If National wins ...

[BlackPeter]

So he should be - not that I agree with him, but I fully support free speech - whatever it is.

Are you sure? So - you would have supported Adolf Hitler at the time he called for the final solution of the Jewish question? He was using just words and surely free speech is allowed ?

I don't hope so.

Speech is actually the most dangerous tool available to us humans ... and no war, no genocide, no crusade and no witch hunt would have been possible without reckless and bad people using free speech to inflame and incite others to commit unspeakable crimes.

Any freedom needs to be regulated and balanced where its use impacts on the freedom of others ... and this is true for every right - including the right of free speech.

You don't have the right to make as much noise as you please on your property - if it infringes on the right of your neighbor to enjoy his property

You don't have the right to drive with unlimited speed over our roads, because the accident you might cause might limit someone else's right of living without injuries or living at all.

You don't have the right to discharge any firearm as you please, if you endanger other people standing in the shooting line.

And you clearly don't have the right to free speech if what you are saying is harming or likely to harm others.

Are you sure you are supporting crooks and liars rights to incite the masses in order to harm and kill others including yourself?

[fungus pudding]

Are you sure? So - you would have supported Adolf Hitler at the time he called for the final solution of the Jewish question? He was using just words and surely free speech is allowed ?

I don't hope so.

Speech is actually the most dangerous tool available to us humans ... and no war, no genocide, no crusade and no witch hunt would have been possible without reckless and bad people using free speech to inflame and incite others to commit unspeakable crimes.

Any freedom needs to be regulated and balanced where its use impacts on the freedom of others ... and this is true for every right - including the right of free speech.

You don't have the right to make as much noise as you please on your property - if it infringes on the right of your neighbor to enjoy his property

You don't have the right to drive with unlimited speed over our roads, because the accident you might cause might limit someone else's right of living without injuries or living at all.

You don't have the right to discharge any firearm as you please, if you endanger other people standing in the shooting line.

And you clearly don't have the right to free speech if what you are saying is harming or likely to harm others.

Are you sure you are supporting crooks and liars rights to incite the masses in order to harm and kill others including yourself?

Are you sure? Would you be quite happy for some dictatorial govt. to gain power and decide what can be said? No - we don't have the right to do those things you mention, or to incite others - they are controlled by laws. But laws controlling what we can say is going too far - what's next? Laws against what we think? I'll stick with my right to speak my mind.

[BlackPeter]

Are you sure? Would you be quite happy for some dictatorial govt. to gain power and decide what can be said? No - we don't have the right to do those things you mention - they are controlled by laws. But laws controlling what we can say is going too far - what's next? Laws against what we think? I'll stick with my right to speak my mind.

Well yes - I am sure that the right to free speech needs to end where it interferes with the legitimate rights of others ... and it needs to be balanced with the rights of others like any other right.

I don't think either that the argument of the dictatorial government is a flier.

No dictatorial government on this globe (and there are ways too many) does allow free speech - and free speech laws never prevented them from taking control. Quite easy - just take the government kill whoever resists and cr*p on the laws ...

I can't think about many examples where the right of free speech prevented a dictatorial dictatorship to establish itself or to end a dictatorial dictatorship, however I can think about endless examples where crooks used in weak democracies the right to free speech in order to establish their dictatorship.

The right to free speech brought Hitler into power. Trump used the right to free speech to spread his alternative realities and incite a riot. The idea of free speech stopped neither Stalin nor Putin nor Mao nor Xi suppressing their people.

We need to prevent dictatorial governments, but the way to do this is not to fight for unlimited free speech. Ask the people in Russia, or China, or Turkey or the Philippines or Iran or Syria on in 2/3rds of all countries of this globe.

The most important thing is not unlimited free speech but a democratically controlled government and the rule of law - and while the country of free speech (the US) is still sort of a democracy (but they left already a long time ago the "one man one vote" principle), they are already a long way down a slippery slope towards a dictatorship of a far right minority which uses the "right" of free speech to spread unlimited lies to the people. Are alternative facts covered by your right of unlimited free speech?

[fungus pudding]

Well yes - I am sure that the right to free speech needs to end where it interferes with the legitimate rights of others ... and it needs to be balanced with the rights of others like any other right.

I don't think either that the argument of the dictatorial government is a flier.

No dictatorial government on this globe (and there are ways too many) does allow free speech - and free speech laws never prevented them from taking control. Quite easy - just take the government kill whoever resists and cr*p on the laws ...

I can't think about many examples where the right of free speech prevented a dictatorial dictatorship to establish itself or to end a dictatorial dictatorship, however I can think about endless examples where crooks used in weak democracies the right to free speech in order to establish their dictatorship.

The right to free speech brought Hitler into power. Trump used the right to free speech to spread his alternative realities and incite a riot. The idea of free speech stopped neither Stalin nor Putin nor Mao nor Xi suppressing their people.

We need to prevent dictatorial governments, but the way to do this is not to fight for unlimited free speech. Ask the people in Russia, or China, or Turkey or the Philippines or Iran or Syria on in 2/3rds of all countries of this globe.

The most important thing is not unlimited free speech but a democratically controlled government and the rule of law - and while the country of free speech (the US) is still sort of a democracy (but they left already a long time ago the "one man one vote" principle), they are already a long way down a slippery slope towards a dictatorship of a far right minority which uses the "right" of free speech to spread unlimited lies to the people. Are alternative facts covered by your right of unlimited free speech?

Libel and defamation laws provide the remedy for 'alternative facts'. Trying to prevent certain types of speech, e.g hate speech (whatever that is) will never acheive anything.

[Bjauck]

Imagine, people like Israel Folau will be able to spout all that gays will go to hell & damnation stuff with complete impunity, Australian Rugby Union would not be able to terminate his contract under this law. Folau materially embellished a biblical passage, so would Morrison's "protection of religion from criticism" apply?

[Blue Skies]

Folau materially embellished a biblical passage, so would Morrison's "protection of religion from criticism" apply?


From what I understand the contentious 'Folau clause' which the Australian Christian Lobby successfully pressured the govt to include in the Bill (& would give someone legal protection expressing a statement of belief ), has now been dropped in an effort to get the Bill passed.
Coalition MP's are split over the final draft of the Bill with some saying it goes too far & others not far enough.

The Bill was an election promise Scott Morrison (who wants Australians to know he is a Pentecostal Christian ) made to various heads of churches prior to the last election.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/03/coalition-split-over-religious-discrimination-bill-with-one-mp-having-serious-concerns-over-folau-clause


Anyway we should probably go back to discussing the National party as getting a bit off topic.

[777]

Well Luxon has confirmed he will run.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-party-leadership-christopher-luxon-is-running-and-has-the-edge-on-numbers/7APVQSJXAYNUHY6FUWRHKJAPOI/

[BlackPeter]

Libel and defamation laws provide the remedy for 'alternative facts'. Trying to prevent certain types of speech, e.g hate speech (whatever that is) will never acheive anything.

Libel and defamation laws might work for people who have unlimited financial means. This is neither fair nor just.

It looks like we disagree that hate speech laws will never achieve anything, but sure - they won't be perfect - no law is.

(Some) people will always lie, steal and kill others no matter whether there is a law against it or not, and the same will apply to hate speech laws.

Still - they will help society to deal with the problem and manage it, and a problem it is.

[fungus pudding]

Libel and defamation laws might work for people who have unlimited financial means. This is neither fair nor just.

It looks like we disagree that hate speech laws will never achieve anything, but sure - they won't be perfect - no law is.

(Some) people will always lie, steal and kill others no matter whether there is a law against it or not, and the same will apply to hate speech laws.

Still - they will help society to deal with the problem and manage it, and a problem it is.

Do you think it's about time we sent a few undercover cops to listen in on the Friday night drinking schools at the pub - ready to pounce the moment someone calls homosexuals 'bluudy poofters'?
What about somone who says 'I can't stand Jacinda - she's ###', or 'I hope Soimon doesn't win - can't go the #####' How about 'I hate the minister of xyz." The first problem with hate speech is defining it.

[Balance]

Do you think it's about time we sent a few undercover cops to listen in on the Friday night drinking schools at the pub - ready to pounce the moment someone calls homosexuals 'bluudy poofters'?
What about somone who says 'I can't stand Jacinda - she's ###', or 'I hope Soimon doesn't win - can't go the #####' How about 'I hate the minister of xyz." The first problem with hate speech is defining it.

Which is why Kris 'I know nothing' Faafoi has gone into hiding with his bill on hate speech.

[Balance]

Shocking, the bill will allow people to override anti-discriminatory Federal laws, on the basis of a persons religious beliefs.
e.g. a school principal might not employ a gay teacher or discriminate against a gay student, or allow a business to discriminate against a person of another religion, or a doctor to object to certain procedures. They're even seeking assurances it won't allow discrimination against people with a physical disability.
After the Israel Folau incident, you would think they would have learnt their lesson but I suppose he got a lot of support from some religious groups.
Such a backward step.
Not much different to the Taliban.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/23/scott-morrison-promises-senate-inquiry-to-calm-fears-over-religious-discrimination-bill

So much hooha made of the bill without some of the posters here reading it and understanding it properly. The howls of protests from the Left - entirely predictable and laughable.

The bill is intended to tackle the pervasive 'Cancel Culture' of the Left and imo, is long overdue.

Even the Opposition in Australia is in support of the bill:

"In a statement the shadow attorney general, Mark Dreyfus, said Labor “supports the extension of the federal anti-discrimination framework to ensure that Australians are not discriminated against because of their religious beliefs”.

He added Labor would be guided by three principles including that “any extension of the federal anti-discrimination framework should not remove protections that already exist in the law to protect Australians from other forms of discrimination”.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/25/religious-discrimination-bill-introduced-scott-morrison-prime-minister-australia-lgbt-lgbtiq-catholic-christian-protections

The devil will always be in the detail but that's for the government to sort out as the bill passes through its various stages of approval before becoming law.

