PDA

View Full Version : If National wins ...



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 [52] 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61

craic
24-07-2017, 09:14 AM
Criminals - including those who steal from their fellow men - get a small consideration in their sentence for early admissions of guilt.- It doesn't alter their conviction. Turia was studying law. How much of the money has she paid back from her very healthy salary? Doesn't she realise that this money was taken from one or more other beneficiaries whose needs were greater?

RGR367
24-07-2017, 10:22 AM
Impressed with M Turias openesss; this is exactly what this country needs. ..............

Sorry but I'm not impressed at all. I might also cross out the Greens for my party vote consideration then.

Joshuatree
24-07-2017, 10:41 AM
She claims she has never received a benefit she was not entitles to. Has been reported in several papers.

She would say that; needs to be checked out; easy.

Joshuatree
24-07-2017, 10:45 AM
Having Winston as Prime Minister would be undesirable. Having Little would be unimaginable.

Yes feels like forever when honesty led the country ,i agree about Little. Maybe close your eyes and listen rather then a superficial observation.

fungus pudding
24-07-2017, 11:24 AM
She would say that; needs to be checked out; easy.

Rest assured that half the journalists and half the opposition will be doing just that.

Bjauck
24-07-2017, 02:19 PM
Been in the UK for last couple of weeks . Reading the news here one realises how utterly divided and chaotic the UK is at the moment with no real strategy towards BREXIT ....
Sadly a large part of that faction is nothing but thugs and is now openly harassing MPs that were not in the Corbyn camp with personal threats even at their home by slashing car tires and dropping stuff at their door step, trying to push them out to get more far left candidates into their seats. ....
The ill-thought and ill-prepared Brexit referendum and result seems to have empowered the extremes on all sides in the UK.

In the 1970's when the UK was going through a tough patch politically and economically, didn't some far left UK unionists come out to NZ and try to radicalise and stir up trouble in NZ as well?

craic
24-07-2017, 02:27 PM
Judging by some posts, they are still here.

Sgt Pepper
24-07-2017, 04:10 PM
Criminals - including those who steal from their fellow men - get a small consideration in their sentence for early admissions of guilt.- It doesn't alter their conviction. Turia was studying law. How much of the money has she paid back from her very healthy salary? Doesn't she realise that this money was taken from one or more other beneficiaries whose needs were greater?

That's right. I recall one senior politician being caught out in the housing allowance scandal in 2009 and paying back $32000 to the taxpayer. I think his name was Bill English

fungus pudding
24-07-2017, 04:41 PM
That's right. I recall one senior politician being caught out in the housing allowance scandal in 2009 and paying back $32000 to the taxpayer. I think his name was Bill English

Can't be compared to an illegal activity, so what's your point?

westerly
24-07-2017, 06:19 PM
Can't be compared to an illegal activity, so what's your point?

May not be illegal but ethical ?

westerly

fungus pudding
24-07-2017, 06:34 PM
May not be illegal but ethical ?

westerly

Perfectly ethical. Lots of employees have things they can claim for.

Baa_Baa
24-07-2017, 06:45 PM
May not be illegal but ethical ?

westerly

Agree, certainly not ethical and can be proven illegal should justice prevail.

Point is there're two politicians who have brushed with benefit fraud (and one with alleged child assault), one has fessed up and seems destined to pay back their benefits payments perhaps to try to avoid criminal prosecution (shame on that) whereas the other is trying to avoid any of it as though accusations are all lies and she has no culpability. Prove it!

I say weed out the rotten apples and disbar them all from public service responsibilities, regardless of their party offiliations or positions of responsibilities. Being a cheating duplicitous scumbag cannot be condoned as a reasonable, respectable or tolerable pathway to parliament and the responsibilities that go with power and government, or opposition.

Make your bed, then lie in it. I hope this plays out to a credible conclusion for both women involved, neither are fit to govern imho.

fungus pudding
24-07-2017, 07:05 PM
Agree, certainly not ethical and can be proven illegal should justice prevail.



I have no particular desire to stick up for Bill English, but I will stick up for fairness. His was a legitimate claim that if any employees other than a politician claimed, nothing would be said. I can understand why he voluntarily paid it back - it simply wouldn't be worth the ill informed and jealous attacks directed at him to keep it.

Sgt Pepper
24-07-2017, 07:31 PM
I have no particular desire to stick up for Bill English, but I will stick up for fairness. His was a legitimate claim that if any employees other than a politician claimed, nothing would be said. I can understand why he voluntarily paid it back - it simply wouldn't be worth the ill informed and jealous attacks directed at him to keep it.


Sticking up for fairness is laudable, but for you does it extend across the political spectrum?

Baa_Baa
24-07-2017, 08:39 PM
I have no particular desire to stick up for Bill English, but I will stick up for fairness. His was a legitimate claim that if any employees other than a politician claimed, nothing would be said. I can understand why he voluntarily paid it back - it simply wouldn't be worth the ill informed and jealous attacks directed at him to keep it.

It's not about Bill, it's about whether Bennet and Turia are fit to be parliamentary representatives in government or in opposition. I think not, until one or the other or neither is found to be innocent of benefit fraud and in one case child abuse allegations against her. Turia cannot pay back her way out of culpability and Bennet has done nothing to rebut claims against her. Let due process examine who is liable, let justice take its course.

elZorro
24-07-2017, 09:08 PM
It's not about Bill, it's about whether Bennet and Turia are fit to be parliamentary representatives in government or in opposition. I think not, until one or the other or neither is found to be innocent of benefit fraud and in one case child abuse allegations against her. Turia cannot pay back her way out of culpability and Bennet has done nothing to rebut claims against her. Let due process examine who is liable, let justice take its course.

Surely it's also a matter of scale, it might be that Metiria's rent subsidy from having flatmates is not of any great monetary amount, but claiming a benefit while being employed is another thing, if proven.

fungus pudding
24-07-2017, 10:22 PM
Sticking up for fairness is laudable, but for you does it extend across the political spectrum?

Yes. Most definitely.

fungus pudding
25-07-2017, 05:41 PM
Agree, certainly not ethical and can be proven illegal should justice prevail.

Point is there're two politicians who have brushed with benefit fraud (and one with alleged child assault), one has fessed up and seems destined to pay back their benefits payments perhaps to try to avoid criminal prosecution (shame on that) whereas the other is trying to avoid any of it as though accusations are all lies and she has no culpability. Prove it!



No doubt the other one is a National MP for you to mention it. So who is the MP who has 'brushed' with fraud and is alleged to be guilty of benefit fraud? What is her name eZ?

Baa_Baa
25-07-2017, 06:01 PM
No doubt the other one is a National MP for you to mention it. So who is the MP who has 'brushed' with fraud and is alleged to be guilty of benefit fraud? What is her name eZ?

Your post barely warrants a response however, as a National supporter I cannot abide by having no rebuttal or even a response from Bennett regarding the allegations against her. Rooting out evil and corruption cannot be subjugated by partisan politics, all parties are duty bound to keep their house clean. Bennett needs to get on top of this, it won't go away and the closer to an election that it gets, the worse the fallout will be on National.

iceman
25-07-2017, 06:15 PM
Your post barely warrants a response however, as a National supporter I cannot abide by having no rebuttal or even a response from Bennett regarding the allegations against her. Rooting out evil and corruption cannot be subjugated by partisan politics, all parties are duty bound to keep their house clean. Bennett needs to get on top of this, it won't go away and the closer to an election that it gets, the worse the fallout will be on National.

Been overseas for a couple of months but read NZ papers online everyday. Still have no idea what is being frequently talked about on this forum re Bennett as I haven't seen any of it in our media. Why is that if there is truth to the allegations against her ?

Here is how Barry Soper feels about Turei's law breaking http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11895020
I am sure he would be hitting Bennett up similarly if he had proof of her doing something illegal, as he should.

I can not see how Turei can remain as Leader of the Greens. She should resign from that job and from Parliament. Does anyone think Winston will go into Government with her at the table ?

fungus pudding
25-07-2017, 06:33 PM
Been overseas for a couple of months but read NZ papers online everyday. Still have no idea what is being frequently talked about on this forum re Bennett as I haven't seen any of it in our media. Why is that if there is truth to the allegations against her ?

Here is how Barry Soper feels about Turei's law breaking http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11895020
I am sure he would be hitting Bennett up similarly if he had proof of her doing something illegal, as he should.

I can not see how Turei can remain as Leader of the Greens. She should resign from that job and from Parliament. Does anyone think Winston will go into Government with her at the table ?

No doubt every news organisation is scratching for evidence of any wrongdoing by Bennett. Obviously none has been found so far.

Sgt Pepper
25-07-2017, 08:21 PM
No doubt every news organisation is scratching for evidence of any wrongdoing by Bennett. Obviously none has been found so far.

That's correct. If the person believes an offence has been committed then he should contact the Police, who will investigate. If it has any substance they will lay a charge and place evidence before a court

Sgt Pepper
25-07-2017, 08:34 PM
Been overseas for a couple of months but read NZ papers online everyday. Still have no idea what is being frequently talked about on this forum re Bennett as I haven't seen any of it in our media. Why is that if there is truth to the allegations against her ?

Here is how Barry Soper feels about Turei's law breaking http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11895020
I am sure he would be hitting Bennett up similarly if he had proof of her doing something illegal, as he should.

I can not see how Turei can remain as Leader of the Greens. She should resign from that job and from Parliament. Does anyone think Winston will go into Government with her at the table ?

National is the first choice for Winston. I was talking to two National Party members in Dunedin yesterday who were handing out promotional material. I raised the issue of Winston sharing Prime Minister position with Bill English. One was horrified at the prospect and could scarcely believe it possible, The other was more realistic and conceded that this has happened in other proportional systems and there is no legal/constitutional impediment

elZorro
26-07-2017, 07:00 AM
No doubt every news organisation is scratching for evidence of any wrongdoing by Bennett. Obviously none has been found so far.

Tony Wall has written a well researched article (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjV34qxnKXVAhXMT7wKHRQGD38QFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuff.co.nz%2Fnational%2Fpol itics%2F94627131%2Fone-lied-one-says-she-never-did-the-untold-backstories-of-political-leaders-paula-bennett-and-metiria-turei&usg=AFQjCNFbZnoW4dBdL-8276_c9zUIS8ZXQw) about untold back stories, recently. If he learnt anything particularly unsavoury about Paula Bennett, he was careful not to put them into print. It would seem that most of what Ashley Farrell was saying would be in line with her general behaviour, as reported by several other people in this article. She was apparently the life and soul of the party, whatever that means.

More recently, there is an extensive coarse interview of Farrell by Vinny Eastwood, where amongst other things Ashley remembers Paula Bennett and others off their faces on booze and drugs (including Class A drugs) getting tattooed on the kitchen table where he was staying.

Meanwhile, we hear about how this National Government has been adding to its count of elective surgeries with relatively simple eye injections that can be carried out by trained nurses in a sterile room. The govt then uses this data to pump up its annual record of ramped elective surgeries, while other tricky operations are on the back-burner.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/07/is-the-government-misleading-kiwis-over-its-elective-surgery-target.html

fungus pudding
26-07-2017, 07:46 AM
Tony Wall has written a well researched article (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjV34qxnKXVAhXMT7wKHRQGD38QFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuff.co.nz%2Fnational%2Fpol itics%2F94627131%2Fone-lied-one-says-she-never-did-the-untold-backstories-of-political-leaders-paula-bennett-and-metiria-turei&usg=AFQjCNFbZnoW4dBdL-8276_c9zUIS8ZXQw) about untold back stories, recently.

Most unlike you to use sloppy grammar. No doubt Mr. Wall was writing about recent history, for which 'back story' is a pop misnomer. 'Back story' relates to fictional stories where an episode may be included to give prior details to stretch a bit more mileage out of a story; often called a prequil. I wasn't able to get passed that to read the rest of your post, sorry eZ. You know how I hang out for your every word.

elZorro
26-07-2017, 08:02 AM
Most unlike you to use sloppy grammar. No doubt Mr. Wall was writing about recent history, for which 'back story' is a pop minomer. 'Back story' relates to fictional stories where an episode may be included to give prior details to stretch a bit more mileage out of a story; often called a prequil. I wasn't able to get passed that to read the rest of your post, sorry eZ. You know how I hang out for your every word.

Well if we're being predantic, surely you meant "past", "not passed", FP? Anyway, that was the title of the article, not my words at all. Don't shoot the messenger.

BlackPeter
26-07-2017, 08:10 AM
Well if we're being predantic, surely you meant "past", "not passed", FP? Anyway, that was the title of the article, not my words at all. Don't shoot the messenger.

predantic? A new word or just not being pedantic enough :p? Sorry , couldn't resist ...

fungus pudding
26-07-2017, 08:15 AM
Well if we're being predantic, surely you meant "past", "not passed", FP? Anyway, that was the title of the article, not my words at all. Don't shoot the messenger.

Touchť! Yes. Indeed I meant past. Thank-you for pointing out my careless error (aka as a thinko). However, the fact the error was in the original headline does not necessitate its repetition. You're only partially forgiven.

Baa_Baa
26-07-2017, 08:20 AM
Been overseas for a couple of months but read NZ papers online everyday. Still have no idea what is being frequently talked about on this forum re Bennett as I haven't seen any of it in our media. Why is that if there is truth to the allegations against her ?

It hasn't been in NZ papers online which doesn't mean it is not the truth, although there is no basis on which to assume it is the truth either. This will bring you up to speed, post #12639 http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8606-If-National-wins&p=673819&viewfull=1#post673819 has a link to a copy of the letter originally posted on Facebook but now removed.

elZorro
26-07-2017, 09:22 AM
predantic? A new word or just not being pedantic enough :p? Sorry , couldn't resist ...

Indeed, that was a typo. I know how to spell that one. Whoops.

I notice no-one seems to be commenting on the actual contents of the post. Could it be that National are just now being further exposed as an arrogant, lying, druggy and dozy bunch of MPs, who have no intention (or ability) to lead the rest of NZ to a brighter future?

craic
26-07-2017, 09:34 AM
Judging by the nightly talkback, I'm sure the Greens will see a change in their score in the next opinion pole. Personally, Turia's confession had little effect on me, probably because of my years in Probation and the knowledge I had every day about the extent of benefit fraud. I knew that the UK had squads of officers in the community to deal with fraudsters but here we had virtually nothing other than the "letter". If they were informed of a clear fraud - a couple living together while one was working and the other on unemployment benefit - their response was to send a letter to the offender asking them to report to the office or they would stop the benefit. Prosecutions were few and far between nad I was in Court most days.

Joshuatree
26-07-2017, 09:38 AM
Wow how proud you upstanding national party property renters must be of your deputy PM; the one who knows exactly how tough poverty is and trying to survive who then went on to shaft the very people she was like and who arguably has got something to answer for ; dense smoke rising.Bill better watch out he will be dragged down too ; although he's pretty good at tripping himself up. Rise up NZ you can do a lot better!

craic
26-07-2017, 09:41 AM
Indeed, that was a typo. I know how to spell that one. Whoops.

