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View Full Version : a candidate for inspection: sdg



stephen
09-07-2004, 09:06 PM
SDG are a small property company. Obviously, the outlook is not so great for this kind of firm. However, my eye has been caught by stellar ROE, a propensity to pay out small or no dividend in favour of growth, and what superficially appears to be a good track record. P/E currently about 4.

I intend to do some deeper poking around with these guys this weekend - would welcome some doomsaying before I get carried away.

GB
09-07-2004, 09:18 PM
Stephen you talk of roe i assume -( assumption being the mother of all **** ups)you are talking fish ?? - talking of candidate for inspection it reminds me of a distant relative that felt poorly - went to the physician spoke of his plight and was promplty given a script for some large tablets that the doctor strongly suggested should be inserted in the back passage twice four times daily - my relative should then return 10 days later for a report - well when my relative ( irish you understand) returned and explained that he had duely swollowed said pills while standing in his hallway -and that they did no bloody good and further explained to the good doctor for all they were worth he might have well shoved them up is a-r-s-e- /my relative is still recovering - but as i have previously mentioned he is galic - i on the other hand disregard my heritage and believe i am of pure decent

Halebop
09-07-2004, 10:19 PM
GB - I think it is admirable that you are 100% decent.

But tell me - what of your descent? [:p]

robbo
09-07-2004, 11:23 PM
Stephie mate, I never took you for a Versace sort of guy---SDG own Hotel Versace...!!! at Sufers Paradise Queensland..which is intersting in that SDG gets a lot of Revenue from Mgt Rights/Fees and rentals...not Just property development..
SDG is a very good stock IMO--has a bit of volatility, so pick the eyes out of it--buy ex-dividend and on down days--and be in for the medium haul---and be very non-billish and contrarian in your "buying attitude"--IMO--any "interest rate scare could take SDG sub $1.00 again, but then again the results are likely to very good.

I have a lot of time and high respect for SDG management's property smarts, experience, results on the board--and clever diversification of property locations...Stephen, by the way check out the sdg website, it is excellent--and shows they have quite good exposure to the SOLID non sexy but good parts of Urban Sydney NSW.

Finally, SDG do keep the Financial review up to date with regular ASX and Media announcments ensuring quite good liquidity for us Retail Investors...maybe one of our Technical Charting friends can tell you whether you'd be able to pick them up for under $1.00--in the next few days, to a week---otherwise try IMO on a day following Property News in the ****s overnight on the Dow in the US--and when there are more sellers than buyers etc--maybe $1.03--$1.05 is okay but I'm not a good "bottom" picker...and this co. should always have okay support around these levels of b/w 95 cents and $1.10...

Remember Rene Rivkin's idea though if you are trading with this stock--don't go against the Trend--and we all know the general sentiment to Property stocks at present--but as a medium terms contrarian Investment--having established WHAT is the Bargain bargain price--"How low in a property scare/interest rate scare could the lemmings go in the next 2-5 months with a stock like SDG ???,....I mean when their are "For Lease" sighns everwhere and Property foreclosure signs throughout major Commercial Real-Estate precincts---when the market ****s itself, when interst rates spike, and everyone gets irrationally a bit manic depressive with cyclical stocks such as SDG --which the insto's do classify as a being a "property" play and might wholsale ditch such quite large holdings--"irrationally I mean"--so to be devil's advocate--wouldn't $0.85- $0.87 or even mid-high 70 cents be good buying, and I believe it is at least that sort of "attitude" which SDG requires to turn it it into a GOOD INVESTMENT...and on those sorts of terms, I do like SDG !!--and believe that timed like this it could be a 100% er plus--but timing the property cycle: ie: Buy in Gloom--is important for SDG..........

regards,
Robbo

al
quote:Originally posted by stephen

SDG are a small property company. Obviously, the outlook is not so great for this kind of firm. However, my eye has been caught by stellar ROE, a propensity to pay out small or no dividend in favour of growth, and what superficially appears to be a good track record. P/E currently about 4.

I intend to do some deeper poking around with these guys this weekend - would welcome some doomsaying before I get carried away.

