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minimoke
19-08-2011, 04:54 PM
Finally an IPO to whet our appetites. Anyone use their light bulbs. This year it had revenue of $8.6m and reported net profit of $0.8m

BIRMANBOY
19-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Ok give up...what is it?
Finally an IPO to whet our appetites. Anyone use their light bulbs. This year it had revenue of $8.6m and reported net profit of $0.8m

Oiler
19-08-2011, 05:09 PM
Finally an IPO to whet our appetites. Anyone use their light bulbs. This year it had revenue of $8.6m and reported net profit of $0.8m

Minimoke I assume you are talking about the Christchurch based Eco Bulbs engineering and manufacturing company???

janner
19-08-2011, 05:27 PM
If it is the company you talk of Oiler

Where do we find info about them ??

How do they compete against mass producers of Eco bulbs ??

Who is handling the IPO ?

BIRMANBOY
20-08-2011, 04:09 PM
MM you are faster source of info than papers. Saw the writeup in the Wgtn Sat paper today so now I know. Should be popular with investors I would think. Only problem I see is all of their production is done in China and I dont know how safe (zero?) from copying is their idea and production set up.

POSSUM THE CAT
21-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Is this an obsolete technology now the new Quarts Halogen bulbs are available & most of these work with dimmers Much more useful at about the same or less cost

minimoke
22-08-2011, 09:07 AM
MM you are faster source of info than papers.As a closet greenie I have a bit of an interest in emerging companies and their technologies so I try to keep an ear to the ground.

This IPO has piqued my interest and has got past my first stage assessment.

In terms of their technology I'm not overly convinced. I've tried a couple of CFL's (not the "Ecobulb") and found them to take ages to warm up, didn't give the light I expected and the blew in bugger all time. I find some irony in the concept that us greenies don't want to burn a bit of coal cos of the risk of sending CO2 into the atmosphere but don't mind introducing a bit of mercury into the house and landfill. I've got over 50 light bulbs in my place so that's a fair bit of mercury being extracted and eventually dumped. While they CFL's don't put out much heat the advantage of incandescent bulbs and plasma TV's is that a secondary benefit is the heat they put out so not all energy is wasted on a cold winters day.

That aside I quite like their distribution model. Light bulbs are essentially a high volume consumerable and getting bulk into the market via energy suppliers is quite a nice idea. Not without risk, mind, but still a concept that may have some life left in its cycle. This contrasts with PLU which was trying to get a capital item (smart Meter) to market in the same way and this idea hasn't turned a profit. (Note to self: why do we have small rural electricity suppliers backing these start ups?)

I'm getting a couple of warning bells with this IPO. Apparently cash raised will, in part, be used to retire debt. I'm presuming these are the convertible notes but I have to look into this in more detail. I take it this is a way the intial backers are hoping to get their money back out. Debt isn't a bad thing and I think they could put the cash to better use. I'm also not convinced with their R&D investment. $36k is nowhere near enough with new LED and Halogen products coming out every day. Also not impressed with one of the Directors - he's behind the Pukaki Airport which I think is one of the cookiest ideas to come out from down south for quite some time .

These concerns aside I think there is still some life left in greenwashing light bulbs - not necessarily a lot of life but some life all the same. I'm not sure if they have left their run a bit late. "Eco" could just as easily translate into "economical" so there is still some potential.

This one's not in the bin yet.

fish
23-08-2011, 08:02 PM
MM

China and usa are moving fast on producing efficient and getting brighter LED which will fit all household lights and voltages .
They dont heat up and should last 50,000 hours . There is less fire danger and no need to remove ceiling insulation around them . No mercury .No ultraviolet radiation emitted . I have a few fitted in my house and they are just so much better than compact fluorescent .

They deserve to be called eco bulbs unlike those produced by energy mad .

If I was you I would be investing in cen -I have been buying more at recent low prices . I believe they are a very safe stock whereas energy mad is speculative imho . I also believe cen will likely double sp within a few years -they have been over 10 dollars before however are now far better set up and just need a dry year or takeover offer or simply a bit of patience as they are a low cost generator .

Jaa
24-08-2011, 02:00 AM
I think you guys have got EnergyMad a bit wrong. They are more of a marketing/distribution company than a manufacturer aren't they? I just assumed the bulbs themselves were made in China by a contract manufacturer but I could be wrong?

In that case light bulb innovation and new products are good for them. In a few years time they can sell us the EcoBulb Next Generation with fancy LED bulbs or whatever the latest technology is.

minimoke
24-08-2011, 07:43 AM
MM

China and usa are moving fast on producing efficient and getting brighter LED which will fit all household lights and voltages .
They dont heat up and should last 50,000 hours . There is less fire danger and no need to remove ceiling insulation around them . No mercury .No ultraviolet radiation emitted . I have a few fitted in my house and they are just so much better than compact fluorescent .

They deserve to be called eco bulbs unlike those produced by energy mad .

If I was you I would be investing in cen -I have been buying more at recent low prices . I believe they are a very safe stock whereas energy mad is speculative imho . I also believe cen will likely double sp within a few years -they have been over 10 dollars before however are now far better set up and just need a dry year or takeover offer or simply a bit of patience as they are a low cost generator .
I'm inclined to agree Fish. I'm already in CEN and anticipating gettign into Solid Energy at its IPO. IPO's have always interested me for their stag potential and short term gains. I don't see a long life with Energy Mad for as long as they are flogging CFL's. But as Jaa has pointed out it is their distribution concept which has the value. Its a matter of working out if there is any upside left in it before the new technologies kick in and whether these can be applied to Energy' Mads distribution model.

(out of all the lighting I have at my place the LEDS have out performed expectations compared with the others. )

CJ
27-08-2011, 08:30 AM
I think you guys have got EnergyMad a bit wrong. They are more of a marketing/distribution company than a manufacturer aren't they? I just assumed the bulbs themselves were made in China by a contract manufacturer but I could be wrong?

In that case light bulb innovation and new products are good for them. In a few years time they can sell us the EcoBulb Next Generation with fancy LED bulbs or whatever the latest technology is.NOt sure I agree. They have a product which they have been successful in getting to market via teaming up with power companies (am I correct)?

New technology will probably be by other players, no doubt big players who already have distribution networks (via supermarkets and lighting shops) so will have no need for Energy Mad. I think Energy Mad was lucky to be at the front of the eco wave and teamed up with Powerco's to give them credibility (re Eco). I dont think this is necessary anymore.

If they pull this off and manage to sell down in the next few years, they will have done well.

Jaa
27-08-2011, 03:23 PM
NOt sure I agree. They have a product which they have been successful in getting to market via teaming up with power companies (am I correct)?

New technology will probably be by other players, no doubt big players who already have distribution networks (via supermarkets and lighting shops) so will have no need for Energy Mad. I think Energy Mad was lucky to be at the front of the eco wave and teamed up with Powerco's to give them credibility (re Eco). I dont think this is necessary anymore.

If they pull this off and manage to sell down in the next few years, they will have done well.

Energy Mad hardly invented the compact flourescent bulb or were even at the front of the wave, they have been around for years. What they invented was a distribution and marketing system that utilised energy efficiency subsidies from power companies with widespread distribution (supermarkets).

This distribution/marketing system is more useful the more technology changes and improves not less.

Grimy
28-08-2011, 07:52 AM
I got a letter from them out of the blue asking me to think about investing with them. Hadn't heard of them before. That always worries me a bit.

Grimy
28-08-2011, 11:32 AM
I got a letter from them out of the blue asking me to think about investing with them. Hadn't heard of them before. That always worries me a bit.
I think I may have indicated ages ago to Computershare & Link to let me know about IPO's. Perhaps this is the first one?

MrMonkey
30-08-2011, 02:38 PM
What about its value at $1 a share? Too high? Too low? Scope?

brucea
30-08-2011, 06:13 PM
I gave up with those compact fluorescent bulbs a while back after I got fed up with the time they took to give an even mediocre level of light - AND they didn't last that long either!! Plus they are pretty ugly looking too and cannot be used with dimmers - I went back to halogen and standard incandescent lamps. In all an expensive exercise so I would not touch this IPO.....

Major von Tempsky
02-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Anyone been to one of the roadshows yet?

The projected earnings look promising....

Don't forget Charlies was purely a marketing ploy by people who were very good at it - and we did very well out of that!

Might be wise to throw a token $1,000 at it?

moimoi
02-09-2011, 12:27 PM
I read an article in the Herald a few days back whereby they stated the company in 2007 reached its goal of saving the equivalent of Christchurchs entire power usage.

The thing is; i don't understand how power prices have remained on their bottom left to top right trajectory in recent years when there has been next to no population growth, a recession, and supposedly the equivalent of the entire demand from NZ's 2nd largest city removed from the market.

Smells like marketing fluffery to me so i won't go near it.

Are the current owners putting any cash in?

Xerof
02-09-2011, 12:36 PM
Follow the money trail - are the owners taking money out?

Barking mad comes to mind - I'm out, and was also pissed off to receive unsolicited flyer in the mail

Major von Tempsky
02-09-2011, 05:04 PM
Good point by Moi Moi - are the current owners putting cash in?
Therein lies I think whether to buy or not to buy.

Warren Buffett says he never gets involved in an IPO as they are a means for an entrepreneur to extract top dollar and take-off although probably retaining some minor stake to reassure investors.
Memories of Sir Robert Jones publicly announcing how he was buying some R A Jones property shares while at the same time he was quietly disposing of much larger volumes of the same shares.

The coming raft of SOE IPOs are a different story as the government is likely to leave a profit element in to attract Mum's and Dad's to become shareholders.

But the Telecom float is a painful memory and Air NZ has had a very chequered history and airlines are on the list of banned industries that Buffett won't invest in. (too competitive, low or no barriers to entry).
However I do have my eye on some Mighty River.....

Random_Walker
03-09-2011, 07:59 AM
Is it true that Energy Mad's CFL's are more energy efficient than other CFL's? I thought thats what they were selling?