[BlackPeter]

Do you think it's about time we sent a few undercover cops to listen in on the Friday night drinking schools at the pub - ready to pounce the moment someone calls homosexuals 'bluudy poofters'?
What about somone who says 'I can't stand Jacinda - she's ###', or 'I hope Soimon doesn't win - can't go the #####' How about 'I hate the minister of xyz." The first problem with hate speech is defining it.

As everywhere else in the real world there is not black and white but there are shades of grey :):

However - despite all these shades of grey - black does exist.

I am sure there are some events where even the two of us could agree on the fact that the propagator did use hate speech (and I suppose that we could find more events we agree on as being labelled hate speech than just Hitlers speech on the Jewish question).

Lets start with these and increase the net if and when necessary.

And hey - just looking at the examples you provided, I would consider most of them not as "hate speech", though absolutely unnecessary to support a working democratic dialogue.

While it is an absolute must in a democracy to be able to express the failings of the other political side in words without the fear of sanctions (like I see this minister as incompetent, because ... or I see this decision as wrong, because ...), do I not see any benefit in being able to publicly inflict ones hate on other people or describe them with four letter words.

Being a bit more civilised in that regard would help a lot to lift the standard of the political dialogue.

Even incompetent minsters are human beings with human feelings ... and they might even change their ways if instead of expressing our hate for them and calling them four letter words we instead would identify issues and propose how they could be fixed :):

Related to your first example ... I think it would be good if people are taught to control their most dangerous weapon a bit better ... most people spouting this sort of non sense are just not used to use their brains to control their speech and neither able to put themselves into other peoples shoes. I think our world would be better if we find a way to teach people about using their brain before they speak ...

[Balance]

Related to your first example ... I think it would be good if people are taught to control their most dangerous weapon a bit better ... most people spouting this sort of non sense are just not used to use their brains to control their speech and neither able to put themselves into other peoples shoes. I think our world would be better if we find a way to teach people about using their brain before they speak ...

Or better still, find a way to stop politicians using spin (paid by taxpayers) to stay in power while they implement divisive, undemocratic & pro-criminal policies.

Start with the non eviction policy of this government.

[Blue Skies]

So much hooha made of the bill without some of the posters here reading it and understanding it properly. The howls of protests from the Left - entirely predictable and laughable.

The bill is intended to tackle the pervasive 'Cancel Culture' of the Left and imo, is long overdue.

Even the Opposition in Australia is in support of the bill:

"In a statement the shadow attorney general, Mark Dreyfus, said Labor “supports the extension of the federal anti-discrimination framework to ensure that Australians are not discriminated against because of their religious beliefs”.

He added Labor would be guided by three principles including that “any extension of the federal anti-discrimination framework should not remove protections that already exist in the law to protect Australians from other forms of discrimination”.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/25/religious-discrimination-bill-introduced-scott-morrison-prime-minister-australia-lgbt-lgbtiq-catholic-christian-protections

The devil will always be in the detail but that's for the government to sort out as the bill passes through its various stages of approval before becoming law.



You make it sound so simple when its much more complex.
In fact there are MP's in the Coalition govt as well as MP's in the Liberals who are uncomfortable with aspects of the controversial bill, and it has already been amended at least 3 times diluting its original intent, dropping clauses which have been deemed too extreme.

"Scott Morrison's reassurance that the Bill would protect freedom of belief & expression, but stopped short of allowing discrimination against others, was disputed by some Coaltion MP's, with many expressing concern in Tuesdays party room meting about it's impact on minority groups."

Note, Coalition MP's let alone Equality advocates & others.

In all probability the bill will eventually get passed, in a watered down form, but Australian politics is an unusual sort of a beast.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/23/scott-morrison-promises-senate-inquiry-to-calm-fears-over-religious-discrimination-bill

[Balance]

You make it sound so simple when its much more complex.
In fact there are MP's in the Coalition govt as well as MP's in the Liberals who are uncomfortable with aspects of the controversial bill, and it has already been amended at least 3 times diluting its original intent, dropping clauses which have been deemed too extreme.

"Scott Morrison's reassurance that the Bill would protect freedom of belief & expression, but stopped short of allowing discrimination against others, was disputed by some Coaltion MP's, with many expressing concern in Tuesdays party room meting about it's impact on minority groups."

Note, Coalition MP's let alone Equality advocates & others.

In all probability the bill will eventually get passed, in a watered down form, but Australian politics is an unusual sort of a beast.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/23/scott-morrison-promises-senate-inquiry-to-calm-fears-over-religious-discrimination-bill


The intent is simple - that much is crystal clear as the Opposition also supports it.

As I wrote, the devil is in the details and that’s why there is a submission and consultation process before it becomes law.

What is clear is that the Cancel Cancer brigade is inventing scenarios to try & drown the bill - thank goodness they are not going to succeed as such a law is long overdue.

[Panda-NZ-]

What is clear is that the Cancel Cancer brigade is inventing scenarios to try & drown the bill - thank goodness they are not going to succeed as such a law is long overdue.

The middle east is not a success story we should want to copy.

[Balance]

The middle east is not a success story we should want to copy.

You would prefer NZ continue the path towards Apartheid South Africa.

[couta1]

You would prefer NZ continue the path towards Apartheid South Africa. A few on here seem quite happy to go down that path or are in denial that it is happening right before their eyes.

[BlackPeter]

A few on here seem quite happy to go down that path or are in denial that it is happening right before their eyes.

You can't be that blind or dumb to repeat the braindead argument of some idiotic antivaxxers again and again and again, can you?

Apartheit meant the suppression of one race through another race, and nobody could do something about the race they were born into.

Vaccination status is something everybody can easily control. Nothing stopping you to join the vaccinated and enjoy all their freedoms but the big beam in front of your head ...

[couta1]

You can't be that blind or dumb to repeat the braindead argument of some idiotic antivaxxers again and again and again, can you?

Apartheit meant the suppression of one race through another race, and nobody could do something about the race they were born into.

Vaccination status is something everybody can easily control. Nothing stopping you to join the vaccinated and enjoy all their freedoms but the big beam in front of your head ... Apartheid simply means apartness, apartness happens when any particular race is shown favouritism or given more resources in a disproportionate way in comparison to others races in a country (Ring any bells) I wasn't addressing the vaccine with my post but seems you have mentioned it, yes the vaccine mandate and passport system is a form of Medical Apartheid.

[winner69]

Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled

[BlackPeter]

Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled

You mean Luxon might be Nationals Little?

No sure he has got what it takes ...

Little is one of these hard working people, able to take command, shape the team but as well prepared to step back if its for the better of the team. Lots of transpiration but admittedly not too much shine. As well - Little had a lot of political experience.

I don't think we can say the same things about Luxon. He comes across as self focussed, never had to work in a political environment - and seriously - could you see him stepping back for the good of the team?

Reti might be Nationals Little, but I doubt they give him the chance to do his good work ...

[Blue Skies]

You would prefer NZ continue the path towards Apartheid South Africa.


You seem to be unaware of the fact it was the previous National Govt which signed NZ up to the 'UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples', not Labour!
This committed us to improving outcomes for Maori in areas such as health & housing where they are significant lower than the rest of the population.

A quick look back, way back in 2007 when the UN Declaration was issued, PM at the time Helen Clark thought it wasn't compatible with NZ law and would cause all sorts of problems & declined to sign it.
We were left in an awkward position after Australia, Canada & the US subsequently signed up to it leaving NZ as an outlier.

Later in 2010, National under PM John Key, signed NZ up to the UN Declaration, saying NZ had always supported its ideals.

In 2019 the Labour govt set up a working group to make a plan to improve outcomes for Maori as statistics showed Maori health & housing & education falling further & further behind the rest of the population.

The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.

[Panda-NZ-]

Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled

Hehe.. the stability of conservative parties overseas leaves much to be desired.

11 years of Tony blair compared to the blue team shambles.

[Getty]

You seem to be unaware of the fact it was the previous National Govt which signed NZ up to the 'UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples', not Labour!
This committed us to improving outcomes for Maori in areas such as health & housing where they are significant lower than the rest of the population.

A quick look back, way back in 2007 when the UN Declaration was issued, PM at the time Helen Clark thought it wasn't compatible with NZ law and would cause all sorts of problems & declined to sign it.
We were left in an awkward position after Australia, Canada & the US subsequently signed up to it leaving NZ as an outlier.

Later in 2010, National under PM John Key, signed NZ up to the UN Declaration, saying NZ had always supported its ideals.

In 2019 the Labour govt set up a working group to make a plan to improve outcomes for Maori as statistics showed Maori health & housing & education falling further & further behind the rest of the population.

The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.

UN = United Nutters.

Judith Collins on first trip to UN, Geneva, UN committee for elimination of racial discrimination.

During the meeting she was asked questions by the committee along the lines of;
"why does NZ not allow Maori to play sport? That would keep Maori out of jail"

How does NZ deal with ethnic violence at football games?
The questioner didn't believe her when she said its not an issue, and never has been.
She dare not mention the term ALL Blacks, so instead had to ask them if they had heard of NZ world champion sports people who are Maori?
NZ regularly appears at UN for reviews of this kind.

Source: Judith Collins book, Pull no punches, well worth reading IMO.

Move onto 2041, same committee.

To the associate delegate from Aotearoa, Chloe Swarbrick.

"why does NZ treat whiteys so badly, and what led to so many divisive policies being legislated against them"?

[Balance]

Y
The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.

Read this first :

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/01/graham-adams-jacinda-ardern-and-the-ghost-of-david-lange/

Then, we can have a meaningful discussion on whether this government is truly helping Maoris achieve desirable & positive outcomes for them & NZ.

[artemis]

.... The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild. Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.....

Good chance I have more knowledge of the issues than many on this site. Because I worked for years in the specifically Maori sector, and then more in a sector with a lot of Maori clients, many low income. I whakapapa to one of the 7 canoes, am a Maori land owner.

