HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[RTM]

You are right ... a renounceable rights issue would have been much fairer. I think it as well appropriate to communicate this to the board. Feel free to send them a friendly message - or tell them next AGM. I am trying to get the NZSA interested to raise this with HBL ... and definitely intend to raise it at the next AGM (which is however still 9 months away ..).

Care guys...I would guess most on here (other than Percy perhaps) would be classified as small share holders. So we get an advantage with this type of blanket 15K allocation.
I'm quite happy with the system.

Cheers
RTM

[trader_jackson]

What yoiu make of the NTA not increasing from June to December?

Discrepancies can happen, not too concerned

[Xerof]

Hey guys, im planning on participating in this SPP. Quick question, does the standard cash management account that ASB offer with their sharetrading accounts allow a direct debit payment for SPPs? I cant say I've ever used it for anything but buying shares online.
Yes, I asked them that very question this afternoon

[winner69]

Discrepancies can happen, not too concerned

What you make of Paper Tigers comment - 'On current profit guidance of up to $60M - FY EPS growth would be less than 5%.'



Some of the basic valuation metrics not looking too flash?

[Turtle2]

Well I got through straight away. saints be praised. Link didn't have me down to receive email for HBL just for my other holdings I'm not quite sure why but as a result they are sending the information out to me snail mail but that'll be fine as I won't be putting in my application until March anyway.

Perhaps the same for me. Snail mail was always on its way or as a result of your call?

[trader_jackson]

What you make of Paper Tigers comment - 'On current profit guidance of up to $60M - FY EPS growth would be less than 5%.'


Old Jeff will put a profit upgrade out in early August I'm sure ;) :t_up:

[winner69]

Old Jeff will put a profit upgrade out in early August I'm sure ;) :t_up:

If he knows now why hold back ... he being a bit sneaky

Wonder if he fool Forbar again

[percy]

What you make of Paper Tigers comment - 'On current profit guidance of up to $60M - FY EPS growth would be less than 5%.'



Some of the basic valuation metrics not looking too flash?

Very difficult to get a full year's eps on shares that will have been issued for under 4 months,I would think.

[Turtle2]

Currently have a small holding (big for me) and don't have $15k sitting around. Don't want to sell other shares either. Seems like best option for me would be to sell my HBL shares and use the money for the offer. Dilution would mean I end up with less and would have to spend the amount I get back on something though.

[percy]

Currently have a small holding (big for me) and don't have $15k sitting around. Don't want to sell other shares either. Seems like best option for me would be to sell my HBL shares and use the money for the offer. Dilution would mean I end up with less and would have to spend the amount I get back on something though.

Matthew be happy that you hold some HBL,don't be greedy.
If you don't have any spare money, forget the SPP.
I usually have a bit of rainy day money at hand,and that's what I will be using [if the wife has not cleaned it out already.!].

[Beagle]

Very difficult to get a full year's eps on shares that will have been issued for under 4 months,I would think.

I agree. These things are measured on a weighted average number of shares on issue that takes into account the timing of new share issuance.
I am confident on this correct approach earnings growth will be in the double digits per share.
Like you Percy, I am somewhat surprised they haven't made a tier 2 capital issuance. I would have thought with prevailing interest rates still being low there would be solid demand for a ~ $50m issue at ~ 6%.
Perhaps its important that Tier 1 capital ratio's are nice and robust first ? In any event I expect a Tier 2 issue at some stage which will be EPS accretive.

[iceman]

Currently have a small holding (big for me) and don't have $15k sitting around. Don't want to sell other shares either. Seems like best option for me would be to sell my HBL shares and use the money for the offer. Dilution would mean I end up with less and would have to spend the amount I get back on something though.

I would consider forgetting the SPP in your case Matthew and subscribing to a full participation in the DRP.

[percy]

I agree. These things are measured on a weighted average number of shares on issue that takes into account the timing of new share issuance.
I am confident on this correct approach earnings growth will be in the double digits per share.
Like you Percy, I am somewhat surprised they haven't made a tier 2 capital issuance. I would have thought with prevailing interest rates still being low there would be solid demand for a ~ $50m issue at ~ 6%.
Perhaps its important that Tier 1 capital ratio's are nice and robust first ? In any event I expect a Tier 2 issue at some stage which will be EPS accretive.

I think we are seeing it differently from HBL's point of view.
Where you and I see they should raise $60mil to $80 mil with Tier 2, to fund growth over the next year or two,HBL keep going on about having too much capital which they see as affecting their figures,so they prefer to raise the capital just before they need it.
I think we will just have to accept that is the way they are going to do it.

[Snow Leopard]

...What yoiu make of the NTA not increasing from June to December?


What you make of Paper Tigers comment - 'On current profit guidance of up to $60M - FY EPS growth would be less than 5%.'



Some of the basic valuation metrics not looking too flash?

I think what worries me the most, winner69, about the answers to your questions apart from the euphoric & glib nature of them (the answers that is, not the questions) is that very few of us actually appear to be thinking.

Obviously I am personally 'well miffed' that it apparently has not occurred to the likes of Roger and percy that I, the Paper Tiger, had taken the diluted nature of EPS results into account already.

Perhaps $1.46 whilst a discount to the current market price is not actually a discount to fair value!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

*alternative title: Move over Snoopy, I can take it from here.

[BlackPeter]

Care guys...I would guess most on here (other than Percy perhaps) would be classified as small share holders. So we get an advantage with this type of blanket 15K allocation.
I'm quite happy with the system.

Cheers
RTM

We won't get a $15k allocation, though. We have only the right to apply for $15k worth of new shares and to give them an interest free loan for this amount. We might get (if we are really lucky and half of us don't bother) less than 1/3rd of the applied for number of shares. If everybody applies for the full sum it would be roughly $2k worth of shares (and $13k returned) for everybody. I intend to apply for the full sum, but realistically will consider myself as lucky if I get $5k worth of shares out of this exercise.

I would have preferred a renounceable rights issue for the full CR including institutions (i.e. $40m) ...

[winner69]

I think what worries me the most, winner69, about the answers to your questions apart from the euphoric & glib nature of them (the answers that is, not the questions) is that very few of us actually appear to be thinking.

Obviously I am personally 'well miffed' that it apparently has not occurred to the likes of Roger and percy that I, the Paper Tiger, had taken the diluted nature of EPS results into account already.

Perhaps $1.46 whilst a discount to the current market price is not actually a discount to fair value!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

*alternative title: Move over Snoopy, I can take it from here.

I agree (I think we saying same thing with tiger talk and bee,s buzzing lingo)

While doing EPS on weighted number of shares is the way its done isn't it ironic that the dividend pool is shared out on actual (or to be post SPP) number of shares - hence no increase in dividend ....hmm

[Turtle2]

Matthew be happy that you hold some HBL,don't be greedy.
If you don't have any spare money, forget the SPP.
I usually have a bit of rainy day money at hand,and that's what I will be using [if the wife has not cleaned it out already.!].

Thanks percy and iceman. Wise as always!

[kizame]

Can I ask someone far more knowledgeable than I, Why does't HBL do an SPP at say $6,000/shareholder foregetting the largest institutions,Because they have already participated.
Lets say 7,000 are given the opportunity to apply for $6,000 worth of shares,thats $42M.
This would then alleviate the need for a tier 2 issue in Aus. Or is it that they are only doing that partly to increase their exposure over there,and hence their credibility?
If they can use the capital,why not have a wee bit too much now,to be used later,it's not costing them,apart from maybe return on equity short term?
This may sound dumb to some,but just out of interest.

[winner69]

Like the Virgin Air say "balance sheet optimistaton' is key

[kizame]

Like the Virgin Air say "balance sheet optimistaton' is key

But tier 2 capital is costing them interest, SPP only increases shares on issue no?

[thevalueinvestor]

But tier 2 capital is costing them interest, SPP only increases shares on issue no?

Common stock generally is considered the most expensive source of capital

[kizame]

Common stock generally is considered the most expensive source of capital

Thanks and welcome, I'm normally a chart watcher and only view some basic fundamentals as a guide. So really was interested to know why.

[tim23]

I'm a bit more optimistic than you - expect to get most of the $15000 they have increased the offer size from original too, I'm certainly applying for $15000.
We won't get a $15k allocation, though. We have only the right to apply for $15k worth of new shares and to give them an interest free loan for this amount. We might get (if we are really lucky and half of us don't bother) less than 1/3rd of the applied for number of shares. If everybody applies for the full sum it would be roughly $2k worth of shares (and $13k returned) for everybody. I intend to apply for the full sum, but realistically will consider myself as lucky if I get $5k worth of shares out of this exercise.

I would have preferred a renounceable rights issue for the full CR including institutions (i.e. $40m) ...

[Bjauck]

Common stock generally is considered the most expensive source of capital
Is that true too for the ordinary shares that will be issued under the SPP? Are NZ ordinary share as expensive a source of capital as American common stock, taking into account comparative yield expectations as well as compliance and capital raising costs?

[winner69]

Is that true too for the ordinary shares that will be issued under the SPP? Are NZ ordinary share as expensive a source of capital as American common stock, taking into account comparative yield expectations as well as compliance and capital raising costs?

Snoopy has sort of done the sums re cost of equity so maybe he could let us know

[janner]

I'm a bit more optimistic than you - expect to get most of the $15000 they have increased the offer size from original too, I'm certainly applying for $15000.

I also will be applying for the full mount. Yes. Many will not for various reasons.. The amount on offer has doubled..

[Beagle]

Would someone please be so kind as to update me on that the current discount to VWAP HBL are offering under their scheme, if any ?

[iceman]

Would someone please be so kind as to update me on that the current discount to VWAP HBL are offering under their scheme, if any ?

Don´t hold me to it Roger but from memory it is 2.5%

[SCOTTY]

Don´t hold me to it Roger but from memory it is 2.5%

Yes 2.5% discount

[Beagle]

Thanks guys....it's been a long day working the steam powered abacus and couldn't be bothered looking it up.
Might as well sign up for that as well as the SPP...no brainer applying for the full $15K worth of SPP in my opinion.

[silu]

Pretty sure they take the whole application money and then refund after scaling right? I might only be able to scrap together 5k for my application :(

[trader_jackson]

Pretty sure they take the whole application money and then refund after scaling right? I might only be able to scrap together 5k for my application :(

Correct, so if you apply for 5k, they will take 5k, and then refund you any scaled amount.

[JeremyALD]

Pretty sure they take the whole application money and then refund after scaling right? I might only be able to scrap together 5k for my application :(

Yeah they just took 15K out of my account today. It took much longer than 24 hours for them to do it though!

