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ENP
02-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Are the only passive index funds available in NZ the smart shares ones?

Like TENZ, FONZ, OZZY, WINZ, etc? These are all exchange traded funds but where are just managed funds that aren't ETF that are still tracking an index?

Silverlight
02-02-2010, 03:04 PM
Smartshares are TNZ, MDZ, MZY, OZY & FNZ, WIN is run by AMP investments.

Those are the only passive ETF's on NZX.

Other funds on NZX are the european trusts, BIT, CDN, EUT, FCS, FCT, HFL, HRP, JFJ, JMO, TCL, TEM & WIT.

ENP
03-02-2010, 09:33 AM
Smartshares are TNZ, MDZ, MZY, OZY & FNZ, WIN is run by AMP investments.

Those are the only passive ETF's on NZX.

Other funds on NZX are the european trusts, BIT, CDN, EUT, FCS, FCT, HFL, HRP, JFJ, JMO, TCL, TEM & WIT.

I'm not talking about ETF's or ones on the NZX. I mean just managed funds provided by companies such as AMP, ING, etc, etc.

ENP
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
https://www.sovereign.co.nz/story_images/542_AMP_Passive_Unit__s1900.pdf

Is something like this ideal?

Or why wouldn't I just invest in WINZ myself and avoid the 5% entry fee and 1.4% on-going management fee? Where else are passive international share funds?

(I'm mainly looking for these as Mary Holm goes on about how great they are... If I can find the bloody things!)

ENP
03-02-2010, 11:19 AM
Email Mary ans ask her to provide more info. She's generally pretty responsive.

Really? I've emailed her roughly a handful of times and have never got a response....

COLIN
03-02-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm not talking about ETF's or ones on the NZX. I mean just managed funds provided by companies such as AMP, ING, etc, etc.

I understand that ASB have an NZ Shares Trust which is described as a Passive Trust. I don't know which Index it follows but it is also a PIE to boot. So, there you are, a PASSIVE PIE - what more could a fellow (or fellowess) want!

lissica
03-02-2010, 01:30 PM
https://www.sovereign.co.nz/story_images/542_AMP_Passive_Unit__s1900.pdf

Is something like this ideal?

Or why wouldn't I just invest in WINZ myself and avoid the 5% entry fee and 1.4% on-going management fee? Where else are passive international share funds?

(I'm mainly looking for these as Mary Holm goes on about how great they are... If I can find the bloody things!)

If you have enough money then create your own index- just buy about 20 or so shares and call it the ENP Index. Throw some darts, pick them based on your star sign, birthdate, etc. Much more fun that way.

Only worth it if you have about $100K or so though, otherwise the brokerage eats up a lot of it.

CJ
03-02-2010, 02:54 PM
I understand that ASB have an NZ Shares Trust which is described as a Passive Trust. I don't know which Index it follows but it is also a PIE to boot. So, there you are, a PASSIVE PIE - what more could a fellow (or fellowess) want!
They use to and they also allow you to drip feed in (ie $100 pm) which is expense for shares. Check what your current bank provide as well.

ENP
03-02-2010, 08:19 PM
Ok great, thanks for all the tips, there are a few around that I can Find, ASB is one of them, Sovereign have another, AMP, and a few other ones. I'll do my research and have a deeper look.

Jessie
03-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Ok great, thanks for all the tips, there are a few around that I can Find, ASB is one of them, Sovereign have another, AMP, and a few other ones. I'll do my research and have a deeper look.

Superlife have an international passive fund with fairly low fees.
There are quite a number on the Australian exchange. These have much lower fees than any NZ passive fund, although I am not sure how tax effective they are: http://www.asx.com.au/products/etfs_etcs/index.htm

CJ
04-02-2010, 05:54 AM
ASB is one of them, Sovereign have another,It is probably the same fund. Sovereign is owned by ASB isn't it or atleast have the same parent co (Commonwealth in Oz)?

Arthur
04-02-2010, 09:01 AM
AMPs listed WIN trust pretty much trades at asset backing. Take a look at the five year chart and compare it to the "expensive" actives like Hunterhall or Platinum. From my research passive funds in the NZ market have underperformed most fund managers. My "Passive" experiments have been done through Liontamer with better than market results as there is usually some sort of capital security which is useful if the market tanks.Cheers Arthur

ollie
04-02-2010, 09:17 AM
How about Platinum Capital in Ozzy, Kerr Neilson's international fund is highly regarded.