I notice no-one seems to be commenting on the actual contents of the post. Could it be that National are just now being further exposed as an arrogant, lying, druggy and dozy bunch of MPs, who have no intention (or ability) to lead the rest of NZ to a brighter future?

That is in keeping with your usual inability to deal with fact and separate it from fiction - and on of the reasons your party is heading for oblivion. It's getting to the stage where even Winston Peters won't touch you with a bargepole, particularly if the Greens are still involved.

BlackPeter
26-07-2017, 09:43 AM
Indeed, that was a typo. I know how to spell that one. Whoops.

I notice no-one seems to be commenting on the actual contents of the post. Could it be that National are just now being further exposed as an arrogant, lying, druggy and dozy bunch of MPs, who have no intention (or ability) to lead the rest of NZ to a brighter future?

Look EZ, why should anybody add oxygen to your baseless smear, if you are not even man enough to clearly state what you think she did wrong.

Man up - and if you are right, there is nothing you have to fear. If you are not man enough to do that, than at least go to the police and ask them to investigate. Afraid they charge you for wasting of police time?

What you are doing is just trying to stir and to smear and hoping some of the mud you are throwing might stick. Well, I hope it does stick at the throwers hands - less than 20% would be an appropriate result for a bunch of cowardly smearers. Labour is clearly not the party to go ...

Joshuatree
26-07-2017, 09:44 AM
Silence is golden and duct tape is silver. Blow whistle blow.

fungus pudding
26-07-2017, 10:59 AM
That is in keeping with your usual inability to deal with fact and separate it from fiction - and on of the reasons your party is heading for oblivion. It's getting to the stage where even Winston Peters won't touch you with a bargepole, particularly if the Greens are still involved.

Winston will be in like a robber's dog if he can sniff prime ministership for himself.

dobby41
26-07-2017, 11:22 AM
duct tape is silver.

Mine is black.
Not at all sure what all that is supposed to mean.

Bjauck
26-07-2017, 01:52 PM
Silence is golden and duct tape is silver. Blow whistle blow. I saw it called duck tape in shop somewhere South of Bombay.

fungus pudding
26-07-2017, 02:00 PM
I saw it called duck tape in shop somewhere South of Bombay.
Yep. Works on ducks too.

dobby41
26-07-2017, 02:03 PM
I saw it called duck tape in shop somewhere South of Bombay.

The 1st name for Duct Tape was Duck (brand name) so is often referred to as Duck Tape.

craic
26-07-2017, 02:19 PM
See Turia is being investigated and demanding an amnesty for any other fraudsters who come forward. Insisting on wearing the mantel of the victim.

dobby41
26-07-2017, 02:22 PM
See Turia is being investigated and demanding an amnesty for any other fraudsters who come forward. Insisting on wearing the mantel of the victim.

If you start allowing degrees of dishonesty where do you stop?
Politicians need to be held to a higher level than Joe public.

craic
26-07-2017, 02:31 PM
The 1st name for Duct Tape was Duck (brand name) so is often referred to as Duck Tape.

It was originally duct tape for use on ducts but too often if it was exposed to bright sunlight, it quacked, and the name was changed, or so my dog tells me she is a Labrador retriever and should know.

Brovendell
26-07-2017, 04:06 PM
It's a laugh a minute on this thread.:t_up:

Joshuatree
26-07-2017, 05:24 PM
If you start allowing degrees of dishonesty where do you stop?
Polititions need to be held to a higher level than Joe public.

Agree; this national govt has been corrupted over their terms in office; a human failing unfortunately.Rotten from the very top down. Anything to stay in power; stuff the people; try and make them apathetic so that the incumbents can keep the power.
Time for some honest decent governing ; where the people come first; we can be assured of that for the next couple of terms anyway.

elZorro
26-07-2017, 05:47 PM
Agree; this national govt has been corrupted over their terms in office; a human failing unfortunately.Rotten from the very top down. Anything to stay in power; stuff the people; try and make them apathetic so that the incumbents can keep the power.
Time for some honest decent governing ; where the people come first; we can be assured of that for the next couple of terms anyway.


I quite agree with that, Joshuatree. I can imagine that a Labour-Green-NZF coalition would keep the House on the straight and narrow. Maybe we'll also get some decent policies enacted, and start to see some progress. I can't wait. (https://thestandard.org.nz/lets-get-rid-of-these-clowns/)

National has been saying how well they are growing the economy, so how is it that a firm which has been around for nearly 150 years in Thames, employed 100 people (has been bigger) has just been liquidated today? All hundred staff at A&G Price, a proud engineering and foundry firm, have been sacked on the spot today.

http://103.14.3.1/audio/player?audio_id=201852499

I'll wait for FP to say how this firm is part of the old economy, but it's really a domino effect from other firms that have relocated overseas, and taken their foundry outwork with them. We have to hold onto anything that we're doing in the regions, don't let it go offshore. Those are our future jobs and training options for the next generations.

Baa_Baa
26-07-2017, 05:52 PM
See Turia is being investigated and demanding an amnesty for any other fraudsters who come forward. Insisting on wearing the mantel of the victim.

And with full disclosure, no legal advice and no idea what this could mean for her future in opposition and politics, talk about naive. Now let me think, what are the precedents for politicians who have been found out for FRAUD. Hmmm. Bennett next if this mini saga plays out the way it should. Else there is no justice and we should all climb on the benefit fraud band wagon to supplement our future prosperity. What a rort, makes me sick as a tax payer.
🤢

elZorro
26-07-2017, 06:10 PM
And with full disclosure, no legal advice and no idea what this could mean for her future in opposition and politics, talk about naive. Now let me think, what are the precedents for politicians who have been found out for FRAUD. Hmmm. Bennett next if this mini saga plays out the way it should. Else there is no justice and we should all climb on the benefit fraud band wagon to supplement our future prosperity. What a rort, makes me sick as a tax payer.


Metiria has said that the extra amount she received each week from one extra flatmate was between $20 and $50. This is not a giant fraud by any means, and surely there are plenty of beneficiaries who do cleaning work for that sort of money, under the table. She'll happily pay that money back to clear the slate (once they figure out what that might be), and that should be the end of it, since she is outside the statute of limitations and couldn't be called into court over it. She volunteered the information.

Paula Bennett might have quite a lot more going on, and just the hit to her reputation has to be tough for the National Party, leading up to the elections. As I say, there are other National MPs who should be looking over their shoulders.

fungus pudding
26-07-2017, 06:14 PM
I quite agree with that, Joshuatree. I can imagine that a Labour-Green-NZF coalition would keep the House on the straight and narrow. Maybe we'll also get some decent policies enacted, and start to see some progress. I can't wait.

National has been saying how well they are growing the economy, so how is it that a firm which has been around for nearly 150 years in Thames, employed 100 people (has been bigger) has just been liquidated today? All hundred staff at A&G Price, a proud engineering and foundry firm, have been sacked on the spot today.

http://103.14.3.1/audio/player?audio_id=201852499

I'll wait for FP to say how this firm is part of the old economy,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not going to say that. I don't know the first thing about this firm. Did they manufacture horse-shoes or something? What I do know is that since trading began, businesses have come and gone. Businesses are not immune to failure simply because they are long established. Economies renew and refresh so various commercial activities die. I suppose you wept when all the old typing pools disappeared. You must have peed blood when they stopped delivering telegrams. One thing we all know is that there has never before been as many businesses in NZ as there are today.

iceman
26-07-2017, 06:31 PM
National is the first choice for Winston. I was talking to two National Party members in Dunedin yesterday who were handing out promotional material. I raised the issue of Winston sharing Prime Minister position with Bill English. One was horrified at the prospect and could scarcely believe it possible, The other was more realistic and conceded that this has happened in other proportional systems and there is no legal/constitutional impediment

Yes Sgt P there is definitely no constitutional impediment to a shared Prime Ministership such as 2 people with 18 months each or a Leader of a smaller party being PM. However, I can not imagine National doing such a deal with Winston. Much more likely he could get full PM-ship through a deal with Labour-Green, but I still do not believe Winston will go into a coalition with the Greens at the table in senior positions. He knows they have nowhere to go so I'm sure he'd prefer a minority Government with Labour and the Greens on the cross benches. Would the Greens ever be a reliable "partner" in such an arrangement though ? They are really silly by not placing themselves differently on the political spectrum to give them a chance to work with both National and Labour. They would possibly be able to extract a lot of leeway for certain pet policies from National and be influential in the areas where they have most interest. In a Lbr-Gr-NZF deal they would be on the sidelines with little influence.

The question is whether NZF may possibly shoot themselves in the foot with their demands from the 2 egomaniacs in charge (Peters and Jones). I suspect the " baubles of office" will be all they concern themselves with.

dobby41
27-07-2017, 07:11 AM
Metiria has said that the extra amount she received each week from one extra flatmate was between $20 and $50. This is not a giant fraud by any means,

Ah - so a little fraud is OK, just not a big one?
Where do you draw the line? Is there some guideline that I can read?
Paying it back isn't the point - it wasn't a loan!

We should expect more from our politicians!!!

elZorro
27-07-2017, 07:43 AM
Ah - so a little fraud is OK, just not a big one?
Where do you draw the line? Is there some guideline that I can read?
Paying it back isn't the point - it wasn't a loan!

We should expect more from our politicians!!!

Compared to what I have heard about some politicians, this is not a massive thing. She wasn't a politician when this was happening. You could argue that any business person who (for example) recodes a private cost as a business cost, is also ripping off the taxpayer. Or take it a step further, those on the rental/lease property rung who pay no capital gain taxes, because they can carefully arrange their buying and selling, or simply land bank and hold long term. Now that's legal, but is it immoral?

Metiria has her heart in the right place, she's trying to bring positive changes in NZ. I'm not so sure about Paula Bennett.

dobby41
27-07-2017, 08:15 AM
Compared to what I have heard about some politicians, this is not a massive thing. She wasn't a politician when this was happening. You could argue that any business person who (for example) recodes a private cost as a business cost, is also ripping off the taxpayer. Or take it a step further, those on the rental/lease property rung who pay no capital gain taxes, because they can carefully arrange their buying and selling, or simply land bank and hold long term. Now that's legal, but is it immoral?

Metiria has her heart in the right place, she's trying to bring positive changes in NZ. I'm not so sure about Paula Bennett.

Disagree entirely.
People who invest in property don't pay CGT because there isn't one - simple as that. Same as Gareth Morgan didn't pay CGT on his profit from Trademe.
Morals don't come into it, and shouldn't as they vary too much (what someone sees as immoral someone else sees as a bit of fun (temperance league anyone)).

Her heart may be in the right place but with our money.
Let's make it OK to shack up with the boyfriend (but not over 3 years because then it would be a defacto) and suck off the state teat.
You don't want being on a benefit to become a valid lifestyle choice (more so than it is now).

fungus pudding
27-07-2017, 08:25 AM
The question is whether NZF may possibly shoot themselves in the foot with their demands from the 2 egomaniacs in charge (Peters and Jones). I suspect the " baubles of office" will be all they concern themselves with.

But it's Peters and Ron Marks at the helm. Marks is probably a bit more sensible than the pompous Shane Jones.

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 08:25 AM
Lets face it many folks stuck in poverty for many reasons (and they're not bludgers as many seem to label) have had to find ways to get little extra to survive; its common knowledge unless you live on top of candy floss pedestals and have a superiority"teat" complex.

NZ has been confirmed as part of the Global slave trade by the way. half the orchards in the B O P don't have the documentation to verify workers are being paid a min wage. Under nationals watch.

Rise up Nz we can do better than this.

BlackPeter
27-07-2017, 08:26 AM
Compared to what I have heard about some politicians, this is not a massive thing. She wasn't a politician when this was happening. You could argue that any business person who (for example) recodes a private cost as a business cost, is also ripping off the taxpayer. Or take it a step further, those on the rental/lease property rung who pay no capital gain taxes, because they can carefully arrange their buying and selling, or simply land bank and hold long term. Now that's legal, but is it immoral?

Metiria has her heart in the right place, she's trying to bring positive changes in NZ. I'm not so sure about Paula Bennett.

Interesting - so a left wing politician committing fraud is ok in your little left wing world? Ah - and smearing innocent (unless proven guilty) centre right politicians is ok as well?

EZ - you certainly left the morale high ground a long time ago. Whom do you intend to convince with this twisted and one-eyed ethics?

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 08:28 AM
BP you've described yourself perfectly....
As you make your bed so you lie in it......

BlackPeter
27-07-2017, 08:37 AM
Lets face it many folks stuck in poverty for many reasons (and they're not bludgers as many seem to label) have had to find ways to get little extra to survive; its common knowledge unless you live on top of candy floss pedestals and have a superiority"teat" complex.

NZ has been confirmed as part of the Global slave trade by the way. half the orchards in the B O P don't have the documentation to verify workers are being paid a min wage. Under nationals watch.

Rise up Nz we can do better than this.

You are right - heard yesterday a beneficiary on Radio NZ complaining that it is really hard to afford a drug addiction (synthetic cannabis) on a benefit. Of course do these people need to cheat and commit other crimes - I guess how can anybody not understand that?

We clearly need to help these people and rise their benefits so that they can afford to finance the lifestyle they desire ... all the money to drug addicts and fraudsters - Rise NZ!

Discl: just being cynical ... just in case our left wing friends might think I joined their cause ... :p

elZorro
27-07-2017, 08:38 AM
Interesting - so a left wing politician committing fraud is ok in your little left wing world? Ah - and smearing innocent (unless proven guilty) centre right politicians is ok as well?

EZ - you certainly left the morale high ground a long time ago. Whom do you intend to convince with this twisted and one-eyed ethics?

I'm not smearing Paula Bennett on historical matters, that is up to Ashley Farrell and other people who know her past. It's all sitting there on the web. I would like to see all current MPs made accountable though, for the actions they take while in office. And I'd like to see basically sound and intelligent people as MPs, Metiria is one of those. Paula is not.

dobby41
27-07-2017, 08:46 AM
I'm not smearing Paula Bennett on historical matters, that is up to Ashley Farrell and other people who know her past. It's all sitting there on the web. I would like to see all current MPs made accountable though, for the actions they take while in office. And I'd like to see basically sound and intelligent people as MPs, Metiria is one of those. Paula is not.

I'd like to see politicians with high moral and ethical fibre that I could trust.
Can't see it happening any time soon.

BlackPeter
27-07-2017, 09:04 AM
I'd like to see politicians with high moral and ethical fibre that I could trust.
...

I think we all would. And honestly - I think we don't know how lucky we are in NZ to have still reasonably trustworthy politicians (and I am referring here to all colours in parliament). Just imagine we had to live under absolute crooks and liars like Trump, Putin, Erdogan and many others. In world politics they certainly redefined the meaning of integrity ... but if I look into our parliament - I guess sure, nobody shares the political views of all of them and personally I think that many of them don't have the leadership and communication skills to do a good job as politician.

