HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[couta1]

Timeline

HNZ in results presentation "Key drivers of growth are GDP and employment"

FNZC this week "30% chance if recession" ....leading to higher unemployment

HNZ next year maybe "poorer economic conditions than expected meant we did not meet growth expectations"
Gee winner you sure know how to dampen percys party now don't ya,were you a spoilt child by any chance?

[winner69]

Time line.
11th May .......Major shareholder Greg Tomlinson increases his holding at $1.30.
Late July.........Brokers Craigs and FNZC research confirms HNZ are producing the goods.
30th July.........HNZ's update guidance is positive.
18th August....HNZ result.Record profit,low dairying exposure confirmed.Posible share buy back because of excess capital,positive,as it will increase ROE,EPS and most probably the dividend..Increased increased dividend announced.A fantastic result and outlook.
18th August...I buy more shares at $1.15.
24th August..CEO Jeff Greenslade buys shares at $1.15.
24th August ..Head of banking,Chris Flood buys shares at $1.16.
As per always, we must do our own research, and make up our own minds whether we buy,sell or hold any company's shares.

All good stuff. Nothing wrong with HNZ fundamentals.

But over the next month or so what happens to the shareprice has nothing to do with fundamentals, it all about what risk adverse nervous punters will pay (assuming anybody wants to buy anyway)

NTA is 90 cents ...maybe that the bottom if a slide is to happen.

(Note. MAC got banned when on the PEB thread he keep repeatedly keep posting lists of good things. I would hate it if you got banned for doing the same thing)

[percy]

Gee winner you sure know how to dampen percys party now don't ya,were you a spoilt child by any chance?

All invited guests are enjoying my party.
Been in full swing for 3 or 4 years,and it is getting better each year ...lol.

[winner69]

Gee winner you sure know how to dampen percys party now don't ya,were you a spoilt child by any chance?

Had a really tough upbringing mate ....but got over that

But if we want to be nice to percy you delete your reply and I delete the original most.

Aren't we meant to forward looking and consider upsides and downsides ..like a balanced view.

[winner69]

All invited guests are enjoying my party.
Been in full swing for 3 or 4 years,and it is getting better each year ...lol.

Wakes can be fun as well

[couta1]

Had a really tough upbringing mate ....but got over that

But if we want to be nice to percy you delete your reply and I delete the original most.

Aren't we meant to forward looking and consider upsides and downsides ..like a balanced view. I just can't work out where you stand on this stock, one minute hot then next cold, I'm feeling confused?

[winner69]

I just can't work out where you stand on this stock, one minute hot then next cold, I'm feeling confused?

Great company, not the time to be holding at the moment for somebody who is not a long term buy and hold type. I'd love to hold for years if the price was steadily rising.

That's where I am at the moment.

Percy a good guy. We have had a lot of good banter over the years but he does seem to bring out the bad in me sometimes.

[Beagle]

I thought it was quite interesting yesterday that notwithstanding the big bounce in the Aussie banking shares and for most of the day the Dow futures pointing 200-400 points upwards, HNZ opened significantly weaker and stayed down all day while many other NZX stocks recovered. Make of that what you will...

[Joshuatree]

;)Just need to remember couta at any point in time some of us have our investing hats on ,some trading hats on and in winners case all hats on.

[nextbigthing]

All good stuff. Nothing wrong with HNZ fundamentals.

But over the next month or so what happens to the shareprice has nothing to do with fundamentals, it all about what risk adverse nervous punters will pay (assuming anybody wants to buy anyway)

NTA is 90 cents ...maybe that the bottom if a slide is to happen.


ANZ has an NTA of $16.32 and is currently priced at almost 2x that at $30.98

Using this same valuation metric of 2x NTA, HNZ is clearly worth almost $1.80

Just let me get my fill before you all start putting your bids in :D

[winner69]

;)Just need to remember couta at any point in time some of us have our investing hats on ,some trading hats on and in winners case all hats on.

We are all traders (of price)

I wouldn't call any on this forum investors / owners .....price is what drives our (trading) behaviour

Some trades are short term, other trades can last for years

Even Percy has his price he will sell Heartland if it comes to that.

[Joshuatree]

Traders pay tax investors don't. I have a small trading acc and a large investing acc.

[winner69]

Traders pay tax investors don't. I have a small trading acc and a large investing acc.

Semantics

We all behave like traders. (Not investors)

I assume you buy and sell (ie trade) what is in your investing account. Seem to be have been busy lately going from your recent posts.

Multi year trades are the best ones

[winner69]

;)Just need to remember couta at any point in time some of us have our investing hats on ,some trading hats on and in winners case all hats on.

Mr de Bono would say I have black and green hats, a great combination

[Joshuatree]

Semantics

We all behave like traders. (Not investors)

I assume you buy and sell (ie trade) what is in your investing account. Seem to be have been busy lately going from your recent posts.

Multi year trades are the best ones


Speak for yourself.Many are investors on here and herein lies the problem ; confusion re stock discussions with such varying strategies. maybe a day traders or a trading thread on Sharetrader would be useful and give more transparency.

[Beagle]

Great company, not the time to be holding at the moment for somebody who is not a long term buy and hold type. I'd love to hold for years if the price was steadily rising.

That's where I am at the moment.

Percy a good guy. We have had a lot of good banter over the years but he does seem to bring out the bad in me sometimes.

I can TOTALLY relate to what you're saying mate lol

[Beagle]

I thought it was quite interesting yesterday that notwithstanding the big bounce in the Aussie banking shares and for most of the day the Dow futures pointing 200-400 points upwards, HNZ opened significantly weaker and stayed down all day while many other NZX stocks recovered. Make of that what you will...

Ditto today....and the downtrend continues unabated. What a great party.:( China market rebounds 3% as at the time of NZX close and the ASX is up and yet HNZ down again... now to $1.07

[winner69]

ANZ has an NTA of $16.32 and is currently priced at almost 2x that at $30.98

Using this same valuation metric of 2x NTA, HNZ is clearly worth almost $1.80

Just let me get my fill before you all start putting your bids in :D

Jeff doesn't include ANZ in his peer group

But when he starts ramping the share price he uses the 1.9 NTA average of the peer group (smaller Aussie banks)

Hasn't done a god job with his ramping has he (sorry promoting) ...even analysts use a 1.2 figure

[Beagle]

Speaking of ANZ...its time to compare the really meaningful metric EPS At the current SP ANZ is on a 2015 PE of only 10.7 times
http://www.4-traders.com/AUSTRALIA-AND-NEW-ZEALAND-6492549/?type_recherche=rapide&mots=ANZ
Apply the same PE to HNZ based on their eps of 10 cps last year and what do you know...you get $1.07.

[winner69]

That 107 close is a new low in this 6 1/2 month downtrend. Downtrend remains in place.

Jt, That's said with my 'white hat' on

[trader_jackson]

HNZ should be stocked at Briscoes, along side Pacific Edge (that one's a discussion for another thread)... they can both be part of their 'famous' 50% off sales...

Heartland: Amazing results, solid growth opportunities, crazy dividend yield (shareholders likely to get 15c back in the next 400 days in dividends alone) and ... the stock goes down..?

Can someone please explain who continues to 'dump' heartland? really doesn't make sense to me...

[Joshuatree]

Its called the Macro effect tj.

[belted galloway]

Heartland: Amazing results, solid growth opportunities, crazy dividend yield (shareholders likely to get 15c back in the next 400 days in dividends alone) and ... the stock goes down..?

Can someone please explain who continues to 'dump' heartland? really doesn't make sense to me...

I completely agree. This is one of my favourite companies. Consistently increasing ROE, DPS and a great outlook.

Sadly the market is highly irrational at present, so I was happy to lock in profits and wait for things (the market) to turn around.

The chart looks absolutely terrible.

Hopefully things begin to turn around soon. Although in the contrary, as the price falls this stock just becomes more and more attractive.

[percy]

HNZ should be stocked at Briscoes, along side Pacific Edge (that one's a discussion for another thread)... they can both be part of their 'famous' 50% off sales...

Heartland: Amazing results, solid growth opportunities, crazy dividend yield (shareholders likely to get 15c back in the next 400 days in dividends alone) and ... the stock goes down..?

Can someone please explain who continues to 'dump' heartland? really doesn't make sense to me...

The major NZ fund managers hold their shares in NZ Central Securities Depository.
Since 31st July to 14th August there has been a reduction of 3,945,610 shares held by NZ Central Securities Depository.
There can be a number of reasons for this sell down.
1] A fund manager thinks he can invest his funds better elsewhere.
2] A fund manager may need the cash to fund withdrawls.
3] A fund manager may have lost their mandate, and the fund is now managed by a different fund management company, whose weighting in HNZ is already high enough.
Interestingly amongst the top 100 holders , was of the 22 tranactions 3 were selling down,while 19 were buying more.
We also know three insiders,Tomlinson,Greenslade and Flood have been buyers.

[Beagle]

HNZ should be stocked at Briscoes, along side Pacific Edge (that one's a discussion for another thread)... they can both be part of their 'famous' 50% off sales...

Heartland: Amazing results, solid growth opportunities, crazy dividend yield (shareholders likely to get 15c back in the next 400 days in dividends alone) and ... the stock goes down..?

Can someone please explain who continues to 'dump' heartland? really doesn't make sense to me...

Pretty clear some institutions have serious reservations about HNZ taking the stance that no extra provisioning is required in regard to their agri exposure. They doubled their provisioning for doubtful debts in the consumer finance sector but left agri provisioning alone, go figure.

Oldest mistake in the book to keep buying in a confirmed downtrend.

[winner69]

Close 110.

That's higher than yesterday's close so a good day

Be interesting to see how my weekly chart looks like tomorrow night.

Get back close to last weeks 116 and it would have just been a normal week in the life of heartland.

[iceman]

Close 110.

That's higher than yesterday's close so a good day

Be interesting to see how my weekly chart looks like tomorrow night.

Get back close to last weeks 116 and it would have just been a normal week in the life of heartland.

I hope they stay down until the srike price for the DRP has been decided :-)

[percy]

I hope they stay down until the srike price for the DRP has been decided :-)

Me too.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

[winner69]

ACC been selling and now longer a substantial shareholder

Some rave and get excited when they buy .....so for those punters is ACC selling a negative?

