View Full Version : $6000 to Invest- Would you Buy 1,2 or 3 Different Shares?
I have managed to save $6000.
I'm considering investing in either 1,2 or 3 companies/shares, leaning more towards 2 or 3 for a bit of diversification across different industries. I'm going to invest at least $2000 into the health sector, also at least $2000 into either FONZ or the banking sector. What would you do and why?
lissica
29-03-2010, 10:49 AM
I have managed to save $6000.
I'm considering investing in either 1,2 or 3 companies/shares, leaning more towards 2 or 3 for a bit of diversification across different industries. I'm going to invest at least $2000 into the health sector, also at least $2000 into either FONZ or the banking sector. What would you do and why?
Just 1. If you split it up, you're going to be paying a much larger proportion in brokerage.
JBmurc
29-03-2010, 10:53 AM
If I had $6000 to invest right now I'd buy 200 x 1oz .999 silver coins -safest best investment for the next 10yrs
Just 1. If you split it up, you're going to be paying a much larger proportion in brokerage.
Yes that's what I thought, the further I split it up, the larger my brokerage as a % of the whole and more returns I have to make just to break even.
If I had $6000 to invest right now I'd buy 200 x 1oz .999 silver coins -safest best investment for the next 10yrs
Not my cup of tea, but thanks anyway.
bung5
29-03-2010, 11:04 AM
what is your risk risk threshold?
JBmurc
29-03-2010, 11:07 AM
no worries best of luck the next credit market crash is just round the corner my pick OCT 2010
what is your risk risk threshold?
Basically, if the shares go up in 2 years time, I'll sell and pay off my student loan. If they are about even or lower, I'll hold on for 5-7 years or longer until I'll sell. Risk isn't a problem.
no worries best of luck the next credit market crash is just round the corner my pick OCT 2010
It's not that I'm not aware of the market crash that may be looming, it's just that I'm not into silver/gold/commodities etc as I'm not interested in them. I'm more interested and passionate about business and property, something I can look through the financials and not just the price going up or down.
I'd trade CFD's with it and go short ;+)
But seriously if you want to invest in a good company on the NZX then you cant really go past Fletcher Building FBU - although it would appear to be fully priced at the moment so imo your timing isnt right. Perhaps keep saving and buy FBU in October when JBMurcs crunch happens , or if you simply must buy now then only spend up to half and save some your ammo if the market corrects.
Or just buy the Fonz or the Tenz type stuff or for global exposure the WIN though I dont like them much. Theres not much sense of involvement in the market with that type of stuff though depending if thats what you want
If I was only going to buy one or two shares I would stagger purchases over time to reduce the effect of poor market timing.
The company I'm looking to invest in (Abano Healthcare) doesn't seem to have been affected by the sharemarket crash last year. It actually went up during the time all the others went down.
Crypto Crude
29-03-2010, 11:33 AM
ENP-
It's not that I'm not aware of the market crash that may be looming, it's just that I'm not into silver/gold/commodities etc as I'm not interested in them. I'm more interested and passionate about business and property, something I can look through the financials and not just the price going up or down.
your mentality is all wrong...
you need to have an open mind to everything...
sounds like you would invest in something even if it is a poor performer, just because you enjoy it...something that interests you...
My suggestion would be for you to go down to the local pub,
as you are after some diversification, half goes into the pokies maxie bets... and other half on the favourite of the next race...
now that would be interesting...
...
:cool:
.^sc
bung5
29-03-2010, 11:36 AM
Basically, if the shares go up in 2 years time, I'll sell and pay off my student loan. If they are about even or lower, I'll hold on for 5-7 years or longer until I'll sell. Risk isn't a problem.
What is the point in repaying student loan when its interest free? better just sticking any money you would pay the loan off with and putting it in the bank.
ahh unless you want to skip off overseas..
sounds like you would invest in something even if it is a poor performer, just because you enjoy it...something that interests you...
I wouldn't have the interest to do as much research when I'm not interested in it so would make a bad decision. Plus I understand businesses more. Would you invest in something you don't understand just because it's going to make you a quick buck? I wouldn't
What is the point in repaying student loan when its interest free? better just sticking any money you would pay the loan off with and putting it in the bank.
ahh unless you want to skip off overseas..
Yes, the big OE. Plus with no student debt, frees up a few options.
bung5
29-03-2010, 11:51 AM
In 3 -5 years NZS will be turning a decent profit and share price recoverd to reflect that.
AIA has solid returns and was hardly affected by the economic downturn.
In 3 -5 years NZS will be turning a decent profit and share price recoverd to reflect that.
AIA has solid returns and was hardly affected by the economic downturn.
How do you base your statements? Facts or opionions? The Uruguary farming seems to be on the decline. The business is highly dependent on milk prices. Who knows where they are heading?
Not trying to argue, just wanting the know the reasons behind your opinions.
ratkin
29-03-2010, 12:02 PM
2000 in three
healthcare either ryman or fph
other two any of sky city , tower , warehouse , pumpkin patch or auckland airport
2000 in three
healthcare either ryman or fph
other two any of sky city , tower , warehouse , pumpkin patch
Why? What are your reasons?
GTM 3442
29-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Quote: "Basically, if the shares go up in 2 years time, I'll sell and pay off my student loan."
You aren't investing, you're saving.
Why not stick it on the NZDX ? SFF030 (14.5%) to the end of the year, and see what's around then ? $10k of somebodys perpetuals (MTF ? IFT ? ) at 66c or less in the dollar ?
Crypto Crude
29-03-2010, 12:49 PM
ENP-
Would you invest in something you don't understand just because it's going to make you a quick buck?
sure I would...its all about money...
I recently did it with HTM Heritage Gold,
knew nothing about the company, just heard good things...
got out and then it tanked again... lol...
... on the flip side, it went bad with WCU...I thought junior U production had to attach a premium---> it didnt...
I think I would happily invest in PEN, BLR (ASX), even though I dont understand them... but im afraid ive got my hands full with NGE and CUE>>>>
yeah boi.... yeahhh hahhargegrggrrgrrrgghhhhhh
have a great week/////
/////
:cool:
.^sc
POSSUM THE CAT
29-03-2010, 01:33 PM
ENP Three or you might just as well go to the casino and put your money on black or red. Slow down give it some more thought. It might take you twelve months to find three suitable shares. You mentioned Tel on another thread say you put in a limit order for 1000 tel at limit of S2.00 total cost through Direct Broking using call account $2029.90 & see what happens good yeild even if price & dividends drop slightly. Do not expect all winners even in the long term so hedge your bets.
bull....
29-03-2010, 01:40 PM
put it in a growth fund that way your have diversification and exposure to more stocks than doing it yourself
with $6000.
You might get a good return of say 20% over 2 years if their any good.
Of course if you know a good stock picker they would probably double your $6000 on 1 stock in a relatively quick time but higher risk.
If your got any debt over and above your student loan you would naturally pay that off as not many fundees could beat that.
Snoopy
29-03-2010, 02:04 PM
I have managed to save $6000.
I'm considering investing in either 1,2 or 3 companies/shares, leaning more towards 2 or 3 for a bit of diversification across different industries. I'm going to invest at least $2000 into the health sector, also at least $2000 into either FONZ or the banking sector. What would you do and why?