Ekrub
03-09-2011, 09:12 AM
I got the flyer in the mail too....this is their link to find out more;

http://www.energymad.com/nz/Invest.htm

Catalyst
03-09-2011, 08:16 PM
Just had a quick look at the numbers in the Prospectus. Assuming they raise $5m @ $1, they will have 37.7m shares @ $1 and the metrics look like this:

31 March 2011 actual figures
EBITDA = $1.5m
NPAT = $0.8m
Net debt = +$4m (assuming $5m raised is used to pay off $1m debt)

PE = $1 / ($0.8m/37.7m) = 47x
EV/EBITDA = (37.7m x $1 - $4m) / $1.5m = 22x

31 March 2012 company projections
EBITDA = $3.5m
NPAT = $2.1m
Net debt = +$6m

PE = $1 / ($2.1m/37.7m) = 18x
EV/EBITDA = (37.7m x $1 - $6m) / $3.5m = 9x

No dividends are projected.

There's some quite agressive growth projections from the company for FY12 and FY13 but these multiples are still a bit rich for my liking, especially in the current financial climate. The ticker says it all really, "MAD".

Random_Walker
04-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Based on the following quote from the Energy Mad prospectus it seems they are claiming that their CFL's are better than other CFL's and that they have patents over IP that results in the improvements?




Energy Mad developed its Ecobulbs to be smaller, brighter, longer lasting and have a lower
mercury content than other commonly available energy-efficient light bulbs. These Ecobulbsincorporate innovative technical features which are not present in energy-efficient light
bulbs targeted only at retail customers. These innovative features deliver valuable peakload reductions to electricity utilities. Where possible Energy Mad intellectual property hasbeen protected, with patents and designs granted in Australia, China, Europe, New Zealandand the United States.

Steve
04-09-2011, 09:12 PM
I received my flyer yesterday and noted that it was dated 1st September, inviting me to the local roadshow on 31st August! Obviously they don't really want me to attend...

_Michael
05-09-2011, 07:04 PM
I gave up with those compact fluorescent bulbs a while back after I got fed up with the time they took to give an even mediocre level of light - AND they didn't last that long either!! Plus they are pretty ugly looking too and cannot be used with dimmers - I went back to halogen and standard incandescent lamps. In all an expensive exercise so I would not touch this IPO.....


http://www.rightlight.govt.nz/

The government are advertising this website promoting CFL bulbs.

On here the Consumer research suggests the opposite to what you are saying - that brightness exceeds standard 100w bulb and longevity is 5x greater.

On a separate note this is a disappointing thread for the future of NZ

How so >

Well here we have an innovative local company that set themselves an ambitious goal 7 years ago and have exceeded that goal.

Now they are setting new goals that include competing with global multinationals, and require capital to do so.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS - MORE COMPANIES LIKE THIS AND INVESTORS WILLING TO TAKE A PUNT ON HELPING THEM GROW!!!

Yet in this "share market" forum full of complaints about weak NZ capital markets all people can do is run them down and criticise.

Yes there is risk in this, like there is risk in Ecoya and there was risk in Charlies but...

IF WE DO NOT START BACKING OUR OWN AND TRYING TO GET NEW KIWI BUSINESSES OFF THE GROUND, OUR KIDS WE BE ORDER TAKING LOW WAGE EARNING SLAVES TO THE MULTINATIONALS - AS MOST OF US HERE IN NZ ALREADY ARE !!!! AND WE MAY AS WELL NOT BOTHER HAVING OUR OWN EXCHANGE !!!!

Give me a

:t_up:

if you agree

Temoana
05-09-2011, 08:25 PM
My wife and I went to the Chch presentation last Friday. The savories were OK but the sandwiches were quite nice - that IS why people go to these things isn't it :)

The main reason we went was because the chair of the board is a Uni mate of mine I haven't see since 1973 (don't even do the maths) AND we were interested in how they expected to flog off enough of these bulbs to make a go of it. So from what I distilled:

1) The company founders have significant investment in the company ~$30M (that they seem to be wanting to keep) but need $5-6 mill to move to the next phase.
2) Their market advantage is that their bulbs are more power-generator-friendly so they have been able to get their support in promo campaigns in NZ, Aus, US and parts of Europe. They say their product is considerably more reliable and produces what it says than the cheap also rans which are giving the compact fluro bulbs a bad name.
3) Main competition is with the 3 big players (Phillips etc) but they want to stay under their radar and only take 0.3% of parts of the Euro and US markets = $21M by 2013. These competitor bulbs are not "generator-friendly" so leaving a niche for EMad bulbs. They are committed to high spend on R&D and have new designs and more on the way. Their line includes dimmable CFLs.
4) Bulbs are their (patented) design made in China. While they admitted that protecting their patent in China was not ensured but if copied bulbs appeared in the West, those distributors could be sued.
5) The company seems full of highly qualified engineering types (not hype marketers) and so they seem high on potential.

Catalyst covered some of their financials.

And I do agree with Michael that it is a good thing to support NZ startups and expansions - where they look like they have potential to make it. I am not super-convinced about them (and especially after getting some NWF a year or so back that haven't done well at all) but we are likely to put up to $5k into MAD.

ratkin
06-09-2011, 05:49 AM
Im not convinced , will be keeping money in pocket

minimoke
06-09-2011, 07:54 AM
IF WE DO NOT START BACKING OUR OWN AND TRYING TO GET NEW KIWI BUSINESSES OFF THE GROUND, OUR KIDS WE BE ORDER TAKING LOW WAGE EARNING SLAVES TO THE MULTINATIONALS - AS MOST OF US HERE IN NZ ALREADY ARE !!!! AND WE MAY AS WELL NOT BOTHER HAVING OUR OWN EXCHANGE !!!!

A bit of perspective please. There is little I see in the prosepctus that will prevent our kids from being low wage slaves to multinationals. Energy Mad employ 14 people - their plans offer nothing that will create work for New Zealanders or drive high value wages. At best there wil be some R&D work and a bit more back office but labour growth will be in the manufacturing facility (currently running at 10% capacity) and business development off shore. If we want to lessen the risk of a low wage economy we need to create innovative niche manufacturing not invest in low value high volume consumerables like light bulbs. The Asians will beat us on that front no matter what. Will investing in a company whose primary activity is the importation and distribution of energy-efficient light bulbs and installation of energy-efficient products prevent us from becoming wage slaves - I don't think so.

This IPO, at best is destined to take the same path as Charlies and 42Below. At some point an overseas company will see value in the supply chain model and perhaps the intellectual property and snap it up. Apart from the head honcho's in these firms I'm not sure we could say they have truly done anything to prevent us from becoming a wage slave economy.

If we want to invest because there is a buck or tow to be made in the next few years then this IPO may still be worth looking at. If we want to invest as a contribution to changing our economy I don't think this is the way to go.

Still doing my research on this one - leaning towards perhaps throwing a bit of cash at it. Recognising its going to be a low liquidity company so I' won't be able to recoup my cash in the market - will be looking at takeover potetnial.

POSSUM THE CAT
06-09-2011, 09:35 AM
Why Invest in obsolete Technology. Would not touch with a Barge Pole. I am all ready changing to Quartz Halogen three piece lights, far better light. Cheaper after first installation, more choice, and work with dimmers.

minimoke
06-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Why Invest in obsolete Technology.
I'm not sure its obsolete technology - just technology that continues to be developed. In my place I have lighting ranging from candles, incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes, halogen spots and LED's. No CFL's. Leading edge technology is expensive compared with current state technology which in turn is a bit dearer than sunset technology. There is still a place for CFL's - it just won't necessarily be a long place. The question is - is there potential to make some money on this before the technology sets.

Random_Walker
08-09-2011, 08:07 PM
I was at the Energy Mad roadshow and from what they said, it seems their bulbs are very different from the ones produced by the Osrams of the world. And they have IP protecting their bulbs.

If I understood correctly the key difference is to the power company rather than to the consumer. While the benefits to the end consumer are similar, because of something called a 'load factor' the Energy Mad ecobulbs save the power companies lot lot more than similar looking bulbs by the large global manufacturers.

The above is a key reason why the power companies have been supporting Energy Mad. Its not really about the distribution concept or marketing or anything.... from what I gathered its mainly because the power companies save a lot of money and a lot more money than they save if you buy a similar looking bulb from Philips or Orsam off the shelf at Countdown.

mr.needs
08-09-2011, 08:35 PM
I was at the Energy Mad roadshow and from what they said, it seems their bulbs are very different from the ones produced by the Osrams of the world. And they have IP protecting their bulbs.

If I understood correctly the key difference is to the power company rather than to the consumer. While the benefits to the end consumer are similar, because of something called a 'load factor' the Energy Mad ecobulbs save the power companies lot lot more than similar looking bulbs by the large global manufacturers.

The above is a key reason why the power companies have been supporting Energy Mad. Its not really about the distribution concept or marketing or anything.... from what I gathered its mainly because the power companies save a lot of money and a lot more money than they save if you buy a similar looking bulb from Philips or Orsam off the shelf at Countdown.

Power companies make money from selling power. Why on earth would they want to push a product that uses less power? Less power is less revenue right??

Random_Walker
08-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Ok the explanation went along the lines of (and this is just an example).... to run an ordinary energy saving 15w bulb, the power company has to generate 30w, but can only bill the consumer for 15w while the other 15w is wasted due to this 'load factor' thing. With the Energy Mad ecobulb to power a 15w bulb the power company needs to generate 16w, so only 1w is wasted. This is a huge saving for the power company and over the long run means lower investment in building very expensive power stations.

And this saving to power companies is the key selling point and reason why they have gotten so much support from power companies so far - and a reason why they don't try to sell retail because the consumer doesn't really understand or see much difference.

PS: If someone else gets a chance to attend the road show and re-check the above to ensure I haven't gotten the wrong end of the stick, it would be muchly appreciated.

minimoke
09-09-2011, 08:56 AM
Ok the explanation went along the lines of (and this is just an example).... to run an ordinary energy saving 15w bulb, the power company has to generate 30w, but can only bill the consumer for 15w while the other 15w is wasted due to this 'load factor' thing. With the Energy Mad ecobulb to power a 15w bulb the power company needs to generate 16w, so only 1w is wasted. This is a huge saving for the power company and over the long run means lower investment in building very expensive power stations.

And this saving to power companies is the key selling point and reason why they have gotten so much support from power companies so far - and a reason why they don't try to sell retail because the consumer doesn't really understand or see much difference.

PS: If someone else gets a chance to attend the road show and re-check the above to ensure I haven't gotten the wrong end of the stick, it would be muchly appreciated.

Hmm - not sure if this sounds right. Where are our Pulse guys / electricity experts when we need them.

Surely a 15 W Ecomad Bulb and a 15w Osram bulb on a 240v supply has the same current.

Perhaps they are referring to the amount of time it takes get the Ecomad bulb producing the amount of light is faster than the Osram bulb, meaning less power is required.