Maybe they still selling ...we will never know as they dont need to file notices if they are

[Beagle]

Yep...they've sold millions since June. Voting with their feet.

[winner69]

Yep...they've sold millions since June. Voting with their feet.

And probably continuing the selling as well ...wonder how many today?

Roger, they just don't get it, do they

[pennyacw]

I would have thought this was an asset allocation / macroeconomic adjustment on ACC's part. With rating agencies downgrading NZ Banks this will be of a reflection of this. ACC have lowered their allocation to a range of financial institutions lately.

[trader_jackson]

Yes ACC, won't be targeting heartland specifically I think, in fact I am glad ACC is the one who is "selling", as it is probably more "broad/allocation" based rather than specifically targeted at heartland

I think the selling has been reduced, as sell orders in generally seem to be a bit lower than they were say last week. As soon as any downward pressure on the share price (such as this selling by ACC - it is effectively putting a lid on the share price) is finished, the share price will rise above $1.20 relatively quickly (I imagine)

[SCOTTY]

Nothing to worry about. Just cashing up to pay for my last week shoulder operation. :)

[Beagle]

And probably continuing the selling as well ...wonder how many today?

Roger, they just don't get it, do they

No mate they have no idea whatsoever. Those of us that are patient will easily see off ACC's remaining 23m shares and the dairy downturn no problems at all. We're golden mate.

[percy]

Nothing to worry about. Just cashing up to pay for my last week shoulder operation. :)

Thought the up coming divie would have covered it...lol.

[percy]

Interesting seeing astute ACC selling down, while three insiders are increasing their holdings.
Please yourself who you think is right,astute ACC, or savy director Tomlinson,CEO Greenslade and Head of Banking Flood.
I am with the insiders.!!.
They are using THEIR OWN money after-all.!!! lol.

[SCOTTY]

Interesting seeing astute ACC selling down, while three insiders are increasing their holdings.
Please yourself who you think is right,astute ACC, or savy director Tomlinson,CEO Greenslade and Head of Banking Flood.
I am with the insiders.!!.
They are using THEIR OWN money after-all.!!! lol.

I'm with you Percy. Also topped up. Just hope the price stays down until ex drip :)

[winner69]

Their (ACC) record of successful investing in the sharemarket means you have don't have work so hard to pay their fees.
Yes,it pays to watch what they do.

A year ago ....suppose it depends on how hard you defend the cause whether it is seen as good or bad when ACC buy or sell

When ACC become a SSH again we can celebrate again

[Arbitrage]

ACC has its own reasons for buying and selling as they have demands for our money (such as the costs of accidents!!) they look after that they have to meet. Therefore they are not necessarily a good lead to follow. After topping up earlier in the week at 110 I am with the insiders.

[trader_jackson]

where did these massive sell orders come from (at $1.15?) approximately 500k sells with about half of them at $1.15... thoughts?

[Hoop]

where did these massive sell orders come from (at $1.15?) approximately 500k sells with about half of them at $1.15... thoughts?

No need to worry about the off market stuff...can be any number of reasons

[warthog]

Small crowd have 344k HNZ for sale. Traders pushing this around a lot.

[sb9]

Happy for it stay low until it goes ex-divvy, good for DRIP.

[Beagle]

Happy for it stay low until it goes ex-divvy, good for DRIP.

DRP can be a mixed bag. Ask those who took shares in lieu of divvy last time at $1.32 :ohmy:

[sb9]

DRP can be a mixed bag. Ask those who took shares in lieu of divvy last time at $1.32 :ohmy:

True, good value for DRIP at this level though :)

[RTM]

Well...that depends on the SP in the weeks after the date. I have opted out of the plan.....was getting tired of the price dropping below what I had paid. Will just make a business decision when and if I want more shares should the price drop or go up, rather than getting them by default.


True, good value for DRIP at this level though :)

[iceman]

Well...that depends on the SP in the weeks after the date. I have opted out of the plan.....was getting tired of the price dropping below what I had paid. Will just make a business decision when and if I want more shares should the price drop or go up, rather than getting them by default.

I don´t agree with that. I think it depends more on your investment strategy and horizon. For long term investors with modest holdings, a DRP in good steady companies is a great way of compounding savings, free of any fees.
Taking the dividend and then reinvesting it later will attract fees which can eat away your investment for small investors. Of course it also depends on whether one needs the cash or not.
But the SP in a few weeks does not have any bearing for me on whether to take part in a DP or not.
I have had full participation in the HNZ DRP for several years and it has achieved outstanding results overall. Yes of course there have been occasions where SP has dropped below DRP price but it is of little relevance long term.

[Joshuatree]

Sideshow Bob posted this re a scales item. there is a full page heartland ad there for farmers to help them transition off their farms.Opportunity knocks.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...8#/917db938/26 (http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/917db938#/917db938/26)

[Snow Leopard]

Nice: An as expected result from the Little Bank That Could.
On the assumption that it can carry on and hit the middle of the FY16 guidance range then I have a current value for HNZ of

$1.289 (per share :))

and a 30-Jun-16 target of

$1.351 (also per share :mellow:)

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Snow Leopard]

Sideshow Bob posted this re a scales item. there is a full page heartland ad there for farmers to help them transition off their farms.Opportunity knocks.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...8#/917db938/26 (http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/917db938#/917db938/26)

A (upto) seven year loan with the interest accumulating!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Beagle]

A (upto) seven year loan with the interest accumulating!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Yes I noticed that too PT. It appears nothing was learned from the GFC. One of the main issues in regard to finance companies coming unstuck was what you're alluding too, capitalising interest, (usually on property development loans). This coming in a week when the Reserve bank expressed concern with the additional $3.5 billion of new farm loans raised this year.

This strikes me as a quasi home equity release type product, perhaps some sort of veiled acknowledgement the HER division has underperformed expectations ?
One would hope the LVR limits have been set at a far more conservative level than the rest of their rural book at 61% otherwise with capitalising interest and declining farm prices it won't take long for Mr and Mrs Farmer to be underwater.

[Snow Leopard]

Yes I noticed that too PT. It appears nothing was learned from the GFC. One of the main issues in regard to finance companies coming unstuck was what you're alluding too, capitalising interest, (usually on property development loans). This coming in a week when the Reserve bank expressed concern with the additional $3.5 billion of new farm loans raised this year.

This strikes me as a quasi home equity release type product, perhaps some sort of veiled acknowledgement the HER division has underperformed expectations ?
One would hope the LVR limits have been set at a far more conservative level than the rest of their rural book at 61% otherwise with capitalising interest and declining farm prices it won't take long for Mr and Mrs Farmer to be underwater.


https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[K1W1G0LD]

https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

KH , crazy classic movie...................................
negativity , some people thrive on it, gets really boring.

[RTM]

Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/ad6e91e6/sfo-lays-charges-against-mediaweb-director-victor-john-clarke-involving-2-2-mln.html

"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."

[RTM]

Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/ad6e91e6/sfo-lays-charges-against-mediaweb-director-victor-john-clarke-involving-2-2-mln.html

"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."

[sb9]

Looks like its on move up slowly.....don't wanna jinx anybody though. Some big player might come and change it all over.

[Beagle]

Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/ad6e91e6/sfo-lays-charges-against-mediaweb-director-victor-john-clarke-involving-2-2-mln.html

"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."

One would presume that as the liquidators report was in May 2015 and there's little prospect of any money being recoverable that HNZ would have written this off as part of their specific bad debt's in FY15.

[sb9]

https://nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/269858

Chris Mace (Director) buying on market 713k shares. not bad.

[trader_jackson]

Not surprised... Heartland's trading at a huge discount, directors/management see this, amazing Mr Market doesn't (similar to ARV)...

What is surprising is that Aussie banks are all doing very well today and heartland's barely keeping in the green...

[Snow Leopard]

Not ideal....did "we" already know this ?

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/ad6e91e6/sfo-lays-charges-against-mediaweb-director-victor-john-clarke-involving-2-2-mln.html

"The latest liquidators report in May 2015 from Blacklock Rose liquidator Garry Whimp said two secured creditors – understood to be Heartland Bank and Trade Publication Ltd, are owed $1.449 million. The IRD has put in a claim for $287,190, while the company owes wages and holiday pay of $18,125. Claims from a further 24 unsecured creditors have been received totalling $625,631."

You may notice that the receivers and then the liquidators were called in March 2014, 18 months ago.
So it is highly likely that it featured in the FY2014 accounts and in an adjusted form in the FY2015 accounts.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[forest]

https://nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/269858

Chris Mace (Director) buying on market 713k shares. not bad.

This makes no sense to me, according to todays, above announcement, Chris Mace had no beneficial ordinary shares in HNZ before purchasing the 713k shares.

However on the 30 June 2014 according to the annual report of HNZ he had over 12mil shares in this class. I could not find any NZX announcements of Chris Mace having traded in the period between 30 June 2014 and today so unless I missed something we should expect a correction soon.

[Snow Leopard]

This makes no sense to me, according to todays, above announcement, Chris Mace had no beneficial ordinary shares in HNZ before purchasing the 713k shares.

However on the 30 June 2014 according to the annual report of HNZ he had over 12mil shares in this class. I could not find any NZX announcements of Chris Mace having traded in the period between 30 June 2014 and today so unless I missed something we should expect a correction soon.

You missed something - read the entire announcement

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[forest]

Thanks PT, comprehension was never a strength of mine.

Were I stopped reading and obviously still missing something is at the beginning of the announcement.

Summary of acquisition or disposal of relevant interest (excluding specified derivatives). It then talks about ordinary shares. And numbers held in class before acquisition or disposal being zero.

Would you like to explain this further, cheers forest

[Harvey Specter]

Would you like to explain this further, cheers forestRead page 2. He has a beneficial interest through 2 different entities. The existing holding has 12m and the new purchases are through a new entity which so only holds the new purchase of 700k.

[forest]

Thanks Harvey, now I understand. :)

[belted galloway]

While Chris Mace has bought 713k shares, institutional holders continue to offload. Nearly 10m last month.

[Bjauck]

While Chris Mace has bought 713k shares, institutional holders continue to offload. Nearly 10m last month.
It has been an interesting past month for transactions. Institutional off-loading compared with three insider purchases.