However - there is hardly a NZ MP I wouldn't trust enough to buy a used car from them or even ask them to look for a while after our grand children - even if they are called Little, Shaw or Peters. And sure, there are exceptions, but you would expect that in a sample of 120 random people.

I think we all have a tendency to be too negative and are too eager to throw dirt. Any chance we could focus more on discussing positive political alternatives instead of demonising and smearing the political opponent? We all would be better off for it.

We don't know how lucky we are ...

dobby41
27-07-2017, 09:39 AM
I think we all would. And honestly - I think we don't know how lucky we are in NZ to have still reasonably trustworthy politicians (and I am referring here to all colours in parliament).

...

We don't know how lucky we are ...

I agree - let's not accept less than we expect and let the standards slip little by little.

Turei made a mistake way back when, not huge and she has owned up.
More of an issue to me is her stance that it is OK to do so. She excuses this behaviour even now (seems if the same thing happened now she would make the same actions).
She is telling people that it is OK to break the law on this but where do you draw the line? When is it not OK?

fungus pudding
27-07-2017, 09:51 AM
I'm not smearing Paula Bennett on historical matters, that is up to Ashley Farrell and other people who know her past. It's all sitting there on the web. I would like to see all current MPs made accountable though, for the actions they take while in office. And I'd like to see basically sound and intelligent people as MPs, Metiria is one of those. Paula is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9O6pCYyelA

Baa_Baa
27-07-2017, 10:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9O6pCYyelA

Excellent rotflmao 😂

westerly
27-07-2017, 10:54 AM
And with full disclosure, no legal advice and no idea what this could mean for her future in opposition and politics, talk about naive. Now let me think, what are the precedents for politicians who have been found out for FRAUD. Hmmm. Bennett next if this mini saga plays out the way it should. Else there is no justice and we should all climb on the benefit fraud band wagon to supplement our future prosperity. What a rort, makes me sick as a tax payer.
🤢

Fair bit of hypocrisy on this subject.
http://www.victoria.ac.nz/news/2017/05/the-hypocrisy-of-nzs-approach-to-fraud

westerly

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 02:24 PM
You are right - heard yesterday a beneficiary on Radio NZ complaining that it is really hard to afford a drug addiction (synthetic cannabis) on a benefit. Of course do these people need to cheat and commit other crimes - I guess how can anybody not understand that?

We clearly need to help these people and rise their benefits so that they can afford to finance the lifestyle they desire ... all the money to drug addicts and fraudsters - Rise NZ!

Discl: just being cynical ... just in case our left wing friends might think I joined their cause ... :p

Like to see this transparency.You're being honest and chucking everyone in the same basket and oh you are such a superior role model; I'm guessing your pedestal is made of bubble bath. Conceited Plus;)

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 03:06 PM
Thanks westerly a good read; quite shocking the disparity, and greed being punished way less then poverty survival.

On 28 April, the headline “Husband and wife sentenced for one of NZ’s ‘highest ranking’ benefit frauds” ran with a report of one of New Zealand’s “very worst” cases of benefit fraud, in which a Nelson mother of four was sentenced to two years and five months in prison for defrauding the Ministry of Social Development of $244,768 over 12 years. The woman's husband was sentenced to nine months’ home detention for fraud of $84,915 over the same period. The judge in the case is quoted as reaching an outcome “that might be viewed as ‘overly generous’”. Repayment of $10,000 was ordered, at a rate of $40 per week.
Three days later, the same media website had the headline “Tax agent fraudster loses name suppression”. This case involved a Wellington tax agent given 10 months’ home detention and 120 hours’ community work for tax fraud of $768,538. The fraud had been ongoing since 2009. The agent’s financial position was described as “hopeless” and there was “no way she could pay reparation” despite individually benefitting $210,465 from the offending.
Let’s be clear about this: both crimes result in the same outcome for society, which is less money for other taxpayers. Whether the outcome is achieved by more money taken from the system or less money given to the system is a conceptual difference only. Both are deliberate. Both are fraud.

BlackPeter
27-07-2017, 04:14 PM
Like to see this transparency.You're being honest and chucking everyone in the same basket and oh you are such a superior role model; I'm guessing your pedestal is made of bubble bath. Conceited Plus;)

Relax ... you don't compute anymore ... :)

craic
27-07-2017, 04:35 PM
I await with great interest the latest opinion poll after the turia confession. I would be very surprised if the Greens don't take a hit. But of course they may collect a load of sympathisers from the dregs of the Labour vote.

westerly
27-07-2017, 05:31 PM
You are right - heard yesterday a beneficiary on Radio NZ complaining that it is really hard to afford a drug addiction (synthetic cannabis) on a benefit. Of course do these people need to cheat and commit other crimes - I guess how can anybody not understand that?

We clearly need to help these people and rise their benefits so that they can afford to finance the lifestyle they desire ... all the money to drug addicts and fraudsters - Rise NZ!

Discl: just being cynical ... just in case our left wing friends might think I joined their cause ... :p

Just to even things up. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/306926/welfare-fraud-targeted-more-than-tax-evasion.
It is a long way from where you are to even reach central. :)

westerly

iceman
27-07-2017, 05:59 PM
But it's Peters and Ron Marks at the helm. Marks is probably a bit more sensible than the pompous Shane Jones.

Not so sure FP. We don't hear anything at all from Ron Mark these days but I do agree he seems much more sensible. Jones did a deal with Winston to come into NZF and I am sure it wasn't to be a quiet backbencher.

iceman
27-07-2017, 06:05 PM
I agree - let's not accept less than we expect and let the standards slip little by little.

Turei made a mistake way back when, not huge and she has owned up.
More of an issue to me is her stance that it is OK to do so. She excuses this behaviour even now (seems if the same thing happened now she would make the same actions).
She is telling people that it is OK to break the law on this but where do you draw the line? When is it not OK?

A good post dobby41 and I agree with this entirely. The fraud was bad enough on its own but her combative attitude suggesting it is OK for beneficiaries to rort the system if they feel they need more, is shocking. She should resign.
I am very surprised to see EZ support and try to justify her actions

Sadly I think Turei and The Greens have done this in a calculated way and are trying to mobilise the far left anti establishment vote, like Jeremy Corbyn. Sad.

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 07:00 PM
Just to even things up. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/306926/welfare-fraud-targeted-more-than-tax-evasion.
It is a long way from where you are to even reach central. :)

westerly

Thanks westerly that is so sick. White collar fraudsters are treated like heros . Biased in extreme. Anyone struggling or down on their luck; stuck in poverty is pushed down deeper. And you national voters are the ones supporting this; jumping up and adding your weight for a good hanging,so to speak; keep you in your ivory Rort towers. How many of you are doing it all legally with your LAQC's etc.?? ANYTHING to stay there, yep.
Rise up NZ; you don't need to support this party; can do a lot better ,like a little equality for starters followed by honesty and integrity; long lost with national and its acolytes. Its time for a humanity change.

iceman
27-07-2017, 07:12 PM
JT didn't National change the rules for LAQCs in the 2010 budget to scrap the ability to attribute company losses to shareholders ? Seem to recall reading about it at the time but not sure of the detail.

elZorro
27-07-2017, 09:46 PM
An article about Paula.

http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/why-paula-bennett-is-trouble-for-the-national-party/

Paula trying to answer questions in the house, 27 July.

https://youtu.be/zlgTUoQEnmo

Joshuatree
27-07-2017, 09:57 PM
Hoop, time to change the title to "Why National Will Deservedly Lose ";)

Maybe they will have time to reshoot their billboard hoarding pics:confused:

elZorro
28-07-2017, 06:36 AM
Hoop, time to change the title to "Why National Will Deservedly Lose ";)

Maybe they will have time to reshoot their billboard hording pics:confused:

Here's another shocker from the National Govt, their attitude to freight in South Auckland. Instead of spending a piddly $65mill to have a third rail line completed for freight in a congested corridor, which also allows more frequent passenger rail for Aucklanders, they had KiwiRail redact the decision document. The govt preference is for more truck freight in Auckland, the worst option in the report. Now the full cost/benefit analysis is released after pressure on govt, and you can see what a poor decision it was. National is just not doing the job we put them in there to do.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/27-07-2017/finally-revealed-report-shows-rail-destroys-roading-for-auckland-freight/

I hear on the grapevine that sales of Kenworth trucks have been going through the roof for the last few years.

dobby41
28-07-2017, 07:33 AM
JT didn't National change the rules for LAQCs in the 2010 budget to scrap the ability to attribute company losses to shareholders ? Seem to recall reading about it at the time but not sure of the detail.

Yes they did.
LAQCs were effectively replaced by LTC (Look Through Company) which are similar but not the same.

BlackPeter
28-07-2017, 07:41 AM
An article about Paula.

http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/why-paula-bennett-is-trouble-for-the-national-party/

Paula trying to answer questions in the house, 27 July.

https://youtu.be/zlgTUoQEnmo

Good thing is - with the current capable government you have plenty of alternatives. If you feel that you don't like one of Nationals politicians, than just go for ACT :t_up:. David Seymour is clearly punching above his weight and just imagine how much greater ACTs useful contribution could be if it wouldn't be just him alone from ACT in parliament. Other options are the Maori party or even United; Lots of capable people who did prove that they are able to successfully run a government. Really - why would anybody vote for the opposition which seems to mainly indulge in smear campaigns if I measure tham at your posts.

BTW - it was ACT which kept Winston the last 3 times out of government. This alone makes them invaluable. I guess Winston is such a capable opposition politician (possibly the only capable opposition politician NZ currently has) that NZ can't afford to lose him to government. While in government Winston is immediately losing his focus and only indulging in playing with his baubles of power. Don't let's do that again!

fungus pudding
28-07-2017, 07:51 AM
An article about Paula.

http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/why-paula-bennett-is-trouble-for-the-national-party/

Paula trying to answer questions in the house, 27 July.

https://youtu.be/zlgTUoQEnmo

Watch your new obsession eZ. It will add to the paranoia. Find a hobby.

hardt
28-07-2017, 08:02 AM
Here's another shocker from the National Govt, their attitude to freight in South Auckland. Instead of spending a piddly $65mill to have a third rail line completed for freight in a congested corridor, which also allows more frequent passenger rail for Aucklanders, they had KiwiRail redact the decision document. The govt preference is for more truck freight in Auckland, the worst option in the report. Now the full cost/benefit analysis is released after pressure on govt, and you can see what a poor decision it was. National is just not doing the job we put them in there to do.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/27-07-2017/finally-revealed-report-shows-rail-destroys-roading-for-auckland-freight/

I hear on the grapevine that sales of Kenworth trucks have been going through the roof for the last few years.

I love how journalists willingly or otherwise refrain from researching the flipside of their argument because of how "right" they are, to think that someone could think differently about something is almost inconceivable, they offer an extremely biased argument that has very little benefit to the debate at hand.

dobby41
28-07-2017, 08:44 AM
I love how journalists willingly or otherwise refrain from researching the flipside of their argument because of how "right" they are, to think that someone could think differently about something is almost inconceivable, they offer an extremely biased argument that has very little benefit to the debate at hand.

You have to admit that more trucks rather than more rail seems counter-productive.

Joshuatree
28-07-2017, 08:55 AM
This govt is not capable at all; it is an unfolding disaster, they have fiddled and created an unholy mess and we have to have a change. John Key jumped a sinking ship knowing this.

BlackPeter
28-07-2017, 09:15 AM
Yes its so pathetic. Goalposts will have to be shifted as bull has suggested and the returns may be a little less in future. The staff do such an amazing job(generally; i do see some pretending to care though) and get shafted for it; not valued at all,an offensive rort. At least they aren't being paid peanuts anymore (no credit to SUM)so hopefully the care will be even better now. So yes Roger sorry to rain on your sweet smelling money parade; but less returns and more humanity is a good balance.


They wont have a choice imo w69,the Labour govt will though.



This govt is not capable at all; it is an unfolding disaster, they have fiddled and created an unholy mess and we have to have a change. John Key jumped a sinking ship knowing this.

Well, JT - looks like we have to agree to disagree on your assessment of the National led government. You clearly stand for a small splitter group, but hey - everybody is entitled to their opinion. However good to hear from you (on the SUM thread) that Labour is going to rain in business, going to reduce the profits and by that worsening the housing crisis. Always good to hear a Labour supporter speaking his mind. This might help some of us to tick in September the right box (pun intended).

Thanks for your frank comments and your help ... :p

dobby41
28-07-2017, 09:29 AM
Labour is going to rain in business,

How do you 'rain' in business?
Is that like pissing in the wind?

Or do you mean rein?

BlackPeter
28-07-2017, 09:49 AM
How dpo you 'rain' in business?
Is that like pissing in the wind?

Or do you mean rein?

I just cited JT (check the quotes above) - you need to ask him what he exactly meant. However - it didn't sound good (if you are an investor ...) ;) - I took that as "raining on someones parade ...";

craic
28-07-2017, 09:51 AM
I think Andrew Little has more chance of being registered as a jockey than he has of becoming Prime Minister. After months of negatives against the current government he has moved on to the bulk funding mentality - x number of millions of dollars for this and x numbers of millions of dollars for that and so on with a silly number for anything that anyone brings up. There is so little creativity in any of it that it appears in the "my dad can beat your dad" class.
Now he has the problem of the Greens co-leader who appears to have thrown a whole boxful of spanners in the works. I listen to talkback during the night for no better reason than I am an insomniac but I am getting thoroughly bored With the Turia saga. Everybody wants their say and their say is just a repetition of the last caller. There is the odd support caller but the odds are ten to one against her. Now this must have a serious effect on the Green vote and I await the next poll with interest. It could also affect the Labour figures if some of their beneficiaries see her as a warrior for their cause and wouldn't that be ironic.
I would be very interested to know where there are good odds on the election outcome. I understand that the TAB are exclude for obvious reasons.

Joshuatree
28-07-2017, 11:05 AM
If you think late night talkback is a good indicator of popular opinion i'd stick to the TAB and bet on Hoskings ,the rort national stooge hog in the next greasy pig race with a track that is firm/soft/easy/underwater.:t_up:

winner69
28-07-2017, 11:26 AM
If you think late night talkback is a good indicator of popular opinion i'd stick to the TAB and bet on Hoskings ,the rort national stooge hog in the next greasy pig race with a track that is firm/soft/easy/underwater.:t_up:

Trade Me message boards are a good indicator of popular opinion

Sgt Pepper
28-07-2017, 02:49 PM
I think Andrew Little has more chance of being registered as a jockey than he has of becoming Prime Minister. After months of negatives against the current government he has moved on to the bulk funding mentality - x number of millions of dollars for this and x numbers of millions of dollars for that and so on with a silly number for anything that anyone brings up. There is so little creativity in any of it that it appears in the "my dad can beat your dad" class.
Now he has the problem of the Greens co-leader who appears to have thrown a whole boxful of spanners in the works. I listen to talkback during the night for no better reason than I am an insomniac but I am getting thoroughly bored With the Turia saga. Everybody wants their say and their say is just a repetition of the last caller. There is the odd support caller but the odds are ten to one against her. Now this must have a serious effect on the Green vote and I await the next poll with interest. It could also affect the Labour figures if some of their beneficiaries see her as a warrior for their cause and wouldn't that be ironic.
I would be very interested to know where there are good odds on the election outcome. I understand that the TAB are exclude for obvious reasons.