I can imagine why a power generator would be keen on CFL's. 4 x 15 watt CFL's will produce roughly four times the amount of light as a 60w incandescent bulb. So if the generator sends 240volts down the line the consumer can get four times the amount of light - which measn the generator doesn't have to worry about creating more power for a while. I guess anything that moves a consumer to a CFL (like more light faster)
then the power companies might be interested.

What I can't figure out is why power generators would back Eco mad when backing Osram CFL's would achieve roughly the same saving. Even if you have five Ecomad bulbs (their residential target) burning compared with 5 Osram CFLs the difference in overall power consumption is likely to be infintessimal. Especially when that saving might be undone by leaving the oven on for 10 seconds longer than needed.

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 09:37 AM
I'm no expert at all but the point they were making is: from a power generators perspective, consumers using Energy Mad's bulbs is vastly better than consumers using Osram/Phillips bulbs. Its all due to something called a "load factor" (if I remember correctly). From memory the load factors are as follows:

Incandescent bulb - Load factor = 1 (meaning 1w generated is 1w used)
CFLs - Load factor = ~0.40 - 0.50 (meaning 1w generated is 0.40 - 0.50w used and rest wasted)
Energy Mad CFLs - Load factor = ~0.90 (meaning 1w generated is 0.~90w used)

So consumers using Energy Mad CFL's result in large savings of energy to the generators and bigger margins which is why they are sponsoring installations of Energy Mad bulbs.

This website seems to explain the load factor thing http://cdonner.com/power-factor-and-compact-fluorescent-bulbs-cfl.htm I see they call it a "power factor" there (may be I got the words mixed up) but seems to back up what the Energy Mad guys are saying i.e. that their higher load/power factor bulbs are better than the other CFLs.

May be the Energy Mad guys need to comment on here to explain the science behind all this and why their bulbs have such better load factors compared to the other CFLs?

minimoke
09-09-2011, 09:57 AM
May be the Energy Mad guys need to comment on here to explain the science behind all this and why their bulbs have such better load factors compared to the other CFLs?
Perhaps they do. If we are aiming for a load factor of 1 then it seems that we should be buying incandescent bulbs rather than CFC's.

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Perhaps they do. If we are aiming for a load factor of 1 then it seems that we should be buying incandescent bulbs rather than CFC's.

I think the generators would prefer a load/power factor of as close to 1 as possible. However if I understand correctly a 15w CFL with a load factor of 0.50 is better than a 60w incandescent with a load factor of 1 because overall less energy use. And an Energy Mad 15w ecobulb with a load factor of 0.90 is better than the 15w CFL with a load factor of 0.50.

If you were a power generator deciding which 15w CFL to sponsor, which would you choose? The one with a 0.50w load factor or the one with the 0.90 load factor?

We really need someone from Energy Mad or a generator or who knows a lot about electricity to comment on this :-)

minimoke
09-09-2011, 12:27 PM
If you were a power generator deciding which 15w CFL to sponsor, which would you choose?
If I was a power generator why would I be sponsoring light bulbs? Surely my aim is to produce as much power as cheaply as I can and sell it for as much as I can. I'd be building increased power generation capacity into my pricing since increased demand is inevitable. Swapping 5 60w incandescent bulbs with 5 15 w Ecomad CFL's vs 5 15w Osram bulbs seems to be a level of detail I perhaps I ought not to be looking at. If I was working at this level I'd have to be calculating the extra energy needed to replace the heat given off by incandescent bulbs which requires the heater to be turned on longer or more wood thrown into the fire causing more CO2 emissions. The tipping point might be 250w of light heat energy saved causes me to turn on my 1kw bar heater. Who knows?

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 01:18 PM
If I was a power generator why would I be sponsoring light bulbs? Surely my aim is to produce as much power as cheaply as I can and sell it for as much as I can. I'd be building increased power generation capacity into my pricing since increased demand is inevitable. Swapping 5 60w incandescent bulbs with 5 15 w Ecomad CFL's vs 5 15w Osram bulbs seems to be a level of detail I perhaps I ought not to be looking at. If I was working at this level I'd have to be calculating the extra energy needed to replace the heat given off by incandescent bulbs which requires the heater to be turned on longer or more wood thrown into the fire causing more CO2 emissions. The tipping point might be 250w of light heat energy saved causes me to turn on my 1kw bar heater. Who knows?

I agree, that is a low level of detail for a generator to go into but if I remember correctly Energy Mad said each Ecobulb bulb increases returns to the generator by ~$65 over the life of the bulb, so every 1 million bulbs = $65m extra to the generator.

This is why they claim they were able to walk into a generator in Germany who said to them "We are not in the business of providing bulbs. Addtionally Osram a good German company is just down the road, across the border we have Phillips, we have never heard of you before, why should we do business with you?" and walk out with a large contract to replace bulbs in German households.

Has no one else here attended the roadshow and heard what they had to say re the above?

minimoke
09-09-2011, 04:09 PM
....of something called a 'load factor'
Reading the Prospectus I think you mean "power factor"

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 04:31 PM
Reading the Prospectus I think you mean "power factor"

You are right. Here is the quote from the prospectus regarding savings to the generator from using ecobulbs over other cfls:


Energy Mad’s Ecobulbs have a longer life than most
comparable energy-efficient light bulbs. They also
include innovative technical features which deliver larger
peak load reductions than comparable energy-efficientlightbulbs and which allow utilities to avoid significant
capital expenditure. For example, analysis done for theQueensland State Government estimated they wouldreceive A$64 6 more net benefits per bulb by choosing

more net benefits per bulb by choosingEcobulbs over competing energy-efficient lightbulbs.

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 04:33 PM
Further quote from the prospectus on the benefits to generators



These Ecobulbsincorporate innovative technical features which are not present in energy-efficient light
bulbs targeted only at retail customers. These innovative features deliver valuable peakload reductions to electricity utilities.

Major von Tempsky
09-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Hmm, hmm that's all very well but no-one has answered Warren Buffett's leading question in float cases like this: are the promoters largely just selling out of their founding shares or are they putting more money in?

Yes and its a bad investment.

No and you could be onto a winner.

The technology is mostly irrelevant; if they do the marketing well like Charlies then the world will happily buy the products.

Has nobody actually read the prospectus?

Random_Walker
09-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Hmm, hmm that's all very well but no-one has answered Warren Buffett's leading question in float cases like this: are the promoters largely just selling out of their founding shares or are they putting more money in?

QUOTE]

From the prospectus it looks to me like 6 millon new shares are being offered to raise $6m capital into the company. If the offer is oversubscribed the founders may sell another 2 million shares each. Quote below from the prospectus.

[QUOTE]
If Energy Mad receives valid applications for more than NZ$6 million then the two foundersof Energy Mad, Chris Mardon and Tom Mackenzie, have agreed to make a further four million
existing Shares available.


Certainly doesn't seem to be like promoters that are selling out their founding shares?

PS: I should also note that this doesn't stack up on any of my value investing criteria. If I invested it would be with the 1 - 2% of my portfolio that I can afford to put into things that have a good chance of working out exceptionally well, while also having a higher probability of failure.

Major von Tempsky
10-09-2011, 07:12 AM
Thanks Random, just what I was looking for.
I might just read the prospectus out of curiosity, its a bit hard to find the time somehow.

brettdale
11-09-2011, 05:57 PM
$1 a share, seems pricy to me for a NZ company.

CJ
11-09-2011, 07:12 PM
$1 a share, seems pricy to me for a NZ company.Most stupid comment ever. The fact that there will be so many shares on issue may make the $1 seem expensive but price alone is irrelevant

Grimy
11-09-2011, 07:24 PM
Managed to get some coverage on "Global Radar" tonight-along with adverts for the IPO.

Major von Tempsky
13-09-2011, 04:59 PM
Just received an email from Direct Broking drawing attention to the IPOs for Trade Me and Energy MAD.
Latest opinions?

Random_Walker
15-09-2011, 09:05 PM
Just received an email from Direct Broking drawing attention to the IPOs for Trade Me and Energy MAD.
Latest opinions?

I think Energy Mad is going to be one that ends up either at $3 or at 30 cents in 5 years... key question is what probability do you assign to each of the potential outcomes?

minimoke
16-09-2011, 07:08 AM
Well, at this point I'm out. Primary reason is I reckon this will be a low liquidity stock so it doesn't matter if its going to $3 or $0.50 - finding willing buyers of a big enough stake will be a challenge. Take PLU for example. There are currently 8 willing sellers and no potential buyers. One $228 trade knocks 54% of the value of your stock. By my reckoning that puts Energy Mad into a gamble category (along with the likes of Tasman Capital) and should belong in a TAB/Lotto type thread

CJ
17-09-2011, 08:05 AM
Well, at this point I'm out. Primary reason is I reckon this will be a low liquidity stock so it doesn't matter if its going to $3 or $0.50 - finding willing buyers of a big enough stake will be a challenge. Take PLU for example. There are currently 8 willing sellers and no potential buyers. One $228 trade knocks 54% of the value of your stock. By my reckoning that puts Energy Mad into a gamble category (along with the likes of Tasman Capital) and should belong in a TAB/Lotto type threadThey do have the potential to be swallowed by one of the big players (ie. like 42 Below and Charlies were). IF they can maintain the technology advantage they say they have into the next generation of technology, that is a possible outcome.

My main concern is that they are in a very fast moving area and their R&D budget is a lot less than the big players.

minimoke
21-09-2011, 04:17 PM
If you haven't sent your application in it looks like you might get a bit longer. Decision late tomorrow on whether they will extedn the offer date.

Xerof
21-09-2011, 05:56 PM
Last one out turn off the light......

minimoke
30-09-2011, 06:50 AM
They couldn't bring in the $5m so offer extended to 12 October

Random_Walker
30-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Any guesses as to who the potential strategic investor they are in discussions with is?

lou
06-10-2011, 12:45 PM
Is anybody stagging this IPO? I am in two mind whether to do it or not?

minimoke
06-10-2011, 01:32 PM
Is anybody stagging this IPO? I am in two mind whether to do it or not?Now there's a problem. Not only loosing your mind but loosing two of them.

My rules to stagging:
1) Demand has to exceed supply: In this case, demand is well below supply - hence the extension.

2) Buy enough to make the risk worthwhile. For example I'm lining up 10 buyers of Solid Energy who will then off-market transfer to me. When I flog them there should be a nice wee bonus in there.