Maybe there has been an outflow from managed funds - retail investors being spooked or whatever and withdrawing their investments. Maybe some Kiwisavers have been transferring their funds from growth units to balanced or conservative units. There has been/ still is a risk-off environment. Management/directors are in tune (hopefully) with the actual business environment for the company.

[nextbigthing]

https://nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/269858

Chris Mace (Director) buying on market 713k shares. not bad.

Can't blame them for stocking up now while they can, prior to the Motor Vehicle Finance takeover announcement

:D

[janner]

, prior to the Motor Vehicle Finance takeover announcement :D

Can you back up that statement ???

[nextbigthing]

Can you back up that statement ???

Sorry mate it's just a wind up, hence the :D

That said, those directors must be buying for a reason*, it's certainly a positive sign.

*pure speculation on my behalf. But it makes sense to me.

[Beagle]

One of the other directors bought 5 million shares a few months back at $1.30 when the private equity guys sold out. Director buying in decent volume isn't always a sign that the SP will head north.

[nextbigthing]

Interesting that the other banks headed north by 4-5% yesterday, e.g. ANZ and WBC but HNZ did Jack. What's the market saying?

The market is saying, 'we're not perfect and sometimes we overlook things' which creates buying opportunites. :D

[warthog]

One of the other directors bought 5 million shares a few months back at $1.30 when the private equity guys sold out. Director buying in decent volume isn't always a sign that the SP will head north.

No, not always.

But what is always a sign that the SP will head north?

Remember Pring's "weight of evidence"…

[sb9]

Big buy orders coming thro' at $1.15 and $1.14 now.

[trader_jackson]

Maybe Mr Market has realised what I (and a few others) have been saying these past weeks?

Trying to jump on the band waggon before Heartland begins jumping into the 1.20's and 1.30's

[janner]

Maybe Mr Market has realised what I (and a few others) have been saying these past weeks?

Trying to jump on the band waggon before Heartland begins jumping into the 1.20's and 1.30's

Maybe they are just dividend strippers :-))

[trader_jackson]

yes could be... for me I think I will participate in the DRP this time, to cheap to miss...

[sb9]

Big volumes through today around $1.16 mark.

[percy]

Significant.??
Annual meeting put off for 5 weeks from Friday 6th November to 11th December.??!!!!! ??????????????????
"Something in the air"?
Last time they did this was when they thought they would have the banking licence by the later date.
The thirsty ones will be disappointed by the early 1.30 pm start.May be lucky to get a cup of tea.

[nextbigthing]

Significant.??
Annual meeting put off for 5 weeks from Friday 6th November to 11th December.??!!!!! ??????????????????
"Something in the air"?
Last time they did this was when they thought they would have the banking licence by the later date.
The thirsty ones will be disappointed by the early 1.30 pm start.May be lucky to get a cup of tea.

Directors buying in. It's all adding up.

[trader_jackson]

Where are all these sell orders at $1.16 coming from??

And what does everyone think of delaying the shareholders meeting? (good or bad?)

[percy]

Where are all these sell orders at $1.16 coming from??

And what does everyone think of delaying the shareholders meeting? (good or bad?)

The sell orders are coming from people in the know,realising Heartland must be facing very difficult times,if it comes to moving the time of the meeting from 4pm to 1.30pm.It is a give away.They can't afford the booze bill!!!
What is the point of owning HNZ shares if there is no booze up?
A cup of tea and a scone.!!
Moving the meeting closer to Xmas is again a give away.People are too busy in December to go to a "dry" meeting.! lol.

[nextbigthing]

Where are all these sell orders at $1.16 coming from??

The sell orders are coming from people and institutions that want to sell.


And what does everyone think of delaying the shareholders meeting? (good or bad?)

Read Percys post just two above yours.

[axe]

[QUOTE=nextbigthing;590805]The sell orders are coming from people and institutions that want to sell.

Some Kiwisaver funds will have clients will shifting from growth/equity to more conservative funds as the "market" has received a bunch of negative media recently.
Some will have to sell down to balance their portfolios.

[Beagle]

The sell orders are coming from people in the know,realising Heartland must be facing very difficult times,if it comes to moving the time of the meeting from 4pm to 1.30pm.It is a give away.They can't afford the booze bill!!!
What is the point of owning HNZ shares if there is no booze up?
A cup of tea and a scone.!!
Moving the meeting closer to Xmas is again a give away.People are too busy in December to go to a "dry" meeting.! lol.

I apologise folks. Clearly big Rodge drank them dry last year. Poor move on their part. Too long from date of profit announcement till date of ASM..plenty more will be known about dairy delinquencies by then and a possible Fitch downgrade. The least HNZ could have done is have a booze up so shareholders can drown their sorrows. This is a cost saving measure, clearly times are tough at HNZ.

[horus1]

You only reset if you have a good reason . I am a substantial holder and this a good company with a very good management team . I look forward to the meeting

[Snow Leopard]

Significant.??
Annual meeting put off for 5 weeks from Friday 6th November to 11th December.??!!!!! ??????????????????
"Something in the air"?
Last time they did this was when they thought they would have the banking licence by the later date.
The thirsty ones will be disappointed by the early 1.30 pm start.May be lucky to get a cup of tea.

They looked into my calendar: 6th Nov I was free but I am in Osaka on 11th Dec.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[percy]

They looked into my calendar: 6th Nov I was free but I am in Osaka on 11th Dec.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Knew it would be because of something significant.!................lol.

[Xerof]

Keeping well clear of Melbourne Cup and Show Weeks....

[Master98]

Significant.??
Annual meeting put off for 5 weeks from Friday 6th November to 11th December.??!!!!! ??????????????????
"Something in the air"?
Last time they did this was when they thought they would have the banking licence by the later date.
The thirsty ones will be disappointed by the early 1.30 pm start.May be lucky to get a cup of tea.
Extra one month uncertainty, I could pick $1.0 per share before the annual meeting.

[RTM]

Thank you Roger and PaperTiger, that helps me understand.
So its the ones we don't know about that we need to be concerned about !
Cheers,
RTM


You may notice that the receivers and then the liquidators were called in March 2014, 18 months ago.
So it is highly likely that it featured in the FY2014 accounts and in an adjusted form in the FY2015 accounts.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Harvey Specter]

Thank you Roger and PaperTiger, that helps me understand.
So its the ones we don't know about that we need to be concerned about !
Cheers,
RTMno! It's the ones Heartland doesn't know about that you may (if you so desired) be worried about. But I wouldnt bother - they are a bank and bad debts are part of their business and (hopefully) factored into the interest rates they charge.

[K1W1G0LD]

Here's one for all the Worry Warts on here ......................some in the stock market for the wrong reasons.
Specifically for this company though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Bobby Mcferrin has it nailed!!:t_up:

[Arbitrage]

Any chartists out there want to comment about the $1.16 price today? A breakout or a blip?

[beetills]

Isee that TURNERS are making a bid for 20% of MTF.
Weren't HNZ at one stage trying to buy MTF.

[sb9]

Any chartists out there want to comment about the $1.16 price today? A breakout or a blip?

One more day before it goes ex-div, so trying to get in before that I think.

[Deej5]

One more day before it goes ex-div, so trying to get in before that I think.

I get that - but what I don't get, is why sell?

[percy]

Isee that TURNERS are making a bid for 20% of MTF.
Weren't HNZ at one stage trying to buy MTF.

Yes they were last year.
Until the result of the court case appeal is known,no-one knows what the actual liability is,so TNR are game.
Most of the owner dealers of MTF are Turner's competitors,so TNR's increasing their holding to near 20% will most probably work against the other MTF shareholders interest.
It will stop someone like HNZ taking over MTF.Had HNZ taken over MTF it would have been a good bolt on for HNZ, and the MTF dealers would have had a bank financing their deals.

[sb9]

In the meantime, Chris Mace (Director) increases his holding to 1ml shares through latest purchase.

[Snow Leopard]

I am a believer that a log price axis is the only true price axis to have on a chart and thus in my book HNZ really busted it's uptrend a while ago and I should not be holding the vast holding that I do indeed hold.

But looking at this google finance chart with added green line:
7601

well I wonder if you all are linearists and are happily keeping that (false) trend intact for a while longer. :rolleyes:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: HNZ still #1 in the Tiger Pawfolio.

[trader_jackson]

Ex dividend and already going up again, wouldn't be surprising to see this back at $1.16 by the end of the week (I mean it should really be well above this already...)

As I am a new investor to heartland, how does the price for the DRP get determined? (at such low prices, I have elected for the DRP over cash dividend)

[sb9]

Ex dividend and already going up again, wouldn't be surprising to see this back at $1.16 by the end of the week (I mean it should really be well above this already...)

As I am a new investor to heartland, how does the price for the DRP get determined? (at such low prices, I have elected for the DRP over cash dividend)

Below is the extract from company's results announcement statement issued recently.
Hope this helps.

"The Dividend Reinvestment Plan (DRP) will be available and a discount of 1% will apply (that is, the strike price under the DRP will be 99% of the volume weighted average sale price of Heartland shares over the 5 trading days following the Record Date)."

[winner69]

I am a believer that a log price axis is the only true price axis to have on a chart and thus in my book HNZ really busted it's uptrend a while ago and I should not be holding the vast holding that I do indeed hold.

But looking at this google finance chart with added green line:
7601

well I wonder if you all are linearists and are happily keeping that (false) trend intact for a while longer. :rolleyes:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: HNZ still #1 in the Tiger Pawfolio.

Nice clean chart PT

So Heartland $3.30 odd in 4 years ....yippee

[Hoop]

I am a believer that a log price axis is the only true price axis to have on a chart and thus in my book HNZ really busted it's uptrend a while ago and I should not be holding the vast holding that I do indeed hold.

But looking at this google finance chart with added green line:
7601

well I wonder if you all are linearists and are happily keeping that (false) trend intact for a while longer. :rolleyes:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: HNZ still #1 in the Tiger Pawfolio.