Either FONZ or an Ozzie bank share would be 'anchor' good choices as both offer a diversified spread across many sectors. FONZ as it is a basket of 10 shares and a bank because 'everyone needs a bank' no matter what line of business you are in. Even consumers need banks ;-P, and if you can avoid the instability that became apparent in the American and United Kingdom banking systems during the GFC, then you should be O.K. Australia does not seem to have suffered those banking sector excesses.
Health is I think a perennial investment safe haven when times are tough. Because of this share valuations in this sector tend to be expensive, although often deservedly so. Something like Abano has done well, but they have also sold their main cash cow, the Bay Audiology business in New Zealand. The old adage that past returns are no guarantee of future returns certainly comes into play here. It should be possible to replicate this success in overseas markets of Bay Audiology as Abano tell us that they are going to do. But investing in overseas markets always brings its own risks that are not always predictable. I will recall to you my own cautionary tale about New Zealand Farming Systems Uruguay (NZS).
In theory an investment in NZS was a no brainer at float time. Kiwis are some of the best dairy farmers in the business. Suppose you could use that kiwi ingenuity. First find land 'somewhere in the world' which has a similar climate profile but with far lower land costs. Then the 'white gold' could be sold at international market prices and the farmers could pocket the extra profit as a result of their lower cost base. The problem however turned out to be management maximising their own misaligned market incentives.
Management were paid on the amout of land under management *regardless of the profitability of that land.* So with the trend 'looking good' management bought up twice as much land as in the original prospectus. This land naturally required a lot more borrowing to develop and NZS had a 'highly successful' bond issue locking shareholders into a long term deal paying 15% interest bills. Curiously NZS advertise themselves on target to be 'EBIT positive' within a couple of years. All well and good, except that last time I looked the 'interest' 'I' bit of EBIT is a real cash cost that has to be paid! Interest at 15% cannot be wiped away with an accountants brush. So what is the moral of this tale?
The NZS land development plan appears to be working, albeit perhaps a year or two behind what was first projected because of a Uruguayan drought. What is killing this project at the moment for shareholders is the much higher post credit crunch interest rates that the company is paying. I wonder if likewise Abano will be tempted to expand into too many markets too quickly and run into the same type of funding issues that NZS now faces? I haven't studied Abano in that sort of detail so I can't answer my own question. What are the incentives in place for Abano management? I have no doubt that expanding into new markets too far and too fast can backfire against shareholders.
I am not saying don't invest in Abano, as it may very will turn into a fantastic winner. Personally I would be looking for something that has been beaten up by the market already so that there is no 'fashion premium' in my share price purchase. Or possibly just tip all of the $6k cash into FONZ to minimise brokerage and leave it at that.
SNOOPY
You aren't investing, you're saving.
I don't understand the difference in my situation? How would I invest rather than save then?
sure I would...its all about money...
I recently did it with HTM Heritage Gold,
knew nothing about the company, just heard good things...
got out and then it tanked again... lol...
... on the flip side, it went bad with WCU...I thought junior U production had to attach a premium---> it didnt...
I think I would happily invest in PEN, BLR (ASX), even though I dont understand them... but im afraid ive got my hands full with NGE and CUE>>>>
yeah boi.... yeahhh hahhargegrggrrgrrrgghhhhhh
have a great week/////
/////
:cool:
.^sc
I like to sleep at night though :P
ENP Three or you might just as well go to the casino and put your money on black or red. Slow down give it some more thought. It might take you twelve months to find three suitable shares. You mentioned Tel on another thread say you put in a limit order for 1000 tel at limit of S2.00 total cost through Direct Broking using call account $2029.90 & see what happens good yeild even if price & dividends drop slightly. Do not expect all winners even in the long term so hedge your bets.
You give good advice...
I was thinking of putting:
1/3 into an "anchor" share, like a bank or FONZ.
1/3 into a growth type healthcare share.
1/3 into a dividend paying utility like telecom, contact, vector.
put it in a growth fund that way your have diversification and exposure to more stocks than doing it yourself
with $6000.
You might get a good return of say 20% over 2 years if their any good.
I've tried my hand at managed funds, but I like the more hands on approach, I like to be in control of my investments, and getting in and out of the investment seems to be easier this way too.
And why is only investing in 1-2 shares like red or black at the Casino? If it's a good company with increasing profits each year?
evilroyrule
29-03-2010, 02:40 PM
easy. put it on aussie to win second test and make 30% in three days!
easy. put it on aussie to win second test and make 30% in three days!
I said to invest not to throw away and pray that the rain doesn't come.
evilroyrule
29-03-2010, 03:38 PM
you could buy a funny bone?
percy
29-03-2010, 04:27 PM
The company I'm looking to invest in (Abano Healthcare) doesn't seem to have been affected by the sharemarket crash last year. It actually went up during the time all the others went down.
ENP Go to Forum NZX page 3. ABA health. One of the best postings on sharetrader.
JBmurc
29-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Sounds like your've already decided to invest into ABA before you started the thread .
evilroyrule
29-03-2010, 05:39 PM
australia down to 1.14. agree with JBM however. i got me wager on. havent won one all summer so thats good news for the hapless/hopeless kiwis. i mean sinclair, really?
Rabbi
29-03-2010, 05:53 PM
Yes, the big OE. Plus with no student debt, frees up a few options.
If you like the healthcare sector go 50/50 Abano/ Ebos as both are solid stocks with further upside.
upside_umop
29-03-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm not going to suggest which shares to invest in. There is nothing wrong with investing in 2-3 shares - even if commission is $30 each way as it looks like you want to hold for a few years, so commission shouldnt be an issue.
I think its a good idea to stay away from gold, silver etc as I can see your trying to get as much of an educational experience out of this and applying your practical knowledge to find winners with good 'business' models and cashflow. Who knows, gold may go up...but its doesnt produce cashflow, and over the long term..stocks have totally dominated. Plus, its already up around 300% in the last decade?
I think its a good idea to stick with stocks and industries that you know. If you dont know that many industries well, dont try and learn them all at once. I personally have had some winners in industries I dont know (like shrewd) but reckon I have had more losers than winners (like shrewd..im guessing).
Seems like your holding your own anyway, and have a fair idea what you want, which is good thing. I've seen you post a few times already, which is also a good thing, as you have waited and watched, now feeling your ready to have a go with some real money. The good thing about real money being in the market is that you tend to look even deeper into the companies, knowing them better and can add to positions already in place.
Good idea re student loan too btw. It has worked for me, but I dont think paying it off straight up is a good idea with the points being what someone has already said or there is a regulatory change. I did make a post about student loans somewhere on this site...with a calculation.
minimoke
30-03-2010, 09:13 AM
I'd be inclined to run with one share. Do your homework (figure out who to buy) and back yourself (without loosing sight of knowing when to sell). Buying 3 shares will simply dilute your overall return and cost you more in fees - but what you could also do is paper trade an extra 2 companies.
