HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[Master98]

Today's announcement.Result will be reported 28th August.
Bank licence;"Heartland expects that a decision will be avaliable by a date in November of this year." Interesting, they appear to be further down the track then I thought.Trajectory should see the SP close the gap to NTA.Further trajectory will see the SP at a premium to NTA,while a divie will greatly increase rate of the trajectory .

I can't see, they just do what shuld do with no promising, as they said" uncertian".

[percy]

Uncertain,no promises, but not two or three years down the track for an answer.

[Master98]

yeah, shorter pain better than longer pain.

[percy]

yeah, shorter pain better than longer pain.

Very much so.Very positive in my view.Means they are on track to achieving their objectives .

[Hoop]

Does anyone think we will see a share price of 50c again?


No. Full steam ahead.Time for a good old TOOT TOOT.!!!!!!


Nope, No and Absolutely NOT. discl: hold and buying from time to time so this doesn't become another aussie bank. Bring on the KiwiBank IPO!

TOOT TOoooooooot.

OK guys its at 51c this morning and has broken it's up trend...whats happened??

Disc: recent buy in :p

[percy]

TOOT TOoooooooot.

OK guys its at 51c this morning and has broken it's up trend...whats happened??

Disc: recent buy in :p


Well dammed if I know.Thought the announcement that they had applied for a bank licence and would know by november would have sent the share price over 60cents.!!
You can do one of two things Hoop;either redraw your trend lines or buy enough shares to get the SP back into trajectory.
Looks to me as there were keen sellers and lack of dedicated buyers. I would think they are an excellent buy at these prices.
Buyers now ;12,000 at 53cents.
470,858 at52 cents .

[K1W1G0LD]

[QUOTE=percy;378864]Well dammed if I know.Thought the announcement that they had applied for a bank licence and would know by november would have sent the share price over 60cents.!!
You can do one of two things Hoop;either redraw your trend lines or buy enough shares to get the SP back into trajectory.
Looks to me as there were keen sellers and lack of dedicated buyers. I would think they are an excellent buy at these prices.

Might have something to do with a sharemarket report on Stuff business website this morning guys which reported a brokers consensus that HNZ profit would be approx $15.9 million for full year. A report which has now been change/removed , funny that! Might have been a stuff up??

[percy]

[QUOTE=percy;378864]Well dammed if I know.Thought the announcement that they had applied for a bank licence and would know by november would have sent the share price over 60cents.!!
You can do one of two things Hoop;either redraw your trend lines or buy enough shares to get the SP back into trajectory.
Looks to me as there were keen sellers and lack of dedicated buyers. I would think they are an excellent buy at these prices.

Might have something to do with a sharemarket report on Stuff business website this morning guys which reported a brokers consensus that HNZ profit would be approx $15.9 million for full year. A report which has now been change/removed , funny that! Might have been a stuff up??

Thanks K1W1GOLD.
3.11pm and buyer want 115,000 at 53cents.[I suspect Hoop]

[Lizard]

Might have something to do with a sharemarket report on Stuff business website this morning guys which reported a brokers consensus that HNZ profit would be approx $15.9 million for full year. A report which has now been change/removed , funny that! Might have been a stuff up??

What's wrong with $15.9m? I only have $15m (underlying) in my forecast... just think it can increase quite a bit from there in FY13.

[percy]

What's wrong with $15.9m? I only have $15m (underlying) in my forecast... just think it can increase quite a bit from there in FY13.

I think you are on the money again/still Lizard.The fourth quarter result will give us a guide to the future trajectory.

[percy]

Well I see HNZ at 55cents today.
Charts looking better I hope Hoop.?

[Joshuatree]

Mmmmh how much downside will there be if they don't get the banking license ?

[percy]

Mmmmh how much downside will there be if they don't get the banking license ?

The banking licence.Should they fail I would expect the SP to drop approx 5 cents for a day or two,until HNZ/Reserve Bank give reasons for decline of licence.HNZ would then advise the market what steps they are taking to fix those concerns and give a time-table to when they will re-apply.SP will then readjust.
Granting of licence I would expect the SP to under react for a day or two, then move upwards.[trajactory]
The whole point of the bank licence is for HNZ to pay less for the money it borrows.They do not have any trouble attracting funds at present.In fact they went through Govt guarantee with too much cash.Better with the licence,but not the end of the world without it.
What I find of most importance is the fact they have prepared the company to the stage where they are in the position to apply for the licence.The company must be in great shape for them to take the final step in applying for the licence.

[percy]

Thy don't have one now and I doubt many who hold (or are looking to buy) expect a B.L. to make much difference in the short term.

Exactly.Well put.

[Arbitrage]

Hopefully the ASB result will flow on to other players in the finance industry including Heartland.

[Balance]

TOOT TOoooooooot.

OK guys its at 51c this morning and has broken it's up trend...whats happened??

Disc: recent buy in :p


It's a cliche but shares do not go up or down in a straight line.

Especially in this case when there's a quick 5% to 10% profit to be made from buying Dodgie Georgie's fire sale stocks at 52 cents and doing a quick flick.

That stock is being absorbed.

[Hoop]

Well I see HNZ at 55cents today.
Charts looking better I hope Hoop.?

Yeah Percy charts not too bad ..the odd isolated short term sell signal interwoven within the longer term positives. HNZ seems to be having a breather after its previous run up...
That was a strange intraday drop (breaks) the other day... I couldn't figure it out on the day....http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-304.gif....With hindsight, on the simple chart it's got that "shake out" (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/trading/shakeout.php) signature look about it...what ever it was it sure got my attention.

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/HNZ15082012.gif

[percy]

..the odd isolated short term sell signal interwoven within the longer term positives.

Yes I see it the same way;HNZ on a gentle rising trajectory.

[Joshuatree]

$15 million profit a big drop on the $20 to $24 million forecast but the s/p was alot higher too back then.

[Balance]

It's a cliche but shares do not go up or down in a straight line.

Especially in this case when there's a quick 5% to 10% profit to be made from buying Dodgie Georgie's fire sale stocks at 52 cents and doing a quick flick.

That stock is being absorbed.

Traders' stock still being absorbed but market now 56 cents bid.

Still 29 cents to go to reach NTA - 52% potential upside.

Isn't it refreshing to have the stench of Georgie's smelly presence on the share register and in the company gone?

[percy]

Traders' stock still being absorbed but market now 56 cents bid.

Still 29 cents to go to reach NTA - 52% potential upside.

Isn't it refreshing to have the stench of Georgie's smelly presence on the share register and in the company gone?

Well I am looking forward to ?years time when it will be trading at 2 or 3 times NTA.

[Balance]

Well I am looking forward to ?years time when it will be trading at 2 or 3 times NTA.

Need a bank licence for that kind of valuation so let's see what happens in November.

[percy]

Well done HNZ>
Financial target met.
Guidance achieved.
Balance sheet strengthened.
2nd half profit of $14.7mil means they are going forward nicely.
Guidance and dividend policy to be announced at AGM.
More than I hoped for,so I very pleased.

[K1W1G0LD]

Exceeds expectations and beats the brokers consensus by a mile.Looks like they're well on the way to becoming a Bank.

Heartland New Zealand Limited (Heartland) (NZX : HNZ) today announced a net profit after tax (NPAT) of $23.6m for the full year ended 30 June 2012, up $16.5m from $7.1m for the previous year ended 30 June 2011

[K1W1G0LD]

Received 2 emails looks like they've revised their $23.6 m to $24.2 M.

[Xerof]

Take out the one-off tax credit of 9.6m and it is fairly skinny for a finance company return on assets.

To say the impaired et al ratio will improve due the total book size growing is laughable - in $'s that number is sticky, as is 'investment property'

Not impressed, but no doubt the blue-eyed brigade will take it higher and assist the recent new entrants to exit at a nice profit

[winner69]

Not impressed, but no doubt the blue-eyed brigade will take it higher and assist the recent new entrants to exit at a nice profit


You cynic and heathen zerof ......percy won't be buying you a drink next time you catch up

Of course it is a great result ....... 2 times NTA by Xmas

[Lizard]

As I read the note at the bottom of page 31, it seems they are expecting to claim the entire $28.5m of losses that is the maximum they can claim from RECL (PGC) at the end of the 5 year period (in 2016).

[winner69]

Zerof what you make of the HNZ cash flow statement - cash received from operating $224m less cash applied to operating activities $227m .......gives negative $3m and no tax paid in the outgoings

Might have to delve deeper .....this was just the first glance at the accounts .....cash flow always the first stop .....rest can often be bull****

[winner69]

Good presentation though

[Balance]

Take out the one-off tax credit of 9.6m and it is fairly skinny for a finance company return on assets.

To say the impaired et al ratio will improve due the total book size growing is laughable - in $'s that number is sticky, as is 'investment property'

Not impressed, but no doubt the blue-eyed brigade will take it higher and assist the recent new entrants to exit at a nice profit

Agreed - very skinny indeed - ROE of 4% compares to the trading banks at all over 10%. Gives a good indication of what the upside potential is.

Underlying trend of margins, costs, profits, assets growth (half year by half year) - all positive.

Underlying operating profit trend is excellent - 100% improvement.

Unfortunately, still dealing with legacy issues and key risk and major negative is non-core property book of $104.7m now that $30m loss underwrite fully utilized.

So NTA = 88 cps with non-core property book = 27cps so NTA (worse case scenario with non-core property being worth zero) = 61 cps.

[Balance]

Zerof what you make of the HNZ cash flow statement - cash received from operating $224m less cash applied to operating activities $227m .......gives negative $3m and no tax paid in the outgoings

Might have to delve deeper .....this was just the first glance at the accounts .....cash flow always the first stop .....rest can often be bull****

Cannot look at a finance company or bank with a conventional cash flow analytical view - as cash is its stock in trade!

$37.4m into new finance receivables and lease vehicles are where HNZ has reinvested its free cash-flow.

[winner69]

Thanks balance for the enlightment

[Lizard]

Fortunately, $55m of that non-core property is now in property title with updated valuations and not just loans of indeterminate security - so unlikely to be written off to zero.

Overall, I still thought quality of loan book not as good as would like to see from their rating system, but at least overdues reduced.

I would hope for $23m NPAT after impairments next year, but some concern - as Balance suggests - re bigger impairments/property write-downs now that RECL liability has been fully utilised.

[Arbitrage]

Pity about the dividend. However i assume they are building towards that banking licence and trying to be as conservative as they can. Looking to the future, the results look good.

[percy]

Pity about the dividend. However i assume they are building towards that banking licence and trying to be as conservative as they can. Looking to the future, the results look good.

I have not yet given up hope of a divie.
They may/could announce a divie for Xmas at the AGM on 2/11/2112. That would be the icing on the cake.However you may be right,they are very conservative.

[Snow Leopard]

Not interested in a dividend for this year, bad use of cash.

Considering where they have come from then this is an encouraging result.

Rather surprised that the Tiger Secret Valuation Formula has produced a current value of $0.66.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[Lizard]

Rather surprised that the Tiger Secret Valuation Formula has produced a current value of $0.66.


:ohmy: Mine only says $0.65 (for now).

[Arbitrage]

the market today, which is always right, says $0.54 and dropping....

[Balance]

the market today, which is always right, says $0.54 and dropping....

So market was right when RBD was trading at 58 cents? Or Diligent when it was trading at 12 cents? Or Telecom when it was trading at over $6?

I think the market is right today on HNZ however - the results had no positive surprises and there's real concerns about the non-core legacy property assets. Will be a while before those concerns are gone.

"The share market is a popularity contest in the short term but is a weighing machine in the long term."

[Snoopy]

1/ EBIT to interest expense > 1.2

EBIT is not listed as that, so I have had to improvise. On p10 (Interim
Statements of Comprehensive Income) we find the 'Interest Income'
figure and I have subtracted from that the selling and administration
costs also on p10.

EBIT = $101.770m-$35.691m= $66.079m

Interest expense is listed as $62.64m.

So (EBIT)/(Interest Expense)= ($66.079)/($62.64)= 1.05 < 1.2

Result: FAIL TEST


Updating for the full year result

EBIT (high estimate) = $205.148m-$65.547m= $139.601m

Interest expense is listed as $121.502m.

So (EBIT)/(Interest Expense)= ($139.602)/($121.502)= 1.15 < 1.20

Result: FAIL TEST but an improvement from the HY2012 position.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

Criterion 5/ Minimum Equity Contribution:
Tier 1 Risk Share Lending (basic equity capital and disclosed reserves) > 20%,
Tier 2 Risk share lending (this applies to undisclosed debts, and provisions against bad debts) > 30%.

There is no mention of Tier 1 or Tier 2 in the Heartland HY2012 interim report. I am not sure how to apply this test. Perhaps someone will confirm or correct my opinion?