No arguments from me with your HNZ chart post...Log scale would be better than your linear chart example shown above because the price has moved rapidly and constantly (~x3) over the 3 year period...but remember PT there are reasons why some charts are drawn in a linear scale and there are other reasons why some charts are drawn on a log scale....that is why there are 2 formats for us chartists to use... logarithmic and linear.....We are given a choice depending on what we want to do with the chart...try drawing BB and S+R lines and show a the Linear distinct H&S pattern on a 6 year log chart for DIL ..The H&S pattern is not noticeable using the log scale

All my HNZ charts are linear because I haven't drawn in a long term trend line and being a chart pattern chartist linear charts suits me better ......Long term Trend lines are only one indicator and as indicators go they are over-rated and often they break and have to be adjusted..as the saying goes .."one should never rely on a single indicator"..Also primary trendlines are usually late to signal as was the case for HNZ.

Refering to my 17th June 2015 post#5267 HNZ chart (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8425-Heartland-New-Zealand-Ltd-%28HNZ%29/page352) many TA indicators fired sell signals back in February at $1.35,,because of the rapid rise the EMA's were late to fire..The failure of the next rally to break $1.37 resistance forming a lower high in March was a confirmation sell signal and a later lower low of $1.27 saw a forming of a descending channel...

2 months later in May the continuing descending channel saw the breaking of the EMA's... firing more sell signals

The log primary trend line broke on 23rd June at $1.20...4 months into the downtrend..This is the example why I'm not a great fan of primary trendlines being used as sell signals ditto for EMA200...so often its around this area that a correction ends and you've waited and watched the descent then sold only to see the share price reverse back up into a new uptrend.

Some TA investors would have exited in February and the rest would've waved the white flag after the failed rally in May Red dotted line on my chart..


Now for the better news.....some TA indicators have fired off buy signals last week for the first time this year..early days yet but there's faint signs of promise emerging..

[percy]

Hoop.
As always thank you for your comments.
Is there a correlation between these TA indicators firing up buy signals,and the return of Paper Tiger to HNZ thread.?

[Beagle]

100 day MA is currently $1.21.

[Hoop]

100 day MA is currently $1.21.

Roger try using EMA100 if you can...the reasoning for using the exponential method is the lagging indicator becomes little more sensitive as it's focuses (weighted) more on recent price within its 100 period data series...The ema100 is at $1.187

[percy]

We must also remember the longer the time frame,the more reliable the indicator is.
The 500 day EMA for HNZ is $1.087,which confirms the long term uptrend remains intact.

[Beagle]

We must also remember the longer the time frame,the more reliable the indicator is.
The 500 day EMA for HNZ is $1.087,which confirms the long term uptrend remains intact.

LOL If it all goes wrong you could try using a 1000 day moving average. 200 days is the "recognised" long term indicator isn't it Hoop ?

[Snow Leopard]

Forget all the Technical Analysis Rubbish...

The Tiger Still Likes Heartland - that is all you need to know.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

This post has been scanned for traces of sarcasm - the result is off the scale

[beetills]

HNZ still interested in MTF according to announcement today.

[percy]

A very clear announcement,that spells out the issues very simply.

[SCOTTY]

A very clear announcement,that spells out the issues very simply.

Maybe has something to do with delaying the AGM?

[percy]

Maybe has something to do with delaying the AGM?

Ha, ha, yes,I think you are onto it.!!!!

[nextbigthing]

Didn't the directors just buy some more? Gee, I wonder why that could be?

[Hoop]

LOL If it all goes wrong you could try using a 1000 day moving average. 200 days is the "recognised" long term indicator isn't it Hoop ?

Yep...
MA200 is sometimes recognised as a confirmation point for a new cyclic bear or bull tide....As an bear tide confirming indicator it can be too late but it is handy as a confirmation for a bull tide as it seems to be early enough...When a stock is bottoming out with a double or triple bottom pattern the MA200 can make a very useful variable S&R line...
The MA200 number can be different to say using 250 because 200 being commonly used it will have a trading effect therefore act as a S&R line.

The MA200 is a great hindsight indicator:)....It's used in textbooks illustrating cyclic reversals to a bear market + the later capitulation with great effect ..Unfortunately in practice that MA200 illustration is useless because of the too late lagging effect and also sometime the MA200 break happens just before a price rally indicating an end of a bull market correction......... ..Traders would use leading indicators and other more sensitive indicators and would "out" before the MA200 fires the sell signal..

As a chartist I find the MA200 usefulness comes into play less often than other indicators...I find the trend of the MA200 can be as useful...

MA200 is best used as data for specific purposes...
e.g...I use it as it is a component (NYA200r) in my sentiment indicator set up (seen on the S&P500 thread) to predict a bull market correction or a cyclic reversal

As far as HNZ goes..

MA200 was hopelessly inaccurate up to April 2012 until due to the restructure..

In June 2015 it was too late as a sell signal.. but it did signal HNZ change to Bear market status as it confirmed the log primary trendline break at $1.20..This change of status theoretically meant that investors would now swap their investing strategies from Bull market sailing strategies (e.g Buy and hold) to the more active Bear market rowing strategies (e.g buy at support sell at resistance)...

After many years of inaction the MA200 role will be more useful, more important as it will be:
1...a lot quicker to confirm a cyclic reversal to create a new primary uptrend (change of status back to Bull market)
2...or...act as a resistance area in a continuing bear market status

[percy]

Often it pays to use a different EMA for different companies.
Back testing will give you the best EMA to use for each company.

[Hoop]

Often it pays to use a different EMA for different companies.
Back testing will give you the best EMA to use for each company.

Yes....also true for TA indicators..the default setting is only the combined best fit overall for medium term investing..

I'm basically lazy so near enough is good enough...however some TA badily behaved stocks have motivated me to fiddle around with the settings...But mostly I can't bothered and I simply leave these TA naughty stocks well alone................plenty of other well behaved fish in the sea

[warthog]

Yes....also true for TA indicators..the default setting is only the combined best fit overall for medium term investing..

I'm basically lazy so near enough is good enough...however some TA badily behaved stocks have motivated me to fiddle around with the settings...But mostly I can't bothered and I simply leave these TA naughty stocks well alone................plenty of other well behaved fish in the sea

Which are your naughties Hoop?

[Beagle]

Thanks Hoop. Clear break up through the 200 day MA will be required to reignite my interest in HNZ.

P.S. WOW who smashed out all the buyers and dropped a whole bundle to smack it down at close at $1.09 ?

[winner69]

Thanks Hoop. Clear break up through the 200 day MA will be required to reignite my interest in HNZ.

P.S. WOW who smashed out all the buyers and dropped a whole bundle to smack it down at close at $1.09 ?

Percy?

Saw the word 'capitulation' in Hoops post

[Beagle]

Nah, can't be Percy he's still happy because apparently the 500 day MA is $1.087. Will he be using the 1000 day MA next week, that's the question ?

[winner69]

Nah, can't be Percy he's still happy because apparently the 500 day MA is $1.087. Will he be using the 1000 day MA next week, that's the question ?

$1.09 is higher than $1.087

Up trend still in place

[Master98]

Extra one month uncertainty, I could pick $1.0 per share before the annual meeting.
lol,looks like my $1.0 target will come early than expected.

[percy]

lol,looks like my $1.0 target will come early than expected.

lol.Yes,and I am "well positioned" having DRP.!

[Beagle]

$1.09 is higher than $1.087

Up trend still in place

I guess you could make that argument since when they first listed in 2011 they were mid 80's so if our friend want to go to the moving average max there's definitely an increase of a "whopping" 28% in four years. Interestingly I just had a look at how that hardly spectacular increase over 4 years compares with ANZ, NAB, WBC and BEN..all those banks have been pretty lacklustre performers in recent years.
Financials no longer flavour of the decade in a post GFC environment ?

[Baa_Baa]

I guess you could make that argument since when they first listed in 2011 they were mid 80's so if our friend want to go to the moving average max there's definitely an increase of a "whopping" 28% in four years. Interestingly I just had a look at how that hardly spectacular increase over 4 years compares with ANZ, NAB, WBC and BEN..all those banks have been pretty lacklustre performers in recent years.
Financials no longer flavour of the decade in a post GFC environment ?

Buy when it makes sense, patience is key.

[nextbigthing]

Originally posted to the PGW thread;


Good on ya mate. Technical analysis be dammed, they're good value at this level. Buy in gloom, sell in boom :)

No significant change to the underlying fundamentals for HNZ, so perhaps the same quote applies for HNZ Roger. Back the truck up mate :t_up:

[K1W1G0LD]

Promising start to the day for HNZ, but we'll see what happens this PM .Go's to show what an overreaction friday's selldown was . Seems to happen whenever an announcement is made by the company whether good, bad or otherwise!

[beetills]

Announcement today from MTF regarding the Turners offer and the HNZ letter in my opinion appeared to favour HNZ.Now i could be completly wrong having spent 2 years in the fifth form but thats how i have read it.Maybe somebody better educated could offer their opinion.

[Beagle]

Originally posted to the PGW thread;
No significant change to the underlying fundamentals for HNZ, so perhaps the same quote applies for HNZ Roger. Back the truck up mate :t_up:

Now we've had 3 positive increases in the GDT auction price its taken some of the heat out of the prospect for a severe effect on bad debtors in their dairy loan book but I think the complete lack of extra general provisioning in this area of their balance sheet was a very interesting call for the directors to make at balance date. I am not as bearish as I was when dairy was completely in / "down" ? the toilet but where not out of the woods yet by any stretch of the imagination and this is definitely not a "back the truck up situation".

All the banks in Australasia have come under pressure lately as nobody believes their bad and doubtful debt provisioning is adequate and serious questions remain over the veracity of their provisioning assumptions. HNZ are still vulnerable to a Fitch downgrade in my opinion all the more so since S&P downgraded so many other banks and they've warned on dairy before. Shareholders will be keenly hoping the GDT prices keep going north and the worst is already behind us. I think HNZ are only fair value at present with little prospect of any SP appreciation unless dairy recovers significantly. If dairy stops going up or Fitch downgrades we could easily see $1.00 IMO.

[sb9]

Big volumes thro today, almost 5ml shares so far, thoughts?

[winner69]

Big volumes thro today, almost 5ml shares so far, thoughts?

The 2 big off market trades have been for 110 and 109

VWAP at the mo 109 something

Some keen seller?

hmm

[kizame]

The 2 big off market trades have been for 110 and 109

VWAP at the mo 109 something

Some keen seller?

hmm

Some very keen buyer/s

[percy]

The wife's dividend is in "OUR" account.....lol.