Looking at health is a pretty good idea. Government is getting out of centrally supplied health - it simply can't afford it. Trouble is society is expecting a longer and happier life so individuals will be prepared to pay for more - especially the aged which is a rapidly growing market (RYM in Chch are about to build a $90m village). So any compnay that is producing goods to make the aging happier and more comfortable has to be worth a look.
GTM 3442
30-03-2010, 12:15 PM
You aren't investing, you're saving
I don't understand the difference in my situation? How would I invest rather than save then?
Earlier in the thread: "Basically, if the shares go up in 2 years time, I'll sell and pay off my student loan."
You are [B]saving [B] because you have a fixed purpose and timeframe. It may be a student loan, a house, a car, a pony for your daughter, but you're saving to buy it or pay it off.
You aren't investing, you're saving
Earlier in the thread: "Basically, if the shares go up in 2 years time, I'll sell and pay off my student loan."
You are [B]saving [B] because you have a fixed purpose and timeframe. It may be a student loan, a house, a car, a pony for your daughter, but you're saving to buy it or pay it off.
Ahh right, thanks for the clarification. Also regards to the investing in silver/commodities. I'm not interested in them really buy what assets are good in an uncertain/recession type economy?
ratkin
30-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Keep your money in the bank
REASON
Buying share with the intention of selling them in two years time isnt much of a plan.
Best wait till your finances are more settled , and when you understand the markets better
Keep your money in the bank
REASON
Buying share with the intention of selling them in two years time isnt much of a plan.
Best wait till your finances are more settled , and when you understand the markets better
Isn't the best way to learn by doing?
minimoke
30-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Isn't the best way to learn by doing?
Ah the old "learn from experience" method. Ever woken up in the morning with a hangover - what do you promise your self?
Ratkin/Minimoke...
What do you suggest I do with my $6000 for the next 6-24 months?
- Shares
- Index fund
- Term Deposits
- Bonds
- Gold/silver
- Futures/options
What do you suggest I read and learn up on?
- Financial statements?
- Books on share investing?
- Books on gold/silver?
- Do you expect a double dip recession?
minimoke
30-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Ratkin/Minimoke...
What do you suggest I do with my $6000 for the next 6-24 months?
What do you suggest I read and learn up on?
- Financial statements?
- Books on share investing?
- Books on gold/silver?
- Do you expect a double dip recession?
1) decide what you want your $6,000 to do for you. It might be "saving"; "growing to pay down debt"; "Growing for OE";' Creating a base which can be leveraged for future investment growth" "retire comfortably" etc
2) once you know what you want to do decide what is the best vehicle to achieve that. do the Pros Cons analysis.
3) Once you've decided on the vehicle Paper Trade to test your skills and ideas.
4) if your skills ideas work spend your money.
In the meantime think about where you have your money - have you got the concept of the power of compound interest well sorted and have your money in an account that will return you the most cash for when you are ready to spend.
Alternativley if the money is buring a hole in your pocket. Get the busines pages of your local paper, stick it on the wall and biff a dart at it. What ever it lands closest to - learn up and spend your money there. It could be a fun ride!
shasta
30-03-2010, 05:40 PM
ENP
With $6000, & looking at the NZX
$2000 in VCT (Utility, steady dividend payer)
$2000 in IFT (the Shell purchase should help bump up the profits & dividends)
$2000 in NZR (A monopoly in NZ, our only oil refinery)
Alternatively, you could invest $3000 in just 1 stock, & hold onto the rest & wait & see what opportunities arise, you'd still be getting some interest by leaving it there for now.
Snoopy
30-03-2010, 06:42 PM
With $6000, & looking at the NZX
$2000 in VCT (Utility, steady dividend payer)
$2000 in IFT (the Shell purchase should help bump up the profits & dividends)
$2000 in NZR (A monopoly in NZ, our only oil refinery)
I wouldn't say anything against any of those companies individually Shasta. But as a diversified investment strategy, your plan stinks. It looks like you are onto a one track gamble on energy prices....
Mind you, you are not alone. Last year I contemplated investing in the NZX listed Salvus Investment Fund which advertises themselves as a divversified value based share manager. However, if you look at their actual holdings, I reckon Salvus is really just a gamble on the price of oil.
SNOOPY
bung5
30-03-2010, 06:45 PM
ENP
With $6000, & looking at the NZX
$2000 in VCT (Utility, steady dividend payer)
$2000 in IFT (the Shell purchase should help bump up the profits & dividends)
$2000 in NZR (A monopoly in NZ, our only oil refinery)
Alternatively, you could invest $3000 in just 1 stock, & hold onto the rest & wait & see what opportunities arise, you'd still be getting some interest by leaving it there for now.
why in invest so heavily infrastructure stocks when you can do just one.. the best one
POSSUM THE CAT
30-03-2010, 07:46 PM
ENP at some point of time you have to engage brain & think for your self. And if you buy with the intention of selling in a set period of time your gains are taxable.
shasta
30-03-2010, 07:59 PM
I wouldn't say anything against any of those companies individually Shasta. But as a diversified investment strategy, your plan stinks. It looks like you are onto a one track gamble on energy prices....
Mind you, you are not alone. Last year I contemplated investing in the NZX listed Salvus Investment Fund which advertises themselves as a divversified value based share manager. However, if you look at their actual holdings, I reckon Salvus is really just a gamble on the price of oil.
SNOOPY
Was just putting it out there for comment.
Not endorsing any of the companies, nor would i buy them myself (i only invest on the ASX!)
rabcat
30-03-2010, 08:08 PM
I would go for some thing with a little more risk if I was investing $6000. i.e. Pike River Coal buy them at 90 cents and sell them in a few months for $1.40- 1.50. Then you will have $10,000.
Alternatively PGC or Skellurup look to have a lot of up side to them over the next six months as they recover from the recession.
If you are looking for safe stock then the property trusts probably pay higher dividends than the infrastructure stock. Also their is no tax to pay on most of their dividends. In fact if you are on a low tax rate you can claim extra as a tax refund! But the down side is they are unlikely to double there share price any time soon.
But it it your money. Have fun.
lissica
30-03-2010, 09:18 PM
I wouldn't say anything against any of those companies individually Shasta. But as a diversified investment strategy, your plan stinks. It looks like you are onto a one track gamble on energy prices....
Mind you, you are not alone. Last year I contemplated investing in the NZX listed Salvus Investment Fund which advertises themselves as a divversified value based share manager. However, if you look at their actual holdings, I reckon Salvus is really just a gamble on the price of oil.
SNOOPY
The problem is, it's not enough money to diversify unless he was to invest in an index. But what's the fun in that?
I would just get out there, do a bit of research, then make the judgement call.
We don't know much about his circumstances or risk profile, but he has little to lose. The risk of not taking risks is that he loses the big advantage he has, which is his age.
beacon
31-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Isn't the best way to learn by doing?
Looks like money is burning a hole in your pockets. It will eventually burn right through, leaving you wiser and at peace. I know the feeling, been through it myself.
Appreciate your zeal. Keep at it. The world is your oyster. The journey is just beginning ...
What did you all do when you were first getting into share/stock investing?
Was it all quite exciting and confusing at the same time like it is for me right now?
