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Major von Tempsky
04-01-2018, 02:53 PM
I expect NZ First to drift down below 5% then it will all be a different ball game :-)

Aaron
06-02-2020, 07:41 AM
Looks like National is not only the Chinese party but the immigration party as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unhappy-indian-voters-eye-shift-to-national/ar-BBZGBKI?ocid=spartanntp

iceman
06-02-2020, 08:05 AM
Looks like National is not only the Chinese party but the immigration party as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unhappy-indian-voters-eye-shift-to-national/ar-BBZGBKI?ocid=spartanntp

Not really that suprising as these recent immigrants are largely hard working people that just want to get on with it and very likely that most of them don't want Winnie near the Government controls. Having said that, I think National should be very careful not to promise to change the new immigration law that so upsets the Indian community. I don't think arranged marriages where the woman often has no say in the decision, should be allowed in NZ

Balance
06-02-2020, 02:16 PM
Looks like National is not only the Chinese party but the immigration party as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unhappy-indian-voters-eye-shift-to-national/ar-BBZGBKI?ocid=spartanntp

And why not?

https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/benefit/latest-quarterly-results/all-main-benefits.html

Beneficiaries under Labour keep growing so who's doing the hard work in the country to feed the tens of thousands of state beneficiaries who choose NOT to work?

fungus pudding
06-02-2020, 03:19 PM
Not really that suprising as these recent immigrants are largely hard working people that just want to get on with it and very likely that most of them don't want Winnie near the Government controls. Having said that, I think National should be very careful not to promise to change the new immigration law that so upsets the Indian community. I don't think arranged marriages where the woman often has no say in the decision, should be allowed in NZ

That's very sexist. What about the poor **** bridegroom? :scared:

artemis
06-02-2020, 03:20 PM
I expect NZ First to drift down below 5% then it will all be a different ball game :-)

Unless Mr Jones takes Northland. Kingmakers again unless Labour and Greens can form a government. Mr Peters came close in Northland in 2017.

Timesurfer
06-02-2020, 03:26 PM
Unless Mr Jones takes Northland. Kingmakers again unless Labour and Greens can form a government. Mr Peters came close in Northland in 2017.
And how many billion do they have to spend there to take it legitimately right?

iceman
06-02-2020, 07:49 PM
That's very sexist. What about the poor **** bridegroom? :scared:

Purely based on a personal observation of this happening close to me last year where the groom had a say but the bride had no say and no choice. I thought it was awful and totally against New Zealand values.

iceman
06-02-2020, 07:53 PM
Unless Mr Jones takes Northland. Kingmakers again unless Labour and Greens can form a government. Mr Peters came close in Northland in 2017.

Of course it is possible that Jacinda panics closer to the election and tries to gift Northland to Jones. Not sure how that would go down with the Greens though who surely will be demanding a lot more say should she get another term as PM than just being taken for granted like lapdogs like they have been this term. Would also say loud and clear to conservative voters that a vote for Winnie is a vote for the Greens.

fungus pudding
06-02-2020, 08:15 PM
And how many billion do they have to spend there to take it legitimately right?

That won't worry them. It's only the consolidated fund (read taxpayers) that will suffer.

Joshuatree
19-02-2020, 03:40 PM
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/1037...party-revealed (https://www.interest.co.nz/news/103719/three-four-people-facing-sfo-charges-over-200k-donations-made-national-party-revealed)

$200,000 over two years, the Chinese govt funding National.

winner69
19-02-2020, 04:26 PM
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/1037...party-revealed (https://www.interest.co.nz/news/103719/three-four-people-facing-sfo-charges-over-200k-donations-made-national-party-revealed)

$200,000 over two years, the Chinese govt funding National.

Wonder who they funding now?

Joshuatree
19-02-2020, 05:28 PM
Same horse,same race:-)

fungus pudding
22-05-2020, 12:42 PM
Good to see change of Leader for National. In spite of Simon Bridges' undoubted abilities and hard work, he was never going to make P.M. Life is cruel and he just did not have the X factor. Muller is a great orator, and hopefully will make an impression in the short time up to the election. It will be a rocky-ride for both parties up till September elections.

Balance
22-05-2020, 12:48 PM
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/1037...party-revealed (https://www.interest.co.nz/news/103719/three-four-people-facing-sfo-charges-over-200k-donations-made-national-party-revealed)

$200,000 over two years, the Chinese govt funding National.

Nothing compared to who have been funding Winston & NZF, and getting favours a plenty from them.

Balance
22-05-2020, 12:50 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12334016

An excellent start.

There is only Team National and policies are to benefit all New Zealanders, not just the beneficiaries which St Cindy & her incompetents are hell bent on growing & cultivating for votes.

Panda-NZ-
22-05-2020, 01:28 PM
Paul Goldsmith still the alternative finance minister. ick. The new leader seems ok we'll see.

Hopefully they can deliver an example of a policy soon rather than a monolouge. Winston could make him pm maybe some here would like that.

artemis
22-05-2020, 03:05 PM
Paul Goldsmith still the alternative finance minister. icky. The leader seems ok.

Hopefully they can deliver an example of a policy soon rather than a monolouge.

There are a whole lot of policy proposals published by National, most detailed and most asking for feedback. Some policies have been announced. If you are not aware then you haven't looked.

Balance
22-05-2020, 03:11 PM
There are a whole lot of policy proposals published by National, most detailed and most asking for feedback. Some policies have been announced. If you are not aware then you haven't looked.

Don’t expect Panda-NZ to understand the policies. He does not know a wage subsidy from wages paid, and how the subsidy does not go to the business.

Balance
22-05-2020, 03:13 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12334074

A good speech from Simon. A good man but he is not the right person as National Party leader.

Onwards and forwards for him - there is plenty of time ahead for him.

macduffy
22-05-2020, 03:46 PM
Yes, well said by Simon - but the change will give National a boost and a chance to claw back some ground.

winner69
23-05-2020, 02:17 AM
The Todd look a like probably won’t lead National now

Spose Chris committed to continue with his efforts to win Botany

ynot
23-05-2020, 08:03 AM
Status quo for Winston. He can't loose under MMP. As much as I dislike him I would be happy to see him back National. Anything to remove Ardern.

Balance
23-05-2020, 08:12 AM
I thought Todd came across really well in the various interviews last night - confident, quick, clear minded and humorous. Great credentials too - excellent business background.

Or is it because Simon was so bad?

winner69
23-05-2020, 08:57 AM
Is that guy Hooton going to be Muller’s Chief of Staff?

winner69
23-05-2020, 08:58 AM
Whose Hamish Price?

fungus pudding
23-05-2020, 09:31 AM
Is that guy Hooton going to be Muller’s Chief of Staff?

That is confidential.

And Google will tell you about Hamish Price.

ynot
23-05-2020, 10:45 AM
I thought Todd came across really well in the various interviews last night - confident, quick, clear minded and humorous. Great credentials too - excellent business background.

Or is it because Simon was so bad?

I think all of the above !

fungus pudding
23-05-2020, 11:05 AM
I thought Todd came across really well in the various interviews last night - confident, quick, clear minded and humorous. Great credentials too - excellent business background.

Or is it because Simon was so bad?

Yes. That's pretty much it. Simon is undoubtedly clever and has plenty to offer - but lacking in charisma to appeal as leader - particularly following years of Key, then Jacinda. Both brilliant bringing NZ to world attention. Muller will be fine - not quite so sure about Goldsmith as finance minister. Excellent fellow, but might not be the best slot for him. Will soon know. And it's about time David Seymour accepted a portfolio. That is assuming Labour get booted out - a distinct possibility.

blackcap
23-05-2020, 11:48 AM
That is assuming Labour get booted out - a distinct possibility.

I hope so but the market totally disagrees with you. National according to the market now are a 1 in 7 chance. I managed to pick up some 8.00 on National overnight. If you want to make some money.. betfair.com and you can bet/invest on the NZ election. You can also make millions by going against Trump if you are so convinced... you can back anyone but Trump to be next president at about $1.90.

ynot
23-05-2020, 11:54 AM
I hope so but the market totally disagrees with you. National according to the market now are a 1 in 7 chance. I managed to pick up some 8.00 on National overnight. If you want to make some money.. betfair.com and you can bet/invest on the NZ election. You can also make millions by going against Trump if you are so convinced... you can back anyone but Trump to be next president at about $1.90.

4 months is a long time when staring down the barrel of depression.

Panda-NZ-
23-05-2020, 11:57 AM
All that has to be done is to compare the two parties. If the opposition are not any better then there's no point being that enthused about them. they can't change the fundamental aspects of this situation.

blackcap
23-05-2020, 12:05 PM
4 months is a long time when staring down the barrel of depression.

Agree, a week is a long time in politics. That is why I took some of the 8's on offer.

ynot
23-05-2020, 12:10 PM
All that has to be done is to compare the two parties. If the opposition are not any better then there's no point being that enthused about them. they can't change the fundamental aspects of this situation.

Labour could dig us a fairly large hole given the purse strings for another 3 years.

Panda-NZ-
23-05-2020, 12:13 PM
Labour could dig us a fairly large hole given the purse strings for another 3 years.

Cool, so what are the policies to address it? They want to increase the deficit even more so far. Again, picking between two imperfect alternatives.

winner69
23-05-2020, 01:47 PM
That is confidential.

And Google will tell you about Hamish Price.

Jeez, it is confidential ...I’ll withdraw the speculation that hooton is working for Muller:D:ohmy:

fungus pudding
23-05-2020, 01:53 PM
Jeez, it is confidential ...I’ll withdraw the speculation that hooton is working for Muller:D:ohmy:

That is a highly unusual display of wisdom from you.

Balance
23-05-2020, 02:21 PM
Labour could dig us a fairly large hole given the purse strings for another 3 years.

Exactly - quality of spending is so critical in the next 3 years - where, how and who to spend the billions of dollars of budget deficits on.

We know Labour will continue to squander the opportunities to spend wisely and effectively so let's see what plans Todd & National come up with in the next 4 months.

One thing for sure - Todd will get a decent hearing while as the public had given up on Simon.

Jury is still out.

ynot
23-05-2020, 02:28 PM
Exactly - quality of spending is so critical in the next 3 years - where, how and who to spend the billions of dollars of budget deficits on.

We know Labour will continue to squander the opportunities to spend wisely and effectively so let's see what plans Todd & National come up with in the next 4 months.

One thing for sure - Todd will get a decent hearing while as the public had given up on Simon.

Jury is still out.

There is a possibility the state of the nation may not quite be up to neck in dodo in 4 months but my guess is we'll be in enough strife by then for most punters to get the picture.

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 08:11 AM
There is a possibility the state of the nation may not quite be up to neck in dodo in 4 months but my guess is we'll be in enough strife by then for most punters to get the picture.

Muller was quite interesting on the Nation yesterday. Repeated this morning on Channel 3 and 3+1.

Sir Ten
24-05-2020, 11:08 AM
Muller was quite interesting on the Nation yesterday. Repeated this morning on Channel 3 and 3+1.

Thanks for the prompt FP - an interesting interview. I watched it a couple of times. Second time around, I only watched Simon Shepherd - I don't think he truly listened to any of Muller's responses. Bunch of cliche segways between a list of questions intended to undermine any attempt by Muller/National to challenge the status quo... so just the usual I guess.

I thought Muller's inaugural speech on Friday was promising. As you'd expect, he was well prepared. However, I do worry that the constant and repetitive questioning from the media about his personal views on topics like abortion, gay marriage etc. will provide a barrage of sound bites intended scare voters away from supporting National for fear of being accused of supporting said personal views. I thought his response to such questions on Friday were well handled by referring to Nikki Kaye's more progressive stance, but at the end of the day, he is the leader and we all know how important a leader's views, allocution, smile, looks and references to Easter Bunny are... unfortunately trivial things like policies, experience, execution and team don't matter to the majority at the moment (although I expect that to change when the inevitable tax increases are floated, however this will be post-election once we're staring down the barrel of 3 more years)

The way in which the question around the 4m10s mark is asked is comical but worrying in its implication (i.e. that National has some sort of a problem with women)... "Is it that the National party just can not handle having a female leader... you've only had one in your history?". Prior to Cindy, Labour had had only one female leader as well? Quite sad how gender has become the first major focus of any candidate's suitability for key roles within politics and business.