[silu]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do have some money in a Rabosaver account earning very little interest so I better raid that after month end and apply for whatever I can afford.

[percy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do have some money in a Rabosaver account earning very little interest so I better raid that after month end and apply for whatever I can afford.

That-a-boy.!
I am looking under the mattress,in the sugar bowl,but can't remember where in the garden I planted the rest of our cash.!

[RGR367]

That-a-boy.!
I am looking under the mattress,in the sugar bowl,but can't remember where in the garden I planted the rest of our cash.!

Need to borrow a onesie and station myself abour Welly's CBD begging for some cash for this spp :p

[Snoopy]

Thanks guys....it's been a long day working the steam powered abacus and couldn't be bothered looking it up.
Might as well sign up for that as well as the SPP...no brainer applying for the full $15K worth of SPP in my opinion.

Just because you can buy some shares cheaper tomorrow than what you can buy them for on the market today doesn't make it a 'no brainer' in my books. There might be reason to apply for shares under the plan, a syou can build up a small holding without incurring brokerage. By raiding the mattress and the flower pot in the garage? Surely this is only a great idea if you are sure that the discounted hsares you will get are good value. With fair value at $1.42, I think this is far from clear.

SNOOPY

[IAK]

Just beacsue you can buy some shares cheaper tomorrow than what you can buy them for on the market today doesn't make it a 'no brainer' in my books. There might be reason to apply for shares under the plan, a syou can build up a small holding without incurring brokerage. By raiding the mattress and the flower pot in the garage? Surely this is only a great idea if you are sure that the discounted hsares you will get are good value. With fair value at $1.42, I think this is far from clear.

SNOOPY

I hear what you're saying didn't work out to well for me with Trilogy lol.

Disc. Holding and applying for full amount.

[silu]

I am buying mainly for the dividend and the potential upside in SP. Over 5% for HBL vs 2.75% on my Rabosaver. Lets just hope my car will get its WOF next month.

[percy]

I am buying mainly for the dividend and the potential upside in SP. Over 5% for HBL vs 2.75% on my Rabosaver. Lets just hope my car will get its WOF next month.

Don't worry,be happy in the knowledge the dividend, from the shares you receive from the SPP, should cover any minor car repairs.!

[silu]

Don't worry,be happy in the knowledge the dividend, from the shares you receive from the SPP, should cover any minor car repairs.!

1992 Mitsubishi - if anything major needs repairing it goes to the scrapyard (sorry for being off topic) :)

[percy]

1992 Mitsubishi - if anything major needs repairing it goes to the scrapyard (sorry for being off topic) :)

I apologise,I should have said any minor car repairs if your car was a Nissan or Toyota.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that upset you,be happy,as replacing cam belt,water pump .and full service, cost me over $1600 on my Mitsi L300 van today.!

[Beagle]

I am buying mainly for the dividend and the potential upside in SP. Over 5% for HBL vs 2.75% on my Rabosaver. Lets just hope my car will get its WOF next month.

Don't forget the HBL divvies are fully imputed so gross yield if they pay 8.5 cps in total this year is (8.5 / 159) /0.72 = 7.4%. (You can boot that 7.4% to 7.6% effective by taking shares in lieu of dividend at the 2.5% discount (7.4 / .975) At 8 cents annual divvy the gross yield is still circa 7%....plus earnings growth should translate to further SP growth. Looks like a pretty reasonable investment proposition to me.

[JeremyALD]

Don't forget the HBL divvies are fully imputed so gross yield if they pay 8.5 cps in total this year is (8.5 / 159) /0.72 = 7.4%. (You can boot that 7.4% to 7.6% effective by taking shares in lieu of dividend at the 2.5% discount (7.4 / .975) At 8 cents annual divvy the gross yield is still circa 7%....plus earnings growth should translate to further SP growth. Looks like a pretty reasonable investment proposition to me.

It's hard to argue the SPP isn't a bargain. Competely agree with you Roger! One of my favourite shares HBL :)

[Snoopy]

It's hard to argue the SPP isn't a bargain.

Skellerup at $1.53 gives you a better yield for a broadly comparable risk. That wasn't difficult to argue was it :-).

SNOOPY

[JeremyALD]

Skellerup at $1.53 gives you a better yield for a broadly comparable risk. That wasn't difficult to argue was it :-).

SNOOPY

There can be more than one bargain Snoopy.

[percy]

Skellerup at $1.53 gives you a better yield for a broadly comparable risk. That wasn't difficult to argue was it :-).

SNOOPY
"On the road to no where" [thank you Talking Heads]
If we look at the share price performance over the past few years it is easy to see which share Talking Heads were singing about.
Share price increase.....................1 year.............2 years...............5 years.
SKL.........................................16.67% .............12.41%................6.91%
HBL..........................................38.60 %...........17.91%.................267.44%.
I see no reason why HBL can not out perform SKL by the same margin over the next 5 years.
So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25.
Today..................SKL $1.53.......................HBL..............$1.59 .
So taking part in HBL's SPP will be well worth while.!

[Snoopy]

"On the road to no where" [thank you Talking Heads]
If we look at the share price performance over the past few years it is easy to see which share Talking Heads were singing about.
Share price increase.....................1 year.............2 years...............5 years.
SKL.........................................16.67% .............12.41%................6.91%
HBL..........................................38.60 %...........17.91%.................267.44%.
I see no reason why HBL can not out perform SKL by the same margin over the next 5 years.


Here's one reason. 'Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance'

SNOOPY

[h2so4]

"On the road to no where" [thank you Talking Heads]
If we look at the share price performance over the past few years it is easy to see which share Talking Heads were singing about.
Share price increase.....................1 year.............2 years...............5 years.
SKL.........................................16.67% .............12.41%................6.91%
HBL..........................................38.60 %...........17.91%.................267.44%.
I see no reason why HBL can not out perform SKL by the same margin over the next 5 years.
So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25.
Today..................SKL $1.53.......................HBL..............$1.59 .
So taking part in HBL's SPP will be well worth while.!
Might be worth considering moving back to NZ so I can participate.

[h2so4]

Here's one reason. 'Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance'

SNOOPY
Thats true SD but to date HBL has been my best performing share on the NZX and that includes EBO SCL SEK AWF AWK and RBD.

[h2so4]

........a star performer.

[percy]

Here's one reason. 'Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance'

SNOOPY

From the All Blacks to business," Past performance is the best indicator of present, and future performance."
It is called dependability,"quality people you can rely on."

[Snow Leopard]

Replacements:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9b/90/d5/9b90d5860fc06379f16c320ca1da3f71.png

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Baa_Baa]

Here's one reason. 'Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance'

SNOOPY

It might be good sport and entertaining reading, but I can't see the point in over dramatising or prolonging the 'either/or' discussion Snoops.

These guys are savvy investors andexpert traders as well (kudos to them), they'll be out at the first whiff of their exit signals, whatever they might be. In the meantime, we can enjoy their enthusiasm and optimism for the future. It's also nice to see a NZX success story and clever investors riding the wave. We can all learn from their forthright and at times strident disclosures.

Fortunately they're so honest and open as well, I fully expect that when (if?) the circumstances change, unlikely as that may seem presently, they will broadcast that, albeit after the fact of their exit.

[DarkHorse]

I apologise,I should have said any minor car repairs if your car was a Nissan or Toyota.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that upset you,be happy,as replacing cam belt,water pump .and full service, cost me over $1600 on my Mitsi L300 van today.!

Talking about cars to a Japanese guy yesterday, he mentioned Mitsis are virtually extinct in Japan nowadays :)

[h2so4]

Replacements:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9b/90/d5/9b90d5860fc06379f16c320ca1da3f71.png

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

LOL! I get it.
Seems enough to go around LOL!

ps just joking.

[BlackPeter]

"On the road to no where" [thank you Talking Heads]
If we look at the share price performance over the past few years it is easy to see which share Talking Heads were singing about.
Share price increase.....................1 year.............2 years...............5 years.
SKL.........................................16.67% .............12.41%................6.91%
HBL..........................................38.60 %...........17.91%.................267.44%.
I see no reason why HBL can not out perform SKL by the same margin over the next 5 years.
So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25.
Today..................SKL $1.53.......................HBL..............$1.59 .
So taking part in HBL's SPP will be well worth while.!

Sure percy ... HBL is a good share. Personally I think SKL is a good share as well, but with a different characteristic - it is cyclical. Comparing a cyclical share with non cyclical share based or somewhat arbitrary time windows does not make that much sense if it is a fair comparison you are after.

I remember times when SKL was at 47 cents - and look where they are now!

What I don't understand is ... why do you want to convince everybody to join into the HBL CR? It just means that everybody gets less shares due to increased scaling - or are you concerned that they have not enough applications to distribute the full allocation?

Discl: hold SKL and HBL (roughly same amounts ...)

[ziggy415]

Don't forget the HBL divvies are fully imputed so gross yield if they pay 8.5 cps in total this year is (8.5 / 159) /0.72 = 7.4%. (You can boot that 7.4% to 7.6% effective by taking shares in lieu of dividend at the 2.5% discount (7.4 / .975) At 8 cents annual divvy the gross yield is still circa 7%....plus earnings growth should translate to further SP growth. Looks like a pretty reasonable investment proposition to me.
Roger took some convincing to come over to the other side....still hope for snoopy yet

[Beagle]

It's hard to argue the SPP isn't a bargain. Competely agree with you Roger! One of my favourite shares HBL :)

To be honest I wouldn't call it a bargain at the current price but a good hold.


"On the road to no where" [thank you Talking Heads]
If we look at the share price performance over the past few years it is easy to see which share Talking Heads were singing about.
Share price increase.....................1 year.............2 years...............5 years.
SKL.........................................16.67% .............12.41%................6.91%
HBL..........................................38.60 %...........17.91%.................267.44%.
I see no reason why HBL can not out perform SKL by the same margin over the next 5 years.
So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25.
Today..................SKL $1.53.......................HBL..............$1.59 .
So taking part in HBL's SPP will be well worth while.!


From the All Blacks to business," Past performance is the best indicator of present, and future performance."
It is called dependability,"quality people you can rely on."

Well said Percy. No comparison between the two companies. One is growing EPS consistently, the other has been a classic cyclical going nowhere, in fact for the last decade ! Maybe the directors and management of SKL have that Talking Heads song on their car radio's in a constant repeat loop ? :D The two companies are as different as chalk and cheese...very surprised the other hound can't see that.

