KFL - Kingfish. What are your feelings for this?

[krusty]

Is this a winner? Some of the stats look okay.

[Contrarian]

Gidday
IMHO the Aussie version BRM is a much better deal.

[Catalyst]

I'm not sure what stats you are referring to Krusty, but KFL raised money in 2004 at $1 and seven years later they are trading at 99c. Yes, you would have received dividends during that time and some free options but this is hardly good stats.

KFL's dividend policy is to distribute 2% of avg NAV per quarter so it is best regarded as a high yielding stock (8%+ pa net) IMHO.

[Arbitrage]

KFL has never really performed over the years. I went to an AGM a couple of years ago and was surprised how those shareholders present worshipped the Board, particularly Carmel Fisher, despite their non performance and that it was trading at a significant discount to its asset holdings. The audience seemed to be mainly people who saw it as a good alternative investment to a share fund. The share price jumped that afternoon and really hasn't done much since.
Go to their website and sort through their portfolio, pick out the good stocks and go and buy them yourself. At least KFL won't clip the ticket along the way.

[krusty]

Thought the yield was better than a poke in the eye. Some of their assets seem to be winners.

[troyvdh]

,,,,,mmmmmm....buy RYM....I have some but not as many as i should..,.,.,.

[Arbitrage]

Exactly my point. Krusty, you are better to invest directly rather than through KFL.

[JemT]

I think BRM is a better deal than KFL, primarily because BRM gives you access to small cap ASX shares that you might not otherwise be able to economically buy (illiquidity/brokerage costs). KFL is really just a few main NZX 50 stocks. Also BRM is trading at about a 20% discount to NAV if I recall. The payout of 2% of NAV per quarter is not a bad return either.

[Arbitrage]

Congratulations to the Directors at KFL. We are back to par.

[777]

The warrants then are in the money.

[Joshuatree]

Has Kingfish been as bad as barra and marlin?

[p2r]

Yes I would say so. Rakon & Pumpkin patch would have not done them well. No capital growth for a couple of years but might be looking up just currently

[p2r]

I mean not been as bad, better.

[Pete]

They have done quite well recently. The top 3 holding RYM, MFT and FRE are all close to multi year highs, as well as a few others doing well (POT, TME and SUM).
The NAV has steadily increased even after paying out a dividend of 2% per quarter, and the shares are still a 10% discount to NAV...

[troyvdh]

Good point pete...that 8% something div....is that fully imputed.....I have to say after 30 plus years in res rentals...im tired....cheers

[Joshuatree]

Thanks guys ,an entry doesnt look bad at this point in time and yes , with an almost guaranteed div one could entertain the thought of playing the fish for a while ,maybe with a barbless hook for a quick getaway when/if necessary. Then trying to read the Macro, how the hell is the rest of the year going to play out.

[troyvdh]

...oh man Josh... you are impressive....well done...,.,.cheers......thankyou ...troy

[Joshuatree]

sweet dreams zzzzz

[blah]

interesting to see KFL in the past couple of weeks rising crazy fast. At the moment is $1.31: higher than the NAV as of last week at 1.3015.

Seems a bit fishy (mind the pun) to me since KFL and other ETF's usually trade at a discount to their NAV. Does anyone have an idea of what is happening?

[Billy Boy]

MLN up, KFL up, BRM sideways. all run by Baalance's top girl friend. ;)
.
Maybe we are not going to see the "BIG MAY DIP" and the market(s)
are reflecting this. My son is telling me to keep cash in hand as the
markets have to correct. !! WELL ???
bb:)

[macduffy]

It's not unknown for managed funds to trade at a premium on occasion but that is more normally associated with out-performance by the manager and/or weight of money pushing the price up. I suspect it's more the latter in this case - I'd be cashing up and looking elsewhere, if I was holding KFL.

:cool:

[Sideshow Bob]

Closed back at $1.28 today, but over 230,000k traded which is large for KFL - only about 12 days over 200k in the last year. Goes ex-div in a couple of weeks, and surely this couldn't be a driver, as quarterly and think about 2.2cps.

