HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[winner69]

Is it that great though

4.5% less 33c tax is a net return of 3.015%

Put it is the bank for 5 year Term Fund (PIE)

4.2% less 28c is a net return of 3.024% (ASB)
4.3% less 28c is a net return of 3.096 (ANZ)

Heartland Bonds touted as a Term Deposit ......with the ability to cash out when you want

Fundies love them

Great for shareholders eh ....better to own the bank than lend to it

[777]

Heartland Bonds touted as a Term Deposit ......with the ability to cash out when you want

Fundies love them

Great for shareholders eh ....better to own the bank than lend to it

True but cash out at what price. At a loss or at a profit which I believe is taxable.

I would want a greater rate than what they offered.

[percy]

i heard 3x oversubscribed. dont know how many I got yet.......

The trust I am a trustee of, is receiving a third of what we applied for via Hobson Wealth.

[peat]

The trust I am a trustee of, is receiving a third of what we applied for via Hobson Wealth.

We got about the same overall but I was a bit lucky and can give half ;+)

[aajm1490]

Hi all,

Apologies for being slightly off-topic; I'll keep this as short as possible.

Colmar Brunton is conducting some research on behalf of the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) about what information investors find most helpful to make informed decisions about particular investments. This will help the FMA improve product disclosure documents to make them more useful for investors. We're looking for people to take part in paid research interviews at our Auckland and Wellington offices over the next few weeks.

We'd like to talk with you if you have recently invested in the Heartland Bank medium term fixed rate notes.

Your contact details and the feedback you provide in interviews will be completely annonymised and will not be used for any other purpose. If you are interested in taking part, please email ali.ajmal@colmarbrunton.co.nz with your contact details including a phone number.

Cheers

PS: If you're interested, please get in touch via the email above as direct messages on ST won't be acknowledged.
PPS: This message was cleared with an ST Admin before being posted.

[winner69]

Share price approaching 2 bucks ....should be over 2 bucks really

Great guidance and then they got $150m to play with .....should add at least $6m to net interest income ....surely thats enough to take earnings over $70m - share price should be $2.12 now ...and on Beagle's workings relative to its peers probably $2.25 plus

C'mon Heartland

[Beagle]

Share price approaching 2 bucks ....should be over 2 bucks really

Great guidance and then they got $150m to play with .....should add at least $6m to net interest income ....surely thats enough to take earnings over $70m - share price should be $2.12 now ...and on Beagle's workings relative to its peers probably $2.25 plus

C'mon Heartland

Yeap...time to giddy-up https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=beagle+barking+&&view=detail&mid=F19017C7C1A5EA36EFDEF19017C7C1A5EA36EFDE&FORM=VRDGAR ...still trades cum a juicy 5.5 cps final divvy for a couple of days.
Barking mad if you haven't got a few of these growth puppies in your portfolio

[percy]

HBL shares are now trading ex dividend.

[iceman]

Does anyone know when is the last chance to decide whether to receive DRP or not ?

[Beagle]

Does anyone know when is the last chance to decide whether to receive DRP or not ?

Not 100% sure mate but I am pretty sure you have to be signed up prior to the shares going ex, i.e. if you signed today in my opinion it would probably only apply from the next dividend in six months time.

[janner]

Does anyone know when is the last chance to decide whether to receive DRP or not ?

Keep the faith... I sold down twice and still kicking myself...

[iceman]

Keep the faith... I sold down twice and still kicking myself...

Haha. Still have unquestionable faith. Just wondering whether for the first time I should give the DRP a miss and buy SUMthing else. But the Beagle reckons I'm too late to change which is fine by me and I will graciously accept a few more HBL :-)

[janner]

Haha. Still have unquestionable faith. Just wondering whether for the first time I should give the DRP a miss and buy SUMthing else. But the Beagle reckons I'm too late to change which is fine by me and I will graciously accept a few more HBL :-)

I still grumble at the " few " that arrive.. Now worry more about what price will be set. Ce la vie...

Onward and upward...

P.S. Sum borrows money from a bank :-))

[Snow Leopard]

Haha. Still have unquestionable faith. Just wondering whether for the first time I should give the DRP a miss and buy SUMthing else. But the Beagle reckons I'm too late to change which is fine by me and I will graciously accept a few more HBL :-)

You could always log into Link Market Services, flick the switch to 'cash please' and see what you get on the day.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[iceman]

You could always log into Link Market Services, flick the switch to 'cash please' and see what you get on the day.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

But I'm not sure. Was hoping it would be after they announce the strike price but appears that's not how it works

[Snow Leopard]

But I'm not sure. Was hoping it would be after they announce the strike price but appears that's not how it works


from a HBL DRP document (https://shareholders.heartland.co.nz/media/1329/heartland-dividend-reinvestment-plan-offer-document-april-1-2017.pdf):

6 Participation Applies from First Record Date Net proceeds of cash dividends payable or credited on your Participating Shares will be reinvested in Additional Shares from the first Record Date which occurs after receipt by Heartland of a properly completed Participation
Election.

Quick man, there may time, just do it!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Beagle]

Hey Iceman,

You could always let a few go at $1.89 ex dividend (which is equal to $1.945 an all time new high cum dividend) and get some other bargain.
Disc: The hound sprung out of his kennel with the speed of a startled rabbit at that opportunity and it may no longer be available.
HBL is a great share that's trading at or very very close to the very top end of this hounds fulsome valuation and doing so in a very weak market...on the other hand...some shares have been punished way too harshly.

[percy]

Very strong finish for HBL at $1.90, after going ex div,up 1.5 cents for the day.
"well positioned."

[Beagle]

Very strong finish for HBL at $1.90, after going ex div,up 1.5 cents for the day.
"well positioned."

Surprisingly strong. Closed at an effective all time record on a comparative cum basis of $1.95.5. 1 buyer wanted 100,000 at close and was prepared to pay up to $1.91 ex the 5.5 cent divvy. Be interesting to see if there's any follow up support to that very late high bid tomorrow.

[iceman]

Hey Iceman,

You could always let a few go at $1.89 ex dividend (which is equal to $1.945 an all time new high cum dividend) and get some other bargain.
Disc: The hound sprung out of his kennel with the speed of a startled rabbit at that opportunity and it may no longer be available.
HBL is a great share that's trading at or very very close to the very top end of this hounds fulsome valuation and doing so in a very weak market...on the other hand...some shares have been punished way too harshly.

No. Not that way inclined but managed to pull out (I think)of the DRP after PT's post confirming the date, Already questioning it as HBL has served me extremely well for many years by just holding, adding and ignoring the noise.

[Bjauck]

No. Not that way inclined but managed to pull out (I think)of the DRP after PT's post confirming the date, Already questioning it as HBL has served me extremely well for many years by just holding, adding and ignoring the noise. I regret pulling out of the DRIP for half my holding several years ago, content to hold but thinking the price had got away with itself at the time :o

[winner69]

Surprisingly strong. Closed at an effective all time record on a comparative cum basis of $1.95.5. 1 buyer wanted 100,000 at close and was prepared to pay up to $1.91 ex the 5.5 cent divvy. Be interesting to see if there's any follow up support to that very late high bid tomorrow.

That one buyer at close $1.91 - wasn't you Mr Beagle was it?

Surely not buying an overvalued stock st an all time high - thought you were more into cheap / value stocks

[Beagle]

That one buyer at close $1.91 - wasn't you Mr Beagle was it?

Surely not buying an overvalued stock st an all time high - thought you were more into cheap / value stocks

LOL probably should have run my snout over a full comparative analysis of the Australasian banks before deciding to do anything and letting a few go. That North Korea situation making the hound a little more timid than usual especially with their anniversary this coming weekend. Will run athat analysis very shortly and look at the prospective growth rates out to 2020 now we have 2017 done and dusted, (unless someone wants to beat me to it). After that I'll probably buy the ones I sold yesterday back LOL

[percy]

Life is funny.I have spent the last 6 to 7 years building up our HBL holding,taking DRP.Now we have more than enough shares.
Therefore, we take cash dividends and could not care less about the share price,because HBL have the capacity to keep paying increasing full imputed dividends..
I guess the sp will go through $2,then $2.50 and on its way to $5 [in under 10 years.?]
The real fun to us will be receiving the huge divies in 10 years time.This comes about by being "well positioned."
The challenge then will be spending them...lol.

[aajm1490]

Hi all,


Apologies for being slightly off-topic; I'll keep this as short as possible.


Colmar Brunton is conducting some research on behalf of the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) about what information investors find most helpful to make informed decisions about particular investments. This will help the FMA improve product disclosure documents to make them more useful for investors. We're looking for people to take part in paid research interviews at our Auckland and Wellington offices over the next few weeks.


We'd like to talk with you if you have recently invested in the Heartland Bank medium term fixed rate notes.


Your contact details and the feedback you provide in interviews will be completely annonymised and will not be used for any other purpose. If you are interested in taking part, please email ali.ajmal@colmarbrunton.co.nz with your contact details including a phone number.


Cheers


PS: If you're interested, please get in touch via the email above as direct messages on ST won't be acknowledged.
PPS: This message was cleared with an ST Admin before being posted.

[Beagle]

Who would have thought a year or two ago HBL would trade at a material PE premium ! Average forecast eps growth rate over the foreseeable future going forward in brackets.
All data off latest 4 traders average forward EPS estimates.
Currently
HBL 14.7 (7%)
BOQ 13.9 (4%)
WBC 12.6 (3%)
BEN 12.4 (3%)
NAB 12.4 (4%)
ANZ 12.2 (5%)

The other beagle will be happy, ANZ on a quick look seem to be good value based on their growth rate and current PE as does NAB.
HBL seem fair - good value to me all things considered and are the only bank here to offer full imputation credits to N.Z. investors.

[Food4Thought]

Who would have thought a year or two ago HBL would trade at a material PE premium ! Average forecast eps growth rate over the foreseeable future going forward in brackets.
All data off latest 4 traders average forward EPS estimates.
Currently
HBL 14.7 (7%)
BOQ 13.9 (4%)
WBC 12.6 (3%)
BEN 12.4 (3%)
NAB 12.4 (4%)
ANZ 12.2 (5%)

The other beagle will be happy, ANZ on a quick look seem to be good value based on their growth rate and current PE as does NAB.
HBL seem fair - good value to me all things considered and are the only bank here to offer full imputation credits to N.Z. investors.


Thanks Beagle. Always like reading your banter along with other posters.


I wonder how the big banks are pondering over the recent bond offer by HBL and acceptance by punters. There must be a few ruffled feathers out there about market size and acquisition of funds... It is good to be a holder, that's for sure.

[Fatboyj]

Ditto food4thought great to see info like this as a shareholder. Only one breed of dog I'd consider adopting :)

[beetills]

Heartland Bank $57400 donation to the Nats.
Is this ok?

[percy]

Heartland Bank $57400 donation to the Nats.
Is this ok?

May not be enough?...lol.

[tim23]

Gee as a shareholder I feel its too much mind you I would say that not being a National voter!
May not be enough?...lol.

[Bjauck]

Heartland Bank $57400 donation to the Nats. Is this ok? I don't think any company or union should make a donation to a political party. I would not have voted for it to be made and would have liked my share of it to be added to my dividend instead.

Perhaps there should be a system of public funding for political parties?

[winner69]

Heartland Bank $57400 donation to the Nats.
Is this ok?

No - not ok (if its true)

Complete waste of shareholders money and a bad practice (even worse if felt they needed to bribe a government)

Shareholders can decide as individuals if they want to make political donations - not seeing Heartland deciding for them.

Disappointed in Heartland if they are making political donations - to me devalues t good work they do for the community (even if part of the advertising / marketing budget)

[winner69]

I don't think any company or union should make a donation to a political party. I would not have voted for it to be made and would have liked my share of it to be added to my dividend instead.