[percy]

Sure percy ... HBL is a good share. Personally I think SKL is a good share as well, but with a different characteristic - it is cyclical. Comparing a cyclical share with non cyclical share based or somewhat arbitrary time windows does not make that much sense if it is a fair comparison you are after.

I remember times when SKL was at 47 cents - and look where they are now!

What I don't understand is ... why do you want to convince everybody to join into the HBL CR? It just means that everybody gets less shares due to increased scaling - or are you concerned that they have not enough applications to distribute the full allocation?

Discl: hold SKL and HBL (roughly same amounts ...)

Investment is about allocation of capital.I look for sectors with tail winds,ie,retirement,health,tourism,and digital banking.I avoid sectors such as retail [yes hold a few HLG and LOV asx] and manufacturing in NZ.The likes of CAV,MGL,MVN,SCT,and SKL I think are dead ducks.I do not hold any of them.I try to invest in companies whose share price will double in 5 years.
HBL SPP>I am not trying to convince anyone,just stating what I intend to do.I have posted that I hold far too many HBL and even at $1.46 it will increase my average holding cost.I have also said I am just going to use our rainy day spare cash and take the dividend in cash .At $1.46 cum divie, I see a nice margin,as that works out at $1.425 and I think the sp will settle at over $1.50.Margin could be 5.2% in under a month.!!!!
Going forward I think the market is waking up to HBL's growth prospects.As you are well aware, the directors' speechs at the agm were very much,we have done the ground work,and have the products,now let the fun start.We are "well positioned."I do see HBL's share price at $2.Maybe in a year's time,or could be 2 years time. I don't mind which, as in the meantime I expect the fully imputed dividend will increase.

[percy]

To be honest I wouldn't call it a bargain at the current price but a good hold.
Yes,I feel the same,yet somehow I think we could get pleasant surprises on the upside.!



Well said Percy. No comparison between the two companies. One is growing EPS consistently, the other has been a classic cyclical going nowhere, in fact for the last decade ! Maybe the directors and management of SKL have that Talking Heads song on their car radio's in a constant repeat loop ? :D The two companies are as different as chalk and cheese...very surprised the other hound can't see that.
Yes hold,but I would expect any surprises will be on the upside.
Agree,about the no comparison.
The other hound.No comment.

[janner]

Investment is about allocation of capital.I look for sectors with tail winds,ie,retirement,health,tourism,and digital banking.I avoid sectors such as retail [yes hold a few HLG and LOV asx]and manufacturing in NZ.The likes of CAV,MGL,SCT,and SKL I think are dead ducks.I try to invest in companies whose share price will double in 5 years.
HBL SPP>I am not trying to convince anyone,just stating what I intend to do.I have posted that I hold far too many HBL and even at $1.46 it will increase my average holding cost.I have also said I am just going to use our rainy spare cash and take the dividend in cash .At $1.46 cum divie, I see a nice margin,as that works out at $1.425 and I think the sp will settle at over $1.50.Margin could be 5.2% in under a month.!!!!
Going forward I think the market is waking up to HBL's growth prospects.As you are well aware, the directors' speechs at the agm was very much,we have done the ground work,and have the products,now let the fun start.We are "well positioned."I do see HBL's share price at $2.Maybe in a year's time,or could be 2 years time. I don't mind which, as in the meantime I expect the fully imputed dividend will increase.

I think your previous comment Post 8815 " So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25. ".

A little ambitious perc.. That is one cent a week, every week for five years..

Happy holder.

[percy]

I think your previous comment Post 8815 " So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25. ".

A little ambitious perc.. That is one cent a week, every week for five years..

Happy holder.

On the number of shares you and I hold, one cent a week could be very serious fun.!!
Even one cent a month would still be serious fun.
While one cent every three months would be just fun.
We are well positioned for a lot of fun in our lives...lol.

[kizame]

I think your previous comment Post 8815 " So 2022.......... sp.SKL$1.63........................HBL............ ..$4.25. ".

A little ambitious perc.. That is one cent a week, every week for five years..

Happy holder.

It doesn't have to happen like that,a few flat weeks with some 10c rises would do just fine.

[kizame]

Only a matter of time before this stock pushes through resistance at 1.60,it's banging it's head again this morning. Then a nice slow meander to 1.80 would be nice.

[percy]

It doesn't have to happen like that,a few flat weeks with some 10c rises would do just fine.

Yes the odd few flat weeks would be acceptable...lol.
And I must admit the current share price strength surprises me.But then I am easily surprised.Just need another negative "fail" post from Snoopy, to push the sp through $1.60,then again it may do it anyhow.

[Beagle]

Roger took some convincing to come over to the other side....still hope for snoopy yet

Hounds usually run in packs so its curious how the other hound's always been way off trail from the hunt with this one.
I like running with tailwinds so previously enjoyed a marvelous run from mid 80 cent mark just after the credit rating upgrade in early 2014 to low 130's in early 2015 when dairy risks starting looking ominous.
Now I sense we're in a period of tailwinds again and maybe even a further credit rating upgrade is possible so am happy to be snapping up juicy dividends and capital gains again :)
Disc: Tail up and wagging, holding and applying for full $15K of shares under SPP and full participation in the dividend reinvestment scheme.

[janner]

On the number of shares you and I hold, one cent a week could be very serious fun.!!
Even one cent a month would still be serious fun.
While one cent every three months would be just fun.
We are well positioned for a lot of fun in our lives...lol.

Indeed.. Pity it is at the wrong end of it though.. Am trying my best where ever possible . :-)))

[King1212]

Does spp shares entitle for dividend as recorded date is 23rd march..the shares are issued before that...thanks.

[axe]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/253365.pdf :)



Does spp shares entitle for dividend as recorded date is 23rd march..the shares are issued before that...thanks.

[Snow Leopard]

So I have sold down a few HBL to make up the available cash to apply for the full $15K.

Add whatever I get in the SPP to all I can get in the DRP and I would be back to being overweight in HBL.

The cash back on the SPP will go into something else with, hopefully, even higher future returns. :t_up:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[silu]

Btw does anyone know when the unused money after scaling will be refunded?

[777]

3 to 4 days usually.

[silu]

3 to 4 days usually.

Thanks - that helps in adding perhaps a couple of thousand to my application.

[NZINOZ]

Hi everyone, I'm a first time poster but long time watcher of this thread. I am a kiwi living in Australia whose sons have a joint shareholding in HBL. We are wondering if anyone knows the best way to sell shares from in Australia? We were back in NZ a year or so ago and tried to sell them but they said as we were living in Australia we had to sell them here. Finding it difficult to locate a broker who will deal with NZ shares. Any suggestions?

[Snoopy]

Hounds usually run in packs so its curious how the other hound's always been way off trail from the hunt with this one.
I like running with tailwinds so previously enjoyed a marvelous run from mid 80 cent mark just after the credit rating upgrade in early 2014 to low 130's in early 2015 when dairy risks starting looking ominous.
Now I sense we're in a period of tailwinds again and maybe even a further credit rating upgrade is possible so am happy to be snapping up juicy dividends and capital gains again :)
Disc: Tail up and wagging, holding and applying for full $15K of shares under SPP and full participation in the dividend reinvestment scheme.


I think my reasons for not investing in Heartland have been well docmented. I have had a good holding in banking shares for years, mainly ANZ and WBC in my 'Ozzie' portfolio. I don't particularly want to be invested in three Australasian banks. So if I was to invest in Heartland, one of these would have to go. My WBC analysis is yet to come. But my snapshot comnparison with ANZ bank tells the story:



ANZHeartland


Return on shareholder Equity FY201611.8%10.7%


Net Profit Margin (Sustainable Profit/Gross Interest Revenue) FY201622.8%20.1%


Average NZ Gross Dividend (FY2013 to FY2017)= 7.66cps / 0.72 = 10.6cps


Average Aus Gross Dividend (FY2013 to FY2017) 7.66cps


Average NZ Gross Dividend (FY2012 to FY2016)$A1.524ps


Average Aus Gross Dividend (FY2012 to FY2016)$A1.986ps


Share Price 02-03-2017$A31.32$1.59


Average Gross NZ Yield 02-03-20174.87%6.66%


Average Gross Aus Yield 02-03-20176.34%4.82%



On the two operational measures that most matter, ANZ wins. The gross yield, thanks to NZ imputation credits is favourable for Heartland. However, if you reverse the perspective and look at what an Australian investor would see, ANZ offers the better yield (due to Aussie franking credits the Australians can access, while being unable to access our NZ imputation credits for Heartland). The value of ANZ shares is largely determined by Australian investors, and the value of HBL shares is largely determined by NZ investors. Looking at the home market yield comparison (Heartland 6.66% vs ANZ 6.34%) there is very little difference.

Heartland is getting better with time, this is true. But Heartland does not generate nearly as much cash as ANZ. Since formation Heartland has only paid a net 30% of their earnings as dividends (if you remove the capital value of the new shares issued from the total divdends declared). This isin't unusual for a growth company. But the return on all this new equity at Heartland is not that flash. Given that Heartland has been running with tailwinds since 2013, what happens to these 'not so flash' returns if the tailwind starts to lose its puff?

I'll keep watching Heartland for sure. But from an investment perspective going forwards, I think that I will get a better return by continuing to hold ANZ shares. At $1.59, the investment case for Heartland does not stack up for this bargain hunter.

SNOOPY

PS My previous comparison with SKL was somewhat spurious given HBL and SKL are in quite different business areas. But both shares had share prices in the $150s and both paid similar levels of dividends. So the comparison caught my eye.

[Toasty]

Hi everyone, I'm a first time poster but long time watcher of this thread. I am a kiwi living in Australia whose sons have a joint shareholding in HBL. We are wondering if anyone knows the best way to sell shares from in Australia? We were back in NZ a year or so ago and tried to sell them but they said as we were living in Australia we had to sell them here. Finding it difficult to locate a broker who will deal with NZ shares. Any suggestions?

Hi there. My suggestion would be to approach whichever bank you deal with and ask them about their share trading facilities. ANZ, for instance, runs a platform called ANZ Securities. This should definitely be available in Australia. Should be cheaper than a full service broker too.

https://shareinvesting.anz.com/InvestmentProducts/Default.aspx

I'm not from ANZ if that helps...

[Beagle]

Not much time at the minute Snoopy but please remind me again how EPS has grown comparing ANZ with HBL over the last five years.

As an aside I don't invest in Australian companies because this hound absolutely detests paying tax twice. The fact that N.Z. residents cannot claim Australian franking credits makes a complete mockery of so called closer economic relations.