I've had some money parked in there as a default, but have been thinking about exiting. So at least got some gain out of Ryman, as didn't buy them a couple of years ago, two years, or last year.........

[Anna Naum]

Interesting to note the company continues to buy back shares. In the past they have stated that they would only do this if the shares traded at a discount to NAV.

[777]

Interesting to note the company continues to buy back shares. In the past they have stated that they would only do this if the shares traded at a discount to NAV.

Last buyback in KFL was 11/4/12. Over a year ago

[bonne vie]

KFL pays out a quarterly dividend based on asset value - this was commenced I think 06/2009. Is a possible explanation of the current buy back is that they are needing to build up the shares held by the company for the June dividend for those in the dividend re investment scheme. If they don't buy back then they would need to liquidate assets that are in a rising market. Noting Buy back in BRM has been very regular.
Disc - held since 2004 float

[Anna Naum]

Look at that, MLN and BRM buybacks, sorry thy usually do everything in 3's, same day and time for all three board meetings, same manager, usually same buybacks. Thanks 777 for putting me right.

[bonne vie]

KFL pays out a quarterly dividend based on asset value - this was commenced I think 06/2009. Is a possible explanation of the current buy back is that they are needing to build up the shares held by the company for the June dividend for those in the dividend re investment scheme. If they don't buy back then they would need to liquidate assets that are in a rising market. Noting Buy back in BRM has been very regular.
Disc - held since 2004 float

Yes you are right it makes sense to take some profit to disburse, but they still need the shares available in their Treasury Stock for the dividend reinvestment scheme. Noting they also paid out a large management fee in shares recently too though I think this was reserved for). Had a quick look at interim 30/9/12 financials to see the value held as Treasury Stock but this has confused me more - as it appears to show they are increasing the number of shares under the reinvestment scheme "New shares issued under shareholder reinvestment scheme" $1,960,000. Perhaps someone can provide a simple explanation re treasury stock/reinvestment dividend shares.

[blah]

I just sold out at $1.32 - a price above NAV simply cannot be justified. I am not all too familiar with the machanics of share buy-backs, but I wouldn't think it would make sense to buy back at a price extremely close to or above the NAV. My understanding is that buy-backs occur when the share price is unjustifiably low to stop the price from going any lower.

I will keep an eye on this and might buy back if the price falls back down to a level I am comfortable with (90c!! I'm dreaming)

[voltage]

yes also trying to sell out at 1.32.

[macduffy]

Perhaps someone can provide a simple explanation re treasury stock/reinvestment dividend shares.

Hi bonne vie.

Don't take this necessarily as "gospel" but my understanding is that a company may issue shares in lieu of cash dividends provided it has established a dividend reinvestment plan and doesn't exceed any statutory or NZX limits on issuing shares without specific shareholder approval. It may be different for investment companies such as Kingfish where the dilution effect might be more readily apparent but in principle, any issue of equity is dilutionary - is that a word?

The point of holding Treasury stock is to avoid the hassle of cancelling shares and then having to (possibly) seek shareholder approval in the event of needing to re-create them.

Clarification and/or correction of the above would be welcome.

:)

[bonne vie]

Hi bonne vie.

Don't take this necessarily as "gospel" but my understanding is that a company may issue shares in lieu of cash dividends provided it has established a dividend reinvestment plan and doesn't exceed any statutory or NZX limits on issuing shares without specific shareholder approval. It may be different for investment companies such as Kingfish where the dilution effect might be more readily apparent but in principle, any issue of equity is dilutionary - is that a word?

The point of holding Treasury stock is to avoid the hassle of cancelling shares and then having to (possibly) seek shareholder approval in the event of needing to re-create them.
Clarification and/or correction of the above would be welcome.

:)
Thanks Macduffey for the info re the Treasury Stock, I am still however unclear how KFL is managing its level of treasury stock for its reinvestment scheme. When I have more time next week I will see if I can find out either from KFL or its financials. One thing I have noted today from its fact sheet in the Investors tab on KFL's site is it appears the current buy back at higher than NAV is abnormal as mentioned by an earlier poster.

[777]

There is no current buy back. See my post #26.