Perhaps there should be a system of public funding for political parties?

Last paragraph - there is

[Beagle]

I don't think any company or union should make a donation to a political party. I would not have voted for it to be made and would have liked my share of it to be added to my dividend instead.

I agree 100%. Inappropriate is the word that readily springs to mind. Someone needs to raise this matter and make some noise about it at the annual meeting....otherwise they might do something really silly and add another zero on the end of it next time.

[iceman]

No - not ok (if its true)

Complete waste of shareholders money and a bad practice (even worse if felt they needed to bribe a government)

Shareholders can decide as individuals if they want to make political donations - not seeing Heartland deciding for them.

Disappointed in Heartland if they are making political donations - to me devalues t good work they do for the community (even if part of the advertising / marketing budget)

I agree w69 that shareholders should decide individually if they want to make donations and so should union members.

[beetills]

No - not ok (if its true)

Complete waste of shareholders money and a bad practice (even worse if felt they needed to bribe a government)

Shareholders can decide as individuals if they want to make political donations - not seeing Heartland deciding for th
Disappointed in Heartland if they are making political donations - to me devalues t good work they do for the community (even if part of the advertising / marketing budget)
Donation appeared on a NBR list along with many others.

[peat]

Is it because of the Heartland farming association and Nats having traditionally supported that sector?

I wonder if , shareholders who respect and admire the directors and management - presumably this includes most of them - should just have faith that this is a good decision and money well spent , despite the opaqueness of its cost/benefit analysis.

Have there been any political decisions recently affecting HBL?

But yeh not that keen on political donations myself

[winner69]

Interesting from Heartland Code of Conduct -
Heartland's employees will not, without the prior written permission of Heartland, support a political party other than in a personal capacity

Don't know what it means but interesting.

[winner69]

I do note that the good work that Heartland do for the community is channeled through the Heartland Trust that owns 6 million odd Heartland shares (probably a carry over from their building society days?)

All that seems transparent

But Heartland Bank making political donations - that's anther story

[Ggcc]

If the directors feel so passionately about donating to a political party they should dig into their own pockets. Oh wait, much easier to dig into someone else's pocket.

[percy]

Is it because of the Heartland farming association and Nats having traditionally supported that sector?

I wonder if , shareholders who respect and admire the directors and management - presumably this includes most of them - should just have faith that this is a good decision and money well spent , despite the opaqueness of its cost/benefit analysis.

Have there been any political decisions recently affecting HBL?

But yeh not that keen on political donations myself

Astute observation.
Bit like Bruce Plested [of Mainfreight] giving The Maori Party another $50,000.Good on you bro.

[winner69]

Astute observation.
Bit like Bruce Plested [of Mainfreight] giving The Maori Party another $50,000.Good on you bro.

Apparently its $150,000

Note a personal donation ....not from Mainfreight

[percy]

Apparently its $150,000

Note a personal donation ....not from Mainfreight

Good on him.

[winner69]

Good on him.

Wants a strong Maori Party to 'assist' Labour

[percy]

Wants a strong Maori Party to 'assist' Labour

No.
Strong bro's to load the trucks,and drive 'em.

[Baa_Baa]

Apart from contradicting the code of conduct and taking earnings from the pockets of shareholders (!), did Heartland also donate to the other parties?

Sucking up to National with a donation bribe presumably to garner favour in obtaining subsequent audience and influence with the government to-be, seems shortsighted should the government change and the alternate party who achieved government would be miffed that Heartland felt that way and shut the door to future discussion.

Doesn't seem to be a very well thought out decision does it. Break the code of conduct, annoy the shareholders, back the wrong party and possibly be caught outside of any government influence.

[percy]

Apart from contradicting the code of conduct and taking earnings from the pockets of shareholders (!), did Heartland also donate to the other parties?

Sucking up to National with a donation bribe presumably to garner favour in obtaining subsequent audience and influence with the government to-be, seems shortsighted should the government change and the alternate party who achieved government would be miffed that Heartland felt that way and shut the door to future discussion.

Doesn't seem to be a very well thought out decision does it. Break the code of conduct, annoy the shareholders, back the wrong party and possibly be caught outside of any government influence.

Geoffrey Ricketts is a very nice name,but Sir Geoff has a more polished ring to it?.
I think shareholders would be proud of him.
Would not happen with a change of government though?........................................... ........lol.

[Fatboyj]

Sir Geoff is backing the wrong horse.

As a Labour shareholder(well I'm not a Labour fanboy but if I were) how would one go about showing disapproval of this behavior?
My first thought is to turn up at his office with a bag of naughty toys and have at him, ala Joyce.

9160

[percy]

Sir Geoff is backing the wrong horse.

As a Labour shareholder(well I'm not a Labour fanboy but if I were) how would one go about showing disapproval of this behavior?
My first thought is to turn up at his office with a bag of naughty toys and have at him, ala Joyce.

9160

Shareholders have a choice.If they do not like something directors/management do,they can sell their shares.
Couldn't be easier.
Myself,being a non-polictical person,could not care less whether any companies I invest with, make a polictical donation,or to whatever party.I see it as small beer,and most probably done for the best interests of the company.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The directors of Heartland should be careful this is not seen as payment of an indulgence to wash away their sins should the Commerce Commissions case go against them.

Edit:Oops scratch that I was confusing Harmony with Heartland.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[percy]

The directors of Heartland should be careful this is not seen as payment of an indulgence to wash away their sins should the Commerce Commissions case go against them.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
What case?.
Should you be refering to Harmoney,put it on Harmoney's thread,as it is small beer to HBL..

[biker]

The Board and management must be able to justify the donation. They need to be asked what the return is on the 'investment'.
Surely this was done with a benefit to the company in mind?
Otherwise it is totally unjustified and a waste shareholders money.
Without accountability where does this end? Are they entitled to give away your money to whatever cause -political or otherwise -that takes their fancy?

[Beagle]

The Board and management must be able to justify the donation. They need to be asked what the return is on the 'investment'.
Surely this was done with a benefit to the company in mind?
Otherwise it is totally unjustified and a waste shareholders money.
Without accountability where does this end? Are they entitled to give away your money to whatever cause -political or otherwise -that takes their fancy?

Well said. They have a duty of care to shareholders to maximize returns so someone needs to step up to the plate and ask them at the forthcoming annual meeting how this is in the best interests of shareholders ? Forgive me I forget, where is the annual meeting being held this year ? Its no secret the hound enjoys a good debate and is never shy of barking so if I go along I'll bark about it.

[percy]

On your bike Biker,and head to HBL's next agm and tell the directors.
The Beagle will give support with one of his great howls.
I look forward to watching the show, on the agm web cast.
Should liven up proceedings.
lol.

[winner69]

The Board and management must be able to justify the donation. They need to be asked what the return is on the 'investment'.
Surely this was done with a benefit to the company in mind?
Otherwise it is totally unjustified and a waste shareholders money.
Without accountability where does this end? Are they entitled to give away your money to whatever cause -political or otherwise -that takes their fancy?

Doesn't a return in 'investment' sort of imply bribe?

Not good

[Beagle]

On your bike Biker,and head to HBL's next agm and tell the directors.
The Beagle will give support with one of his great howls.
I look forward to watching the show, on the agm web cast.
Should liven up proceedings.
lol.
If Biker is nice and gives the beagle a pat I might promote him to "Beagle status" for the day and then we can howl in unison :lol:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=beagle+howling&&view=detail&mid=126F2759C88E12772CC6126F2759C88E12772CC6&FORM=VRDGAR

[percy]

If Biker is nice and gives the beagle a pat I might promote him to "Beagle status" for the day and then we can howl in unison :lol:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=beagle+howling&&view=detail&mid=126F2759C88E12772CC6126F2759C88E12772CC6&FORM=VRDGAR

That's disgraceful.
I note the other hound even howls out of tune,!

[Beagle]

That's disgraceful.
I note the other hound even howls out of tune,!
lol..more annoying for the board when different shareholders howl about the same issue but with different tunes :)

[Baa_Baa]

lol..more annoying for the board when different shareholders howl about the same issue but with different tunes :)

That's what makes the board so valuable, differing methods, viewpoints and opinions. Sad that some seem to move very quickly to deriding anything that differs from their own viewpoint. A more mature and respectful approach is to state ones views and ignore others that one does not agree with, outside of an informed debate, especially avoiding personal derision, thus letting the readers decide for themselves. This thread has at times plumbed the heights of ramping, the lows of downramping and the disappointing depths of personal attacks. Unnecessary really.

[Beagle]

Some of us are not like good sheep that follow along and accept whatever management and the board do, we like the board and management to be accountable for dubious actions. Its called shareholder activism and all shareholders are generally far better off for those shareholders brave enough to enter the fray.

[percy]

Some of us are not like good sheep that follow along and accept whatever management and the board do, we like the board and management to be accountable for dubious actions. Its called shareholder activism and all shareholders are generally far better off for those shareholders brave enough to enter the fray.

I think it always pays to attend agms and raise any issues you should have.
I also ring companies,and get answers to anything I want to know.

[Beagle]

I think it always pays to attend agms and raise any issues you should have.
I also ring companies,and get answers to anything I want to know.

Good on you mate. I'm not afraid to make some noise / ask questions / provide input outside of annual meeting forums when appropriate too.
Its people like us that provide directors with useful checks and balances.

[percy]

Once upon a time a very long time ago I was rather a large shareholder in SCY,and always used to turn up at their agm with a list of questions.
After one of the agms I was asked to ring Mr.........., or Mr.......... anytime,and they would answer my questions,saving them the embarassment of them having to be on the back foot answering them at the agms.
I did ring them and they always answered my questions.
Since then, other than having an almighty go at Postie Plus directors, at their agm,I have found ringing or attending presentations,as well as agms.leaves me with no unanswered questions, and well positioned.
Offcourse you learn very quickly whose word/words you can trust.

[Yoda]

Heartland Bank $57400 donation to the Nats.
Is this ok?
Looks like the market doesn't like it . It will be lower tomorrow i think. I defiantly don't agree.
Now they might loose the respect of a good chunk of shareholders and they will sell out this week.
( i think, maybe, not sure, who can tell ? )
mmm unwise this was, more discerning one must be...... Shareholders unhappy will become .....

[percy]

Looks like the market doesn't like it . It will be lower tomorrow i think. I defiantly don't agree.
Now they might loose the respect of a good chunk of shareholders and they will sell out this week.
( i think, maybe, not sure, who can tell ? )
mmm unwise this was, more discerning one must be...... Shareholders unhappy will become .....

Not so.The share price is being manipulated lower, by very far right wing greedy capitalists,who are endeavoring to get more shares with DRP.
Devoted socialists should be awake to this ploy,and spend all their rainy day funds, driving up the share price, so they don't get away with it.
"Let's do this" kiddy winks.

[Yoda]

Haha. Dont we just love elections to put the cat among the pigions .

[percy]

Haha. Dont we just love elections to put the cat among the pigions .

Pleased you took it that way and did not take offence.

[see weed]

Not so.The share price is being manipulated lower, by very far right wing greedy capitalists,who are endeavoring to get more shares with DRP.
Devoted socialists should be awake to this ploy,and spend all their rainy day funds, driving up the share price, so they don't get away with it.
"Let's do this" kiddy winks.
Is DRP= to av. price over next 10 Buss. days from ex div date? If so 20/9/17 is last day, then sp will get stronger after that?

[percy]

Is DRP= to av. price over next 10 Buss. days from ex div date? If so 20/9/17 is last day, then sp will get stronger after that?

Often is the case,but not always.
Sorry to be vague,but if I say it will,it willn't,if I say it willn't, it will.

[ziggy415]

Is DRP= to av. price over next 10 Buss. days from ex div date? If so 20/9/17 is last day, then sp will get stronger after that?