I think the loans have to be grouped into both 'Tier 1' and 'Tier 2' categories. Once this is done then enough equity capital has to be set aside to cover 20% of the gross lending value of 'Tier 1' loans and
likewise 30% of the 'Tier 2' loans. Add these two required amounts of capital together and the figure should not exceed the actual underlying capital on the company balance sheet.


The 'best case' scenario is that all loans are Tier 1. $1,985.55m of loans are outstanding. 20% of that figure is:

0.2 x $1,985.55m = $397.0m

From p3, Heartland has total equity of $360m, which is insufficient no matter what the tier classification of the loans. Even if $20m of profit is booked to boost shareholder capital, there would still be a shortfall of capital of $17m assuming no growth in the loan portfolio.

Result: FAIL TEST


Once again there is no mention of Tier 1 or Tier 2 in the Heartland FY2012 report.

The 'best case' scenario is that all loans are Tier 1. $1,939.29m of loans are outstanding. 20% of that figure is:

0.2 x $1,939.29m = $387.9m

Heartland has total equity of $374.8m which is insufficient no matter what the tier classification of the loans.

Result: FAIL TEST

However the numbers are moving in the right direction. Heartland are certainly doing the right thing by retaining their earnings and not paying out a dividend.
Ironically the small reduction in the size of their loan book is helping too.

However the fact that the overall business is downsizing does mean less customer activity. Those shareholders looking for a step change in earnings are likely to be disappointed IMO.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

I guess the gearing ratio would be one important numerical foundation of a company. So how does HNZ stack up?

-------------

Criterion 3/ Gearing Ratio (Total non-risk share liabilities to total non risk tangible assets) < 90%

Once again we look at p12 ('Interim Statements of Financial Position') where we can find the underlying debt of the company: $34,808,000.

To calculate the total underlying company assets we have to (at least) subtract the finance receivables from the total company assets. I would argue that you should also subtract the problem 'Investment Properties' and the unspecified 'Investments' from that total:

$2,380.54m - ($2,075.21m +$58.08m + $24.31) = $222.94m

By contrast the Vehicles on lease should be readily saleable so for this exercise I would count those as non-risk assets.

We are then asked to remove the intangible assets from the equation as well:

$222.94m - $21.98m = $200.96m

Now we have the information needed to calculate the information asked for:

$34.8m/$200.96m= 17.3% < 90%

Result: PASS TEST



The underlying debt of the company according to the full year statement of financial position is: $33,802,000m.

To calculate the total underlying company assets we have to (at least) subtract the finance receivables from the total company assets. I would argue that you should also subtract the problem 'Investment Properties' and the unspecified 'Investments' from that total:

$2,348.69m - ($2,078.28m +$55.50m + $24.22) = $190.09m

We are then asked to remove the intangible assets from the equation as well:

$190.09m - $23.00m = $167.09m

Now we have the information needed to calculate the underlying company debt net of all their lending activities:

$33.8m/$167.09m= 20.2% < 90%

Result: PASS TEST

I note that the relative debt has increased since the half year reporting date. However it is still well within acceptable levels. I would the debt position to worsen during the year because of all the deferred branch transformation expenditure that was shunted into the FY2013 year. It will pay to keep an eye on this figure.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

According to 'investorwords' (www.investorwords.com) the equity ratio is defined as:

=(Total Equity)/(Total Assets)

Using numbers from the Heartland HY2012 report dated 31-12-2012, page 11

= $360.2m/$2380.5m = 15.1%


Updating this number for the full year

Equity Ratio = (Total Equity)/(Total Assets)

Using numbers from the Heartland FY2012

= $374.8m/$2348.1m = 16.0%

This is a slight improvement on the half year position, achieved by both shrinking the loan book and not paying out any dividend from profits.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

I have been covering these hurdles out of my original order to better match the flow of this thread. But there is one more bankers test that HNZ must face.

4/ Single new customer group exposure (as a percentage of shareholder funds) <10%

I can't find any information in the Heartland HY2012 interim report on customer concentration. Since one of the objectives of merging all the entities that formed Heartland together was to reduce the concentration of risk, I don't think it likely that a single customer has 10% or more of the balance of the loans outstanding.

The HNZ interim report does say that post merger, 40% of loans are now in the Canterbury region (note 11). That might mean regional volatility need be considered in future.

Result: PROBABLE PASS (interim report has insufficient information)

Customer concentration is of course an indirect measure of potential risk. Of more interest perhaps is real risk.

Interesting reading from Note 32C in the Full Year 2012 accounts.

There is a large jump in Grade 6 categorized loans. Grade 6 is the 'monitor' category up from $93.269m to $183.814m. Grade 6 is the jargon used by Heartland when a loan is on the cusp of going bad. Obviously these loans have not gone bad at this point, and that should be emphasized. Nevertheless if even half of those loans did go bad it would wipe out a whole years profits. This is something that should make Heartland shareholders cautious. A call for new capital from shareholders is now officially an 'on the horizon possibility', even though Heartland have only said so indirectly in this obtuse way.

SNOOPY

[Snow Leopard]

...There is a large jump in Grade 6 categorized loans. Grade 6 is the 'monitor' category up from $16.3m to $62.9m. Grade 6 is the jargon used by Heartland when a loan is on the cusp of going bad. Obviously these loans have not gone bad at this point, and that should be emphasized. Nevertheless if even half of those loans did go bad it would wipe out a whole years profits. This is something that should make Heartland shareholders cautious. A call for new capital from shareholders is now officially an 'on the horizon possibility', even though Heartland have only said so indirectly in this obtuse way.

SNOOPY

I fail to see where you are getting these numbers or beliefs from.

There are $183.8M of Grade 6 loans and another $78.3M in grades 7-9 in the Judgement portfolio. Each grade has a % expectation of becoming a loss and the Grade 6 does not mean that "a loan is on the cusp of going bad", even with the name Monitor.

Further there are $28.3M in Active or lower categories of the Behavioural portfolio.

Read all of 32 and you will get a better feel for the state of the loans in terms of past due, impaired and provisions for impairment. Also you can find the total written-off.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[Snoopy]

I fail to see where you are getting these numbers or beliefs from.

There are $183.8M of Grade 6 loans and another $78.3M in grades 7-9 in the Judgement portfolio. Each grade has a % expectation of becoming a loss and the Grade 6 does not mean that "a loan is on the cusp of going bad", even with the name Monitor.

Further there are $28.3M in Active or lower categories of the Behavioural portfolio.

Read all of 32 and you will get a better feel for the state of the loans in terms of past due, impaired and provisions for impairment. Also you can find the total written-off.


PT I have read section 32 again and I do believe that my concerns are justified. Perhaps when I mentioned the phrase 'loan going bad' that has a connotation of 100% loss. That was not what I meant and was poor phrasing on my part. The 'judgment portfolio' represents business loans where there is an ongoing relationship with the client. The financial statement clearly states that new loans are made with security judged to be between 'Strong' (Grade 2) and 'Acceptable' (Grade 5). No new loans are made under 'Monitor' Grade 6. So it can be inferred that these loans have some risk of impairment, but have not yet been provided for on the books.

The other lower category of loans, Grade 7-9, will already to provided for to an extent in the accounts. That increase in 'Grade 6 ' loans represents are significant yet unaccounted for risk for HNZ.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

Gaze at these tables for long enough and it becomes clear that the securitisation measures were mostly just to allow space in case an unexpectedly large proportion (i.e. nearly all of the investors with maturities prior to the end of the guarantee) turned out to be only hanging in until expiry (after all, at that stage they could be perceived as safer than the bank, but with better rates!). I think from memory that later announcements have indicated that the reinvestment rate actually held up solidly and new investments rose, so the extra liquidity buffer provided by the securitised facility was probably not necessary. Having said that, in financial services, safety begets investor confidence and investor confidence begets safety. So there was no point risking any false rumours tipping things over at the last minute.


From the bottom of p12 of the 2012 financial statements:

"The Group enters into transactions whereby it transfers assets recognised on its Statements of Financial Position, but retains either all risks and rewards of the transferred assets or a portion of them. If all or substantially all risks and rewards are retained, then the transferred assets are not derecognised from the Statements of Financial Position. Transfers of assets with the retention of all or substantially all risks and rewards include, for example, securitised assets and repurchase transactions." (my bold emphasis)

So HNZ retains the downside risk for their sold off securitized assets after all?

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

I have had a conceptual problem with this question for a while, so this might be the time to lay the cards I have on the table, using Heartland as an example.

Criterion 3 shows that Heartland's core assets: offices staff and the tools they need to do their job, are quite conservatively financed with plenty of capital.

Criterion 5 shows that in relation to the business and home loans outstanding on the books, Heartland is if anything quite short of capital.

So, does Heartland have adequate capital or not?


Time to answer my own question. Heartland has more than enough capital ring-fenced in the accounts to operate their core office network. However their lending capital, from a finance company perspective, is still inadequate for the loan book as viewed from a shareholder risk perspective.

SNOOPY

.

[Snoopy]

2/ Liquidity buffer ratio (including bank lines) >10%

The hurdle setters don't specify, but I believe that this test is to provide an insight into how current liabilities are matched to current assets. It could be thought of as a 'stress test' on liquidity with a twelve-month time horizon.

From p12 (Interim Statements of Financial Position) we see HNZ has total borrowings of $1,985,551,000, made up principally of term deposits lodged with Heartland. Note 11 is meant to give a breakdown of these borrowings. Strangely there is no breakdown given of current and longer-term borrowings. Nevertheless Note 11 contains this tantalizing hint.

"On 2 August 2011, the Group entered an agreement with its securitisation facility provider to increase the MARAC ABCP Trust 1 securitisation facility by $100m to $300m, and to extend its maturity date to 8 August 2012."

This gives the impression of Heartland almost operating 'hand to mouth' with even this new banking syndicate agreement expiring within just a
year of being signed. To proceed further I can only assume that all funds deposited with Heartland, directly or indirectly (via securitisation) are 'current liabilities'.

This money has been on loaned to customers who want loans. These customers owe HNZ 'Finance Receivables' of $2,075,211,000. Again there is no breakdown as to what loans are current and longer term. Given:

1/ I understand 'liquidity' to be a balance between the maturity profile of current debenture holders VERSES
2/the loan periods associated with those on lent funds are unknown,

then my analysis comes to a full stop. Any ideas as to how to proceed from here, or even opinions on if I am on the right track, would be greatly appreciated.

Result: UNCERTAIN (due to lack of published loan data). But if almost all depositors have put their money with Heartland on a one year or less basis, then I am not encouraged.



Time to reevaluate liquidity.

HNZ has total borrowings of $1,939,489,000, made up principally of term deposits lodged with Heartland.

Note 24 is meant to give a breakdown of these borrowings. Once again there is no breakdown given of current and longer-term borrowings

The information given on the secularized facilities is as follows

"The Group has securitisation facilities in relation to the Trusts totalling $450.0 million. On 27 February 2012, the Group entered into an agreement with its securitisation facility provider to extend the maturity date of Heartland ABCP Trust 1 $300 million securitisation facility to 6 February 2013. On 19 December 2011, the Group entered into an agreement to increase CBS Warehouse A Trust securitisation facility by $100 million to $175 million. $25 million of this increase matured on 1 April 2012. The maturity date of the remaining $150 million CBS Warehouse A Trust securitisation facility is 22 July 2013."

IOW all activity relates to a time-frame no more than one year out in the future.

The amount of securitized holdings has increased when I would have expected it to decrease now that HNZ has fully rolled out of the government deposit guarantee scheme.

"The Group has bank facilities totalling $650.0 million (2011: $475.0 million)."

That increase is good for future flexibility.

This money has been on loaned to customers who want loans. These customers owe HNZ 'Finance Receivables' of $2,078,276,000. Again there is no breakdown as to what loans are current and longer term (note 16).

Given:

1/ I understand 'liquidity' to be a balance between the maturity profile of current debenture holders VERSES
2/the loan periods associated with those on lent funds are unknown,

then my analysis comes to a full stop (again).

The only thing I do note is that the amount borrowed as debentures and deposits from customers has gone down (by $6.022m) and the amount lent to customers has gone up (by $3.065m). Given that bank facilities have gone up by $175m over the same period this isn't an issue.

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

From the bottom of p12 of the 2012 financial statements:

"The Group enters into transactions whereby it transfers assets recognised on its Statements of Financial Position, but retains either all risks and rewards of the transferred assets or a portion of them. If all or substantially all risks and rewards are retained, then the transferred assets are not derecognised from the Statements of Financial Position. Transfers of assets with the retention of all or substantially all risks and rewards include, for example, securitised assets and repurchase transactions." (my bold emphasis)

So HNZ retains the downside risk for their sold off securitized assets after all?