[bonne vie]

There is no current buy back. See my post #26.
Sorry 777 I misread your posting to read that the last one was 11/4//12 before the current buy backs referred to by Anna Naum. Of course looking at the company announcements there have not been any recent buybacks - unlike BRM

[777]

NTA came out at $1.31 today.

Helped along by RYM I would say.

[voltage]

they sell capital to fund the divi. Sold half my holding today.

[777]

They distribute dividends which are sourced from dividends received and capital profit realised from investments. Just the same as any other funds. Otherwise how would you get any benefit from capital gain other than the fund continuing to grow and having to sell out to achieve some. In Australia it is a requirement for funds to distribute all profit.

I sold 50% of my holding yesterday at $1.31 but will buy back in the next day or two.

[blah]

I've sold all my KFL a couple of days ago, and I'm keen to enter again, but the share price will need to fall quite a bit before I deem it worthwhile.

Regarding concerns that they sell their capital to distribute as dividends - what exactly is wrong with that? I see no problem at all

[Sideshow Bob]

Recently issued one for four warrants, currently trading at 10c, exercise date 6th of November 2015.

They say:

The exercise price will be $1.29 less any dividends declared during the period up to the exercise date. The final exercise price will be calculated before the exercise date, and the company will advise warrant holders at least 20 days before the exercise date.


So if they pay 8cps divies before then, then the price will be $1.21? But could exercise now at $1.29?

They also say:

The Board believes the issue of new warrants will put Kingfish in a better position to grow, improve liquidity, operate efficiently and pursue other capital structure initiatives as appropriate.

Previous issues of warrants have been well received by Kingfish shareholders, and the new warrant issue provides an opportunity for our loyal shareholders to further participate in Kingfish’s growth.


And in an earlier announcement:


Kingfish Limited announces continuation of Share Buyback Programme

In accordance with Listing Rule 7.6.2, Kingfish announces its intention to continue its share buyback programme of Kingfish ordinary shares in compliance with section 65 of the Companies Act 1993.

The buyback programme is for the period of 1 November 2014 through to 31 October 2015 and will be for up to a maximum of 6,000,000 ordinary shares.


So bit of a share merry-go-round?

Cue a Balance-d Barramundi type discussion......

[Balance]

:D :D :D

ARE u READY to RUMBLE?

[Joshuatree]

Always ready to rumble:) in the perfumed garden with pearls and curls

[Balance]

Why anyone bother with Fisher Funds has been a mystery (given the track record) but it simply reinforces the old adage that 'fools are born every minute' and there are some who will not hesitate to take advantage of them?

Simply put your money into a quality stock like AIA and let the directors and management work really hard for you.

Since 2004 (10 years), KFL has put on 36% plus dividends.

In that time, AIA has put on 145% plus dividends.

Guess how much management & performance fees have been extracted out of KFL over that period?

Heads, they win management fees plus performance fees; tails they win management fees - and still sip $1,000 a bottle champagne on a balcony overlooking the Eiffel Tower. :D

[McGyro]

Balance, as one of your "fools". I hold shares in KFL.
My reason is to provide a ready source of liquidity with a return better than the banks. I sell them to buy other stocks when a buying opportunity comes along.
The reasonable yield, quarterly dividends and relatively stable (to NZX) price, means that to me there appears less chance of having to wait for a selling opportunity than would be the case with a more one dimensional stock like AIA.
Given your opinion and my holding reasons, what would you recommend as better stocks to meet my purposes?

[Sideshow Bob]

I'm not arguing with Balance re fees etc. But unlike Barramundi it is trading at NTA, and I've returned 72%+ over <3 years. Sure there are probably better performing shares but bought as a proxy for the market, has a DRP and better returning than LPTs or term deposits. Not a long term hold or something to fall in love with, but done ok (without knowing what the market as a whole has done during this time).

[Balance]

Balance, as one of your "fools". I hold shares in KFL.
My reason is to provide a ready source of liquidity with a return better than the banks. I sell them to buy other stocks when a buying opportunity comes along.
The reasonable yield, quarterly dividends and relatively stable (to NZX) price, means that to me there appears less chance of having to wait for a selling opportunity than would be the case with a more one dimensional stock like AIA.
Given your opinion and my holding reasons, what would you recommend as better stocks to meet my purposes?