My extended family, and that is a lot of people, were very fortunate to have elders who valued education, hard work and thrift. The flow on effect from that set generations of my family up to succeed, many are professionals, none have been in prison, only one of my many cousins has been on a benefit for an extended period and used that time to train as a kindy teacher. Mind you, most of of the family now live away from the marae, many in Australia and are raising families there.

The net of that is they live like everyone else, while retaining family links and the aspects of the culture they choose. And they are, in my opinion, the majority that do not appear anywhere in the bad stats.

[fungus pudding]

You mean Luxon might be Nationals Little?

No sure he has got what it takes ...



Neither is he. He hasn't been there long enough to even know what it takes.

[Getty]

Read this first :

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/01/graham-adams-jacinda-ardern-and-the-ghost-of-david-lange/

Then, we can have a meaningful discussion on whether this government is truly helping Maoris achieve desirable & positive outcomes for them & NZ.

An article everyone should read.

A difference I see between Lange and Adhern is that Lange did not see himself as a comrade.

Comrades believe in revolution and destruction.

[Balance]

An article everyone should read.

A difference I see between Lange and Adhern is that Lange did not see himself as a comrade.

Comrades believe in revolution and destruction.

And she is power hungry and lusts after the idolisation which she gets from employing an army of spin doctors and staff.

Lange told it as it was.

And he was not clueless, had a conscience which ultimately cost him his job. A man of integrity.

[Panda-NZ-]

Comrades believe in revolution and destruction.

Jacinda worked for Tony blair.

The most successful UK govt ever, aside from the unfortunate Iraq issue.

[Blue Skies]

Funny that, on a lighter note, calls for unity seem to be falling on deaf ears.
They can't even agree on where the post caucus announcement will be made!
A National party spokesman said, 'we have a situation where one potential leader wants the old Legislative Council Chamber and the other wants the Beehive Banquet Hall.
So they've had to book both!
So much for getting rid of the division & disfunction, must be so disheartening for the dwindling few MP's like Reti who put the country ahead of self interest.

Last time, caucus all came out & stood behind Judith Collins in a show of unity. Wasn't long before the bluster turned to custard.
This time, maybe they should carry the new leader out on their shoulders.:)

Chris Luxon won't want to tarnish his future prospects with a lost vote, expect him to pull out if he thinks he's going to lose.

[Getty]

Jacinda worked for Tony blair.

The most successful UK govt ever, aside from the unfortunate Iraq issue.

What, cooking his fish & chips?

The poms like a good feed of fish & chips, as much as any kiwi!

[Panda-NZ-]

As a "senior policy advisor".

If you want to build things up, rather than tear things down, then you need sound policies.

[fungus pudding]

Luxon Announced as the new leader. He might be alright. Certainly better than Judith.

[Balance]

Funny that, on a lighter note, calls for unity seem to be falling on deaf ears.
They can't even agree on where the post caucus announcement will be made!
A National party spokesman said, 'we have a situation where one potential leader wants the old Legislative Council Chamber and the other wants the Beehive Banquet Hall.
So they've had to book both!
So much for getting rid of the division & disfunction, must be so disheartening for the dwindling few MP's like Reti who put the country ahead of self interest.

Last time, caucus all came out & stood behind Judith Collins in a show of unity. Wasn't long before the bluster turned to custard.
This time, maybe they should carry the new leader out on their shoulders.:)

Chris Luxon won't want to tarnish his future prospects with a lost vote, expect him to pull out if he thinks he's going to lose.

Wrong, wrong and wrong from the media & your interpretation.

Read the article on Cindy vs Lange yet?

[Sgt Pepper]

Luxon Announced as the new leader. He might be alright. Certainly better than Judith.

No doubt Labour will be delighted with his election. The most likely outcome will be ACT accounting for 20% at the next election.
For Labour I still think there is a high probability of Jacinda announcing that she will relinquish the leadership of the Labour party next November /December

[Getty]

For Labour I still think there is a high probability of Jacinda announcing that she will relinquish the leadership of the Labour party next November /December

Why is that Sarge?

Any nominations for replacement?

[ratkin]

Pleased Luxon won, Bridges far too smug and slippery to be very popular, he already failed before/
Luxon would be a good man for the markets if we could just get rid of labour

[ratkin]

No doubt Labour will be delighted with his election. The most likely outcome will be ACT accounting for 20% at the next election.
For Labour I still think there is a high probability of Jacinda announcing that she will relinquish the leadership of the Labour party next November /December

Only way she would leave is if she moves to a high profile global role, she has always been more concerned about her world image than the good of the country

[Panda-NZ-]

Pleased Luxon won, Bridges far too smug and slippery to be very popular, he already failed before/
Luxon would be a good man for the markets if we could just get rid of labour

Will never get the 50.1% necessary.

No charisma at all.

[Getty]

Funny that, on a lighter note,

A National party spokesman said, 'we have a situation where one potential leader wants the old Legislative Council Chamber and the other wants the Beehive Banquet Hall.
So they've had to book both!

This time, maybe they should carry the new leader out on their shoulders.:)



No worries, Big Gerry will shoulder that responsibility, and his preference will be the Banquet hall...

[Panda-NZ-]

How long until the united team starts leaking to the media or even Labour.

Jacinda will know their policies before they do lol.

[777]

Will never get the 50.1% necessary.

No charisma at all.

But then neither will Jacinda get 50.1% again. Very hard with an MMP system.

[Getty]

With reference to the former leader, some say Crusher, some say Kamikaze, but no burn outs before she come and Crush a carsie.

[iceman]

Nicola Willis announced as Deputy to Luxon

[Blue Skies]

Nicola Willis announced as Deputy to Luxon


Todd Mulller /Nikki Kaye ,Mark II

Seriously though could be good, pull back some National voters from ACT.

[Balance]

Todd Mulller /Nikki Kaye ,Mark II

Seriously though could be good, pull back some National voters from ACT.

Better than Clueless Cindy, Willie Jackson, Poto Williams, Kris Faafoi & Kelvin Davis.

Read this yet :

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/01/graham-adams-jacinda-ardern-and-the-ghost-of-david-lange/

Then we can have a meaningful discussion about where NZ is heading under COCID Cindy.

[iceman]

Todd Mulller /Nikki Kaye ,Mark II

Seriously though could be good, pull back some National voters from ACT.

The make up and positions on the front bench will now be the all important decisions for Luxon. He needs to get that right.

[fungus pudding]

Todd Mulller /Nikki Kaye ,Mark II

Seriously though could be good, pull back some National voters from ACT.

More likely from Labour. Next poll will be very very interesting.

Jones is usually on the mark with his reading of the poitical happenings.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/11/30/the-end-of-jacindamania/

[Panda-NZ-]

We already have a decent economy though, so nothing for national to run on (not that they were any good at their core mission).

[Blue Skies]

Better than Clueless Cindy, Willie Jackson, Poto Williams, Kris Faafoi & Kelvin Davis.

Read this yet :

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/01/graham-adams-jacinda-ardern-and-the-ghost-of-david-lange/

Then we can have a meaningful discussion about where NZ is heading under COCID Cindy.



Who's COCID Cindy?

Better decompress Balance, not good for your health to be so tightly coiled & wound up all the time.

I think you've posted this link a number of times before, but i'ld be more interested in your views & reasons.
Its a bit early to speculate on how history will judge Adern, and just another opinion piece from the writers on who/what is driving policy.

But once again you're deflecting away from the points I was making, which was National not Labour committed NZ & set us on to this course, & its slightly absurd to label it as apartheid.
Whatever it is, co-governance, partnership, parallel development etc, & whether anyone agrees with it or not, it is not apartheid & foolish to call it such.


Can we leave the meaningful discussion about where NZ is heading for another time? :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Who's COCID Cindy?

Better decompress Balance, not good for your health to be so tightly coiled & wound up all the time.

I think you've posted this link a number of times before, but i'ld be more interested in your views & reasons.
Its a bit early to speculate on how history will judge Adern, and just another opinion piece from the writers on who/what is driving policy.

But once again you're deflecting away from the points I was making, which was National not Labour committed NZ & set us on to this course, & its slightly absurd to label it as apartheid.
Whatever it is, co-governance, partnership, parallel development etc, & whether anyone agrees with it or not, it is not apartheid & foolish to call it such.


Can we leave the meaningful discussion about where NZ is heading for another time? :)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_and_Coastal_Area_(Takutai_Moana)_Act_2011

Authored by Sir John Key.. while being opposed by Labour, NZF, Act and the greens.

[Balance]

We already have a decent economy though, so nothing for national to run on (not that they were any good at their core mission).

An economy on artificial steroids - borrowed money to the tune of $1 billion per week - 26% GDP of debt to generate less than 7% of GDP growth.

As useless a government as ever could be.

[Balance]

Who's COCID Cindy?

Better decompress Balance, not good for your health to be so tightly coiled & wound up all the time.

I think you've posted this link a number of times before, but i'ld be more interested in your views & reasons.
Its a bit early to speculate on how history will judge Adern, and just another opinion piece from the writers on who/what is driving policy.

But once again you're deflecting away from the points I was making, which was National not Labour committed NZ & set us on to this course, & its slightly absurd to label it as apartheid.
Whatever it is, co-governance, partnership, parallel development etc, & whether anyone agrees with it or not, it is not apartheid & foolish to call it such.


Can we leave the meaningful discussion about where NZ is heading for another time? :)

When a minority is given preferential rights and access based upon race as a criteria, it is apartheid.

Simple.

[Panda-NZ-]

An economy on artificial steroids - borrowed money to the tune of $1 billion per week - 26% GDP of debt to generate less than 7% of GDP growth.

As useless a government as ever could be.

They were in govt for a whole three years before then, when the stock market nearly doubled.

[Balance]

Good speech.

Note the pointed barbs at Clueless ‘all spin & no delivery’ Cindy.

Ouch!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300466781/christopher-luxon-says-national-is-back-as-he-pitches-to-the-voters-the-party-lost-in-2020

He should have said ‘10,000 new homes a year’ headline grabbing announcement. Delivery - less than 300 a year.