Phaedrus
31-03-2010, 12:01 PM
I bought very small numbers of shares in an awful lot of companies. You see, I believed what I had been told....that "diversification is the key to wealth". This didn't work out very well, so I gave up on brokers stock selection advice and began making my own investment decisions. While this was at least no worse than taking brokers advice, it didn't work out very well either, so I learnt to read balance sheets and began studying basic fundamental analysis. Things began to look up a little, but I got sick and tired of watching my fortunes wash in and out with the tidal movements of the market. You see, I had always believed what I had been told .....that "It's time in the market that counts, not timing the market". Increasingly I turned to technical analysis in an attempt to time the market. Unfortunately, I didn't have the patience or the wit to learn from the experience of others, and proceeded to re-invent the TA wheel, all for myself. This was a long, slow, painful and expensive process. I must be a slow learner, because it seemed that I had to make every mistake at least three times before the lesson was learned. I was completely self-taught. It was expensive tuition, but I did learn. Eventually. In time, I found that by using both FA and TA in a disciplined manner, I was able to make a living from the market and gave up my "real" job altogether. I did this primarily because my career was by then taking up most all of my time, leaving too little for other things like sailing, travelling, skiing, sport cars etc. I had nice toys and no time to play with them. I wanted to spend more time on my many hobbies, more time with those near and dear to me. My wife, children, friends, dog. It all worked out really well and I wish I had quit even earlier than I did.
ENP, with just $6000 at stake, it really doesn't matter too much what you do. It's not much to lose and won't make you rich even if you double your money. At your age I wouldn't have dreamed of asking anyones advice - let alone taking it - and neither should you. Make your own mistakes - they are the ones you will really learn from. Are you having fun? Do you have a car/motorbike? Girlfriend? Interests you want to pursue? You could have a lot of fun with $6000 and you are only young once. Embrace it. If you want to get involved in the sharemarket now (or later) invest in yourself. There are plenty of good books out there - buy some and learn.
Defer your entry - at least until you feel that you know what you are doing.
Phaedrus you are indeed a wise (old?) owl. More sage advice on top of the excellent technical advice so patiently metered out.
percy
31-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Phaedrus you are indeed a wise (old?) owl. More sage advice on top of the excellent technical advice so patiently metered out.
Yes as always sage advice.
Yes, thanks Phaedrus. That's a really good post. I'm beginning to realise it's only $6000. In the perspective of things, it's not that much money for me.
If I lose $1000, $2000, etc then it will be good education none the less. I'm not going to learn much turning my money over to the bank am I. And the potential returns and other things I think are worth it.
Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll keep you updated next week on what I've decided.
minimoke
31-03-2010, 12:42 PM
Y I'm not going to learn much turning my money over to the bank am I.
That will be true if you have learnt all there is to be learnt about putting money into the bank. Good luck with your decision.
upside_umop
31-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Thats true, P. But $50 or $60k or more can be a great start when heading out of uni...pay off the loan, buy a house, invest in a business or continue to invest.
I'm not saying he will make that much money, but if he holds say a part time job* (10-15 hours a week), works over summer, and has a little persistence taking up the stock market as a bit of a hobby, its certainly possible. Even with a girlfriend.
How much longer do you have to go at uni ENP? What are studying? (I'm guessing its accounting/finance related...?)
*There are part time out there where they will sit you on front a computer in the service line industry...heaps of spare time to surf and research = more time for girls, toys, and cars...maybe stay away from the expensive cars as its hard to go backwards in luxury!!
Even with a girlfriend.
How much longer do you have to go at uni ENP? What are studying? (I'm guessing its accounting/finance related...?)
*There are part time out there where they will sit you on front a computer in the service line industry...heaps of spare time to surf and research = more time for girls, toys, and cars...maybe stay away from the expensive cars as its hard to go backwards in luxury!!
I've finished uni. Been working full time for 4 months. Did agribusiness and horticulture bachelors degree in applied science at Massey.
I drive my mums old 1992 Nissan Bluebird, still going strong!
Just bought $6000 worth of shares in RYM Ryman Health at $2.09
Come on grandad and grandma... Show me the money :D
beacon
01-04-2010, 02:10 PM
Just bought $6000 worth of shares in RYM Ryman Health at $2.09
Welcome to the brave new world :D
Pumice
01-04-2010, 02:18 PM
Just bought $6000 worth of shares in RYM Ryman Health at $2.09
Come on grandad and grandma... Show me the money :D
Good work, It'll grow faster than you think, i came out of uni with a $70k S/L and zero savings and after 5 years of investing have managed to get to 60-70K mark (on a median NZ income). certainly can't afford a mortgage so I have just saved those repayments and invested instead.
Im invested in oil, oil (BP and NZR) and old people (RYM)
Seems to be working ok
Good luck.
Very exciting to finally be in the sharemarket. Thanks for all the help once again everyone, even though I may have been difficult to deal with at times.
Happy investing!
percy
01-04-2010, 02:52 PM
Just bought $6000 worth of shares in RYM Ryman Health at $2.09
Come on grandad and grandma... Show me the money :D
Well done.Massive growth without coming back to shareholders.Talk about compound growth.If you can go to an open day and have a look around.I found It most impressive.The CO talks plainly and I am sure you would be very happy to see Nana in one of their homes.
Please do not get bored with your holding.Watch,read,look and unless they do something you think is wrong hang on to your shares.I would love you to point out in 30 years time you have a large share portfolio with your original RYM holding still there but now worth MEGA bucks.Good investing.
whatsup
01-04-2010, 03:19 PM
XRO xro xro XRO
ratkin
01-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Ryman certainly never did me any harm , picked them up years ago and sold them for big profits.
If your looking for an aussie healthcare stock to go with your nz one consider Ramsay health care . Although you
have missed out on the recent 20% gain , they have the potential to keep creeping up for years to come
Lawso
01-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Congratulations, ENP. I think you've made a good decision. I've been reading this thread with interest but didn't bother to add my two bits worth because you were already being inundated with advice. I'm glad you didn't fall for some of the crackpot ideas put forward. RYM can't help but gain in value. If they operate a Dividend Reinvestment Plan I urge you to join it. In cash, your divs will only be peanuts but reinvestment will give you the benefit of compounding, the longer the better. Good luck, and may this be the first of many years of successful investing.
I think from now on I'll save up to $3000 lots in an online savings account and look to invest this and also DEFINITELY re-invest my dividends back into my investments.
fungus pudding
01-04-2010, 04:22 PM
The bluebird, or yur mum?
minimoke
01-04-2010, 05:21 PM
Just bought $6000 worth of shares in RYM Ryman Health at $2.09
Come on grandad and grandma... Show me the money :D
Well done. I think I'm about 350% ahead with that purchase. Still happy enough to hold.
When did you buy them minimoke?
I see that company getting better and better. I'll probably buy more if they come on sale. (I probably bought on a high-ish price today but they are quite a good start I thought)
Snow Leopard
01-04-2010, 10:16 PM
I think from now on I'll save up to $3000 lots in an online savings account and look to invest this and also DEFINITELY re-invest my dividends back into my investments.