Thought it was 5 days which would mean yesterday

[beetills]

Have had 3 term investments with HBL expire in Sept and heard nothing in writing or by phone.Phone call to local branch and was told the former staff member who handled expiring investments had left and a new person was handling it.Voiced my disapproval.
Piss poor effort from a company on the way up imo.

[777]

Have had 3 term investments with HBL expire in Sept and heard nothing in writing or by phone.Phone call to local branch and was told the former staff member who handled expiring investments had left and a new person was handling it.Voiced my disapproval.
Piss poor effort from a company on the way up imo.

Would not expect a call if I had left instructions as to what to do on expiry.

[beetills]

True,however i am unemployed and have been for a few years so circumstances in my case can change very rapidly so as per their investment statement i wish to receive either a letter or phone call from them prior to expiry.

[Antipodean]

Thought it was 5 days which would mean yesterday

https://shareholders.heartland.co.nz/media/1121/heartland-bank-drp-offer-document.pdf

"7.2 The Strike Price will be calculated in accordance with thefollowing formula:SP = P x EWhere:P is the volume weighted average sale price in New Zealanddollars (expressed in cents and fractions of cents) for aShare calculated on all trades of Shares which took placethrough the NZX Main Board over the period of 5 tradingdays immediately following the Record Date."

Emphasis mine.

[tim23]

Wife closed call account by email Monday money in our Westpac account next day -impressive I thought.
Have had 3 term investments with HBL expire in Sept and heard nothing in writing or by phone.Phone call to local branch and was told the former staff member who handled expiring investments had left and a new person was handling it.Voiced my disapproval.
Piss poor effort from a company on the way up imo.

[percy]

Wife closed call account by email Monday money in our Westpac account next day -impressive I thought.

I am having a bit of a chuckle to myself about your post.
Would any one like to tell tim23 why.?

[Investor]

I am having a bit of a chuckle to myself about your post.
Would any one like to tell tim23 why.?

Because the funds were on call . . ?

[percy]

Because the funds were on call . . ?

40%......... there,but there's more.!!??

[weasel]

40%......... there,but there's more.!!??

You shouldn't be able to close an account by email?

[winner69]

Heartland is a Westpac Branch .....or something like that

[percy]

You shouldn't be able to close an account by email?

Maybe,
but what I am chuckling about is the speed in which the funds arrived in tim23's Westpac a/c.

[percy]

Heartland is a Westpac Branch

And the winner is offcourse, Winner69,who has just earnt a reputation tick from me.!
I was really looking for someome to say ,the funds went from one Westpac a/c to another Westpac a/c, as Westpac do HBL's back office,but W69's answer covers that.

[Beagle]

$1.80 dividend reinvestment strike price, happy hound !

[winner69]

........, as Westpac do HBL's back office,but W69's answer covers that.

So Heartland Bank aren't really a bank - they need another bank to do their stuff.

[percy]

So Heartland Bank aren't really a bank - they need another bank to do their stuff.

Yeh Right.!.lol.

[Onion]

So Heartland Bank aren't really a bank - they need another bank to do their stuff.

Westpac do this for a number of institutions. Take care of the inter-bank settlement processes, making sure 1 plus 1 equals 2, etc..

It will suit both parties -- Westpac will earn some processing fees and reuse their investment in systems. Heartland get access to robust systems without needing to invest heavily in IT.

Look at how much Kiwibank have spent (and written off) -- as a shareholder I don't want Heartland to pour cash down that hole!

Gartner (http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/1923014) classify 3 different types of IT system and recommend different strategies for each type. Some IT systems are "Systems of Record" -- essentially the same for every organisation -- think payroll, HR, accounting. Other systems are "Systems of Differentiation" -- that is where one organisation sets itself apart form the others. Heartland are rightly investing in those systems -- the online business loan approvals for example.

[t.rexjr]

Not so.The share price is being manipulated lower, by very far right wing greedy capitalists,who are endeavoring to get more shares with DRP.
Devoted socialists should be awake to this ploy,and spend all their rainy day funds, driving up the share price, so they don't get away with it.
"Let's do this" kiddy winks.

SP looks like the socialists ran out of money and the capitalists got so carried away with their agenda they forgot to re-evaluate their directive

[percy]

SP looks like the socialists ran out of money and the capitalists got so carried away with their agenda they forgot to re-evaluate their directive

I blame Janner.
Tripping around the world, and Hong Kong,neglecting his socialist comrades,in their time of need.
..........lol.

[oldtech]

A good time to top up at the moment I would say ... just kicking myself that I topped up yesterday and didn't wait until today!

[aajm1490]

Hi all,

Posting one last time in case anyone missed it.


Colmar Brunton is conducting some research on behalf of the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) about what information investors find most helpful to make informed decisions about particular investments. This will help the FMA improve product disclosure documents to make them more useful for investors. We're looking for people to take part in paid research interviews at our Auckland and Wellington offices over the next few weeks.


We'd like to talk with you if you have recently invested, or seriously considered investing, in the Heartland Bank medium term fixed rate notes.


Your contact details and the feedback you provide in interviews will be completely annonymised and will not be used for any other purpose. If you are interested in taking part, please email ali.ajmal@colmarbrunton.co.nz with your contact details including a phone number.


Thanks


PS: If you're interested, please get in touch via the email above.
PPS: This message was cleared with an ST Admin before being posted.

[janner]

I blame Janner.
Tripping around the world, and Hong Kong,neglecting his socialist comrades,in their time of need.
..........lol.

Definitely not a socialist Perc.. It is my money that I am spending .. Not someone else's :-))))

My filthy running Capitalist Dog PROFITS !!!

Whilst slinging off at Socialist Countries Perc..

Kyivstar a private company supplied my broadband for................................ NZ$7.75 per month.

Petrol was cheaper ( private companies ). Cars were cheaper ( Private companies )

Roads were horrendous ( Government ).. But this should really be on another thread. Aye !!!..

[percy]

Definitely not a socialist Perc.. It is my money that I am spending .. Not someone else's :-))))

My filthy running Capitalist Dog PROFITS !!!

Whilst slinging off at Socialist Countries Perc..

Kyivstar a private company supplied my broadband for................................ NZ$7.75 per month.

Petrol was cheaper ( private companies ). Cars were cheaper ( Private companies )

Roads were horrendous ( Government ).. But this should really be on another thread. Aye !!!..
Aye........!!!!..........................lol...

[winner69]

A week or so share price was almost that magical 2 bucks

Now languishing in the 170's

Hope a rerating by the market not happening?

[percy]

A week or so share price was almost that magical 2 bucks

Now languishing in the 170's

Hope a rerating by the market not happening?
Best to sell today,just in case.............lol.

[Jantar]

Best to sell today,just in case.............lol. I somehow managed to do the opposite. I have had a small buy order in for around 3 weeks at $1.77, and had forgotten about it: Until a contract note arrived in my mail box this morning. :t_up:

[777]

I somehow managed to do the opposite. I have had a small buy order in for around 3 weeks at $1.77, and had forgotten about it: Until a contract note arrived in my mail box this morning. :t_up:

Mail box???

[Jantar]

Mail box??? email box.

[percy]

I somehow managed to do the opposite. I have had a small buy order in for around 3 weeks at $1.77, and had forgotten about it: Until a contract note arrived in my mail box this morning. :t_up:
Astute.
Wonder whether they were a few W69 may have sold on the quiet?..lol.

[Beagle]

Hey Iceman,

You could always let a few go at $1.89 ex dividend (which is equal to $1.945 an all time new high cum dividend) and get some other bargain.
Disc: The hound sprung out of his kennel with the speed of a startled rabbit at that opportunity and it may no longer be available.
HBL is a great share that's trading at or very very close to the very top end of this hounds fulsome valuation and doing so in a very weak market...on the other hand...some shares have been punished way too harshly.

I might have (in a very, very minuscule way) contributed to this minor correction by letting "just a few" go at $1.89 ex divvy on 6 September which I feel is fulsome value for now. Got a few back at $1.80 under the divvy reinvestment scheme and happy holding the majority of my original holding at the current price which is a sound hold in my opinion at the current ~ $1.80 price. Anywhere in the late 170's is clever buying in my opinion.

[winner69]

Astute.
Wonder whether they were a few W69 may have sold on the quiet?..lol.

No not mine ...started buying and pushed the price up to 181

[percy]

No not mine ...started buying and pushed the price up to 181

Pleasing to see the unwanted Beagle's shares, going to another loving caring home...................
Just keep them out of the wind ,so they don't float away.................lol..

[winner69]

At least Heartland will get their money back

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/96932226/high-country-station-taken-over-by-bank

[percy]

Our divies are in our bank a/c.

[janner]

Checked in to link marketing .. The holding has increased :-)))) @ $1.80. Happy with that.. :-)))

Went out today and spent some more of my Filthy Lucre..... Well e'r in doors did ..

[percy]

Checked in to link marketing .. The holding has increased :-)))) @ $1.80. Happy with that.. :-)))

Went out today and spent some more of my Filthy Lucre..... Well e'r in doors did ..

Good on her.
I took cash this time.Being recycled into TRA's SPP..
Some of us just can't help ourselves.!...lol.

[Beagle]

Pleasing to see the unwanted Beagle's shares, going to another loving caring home...................
Just keep them out of the wind ,so they don't float away.................lol..

Got some of them I let go at $1.89 back through the DRP at $1.80, happy with that.

[percy]

Got some of them I let go at $1.89 back through the DRP at $1.80, happy with that.

Always pleasing seeing much loved shares returning home....................lol.

[Beagle]

Always pleasing seeing much loved shares returning home....................lol.

Must be good buying at $1.80 if National win surely ! I am starting to have sellers remorse of the ones I'm still missing lol

[percy]

May do even better with a Labour win.??...lol..
As an ex retailer, I found retail did better under Labour.Workers feel more confident with their party in power, and are more comfortable taking on debt.or spending what they have..
What we have seen under stable governments of Helen Clark/John Key, is NZ catching up with Aussie, who have suffered with many changes of leadership.
So I am confident that who ever wins. will see HBL and TRA prosper.
While I am at it, both should also do very well should interest rates rise at the end of next year,or when ever.?
We therefore remain "well positioned."

[winner69]

Since early September HBL been gradually drifting down ......since early September Global Dairy Prices (esp WMP) been gradually drifting down (in NZD terms)

Just a useless bit of information ...but you never know it might mean something.

[winner69]

Property developers in desperate need of finance for that new sub-division I'm told

Surely niche .....go forward Heartland

And help solve Aucklands housing shortage

[Beagle]

Property developers in desperate need of finance for that new sub-division I'm told

Surely niche .....go forward Heartland

And help solve Aucklands housing shortage

Has traditionally been a very risky niche with many developers dangerously under capitalised. HBL SP correlation with dairy prices has been quite a strong one in the past as we know.

[Beagle]

It is spooky how the SP correlates to the milk powder price as noted by winner69 in several posts and correlation graphs over the years.
Hope these guys are wrong and we're not already at the peak https://www.odt.co.nz/business/farming/view-dairy-supply-growth-signs-suggest-global-price-peak-hit
Noted that HBL SP has broken through on the downside to the 100 day MA.
Disc: I have reduced my stake in recent weeks since it hit a peak of $1.90 ex divvy.

[winner69]

Noted that HBL SP has broken through on the downside to the 100 day MA.
Disc: I have reduced my stake in recent weeks since it hit a peak of $1.90 ex divvy.

Breaking below MA100 is not good

But as long as it stays above MA200 and MA300 it's all honky dory

No worries

[Beagle]

As long as Percy doesn't need to refer to the 1000 day moving average we'll be fine lol

[winner69]

As long as Percy doesn't need to refer to the 1000 day moving average we'll be fine lol

Nice one

Bollie bands tightening

[couta1]

Nice one

Bollie bands tightening They need a lot more tightening yet, to see what they should look like, take a look at the CNU chart.