[iceman]

Good speech.

Note the pointed barbs at Clueless ‘all spin & no delivery’ Cindy.

Ouch!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300466781/christopher-luxon-says-national-is-back-as-he-pitches-to-the-voters-the-party-lost-in-2020

He should have said ‘10,000 new homes a year’ headline grabbing announcement. Delivery - less than 300 a year.

Certainly refreshing to see a politician listen to questions and give straight, clear answers, unlike all the Ministers in the Ardern Government

[Balance]

Certainly refreshing to see a politician listen to questions and give straight, clear answers, unlike all the Ministers in the Ardern Government

All of Cindy’s ministers are sent to Spin school and it is a requirement that they do a refresher course every six months on how to spin.

[Swala]

Certainly refreshing to see a politician listen to questions and give straight, clear answers, unlike all the Ministers in the Ardern Government

Agreed. Hopefully this represents a real turning point for National. Luxon is real Prime Minister material, something neither Collins or Bridges could ever project.

[fungus pudding]

Agreed. Hopefully this represents a real turning point for National. Luxon is real Prime Minister material, something neither Collins or Bridges could ever project.
Yes. Will lift the mood of the country. And the sharemarket. And a few posters on this site. But not Jacinda.

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes. Will lift the mood of the country. And the sharemarket. And a few posters on this site. But not Jacinda.

He's her dream opponent I think, other than judith. New Zealand's mitt romney .

[Balance]

He's her dream opponent I think, other than judith. New Zealand's mitt romney .

Sense the panic now with the indoctrinated Cindy devotees? :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

Sense the panic now with the indoctrinated Cindy devotees? :t_up:

You said the same thing with todd muller. Need some new lines.

[Getty]

This will go down like a lead balloon,

But Luxon reminded me of an early Muldoon.

Same barber too, no one will be able to say he's having a bad hair day!

Now, I wonder if he can go ha ha ha ha?

[Panda-NZ-]

Obama had 8.1% unemployment and still beat Mitt romney.

Jacinda has 3.4%.
Luxon forgot to mention the renewed "hope" that many NZers now have who couldn't get a job under the previous government.

[Balance]

Obama had 8.1% unemployment and still beat Mitt romney.

Jacinda has 3.4%. Luxon forgot to mention the "hope" that many NZers now have who couldn't get a job under the previous government.

Keep going. :t_up:

This is NZ and the Labour Party government under Clueless Cindy today :

"The party faction that exerts disproportionate control in Ardern’s government has been hiding in plain sight for some time.

In May, former MP Tau Henare made it clear on TVNZ’s Q&A panel exactly who was calling the tune. Asked by host Jack Tame what he thought about Willie Jackson securing more than a billion dollars in the Budget for Maori initiatives, Henare replied: “At the end of the day, what this says is about [Maori] being around the table — in numbers — so that you can say to your mates: ‘Hey, take it or leave it. We can always leave.’”

Left-wing blogger Martyn Bradbury echoed these sentiments: “It didn’t matter that the Māori Party sat at John Key’s table when John Key owned the table. [But] the Māori Labour caucus reminds Jacinda she owns the table BECAUSE of them.”

The audaciousness of the Three Waters programme makes the heft of the Maori caucus’ power and of its Cabinet allies obvious. One of its principal purposes — and which forms an immoveable bottom line — is to hand 50:50 co-governance to iwi. And, no doubt, the right to extract royalties as well.

He Puapua itself states increased Māori rangatiratanga will require financing and that, “There are multiple streams from which financial contributions might be sourced, including, for example, levies on resource use where Māori have a strong claim to ownership, such as water.”

Auckland QC Gary Judd came to similar conclusions when he analysed the proposed water reforms. In his analysis he wrote: “Councils now own drinking water, wastewater and stormwater assets, directly or indirectly. That will change. Only iwi/Māori will have ownership rights. Directly in some respects, indirectly in others. Local authorities will have none."

Selling NZers down the river in a waka - that's Cindy.

[Getty]

This will go down like a lead balloon,

But Luxon reminded me of an early Muldoon.

Same barber too, no one will be able to say he's having a bad hair day!

Now, I wonder if he can go ha ha ha ha?

Any Wallies in the Labour Party for him to attack?

[Panda-NZ-]

A shame that Brett hudson left the party, he would have made for an ok finance spokesperson.

The Luxon/Doocey/Hudson team

[couta1]

Yes. Will lift the mood of the country. And the sharemarket. And a few posters on this site. But not Jacinda. Cindy be off to the UN in due course so doubt she's worried. Lol

[couta1]

Agreed. Hopefully this represents a real turning point for National. Luxon is real Prime Minister material, something neither Collins or Bridges could ever project. Not before time, we desperately need to exit the dark tunnel we currently find ourselves in under the "Red Ice Queen".

[Panda-NZ-]

David might lose his support and get back under 5% (poll average of 2% under Simon).

[Bill Smith]

Dave might lose his support and get back under 5% now (poll average of 2% under Simon).

It's time for an adjustment to the unfair coat-tail rules.

Why did you wait for Jim Anderton to die before suggesting that? It's different when labour does it?

[Getty]

What does it mean to be an evangelical Christian?

Chris Trotter discusses it in this article.

“Chris Luxon has been identified as an evangelical Christian. That’s why I believe Chris Luxon owes New Zealanders a working definition of evangelical Christianity – and how he intends to practice it.

A private matter? Well, that might be true if Luxon was a person moving into private life.

What, then, is generally understood by the term Christian evangelism? At its core, evangelism is about the active spreading of Christ’s teachings – especially among those who are ignorant of his message. For a politician to identify himself as an evangelical Christian is, therefore, a matter of considerable importance.

If such politicians are genuine in their self-characterisation, then they will take every opportunity their public office provides to proselytise on behalf of their faith. They will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices they believe to be evil. To do all they can to save the souls of those who are in the grip of sin. Christian evangelism is, above all else, faith in action.”

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/11/08/chosen-to-rule-what-sort-of-christian-is-chris-luxon/

Was this card overplayed by Mr Luxon's political foes ?

Turns out he has not been to church for 5 yrs, from NZ Herald.

Will that now make him a sinner in the eyes of those foes?

[Panda-NZ-]

Was this card overplayed by Mr Luxon's opponents ?

Turns out he has not been to church for 5 yrs, from NZ Herald.

Will that now make him a sinner in the eyes of the opponents?

Yet talks about his faith in political discussions (so much for church and state seperation)

[justakiwi]

...........

[Panda-NZ-]

Why did you wait for Jim Anderton to die before suggesting that? It's different when labour does it?

There was a referendum in 2011 to try and remove MMP and let a minority rule over NZ.

Dave should have to justify why 1/20 of voters should vote for him

[fungus pudding]

There was a referendum in 2011 to try and remove MMP and let a minority rule over NZ.

Dave should have to justify why 1/20 of voters should vote for him.

Another ridiculous comment. It's the voters who decide who to vote for. Not the candidate.

[iceman]

Another ridiculous comment. It's the voters who decide who to vote for. Not the candidate.

That's putting it mildly to say the least

[Getty]

Looks like they blue it.

[Balance]

Watching closely what Luxon does with Dr Shane Reti - unquestionably one of the most respected MPs, if not the most, currently in Parliament.

Play this one right and there will be huge upside to National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127141677/why-dr-shane-reti-wasnt-a-contender-for-national-party-leader

[fungus pudding]

Watching closely what Luxon does with Dr Shane Reti - unquestionably one of the most respected MPs, if not the most, currently in Parliament.

Play this one right and there will be huge upside to National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127141677/why-dr-shane-reti-wasnt-a-contender-for-national-party-leader

No doubt he's a bright boy. With his qualifications he could do your books, sort your GST and examine your gonads all in one appointment. But a savant??? Not sure about that.

[Panda-NZ-]

He'll need to stay in as a diversity token. Unless Bridges is given a good role.

[fungus pudding]

He'll need to stay in as a diversity token. Unless Bridges is given a good role.

Another post for mindreaders. Who will?

[Balance]

He'll need to stay in as a diversity token. Unless Bridges is given a good role.

You must be thinking of the token browns in Cindy’s cabinet - Poto(loo) Williams, Kris (invisible man) Faafoi, Kelvin (prisoners first, gangs second & the law last) Davis?

Shane Reti = the whole of Clueless Cindy’s brown cabinet members.

Notice how the self-made, well qualified and intelligent Maoris join National?

Thanks for highlighting the difference, panda.

[fungus pudding]

Last poll (TV1) had Labour at 41% and National at 28%. (13 point difference)
My prediction is that gap will close to maximum difference of 3 points (either way) by first poll of 2022.

[Panda-NZ-]

Act to be below 5% during the same timeframe?

Eventually reverting to the long term trend of 2%.

[fungus pudding]

Act to be below 5% during the same timeframe?

Eventually reverting to the long term trend of 2%.

Act will stay at 9% or more.

[Balance]

Last poll (TV1) had Labour at 41% and National at 28%. (13 point difference)
My prediction is that gap will close to maximum difference of 3 points (either way) by first poll of 2022.

A strong possibility of National getting back to 36%, Labour down to 37% within the next 2 polls.

Let’s hope Cindy continues to push 3 Waters, keep Poto(loo) in her job and the gangs continue to receive plenty of support from this pro-criminal government.

[Panda-NZ-]

We have a strong economy though (with few corona issues) so unlikely.

[fungus pudding]

We have a strong economy though (with few corona issues) so unlikely.

Another post for mindreaders. What is unlikely?

[Balance]

We have a strong economy though (with few corona issues) so unlikely.

7% GDP growth from borrowing 26% GDP worth of debt. $1 billion of borrowings a week - classic Labour’s borrow and hope policies.

And this time, tens of billions of dollars of borrowed money being thrown into completely unproductive activities like wage subsidies, gang activities, competing with private sector to buy properties for unworthy state tenants - because of COVID & economic mismanagement.

[Panda-NZ-]

Full employment!