[SCOTTY]

Just under 20% of divi taken as drip @ $1.11

[winner69]

Some very keen buyer/s

....and grateful ones ones buying at a decent discount (bargain price)

[kizame]

Can anyone tell me when the dividend,paid yesterday should be seen to be in an account?
Much abliged for any help.

[Deej5]

Mine was paid just after 4pm yesterday.

[kizame]

Yeah I have changed address so maybe things don't tie up,I tried to sell a parcel of shares and because my addy wasn't changed they refused to accept the order,after the fact though,not as I was doing it so i would know haha.

[winner69]

I go away for a month and come back to find that the downtrend is still in place

Probably still be 110-115 this Christmas

[ziggy415]

I go away for a month and come back to find that the downtrend is still in place

Probably still be 110-115 this Christmas
should know the reason for the change of date for the agm by then ...will the reason be good news or bad....tier two capital raising maybe for buy back...exciting times ahead

[trader_jackson]

I highly doubt they delayed the meeting because of bad news...

[ziggy415]

I highly doubt they delayed the meeting because of bad news...
yep... my thoughts too

[iceman]

[QUOTE=ziggy415;593052]should know the reason for the change of date for the agm by then ...will the reason be good news or bad....tier two capital raising maybe for buy back...exciting times ahead[/QUOTE

The Surpreme Court liability judgement about MTF's Sportzone loans is due late November. HNZ can not make an offer for MTF until that liability is known, as they've said in recent announcement. This could be the reason for delayed AGM

[Beagle]

I go away for a month and come back to find that the downtrend is still in place

Probably still be 110-115 this Christmas

Agreed. With Turners taking the bold / reckless ? stance of taking a blocking stake in MTF where's the catalyst for a break back above the 100 day MA ?

[iceman]

Agreed. With Turners taking the bold / reckless ? stance of taking a blocking stake in MTF where's the catalyst for a break back above the 100 day MA ?

But they haven't got that blocking stake have they Roger, only made an offer or have I missed an announcement ?

[Beagle]

Quite right, them getting to 20% is not an absolute given but I would have thought with the unresolved Sportzone matter and the decision by the High Court currently standing against them some MTF shareholders will be keen to cash in their chips. I am surprised by the High Court's stance and I am sure some shareholders in MTF are too. Turners have first mover advantage over HNZ but I think given the legal proceedings their offer looks a little reckless in the circumstances.

Futures indicating some more relief coming in the next GDT auction result...maybe some more dairy farmers might scrape their way through...

[iceman]

Quite right, them getting to 20% is not an absolute given but I would have thought with the unresolved Sportzone matter and the decision by the High Court currently standing against them some MTF shareholders will be keen to cash in their chips. I am surprised by the High Court's stance and I am sure some shareholders in MTF are too. Turners have first mover advantage over HNZ but I think given the legal proceedings their offer looks a little reckless in the circumstances.

Futures indicating some more relief coming in the next GDT auction result...maybe some more dairy farmers might scrape their way through...

I think with the Sportzone case and liabilities unresolved, an offer for MTF can only be regarded as reckless !!

[percy]

I think with the Sportzone case and liabilities unresolved, an offer for MTF can only be regarded as reckless !!

Exactly......................

[Beagle]

I think with the Sportzone case and liabilities unresolved, an offer for MTF can only be regarded as reckless !!


Exactly......................

Yes I wouldn't be happy at all if I was a shareholder in Turners. This for all intents and purposes looks like a punt on a binary event with potential for significant value destruction...a punt on a blocking stake. How do Turners directors think they can fairly value MTF shares in the circumstances ?
The mind boggles to understand how Turners directors are exercising their fiduciary obligations to shareholders in good faith and in their best interests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary Maybe they want to reflect on the definition of fiduciary duty.

[blackcap]

Yes I wouldn't be happy at all if I was a shareholder in Turners. This for all intents and purposes looks like a punt on a binary event with potential for significant value destruction...a punt on a blocking stake. How do Turners directors think they can fairly value MTF shares in the circumstances ?
The mind boggles to understand how Turners directors are exercising their fiduciary obligations to shareholders in good faith and in their best interests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary Maybe they want to reflect on the definition of fiduciary duty.

Is it a decision made at board level though or at exec level?

[Harvey Specter]

Is it a decision made at board level though or at exec level?To make an offer public, it would have to be at the board level in my view.

[kizame]

Reading between the lines,I think HNZ have done a deal with MTF,and regardless of the outcome will make an offer or maybe some other deal.
Otherwise why postpone the AGM? And didn't MTF sort of support HNZs interest in the company.

[winner69]

Reading between the lines,I think HNZ have done a deal with MTF,and regardless of the outcome will make an offer or maybe some other deal.
Otherwise why postpone the AGM? And didn't MTF sort of support HNZs interest in the company.

ASM postponed as Paper Tiger pointed out it clashed with the directors off to the Melbourne Cup.

You guys read too much into announcements

[blackcap]

ASM postponed as Paper Tiger pointed out it clashed with the directors off to the Melbourne Cup.

You guys read too much into announcements

Your probably right on the money. Some diligent CFO or coy secretary would have scheduled for between 2 and 4 Nov until some keen director punter pointed out that Tuesday falls there... ok lets postpone...

[percy]

Your probably right on the money. Some diligent CFO or coy secretary would have scheduled for between 2 and 4 Nov until some keen director punter pointed out that Tuesday falls there... ok lets postpone...

Yeah Right.!!!
I think there's a bit more to it than that.!
Most probably "invested" in a horse which is a "dead cert" to win The Cup.!.................
Well, we do know they have a small exposure to cows,but no mention has been made of horses.
lol.

[nextbigthing]

Yeah Right.!!!
I think there's a bit more to it than that.!
Most probably "invested" in a horse which is a "dead cert" to win The Cup.!.................
Well, we do know they have a small exposure to cows,but no mention has been made of horses.
lol.

Perhaps they have a few spare dairy cows and they're running them in the race to give them something to do.

[Beagle]

Reading between the lines,I think HNZ have done a deal with MTF,and regardless of the outcome will make an offer or maybe some other deal.
Otherwise why postpone the AGM? And didn't MTF sort of support HNZs interest in the company.
There has been harsh words between these two companies before so I think you're drawing a very long bow with that speculation.


To make an offer public, it would have to be at the board level in my view.
Agreed.

MTF constitution requires consent of the company for any shareholder to own more than 10% thereof, (source, content contained in Turners notice of proposal to acquire 20% stake).
Anyone looking to take this puppy over will need to be working closely with its directors.



Perhaps they have a few spare dairy cows and they're running them in the race to give them something to do.
LOL too funny !!

[blackcap]

To make an offer public, it would have to be at the board level in my view.

I actually meant the Turners board or exec. Maybe Paul Byrnes just thought it would be a good investment (only about $5m for TNR) and as such the board members fiduciary duties are not challenged....

[Harvey Specter]

I actually meant the Turners board or exec. Maybe Paul Byrnes just thought it would be a good investment (only about $5m for TNR) and as such the board members fiduciary duties are not challenged....So did I. You dont make a takeover announcement for many millions of dollars without board approval, even if it is just at a conceptual level.

[blockhead]

I recently opened a couple of accounts with Heartland (bit of anti big non nz banks feeling going on). First impressions are of very helpful staff but a couple of months into operation I am finding internet banking is not is simple and modern as the "big banks" was. To look at the 2 accounts I need to log in separately, cant have access to both with just one log on, with Westpac I could see all my accounts at once. I went to transfer some money from "Direct Call" account to "Transaction" account on Sunday and it didn't actually show in the transaction account until Tuesday. Westpac and BNZ are instantaneous. Funny enough the $15k I was transferring didn't show in either account on the Monday, mysteriously disappeared into the cloud I presume ???

Orright, perhaps fledgling banks can't afford the powerful computer systems to manage this, any other posters find similar experiences ?

[Bjauck]

I recently opened a couple of accounts with Heartland (bit of anti big non nz banks feeling going on). First impressions are of very helpful staff but a couple of months into operation I am finding internet banking is not is simple and modern as the "big banks" was. To look at the 2 accounts I need to log in separately, cant have access to both with just one log on, with Westpac I could see all my accounts at once. I went to transfer some money from "Direct Call" account to "Transaction" account on Sunday and it didn't actually show in the transaction account until Tuesday. Westpac and BNZ are instantaneous. Funny enough the $15k I was transferring didn't show in either account on the Monday, mysteriously disappeared into the cloud I presume ???

Orright, perhaps fledgling banks can't afford the powerful computer systems to manage this, any other posters find similar experiences ?
I don't have a transaction account with Heartland but I do have a direct call account and several term PIEs - I can access them all from the one home page.

Initially I had several Heartland log-in identities as a legacy issue from having had a fixed interest deposit with Wrightson's and later opening a Term PIE with Heartland. I had to ask Heartland to close one customer number and transfer the account to the other.

[axe]

Some big volume through today.
7657

[winner69]

Some big volume through today.
7657

Yes, 4 times recent daily average

What you reckon this means?

[kizame]

As I said before,somethings in the pipeline,and some people know about it,or are speculating.

[axe]

Yes, 4 times recent daily average

What you reckon this means?

From the depth this morning with I think 200,000+ on the sell side at 1.14 I would have said there was resistance @ 1.14. (1.14 is 50MA?)


Maybe a break out coming?????

[nextbigthing]

Positive announcement and $1.60 before Christmas.

[sb9]

What's pleasing about today's volume is that the sp held quite well, which suggests buy side is very strong. Hopefully this could be the break out.

[Beagle]

Huge volume today already.

[sb9]

Yeah, very bid is side has huge volumes building....$1.17 soon?

[Beagle]

$1.17 is the 100 day MA line. Our friend Percy will be getting very excited soon.

[100101]

Perhaps ACC are using their claims money to buy shares again.

[iceman]

$1.17 is the 100 day MA line. Our friend Percy will be getting very excited soon.

Mate he has been excited and very well positioned with HNZ for a very long time :-)

[percy]

PCC.[percy's creative charting].
Yahoo are showing 50 day EMA $1.14 and the 200day EMA $1.17.
The share price today is $1.16.
Now using PCC we add the recent 4.5cents dividend to today's $1.16 sp and get $1.205 cents.!!!
So now we get the full PCC picture==== HNZ sp is well ahead of both the 50 day and the 200 day EMA.!!!,lol.