[percy]

As long as Percy doesn't need to refer to the 1000 day moving average we'll be fine lol
Bring up a five year chart.
Then try different moving averages,50 day 100 day,200 day etc.
You will then see which one is the best indicator to use.
Varies with different companies.

[beetills]

Macquarie analysts bullish in HBL growth prospects.
Rest of article on Interest .co is for subscribers only.

[percy]

Macquarie analysts bullish in HBL growth prospects.
Rest of article on Interest .co is for subscribers only.

Very pleasing seeing another broker researching HBL.
Very positive research with current valuation of $1.89, and target price of $1.98.
We remain "well positioned".

[Beagle]

Very pleasing seeing another broker researching HBL.
Very positive research with current valuation of $1.89, and target price of $1.98.
We remain "well positioned".

Suspiciously almost identical to the hounds valuation a while back. Worth $2 but not until late 2018 in my opinion, unlike some who were calling it above $2 by Xmas this year. Until we get some clarity on the political front and with no dividends for quite a while it won't surprise me to see the SP tread water for a while, (Unless spooky possums the dairy price continues it decline and takes HBL shares with it...really unusually strong historical correlation between milk powder price and HBL share price has been noted). Disc: Recently reduced at $1.89 as that's where I see full price for now, but still maintaining a modest holding.

[suse]

must be some good news on the way. SP has had a surge last few days (which is annoying as I just sold a handful at $1.78 to put some money elsewhere)

[horus1]

I never sell these Just add on weakness. NZ bank

[Beagle]

Breaking below MA100 is not good

But as long as it stays above MA200 and MA300 it's all honky dory

No worries

And so it came to pass. Back to your earlier question then, $2 by Xmas ? As stated above I see the current SP at $1.89 as fully priced but still happy to hold a moderate sized position but stranger things have happened and you never know, $2 by Xmas might happen ?

P.S. Refreshed website works well.

[winner69]

New car sales in October highest ever recorded

Unemployment sinks to 10 year low (thanks to National government) as well as high number of new jobs

Even the BNZ head honch says economy in a Goldilocks phase ....whatever that means but it sounds cool

Heartland shares to get to 2 bucks in next week or so ....and on next profit upgrade early in the new year at least 225

Jeez it all is wonderful eh

[percy]

New car sales in October highest ever recorded

Unemployment sinks to 10 year low (thanks to National government) as well as high number of new jobs

Even the BNZ head honch says economy in a Goldilocks phase ....whatever that means but it sounds cool

Heartland shares to get to 2 bucks in next week or so ....and on next profit upgrade early in the new year at least 225

Jeez it all is wonderful eh

Yes Heartland have prospered under a National government.
Yes the prospects for NZ Ltd look very strong.
Yes the workers like to spend and take on debt with "their" government now in power.
Yes Heartland will benefit should interest rates move up at the end of next year.
Perhaps Geoff or Jeff, may give a trading update on the 21st Nov at the agm.
Whatever, we know we remain "well positioned."

[RTM]

Yes Heartland have prospered under a National government.
Yes the prospects for NZ Ltd look very strong.
Yes the workers like to spend and take on debt with "their" government now in power.
Yes Heartland will benefit should interest rates move up at the end of next year.
Perhaps Geoff or Jeff, may give a trading update on the 21st Nov at the agm.
Whatever, we know we remain "well positioned."

And hopefully this helps Turners as well !

[percy]

And hopefully this helps Turners as well !

Certainly will.
Should be a pleasant update from them at the of the month.
In the meantime their latest quartly divie will be in our banks tonight.

[Oliver Mander]

ummm...am I missing something? is there an HBL divvie payable tonight?

[RTM]

ummm...am I missing something? is there an HBL divvie payable tonight?
I think Percy means Turners

[Oliver Mander]

I think Percy means Turners

ahhh....now my cat-sized brain gets it....

[ziggy415]

I see the hole that HNA group have dug for themselves is getting deeper......will there takeover of UDC finance go ahead........closing day must be close

[ziggy415]

I see the hole that HNA group have dug for themselves is getting deeper......will there takeover of UDC finance go ahead........closing day must be close
Remember Winnie not happy about the deal......even touting Heartland as a local suitor

[RTM]

Remember Winnie not happy about the deal......even touting Heartland as a local suitor

I thought consensus was that UDC may have been a bit big for Heartland to swallow ? Anyone have any numbers handy ?

[beetills]

Would it be possible for ANZ to spin off UDC with an IPO and then launch a takeover for HBL.

[stoploss]

Would it be possible for ANZ to spin off UDC with an IPO and then launch a takeover for HBL.

ANZ is already 50% (roughly) of the banking market so might be a stretch to get it past the regulators ....

[percy]

HBL's market cap is $987.8 mil.
Forget the price ANZ sold ? UDC for.If it was between $450 and $650mil, HBL would need to raise a lot of capital.
The market would welcome it, as the combined business would be great.
However, the longer any deal is delayed the less HBL requires UDC, as HBL have plenty of organic growth,something the Aussie banks ,or UDC,don't have.
So HBL will never pay anything like the Chinese would.
And no HBL would never get away with another quick placement and SPP.

[RTM]

HBL's market cap is $987.8 mil.
Forget the price ANZ sold ? UDC for.If it was between $450 and $650mil, HBL would need to raise a lot of capital.
The market would welcome it, as the combined business would be great.
However, the longer any deal is delayed the less HBL requires UDC, as HBL have plenty of organic growth,something the Aussie banks ,or UDC,don't have.
So HBL will never pay anything like the Chinese would.
And no HBL would never get away with another quick placement and SPP.

The purchase price of NZ$660 million represents a price-to-book ratio of 1.6 times net assets of NZ$424 million as at 30 September 2016. “UDC Finance is a great business which is performing well,” said Mr Hisco.

[beetills]

Are there any NZ companies that would be in a position to buy UDC.
I was thinking TSB then listing after purchase.

[silu]

Q1 Disclosure Statement

Unaudited net profit after tax (NPAT) for Heartland was $16m for the three
months ended 30 September 2017, an increase of 12% from the corresponding
three month period in 2016.

The result was driven by continued growth in net finance receivables across
all divisions. Net finance receivables grew $138m to $3,684m, which equates
to 16% annualised growth (4% growth for the three month period).

Heartland expects underlying asset growth to continue during the remainder of
the 2018 financial year, and is pleased to reaffirm its forecast range for
NPAT for the 2018 financial year of $65.0m to $68.0m.

Rights Issue

To support continued growth in its loan portfolio and maintain a strong
balance sheet, Heartland is seeking to raise up to approximately $59 million
of new equity under a pro rata rights issue.

Key details:
o 1 for 15 pro rata rights issue
o Issue price of $1.70 per share, being a 10.1% discount to the closing price
on 8 November 2017 and a 9.5% to the theoretical ex-rights price (TERP)
o Open to New Zealand and Australian shareholders, as well as institutional
shareholders in Hong Kong, Singapore, the United Kingdom and Norway
o Open from 23 November 2017 to 8 December 2017 (unless extended)
o Any rights not taken up will be sold under a shortfall bookbuild
o Shareholders who take up their rights in full may participate in the
shortfall bookbuild
o The offer is not underwritten
o Rights will not trade on the NZX Main Board

[percy]

Pleasing to see such a strong growth rate,which must be supported by more capital.
A rights issue.This is just so much fairer than the previous placements and SPPs.
I think we must thank The NZ Shareholders Assn for this.Maybe a pity the rights are not tradeable,although this will not affect me,as I will be taking up all our rights.
I am not sure whether I will bother with the shortfall bookbind.

[suse]

Ok I dont know what a rights issue is. Can someone enlighten me? did a bit of a google but need a bit more explanation. So if I have 90k shares I can buy another 10kodd shares for $6k?? But I cant trade those shares? Does this mean the share price will fall as there are going to be more shares. Can I sell my rights?

[winner69]

Ok I dont know what a rights issue is. Can someone enlighten me? did a bit of a google but need a bit more explanation. So if I have 90k shares I can buy another 10kodd shares for $6k?? But I cant trade those shares? Does this mean the share price will fall as there are going to be more shares. Can I sell my rights?

Having 90k shares means your are entitled to buy another 6k shares at $1.70

These shares will be the same as any other shares and you can do what you want with them.

If you do nothing you keep your 90k shares and might get a bit of bonus payment when they do this shortfall bookbuild.

You can’t sell your rights ...but as above could end up with a bit of a cash bonus at the end of the process.


What happens to the share price after the raising is completed is anybody’s guess but in a few months time nobody will care / notice anyway .....even if you end up with a lower share of the company by not taking up the rights.

[silu]

fwiw I was just about to sell all my HBL holdings but by the look of things they are tracking along nicely and if I take my rights up and wait for a couple of more months I'm sure I'll be happy.

[iceman]

HBL's market cap is $987.8 mil.
Forget the price ANZ sold ? UDC for.If it was between $450 and $650mil, HBL would need to raise a lot of capital.
The market would welcome it, as the combined business would be great.
However, the longer any deal is delayed the less HBL requires UDC, as HBL have plenty of organic growth,something the Aussie banks ,or UDC,don't have.
So HBL will never pay anything like the Chinese would.
And no HBL would never get away with another quick placement and SPP.

Agreed. This is how it should be done. Well done the Shareholders Association and Heartland for listening. Needless to say, I will be taking all of mine up.

[percy]

fwiw I was just about to sell all my HBL holdings but by the look of things they are tracking along nicely and if I take my rights up and wait for a couple of more months I'm sure I'll be happy.

Should you decide to hang onto them for the next 4 or 5 years, you will end up going from happily "well positioned" to a state of "bliss".
I have already entered this state of "bliss" and it is most agreeable.

[silu]

Should you decide to hang onto them for the next 4 or 5 years, you will end up going from happily "well positioned" to a state of "bliss".
I have already entered this state of "bliss" and it is most agreeable.

That's quite a vote of confidence there percy. I've only been a holder since February this year but judging by the returns so far I upgrade my mood levels to "on the road to bliss".

[winner69]

Probably leaving the upgraded guidance to $68m to $71m until after Christmas

[iceman]

Probably leaving the upgraded guidance to $68m to $71m until after Christmas

I was waiting for this from you winner :-) I agree I think we may see an upgrade soon-ish.

[Ggcc]

What I don’t understand is why they keep asking for more money. Why don’t they just pay a lower dividend and put the rest towards “growth”

[Beagle]

Anyone else find it interesting that they're doing another capital raise after doing one earlier in the year and $100m capital notes issue as well.
Just saying that's a lot of capital to raise. I guess its all good and going off recent information reverse capital mortgages which are high margin are growing very strongly and have to be funded. I suspect regular capital raises will be a feature going forward.

[iceman]

Anyone else find it interesting that they're doing another capital raise after doing one earlier in the year and $100m capital notes issue as well.
Just saying that's a lot of capital to raise. I guess its all good and going off recent information reverse capital mortgages which are high margin are growing very strongly and have to be funded. I suspect regular capital raises will be a feature going forward.

Yes I certainly find it interesting. It suggests pretty impressive organic growth or we're getting warmer regarding an acquisition of some sort ! What a great share to have as a solid part of he portfolio

[McGinty]

Been running my own figures and I can't see where the "strong" growth is.

Sure 12% growth sounds nice on the prior three month period (Q1 2017) but as any of us more experienced investors do, we dig down a little further to identify the only earnings figure that matters to us shareholders.....Earnings per share (EPS). Now this rights issue will be the fourth dilutionary event this calendar year (with the SPP and two DRP's) all of which have given the company addition funding to grow on behalf of the shareholders.