[peat]

Hi everyone, I'm a first time poster but long time watcher of this thread. I am a kiwi living in Australia whose sons have a joint shareholding in HBL. We are wondering if anyone knows the best way to sell shares from in Australia? We were back in NZ a year or so ago and tried to sell them but they said as we were living in Australia we had to sell them here. Finding it difficult to locate a broker who will deal with NZ shares. Any suggestions?

We work with anyone who has a NZ IRD no, and a NZ bank account. Obviously subject to relevant AML laws and photo-ids etc
PM me

[percy]

A game of spot the difference.
Earnings per share,from www.4-traders.com
.................2014........2015.....2016.......2 017......2018.......2019..
ANZ............257.........257........189........2 35........245.........256.
CBA............519..........529.......530........5 58.........573.........592
NAB............215,,,,,,,,,,245.........15.5...... 243........247.........254
WBC...........237...........248........218........ 241........250.........254
Very difficult to spot any difference.Minimal if any growth.
Now should we add HBL's ???
HBL............9.............10...........11...... ....12.........13.1.........13.7.
And that is real eps growth.
EPS growth means HBL will have the capacity to continue to grow and pay increasing dividends.

Posted 29-1-2017
Still interesting.

[h2so4]

Hi everyone, I'm a first time poster but long time watcher of this thread. I am a kiwi living in Australia whose sons have a joint shareholding in HBL. We are wondering if anyone knows the best way to sell shares from in Australia? We were back in NZ a year or so ago and tried to sell them but they said as we were living in Australia we had to sell them here. Finding it difficult to locate a broker who will deal with NZ shares. Any suggestions?

I live in Australia and would be happy to do a share transfer for the purchase of their shares.. PM me

[Beagle]

Posted 29-1-2017
Still interesting.

HBL............9.............10...........11...... ....12.........13.........14.

Thanks Percy I remember seeing it somewhere. Tweaked those forecasted EPS numbers slightly to help my fellow hound gain the scent and get back on the hunt :)

[winner69]

Somebody pointed out to me that Heartland are getting $20m from shareholders this month and then a week or two paying a dividend worth $18m to shareholders. Seems stupid he said

I told him 'it's not stupid mate - that's how clever big businesses operate'. Don't think he was convinced

(Probably one less shareholder taking up the offer - good eh

[percy]

Somebody pointed out to me that Heartland are getting $20m from shareholders this month and then a week or two paying a dividend worth $18m to shareholders. Seems stupid he said

I told him 'it's not stupid mate - that's how clever big businesses operate'. Don't think he was convinced

(Probably one less shareholder taking up the offer - good eh

Snoopy.???????????????????????????????

[winner69]

Snoopy.???????????????????????????????

No no no .....not Snoopy

The guy who thinks the cap raising is stupid said if they need $20m why don't they just can the divie this time around and keep the cash. Would save a lot of paperwork and bother

Still haven't convinced him about that's how clever businesses work bit .....doubt whether he ever will.

[percy]

No no no .....not Snoopy

The guy who thinks the cap raising is stupid said if they need $20m why don't they just can the divie this time around and keep the cash. Would save a lot of paperwork and bother

Still haven't convinced him about that's how clever businesses work bit .....doubt whether he ever will.

Another of your Bowling Club "investors".?

[winner69]

Another of your Bowling Club "investors".?

No no no - a clever engineer type I was having a chat with

Hard to explain how something that does seem pretty stupid is actually quite clever though

[percy]

No no no - a clever engineer type I was having a chat with

Hard to explain how something that does seem pretty stupid is actually quite clever though

I guess clever engineers are a bit like those "investors", who drive to Wall Street in a Rolls Royce, to be advised by "advisors" who caught the subway to work.
Yet some very good CEOs have an engineering degree.!
Just as well you and I know HBL are doing the right thing,although it would need me to do a Snoopy book to explain it.And I do not do Snoopy books,or sell them.!
Simply put,HBL understand their shareholders,and act at all times to grow the business. and pay growing fully imputated dividends,while making sure their capital ratios remain capable to fund their growth,without having lazy excess capital.
Always trying to be the best bank.rather than the biggest.
And they are succeeding.

[SCOTTY]

I guess clever engineers are a bit like those "investors", who drive to Wall Street in a Rolls Royce, to be advised by "advisors" who caught the subway to work.
Yet some very good CEOs have an engineering degree.!
Just as well you and I know HBL are doing the right thing,although it would need me to do a Snoopy book to explain it.And I do not do Snoopy books,or sell them.!
Simply put,HBL understand their shareholders,and act at all times to grow the business. and pay growing fully imputated dividends,while making sure their capital ratios remain capable to fund their growth,without having lazy excess capital.
Always trying to be the best bank.rather than the biggest.
And they are succeeding.
If HBL isn't very very careful it will not only be the best bank but also the biggest bank in NZ :)

[winner69]

If HBL isn't very very careful it will not only be the best bank but also the biggest bank in NZ :)

esp if they didn't pay such high divies

If they reinvested divies and consistently made 12% ROE todays shareholder equity of $529m would be $5.1 billion in 20 years time ..... with a market cap of say over $8.0 billion ....share price $16 ....and a big bank

Just mathematics - nothing clever in that - and miles away from reality eh

[percy]

esp if they didn't pay such high divies

If they reinvested divies and consistently made 12% ROE todays shareholder equity of $529m would be $5.1 billion in 20 years time ..... with a market cap of say over $8.0 billion ....share price $16 ....and a big bank

Maintain current dividend payout ratios and shareholder equity increases to only $1.1 billion in 20 years time ..... maybe shareprice $2.50

Just mathematics - nothing clever in that - and miles away from reality eh

Yes miles away.
If you are happy not receiving ongoing growing dividends,then HBL is not for you.
Maybe Berkshire Hathaway would suit better.

[winner69]

Another of your Bowling Club "investors".?

I mentioned to him that it's better to own the bank than to deposit money in it ......so they are now beginning to 'invest' in Heartland

[winner69]

Maybe we should get Snoops to do one his famous Buffett type tables as to see what generates greater return for shareholders over the years assuming a consistent ROE but with different payout ratios.

[percy]

Maybe we should get Snoops to do one his famous Buffett type tables as to see what generates greater return for shareholders over the years assuming a consistent ROE but with different payout ratios.

Think you are best to send him a PM .!!!!.....lol.
In reality investors must decide where to allocate their capital.
We have companies such as HBL and RYM.Both have ROE of over 10% and yet have very different dividend payout ratios.
Each company retains a certain % of profit to reinvest in their business.
It is very doubtful that investors could earn more than those companies', over 10%,so investors would be better to take no dividends from either company.
Yet the directors of both companies realise that in NZ ,very few investors would invest in them should they pay no dividend,
Over the past few years were have seen the market gravitate to high yielding stocks,to the point we have seen some posters on sharetrader, compare HBL with the Australian banks, solely on yield.I would think the directors of HBL are fully aware of this,and decide of dividend payout ratios taking that in mind,as well as their desire to grow the business.

[Beagle]

So I have sold down a few HBL to make up the available cash to apply for the full $15K.

Add whatever I get in the SPP to all I can get in the DRP and I would be back to being overweight in HBL.

The cash back on the SPP will go into something else with, hopefully, even higher future returns. :t_up:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Good arbitrage and I think a few people followed suit which would explain a little of the SP softness lately. Others just dipped into our petty cash fund for the 15K :p

[percy]

Softness????????????????
I have been surprised by the share price strength.!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beagle]

Got down to $1.56 in the last few days at one point I think Percy. Strength is relative...has been hovering around $1.50 for many, many months so the recent spurt up to $1.60 was probably overdue.
$1.59-$1.60 feels about right to me...for now :) Onward and upward... $1.80 by Christmas !

[percy]

Got down to $1.56 in the last few days at one point I think Percy. Strength is relative...has been hovering around $1.50 for many, many months so the recent spurt up to $1.60 was probably overdue.
$1.59-$1.60 feels about right to me...for now :) Onward and upward... $1.80 by Christmas !

Please wake me when the share price hits $2.00..........................lol.

[Jim]

Just filled in the maximum shares of 15k application

[Xerof]

Just filled in the maximum shares of 15k application

Too late, closed Friday
.
.
.
.
.
.





joking

percy, have you asked how much SPP money is sitting in the holding account? - if it's >100m, I'll scream, we'll scream, we all like ice cream

[percy]

[
percy, have you asked how much SPP money is sitting in the holding account? - if it's >100m, I'll scream, we'll scream, we all like ice cream[/QUOTE]

I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
I wonder how many people sold a few a couple of weeks ago, and brought 500 shares for each of their children,so they could apply for a multiple number of applications in the SPP.?
Wisely I think it is no longer possible to apply for your cats' and dogs' names,which will affect people like Roger .
Our rainy day fund has been under pressure lately [daughters],so I had only enough funds to apply for $7,500 for my wife,and the same amount for myself.

[JeremyALD]

[
percy, have you asked how much SPP money is sitting in the holding account? - if it's >100m, I'll scream, we'll scream, we all like ice cream

I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
I wonder how many people sold a few a couple of weeks ago, and brought 500 shares for each of their children,so they could apply for a multiple number of applications in the SPP.?
Wisely I think it is no longer possible to apply for your cats' and dogs' names,which will affect people like Roger .
Our rainy day fund has been under pressure lately [daughters],so I had only enough funds to apply for $7,500 for my wife,and the same amount for myself.[/QUOTE]

I hope your daughter appreciates that you've given up extra HBL shares for her Percy! :)

[percy]

I hope your daughter appreciates that you've given up extra HBL shares for her Percy! :)

Life is funny.I spent years following the markets with no capital to invest,and worrying about retirement.Slowly found a little bit of capital,buying a few hundred dollars of shares,and the rest is as they say history.
The wife and I do not have a family trust.We now find we have more capital than we need.The daughters in the meantime are struggling,so we decided to give them a good bit of their inheritance now.
ps.Still are over weighted in HBL.

[Xerof]

I think the share registry get the interest on it,not HBL.?
percy, my scream was more about the degree of scaling, not the interest being earned

8731

and good on you for doing what you are doing for your daughters

I have declared my 16 budgies as passed away to the IRD, and filed final returns for them (not)

[Beagle]

God's honest truth Percy, I simply couldn't be bothered with all the paperwork splitting my holding up into different entities including my dogs. Only applied for $15K in my name. Rest assured although my dogs aren't HBL sharehoilders I can still afford to give Basil and Skippy their full allocation of dog food :)

[percy]

Sorry to go off topic yet again,but on one of the Australian threads a few years ago, one poster admitted he held 1 share in hundreds of companies,so he could take part in any SPP if they had one.
Skippy.? Basil? Fine names.