I think the probability of Bill English being Prime Minister for 3 years aren't great either,

Joshuatree
28-07-2017, 04:07 PM
Paula Bennett is his smoking gun and Bill is a damp squib with credibility issues that like an escaping dream will forever elude him now; what a combo to have confidence in!!. Id rather have the ordinary honest guy from next door who may not have much charisma and has sideburns; but i trust him .

BlackPeter
28-07-2017, 05:40 PM
LOL - just read this statement from Gareth Morgan. Not that he would be my personal favourite, but he makes some really interesting comments re Winston:


As we have mentioned before the most worrying party from an environmental and progressive policy perspective at this election is not National, it is NZ First. At the moment either prospective government looks to be relying on Winstonís support to govern. So far his plan to return us to the 1970s includes removing all policies that would improve water quality and climate, consigning our native birds to extinction and getting rid of the Youth Justice system. Letís be clear, for progressive voters, the major issue this election isnít #ChangeTheGovt it is #AnyoneButWinston.1 Right now the polls suggest the Greens are relying on working with Winston, which would be a total own goal.

http://www.top.org.nz/top_vs_the_greens?utm_campaign=momentum&utm_medium=email&utm_source=garethmorgan

Just wondering how NZF / Greenies and Labour really could work together without any common basis (other than hating National ....)?

Gareth could be a real alternative for Greenies who don't care about the economy (as they do;)). At least he wants to push policies instead of ideologies - i.e. he might even achieve something rather than the Green Party who indulge for ideological reasons in being the "eternal opposition"?

iceman
28-07-2017, 05:55 PM
I think Andrew Little has more chance of being registered as a jockey than he has of becoming Prime Minister. After months of negatives against the current government he has moved on to the bulk funding mentality - x number of millions of dollars for this and x numbers of millions of dollars for that and so on with a silly number for anything that anyone brings up. There is so little creativity in any of it that it appears in the "my dad can beat your dad" class.
Now he has the problem of the Greens co-leader who appears to have thrown a whole boxful of spanners in the works. I listen to talkback during the night for no better reason than I am an insomniac but I am getting thoroughly bored With the Turia saga. Everybody wants their say and their say is just a repetition of the last caller. There is the odd support caller but the odds are ten to one against her. Now this must have a serious effect on the Green vote and I await the next poll with interest. It could also affect the Labour figures if some of their beneficiaries see her as a warrior for their cause and wouldn't that be ironic.
I would be very interested to know where there are good odds on the election outcome. I understand that the TAB are exclude for obvious reasons.

I don't think The Greens will lose from her coming out as a fraudster. They may indeed get more fringe voters that otherwise would not have voted or voted for the cannabis party. I suspect many (mind you not that many left) moderate and traditional Labour supporters will get scared and run over to Winston. Labour will be the losers from Turei's calculated call is my guess

westerly
28-07-2017, 06:01 PM
Good thing is - with the current capable government you have plenty of alternatives. If you feel that you don't like one of Nationals politicians, than just go for ACT :t_up:. David Seymour is clearly punching above his weight and just imagine how much greater ACTs useful contribution could be if it wouldn't be just him alone from ACT in parliament. Other options are the Maori party or even United; Lots of capable people who did prove that they are able to successfully run a government. Really - why would anybody vote for the opposition which seems to mainly indulge in smear campaigns if I measure tham at your posts.

BTW - it was ACT which kept Winston the last 3 times out of government. This alone makes them invaluable. I guess Winston is such a capable opposition politician (possibly the only capable opposition politician NZ currently has) that NZ can't afford to lose him to government. While in government Winston is immediately losing his focus and only indulging in playing with his baubles of power. Don't let's do that again!


If ever there was a small splitter (splinter?) group it would be ACT
A one man party, funded by a few wealthy neo liberalists, and propped up by a National party keen to quieten their extreme right faction.

westerly

RGR367
28-07-2017, 08:26 PM
If ever there was a small splitter (splinter?) group it would be ACT
A one man party, funded by a few wealthy neo liberalists, and propped up by a National party keen to quieten their extreme right faction.

westerly

Be it may but ACT has an elected MP unlike the Greens. And also unbelievable that Andrew Little is the main opposition leader that cannot even win an electorate seat. MMP is really bad when you're not with the governing faction.

Major von Tempsky
29-07-2017, 03:32 PM
So the criminal voters will switch from Labour to Green?

craic
29-07-2017, 03:56 PM
Probably. the next poll published may shock the left more than they think. WP may gain a bit.

BlackPeter
29-07-2017, 04:11 PM
If ever there was a small splitter (splinter?) group it would be ACT
A one man party, funded by a few wealthy neo liberalists, and propped up by a National party keen to quieten their extreme right faction.

westerly

... I give you the splinter ;) - and you may keep it :p, but otherwise it appears you are not very well informed?

ACT comes from the "Association of Consumers and Taxpayers", founded in 1993 by Roger Douglas and Derek Quigley and formed in 1994 into a political party. They represent every day hard working New Zealanders, not just beneficiaries and unionists like Labour does. ACT won between 1996 and 2002 every time between 7 and 9 seats in parliament. In 2008 again 5 seats. Not such a small party - is it?

And yes, they lost for the 2011 elections their way and got hijacked by some outworn National politicians (John Banks and Don Brasch). Allowing them to take over and kick Rodney Hide out was one of the worst mistakes ACT ever made.

ACT completely refreshed their candidates and top brass for the 2014 elections - and they are again a credible liberal party. Sure, they managed to get in the last election only one candidate into parliament (David Seymour), but they very well might come back this time around - they did the trick before (2008).

I suspect from where you stand everything is "extreme-right", but calling them this way is like calling Labour and the Greenies communist. Both is wrong and shows just how bad informed a person using these labels is. Maybe you should use arguments instead of cheap (and wrong) labels.

Joshuatree
30-07-2017, 10:29 AM
Tha national govt have stuffed up so many things and now NZ is officially one of the slave trade countries. Immigrants come here get their passports held by an "employment supervisor" and work for a pittance in the harvesting and pruning industry, fruit, seafood, farming/ dairying ; in the restaurant trade etc. Half the kiwifruit orchards in the BOP as i previously mentioned. Also they get abused in some cases sexually and physically!. all under nationals watch. just one of many things that have deteriorated and has been tacitly supported by this national govt. boy of boy things have to change; this govt has failed all new zealanders.

BlackPeter
30-07-2017, 10:53 AM
Tha national govt have stuffed up so many things and now NZ is officially one of the slave trade countries. Immigrants come here get their passports held by an "employment supervisor" and work for a pittance in the harvesting and pruning industry, fruit, seafood, farming/ dairying ; in the restaurant trade etc. Half the kiwifruit orchards in the BOP as i previously mentioned. Also they get abused in some cases sexually and physically!. all under nationals watch. just one of many things that have deteriorated and has been tacitly supported by this national govt. boy of boy things have to change; this govt has failed all new zealanders.

Unfortunately it was Labour who started and fostered this practise by sending a fraudster and exploiter of slave labour to parliament. Did you forget already about Labour MP Taito Phillip Field? Ah - and just remember me about the most recent attempt of Labour to employ slave labour to support their election campaign :p? People's memories are not that short ....

Look - is throwing dirt towards the government of the day really your only election strategy? Particularly stupid to throw stones while sitting in a glass house, but even if this would not be the case ...

Do you people have really nothing positive to say? Any good and realistic proposal how to improve the lot of New Zealanders we could discuss?

No wonder the standards are dropping by the day and the left is far behind in the polls ...

Joshuatree
30-07-2017, 11:14 AM
Misinformation . Taito got dealt to ; problem gone. labour had volunteers over. Most were very happy with their arrangements.A couple couldn't cope with marae style and went back to mummy. . I mean a photo of one cupboard off its hinges and i shower head not working and someone just not mature enough to cope.

New Zealanders can do a lot better but boy is not going to be an easy fix for labour; good luck to them dealing with this hospital pass mess national have left us with . john key knew what was coming; he bailed.

fungus pudding
30-07-2017, 12:10 PM
Misinformation . Taito got dealt to ;



Philip Field is his name. Not Taito; that's a Samoan title which he doesn't deserve. He got dealt to in the end, but only after Helen Clark was pushed to the stage where she had no choice.

craic
30-07-2017, 12:26 PM
The silence is deafening from all sides. I can understand the Greens shutting up and hoping that something else will distract the media. I can understand Labour being quiet for a while after their main man promised ultra millions for every perceived problem and Winston screaming around looking any public issue that he can own. National are probably leaving well enough alone at present. By all international standards we are doing well and better than most. Even the great cow disaster has been solved, much to the chagrin of the Greens now that it has been established that a small quantity of dried seaweed reduces bovine methane production by as much as 99%.

GTM 3442
30-07-2017, 12:43 PM
? . . . Even the great cow disaster has been solved, much to the chagrin of the Greens now that it has been established that a small quantity of dried seaweed reduces bovine methane production by as much as 99%.

That sounds great! Can you post us a link? I'd like to know more, but I'm having trouble finding sources.

Thanks

fungus pudding
30-07-2017, 12:47 PM
That sounds great! Can you post us a link? I'd like to know more, but I'm having trouble finding sources.

Thanks

Hop down to the nearest beach. Grab a handful and try it. I can't find a link either, so let us know how you get on.

craic
30-07-2017, 02:08 PM
The Irish Times had a major article on it about a week ago. The research was done mainly in Canada and Ireland and I think Australia was mentioned.
I just put Bovinemethane and seaweed into the bit on the bottom of windows ten and there were many articles. Cow cockies can now smoke in the milking shed without getting their heads blown off.

fungus pudding
30-07-2017, 02:25 PM
The Irish Times had a major article on it about a week ago. The research was done mainly in Canada and Ireland and I think Australia was mentioned.
I just put Bovinemethane and seaweed into the bit on the bottom of windows ten and there were many articles. Cow cockies can now smoke in the milking shed without getting their heads blown off.

There are plenty of articles if you search methane seaweed. Problem is the theory heads rapidly downhill when you read them.

BlackPeter
30-07-2017, 02:30 PM
That sounds great! Can you post us a link? I'd like to know more, but I'm having trouble finding sources.

Thanks

Have a start here ... the paper provides as well plenty of additional literature sources:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4092917/

Have fun :D.

artemis
30-07-2017, 02:34 PM
That sounds great! Can you post us a link? I'd like to know more, but I'm having trouble finding sources. Thanks

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/environmental-concerns-cows-eating-seaweed/7946630

But wait, there's more .....

fungus pudding
30-07-2017, 05:36 PM
Agree with your sentiment - and hey, David Seymour is doing an outstanding job and clearly punched above his weight. Hard to believe ACT has at this stage only one MP. They would deserve to get this time around some more MP's ... as well to keep National honest.

http://act.org.nz/david-seymour/

And if Act can get around 3%, (which is achievable) then National should be able to send Winston packing. That would be the best possible result.

winner69
30-07-2017, 06:11 PM
Another rogue poll.....but Andrew thought about quitting. Curtains for him / them now I reckon.

Heard some comments from Turei's supporters along the lines of why pick on Metiria because afterall homosexuality was illegal years ago - trying to get my head around the logic of that

craic
30-07-2017, 06:20 PM
This is worth $1,000 wager for me. I wager that amount that the new government will be a National led government.

Blackrose
30-07-2017, 07:30 PM
I'm loving the feisty nature of this thread. Just under 2 months before "The Nation Decides!" we have whinging about sketchy benefit fraud in the '90s and Paula Bennett doing a Jenny Shipley act.

It's a dull lead up I must say. I'm seeing lots of posters around Palmy - of blue and red teams. Bill English looks like a dullard on them.

Even worse, Glassons Jackie E, Max and the rest of fashion shops are pushing animal print anything. So all your office admins will be wearing cougar inspired spots and leopard prints and cheetah spots like it was 1980's West Auckland all over again. I even saw a black jacket with leather tassels hanging off it. DEPRESSING.

Naturally no one gives a rat's behind about the economy anymore do they? Even the cheery "House P0rn" inspired real estate pages are looking rather slim these days. "Oh it's winter/elections" is a very thin excuse for the boys and girls in the blue blazers these days.

Look by the time the first few lambs have been pushed out in to the sunshine, there had better be a decent conversation about sustainable job growth and infrastructure projects and what to do about housing pronto by the blue team or they will be LUNCH. (My $0.02)

craic
30-07-2017, 09:38 PM
Then why don't you make yourself some money and take my bet? The lambs are out around here already.

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 08:01 AM
Rare praise for Andrew Little. How refreshing to hear a political leader face the facts. His comments on their poor poll ratings were honest, and such a change from the usual waffle, e.g. 'it's not what our own polling shows' or the oft heard 'the only poll that counts is the one on election day'; 'blah blah, rubbish rubbish etc', so good on you Andrew.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 08:21 AM
Yes I'm craving honesty and authenticity and i can see it here with Little. It really gives me hope that good things can be done and attempts to hopefully fix the problems national have created and fostered and supported. They have picked all the low hanging fruit; taken credit for our booming export trade when there is no credit due; allowed the slave trade immigration to happen; made it impossible for many people of many vocations to live comfortably in cities esp Auckland. Eg a schoolteacher has to commute for hours or live at home or cram into poor quality flats with many others just to survive let alone get ahead let alone be a great inspiring teacher to kids.
National has created more struggle. And our environment gets less and less funding. Maggie Barry when out to a remote island where endangered penguins and other birds nest and breed, for a photo op asked where the penguins were "Where are they" as if they should pop up to make the photo. Of course they were out at sea catching fish to bring to their babies in their burrows at dusk.
Nick Smith well everyone smiles or laughs at this supremo evasive spinner. I don't ,i feel despair for this country. They are here solely to protect their position in power, john Key taught them well. labour and others will really be there to fix, improve and restore things but don't expect a miracle; its not going to be easy or instant to repair.

BlackPeter
31-07-2017, 08:32 AM
Rare praise for Andrew Little. How refreshing to hear a political leader face the facts. His comments on their poor poll ratings were honest, and such a change from the usual waffle, e.g. 'it's not what our own polling shows' or the oft heard 'the only poll that counts is the one on election day'; 'blah blah, rubbish rubbish etc', so good on you Andrew.