I'll share my figures to illustrate:

1st Qrt 2017, NPAT $14.3m on 485.47m shares, = EPS of 2.95c

1st Qrt 2018, NPAT $16m on 522.65m shares, = EPS of 3.06c

Actual prior calendar period EPS growth rate of 3.7%

As you can see this is a way away from a "strong" growth rate.

Plus this being the second capital raising this year, shareholders should ask themselves if they are now actually funding the company's growth out of their own pockets?

[janner]

What I don’t understand is why they keep asking for more money. Why don’t they just pay a lower dividend and put the rest towards “growth”

Because high volume holders ( those that usually run the company ) who do not " need " the dividend, can increase their percentage of a very desirable company by taking the DRP.

Also tax reasons ..

[RTM]

What I don’t understand is why they keep asking for more money. Why don’t they just pay a lower dividend and put the rest towards “growth”
Suspect they have a lot of shareholders like me. Retired. I need the dividend and have cash to take up the rights issue. If they reduced the dividend I would probably reduce my holding quite a lot.

[RTM]

Anyone else find it interesting that they're doing another capital raise after doing one earlier in the year and $100m capital notes issue as well.
Just saying that's a lot of capital to raise. I guess its all good and going off recent information reverse capital mortgages which are high margin are growing very strongly and have to be funded. I suspect regular capital raises will be a feature going forward.

Yes, I do find that interesting. As long as it’s supported by growth should be ok. Similar to another finance company we sometimes chat about.

[iceman]

Been running my own figures and I can't see where the "strong" growth is.

Sure 12% growth sounds nice on the prior three month period (Q1 2017) but as any of us more experienced investors do, we dig down a little further to identify the only earnings figure that matters to us shareholders.....Earnings per share (EPS). Now this rights issue will be the fourth dilutionary event this calendar year (with the SPP and two DRP's) all of which have given the company addition funding to grow on behalf of the shareholders.

I'll share my figures to illustrate:

1st Qrt 2017, NPAT $14.3m on 485.47m shares, = EPS of 2.95c

1st Qrt 2018, NPAT $16m on 522.65m shares, = EPS of 3.06c

Actual prior calendar period EPS growth rate of 3.7%

As you can see this is a way away from a "strong" growth rate.

Plus this being the second capital raising this year, shareholders should ask themselves if they are now actually funding the company's growth out of their own pockets?

I've been in this one long term, since it had the BSH ticker. It's been a great investment.
Rather than just take 1 quarter in this and last year, I prefer longer term view and looking back to say 2014 as an example, EPS has grown from 9c to 12c (expected), dividends from 6c to 9c and SP from 85c to 190c. Throughout, the company has done what they said they would do and are actively broadening the business in innovative ways, mostly online, without direct competition with the Big Four.
I see no reason at this stage to dampen my enthusiasm for HBL as a long term investment and core of my portfolio.

[percy]

Been running my own figures and I can't see where the "strong" growth is.

Sure 12% growth sounds nice on the prior three month period (Q1 2017) but as any of us more experienced investors do, we dig down a little further to identify the only earnings figure that matters to us shareholders.....Earnings per share (EPS). Now this rights issue will be the fourth dilutionary event this calendar year (with the SPP and two DRP's) all of which have given the company addition funding to grow on behalf of the shareholders.

I'll share my figures to illustrate:

1st Qrt 2017, NPAT $14.3m on 485.47m shares, = EPS of 2.95c

1st Qrt 2018, NPAT $16m on 522.65m shares, = EPS of 3.06c

Actual prior calendar period EPS growth rate of 3.7%

As you can see this is a way away from a "strong" growth rate.

Plus this being the second capital raising this year, shareholders should ask themselves if they are now actually funding the company's growth out of their own pockets?
From www.4-traders.com
.....................2015....2016....2017....2018. ...2019.....2020.
divie................7.5......8.5........9.......9 .53......10.1......10.6
eps.................10........11........12.......1 2.9.....13.9.......14.5
Not only are we seeing an increasing dividend and eps growth, we are also seeing ROE and ROA increasing yearly, on the larger capital.

[winner69]

I was waiting for this from you winner :-) I agree I think we may see an upgrade soon-ish.

All this recent new money (more than $200m) to grow the loan book ......and no doubt make more money ......but guidance has remained unchanged since August 14th

Whose kidding who mate?

[Beagle]

I've been in this one long term, since it had the BSH ticker. It's been a great investment.
Rather than just take 1 quarter in this and last year, I prefer longer term view and looking back to say 2014 as an example, EPS has grown from 9c to 12c (expected), dividends from 6c to 8.5c and SP from 85c to 190c. Throughout, the company has done what they said they would do and are actively broadening the business in innovative ways, mostly online, without direct competition with the Big Four.
I see no reason at this stage to dampen my enthusiasm for HBL as a long term investment and core of my portfolio.

Good post and fair comment but just a couple of notes of caution might be appropriate for new investors buying at the current $1.90 price.
1. I kicked off my investment in HBL about that time at about 85 cps after the credit rating upgrade and despite sitting out two years when the dairy price collapse posed excessive perceived risks to me and missing 17 cps of the SP gain its been an extremely rewarding investment BUT...to be fair we have seen a substantial expansion of the HBL's PE over that timeframe and their PE now exceeds all the big Australian banks as well as Bendigo Bank (BEN) and Bank of Queensland (BOQ) and I think it could be unwise to predicate any further or new investment on an expectation that the PE ratio will continue to expand.
2. Dairy prices have been softening to a fair degree lately and I would hate to see the dairy industry come in for another crisis so soon after the last one as many farmers are already encumbered with substantial extra legacy debt issues from the last one.

Like any other business there are risks faced by this one. For what its worth I see the shares as fair - fully priced at the current level with future capital gains dependent on EPS growth.

[percy]

All this recent new money (more than $200m) to grow the loan book ......and no doubt make more money ......but guidance has remained unchanged since August 14th

Whose kidding who mate?

Jeff only does it to keep you happy W69...!!!.
Must admit I share Jeff's sense of humor....You bite every time..!!!

[McGinty]

I've been in this one long term, since it had the BSH ticker. It's been a great investment.
Rather than just take 1 quarter in this and last year, I prefer longer term view and looking back to say 2014 as an example, EPS has grown from 9c to 12c (expected), dividends from 6c to 8.5c and SP from 85c to 190c. Throughout, the company has done what they said they would do and are actively broadening the business in innovative ways, mostly online, without direct competition with the Big Four.
I see no reason at this stage to dampen my enthusiasm for HBL as a long term investment and core of my portfolio.

Agree with you on all counts there as I was holding from day 1 as well.
The company has executed on everything they have said and in my opinion is one of the better ones on the NZX. I'm just looking at the numbers, and they show me that EPS growth is between 3-4% on a rolling 12 month basis.

Plus looking ahead at the current forecast FY18 NPAT of $68m (upper range) and post Rights issue and DRP, total issued capital approx 564.7m shares (est).
We have FY18 EPS of 12.04cps (FY17 EPS was 11.76cps), so forecast EPS growth rate of 2.4%.

This is just how I choose to look at the HBL story, each to their own and I respect that :-)

[Beagle]

Agree with you on all counts there as I was holding from day 1 as well.
The company has executed on everything they have said and in my opinion is one of the better ones on the NZX. I'm just looking at the numbers, and they show me that EPS growth is between 3-4% on a rolling 12 month basis.

Plus looking ahead at the current forecast FY18 NPAT of $68m (upper range) and post Rights issue and DRP, total issued capital approx 564.7m shares (est).
We have FY18 EPS of 12.04cps (FY17 EPS was 11.76cps), so forecast EPS growth rate of 2.4%.

This is just how I choose to look at the HBL story, each to their own and I respect that :-)

And if we accept that your viewpoint has some validity, (and I do) that puts their EPS growth rate smack bang in the middle of the range of the major Aussie banks which are on a materially cheaper PE. FWIW I will continue to hold my moderate position and am happy to buy more at $1.70, not at $1.90.

[winner69]

Jeff only does it to keep you happy W69...!!!.
Must admit I share Jeff's sense of humor....You bite every time..!!!

Has to manage that bottom drawer money for a rainy day eh

[percy]

Has to manage that bottom drawer money for a rainy day eh

Would not expect anything else from a savvy banker,who along with his board, have a great deal of skin on the line.

[winner69]

Would not expect anything else from a savvy banker,who along with his board, have a great deal of skin on the line.


Pro-active provisioning is a wonderful thing.

[trader_jackson]

"Under the offer, eligible shareholders are entitled to subscribe for 1 new share for every 15 existing shares held, as at 5pm on Friday 17 November 2017, at an issue price of $1.70 per share"

Looks like I've got a just over a week to get back on board the "HBL bus, next stop: $2"

[Snow Leopard]

Been running my own figures and I can't see where the "strong" growth is.

Sure 12% growth sounds nice on the prior three month period (Q1 2017) but as any of us more experienced investors do, we dig down a little further to identify the only earnings figure that matters to us shareholders.....Earnings per share (EPS). Now this rights issue will be the fourth dilutionary event this calendar year (with the SPP and two DRP's) all of which have given the company addition funding to grow on behalf of the shareholders.

I'll share my figures to illustrate:

1st Qrt 2017, NPAT $14.3m on 485.47m shares, = EPS of 2.95c

1st Qrt 2018, NPAT $16m on 522.65m shares, = EPS of 3.06c

Actual prior calendar period EPS growth rate of 3.7%

As you can see this is a way away from a "strong" growth rate.

Plus this being the second capital raising this year, shareholders should ask themselves if they are now actually funding the company's growth out of their own pockets?

I like to work on a total returns basis which includes the dividends so for me it goes like this:

Last year EPS quarterly was $0.0297 on a fully diluted basis and this year eps is $0.0310 [or an increase of 4.42%].

I also on the basis of the DRiP I have 5.32% more shares ($0.035 div strike at $1.5939 & $0.055 div strike at $1.8004).

So my total EPS growth on that 1 share I held a year ago is 9.97%.

While the YoY figures is going to bounce around a bit that DRiP return is baked in.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[janner]

I like to work on a total returns basis which includes the dividends so for me it goes like this:

Last year EPS quarterly was $0.0297 on a fully diluted basis and this year eps is $0.0310 [or an increase of 4.42%].

I also on the basis of the DRiP I have 5.32% more shares ($0.035 div strike at $1.5939 & $0.055 div strike at $1.8004).

So my total EPS growth on that 1 share I held a year ago is 9.97%.

While the YoY figures is going to bounce around a bit that DRiP return is baked in.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger


My laymans way of looking at it..

A year ago $1.50 Yesterday $1.90 = + 26% . No foreseeable changes ....

Don't wear out too many pencils that way... I'm happy..

[percy]

My laymans way of looking at it..

A year ago $1.50 Yesterday $1.90 = + 26% . No foreseeable changes ....

Don't wear out too many pencils that way... I'm happy..

Currently buyers at $1.92 so you are now up 28%.
Bliss territory.
But wait.....there's more.Trading at $1.93 up 28.67%

[beetills]

Has hit the 1 billion dollar mark.Onwards and upwards.

[janner]

But wait.....there's more.

I have a feeling in my water Perc. That there will be many such moments in the future.

Going to be a continuing headache for us.. Where do we get the cash to take advantage of these good offerings ???

[percy]

I have a feeling in my water Perc. That there will be many such moments in the future.

Going to be a continuing headache for us.. Where do we get the cash to take advantage of these good offerings ???

TRA's quarterly dividends.!!!!
Well you did ask.!!..lol.

[janner]

TRA's quarterly dividends.!!!!
Well you did ask.!!..lol.

LoL... Indeed.

Where would you put your last shekels to ensure a " Decent Burial " Perc. ???

TRA. or HBL.. Case closed, M'lud..

Disc. Teensy Weeny holding in TRA.. ( Under 1000 )

[Beagle]

Now trading slightly above this dog's fair assessed value but I won't be putting any paws up to sell any...momentum may continue to generate further gains even if EPS growth is pretty modest. Maybe Winner really does get his $2 by Christmas ?