I approve of HNZ using securitized loans to optimize their capital structure. But if these same loans can be used to hide liabilities 'off the balance sheet' then this is a real worry. If I was a shareholder, this is the question I would be asking at the HNZ AGM!

SNOOPY

[Balance]

Any TA'ers like to comment on HNZ recent movements? Looks to me like a pretty clear set of signals to buy. Textbook example?

Good for a trade.

[winner69]

I approve of HNZ using securitized loans to optimize their capital structure. But if these same loans can be used to hide liabilities 'off the balance sheet' then this is a real worry. If I was a shareholder, this is the question I woudl be asking at the HNZ AGM!

SNOOPY

Get drummed out of the brownies or something like that if you mention things like this on this thread ..... bad reaction when I mentioned something similar, seemed to upset one or two ....... of course HNZ would never do this Snoopy.

[Balance]

Get drummed out of the brownies or something like that if you mention things like this on this thread ..... bad reaction when I mentioned something similar, seemed to upset one or two ....... of course HNZ would never do this Snoopy.

If they do, it's sayonara to banking license.

[percy]

If they do, it's sayonara to banking license.

I agree.
The fact they wanted [and have now applied for] a bank licence means they are being well behaved "boy scouts".
This adds a large measure of security for shareholders,as does the very conservative equity ratio of 16%.
Moving steadily on an upward trajectory.Time to load up as the train is about to leave the station.Toot Toot.

[winner69]

.............upward trajectory.Time to load up as the train is about to leave the station.Toot Toot.


UP UP AND AWAY sounds better

[geezy]

UP UP AND AWAY sounds better

just like my signature :D

[percy]

UP UP AND AWAY sounds better

To right it does.!!!
Watch out for Belgarion's balloon.Easy to spot as it is in the shape of a GIGANTIC Pyramid....Hoot Hoot..!

[winner69]

A guy (somebody who once posted here) made this comment in the NBR ..... "Luckily Nelson Building Society have now entered the Ashburton market with their old core values and customer loyalty"

He got the one finger salute or whatever from the HNZ loyalist .... serves him right eh

Surely old core values and customer loyalty wouldn't work in places like Ashburton .... and take business away from Heartland

[percy]

A guy (somebody who once posted here) made this comment in the NBR ..... "Luckily Nelson Building Society have now entered the Ashburton market with their old core values and customer loyalty"

He got the one finger salute or whatever from the HNZ loyalist .... serves him right eh

Surely old core values and customer loyalty wouldn't work in places like Ashburton .... and take business away from Heartland

We wish him well and trust he has a fast and safe trip back to Nelson.

[Snoopy]

I agree. The fact they wanted (and have now applied for) a bank licence means they are being well behaved "boy scouts".


Not necessarily. They might be after guidance from the RBNZ to see what more they have to do. A failed application would supply that guidance. Do you think the new man replacing Bollard will be asked to rubber stamp this on his first day behind the desk?



This adds a large measure of security for shareholders,as does the very conservative equity ratio of 16%.


But is the equity to loan ratio really 16%? Not casting aspersions on your maths Percy, but is all of that equity real? Presumably HNZ got some money for those securitized loans when they were packaged up, otherwise why do it? What happens to that money when those securitized loans unwind, as they all seem to do within a twelve month period? Why is the balance of securitized loans increasing even after the government guarantee on depositors funds has expired?



Moving steadily on an upward trajectory.Time to load up as the train is about to leave the station.Toot Toot.


Just moving up and down with the market in general as I see it. I guess if you want to see some other pattern in the share price movement then you will find it?

SNOOPY

[percy]

Yes, HNZ are certainly doing what they set out to do.Great they have applied for the banking licence.Like all shareholders I am looking forward to the AGM,where we will be updated with progress and dividend policy.Looking forward to HNZ out performing the market.Up,up and away.

[janner]

Up Up and Away !!.. A little to close to Fairy Tale speak for my liking..

Just a good old .. Onward and Upward is good enough for me .

[Snow Leopard]

To Infinity and beyond !

[janner]

Can there be anything beyond Infinity PT ??

[Balance]

Yip, there's always infinity + 1

No such thing as finite.

Just a nice 50% upside in 12 months will do!

[percy]

My train is already loaded and ready to go ... Just waiting for the track to clear.

Track just about clear;only 16,000 left at 59cents.Toot,Hoot ,Toot.

[janner]

Toot Toot

Many on here will be very Chuff Chuff Chuffed :=))

[percy]

Track just about clear;only 16,000 left at 59cents.Toot,Hoot ,Toot.

Sorry about that,they didn't last long.
Sellers now 60cents while buyers are now 59cents.

[percy]

Toot Toot

Many on here will be very Chuff Chuff Chuffed :=))

Certainly will.!!!!

[Lizard]

Is this being influenced by potential changes at FPA? What is the view on direction for F&P finance arm in the event of a Haier takeover?

[Snow Leopard]

Is this being influenced by potential changes at FPA? What is the view on direction for F&P finance arm in the event of a Haier takeover?

No, this mad rush was obviously initiated by yours truly with the "Infinity and beyond" comment.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[percy]

Is this being influenced by potential changes at FPA? What is the view on direction for F&P finance arm in the event of a Haier takeover?

Very interesting Lizard.
F&P finance is such a great business,but hard to see it as part of Haier's business.
So will be interesting to see where it ends up.?

[percy]

No, this mad rush was obviously initiated by yours truly with the "Infinity and beyond" comment.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

Yes you woke up the market and moved it.!!!! The Raw Power of "The" Paper Tiger.!!!!

[Balance]

As Balance and I have been saying for some time .... ;)

60 cents and holding.

HNZ is logical buyer for F&P Finance but me thinkth HNZ will focus on getting banking licence first.

[percy]

60 cents and holding.

HNZ is logical buyer for F&P Finance but me thinkth HNZ will focus on getting banking licence first.

I agree,but would think FPF cap would be greater than HNZ's.
Can't see FPF being given away as it is such a great business.
Nice to see the astute buyers at 60 cents.

[Balance]

I agree,but would think FPF cap would be greater than HNZ's.
Can't see FPF being given away as it is such a great business.

I think HNZ is past the point of acquiring underperforming or poor performing finance companies - bulking up will involve taking on great businesses and F&P Finance will be a great 'merger' for HNZ.

[percy]

I think HNZ is past the point of acquiring underperforming or poor performing finance companies - bulking up will involve taking on great businesses and F&P Finance will be a great 'merger' for HNZ.

Yes it would be a fantastic "merger".

[Balance]

Yes it would be a fantastic "merger".

The trading banks have left a gap the size of the Grand Canyon in the SMEs, consumer/personal and asset financing markets for an entity like HNZ to capitalize on.

The banks are of course happy with their credit card operations which have overtaken those segments of the finance markets.

There's always room for the cornerstore green grocers and butchers to compete with the supermarkets.

Witness the growth and growth of the 'Mad Butcher' and 'Fruit World' around the place?

[Balance]

62 cents - what a bargain for those who saw the fire-sale when Dodgie Georgie got caught with his grubby hands in the cookie jar!

[biker]

Buyers at 63c and climbing? What price were these spun off at via PGC?

[Balance]

Buyers at 63c and climbing? What price were these spun off at via PGC?

82 cents - still a long way to go!

[biker]

Thanks balance.A banking licence should change sentiment and see that regained plus IMHO

[Balance]

A banking licence should change sentiment and see that regained IMHO

I am counting on it going to 88 cents, NTA, if it gets the banking license and declares a dividend with a DRP in November's AGM.

Not that many stocks out there you can buy at such a deep discount due to negative sentiment.

[janner]

Would not put to much reliance on a Divie this year though..

[biker]

Not that many stocks out there you can buy at such a deep discount due to negative sentiment.

I agree Balance, and we have just lost another one in FPA.

Heard on the midday news (which means it must be true) that buyers have already expressed interest in buying 'some divisions' of FPA. It was a spokesman for Haier or FPA talking. not sure which.
I would imagine HNZ would have at least expressed interest in FPF.

[biker]

Haier may sell FPA Finance if bid succeeds
Email
Print
Haier may sell FPA Finance if bid succeeds
Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:57a.m.
Haier has signalled the possible sale of Fisher & Paykel Appliances' finance unit if it succeeds in its bid for control of the Auckland-based company.

Shares of FPA jumped about 13 percent to $1.17 on the NZX on Wednesday, nearing the $1.20-a-share offer price as investors concluded it will be hard for a rival bidder to emerge given Haier has already sewn up about 37 percent of the target company.

The "potential divestment of the Fisher & Paykel Finance business" is listed among possible changes in Haier's takeover notice.

"It will come down to whether they feel finance is a core activity or whether other people would be prepared to pay a higher price than what they think it is worth," said Craig Brown, senior investment analyst at OnePath.

In the year ended March 31, the finance business generated $37.8 million of normalised earnings before interest and tax, more than three times the $11.3 million FPA earned from appliances.


FPA sees a recovery this year, with operating earnings from appliances of $35 million to $40 million, and earnings of $35 million to $38 million from the finance unit, whose products include the Farmers Finance Card and the Q card.

Chinese manufacturer Haier, FPA's biggest shareholder with about 20 percent, is aiming for a minimum 50 percent acceptance and has agreement from Allan Gray Australia to sell its 17.46 percent into the offer, giving Haier an interest in 37.46 percent.

That "will make it difficult for anybody else to come in and gazump them," OnePath's Brown said.

"The key thing in the bid is that it's only conditional on getting to 50 percent," said Matthew Goodson, portfolio manager at BT Funds Management. With Allan Gray's stake locked up "$1.20 might get them there."

The cash offer represents a 63 percent premium over FPA's stock price of 75 cents on Friday, before Haier disclosed its interest on Monday.

NZN



Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Haier-may-sell-FPA-Finance-if-bid-succeeds/tabid/421/articleID/269054/Default.aspx#ixzz26DGV0BIu

[Arbitrage]

Will we see HNZ at 60c again?

[percy]

Will we see HNZ at 60c again?

Thought it may have tested 59cents/60 cents,but the SP has stayed up/increased on very good volume.
There was a very good article on HNZ in www.chrislee.co.nz Market News last night.
"Sale of FPF will confirm the current market value of net lending assets and balance sheet equity in the finance sector,which is unlikely to be at the discount currently ascribed to HNZ share on the market."
I feel all of us holding HNZ look forward to either HNZ merging with FPF or being rerated to trade on similar multiples.

[Snoopy]

Thought it may have tested 59cents/60 cents,but the SP has stayed up/increased on very good volume.
There was a very good article on HNZ in www.chrislee.co.nz Market News last night.
"Sale of FPF will confirm the current market value of net lending assets and balance sheet equity in the finance sector,which is unlikely to be at the discount currently ascribed to HNZ share on the market."
I feel all of us holding HNZ look forward to either HNZ merging with FPF or being rerated to trade on similar multiples.

I believe the valuation of HNZ must ultimately be dependent on supply and demand for its lending services.

The best interest rate link from the sharechat website puts me through to: http://www.depositrates.co.nz/

Heartland has a call rate of 3.75%, a 90 day rate of 4.5% and a 12 month rate of 5%. These are of course leading rates that apply to new term deposits and those that are rolling over. Customers can get higher call rates at BNZ and ANZ/National. Heartland are higher than the best of the big banks (Westpac by 0.5%) on a 3 month term. Heartland are 0.5% higher than the best of the big banks (BNZ) on a 12 month term.

I am not convinced that I would put my hard eaned deposit money with Heartland for only a 0.5% premium, given its much lower credit rating. I do not believe that Heartland is yet demonstrating the growth in demand for its services is there to sustain firstly a higher profit and as a result a higher share price.

SNOOPY

[Balance]

I believe the valuation of HNZ must ultimately be dependent on supply and demand for its lending services.

The best interest rate link from the sharechat website puts me through to: http://www.depositrates.co.nz/

Heartland has a call rate of 3.75%, a 90 day rate of 4.5% and a 12 month rate of 5%. These are of course leading rates that apply to new term deposits and those that are rolling over. Customers can get higher call rates at BNZ and ANZ/National. Heartland are higher than the best of the big banks (Westpac by 0.5%) on a 3 month term. Heartland are 0.5% higher than the best of the big banks (BNZ) on a 12 month term.

I am not convinced that I would put my hard eaned deposit money with Heartland for only a 0.5% premium, given its much lower credit rating. I do not believe that Heartland is yet demonstrating the growth in demand for its services is there to sustain firstly a higher profit and as a result a higher share price.

SNOOPY

0.5% may not sound like much but to a fixed income investor, scared witless from all the scams and cons in recent years, an extra $500 per $100,000 buys their grandchildren their Christmas and birthday presents.

The fact that HNZ is holding its own in attracting deposits says something about how it is perceived and if it gets a banking licence, watch the funds flow increase.