Muller has his work cut out for him. Poor polling, a voting public that appears naive to the fact that smiles and good vibes won't pay the bills and a media unwilling or unable to hold the current Government to account.

Look forward to watching it all play out.

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the prompt FP - an interesting interview. I watched it a couple of times. Second time around, I only watched Simon Shepherd - I don't think he truly listened to any of Muller's responses. Bunch of cliche segways between a list of questions intended to undermine any attempt by Muller/National to challenge the status quo... so just the usual I guess.

I thought Muller's inaugural speech on Friday was promising. As you'd expect, he was well prepared. However, I do worry that the constant and repetitive questioning from the media about his personal views on topics like abortion, gay marriage etc. will provide a barrage of sound bites intended scare voters away from supporting National for fear of being accused of supporting said personal views. I thought his response to such questions on Friday were well handled by referring to Nikki Kaye's more progressive stance, but at the end of the day, he is the leader and we all know how important a leader's views, allocution, smile, looks and references to Easter Bunny are... unfortunately trivial things like policies, experience, execution and team don't matter to the majority at the moment (although I expect that to change when the inevitable tax increases are floated, however this will be post-election once we're staring down the barrel of 3 more years)

The way in which the question around the 4m10s mark is asked is comical but worrying in its implication (i.e. that National has some sort of a problem with women)... "Is it that the National party just can not handle having a female leader... you've only had one in your history?". Prior to Cindy, Labour had had only one female leader as well? Quite sad how gender has become the first major focus of any candidate's suitability for key roles within politics and business.

Muller has his work cut out for him. Poor polling, a voting public that appears naive to the fact that smiles and good vibes won't pay the bills and a media unwilling or unable to hold the current Government to account.

Look forward to watching it all play out.

I agree - promises to be the most interesting election since 1984. (Muldoon's Schnapps election)

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/barry-soper-35-years-later-behind-the-scenes-of-robert-muldoons-snap-election/

Of course this was back in the days of First past the post, not MPP; but Bob Jones' NZ Party made it interesting and great entertainment.
This coming one will be just as interesting, although for quite different reasons and not as entertaining

artemis
24-05-2020, 12:04 PM
National only needs a decent lift in the party vote for Mr Muller to stay in the top party job. That seems probable, and would have been the case under Mr Bridges' leadership as well.

artemis
24-05-2020, 12:05 PM
Duplicated post

Sir Ten
24-05-2020, 12:21 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018747615

Lisa Owen asked Muller whether Nikki was better placed to be leader - no mention of gender... there is hope.

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 12:24 PM
National only needs a decent lift in the party vote for Mr Muller to stay in the top party job. That seems probable, and would have been the case under Mr Bridges' leadership as well.

Could you explain 'top party job'?

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 12:25 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018747615

Lisa Owen asked Muller whether Nikki was better placed to be leader - no mention of gender... there is hope.

? Hope for what?

Sir Ten
24-05-2020, 02:03 PM
? Hope for what?

Journalism... maybe I'm the naive one

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 02:25 PM
Journalism... maybe I'm the naive one

Seems a dopey question. Doesn't demonstrate hope for anything.

Sir Ten
24-05-2020, 03:35 PM
Seems a dopey question. Doesn't demonstrate hope for anything.

Why do you say that? Before Friday, I had barely heard of Muller.

The question as to whether Nikki Kaye would have been a better leader seems a good one, so long as that proposition it isn't premised purely on her sex.

fungus pudding
24-05-2020, 03:38 PM
Why do you say that? Before Friday, I had barely heard of Muller.

The question as to whether Nikki Kaye would have been a better leader seems a good one, so long as that proposition it isn't premised purely on her sex.

It just seems a silly question to ask Muller. What did she expect him to reply!

winner69
24-05-2020, 03:51 PM
Seems I was wrong with that speculation Hooton being MuLler’s CoS

fungus pudding
16-05-2021, 05:38 PM
It's high time Judith Collins was replaced. Latest poll has her out the door anyway, so get on with it National.

Baa_Baa
16-05-2021, 07:01 PM
It's high time Judith Collins was replaced. Latest poll has her out the door anyway, so get on with it National.

Replaced by who? That’s the problem.

fungus pudding
16-05-2021, 07:05 PM
Replaced by who? That’s the problem.

No it's not.

dobby41
17-05-2021, 04:31 PM
Judith does it again - playing the divisive politics game and getting the facts wrong.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125145942/ngi-tahu-accuses-national-leader-of-seeking-headlines-over-water-reform-comments

iceman
17-05-2021, 08:50 PM
It's high time Judith Collins was replaced. Latest poll has her out the door anyway, so get on with it National.

Agree. She was always going to be short term to fill a void before the election. They need to get on with it. I suspect we will see Chris Luxon and I would like to see Nicola Willis as Deputy but suspect Louise Upston will be preferred. Other rising influencers are Chris Bishop and Erica Stanford. Should they go with Luxon & Willis, they need to make sure they surround and back them up with lots of experience.
The finance spokesman Andrew Bayly is very able but very dissapointed in his silence since the election. He may be too nice for this portfolio. Same goes for Reti in Health. Lots of opportunities to attack the Government on their bad management of finances and health. Where are they ?

Panda-NZ-
18-05-2021, 04:24 AM
If National does better then Dave won't be able to bring along any mates if labour removes the coatails rule.

Act's fate is entirely in Mrs Ardern's hands lol.

iceman
18-05-2021, 07:34 AM
If National does better then Dave won't be able to bring along any mates if labour removes the coatails rule.

Act's fate is entirely in Mrs Ardern's hands lol.

Did I miss her wedding ? Damn that would have been so exciting :-(

Panda-NZ-
18-05-2021, 07:56 AM
It'll be just in time for the next election with the appropriate media coverage :)

fungus pudding
18-05-2021, 09:25 AM
Did I miss her wedding ? Damn that would have been so exciting :-(

I see Mr. Adern still calls himself Gayford.

iceman
18-05-2021, 10:27 AM
It'll be just in time for the next election with the appropriate media coverage :)

Hopefully they've booked a babysitter, so a bit of fun can be had. They deserve it.

Blue Skies
30-05-2021, 02:10 PM
Geepers, National's David Bennett states he supports Australia's 501 policy. What next, National's all over the place on policy. What the heck do they stand for at the moment!
This recent 501 case of a man who was brought up & lived in Australia since childhood, has a severe psychiatric illness, all his family & support live in Australia, being sent back to NZ where he has no family & knows no one is cruel, shameful & an absolute disgrace.
And National support this policy? I'ld love someone to ask Judith Collins what the parties standpoint on this is.
And Australia lectures China on human rights.

tim23
08-06-2021, 09:09 PM
Geepers, National's David Bennett states he supports Australia's 501 policy. What next, National's all over the place on policy. What the heck do they stand for at the moment!
This recent 501 case of a man who was brought up & lived in Australia since childhood, has a severe psychiatric illness, all his family & support live in Australia, being sent back to NZ where he has no family & knows no one is cruel, shameful & an absolute disgrace.
And National support this policy? I'ld love someone to ask Judith Collins what the parties standpoint on this is.
And Australia lectures China on human rights.

Australia are bullies, simple really.

dobby41
09-06-2021, 08:19 AM
Geepers, National's David Bennett states he supports Australia's 501 policy. What next, National's all over the place on policy. What the heck do they stand for at the moment!.

Seems Paul Goldsmith thinks colonisation was a good thing.
He doesn't seem to have a lot of support from the team but they probably just aren't willing to say what they really believe.

They say things have to get worse before they get better - National are still on the worse trajectory.

winner69
09-06-2021, 08:28 AM
Seems Paul Goldsmith thinks colonisation was a good thing.
He doesn't seem to have a lot of support from the team but they probably just aren't willing to say what they really believe.

They say things have to get worse before they get better - National are still on the worse trajectory.

What Goldsmith said wasn't taken on board by those with political agendas

I think what he was saying that if NZ (and Australia) hadn't been 'colonised' as we know it they would not have been as 'well off' as other Pacific nations that were basically governed/controlled from abroad.

Michael Reddell has an interesting chart highlighting this

dobby41
09-06-2021, 09:30 AM
What Goldsmith said wasn't taken on board by those with political agendas

I think what he was saying that if NZ (and Australia) hadn't been 'colonised' as we know it they would not have been as 'well off' as other Pacific nations that were basically governed/controlled from abroad.

Michael Reddell has an interesting chart highlighting this

The problem is that 'well off' is relative to who is creating the measure.
GDP/capita isn't the only measure of wealth - expecially if you are at the bottom of the pile.

I understand his message - is it one that the Party wants to push?

iceman
09-06-2021, 11:51 AM
What Goldsmith said wasn't taken on board by those with political agendas

I think what he was saying that if NZ (and Australia) hadn't been 'colonised' as we know it they would not have been as 'well off' as other Pacific nations that were basically governed/controlled from abroad.

Michael Reddell has an interesting chart highlighting this

I listened to what he said a few times and his words have been taken totally out of context and blown up by the woke media and political agendas. The cancel culture is very well here in NZ at the moment and Collins was pathetic not to support him.

dobby41
09-06-2021, 12:27 PM
I listened to what he said a few times and his words have been taken totally out of context and blown up by the woke media and political agendas. The cancel culture is very well here in NZ at the moment and Collins was pathetic not to support him.

His words, blown up or otherwise, are not accepted by his colleagues.

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2021, 01:05 PM
Australia are bullies, simple really.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-update-melbourne-mourners-caught-sneaking-into-new-zealand/CKVGGMVY67UEWKA44Z5JZGU3FQ/

Aussies are like herding cats.. putting NZers health at risk.

dobby41
09-06-2021, 01:46 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-update-melbourne-mourners-caught-sneaking-into-new-zealand/CKVGGMVY67UEWKA44Z5JZGU3FQ/

Aussies are like herding cats.. and putting NZers health at risk.

To be expected - trust-based systems are difficult and people reckoned we should have had a bubble earlier.

Panda-NZ-
21-06-2021, 05:15 PM
Winston peters call National a bunch of "sex maniacs":

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125506478/nz-first-leader-winston-peters-describes-national-party-as-sex-maniacs

Maybe hes choosing to go after what's left of the national party vote.

dobby41
23-06-2021, 09:38 AM
National goes from worse to worse.
Someone buying furniture for the house on the tax payer's slate?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-mp-parliamentary-service-silent-on-allegations-of-misuse-of-taxpayers-money/XUGZTP6FCZ5MYCBC6PBLJZ6U34/

Sources inside the National Party have told NZME that a staff member of the MP flagged a concern in the last term of Parliament, alleging items of furniture were bought out of the MP's taxpayer funds but did not appear in the office.

Zaphod
23-06-2021, 11:09 AM
National goes from worse to worse.
Someone buying furniture for the house on the tax payer's slate?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-mp-parliamentary-service-silent-on-allegations-of-misuse-of-taxpayers-money/XUGZTP6FCZ5MYCBC6PBLJZ6U34/

National goes from worse to worse? I must have missed the part in the article where allegations of misuse were substantiated.

Zaphod
23-06-2021, 11:15 AM
Former National Party leader Todd Muller to retire at next election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-national-party-leader-todd-muller-to-retire-at-next-election/35S2AERVDFM4HMFULCPX5TDDFI/

A very good idea for all concerned.

fungus pudding
23-06-2021, 11:20 AM
Former National Party leader Todd Muller to retire at next election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-national-party-leader-todd-muller-to-retire-at-next-election/35S2AERVDFM4HMFULCPX5TDDFI/

A very good idea for all concerned.

T'would be even better if he took his replacement leader with him.

Zaphod
23-06-2021, 02:16 PM
T'would be even better if he took his replacement leader with him.