Fair enough - and I don't think we can blame Andrew anyway that they made him leader. He might be a nice bloke, just a bit uninspiring and boring, without ideas to run with and certainly without the enthusiasm to run. He is clearly no leadership material. The fault lies with a party which picks one unsuitable leadership candidate after the other ... and if they happen to accidentally pick a good one they kick him out before he can run an election campaign (David Shearer).

The real question would be - what is wrong with Labour? But than - aren't it the unions responsible for picking these disastrous candidates on Labours behalf? Maybe this is the real issue.

Oops - shouldn't have said that ... might awake our left leaning friends from their beauty slumber while their party crashes ... but than - ins't this what friends are for? If they would have listened to us they would have kept Shearer in the leadership seat and would have had a good chance to run already for the last three years the government. Maybe the problem is that neither Labour nor Green really want to take responsibility - they like to stay in opposition and fight with all they have to stay in the cushy opposition seats.

Sad - we might need a new party to form an effective opposition in NZ.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 08:37 AM
The question really is ; what is right with national; they've created a monster; their leader has no credibility; many of their members same; look at whats not being done; not being fixed; integrity ; whats that? Honesty ,such a lonely word.

777
31-07-2017, 08:42 AM
The question really is ; what is right with national; they've created a monster; their leader has no credibility; many of their members same; look at whats not being done; not being fixed; integrity ; whats that? Honesty ,such a lonely word.

47% of the population do not agree that this is the case JT.

BlackPeter
31-07-2017, 08:43 AM
The question really is ; what is right with national; they've created a monster; their leader has no credibility; many of their members same; look at whats not being done; not being fixed; integrity ; whats that? Honesty ,such a lonely word.

JT, I think you are losing it. Pity - this is unlikely to help Labour or the Left either.

craic
31-07-2017, 08:50 AM
I suspect that The left will become "Whats Left" or "The Remnants" Party. the concept of Labour is out of date around the world.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 08:52 AM
I believe in those qualities shining through. I believe in confronting apathy, greed. I believe in change rather than passive "better the devil you know". I ask people to make a priority to put just a little time aside and focus on this country.To be brave and not be apathetic; you CAN make a difference, get out there and make your voice count for decency, honesty, the best human qualities not the worst. Don't get complacent just because our exports are in a good cycle; think of improving human conditions, caring compassion; removing some distress not compounding it .

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 09:19 AM
The question really is ; what is right with national; they've created a monster; their leader has no credibility; many of their members same; look at whats not being done; not being fixed; integrity ; whats that? Honesty ,such a lonely word.

English has plenty of credibility; he is highly regarded internationally. If you want more from your govt. go and live in Norway. Check the tax rates first.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 09:37 AM
I wish i could believe that; maybe he did earlier on in his political life but i truly believe he has been corrupted in his time in parliament ; john key was great role model there; as i said its human nature to lose sight of whats best for your country and whats best for Bill.

dobby41
31-07-2017, 09:53 AM
47% of the population do not agree that this is the case JT.

By the same token you culd say 53% do agree?

hardt
31-07-2017, 10:18 AM
The question really is ; what is right with national; they've created a monster; their leader has no credibility; many of their members same; look at whats not being done; not being fixed; integrity ; whats that? Honesty ,such a lonely word.

- The top personal tax rate was lowered from 39% to 38% and then 33%

- Increased the minimum wage from $12.00 per hour to $13.00 per hour in its first term, then $14.25 in its second term - worked for minimum wage in high school.

- Introduced the "mixed ownership model" plan, in which the Government reduce its share in GNE, MEL, MCY from 100% to 51% and AIR from 74% to 51%, and sell the remainder. MEL was a total gem!

Despite what you may believe, the rest of the world is envious of New Zealand's economical and social prospects moving forward, don't pretend that all of New Zealand's hardships are caused by this government, but fail to lay the same principle on this country's highly successful decade.

New Zealand will be among the fastest growing Aaa-rated economies in coming years. The government's robust fiscal position and prospects for it to strengthen provide ample room to pursue expansionary fiscal policy to buffer the economy against potential future shocks.
Robust population growth, strong Asian demand for New Zealand dairy, tourism and education and solid investment spending to support real GDP growth of around 3.0% in 2017 and 2018, broadly consistent with the government's projections. - Moody's

Worst thing National has done to us, the voters, since 2008 has been giving us an ever increasingly desperate Labour opposition that are yet to offer anything that the majority of New Zealanders want anything to do with... all they do is whinge and make noise, they are haemorrhaging supporters every other month because of it.

craic
31-07-2017, 10:45 AM
By the same token you culd say 53% do agree?

Not the case at all. If you remove those who didn't vote, National are the clear winners.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 11:37 AM
Yes National are responsible for 40,000 homeless; 24,000 in Auckland.Clear winners for sure.

craic
31-07-2017, 11:49 AM
Read John Keys interview with Aust media today. He tells exactly what happened to NZ housing. It makes a lot more sense than the mindless pronouncement by Little who seems to think anything he says will excite supporters as long as it has six noughts on the end. And ask the homeless why they insist on staying in Auckland when they might go elsewhere and get accommodation.

Major von Tempsky
31-07-2017, 12:16 PM
By the same token you culd say 53% do agree?

Clearly Dobby you haven't been listening/reading or you would have seen that adding in those willing to ally with National and all the rats and mice like the Conservatives you get to 50%. There's your answer.

And a further part of your answer is that NZF, 16% of the vote are willing to go into coalition with National and not with Greens.

Appealing to democracy simply confirms that Labour lose.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 12:26 PM
Read John Keys interview with Aust media today. He tells exactly what happened to NZ housing. It makes a lot more sense than the mindless pronouncement by Little who seems to think anything he says will excite supporters as long as it has six noughts on the end. And ask the homeless why they insist on staying in Auckland when they might go elsewhere and get accommodation.

Have you got link. key created the housing prob and fiddled not wanting to upset his base.

percy
31-07-2017, 03:18 PM
Is it true Labour can't change their leader, because they can't afford new billboards, as they are broke.?
One very valid reason for keeping the current leader ??.lol.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 03:23 PM
Little wants the best for his party and country; show me another altruistic leader like that. Bill is the opposite now unfortunately.

craic
31-07-2017, 03:25 PM
Have you got link. key created the housing prob and fiddled not wanting to upset his base.

the keyis NEWS HUB I have it on my opening page

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 03:39 PM
the keyis NEWS HUB I have it on my opening page

Put the poor man out of his misery. I think this is the url to the article you mean.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/07/sir-john-key-opens-up-on-ponytail-gate-in-candid-abc-interview.html

BlackPeter
31-07-2017, 03:39 PM
Little wants the best for his party and country; show me another altruistic leader like that. Bill is the opposite now unfortunately.

Oh dear ... I guess after the elections I'd say you are a sore loser, but 8 weeks before? Did you throw already the towel?

I am absolutely certain that nearly all of our politicians (of all colours) want what they see is "the best" for the country and their people. Just go into one of the candidate meetings and ask them. Sure, depending on the political colour might "best" look a bit differently, and for sure they have different views about how to get there.

Just running down a politician and question his ethics because you don't agree with his political views is cheap - and the only thing which is losing is your credibility. We don't have (yet?) political sc*mbags like Trump in our country - and we should be very glad about that. It is up to all of us - if we all start to question without reasons each others motives and ethics, than the only one who wins is the one who wants to destroy our system and our values.

So - if you have dirt on Bill English, than speak up. However - if (I presume) you have not - could we have a civilised political debate instead?

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 03:43 PM
John Key "They just stayed committed to what we were doing. They were just rusted on. They still are," he said, perhaps sticking to the cookware theme that had him labelled 'Teflon John' for his resilience in the polls.

Agree with that. And believe me teflon John was because of his slippery, nothings gonna stick to me teehee ; crosby/textor ,conniving talking all around the subject and not answering it honestly or at all. Bill does that now but he is not as good; Steven joyce is now the supremo there.

So what to do about you poor rusted on folks; going to take a lot more than CRC unfortunately; open up your bivalves and be receptive to whats really happening out there; sieve the truth from the chaff and hey presto you will find yourself free of your rusting submerged pile.

westerly
31-07-2017, 06:05 PM
Heard some comments from Turei's supporters along the lines of why pick on Metiria because afterall homosexuality was illegal years ago - trying to get my head around the logic of that

Parliament has apologised to those convicted of homosexual offences prior to the law being changed.
I don't think they have changed the law regarding benefit fraud yet.
However, if our pc MP's are going to apologise retropectively for convictions where the law has been
subsequently changed may I remind them I was fined 3 pound plus costs for drinking in a public bar when I was 20 years old.
It is about time I and many others received an apology. :)

westerly

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 06:27 PM
Parliament has apologised to those convicted of homosexual offences prior to the law being changed.
I don't think they have changed the law regarding benefit fraud yet.
However, if our pc MP's are going to apologise retropectively for convictions where the law has been
subsequently changed may I remind them I was fined 3 pound plus costs for drinking in a public bar when I was 20 years old.
It is about time I and many others received an apology. :)

westerly

Okay. I'm sorry you were fined. I know only too well the hurt, psychological damage and financial torture associated with that particular offence..

winner69
31-07-2017, 06:28 PM
Parliament has apologised to those convicted of homosexual offences prior to the law being changed.
I don't think they have changed the law regarding benefit fraud yet.
However, if our pc MP's are going to apologise retropectively for convictions where the law has been
subsequently changed may I remind them I was fined 3 pound plus costs for drinking in a public bar when I was 20 years old.
It is about time I and many others received an apology. :)

westerly

No apology for you westerly ......shouldn't have got caught in first place

elZorro
31-07-2017, 08:35 PM
No apology for you westerly ......shouldn't have got caught in first place

I was refused bar service at 19 years old, but I seem to remember the prices were in decimal currency.. maybe that explains the sage words from Westerly.

To cheer up the lefties, Andrew Little talking to John Campbell.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201853047

By the way, that latest poll shows that the proportion of voters looking to Labour or the Greens is trending up.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 09:03 PM
Good news ; love the transparency and honesty and passion of Little.
Contrarywise i was struck by a short interview on tv news tonight with Bill English. He was lifeless, wooden, disinterested sounding; a wood face with moving lips (a bit like the warriors coach:). Tired , unenthusiastic, going through the motions was my impression. I wonder if there is a smoking gun or something huge about to come out or is Bill just burnt out?

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 10:38 PM
I was refused bar service at 19 years old, but I seem to remember the prices were in decimal currency.. maybe that explains the sage words from Westerly.

To cheer up the lefties, Andrew Little talking to John Campbell.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201853047

By the way, that latest poll shows that the proportion of voters looking to Labour or the Greens is trending up.

Of course it is eZ. You're all but home and hosed.

winner69
01-08-2017, 05:48 AM
All over for Little

Sympathy strategy didn't work ....more like self destruction

Hope the best of opposition parties get together and form a new party to take over in 2020

elZorro
01-08-2017, 05:57 AM
All over for Little

Sympathy strategy didn't work

I've been watching TV1's news for the last three days. Apparently Andrew Little's aside to Corin Dann, where he matter-of-factly said that he was worried enough about the polls to lightly discuss stepping down - and of course that is not what Labour people want - well that has been the number one news item for three days. All the world news out there, and Labour's poor polling is number one? Tell me that won't affect the polls for the next 2-3 weeks. It's free advertising for National.

TV1 is a govt-owned broadcaster, the govt subsidises it. 90% of their income comes from advertisers though. Labour put a sensible public/commercial Charter in place for TVNZ, that was removed by National when they got into office. Back to full commercial TV. Now look at the cooking shows and light treatment we have to endure as a result. From Wikipedia:


The Labour-led government under Helen Clark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Clark) from 1999 to 2008 pursued a programme of public broadcasting reforms. New Zealand's wide-ranging adoption of neoliberal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal) policies in the mid-1980s and 1990s had large sections of the state sector (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_sector_organisations_in_New_Zealand) privatised (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation). As a state owned enterprise, TVNZ enjoyed enormous commercial success (sustaining two-thirds of the overall audience share) and paid the Crown substantial dividends (over $250 million between 1989 and 1999). However, the commercial success had been achieved through an unabashed pursuit of ratings through populist and tabloid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_(newspaper_format)) content, and prior to the 1999 election the National-led government was evidently positioning TVNZ for privatisation Labour-led administrations since 1999 explicitly recognised the market failures of a wholly commercial broadcasting sector (e.g. saturation-level advertising, low levels of local content, heavy reliance on cheap imports and a disregard for quality genres and in-depth news and current affairs) and re-emphasised television's cultural and democratic functions in their policy thinking.
The Clark government's highest profile broadcasting reform to date was the restructuring of TVNZ as a Crown Entity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_entities) in 2003. This introduced a dual remit whereby the broadcaster had to maintain its commercial performance (continuing dividend payments to the Crown) while simultaneously implementing a new public service Charter.
The TVNZ Charter would require the negotiation and reconciliation of potentially contradictory commercial and public service imperatives. The final version of the TVNZ Charter included a range of public service objectives and expectations.
However, this dual remit precluded any transformation of TVNZ into fully-fledged public service broadcaster, and TVNZ's efforts to balance its pursuit of commercial performance and Charter objectives were soon being criticised. Despite some investment in local content, including new documentaries and discussion programmes, the content on TV One and TV2 remained similar to the pre-charter schedules, with a continuing high proportion of light entertainment and reality-TV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-TV) shows.
TVNZ continues to pay dividends to the Crown. However, from 2006 until 2009 TVNZ received $15.11 million each year from Government to assist it with fulfilling Charter obligations. There was much debate about the initial secrecy surrounding funding allocations and the programmes supported. The allocation of $5 million toward coverage of the 2008 Olympics, the rights for which are secured by a competitive tender between broadcasters, was possibly the most controversial. In 2009 the Government gave control of that funding to funding agency NZ On Air (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZ_On_Air). NZ On Air announced the creation of the contestable "Platinum Fund" in April 2009, setting aside the $15.11 million for high quality drama, documentary and other programme types. Following the election of a National Party-led government under John Key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Key) in 2008, the Charter was abolished in favour of a return to the 1990s model of a full commercial broadcaster.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_New_Zealand#cite_note-2)


TVNZ scrapped Channel 7 under National, and other useful things like broadcasting live rugby matches free to air. Now we all have to pay through the nose for SKY. This is the brutal face of commercial TV, and now it would appear that they're doing a good job of trying to keep National in power.

Good on you Andrew for sending a message to TV1, just don't appear for a few days, to give them free ammo that they'll use any way they can, to do more damage.

winner69
01-08-2017, 06:21 AM
Turei fessed up to benefit fraud - seemed to work wonders

A wag on social media suggested that Little should now confess to the Bain murders ....to boost Labour's chance

fungus pudding
01-08-2017, 07:13 AM
TVNZ scrapped Channel 7 under National, and other useful things like broadcasting live rugby matches free to air. Now we all have to pay through the nose for SKY. This is the brutal face of commercial TV, and now it would appear that they're doing a good job of trying to keep National in power.