[janner]

If it does reach $2 by Christmas.. Will you be a seller ???.. Going on your maths ...

Not me.. Going on my gut... In from the beginning..

Oooops sound like a crypto trader ..

[winner69]

Now trading slightly above this dog's fair assessed value but I won't be putting any paws up to sell any...momentum may continue to generate further gains even if EPS growth is pretty modest. Maybe Winner really does get his $2 by Christmas ?

No no no ....2 bucks tomorrow ...oh well let’s say next week then

[Beagle]

If it does reach $2 by Christmas.. Will you be a seller ???.. Going on your maths ...

Not me.. Going on my gut... In from the beginning..

Oooops sound like a crypto trader ..

Lets see how this plays itself out. This could still have some legs just on sentiment and momentum. $2 looking a pretty reasonable chance in the near future now.

[janner]

Lets see how this plays itself out. This could still have some legs just on sentiment and momentum. $2 looking a pretty reasonable chance in the near future now.

You did not answer the question ..

[Beagle]

I chose not to answer it because I won't lock myself into a predetermined course of action on here but for what its worth if you are interested the general investment principle I follow is that if any share is ~ 110 - 115% or more of my own fair value assessment I will consider allocating capital elsewhere depending upon what other opportunities exist at the time.
Analyst average fair value assessment is $1.86 http://www.4-traders.com/HEARTLAND-BANK-LTD-11344518/consensus/
I see it at about $1.90.
2018 PE's of comparative banks I follow, (assuming 12.5 cps earnings for HBL this year due to dilution effects of new capital raise)
HBL 15.6 at $1.95
BOQ 13.2
ANZ 12.7
NAB 14
WBC 13.4
CBA 13.8
All figure off 4 traders to eliminate any of my inherent confirmation bias, (with the exception of EPS for HBL which I have adjusted down slightly (12.9 cps to 12.5 cps) to account for increased number of shares on issue).

Another, (very important in my opinion) issue to consider is that HBL is the only investment in this sector which will give you full imputation credits. You also need to consider the relative EPS growth rates of the various banks. As I suggested yesterday, due to the strong appetite of HBL for new capital I have reservations now that their EPS growth will be much if any greater than their peers.
Much will depend upon their use of the extra capital to drive extra growth. Those that love this share and have a very long association with it will tell you that there's an acquisition around the corner, (but we've heard Jeff cry wolf so many times you can put me in the sceptic camp on that one) and how they drive their organic growth, (I am a believer and believe their reverse equity mortgage book is going to grow very, very strongly in the years ahead). Is their organic growth sufficient to justify the PE premium to their peers...that as they say... is the $64,000 question !

[janner]

I chose not to answer it because I won't lock myself into a predetermined course of action on here but for what its worth if you are interested the general investment principle I follow is that if any share is ~ 110 - 115% or more of my own fair value assessment I will consider allocating capital elsewhere depending upon what other opportunities exist at the time.
Analyst average fair value assessment is $1.86 http://www.4-traders.com/HEARTLAND-BANK-LTD-11344518/consensus/
I see it at about $1.90.
2018 PE's of comparative banks I follow, (assuming 12.5 cps earnings for HBL this year due to dilution effects of new capital raise)
HBL 15.6 at $1.95
BOQ 13.2
ANZ 12.7
NAB 14
WBC 13.4
CBA 13.8
All figure off 4 traders to eliminate any of my inherent confirmation bias, (with the exception of EPS for HBL which I have adjusted down slightly (12.9 cps to 12.5 cps) to account for increased number of shares on issue).

Another, (very important in my opinion) issue to consider is that HBL is the only investment in this sector which will give you full imputation credits. You also need to consider the relative EPS growth rates of the various banks. As I suggested yesterday, due to the strong appetite of HBL for new capital I have reservations now that their EPS growth will be much if any greater than their peers.
Much will depend upon their use of the extra capital to drive extra growth. Those that love this share and have a very long association with it will tell you that there's an acquisition around the corner, (but we've heard Jeff cry wolf so many times you can put me in the sceptic camp on that one) and how they drive their organic growth, (I am a believer and believe their reverse equity mortgage book is going to grow very, very strongly in the years ahead). Is their organic growth sufficient to justify the PE premium to their peers...that as they say... is the $64,000 question !

Thank you Beagle .
A good reply.. Will admit that I am biased towards HBL as it has been good to me .. ( mostly free shares ).

[percy]

From www.4-traders.com
.....................2015....2016....2017....2018. ...2019.....2020.
divie................7.5......8.5........9.......9 .53......10.1......10.6
eps.................10........11........12.......1 2.9.....13.9.......14.5
Not only are we seeing an increasing dividend and eps growth, we are also seeing ROE and ROA increasing yearly, on the larger capital.
Confirming what counts as real growth.
Revenue growth.......Yes.
EPS growth..............Yes.
Dividend growth.......Yes
ROE,increasing.........Yes
ROA,increasing.........Yes.

[winner69]

Confirming what counts as real growth.
Revenue growth.......Yes.
EPS growth..............Yes.
Dividend growth.......Yes
ROE,increasing.........Yes
ROA,increasing.........Yes.

Not everything is increasing

Cost of doing business is DECREASING

Didn’t look at NIM

[Beagle]

Thank you Beagle .
A good reply.. Will admit that I am biased towards HBL as it has been good to me .. ( mostly free shares ).

Your welcome. I forgot to include Bendigo bank in my comparative PE analysis which is here http://www.4-traders.com/BENDIGO-AND-ADELAIDE-BANK-6491417/?type_recherche=rapide&mots=BEN and their 2018 PE is just 12.2. The average of the six Aussie banks peer group that I follow is thus 13.2 v HBL at 15.6.
HBL thus trades at a PE premium of 2.4 compared to its peers whereas a few years ago it traded at a PE discount of a similar amount.
Has this got the legs (EPS growth) to expand its PE premium to the Aussie banks further or is a reversion tighter into its peer group to be expected ?

[percy]

Not everything is increasing

Cost of doing business is DECREASING

Didn’t look at NIM

Yes cost of business is decreasing.
NIM.Was down,so hopefully will recover, and continue to increase.One to watch.Has been steadily improving, so maybe just a one off last result.

[McGinty]

I chose not to answer it because I won't lock myself into a predetermined course of action on here but for what its worth if you are interested the general investment principle I follow is that if any share is ~ 110 - 115% or more of my own fair value assessment I will consider allocating capital elsewhere depending upon what other opportunities exist at the time.
Analyst average fair value assessment is $1.86 http://www.4-traders.com/HEARTLAND-BANK-LTD-11344518/consensus/
I see it at about $1.90.
2018 PE's of comparative banks I follow, (assuming 12.5 cps earnings for HBL this year due to dilution effects of new capital raise)
HBL 15.6 at $1.95
BOQ 13.2
ANZ 12.7
NAB 14
WBC 13.4
CBA 13.8
All figure off 4 traders to eliminate any of my inherent confirmation bias, (with the exception of EPS for HBL which I have adjusted down slightly (12.9 cps to 12.5 cps) to account for increased number of shares on issue).

Another, (very important in my opinion) issue to consider is that HBL is the only investment in this sector which will give you full imputation credits. You also need to consider the relative EPS growth rates of the various banks. As I suggested yesterday, due to the strong appetite of HBL for new capital I have reservations now that their EPS growth will be much if any greater than their peers.
Much will depend upon their use of the extra capital to drive extra growth. Those that love this share and have a very long association with it will tell you that there's an acquisition around the corner, (but we've heard Jeff cry wolf so many times you can put me in the sceptic camp on that one) and how they drive their organic growth, (I am a believer and believe their reverse equity mortgage book is going to grow very, very strongly in the years ahead). Is their organic growth sufficient to justify the PE premium to their peers...that as they say... is the $64,000 question !

Yes a good unbiased post Beagle.

HBL is a good well run company that has delivered for it's shareholders, but there are times that the investment case in a company at any price should be questioned (mainly for investors entering or adding).

At the moment my opinion is that the current sentiment (and resulting momentum) has got in front of the fundamentals, and this not a bad or negative thing. It's just part of the wonderful mechanism we call the stock market.

[Beagle]

Yes a good unbiased post Beagle.

HBL is a good well run company that has delivered for it's shareholders, but there are times that the investment case in a company at any price should be questioned (mainly for investors entering or adding).

At the moment my opinion is that the current sentiment (and resulting momentum) has got in front of the fundamentals, and this not a bad or negative thing. It's just part of the wonderful mechanism we call the stock market.

Yes I couldn't agree more and it makes a pleasant and very refreshing change from the negative sentiment and momentum affecting SUM other companies.

[winner69]

Heartland continues to get rerated upwards by the market

A price book multiple of over 1.8 is unprecedented for Heartland ...and pretty high for banks / financial instos

Over 2 bucks next week.

[Jantar]

Like others, I feel that HBL is slightly overvalued at the moment, but not by enough to start selling. It is currently my third largest holding and I'm very happy with how it is doing.

[RTM]

Your welcome. I forgot to include Bendigo bank in my comparative PE analysis which is here http://www.4-traders.com/BENDIGO-AND-ADELAIDE-BANK-6491417/?type_recherche=rapide&mots=BEN and their 2018 PE is just 12.2. The average of the six Aussie banks peer group that I follow is thus 13.2 v HBL at 15.6.
HBL thus trades at a PE premium of 2.4 compared to its peers whereas a few years ago it traded at a PE discount of a similar amount.
Has this got the legs (EPS growth) to expand its PE premium to the Aussie banks further or is a reversion tighter into its peer group to be expected ?

I would guess that Heartland has considerably less exposure to residential real estate than do the other Aussie banks. Maybe this might give it some advantage if folk consider that there might be some kind of major house price correction on either side of the Tasman ?

[Snow Leopard]

Despite the facts that:
not only is HBL a greater percentage of my NZX portfolio than my rules ideally permit;
but also that I regard even $1.70 as a [small] premium to current value (but less than EOFY value].

I will be opening my wallet to take up my full rights (and have no intention of quitting the DRiP).

As for comparing PE ratios of banks or indeed any company.
Value each one on it's own merits to discover whether to you each represents good/fair/poor buying at their current price.


Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Beagle]

I would guess that Heartland has considerably less exposure to residential real estate than do the other Aussie banks. Maybe this might give it some advantage if folk consider that there might be some kind of major house price correction on either side of the Tasman ?

Yes, no,... maybe. HBL have built up quite a substantial reverse equity loan book in Australia and N.Z. and its growing very fast. A lot of lending on hire purchase, (some have even referred to them with the distasteful reference of being a finance company "in drag") dairy presents as an ongoing commercial risk but certainly many of the Australian banks have larger exposure. Some Aussie banks have huge exposure to mining companies and their long term projects predicated on long term assumptions regarding the price of LNG, Oil and Gas and base metal prices e.t.c. Horses for courses I don't think on balance their risk exposure is all that much different. My theory which may or may not be as good as any other is that HBL has earned a PE premium based on its faster EPS growth over the last few years relative to its peers. Whether that continues is of course "the question".

[winner69]

On the eve of Heartland breaking through the $2 barrier James Smalley from Hamilton Hinden Green said -


Heartland Bank was the best performer, up 1 percent to $1.97, an all-time record for the stock which has gained 30 percent this year.

"It has been a quiet achiever over the last two to three years," Smalley said. "Investors who participated quite early at 50-odd cents will have done exceptionally well, particularly in contrast to the major banks - it has blown them out of the water."