[JeremyALD]

Sorry to go off topic yet again,but on one of the Australian threads a few years ago, one poster admitted he held 1 share in hundreds of companies,so he could take part in any SPP if they had one.
Skippy.? Basil? Fine names.

That seems a bit desperate lol, but maybe it's smart.

Question for you... can you participate in the SPP and then sell the shares the next day, instantly making 4%? If so that seems a bit crazy!

[Jantar]

....
Question for you... can you participate in the SPP and then sell the shares the next day, instantly making 4%? If so that seems a bit crazy!You certainly can, but why would you?

Hold them for a month and get the dividend, with the DRP and you make 5%, then sell them and it becomes 9%

[percy]

Some dates.
SPP. closes 5pm 10th March.
.....shares allotted 15th March.
....15th March spp shares will commence trading.
.....Holding statements despatched 5 days after allotment date.
Dividend.
23rd March ex dividend.
7th April dividend payable.
So JeremyALD if you sold after the ex dividend date,you would also receive the divie.
Then againif you sell you will miss out on the celebrations when the shares hit $2.00....lol.

[NZSilver]

If everyshareholder applies for 15k, how many shares would we get? I can't find the total number of shareholders.

[JeremyALD]

Some dates.
SPP. closes 5pm 10th March.
.....shares allotted 15th March.
....15th March spp shares will commence trading.
.....Holding statements despatched 5 days after allotment date.
Dividend.
23rd March ex dividend.
7th April dividend payable.
So JeremyALD if you sold after the ex dividend date,you would also receive the divie.
Then againif you sell you will miss out on the celebrations when the shares hit $2.00....lol.

Thanks for the info Percy. I'm not selling them but it further shows that this SPP is a bit of a bargain :)

[Joshuatree]

Got a reminder email last nite so hopefully uptake is low ;I'm mean why would you tie your funds up just to then get most of it back; no brainer.

[percy]

If everyshareholder applies for 15k, how many shares would we get? I can't find the total number of shareholders.

Will have changed, but on the 19th August 2016, there were 10,743 shareholders.

[percy]

Got a reminder email last nite so hopefully uptake is low ;I'm mean why would you tie your funds up just to then get most of it back; no brainer.

Totally agree.!
But then I used to buy a Lotto ticket each week.
Better odds with HBL's SPP.?.

[Joshuatree]

Yeah I applied for the max . looks like i will get $13000 plus back. Will treat myself to a rare lotto ticket then not check the numbers lol

[BlackPeter]

Yeah I applied for the max . looks like i will get $13000 plus back. Will treat myself to a rare lotto ticket then not check the numbers lol

I wouldn't be that pessimistic ... Not every holder can put up the full 15k - and many might not bother. Personally I expect to get more something like 5k worth in shares (i.e. 2/3 scaling) ... and my broker even thought it might be up to 10k (i.e. only 1/3 scaling ... but hey - he is an optimist :)).

[Beagle]

I'm philosophical about it..whatever I get is what I get. I pulled funds from an account earning a "whopping" 1.5% per annum less resident withholding tax so if I get most of my money back and only a small handful of shares at $1.46 I'll still be well ahead and it took me a whopping 3 minutes to go online and complete the form. (Don't start me on the BNZ charging me $5 for a new direct debit authority though to facilitate electronic payment).

[RGR367]

Better submit your application on the latest day possible especially if you're on the margin lending account as the moment my application reached my broker, he whacked $15K right away from that account of mine. As there's no guarantee of getting the maximum shares, that debited amount is contributing to the big hole on my account :scared:

[Snow Leopard]

So that is $15,000 gone from the Cash Management Account with a transaction description of 'So long, and thanks for all the fish'.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Joshuatree]

Was thinking the same thing driving home tonight; wheres the checks and lock symbols etc; how do they have permission to just take the dough out without signing auto payment authority forms etc?First time I've done it this way. Greed is gullible ehh:ohmy:

[RGR367]

So that is $15,000 gone from the Cash Management Account with a transaction description of 'So long, and thanks for all the fish'.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

You can read it that way :) but they transacted it in a more civilized way by stating "transfer HBL SPP #.... " GL too if you are participating. But you're a crazy cat if you're not :p

[percy]

Posted our SPP forms last Thursday.
Was a little concerned they may get held up in the post.
Just checked my bank a/c and see the money was withdrawn last night,so as usual I find myself "well positioned".

[JeremyALD]

Was thinking the same thing driving home tonight; wheres the checks and lock symbols etc; how do they have permission to just take the dough out without signing auto payment authority forms etc?First time I've done it this way. Greed is gullible ehh:ohmy:

Even worse I gave them the wrong account number the first time and they tried to withdraw from that. Then I emailed them the new number and shortly after the 15K was gone! No signing or anything.

[winner69]

WMP down 12% in dairy auction overnight

Just as well there is no relationship between WMP price and Heartland share price eh Roger .....things have changed eh

[Beagle]

WMP down 12% in dairy auction overnight

Just as well there is no relationship between WMP price and Heartland share price eh Roger .....things have changed eh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7CeTXoxyU

[trader_jackson]

WMP down 12% in dairy auction overnight

Just as well there is no relationship between WMP price and Heartland share price eh Roger .....things have changed eh

Yea, clearly no relationship because otherwise Heartland would be at $2 already ;)

[winner69]

Yea, clearly no relationship because otherwise Heartland would be at $2 already ;)


Maybe by Christmas .......Christmas 2019

[percy]

Maybe by Christmas .......Christmas 2019

On its way to $2.00 the HBL share price will be $1.96 at 4.35 pm on Thursday 21st of September this year.
Unfortunately, we may then have to until mid morning on the 31st of January 2018. for it to go through $2.00.

ps I really don't mind waiting.

[winner69]

On its way to $2.00 the HBL share price will be $1.96 at 4.35 pm on Thursday 21st of September this year.
Unfortuneately we may then have to until mid morning on the 31st of January 2018 for it to go through $2.00.

ps I really don't mind waiting.

We'll see .....

[percy]

We'll see .....

Off course I may be wrong,and a Chinese Bank could decide to make a takeover bid over $2.00 within the next 6 weeks or months?.

[winner69]

Off course I may be wrong,and a Chinese Bank could decide to make a takeover bid over $2.00 within the next 6 weeks or months?.

Now we are talking sense

Hope this happens sooner or later - would be a great outcome

[BlackPeter]

Now we are talking sense

Hope this happens sooner or later - would be a great outcome

Not sure I would call that a "great outcome". While it might happen - what would be great about us selling all of our best companies to foreign investors? I'd prefer to keep them listed and in NZ hands.

A great outcome for me would be HBL merging with Kiwibank and TSB to form NZ's greatest bank with many happy shareholders. Make New Zealand great again!

[Joshuatree]

Hear hear. Who'd be crazy enough to want sell their soul(&heart) to the devil, in a manner of speaking; Avarice maybe?

[silu]

Not sure I would call that a "great outcome". While it might happen - what would be great about us selling all of our best companies to foreign investors? I'd prefer to keep them listed and in NZ hands.

A great outcome for me would be HBL merging with Kiwibank and TSB to form NZ's greatest bank with many happy shareholders. Make New Zealand great again!

Wouldn't a HBL/Kiwibank merger finally lay rest to the problem that Kiwibank can't get adequate funding to really become one of NZ's biggest banks?

[macduffy]

Wouldn't a HBL/Kiwibank merger finally lay rest to the problem that Kiwibank can't get adequate funding to really become one of NZ's biggest banks?

It may help but I wouldn't think that that alone would make the merged entity one of NZ's biggest banks, nor would it automatically provide the funding, both equity and debt, that big, growing banks constantly need. Good for Kiwibank perhaps but less so for Heartland, I would think.

[beetills]

I hope that it becomes a target of an Australian Bank like Bendigo& Adelaide looking to jump the ditch.

[Beagle]

I hope that it becomes a target of an Australian Bank like Bendigo& Adelaide looking to jump the ditch.

The last thing we need is another Aussie or Chinese owned bank stripping profit out of the country. Keep it locally owned I say !

[winner69]

Hear hear. Who'd be crazy enough to want sell their soul(&heart) to the devil, in a manner of speaking; Avarice maybe?

No more avaricious then people's wish to see a $2 share price sooner than later.

[Joshuatree]

The last thing we need is another Aussie or Chinese owned bank stripping profit out of the country. Keep it locally owned I say !
Yep gotta put whats good for NZ ahead of greed; a win/win,raise the bar!

[percy]

No more avaricious then people's wish to see a $2 share price sooner than later.

"A case of the pot calling the kettle black."........................lol.

[winner69]

"A case of the pot calling the kettle black."........................lol.

That was what I was thinking when another fellow poster implied I was avaricious ...........lol

[percy]

That was what I was thinking when another fellow poster implied I was avaricious ...........lol

.........Another poster?
Sounds more like Bowling Club language to me.!!....................lol.

[winner69]

.........Another poster?
Sounds more like Bowling Club language to me.!!....................lol.

.....didn't want to name names .....might have upset the offender

But I don't mind being called avaricious - aren't we all?

[percy]

.....didn't want to name names .....might have upset the offender

But I don't mind being called avaricious - aren't we all?

No..............................!!!!!!!!!!!!...... ...........lol.

[Snow Leopard]

avaricious - the desire to have lots of big bird cages.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[iceman]

The last thing we need is another Aussie or Chinese owned bank stripping profit out of the country. Keep it locally owned I say !

Agree Roger.
Merger with Kiwbiank, takeover by a Chinese or Aussie Bank ? No thanks.
We are doing fine by focusing on growth in niche areas such as reverse mortgages and digital platform lending. Lets stay focused on that and continue growing this great little business.
Continue buying parts or all of businesses that enhance that strategy ? Yes please.

[Joshuatree]

Foreign ownership nears 50% (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/326190/foreign-ownership-nears-50-percent) If you want to hollow out and shaft your own country for a short term gain; well listening to this on national radio or reading it here will inform one thats its not a good idea for Heartland and other NZ businesses or NZ.

[winner69]

Foreign ownership nears 50% (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/326190/foreign-ownership-nears-50-percent) If you want to hollow out and shaft your own country for a short term gain; well listening to this on national radio or reading it here will inform one thats its not a good idea for Heartland and other NZ businesses or NZ.

