting stuff, let alone the stop losses.

Maybe it is worth the hassle of setting up another trading account if DB can't get their A into G!

Hi mattyroo,

Thanks for taking the time to write to me.

I wish I could deliver the good news you're after, but I simply can't at this point in time.

The "exicting stuff" that I referred to back in October is very close to fruition though, and I can assure you that the wait will definitely be worth it.

Merry Christmas,
Alice

[Steve]

Alice, Still no exciting stuff, let alone the stop losses.

Maybe it is worth the hassle of setting up another trading account if DB can't get their A into G!

Surely if it was that important to you, you would have already gone ahead and done something about it? :confused::confused::confused:

Anyway, Alice are you able to give a hint as to what the exciting stuff is? :)

[davidm]

Hi mattyroo,

I wish I could deliver the good news you're after, but I simply can't at this point in time.

Hi Alice,

Any update on the development of ASX stop-loss orders at Direct Broking?

Davidm

[AliceSaville]

Hi Alice,

Any update on the development of ASX stop-loss orders at Direct Broking?

Davidm

Hi davidm,

Thanks for your query.

Unfortunately we're facing an array of technical restrictions that need further investigation before we can offer an ASX stop-loss facility.

Apologies for any inconvenience this causes, and for the lack of good news!

Cheers,
Alice

[jennym]

there are a few things that really are a minimum that you need and asb provides them:
ability to place a stop loss
an account in the currency of the bourse that you trade in, eg aud for asx.
live watchlist.
direct market access - you place an order and it is instantly on the queue.
some sort of a view of the buy and sell stacks(depth).

asb is very clumsy but it does these things. it doesnt allow you to buy untill you have the money in your account though. it is the best of a bad lot in nz. i have transferred most of my stuff there, just a couple of long term holds left.

i still have an acct with nbnz which operates through direct brokers and today, the last nail went in the coffin. a couple of times a year i have a go at a day trade. i am not a natural but i would like to be hence the couple of times a year thing so as not to loose too much.
today i had a go at ete on an announcement and bought in at 16 and ended up selling at 16.5(not a natural is right) for a profit of $50 aud after brokerage is taken out. i ended up with a $20 loss in nzd after they charged exchange rate fees etc etc. as far as i am concerned this is simply a scam. (i would have done this on asb but not enough aud at the time - this can be a problem)

asb is asb bank

[AliceSaville]

there are a few things that really are a minimum that you need and asb provides them:
ability to place a stop loss
an account in the currency of the bourse that you trade in, eg aud for asx.
live watchlist.
direct market access - you place an order and it is instantly on the queue.
some sort of a view of the buy and sell stacks(depth).

asb is very clumsy but it does these things. it doesnt allow you to buy untill you have the money in your account though. it is the best of a bad lot in nz. i have transferred most of my stuff there, just a couple of long term holds left.

i still have an acct with nbnz which operates through direct brokers and today, the last nail went in the coffin. a couple of times a year i have a go at a day trade. i am not a natural but i would like to be hence the couple of times a year thing so as not to loose too much.
today i had a go at ete on an announcement and bought in at 16 and ended up selling at 16.5(not a natural is right) for a profit of $50 aud after brokerage is taken out. i ended up with a $20 loss in nzd after they charged exchange rate fees etc etc. as far as i am concerned this is simply a scam. (i would have done this on asb but not enough aud at the time - this can be a problem)

asb is asb bank

Hi jennym,

Thanks for your comments.

I would like to clarify the following points.

- Due to technical restrictions, Direct Broking does not offer a facility for Australian stop loss trading. There is a stop loss facility, however, for New Zealand shares.

- Direct Broking currently provides a Multi-Currency Account to be used in conjunction with international share trading.

- Direct Broking clients get access to live depth (NZX and ASX) if they have completed an online trade in the last 90 days.

It pays to consider currency fluctuations when you are trading Australian shres and unfortunately, I suspect the exchange rate did not work in your favour when these trades were conducted and settled. The standard brokerage charge on Australian trades (placed via National Bank Share and Bond Trading) is AU$29.50 so if you would like to discuss further, please ring the National Bank Share and Bond Trading customer service line: 0800 88 55 64.

Thanks again and kind regards,
Alice

[arcticblue]

Alice, how do I set up a stop loss for my NZ shares?

Thanks

[AliceSaville]

Alice, how do I set up a stop loss for my NZ shares?

Thanks

Hi arcticblue,

Just give us a call - 0800 805 777 if you're a Direct Broking client - and we can activate the function for you.

Cheers,
Alice

[STRAT]

I got all excited when I saw a new post on this thead. :crying:

[kiwiwim]

Yes Strat I know that feeling.
With National Bank in its heyday as online broker, the ASX stop loss worked well.
Pitty that direct cannot sort out their technical problem!

[Brut]

Yes Strat I know that feeling.
With National Bank in its heyday as online broker, the ASX stop loss worked well.
Pitty that direct cannot sort out their technical problem!

I use Directbroking as my Investment account but use ASB for my trading account. ASB offer Stop losses & I find Directbroking very fustrating sometimes when I'm trying to buy or sell a share in a hurry. DB usually takes 2 - 3 minutes (sometimes up to 10mins or longer) to check trades & has cost me money on occasions. ASB is instant!

[jennym]

Yes Strat I know that feeling.
With National Bank in its heyday as online broker, the ASX stop loss worked well.
Pitty that direct cannot sort out their technical problem!

i started share trading just before the gfc hit. at the time nbnz was using something called
first nz capital i think. when i started, they had all the stuff - stop loss/live watchlist etc etc. within a week they took one of those facilities away. cant remember which one, it
doesnt matter. they whittled it down to almost nothing then eventually they swapped to direct brokers. the combination of this and the gfc didnt do my trading acct alot of good, although i have made it up since(a bit of a struggle and alot of learning - more to do).
nbnz really should make available an aud account and direct brokers should offer straight through processing and stoploss on asx(at least).

[AliceSaville]

Hi STRAT, kiwiwim, Brut and jennym.

Thanks to you all for the feedback.

Unfortunately all I can say is that for various reasons and restrictions we are, at this point in time, unable to deliver on the points you have raised.

Please stay tuned for further updates - your comments are not falling on deaf ears.

Thanks for your patience and time,
Alice

[wbosher]

I use Directbroking as my Investment account but use ASB for my trading account.

Other than what you mention about stop loses and instant transactions, what other differences are there between ASB and DB?

If ASB seem to offer more, why would you use DB for your investing, why not just use ASB for everything?

[Brut]

Other than what you mention about stop loses and instant transactions, what other differences are there between ASB and DB?

If ASB seem to offer more, why would you use DB for your investing, why not just use ASB for everything?

wbosher, both ASB & DB have there advantages. My wife & I have a trading a/c (short-term) with ASB in a Companies name for Tax purposes. I also have a Investment a/c (long-term) with DB.

ASB charge $30 per trade (up to $10,000) but DB only charge $29 per trade (up to $30,000)

[Jay]

With regard to Trailing stops/stop losses etc, what do you guys and girls do here if you are away from the internet for a period of time, e.g. on holiday and no access to internet or not allowed to/shouldn't be :confused:
ANZ securities now offer "trigger when price" facility but only on NZX where as ASB has a similar facility on both markets. You have to ring them to get it made available!

Do you just leave and hope for the best or sell up before if going to be away for x no of days weeks (how many if so)

More applicable to shorter to medium time investors than long term perhaps but A lot can happen in a week, e.g FBU, SUM etc
Don't think you can load a sell too far away from the current price , to get around the no Trigger when system - platform won't let you??