3) Make sure there is gong to be a liquid market. After listing there has to be enough buyers around to buy what you want to sell. With Solid Energy I'm punting there will be. With $5m of Energy Mad I suspect there won't be. You'll be stuck with shares that you can only sell in dribs and drabs, loosing brokerage along the way.

Xerof
06-10-2011, 04:08 PM
lou, that's the funniest line I have read all year

I think you'll get a refund if you have actually applied

minimoke
06-10-2011, 04:29 PM
I think you'll get a refund if you have actually applied
He'll find out after 12 October.

lou
06-10-2011, 06:53 PM
I have not applied. It was a last minute thinking. I was leaning to no because you need demand for the stock post the IPO the extension of time signals a lack of demand.

The comments you have provided has confirmed my thinking.

Thanks
Lou

minimoke
07-10-2011, 04:09 PM
Now advertising IPO on Radio Live. They may not remember Doug Edgar Somers - but I do!

CJ
07-10-2011, 06:13 PM
i am not investing. I hope it does make it to IPO as it will add variety. risk is it will end up like burgerfuel or windflow.

CJ
17-10-2011, 08:04 PM
It got the $5m -I am happy for them and it will be a good addition to the NZX as it is something different.

The owners didn't get any money out - will be interesting to see if they had to put more in like BurgerFuel.

Will be interesting to see where it is in 2-5 years.

minimoke
21-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Is anybody stagging this IPO? I am in two mind whether to do it or not?You'll be pleased you didn't: as expected, no activity post listing.

lou
21-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Yea, I am glad that I didn't. I was not overly keen to begin with, more of a fishing question?

winner69
23-01-2012, 09:07 AM
not a good look 'slashing' the outlook so soon after the IPO but never mind punters they are 'well advanced' in a few things

No doubt light at the end of the tunnel

Stranger_Danger
23-01-2012, 11:51 AM
In this case, its probably a train.

CJ
23-01-2012, 12:30 PM
At what point does this become a buy? [having memories of 42Below and DIL ipo's]

Halebop
23-01-2012, 02:08 PM
At what point does this become a buy? [having memories of 42Below and DIL ipo's]

I'm really struggling to see a business model with this one.

CJ
23-01-2012, 03:54 PM
I'm really struggling to see a business model with this one.They sell a high quality product. Agree that it may be superseded in the short term but if they can get manufacturing, distribution and marketing up and running, they will have a few good years to capitalise on their IP.

I dont know why they own the manufacturing plant though, out source it and drive down the price. It cant be for quality control purposes when Apple uses outsourcing for its products.

winner69
27-02-2012, 12:48 PM
I'm really struggling to see a business model with this one.

so this customer who was going to generate $1.8m of EBITDA hasn't agreed to buy yet so no deal this year ..... methinks whoever this KEY customer is prob has MAD by the short and curlies and if serious driving an even better deal ... for him of course and not for MAD

Hope they haven't made the light bulbs already

CJ - maybe close to buy in a week or so ..... jeez what will it be next year when it achieves 2013 prospectus forecasts ..... heaps more than 40-50 cents

CJ
27-02-2012, 02:49 PM
_IF_ they achieve 2013 prospectus forecasts. They haven't exactly got a track record of delivery.I think we can pretty safely say at this stage that they wasted money preparing/reviewing/printing those forecasts in the prospectus.

karen1
01-03-2012, 07:21 AM
Will the last one to leave please turn off the lights.

http://http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/3c95ef56/energy-mad-faces-full-year-ebitda-loss.html

winner69
28-05-2012, 09:49 AM
At least they are thanking you for your patience Sparky

Balance
30-04-2013, 08:05 AM
Sure - but it should be sales figures that determine this, rather than vague statements about the US energy efficiency industry.

It gets worse!

Now they are telling all and sundry how great they are at marketing by giving away (yes, free giveaways) light bulbs!

Hate to tell them but that's not smart business - smart business is sell 3, give away 1.

MAD
30/04/2013 08:35
GENERAL

REL: 0835 HRS Energy Mad Limited

GENERAL: MAD: One-day US utility promotion distributes 41,000 bulbs

Energy Mad successfully distributed 41,000 of its "Ecospiral" energy saving
light bulbs in a one day promotion with United States utility West Penn
Power.

With funding from West Penn Power, the bulbs were able to be distributed free
to spectators at the Penn State Blue-White Football Game in State College PA
on Saturday 20th April.

The first of day of the two day event was cancelled, and despite the snow and
rain on the second and final day, Energy Mad staff were unable to keep up
with demand.

"Customers took the Ecospirals as fast as they could be given out", Energy
Mad Managing Director Chris Mardon said.

Steven Miller (Energy Mad General Manager North America) said "the fan
reaction to free energy saving bulbs for their homes was "fantastic".

Our team was stationed all over the event and were warmly received by the
local Penn State football fans", he said.

The success of this giveaway promotion has created the opportunity for Energy
Mad to explore similar promotions with its other electricity utility partners
in the United States.

CJ
30-04-2013, 08:19 AM
Balance - it does look like West Penn Power paid for (at least part) of them but agree the targeting isn't right as it doesn't attact those that are actually interest and may buy more, just the free loaders - even a buy one get one free would ensure you are targeting the right market.

Balance
30-04-2013, 08:52 AM
Balance - it does look like West Penn Power paid for (at least part) of them but agree the targeting isn't right as it doesn't attact those that are actually interest and may buy more, just the free loaders - even a buy one get one free would ensure you are targeting the right market.

"Customers took the Ecospirals as fast as they could be given out"

Customers?????

chad321
17-05-2013, 10:32 AM
Price looks to be quite low at the moment. Any experienced traders care to comment on whether it's worth a look?

Schrodinger
17-05-2013, 02:50 PM
Look at the company management and tell me if they have the ability to grow this business (sell products)...

Schrodinger
17-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Yes that is a sure fire way to get hockey stick sales volumes. Pity about the income statement.

Maybe they can learn something from Rakon on break even production methods.

chad321
22-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Still dropping. 33 cents.

minimoke
28-05-2013, 12:30 PM
I feel so sorry for the investors who got signed up to this amazing mess. Woodward, who led the float IPO, and the Energy Mad management should be investigated for any discrepancies on knowledge of risks facing the company prior to IPO.fark me I feel a bit like a stalker. Stop feeling sorry for investors. Go back to the start of the thread. Warning sign's were there at the beginning. Investors have to take responsibility for their decisions. Mad had a mad director from the beginning. Alf directors were mad and continue to be so. It stands to reason like attracts like.

Xerof
28-05-2013, 12:53 PM
Follow the money trail - are the owners taking money out?

Barking mad comes to mind - I'm out, and was also pissed off to receive unsolicited flyer in the mail

Barking mad it was then....but DIL suffered a similar fate post-IPO and recovered modestly..:p

minimoke
28-05-2013, 04:08 PM
Again, why would you feel sorry for investors. The prospectus said there were technological challenges so that covers off the Australian problems. Quality and warranty can be set against customer satisfaction. The revenue growth could be set against the failure to manage growth risk. The risks were highlighted.

CJ
31-05-2013, 07:59 AM
The "good" mark was the highest mark awarded for the light bulbs tested You have to love the Germans.

CJ
13-06-2013, 08:02 AM
I think you missed this bit.
Energy Mad provided financial assistance to the CEO by the way of a short term loan to purchase the shares.Would be interesting to know the terms? Probably low or no interest and non recourse (only repayable to the extent of the value of the shares so if the shares go down, only part of the loan is repayable).

Banksie
13-06-2013, 08:17 AM
I think you missed this bit.Would be interesting to know the terms? Probably low or no interest and non recourse (only repayable to the extent of the value of the shares so if the shares go down, only part of the loan is repayable).

The loan details were in one of the supporting documents.


Nature and amount of the financial assistance: Loan of $33,750 expiring on 31 March 2014
at 5.9% interest per annum.

minimoke
13-06-2013, 08:24 AM
Semantics I guess but I would argue he didn't buy them. This is essentially mad propping up their share price. If you or I needa loan to buy shares what do we do? Well for a start of it was a good bet we might go to the bank. So this is either not a good bet or the ceos credit limit is maxed out. We'll also find mad is in the business of light bulbs not finance. I think investors expected their money to go into r&d not cost loans. Nothing like a decent buy to prop up a share price and give the illusion of excitement. Smoke and mirrors I reckon

CJ
13-06-2013, 08:44 AM
A $315,000 order is not much chop, IMO. Though it will be a fillip to their morale to have orders coming in from Germany, who do have high standards and are environmentally conscious folks. Note - they are not unique in the German marketplace, there are four other bulbs that were also considered "good". So what makes them stand out?Depends if it is a recurring order but I assume they would have said if it was.


The loan details were in one of the supporting documents.Interest rate a bit lower than margin lending rates but could do better if secured against a house. Doesn't state if it is non recourse.

My view is this is similar to being granted options, not a true signal of insider buying.

minimoke
13-06-2013, 08:48 AM
Agree is not inside trading. But a step towards related party lending something recent history in our markets which should raise a yellow flag of concern

winner69
14-10-2013, 08:20 AM
Naughty boys last year so 30 grand plus costs into the coffers of the nzx


But we been good boys since

Schrodinger
14-10-2013, 12:24 PM
Selling factories for cash? Sounds like a RAK story.

Harvey Specter
26-11-2013, 10:19 AM
ouch, absolutely horrid result with US sales nearly down to 0.So they cant even give them away now?

macduffy
16-01-2014, 03:39 PM
Some good news today for MAD.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9617950/Good-news-boosts-Energy-Mad

Which reminds me. Last week a young person from said company called with a story about increased energy use in our part of Wellington. Not selling anything, mind you, but offered to have an energy consultant call to check things out. Apparently these recessed lights were a particular problem. Told him we didn't have any of those and declined the offer.

benjitara
16-01-2014, 05:30 PM
I wouldn't be touching these shares for a while yet. At the end of the day they need a huge increase in sales to support a SP of 25cents let alone 30 but they have had their problems so I'll be keeping an eye out for a man standing in the ocean turning the tide back from the shore.

tunsbro
22-01-2014, 10:27 AM
Almost bought this morning based off the Amazon announcement but thought there weren't enough on sale to go that far. Guess I was wrong.

benjitara
22-01-2014, 10:43 AM
This is the height of irrationality. ignore the companies abyssmal sales record and revenue, just focus on that one word - AMAZON. Speculators will be the only winners here...

totally agree with that Moosie. Looking at the numbers this stock was overvalued by some margin at 22cents! Traders will be loving it but I'm yet to hear any numbers from management that would cast a more positive light on their overall performance. Anyway good luck to those buying in.

winner69
22-01-2014, 10:47 AM
This is the height of irrationality. ignore the companies abyssmal sales record and revenue, just focus on that one word - AMAZON. Speculators will be the only winners here...