[Beagle]

PCC.[percy's creative charting].
Yahoo are showing 50 day EMA $1.14 and the 200day EMA $1.17.
The share price today is $1.16.
Now using PCC we add the recent 4.5cents dividend to today's $1.16 sp and get $1.205 cents.!!!
So now we get the full PCC picture==== HNZ sp is well ahead of both the 50 day and the 200 day EMA.!!!,lol.

LOL Is creative charting a derivative of creative accounting :)

[winner69]

The B S Generator came up with this today - "enthusiastically formulate leading-edge alignments"

Seems a good way to describe Percy's PCC

[kizame]

Maybe sentiment around the world now not so gloomy.
Dairy price futures up again.
Already 3 months into 2016 yr,so fundamentals should be starting to look pretty good.
And I think something is in the pipeline regarding a deal or aquisition, hence the volume maybe.

[banter]

PCC.[percy's creative charting].
Yahoo are showing 50 day EMA $1.14 and the 200day EMA $1.17.
The share price today is $1.16.
Now using PCC we add the recent 4.5cents dividend to today's $1.16 sp and get $1.205 cents.!!!
So now we get the full PCC picture==== HNZ sp is well ahead of both the 50 day and the 200 day EMA.!!!,lol.
One way of adjusting for dividends is to take them off all the prices before it went ex.
And 7659 is what the chart looks like for HNZ, using dividend-adjusted prices as above.

The HNZ price (1.16) sits between the 50 and 200 day SMAs (1.11 and 1.19)

The mid-point PE over the past 5 years is about 11.5. If 2016 earnings are 11.5cps, per HNZ forecast, that gives a value of $1.32

IMO 11.5 is too low a PE for HNZ.

[Beagle]

Off 4 traders based on current prices and consensus EPS for 2016 stocks
ANZ PE 10.6
NAB PE 12.2
BEN PE 11.2
WPC PE 12.2
BOQ PE 11.4

Consensus EPS for HNZ for FY16 11.0 cps...pick whatever PE you think is appropriate, at $1.17 it trades on a PE of 10.64 - Decide for yourself if you think its under-priced.

Disc I am still on the side-lines and while its fair to say dairy isn't as bleak as it was they're not out of the woods yet with an average loan value to dairy farmers in the 60% plus range...what banking guru ever thought it a good idea to let their average LVR to this sector get into the 60% plus range goodness only knows ?

[winner69]

One way of adjusting for dividends is to take them off all the prices before it went ex.
And 7659 is what the chart looks like for HNZ, using dividend-adjusted prices as above.

The HNZ price (1.16) sits between the 50 and 200 day SMAs (1.11 and 1.19)

The mid-point PE over the past 5 years is about 11.5. If 2016 earnings are 11.5cps, per HNZ forecast, that gives a value of $1.32

IMO 11.5 is too low a PE for HNZ.

That Sentiment Line is interesting

Is it the calculation you have shown as a % (Rhs)?

Where did you pick up the concept?

Always learning

[banter]

That Sentiment Line is interesting

Is it the calculation you have shown as a % (Rhs)?

Where did you pick up the concept?


'Sentiment' here is the % by which the 50 day MA is greater than or less than the 200. The green line is the NZ50 sentiment.
Both plotted on the RHS.

HNZ sentiment has just turned - it has stopped falling and started rising. The 'sentiment' chart tends to follow long smooth many-month cycles - not sure if it is tradeable though.

Home grown idea.

[janner]

Mate he has been excited and very well positioned with HNZ for a very long time :-)

Percy and I ( Sounds very Regal ).. Have been into HNZ since the beginning .. Along with others..

Sold half a week or so ago which returned ALL of my original investment.. :-))))

Due to not feeling happy with the current market. ( Still not happy with the current market ) ..

However.. !!!.. I am sitting uncomfortably with the thought of selling down HNZ..

Made even more uncomfortable having the feeling that the right thing was done.. :-)))

That is the market :-))))

Aye perc ??

[percy]

Percy and I ( Sounds very Regal ).. Have been into HNZ since the beginning .. Along with others..

Sold half a week or so ago which returned ALL of my original investment.. :-))))

Due to not feeling happy with the current market. ( Still not happy with the current market ) ..

However.. !!!.. I am sitting uncomfortably with the thought of selling down HNZ..

Made even more uncomfortable having the feeling that the right thing was done.. :-)))

That is the market :-))))

Aye perc ??

Through lack of interest I have stopped reading all the negative news about,China,Greece,Europe,USA,Aussie mining etc.
OK, the Aussie banks are having to raise capital, and have other challenges that HNZ do not have.
Latest Free Trade deal will help NZ, and so the future looks great.My NZ shares are going great guns,with more and more increasing dividends hitting my bank a/c.Last week HNZ,today AWK,next week SKL,MEL, and EBO.
I rough guide of how I am tracking is the ST NZ competition.I am 21st up 14.78%,and in the Aussie competition I am 17th up over 20%..That beats fixed interest."Better to own the bank, than having money in the bank"...lol.

[Joshuatree]

One frozen kangaroo tail will be shipped to your address. What does that mean? Picture a kangaroo without one.

[iceman]

Percy and I ( Sounds very Regal ).. Have been into HNZ since the beginning .. Along with others..

Sold half a week or so ago which returned ALL of my original investment.. :-))))

Due to not feeling happy with the current market. ( Still not happy with the current market ) ..

However.. !!!.. I am sitting uncomfortably with the thought of selling down HNZ..

Made even more uncomfortable having the feeling that the right thing was done.. :-)))

That is the market :-))))

Aye perc ??

Yes it sure has been a good ride. I was there with you before it became Heartland. I have been though a very similar process to you. Back in May I sold a reasonable part of my NZX portfolio due to uneasy feeling about the market. This included a large chunk of my HNZ shares. I never felt good about it so bought them back in September, luckily for about 14c less than I sold them for and while they were still CD. I feel much better having them all back as I see no reason whatsoever not to hold HNZ as a significant part of my portfolio.
I am not concerned about dairy slow down having a major effect on HNZ as it is a small part of their loan book. Rest of the loan book is good and growing and I have little doubt we will see ongoing growth through acquisitons. Market action this week supports that view.

[Hoop]

One way of adjusting for dividends is to take them off all the prices before it went ex.
And 7659 is what the chart looks like for HNZ, using dividend-adjusted prices as above.

The HNZ price (1.16) sits between the 50 and 200 day SMAs (1.11 and 1.19)

The mid-point PE over the past 5 years is about 11.5. If 2016 earnings are 11.5cps, per HNZ forecast, that gives a value of $1.32

IMO 11.5 is too low a PE for HNZ.

Hmm interesting sentiment line Banter...yes you can have fun making homegrown sentiment indicators

Low PE??? ...It's a "thing" with Banking Institutions ..During healthy times most banks seem to always be below the market PE average..as an example ANZ is currently around 11.2 and its shareprice has bounced around a bit but overall has gone no where for the last 3 years even with record profits


One way of adjusting for dividends is to take them off all the prices before it went ex. Yes that's the accepted rule..

Some charting programs have an optional tick box for adjustments (some don't work:p)...I find this valuable as most chart data by default don't adjust and TA indicators can get horribly screwed up and can have lasting effects

This may be a personal thing but over the years I have been stuffed up with adjusting prices with div payouts which has cost me money...so I have changed my mind with adjustments...
With splits or other such artificial price movements I still adjust..


But now I view all the company's one off capital losses as non adjustable ...

Whether it was fines or a victim of fraud or any other reason for a one off capital loss that doesn't affect the income stream we all don't adjust for these events so why should we adjust the price with a capital loss one off event such as payout to shareholders...

I have found in the past that dividends don't trigger sell signals in a healthy environment...if they do then Mr Market takes the view that the company could be paying out too much.. A no growth company usually display high dividends with sell signals these unadjusted sell signals are usually genuine as the high yielding low growth company looses its attractiveness and investor momentum for a few weeks after going Ex Div

But each to their own..that why there's an adjustment option box

[winner69]

Through lack of interest I have stopped reading all the negative news about,China,Greece,Europe,USA,Aussie mining etc.

Just for you percy
http://www.smh.com.au/money/investing/just-another-brick-in-the-markets-wall-of-worry-20151001-gjyqrz.html

Main point is -

The sharemarket loves a good worry. The best bull runs climb what has been called a wall of worry. They carry on irrespective of whatever the economic challenge, real or imagined, is lobbed before them.

It's when the market runs out of things to worry about that you need to, well, worry. It's in trouble then because complacency about realistic valuations has set in.

[tim23]

I still reckon the reverse mortgage business and Harmoney share give this stock growth appeal plus a reliable dividend, perfect in my book!

[trader_jackson]

I still reckon the reverse mortgage business and Harmoney share give this stock growth appeal plus a reliable dividend, perfect in my book!

Couldn't agree more! Fantastic stock still at a bargain price

[sb9]

Another solid day by the looks of it, looks like worm has turned corner. Bring on $1.20, what does the TA say hoop?

[winner69]

Another solid day by the looks of it, looks like worm has turned corner. Bring on $1.20, what does the TA say hoop?

Probably heading back to 140 in the short term

Jeff tout how good this business is and hype it up and that 160 possible early next year

[pierre]

With a fully imputed gross dividend yield of 10.4% and a 12 months TD rate of 3.7% it's surprising more people aren't buying the bank instead of depositing funds with it.

[axe]

Probably heading back to 140 in the short term

Jeff tout how good this business is and hype it up and that 160 possible early next year

Yahoo says EMA200 is 1.17. Is it good HNZ crossed and went to 1.19? Some charty people here could draw somethings to illustrate.

In the mean time I will listen to this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eNBM17tkjI :)

[winner69]

With a fully imputed gross dividend yield of 10.4% and a 12 months TD rate of 3.7% it's surprising more people aren't buying the bank instead of depositing funds with it.

Compared to a TD of 3.7% (pre tax) getting 6% pretax or say 4% after tax would be terrific

HNZ divie at least 8 cents plus imp credits this coming year - heck could pay $2 for HNZ and get that 4% return eh

What's share price today?