Wage rises on the way hopefully, unless National gets in.

[Bill Smith]

A shame that Brett hudson left the party, he would have made for an ok finance spokesperson.

The Luxon/Doocey/Hudson team

If it's OK to lampoon the "looks" of those 3, is it OK to lampoon ardern based on HER looks? That's a pretty fertile field.

[westerly]

Another post for mindreaders. Who will?

If Balance can work it out why can't you ?

westerly

[Panda-NZ-]

If it's OK to lampoon the "looks" of those 3, is it OK to lampoon ardern based on HER looks? That's a pretty fertile field.

She is good enough to feature on vogue magazine, among other things.

[Panda-NZ-]

Remember when Sir bill said that low wages are good and a source of competitive advantage.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/general/bill-english-nzs-low-wages-an-advantage-2011041105

[Bill Smith]

She is good enough to feature on vogue magazine, among other things.

Photoshopped and airbrushed up the wazzoo or else that would have really scared the horses.

[justakiwi]

Would you make comments like that, if the PM was a man?


Photoshopped and airbrushed up the wazzoo or else that would have really scared the horses.

[Balance]

Photoshopped and airbrushed up the wazzoo or else that would have really scared the horses.

Cindy without the make up and air brushing is a frightful sight these days.

She is not going to last long in politics at this rate - too much spinning and she has got herself dizzily mangled in the looks dept.

[Balance]

Full employment!

Wage rises on the way hopefully, unless National gets in.

87,000 unemployed out there today, plus a few hundred thousands happy to live off their benefits.

[Getty]

Cindy without the make up and air brushing is a frightful sight these days.

She is not going to last long in politics at this rate - too much spinning and she has got herself dizzily mangled in the looks dept.

All this being kind, shouting everyone except the taxpayer has left her rather hoarse..

[Panda-NZ-]

87,000 unemployed out there today, plus a few hundred thousands happy to live off their benefits.

More did when National was in.

Well, now kiwis have more opportunity to work since 2017.

[Balance]

More did when National was in.

Well, now kiwis have more opportunity to work since 2017.

Heaps more beneficiaries living off the taxpayers under Cindy.

How about Whanau Ora?

[Panda-NZ-]

Heaps more beneficiaries living off the taxpayers under Cindy.

How about Whanau Ora?

No businesses would have lived off taxpayers under national with all the special subsidies in 2020 which voters rejected.

[iceman]

He'll need to stay in as a diversity token. Unless Bridges is given a good role.

What a racists comment. Why would such a highly qualified person be a "diversity token"

[Balance]

No businesses would have lived off taxpayers under national with all the special subsidies in 2020 which voters rejected.

What about Whanau Ora?

[Balance]

What a racists comment. Why would such a highly qualified person be a "diversity token"

That’s ok - says everything about why the browns like Poto, Kris & Kelvin are muddling their way in Cindy’s cabinet.

[fungus pudding]

Would you make comments like that, if the PM was a man?

Are you saying they've given the job to a woman !!:eek2:

[Balance]

Are you saying they've given the job to a woman !!:eek2:

Good one, fp!

You got her good there! :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

The Labour party does look like NZ.

The alternative probably not (though act does a bit better).

[Getty]

are you saying they've given the job to a woman !!:eek2:

who???????

[justakiwi]

Nah mate. All he did was join you in the Kindergarten sandpit. You are perfect for each other.


Good one, fp!

You got her good there! :t_up:

[Getty]

There was a bloke called Helen Clark did it a few years ago.

[Panda-NZ-]

Lux knows how to run a good rort. Two of his seven properties are leased to taxpayers (hasn't he taken enough already as the highest paid public servant).

[Getty]

Lux knows how to run a good rort. Two of his seven properties are leased to taxpayers (hasn't he taken enough already as the highest paid public servant).

We had Teflon Key, now we've got soapy LUX on the job, so you better scrub up well!

[Bill Smith]

Would you make comments like that, if the PM was a man?

If the left think it's OK to dis Luxon for his appearance, it must be OK to point out that ardern is not now an oil painting.

[Panda-NZ-]

If the left think it's OK to dis Luxon for his appearance, it must be OK to point out that ardern is not now an oil painting.

True, she's on vogue magazine and woman's weekly.

[Getty]

She wont make it to Penthouse or Playboy.

Gotta leave something to the imagination eh?

Mind you, isn't transparency about the bare facts and the naked truth?

[justakiwi]

I have never dissed him for his appearance. I have also never seen a man in this forum criticise another man's physical appearance, the way they do with women.

So much male insecurity here.






If the left think it's OK to dis Luxon for his appearance, it must be OK to point out that ardern is not now an oil painting.

[Bill Smith]

True, she's on vogue magazine and woman's weekly.

And the Karaka News?

[Bill Smith]

I have never dissed him for his appearance. I have also never seen a man in this forum criticise another man's physical appearance, the way they do with women.

So much male insecurity here.

Who said you did. Panda did though and you thought it necessary to intrude.

[couta1]

If the left think it's OK to dis Luxon for his appearance, it must be OK to point out that ardern is not now an oil painting. I don't care what she looks like, its the intent and motives of the woman I find distasteful.

[justakiwi]

So now there is a new forum rule that states one must never respond to a post that wasn't directed at them specifically? Or let me guess ....it only applies to me.


Who said you did. Panda did though and you thought it necessary to intrude.

[BlackPeter]

That’s ok - says everything about why the browns like Poto, Kris & Kelvin are muddling their way in Cindy’s cabinet.

That's a nasty comment. Shame on you for being racist.

[Balance]

That's a nasty comment. Shame on you for being racist.

Interesting how you let panda’s comment about Shane Reti being a token Maori pass but my direct reference to the useless browns in Cindy’s cabinet is considered racist?

Are they not brown? And is brown not an acceptable grouping of Pacifica people?

Is brown a derogatory term? Maybe it tells more of you than the rest of us.

And they are useless. So what reason is there for them to be in cabinet, except as tokenism because they have done nothing good.

[justakiwi]

Very simple really. No, it's not.


And is brown not an acceptable grouping of Pacifica people?

[Panda-NZ-]

Interesting how you let panda’s comment about Shane Reti being a token Maori pass but my direct reference to the useless browns in Cindy’s cabinet is considered racist?


It's only in proportion to what is said here.

Don't you have some sort of job to be doing or do we have to read this stuff every day?

[couta1]

Very simple really. No, it's not. The correct term is Coloured or people of Colour.

[Balance]

It's only in proportion to what is said here.

Don't you have some sort of job to be doing ?

What about Whanau Ora?

What are you doing here, posting garbage by the tonne?

[Balance]

The correct term is Coloured or people of Colour.

Noted and observed.

White is not a colour?

[fungus pudding]

The correct term is Coloured or people of Colour.

You seem to be saying -
Coloured is alright.
People of colour is alright.
Brown or brown skinned is not alright?
I've never heard that before.
Where on earth did you get that idea from?
It's certainly news to me.

[couta1]

You seem to be saying -
Coloured is alright.
People of colour is alright.
Brown or brown skinned is not alright?
I've never heard that before.
Where on earth did you get that idea from?
It's certainly news to me. I'm glad its news to you cause that means you can go and do some research on the topic, In SA and many other countries people are referred to as either White, Coloured or Black. It always makes me laugh when I see black power members with their patches cause they are not black but coloured.

[BlackPeter]

Interesting how you let panda’s comment about Shane Reti being a token Maori pass but my direct reference to the useless browns in Cindy’s cabinet is considered racist?

Are they not brown? And is brown not an acceptable grouping of Pacifica people?

Is brown a derogatory term? Maybe it tells more of you than the rest of us.

And they are useless. So what reason is there for them to be in cabinet, except as tokenism because they have done nothing good.

I understand - it must be really difficult for you to see with this huge beam in front of your eyes ... or did it grow already into the head? This must be really painful :p.

Just wondering about all the useless fair skinned people of European descent in the Labour cabinet?

Are they only there to make up the Pakeha quota?

See - this is what I mean with you being a racist ... and as it appears a pretty thick as well.

Some people are capable and others are inept, but this has nothing to do with the colour of their skin or with their descent.

You are a racist and I recon you are fair skinned. Does not mean that all fair skinned people are racist, there are as well some decent fair skinned people around.

Must feel good for you that you are not just the Pakeha quota for racists, doesn't it? It is you who is behaving that despicable, not some group of people you may or may not belong to. It is just you, balance.

Thank you for your racism ...

[Bill Smith]

So now there is a new forum rule that states one must never respond to a post that wasn't directed at them specifically? Or let me guess ....it only applies to me.

I see why Beagle has you on ignore.

[777]

Who said you did. Panda did though and you thought it necessary to intrude.

If you want a private conversation with Panda then use the personal message facility. Anybody can contribute otherwise.

[justakiwi]

I make no apologies for having the balls to call people out when they deserve it. You are free to follow his suit and put me on ignore.


I see why Beagle has you on ignore.

[Balance]

I understand - it must be really difficult for you to see with this huge beam in front of your eyes ... or did it grow already into the head? This must be really painful :p.

Just wondering about all the useless fair skinned people of European descent in the Labour cabinet?

Are they only there to make up the Pakeha quota?

See - this is what I mean with you being a racist ... and as it appears a pretty thick as well.

Some people are capable and others are inept, but this has nothing to do with the colour of their skin or with their descent.

You are a racist and I recon you are fair skinned. Does not mean that all fair skinned people are racist, there are as well some decent fair skinned people around.

Must feel good for you that you are not just the Pakeha quota for racists, doesn't it? It is you who is behaving that despicable, not some group of people you may or may not belong to. It is just you, balance.

Thank you for your racism ...

You write garbage on a grand scale.

[Balance]

I make no apologies for having the balls to call people out when they deserve it. You are free to follow his suit and put me on ignore.

You have balls? :eek2:

[justakiwi]

So predictable and so pathetic. I pity you.


You have balls? :eek2:

[Balance]

So predictable and so pathetic. I pity you.