Did wonders for Pumpkin Patch going to Amazon

Probably rational thinking by those 'irrational' ones moose ......double sales double the share price ...totally rational to me

Schrodinger
22-01-2014, 10:53 AM
All about the margins. Nothing less. Just look at RAK for a history lesson. Add a degree of difficulty factor for a manufacturing business (they still make them?) and this becomes very risky. I would expect a huge return for these factors..

This company doesnt fill me with confidence in terms of profitability and their understanding of it.

SirPrize
22-01-2014, 11:00 AM
http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/most-popular-websites

There is no better website than this for retail. Amazon is the real deal.

000831
22-01-2014, 11:03 AM
index needs wyn, mad those tech stocks leading to break through 5000, go go go!!!

Schrodinger
22-01-2014, 11:07 AM
http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/most-popular-websites

There is no better website than this for retail. Amazon is the real deal.

They could sell alot of bulbs for a loss then go out of business. Maybe this Amazon deal will accelerate their plan.

000831
22-01-2014, 11:09 AM
MAD a tech stock? How old are you 000831?

not a problem mate, wall street describe it as new energy product, high technology,etc..................so

SirPrize
22-01-2014, 11:13 AM
They could sell alot of bulbs for a loss then go out of business. Maybe this Amazon deal will accelerate their plan.

Interesting. Could you please elaborate on the scenario where MAD agrees to sell for a loss and then go out of business.

000831
22-01-2014, 11:14 AM
Interesting. Could you please elaborate on the scenario where MAD agrees to sell for a loss and then go out of business.

that's SNK style, not sure for MAD

Schrodinger
22-01-2014, 11:33 AM
Interesting. Could you please elaborate on the scenario where MAD agrees to sell for a loss and then go out of business.

The general trend for manufacturing is:

NZ company invents great technology>promises huge returns>[insert incompetent management]>builds loss making factory in foreign country>finds out that they are running a loss making factory (late)> sells factory to foreign "partner" along with their IP> while this is happening margins are declining as competition increases >looks for new products and less attractive channels>repeat.

Seems like RAK and MAD are very similar.

SirPrize
22-01-2014, 11:35 AM
The general trend for manufacturing is:

NZ company invents great technology>promises huge returns>[insert incompetent management]>builds loss making factory in foreign country>finds out that they are running a loss making factory (late)> sells factory to foreign "partner" along with their IP> while this is happening margins are declining as competition increases >looks for new products and less attractive channels>repeat.

Seems like RAK and MAD are very similar.

Thank you for elaborating on that. Very interesting. Let's hope for all the shareholders that this will not be the case.

Schrodinger
22-01-2014, 12:01 PM
Its not all bad for NZ manufacturers. FPH, SCT and a few others have managed to maintain or stabilise their margins.

Be careful when you invest in these type of companies.

winner69
22-01-2014, 01:00 PM
Its not all bad for NZ manufacturers. FPH, SCT and a few others have managed to maintain or stabilise their margins.

Be careful when you invest in these type of companies.


WDT are doing OK with good technology

Leftfield
22-01-2014, 01:45 PM
WDT are doing OK with good technology

I'm not sure shareholders would agree.... it has been a rocky road until some joy lately.

Disc - not holding

SirPrize
23-01-2014, 09:29 AM
0.8? Like a glove.

benjitara
23-01-2014, 09:32 AM
I now move to suggest a new name for this thread. It shouldn't be MAD it should be INSANITY.

Longhaul
23-01-2014, 10:01 AM
The general trend for manufacturing is:

NZ company invents great technology>promises huge returns>[insert incompetent management]>builds loss making factory in foreign country>finds out that they are running a loss making factory (late)> sells factory to foreign "partner" along with their IP> while this is happening margins are declining as competition increases >looks for new products and less attractive channels>repeat.

Seems like RAK and MAD are very similar.

When I read this it brought to mind a book SparkytheClown recommended last year - The Dhandho Investor. On the face of it I fail to see what Energy Mad's competitive advantage is, and if they have one, how long will it last?

The BOWMAN
23-01-2014, 10:09 AM
When I read this it brought to mind a book SparkytheClown recommended last year - The Dhandho Investor. On the face of it I fail to see what Energy Mad's competitive advantage is, and if they have one, how long will it last?

Very good comment.

winner69
24-01-2014, 03:51 PM
. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/energy-mads-products-out-stock-amazon-shares-tank-dw-p-151022

Energy Mad products out of stock on Amazon - shares plunge

NBR says so ......MAD shares that is, not Amazons

Schrodinger
29-01-2014, 09:45 AM
Anyone watching the share price over the past week lol. Someone lost alot of money.

winner69
29-01-2014, 10:15 AM
Anyone watching the share price over the past week lol. Someone lost alot of money.

And no doubt some or one made a lot of money?

MAD been very quiet publicly on this. They announce Amazon ...good stuff eh. Then some dude has a look at Amazon and it says not available and spreads the word ..panic panic .....head honcho at MAD pissed as hell ......punters don't understand why he says ......BUT ANY OFFICIAL NZX ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MAD ......OR ENQUIRIES FROM THE NZX?

percy
29-01-2014, 11:34 AM
My wife told me to buy them as Bernard on the radio said they were great.!!!
Have not looked at them yet,as I have been busy scouting Mad Butcher shops.!

percy
29-01-2014, 12:09 PM
Percy, please ignore the wife. This is the one time in maybe a decade you can claim she is very wrong. Take that opportunity with both hands!

I agree with you.!!!!
Have a great get together tonight.
Good team in Auckland,so enjoy their company.!

SirPrize
30-01-2014, 07:09 AM
http://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-75406-replacement-800-Lumen/product-reviews/B002C097DM/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

First set of reviews...? Ugh...

Schrodinger
30-01-2014, 07:56 AM
When I read this it brought to mind a book SparkytheClown recommended last year - The Dhandho Investor. On the face of it I fail to see what Energy Mad's competitive advantage is, and if they have one, how long will it last?

This is why I avoid investing in technology manufacturing businesses. It is extremely diificult to build big ones in NZ and they will have to be exceptional for me to go near one. Brian Gaynor was quoted a few years back talking about how diificult it is from NZ in these industries.

Food/beverage manufacturing is less risky and usually a solid vertical, however recent experiences show NZ is far behind the rest of the world in food manufacturing standards.

Schrodinger
30-01-2014, 07:58 AM
http://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-75406-replacement-800-Lumen/product-reviews/B002C097DM/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

First set of reviews...? Ugh...

umm do EM brand as GE now? WTF!

SirPrize
30-01-2014, 08:10 AM
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Ecospiral

Scratch that. The 'Ecospiral' are still out of stock... dont know why the GE product features on that search list....

My mistake.

winner69
30-01-2014, 08:49 AM
I think temporary out of stock means they havent even even been in stock yet

Maybe someone did the hype thing a bit early

Xerof
04-02-2014, 08:00 PM
you can't even buy a bulb on Amazon, to change the dead one, so you can be the last one to turn out the light!

ScrappyO
04-02-2014, 09:08 PM
[QUOTE=SparkyTheClown;459349]The oddest thing happened tonight. My wife tells me that someone from "Energy mad" came and knocked on our door in Central Auckland, trying to sell us lightbulbs. It wasn't convenient (dinner was being prepped), so I don't know much more. But very odd that a company hyping its Amazon sales is now also selling door to door.

Im an electrician in Auckland and some of my clients have phoned me up about energy mad to ask me if I know about them. To be honest there is better products out there.

winner69
25-02-2014, 11:01 AM
MAD tells us Amazon United States receives 105 million unique visitors each month.


So if only 1% buy 1 Ecospiral thats 1 million light bulbs a month - 12 million a year

BUY BUY BUY

winner69
25-02-2014, 11:02 AM
MAD tells us Amazon United States receives 105 million unique visitors each month.


So if only 1% buy 1 Ecospiral thats 1 million light bulbs a month - 12 million a year

BUY BUY BUY

Glendoonie
28-03-2014, 10:44 AM
MAD tells us Amazon United States receives 105 million unique visitors each month.

So if only 1% buy 1 Ecospiral thats 1 million light bulbs a month - 12 million a year

BUY BUY BUY

Amazon.com has a plethora of Energy MAD ecobulbs. now. Check it out!

If the availability SNAFU has passed where are all the buyers?

winner69
28-03-2014, 11:04 AM
And there is more from MAD

MAD proudly reported the other day “This confirms the potential for doing direct mail projects with electricity utilities in conjunction with Walgreen stores where Energy Mad sold 2,200 light bulbs in one month in one store out of 8,000 Walgreens stores”, he said.

So is the inference 2,200 light bulbs X 8,000 Walgreen stores = 17.6 million light bulbs a month X 12 months gives a possible 211 million bulbs a year

And that is only Walgreens

Lets say the exaggeration factor is 50% - still 100 million bulbs a year

And the next day they announce to the market a cost saving exercise is under way .... hope the bulb maker isn't the first to go

winner69
28-03-2014, 11:06 AM
Now if only BLT could get 1 lozenge in the mouth of every Chinese kid

Glendoonie
28-03-2014, 11:15 AM
Unfounded speculation is what drives the NZX (and others). Responce to a perceived threat is one thing; lack of action when the so-called threat is removed is pure stupidity. Most investors are no better than sheep as they can't think for themselves.
The bulb maker in in China. No problems there :-)

FUJIAN ECOBULB CO., LTD
Zheng Feng Industrial Zone,Xiangqian Town
Minhou County,Fuzhou - CHINA
Phone: 86-591-22278239 - Fax: 86-591-22271010

winner69
28-03-2014, 11:32 AM
moosie .... do you think I just got told off by gd

Glendoonie
28-03-2014, 11:54 AM
Question: did you buy in on the hype stage months back?

I admit, I bought before I had done my homework. Well, I may be part human, part sheep. The Bulb supply issue is water under the bridge now. The hold up occurred between manufacture and distribution.