You can support them here

Only want $20 pa

http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/community/CAFCA/join-cafca.html

[winner69]

Or if you are really concerned how about gifting your Heartland shares in your will

http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/community/CAFCA/will.html

[Joshuatree]

Good on you mate; glad your after shave isn't O De Dollars:D

[Beagle]

Just a small matter but nonetheless perhaps somewhat significant I noted in the half year report they were converting across Australian earnings at 98 point something cents and we're now at 91 point something.
A 10% boost in Australian earnings due to the new lower exchange rate is not an entirely trivial matter.

[macduffy]

Do we know how profitable the Australian operations are? I can't seem to find the number.

:(

[winner69]

Just a small matter but nonetheless perhaps somewhat significant I noted in the half year report they were converting across Australian earnings at 98 point something cents and we're now at 91 point something.
A 10% boost in Australian earnings due to the new lower exchange rate is not an entirely trivial matter.

How much they make in Australia

[Beagle]

Let's ask the Oracle of all things HBL...come in Percy.

[percy]

I do not know how profitable Australia is for HBL.
The REL business is growing faster there than in NZ.
At 30/6/2016 they had a banking facility with CBA of $379 mil and approx $440 mil Credit risk exposure in Australia.
They match their Australian risk with Australian borowings,so there is no currency exposure.
It is just accounting for the Australian profit.
This profit will increase as the REL business continues to grow,plus profits from Spotcap exposure,and profits from other products HBL make avaliable in Australia.
.

[Beagle]

Thanks Percy.

[macduffy]

Yes, thanks Percy. Aust credit risks form a very minor part of the business at this stage - plenty of room to grow!

[Jantar]

Even worse I gave them the wrong account number the first time and they tried to withdraw from that. Then I emailed them the new number and shortly after the 15K was gone! No signing or anything.
I applied for the full $15k on Wednesday, and as of this morning the money is still in my bank. Appears they are quicker with some than with others.

[JeremyALD]

I applied for the full $15k on Wednesday, and as of this morning the money is still in my bank. Appears they are quicker with some than with others.

You might want to call them just in case as the close off is today.

[Jerry]

Check your bank account allows Direct Debits. That can be the problem, if it can't.

[Jantar]

Check your bank account allows Direct Debits. That can be the problem, if it can't.
My does allow direct debits. Its how I pay all of my regular bills. Have received an email from Link saying that it will be deducted tonight.

[Food4Thought]

Not sure I would call that a "great outcome". While it might happen - what would be great about us selling all of our best companies to foreign investors? I'd prefer to keep them listed and in NZ hands.

A great outcome for me would be HBL merging with Kiwibank and TSB to form NZ's greatest bank with many happy shareholders. Make New Zealand great again!

Make NZ great again:) I like this slogan and the concept with NZ owned bank. Exited my ASB largely and am looking to exit elsewhere and convert to NZ Banks.

[Jim]

I applied for the full $15k on Wednesday, and as of this morning the money is still in my bank. Appears they are quicker with some than with others.

I filled in the direct debit details to them on Tuesday and my 15k disappeared from my cheque on Thursday.http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/icons/icon6.png

[kura]

Make NZ great again:) I like this slogan and the concept with NZ owned bank. Exited my ASB largely and am looking to exit elsewhere and convert to NZ Banks.

Trouble with that (for me) is that I use ASB for online share trading.

Disc: Been with ASB since primary school, back when you would give teacher a few pennies/cents to be deposited into your passbook savings account. Seems a pity that scheme was abandoned, as gave kids the right message.

[macduffy]

They wouldn't let me trade shares online when I was at primary school.

;)

[percy]

Trouble with that (for me) is that I use ASB for online share trading.

Disc: Been with ASB since primary school, back when you would give teacher a few pennies/cents to be deposited into your passbook savings account. Seems a pity that scheme was abandoned, as gave kids the right message.
I think some banks and some schools still do it.
I saw Heartland were doing it at Longbeach school,near Ashburton, last time I was there, about a year ago,and have seen ASB at a number of schools.Can't remember which schools,but some could have been on The West Coast.

[kura]

They wouldn't let me trade shares online when I was at primary school.

;)

He He If I told someone I was "online" back then, the assumption would have been I was on a telephone.

Recall going to shops recently with a mate & his grandson, for some reason I wanted some cash out of ATM, & the kid was amazed, his comment was "Wow, you got all that money & it didn't cost you a cent" (Life can be cruel )

[winner69]

Obviously white men not an 'endangered species' at Heartland.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/11/call-to-boycott-tesco-over-endangered-white-men-claim


Board - 2 female / 7 male

Management team - 2 female / 9 male.

And looking at the pictures ethnicity is ......well you be the judge

Not proud of my company - people who run it not really 'representative' of their customer base (although cynically one could say the seniors are well represented on the Board)

[percy]

Obviously white men not an 'endangered species' at Heartland.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/11/call-to-boycott-tesco-over-endangered-white-men-claim


Board - 2 female / 7 male

Management team - 2 female / 9 male.

And looking at the pictures ethnicity is ......well you be the judge

Not proud of my company - people who run it not really 'representative' of their customer base (although cynically one could say the seniors are well represented on the Board)

We are very lucky as investors/shareholders.
If we do not like any directors or management of a business, we can avoid buying shares in it,or sell anytime.
Same if we do not like any announcements,change of direction,sector changes,ethnicity of board/management/staff, the company's outlook,etc.
I have a list of directors I will not invest in any company they are connected with.
My largest investment, by far,is Heartland Bank,so that means I am very impressed by the board/management/staff make up.The fact they have large shareholdings means they are shareholder focussed.All announcements have been positive.The outlook is very positive.
So my judgement is, HBL is worthy of being my largest investment.

[waikare]

We are very lucky as investors/shareholders.
If we do not like any directors or management of a business, we can avoid buying shares in it,or sell anytime.
Same if we do not like any announcements,change of direction,sector changes,ethnicity of board/management/staff, the company's outlook,etc.
I have a list of directors I will not invest in any company they are connected with.
My largest investment, by far,is Heartland Bank,so that means I am very impressed by the board/management/staff make up.The fact they have large shareholdings means they are shareholder focussed.All announcements have been positive.The outlook is very positive.
So my judgement is, HBL is worthy of being my largest investment.

Percy would you like to share your list of company directors that you have in your little black book and as to why they have a black mark against their name.

[percy]

Percy would you like to share your list of company directors that you have in your little black book and as to why they have a black mark against their name.
There is a thread with directors to avoid somewhere on Sharetrader.
Would some kind poster please find it for me.
In the meantime,Jenny Shipley/Ruth Richardson [women first for W69] and any ex politiician,male,female,undecided, or it.
I will add names, if it is not up to date,but not reasons,as I could get sued.

[Brovendell]

Search the thread "Tainted Directors"
Cheers

[waikare]

Will agree with you Percy regarding ex politicians, regardless of their shape size colour beliefs, or whatever do not make good board members.



There is a thread with directors to avoid somewhere on Sharetrader.
Would some kind poster please find it for me.
In the meantime,Jenny Shipley/Ruth Richardson [women first for W69] and any ex politiician,male,female,undecided, or it.
I will add names, if it is not up to date,but not reasons,as I could get sued.

[kizame]

Obviously white men not an 'endangered species' at Heartland.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/11/call-to-boycott-tesco-over-endangered-white-men-claim


Board - 2 female / 7 male

Management team - 2 female / 9 male.

And looking at the pictures ethnicity is ......well you be the judge

Not proud of my company - people who run it not really 'representative' of their customer base (although cynically one could say the seniors are well represented on the Board)

The best people for the job! taking all things into consideration, never mind the gender or race.

[percy]

Search the thread "Tainted Directors"
Cheers

Thank you Brovendell.
I have added two names to the list.

[percy]

The best people for the job! taking all things into consideration, never mind the gender or race.

That certainly describes Heartland Bank's board,management and staff.

[winner69]

The best people for the job! taking all things into consideration, never mind the gender or race.

One of the two females on Heartland's Management Team is the Chief HR person

Obviously best person for the job eh kizame ........but interesting that many Chief HR roles in NZ are female (a disproportionate number I reckon)

Seems that's the only role that females are generally 'best' at

Maybe its those caring maternal instincts that suit that role - now I'm going to be crucified again and prob be accused of being sexist.

[percy]

One of the two females on Heartland's Management Team is the Chief HR person

Obviously best person for the job eh kizame ........but interesting that many Chief HR roles in NZ are female (a disproportionate number I reckon)

Seems that's the only role that females are generally 'best' at

Maybe its those caring maternal instincts that suit that role - now I'm going to be crucified again and prob be accused of being sexist.

Always pleasing seeing the best/most capable/suited person getting the job.

[silu]

Well I could only apply for $7500 so that didn't bring me much.

The SPP received very strong shareholder support, with Heartland receiving
applications totalling $62,117,500, exceeding the offer size of $20,000,000
by $42,117,500 or 211%. In accordance with the terms of the SPP, Heartland
will scale back all applications on a proportionate basis by reference to the
size of each application. For example, this means that a shareholder who
applied for $15,000 of shares will receive $4,829.56 of shares after scaling,
which is equal to 3,308 shares at the issue price (rounded up to the nearest
whole number of shares).

Allotment of the SPP shares is expected to occur on 15 March 2017, with
refunds paid to shareholders by either direct credit or by cheque within 5
business days of the allotment date. No interest will be paid on any
application monies returned to shareholders.

[BlackPeter]

Bugger - they asked for $20m and ended up with more than $62m. Whoever applied for $15k worth of shares will end up with 3308 shares worth $4829.56 ... and the rest reimbursed in cash.

I don't enjoy having been right (estimating that I get roughly $5k worth of shares ...)


The SPP received very strong shareholder support, with Heartland receiving
applications totalling $62,117,500, exceeding the offer size of $20,000,000
by $42,117,500 or 211%. In accordance with the terms of the SPP, Heartland
will scale back all applications on a proportionate basis by reference to the
size of each application. For example, this means that a shareholder who
applied for $15,000 of shares will receive $4,829.56 of shares after scaling,
which is equal to 3,308 shares at the issue price (rounded up to the nearest
whole number of shares).


https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4385363

[trader_jackson]

Looks like that extra 42m will just have to buy on market as well?
You'd think the share price would be well supported :)

[777]

It is a wonder in this day and age that we had to front up with the $15,000. They could easily have just direct debited the provided account number on allotment date for the exact amount.