That's a bit harsh isn't it FP? He's delivered in line with the track record on Kiwibuild, so shouldn't he receive a promotion? Perhaps to (borrowing from the Greens) Co-Prime Minister?

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 02:30 PM
Dobby

National goes from worse to worse.
Someone buying furniture for the house on the tax payer's slate?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nation...CBC6PBLJZ6U34/ (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-mp-parliamentary-service-silent-on-allegations-of-misuse-of-taxpayers-money/XUGZTP6FCZ5MYCBC6PBLJZ6U34/)

Only paid for it when she was exposed and forced to.

"The allegations surround a purchase of some furniture, including a new television, which allegedly were delivered and kept in Hipango's own home." J Collins "Some of it was something she could not actually claim for and therefore she had to repay it herself."

National's Harete Hipango revealed as MP accused of inappropriate spending (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-mp-who-faced-allegations-of-inappropriate-spending-revealed-as-harete-hipango/264EPI5TUX6BATFFOQSNTY3LNU/)

dobby41
23-06-2021, 02:33 PM
National goes from worse to worse? I must have missed the part in the article where allegations of misuse were substantiated.

There's your answer from Joshuatree.
She's a list MP - shows the quality of their list.

Zaphod
23-06-2021, 03:38 PM
There's your answer from Joshuatree.
She's a list MP - shows the quality of their list.

[From the newly posted non-paywalled article] "Collins said Hipango had stored some in a shed at home, some went into one of her electorate offices, and Hipango paid for some of it herself to keep."

Some of items she purchased were above the funding cap though, and she purchased a sofa for her office in parliament, but was told to return it as parliament provides all furniture.

The article also states she used her own furniture from home in her electorate office! Oh dear!

Overall a bit naïve, but nothing obviously fraudulent there. What did I miss?

Balance
23-06-2021, 04:18 PM
[From the newly posted non-paywalled article] "Collins said Hipango had stored some in a shed at home, some went into one of her electorate offices, and Hipango paid for some of it herself to keep."

Some of items she purchased were above the funding cap though, and she purchased a sofa for her office in parliament, but was told to return it as parliament provides all furniture.

The article also states she used her own furniture from home in her electorate office! Oh dear!

Overall a bit naïve, but nothing obviously fraudulent there. What did I miss?

You missed the $300k+ paid by taxpayers to defend Trevor Mallard for knifing an innocent man in the back.

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 04:29 PM
National's Harete Hipango revealed as MP accused of inappropriate spending (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-mp-who-faced-allegations-of-inappropriate-spending-revealed-as-harete-hipango/264EPI5TUX6BATFFOQSNTY3LNU/)


Theft, snouting ,ripping off, self entitlement but she got caught.

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 04:30 PM
You missed the $300k+ paid by taxpayers to defend Trevor Mallard for knifing an innocent man in the back.

Far from innocent imo unless you support men treating women like that. Mallard thought he was doing the right thing , and he was but to a lesser degree.

dobby41
23-06-2021, 04:34 PM
[From the newly posted non-paywalled article] "Collins said Hipango had stored some in a shed at home, some went into one of her electorate offices, and Hipango paid for some of it herself to keep."

Some of items she purchased were above the funding cap though, and she purchased a sofa for her office in parliament, but was told to return it as parliament provides all furniture.

The article also states she used her own furniture from home in her electorate office! Oh dear!

Overall a bit naïve, but nothing obviously fraudulent there. What did I miss?

There's a Tui ad in the making!

dobby41
23-06-2021, 04:35 PM
You missed the $300k+ paid by taxpayers to defend Trevor Mallard for knifing an innocent man in the back.

Or the $300k Todd will earn while doing nothing but filling a space.

dobby41
23-06-2021, 04:36 PM
Former National Party leader Todd Muller to retire at next election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-national-party-leader-todd-muller-to-retire-at-next-election/35S2AERVDFM4HMFULCPX5TDDFI/

A very good idea for all concerned.

Very good except he stays for a few years drawing his salary and expenses.

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 04:39 PM
Yes snouting again.I have empathy for him taking time off to support his wife but he should do the decent thing by resigning and hopefully letting in some new blood to start a rebuild of this rotten self entitled party. What havoc he has triggered for his party .

777
23-06-2021, 05:03 PM
Why should he go early? He was duly elected by Tauranga voters only 7 months ago. He represents them and should continue.

Zaphod
23-06-2021, 05:04 PM
There's a Tui ad in the making!

That's quite ironic given your stance on similar aspersions on Labour party members, especially Jacinda. You don't require evidence of wrong doing, but we do?

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 07:16 PM
Especially Jacinda?.Put it up on the Labour thread.Stop deflecting.

Balance
23-06-2021, 07:35 PM
Far from innocent imo unless you support men treating women like that. Mallard thought he was doing the right thing , and he was but to a lesser degree.

Doing the right thing? Is that how pathetically low into the sewage pond you are going to smear an innocent man who Mallard accused of rape?

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 08:09 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/parliamentary-service-boss-refuses-to-settle-employment-dispute-with-man-speaker-mallard-accused-of-rape/LYVLSOQMKD2BV67LZTHYJFKH34/?ref=readmore

Balance
23-06-2021, 08:35 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/parliamentary-service-boss-refuses-to-settle-employment-dispute-with-man-speaker-mallard-accused-of-rape/LYVLSOQMKD2BV67LZTHYJFKH34/?ref=readmore

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trevor-mallard-apologises-for-accusing-parliamentary-staffer-of-rape/EO7VZ74CHYC5S3C42RTPDRJW5Y/

Stop digging when you are in a hole - be a good boy and climb out of the sewage pond. Best you leave the stench to Trevor.

Joshuatree
23-06-2021, 09:47 PM
Keep digging bud.

Balance
23-06-2021, 09:49 PM
Keep digging bud.

Will do as the well water is clean. And refreshing!

Meanwhile, how’s the sewage pond you are in with your mate Trevor?

iceman
24-06-2021, 09:32 AM
Why should he go early? He was duly elected by Tauranga voters only 7 months ago. He represents them and should continue.

Exactly. There will be several MPs that will not be planning to stand at the next election. Doesn't mean they shouldn't complete the current term that they have been elected to !!

Joshuatree
24-06-2021, 09:45 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/parliamentary-service-boss-refuses-to-settle-employment-dispute-with-man-speaker-mallard-accused-of-rape/LYVLSOQMKD2BV67LZTHYJFKH34/?ref=readmore

Parliamentary Service chief executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero was interrogated about the case by National MPs at a select committee meeting this morning and said he refused to settle with the man.

"I am not willing to settle with anybody that I believe has done something wrong. If we get taken to court and we lose, I'd rather lose because we've done the right thing."

It's understood mediation in the case has failed and it's now up to the man whether he takes his case to the Employment Court.

Joshuatree
24-06-2021, 09:54 AM
Exactly. There will be several MPs that will not be planning to stand at the next election. Doesn't mean they shouldn't complete the current term that they have been elected to !!

I can't see him representing them in all but a token way though,going through the motions but At the same time rebuilding, planning for after(that's human nature),enriching himself elsewhere on taxpayer dollars and more family time .Some think he may have been pushed.He sure was the domino that started nationals inevitable collapse.New well vetted blood urgently required right now.

fungus pudding
24-06-2021, 10:00 AM
Parliamentary Service chief executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero was interrogated about the case by National MPs at a select committee meeting this morning and said he refused to settle with the man.

"I am not willing to settle with anybody that I believe has done something wrong. If we get taken to court and we lose, I'd rather lose because we've done the right thing."

It's understood mediation in the case has failed and it's now up to the man whether he takes his case to the Employment Court.

We do not know what happened, but we know it was not rape. Mallard got off scott free for smacking his gums about in a very loose manner. Slander or defamation would almost certainly apply outside of parliament.

iceman
24-06-2021, 10:00 AM
Parliamentary Service chief executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero was interrogated about the case by National MPs at a select committee meeting this morning and said he refused to settle with the man.

"I am not willing to settle with anybody that I believe has done something wrong. If we get taken to court and we lose, I'd rather lose because we've done the right thing."

It's understood mediation in the case has failed and it's now up to the man whether he takes his case to the Employment Court.

The bullying in Mallard's department continues. "BE KIND". Yeah Right

iceman
24-06-2021, 10:01 AM
Parliamentary Service chief executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero was interrogated about the case by National MPs at a select committee meeting this morning and said he refused to settle with the man.

"I am not willing to settle with anybody that I believe has done something wrong. If we get taken to court and we lose, I'd rather lose because we've done the right thing."

It's understood mediation in the case has failed and it's now up to the man whether he takes his case to the Employment Court.

The bullying in Mallard's department continues. "BE KIND". Yeah Right

Baa_Baa
24-06-2021, 10:14 AM
Parliamentary Service chief executive Rafael Gonzalez-Montero was interrogated about the case by National MPs at a select committee meeting this morning and said he refused to settle with the man.

"I am not willing to settle with anybody that I believe has done something wrong. If we get taken to court and we lose, I'd rather lose because we've done the right thing."

It's understood mediation in the case has failed and it's now up to the man whether he takes his case to the Employment Court.

'Raff' as he's known, in his CEO capacity of Parliamentary Service and employer of the wrongly accused, directly reports to the Speaker of the House, which is ... you know who. Surely there is a conflict here?

Joshuatree
24-06-2021, 11:03 AM
Maybe but there sure is smoke.

Balance
24-06-2021, 12:02 PM
Maybe but there sure is smoke.

Yup - of the type that the woke inclined have been smoking.

Panda-NZ-
24-06-2021, 02:49 PM
The bullying in Mallard's department continues. "BE KIND". Yeah Right

Her majesty Judith comes across as a bit of a bully you're right.

Joshuatree
26-06-2021, 09:12 PM
Yup - of the type that the woke inclined have been smoking.

So you are supporting the guys word over 3 women's ,I'm not surprised in the least,you have form there in your attitude towards women,especially our STRONG prime minister.Kudos to Mallard looking for justice for those women .

Balance
27-06-2021, 08:41 AM
So you are supporting the guys word over 3 women's ,I'm not surprised in the least,you have form there in your attitude towards women,especially our STRONG prime minister.Kudos to Mallard looking for justice for those women .

Unadulterated garbage about strong PM. This is a grubby woman giving in to everything to her Maori caucus & MPs so she can stay in power.

ynot
27-06-2021, 09:26 AM
Unadulterated garbage about strong PM. This is a grubby woman giving in to everything to her Maori caucus & MPs so she can stay in power.
On this I agree with you totally. Anyone who can not see what's going on here is blind or stupid.

tim23
27-06-2021, 08:20 PM
On this I agree with you totally. Anyone who can not see what's going on here is blind or stupid.

I'm neither but you may be with a comment like that!

Panda-NZ-
03-07-2021, 10:08 PM
Some half-decent words from simon on one the best finance ministers NZ has had:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/michael-cullens-last-testament

He seems to be talking more about the real issues these days which is nice.

Should have done more of that rather than go on tax cuts, "the economy" and practically nothing else.

Blue Skies
08-07-2021, 05:01 PM
Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse, wonder if todays UMR poll will mean another leadership change and calls for Simon Bridges to be brought back in caretaker role.
Caucus putting on a brave face but must be tearing itself apart.

fungus pudding
08-07-2021, 05:17 PM
Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse, wonder if todays UMR poll will mean another leadership change and calls for Simon Bridges to be brought back in caretaker role.
Caucus putting on a brave face but must be tearing itself apart.

I'm here to help.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unprecedented-poll-result-as-act-leader-david-seymour-overtakes-national-leader-judith-collins-in-new-umr-poll/PYCCGTEATQBHI3DRX766MSGITQ/

fungus pudding
08-07-2021, 05:17 PM
Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse, wonder if todays UMR poll will mean another leadership change and calls for Simon Bridges to be brought back in caretaker role.
Caucus putting on a brave face but must be tearing itself apart.

I'm here to help.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unprec...3DRX766MSGITQ/

Joshuatree
08-07-2021, 05:22 PM
Link Blue Skies, Link. Who is surprised! Collins is an antiquated matriarch old school matron cannibal squid model imo stuck in the distant muldoon era. Bring back Buck, I mean simon,im sure he's learnt not to diss Jacinda at the wrong time:).