[nextbigthing]

Compared to a TD of 3.7% (pre tax) getting 6% pretax or say 4% after tax would be terrific

HNZ divie at least 8 cents plus imp credits this coming year - heck could pay $2 for HNZ and get that 4% return eh

What's share price today?

Looks like Winner's back in a big way.

[percy]

Today's sp of $1.19 is very pleasing, for those of us who took the DRP shares at $1.11.

[winner69]

Yahoo says EMA200 is 1.17. Is it good HNZ crossed and went to 1.19? Some charty people here could draw somethings to illustrate.

In the mean time I will listen to this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eNBM17tkjI :)

Breakout!
Breakout!
Breakout!
Breakout!
Go, go, go


Love those lyrics - so simple but so meaningful

You reckon 140 by end of month or for the patient by the ASM?

[trader_jackson]

Nice bounce these last two days, people have clearly been taking advantage of the heartland being part of one of "Briscoes famous 50% off sales"... About time this bounce happened.

I think it will progress into the high $1.20's and then after a great announcement at the AGM, onwards and upwards into the $1.40's (note: this is pure speculation)

[winner69]

Nice bounce these last two days, people have clearly been taking advantage of the heartland being part of one of "Briscoes famous 50% off sales"... About time this bounce happened.

I think it will progress into the high $1.20's and then after a great announcement at the AGM, onwards and upwards into the $1.40's (note: this is pure speculation)


"Briscoes famous 50% off sales"..

Heck that says HNZ full price is say $2.30

Liking this more and more

Nice one TJ

With Foo Fighters and Briscoes on the case the omens are good .....BREAK OUT to $2.30 it is

[winner69]

Any flag poles likely Xerof?

[Crackity]

Important measurements for mini-ramps.
It's pretty important that you generalize the diminsions of your mini-ramp so you know where it'll fit the best (backyard, garage, etc.). You should definitely worry about the length, width, and height!
Length: To calculate the length you need to add up all the individual lengths of the flatbottom, the transitions, and the decks. It's highly recommended to add at least 2' for the decks, and as much flatbottom that you can fit up to 8'. The transition portion will pretty much take care of itself after you've chosen a transition profile radius.

[Hoop]

Another solid day by the looks of it, looks like worm has turned corner. Bring on $1.20, what does the TA say hoop?

The chart has been a shocker for most of the year but there is signs of life as HNZ is trying to break out of its downtrend channel..nearly there...It needs this channel break out to confirm the 117 bull bear line break... this helps to confirm the recent rally is not the sucker variety...so far so good the rally is creating a higher high and higher low and a primary up trend is being created and the 106c low point is looking more likely to be the bottom of the cycle..
The only worry is some TA indicators are not firing Stoch and Williams% are diverging (not on chart) and I would have thought MACD would be a lot higher considering the good price rally.
Chart not adjusted for Ex dividend

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/HNZ%2012102015.png (http://s458.photobucket.com/user/Hoop_1/media/HNZ%2012102015.png.html)

[winner69]

Breakout!
Breakout!
Breakout!
Breakout!
Go, go, go




Love those lyrics - so simple but so meaningful

You reckon 140 by end of month or for the patient by the ASM?

Breakout! it is - 130 beckons ..... then 140 sooner than later

[Hoop]

Breakout! it is - 130 beckons ..... then 140 sooner than later

Yep...125 is the next hurdle

[sb9]

Thanks Hoop for loading the chart.

[sb9]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/271674

Just been posted on NZX, thoughts from those are around long enough to know about MTF..

[winner69]

Great news and sticking it to Turners (150 v 115 must e tempting fo take)

Makes HNZ bigger and wow look at all those other opportunities by working together with the mtf people

A reminder - HNZ never overpay and above all they always do what they say they will do.

This will put a rocket under share price ....may 140 by end of week

[Master98]

HNZ stated their interests in MTF one year ago until now be forced to give a higher offer reflect the HNZ board slow reacting to market and show the management difficult to make a quality acquisition.

[belted galloway]

Will be interesting to see the markets reaction. Although this was to be expected; no one can say this is a surprise.

Although what's happening with the court case? That may explain the caveat on appropriate due diligence.

I look forward to any reaction/counter by Turners, they will certainly be displeased with this.

[iceman]

HNZ stated their interests in MTF one year ago until now be forced to give a higher offer reflect the HNZ board slow reacting to market and show the management difficult to make a quality acquisition.

There is no way they can make a full takeover offer until the outcome of the court case, due end of November, is known. It would be totally irresponsible of the Board to make a take over offer with that hanging over them.

This partial offer is solely to try and stop Turners from getting a blocking stake. Game on !

[artemis]

Funny choice of words - "more fulsome due diligence". Fulsome has 2 very different meanings, neither of which fits this context.

[trader_jackson]

Just a stepping stone for a bigger announcement to be made at the AGM :cool:

[percy]

Nice seeing HNZ throwing a hand grenade into the mix.
MTF was formed at a time when motor vehicle dealers had trouble arranging finance for customers.[A very long time ago.]
To be a shareholder in MTF you need to be an "originator", that is either a motor vehicle dealer,or a MTF franchisee.A lot of dealers would now days, most probably prefer to have their money invested in their own business,and not have the possible liability of MTF shares.For MTF shareholders, it will be to their advantage of having the strength on HNZ backing their hire purchase agreements.HNZ will also provide them with "more product" to sell. HNZ wll have access to cheaper funding.A lot of MTF dealers will be happier having HNZ ownership of MTF rather than their opposition Turners.
For HNZ it offers a nice tidy bolt on in a sector they know well.MTF have some very substantial dealers.
At present time we know the possible liability MTF have with the Commerce Commission,over the "Sportszone" case will be resolved on the 10th and 11th when MTF's appeal is heard.

[trader_jackson]

I just hope not to much of a bidding war between Turners and HNZ doesn't breakout, otherwise it could turn into an "expensive operation" for the 'winner'... Has anyone worked out at a price of $1.50 a share HNZ is valuing MTF at (eg indicative P/E and other ratios)?

[percy]

I just hope not to much of a bidding war between Turners and HNZ doesn't breakout, otherwise it could turn into an "expensive operation" for the 'winner'... Has anyone worked out at a price of $1.50 a share HNZ is valuing MTF at (eg indicative P/E and other ratios)?

One has deep pockets,the other does not.!
Last years MTF annual report showed the NTA to be over $1.60 from memory.

[janner]

One has deep pockets,the other does not.!.

Concisely put Perc..

With me having sold half of both ..

[percy]

Concisely put Perc..

With me having sold half of both ..

Well I sold all of one,but none of the other.!!! lol.

[winner69]

I just hope not to much of a bidding war between Turners and HNZ doesn't breakout, otherwise it could turn into an "expensive operation" for the 'winner'... Has anyone worked out at a price of $1.50 a share HNZ is valuing MTF at (eg indicative P/E and other ratios)?

Now don't be lazy jacko

Last 1/2 report
http://www.mtf.co.nz/pdf/investors/MTF_2015_half_year_report.pdf

Your homework for tonite is to look through

Report back tomorrow morning if $1.50 is a good price

And

Do you see any fish hooks in the alan e sheet if a takeover goes ahead

[winner69]

Prob had good intelligence that Turners were getting a good response ....so piss them off with a counter 'realistic offer' now.

If turners were after a bit of green washing they be disappointed

[janner]

Well I sold all of one,but none of the other.!!! lol.

One may have enough to block the other :-))))

Stalemate.. Or Checkmate ???

[kizame]

I just hope not to much of a bidding war between Turners and HNZ doesn't breakout, otherwise it could turn into an "expensive operation" for the 'winner'... Has anyone worked out at a price of $1.50 a share HNZ is valuing MTF at (eg indicative P/E and other ratios)?

I think maybe more opportunistic by Turners,they would know all about HNZ s interest in purchasing,so why compete when it would stretch them financially. It will be interesting,I like a bit of corporate activity,especially when you own both.

[percy]

One may have enough to block the other :-))))

Stalemate.. Or Checkmate ???

Well rereading HNZ's announcement,I hardly think Turners offer will gain any traction.
I would think any "dealers" who have accepted Turner's offer will have no trouble "changing their minds" in the cool off period.!! It looks to me HNZ have nipped it in the bud.
So I see Turners have three options.
1] Leave their offer as is, in the hope they get some acceptances.
2] Walk away.
3] Increase their offer.This would mean they have a lot more "capital" at risk.
As I see it Turners are in no position to make a full takeover offer,and matching HNZ's $1.50 offer may be beyond their means.

[winner69]

Trader-Jackson

In doing your homework maybe just come up with 1) what you think MTF is worth and 2) what value HNZ sees in using the MTF network to generate new business

We'll forget about the synergistic benefits at the moment

[Baa_Baa]

Holders will no doubt be encouraged with the HNZ move on MTF, good on you, and against a technical breakout upwards it's nice to see some good news (and good timing by HNZ) .. if someone was still talking to someone else we'd be hearing them uttering endless "EPS accretive" suppositions, which have thus far not entered the discussion. But when will we see HNZ behaving like a bank instead of a finance company? Both banks and finance companies are vulnerable at what might be a topped out economy heading towards leaner times, but finance companies as we know, get slaughtered if the markets turn to custard.

[percy]

Holders will no doubt be encouraged with the HNZ move on MTF, good on you, and against a technical breakout upwards it's nice to see some good news (and good timing by HNZ) .. if someone was still talking to someone else we'd be hearing them uttering endless "EPS accretive" suppositions, which have thus far not entered the discussion. But when will we see HNZ behaving like a bank instead of a finance company? Both banks and finance companies are vulnerable at what might be a topped out economy heading towards leaner times, but finance companies as we know, get slaughtered if the markets turn to custard.

May pay to google; KMPC's Banking Quarterly.Latest one was very positive for NZ banks.

[Baa_Baa]

May pay to google; KMPC's Banking Quarterly.Latest one was very positive for NZ banks.

A quick response, loaded with expensive consultancy Percy, but answer the question if you will .. the question was, "when will we see HNZ behaving like a bank instead of a finance company?" If MTF was a truly good buy for a 'bank', they would have been contested by the major banks. I think the majors might have no interest in MTF for good reasons. Let's think this through before assuming it's the best outcome for HNZ shareholders, and blowing off a comment with some consultancy report probably paid for by a bank, or banks.