[percy]

"The board has determined to defer the AGM until the end of November,to give shareholders greater comfort that the outcome on bank registration can be meaningfully addressed at the meeting."
Sensible announcement.

[winner69]

Licence must be a cert then ..... and champagne at the AGM .... but heck Ashburton .... where the hell is Ashburton

[winner69]

Or is that a trick question .... is there an Ashburton Hotel in Christchurch?

[percy]

Licence must be a cert then ..... and champagne at the AGM .... but heck Ashburton .... where the hell is Ashburton

Having a chuckle to myself about the choice of wine/champagne.PGC meetings were always 4pm friday afternoon and choice of wines was always excellent,but think you maybe right on the money;licence ,good stuff;no licence, chateau card-board.
Ashburton is the Heartland capital of NZ.In the heartand centre of the Canterbury plains being central to Christchurch and Timaru ,cultural center of mid Canterbury,home of Ashford spinning wheels a wonderful place to pass through.
However should HNZ perform it will come a place that we will look forward to making an annual pilgrimage to.
The local airport also welcomes those up up and away flyers.

[winner69]

.......a wonderful place to pass through.


Now I get it ..... probably passed through but not noticed

Is that the small town down that way where the highway (main road) swaps from one side of the railway line to the other

[winner69]

However should HNZ perform it will come a place that we will look forward to making an annual pilgrimage to.
The local airport also welcomes those up up and away flyers.

Think big shall we percy .... have a vision shall we .... the annual pilgrimage to Ashburton the NZ equivalent of the annual pilgrimage to Omaha to see Warren ..... and if we think really big maybe Warren will come to Ashburton to meet Geoff )it is Geoff isn't it)

[percy]

Think big shall we percy .... have a vision shall we .... the annual pilgrimage to Ashburton the NZ equivalent of the annual pilgrimage to Omaha to see Warren ..... and if we think really big maybe Warren will come to Ashburton to meet Geoff )it is Geoff isn't it)

Yes,yes "the I have a vision,the annual pilgrimage,the crossing of the railway tracks,an audience with Geoff,nights of line dancing will surely attract Warren and possibly Charlie.A visit to Garner Wayne's birth place,and our chance to sing along with that heartland all time favorite Love in a Fowl House." Fun,education and all the time making money.See ya there.!!!

[percy]

Will we see HNZ at 60c again?

Do n't know,but the buyers at 65cents today will be looking forward to 70cents rather than 60cents me thinks.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Balance]

Do n't know,but the buyers at 65cents today will be looking forward to 70cents rather than 60cents me thinks.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

88 cents, Percy - that's where it is heading.

The train has left the station but there's still time to jump onboard - need to jump though!

One easy play this is - Thanks to Dodgie Georgie's fire sale.

[Balance]

Gee, i get the uneasy feeling you're pumping for distribution here Balance. Is it on behalf of tomlinson or carter?

Hope you got onboard, Xerof.

Been a lovely easy play so far - 65 cents vs entry price of 54 cents = 20% gain in 2 months!

Thanks to Dodgie Georgie.

[Xerof]

Gee, thanks for thinking of me Balance. My view is well known, and summarised in post #541 on this thread. All going to expectation, and now entering the high risk/high return zone around that second tranche of 'reluctant' underwriting level of 65 cents, where supply MIGHT appear, but if that overhang is not too distressed, perhaps they will risk waiting for the RBNZ decision in November

I do not hold and will not buy. That has always been my position since warning you people years ago that buying PGC/heartland spin-off was a bad idea. I sincerely wish all long term holders luck, and hope the price does return to somewhere near your entry prices.

I dont expect you will need to ask me again Balance, if I got in.....i suggested the fog had lifted, but stated very clearly that I would not be buying

[percy]

Yep, seems the fog has now lifted off HNZ.

For anyone who heeded the warnings a couple of years ago and sold, if you still have the balls to buy equity in a finance co, now would seem a good time to reenter for a short term rerating imo.

I still don't hold a candle for the banking license scenario, nor do I believe the new large s/holders are committed, so for me there is limited upside. There will be a HUGE number of holders pleased to get back to breakeven before holding costs, who want rid of the whole sorry affair.


This is opinion based on my own research only, not investment advice. DYOR

Trying to understand this post.The banking licence appears to be ahead of shedule,the business appears to be well run and on course,the trading volume of shares is steady,and appears to be attracting long term holders.I would have thought it would be earnings,earnings growth and prospects,together with dividends that would drive the share price.?

[janner]

Appearances can be deceptive Perc :)

Disc. Holding

[percy]

Appearances can be deceptive Perc :)

Disc. Holding

Appearances look excellent to me. Been slowly adding to our holding sinceAapril. 10/4/12 49cents ,22/5/12 50cents, 12/7/12 51 cents,28/8/12 55cents and last buy 20/9/12 at 62cents."well positioned."

[Balance]

Gee, thanks for thinking of me Balance. My view is well known, and summarised in post #541 on this thread. All going to expectation, and now entering the high risk/high return zone around that second tranche of 'reluctant' underwriting level of 65 cents, where supply MIGHT appear, but if that overhang is not too distressed, perhaps they will risk waiting for the RBNZ decision in November

I do not hold and will not buy. That has always been my position since warning you people years ago that buying PGC/heartland spin-off was a bad idea. I sincerely wish all long term holders luck, and hope the price does return to somewhere near your entry prices.

I dont expect you will need to ask me again Balance, if I got in.....i suggested the fog had lifted, but stated very clearly that I would not be buying

65 cents could see the underwritten stock come out - maybe but unlikely in my opinion.

The biggest chunk of the underwritten stock went to PGC and that's gone.

I suspect the other underwriters got out when the going went tough ad most of the stock has gone to the likes of Tomlinson and Philip Carter. They are multi-millionaires because they have holding power.

[percy]

Still climbing and still small volumes ... C'mon mr mrkt if you want 'em you've gotta pay for them! :p

Bernard Wimp is No.18 on top 20 shareholder list of HNZ with 2,000,000 shares.Wonder if GK accepted one of Bernard's lo-ball offers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.o

[K1W1G0LD]

This could be a great long term hold, especially so when they start paying dividends.

[percy]

This could be a great long term hold, especially so when they start paying dividends.

My feelings exactly.

[Joshuatree]

I finally bought a few days back @55c and lucky days The Heart has risen steadily since. Thanks to all the Groovy Gurus posts to page 45 a good story. .

[Balance]

I finally bought a few days back @55c and lucky days The Heart has risen steadily since. Thanks to all the Groovy Gurus posts to page 45 a good story. .

By and large, good people on this site whose postings are well worthwhile following.

You just have to watch out for the ones who turn abusive when your opinion does not concur with theirs. NOG and PRC are best/worse examples if you want to look at some of the postings there. Then, the idea is to have some fun with them by stringing them along and winding them up even more.

[Balance]

Gee, thanks for thinking of me Balance. My view is well known, and summarised in post #541 on this thread. All going to expectation, and now entering the high risk/high return zone around that second tranche of 'reluctant' underwriting level of 65 cents, where supply MIGHT appear, but if that overhang is not too distressed, perhaps they will risk waiting for the RBNZ decision in November

I do not hold and will not buy. That has always been my position since warning you people years ago that buying PGC/heartland spin-off was a bad idea. I sincerely wish all long term holders luck, and hope the price does return to somewhere near your entry prices.

I dont expect you will need to ask me again Balance, if I got in.....i suggested the fog had lifted, but stated very clearly that I would not be buying

Sliced through 65 cents.

Looks like the 65 cents underwritten stock are in firm hands?

Unlike Dodgie's slippery and greasy fingers?

[janner]

Have received an offer of .40 ( Forty Cents ) for some of my share holding in HNZ today..

From...

Stock & Share Trading Company Pty Ltd.

Yes I know that most, if not ALL on this site know about them..

Is it any wonder that Mom and Pop stay away from investing ??

How can we Name and Shame .. These Parasites ??

Use the reply form as Arse wipe and post !!.. ( Paying from your own pocket the mail cost.. )..

Then wait for the " stink " to arise from the Posties..

It sure will make headlines for ... Stock & Share Trading Company Pty Ltd.

My Acceptance Form will be in the post tomorrow..

[percy]

Bernard Wimp is No.18 on top 20 shareholder list of HNZ with 2,000,000 shares.Wonder if GK accepted one of Bernard's lo-ball offers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.o

Janner,some people do very well making low ball offers.

[janner]

Only 2 mill shares !!.. You must be hard on his heels by now Perc :-))

[percy]

Only wish?
The Aussie guy's name is Tweed.He is hated in Aussie.Regulations are making it more difficult for the low-ballers,but they still do too well.
In NZ there is Whimp,but I believe Phil Briggs [ex The A letter] has tried his hand at it.Briggs surprised me because I thought highly of him.

[Balance]

Is it any wonder that Mom and Pop stay away from investing ??

How can we Name and Shame .. These Parasites ??



Nothing to do with Mom and Pop in NZ not investing in the share market, I thinkth.

Happens in the States and other countries as well:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7749987/Low-ballers-busy-as-brakes-go-on

Heaps more losses for Mom and Pop from property related and finance companies scams in NZ - e.g.. Blue Chip and just about every second finance company.

The media does a decent job of naming and shaming but the victims targeted tend to be totally ignorant about what their shares are really worth and obtained their shares from legacies, trusts, estates etc.

FMA totally useless - let the free market rule!

[Balance]

Thanks, Dodgie Georgie!

69 cents moving towards 88 cents.

[percy]

Thanks, Dodgie Georgie!

69 cents moving towards 88 cents.

Loving it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[janner]

Riches have their down side Perc.. Think of all the Woollie Pullie salesmen who will now be banging on your door :scared:

[percy]

Riches have their down side Perc.. Think of all the Woollie Pullie salesmen who will now be banging on your door :scared:

They can try,but the part of Scotland I am from,not even the Jews can make a living!!. lol.

[janner]

Oyvey Percy my son.. Do not be so hard on yourself..

As a special offer to you.. I will take all of your useless HNZ shares at the very good price of..

Hmm..hmm.hmmmmm.. @.... No !!.. @... Hmmm.. Hmmmmmmmm...

My wife will kill me.. Hmm 41 cents... So much better than my Aussie cousin..

I take the bread from my childrens mouth to do it ..

Insert Tui ad..

[percy]

Oyvey Percy my son.. Do not be so hard on yourself..

As a special offer to you.. I will take all of your useless HNZ shares at the very good price of..

Hmm..hmm.hmmmmm.. @.... No !!.. @... Hmmm.. Hmmmmmmmm...

My wife will kill me.. Hmm 41 cents... So much better than my Aussie cousin..

I take the bread from my childrens mouth to do it ..

Insert Tui ad..

Thanks for thinking of shafting me.!!!!
And I was thinking how well HNZ are driving you up the NZ contest.Up 8 places this week to 24th,while I have dropped 3 to 27th.!!!
If Balance is on target and HNZ hit 88 cents you will move up even more places.Well done.!

[janner]

Belgarion trembles :-))

[janner]

I know your holding Perc.. you know mine.. Back slapping all around eh !!..

[Grantas]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/5130b4e1/heartland-investment-grade-credit-rating-affirmed-shares-gain.html

[Baddarcy]

Seems to have stalled at 70c.

Anyone want to guess when the decision on the banking licence will come out?

To bank or not to bank, that is the question..

[K1W1G0LD]

Just a holding pattern while nervous holders are being shook out ... uptrend remains intact.

Yes, I wish they would all leave hurriedly by the rear exit so we can go on about our business of making an enormous profit.

[Snoopy]

Just a holding pattern while nervous holders are being shook out ... uptrend remains intact.


I have been looking at the deposit rates comparative website as accessed through sharechat.

http://www.depositrates.co.nz/

The 90 day rate at Heartland (rated BBB-) is 4.4% verses 3.25% for the major banks (rated AA-).

This is encouraging if you think what kind of on lending these funds will experience. It means that Heartland must have customers willing to borrow at a higher rate than the major banks. This is what Heartland needs to survive.

A banking licence may reduce borrowing costs in the medium term. But it is not a game breaker for Heartland IMO. What Heartland needs is more customers and more capital. The banking licence I see as a second line bonus.

SNOOPY

[Balance]

I think you meant .... What Heartland needs is more quality customers and more cheap capital. ... ;)

Which will be helped with a banking license.

[percy]

Which will be helped with a banking license.

I think you meant...
Which will be helped MORE with a banking licence.

[Balance]

I think you meant...
Which will be helped MORE with a banking licence.

But of course, Percy-me-ole-mate!

[percy]

Does anyone have any updated info on the banking license situation?

We are all waiting with 'baited breath".!!!!! The AGM has been put off until Nov 30th as they expect a decision in November.Whether we get an announcement before the AGM or not I do not know,however I would expect HNZ to make an announcement as soon as they know.