Of course they are eZ. Nothing whatsoever to do with Labour creating their own disastorous news.

dobby41
01-08-2017, 08:06 AM
Of course they are eZ. Nothing whatsoever to do with Labour creating their own disastorous news.

Own goal I think they call it.

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 08:30 AM
Mike Hoskng is blatantly National on radio as well; don't know who owns that network?. It feels little like the allbacks going to Sth Africa to try and win some games in the 80's ; everything is stacked against you with a blatantly uneven playing field. That can be overcome; truth always shines through in the end..

craic
01-08-2017, 08:54 AM
Not so. In the absence of anyone in their ranks who looks like a leader, they elect an unfortunate union man who was not able to win any seat. I suspect that Andrew Little is a decent bloke by any standards. Their current mantra about poverty and homelessness is up against the reality that we are amongst the top in the top in well managed economies and our mess is nothing like as bad as the mess in other developed countries and people know that. Labours cries about poverty and homelessness may attract some of the homeless and people who consider that they live in poverty but they are in a very small minority in this country. Fortunately, most of us have a roof over our heads and food on the table and a bit more and most people know that waiting for a government to supply your every need is foolishness.

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 09:18 AM
Im not in poverty but i see the gap grow bigger everyday; its not right. Its not right the housing issue created by national; the influx in immigration and slave labour; the growing extinction of our flora and fauna ; the lack of funding for addiction services, hospitals etc etc.Like i said national have picked all the lower hung fruit and if it wasn't for our booming export industry; no credit to them people would start to realise the imbalance here. like in the USA ;people will see somethings wrong and vote for change ; luckily we have a viable option here.
Little has showed himself to be a humble passionate team player who really does want whats best for his country ; not for a chosen minority who will stop at almost nothing to stay there. Give me little over wood face bill anyway for a leader. Watch bill closely next time he is on TV; lifeless, lacking passion or enthusiasm.

Major von Tempsky
01-08-2017, 09:22 AM
So, Little's resigned and it's Jacinda Ardern and Kelvin Davis.

Who's next after them, after September?

BlackPeter
01-08-2017, 09:44 AM
Im not in poverty but i see the gap grow bigger everyday; its not right. Its not right the housing issue created by national; the influx in immigration and slave labour; the growing extinction of our flora and fauna ; the lack of funding for addiction services, hospitals etc etc.Like i said national have picked all the lower hung fruit and if it wasn't for our booming export industry; no credit to them people would start to realise the imbalance here. like in the USA ;people will see somethings wrong and vote for change ; luckily we have a viable option here.
Little has showed himself to be a humble passionate team player who really does want whats best for his country ; not for a chosen minority who will stop at almost nothing to stay there. Give me little over wood face bill anyway for a leader. Watch bill closely next time he is on TV; lifeless, lacking passion or enthusiasm.

JT - sounds like you are a bit out of date ... who is Little? You might need to change your tune ... and Labour has a lot of billboards to replace.

Personally would I think that the new team (Aderne / Davis - if this news gets confirmed) can hardly do worse than their predecessor - and if they would swap the roles and give themselves some time to get used to each other and running the party, maybe in 2020 this could be a winning team under Kelvin ...

Now they just need some good policies and - most important - find a way to attract centre voters. A sexy team alone might not be enough ;).

Doubt however that Labour will give them that much time. They kill off bad leaders after less than 2 years and good leaders after less than one. So, yes MvT - good question - who will be Labour's next interim leader? They might run out of candidates ...

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 09:47 AM
Little has shown his true colours, so have you.
Rise up NZ we deserve better.

BlackPeter
01-08-2017, 09:50 AM
Little has shown his true colours, so have you.

You want to expand on that?

JT - no need to become personal ... better sort out the mess of a party you seem to support.

RGR367
01-08-2017, 10:02 AM
Ouch. The "wooden Bill" versus the deadpan union leader showdown (tv debate) is not going to materialize after all. What a let down. BOO!!

percy
01-08-2017, 10:20 AM
Wonder where the money will come from for new billboards.?

winner69
01-08-2017, 10:40 AM
At least Harry will be happy now ...more walks with the master

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 10:49 AM
Ouch. The "wooden Bill" versus the deadpan union leader showdown (tv debate) is not going to materialize after all. What a let down. BOO!!

Yes that would have been a big reveal.It would have shown an alive passionate genuine energised little contrasted against a lifeless , bloodless ,less charismatic defensive passive aggressive more boring woodface talking all around the actual subject. the penny may have dropped for some then; unfortunately not to be. Still I'm sure Jacinda will do even more in that comparison so the big reveal will still be there..

Major von Tempsky
01-08-2017, 10:57 AM
National didn't create the housing "mess" it was self-created by the tiny minority - 40,000 was quoted I think vs NZ's population of 4.6 million - lacking gumption, initiative, self reliance, any self effort at all.

The meanest intelligence should be able to see that Labour appeals to the homeless to vote for them is never going to put Labour in power. Appeals to those who rent is not going to put Labour in power as something like 60% own their own homes.

Even a moron should be able to see if you are homeless in Auckland you hitchhike out to a provincial centre like Hamilton, New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Rotorua, Taupo & & and pick up a job even if it's only stacking shelves or sweeping or standing behind a counter, get yourself a bicycle, and a cheap rental, tap into church foodbanks, or move around the missions, Sally Army, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist in turn for free accommodation etc.
It takes a genius to determinedly starve to death with no roof over your head in NZ and one is expected to vote Labour as the main, or only issue, to express sympathy for these total morons? And Labour expects to win the election in this way?

elZorro
01-08-2017, 11:01 AM
Labour still has those good policies, still a big team out in the NZ electorates. Guess we'll be changing some party signs. I'm very disappointed that, yet again, Labour have let the press decide that we need a new leader, and who it could be.

Bjauck
01-08-2017, 11:07 AM
Labour still has those good policies, still a big team out in the NZ electorates. Guess we'll be changing some party signs. I'm very disappointed that, yet again, Labour have let the press decide that we need a new leader, and who it could be.
Tbh, I have always respected Ardern. She has more of the x-factor (more so than her predecessor). Bold move by Labour, although somewhat desperate at this stage. I think they will get more seats as a result.

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 11:27 AM
National didn't create the housing "mess" it was self-created by the tiny minority - 40,000 was quoted I think vs NZ's population of 4.6 million - lacking gumption, initiative, self reliance, any self effort at all.

The meanest intelligence should be able to see that Labour appeals to the homeless to vote for them is never going to put Labour in power. Appeals to those who rent is not going to put Labour in power as something like 60% own their own homes.

Even a moron should be able to see if you are homeless in Auckland you hitchhike out to a provincial centre like Hamilton, New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Rotorua, Taupo & & and pick up a job even if it's only stacking shelves or sweeping or standing behind a counter, get yourself a bicycle, and a cheap rental, tap into church foodbanks, or move around the missions, Sally Army, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist in turn for free accommodation etc.
It takes a genius to determinedly starve to death with no roof over your head in NZ and one is expected to vote Labour as the main, or only issue, to express sympathy for these total morons? And Labour expects to win the election in this way?

Yeah just a 1st world prob ehh MVT. Maybe go and live and dine at the calcutta rubbish dump for a year will bring more empathy to an empty soul.;)

Bjauck
01-08-2017, 11:28 AM
... Appeals to those who rent is not going to put Labour in power as something like 60% own their own homes.... What about those home owners who need to move to Auckland or with a family and now want trade up from their starter home but find that they still need to have to a horrendous mortgage to afford to do so?

For the homeless, how many extra are just about homeless? How many struggling with accommodation costs whether in their own home or not? How many who bought decades ago, mortgage free now, but struggling to pay rates and other costs in now expensive suburbs as policies failed to enable sufficient housing and infrastructure to be built elsewhere for the population increase?

winner69
01-08-2017, 11:55 AM
Not many builders / developers have the wherewithal or the incentive to build 'cheap' / affordable homes

We may as well put governments in that category as well .....current and any future government.

Maybe there isn't a real housing crisis anyway!!

artemis
01-08-2017, 12:07 PM
Or local government (elected by the locals who obviously liked the cut of their jibs). Because - land, red tape, planners.

winner69
01-08-2017, 12:12 PM
Labour really stuffed things up

I hope they now give Jacinda free rein to do what she wants and do things her way

A simple narrative and a big smile might seduce many voters - hope she doesn't get bogged down with policy - have fun and laugh your way to success. Being 'serious' wont win the election.

Bill won't be able to cope with this approach

Major von Tempsky
01-08-2017, 12:56 PM
Yeah just a 1st world prob ehh MVT. Maybe go and live and dine at the calcutta rubbish dump for a year will bring more empathy to an empty soul.;)
I think Joshua Tree has totally lost it! He has a colonial mentality to start with, there's no such place as Calcutta these days.
I fail to see what relevance the Kolkatta rubbish dump has to the NZ election? How many NZ voters live, work or relate to the Kkolkatta rubbish dump?

And as for Bjauck I managed to move from Auckland to Christchurch and vastly improved my housing situation in doing so - I advise others to do it too.
Nobody HAS to move to Auckland, it's a free country. But there are outlying townships like Helensville one can do a commute from. Most houses are improvable, add a room(s), garage etc.

Oops. I forgot certain people are Labour voters and thus congenitally unable to think, visualise, exercise initiative... They demand the Government does everything for them, supply a cushy job, build them a house while they lie back and play housie...

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 12:59 PM
I lose it all the time, thats how i make great discoveries:t_up:

fungus pudding
01-08-2017, 01:08 PM
So, Little's resigned and it's Jacinda Ardern and Kelvin Davis.

Who's next after them, after September?

Stuart Nash, who might be their saviour.

fungus pudding
01-08-2017, 01:13 PM
Labour still has those good policies, still a big team out in the NZ electorates. Guess we'll be changing some party signs. I'm very disappointed that, yet again, Labour have let the press decide that we need a new leader, and who it could be.

Tough alright eZ. Nothing to do with the fact electors deserted Labour, mainly because of its woeful leadership as many have pointed out to you throughout Cunliffe and Little's time. No-siree; it was some journalists.
Sad thing for you is, they still haven't got it right in spite of the fact you will now tell us Adern is the new messiah.

Bjauck
01-08-2017, 01:31 PM
I think Joshua Tree has totally lost it! He has a colonial mentality to start with, there's no such place as Calcutta these days.
I fail to see what relevance the Kolkatta rubbish dump has to the NZ election? How many NZ voters live, work or relate to the Kkolkatta rubbish dump? Should we not be communicating in Maori? Kolkata? Stripping away the British (itself the sum of being the colonies of various Empires) colonialism of Roman alphabet and English language, do you mean কলিকাতা ?


And as for Bjauck I managed to move from Auckland to Christchurch and vastly improved my housing situation in doing so - I advise others to do it too. Nobody HAS to move to Auckland, it's a free country. But there are outlying townships like Helensville one can do a commute from. Most houses are improvable, add a room(s), garage etc. What with unaffordabale residential land, it is far from a free country. You can move further out of Auckland - have you checked the house prices in Helensville recently? Then you have to factor in increased travel and commuting costs, and you could try Auckland's mass transit system (lol)

Fair enough no-one has to move to where their jobs or other jobs are. Maybe ChCH will become the international hub. No-one need to get a bigger property for a growing family - you could always squeeze a third child into the box-room. How do you expand a house on a postage stamp sized section? How do you add rooms onto a flat? That is what our leaders for the past few years have been advising Aucklanders to buy as their first home. You could probably get even more for your money in Bluff. If granny lives the far end of the country there is always Skype (disclaimer: there are other online messaging apps as well!) We can evolve to grow pixellation instead of wrinkles.


Oops. I forgot certain people are Labour voters and thus congenitally unable to think, visualise, exercise initiative... They demand the Government does everything for them, supply a cushy job, build them a house while they lie back and play housie...Sounds like both sides of the political divide in the 1950's.

winner69
01-08-2017, 04:49 PM
Got my first email from Jacinda ....on the scrounge she was, for cash of course.

I couldn't resist the smile - she seduced me into giving

Baa_Baa
01-08-2017, 04:59 PM
Got my first email from Jacinda ....on the scrounge she was, for cash of course.

I couldn't resist the smile - she seduced me into giving

That smile has ex-appeal, ex Little that is. She'll be right, good move for Labour but another term in opposition coming imo.

westerly
01-08-2017, 05:54 PM
And as for Bjauck I managed to move from Auckland to Christchurch and vastly improved my housing situation in doing so - I advise others to do it too.

...

You were homeless then?
Unless you give a reason for your move that has no more credibility than your analysis of Labour voters.

westerly

GTM 3442
01-08-2017, 06:02 PM
So what are the political risks to my New Zealand share portfolio after the election?

Which result(s) will act to decrease it's value, which result(s) will act to increase it's value, and which resuly(s) will be greeted with a shrug and a yawn?

elZorro
02-08-2017, 07:18 AM
The press have been a lot more pleasant with Labour in the last 12 hours or so, maybe because they forced this change on the party, and maybe it was a good change. Kelvin Davis is a strong deputy, brings in some instant links with Maori voters, and Jacinda Ardern has stepped up really well so far. Already Labour has received enough funds from small donations in one day, to cover the cost of redoing the party vote hoardings throughout NZ. Even Paddy Gower is impressed.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/patrick-gower-jacinda-s-on-fire-national-should-be-frightened.html

Bjauck
02-08-2017, 07:26 AM
So what are the political risks to my New Zealand share portfolio after the election?

Which result(s) will act to decrease it's value, which result(s) will act to increase it's value, and which resuly(s) will be greeted with a shrug and a yawn?
I am guessing that any result that makes Winston grin like a Cheshire Cat with a big saucer of cream will spook the markets - for a while at least. National back in will mean business as usual ( not that that is a good thing imo in some policy areas.)

BlackPeter
02-08-2017, 08:00 AM
The press have been a lot more pleasant with Labour in the last 12 hours or so, maybe because they forced this change on the party, and maybe it was a good change. Kelvin Davis is a strong deputy, brings in some instant links with Maori voters, and Jacinda Ardern has stepped up really well so far. Already Labour has received enough funds from small donations in one day, to cover the cost of redoing the party vote hoardings throughout NZ. Even Paddy Gower is impressed.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/patrick-gower-jacinda-s-on-fire-national-should-be-frightened.html

Let's wait until the honeymoon is over ;); What however has not changed are your ramping posts ... but amazing how quick the best Labour leader of all times got replaced.

Come on EZ, how do you expect your propaganda to have any credibility if you basically change in the middle of one post from Little to Aderne as being the saviour? People need some time for grief and to digest :p

winner69
02-08-2017, 08:04 AM
You seem pretty grumpy today Blackpeter

If bull... needs to change his name to bear.... maybe you should change yours to grumps

Just saying

fungus pudding
02-08-2017, 08:08 AM
The press have been a lot more pleasant with Labour in the last 12 hours or so, maybe because they forced this change on the party, and maybe it was a good change.