I see that company [RYM] getting better and better. I'll probably buy more if they come on sale. (I probably bought on a high-ish price today but they are quite a good start I thought)
I firmly believe that RYM is an excellent investment and own a few shares in them myself. However 'expect the unexpected' is as valid in the share market as much as any other area of life. So I would suggest that you buy into a few different companies before increasing your RYM stake.
best wishes
Paper Tiger
Cannibal
02-04-2010, 10:11 AM
I think a lot of us were sitting on the sidelines not wanting to scare a newbie away...
For a 2 year timeframe I would have picked - in no particular order - one of these
PGC
BLT
or
XRO xro xro XRO
I think a lot of us were sitting on the sidelines not wanting to scare a newbie away...
Yes I was a sideline sitter...watching to see how it all would pan out in the end.
ENP...Being a newbie and starting a thread like this would've taken guts...well done.
Your RYM purchase is not too shabby either...Welcome to the world of share investing ..The posters to your thread + us sideline sitters will be wishing you well:t_up:.
Dazza
05-04-2010, 11:17 PM
ah ENP
u remind me of myself when i was at first year uni not so long ago
i tell u what i did
i had 4k saved up
brought tel whs skc and cen
after 11 months - getting 7-8% divi return and BUGGER all capital gains..
i decided to sell out and buy NZO options NZOOC i tink they were back in the days.
i tell u what, ur 6k put into fonz dividend and also healthcare will do bugger all for u.
i thought to myself all these stocks are grandpa stocks.
look mate ur 6k, u will earn that and save that in a few months time once u have a job
we got no family no house no mortgage and 40 years of working income ahead of us
so why not with that 6k go for all growth companies, start with nzx
but then jump asap to asx - to the miners, its amazing i tell u
ive been thru the nickel boom the uranium boom and then the gold boom.
all fun, i rode it up in the 05-07 years and then rode it down in the 08/09 years
one thing i leanrt - DO NOT MARGIN LEND UR SHARES.
its a great experience, one that i will show to my children one day.
key here is to start EARLY!
i started 6 years ago.. and i reckon i was behind, i should have started 9 years ago to fully capture the mining boom.
sorry but nzx is real crusty the markets they have , really its only FBU and that i feel doesnt have much growth potential.
disc: only own EBO and NZO in nzx.
rest in asx like jbmerc and SC.
How many different companies/shares does everyone own and how many companies do you follow or keep an eye on regularly?
bung5
09-04-2010, 10:20 AM
How many different companies/shares does everyone own and how many companies do you follow or keep an eye on regularly?
Own 5 . Watchlist 25.
Own 5 . Watchlist 25.
Are they all NZ companies or some in AUS/USA/UK?
Cannibal
09-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Own 5 . Watchlist 25.
Own 8 shares - 4 on the NZX and 4 on the ASX.
Currently watching about 7 mining companies in Oz - that's were the money is.
If you get it right!
bung5
09-04-2010, 11:35 AM
Are they all NZ companies or some in AUS/USA/UK?
all on listed NZX but 1 is ausy company, 1 UK and 1 south america
Crypto Crude
09-04-2010, 11:41 AM
6k in Ryman? hummm....
humm...
probably a solid 2 years ago I went to a conference where 3 companies presented.. One of them was Ryman, I personally spoke to Simon Challies The CEO afterwards...
I rate that guy, he had some very tough questions that were answered well in the question section of his presentation...
I peppered the dude about the looming housing market infront of a few hundred people,
which lead to non stop questions from the crowd on the subject...
The intuition is right and explains why the company has gone sideways for 2 years and abit
Ryman Healthcare is tied to land and buildings... So when the housing market is a poor performer (which will likely continue to be the case), then so will the stock....
Ryman is somewhat diversified from its buildings, not dependant on the value of them, but you will find that its asset values of buildings and land will be falling on its balance sheet, which really does alter the state of the company...
great great NZ company with a big future...
your a sitting duck with Ryman... when the market is not falling, then you want to be making good money, so that when your bear goes into hybernation, that you have a good buffer to rest on...
I dont think there will be another market crash (I think there will only be corrections),
Dazza is right......
you are just a kid, start acting like one and take abit more risk...
If you think like a squirrel, you will become a squirrel...
....
rap your juicy tenticles around a hot mining stock, and pump those funds...
If you want that portfolio to boil, add oil...
....
think about it next time around,
you have made a first entry level investment which is most important.......
now that you have gone all popa on us, you will have plenty of time to find a strong growth stock on your next outing...
good luck pops...
:cool:
.^sc
What about options/futures on the ASX
Many of you get involved in these or solely trade in options as opposed to shares?
Silverlight
09-04-2010, 12:05 PM
I dont think there will be another market crash (I think there will only be corrections),
Totally disagree
rap your juicy tenticles around a hot mining stock, and pump those funds...
Totally agree.
The debt led recovery will come home to roost at some point, the western economies will be hit by a harder recession and NZ will be effected. We export 25% of our output, and if no one is buying prices drop, then NZ businesses will suffer, thats where we are heading, save your pennies, and invest in business that sells stuff china needs, or will not be effected by an world economic meltdown.
Crypto Crude
09-04-2010, 12:06 PM
From one extreme to another...
For you I wouldnt worry about those things just yet...
If you are having these ideas then spend plenty of time studying them, and when you find that special stock, then buy options in it...
Stay away from futures...
:cool:
.^sc
will not be effected by an world economic meltdown.
What kind of businesses are these? Supermarkets, fast food, toothpaste, etc?
Crypto Crude
09-04-2010, 12:26 PM
what kind of businesses are these?
energy, oil, metals...
All the good things you dont like....
:cool:
.^sc
Aren't these price competitive industries where lots of companies battle each other for the lowest price to get consumers rather than have a strong branding?
That's why I haven't looked into them?
Can you please critique my above comment and give me some facts?
Thanks.
Crypto Crude
09-04-2010, 01:16 PM
ENP,
Aren't these price competitive industries where lots of companies battle each other for the lowest price to get consumers rather than have a strong branding?
Continuing on from what was said in previous posts...
If I am reading your question correctly, you are getting confused between the different nature of import export sectors of these Asian Economies...
in the above quote you are talking about the output of goods and services...
where yes, the Chinese are cut throat in Manufacturing, pricing and economies of scale...
where resources fit into this is they are the inputs used to produce outputs, and as such have no competitive nature towards consumers and branding...
are we on the same page? or am I confusing you now too...hehehe
:cool:
.^sc
So resources such as the mining companies in AUS aren't really competing against one another for price but companies such as telecom and vodafone and 2 degrees are?
Back in my day.... :D
Careful young fella.....Markets are cyclic...Grandpop days repeat :scared:.
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/Squirrel.jpg
Quote from consumerist (http://consumerist.com/2009/09/your-investor-brain-squirrel-monkey-or-lizard.html)....." "The squirrel brains are often the most successful investors. These guys take the time to hunt for nuts to store for the future instead of eating them all in one place." Dull, right? Maybe so, but while the monkey and lizard don't end up with much over the long term, the squirrels "build their savings with monthly nut deposits, then sit back in the tree and enjoy their leisure time without worry."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day (when the dinosaurs ruled the earth :eek2: ).... the older more wise used to teach boring life experiences to their young impetuous ambitious offspring by telling stories... fables ..nursery rhymes etc....nowadays the older much less wiser leave their kids in front of the TV to watch Shortland St to gain paranoia social mental skills and game consoles to play GTA to teach them how to physically destroy things and give them a sense of being "Bullet Proof" ...***(See at the bottom of this post)
Here's one fable for ya....from a very oldie
..from http://www.articlesbase.com/finance-articles/stock-market-wisdom-the-tortoise-and-the-hare-135948.html.