GB
10-07-2004, 03:31 AM
excuse me i must have spelt it wrong - but it got an extra laugh so my spelling mistook was worth it - cheers

GB
10-07-2004, 03:36 AM
the only reason i dropped the s was because i have a lisp - and always feel self conscience when using that letter in conversation -

GB
10-07-2004, 03:38 AM
and it was bloody descent of you to point that out

mark100
10-07-2004, 12:00 PM
Note also that SDG has recently announced a joint venture with CP1, the 56% owned subsidiary of city pacific (smart operators). This project will be released in stages from 2006 to 2010. Personally I prefer CP1 over SDG as they are only just starting to ramp up their earnings although liquidity is poor.

cheers
mark

clearasmud
12-07-2004, 08:41 AM
Mark, Who is CP1. Are they listed?

stephen
12-07-2004, 09:10 AM
That'd be these guys: http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CIY.AX&d=2b

thereslifeafter87
12-07-2004, 09:56 AM
I believe CP1 is also listed separately...
Might be code CPK?

robbo
12-07-2004, 01:37 PM
Stephen,
Note that SDG has indeed come back to touch under $1.00 today...

By the way; did you read my lst SDG post??

Robbo.

quote:Originally posted by stephen

That'd be these guys: http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CIY.AX&d=2b

mark100
12-07-2004, 02:34 PM
Yes CP1's code is CPK. For some info on them and city pacific have a read of my posts under the city pacific thread

cheers
mark

stephen
12-07-2004, 02:39 PM
Sure did, and am eyeing up the last half year report right now.

My first initial concern is that although NPAT figures look great, snooping through the statement of cashflows shows an enormous outflow:

2003 2002
$’000 $’000
CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES
Cash receipts in the course of operations 165,811 110,563
Cash payments in the course of operations (247,329) (55,816)
Interest received 632 388
Interest and other finance costs paid (7,620) (2,293)
Income tax (paid)/refunded (5) (1,712)
NET CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES (88,511) 51,130

I would suppose that this represents construction costs and is not in itself a worry but nonetheless my puny financial accounting knowledge tells me the profit as such is more paper than anything else, and next year's will be highly dependant on those new developments being sold/tenanted in a timely and rewarding way - an interesting bet just now.

So I'm still digging but not quite so enthusiastic.

robbo
12-07-2004, 10:17 PM
Stephen,

think I n oticed SDG went ex div yesterday...

This stock is all about "how low-will it go??"
Personally, I think its got an excellent future, but am a bit worried about them at present "building, literally, the world's tallest RESIDENTIAL tower"--currently under construction in Surfers Paradise, Gold Coast--From Investors point of view, some cynics say Qld can be, to paraphrase the Qld Tourism Advertisements..."Beautiful One Day, sh#@!%$house The Next....", as they say.......and, in the view of some pundits,Res Property apartments, are definitely--IMO, at the wrong end of the Current Property/Interest rate cycle --esp. for "units"---shades of Babylonian(Tower of Babylon !!) hubris perhaps ???;)

Easy to get caught out with unsold units in such ventures IMO---as happened to many Property Developers in Inner Melbourne and Inner Sydney just a few months back..,, of course this depends on one's view of Qld--certainly the sharks in this neck of the woods are not as dangerous IN the Beautiful Blue Pacific Ocean; as they are "out of it"-- so to speak

But there could be a Bif Bargain with SDG at seriously discounted Price down the tracks--maybe even sub, dare I say; south of 70 cents....

Big call--I know, but it could happend IMO--so there it is,

Cheerio,

Robbo


quote:Originally posted by stephen

Sure did, and am eyeing up the last half year report right now.

My first initial concern is that although NPAT figures look great, snooping through the statement of cashflows shows an enormous outflow:

2003 2002
$’000 $’000
CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES
Cash receipts in the course of operations 165,811 110,563
Cash payments in the course of operations (247,329) (55,816)
Interest received 632 388
Interest and other finance costs paid (7,620) (2,293)
Income tax (paid)/refunded (5) (1,712)
NET CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES (88,511) 51,130

I would suppose that this represents construction costs and is not in itself a worry but nonetheless my puny financial accounting knowledge tells me the profit as such is more paper than anything else, and next year's will be highly dependant on those new developments being sold/tenanted in a timely and rewarding way - an interesting bet just now.

So I'm still digging but not quite so enthusiastic.

robbo
16-09-2004, 03:11 PM
well it did go as Low as 99 cents,

and now is Up approx 40% in a tad over 2 months...

AMAZING !!

Robbo.

quote:Originally posted by davidrob

Stephen,

think I n oticed SDG went ex div yesterday...