I pity me as the image which flashed across my mind is going to give me nightmares tonight! :scared:

[fungus pudding]

I'm glad its news to you cause that means you can go and do some research on the topic, In SA and many other countries people are referred to as either White, Coloured or Black. It always makes me laugh when I see black power members with their patches cause they are not black but coloured.

Maybe they are, but that doesn't make brown wrong or offensive.

[Getty]

What a perverse perspective.

Jessica Mutch on TV1 suggests that Chris Luxon will have to defend Air NZ decisions to close some unprofitable routes, when visiting the regions.

Did she ask Jacinda why she gave customer A 2 more chips per scoop than customer B?

A corporate achiever gets taken to task, vs someone who only knows how to spend other peoples money.

Too much, Ms Mutch!

[fungus pudding]

What a perverse perspective.

Jessica Mutch on TV1 suggests that Chris Luxon will have to defend Air NZ decisions to close some unprofitable routes, when visiting the regions.

Did she ask Jacinda why she gave customer A 2 more chips per scoop than customer B?

A corporate achiever gets taken to task, vs someone who only knows how to spend other peoples money.

Too much, Ms Mutch!

Her comments were way out of line. Appalling.

[Panda-NZ-]

What a perverse perspective.

Jessica Mutch on TV1 suggests that Chris Luxon will have to defend Air NZ decisions to close some unprofitable routes, when visiting the regions.

Did she ask Jacinda why she gave customer A 2 more chips per scoop than customer B?

A corporate achiever gets taken to task, vs someone who only knows how to spend other peoples money.

Too much, Ms Mutch!

Luxon has recieved other peoples money for most of his life though. CEO for a govt airline then an MP.

[Getty]

Luxon has recieved other peoples money for most of his life though. CEO for a govt airline then straight to an MP.

I thought a good Panda would know the difference between chalk & cheese!

Do you have have an issue with digestion?

[Panda-NZ-]

Lots of corporate loans and protectionism for air NZ (which is fair enough) but I wonder how Luxo would have fared with a properly competitive airline.

Unilever has underperformed the Dow Jones Index

[Balance]

Lots of corporate loans and protectionism for air NZ (which is fair enough)

But I wonder how Luxo would have fared with a properly competitive airline.

What about whanau Ora?

You write a lot of garbage - don’t you have a life?

[fungus pudding]

Luxon has recieved other peoples money for most of his life though. CEO for a govt airline then an MP.

Which airline was that?

[iceman]

Luxon has recieved other peoples money for most of his life though. CEO for a govt airline then an MP.

Why don’t you at least read his bio before you write such utter rubbish and untruths ?
Labour obviously panicking after their scaremongering about his faith, regurgitated by some on here, turned out to be a non issue. Now attacking him for owning several properties. How pathetic

[Blue Skies]

Why don’t you at least read his bio before you write such utter rubbish and untruths ?
Labour obviously panicking after their scaremongering about his faith, regurgitated by some on here, turned out to be a non issue. Now attacking him for owning several properties. How pathetic



There's been so much nonsense written on their thread recently.

No one in Labour has attacked Luxon.

The media is speculating as we all are, how relatable Luxon will be to the NZ public.
You can see Luxon already using the media to try to make himself more relatable with his stories of being a Bunnings warehouse home handyman (does anyone believe that!) & appearances on Radio Hauraki, The Project etc, straight out of John Key's playbook.

Newshub, RNZ, TVNZ & various media in NZME have all printed or broadcast items around Luxons evangelical faith which is interesting because of it's fundamentalist aspect, in the same way if a fundamentalist Muslim became leader, many would want to know more. It's interesting because it's extreme.
Also people were interested because of the pastor's extraordinary support of Trump & conspiracy theories about George Soros & Greta Thunberg.
Finally because of Luxons beliefs around euthanasia, abortion, same sex marriage etc which are inextricably linked to his faith.
These may be a non-issue to you, but for a very large number of voters they are very important issues. e.g. to suggest that safety zones around abortion clinics are a non-issue for women is ignorant paternalist tripe of the worst kind. (note he reversed his previous view on that yesterday obviously because it is an issue to voters)

Newshub, NZME & TVNZ have also produced items on his which direction he would personally like to see house market price affordability move, & any journalist is going to include the fact he owns 7 houses, readers can judge for themselves (& Nicola Willis owns or has in Trusts about 4 houses) how they find that relatable to their own situation.

So if anyone's attacking him, its the media.
But in reality, it's just the normal scrutiny any new leader gets.

He's done well so far, very good with the media.

[Getty]

There's been so much nonsense written on their thread recently.

No one in Labour has attacked Luxon.

The media is speculating as we all are, how relatable Luxon will be to the NZ public.
You can see Luxon already using the media to try to make himself more relatable with his stories of being a Bunnings warehouse home handyman (does anyone believe that!) & appearances on Radio Hauraki, The Project etc, straight out of John Key's playbook.

Newshub, RNZ, TVNZ & various media in NZME have all printed or broadcast items around Luxons evangelical faith which is interesting because of it's fundamentalist aspect, in the same way if a fundamentalist Muslim became leader, many would want to know more. It's interesting because it's extreme.
Also people were interested because of the pastor's extraordinary support of Trump & conspiracy theories about George Soros & Greta Thunberg.
Finally because of Luxons beliefs around euthanasia, abortion, same sex marriage etc which are inextricably linked to his faith.
These may be a non-issue to you, but for a very large number of voters they are very important issues. e.g. to suggest that safety zones around abortion clinics are a non-issue for women is ignorant paternalist tripe of the worst kind. (note he reversed his previous view on that yesterday obviously because it is an issue to voters)

Newshub, NZME & TVNZ have also produced items on his which direction he would personally like to see house market price affordability move, & any journalist is going to include the fact he owns 7 houses, readers can judge for themselves (& Nicola Willis owns or has in Trusts about 4 houses) how they find that relatable to their own situation.

So if anyone's attacking him, its the media.
But in reality, it's just the normal scrutiny any new leader gets.

He's done well so far, very good with the media.

Thanks for presenting in a fair manner, it gives me an intro for some observations I had.

With regard to euthanasia, abortion and same sex marriage, I don't see the relevance of his personal views on those subjects, unless he has announced his intention to make it Nationals policy to overturn the existing legislation.

Parliament has dealt with those issues, and moved on.

Did they ask him if we should have introduced decimal currency?

With regard to owning any number of houses, by any member of any party, why should that be painted as a negative?

They will be providing shelter for someone who cant afford their own, pretty admirable eh?,

Would the journalists prefer he had all his money in offshore trusts, benefitting no one in NZ?

Would they rather have had a less accomplished person like Alamein Kopu as leader or PM?

Its a bit like writing up a story amid the euphoria about the horse that has just won the Melbourne Cup, and saying its left a mess in its horse box!

[BlackPeter]

You write garbage on a grand scale.

You just keep projecting ... but hey - it is you you know best :p;

[Panda-NZ-]

The media is speculating as we all are, how relatable Luxon will be to the NZ public.
You can see Luxon already using the media to try to make himself more relatable with his stories of being a Bunnings warehouse home handyman (does anyone believe that!) & appearances on Radio Hauraki, The Project etc, straight out of John Key's playbook.


Does he believe carbon dating is a valid scientific field of research?

[fungus pudding]

Does he believe carbon dating is a valid scientific field of research?

I doubt if anyone thinks carbon-dating is any sort of research.

[Panda-NZ-]

*scientific method, then.

[fungus pudding]

*scientific method, then.

May I remind you, as far as I am aware there are no mindreaders on this site. If you insist on posting here, why not follow convention and attribute your ramblings to whatever it relates. That is why the 'reply with quote' function exists.

[Balance]

May I remind you, as far as I am aware there are no mindreaders on this site. If you insist on posting here, why not follow convention and attribute your ramblings to whatever it relates. That is why the 'reply with quote' function exists.

Suffer fools and you become the fool.

[Panda-NZ-]

May I remind you, as far as I am aware there are no mindreaders on this site. If you insist on posting here, why not follow convention and attribute your ramblings to whatever it relates. That is why the 'reply with quote' function exists.

A simple correction to a previous post shouldn't need a quote.

What should I be quoting and why ?

[fungus pudding]

A simple correction to a previous post shouldn't need a quote.

What should I be quoting and why ?

Because for someone trying to catch up on the topics on the thread, it makes life a lot easier; particularly if referring back to something later - say the next day. And if someone has posted in between - it's hopeless. As to what you should be quoting - you can delete the irrelevant parts so we know what you are on about. It's quicker of course to include the whole post if it's brief and not waffly, and obvious what part of the preceding post is being addressed. .

[fungus pudding]

He's no slug that Reti fella ....

https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/12/02/the-potentially-dangerous-shane-reti/

[Panda-NZ-]

Australia sure has lots of Luxon lookalikes on the conservative side lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9os3HKEgR4

[Getty]

Australia sure has lots of Luxon lookalikes on the conservative side (from 1:00 onwards):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9os3HKEgR4

You are quite taken with those boys with the heads like rugby balls Panda.

Is that why you immigrated here?

You knew that to play rugby, they need leather balls.

[Balance]

Simon Bridges into Finance Role - a good move for him & National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300468594/christopher-luxon-gives-leadership-rival-simon-bridges-finance-and-infrastructure-portfolios

[Panda-NZ-]

double post (quote issues).

[Panda-NZ-]

Simon Bridges into Finance Role - a good move for him & National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300468594/christopher-luxon-gives-leadership-rival-simon-bridges-finance-and-infrastructure-portfolios

Someone with leadership ambitions in the finance role. Will be interesting to see how that works out longer term (howard, keating, bill)

[Panda-NZ-]

Almost forgot scott morrsion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20MJKJE5fYs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkd2aPF6cAI

[BlackPeter]

Simon Bridges into Finance Role - a good move for him & National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300468594/christopher-luxon-gives-leadership-rival-simon-bridges-finance-and-infrastructure-portfolios

Yes and no. It is probably a good move to bring him that high onto the list and to make him as well an important part of the leadership team. He deserves that after being screwed by the cancer called Judith.