Once past $2 we can look forward to $3 eh

[winner69]

Yes, no,... maybe. HBL have built up quite a substantial reverse equity loan book in Australia and N.Z. and its growing very fast. A lot of lending on hire purchase, (some have even referred to them with the distasteful reference of being a finance company "in drag") dairy presents as an ongoing commercial risk but certainly many of the Australian banks have larger exposure. Some Aussie banks have huge exposure to mining companies and their long term projects predicated on long term assumptions regarding the price of LNG, Oil and Gas and base metal prices e.t.c. Horses for courses I don't think on balance their risk exposure is all that much different. My theory which may or may not be as good as any other is that HBL has earned a PE premium based on its faster EPS growth over the last few years relative to its peers. Whether that continues is of course "the question".

You got to remember that companies that continually grow eps divies year after year and always do what they say they will do deserve a decent premium.


if they improved Board and senior management gender and ethnicity diversity they might even get rewarded with a bigger premium

[Beagle]

You got to remember that companies that continually grow eps divies year after year and always do what they say they will do deserve a decent premium.


if they improved Board and senior management gender and ethnicity diversity they might even get rewarded with a bigger premium

Certainly their reverse equity home loan book growth is extremely impressive...all very high margin, very low risk lending. I thought fair value is $2 by next Christmas, (Xmas 2018) but maybe you're right and the market pays a premium for their growth and excellent net interest margin. Certainly there's a vast market out there for baby boomers retiring on both sides of the Tasman looking to tap into some of the equity in their overpriced houses and very, very low level's of competition in this lucrative niche by other banks. They can just about write their own ticket in this niche so maybe given this area of the market has outstanding growth potential maybe their PE premium is warranted and maybe even another multiple or two...heck 2 x book value and a forward PE of 18 would be something to write home about wouldn't it !! You and Percy are probably right. I have lost any interest in selling at $2.

[Fatboyj]

Lots of positive stuff here. Looks like everyone, well here on ST anyway, is taking up the rights issue.

Would there be any reason for not taking up the rights issue?

[percy]

The REL business would grow even quicker, if HBL had a solid competitor, such as ASB, to grow the market.

[winner69]

Lots of positive stuff here. Looks like everyone, well here on ST anyway, is taking up the rights issue.

Would there be any reason for not taking up the rights issue?

Yep, put spare cash into some crypto thing would be much better

[ziggy415]

come on winner..just buy 1 and you have your 2 bucks by christmas

[777]

You got your wish.

[Snoopy]

Industry Group Risk

From reference Note 12c, the greatest 'business group' risk in dollar terms is Agriculture, with $712.072m worth of assets. This represents:

$712.072m/ $3,718.710m = 19% of all loans

This is slightly up on FY2016, when agriculture was

$628.202m/ $3,461.292m = 18% of all loans

These figures are quite high and continue trending in the wrong direction for HY2017. Given that Heartland is nominally a specialist agricultural lender I wouldn't be too concerned. But if agricultural loans go above 20% of the total (or dairy representing about half the agricultural loans above 10%), then I would sound an alarm bell. How much compounding interest without any cash payments can Heartland take on the books? A 13% jump in the value of that rural portfolio in just 6 months is not insignificant. This situation will need careful watching when the FY2017 result details are released IMO.




Yes, no,... maybe. HBL have built up quite a substantial reverse equity loan book in Australia and N.Z. and its growing very fast. A lot of lending on hire purchase, (some have even referred to them with the distasteful reference of being a finance company "in drag") dairy presents as an ongoing commercial risk but certainly many of the Australian banks have larger exposure.


Let's keep Beagle's remark in perspective. Yes there are banks with larger exposure to agriculture in general and dairy in particular than Heartland when measured in dollar terms. But there is no listed bank in NZ with a higher exposure to dairy in portfolio percentage terms, and that is what really matters. This is no surprise because Heartland used to be thought of as a specialist rural lender. These days the heartland of New Zealand has a new meaning: Reverse mortgages in Remuera.

SNOOPY

[janner]

Ho Hummm.. Life gets tedious :-))

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Life+Gets+Tedious+Original+Recording+of+I t+Don%27t&&view=detail&mid=31EFAED78716343ACAFB31EFAED78716343ACAFB&FORM=VRDGAR

Next prediction please winner69 ..

[Joshuatree]

CHEATIN HEATLAND!
Hank Williams sr. / Your Cheatin`Heart. wmv (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZHU-Ue6ds)

[HITMAN]

Happy to see it touching $2 today, Is it going to head back to $1.70 once we all put a bit more cash into this bank. Understand investors are happy to pay a premium now to get in on the action at $1.70.

[Beagle]

Let's keep Beagle's remark in perspective. Yes there are banks with larger exposure to agriculture in general and dairy in particular than Heartland when measured in dollar terms. But there is no listed bank in NZ with a higher exposure to dairy in portfolio percentage terms, and that is what really matters. This is no surprise because Heartland used to be thought of as a specialist rural lender. These days the heartland of New Zealand has a new meaning: Reverse mortgages in Remuera.

SNOOPY

Pretty sure you'll find Rabobank have a higher concentration of dairy loans.

[BlackPeter]

Lots of positive stuff here. Looks like everyone, well here on ST anyway, is taking up the rights issue.

Would there be any reason for not taking up the rights issue?

Funny you should ask ... I thought you put all your money into Bitcoins? Much more exciting ...

[Fatboyj]

Already mentioned, try to keep up. And not all of my money, for some misguided reasoning I went into MPG.

And hell yea this weekend has been a hoot BTC v BCH ding ding round 1 its been an exceptional exercise in watching FOMO, pump and dump, and whales eating sheep.

And since you've managed to work out how to log into your hotels wifi and post an off topic remark are you taking up the rights issue?

[BlackPeter]

For sure ... I guess at $2 they look like fair value ... but why not taking them at $1.70?

[Antipodean]

Hard to find good reasons not to take up new shares. HBL continue to meet / exceed their guidance so I will be participating to the full allowance.

[horus1]

Taking up full allowance and I am overweight already.

[suse]

I think this is a good time for me to start on my exit strategy. As much as I would like to hold onto these shares and the dividends, I need the money next year so now seems like a good time to start the sell down. Will still hold some though

[silu]

Any shareholders here who are NOT taking up their rights? Seems as much as a no-brainer as their SPP early this year.

[weasel]

Any shareholders here who are NOT taking up their rights? Seems as much as a no-brainer as their SPP early this year.

nope, but can't as i'm overseas

[iceman]

nope, but can't as i'm overseas

So am I but no need to let that stop us. This from their announcement:

" Applications can be made online at heartlandshareoffer.co.nz from Thursday 23
November 2017. Applications must be received by 5.00pm on Friday 8 December
2017 (unless extended)."

[weasel]

overseas overseas, not just on holiday :-)

You are an Eligible Shareholder if, as at 5.00 pm on the Record Date, you are recorded in
Heartland’s share register as a Shareholder and:
(a)
your address is shown in Heartland’s share register as being in New Zealand or Australia; or
(b)
your address is shown in Heartland’s share register as being in Hong Kong, Singapore, the
United Kingdom or Norway and you are an Institutional Investor,
and you are not in the United States and you are not acting for the account or bene
fit of a
person in the United States.

[iceman]

overseas overseas, not just on holiday :-)

You are an Eligible Shareholder if, as at 5.00 pm on the Record Date, you are recorded in
Heartland’s share register as a Shareholder and:
(a)
your address is shown in Heartland’s share register as being in New Zealand or Australia; or
(b)
your address is shown in Heartland’s share register as being in Hong Kong, Singapore, the
United Kingdom or Norway and you are an Institutional Investor,
and you are not in the United States and you are not acting for the account or bene
fit of a
person in the United States.

Oh, a foreigner :-)

[winner69]

Hope Heartlands modelling is better than Westpac’s

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/90905/very-disappointed-rbnz-increases-westpac-nzs-capital-requirements-after-material

[minimoke]

Hope Heartlands modelling is better than Westpac’s

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/90905/very-disappointed-rbnz-increases-westpac-nzs-capital-requirements-after-materiallets see how committed Winston Perters is to investing in NZ business. He would quite like to bolster Kiwibank - maybe he should look at HBL

[Snoopy]

Let's keep Beagle's remark in perspective. Yes there are banks with larger exposure to agriculture in general and dairy in particular than Heartland when measured in dollar terms. But there is no listed bank in NZ with a higher exposure to dairy in portfolio percentage terms, and that is what really matters. This is no surprise because Heartland used to be thought of as a specialist rural lender. These days the heartland of New Zealand has a new meaning: Reverse mortgages in Remuera.




Pretty sure you'll find Rabobank have a higher concentration of dairy loans.


Probably correct Beagle. But Rabobank shares are not listed in NZ.

SNOOPY

[winner69]

Hope Heartlands modelling is better than Westpac’s

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/90905/very-disappointed-rbnz-increases-westpac-nzs-capital-requirements-after-material

This a quite a concerning matter. Westpac have been doing things their way for many years but what’s really bad is the RBNZ did not pick up on it. Pretty shoddy all round. Prudential supervision seems pretty weak, almost non-existent.

Sort of says depositors, creditors and shareholders can’t rely on the information any bank publishes.

Even Heartland could get tainted with this news.

[percy]

This a quite a concerning matter. Westpac have been doing things their way for many years but what’s really bad is the RBNZ did not pick up on it. Pretty shoddy all round. Prudential supervision seems pretty weak, almost non-existent.

Sort of says depositors, creditors and shareholders can’t rely on the information any bank publishes.

Even Heartland could get tainted with this news.
Really????????????????????????????????????
Could,but will not,as we all know there is a huge difference between an Australian Bank, and a New Zealand Bank..One respects The Reserve Bank of NZ, while the other does not.

[kiwico]

Hello all,

Any idea why HBL is showing has having dropped 30% today? The same drop appears in the iPhone stock app.

9279

[Whitebeard]

Theres a blip in the data feed. Its been incorrect in most places today for some oddball reason.

[percy]

Let's keep Beagle's remark in perspective. Yes there are banks with larger exposure to agriculture in general and dairy in particular than Heartland when measured in dollar terms. But there is no listed bank in NZ with a higher exposure to dairy in portfolio percentage terms, and that is what really matters. This is no surprise because Heartland used to be thought of as a specialist rural lender. These days the heartland of New Zealand has a new meaning: Reverse mortgages in Remuera.

SNOOPY
Please back up this statement with some facts.

[Beagle]

Page 666 spooky eh..."the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:v10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A10&version=KJV "Neither a lender nor borrower be" Shakespeare. Hopefully this post helps turn the page lol

[percy]

Page 666 spooky eh..."the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:v10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A10&version=KJV "Neither a lender nor borrower be" Shakespeare. Hopefully this post helps turn the page lol

Trust you are selling your sin shares.
I have grown used to living in sin.In fact I rather enjoy it.!
Just wish I was younger to take full advantaged of more sinful pursuits.!..lol.

ps.Trust you do not continue profiting from taking advantage of old people in retirement.Turn the other cheek and sell SUM of them too.

[Snoopy]

Please back up this statement with some facts.


The listed banks on the NZX comprise ANZ, WBC and HBL. ANZ I believe has the largest gross exposure to agriculture. See my post 397 on the ANZ thread.

$19,787m / $186,266m = 10.6% of the loan book (from FY2016 year). But that of course covers all of agriculture, not just dairy.

From my post 9343 on the Heartland thread:

---------

Industry Group Risk

From reference Note 12c, the greatest 'business group' risk in dollar terms is Agriculture, with $712.072m worth of assets. This represents:

$712.072m/ $3,718.710m = 19% of all loans

This is slightly up on FY2016, when agriculture was

$628.202m/ $3,461.292m = 18% of all loans

These figures are quite high and continue trending in the wrong direction for HY2017. Given that Heartland is nominally a specialist agricultural lender I wouldn't be too concerned. But if agricultural loans go above 20% of the total (or dairy representing about half the agricultural loans above 10%), then I would sound an alarm bell.