NZ Herald.'Unprecedented' poll result as Act leader David Seymour overtakes National leader Judith Collins in new UMR poll.2 hours ago (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjq-ui56dLxAhW5gtgFHcI0DAUQ0PADegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzherald.co.nz%2Fnz%2Funprec edented-poll-result-as-act-leader-david-seymour-overtakes-national-leader-judith-collins-in-new-umr-poll%2FPYCCGTEATQBHI3DRX766MSGITQ%2F&usg=AOvVaw1594O_cAcMAF9dtcPKjZZX)

Bjauck
08-07-2021, 06:24 PM
I'm here to help.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unprec...3DRX766MSGITQ/ LOL I like it. Calls for Bridges to return linked to a very appropriate 404 Page of Doom!

dobby41
28-07-2021, 08:21 AM
Judith at it again.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/judith-collins-slates-suhayra-aden-s-return-from-death-cult-says-media-will-try-to-turn-her-into-a-martyr.html

Not happy about the woman coming back from Syria.
No idea what she would have done but have a rant anyway.
Playing to some sector of her dwindling support base.

Balance
28-07-2021, 08:31 AM
Judith at it again.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/judith-collins-slates-suhayra-aden-s-return-from-death-cult-says-media-will-try-to-turn-her-into-a-martyr.html

Not happy about the woman coming back from Syria.
No idea what she would have done but have a rant anyway.
Playing to some sector of her dwindling support base.

Simple - revoke the woman's citizenship like Australia and let Australia sort out the mess.

This kindness BS that the likes of you swallow whole is going to make NZ one very sick society.

dobby41
28-07-2021, 11:08 AM
Simple - revoke the woman's citizenship like Australia and let Australia sort out the mess.

This kindness BS that the likes of you swallow whole is going to make NZ one very sick society.

She was born here and International law says you can't (you can't make a person stateless). The kids are Kiwis too because she is (was) when they were born.
Re Australia, she was given citizenship so they can take it away.
Not as simple as some simple people would like people to think.

Zaphod
28-07-2021, 12:32 PM
She was born here and International law says you can't (you can't make a person stateless). The kids are Kiwis too because she is (was) when they were born.
Re Australia, she was given citizenship so they can take it away.
Not as simple as some simple people would like people to think.

Citizenship can be revoked by the country of birth. Let's face it, we got 'owned' yet again. We know Australia's modus operandi in these situations. We could have revoked her citizenship before Australia did, but we didn't. Now we're stuck with a known associate of a terrorist organisation who hasn't lived in NZ since age six, along with her children. We now have a very expensive on-going security threat to deal with, that was made in Australia. Well done New Zealand.

Bjauck
28-07-2021, 12:53 PM
She was born here and International law says you can't (you can't make a person stateless). The kids are Kiwis too because she is (was) when they were born.
Re Australia, she was given citizenship so they can take it away.
Not as simple as some simple people would like people to think.

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has been given assurances from Australia that it won't "arbitrarily" cancel citizenship of those who are also New Zealand citizens, without first discussing it. "

Yeah, right!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/accused-terrorist-s-return-jacinda-ardern-given-assurances-from-australia-it-won-t-arbitrarily-cut-citizenship-in-future.html

Joshuatree
28-07-2021, 01:35 PM
We are a responsible country doing the right humane thing for a woman and her two childen.Aus is not, it has totally abandoned them, thats not a modern , civilised country. thats callous and cruelty.

Balance
28-07-2021, 01:38 PM
"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has been given assurances from Australia that it won't "arbitrarily" cancel citizenship of those who are also New Zealand citizens, without first discussing it. "

Yeah, right!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/accused-terrorist-s-return-jacinda-ardern-given-assurances-from-australia-it-won-t-arbitrarily-cut-citizenship-in-future.html

What happens when you have a BS & spin driven PM in NZ.

dobby41
28-07-2021, 01:51 PM
Citizenship can be revoked by the country of birth. Let's face it, we got 'owned' yet again. We know Australia's modus operandi in these situations. We could have revoked her citizenship before Australia did, but we didn't. Now we're stuck with a known associate of a terrorist organisation who hasn't lived in NZ since age six, along with her children. We now have a very expensive on-going security threat to deal with, that was made in Australia. Well done New Zealand.

How if that makes them stateless?
In 2006 NZ became a party to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness
We did so with the following statement
Declaration:
"[New Zealand] declares that in accordance with
paragraph 3 of article 8 of the Convention New Zealand
retains the right to deprive a person of his New Zealand
citizenship on the following grounds, being grounds
existing in New Zealand law at the present time:
the person has, while a New Zealand citizen and while
of or over the age of 18 years and of full capacity,
(a) Acquired the nationality or citizenship of another
country by any voluntary and formal act, and acted in a
manner that is contrary to the interests of New Zealand; or
(b) Voluntarily exercised any of the privileges or
performed any of the duties of another nationality or
citizenship possessed by him in a manner that is contrary
to the interests of New Zealand."

So we could have dropped her as a citizen if we had done it before Aussie but it is now too late under our law.

Australia never signed - they don't give a toss really.

dobby41
28-07-2021, 01:55 PM
What happens when you have a BS & spin driven PM in NZ.

She was given those assurances - they mean nothing but just what do you think she (or Judith) can do about it?

Let's face it, you, I and the Govt know that Aussie will discuss it but the discussion will go something like - "we are doing it, discussion over, get stuffed if you don't like it".

Zaphod
28-07-2021, 02:16 PM
How if that makes them stateless?

So we could have dropped her as a citizen if we had done it before Aussie but it is now too late under our law.

Exactly the point I was making, as per the quote below:


We know Australia's modus operandi in these situations. We could have revoked her citizenship before Australia did, but we didn't.

The consequence of the government's inaction is that we now must take the woman and her children. Outsmarted yet again by Australia.

Blue Skies
28-07-2021, 03:25 PM
Exactly the point I was making, as per the quote below:



The consequence of the government's inaction is that we now must take the woman and her children. Outsmarted yet again by Australia.



Before we (mostly) all rush to what seems to be the default outrage setting, just a quick cursory check shows there are 2 innocent vulnerable children being overlooked here, a 2year old and a 5 year old who are both NZ citizens.
I don't believe any decent person here would refuse to offer them refuge from the extreme trauma & suffering they must have experienced, even if they weren't NZ citizens.

So before we rage at the govt over another difficult & complex issue, we have a moral & a legal obligation to take this family back & its a real shame Judith Collins is so desperate she has to appeal to & exploit the worst traits in human nature, fear, anger, selfishness & ignorance to shore up her fading leadership. This is not the National Party of Bill English or John Key.

Further it appears the young mother a 19 year old at the time, on seeing first hand the reality didn't match the seductive recruitment propaganda, may have had second thoughts and attempted to pull out of crossing into Syria & return home, but was stymied by the group she was travelling with. I can understand that with a group as brutal as ISIS.

And really does anyone believe she & her 2 children pose more of a threat to NZ'ers than some of the anti-vaxers we find here or the gang members being sent back from Aussie ?
I don't think so.

Save your outrage for the anti-vaxers, & the deeply cynical Aussie politicians who are abusing NZ'ers human rights by deporting them.

Balance
29-07-2021, 12:46 PM
Before we (mostly) all rush to what seems to be the default outrage setting, just a quick cursory check shows there are 2 innocent vulnerable children being overlooked here, a 2year old and a 5 year old who are both NZ citizens.
I don't believe any decent person here would refuse to offer them refuge from the extreme trauma & suffering they must have experienced, even if they weren't NZ citizens.

So before we rage at the govt over another difficult & complex issue, we have a moral & a legal obligation to take this family back & its a real shame Judith Collins is so desperate she has to appeal to & exploit the worst traits in human nature, fear, anger, selfishness & ignorance to shore up her fading leadership. This is not the National Party of Bill English or John Key.

Further it appears the young mother a 19 year old at the time, on seeing first hand the reality didn't match the seductive recruitment propaganda, may have had second thoughts and attempted to pull out of crossing into Syria & return home, but was stymied by the group she was travelling with. I can understand that with a group as brutal as ISIS.

And really does anyone believe she & her 2 children pose more of a threat to NZ'ers than some of the anti-vaxers we find here or the gang members being sent back from Aussie ?
I don't think so.

Save your outrage for the anti-vaxers, & the deeply cynical Aussie politicians who are abusing NZ'ers human rights by deporting them.

And the two 'innocent' children will be brought up by a radicalized damaged woman to become model citizens? Screw that for a joke.

artemis
29-07-2021, 12:50 PM
And the two 'innocent' children will be brought up by a radicalized damaged woman to become model citizens? Screw that for a joke.

Will there be anything stopping her and the children travelling to Australia? Where she has family.

Balance
29-07-2021, 12:52 PM
Will there be anything stopping her and the children travelling to Australia? Where she has family.

Australia can stop anyone (save their citizens) from entering any time - as many a NZer has found.

dobby41
29-07-2021, 01:24 PM
And the two 'innocent' children will be brought up by a radicalized damaged woman to become model citizens? Screw that for a joke.

Do you know for sure if she is 'radicalized' or now regrets her foolishness?
I suspect you have made some assumptions about her current state of mind.
It will be interesting to see how she reacts.
She will need a lot of support either way, as will the children.

Balance
29-07-2021, 01:35 PM
How if that makes them stateless?
In 2006 NZ became a party to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness
We did so with the following statement
Declaration:
"[New Zealand] declares that in accordance with
paragraph 3 of article 8 of the Convention New Zealand
retains the right to deprive a person of his New Zealand
citizenship on the following grounds, being grounds
existing in New Zealand law at the present time:
the person has, while a New Zealand citizen and while
of or over the age of 18 years and of full capacity,
(a) Acquired the nationality or citizenship of another
country by any voluntary and formal act, and acted in a
manner that is contrary to the interests of New Zealand; or
(b) Voluntarily exercised any of the privileges or
performed any of the duties of another nationality or
citizenship possessed by him in a manner that is contrary
to the interests of New Zealand."

So we could have dropped her as a citizen if we had done it before Aussie but it is now too late under our law.

Australia never signed - they don't give a toss really.

https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/

Nothing to stop NZ from revoking her citizenship.

Balance
29-07-2021, 01:36 PM
Do you know for sure if she is 'radicalized' or now regrets her foolishness?
I suspect you have made some assumptions about her current state of mind.
It will be interesting to see how she reacts.
She will need a lot of support either way, as will the children.

She can get plenty of support from ISIS sympathizers in Iran or Syria - and a few more bastard children too by the sound of it.

dobby41
29-07-2021, 02:22 PM
https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/

Nothing to stop NZ from revoking her citizenship.

But not if it makes her stateless because we signed up to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.

Balance
29-07-2021, 02:35 PM
But not if it makes her stateless because we signed up to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.

But she is not stateless - she is a citizen of the ISIS caliphate, which is still operating.

Zaphod
29-07-2021, 08:16 PM
Will there be anything stopping her and the children travelling to Australia? Where she has family.

She will not be eligible to be granted a passport, nor will she likely be granted access to any foreign country even if she possessed a passport.

Her life and that of her Syrian born (as I understand it) children in NZ will be tightly controlled by our security services.

dobby41
04-08-2021, 11:34 AM
Poor wee Judith - people are being 'malicious and nasty' to her.
Pots and kettles come to mind.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/judith-collins-says-people-are-being-malicious-and-nasty-after-she-said-people-want-to-bottle-police-minister-poto-williams.html

Balance
04-08-2021, 02:46 PM
Poor wee Judith - people are being 'malicious and nasty' to her.
Pots and kettles come to mind.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/judith-collins-says-people-are-being-malicious-and-nasty-after-she-said-people-want-to-bottle-police-minister-poto-williams.html

You need to go back to school for comprehension - she was referring to the malicious & nasty way her comments about Poto ‘I represent South Auckland Maori & Pacific Islanders’ Williams were misrepresented. Her comments - not her, savvy?