[percy]

A quick response, loaded with expensive consultancy Percy, but answer the question if you will .. the question was, "when will we see HNZ behaving like a bank instead of a finance company?" If MTF was a truly good buy for a 'bank', they would have been contested by the major banks. I think the majors might have no interest in MTF for good reasons. Let's think this through before assuming it's the best outcome for HNZ shareholders, and blowing off a comment with some consultancy report probably paid for by a bank, or banks.

Was only trying to be helpful.!

[winner69]

A quick response, loaded with expensive consultancy Percy, but answer the question if you will .. the question was, "when will we see HNZ behaving like a bank instead of a finance company?" If MTF was a truly good buy for a 'bank', they would have been contested by the major banks. I think the majors might have no interest in MTF for good reasons. Let's think this through before assuming it's the best outcome for HNZ shareholders, and blowing off a comment with some consultancy report probably paid for by a bank, or banks.

Baabaa - when Heartland applied to become a BANK the well respected CFO at the time said it was 'really only a marketing ploy'

It was to give them greater degree of respectability in the eyes of depositors etc ..... and of course lower funding costs

At the end of the day they essentially remain a 'finance company' ....but as a BANK subject to a greater degree of scrutiny from the banking authorities

[Baa_Baa]

Was only trying to be helpful.!

I know you were, no offence intended Percy. Banks, which HNZ is because it's registered as a bank, have three pillars of business .. Lending, Deposits and Payments .. in that order. Acquiring MTF is of course about growing the lending base, it's about buying the book (or a stake in the book), but it's acquiring a stake in tier 2 lending (finance) at best with mid-tier risk profile, at best, but often worse. Major banks don't avoid this stuff, but they don't normally buy the source of the borrowers, they just load the loans according to the risk profiles and maintain direct relationships.

HNZ advocates imho need to look deeper into the EPS accretive aspects of HNZ taking a position in MTF, which is not solid in it's own right, and balance that against bank-grade risk profiling. This will help to identify whether HNZ is moving progressively and profitably towards being a bank, or whether it is progressing a finance company, and what the risk to shareholders is. Jmho.

[trader_jackson]

Baabaa - when Heartland applied to become a BANK the well respected CFO at the time said it was 'really only a marketing ploy'

It was to give them greater degree of respectability in the eyes of depositors etc ..... and of course lower funding costs

At the end of the day they essentially remain a 'finance company' ....but as a BANK subject to a greater degree of scrutiny from the banking authorities

So essentially Baa_Baa, and maybe I have this wrong, but this is how I view it with my 'simplistic' glasses on, it gets the funding a bank would get, but has the growth of a finance company?

With the NZ economy fairly stabled (and expected to remain so), and unlike the bigger banks, HNZ could be argued to have much much higher rates of growth, whilst enjoying the cheap money traditionally only "banks" have been able to get hold of... how is this now a great thing? Really should have a much higher PE (and therefore share price) than where it currently is to reflect this impressive growth opportunity...

And yes winner69 I can't confirm if I'll get the homework done with so much detail, but I'll try:t_up:

[Baa_Baa]

Baabaa - when Heartland applied to become a BANK the well respected CFO at the time said it was 'really only a marketing ploy'

It was to give them greater degree of respectability in the eyes of depositors etc ..... and of course lower funding costs

At the end of the day they essentially remain a 'finance company' ....but as a BANK subject to a greater degree of scrutiny from the banking authorities

Yes, I know. Which is why I think shareholders need to ask themselves the hard questions.

[tim23]

I think MTF would be a bit small for the major banks however could HNZ itself become a target?

[trader_jackson]

I think MTF would be a bit small for the major banks however could HNZ itself become a target?

I have heard people speculating this... but probably a while off
... but it would be nice to have at least one 'big' bank that isn't government owned to be a nz run and owned company

[Baa_Baa]

So essentially Baa_Baa, and maybe I have this wrong, but this is how I view it with my 'simplistic' glasses on, it gets the funding a bank would get, but has the growth of a finance company?

With the NZ economy fairly stabled (and expected to remain so), and unlike the bigger banks, HNZ could be argued to have much much higher rates of growth, whilst enjoying the cheap money traditionally only "banks" have been able to get hold of... how is this now a great thing? Really should have a much higher PE than where it currently is to reflect this impressive growth opportunity...

And yes winner69 I can't confirm if I'll get the homework done with so much detail, but I'll try:t_up:

Eternal optimism is no compensation for quality thought and due diligence, although your enthusiasm is infectious ;). Just listen to what some have to say and learn from their responses, there are plenty here who have the experience to debate this and others will be well informed by it.

[Baa_Baa]

Shareholders when considering some of the T20 actions might also ponder why the SP dropped a cent today. You need to get on top of reality with HNZ, there's been too much focus (imo) on the SP going to the moon in unrealistic timeframes. The TA says breakout but the FA has a new thing to consider, a stake in MTF. Here they are announcing a potentially EPS accretive acquisition and the big money says .. yeah nah.

[Snow Leopard]

Kuala Lumpur = Muddy Estuary
Thanks for bringing this [back] to our attention percy.

It is all clear as mud to me what the true position of MTF actually is.

What game are TNR's playing? The MTF shareholders or board can prevent them going over 10%. (Have I got that right at least?)

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

So now HNZ has expressed an "interest" in spending nearly $7m for 20% "subject to completing initial due diligence satisfactory to it".

But wait there is more...

"interested in an acquisition of all of the shares of MTF, subject to completing more fulsome due diligence and reaching agreement with the MTF Board on an acquisition process".

So don't sell to Turners for $1.15 because we may buy them for $1.50 or not.

And who says finance is not fun? :D

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[pierre]

Shareholders when considering some of the T20 actions might also ponder why the SP dropped a cent today. You need to get on top of reality with HNZ, there's been too much focus (imo) on the SP going to the moon in unrealistic timeframes. The TA says breakout but the FA has a new thing to consider, a stake in MTF. Here they are announcing a potentially EPS accretive acquisition and the big money says .. yeah nah.

Actually, the big money has said nothing today - the announcement wasn't published until 5:28pm. Tomorrow will be interesting.

Bonne chance a tous.

Pierre

[Snow Leopard]

Actually, the big money has said nothing today - the announcement wasn't published until 5:28pm. Tomorrow will be interesting.

Bonne chance a tous.

Pierre

Could be a leak from earlier today - did you think of that?
Could have leaked days ago - did Baa Baa think of that?

Tomorrow trader_jackson will present his homework and Baa Baa will, hopefully, have recovered from whatever it is ails him.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[pierre]

Could be a leak from earlier today - did you think of that?
Could have leaked days ago - did Baa Baa think of that?

Tomorrow trader_jackson will present his homework and Baa Baa will, hopefully, have recovered from whatever it is ails him.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Leaks? Really? In the NZX market? Surely not!
Jusqu'a demain
Pierre

[Snow Leopard]

Leaks? Really? In the NZX market? Surely not!
Jusqu'a demain
Pierre

Bien sur, je pense que c'est tres improbable.
Mais, qu'est ce que je sais.


Il ya beaucoup de peuple Francais dans l'est de Nouvelle-Zelande?

Meilleurs voeux
Paper Tiger

PS Apa kabar?

[winner69]

Kuala Lumpur = Muddy Estuary

So now HNZ has expressed an "interest" in spending nearly $7m for 20% "subject to completing initial due diligence satisfactory to it".

But wait there is more...

"interested in an acquisition of all of the shares of MTF, subject to completing more fulsome due diligence and reaching agreement with the MTF Board on an acquisition process".

So don't sell to Turners for $1.15 because we may buy them for $1.50 or not.

And who says finance is not fun? :D

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

That's exactly what it says PT

Small commitment of $7m at this stage - piddling amount to have a bit of fun.


But lets not forget the big picture. Heartland obviously want MTF so this is just the start.

Heck what will growing the loan book by a few hundred million in an EPS accretive acquisition that also increases ROE do to the share price.

The time to be buying Heartland is now - before it all happens and the share price gets its inevitable boost. May never be $1.20 again

[Harvey Specter]

Well rereading HNZ's announcement,I hardly think Turners offer will gain any traction.But a bird in the hand ($1.15) is worth more than two in the bush ($1.50 subject to due diligence).

[iceman]

But a bird in the hand ($1.15) is worth more than two in the bush ($1.50 subject to due diligence).

That is very true HS, particularly with the uncertainty of the outcome from the Sportzone case. But I think HNZ have done a good job and as much as they can for now, to decrease the risk/annoyance of Turners getting a blocking stake.

For the car dealers, I am sure HNZ is a much more exciting partner in MTF than their competitor Turners

[RTM]

Don't Turners potentially do quite well by throwing in the towel and selling any shares they may have acquired already to HNZ ?

[iceman]

Don't Turners potentially do quite well by throwing in the towel and selling any shares they may have acquired already to HNZ ?

Well I suppose they could by selling the small holding they had in MTF before they made the recent offer. But now with HNZ having made an alternative offer, if I understand this correctly, any SH that may have accepted Turners offer have a "cooling off period" in which they can change their mind.

[pierre]

Bien sur, je pense que c'est tres improbable.
Mais, qu'est ce que je sais.


Il ya beaucoup de peuple Francais dans l'est de Nouvelle-Zelande?

Meilleurs voeux
Paper Tiger

PS Apa kabar?


Im denda terima kasih.

A votre santé.

What would we do without Google Translate?
Pierre

[Beagle]

Suddenly HNZ are able to value MTF notwithstanding the fact that we don't know the outcome of the supreme court decision which could fundamentally alter the value of MFT ?
How is that being prudent with shareholders money ?

[Harvey Specter]

Suddenly HNZ are able to value MTF notwithstanding the fact that we don't know the outcome of the supreme court decision which could fundamentally alter the value of MFT ?
How is that being prudent with shareholders money ?The offer is conditional on DD (ie the court case) unlike Turners which is unconditional. Basically they have floated a high offer out there to stop holders taking Turners offer, knowing they can reduce the offer if the court case is unfavorable. If they didn't do this, Turners would get a blocking holding and it would be all over.