That is a ridiculous comment. Nothing to do with the press. Posters on this site have been telling you for years that Labour's biggest trouble has been appointing unelectable leaders such as Cunliffe and Little. Obviously you'll get a fair bounce by dumping Little. In fact I can see a coaltion between Labour, The Kermits and Winston First taking the election, but it could only happen if your lot let Winnie the poo be the P.M.
Allah forbid.

BlackPeter
02-08-2017, 08:09 AM
You seem pretty grumpy today Blackpeter

If bull... needs to change his name to bear.... maybe you should change yours to grumps

Just saying

Why would you say that?

BTW - in the area I come from is Black Peter (or the "Krampus" as we call him) a grumpy guy who states the inconvenient truth people don't want to hear. My penname is absolutely spot on :t_up:, no need to change.

Bjauck
02-08-2017, 08:22 AM
Why would you say that?

BTW - in the area I come from is Black Peter (or the "Krampus" as we call him) a grumpy guy who states the inconvenient truth people don't want to hear. My penname is absolutely spot on :t_up:, no need to change. The Krampus is not confined to Christmas time?

My (Irish) grandma used to refer to unknown noises as the old Grampus getting up to his tricks.

BlackPeter
02-08-2017, 08:42 AM
The Krampus is not confined to Christmas time?

My (Irish) grandma used to refer to unknown noises as the old Grampus getting up to his tricks.

actually - the big day is Saint Nicholas (December 6th). But hey - he must be somewhere for the rest of the year - doesn't he?

Joshuatree
02-08-2017, 09:08 AM
That is a ridiculous comment. Nothing to do with the press. Posters on this site have been telling you for years that Labour's biggest trouble has been appointing unelectable leaders such as Cunliffe and Little. Obviously you'll get a fair bounce by dumping Little. In fact I can see a coaltion between Labour, The Kermits and Winston First taking the election, but it could only happen if your lot let Winnie the poo be the P.M.
Allah forbid.

Put Little next to wood face bill and its no contest, one alive and passionate and honest ,one a wood face who has failed credibility and honesty tests. But keep bill there don't replace him;hes just what the doctor ordered along with his smoking gun side kick Bennetficary suspect.:t_up:

BlackPeter
02-08-2017, 09:24 AM
Put Little next to wood face bill and its no contest, one alive and passionate and honest ,one a wood face who has failed credibility and honesty tests. But keep bill there don't replace him;hes just what the doctor ordered along with his smoking gun side kick Bennetficary suspect.:t_up:

JT, sadly your posts are the best evidence that changing the leadership for Labour made no difference at all. Labour's supporters still have nothing to offer but unsubstantiated smears against honorable politicians. Same old - same old ... this honeymoon will be short.

Joshuatree
02-08-2017, 09:27 AM
superiority complex shining through:D

artemis
02-08-2017, 10:03 AM
Im not in poverty but i see the gap grow bigger everyday; its not right.......

I agree it's not right.

GINI co-efficient cf media and Opposition anecdata.

Major von Tempsky
02-08-2017, 10:18 AM
Even that erstwhile never say die supporter of Andrew Little EZ is impressed. Did he ever support Andrew Little? Who was Andrew Little?

Joshuatree
02-08-2017, 10:38 AM
Got my first email from Jacinda ....on the scrounge she was, for cash of course.

I couldn't resist the smile - she seduced me into giving

Good on you winner69,me too just now. Come on one and all donate and even things up a bit and lets get the momentum going and encourage traditional nat voters to open their minds and be a little brave and look at the things we need to change, fix, rise up we can do a lot better. It is a cop out imo sticking to a voting habit or belief just because its been a tradition ; times and situs have changed and i believe labour/greens are the ones to repair the unfolding social damage, immigration and housing and environmental issues happening right now. With a fresh enthusiastic altruistic team that haven't been tainted by entrenched power and greed and whose main motivation has been in staying there, lets go for the better and the good.

BlackPeter
02-08-2017, 10:48 AM
Good on you winner69,me too just now. Come on one and all donate and even things up a bit and lets get the momentum going and encourage traditional nat voters to open their minds and be a little brave and look at the things we need to change, fix, rise up we can do a lot better. It is a cop out imo sticking to a voting habit or belief just because its been a tradition ; times and situs have changed and i believe labour/greens are the ones to repair the unfolding social damage, immigration and housing and environmental issues happening right now. With a fresh enthusiastic altruistic team that haven't been tainted by entrenched power and greed and whose main motivation has been in staying there, lets go for the better and the good.

"Open your minds" and wallets - what a great idea! Don't get stuck in your left wing corner, but

contribute here to ACT's great campaign:
http://act.org.nz/donate/

Obviously - if you prefer to support National - here is the respective link:
https://www.national.org.nz/donate

westerly
02-08-2017, 10:48 AM
Why would you say that?

BTW - in the area I come from is Black Peter (or the "Krampus" as we call him) a grumpy guy who states the inconvenient truth people don't want to hear. My penname is absolutely spot on :t_up:, no need to change.

Also seems to attract a few protesters. ?

westerly

winner69
02-08-2017, 05:58 PM
"Open your minds" and wallets - what a great idea! Don't get stuck in your left wing corner, but

contribute here to ACT's great campaign:
http://act.org.nz/donate/

Obviously - if you prefer to support National - here is the respective link:
https://www.national.org.nz/donate

Don't get much for your buck entertainment wise with ACT or the Nats. Boring as eh

At least Jacinda will give us a few weeks of good entertainment and make the lead up to the big event

She'll probably end up like Corbyn - winner in the public eye but still a loser

Good fun though

fungus pudding
02-08-2017, 06:13 PM
"Open your minds" and wallets - what a great idea! Don't get stuck in your left wing corner, but

contribute here to ACT's great campaign:
http://act.org.nz/donate/

Obviously - if you prefer to support National - here is the respective link:
https://www.national.org.nz/donate

Also you can order David Seymour's book on Act site. Due out shortly.

elZorro
02-08-2017, 06:25 PM
Don't get much for your buck entertainment wise with ACT or the Nats. Boring as eh

At least Jacinda will give us a few weeks of good entertainment and make the lead up to the big event

She'll probably end up like Corbyn - winner in the public eye but still a loser

Good fun though

I think you've forgotten about the Labour-Greens MOU, W69. If the Greens hold their 15% and Labour gets back to a sensible 33% or so in the polls (their running average over the last 6 months was closer to 30% in a poll of polls), they'll outstrip National by election day.

Labour has just changed their Leader. If this means more people will get interested in voting, will look at Labour's polices, and Green policies, then it is a great thing. There are still the same articulate, smart people in Labour/Greens who are interested in the many, not the few.

iceman
02-08-2017, 06:40 PM
I think you've forgotten about the Labour-Greens MOU, W69. If the Greens hold their 15% and Labour gets back to a sensible 33% or so in the polls (their running average over the last 6 months was closer to 30% in a poll of polls), they'll outstrip National by election day.

Labour has just changed their Leader. If this means more people will get interested in voting, will look at Labour's polices, and Green policies, then it is a great thing. There are still the same articulate, smart people in Labour/Greens who are interested in the many, not the few.

They haven't been "articulate or smart" so far EZ, hence the bad polling for Labour. Their policies are not finding favour with voters. As predicted, Turei coming out admitting fraud seems to have taken some voters from Labour to the Greens, hence Little falling on his sword. I suspect Ardern may increase Labour's vote a little but it is more likely to come from the Greens than National. So nothing changes except a Labour leader is now out of the running for PM. Winston's hand has just received a massive boost.
But what will happen after the election when the Unions can again start flexing their muscle about leadership of Labour ? I doubt Ardern is their choice.

hardt
02-08-2017, 06:48 PM
Don't get much for your buck entertainment wise with ACT or the Nats. Boring as eh

At least Jacinda will give us a few weeks of good entertainment and make the lead up to the big event

She'll probably end up like Corbyn - winner in the public eye but still a loser

Good fun though

Jacinda is getting thrown in there, would like to see what the political machine spits out at the end of it

I would prefer David Parker, calm headed, experienced, hardworking guy... come to think of it, he sounds better suited for National.

DISC: Blue blooded

Joshuatree
02-08-2017, 06:50 PM
I wouldn't be so presumptive iceman as i don't have a tardus. lets wait and see ehh. I personally think bill should be the one falling on his wood chopper and the smoking gun bennett; well will watch it play out if there is something there..Winston has facts that bill texted Glenys 400 times re the Todd coverup. What a hot pile of****.

winner69
02-08-2017, 06:58 PM
This could lead to a few laughs - jeez I have something in common with Jacinda

another donation coming up

From Stuff

The MP that most grinds her gears? That award goes to ACT leader David Seymour who she says can "definitely get my back up".

fungus pudding
02-08-2017, 07:01 PM
I think you've forgotten about the Labour-Greens MOU, W69. If the Greens hold their 15% and Labour gets back to a sensible 33% or so in the polls (their running average over the last 6 months was closer to 30% in a poll of polls), they'll outstrip National by election day.

Labour has just changed their Leader. If this means more people will get interested in voting, will look at Labour's polices, and Green policies, then it is a great thing. There are still the same articulate, smart people in Labour/Greens who are interested in the many, not the few.

Interesting comment about articulate MPs, eZ. I know how deeply sensitive you are about correct pronunciation, having laboured the point about Paula Bennet's mispronunciation of hyperbole. You could do every NZer a favour and teach your new messiah how to pronounce the simple plural word 'women' which she pronounces as the singular word, 'woman'. Buy her a dictionary.

elZorro
02-08-2017, 07:02 PM
I wouldn't be so presumptive iceman as i don't have a tardus. lets wait and see ehh. I personally think bill should be the one falling on his wood chopper and the smoking gun bennett; well will watch it play out if there is something there..Winston has facts that bill texted Glenys 400 times re the Todd coverup. What a hot pile of****.

Yep, it's a bit weird that Bill's been texting messages to his former electorate secretary for weeks, but apparently for a while, didn't know what was going on at all, as it was an employment matter..

Here's a blast of real politics, Jacinda and Kelvin at their first press conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxejFpT8TD4

Sgt Pepper
02-08-2017, 07:12 PM
Yep, it's a bit weird that Bill's been texting messages to his former electorate secretary for weeks, but apparently for a while, didn't know what was going on at all, as it was an employment matter..

Here's a blast of real politics, Jacinda and Kelvin at their first press conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxejFpT8TD4

Fascinating indeed. Sending hundreds of txts and yet completely oblivious to what was occurring. Naivety? or does Bill have more in common with Pinocchio than we thought??

Joshuatree
02-08-2017, 07:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxejFpT8TD4

Thanks; have just watched it, what a natural, nothing wooden or lifeless there thats for sure. She has channelled my line "We can do better";). A breath of fresh air; hope it continues and becomes the tailwind of change that we all need.

Baa_Baa
02-08-2017, 08:04 PM
She has channelled my line "We can do better";). A breath of fresh air; hope it continues and becomes the tailwind of change that we all need.

Good luck Josh and all the best, it's interesting to see another side of you, so highly motivated to your cause. I for one however am not a supporter of that cause and certainly don't agree that it is something we "all need", nor am I bothered to debate it here. No hard feelings.

elZorro
03-08-2017, 06:51 AM
This could lead to a few laughs - jeez I have something in common with Jacinda

another donation coming up

From Stuff

The MP that most grinds her gears? That award goes to ACT leader David Seymour who she says can "definitely get my back up".

Haven't heard much from ACT or National for a day or two. I sent Labour a donation too, W69, first one for a while, must be infectious. I will be doing my bit with new party vote hoardings, I wonder what the slogan will be?

Unemployment rate down a bit, not as low as Labour managed, but the participation rate is also down. Just 70% of those in NZ of working age are looking for work.

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/5512fec1/nz-jobless-rate-falls-near-8-year-low-as-participation-dips-employment-drops.html?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Thursday+3+ August+2017

I see that travelling time for Aucklanders has doubled in just 3-4 years, as their motorways become congested. That's National's Brighter Future from lots of really good policy.

dobby41
03-08-2017, 07:07 AM
Unemployment rate down a bit, not as low as Labour managed, but the participation rate is also down. Just 70% of those in NZ of working age are looking for work.

Unemployment rate is interesting.
I know lots of people who are employed but under employed.
They don't have enough hours to live well (mostly around 30hrs) so they are employed but struggle.
The figures paint a rosier picture than reality.

fungus pudding
03-08-2017, 07:44 AM
Haven't heard much from ACT or National for a day or two. I sent Labour a donation too, W69, first one for a while, must be infectious. I will be doing my bit with new party vote hoardings, I wonder what the slogan will be?


''We take care of the 'Little' guy''.

Bjauck
03-08-2017, 07:53 AM
Interesting comment about articulate MPs, eZ. I know how deeply sensitive you are about correct pronunciation, having laboured the point about Paula Bennet's mispronunciation of hyperbole. You could do every NZer a favour and teach your new messiah how to pronounce the simple plural word 'women' which she pronounces as the singular word, 'woman'. Buy her a dictionary.
It is a normal pronunciation. Also, other English speakers think most Kiwis pronounce men as "min" and women as "wumun"

And Aussies take delight in getting Kiwis to order "fish and chips."

fungus pudding
03-08-2017, 08:18 AM
It is a normal pronunciation. Also, other English speakers think most Kiwis pronounce men as "min" and women as "wumun"

And Aussies take delight in getting Kiwis to order "fish and chips."

Nothing to do with what other English speakers think. The correct pronunciation of women is 'wimmin'.

Joshuatree
03-08-2017, 08:21 AM
Cant live withimm can't live withouthimm

Major von Tempsky
03-08-2017, 08:32 AM
You have performed a logical non-sequitur EZ. "If the Greens hold their 15%.." That means the Greens keeping the 3% plus that they took off Labour with sympathy for Metiria Turei. The Greens can't have the 3% at the same time that Labour does. You're double counting.

artemis
03-08-2017, 09:38 AM
Unemployment rate is interesting.
I know lots of people who are employed but under employed.
They don't have enough hours to live well (mostly around 30hrs) so they are employed but struggle.
The figures paint a rosier picture than reality.

Interesting. I also know quite a few people who work 30 hours a week or fewer. Including me.

More interesting would be a survey of a sample of part timers to delve into their circumstances a bit more. Specifically, are these single income households. With or without children. Government transfers received. Total household income. Rates of pay. Part time hours by choice or not.

Rates of pay - several of the part timers I know are on very high rates and have no desire to work more hours. Fewer hours, yes maybe.

Point I am making is that statistics do not necessarily show the full story. These part timers are not always shelf stackers at the Warehouse on minimum wage and fewer hours than they want / need.

dobby41
03-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Point I am making is that statistics do not necessarily show the full story. These part timers are not always shelf stackers at the Warehouse on minimum wage and fewer hours than they want / need.