CJ
04-02-2010, 10:51 AM
AMPs listed WIN trust pretty much trades at asset backing. Take a look at the five year chart and compare it to the "expensive" actives like Hunterhall or Platinum. Platinum has a very good history so obviously has some clever people working for them.

How does WINZ compare to the average 'active' fund as not everyone can pcik the top performing active fund (past perforamnce is no indication of future performance and all that).

voltage
04-02-2010, 03:46 PM
WINZ has been a dreadful performer long term mainly due to our strengthening dollar

Paint it Black
04-02-2010, 06:45 PM
Again we are told by the AMP investment managers that they are unable to advise the daily NTA due to technical difficulties. This has regularly happened since Xmas and considering the management fees they charge and the low turnover is why I'm exiting WIN for better opportunities.

Paint it Black
05-02-2010, 05:22 PM
Again we are told by the AMP investment managers that they are unable to advise the daily NTA due to technical difficulties. This has regularly happened since Xmas and considering the management fees they charge and the low turnover is why I'm exiting WIN for better opportunities.

And again today - these guys are absolutely useless, with the depreciating NZ dollar the NTA information is vital in making informed decisions. Maybe they will do a Telecom and provide some compensation!

CJ
01-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Intereting article on EFT's:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10837217

- she correctly points out that smartshares are expensive (ie. high fees compared to overseas competitors).
- "For investors who feel more comfortable buying locally, the good news, says Stanley [head of Smartshares], is that there are plans afoot to open new ETFs to invest in commodities, bond futures and global shares."

I am surprised that they dont slash their fees in the hope of getting more funds under management (economies of scale). In theory lots of Kiwisaver funds should be investing into these so there is no reason for the EFT to be so small and expensive. [I am not surpised actual - NZX is well known for charging like a bull for everything they can].

Lets hope more EFT are listed on the NZX and they get big enough that the fees come down. If both of these happy, liquidity should also improve.

lou
01-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Intereting article on EFT's:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10837217

- she correctly points out that smartshares are expensive (ie. high fees compared to overseas competitors).
- "For investors who feel more comfortable buying locally, the good news, says Stanley [head of Smartshares], is that there are plans afoot to open new ETFs to invest in commodities, bond futures and global shares."

I am surprised that they dont slash their fees in the hope of getting more funds under management (economies of scale). In theory lots of Kiwisaver funds should be investing into these so there is no reason for the EFT to be so small and expensive. [I am not surpised actual - NZX is well known for charging like a bull for everything they can].

Lets hope more EFT are listed on the NZX and they get big enough that the fees come down. If both of these happy, liquidity should also improve.


I really hope they can get some economies of scale because they are pretty shocking compared to overseas ETFs. Their management fees are comparatively high and there efficiency ratio is terrible.

Look at these comparisons to the NZX50:
1 Year (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^NZ50#symbol=%5Enz50;range=1y;compare=fn z.nz;indicator=;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcva lues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;) -2% compared to the index
2 Years (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^NZ50#symbol=%5Enz50;range=2y;compare=fn z.nz;indicator=;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcva lues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;) -14% compared to the index
5 Years (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^NZ50#symbol=%5Enz50;range=5y;compare=fn z.nz;indicator=;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcva lues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;) -20% compared to the index

jpware
02-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Lou those comparisons are horrible aren't they?

Why on earth would you bother allocating your money in Smartshares?

I guess they serve a purpose in our small market and do provide an alternative option but the disparity is far too large.

CJ
02-10-2012, 08:49 AM
Lou those comparisons are horrible aren't they?Is the smartshares return/line adjusted for dividends? The NZX50 is a gross index so includes dividends doesn't it.

Is part of the issue tax?

Or is it all tracking error and fees?

Edit: regarding tracking error, I note the following which maybe different to the NZX50:

The NZX 50 Portfolio Index caps the weighting of any company at 5% (investors should note that the 5% limit is left to fluctuate between 2.5% - 10% between quarterly Index Reviews).
For example, IN the August review, RYM was at 6.67%