This stock is all about "how low-will it go??"
Personally, I think its got an excellent future, but am a bit worried about them at present "building, literally, the world's tallest RESIDENTIAL tower"--currently under construction in Surfers Paradise, Gold Coast--From Investors point of view, some cynics say Qld can be, to paraphrase the Qld Tourism Advertisements..."Beautiful One Day, sh#@!%$house The Next....", as they say.......and, in the view of some pundits,Res Property apartments, are definitely--IMO, at the wrong end of the Current Property/Interest rate cycle --esp. for "units"---shades of Babylonian(Tower of Babylon !!) hubris perhaps ???;)

Easy to get caught out with unsold units in such ventures IMO---as happened to many Property Developers in Inner Melbourne and Inner Sydney just a few months back..,, of course this depends on one's view of Qld--certainly the sharks in this neck of the woods are not as dangerous IN the Beautiful Blue Pacific Ocean; as they are "out of it"-- so to speak

But there could be a Bif Bargain with SDG at seriously discounted Price down the tracks--maybe even sub, dare I say; south of 70 cents....

Big call--I know, but it could happend IMO--so there it is,

Cheerio,

Robbo


quote:Originally posted by stephen

Sure did, and am eyeing up the last half year report right now.

My first initial concern is that although NPAT figures look great, snooping through the statement of cashflows shows an enormous outflow:

2003 2002
$’000 $’000
CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES
Cash receipts in the course of operations 165,811 110,563
Cash payments in the course of operations (247,329) (55,816)
Interest received 632 388
Interest and other finance costs paid (7,620) (2,293)
Income tax (paid)/refunded (5) (1,712)
NET CASH FLOWS FROM OPERATING ACTIVITIES (88,511) 51,130

I would suppose that this represents construction costs and is not in itself a worry but nonetheless my puny financial accounting knowledge tells me the profit as such is more paper than anything else, and next year's will be highly dependant on those new developments being sold/tenanted in a timely and rewarding way - an interesting bet just now.

So I'm still digging but not quite so enthusiastic.

KD
17-09-2004, 12:03 AM
amazing! not wrong! - take your eye off the thing for 5 minutes and look what happens - last I looked it was around $1.00 I was sort of waiting for that bargain at 80c Robbo:( - thems the breaks - good luck to all who hold SDG!

KD
17-09-2004, 12:45 AM
a snippet from latest edition of Shares


Property

The property sector has been in the spotlight in the past two years and, although current speculation is negative, industry sources appear to be divided as to the extent of the imminent downturn. We selected two companies that have managed to weather past downturns, have produced strong earnings in 2004 and appear positioned to deliver above-average growth in the short-to-medium term.

In last month's issue of Shares, we indicated that Sunland Group's EPS was likely to double in financial 2004 and the company has exceeded those expectations; at the time, its share price reflected a price earnings (p/e) ratio of 4, 65% below the sector average. Forecasts suggest Sunland should nearly match those earnings in 2005 and experience double-digit growth in 2006.

Following the announcement of its result, Sunland's share price raced from $1.08 to $1.20. Based on Bell Potter's assumptions, Sunland's share price should move towards $2 as the construction of its largest projects, Q1 and Circle on Cavill, nears completion. The company's impressive project portfolio suggests it should be able to sustain its current level of earnings in 2005 and, in the medium term, deliver steady earnings growth. Management is improving the company's risk profile by growing its property management business, and this should lead to an increase in recurring revenue.

Another strong performer in the property sector was Cedar Woods, with EPS growth of 39%. As outlined in the June 2004 issue of Shares, Cedar Woods' past and present performance indicates it could withstand a downturn in the property market. The company's prominent position in the growing Western Australian market, its success in tapping into the sought-after waterfront property scene and its promising land bank in Victoria suggest Cedar Woods will continue to build on its record of back-to-back profits, which extends beyond 10 years. Management usually under-promises and outperforms; given that it is already forecasting 10% EPS growth in 2005, there may be further share price upside, even though it has run from $1.50 to $2 since featured by Shares.

stephen
17-09-2004, 06:47 AM
I didn't buy, the debt and the cashflow scared me off. C'est la vie.

Corporate
06-01-2011, 07:56 AM
Another back from the dead...does anyone follow SDG?

Trading at about half its net assets and sitting on a PE of 9. The thing that scared me a bit was how little cash they actually pulled in last year