Words fail me!

AIA one dimensional?

It is a play on the air travel/tourism/retail sectors, and a real estate play as well! You are getting fantastic exposures to several growth sectors - with underlying monopolistic earnings!

If I want the type of exposure you are looking for, I would invest in the LPTs - good liquidity, tax free dividends and DRP.

[Beagle]

GMT or HNZ are great high divvy yield stocks with good liquidity, very low beta, (volatility), and make a great place to park money while you look for other better opportunities, if you can find better ones :)

[Billy Boy]

GMT or HNZ are great high divvy yield stocks with good liquidity, very low beta, (volatility), and make a great place to park money while you look for other better opportunities, if you can find better ones :)
Yes Roger..
I am a long standing holder of LPT"s and they have served me very well indeed.
IMO.. Gmt and Arg are the best buy a present (LPT's that is)
I have been using the divvy's to buy into MLN mainly.
MLN is buying up in the States big time and of course things are moving along there.
BRM... is worth watching. Aussie will climb back in time so BRM could have a nice cap gain.
and if you are in at about 64 (or so) cents the divvy could be great. But will take time.
eg I bought Arg a ways back when they were sub 70c. I dont wanna hard to sell now.
KFL... are trading around NTA now so could be a better buy about june 2015.
cheers BB
Dont 4get they are all PIE's

[McGyro]

In light of comments that AIA and some of the property shares may be a better investment for my short term liquidity purposes, I tried a little research. AIA, GMT and HNZ all have higher beta values and lower yields than KFL (according to Financial Times). A little wary of property at present given the recent rapid Auckland price rises. I dont have time to learn about LPTs at present.
So KFL still looks to me the best bet for my purposes.
Given the exasperation of Balance it would appear there is something fairly major that I haven't taken into account. What is it?

[Balance]

In light of comments that AIA and some of the property shares may be a better investment for my short term liquidity purposes, I tried a little research. AIA, GMT and HNZ all have higher beta values and lower yields than KFL (according to Financial Times). A little wary of property at present given the recent rapid Auckland price rises. I dont have time to learn about LPTs at present.
So KFL still looks to me the best bet for my purposes.
Given the exasperation of Balance it would appear there is something fairly major that I haven't taken into account. What is it?

Stick with KFL - Carmel Fisher loves investors like you. :D

[Billy Boy]

IMO..............
KFL are about close too or a little above fair value at the moment (138 cents) but even then they are coming in at about 7.69% PIE Div. They will do a bit a surge as they are coming to their QTR payment and will then drop back somewhat. whether you buy now and collect the div or wait a bit for a cheaper price down the track is up to you.
There Div is based on a averaged NTA over a period (you can read in their splurb) and the NZX is moving downhill at the moment ( some say shares have peaked ).
If you feel NZ shares are in slow decline then hold for a bit, else get in now. Do your own sums and research.
Quote "Given the exasperation of Balance it would appear there is something fairly major that I haven't taken into account. What is it" unquote.
........BALANCE.........
cheers BB:)

[777]

I
Given the exasperation of Balance it would appear there is something fairly major that I haven't taken into account. What is it?

There is no evidence on this board that Balance actually owns any shares. I assume this is because no one is up to his standard to run any NZ company. In the mean time we keep making money.

[Balance]

There is no evidence on this board that Balance actually owns any shares. I assume this is because no one is up to his standard to run any NZ company. In the mean time we keep making money.

Try THL.

Try AIA.

Try DIL.

Try HNZ.

I am happy.

:D

:D

:D

[pierre]

Try THL.

Try AIA.

Try DIL.

Try HNZ.

I am happy.

:D

:D

:D

What! No NZO, no PEB - unbelievable!