No idea, though whether he has any experience in finance - I don't think so.

Isn't that what we always complain about if it is a Labour minister - no relevant training and no relevant life experience?

But hey, this is National = so must be all good :):

[Bill Smith]

Australia sure has lots of Luxon lookalikes on the conservative side lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9os3HKEgR4

So it's OK to suggest there are hundreds of ardern lookalikes at Karaka and Ellerslie?

[Getty]

So it's OK to suggest there are hundreds of ardern lookalikes at Karaka and Ellerslie?

Stop horsing around ,lol.

I wouldn't want to be in your Jockeys if she gets her whips onto you.

[Blue Skies]

So it's OK to suggest there are hundreds of ardern lookalikes at Karaka and Ellerslie?


Posts like that make you sound like a women-hating, mysogynist, creep.
Striking at a womens appearance, esp in such an intentionally degrading way, has no equivalence to humorously comparing a male politician's looks with another.

If you can't understand that, go & ask your mother.
Grow up, no place for gutter rubbish like that on here.

[Bill Smith]

[QUOTE=Blue Skies;929502]Posts like that make you sound like a women-hating, mysogynist, creep.
Striking at a womens appearance, esp in such an intentionally degrading way, has no equivalence to humorously comparing a male politician's looks with another.

And you and panda are happy to dis Luxon for his appearance. Two unbalanced labour shills.

[Balance]

Yes and no. It is probably a good move to bring him that high onto the list and to make him as well an important part of the leadership team. He deserves that after being screwed by the cancer called Judith.

No idea, though whether he has any experience in finance - I don't think so.

Isn't that what we always complain about if it is a Labour minister - no relevant training and no relevant life experience?

But hey, this is National = so must be all good :):

Simon has held several cabinet minister posts including economic development.

Compare & contrast with Grant Robertson who has zero cabinet experience and whose degree is in politics. Telling, isn’t it why he sucks at the job?

[Getty]

Simon has held several cabinet minister posts including economic development.

Compare & contrast with Grant Robertson who has zero cabinet experience and whose degree is in politics. Telling, isn’t it why he sucks at the job?

As Grant has a bit of carry on with a bus driver, its a wonder he has not been shunted into Minister of Transport.

[Joshuatree]

We are so lucky to be living here through these times.I shudder at the thought of having had National governing.How many times would our hospitals have been over run by now, how many waves of covid would we have had now, how many deaths, long covid etc etc. We are the luckiest country i can think of .

[Panda-NZ-]

Simon has held several cabinet minister posts including economic development.

Compare & contrast with Grant Robertson who has zero cabinet experience and whose degree is in politics. Telling, isn’t it why he sucks at the job?

Full employment is hard to achieve but he has managed to do it.

If he puts even more into NZ super then he will have more fiscal credentials than all the lawyers the Nats conjure up.

[Blue Skies]

[QUOTE=Blue Skies;929502]Posts like that make you sound like a women-hating, mysogynist, creep.
Striking at a womens appearance, esp in such an intentionally degrading way, has no equivalence to humorously comparing a male politician's looks with another.

And you and panda are happy to dis Luxon for his appearance. Two unbalanced labour shills.



Don't try and wiggle your way out of it, I've never commented on Luxon's appearance.

Besides, everyone knows striking at a women's appearance in the way you did, is not the same as comparing one bald politician's looks with another.
Any decent person would find your degrading comment comparing a women with an animal as sickening.
You remind me of the depraved Australian politicians barking when a female MP stands up to speak.

Jacinda Adern is obviously incredibly tough & resilient, but she's not made of steel.
Some forget she is just human like the rest of us.
If many people just happened on this thread, they would be shocked at the level of misogyny directed at her by a couple of posters.

Just quit the nasty ugly juvenile stuff, we'd be much more interested in your arguments.

[Balance]

Full employment is hard to achieve but he has managed to do it.

If he puts even more into NZ super then he will have more fiscal credentials than all the lawyers the Nats conjure up.


87,000 unemployed as of today.

Borrowing $1 billion a week.

Generating 7% GDP growth by borrowing 26% of GDP in debt.

What a great FM he is indeed!

[Panda-NZ-]

NZ credit rating upgrade.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/436920/s-and-p-global-ratings-raises-new-zealand-s-credit-rating-to-aa

[justakiwi]

Can't give you a rep vote for the usual reason, but I second this. The misogyny here is the worst I've ever seen on any online forum anywhere. If it is acceptable for you guys (not you Blue Skies) to behave this way towards women, I guess you'd be fine with it if someone did the same to your wives/girlfriends, daughters and mothers?





Don't try and wiggle your way out of it, I've never commented on Luxon's appearance.

Besides, everyone knows striking at a women's appearance in the way you did, is not the same as comparing one bald politician's looks with another.
Any decent person would find your degrading comment comparing a women with an animal as sickening.
You remind me of the depraved Australian politicians barking when a female MP stands up to speak.

Jacinda Adern is obviously incredibly tough & resilient, but she's not made of steel.
Some forget she is just human like the rest of us.
If many people just happened on this thread, they would be shocked at the level of misogyny directed at her by a couple of posters.

Just quit the nasty ugly juvenile stuff, we'd be much more interested in your arguments.

[Balance]

Can't give you a rep vote for the usual reason, but I second this. The misogyny here is the worst I've ever seen on any online forum anywhere. If it is acceptable for you guys (not you Blue Skies) to behave this way towards women, I guess you'd be fine with it if someone did the same to your wives/girlfriends, daughters and mothers?

Cabin fever time again. :eek2:

[Balance]

NZ credit rating upgrade.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/436920/s-and-p-global-ratings-raises-new-zealand-s-credit-rating-to-aa

Same rating agency which gave the defunct credit sails AA+.

[BlackPeter]

Same rating agency which gave credit sails AAA!

To be fair ... while Labour did drastically increase our debt levels, NZ has still ways lower debt levels than most other countries.

Here are the 12 most indebted countries (debt / GDP) including Japan, US and Singapore (2019 numbers, it is - thanks to Covid - much worse now ...):

13278

NZ used to be in 2019 below 30% and is currently sitting at 43% ... If we would not get an AA+ rating, who would?

[justakiwi]

You really need to expand your vocabulary Balance. Your toddler-like repetition is mind-numbingly boring.


Cabin fever time again. :eek2:

[Balance]

To be fair ... while Labour did drastically increase our debt levels, NZ has still ways lower debt levels than most other countries.

Here are the 12 most indebted countries (debt / GDP) including Japan, US and Singapore (2019 numbers, it is - thanks to Covid - much worse now ...):

NZ used to be in 2019 below 30% and is currently sitting at 43% ... If we would not get an AA+ rating, who would?

Singapore has a gold edged AAA rating. That should tell you that it is not purely based upon Debt to GDP.

[Panda-NZ-]

Same rating agency which gave the defunct credit sails AA+.

Maybe they were impressed with her appearance in vogue magazine?

More nonsense from an im-balanced individual.

[Getty]

Maybe they were impressed with her appearance in vogue magazine?


Some Pandas are very naughty.

They believe in world domination.

Some are plants from the CCP.

Do you know anyone like that?

[Balance]

Maybe they were impressed with her appearance in vogue magazine?

More nonsense from an im-balanced individual.

What about Whanau Ora? Was that National or labour?

You do not know shxt from cheese which is why you keep posting crxp.

Typical Labour supporter - full of nothing but spin & zero substance.

[Getty]

Am I seeing Right, or is everything Left over?



Headline in the Herald; NP leader CL says he's not going to apologise for his success.

...Luxon also addressed those who questioned his suitability for a role on govt, due to his wealth.

Is the mood of the nation that dark after 4 years under Little Red Robbing Hood?

Can ya believe it?

Quick National, dump Luxon, and bring in a disabled LGBT darkie.

Its the only way to get any traction with the media, after Taxcinda's $70M injection of taxpayers money!

[Panda-NZ-]

Mitt Romney had government experience and turned around the winter olympics .

Luxon seems to believe hes entitled to be PM just because he's rich.

[Getty]

Mitt Romney had government experience and turned around the winter olympics .

Luxon seems to believe hes entitled to be PM just because he's rich.

I knew a Romney, but It never pulled the wool over my eyes!

Anyway, I may donate all my money to charity, get a sex change, and stand for PM myself.

[BlackPeter]

I knew a Romney, but It never pulled the wool over my eyes!

Anyway, I may donate all my money to charity, get a sex change, and stand for PM myself.

I am confused - are you saying this is what Luxon did?

[Getty]

I am confused - are you saying this is what Luxon did?

Its what he needs to do, to stop anal questions from some media!

[Sgt Pepper]

Someones net worth does not necessarily indicate how their perception of he world is or that they always gravitate to the right of the political spectrum. A good example of the was the outstanding President of the NZ Labour Party in the 1990s Michael Hirschfeld who also owned Mico-Wakefield, which he sold for $60 million in 1995

[iceman]

Its what he needs to do, to stop anal questions from some media!

Just desperate stuff from Labour's keyboard warriors and spin doctors, that have paid their way (with our money) to hollow moutpieces such as Tova and Jenna, not to mention all the garbage on Stuff and that Spinoff crap that is so favoured by the Jacindamaniacs

[moka]

Am I seeing Right, or is everything Left over?



Headline in the Herald; NP leader CL says he's not going to apologise for his success.

...Luxon also addressed those who questioned his suitability for a role on govt, due to his wealth.

His wealth is increasing due to soaring house prices. He is effectively earning about $90,000 a week in capital gains on his seven properties, which give him the biggest property portfolio of any sitting MP.

Victoria University of Wellington Institute for Governance and Policy Studies senior associate Max Rashbrooke said the disproportionate rates of homeownership among MPs presented an obstacle to overcoming the housing crisis, and inequality generally.