They wouldn't be in the group I was thinking about who work but need more hours.

artemis
03-08-2017, 02:26 PM
They wouldn't be in the group I was thinking about who work but need more hours.

I get that, but how would anyone know numbers and impacts if all part timers are lumped in together. Maybe there are only a handful in the group you are thinking about. And most of the remainder live in Remmers and work part time for pocket money and social reasons. Who knows?

dobby41
03-08-2017, 02:56 PM
I get that, but how would anyone know numbers and impacts if all part timers are lumped in together. Maybe there are only a handful in the group you are thinking about. And most of the remainder live in Remmers and work part time for pocket money and social reasons. Who knows?

I don't think they are in the stats at all.
My point is that they aren't 'part timers' - they are classed as full time workers (30hrs) but can't live easily on what they get, they need more.
They aren't captured in the unemployment stats.

iceman
03-08-2017, 04:32 PM
Interesting take on the hype from John Armstrong : "prevailing wisdom" is that Ardern will win back all those former Labour voters, but there is little evidence as yet to make such an assumption. You could have been excused for thinking Labour had just won the general election, rather than indulging in a last-minute exercise in survival. Amidst such euphoria, it is easy to forget the scale of the leap required to bridge the gap between leader and deputy leader.

In her prior capacity as deputy, Ardern had run up all of four months' experience in a senior management position in the party. She has never stamped a particular personal vision on the policies that have emerged from the shadow portfolios she has held during her nine years as an MP. Neither has she shown that she possesses the finely-tuned political instincts of a John Key, a Richard Prebble or, crucially in her case, a Bill English.
Perhaps most important of all, she has never landed a sustained hit which really rattled Labour's old foe."

elZorro
03-08-2017, 07:56 PM
Interesting take on the hype from John Armstrong : "prevailing wisdom" is that Ardern will win back all those former Labour voters, but there is little evidence as yet to make such an assumption. You could have been excused for thinking Labour had just won the general election, rather than indulging in a last-minute exercise in survival. Amidst such euphoria, it is easy to forget the scale of the leap required to bridge the gap between leader and deputy leader.

In her prior capacity as deputy, Ardern had run up all of four months' experience in a senior management position in the party. She has never stamped a particular personal vision on the policies that have emerged from the shadow portfolios she has held during her nine years as an MP. Neither has she shown that she possesses the finely-tuned political instincts of a John Key, a Richard Prebble or, crucially in her case, a Bill English.
Perhaps most important of all, she has never landed a sustained hit which really rattled Labour's old foe."

But she should be able to make amends for that, within seven weeks.

Suicide prevention providers Lifeline left out in the cold with a new contract being awarded, for twice the funds. Bill's wife is on the board of the new outfit.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11897877

777
03-08-2017, 08:18 PM
I suppose the infighting within the party will hold off until after the election.

winner69
04-08-2017, 06:28 AM
James Shaw keeping a low profile these days

World imploding around the Greens and with Jacinda on fire Greens going below 10% I reckon

dobby41
04-08-2017, 06:57 AM
But she should be able to make amends for that, within seven weeks.

Suicide prevention providers Lifeline left out in the cold with a new contract being awarded, for twice the funds. Bill's wife is on the board of the new outfit.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11897877

Not a good look.
The new outfit will probably do well and they can crow about their succes - with double the funding of Lifeline.

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 08:01 AM
But she should be able to make amends for that, within seven weeks.

Suicide prevention providers Lifeline left out in the cold with a new contract being awarded, for twice the funds. Bill's wife is on the board of the new outfit.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11897877

EZ, did you read the article or just the sensationalist headline?

Your lot must be quite desperate ...

And while we are talking your preferred and essential coalition partner keeps digging ... Metiria just added address fraud to her self confessed benefit fraud. A partner Labour can be proud of.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95393791/metiria-turei-faces-investigators-looking-into-her-admission-of-historical-benefit-fraud

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 08:03 AM
James Shaw keeping a low profile these days

World imploding around the Greens and with Jacindq on fire Greens going below 10% I reckon

Winston will be creaming himself.

dobby41
04-08-2017, 08:13 AM
And while we are talking your preferred and essential coalition partner keeps digging ... Metiria just added address fraud to her self confessed benefit fraud. A partner Labour can be proud of.

Wow - just keeps on giving.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 08:19 AM
Wow - just keeps on giving.

She won't be happy that that has come out. Presumably WINZ have been digging through the electoral roll. Her excuse 'I did it because my friend was standing in that electorate' sounds completely implausible to me. Who would do that? That is the thing that should be investigated, cos if she was shacked up there with the kids daddy - that would be super naughty.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 08:40 AM
Cant wait for bennetts non admission:)
Jacinda Adern has just stated on national radio that no deals giving the PM's job to Winston; not there to gain power at all costs. Admirable

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 08:51 AM
Good luck Josh and all the best, it's interesting to see another side of you, so highly motivated to your cause. I for one however am not a supporter of that cause and certainly don't agree that it is something we "all need", nor am I bothered to debate it here. No hard feelings.

Thanks Baa Baa; it sure has energised things the change of leadership; Little i will always hold in the highest regard and i will be very happy if he makes it into cabinet.
Early days but it looks like we might actually have a good competition here now and i hope that draws many more of us public into being involved and proactive about where and what they want their country to be and to put its people and environment first.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 08:54 AM
Cant wait for bennetts non admission:)
Jacinda Adern has just stated on national radio that no deals giving the PM's job to Winston; not there to gain power at all costs. Admirable

I didn't hear that, but it's great news. And being on National radio it must be accurate. :D

Major von Tempsky
04-08-2017, 09:08 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/calls-for-metiria-turei-to-resign/ar-AApnB6p?li=AAaeXZz&ocid=spartanntp

After being discovered to be living at the same address with both the father of her children and her mother, evidenced by the electoral roll!, while claiming solo mother benefits - she doesn't have any choice but to resign does she?

I mean apart from moral reasons, surely she is disqualified for sheer stupidity?

Jay
04-08-2017, 09:53 AM
Why can't people on here get Jacinda's name correct, it is Ardern not Adern - common courtesy to get someones name right -Got to watch that spell check eh!

So if Labour won't entertain WP as PM and National not likely to either , where does that leave Winston or indeed Labour or National if NZ 1st has a reasonable vote % and more especially if the Greens vote falls
Could be interesting.

dobby41
04-08-2017, 10:05 AM
So if Labour won't entertain WP as PM and National not likely to either , where does that leave Winston or indeed Labour or National if NZ 1st has a reasonable vote % and more especially if the Greens vote falls
Could be interesting.

If one or the other needs Winston then he will probably have to settle for something less than PM - if neither side will give it to him.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 11:09 AM
I didn't hear that, but it's great news. And being on National radio it must be accurate. :D

Tell me a more accurate source. Sometimes my interpretation is wrong and i forget names so i can be a weak link.Always go to the source RNZ National .It has endless interesting subjects and podcasts to refer back to. In a growing world of fake news and spin this is the place to be. Jacinta was interviewed here this morning.
So people can bypass Winston altogether and isolate him or will national take him to remain in power" at any cost"?

dobby41
04-08-2017, 12:21 PM
So people can bypass Winston altogether and isolate him or will national take him to remain in power" at any cost"?

There will be a 'cost' but I doubt either party will do it 'at any cost'.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 12:30 PM
I know labour won't but until i see that national have put a line in the sand, "at any cost "is valid .We will see.

elZorro
04-08-2017, 07:08 PM
National have had to bring forward their transport policy announcement, and it seems to include the previously ignored "Third Rail" link. The price is now $100mill, not $65mill. Anyway, they're making sense at last. Maybe they just kept it aside so it would seem a grand gesture for the voting public.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11898638

craic
04-08-2017, 10:27 PM
elZorro, there are left supporters and there at right supporters and a few strays in the middle. The vote will be cast and one side or the other will win. It doesn't matter all that much for most of us. You have your business, and I have my ute stuck in the mud down by the road. I half killed myself trying to free my ute and finally gave up and came up with a mate and had dinner and a skinful of alcohol. I will dig my ute out tomorrow, one way or another. meteria Turei will go away and your Jacinda will have her say. By Wednesday of next week I and my other half will be on a cruise liner somewhere in Indonesia or thereabouts. Unfortunately, after two or thee weeks away from all the crap we are back to " the election and all that that entails. But the good part is that we will be getting it all together for a cruise down the Mississippi from Memphis to New Orleans for a couple of weeks of Cajun culture. NZ politics is boring.
'

elZorro
05-08-2017, 08:59 AM
elZorro, there are left supporters and there at right supporters and a few strays in the middle. The vote will be cast and one side or the other will win. It doesn't matter all that much for most of us. You have your business, and I have my ute stuck in the mud down by the road. I half killed myself trying to free my ute and finally gave up and came up with a mate and had dinner and a skinful of alcohol. I will dig my ute out tomorrow, one way or another. meteria Turei will go away and your Jacinda will have her say. By Wednesday of next week I and my other half will be on a cruise liner somewhere in Indonesia or thereabouts. Unfortunately, after two or thee weeks away from all the crap we are back to " the election and all that that entails. But the good part is that we will be getting it all together for a cruise down the Mississippi from Memphis to New Orleans for a couple of weeks of Cajun culture. NZ politics is boring.
'

That almost sounds like an admission of impending defeat for National in 2017, Craic. I would think that while NZ politics may be boring for some, this election has had its share of interesting turns already. National's leader and PM steps down, Labour's leader steps aside, Greens Co-Leader admits small-scale fraud, backs away from possible ministerial post.

On balance, I think the Labour-Green coalition's prospects have improved markedly through all this. We're on the radar, the press like the look of it, and that's a really big help.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/patrick-gower-metiria-turei-has-done-the-right-thing-national-won-t-like-it.html

Enjoy your trip away, Craic.

fungus pudding
05-08-2017, 09:04 AM
Good performance from Adern on the Nation this morning. Certainly shows how they were pushing it up hill with Little. She'll definitely pick up on their last polling, almost certainly to the detriment of The Kermits, and possibly Winston First. She represents a challenge to National - first time we've seen any spark from Labour since Helen C. That's a good thing. Keeps National on their toes. Now, if they can get their policies right, they could be back in the hot seat within a few years.

Joshuatree
05-08-2017, 09:08 AM
Int interview on national radio with the canadian judge asked to review and write report on the bain case.
Pretty damming re Judith collins and the politicalising of it all. More on the David bain thread.

ratkin
05-08-2017, 09:58 AM
Cant believe you had my post taken down, so much for freedom of speech that you hold so dear. As long as it does not offend you that is.
A harmless spoof of a billboard, hardly offensive despite a Four letter word that is now so commonplace it is heard many times per day.

Joshuatree
05-08-2017, 11:12 AM
How low do you want to go to win at any cost; stoop to conquer is that nationals maxim

Meanwhile here is the interview with Justice Binney over what i believe was the political interference in the bain case by collins and national

Listenduration 47′ :25″ (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201853679/justice-ian-binnie-compensating-david-bain)

elZorro
05-08-2017, 06:15 PM
Good performance from Adern on the Nation this morning. Certainly shows how they were pushing it up hill with Little. She'll definitely pick up on their last polling, almost certainly to the detriment of The Kermits, and possibly Winston First. She represents a challenge to National - first time we've seen any spark from Labour since Helen C. That's a good thing. Keeps National on their toes. Now, if they can get their policies right, they could be back in the hot seat within a few years.

You wish, FP. Quite a few voters changing their minds at the moment, or making decisions.

Interesting comic strip here.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-greed-vs-need

fungus pudding
05-08-2017, 07:18 PM
You wish, FP. Quite a few voters changing their minds at the moment, or making decisions.

Interesting comic strip here.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-greed-vs-need

I don't wish at all. Either National or Labour with sensible policies and competent MPs. I don't care. Either will do.

iceman
05-08-2017, 10:10 PM
Jacinda has done well in coming out strongly and forcing Metiria to "come to her own decision" to withdraw from Senior Ministerial responsibility (she should go further and withdraw from Leadership and the list) should they form a Government and also by shutting down the possibility of Winston becoming PM. Now it will be interesting to see if she comes up with some decent policy for voters. Her smile will not do the trick alone.

fungus pudding
06-08-2017, 01:55 AM
Jacinda has done well in coming out strongly and forcing Metiria to "come to her own decision" to withdraw from Senior Ministerial responsibility (she should go further and withdraw from Leadership and the list) should they form a Government and also by shutting down the possibility of Winston becoming PM. Now it will be interesting to see if she comes up with some decent policy for voters. Her smile will not do the trick alone.
Sensible policies and not giving finance to Parker,
or anything at all to Twyford
and she'll do fairly well.

elZorro
06-08-2017, 06:22 PM
Sensible policies and not giving finance to Parker,
or anything at all to Twyford
and she'll do fairly well.

Glad you brought those names up to date, FP. Carter hasn't been around for a while. Do Parker and Twyford put too much thought into their work, is that the problem?

I note that John Key was also guilty of enrolling in an electorate (Helensville) for three years that he didn't reside in, he used a house that he owned there.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95446430/why-is-everyone-talking-about-metiria-turei

Rousing reception for Jacinda in Auckland today. More good Labour policy rolled out.

https://youtu.be/E5e7jKOnt3I

elZorro
07-08-2017, 06:48 AM
Labour's still in the news this morning, with plenty of positive feedback about their accelerated Auckland light rail plans.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1708/S00178/auckland-chamber-on-labour-transport-policy.htm?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Monday+7+Au gust+2017

Funding it partly through a local fuel levy makes plenty of sense, judging from the number of cars up there, it won't need much per litre.

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 08:12 AM
Labour's still in the news this morning, with plenty of positive feedback about their accelerated Auckland light rail plans.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1708/S00178/auckland-chamber-on-labour-transport-policy.htm?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Monday+7+Au gust+2017

Funding it partly through a local fuel levy makes plenty of sense, judging from the number of cars up there, it won't need much per litre.


How long before EVs hit 60% of new car sales? Maybe five years at the outside, and a lot sooner if battery technology lifts in the next one or two years. ICE vehicles will certainly lose their appeal soon.

winner69
07-08-2017, 08:41 AM
From Here to Ardernity

Sounds good

BlackPeter
07-08-2017, 09:05 AM
From Here to Adhernity

Sounds good

Wouldn't it be Ardernity?

Interesting note - the duration of the reign of recent Labour leaders seems to be indirectly proportional to their quality. The better they are the earlier Labour tends to backstab them. Shearer is an outstanding example to prove this point.

So, I guess we can't have both - a Labour Leader who is good and who at the same time sticks around for a long time. We will find out into which category Jacinda falls.

Discl: haven't yet made up my mind on Jacinda yet, but she certainly is a fresh face. The question is - will she be able to control the backwards looking unions and the ultra left ideologists in her party? Her only chance to govern would be if she is embracing the political centre. Not holding my breath ...

winner69
07-08-2017, 09:13 AM
Kelvin's name calling of Nats not positive

Needs reining in does Kelvin