[mikeybycrikey]

IMO..............
KFL are about close too or a little above fair value at the moment (138 cents) but even then they are coming in at about 7.69% PIE Div. They will do a bit a surge as they are coming to their QTR payment and will then drop back somewhat. whether you buy now and collect the div or wait a bit for a cheaper price down the track is up to you.
There Div is based on a averaged NTA over a period (you can read in their splurb) and the NZX is moving downhill at the moment ( some say shares have peaked ).
If you feel NZ shares are in slow decline then hold for a bit, else get in now. Do your own sums and research.
Quote "Given the exasperation of Balance it would appear there is something fairly major that I haven't taken into account. What is it" unquote.
........BALANCE.........
cheers BB:)

I owned some KFL until a couple of months ago. They were a fairly good investment for the time that I owned them. I think the beef that some people have with KFL and some of the other Fisher ETFs is that they do take a fair chunk of money as their management fees. This is an explanation of why the share price is often a couple of cents under the NAV.


I do find it interesting that they have a reasonably high dividend policy (currently 2% of NAV per quarter). Means there are regular returns.

Being a fund made up of a number of different companies, they are never going to have the extreme highs of owning XRO or RYM or PEB or DIL or something else. But they also aren't going to have the extreme lows of XRO or PEB or DIL or something else. Less volatility and less get-rich-quick potential but probably a reasonably decent and reliable return over the long run.

[kura]

While Im not a great fan of investment companies, liked the look of these warrants (options)
- Issue price $1.32 (reduced by any dividend payments )
- Price of head shares (KFL) $1.40
- Price of warrants $0.06 (ie already in the money )
- NTA of KFL is $1.43, so trading price seems about right.

You could say it's a lot of work for a lousy 2 cents, but I took a punt, as I liked the leverage aspect.

[Not too Flash]

Last warrant issue was at 1.29 less dividends of .11 - payment due of 1.18 -in November 2015. Shares now $1.40
The payment due on these current warrants is likely to be low 1.20's based on previous dividends

Possibly be more than a lousy 2c

Good Luck - although there is often a lot of negativity about these Fisher Funds by many - I am smiling :D

[kura]

It was more the leverage aspect that appealed to me, if some GFC strikes, sure I can write off my 6 cents. If NZX continues to hum along nicely then I keep all the upside of a diversified portfolio.

Holding this kind of option, makes me feel a lot better about sitting on cash, rather than being fully invested.

[tango]

I like KFL shares. The returns are better than interest rates, they're easy to sell and you get PIE status so it doesn't need to be included in your tax return PLUS you often get a portion of income that is excluded from tax returns.

Having said that I need to sell some to settle a house.
I'm a bit confused. I saw
8 June ex dividend
9 June record date

So if I sell some shares today do I get the June dividend? Or do I wait until tomorrow after the record date has passed???
Sorry, rookie question I know :)

[Balance]

I like KFL shares. The returns are better than interest rates, they're easy to sell and you get PIE status so it doesn't need to be included in your tax return PLUS you often get a portion of income that is excluded from tax returns.

Having said that I need to sell some to settle a house.
I'm a bit confused. I saw
8 June ex dividend
9 June record date

So if I sell some shares today do I get the June dividend? Or do I wait until tomorrow after the record date has passed???
Sorry, rookie question I know :)

Scary - typical of a Fisher Fund type investor!

[percy]

I like KFL shares. The returns are better than interest rates, they're easy to sell and you get PIE status so it doesn't need to be included in your tax return PLUS you often get a portion of income that is excluded from tax returns.

Having said that I need to sell some to settle a house.
I'm a bit confused. I saw
8 June ex dividend
9 June record date

So if I sell some shares today do I get the June dividend? Or do I wait until tomorrow after the record date has passed???
Sorry, rookie question I know :)

ANZ Securities are showing them XD [ex dividend] so you can sell today and still receive the dividend.
Please note Balance has given you good advice.

[tango]

Scary - typical of a Fisher Fund type investor!

Great that you're not judgemental!

[tango]

ANZ Securities are showing them XD [ex dividend] so you can sell today and still receive the dividend.
Please note Balance has given you good advice.

Thanks!
I didn't notice any advice from Balance? Just a scathing judgement of me.

[bull....]

Scary - typical of a Fisher Fund type investor!

lol , who uses a bank bill index as a gauge of performance for equities?

[kura]

Scary - typical of a Fisher Fund type investor!

Disagree with your attitude Balance, I see managed funds as a good entry point for a new investor, who may not feel comfortable enough to own shares directly.