Stock Market Wisdom - The Tortoise And The Hare
Once upon a time, there was a young hare, a hotshot rabbit investor who would always brag to anyone that would listen and that he was the smartest, fastest, best performing investor in the world. He would constantly tease the old tortoise about his slow, Solid investment style.
Then, one day, the annoyed tortoise answered back: "There is no denying that you are very aggressive in your Investment Strategy. You take very high risks and get high returns. But even you can be beaten."
The young hare squealed with laughter. "Beaten? By whom? Surely not by you. I bet there's nobody in the world that can win against me, because I'm so good. If you think that you can beat me, why don't you try?"
Provoked by such bragging, the tortoise accepted the challenge. Each of them put an equal amount of money into a new account and the race was on. The hare yawned sleepily as the meek tortoise trudged slowly off.
As might be expected, the tortoise invested in high quality blue chips, companies with household names.
The hare, as anticipated, invested his money in dotcom stocks and options.
You know the story. The aggressive hare jumped out to a big early lead. In a rising market, the highest risk Stocks perform the best. This is called momentum investing. Money flows into the investments that are performing the best.
The hare, having jumped out to such a large early lead, stopped paying attention to the market environment. Basically, he fell asleep. He thought to himself, "I'll have 40 winks and still remain way ahead of that stupid old turtle."
The hare awoke from his sleep and gazed around looking for the tortoise, who was nowhere in sight. Unfortunately, while he was sleeping, dreaming about what he would do with his winnings, the market turned against him.
His very high-risk Portfolio had taken a terrible beating and was now practically worthless.
The tortoise, a Warren Buffett style investor, had passed the sleeping rabbit long ago. He had been plodding forward, steadily, since the beginning of the contest. The Tortoise never for a moment stopped, but went on with a slow but steady pace straight to the end of the course.
The hare realized that the tortoise was way ahead of him, and away he dashed. He leaped and bounded while gasping for breath, but it was too late. The tortoise had beaten him.
There are two very important lessons to be learned here.
First - slow and steady wins the race.
Second - never confuse your own intelligence with a bull market.
Gary Wollin (http://www.articlesbase.com/authors/gary-wollin/11897) - About the Author:
Gary Wollin is a Warren Buffet style investment advisor with 45+ years of Wall Street experience. He has been regularly featured in many financial publications around the world. He writes and speaks on sales, customer loyalty, and the stock market. http://www.garywollin.com (http://www.garywollin.com/)
***..... can't wait for God of War III:t_up: ..getting it next week...Hey Guys!!! :mad ;: just because I'm old doesn't mean to say I'm dead.
That's what I want to be. A mid-long term value investor.
I'm not too keen on options or day trading but I keep getting the feeling I'm missing on making all the good returns.
upside_umop
09-04-2010, 02:22 PM
So resources such as the mining companies in AUS aren't really competing against one another for price but companies such as telecom and vodafone and 2 degrees are?
I know where your coming from. Your coming from the Warren Buffett, 'durable competitive advantage' side right?
Mining companies don't exactly fall into this category, as generally, mines are considered to economical based off the long run marginal cost of extraction of all the players involved. For example, if you think about something similar, like oil, the next marginal producer is generally considered deep sea production/canadian tar sands (around $70 + a barrel). If another producer is profitable at $50, gross profit is $20, at this long run marginal cost of extraction. Now, the interesting part comes when the cost of marginal production goes up...if it say reaches $110, then profit for that relatively cheaper producer increases around 200%, but for that marginal producer is only maybe 40-50%. This would be a competitive advantage in the oil industry so to speak. But all in all, they are competing against each other, as they try to make their production as economical as possible to make more profit and in markets this should lower prices. However, there still exists those producers that have more leverage with resultant price increases than other producers (such as marginal producers).
Warren Buffet is also been known to buy resource companies when they have big reserves that are not reflected by their market cap - ie value investing. He did balls up when he bought Connoco P when oil was reaching all time highs, but thats another story.
I know where your coming from. Your coming from the Warren Buffett, 'durable competitive advantage' side right?
Yes. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. I understand where he's coming from. I'm not up to speed on most of the sharemarket jargon or how to value oil/mining companies.
Thanks for the input though. I've got lots to learn.
Snoopy
10-04-2010, 11:05 AM
That's what I want to be. A mid-long term value investor.
I'm not too keen on options or day trading but I keep getting the feeling I'm missing on making all the good returns.
If you run a Buffett style investment strategy you will get that feeling a lot around here ENP. One thing you have to bear in mind with the likes of Buffett is that he almost always misses the latest hot thing and current trend. This is an inevitable consequence of buying value. You can never invest in what is popular because 'popularity' is what brings in the rah rah type traders who will buy any share in any category as long as it is going up. Often such investors have a delusion that they will be able to sell up whenever they want to. Invariably they can do this 95% of the time which feeds the delusion. But when they really want to sell out they can't unless they take a massive discount to their stop loss position. So get used top that feeling of 'missing out' ENP. Fortunately if you continue to follow a Buffett style strategy, you will also miss out on the inevitable crash when whatever the current fad that everyone is talking about ends.
Look at this quote from Shasta who I would normally class as one of the more sensible investors around here
"you are getting confused between the different nature of import export sectors of these Asian Economies..."
The key word to notice here is 'different'. Those who get caught up in fads do so under the belief that this time it is different. It should ring alarm bells whenever you see this word 'different' to justify an investment strategy.
It can be different for a while. But in the end normal market rules will reassert themselves
Shasta has convinced himself that the consumer end of the market is the subject of supply and demand economics, but the import raw materials end is not. He has been around for a while but not long enough to know what happens when commodity markets turn down. Be warned that investing, long term, in commodities is a lot more difficult than most on this forum think it is.
SNOOPY
troyvdh
10-04-2010, 11:54 AM
Dear Shrewd....re your post a while back about RYM...where you state that the share price had gone "sideways" for just over 2 years....ahhhhh aint there a little blip of 100 % in that period.....if thats what you call "side ways" I would love to hear what you would call "solid gains".
Disc just bought 5000 rym
shasta
10-04-2010, 03:35 PM
If you run a Buffett style investment strategy you will get that feeling a lot around here ENP. One thing you have to bear in mind with the likes of Buffett is that he almost always misses the latest hot thing and current trend. This is an inevitable consequence of buying value. You can never invest in what is popular because 'popularity' is what brings in the rah rah type traders who will buy any share in any category as long as it is going up. Often such investors have a delusion that they will be able to sell up whenever they want to. Invariably they can do this 95% of the time which feeds the delusion. But when they really want to sell out they can't unless they take a massive discount to their stop loss position. So get used top that feeling of 'missing out' ENP. Fortunately if you continue to follow a Buffett style strategy, you will also miss out on the inevitable crash when whatever the current fad that everyone is talking about ends.