[Baddarcy]

Does anyone have any updated info on the banking license situation?

Well there seems to be a little more interest from shoppers today and yesterday.....

[Arbitrage]

At least if it dooesn't get a banking license it will identify where Heartland is deficient. This wil provide certainty for the application next time. Therefore I am hoping that the downside if it misses out will be minimal....

[percy]

At least if it dooesn't get a banking license it will identify where Heartland is deficient. This wil provide certainty for the application next time. Therefore I am hoping that the downside if it misses out will be minimal....

I share your view.

[Arbitrage]

On the upside, I would be interested to hear informed opinion about what a banking license is worth. The share price at the moment relfects the markets value of the company. How will a bank license change this? Perhaps growth in customers due to it no longer being considered as just another finance company? Does anyone have an estimate for the upside for the share price?

[Baddarcy]

On the upside, I would be interested to hear informed opinion about what a banking license is worth. The share price at the moment relfects the markets value of the company. How will a bank license change this? Perhaps growth in customers due to it no longer being considered as just another finance company? Does anyone have an estimate for the upside for the share price?

Well it would be a bit of a stretch to claim anything i say is 'informed' but my best guess is that a banking licence will allow Heartland to offer lower deposit rates to customers. As an example Co-Op Bank is offering between 4.1% to 4.8% over various terms, where as Heartland is offering 4.9% to 5.5%. Both have BBB- credit ratings.

My rough (very!!) numbers are that with about $2 billion in borrowing, so each 0.1% decrease in borrowing cost is worth $20m to Heartland. Given the approx 390 million shares, each 0.1% decrease in borrowing could be worth 5c per share.

So the question is, how much can they reduce their borrow costs by and how quickly can they do it?

[winner69]

I am told that the Cooperative Bank are more than pleased at the number of new customers they are pulling in with their current campaign ... pretty soft sell but that is probably what the potential punters like

Know a couple of largish worksites they have visited touting business and offering introductory deals

I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't taken some Heartland customers ... healthy competition eh

[percy]

I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't taken some Heartland customers ... healthy competition eh[/QUOTE]

Yeah Right.!!!!??!!! lol.

[winner69]

I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't taken some Heartland customers ... healthy competition eh

Yeah Right.!!!!??!!! lol.

Well me old met Percy ... The Cooperative BANK got some of my dosh (the protest against the oz greedy banks sort of ....I'll teach them a lesson ha ha) and further more I would prefer my cash be used to help me and my fellow depositors than for you and your fellow shareholders

Never mind ...doubt whether it will make any difference to the world

[percy]

Well me old met Percy ... The Cooperative BANK got some of my dosh (the protest against the oz greedy banks sort of ....I'll teach them a lesson ha ha) and further more I would prefer my cash be used to help me and my fellow depositors than for you and your fellow shareholders

Never mind ...doubt whether it will make any difference to the world

I thought you were a HNZ shareholder.?

[Arbitrage]

If they miss out on a banking license this time around, they might be a quick "Buy" on the dip before they bounce back...

[percy]

If they miss out on a banking license this time around, they might be a quick "Buy" on the dip before they bounce back...

Again I share your view,and am holding myself at the ready.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[winner69]

I thought you were a HNZ shareholder.?

Hard work balancing greedy capitalist views and doing what's best for the local communities (values and sustainability and all those things) ....... oh bugger I am confused again ... what do I really want to be

[percy]

Hard work balancing greedy capitalist views and doing what's best for the local communities (values and sustainability and all those things) ....... oh bugger I am confused again ... what do I really want to be

Don't change,we love you as you are. [yeah right] lol.

[winner69]

Dead cert then .....and most have expected it to be forthcoming eh

[K1W1G0LD]

Dead cert then .....and most have expected it to be forthcoming eh
Have'nt we been telling you that all along Winner:t_up:

[percy]

Will make the AGM a bit of a non event.

[janner]

Will make the AGM a bit of a non event.

Must give them full marks for keeping share holders informed..

Let us not forget that they will be announcing their dividend policy at the meeting .

[winner69]

Have'nt we been telling you that all along Winner:t_up:

The finance head honcho said becoming a bank was only a marketing ploy ....cynically nothing else but that he said

He get his way soon ....painting BANK on all the signs

Sign writers doing ok at the mo .....green to blue and a few BANK signs .....hope they don't misspell

[K1W1G0LD]

Must give them full marks for keeping share holders informed..

Let us not forget that they will be announcing their dividend policy at the meeting .
Yes , thats going to be interesting to see how/when they're going to commence div payments.

[janner]

...and knows of no obstacles to a successful outcome.

Hmmm ... Will be interesting to see how the market responds to those 9 words ...

Or maybe a few more hovering punters will push the buy button?

The fundies have made their play belg... long ago.. As have we... slowly building up..

I really do not think that a few hovering punters is going to make much difference in the price in the next four days..

Time will tell of course..

The dice have been thrown... " SNAKE EYE's ".. eh !!.. Percy ??..

Still think that it is a good investment with or with out the licence..

[K1W1G0LD]

One would think that with the Bank Licence announcement and the commencement of dividend payments in the near future , that the share price should edge closer to at least NTA value.

[percy]

The fundies have made their play belg... long ago.. As have we... slowly building up..

I really do not think that a few hovering punters is going to make much difference in the price in the next four days..

Time will tell of course..

The dice have been thrown... " SNAKE EYE's ".. eh !!.. Percy ??..

Still think that it is a good investment with or with out the licence..

"BULLS EYE" I hope.
Still a good investment.Even better with a banking licence.
Dividend ???? Well they have had nearly 5 months trading this year so must know how they are trading.Announcing a divie at the AGM would certainly bring happiness to all of us who fronted up with the recap of PGC.Been a bit of a wait,and a bit of a rocky road.

[janner]

and a bit of a " rocky road ".. Hahaaa.. Good " Heartland " words Percy.. ... Never did understand what it was until my Kiwi children had it on their top of their wish list..

[blobbles]

Anyone care to wager what they will do once they get bank registration? Will it be nationwide rollout of branches and a heavy marketing campaign? Or more like BAU with an enhanced status going forward?

[Arbitrage]

A banking license could help make it a nice takeover target once it got a network of branches and a decent customer base..

[blobbles]

A banking license could help make it a nice takeover target once it got a network of branches and a decent customer base..

Very true and with a decent customer base in our environment, that would probably make them rather profitable. Looking at Kiwibanks record over the past few years, its not a bad market to be in if you can make get all your systems and branches up and running pretty quickly. Last year kiwibanks profits were at 21 million... roughly the same as Heartlands this year. Kiwibanks profits this year = 80 million. All the big banks in NZ are making rather large profits, if Heartland could convince many of their customers to come over based on better margins and it being only NZX listed... how much in the way of overseas interests are holding shares? Anyone know?

[Hoop]

Anyone care to wager what they will do once they get bank registration? Will it be nationwide rollout of branches and a heavy marketing campaign? Or more like BAU with an enhanced status going forward?

Will getting or not getting a banking license have much of an affect on the shareprice with all the hype atm??? This was my personal problem question.

Having a look to see what has happening with the other BBB rated banks...such as SBS and the Co-operative Bank (old PSIS) may give some indication to what lies ahead for Heartland with its own BBB- rating (the lowest investment grade credit rating) when (if) they obtain that license.
The big players the 4 Australian owned AA banks BNZ ANZ Westpac ASB,, the AA Kiwibank and the AA dutch Rabobank have the best quality customers and they dominate the banking sector.... Credit ratings really do affect the banking business.....You need good quality customers from a variety of markets to lower the risk and increase the credit rating, so there's a bit of a "Catch 22" here.....Using TSB as a BBB bank example....it has a great customer satisfaction image, but even with this great image it is finding it slow going to expand with good customers and diversify out of Taranaki.

There is plenty of positive hype out there...I'm probably unduly pessimistic but I find it hard to get overly excited about Heartlands future prospects in this tough market.

Disc: recently sold.. held 4 months +20% return.... I'm happy with that for now.

[Baddarcy]

One would think that with the Bank Licence announcement and the commencement of dividend payments in the near future , that the share price should edge closer to at least NTA value.

Medium term yes i think your right, but i am expecting a mini rush for the door today, all those that were waiting for the banking licence announcement will exit and then try to re-enter again in 3 weeks time i suspect.

Just in regards to the dividend, my memory seems to recall that they said they would be announcing the dividend policy, BUT that they would not be paying any retrospective dividends, so i think we will get a policy but will be waiting sometime for an actual payment? Anyone else remember the same thing?

[Baddarcy]

You may well still be correct however there looks to be strong support at 70 and my guess is that the SP is going up in early trading this morning.

Your just being nice Turmeric :-) Its looking like i was wrong !! But as a shareholder, happy to be so

[percy]

Medium term yes i think your right, but i am expecting a mini rush for the door today, all those that were waiting for the banking licence announcement will exit and then try to re-enter again in 3 weeks time i suspect.

Just in regards to the dividend, my memory seems to recall that they said they would be announcing the dividend policy, BUT that they would not be paying any retrospective dividends, so i think we will get a policy but will be waiting sometime for an actual payment? Anyone else remember the same thing?

You are correct;dividend policy to be announced at AGM.
I am sure the directors will be mindfull, that sharholders put up the money for the recap of PGC, so as HNZ could be formed in late 2009,and have not had any dividends since that time.
With nearly 5 months trading this year they will have a good idea how they are trading,so that raises my hopes for an early divie,keeping in mind shareholders too will be disappointed with the delay on the banking licence decision.

[Hoop]

You may well still be correct however there looks to be strong support at 70 and my guess is that the SP is going up in early trading this morning.

No No No Turmeric......there is no strong support at 70....There is strong reistance at 70.

HNZ uptrend has paused. This is quite common after a rapid uptrend ..the stock is taking a breather due to exhaustion....the short termers are profit taking together with a decrease of buyer demand .....

HNZ has tested the 70 c resistance and has so far failed...this is seen as bearish...however for the optimists... just recently I think there has been some positive TA signals (people with Metastock with EOD data feed may confirm this)...if so then that 70c resistance could be under threat and a likelihood of HNZ breaking through that 70c barrier....this would be seen as bullish and a rapid resumption of the uptrend will occur.

Lack of Yahoo data for HNZ makes Incredible Charts useless so this simple chart below has to suffice.

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/hnz26112012.gif

[K1W1G0LD]

You are correct;dividend policy to be announced at AGM.
I am sure the directors will be mindfull, that sharholders put up the money for the recap of PGC, so as HNZ could be formed in late 2009,and have not had any dividends since that time.
With nearly 5 months trading this year they will have a good idea how they are trading,so that raises my hopes for an early divie,keeping in mind shareholders too will be disappointed with the delay on the banking licence decision.

Once the dividend policy is set at AGM and shareholders get used to the realisation that a banking licence is a distinct 99.99%possibility and the advantages that will bring to the business, then I would expect the sp to firm and advance towards NTA value. like you Percy , I'd like an early dividend but not holding my breath.

[K1W1G0LD]

Nominal divie only please - say 10% of NP - certainly nothing like 50% PLEASE! - keep the cash for growth
Any div will do me Belgarion , I don't know about you but I've got the kitchen sink on these!!

[percy]

Nominal divie only please - say 10% of NP - certainly nothing like 50% PLEASE! - keep the cash for growth

Happy with a nominal divie.

[tim23]

I think the charts are interesting but will they predict the banking licence because I expect either way a spike or plunge will occur?

[Hoop]

I think the charts are interesting but will they predict the banking licence because I expect either way a spike or plunge will occur?

Maybe.....with a word of caution
If the privileged few receive news before the official announcement the TA may**** pick it up.

Info leakage from a company is a big no no but I have seen it often enough though TA. Evidence is hard to prove though as sometimes Mr Market simply takes a punt beforehand so this action makes it all difficult to know which.

******Also.... remember there are a lot of devious bastards out there... With semi or illiquid stocks they can manipulate the shareprice to create a false signals e.g the resulting signals from an induced fake out (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/trading/fakeout.php) or shake out (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/technical/trading_trends.php). An alert experienced TA investor can read the danger signs and smell a rat...the lesser experienced TA fall for it then criticises that TA doesn't work and their stop loss strategies don't work either.

[tim23]

Thanks Hoop - sounds reasonable.

[Minerbarejet]

Not likely - another contaminated halfbaked kiwi go nowhere stock. Just what we need is another bank. Sorry, sold out at 70 .HAND

[iceman]

Happy with a nominal divie.

Same here. Would be very happy with a nominal divie, rather than a big % of NP. Hopefully we will be enlightened and made more content at the AGM.

[winner69]

You guys make out that potential divies will do wonders for the share price .... ie dividend intentions is price sensitive?