Longhaul
28-03-2014, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE=SparkyTheClown;459349]The oddest thing happened tonight. My wife tells me that someone from "Energy mad" came and knocked on our door in Central Auckland, trying to sell us lightbulbs. It wasn't convenient (dinner was being prepped), so I don't know much more. But very odd that a company hyping its Amazon sales is now also selling door to door.

Im an electrician in Auckland and some of my clients have phoned me up about energy mad to ask me if I know about them. To be honest there is better products out there.

Same this happened to my mum on Auckland's North Shore a few weeks ago. They knocked on the door and asked what kind of lighting she has installed. They recommended she replace all her downlights with their brand/product due to the fire risk of the current types (not entirely convinced about the reason). I suggested she get another quote.

Seems like a similar direct sales approach that HRV used and received all kinds of negative feedback about a few years ago, although I'm not implying there's anything wrong with the MAD products.

Glendoonie
29-03-2014, 09:38 AM
Sorry to say mate you only have yourself to blame then. Speculation is not for the long-termer!

Thanks for staating the bleeding obvious, MATE. I feel SO much better for it.



Dinnae teach yer Granny tae suck eggs!

benjitara
29-03-2014, 10:13 AM
I couldn't believe the SP went up so much on the amazon announcement. They should change the people rather than trying to change the people. Company history should have raised a big red flag but that's the difference between traders and investors. It's unlikely that i'll ever invest in the stock but did do some crude financials and came up with a Net Profit figure of around 600k being acceptable for a sp of around 40% lower than it currently is. They'll certainly have to do a lot more "cost cutting" to get to those sort of figures.

minimoke
28-05-2014, 01:00 PM
Christ, these gyys trying to become the new RAK or something? Absolutely abysmal FY with a massive tax loss deferment literally hanging on a kinfe edge. What a damn mess...
These guys sparked a bit of interest with me pre IPO. But in the end I concluded "By my reckoning that puts Energy Mad into a gamble category (along with the likes of Tasman Capital) and should belong in a TAB/Lotto type thread" I haven't seen much to change that view since then.

benjitara
28-05-2014, 01:10 PM
To be honest I think they've gone down a pretty dark road considering they're a lighting company! I've never thought their reporting was lacking in hype. disappointing result.

Snow Leopard
09-07-2014, 08:56 PM
https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3648651

Definitely a 2014 candidate for penny dreadful/bankruptcy. Sad RAK didn't make it to that point first...

If I was a gambling Tiger I would still put my money on Rakon over Energy Mad.

This is the loss of $7.7M of tax losses which are off the balance sheet.
As such they would only become of any use if MAD start making a profit and menas they will be tax on profits earlier than they would otherwise.

I reckon MAD will be able to stutter along on their small losses after the RAK money sink hole as sucked the last cent down.*

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

*Recapitalization and any other event that may prove me wrong excluded.

winner69
18-07-2014, 04:50 PM
Head honcho says in profit this financial year. The direct selling of LED bulbs going to work
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20142138

Market reacted to news big time today as price sinks to 15 cents

Year high was 83 cents .....Must be cheap as now

Bobcat.
18-07-2014, 04:59 PM
Head honcho says in profit this financial year. The direct selling of LED bulbs going to work
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20142138

Market reacted to news big time today as price sinks to 15 cents

Year high was 83 cents .....Must be cheap as now

Here's the correction:

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3654431

...but yes, I'm also getting more interested in a short term play from around 13-14c. Leading up to the AGM, there could well be a bounce.

Let's not forget however that this is $6.5m company with an NTA of only 1cps and no positive earnings as yet.

winner69
18-07-2014, 06:06 PM
Here's the correction:

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3654431

...but yes, I'm also getting more interested in a short term play from around 13-14c. Leading up to the AGM, there could well be a bounce.

Let's not forget however that this is $6.5m company with an NTA of only 1cps and no positive earnings as yet.

I think Mr Mardon needs to talk more clearly

When I heard it this morning Mr Mardon in his own words (not the reporters) definitely said / gave the impression of profit this financial .... and he would say how much when interim was announced

The AGM was yesterday BC

Bobcat.
18-07-2014, 06:12 PM
The AGM was yesterday BC

Oh yes, I see now this morning's results. Clearly, people attending the AGM were not overly impressed with what was said. A drop of 19% the day after.

Did anybody reading this attend? If so, please clarify what if anything said spelt doom (apart from the massive reduction in claimable tax losses that is old news).

winner69
18-07-2014, 06:17 PM
Correction - head honcho is Dr Mardon

See ASM presentation made no mention of Amazon .... the reason the shareprice went up so strongly a few months ago

dingoNZ
18-07-2014, 08:28 PM
Watch this over the next 12 months, I am betting with the new business model they will gain a lot of momentum. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is too.

RGR367
18-07-2014, 10:25 PM
..............Next RAK anyone???

No. Like CTL perhaps?

winner69
04-09-2014, 10:12 AM
See share price down to 10 cents

Have they had a share split or something lately?

Last time I looked the share price was close to 70 cents, shortly after that Amazon announcement

Baaarney
04-09-2014, 02:27 PM
add to that the change to LED from compact fluro. Its important to not that the Amazon announcement related to CFL (not LED) and there were issues in February with Amazon being "temporary out of stock"

golden city
08-09-2014, 03:37 PM
share price striking back

golden city
12-09-2014, 03:48 PM
what is going on? share price double..looks like triple trend too

golden city
22-09-2014, 11:04 AM
another good news comming with cost reduction of 1.3m pa

golden city
01-10-2014, 09:36 PM
hopefully can turn into a profit

Chaowee88
09-11-2014, 07:40 PM
it's back down to 20c. Might be a good opportunity to top up before 6 month report later this month.

I'm guess a huge turn around after recent cost cutting and hopefully strong growth in NZ direct sales.

Also, it's been over a month since they launched US direct sales test campaign but still waiting on results from those.

I'd be a little skeptical, since day 1 they have said we will make a profit but failed every time ...

I initially had a position in this around 30C then it dived to 25 after another poor result, before the amazon announcement an I sold out for a nice profit, but really management haven't shown any whiff of actually making their bulbs a viable business.

Chaowee88
18-11-2014, 12:49 PM
Risk and reward is too much, if you get it right and the company turns around there is big upside but should it fail again, then it will go will and truly into the dust. There is no equity left and they will need to raise more cash..

It not for me too much risk

winner69
26-11-2014, 10:53 AM
Superlife love throwing money at these things eh

Well 13% interest not too bad and convert at 13 cents is a good deal if you want to own all the company

Chaowee88
26-11-2014, 12:52 PM
Why would Energy Mad do this 1 day before their 6 monthly report?

Either the ships sinking or they've given their best friends a bone.

More $$ for MAD to burn. Pretty much can guess already what they will say in their half year already.

Chaowee88
26-11-2014, 04:03 PM
Something's not right here.

They had only drawn down half of the $2.25m note by mid year. Not only have they issued this new note, but they have already drawn down the full amount.

Why would they issue only $284k, it's such a tiny amount, and a huge discount percentage wise. That's not going to fund any significant growth.

It's a good way for SuperLife to average down on their last issue at 35c but why they would they keep throwing money at this?

I guess we'll find out tomorrow (or Friday), either Mad is going to go bankrupt in a matter of weeks or SuperLife have pressured the two founders into issuing cheap shares.

Probably their last role of the dice. If this last push doesn't work then Superlife have given up as their not prepared to throw anymore $$ at this.

Beagle
26-11-2014, 04:18 PM
Yep, your right Chaowee88, this looks like the perfect one to add to the boxed trifecta for 3 collapses in 2015, PPL CAV and this. If at least one of them don't go under in 2015 I'll eat my hat.

Chaowee88
26-11-2014, 05:17 PM
Yep, your right Chaowee88, this looks like the perfect one to add to the boxed trifecta for 3 collapses in 2015, PPL CAV and this. If at least one of them don't go under in 2015 I'll eat my hat.

The interesting thing out of the 3 is MAD is the one which has failed on an epic scale and lied it way since it prospectus. It said it would be profitable from day one but this guy Dr Mardon made holders believe in fairytales. Now banks won't lend to this garbage which is why they've resorted to borrowing at 13%.

BFG
26-11-2014, 05:25 PM
Unbelievable. Imagine the poor suckers who bought in after the Amazon announcement came out early this year. That revenue stream is obviously going nowhere fast!

winner69
26-11-2014, 05:38 PM
The interesting thing out of the 3 is MAD is the one which has failed on an epic scale and lied it way since it prospectus. It said it would be profitable from day one but this guy Dr Mardon made holders believe in fairytales. Now banks won't lend to this garbage which is why they've resorted to borrowing at 13%.

So not a good idea for a kiwisaver / superanuation provider taking an even greater position?

Few on sharetrader tout Superlife as their priovidor

Grimy
26-11-2014, 06:48 PM
I haven't been following this thread, but Superlife is my Kiwi Saver provider. I am in only cash and bonds though.

minimoke
27-11-2014, 06:35 AM
I haven't been following this thread, but Superlife is my Kiwi Saver provider. I am in only cash and bonds though.you are still likely to have an exposure. ACC is bound to have a holding.

benjitara
27-11-2014, 08:50 AM
"However, Walgreens has not given Energy Mad sufficient support to enable Energy Mad to deliver on the Walgreens sales potential, despite the significant United States electricity utility energy efficiency funding Energy Mad had in place and the Energy Mad efforts to support this potential.
As a result, Energy Mad has chosen to increase its investment into the direct to consumer opportunities in New Zealand and Australia, while reducing its investment into the United States. No restructuring costs are expected in implementing this decision. "

pretty much says it all about their strategy. Can't believe this company will be around too much longer in its current state.

BFG
27-11-2014, 09:29 AM
My God what a balls up. They were always toting Walgreens as their bread and butter (and marmalade!).

Now, where are my shorts...?

minimoke
27-11-2014, 09:56 AM
Finally an IPO to whet our appetites. Anyone use their light bulbs. This year it had revenue of $8.6m and reported net profit of $0.8mI'm reminded of my very first post in this company. Revenues now $4m for six months and operating loss of $1.2m.

With an ipad armed sales force I can only imagine Kirkby vacuum sellers will have an alternative product to spruik.

Edit. I'd also add they have no chance in christchurch. We know what it is like having ipad armed door knockers and we all know it's just the start of a very unpleasant experience.

dodgy
27-11-2014, 10:50 AM
I'm reminded of my very first post in this company. Revenues now $4m for six months and operating loss of $1.2m.