Look at this quote from Shasta who I would normally class as one of the more sensible investors around here
"you are getting confused between the different nature of import export sectors of these Asian Economies..."
The key word to notice here is 'different'. Those who get caught up in fads do so under the belief that this time it is different. It should ring alarm bells whenever you see this word 'different' to justify an investment strategy.
It can be different for a while. But in the end normal market rules will reassert themselves
Shasta has convinced himself that the consumer end of the market is the subject of supply and demand economics, but the import raw materials end is not. He has been around for a while but not long enough to know what happens when commodity markets turn down. Be warned that investing, long term, in commodities is a lot more difficult than most on this forum think it is.
SNOOPY
Thanks for the kind words Snoopy, but i think you are quoting Shrewd Crude in your post
ratkin
11-04-2010, 09:38 AM
That's what I want to be. A mid-long term value investor.
I'm not too keen on options or day trading but I keep getting the feeling I'm missing on making all the good returns.
Long term is good , it was your intention to sell after two years that i didnt like. Two years isnt long term.
Look at Ryman over a ten year period and you have very solid gains , yet over two years it may not even move.
Dont worry about all the boasting traders , most tend to not mention their losing trades, only the winning ones . They also fail to mention the capital gains tax and large brokerage bills they face, not to mention data and software costs
STRAT
11-04-2010, 03:16 PM
Two years isnt long term.
2 years is a lifetime or six in this game :D
I'm beginning to see why this site is called share "trader" and not share "investor"
Lots of people out to make a quick dollar as opposed to long term wealth?
h2so4
12-04-2010, 07:51 AM
We are all here to make money, and there are lots of ways to do it. Sharetrader is a mixed bag, some traders some investors, take what you want.
Lizard
12-04-2010, 08:18 AM
I'm beginning to see why this site is called share "trader" and not share "investor"
Rather ironic coming after posts from Snoopy, Ratkin and Troyvdh - some of the most long-term, value investors that you are likely to find on (or beyond) ShareTrader. :)
STRAT
12-04-2010, 05:34 PM
I'm beginning to see why this site is called share "trader" and not share "investor"
Lots of people out to make a quick dollar as opposed to long term wealth?Hi ENP. Either way the goal is to create wealth. How often one trades is incidental I reckon.
For me this is a hobby. The money involved is in for the long haul but I have no skill at picking stocks for long term holding. I play the game in a way that works for me.
Just remember theres only a fine line between a share Invester and a share collector :eek2::lol:
PS
to the original question
6k? and no other holdings. Buy 3. Too easy to go under with all your eggs in one basket
Crypto Crude
13-04-2010, 03:23 PM
Opps Troy... I was being loose with the truth... I meant 3 years ago when RYM share price was 40cents higher than today...:p....
Snoopy,
I like you dude, especially for the way you handled big daddy mackdunk...
BUT I dont know how you came up with some of that crap you said about me.....
If you follow the flow of posts it would seem that that was what ENP was talking about.... Dont be putting words in my mouth about Fads, supply and demand economics...
pfft...I wil leave it at that...
Upside Umop,
good post,
In theory what you are saying is correct...
But do you actually believe it...
do you think that Oilers really do compete on costs of its competitors to put downward pressure on prices?
:cool:
.^sc
Snoopy
14-04-2010, 06:24 PM
Snoopy,
I like you dude, especially for the way you handled big daddy mackdunk...
BUT I dont know how you came up with some of that crap you said about me.....
If you follow the flow of posts it would seem that that was what ENP was talking about.... Dont be putting words in my mouth about Fads, supply and demand economics...
pfft...I wil leave it at that...
Shrewd I admire your enthusiasm. I certainly don't want to single you out, in fact I got the name wrong as Shasta pointed out. Although 'singling someone out' is a natural unavoidable consequence when you quote someone I suppose. However, from the point of view of your own wealth 'you' (any sharetrader member) need to think about this question:
"What proportion of (insert any sharetrader forum member name here)'s portfolio is invested in resources?"
If the answer is 90%+, then IMO that person needs to think seriously about whether they are following a fad.
SNOOPY
Crypto Crude
15-04-2010, 03:17 PM
Fad-A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.
FAD.... lol...
stop trying to humour the thread...
:D
.^sc
Casa del Energia
15-04-2010, 03:58 PM
I have managed to save $6000.
I'm considering investing in either 1,2 or 3 companies/shares, leaning more towards 2 or 3 for a bit of diversification across different industries. I'm going to invest at least $2000 into the health sector, also at least $2000 into either FONZ or the banking sector. What would you do and why?
If you are about to embark on the 'great investment journey' then you have many years of 'winning' and 'losing' ahead - and a lot to find out about your own investment behaviour - - therefore buy 4 stocks (use an el cheapo broker like Direct) and get your 'eye in' with them.
After a while you will get a more of a feel for your natural investment 'style' and make adjustments over time.
Buy some 'old' safety stocks to start with ANZ, FBU, KIP, SAN, CEN and the like - they will get you used to how the market moves and behaves without (hopefully) giving any nasty shocks - - after a while things will 'click' into place and you will have a stronger idea of how you like to 'play' it.
It takes time to build your 'style' and skill set - paitience and practice, and don't worry about the inevitable goof ups
- good hunting.
Well..
Here is a 8-9 month update if anyone is interested. I made the dumb decision to sell out of RYM at $2.17.
I was young, stupid and based my decisions on emotion. If I had kept the shares, today they would be up around 15% including dividends.
I'm basically back at square one. My savings are in term depsoits earning diddly squat 5% but I've managed to save up around $16,000 now.
I'm sitting on the cash, looking at CCL, WOW and of course, still RYM.
h2so4
22-01-2011, 02:33 PM
No dumb decisions here. You are building confidence. Going with your emotions is easy.
Be easy build more confidence.
Saving $10000 is excellent. Saving $1100 to $1200 per month you can afford to split your money over 2 shares. In time these will become a smaller part of your overall portfolio.
I would be looking at longer time frames for portfolio growth' measured in years not months.
Unless your a trader then it's 22 seconds.:)
percy
22-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Well..
Here is a 8-9 month update if anyone is interested. I made the dumb decision to sell out of RYM at $2.17.
I was young, stupid and based my decisions on emotion. If I had kept the shares, today they would be up around 15% including dividends.
I'm basically back at square one. My savings are in term depsoits earning diddly squat 5% but I've managed to save up around $16,000 now.
I'm sitting on the cash, looking at CCL, WOW and of course, still RYM.
Buy them back.Lesson learnt.
JBmurc
22-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Well..
Here is a 8-9 month update if anyone is interested. I made the dumb decision to sell out of RYM at $2.17.
I was young, stupid and based my decisions on emotion. If I had kept the shares, today they would be up around 15% including dividends.
I'm basically back at square one. My savings are in term depsoits earning diddly squat 5% but I've managed to save up around $16,000 now.
I'm sitting on the cash, looking at CCL, WOW and of course, still RYM.
ENP-Ahh right, thanks for the clarification. Also regards to the investing in silver/commodities. I'm not interested in them really buy what assets are good in an uncertain/recession type economy?