Do you believe they have not yet made up their mind what to do? Of course not ... they want something to give their ego a boost at the AGM

Somebody mentioned 'leakage of information' .... insiders in an uninformed market in other words ... but some know

Shouldn't they be telling you NOW if they know (seeing you mostly think it is price sensitive info) ...... disclosure and all taht of stuff

But then HNZ will say the BOARD has yet to ratify the policy so they can keep it secret and give themselves a thrill at the AGM .... or maybe the Chairman will make it up on the spot on Friday .... ha ha

[Balance]

You guys make out that potential divies will do wonders for the share price .... ie dividend intentions is price sensitive?

Do you believe they have not yet made up their mind what to do? Of course not ... they want something to give their ego a boost at the AGM

Somebody mentioned 'leakage of information' .... insiders in an uninformed market in other words ... but some know

Shouldn't they be telling you NOW if they know (seeing you mostly think it is price sensitive info) ...... disclosure and all taht of stuff

But then HNZ will say the BOARD has yet to ratify the policy so they can keep it secret and give themselves a thrill at the AGM .... or maybe the Chairman will make it up on the spot on Friday .... ha ha

That's the way markets work all around the world - it's all about who has access to the best information in the short term.

Often those who make a quick buck on a short term information advantage loses out in the longer term to those who take the infor and load up or bail out.

I think the most critical thing to come out of HNZ's AGM is not the divie but how are they going with their distressed property portfolio.

The underwrite from PGC is gone and from hereon in, any further deterioration will hit their bottom line and brings into question their capital adequacy.

[percy]

That's the way markets work all around the world - it's all about who has access to the best information in the short term.

Often those who make a quick buck on a short term information advantage loses out in the longer term to those who take the infor and load up or bail out.

I think the most critical thing to come out of HNZ's AGM is not the divie but how are they going with their distressed property portfolio.

The underwrite from PGC is gone and from hereon in, any further deterioration will hit their bottom line and brings into question their capital adequacy.

If that were the case the statement from HNZ "HNZ is not aware of any open issues etc" is incorrect.
I just don't see that being so.They were in talks with the Reserve Bank for months before they put in the application.They would not have put it in if there were any "open issues," which capital adequacy certainly is.

[janner]

I wonder how good their I.T. systems are?

If their I T system is good enough I will happily change my account..

I fear that they can not match ASB..

It is the number one challenge for them in my book..

Grap the punters !!..

[iceman]

If their I T system is good enough I will happily change my account..

I fear that they can not match ASB..

It is the number one challenge for them in my book..

Grap the punters !!..

Janner I agree with you on this. HNZ has a long way to go to compete with the major banks for customers, at least customers like me (and most Sharetrader members I think), which are customers I think most banks would like. I have so far not seen them make any serious attempt at getting my business (business & private) and it concerns me as a shareholder.
I do 90% of my personal and business banking online and want 98%. HNZ is not up to scratch with any of the "Ozzie banks"on this front. I am still holding but am concerned about this issue and am struggling to see how they are going to grow this part of their business. More car and high interest personal(risky) loans simply do not do it for me !

[percy]

Janner I agree with you on this. HNZ has a long way to go to compete with the major banks for customers, at least customers like me (and most Sharetrader members I think), which are customers I think most banks would like. I have so far not seen them make any serious attempt at getting my business (business & private) and it concerns me as a shareholder.
I do 90% of my personal and business banking online and want 98%. HNZ is not up to scratch with any of the "Ozzie banks"on this front. I am still holding but am concerned about this issue and am struggling to see how they are going to grow this part of their business. More car and high interest personal(risky) loans simply do not do it for me !

I don't see them in this space.Maybe they will be like SBS and get Westpac to do a lot of the "back office" work.
Bank,bank licence to me is really to get cheaper funds.Marac, and farm loans via PGW, and machinery/equipment loans and more of what they are doing well at present. More like UDC with a bank licence.Don't see hundreds of branches.They already have a good spread through out the country.

[winner69]

.....bank licence to my is really to get cheaper funds..


Head honcho numbers man said getting a banking licence was just a marketing ploy .... giving the brand credibility and all that sort of stuff

Cynical approach but good on him for being honest

Do you get dressed to the nines for the ASM .... or seeing a bit chilly in Ashburton today a shirt and the pullover do?

[percy]

A too see banking licence as a "marketing"ploy,as investors/advisers are more secure investing in a bank, rather than a building society or finance company.
For the AGM thick woolly suit, or for Percy the pullover, as it is very cold down here today.
Usually at these meetings it is well worth looking at the standard of dress,wonderfull good cloth and fine shoes.

[GRIFFIN]

Come on guys you no the drill you turn up on the john Deere with ya Swani on unless yer one of those soft hand townies.

[GRIFFIN]

Oh and by the way Heartland actually own the John Deer and i think maybe even the Swani .

[percy]

Come on guys you no the drill you turn up on the john Deere with ya Swani on unless yer one of those soft hand townies.


Yeah right on the money.Best I can do is use "Country Air" room freshener as my after shave.!!!! lol.

[GRIFFIN]

Good one percy you may not know it but you can actually get a spray that smells like old fermented silage which a lot of town boys use to smell more macho, but us country boys just smear our selves in udder cream works a treat. Go Heartland.

[blobbles]

Looks like all those wanting a nominal divie just got their wish 1.5c ex Dec 14!

[blobbles]

Ha haa, check out their AGM presentation page 16 "Bank Registration Update", followed quickly by "Strategy Update". Nothing to say on that matter...

[blobbles]

Looks like good news as far as I am concerned.

Some good points as I see it:
They are looking for greater balance in their loan books - great for stability longterm.
The statement "Our emphasis is on cash flow and the drivers of productivity", in some ways, I would hope so, but again points to a higher stability strategy (better future ratings) if they pull it off.
They are creating new products aimed at retail sector (education/security&income/health/retirement) which will be interesting to see how they turn out... these sound innovative at least

Concerns:
Day to day banking (outsource) - does this mean they let some other bank handle their general account/back office banking functions? This seems to be a rather large risk... anyone at the AGM care to indicate where they are going with this? Does this answer the question about their IT systems any? Maybe they aren't investing in one themselves (which would be rather silly I would think) but are relying on others to provide?

[GTM 3442]

Concerns:
Day to day banking (outsource) - does this mean they let some other bank handle their general account/back office banking functions? This seems to be a rather large risk... anyone at the AGM care to indicate where they are going with this? Does this answer the question about their IT systems any? Maybe they aren't investing in one themselves (which would be rather silly I would think) but are relying on others to provide?

Real banking systems are big and expensive.

A number of smaller players use (say) Westpac to provide their core banking systems, as well as card processing.

[blobbles]

Real banking systems are big and expensive.

And as they are looking at becoming a real bank, I would expect that an investment in their own infrastructure to be a smart thing.

Buying a banking system from an international vendor now wouldn't be such a bad idea with the high NZ $$ it shouldn't cost you too much. Also with a small customer base, transferring them over to a new system isn't going to be enormously costly. Doing these things in 3-5 years time however would be dramatically more costly, I would think, as the NZ dollar probably won't be as high as it is (I am prepared to eat those words) and they will probably have many more customers and product offerings. As an IT guy that has been working on the ANZ/National Bank transition, I do have some cred when it comes to these statements!

As they look to add new products to their offerings, it does make me wonder what IT system they have backing their ability to do so. They obviously have something now, but it doesn't sound like its a full blown system. Early investment in sound IT infrastructure for a new bank is an investment in their future. Under investment is likely to damage them.

With a few dozen million in the bank, they could probably purchase/migrate customers over to their own system which is under their control and/or buy the extra modules to turn your system into a fully blown one. It is also likely to lower their institutional risk which would make them a (hopefully) more stable and profitable banking platform. Using a vendor as your core system provider though... you can only offer similar offerings to those that are offered by your vendors bank, essentially you are stuck in their business. You are also a competitor to the person providing your service, not really a good position to be in.

[percy]

A very positive well attended AGM.Tone of the meeting was good.Chairman let the meeting flow.The presentations were excellent.Questions from the floor were answered well.A friendly meeting.The chairman said they were looking at a number of acquisitions opportunities.
Balance.The chairman said a growing lending book will result in negative cashflow and said note 12 in annual report tried to set this out.
Plenty of space for HNZ in their markets without taking on the major banks. Low profile is because they decided to save their advertising money until the banking licence.Then they will go for it.
Good to run into Forest and his wife.
Sometimes I have been concerned I have pushed HNZ too much on sharetrader,[may be bias ?].Well after today's agm I feel vindicated,and any one buying on my say so;,you have done the right thing.A very well run company,strong depositor base,good clients,doing well in the sectors they want to be.Good board,good MD,who is keen to get return on equity into double didgets as soon as possible.A company that knows where they are want be and how they are going to get there.STRONG BUY>

[kizame]

And to top it all off yahoo now have the data for incrediblecharts,now it just has to break the 70c resistance and away we go.

[Xerof]

Blobbles, last I heard they run on Finzsoft's Sovereign. Might not be current, but if so, doesn't clang my bell for mainstream banking

[Joshuatree]

Thanks for the AGM report Percy.

[percy]

Thanks for the AGM report Percy.

My pleasure.
You will be pleased know, I was the first to clap when the special dividend was announced by the chairman.!!! lol

[iceman]

Thanks for your report Percy. I understand what you say about HNZ not taking on the big banks at their game (previous posts) but it stills concerns me as a shareholder that they do not intend to be a real bank. I am overweight on this stock and watching with interest, so very much appreciate the opposing and challenging posts we see on Sharetrader

[percy]

Thanks for your report Percy. I understand what you say about HNZ not taking on the big banks at their game (previous posts) but it stills concerns me as a shareholder that they do not intend to be a real bank. I am overweight on this stock and watching with interest, so very much appreciate the opposing and challenging posts we see on Sharetrader

They are not the new Westpac.Not trying to be. In fact they are staying away from the big boys.There is space for them. Reread the presentation,and see where they are.
They have done everything [bar the bank licence] they said they would.I can only say that if I was overweight I would go to bed having sweet dreams tonight after today's after todays agm.A friend of mine is overweight in them too,and couldn't attend the agm.I sent him an email saying "you should have brought more." !!!!!!!!!!
Depends what you really mean by real bank.I take it internet banking etc,which I believe they can do now.Clanging Xerof's bells, I don't think they ever will.
You have an investment in a fine company.Sweet dreams.
ps.Please come to next agm.I hope Forest shares with us his throughts on the agm.

[SCOTTY]

Hi Percy

Thanks very much for attending the AGM and your most helpfull and informative report. Hard to believe that you were at the same meeting as the chap from the "Press" !! :D

Cheers

[percy]

After some familar names kept cropping up in south island business I did a bit of digging ... Its a cosy little club down there isn't it? Hope someone is keeping an eye on the dealings done by those few.

Bruce Irvine,Christchurch,Chairman ex PGC.
Jeff Greenslade,Aucland [I think] MD ex PGC.
Gary Leech,Ashburton,ex CSB.
Graham Kennedy,Ashburton,ex CSB.
Christopher Mace,Auckland,ex SCBS.
Geoffrey Ricketts,Aucland,ex SCBS.
No cosy club that I can see.

[percy]

Hi Percy

Thanks very much for attending the AGM and your most helpfull and informative report. Hard to believe that you were at the same meeting as the chap from the "Press" !! :D

Cheers

The Press have again let down their readers [again] with such poor coverage.
Pity they thought it was so important to report the old girl and retired [20 or 30 years ago] diary farmer,who thought they were at the PGC agm.!!!!
Luckily the HNZ presentation is available on NZX site under announcements.

[percy]

percy, you'll never make very good intelligence operative if that's the best you can do. Try this: if you're familiar with the concept of "Six degrees of separation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation)" then try working some of the names and south island business, both public and private, relationships through the same process and see just how often a core set of names keep coming up.

Same right through NZ business.We will always get this in such a small country.Luckily no Dunedin Mafia on board.[yet]

[percy]

The divie policy is juicy mgt speak ... Why didn't they just say: We will be paying dividends when it is prudent to do so. ... Still, the special divie is welcome but why is it special?

Special as it signals that shareholders who put up the money for the PGC recap three years ago are finally going to receive a return on that capital.Most of the shareholders at the agm are retired,on fixed income, so dividends are very welcome.
It is special as it signals the company is on track.Also on track to start paying regular dividends.
It is special as it not an interim, or a final dividend.
Just reassuring to shareholders,who will benefit from the extra cash just in time for Xmas.
I like dividends as it is a simple discipline to remind directors who owns the company,and who they are answerable to.

[Under Surveillance]

It is special as it signals the company is on track.Also on track to start paying regular dividends.
It is special as it not an interim, or a final dividend.