[Xerof]

A little naive if anyone thought they'd get 15k on application, and a lot won't now buy on market. I was prepared to put up 15k to get a much lesser amount, (I thought it might have been even less than 4.8k TBH) but will invest the refund elsewhere. I think many others will too. Just the nature of the game with SPP's and IPO's

[trader_jackson]

Looks like that extra 42m will just have to buy on market as well?
You'd think the share price would be well supported :)

I note the share price opened at an all time high, $1.61. Over 10% above the SPP price... luckily they boosted it to 20m and didn't stick with 10m!

[JeremyALD]

Im pretty happy with around 5K. I was thinking it might be less.

I needed some more cash to invest in RBD and ATM anyway hehe

[winner69]

I note the share price opened at an all time high, $1.61. Over 10% above the SPP price... luckily they boosted it to 20m and didn't stick with 10m!

Euphoric times - irrational exuberance - bubble territory

[Beagle]

I note the share price opened at an all time high, $1.61. Over 10% above the SPP price... luckily they boosted it to 20m and didn't stick with 10m!

Agreed. At $1.61 a 15 cent premium to the issue price those applying for $15,000 worth of shares and receiving 3308 shares were just handed the opportunity to arbitrage a profit of $496.20 before brokerage. I will be holding the extra shares for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile on the other $10,170.44 based on a call account interest rate at ANZ securities of 1.5% before tax and taking on average two weeks to refund the money the lost interest = (10.170.44 x 1.5% x 14) / 365 = $5.85 before tax.

As you've mentioned it was good that they expanded the pool to 20m shares, if they hadn't I feel shareholders would have had a legitimate grievance considering the original size of the institutional pool was 20m.

I think the above is a fair and quite satisfactory outcome.

[winner69]

Agreed. At $1.61 a 15 cent premium to the issue price those applying for $15,000 worth of shares and receiving 3308 shares were just handed the opportunity to arbitrage a profit of $496.20 before brokerage. I will be holding the extra shares for the foreseeable future.

.

Last time I got manna from heaven was Trilogy - took the bonus thousands and ran (avaricious behaviour eh)

Roger - no free lunch, I'd take the money and run

[Beagle]

Nah...unlike the manna from heaven that the Israelites had to eat fresh every day or it turned to maggots this manna is like good wine, gets better with age and its the gift you give yourself by keeping it and it keeps giving back with the first installment only weeks away :) $500 return for 3 minutes work form filling online...wish my practice ran that way :D

[Jantar]

Im pretty happy with around 5K. I was thinking it might be less.

I needed some more cash to invest in RBD and ATM anyway hehe
I was hoping for a few more, but I couldn't really afford the full $15k I applied for, and if I had received the full amount then I would have been selling some straight away. As it is I will probably be buying a few more when the refund comes through.

[Joshuatree]

Spot on BP:t_up:; happy with my allotment, happy with my NZ company, happy with the sun out, better get the mower out.:ohmy:

[iceman]

Exactly 777. It has become a big disincentive to partake in SPPs where we are offered to apply for decent amounts paid up front, amounts that more often than not are largely refunded.

In this case the result is pretty much as I expected and both allottment and refunds being done fairly swiftly. But surely it is time to change this process. May be an issue to bring to the Shareholders Association!?

[RTM]

Imagine the shambles if they did not have the money up front!
Some who applied for them would not have the money in their account. And then they would have to try to fairly re-allocate the shares not taken up.

While I don't like it either...it's probably the cleanest way to do business. Given that Heartland is a bank, it's a pity they couldn't give us some interest while holding the funds.. although as Roger pointed out, the amount is not really significant.

[percy]

Exactly 777. It has become a big disincentive to partake in SPPs where we are offered to apply for decent amounts paid up front, amounts that more often than not are largely refunded.

In this case the result is pretty much as I expected and both allottment and refunds being done fairly swiftly. But surely it is time to change this process. May be an issue to bring to the Shareholders Association!?
Yes very much as expected.
And agree it would be an issue The Shareholders Assn could have some input with NZX about.
I have never liked SPPs, and have only used spare "rainy day" money for them,if I have been bothered to apply at all.

[iceman]

RTM & Roger as I understand it, it is the Registry that holds the funds, not the listed company. In this case Link Market Services. But I don't think interest is the issue. It is the opportunity cost of the funds earmarked for the SPP and no doubt there are many SH now disappointed that they could have afforde $4.8k but not $15k.

Anyway my "debate" is not specific to this SPP which has been clear and swift and I am happy with my allocation It's about whether we can not have a better process for SPPs in the future and probably belongs to a separate thread 😀

[NZSilver]

Ahhh they should have taken 40 million! didn't even need to get those cheeky institutional fellas onboard

[SCOTTY]

A renouncible rights issue would have been a far fairer system and obviously it would have been well supported.

[iceman]

Hear hear Scotty

[h2so4]

Be thankful they didn't extend the issue to foreign investors.

[percy]

A renouncible rights issue would have been a far fairer system and obviously it would have been well supported.

Agree....................

[Snow Leopard]

I will take the 3308 at $1.46, some more in the DRP and be thankful for the small profit.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Harvey Specter]

Have the announced how the scaling is being done or are you just assuming it is 1/3 since 3x oversubscribed.

[Beagle]

I will take the 3308 at $1.46, some more in the DRP and be thankful for the small profit.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

The Hound and Paper Tiger are in perfect harmony on this issue.

Some perspective. Honestly, people have just been handed a $500 free lunch for 3 minutes online filling a form out that could not have been a simpler exercise.

RTM has nailed it. Share registries cannot do allocations and do these issues on the basis of talk, (saying you have the money). Proving you have the money is the only practical basis upon which they can definitively allocate shares.

Of course a renounceable rights issue would be fairer but there will be sound reasons they didn't go down that route such as the probably substantial extra costs the NZX would impose.

[Jantar]

Have the announced how the scaling is being done or are you just assuming it is 1/3 since 3x oversubscribed.
https://www.nzx.com/companies/HBL/announcements/298171

"The SPP received very strong shareholder support, with Heartland receiving applications totalling $62,117,500, exceeding the offer size of $20,000,000 by $42,117,500 or 211%. In accordance with the terms of the SPP, Heartland will scale back all applications on a proportionate basis by reference to the size of each application. For example, this means that a shareholder who applied for $15,000 of shares will receive $4,829.56 of shares after scaling, which is equal to 3,308 shares at the issue price (rounded up to the nearest whole number of shares)."

[Snow Leopard]

A quick look back to Mar 14 and I notice that the $15,000 I threw at them then got me 4,289 shares @ $0.8541 ( $3,663 ).

They were looking to raise $5M and got $20M475

So a better SPP this time % wise.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Jaa]

A renouncible rights issue would have been a far fairer system and obviously it would have been well supported.

This is the gold standard in capital raising.

Directors should be asked why they persist with SPPs..

[fish]

I will take the 3308 at $1.46, some more in the DRP and be thankful for the small profit.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

PT are you saying that a small profit will be made on the DRP?
This will be my first dividend from Heartland Bank and I am not sure how they normally set the share price
Thanks

[Snow Leopard]

PT are you saying that a small profit will be made on the DRP?
This will be my first dividend from Heartland Bank and I am not sure how they normally set the share price
Thanks

Sorry, badly worded and you have to know the context.

The DRP price is set as a 2.5% discount to some sort of average of 5 days trading after it goes ex-div next week.

By selling $10,000 on market so that I had the cash to apply for $15,000 in the SPP I have bought 3,308 of what I sold for $1.59 back for $1.46.

It is likely that the DRP shares will cost me slightly less than $1.59 as well.


Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[fish]

Thanks for that clarification.
I will now participate in the DRP and consider selling a few in the 5 days after ex-div

Best wishes

[Snow Leopard]

Thanks for that clarification.
I will now participate in the DRP and consider selling a few in the 5 days after ex-div

Best wishes

I would suggest that trying to arbitrage a DRiP is not worth the candle.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Beagle]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nzsa-heartland-bank-placement-and-spp-%E2%80%9Cgrossly-unfair%E2%80%9D-jr-p-200626

Looks like those of you who feel aggrieved by the terms of the SPP have an ally.

[forest]

Roger whats your view of it? Not like you to not have an opinion! :).

[winner69]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nzsa-heartland-bank-placement-and-spp-%E2%80%9Cgrossly-unfair%E2%80%9D-jr-p-200626

Looks like those of you who feel aggrieved by the terms of the SPP have an ally.

Yep the easy way out these SPPs ....and small shareholders have been sort of been screwed ....so what's new. Maybe we should count ourselves lucky they even worried about us.

One thing though I think they can only do one SPP a year so no more for a while

Still wondering what the rush was to get the $20m riased in December - just before a quarter end. Seemed to be done in indecent haste

[777]

Of interest I applied for two lots, one personally and one via Family Trust. Was rung by Link to say I could not have both as I would be benefiting twice.

[RupertBear]

Of interest I applied for two lots, one personally and one via Family Trust. Was rung by Link to say I could not have both as I would be benefiting twice.

Not a lawyer but I would have thought a Family Trust was a completely seperate entity? Wouldnt the shares be owned by the Trust so it would be the Trust that benefits? Or do they look at you who beneficiaries of the Trust are?

[777]

Not a lawyer but I would have thought a Family Trust was a completely seperate entity? Wouldnt the shares be owned by the Trust so it would be the Trust that benefits? Or do they look at you who beneficiaries of the Trust are?

It was the fact that I was one of the beneficiaries of the trust. I could have spilt the application's as long as the total was not more than $15,000.

It raises the issue though if shares are held in joint names. Do each of the holders get to apply for $30,000 total. My guess is no.

A cash issue would have been much cleaner.

[Beagle]

Roger whats your view of it? Not like you to not have an opinion! :).

LOL. See post#8971 above. Expanding upon this a bit I think its a very fair question to put to the board at the next annual meeting. I know some shareholders were miffed by the SPP process in 2014 and raised the issue at the annual meeting that year that I attended with you so I am a little surprised the board didn't take a more shareholder centric approach this time.

It would be interesting to know the difference in costs between the two approaches. How much does the NZX charge for the temporary listing of tradable rights and what are the extra Link registry charges for same vs the costs of the SPP ?
I suspect the answer to that question probably explains the route they went down but it certainly can't hurt shareholders to put the question again at the next annual meeting.
At least they expanded the retail pool to 20m shares the same as the institutional placement...if it weren't for that I think retail shareholders would have grounds for a serious grievance.
It would be nice to think the Directors took notice of the extent of retail shareholder support this time when planning any possible future capital raise if they decide to use the same execution methodology again.