With an ipad armed sales force I can only imagine Kirkby vacuum sellers will have an alternative product to spruik.

Edit. I'd also add they have no chance in christchurch. We know what it is like having ipad armed door knockers and we all know it's just the start of a very unpleasant experience.

Hi all
After visiting the home show I booked an appointment with a "Direct Sales - consultant" to see if the economics of replacing my existing bulbs with LEDs would work for my consumption patterns. Well, the Auckland based head (his words) hard sell merchant arrived, and wasted both of our times with a pressure cooker sales approach. I can't see that this direct method can be cost effective or the product must be very overpriced to sustain the overhead. As the company now appears to be hanging on this method of income generation I for 1 will not be buying into the story. Note: No sale was concluded .

ScrappyO
27-11-2014, 07:41 PM
Hi all
After visiting the home show I booked an appointment with a "Direct Sales - consultant" to see if the economics of replacing my existing bulbs with LEDs would work for my consumption patterns. Well, the Auckland based head (his words) hard sell merchant arrived, and wasted both of our times with a pressure cooker sales approach. I can't see that this direct method can be cost effective or the product must be very overpriced to sustain the overhead. As the company now appears to be hanging on this method of income generation I for 1 will not be buying into the story. Note: No sale was concluded .

Energy mad are doing it all wrong. They should be targeting Electricians like myself to push the products but then I've seen the products and in my opinion there are far better Light fittings out there.
I'm thinking this is why they have had to do the hard sell.

Also not many people know who energy mad are, unless you are a shareholder.

Disc. not a holder.

Chaowee88
07-12-2014, 12:42 PM
The interesting thing out of the 3 is MAD is the one which has failed on an epic scale and lied it way since it prospectus. It said it would be profitable from day one but this guy Dr Mardon made holders believe in fairytales. Now banks won't lend to this garbage which is why they've resorted to borrowing at 13%.

Quick look at it books, 181K cash remaining, operating outflow 1.3 mill in half a year, if they can't find more capital MAD is done end of Feb or early March.

They also have a note facility of 2.25mill @ 12.5%. That 23K per month in interest, in other words, see you later MAD it GG

Chaowee88
10-02-2015, 10:24 PM
They updated their website. Is this a sign of a new beginning?

http://www.energymad.com/

Stop trying to ramp this dog lol, today's horror rights issue is enough, this be the last straw. Imagine the horrified investors who burned all their $$. 6.5C right issue yea right more $$ to burn for the sorry investors to feed Mardon and his hyper inflated dreams.

chchholder
17-02-2015, 06:19 PM
Stop trying to ramp this dog lol, today's horror rights issue is enough, this be the last straw. Imagine the horrified investors who burned all their $$. 6.5C right issue yea right more $$ to burn for the sorry investors to feed Mardon and his hyper inflated dreams.


energymad products are excellent its obvious the man in charge of the finance that needs to go ...its only as good as its leader and thats not mardon

chchholder
19-02-2015, 08:35 AM
i had "free lighting assessment" with mad and the new led products are a fantastic leap forward from the old cfl bulbs they started with ,finally a reliable quality product that all shareholders should be investing in to back the company and its new style .how can we expect to make money if we dont use the product we are relying on to make money ....happy chch holder

Harvey Specter
19-02-2015, 08:54 AM
Energy mad are doing it all wrong. They should be targeting Electricians like myself to push the products but then I've seen the products and in my opinion there are far better Light fittings out there. I'm thinking this is why they have had to do the hard sell.


i had "free lighting assessment" with mad and the new led products are a fantastic leap forward from the old cfl bulbs they started with ,finally a reliable quality product that all shareholders should be investing in to back the company and its new style .how can we expect to make money if we dont use the product we are relying on to make money ....happy chch holderBut how do they compare to the competition - per Scrappy above, not that well.

bob.not.a.builder
19-02-2015, 10:03 PM
A bit behind the competition from what I hear. It took them too long to realize that CFL isnt the way to go. Alot more competition now.

Moving forward, I agree that they should target electricians. Some of the lights out there are complete crap in terms of installing.

minimoke
03-06-2015, 08:45 AM
Probably worth mentioning Co founder Tom mackenzie is leaving the company with immediate effect "to pursue a new business opportunity"

Hoop
31-03-2016, 10:49 AM
MAD has gone mad today up +112% :)

FORECAST: MAD: MAD Refocus as Australian Quarterly Revenues Quintuples (https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4116362)

BlackPeter
15-06-2016, 04:06 PM
Anybody still following this stock?

I happened to look into the chart and discovered to my big surprise that something seemed to have changed with this (what I thought) basket case - the SP is now technically in an uptrend (yes, it passed the Golden Cross and the SP is above MA 200 and MA 50)! Admittedly - low basis, low volume and low everything, but just based on the trend it looks like Mr. Market thinks there might be a glimmer of hope for battered shareholders.

I assume the positive sales numbers from Australia have something to do with it ... and the fact that they managed to get some financial breathing space through this credit from their cornerstone share holder. On the other hand - the interest rates are nearly on credit card level - i.e. I guess they are not yet out of the doldrums.

What do people think - is this just a statistical aberration - or are things really improving for MAD?

Discl: not holding;

BlackPeter
06-07-2016, 11:14 AM
Anybody still following this stock?

I happened to look into the chart and discovered to my big surprise that something seemed to have changed with this (what I thought) basket case - the SP is now technically in an uptrend (yes, it passed the Golden Cross and the SP is above MA 200 and MA 50)! Admittedly - low basis, low volume and low everything, but just based on the trend it looks like Mr. Market thinks there might be a glimmer of hope for battered shareholders.

I assume the positive sales numbers from Australia have something to do with it ... and the fact that they managed to get some financial breathing space through this credit from their cornerstone share holder. On the other hand - the interest rates are nearly on credit card level - i.e. I guess they are not yet out of the doldrums.

What do people think - is this just a statistical aberration - or are things really improving for MAD?

Discl: not holding;

In case anybody just wants to get his/her teeth into something different than the boring run of the mill financially healthy companies, than Energy mad's latest financial report might be the right thing to read: (https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/238091.pdf);

Just some observations:

Cashburn in FY 2016 was roughly $100k p. month. They have at balance date (31. March) $290k left; Q: When are they running out of cash?
Hint - the answer is not that easy, given that they claimed last month that they make now some trading profit with their Australian business and expect it to stay that way: https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4157917;

Inventory doubled in FY2016 to $2.3m - quite a lot for a company producing standard bulbs and some 8 million dollars annual revenue. Interesting as well that some 400k of their stock are obsolescence "write offs" - More than their released cash position ...

Liabilities exceeding total assets by some $1.2m, which basically means that every share carries a negative equity of 2 cents or so;

Ah yes - and even the auditors comments are interesting:

Emphasis of Matter – Fundamental Uncertainty in relation to Going Concern
Without modifying our opinion, we draw attention to the disclosures made in Note 3 in the
financial statements which indicates that the ability of the Group to continue in operational
existence is dependent upon their ability to generate positive cash flows from operations. These
conditions indicate the existence of a material uncertainty that may cast significant doubt about the
Group’s ability to continue as a going concern.


Wondering as well, whether the proposed director David Jarman is the same who run the finances for South Canterbury Finance as CFO at the time they collapsed. At face value (after some Internet research) it looks that way. On the bright side ... if that's him, than he must have some experience in winding companies down;
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3647569/South-Canterbury-Finance-deal-in-spotlight

The other director (Andrew Plympton ) seems to have a lot of experience in the sporting arena (sports gear, socker club, olympic commitee, sports commission, sailing club, ... hope this prepared him well for the inevitable challenges on board of Energy Mad.

Sad. GLTAH!

Discl: Not holding

BlackPeter
28-07-2016, 03:34 PM
AGM today ...and just in case anybody cares (there must be more than the 7 share holders I saw at the meeting?):

Attending: roughly as many shareholders as board members and staff ... i.e. it was a quite small AGM;

Meeting was run (and quite tightly controlled) by the chair (Dr. Brent Wheeler). The MD Chris Marden gave a brief presentation highlighting the turnaround in operating profit from a big loss of negative $2.9 m in 2014/15 over negative 895k in 2015/16 to now a small plus ($348k in 1Q2016);

The presentation made as well clear that the company strategy focuses at this stage on the Australian market – installing as we speak an Australian sales office.

Key information and presentation are here:
https://www.nzx.com/companies/MAD/announcements/286364

Lively Q+A session with most shareholders involved and asking questions. Here are just some key points (for the few ;) shareholders who couldn't make it). Please note – this is based on my recollection and not independently reviewed.

Current cash position: The company traded last quarter cash positive and it is fair to assume that the cash position is now better than it was at the time of the annual report;

Sales strategy (and flat NZ sales): The company emphasised that they are not in the business of selling to consumers, but that they consider themselves a player in the B2B market. Their focus is to sell at this stage into the Australian market where energy saving products are taxpayer subsidised, they do not focus on the New Zealand market which is different.

Inventory / Lean manufacturing commenting on quite high inventory write offs (4.4% of total turnover in 2016) and inventory:
They don’t manufacture themselves, but buy from factories (mainly?) in China. Fast technological changes force them to obsolete some of their inventory; Customers commit to orders as late as possible, pushing the obsolescence risk towards them.

Given that they are a very small player in a huge market – what is their moat?
A: They became very good in identifying opportunities in the B2B market.

How do they see the potential for this company in say 3 or 5 years?
A: The Australian market is huge (and so far they scratched just the surface) – and there are as well a large number of other regional markets around.

What I learned:

Their strategy is not selling to consumers but B2B - currently most of their bulbs are free to the consumer, courtesy of the Australian tax payer;

roughly 2/3 of their revenue are dependant on political decisions of the Australian parliament (subsidising these bulbs). Feels like a lot of eggs in just one basket;

chairman seemed to have a quite tight control over the board (even answering questions asked to other board members) ... which may or may not be a good thing;

Overall - good to meet the people and great learning opportunity.

minimoke
28-07-2016, 03:52 PM
AGM today ...and just in case anybody cares (there must be more than the 7 share holders I saw at the meeting?):

Attending: roughly as many shareholders as board members and staff ... i.e. it was a quite small AGM;

Meeting was run (and quite tightly controlled) by the chair (Dr. Brent Wheeler). The MD Chris Marden gave a brief presentation highlighting the turnaround in operating profit from a big loss of negative $2.9 m in 2014/15 over negative 895k in 2015/16 to now a small plus ($348k in 1Q2016);

The presentation made as well clear that the company strategy focuses at this stage on the Australian market – installing as we speak an Australian sales office.