As for Poto’s daughter concerned about her mother’s safety, I have yet to read anything more pathetic from a politician attempting to milk sympathy & attention even while she (Poto) showed she could not care less about police safety & gun violence.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/448364/collins-defends-bottle-comments-about-police-minister-poto-williams

dobby41
05-08-2021, 07:42 AM
Judith makes a big noise about the money spent on the programme for drug addiction - supposedly paying the Mongrol Mob when National did the same.
She got a roasting in question time yesterday.
She is just so useless! Why can't we have a real opposition? Democracy needs a functioning opposition.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/previous-national-government-gave-30-000-to-mongrel-mob-member-harry-tam-s-hard-2-reach.html

Blue Skies
08-08-2021, 12:54 PM
Blimy, the disfunction & shambles continues, no accountability, no reset, no lessons learnt, no refresh, what a disappointment.
Dinosaurs, what else can you say.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448747/david-carter-resigns-from-national-party-board-with-zero-confidence-in-goodfellow

Balance
08-08-2021, 04:34 PM
Blimy, the disfunction & shambles continues, no accountability, no reset, no lessons learnt, no refresh, what a disappointment.
Dinosaurs, what else can you say.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448747/david-carter-resigns-from-national-party-board-with-zero-confidence-in-goodfellow

Yup - Goodfellow must be tossed out.

iceman
08-08-2021, 10:35 PM
Yup - Goodfellow must be tossed out.

Agree but David Carter is not the person to replace him. Good riddance if you ask me !

Logen Ninefingers
09-08-2021, 12:27 PM
Absolute despair in NZ. A hopeless, incompetent, corrupt government driving radical left wing policies and separatism via their plan to upend our democracy and 'co-govern' with the Maori tribal elites....and there is no opposition. National couldn't get rid of Goodfellow? After all the debacles around candidate selections & the terrible election result....and they can't get rid of Goodfellow!!??!!??!! Meanwhile 'Muldoon in drag' continues to cement her position, even though it will end up in disaster with another big defeat in the next election.
If you want change in the National party, best to tell the pollsters you support ACT and prefer Seymour as PM. Eventually National will have to act and get rid of 'Muldoon in drag' before it is too late.

dobby41
27-08-2021, 09:58 AM
Meanwhile in National disunity reigns
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-thomas-coughlan-knives-out-in-national-as-caucus-struggles-to-show-unity-despite-obvious-division/PKJ2PZM6ABLWKZQCLRXK2BKYZE/
"One source told the Herald that Collins "completely lost it" at Bishop. Another source described her tirade as "f***ing ballistic"."

Balance
27-08-2021, 10:39 AM
Meanwhile in National disunity reigns
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-thomas-coughlan-knives-out-in-national-as-caucus-struggles-to-show-unity-despite-obvious-division/PKJ2PZM6ABLWKZQCLRXK2BKYZE/
"One source told the Herald that Collins "completely lost it" at Bishop. Another source described her tirade as "f***ing ballistic"."

Good on her.

More, I say - sack half the deadbeats and disloyal MPs - then, the rebuilding of a credible Opposition can really start.

dobby41
27-08-2021, 10:50 AM
Good on her.

More, I say - sack half the deadbeats and disloyal MPs - then, the rebuilding of a credible Opposition can really start.

Bishop a deadbeat?
If she's not careful she'll get rid of the future and be left with the past (sycophants).

iceman
27-08-2021, 11:02 AM
Bishop a deadbeat?
If she's not careful she'll get rid of the future and be left with the past (sycophants).

I think it was a mistake not to allow a conscience vote on this issue. Agree the 3 MPs mentioned are National’s top performers and demoting any of them would be a huge mistake.
I think she should be asking the finance & health spokesmen what they have been doing. I never see anything from them

fungus pudding
27-08-2021, 11:08 AM
Good on her.

More, I say - sack half the deadbeats and disloyal MPs - then, the rebuilding of a credible Opposition can really start.

She should start by getting rid of herself.

dobby41
27-08-2021, 11:13 AM
She should start by getting rid of herself.

They might win an election then :scared:

Balance
27-08-2021, 11:39 AM
She should start by getting rid of herself.

Don’t disagree with you there.

fungus pudding
27-08-2021, 11:41 AM
They might win an election then :scared:

Provided they pick the right one there is no doubt they would win. Labour has next to nothing going for them - apart from a leader with a bit of charisma.

Balance
27-08-2021, 12:08 PM
Provided they pick the right one there is no doubt they would win. Labour has next to nothing going for them - apart from a leader with a bit of charisma.

Her charisma is wearing thin - her defensive performance yesterday afternoon shows she knows the tide is turning and majority are seeing through now to her 'all spin and no delivery' government.

justakiwi
27-08-2021, 12:12 PM
Wrong. National needs to do a hell of a lot more between now and the election, other than simply getting rid of Collins. That alone is not going to do it. I voted Labour last election, but as I have previously said, I am less than happy about some of their recent initiatives/decisions (not including their management of covid). But right now, National gives me absolutely nothing to vote for either. If they don't pull some rabbits out of the bag soon, they have no hope of getting my vote, or the vote or any disillusioned Labour voters.

Not entirely sure how I feel about ACT, but at this point in time I think my son is right - they will pick up the votes from people "stuck in limbo" with no clear winner in terms of who to vote for. Both Labour and National need to seriously think about that.


Provided they pick the right one there is no doubt they would win. Labour has next to nothing going for them - apart from a leader with a bit of charisma.

fungus pudding
27-08-2021, 01:08 PM
Her charisma is wearing thin - her defensive performance yesterday afternoon shows she knows the tide is turning and majority are seeing through now to her 'all spin and no delivery' government.

Of course it will wear thin. Time does that to alll politicians, but she's still got a heap of brownie points at this stage with no threat in sight. National needs to get a new leader in place now. No use waiting till just before the election. They've got a couple of real possibilities in their ranks. And - apart from the leader - Labour aren't in the hunt.

Logen Ninefingers
27-08-2021, 02:28 PM
The only deadbeat is Whaleoil in Drag. She is the one who is knifing and spraying to try and maintain her grip on power, and she doesn't care how many elections she loses as long as she stays there.
If she can destroy all internal challengers and up and comers in the National caucus then she will. It is a scorched earth policy will will set the party back a decade. Get her out, she is still the same toxic 'dirty politics' person she has always been, the leopard doesn't change its spots. She can only talk tough - is not quick enough between the ears but has borrowed Muldoon's grin and deploys it liberally...that's about all she has got, that and utter ruthlessness.

Blue Skies
27-08-2021, 03:07 PM
Meanwhile in National disunity reigns
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-thomas-coughlan-knives-out-in-national-as-caucus-struggles-to-show-unity-despite-obvious-division/PKJ2PZM6ABLWKZQCLRXK2BKYZE/
"One source told the Herald that Collins "completely lost it" at Bishop. Another source described her tirade as "f***ing ballistic"."




Would someone mind sharing a rough outline of what this story was about? Guessing it was about Bishop's twitter response re voting on the recent piece of draft legislation?

dobby41
27-08-2021, 03:38 PM
Would someone mind sharing a rough outline of what this story was about? Guessing it was about Bishop's twitter response re voting on the recent piece of draft legislation?

Collins was unhappy with the way some MPs had publicly suggested they were less than supportive of the caucus' decision to vote against a ban on conversion therapy.

Collins allegedly unloaded on one of the most high-profile detractors, Covid-19 spokesman Chris Bishop.

iceman
27-08-2021, 03:38 PM
Would someone mind sharing a rough outline of what this story was about? Guessing it was about Bishop's twitter response re voting on the recent piece of draft legislation?

Basically saying Judith lost it in a caucus meeting ripping into Chris Bishop and dressing down the other MPs that were unhappy about the caucus decision to not allow conscience votes on the conversion therapy bill. It is known that Nicola Willis, Chris Bishop and Erica Stanford may have wanted to vote in favour of it. I think ACT were much smarter voting for it to go in for a 2nd reading without promising support beyond that.

Blue Skies
27-08-2021, 05:15 PM
Thanks Dobby & Iceman, I thought as much.

Bit of 'throwing stones in glass houses'. Apart from shows of loyalty & unity never bothering Judith too much in the past, she's just adding to the damage.

A quiet word would have been the way to handle it rather than a humiliating showdown in front of caucus.
The sort of thing not easily 'moved on from' as am sure she would like to think.
Big ego's involved & she must be feeling her leadership vulnerable & on increasingly shaky ground.

artemis
28-08-2021, 07:56 AM
.... A quiet word would have been the way to handle it rather than a humiliating showdown in front of caucus.
The sort of thing not easily 'moved on from' as am sure she would like to think.
Big ego's involved & she must be feeling her leadership vulnerable & on increasingly shaky ground.

Pour encourager les autres. Obviously.

Logen Ninefingers
28-08-2021, 09:57 AM
“in this country it is found good, from time to time, to kill one Admiral to encourage the others.”

Blue Skies
28-08-2021, 10:36 AM
Pour encourager les autres. Obviously.


It's like a circular firing squad at the moment!

iceman
28-08-2021, 10:53 AM
Thanks Dobby & Iceman, I thought as much.

Bit of 'throwing stones in glass houses'. Apart from shows of loyalty & unity never bothering Judith too much in the past, she's just adding to the damage.

A quiet word would have been the way to handle it rather than a humiliating showdown in front of caucus.
The sort of thing not easily 'moved on from' as am sure she would like to think.
Big ego's involved & she must be feeling her leadership vulnerable & on increasingly shaky ground.

Agree. I will struggle to support National with Judith as Leader after what she did to my local MP Nick Smith and now demoting Chris Bishop

dobby41
28-08-2021, 12:28 PM
Agree. I will struggle to support National with Judith as Leader after what she did to my local MP Nick Smith and now demoting Chris Bishop

Will Todd Muller ever be seen again.
On leave for now but not allowed back into the caucus - how can he represent those who voted for him? A total betrayal of those voters.

Balance
28-08-2021, 12:36 PM
Will Todd Muller ever be seen again.
On leave for now but not allowed back into the caucus - how can he represent those who voted for him? A total betrayal of those voters.

Todd Mueller cannot even look after himself, let alone the electorate voters!

He should have done the honourable thing and resigned but he is not an honourable man. An MP who leaks is not only untrustworthy but a loser.

iceman
28-08-2021, 12:39 PM
Will Todd Muller ever be seen again.
On leave for now but not allowed back into the caucus - how can he represent those who voted for him? A total betrayal of those voters.

Agree. He should resign and force a by-election.

dobby41
28-08-2021, 12:43 PM
Agree. He should resign and force a by-election.

When I suggested it a while back I was shot down with the reasoning that he had been voted by the people so should stay.
I feel he is a lame duck now, especially since Judith has disowned him (and his electorate really).

macduffy
28-08-2021, 02:23 PM
So. thin ranks become even thinner! Is there any talent left in this party?

:confused:

dobby41
28-08-2021, 02:34 PM
So. thin ranks become even thinner! Is there any talent left in this party?

:confused:

When you are in a room with only people who agree with you then you are in the wrong room.
Judith will destroy the party the way she is going.

iceman
28-08-2021, 03:12 PM
When I suggested it a while back I was shot down with the reasoning that he had been voted by the people so should stay.
I feel he is a lame duck now, especially since Judith has disowned him (and his electorate really).

I think people, myself included, thought back then he would do his job representing his electorate honourably. It is now clear he has no intention or ability to, having been kicked out of the caucus.

fungus pudding
28-08-2021, 03:25 PM
When you are in a room with only people who agree with you then you are in the wrong room.
Judith will destroy the party the way she is going.

She's more likely to destroy herself, leaving a much improved party. There's plenty of talent in the ranks. Pretty much the opposite structure to Labour's make-up - A popular leader with nothing in the ranks.

dobby41
28-08-2021, 03:41 PM
I think people, myself included, thought back then he would do his job representing his electorate honourably. It is now clear he has no intention or ability to, having been kicked out of the caucus.