Thanks for your reports, percy. Love your enthusiasm.
Seems unlikely they'll pay an interim in March 2013? Maybe a 2c final in September 2013 if they lob into the projected $21-24M NPAT range for the full year to June 2013? At first blush $21-24M for FY 2013 suggests little progress on FY 2012, but 2012 was puffed up with tax windfalls.
How do you translate the dividend policy in a practical sense? Would you reckon we might see average payouts in the formative years around 50% of NPAT?

The policy is as follows: Heartland willdetermine dividends (both interim and final) based on its net profit after tax,subject to maintaining a prudent level of capital for its needs. Heartland’scapital needs will vary from time to time, depending on a range of factors(including regulatory and credit rating requirements, general economicconditions, current and expected growth and the mix of business). A keyobjective is to ensure an appropriate balance between maximising shareholderreturns, and protecting the interests of depositors through prudent capitalmanagement.

[percy]

The agm renewed my enthusiasm.You try to think ahead,and I have posted too much on HNZ,and you think to yourself,what have I got wrong,what can't I see? Then at the agm I could see I hadn't got it wrong.
Talk of March/April 2013 divie,then regular interim and final divies.So, not long to March/April.The amount concerns them.Once they start paying a certain figure shareholders/the market will expect them to keep paying that amount.The chairman kept on that they were being offered a lot of opportunities,and wanted to keep capital, incase they went ahead with these.I took it they didn't want to buy another business,pay a divie,then find their ratios were weakened.They willn't do that. He repeated that they were looking at a number of opportunities.I get the feeling they are close on something,or some things. So what will they pay? No idea,sorry.Although, we think there is no improvement in NPAT,you are right that tax windfall puffed up the 2012
result,so the $21-24m is a great improvement.I would hope that we would see a payout of 50% of NPAT for divies,but it will be a long way off I would think,but that would depend on cash required for acqusiitions.They are still a small company to be a bank.
I get the feeling they know where they are going and exactly how they are going to get there.Chairman Irvine said something along the lines,we have done the work,watch us perform once we get that bank licence.He was "full of enthusiasm",in fact rearing to go.!!! Watch the share price perform then.!!!
I did ask if they were looking at F&P Finance.Brushed me off a bit by saying yes,but it has been for sale on and off for about 12 years now,but yes amongst a lot of opportunities.

[blobbles]

Good work Percy, the F&P Finance question was one I wanted answered too. Sounds like a definite maybe!

[percy]

Good work Percy, the F&P Finance question was one I wanted answered too. Sounds like a definite maybe!

Couldn't help myself.????!!!!
I would think they would need to raise a lot of capital to do it.
I have no idea,but feel it is more a maybe not.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Percy got emailed by IRG about a 6month offering of some sort at 4.6% for Heartland check IRG web site for more details I was not interested in looking

[winner69]

The Press have again let down their readers [again] with such poor coverage.
Pity they thought it was so important to report the old girl and retired [20 or 30 years ago] diary farmer,who thought they were at the PGC agm.!!!!
Luckily the HNZ presentation is available on NZX site under announcements.

Prob the way the reporter saw it Percy .....hard to report and write a story about the enthusiastic believers and those pissed off ones.

Good photo on stuff ....the head table looks very mature ....and male ....doesn't it

The reporter did say the share price went up 2 cents after the meeting ....that's good news

[percy]

Prob the way the reporter saw it Percy .....hard to report and write a story about the enthusiastic believers and those pissed off ones.

Good photo on stuff ....the head table looks very mature ....and male ....doesn't it

The reporter did say the share price went up 2 cents after the meeting ....that's good news

Pissed off ones were at the wrong meeting.
It was the HNZ agm,not PGC agm, so any fool would have understood the "facts"they quoted were wrong. It was just the chairman's good manners that allowed them to continue.
The reason I brought a computer was because I found their reporting simply does not cover the facts.I have attended countless number of agms.and other than Neil Beriss, and Alan Williams, a number of years ago,the press's business reporters are poor.I put this down to them not owning shares,and have very little business sense,.I wrote in an earlier post I thought I was bias.This is not the case.I listen to what is being said,and have followed shares long enough to know the implications of what is said.In HNZ case they made it very clear what they planned to do.They have kept to that plan.I would have realised where I was wrong, if I had been.I knew what I was listening for.
The only disappointment was the standard of cloth and shoes.Did not seem to be the old North Canterbury"old boys" with their wonderful suits of fine tweed and highly polished brogue shoes.
The company scectary Anna-Lisa Strain was missing from the photo as she is overseas at present.
You note the reporter said the company shares went up 2cents.What he should have reported was what the chairman said would happen to the shares once they received the banking licence.[Note I did mention it in an earlier post]

[percy]

Percy got emailed by IRG about a 6month offering of some sort at 4.6% for Heartland check IRG web site for more details I was not interested in looking

I think we would agree it is better to have shares in a bank,rather than lending money to a bank.

[Xerof]

Percy, to be fair, not everyone has added to their portfolio at lower prices, as you and indeed others have done as well. There will be a significant body of holders still well under water with long term holdings originating from PGC, and Reporters will always seek out the hard luck story, rather than print any hubris or explanatory statements issued by the Chair.

I get the impression you think I am still 'down' on HNZ

i said at the time Kerr had to bail out, that the fog had lifted for HNZ, and before that my stance proved to be correct - price dropped from 88 to 45 for HNZ, and god help the holders of PGC and PGW. they must have deep pockets. Since then, other than saying the fog had lifted, and good luck to holders for the future, but personally I wouldn't be buying, I have not made comment.


my recent comment wrt IT was simply implying that if they only had Sovereign as a mainframe accounting system, then a significant amount of capex will be required to bring them into the 'banking'scene. Sovereign doesn't cut the mustard in my experience with it. I said I didn't know for sure if they (still) did or not, but it's not for me to find out

i still hold the view a banking license is moral hazard in this case. Whilst their loan portfolio mix remains as it is, the most appropriate regulatory regime is NBDT. I also see the Credit Rating as a problem for RBNZ - one downgrade and they become 'junk' rated. Not saying that will happen, but it is a risk for the Authorities to sweat on. So why would they?


this is my view, and I could be wrong. I wont lose any sleep either way, as I dont own any shares. My original concern with this whole sorry episode is now finally in the hands of the appropriate authorities. I only hope their investigations are exhaustive.....

Regards
Xerof

[forest]

my recent comment wrt IT was simply implying that if they only had Sovereign as a mainframe accounting system, then a significant amount of capex will be required to bring them into the 'banking'scene. Sovereign doesn't cut the mustard in my experience with it. I said I didn't know for sure if they (still) did or not, but it's not for me to find out {Quote Xerof}.

Xerof I was at the AGM and the IT was briefly discussed, my understanding is that HNZ understand the importance of their IT system.
Bruce Irvine explained that IT for a bank is bread and butter stuff. My impression is that he thinks the IT is more or less OK for the moment but he realised improvements are needed in the near future. Mention was made that HNZ outsources IT development. The company they use is the same as the one Kiwi Bank uses.

[percy]

Percy, to be fair, not everyone has added to their portfolio at lower prices, as you and indeed others have done as well. There will be a significant body of holders still well under water with long term holdings originating from PGC, and Reporters will always seek out the hard luck story, rather than print any hubris or explanatory statements issued by the Chair.

I get the impression you think I am still 'down' on HNZ

i said at the time Kerr had to bail out, that the fog had lifted for HNZ, and before that my stance proved to be correct - price dropped from 88 to 45 for HNZ, and god help the holders of PGC and PGW. they must have deep pockets. Since then, other than saying the fog had lifted, and good luck to holders for the future, but personally I wouldn't be buying, I have not made comment.


my recent comment wrt IT was simply implying that if they only had Sovereign as a mainframe accounting system, then a significant amount of capex will be required to bring them into the 'banking'scene. Sovereign doesn't cut the mustard in my experience with it. I said I didn't know for sure if they (still) did or not, but it's not for me to find out

i still hold the view a banking license is moral hazard in this case. Whilst their loan portfolio mix remains as it is, the most appropriate regulatory regime is NBDT. I also see the Credit Rating as a problem for RBNZ - one downgrade and they become 'junk' rated. Not saying that will happen, but it is a risk for the Authorities to sweat on. So why would they?


this is my view, and I could be wrong. I wont lose any sleep either way, as I dont own any shares. My original concern with this whole sorry episode is now finally in the hands of the appropriate authorities. I only hope their investigations are exhaustive.....

Regards
Xerof

Xerof.
Thanks for your well thought out comments.I have just spent over half an hour writing my thoughts only to find "you do not have permission please refresh the page".Lost.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So sorry no comments from me.

[janner]

Xerof.
Thanks for your well thought out comments.I have just spent over half an hour writing my thoughts only to find "you do not have permission please refresh the page".Lost.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So sorry no comments from me.

Percy.. Thank you for attending the meeting and for your reports..

HNZ has many overhanging questions for many people IMO..

Is it just another RA.Ra..ra.. from an initial meeting.. With all the circus events.. ??..

We have some on here saying that the kitchen sink is on it.. ( More fool them .. )

Personally will continue with my holding .. Will watch every stroke of their pens..

[percy]

No overhanging questions except "bank licence".
RaRa.No way.! Carefully thought out plans are starting to bare fruit.
On announcement of the banking licence you will see the SP take off.

[biker]

Thanks Percy, for your report on the meeting and comments. Appreciated.

[K1W1G0LD]

jannar, have I offended you in some way......................all things are relative.
I guess its easier to criticize than be correct!

[janner]

jannar, have I offended you in some way......................all things are relative.
I guess its easier to criticize than be correct!

No K1W1GOLD.. You have never offended me.. And I hope never to offend you..

Had to go back and find it was your post 743 that was the one that had the " kitchen sink " on HNZ..

It is an old maxim .. Never put more into the market than you can afford to lose..

I feel sure that Mrs. K1W1GOLD would be most annoyed at you if you lost the " kitchen sink "..

Also ... Percy has been great with his updates etc.. etc... BUT.. It is so easy to be carried away with hype..

Not that I am accusing Percy of hyping HNZ..

It is the very nature of this game.. DYOR... DYOR... and again ,, DYOR..


Disc.. Holding .. and.. Building..

[percy]

Percy, to be fair, not everyone has added to their portfolio at lower prices, as you and indeed others have done as well. There will be a significant body of holders still well under water with long term holdings originating from PGC, and Reporters will always seek out the hard luck story, rather than print any hubris or explanatory statements issued by the Chair.

I get the impression you think I am still 'down' on HNZ

i said at the time Kerr had to bail out, that the fog had lifted for HNZ, and before that my stance proved to be correct - price dropped from 88 to 45 for HNZ, and god help the holders of PGC and PGW. they must have deep pockets. Since then, other than saying the fog had lifted, and good luck to holders for the future, but personally I wouldn't be buying, I have not made comment.


my recent comment wrt IT was simply implying that if they only had Sovereign as a mainframe accounting system, then a significant amount of capex will be required to bring them into the 'banking'scene. Sovereign doesn't cut the mustard in my experience with it. I said I didn't know for sure if they (still) did or not, but it's not for me to find out

i still hold the view a banking license is moral hazard in this case. Whilst their loan portfolio mix remains as it is, the most appropriate regulatory regime is NBDT. I also see the Credit Rating as a problem for RBNZ - one downgrade and they become 'junk' rated. Not saying that will happen, but it is a risk for the Authorities to sweat on. So why would they?


this is my view, and I could be wrong. I wont lose any sleep either way, as I dont own any shares. My original concern with this whole sorry episode is now finally in the hands of the appropriate authorities. I only hope their investigations are exhaustive.....

Regards
Xerof

Lets see if I don't get logged out this time.
Yes I owe you an apology as I thought mistakenly you were "down"on HNZ and no matter what IT they did would not be good enough for you.
I now appriciate you were correct in your views on George Kerr.
Chairman Bruce Irvine and CEO Jeff Greenslade were very pleased with recent credit rating report.They mentioned while discussing dividends they were mindful of opportunities avaliable and capital requirements which would come before dividends,I don't think they could stomach a credit downgrade.
I find your posts interesting and very well thought out.

[janner]

Lets see if I don't get logged out this time.
Yes I owe you an apology as I thought mistakenly you were "down"on HNZ and no matter what IT they did would not be good enough for you.
I now appriciate you were correct in your views on George Kerr.
Chairman Bruce Irvine and CEO Jeff Greenslade were very pleased with recent credit rating report.They mentioned while discussing dividends they were mindful of opportunities avaliable and capital requirements which would come before dividends,I don't think they could stomach a credit downgrade.
I find your posts interesting and very well thought out.

As I do yours Percy.

Not wanting to turn this into a mutual admiration society..

Is this site not about posting ones thoughts and reading others thoughts.. ??..

Long may it live..