Key information and presentation are here:
https://www.nzx.com/companies/MAD/announcements/286364

Lively Q+A session with most shareholders involved and asking questions. Here are just some key points (for the few ;) shareholders who couldn't make it). Please note – this is based on my recollection and not independently reviewed.

Current cash position: The company traded last quarter cash positive and it is fair to assume that the cash position is now better than it was at the time of the annual report;

Sales strategy (and flat NZ sales): The company emphasised that they are not in the business of selling to consumers, but that they consider themselves a player in the B2B market. Their focus is to sell at this stage into the Australian market where energy saving products are taxpayer subsidised, they do not focus on the New Zealand market which is different.

Inventory / Lean manufacturing commenting on quite high inventory write offs (4.4% of total turnover in 2016) and inventory:
They don’t manufacture themselves, but buy from factories (mainly?) in China. Fast technological changes force them to obsolete some of their inventory; Customers commit to orders as late as possible, pushing the obsolescence risk towards them.

Given that they are a very small player in a huge market – what is their moat?
A: They became very good in identifying opportunities in the B2B market.

How do they see the potential for this company in say 3 or 5 years?
A: The Australian market is huge (and so far they scratched just the surface) – and there are as well a large number of other regional markets around.

What I learned:

Their strategy is not selling to consumers but B2B - currently most of their bulbs are free to the consumer, courtesy of the Australian tax payer;

roughly 2/3 of their revenue are dependant on political decisions of the Australian parliament (subsidising these bulbs). Feels like a lot of eggs in just one basket;

chairman seemed to have a quite tight control over the board (even answering questions asked to other board members) ... which may or may not be a good thing;

Overall - good to meet the people and great learning opportunity.
Im afraid none of that would fill me with confidence.

If i was procurement manager at contact (or whatever australian company you want to call it) why wouldn't i just go straight to alibaba and pick bulbs up at $1.50 a pop.

Who cares if they are crap bulbs. The are free so the end consumer has no expectation.

BlackPeter
28-07-2016, 04:06 PM
Im afraid none of that would fill me with confidence.

If i was procurement manager at contact (or whatever australian company you want to call it) why wouldn't i just go straight to alibaba and pick bulbs up at $1.50 a pop.

Who cares if they are crap bulbs. The are free so the end consumer has no expectation.

Well - at least at the moment they do have a contract and even operate cash flow positive, so they must have managed to convince one (or a number of) procurement managers.

However - you clearly highlighted a risk which might well drop the big basket they put most of their eggs into ...

BTW - I tried to give a summary of the meeting, not a sales pitch for their shares. Sounds like I was successful;)

minimoke
28-07-2016, 04:13 PM
However - you clearly highlighted a risk which might well drop the big basket they put most of their eggs into ...

BTW - I tried to give a summary of the meeting, not a sales pitch for their shares. Sounds like I was successful;)
Id also suggest it is a long bow to call yourself B2B when you essentially have just one customer.

Its a sign they have failed to ignite enthusiasm of other business towards their offering - somthing which remains a constant with this company.

(Thanks for the summary - never saw it as a pitch)

winner69
13-03-2017, 09:48 AM
Sounds exciting


Special Division of New Zealand Markets Disciplinary Tribunal (“NZMDT”) advises that, at the request of the company, it has placed a trading halt on Energy Mad Limited (“MAD”) ordinary shares.

The trading halt was placed at 10.22am this morning.

minimoke
13-03-2017, 11:52 AM
Sounds exciting
If you enjoy the sound of a death rattle

When the bass drops
14-03-2017, 09:57 AM
Are there any other stocks out there at the moment that remind you of MAD?

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 10:05 AM
Are there any other stocks out there at the moment that remind you of MAD?

Why do you ask - looking for some investment ideas ;) - are you?

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 10:21 AM
Sounds like they think they might have found a suitor:

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4386179

When the bass drops
14-03-2017, 11:00 AM
Not particularly BlackPeter, I was just keen to get some views from others around companies that are in a similar boat to MAD in their business cycle. From all accounts MAD is struggling.

peat
14-03-2017, 12:01 PM
Sounds like they think they might have found a suitor:

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4386179


Do you think you can really infer that from the statement?




"currently pursuing a potential sale of the business as one


of those options."

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 12:51 PM
Do you think you can really infer that from the statement?




"currently pursuing a potential sale of the business as one


of those options."






good question - but if not, what was the point of the trading halt?
Note - I didn't say that they found a suitor, only that it looks like they seem to think that they found one ;)

minimoke
14-03-2017, 12:53 PM
"For sale"? Who would buy. Liabilities probably exceed assets, too much aged obsolete inventory, a $1m loan at 20% has to be hurting, bleeding cash. And the good points are??

minimoke
14-03-2017, 12:54 PM
From all accounts MAD is struggling. can you point to a time when they haven't?

winner69
14-03-2017, 01:12 PM
Does Superlife still have a decent chunk of MAD besides the loan

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 01:20 PM
"For sale"? Who would buy. Liabilities probably exceed assets, too much aged obsolete inventory, a $1m loan at 20% has to be hurting, bleeding cash. And the good points are??

Just to clarify ... I don't try to sell them ... I don't hold .... and I do not recommend to buy.

I guess their supply contracts (not sure how long term they are) might have some value for somebody. Haven't checked their balance sheet since the last AGM, but yes, they used to have negative equity, however their (at that stage) latest contract was generating more cash than they spent. Don't expect them to get rich that way, but they might be closer to nil equity now than at AGM time (which would be good if you start with negative equity).

The board might see the last time window to sell ...?

minimoke
14-03-2017, 01:57 PM
Haven't checked their balance sheet since the last AGM, but yes, they used to have negative equity, ?

Did that include the new $1m loan from superlife that went to inventory?

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 02:05 PM
Did that include the new $1m loan from superlife that went to inventory?

Good question - I suppose - the announcement of the loan (1/6) was a couple of months before the AGM (late July/ early August) ... but than, the loan would not have changed the fact that they had negative equity, just have made it worse.

winner69
14-03-2017, 03:13 PM
The $1m loan (or any loan) would not have changed Shareholder's Equity

Interim accounts 30/9/16 had Equity at negative $1.9m

But subsequent conversion of convertible notes $2.25m probably put equity back into positive territory ....but H2 losses might wipe that out

BlackPeter
14-03-2017, 03:34 PM
The $1m loan (or any loan) would not have changed Shareholder's Equity

Interim accounts 30/9/16 had Equity at negative $1.9m

But subsequent conversion of convertible notes $2.25m probably put equity back into positive territory ....but H2 losses might wipe that out

Thanks for checking the numbers ... and yes, you are absolutely right - just taking out a loan (and keeping the money) would not change the equity. However - consuming it without getting bookable value for it would ... and I thought that this is what mini meant.

minimoke
14-03-2017, 04:58 PM
However -w consuming it without getting bookable value for it would ... and I thought that this is what mini meant.
I thought the loan has been applied to inventory - i dont know current value of that inventory

whatsup
02-03-2018, 12:22 PM
Mad giving up on light bulbs and now being used as a back door listing for a cloud based software service company provider for payroll solutions.
MAD shareholders will retain 3% of this backdoor listing after D D , ideas / comments welcome.

minimoke
02-03-2018, 01:58 PM
Mad giving up on light bulbs and now being used as a back door listing for a cloud based software service company provider for payroll solutions.
MAD shareholders will retain 3% of this backdoor listing after D D , ideas / comments welcome.
Three warning bells. Asanth has been awarded a gong of sorts - and Ive gone off them recently. http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/hutt-news/8152257/Asantha-Wijeyeratne-awarded-QSM

Also mentioned in Deloitte's fast 500 and we know how much due diligence there is done of those awards.

I'd stay clear of anything to do with immigration. And you would want to ask them about any exposure to holiday pay miscalculation actions

whatsup
02-03-2018, 04:02 PM
WOW !!!! up 333% + + + WOW , is this for real ?

minimoke
02-03-2018, 04:06 PM
WOW !!!! up 333% + + + WOW , is this for real ?
No its not. Holy smoke batman its up 466% on close of business.

Warning Will Robinson Warning!!

whatsup
02-03-2018, 04:09 PM
WOW !!!! up 333% + + + WOW , is this for real ?

Holly tomolly 466% now that will take some beating this year !!

hardt
02-03-2018, 06:58 PM
3. Valuation: The initial indicative and non-binding estimates for the transaction are:
a. the value of the shares in PaySauce (on a debt free / cash free basis) is approximately $10 million; and
b. the value of the shares in the Company ( MAD ) is approximately $310,243 (based on the 50 day moving average market capitalisation to the date of the Term Sheet).
Based on these valuations the shareholders of the Company will retain approximately 3% of the share capital and the current shareholders of PaySauce will hold the remaining 97% of the share capital in the Company. These values are subject to final determination and may vary.

Shares coming through the backdoor are valued at $10m and current shares in MAD valued by the market today at $2.5m.
Current shareholders in MAD are going to be left with 3% of PaySauce or ( ~$300k )
Unless PaySauce is valued at $100m the current SP is going to get a massive beating from here.

Similar thing happened to TLL coming down from $5.5

minimoke
02-03-2018, 09:14 PM
Before I head of to the naughty step for offending someone tonight, who could take "Paysauce" seriously as a business name?

BlackPeter
03-03-2018, 04:04 PM
Before I head of to the naughty step for offending someone tonight, who could take "Paysauce" seriously as a business name?

Well, maybe better than MAD?

Stranger_Danger
03-03-2018, 05:01 PM
Before I head of to the naughty step for offending someone tonight, who could take "Paysauce" seriously as a business name?

The name is no accident - it changed from "Simply Payroll" late last year, presumably when the operators knew they'd be heading towards listing.

If I had to name a company to attract customers, I'd have stuck with the original name.

If my goal was to appeal to investors, then Paysauce could be almost anything (unlimited growth!) whereas Simply Payroll arguably pigeonholes them to only one potential piece of blue sky.

winner69
03-03-2018, 06:05 PM
Delicious Cloud Payroll for Human Consumption

Every business is searching for the right ingredients to unlock success and we have the recipe

Pricing simpler than a kids menu

https://www.paysauce.com

Etc etc etc