Some had a clearer vision of where it was heading.

dobby41
28-08-2021, 03:42 PM
She's more likely to destroy herself, leaving a much improved party. There's plenty of talent in the ranks. Pretty much the opposite structure to Labour's make-up - A popular leader with nothing in the ranks.

I hope so - we deserve a proper Opposition.
Either that or they hand the mantle to ACT.

Balance
28-08-2021, 04:57 PM
I think people, myself included, thought back then he would do his job representing his electorate honourably. It is now clear he has no intention or ability to, having been kicked out of the caucus.

Todd Mueller is a useless politician and MP who was busy undermining Simon Bridges with leaks and continued to do so(leaks) after showing he could not handle the stress of leadership.

RTM
28-08-2021, 05:45 PM
An MP who leaks is not only untrustworthy but a loser.

Hmmmmmm...and Judith has never leaked ? They really are in trouble eh !

Balance
28-08-2021, 05:48 PM
Hmmmmmm...and Judith has never leaked ? They really are in trouble eh !

You don’t see me disagreeing with you.

There is a huge difference I must say however of a MP like Todd who leaked, got what he wanted, could not handle the job, quit as leader but continued to leak like he thought he was kingmaker.

artemis
28-08-2021, 06:08 PM
You don’t see me disagreeing with you.

There is a huge difference I must say however of a MP like Todd who leaked, got what he wanted, could not handle the job, quit as leader but continued to leak like he thought he was kingmaker.

Mr Muller was persuaded to challenge for the leadership and assured of support / votes by a group of MPs. At a time when polls were indicating a problem for National. Seems like he was not reluctant. The support and votes promised would have made it look like a shoo in. Until their choice turned out to be a lemon. Some of the support group are well known and now high profile. Good for them, they are working hard. But in my mind there will always be a ? over them due to that flawed judgement.

dobby41
29-08-2021, 01:58 PM
So Bishop now loses the 'Shadow Leader of the House' role so he can concentrate on his shadow Covid-19 gig.
Punishment!

iceman
29-08-2021, 02:21 PM
So Bishop now loses the 'Shadow Leader of the House' role so he can concentrate on his shadow Covid-19 gig.
Punishment!

Old news. Get with it :-)

dobby41
29-08-2021, 03:02 PM
Old news. Get with it :-)

I am 'with it' - groovy baby :t_up:

I hadn't seen it mentioned here.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 07:20 AM
So during the last election, Judith was saying that she was all for NZ embracing digital technology and she was the person for it.
But then she says that a digital parliament isn't a good idea during level 4 so she flys south from the centre of the Delta outbreak to appear in Parliament in person.
She is an essential worker like a supermarket worker so can travel - except it is very hard to stack shelves via Zoom.

What a joke she is. Politics got in the way of common sense.

artemis
01-09-2021, 10:03 AM
So during the last election, Judith was saying that she was all for NZ embracing digital technology and she was the person for it.
But then she says that a digital parliament isn't a good idea during level 4 so she flys south from the centre of the Delta outbreak to appear in Parliament in person.
She is an essential worker like a supermarket worker so can travel - except it is very hard to stack shelves via Zoom.

What a joke she is. Politics got in the way of common sense.

Was there a plan for a digital parliament?

Balance
01-09-2021, 10:11 AM
Was there a plan for a digital parliament?

LOL - you got him there, me thinkth!

But it is unbelievable that Cindy thought she can, with the ever ready $300k+ taxpayer paid legal fee Mallard on the ready, shut down Parliament so she does not have to answer to we, the People via our MPs.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-parliament-is-recalled-now-use-it/WANYXFXVFS743OOWT433EQWDIE/

"How can the Prime Minister meet with a dozen journalists in her daily press conferences but then claim it is unsafe to answer questions from MPs?

The New Zealand Parliament website states: "The Speaker's first duty as Speaker is to lay claim to all the privileges of the House, especially to freedom of speech".

When Mallard shut parliament MPs lost their freedom of speech."

The Speaker closing Parliament was outrageous. Having sat in Parliament and participated in Zoom meetings as a director, a virtual meeting is no substitute for an in-person Parliament.

Our Parliament has never before been unilaterally shut by the Speaker. Open Democracy reports that 31 authoritarian governments have used Covid to shut or limit parliaments. Now the list is 32 countries.

Zaphod
01-09-2021, 10:23 AM
Trying to implement a video conference for a large number of participants with varying levels of technical skill & connectivity in an adversarial environment is challenging at the best of times, let alone without a plan during a pandemic. A plan should have been developed by now, surely? If not, it's time to get one.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 11:07 AM
Was there a plan for a digital parliament?

Zoom parliament - use technology to best advantage.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 11:09 AM
Trying to implement a video conference for a large number of participants with varying levels of technical skill & connectivity in an adversarial environment is challenging at the best of times, let alone without a plan during a pandemic. A plan should have been developed by now, surely? If not, it's time to get one.

That's pretty sad - these are the people we trust to run the country and you suggest that they can't run a computer program?
Should have been easy for Judith - she crowed that she was up with this stuff. Maybe she could have helped her caucus?

Balance
01-09-2021, 11:21 AM
That's pretty sad - these are the people we trust to run the country and you suggest that they can't run a computer program?
Should have been easy for Judith - she crowed that she was up with this stuff. Maybe she could have helped her caucus?

Why her?

Surely it is job of the government’s & Trevor ‘freeloader’ Mallard to effectively set up and manage a proper system?

Critical point you have completely missed is that Cindy is happy to front to a dozen or more reporters everyday but is not prepared to front Parliament? Hypocrisy & spin management at its most obvious - and you support it?

Zaphod
01-09-2021, 11:23 AM
That's pretty sad - these are the people we trust to run the country and you suggest that they can't run a computer program?
Should have been easy for Judith - she crowed that she was up with this stuff. Maybe she could have helped her caucus?

It's not that simple. When you have large numbers of people streaming video concurrently the potential issues are magnified. You need to ensure that each member has adequate bandwidth and a low latency connection, that the equipment being used to access the service is secure and capable of maintaining the connection, that the software being used is the same version across each member accessing the conference, that remotely provisioned tech support is available and can connect to a members device should an issue arise, that there are processes and policies in place for managing the video conference in the same manner as an in-person session of parliament is conducted (e.g. how do you discipline a member on a video conference? How do you terminate their connection if they go overtime?) These are just a tiny few of the huge number of issues that can arise.

Providing remote tech support is no walk in the park either, let alone in real time, remotely, in a high pressured environment.

They need a plan first.

fungus pudding
01-09-2021, 11:41 AM
Trying to implement a video conference for a large number of participants with varying levels of technical skill & connectivity in an adversarial environment is challenging at the best of times, let alone without a plan during a pandemic. A plan should have been developed by now, surely? If not, it's time to get one.

It shouldn't be that difficult, and certainly watching on Parliament TV yesterday it was obvious that zoom could have catered for the proceedings perfectly well. Collins was just playing politics. I'm surprised that the usually sensible David Seymour sided with her. As the attached article asks 'could an in-person parliament accomplish anything that a digital parliament can't?' The article's author concludes the answer is more or less it would not.
Digital committee meetings should not become common-place, but in circumstances where travel or p to p meeting is difficult they can be very useful. You lost a few points and gained absolutely zilch there Judith.
12914

Blue Skies
01-09-2021, 11:53 AM
1) Isn't the reasoning around switching to a Virtual Parliament about not bringing MP's in from all over the country, i.e. the movement of MP's around the country during Lockdown ?
i.e. the PM fronting journalists who are already in Wellington irrelevant.

2) Govt departments already do this during Lockdown, using Zoom meetings & conference calls daily instead of even senior management flying to Wellington for meetings etc.

3) Whats the problem re the technology or the planning ? They already use Zoom with multiple participants without any problems.

artemis
01-09-2021, 12:24 PM
Zoom parliament - use technology to best advantage.

Sure thing. So was that ready to go? Including Speaker Mallard who would be running it?

Zaphod
01-09-2021, 12:44 PM
Firstly, let me be clear: my statements are from a technical support perspective, not whether Judith is correct or not.

Government departments do not conduct meetings at the same scale nor with the same procedural requirements as parliament does. A parliamentary session is like trying to keep a group of rowdy 3 year olds on task, not a small number of professionals, so the experience and controls required to execute this are quite different.

You may think that they do not have issues conducting meetings with multiple participants, but they do, and these issues are addressed by technical support staff as well as the end-user training already provided.

These departments also do not use Zoom as their primary technology platform for video conferencing, so do we change to that platform? What happens if one participant wants to use a different platform because their cousin recommended it? (Yes, that does happen) Who supports this? Do we stay with the existing MS Teams service? Who provides support during the session? Do we have enough staff to provide support? Do the participants all have enough bandwidth (some use cellphone connections, not fibre)?

Based on my personal technical experience establishing and supporting this type of environment, I've already highlighted a number of issues in the provision of the service and support in the post above, and there are numerous additional over and above these. All of these issues must be addressed beforehand to enable a smooth digital based session to be conducted, and this should have already been completed.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 12:51 PM
Sure thing. So was that ready to go? Including Speaker Mallard who would be running it?

They were given the opportunity so must have been ready to go.
I don't think they actually use Zoom as such but 'zoom like'.

Balance
01-09-2021, 12:54 PM
They were given the opportunity so must have been ready to go.
I don't think they actually use Zoom as such but 'zoom like'.

Yup - same as when Kiwibuild was ready to go.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 01:05 PM
Yup - same as when Kiwibuild was ready to go.

Parliament and Government are two different things.
Open your eyes rather than be blighted by your rabid bias.

Balance
01-09-2021, 01:09 PM
Parliament and Government are two different things.
Open your eyes rather than be blighted by your rabid bias.

Both are handled by same government - Cindy and/or Trevor Mallard.

dobby41
01-09-2021, 01:43 PM
Both are handled by same government - Cindy and/or Trevor Mallard.

We have already had virtual committees that worked well - Parliament is just a scale issue.

fungus pudding
01-09-2021, 02:25 PM
Firstly, let me be clear: my statements are from a technical support perspective, not whether Judith is correct or not.

Government departments do not conduct meetings at the same scale nor with the same procedural requirements as parliament does. A parliamentary session is like trying to keep a group of rowdy 3 year olds on task, not a small number of professionals, so the experience and controls required to execute this are quite different.

You may think that they do not have issues conducting meetings with multiple participants, but they do, and these issues are addressed by technical support staff as well as the end-user training already provided.

These departments also do not use Zoom as their primary technology platform for video conferencing, so do we change to that platform? What happens if one participant wants to use a different platform because their cousin recommended it? (Yes, that does happen) Who supports this? Do we stay with the existing MS Teams service? Who provides support during the session? Do we have enough staff to provide support? Do the participants all have enough bandwidth (some use cellphone connections, not fibre)?

Based on my personal technical experience establishing and supporting this type of environment, I've already highlighted a number of issues in the provision of the service and support in the post above, and there are numerous additional over and above these. All of these issues must be addressed beforehand to enable a smooth digital based session to be conducted, and this should have already been completed.

What scale? We are not talking about the full parliament. This is about select committee meetings, which are relatively small groups - maybe 10 to 12 members. Surely they can hold the occassional virtual meeting when circumstances dictate. Yes - you have highlighted the odd problem, but that's life - and you can be assured that real-life face to face meetings will have problems that are just as big - if not bigger, like missing a flight, or airport fogged in, etc.

Blue Skies
04-09-2021, 09:32 AM
Interesting week ahead.
Rumblings started up regarding Simon Bridges replacing Judith Collins after Judith's explosion in Caucus, brittle & defensive performance on breakfast TV & debacle around using Zoom. ( backfired horribly when so many employees, elderly & even school kids having to use zoom every day, & Australian parliament ).

Who would be the better caretaker, Bridges or Collins?
Many starting to think Bridges, he looks more relaxed & likeable than he has for years.
Apart from a very diminished core of supporters, Collins seems to be alienating so many with her brittleness, & intense angry exchanges, stress getting to her & the false smiles just make it worse.

fungus pudding
04-09-2021, 09:41 AM
Interesting week ahead.
Rumblings started up regarding Simon Bridges replacing Judith Collins after Judith's explosion in Caucus, brittle & defensive performance on breakfast TV & debacle around using Zoom. ( backfired horribly when so many employees, elderly & even school kids having to use zoom every day, & Australian parliament ).