[King1212]

Disagree with your attitude Balance, I see managed funds as a good entry point for a new investor, who may not feel comfortable enough to own shares directly.

agreed..not everyone is able to see their bought individual shares down 30-50% without getting nervous and sleepless every day.....

[Balance]

Disagree with your attitude Balance, I see managed funds as a good entry point for a new investor, who may not feel comfortable enough to own shares directly.

There are managed funds and then, there are poorly managed funds.

There are unlisted managed funds and then, there are listed managed funds.

KFL has underperformed the sharemarket hugely for a number of reasons.

How many 'new' investors do their homework before using a managed fund to gain exposure to equities?

As a commentator famously stated 'many new investors do more due diligence choosing a new fridge or car, than they do when choosing financial planners and fund managers'.

[Balance]

agreed..not everyone is able to see their bought individual shares down 30-50% without getting nervous and sleepless every day.....

And KFL, like shares, has on occasions fell over 60% from its heights.

Its' sister/brother listed funds, smelly BRM and speared MLN, are still down 37% and 20% for those who bought in initially to gain exposure to overseas markets!

The markets which BRM and MLN are invested in have both performed well beyond them.

Wonder why :D

[Joshuatree]

ANZ Securities are showing them XD [ex dividend] so you can sell today and still receive the dividend.
Please note Balance has given you good advice.

Ive always believed that when the XD notice is announced it means just that , its is ex dividend and that you would need to have bought the day before to get (cum) the div.

[percy]

Ive always believed that when the XD notice is announced it means just that , its is ex dividend and that you would need to have bought the day before to get (cum) the div.

JT.Reread what I have written.Big difference between SELLING and buying.
We are both therefore correct.!

[kura]

There are managed funds and then, there are poorly managed funds.

There are unlisted managed funds and then, there are listed managed funds.

KFL has underperformed the sharemarket hugely for a number of reasons.

How many 'new' investors do their homework before using a managed fund to gain exposure to equities?

As a commentator famously stated 'many new investors do more due diligence choosing a new fridge or car, than they do when choosing financial planners and fund managers'.

It is fine to denigrate the fund manager (an expensive one at 1.25% ) but there was no need to belittle the guy for asking a newbie type question. We were all newbies once upon a time.

[Balance]

It is fine to denigrate the fund manager (an expensive one at 1.25% ) but there was no need to belittle the guy for asking a newbie type question. We were all newbies once upon a time.

You are right. My apologies to the newbie.

[Ohdoyle]

Hi team, I see alot of negativity about this on here.

Interested to hear from holders who like this one. My mother has some money to invest for retirement income.

I like the look of the KFL divedends quarterly as a good way to manage income.

I've run the numbers and to my calculations its outperformed the nzx by about 1 percent pa after fees. While not outstanding that's ok performance I think.

I'm confused as to why they would use 90 day bill rate as their benchmark. Clearly it should be nzx.

However few things I dont like at the moment. Why is it trading at a significant premium ? I dont like paying more for shares I can just buy myself.

If I wait is the premium situation likely to change ?

I'm also a bit concerned that 50 percent of the portfolio is in just 3 stocks. Not very diversified imo.

Is there any other closed fund products people use that they consider superior?

I generally favour nz or australian shares. Interested to know others thoughts.

[Sideshow Bob]

Hi team, I see alot of negativity about this on here.

Interested to hear from holders who like this one. My mother has some money to invest for retirement income.

I like the look of the KFL divedends quarterly as a good way to manage income.

I've run the numbers and to my calculations its outperformed the nzx by about 1 percent pa after fees. While not outstanding that's ok performance I think.

I'm confused as to why they would use 90 day bill rate as their benchmark. Clearly it should be nzx.

However few things I dont like at the moment. Why is it trading at a significant premium ? I dont like paying more for shares I can just buy myself.

If I wait is the premium situation likely to change ?

I'm also a bit concerned that 50 percent of the portfolio is in just 3 stocks. Not very diversified imo.

Is there any other closed fund products people use that they consider superior?

I generally favour nz or australian shares. Interested to know others thoughts.