[Xerof]

Sometimes hard to get context across janner, but we try our best.

no apology sought percy, just wanted to reiterate my current position, which moderated with Cur's exit from the register. We still hold differing levels of enthusiasm for HNZ, but life would be dull if we all agreed with each other.

Interesting 'sound byte' from chair and CEO re rating and opportunities. Keep it coming......

cheers

[corlemar]

decisions decisions.....anybody have any thoughts on whether you would be a buyer here or a seller ?

[GRIFFIN]

I would have thought there maybe some up side to this outfit, eg recent info plus a looming bank licence. Good luck with your decision corlemar.

[corlemar]

Bought another $20k parcel @ 68c a few days back ... :) ... Happy holder :p

Cheers Belg - was holder at demerger and also put more in at rights issue $0.52 so wondering how far it can go !

[percy]

This week's Market News at www.chrislee.co.nz is interesting.Kevin Gloag has written a peice on last week's HNZ agm which he attended.
Very different from the trash The Press served up.!!!!

[percy]

I missed catching up with an old friend at HNZ agm.We decided to send each other our report of the agm.From my friend's report;Bank licence,Bruce Irving was ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT about it, so sure that just the formalities remain,and he would have learnt to be cautious and conservative ! He'd have to resign if they miss out now,and I would be very surprised if he left himself open to that
You are spot on about The Press coverage........ very negative and covered irrelevant material....... shows how important it is to go to these meetings.

[K1W1G0LD]

HNZ
17/12/2012 09:08
GENERAL

REL: 0908 HRS Heartland New Zealand Limited

GENERAL: HNZ: Bank Registration Successful

NZX Release

BANK REGISTRATION SUCCESSFUL

17 December 2012

Heartland New Zealand Limited (HNZ) (NZX:HNZ) is pleased to announce that
Heartland Building Society's application for bank registration has been
successful.

The Reserve Bank of New Zealand has registered Heartland Building Society
(Heartland) as a bank, with immediate effect. Heartland, the wholly owned
subsidiary of HNZ, has now achieved its goal of becoming the only New Zealand
operated, controlled and managed banking group, with a parent company listed
on the NZX Main Board.

Chairman Bruce Irvine says "It has been my pleasure to be part of this
Heartland journey, and we can be extremely proud of all that has been
accomplished. I would like to thank our loyal HNZ Shareholders and Heartland
depositors. We look forward to delivering on the promise of being a
successful NZ listed Bank that will support the productive sectors of the New
Zealand economy over the long term."

Chief Executive Jeff Greenslade stated that "Heartland will continue to be
New Zealand focussed and is part of a new breed of banks offering a fresh
approach in two ways. A balanced engagement across the three sectors that
drive prosperity in New Zealand communities - Business, Rural and Households.
Secondly, an emphasis on supporting and funding the productive sector -
meeting the sustainable needs of hard-working New Zealanders and New Zealand.
We recognise that at the same time Heartland, as a bank, needs to retain the
advantages of being small: local and accessible, at all times seeking to be
innovative".

- Ends -

For additional information contact:
Jeff Greenslade
Chief Executive Officer
Heartland New Zealand Limited

[Xerof]

And also Congrats to shareholders who held for this very announcement.

[Joshuatree]

Well done all of us too!!!.:t_up:

[biker]

Hear hear STC, X & JT.

[winner69]

The chief finance man will now be happy .... for a few reasons .... but more so he will now be able to tell the advertsing guys its all on .... spend that money we have set aside to tell the world we are a BANK now

If they do it well the advertising might even have a flow on impact on the share price

[iceman]

An important milestone in Heartland BANK'S "steady as she goes" trudge. It will be interesting to see what/if this achievement has any short-medium term effect on the business. Great news.

[Arbitrage]

Lower borrowing costs in the short term and a takeover target in the medium term. Good work Heartland.

[Balance]

Kiwibank has shown that a niche focus bank can work.

And with feelings running high against the Aussie controlled (and manipulated) trading banks price gouging New Zealanders, there is certainly good scope to leverage off its NZ roots.

[Arbitrage]

It also takes it out of the realm of being just a finance company.

[Baddarcy]

Still seems to be plenty of sellers looking to exit.

Silly people must have lots of Christmas prezzies to pay for :-)

[Balance]

Still seems to be plenty of sellers looking to exit.

Silly people must have lots of Christmas prezzies to pay for :-)

Usual story - there are those who have bought in anticipation of a spike on the banking announcement.

Clearing their trades before the end of year.

Good on them if they make money.

They showed more courage than many who bailed out below 52 cents!

Plenty of upside left though for those who are buying in now.

HNZ is a safer bet now than it has ever been.

[percy]

The chief finance man will now be happy .... for a few reasons .... but more so he will now be able to tell the advertsing guys its all on .... spend that money we have set aside to tell the world we are a BANK now

If they do it well the advertising might even have a flow on impact on the share price

Right on.!!! Bring it on!!!!.All of us here are " well positioned" for the share price trajectory.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And a very well done to directors and management at HNZ for achieving their objective.Something to be very proud of.For all of us who invest in shares it is pleasing to see a NZ listed bank.
To all sharetraders who hung on and brought more,well done,the fun is about to get seriously good.
Nice Xmas present to us all.

[janner]

Good to know that Mrs. K1W1GOLD has now a safe kitchen sink..

Think it maybe a while before any decent upward movent is seen .. Every one has already positioned themselves..

[blobbles]

Seems a bit mad people selling at the current price, their EPS indicates they are at least worth their NTA value, but likely a lot more now due to the potential growth upside. But hey, I will buy a few more just to get a round number in my portfolio if people are selling :)

Seems like a well run company now coming out of a period of turmoil. The bank registration just confirms this.

[winner69]

When people sell and there seems no real reason they cal it "profit taking"

[K1W1G0LD]

Good to know that Mrs. K1W1GOLD has now a safe kitchen sink..

Think it maybe a while before any decent upward movent is seen .. Every one has already positioned themselves..

Hahaha, it was always safe.Now she can have a new one and soon a new kitchen as well:p

[SCOTTY]

The Banking Licence is a big milestone and excellant news for Christmas.

There was an interesting item on Sharechat dated 13th Dec. - "ANZ Bank's UDC Finance unit lifts FY profit by 31% on lending growth."

What I found particularly interesting was that the profit of $37.9 million was achieved on a lending book of over $2 billion. I assume that this is just over the $2b as the article said "UDC's lending book rose 3.5% to over $2 billion"
This is pretty similar to HEARTLAND BANK which has Net Finance Receivables of $2.078 billion.

Surely "THE BANK" should soon be producing a similar result which would make for juicy earnings of 9.75cps ($37.9m divided by the 388,703,975 shares on issue). Currently, HEARTLAND BANK has total assets of $2.65 billion, which would suggest that it has the capacity to substancially improve on this result.

These are my thoughts and I could be quite wrong (but I hope not). :D

[percy]

The Banking Licence is a big milestone and excellant news for Christmas.

There was an interesting item on Sharechat dated 13th Dec. - "ANZ Bank's UDC Finance unit lifts FY profit by 31% on lending growth."

What I found particularly interesting was that the profit of $37.9 million was achieved on a lending book of over $2 billion. I assume that this is just over the $2b as the article said "UDC's lending book rose 3.5% to over $2 billion"
This is pretty similar to HEARTLAND BANK which has Net Finance Receivables of $2.078 billion.

Surely "THE BANK" should soon be producing a similar result which would make for juicy earnings of 9.75cps ($37.9m divided by the 388,703,975 shares on issue). Currently, HEARTLAND BANK has total assets of $2.65 billion, which would suggest that it has the capacity to substancially improve on this result.

These are my thoughts and I could be quite wrong (but I hope not). :D

Thanks for the link SCOTTY.
I don't think you are wrong,in fact I would say you are right on the money.HNZ and UDC should track markets together,and I look forward to HNZ also posting a $37.9mil profit.

[Snoopy]

The Banking Licence is a big milestone and excellent news for Christmas.


IMO the HNZ banking licence is a stake in the ground and good news for Christmas. It isn't a hyperbole event. And it doesn't address any of the underlying issues of running a small finance institution.



There was an interesting item on Sharechat dated 13th Dec. - "ANZ Bank's UDC Finance unit lifts FY profit by 31% on lending growth."

What I found particularly interesting was that the profit of $37.9 million was achieved on a lending book of over $2 billion. I assume that this is just over the $2b as the article said "UDC's lending book rose 3.5% to over $2 billion"
This is pretty similar to HEARTLAND BANK which has Net Finance Receivables of $2.078 billion.

Surely "THE BANK" should soon be producing a similar result which would make for juicy earnings of 9.75cps ($37.9m divided by the 388,703,975 shares on issue). Currently, HEARTLAND BANK has total assets of $2.65 billion, which would suggest that it has the capacity to substantially improve on this result.


How much does UDC lend on farms and to households? Also UDC is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ANZ bank with a credit rating of AA-. The credit rating of Heartland is still BBB-. In short I don't think you should expect Heartland 'whatever' to outperform UDC.

What has happened today is akin to going out and screwing a 'GT' badge on your car. It won't make your car go any faster. Maybe it might impress some granny peering over your back fence. But she won't be vying to get into your passenger seat. All her dough is done already thanks to the finance sector collapse at the 'Brokenheartland Money Club'.

SNOOPY

[percy]

Breaking News! Heartland have just rebranded my local CBS Canterbury store in Riccarton as 'Heartland'. This is very clever timing. The work is done in June and Heartland gets the bill in July. But Heartland's balance date is 30th June. That means Heartland can shunt their transformation costs into the following financial year!

One more observation. The new branding is 'Heartland' not 'Heartland bank'. That means we can rule out Heartland becoming a bank in the next year. If a banking licence decision was near Heartland would have delayed their rebranding IMO.

SNOOPY

Licence granted today.

[percy]

Here are the latest basel 3 requirements outlining hoops that must be jumped through for all new banks.

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/finstab/banking/regulation/3564868.pdf

I draw your attention to Clause 10(c) amongst the information the Reserve Bank need to have on record.

----
10(c) Financial accounts for the parent company or bank for the last 3 years.
----

Since Heartland have only existed since the second half of last year, I think this means we can rule out registration of HNZ as a bank for about three years.

SNOOPY

Banking licence granted today.

[percy]

[

What has happened today is akin to going out and screwing a 'GT' badge on your car. It won't make your car go any faster. Maybe it might impress some granny peering over your back fence. But she won't be vying to get into your passenger seat. All her dough is done already thanks to the finance sector collapse at the 'Brokenheartland Money Club'.

SNOOPY[/QUOTE]

No old ANZ Cortina with a GT badge.Latest model bank tourer with all the bells and whistles.NZ owned bank serving NZ "Heartland".A true throughbred.In fact a good replacement for that National bank one ANZ sent to the pet food factory.

[Balance]

[

What has happened today is akin to going out and screwing a 'GT' badge on your car. It won't make your car go any faster. Maybe it might impress some granny peering over your back fence. But she won't be vying to get into your passenger seat. All her dough is done already thanks to the finance sector collapse at the 'Brokenheartland Money Club'.

SNOOPY

No old ANZ Cortina with a GT badge.Latest model bank tourer with all the bells and whistles.NZ owned bank serving NZ "Heartland".A true throughbred.In fact a good replacement for that National bank one ANZ sent to the pet food factory.[/QUOTE]

Ole Snoopy's string and plywood bi-plane crashed today but thank goodness, he seems ok judging by his mutterings!

[percy]

[

Ole Snoopy's string and plywood bi-plane crashed today but thank goodness, he seems ok judging by his mutterings![/QUOTE]

Heartily agree.!!!!! lol

[Balance]

Onwards and upwards.

Don't be too hard on Snoopy, though his negativity towards a stock like Heartland is eerily similar to that of PGW, I found his criticisms useful as they provoked my hypothesis on PGW with ideas I hadn't considered. I hope it did the same for Heartland investors.

We should all be pleased to have contrarian views at Sharetrader - it makes us stronger when we think about investment from bear views and with a dose of healthy skepticism.

The comments that deserve the most criticism are not the ones that say "this stock is damaged because of XYZ", but those who try to talk up a stock for their own benefit. I've poured scorn on a few others who've done this at the Smartpay thread. I've been a bit rude and unkind to long suffering BLIS investors too who seem far too optimistic.

Back to Heartland. I am surprised that the stock didn't hurtle past 70c with gusto, but on reflection it is still early days - they're not a bank yet, merely able to pursue a retail banking strategy.

Agree whole heartedly, STC.

Sharetrader will not be sharetrader without posters like Snoopy who provides critical balance and analysis. Meant sincerely, Snoopy - keep challenging as most tend to be rather myopic when it comes to their favorite stock.

Christmas is approaching so Snoopy will need to get his plane up and flying again to guard us against the red baron?