Who would be the better caretaker, Bridges or Collins?
Many starting to think Bridges, he looks more relaxed & likeable than he has for years.
Apart from a very diminished core of supporters, Collins seems to be alienating so many with her brittleness, & intense angry exchanges, stress getting to her & the false smiles just make it worse.

Neither Bridges or Collins will ever be P.M. Next National leader hasn't shown interest yet ......... but she will soon.

RTM
11-09-2021, 06:44 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126351648/covid19-dr-siouxsie-wiles-warns-of-disinformation-after-claims-she-was-caught-breaking-lockdown-rules

Gosh, Judith is all class, isn’t she !

Bjauck
11-09-2021, 07:01 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126351648/covid19-dr-siouxsie-wiles-warns-of-disinformation-after-claims-she-was-caught-breaking-lockdown-rules

Gosh, Judith is all class, isn’t she !

Has she been looking at Trump's playbook? It seems as though she has been waiting for a pretext to undermine Dr Wiles. It looks like she took bloggers' assumptions as facts.

Blue Skies
11-09-2021, 08:43 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126351648/covid19-dr-siouxsie-wiles-warns-of-disinformation-after-claims-she-was-caught-breaking-lockdown-rules

Gosh, Judith is all class, isn’t she !


What was she thinking! More self inflicted damage to her & the National party brand.

Hurling such deeply personal insults using those words esp at another woman, it's unbelievable really for someone in her role.
Twitter went crazy.

Story now all about Judith Collin's political judgement, unsuitability for the role, and her ongoing close association with the reviled Cameron Slater.

dobby41
11-09-2021, 12:15 PM
What was she thinking! More self inflicted damage to her & the National party brand.

Hurling such deeply personal insults using those words esp at another woman, it's unbelievable really for someone in her role.
Twitter went crazy.

Story now all about Judith Collin's political judgement, unsuitability for the role, and her ongoing close association with the reviled Cameron Slater.

Seems she doesn't know what bikes are.
Just stupid.
Another angle from The Spinoff
New Zealand urgently needs a serious opposition leader
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-spinoff-new-zealand-urgently-needs-a-serious-opposition-leader/VSJXHUHRKWZAHNDED7D6QD4A2I/
We are paying her - we are being ripped-off!

Joshuatree
11-09-2021, 12:33 PM
"Judith Collins' legacy? You tell me. Or, a better thought experiment: try to imagine her as the prime minister, leading the country in the face of a crisis."

New Zealand urgently needs a serious opposition leader (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-09-2021/new-zealand-urgently-needs-a-serious-opposition-leader/)

Says it all. I am thankful everyday with the leader that we have through this crisis.

Aaron
13-09-2021, 07:40 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126351648/covid19-dr-siouxsie-wiles-warns-of-disinformation-after-claims-she-was-caught-breaking-lockdown-rules

Gosh, Judith is all class, isn’t she !

She is bad news for National and for NZ. Her small minded nastiness keeps showing up despite toning it down when she became the leader of National.

Balance
16-09-2021, 08:12 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126389309/the-end-is-nigh-as-judith-collins-stumbles-once-too-often

The end is nigh.

fungus pudding
16-09-2021, 07:02 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126389309/the-end-is-nigh-as-judith-collins-stumbles-once-too-often

The end is nigh.

Yep. Dump her.

Panda-NZ-
16-09-2021, 07:10 PM
Their female representation will be even worse then.

Put all the women on the backbench..?

dobby41
17-09-2021, 08:10 AM
Their female representation will be even worse then.

Put all the women on the backbench..?

The polling seems to show that women like her less than men - very astute of them!

Blue Skies
17-09-2021, 09:10 AM
Imo the problem goes deeper than Collins.

They need a proper clean out, MP's like Michael Woodhouse & Melissa Lee, both exposed as mean & nasty, have way too much form, & Maureen Pugh described as 'f#xx#ng useless' by Simon Bridges only still there as a staunch supporter of Collins. Haughty & arrogant Hipango caught posting blatantly false info on social media & seems distrusted by others in caucus, again only there as a staunch supporter of Collins. And they're just the ones who immediately spring to mind.

The President Goodfellow needs to go too.

There were high hopes for Collins when she started, she seemed a changed person, but human nature being what it is, put people under a bit of stress, & their true nature comes out.
In Collins case weirdly intermittently as she seems to battle putting up a controlled public front with inner instincts. The forced smiles & attempt at light heartedness with the seething anger.

Logen Ninefingers
17-09-2021, 10:33 AM
Michael Woodhouse is 'mean & nasty'(?) Sticks and stones!?!

Agree that Goodfellow should go - and Collins must go. ACT now on 15% and steadily gaining on National. Politics is a bit like religion: when you have a small following you are labelled as a cult and derided, once you pass a certain threshold of numbers you get the respect of the masses and graduate to becoming a 'religion'. National have to be careful that ACT don't take over their mantle as the true 'religion' or main party of the Right. They must do something soon & ignore any ditherers that suggest otherwise. Every day that they delay the problem confronting them gets worse. When you leader and party shenangighans start to be viewed as a farce, then the situation becomes very dire indeed. Collins may appeal to aged Muldoonists but she doesn't appeal to anyone else in modern NZ society - it's not the 80's. David Seymour - for all his personal quirks - is an effective politician who lands blows and gets things done. Collins is so scattershot that she lands as many blows on herself and her colleagues as she does on the government.

Blue Skies
17-09-2021, 11:09 AM
Michael Woodhouse is 'mean & nasty'(?) Sticks and stones!?!

Agree that Goodfellow should go - and Collins must go. ACT now on 15% and steadily gaining on National. Politics is a bit like religion: when you have a small following you are labelled as a cult and derided, once you pass a certain threshold of numbers you get the respect of the masses and graduate to becoming a 'religion'. National have to be careful that ACT don't take over their mantle as the true 'religion' or main party of the Right. They must do something soon & ignore any ditherers that suggest otherwise. Every day that they delay the problem confronting them gets worse. When you leader and party shenangighans start to be viewed as a farce, then the situation becomes very dire indeed. Collins may appeal to aged Muldoonists but she doesn't appeal to anyone else in modern NZ society - it's not the 80's. David Seymour - for all his personal quirks - is an effective politician who lands blows and gets things done. Collins is so scattershot that she lands as many blows on herself and her colleagues as she does on the government.



Let me remind you Michael Woodhouse is the MP who proudly paraded a toilet seat with a picture of an opposition women MP printed onto the seat, the inference being.....
Any person who does that is very sick, very weird, def shouldn't be in parliament.

What sort of person makes such deliberate efforts to achieve total humiliation & destruction of another human being!
And when Claire Curran was obviously mentally at breaking point, Woodhouse & Lee relentlessly continued their vindictive campaign.
When Curran lost her job, her reputation & her mental health, Woodhouse & Lee were cheering, celebrating.
(Compare that to the way Muller was treated when at breaking point).
Why would you even want people like that around you or in your caucus.


Another rather stunning revelation in that latest poll was National had only 15% support in anyone under 40.

BlackPeter
17-09-2021, 11:10 AM
Yep. Dump her.

Nice idea. Question is just - does have National any better option left? Judith worked hard to get rid of Nationals talent by surgically removing the complete liberal wing ...

While I am still a bit concerned about the gun-lovers ... I think that David Seymour would make a much better figure than Judith as opposition leader (and I say that without any reference to the physical shape of both politicians in question :p);

Not sure yet what I will see come next election as the smaller evil to vote for, but if Judith and Goodfellow's secret selection tribunals are still running National, than I am sure it won't be them.

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2021, 12:08 PM
While I am still a bit concerned about the gun-lovers ... I think that David Seymour would make a much better figure than Judith as opposition leader (and I say that without any reference to the physical shape of both politicians in question :p);

Strange chap. only real world experience is working in a canadian lobby group known for climate change denial.

BlackPeter
17-09-2021, 12:19 PM
Strange chap. only real world experience is working in a canadian lobby group known for climate change denial.

I wasn't saying he is a good alternative ... however - I think he would be a much better opposition leader than Judith :p;

And yes, I neither like ACT's environmental policies nor do I like their stance on law and order. However - there are as well so many things I don't like about Green policies (though in different areas) or with Labours implementation abilities as well as with Labours (not so hidden anymore) racist agenda.

Duds wherever one looks ...

I meant it when I said I will try to pick the "smaller evil" ...

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2021, 12:32 PM
The policy centre he worked once at was later trying to downplay the deaths of 6,000 indigeneous children.

Nice to know they attract only the best talent.
They hold anti-vaccine positions too

https://fcpp.org/2021/09/15/no-booster-shot-for-me/

fungus pudding
17-09-2021, 12:41 PM
I wasn't saying he is a good alternative ... however - I think he would be a much better opposition leader than Judith :p;

And yes, I neither like ACT's environmental policies nor do I like their stance on law and order. However - there are as well so many things I don't like about Green policies (though in different areas) or with Labours implementation abilities as well as with Labours (not so hidden anymore) racist agenda.

Duds wherever one looks ...

I meant it when I said I will try to pick the "smaller evil" ...

I think that's what most voters aim for. I use my vote in the most effective way I can to block the party I consider will do the most harm.

Logen Ninefingers
17-09-2021, 12:55 PM
The policy centre he worked once at was later trying to downplay the deaths of 6,000 indigeneous children.

Nice to know they attract only the best talent.
They hold anti-vaccine positions too

https://fcpp.org/2021/09/15/no-booster-shot-for-me/

It's been a long time since Seymour worked for them and I don't think working for an organisation in the past makes you responsible for what they have been stating from 2018 onwards.

Ardren was the President of some filthy red organisation but you probably don't think we should continue to hold it against her.

The formation of the Communist International in Moscow in 1919 officially split the worker's and youth movement into two sides. The representatives of the socialist and social-democratic current reconvened the International Socialist Youth Movement in 1921.

fungus pudding
17-09-2021, 01:03 PM
The policy centre he worked once at was later trying to downplay the deaths of 6,000 indigeneous children.

Nice to know they attract only the best talent.
They hold anti-vaccine positions too

https://fcpp.org/2021/09/15/no-booster-shot-for-me/

Who are you on about now? Do you not know how to attribute your comments to another post?

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2021, 01:08 PM
It's been a long time since Seymour worked for them and I don't think working for an organisation in the past makes you responsible for what they have been stating from 2018 onwards.

It's his only private sector job so is quite relevant.

Philosophy major too... like former leader jamie whyte... too stuck in the clouds.

Blue Skies
17-09-2021, 01:10 PM
The policy centre he worked once at was later trying to downplay the deaths of 6,000 indigeneous children.

Nice to know they attract only the best talent.
They hold anti-vaccine positions too

https://fcpp.org/2021/09/15/no-booster-shot-for-me/


Also promoting climate change denials & even had to apologise to a scientist for attempting to discredit him with unfounded aspersions.

Yes, ACT's David Seymour is a strange fellow with some disturbingly dogmatic & myopic views.

Biggest weakness, he doesn't see the broad picture, doesn't make the links, not a big picture thinker.

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2021, 01:14 PM
Biggest weakness, he doesn't see the broad picture, doesn't make the links, not a big picture thinker.

Some critical thinking skills needs to be a big part of philosophy courses at universities.

artemis
17-09-2021, 01:52 PM
I wasn't saying he is a good alternative ... however - I think he would be a much better opposition leader than Judith :p;

And yes, I neither like ACT's environmental policies nor do I like their stance on law and order. However - there are as well so many things I don't like about Green policies (though in different areas) or with Labours implementation abilities as well as with Labours (not so hidden anymore) racist agenda.
Duds wherever one looks ...
I meant it when I said I will try to pick the "smaller evil" ...

Very good to see policies mentioned. Not a lot of it about these days, especially in the media.