There is a much more recent thread. :)

KFL - discount to diluted NAV (sharetrader.co.nz) (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?3048-KFL-discount-to-diluted-NAV&highlight=KFL)

[justakiwi]

KFL was my first purchase back in 2016 and it has served me very well. I have taken advantage of warrants issues and DRP to grow my small holding, and my annual total return has been in the vicinity of 24%. I have never bought any additional shares on market and have no plans to do so. I just sit on it and let it go it's thing and I have not been disappointed.

[alokdhir]

Being a holder in all Fisher listed funds since 2010 ...I can say KFL has done the best out of the lot and it has done very well for me . I also take DRP and sell on market for my regular retired income requirements .

Since last Nov they all have gone at substantial premium to market ...Highest being BRM and lowest for KFL ...it seems market is trying to price them based on 6-7% dividend yield instead of NAV based .

Doesn't look like premium will go away soon as it suits regular income retirees as well as high income earners on 39% incremental tax rate . Being a listed PIE there dividends are taxed at 28% final ...as well no need include there income in IR3 if it suits individual investor . So they have very distinct tax advantages over direct investments for some .

Overall KFL is very well managed with exceptional track record ...fully recommend as a very satisfied investor since 2010

[Rawz]

I just can't get over that premium..

Remember when Marlin first listed at a $1. Dropped to $0.70 over the following months if I recall correctly. Now that is a discount!!

[alokdhir]

I just can't get over that premium..

Remember when Marlin first listed at a $1. Dropped to $0.70 over the following months if I recall correctly. Now that is a discount!!

Many things have changed since then buddy ...I also know from experience that KFL going to almost 15-19% discount to NAV before every warrant exercise date and then recover to 2-3 % discount in next 3-4 months ...small discount used to be the normal .

Now with bank rates as low as 1.5% for 5 years and tax rates as high as 39% ...KFL started making much better sense to many many new investors looking for regular retired income as well as most efficient tax advantage ...its just buy and forget ...every 3 months dividend in your account !!

This time at lowest point it was just few cents over NAV before warrant exercise date which showed great demand for it ...now in one month time after new KFL got allotted its at 18 cents premium ...almost 10% ...!!!!

[mfd]

It is worth remembering that the dividend yield cannot be compared directly to other funds or companies, as it is primarily generated by the fund managers selling shares on your behalf. Most of the dividend is a return of capital rather than cash spat out by your investments, and you could recreate similar with any other holding simply by regular selling.

There is an argument that the regular return makes things simpler, but this is somewhat counteracted by the merry-go-round of warrants, DRPs and dividends which is far from simple.

To my mind, unless you think the managers will outperform significantly and make up for the high fees, I would just buy a cheap ETF and sell when I want as needed.

[alokdhir]

As I have both KFL and NZG ( NZX50 index with only 0.2% charges ETF ) ....I have experienced that recently KFL has outperformed NZG significantly partly due to excellent stock selection and weightage and SP premium over NAV due to reasons mentioned above .

Otherwise over last 5 years KFL outperforms Index by 2-3 % PA .

Also clarity of KFL dividends for tax purposes and its convenience also contributes to its appeal ...eg what a fund manager is allowed under tax laws is not allowed to individual investor ...so his return of capital gains is tax free but individual investor's can be grey area ....

[Norwest]

I'm also a bit concerned that 50 percent of the portfolio is in just 3 stocks. Not very diversified imo.

I would rather a fund manager buy high conviction, cream of the crop stocks for their portfolio. That 50% you mention - MFT, IFT and FPH - these are blue chip stocks that have performed extremely well. It should also be noted that IFT is well diversified in its own right.

The idea of excessive diversification is madness. Wide diversification, which necessarily includes investment in mediocre businesses, only guarantees ordinary results.

[Ohdoyle]

There is a much more recent thread. :)

KFL - discount to diluted NAV (sharetrader.co.nz) (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?3048-KFL-discount-to-diluted-NAV&highlight=KFL)

Thanks,missed this one.

[bull....]

was reading an announcement from the company other day

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/392512

had to laugh that they measure there performance on the 90 day bank bill rate lol i thought stock investors get measured against a stock index.