To bad you didn't listen to me Silver has moved 50%+ since I gave you my option -like I said one of the safest buys at this time of money debasing /bankrupting nations many have listen to me with massive gains in both shares/bullion like what you wanted to invest per day in gains over a 510 day period
So have about 16k to play with, saving another 8-9k per year. My investment timeframe is around 5-6 years until I'd like to settle on a first home.
Was considering either dollar cost averaging into blue chip ASX companies or just keeping it in term deposits.
Thoughts?
darksentinel
26-01-2011, 06:06 PM
So have about 16k to play with, saving another 8-9k per year. My investment timeframe is around 5-6 years until I'd like to settle on a first home.
Was considering either dollar cost averaging into blue chip ASX companies or just keeping it in term deposits.
Thoughts?
What's your timeframe like, and how much time can you devote to investing, research etc? Sorry, I've only read parts of this thread.
It is my belief that currently, and for the next months at least the market will well-outperform bank deposits. If you are careful about exiting when stocks start trending down, you should be able to continue beating bank deposits, but this can require some time investment on your part. If you don't want to spend too much time managing a portfolio, pick some relatively stable, large companies in a long-term uptrend, time your entrypoint, and keep an eye out for important news, and changes on e.g. Phaedrus' MSI charts, so you can get out if things turn sour. RYM, for example, is a reasonable choice that (I think) meets these criteria, although right now might not be the best time.
That last strategy is something I am starting to follow, especially during times when I am busy and can't keep a close eye on the market. It's worked ok for me so far, certainly better than my initial "this stock looks interesting" or "this stock has to go up soon" strategy (for lack of a better term).
That being said, I'd be the first to say that I'm not qualified or sufficiently experienced to give anyone guidance on investments, but perhaps these points will provide a useful basis on which to build your own strategy.
shasta
26-01-2011, 06:32 PM
So have about 16k to play with, saving another 8-9k per year. My investment timeframe is around 5-6 years until I'd like to settle on a first home.
Was considering either dollar cost averaging into blue chip ASX companies or just keeping it in term deposits.
Thoughts?
I go along with Percy's suggestion, buy back your RYM shares & reinvest the dividends into more RYM shares & let them accumulate for 5 years.
As you free up more capital buy more on a regular basis, ie dollar cost averaging
Last time you asked this question wanting a long time frame, you got impatient & sold a few months later!
You need to have the discipline to stick with an investment & not keep changing your mind!
With the likelihood of continued growth in the retirement sector & along with the dividend you are likely to get a better return than the bank
As an example, assuming the RYM SP is $2.00 & stays there for 5 years & with no dividends:
Say you bought 8,000 RYM @ $2.00, spending all of the $16k, that you do not require for another 5 years, ie it is surplus & for investment only
If you add say $8000 each year, perhaps buying 1,000 RYM shares @ $2.00 every 3 months, after year 1 you will have 12,000 RYM @ $2.00 worth $24k
If you continue to add 1,000 RYM shares every 3 months, after year 2 you will have 16,000 RYM shares worth $32k, year 3 20,000 worth 40k, year 4 24,000 worth $48k, & year 5 28,000 worth $56k
Whack this into a spreadsheet & assume say, a 3% dividend each year, & work out the extra shares & see how the power of compound works.
Add in say an average 5% SP growth each year, & see how the balance goes up...
Play with the figures & see what you could have in 5 years time, if you stick with it.
You will be surprised at how much you could possibly have in 5 years time, certainly a substantial amount towards your 1st house!
NB, There may be better stocks to do this style of passive investing in, but im trying to highlight a low maintenance way of accumulating a deposit for a house, without the need for constant watching the share price every day, or having to do anything other than stick to a regular savings scheme!
Yea, just want an easy to follow sort of strategy that doesn't require much thinking, emotion, etc.
How often would you then plan to invest if you were dollar cost averaging if I had say 8k per year. Would you put in 4k every 6 months? Or 2k every 3 months.
I'd dollar cost average into perhaps 1-2 companies.
shasta
26-01-2011, 09:40 PM
Yea, just want an easy to follow sort of strategy that doesn't require much thinking, emotion, etc.
How often would you then plan to invest if you were dollar cost averaging if I had say 8k per year. Would you put in 4k every 6 months? Or 2k every 3 months.
I'd dollar cost average into perhaps 1-2 companies.
Doesn't matter how much or how often, its the discipline to save a set amount each pay, & make sure it comes out as an automatic payment that you dont touch.
May as well avoid FX issues with Australia & just stick to well run large caps on the NZX, ie the likes of RYM, & IFT, maybe FBU - where the dividend paid is sustainable, has room for growth & the business generates large cashflows & provides a decent return on equity
Well..
Here is a 8-9 month update if anyone is interested. I made the dumb decision to sell out of RYM at $2.17.
I was young, stupid and based my decisions on emotion. If I had kept the shares, today they would be up around 15% including dividends.
I'm basically back at square one. My savings are in term depsoits earning diddly squat 5% but I've managed to save up around $16,000 now.
I'm sitting on the cash, looking at CCL, WOW and of course, still RYM.
No you are not back at square one....You have learn't a lot in 9 months. To be consistently successful you have to tailor-make your investment strategies based around your personal strengths and weaknesses. Your post tells us you have started to identify some of your weaknesses...I would not class being young a weakness though...
You haven't identified your strengths ...being young and still having all your money after 9 months by being conservative and to slowly accumulate does show an emerging personal profile.
Keep up the good work ..grasshopper
h2so4
26-01-2011, 10:10 PM
I would put enough in so my brokerage cost wasn't more than 1% of the amount invested.
I will second Hoops views. Good advice.
Ok, so I'd invest $4k every 6 months.
Would it be better to do this with 1 company, or 2? RYM and WOW I'm considering. If I did 2 companies, I'd theoretically only invest into that company once a year, rather than twice.
Decide at each investment if it is a good time to buy that share, or the other share.
Dollar cost averaging is a bit too automatic for my liking. Why buy a share when it is expense and why not double down when it looks cheap.
Indy kiwi
04-03-2011, 07:19 AM
ENP - your story sounds familiar. Soon after my hort degree at Massey (more years ago than I care to remember) I had a fair amount of disposable income and started buying the hot shares of the day - Chase Corp, Equiticorp, etc. It was a fun ride but ended up pretty much on my butt. I hope you have as much fun but with a better outcome.
Being a little older, and perhaps marginally wiser, now I like dollar cost averaging. I have a few individual NZ stocks I still own and like to follow, but mostly my money is in diversified mutual funds. Maybe I'm old and boring but I sleep very well at night.
trackers
04-03-2011, 09:25 AM
Ok, so I'd invest $4k every 6 months.
Would it be better to do this with 1 company, or 2? RYM and WOW I'm considering. If I did 2 companies, I'd theoretically only invest into that company once a year, rather than twice.
Diversifying lowers risk... It also tends to lower return (imo) - So, depends on your conviction and risk profile really.
When I started out I dumped 100% into one share at a time and that worked well for me (you keep 100% focus on one share and you avoid brokerage which can make big dents in small amounts of capital).... But your fortunes are 100% reliant on the affairs of one business (and weird things do happen out of the blue, I know - I live in chch!)
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