Blue Skies
22-09-2021, 09:37 AM
This is another example where National get it so wrong every time.

We're seeing Covid has got into the gangs & now there's huge concern about their compliance with stopping the spread.
The prison population are likely to be the least bothered about protecting others from infection & most challenging to comply/enforce with lockdown once released from prison.

Corrections dept were actively pushing to get the prison population vaccinated as fast as possible obviously for this reason, but National were outraged about this (the prison population) being a priority.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/national-says-it-s-ironic-prisoners-being-vaccinated-before-frontline-cops.html

777
22-09-2021, 10:00 AM
This is another example where National get it so wrong every time.

We're seeing Covid has got into the gangs & now there's huge concern about their compliance with stopping the spread.
The prison population are likely to be the least bothered about protecting others from infection & most challenging to comply/enforce with lockdown once released from prison.

Corrections dept were actively pushing to get the prison population vaccinated as fast as possible obviously for this reason, but National were outraged about this (the prison population) being a priority.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/national-says-it-s-ironic-prisoners-being-vaccinated-before-frontline-cops.html


Not exactly correct. She was challenging the decision of vaccinating the prisoners ahead of the police. I agree with her.

Blue Skies
22-09-2021, 10:19 AM
Not exactly correct. She was challenging the decision of vaccinating the prisoners ahead of the police. I agree with her.


Of course I agree vaccinating the Police was a priority too, but back then it seemed anyone could walk into a vaccination centre and get a jab without an appointment & would expect many police did. Although there wasn't an official policy or fast track exemption for them, it probably wasn't needed.

There really needed to be a fast track policy for both, but anyway the thing I really object to is the way National sabotage the fast tracking of prisoner vaccination, instead of simply pushing for the police to be a priority too.
Containing an outbreak in the gangs is much harder than containing an outbreak among some police officers.

David Seymour similarly sabotaged the program to try and get dangerously lagging Maori vaccination rates up in West Auckland, when he released the code for appointments to the general public. Containing an outbreaks in the Maori or Polynesian population tends to be far more difficult because of things like their large family & community groups, overcrowded housing, church groups and so on.

fungus pudding
22-09-2021, 11:11 AM
Some critical thinking skills needs to be a big part of philospohy courses at universities.

...which is precisely why they are.

dobby41
23-09-2021, 02:06 PM
You could just have a big fat hypocrite
Judith Collins filmed without a mask at Queenstown business.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-judith-collins-filmed-without-mask-at-queenstown-business/Q4IFBI5SQ2B7UBUVRCIU3QRIPA/
What hope is there for the party when their leader thinks understanding the rules is difficult?
You don't have to wear a mask when you are eating at a cafe but standing in the takeaway queue is hardly 'eating'.

Out and about in the country for the last few days, I didn't see anyone who didn't understand the rules - mask to enter a cafe until seated. Mask back on to go and pay. Really not hard.
So it seems that the average punter can understand the rules better than the National leader and the health shadow.
Sad times for National.
We deserve a better opposition, democracy needs a real opposition party!

BlackPeter
23-09-2021, 04:21 PM
You could just have a big fat hypocrite
Judith Collins filmed without a mask at Queenstown business.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-judith-collins-filmed-without-mask-at-queenstown-business/Q4IFBI5SQ2B7UBUVRCIU3QRIPA/
What hope is there for the party when their leader thinks understanding the rules is difficult?
You don't have to wear a mask when you are eating at a cafe but standing in the takeaway queue is hardly 'eating'.

Out and about in the country for the last few days, I didn't see anyone who didn't understand the rules - mask to enter a cafe until seated. Mask back on to go and pay. Really not hard.
So it seems that the average punter can understand the rules better than the National leader and the health shadow.
Sad times for National.
We deserve a better opposition, democracy needs a real opposition party!

You are absolutely right. However - I do see a pattern.

I remember that we had a similar problems with the quality of the opposition while John Key and later Bill English used to be PM.

Must be something wrong with the opposition benches in NZ :p ?

Panda-NZ-
23-09-2021, 11:54 PM
Cheers national for the quality fibre network. They didn't cheap out on it.

It has paid off rather well.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland)

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/microsoft-gets-approval-new-zealand-data-center-region/

dobby41
24-09-2021, 10:01 AM
Cheers national for the quality fibre network. They didn't cheap out on it.

It has paid off rather well.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland)

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/microsoft-gets-approval-new-zealand-data-center-region/

Doesn't use the fibre network that the Govt helped get out there.
There has been a quality intra-city and inter-city fibre network long before the UFB

Panda-NZ-
24-09-2021, 11:41 AM
Most NZ businesses and individuals will have to connect to the data centre somehow.

dobby41
24-09-2021, 12:11 PM
Most NZ businesses and individuals will have to connect to the data centre somehow.

My point was that the UFB didn't facilitate the data centres - the capability has been there for years.
I agree that the UFB has given us a great network for individuals and small businesses (large businesses had great access for a long time).

winner69
27-09-2021, 05:34 PM
Maybe Sir John making a comeback and be the next PM

Who’ll resign in a safe National seat to let Sir John into the house before the election

777
27-09-2021, 05:47 PM
Maybe Sir John making a comeback and be the next PM

Who’ll resign in a safe National seat to let Sir John into the house before the election


Some woman out Papakura way.

Logen Ninefingers
27-09-2021, 05:48 PM
Judith ‘Whaleoil’ Collins says she won’t resign, even if National drops below 20%. What an awful woman she is. Key has been more effective in 1 day than Collins has been in months - and it’s off the back of one solitary opinion piece. Collins is an egotistical narcissistic wrecking ball - demolishing National from the inside out.

Blue Skies
27-09-2021, 06:51 PM
Judith ‘Whaleoil’ Collins says she won’t resign, even if National drops below 20%. What an awful woman she is. Key has been more effective in 1 day than Collins has been in months - and it’s off the back of one solitary opinion piece. Collins is an egotistical narcissistic wrecking ball - demolishing National from the inside out.


It's not like she has any competition for the job, no one wants it, and besides apparently, 'Caucus has never been happier' !

Logen Ninefingers
27-09-2021, 07:27 PM
It's not like she has any competition for the job, no one wants it, and besides apparently, 'Caucus has never been happier' !

They either smile or they get the guillotine.

winner69
28-09-2021, 06:39 AM
John and Chris the dream team to make NZ great (and prosperous) again

kiora
28-09-2021, 06:49 AM
Cheers national for the quality fibre network. They didn't cheap out on it.

It has paid off rather well.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/452117/amazon-web-services-to-spend-7-point-5-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland)

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/microsoft-gets-approval-new-zealand-data-center-region/

This bit interesting.
Shoots down Southland suggestion
"Some observers suggested that Microsoft might have done well to place the facility in Southland, in South Island, close to the 850MW Manapōuri hydroelectric power station, which will have space capacity since Rio Tinto Zinc has announced plans to close an aluminum smelting plant there. NZ Herald points out that this was never an option, as North Island has the majority of the NZ population, and international fiber optic cables land in Auckland."

Bjauck
28-09-2021, 07:29 AM
Judith ‘Whaleoil’ Collins says she won’t resign, even if National drops below 20%. What an awful woman she is. Key has been more effective in 1 day than Collins has been in months - and it’s off the back of one solitary opinion piece. Collins is an egotistical narcissistic wrecking ball - demolishing National from the inside out.
I saw Collins on the telly - She implied that John Key was the National Party's Helen Clark. That seemed designed to scare National Party members to remain with Collins!

Bjauck
28-09-2021, 07:33 AM
They either smile or they get the guillotine. Yep. However being the National Party leader is as safe as the head of a Parisian aristocrat during "The Terror!"

Blue Skies
28-09-2021, 08:31 AM
I saw Collins on the telly - She implied that John Key was the National Party's Helen Clark. That seemed designed to scare National Party members to remain with Collins!


I thought that was more about taking the sting out of her as current National party leader, being completely overshadowed by John Key.

Key's comments were headlines everywhere for the right reasons, whereas Collins is becoming increasingly irrelevant & seldom in the headlines except for all the wrong reasons (i.e. the latest stumble)

Helen Clark has never overshadowed Adern in that way.


With such low personal polling, the mental pressure on Collins must be immense & you have to have some respect for being able to handle it, (though the strain is showing.)
It must be tough having finally got the job you so desperately wanted, to find you are so unpopular with much of the country.

Everyone likes to be liked, but politicians more than most. And 5% as leader of National, as preferred PM must feel like such a public humiliation.
That's 'crushing'!
Hope some are looking out for her mental health, & she will listen on when to walk away. No one wants another Todd Muller or Claire Curran.

fungus pudding
28-09-2021, 08:52 AM
Everyone likes to be liked, but politicians more than most. And 5% as leader of National, as preferred PM must feel like such a public humiliation.
That's 'crushing'!
Hope some are looking out for her mental health, & she will listen on when to walk away. No one wants another Todd Muller or Claire Curran.

I'm not sure what gives you that idea. Have you surveyed the other members of Labour?

Balance
28-09-2021, 09:11 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simon-wilson-sir-john-key-the-smiling-assassin-is-back/4S7ISJNUWRLH3EVSCMPZEWE4OU/

Smiling Assassin is back.

Excerpt : "National Party leader Judith Collins: Has Key signalled her days are numbered?

She's got her own pandemic plan to announce this week and he just conjured a bunch of soundbites guaranteed to steal her thunder. It's hard to see that as anything but deliberate sabotage.

Key, on the whole a party loyalist, is fed up. So he's signalled that National should stop waiting for a more propitious moment to choose a new leader. He's read the tea leaves that we've all read: if they wait much longer they'll find themselves chasing Act. Last night's 1 News Colman Brunton poll will only have reinforced that.

Remember what they called him at Merrill Lynch? The smiling assassin just went to work."

Blue Skies
28-09-2021, 09:12 AM
I'm not sure what gives you that idea. Have you surveyed the other members of Labour?


I don't know what you mean?
And what's Labour MP's link to Judith Collins 5% in preferred PM poll?

Blue Skies
28-09-2021, 09:18 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simon-wilson-sir-john-key-the-smiling-assassin-is-back/4S7ISJNUWRLH3EVSCMPZEWE4OU/

Smiling Assassin is back.

Excerpt : "National Party leader Judith Collins: Has Key signalled her days are numbered?

She's got her own pandemic plan to announce this week and he just conjured a bunch of soundbites guaranteed to steal her thunder. It's hard to see that as anything but deliberate sabotage.

Key, on the whole a party loyalist, is fed up. So he's signalled that National should stop waiting for a more propitious moment to choose a new leader. He's read the tea leaves that we've all read: if they wait much longer they'll find themselves chasing Act. Last night's 1 News Colman Brunton poll will only have reinforced that.

Remember what they called him at Merrill Lynch? The smiling assassin just went to work."



I think you're right, probably also encouraged by some senior National party members & former senior MP's who see its time to get this train off this track before its too late.

BlackPeter
28-09-2021, 09:32 AM
Judith ‘Whaleoil’ Collins says she won’t resign, even if National drops below 20%. What an awful woman she is. Key has been more effective in 1 day than Collins has been in months - and it’s off the back of one solitary opinion piece. Collins is an egotistical narcissistic wrecking ball - demolishing National from the inside out.

Didn't thought I might at some stage agree with you, but in this case I do. Collins well might be the end of National as we know it ...

Might be though a more generic problem with conservative parties these days ... The German CDU (comparable to National) lost this week the election as well for picking a quite unpopular candidate ...

Power corrupts - and this is what Collins is currently demonstrating for anybody who didn't know yet.

fungus pudding
28-09-2021, 10:54 AM
I don't know what you mean?
And what's Labour MP's link to Judith Collins 5% in preferred PM poll?

I mean I am quite sure other members of Labour would be delighted to have another Muller, or a Curran as leader of National, but I've no idea what your second sentence means

Panda-NZ-
28-09-2021, 11:29 AM
Sir John often came within one seat of losing govt to a coalition (how mmp is designed to work).

Unfortunately national is too partisan to consider a "grand coalition" with labour.