[winner69]

NZSA views - a year or so old but probably still the same

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/shareholders-best-practiceDetail.cfm?bestpracticeid=23


SPPs are much quicker and cheaper to do than rights issues which have greater compliance / disclosure requirements (along with organising underwriters etc)

[percy]

W69,
Thank you for the link.
Good people doing an excellent job for all us investors.

[Bjauck]

Not a lawyer but I would have thought a Family Trust was a completely seperate entity? Wouldnt the shares be owned by the Trust so it would be the Trust that benefits? Or do they look at you who beneficiaries of the Trust are? Discretionary trusts are in reality not a separate entity from the settlor, if the settlor retains an interest as a beneficiary or as a trustee. I think what is now happening due to the popularity of discretionary family trusts, amongst people with assets, has meant that government departments and others will examine the terms of trusts with which an applicant has a connection.

[Beagle]

NZSA views - a year or so old but probably still the same

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/shareholders-best-practiceDetail.cfm?bestpracticeid=23


SPPs are much quicker and cheaper to do than rights issues which have greater compliance / disclosure requirements (along with organising underwriters etc)

A well articulated viewpoint.

Meanwhile its worth noting that even before said shares are issued to shareholders those applying for $15,000 worth and getting 3308 shares are now 17 cents per share in the money and can probably enjoy quite a few decent lunches for $562.36.

[kura]

Discretionary trusts are in reality not a separate entity from the settlor, if the settlor retains an interest as a beneficiary or as a trustee. I think what is now happening due to the popularity of discretionary family trusts, amongst people with assets, has meant that government departments and others will examine the terms of trusts with which an applicant has a connection.

Shares have to be recorded in name of trustee, if you owned share in your capacity as a trustee as well as your personal capacity, I could see how share registry would view you as double dipping. I have a company as trustee of family trust & hold shares in my own right, had no problem applying for 2 seperate lots under SPP

[Jaa]

NZSA views - a year or so old but probably still the same

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/shareholders-best-practiceDetail.cfm?bestpracticeid=23


SPPs are much quicker and cheaper to do than rights issues which have greater compliance / disclosure requirements (along with organising underwriters etc)

Do you really need an underwriter though? Make the rights issue at a price where people need to act and offer a facility to buy any shortfall shares with any profit going back to shareholders who didn't exercise their rights. Other companies have done this in recent years, why not HBL?

Always seemed investment banks give companies blatantly self-interested advice regarding capital raising.

[Jantar]

Do you really need an underwriter though? ....HBL are a bank. Can't they underwrite it themselves?

[winner69]

...........

I have a company as trustee of family trust & hold shares in my own right, had no problem applying for 2 seperate lots under SPP

How's the record keeping of company thats the trustee kura? Bit like mine which is a really bad but as long as I do the Annual Return I reckon its alright.

[percy]

Just because you can buy some shares cheaper tomorrow than what you can buy them for on the market today doesn't make it a 'no brainer' in my books. There might be reason to apply for shares under the plan, a syou can build up a small holding without incurring brokerage. By raiding the mattress and the flower pot in the garage? Surely this is only a great idea if you are sure that the discounted hsares you will get are good value. With fair value at $1.42, I think this is far from clear.

SNOOPY

Posted 15 days ago.
Today HBL are trading at $1.63.
Nearly 15% ahead of Snoopy's fair value.
No surprises there.!!..lol.

[Beagle]

Posted 15 days ago.
Today HBL are trading at $1.63.
Nearly 15% ahead of Snoopy's fair value.
No surprises there.!!..lol.

I think the Red Barron has affected Snoopy's ability to sniff out value :)

[Snow Leopard]

and an extra 9 shares (https://nzx.com/companies/HBL/announcements/298310)

Goodie, goodie

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[dagdaniel1]

How does one go about selling the shares received through the SPP, do I just go through my normal broker (ASB) and sell even though their records don't include those shares?

[Beagle]

and an extra 9 shares (https://nzx.com/companies/HBL/announcements/298310)

Goodie, goodie

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Not quite enough for a side order of fries with our lunch.

[iceman]

How does one go about selling the shares received through the SPP, do I just go through my normal broker (ASB) and sell even though their records don't include those shares?

Yes you can do that as it will be your balance at Link Market Services that your broker relies on. Of course you should be adding this manually to your ASB account in the interest of good book keeping :-)

[percy]

How does one go about selling the shares received through the SPP, do I just go through my normal broker (ASB) and sell even though their records don't include those shares?

Going from today's announcement, SPP shares have been alloted.
So I would contact ASB tomorrow and see if their records hav been updated.
If not, get them to contact the share registry.
ASB can not sell those shares until they are in your name.

[kura]

How's the record keeping of company thats the trustee kura? Bit like mine which is a really bad but as long as I do the Annual Return I reckon its alright.

As trustee it keeps no records, all entries recorded in books of beneficial owner (the trust) So I do nothing with company other than filing annual return & NIL tax return.
Yes it can confuse IRD that the company receives dividends, but never declares any income, but thats not my problem.

[iceman]

Going from today's announcement, SPP shares have been alloted.
So I would contact ASB tomorrow and see if their records hav been updated.
If not, get them to contact the share registry.
ASB can not sell those shares until they are in your name.

I am assuming dagdaniel1 is using ASB online brokerage. With my ANZ online broking, only trades done through ANZ automtaically update my balances. DRPs and SPPs I need to add manually

[Snow Leopard]

How does one go about selling the shares received through the SPP, do I just go through my normal broker (ASB) and sell even though their records don't include those shares?

I think you are referring to the ASB 'Automated Portfolio' feature which is just a [poor] record of the balance of shares traded with ASB and not necessarily a correct indication of your actual holdings.


Going from today's announcement, SPP shares have been alloted.
So I would contact ASB tomorrow and see if their records hav been updated.
If not, get them to contact the share registry.
ASB can not sell those shares until they are in your name.

They should be assigned to you by Link Market Services now, mine are.
So log in to LMS, check your balance, and if they are there you can sell them right here, right now.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[dagdaniel1]

Ok, thanks guys.

[janner]

Not quite enough for a side order of fries with our lunch.

$14.58 Is not enough for a side order of fries for you Roger.. ???..

[lawson]

Just logged in to Link Services and they are there all allotted and looking shiny and new :) Now just want the refund to hit the Bank and I'll be a happy little vegemite.

* My asb portfolio doesn't show them, I just did a manual update but when you go to sell they check your csn and fin and confirm how many you hold, so as long as it shows on Link you're good to go I imagine.

[777]

Brokers have no idea of your holdings. Some people buy and sell using more than one broker. It is the share registries that have the details and where the brokers check to see you own enough to cover what you want to sell.

[777]

As trustee it keeps no records, all entries recorded in books of beneficial owner (the trust) So I do nothing with company other than filing annual return & NIL tax return.
Yes it can confuse IRD that the company receives dividends, but never declares any income, but thats not my problem.

How can the company bank the dividends as trustee? Sounds like a sham to me.

[iceman]

Ok, thanks guys.

I will take them off you for $ 1.50, off market transfer and no trade fee. Just PM me :-)

[iceman]

Just logged in to Link Services and they are there all allotted and looking shiny and new :) Now just want the refund to hit the Bank and I'll be a happy little vegemite.

* My asb portfolio doesn't show them, I just did a manual update but when you go to sell they check your csn and fin and confirm how many you hold, so as long as it shows on Link you're good to go I imagine.

And I also checked bank account and refund is in already. I have to say they did this very efficiently

[Beagle]

$14.58 Is not enough for a side order of fries for you Roger.. ???..

LOL it certainly is especially on the hounds current diet when he's not even allowed fries ..but I was referring to the extra unrealised profit of 16 cps from issue price of $1.46 to current market price $1.62 x 9 extra shares = $1.44...perhaps enough for half an extra lettuce leaf :)

[Snow Leopard]

LOL it certainly is especially on the hounds current diet when he's not even allowed fries ..but I was referring to the extra unrealised profit of 16 cps from issue price of $1.46 to current market price $1.62 x 9 extra shares = $1.44...perhaps enough for half an extra lettuce leaf :)

2 Roti Canai @ RM1.00 each + 1 Teh Tarik Besar @ RM1.60 = RM3.60 = NZ$1.20 = A Good Breakfast

Happy Eating
Paper Tiger

[kura]

How can the company bank the dividends as trustee? Sounds like a sham to me.
Philosophically I would agree with you, most trusts are just shams, but the lawyers tell us differently.

[Snoopy]

Posted 15 days ago.
Today HBL are trading at $1.63.
Nearly 15% ahead of Snoopy's fair value.
No surprises there.!!..lol.

What I actually said was that $1.42 was a 'middle of business cycle' fair value share price for HBL. Over the business cycle, for a utility type share' you might expect the actual share price to fluctuate down to 20% below that figure ( to $1.14) and up to 20% above that figure (to $1.70). So the fact that HBL trades at $1.63 today is all within my predictions. No surprise here.

SNOOPY

[percy]

What I actually said was that $1.42 was a business cycle fair value. Over the business cycle you might expect the actual share price to fluctuate down to 20% below that figure ($1.14) and up to 20% above that figure ($1.70). So the fact that HBL trades at $1.63 today is all within my predictions.


SNOOPY

Fascinating reading.
Sounds to me you are all over the place.
May pay to keep your predicitions to yourself,unless offcourse, you want your record, on this thread, to remain intact,100% wrong.!!!!..lol.

[King1212]

What I actually said was that $1.42 was a 'middle of business cycle' fair value share price for HBL. Over the business cycle, for a utility type share' you might expect the actual share price to fluctuate down to 20% below that figure ( to $1.14) and up to 20% above that figure (to $1.70). So the fact that HBL trades at $1.63 today is all within my predictions. No surprise here.

SNOOPY


Whatever Guru....:eek2:

[JeremyALD]

What I actually said was that $1.42 was a 'middle of business cycle' fair value share price for HBL. Over the business cycle, for a utility type share' you might expect the actual share price to fluctuate down to 20% below that figure ( to $1.14) and up to 20% above that figure (to $1.70). So the fact that HBL trades at $1.63 today is all within my predictions. No surprise here.

SNOOPY

LOL 20% either way of 'fair value' is giving yourself a lot of leeway Snoopy.

[percy]

LOL 20% either way of 'fair value' is giving yourself a lot of leeway Snoopy.

So lets lot at how 20% each way becomes 50%.
$1,00 share.Snoopy valuation plus or minus 20%.Plus 20% = $1.20.Minus 20% = 80cents.
I note $1.20 is 50% higher than 80 cents.
Really Snoopy,you must try harder.