-----------

Heartland have already admitted that dairy is around 50% of their rural lending. So the proportion of Heartland loans just in dairy is roughly the same as the proportion of all agricultural loans in ANZ.NZ. Of course you cannot buy shares in ANZ.NZ (the New Zealand bit carved out). You can only buy shares in the whole ANZ bank based out of Australia. And that reduces ANZ shareholder exposure to rural loans in total to well below 10%. My guess is that exposure to dairy on a straight HLB vs ANZ comparison in bank portfolio terms would see Heartland's dairy exposure higher by a factor of three. Of course the ANZ loan portfolio has its own risk factors. But nothing else listed in NZ comes within cooee of Heartland if you want dairy loan exposure.

SNOOPY

[percy]

The listed banks on the NZX comprise ANZ, WBC and HBL. ANZ I believe has the largest gross exposure to agriculture. See my post 397 on the ANZ thread.

$19,787m / $186,266m = 10.6% of the loan book (from FY2016 year). But that of course covers all of agriculture, not just dairy.

From my post 9343 on the Heartland thread:

---------

Industry Group Risk

From reference Note 12c, the greatest 'business group' risk in dollar terms is Agriculture, with $712.072m worth of assets. This represents:

$712.072m/ $3,718.710m = 19% of all loans

This is slightly up on FY2016, when agriculture was

$628.202m/ $3,461.292m = 18% of all loans

These figures are quite high and continue trending in the wrong direction for HY2017. Given that Heartland is nominally a specialist agricultural lender I wouldn't be too concerned. But if agricultural loans go above 20% of the total (or dairy representing about half the agricultural loans above 10%), then I would sound an alarm bell.

-----------

Heartland have already admitted that dairy is around 50% of their rural lending. So the proportion of Heartland loans just in dairy is roughly the same as the proportion of all agricultural loans in ANZ.NZ. Of course you cannot buy shares in ANZ.NZ (the New Zealand bit carved out). You can only buy shares in the whole ANZ bank based out of Australia. And that reduces ANZ shareholder exposure to rural loans in total to well below 10%. My guess is that exposure to dairy on a straight HLB vs ANZ comparison in bank portfolio terms would see Heartland's dairy exposure higher by a factor of three. Of course the ANZ loan portfolio has its own risk factors. But nothing else listed in NZ comes within cooee of Heartland if you want dairy loan exposure.

SNOOPY
At last count I saw ANZ had over $11billion in dairying.
Other big lenders were CBA and BNZ.Not sure about NAB.
So as a % ANZ still leads the field.
KPMG may help you to get your research right.
Rather than try and just compare HBL with ANZ,do the job properly. A half baked effort again.

[Beagle]

Trust you are selling your sin shares.
I have grown used to living in sin.In fact I rather enjoy it.!
Just wish I was younger to take full advantaged of more sinful pursuits.!..lol.

ps.Trust you do not continue profiting from taking advantage of old people in retirement.Turn the other cheek and sell SUM of them too.
What's that you say ?, there's something wrong with my ears they don't seem to be working properly :)
https://www.mercury.co.nz/
Have we turned the page yet :)

[percy]

I keep thinking of you Beagles when I read novels by Martin Walker.
He seems to think they are intelligent.????
Other than that he writes a good book.

[winner69]

Page 666 spooky eh..."the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:v10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A10&version=KJV "Neither a lender nor borrower be" Shakespeare. Hopefully this post helps turn the page lol

Just change the number of posts per page on your settings

I show only 500 pages

Air getting close to 666 ..... caution warranted?????

[Beagle]

I keep thinking of you Beagles when I read novels by Martin Walker.
He seems to think they are intelligent.????
Good at sniffing out Truffles.

Not sure about intelligent but they're VERY good at sniffing out sources of food :)
Suppose share gains provide a source to fund purchases of human food.
Actually...speaking of food...Annual meeting next week, anyone going ? HBL are well renowned for putting on a good spread of snacks and drinks...something to do with their southern roots...southerners good with their hospitality it is said :)

[percy]

Not sure about intelligent but they're VERY good at sniffing out sources of food :)
Suppose share gains provide a source to fund purchases of human food.
Actually...speaking of food...Annual meeting next week, anyone going ? HBL are well renowned for putting on a good spread of snacks and drinks...something to do with their southern roots...southerners good with their hospitality it is said :)

Yes always a very good wine.
Trust this year's agm will be live to watch.With what I save on airfares I may shout myself a nice Shiraz or Sav Blanc,or two.
Their presentations are usually very comprehensive,and outline very clearly where they are headed.
With so much capital raised this year, the very strong organic growth must be set to continue.Last time I spoke to Chris Flood he told me "bad debts" on "open for business" loans were running below budget.Be interesting if this is still the case.Also be interested to see if nim has recovered.Was growing strongly.Watch for comments on Australian "open for business" success/failure.[at present run out of Auckland].

[percy]

Winner69.
Diversification,or diworsification.?
ANZ were awarded Women's Employer of the year.......share price this year is up 5.35%
HBL, who were luckily not mentioned ,has seen its share price up 27.77%this year./??????????????
Food for thought.?

[winner69]

Winner69.
Diversification,or diworsification.?
ANZ were awarded Women's Employer of the year.......share price this year is up 5.35%
HBL, who were luckily not mentioned ,has seen its share price up 27.77%this year./??????????????
Food for thought.?

percy - once again you take things out of context and twist the facts to defend your beloved Heartland

These awards were the Insurance Industry Awards - doubt whether Heartland even entered

While we are on the subject of gender diversity females make up 48% of Heartland's headcount which isn't that much different than ANZ (but ANZ is a higher %age).

percy, I wonder if you even bothered to read the Heartland Annual Report. The Chairman made comment about about improving diversity and they even have formed a diversity commitee. Not doubt he will say something at this years AGM ...and hopefully not look like the buffoon he was when questioned at a recent AGM. Maybe there is hope for old fuddy duddies after all.

You should be proud that the two new directors are big hitters in the diversity space. From the Annual Report -



Vanessa and Ellie are also both strong advocates for promoting diversity, in particular gender diversity. Vanessa is Chair of Global Women in New Zealand, which acts as a catalyst for transformation of the leadership landscape of women in New Zealand, and is a champion of diversity and its positive impact on business performance. Ellie is a member of Chief Executive Women, an Australian organisation focused on increasing women's representation in senior leadership.


I have it good authority that one of Heartlands objectives is to enter and win some of these workplace awards. Great way of promoting the business as well

Food for thought you mentioned. Probably you are too blinkered to broaden your thinking but even a quick skim through this https://www.championsforchange.nz/ might enlighten you (slightly). Vanessa a leading light in that as well.

Know you only winding me up but worthy of discussion

[percy]

percy - once again you take things out of context and twist the facts to defend your beloved Heartland

These awards were the Insurance Industry Awards - doubt whether Heartland even entered

While we are on the subject of gender diversity females make up 48% of Heartland's headcount which isn't that much different than ANZ (but ANZ is a higher %age).

percy, I wonder if you even bothered to read the Heartland Annual Report. The Chairman made comment about about improving diversity and they even have formed a diversity commitee. Not doubt he will say something at this years AGM ...and hopefully not look like the buffoon he was when questioned at a recent AGM. Maybe there is hope for old fuddy duddies after all.

You should be proud that the two new directors are big hitters in the diversity space. From the Annual Report -



Vanessa and Ellie are also both strong advocates for promoting diversity, in particular gender diversity. Vanessa is Chair of Global Women in New Zealand, which acts as a catalyst for transformation of the leadership landscape of women in New Zealand, and is a champion of diversity and its positive impact on business performance. Ellie is a member of Chief Executive Women, an Australian organisation focused on increasing women's representation in senior leadership.


I have it good authority that one of Heartlands objectives is to enter and win some of these workplace awards. Great way of promoting the business as well

Food for thought you mentioned. Probably you are too blinkered to broaden your thinking but even a quick skim through this https://www.championsforchange.nz/ might enlighten you (slightly). Vanessa a leading light in that as well.

Got the bite I wanted.....
LOL.

[Baa_Baa]

Got the bite I wanted.....
LOL.

BS, answer the questions. Can't bat this to touch with some glib fanboy comment.

Watching, as will others be no doubt.

[winner69]

Heartland Board skills matrix

Weakest (OK the ones with the lowest scores) skill areas are

Related industries/Insurance
Customer data CRM
Digital and IT
Liquidity and Funding

hmm - the customer data CRM and Digital and IT seem to the future of the company.

of the 17 skills scored those 2 strategically important ones (?) are where the Board is weakest

[Snow Leopard]

$1.98 ?

Definitely over-priced!

[Baa_Baa]

$1.98 ?

Definitely over-priced!

Bold as usual, show your analysis.

[winner69]

Not sure about intelligent but they're VERY good at sniffing out sources of food :)
Suppose share gains provide a source to fund purchases of human food.
Actually...speaking of food...Annual meeting next week, anyone going ? HBL are well renowned for putting on a good spread of snacks and drinks...something to do with their southern roots...southerners good with their hospitality it is said :)

After wasting $50,000 of shareholders money with that donation to the National Party shareholders should only expect cracker biscuits and a tepid cup of tea (if anything at all)

[percy]

After wasting $50,000 of shareholders money with that donation to the National Party shareholders should only expect cracker biscuits and a tepid cup of tea (if anything at all)

I am sure Jeff will double it next election, just to get another bite from you.!!
He must enjoy your comments as much as I do..!!! ..lol.

ps.The food and drinks will be up to their usual high standard.
pps.Attendees should "well position" themselves between the bar and the kitchen door.

[Snow Leopard]

Bold as usual, show your analysis.
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b87748c404cb540abd86c0c17c896aca
= $1.695 - $0.055

= $1.640

Q.E.D.

[Beagle]

http://www.4-traders.com/HEARTLAND-BANK-LTD-11344518/consensus/

Average analyst 12 month price target $1.87.
The hounds 12 month price target is $2.00...but we are there a year ahead of schedule.

[percy]

www.4-traders.com again thank you.

....................................2018.......... ...............2019.....................2020.
ROE...............................11.6%........... ............12.2%
Dividend per share...........9.45 cents..................10.1 cents.............10.5 cents.
Dividend yield..................4.85%...................... ..5.17%..................5.40%.
With increasing ROE and dividends,the share price will remain well supported.
My valuation.......$5.00 in 5 or 6 years time..

[winner69]

BS, answer the questions. Can't bat this to touch with some glib fanboy comment.

Watching, as will others be no doubt.

Percy will ignore you.

However to continue the discussion one good thing about Heartland’s commitment to improving diversity (won’t use the word quota) is that they will increase overall competence levels by displacing mediocre men (even at senior management level)

[percy]

Percy will ignore you.

However to continue the discussion one good thing about Heartland’s commitment to improving diversity (won’t use the word quota) is that they will increase overall competence levels by displacing mediocre men (even at senior management level)

Correct.
Agreed with mediocre men/or women replaced.

[winner69]

Correct.
Agreed with mediocre men/or women replaced.

Agreeing with something I didn't say again percy

Increasing the percentage of women will force the replacement of mediocre men ....you know which ones, the ones who are allowed to hang around for far too long.



a sort of reverse meritocracy

[Ggcc]

Agreeing with something I didn't say again percy

Increasing the percentage of women will force the replacement of mediocre men ....you know which ones, the ones who are allowed to hang around for far too long.

a sort of reverse meritocracy
Take away the sexism and all I ask is for the best people for the job. Whether it be majority men or women. We should not be forced to have so many percent of women or men in the workplace. I believe the idea of "affirmative action" showed us the flaws in that idea.

In saying that I have heard certain men say they did not want to hire female professionals as they would cause a massive shake up in company policies and procedures. BS in my ears.

From my personal experience, men are scared of change more than women are and women adapt to change much better than men do.