“Neither party, nor party leader, are immune from the criticism that they benefit as much as all homeowners from the current [housing] situation, at the expense of renters,” said economic commentator Bernard Hickey.
Hickey noted that Luxon had theoretically earned even more this year from housing than the $4.2m he earned in his last year as chief executive of Air New Zealand.

Luxon said his property ownership was his own “personal affairs” and was not contributing to the housing crisis. But it’s hard to separate the property portfolios of Luxon and Willis from their position on housing.
As the national average house price surpasses $1m, political leaders have refused to back a drop in house prices. Luxon and Willis are no different.

As someone who has both personal and political skin in the game, Luxon would not back a drop in house prices. Like other political leaders, he said they needed to stabilise.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127154254/christopher-luxons-property-gains-soar-as-national-promises-to-tackle-housing-crisis

[Getty]

His wealth is increasing due to soaring house prices. He is effectively earning about $90,000 a week in capital gains on his seven properties, which give him the biggest property portfolio of any sitting MP.

Victoria University of Wellington Institute for Governance and Policy Studies senior associate Max Rashbrooke said the disproportionate rates of homeownership among MPs presented an obstacle to overcoming the housing crisis, and inequality generally.

“Neither party, nor party leader, are immune from the criticism that they benefit as much as all homeowners from the current [housing] situation, at the expense of renters,” said economic commentator Bernard Hickey.
Hickey noted that Luxon had theoretically earned even more this year from housing than the $4.2m he earned in his last year as chief executive of Air New Zealand.

Luxon said his property ownership was his own “personal affairs” and was not contributing to the housing crisis. But it’s hard to separate the property portfolios of Luxon and Willis from their position on housing.
As the national average house price surpasses $1m, political leaders have refused to back a drop in house prices. Luxon and Willis are no different.

As someone who has both personal and political skin in the game, Luxon would not back a drop in house prices. Like other political leaders, he said they needed to stabilise.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127154254/christopher-luxons-property-gains-soar-as-national-promises-to-tackle-housing-crisis

I hear the message loud & clear.

Only elect under achievers into Parliament!

Only they know what's best for the country!

Now, that explains the composition of Labour and Greens doesn't it.?

Third world bailout for the Aotearoa banana republic coming up from the UN.

I now understand Jacinda's strategy after all.

We can do this.

Too bad about any patriotism, or self respect on the international stage.

[westerly]

I hear the message loud & clear.

Only elect under achievers into Parliament!

Only they know what's best for the country!

Now, that explains the composition of Labour and Greens doesn't it.?

Third world bailout for the Aotearoa banana republic coming up from the UN.

I now understand Jacinda's strategy after all.

We can do this.

Too bad about any patriotism, or self respect on the international stage.

Well done,you are leading Balance 5 to 1 on posts for the day. All mildly offensive
ramblings of a right winger with nothing of interest to add to the conversation.

westerly

[Getty]

Well done,you are leading Balance 5 to 1 on posts for the day. All mildly offensive
ramblings of a right winger with nothing of interest to add to the conversation.

westerly

I beg your forgiveness comrade westerly, for when the reunification camps start.

[Balance]

Just desperate stuff from Labour's keyboard warriors and spin doctors, that have paid their way (with our money) to hollow moutpieces such as Tova and Jenna, not to mention all the garbage on Stuff and that Spinoff crap that is so favoured by the Jacindamaniacs

An example of NZ’s leftist media in action - driving a young tryer to suicide. The tall poppy syndrome is alive & well in Cindy’s kind world of feeding the leftist media.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10257201/NZ-entrepreneur-Jake-Millar-sent-heartbreaking-email-suicide-Kenya.html

They prefer the Clueless Cindy’s spin and generous $70m media handout, than give the tryers encouragement & an opportunity to be successful.

[Panda-NZ-]

I hear the message loud & clear.

Only elect under achievers into Parliament!


Average NZers should be able to aspire to parliament too, if they have good ideas and can find support for them.

[Balance]

Average NZers should be able to aspire to parliament too, if they have good ideas and can find support for them.

Don’t worry about that - the current Labour caucus is living proof that plenty of below average NZers and underachievers get into Parliament. In fact, the caucus is full of them!

[Panda-NZ-]

Russia is not anything to envy. There needs to be checks and balances otherwise we have "entitled" people who think than can govern simply due to their wealth - with no relevant experience.

[Balance]

Russia is not anything to envy. There needs to be checks and balances otherwise we have "entitled" people who think than can govern simply due to their wealth - with no relevant experience.

Compared to those with zero experience like Clueless Cindy & her team of incompetents who have never created any businesses or work in a business environment?

What about Whanau Ora btw - you have been busy posting garbage out there so you can start rectifying that by clarifying Whanau Ora. Who initiated and created Whanau Ora?

And what is there to envy about Russia?

[Panda-NZ-]

Compared to those with zero experience like Clueless Cindy & her team of incompetents who have never created any businesses or work in a business environment?

Jacinda has experience as an MP, advisor to Tony blair and PM.

[Balance]

Jacinda has experience as an MP, advisor to Tony blair and PM.

Zero real world experience in other words.

What about Whanau Ora btw - you have been busy posting garbage out there so you can start rectifying that by clarifying Whanau Ora. Who initiated and created Whanau Ora?

[Panda-NZ-]

Zero real world experience in other words.

What about Whanau Ora btw - you have been busy posting garbage out there so you can start rectifying that by clarifying Whanau Ora. Who initiated and created Whanau Ora?

Everyone has a real world experience.

Mitt Romney was governer of massachusetts before running against Obama.

We have someone being parachuted as an "MP for Botany", which is supposed to be a diverse electorate, then running to be PM.

[moka]

Compared to those with zero experience like Clueless Cindy & her team of incompetents who have never created any businesses or work in a business environment?

If you are a politician it pays to have relevant experience in politics, which Jacinda has. A vocal group think that politicians should pander to business, and this promoted under the guise of having business experience.

I see Nicola Willis has had a career in politics since 2003 when she first worked for Bill English. She was a senior adviser to Sir John Key when he was Prime Minister and he described her as “outstanding” with a “tremendous intellect”, and as someone who is hardworking and dedicated.

Willis brings her experience under Key and time at Fonterra to her promotion. She has a working understanding of New Zealand’s trade dependence on China, and experience resolving potential conflict through her roles at the dairy giant.
Newshub political editor Tova O’Brien asked her why she was deputy and not leader given she had more political experience.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127175283/career-success-and-profound-loss-in-rollercoaster-week-for-new-national-deputy-leader-nicola-willis

[Getty]

[QUOTE=moka;929866] A vocal group think that politicians should pander to business, and this promoted under the guise of having business experience.



I don't think like that, but if I have a choice between those that know how to turn $1000 into $1500, and a pack of nongs who only know how to turn $1000 into $500, then I know who to choose.

[Panda-NZ-]

A vocal group think that politicians should pander to business, and this promoted under the guise of having business experience.



I don't think like that, but if I have a choice between those that know how to turn $1000 into $1500, and a pack of nongs who only know how to turn $1000 into $500, then I know who to choose.

NZ always tends to stagnate under National though. That's their long history back to even muldoon.

[fizzletop]

Well Panda, NZ certainly hasn't stagnated under the last four years of Labour stewardship. The massive damage they have done is generational. In fact, I don't believe NZ will ever fully recover. Kudos to Cindy and her motley crew....worst Government ever.

[Panda-NZ-]

What did national do with the free asset sale money?

They didn't pay down debt that much so it must have been wasted then.

[BDL]

What did national do with the free asset sale money?

They didn't pay down debt that much so it must have been wasted then.

Gee Panda, you sound like you are clutching at straws there, trying to defend Jacinda.

[Panda-NZ-]

I'm interested in fiscal responsiblity for the taxpayers.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon takes a mercedes to cross to the other side of the street:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/christopher-luxon-s-opening-gambit-as-would-be-prime-minister-hiring-a-black-mercedes-to-drop-him-across-the-road.html

[BDL]

I'm interested in fiscal responsiblity for the taxpayers.

Well, you need to go check Jacinda on that one. Throwing money out left, right and centre.

And did I tell you, she likes to stand with China/CCP on human rights abusers and sexual assault? (they don't like people talking about those things):t_down:

[BDL]

Panda, ask Jacinda what she thinks about woman's tennis in China.

Let me know what she thinks about it, because I have seen NOTHING in the media about that in NZ. (what she thinks, I mean)

I hear none of them want to talk about that, just want to sell more milk powder......

[BDL]

But she tells all us "team of 5 million" to "be kind"

What a bl*ody joke she is.

[Panda-NZ-]

I never said I liked the dictatorial regime of china. I was one of those who called out Dr Jian Yang and Gladys Liu.

take your concerns elsewhere.

[BDL]

You are quick to stick up for Jacinda, Jacinda's big cheerleader on here, but she won't stand up for abuses in China.

Because of trade, you know, money..... that's more important when you are a communist.

[Panda-NZ-]

She has officially condemned human rights abuses.

[BDL]

She has officially condemned human rights abuses.

What about woman's tennis, what does she think about that?

20 other countries, including our 5 eyes members, are looking for boycott and have not signed Olympic letter.

Jacinda has already signed and decided it's not a big deal (sexual assault).

Be kind........

[Panda-NZ-]

What about woman's tennis, what does she think about that?

20 other countries, including our 5 eyes members, are looking for boycott and have not signed Olympic letter.

Jacinda has already signed and decided it's not a big deal (sexual assault).

Be kind........

Sounds like tokenism to me.

You want her to cancel a tennis match?

[BDL]

Sounds like NOT being kind to me.


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-refuses-to-sign-truce-for-beijing-olympics-as-it-weighs-up-diplomatic-boycott-20211203-p59eh2.html


None of the “Quad” members – United States, India, Australia and Japan – sponsored the resolution, and New Zealand was the only country in the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing network, comprising Australia, NZ, Canada, the United Kingdom and the US, to sign the truce.

[Panda-NZ-]

Maybe she simply never got around to considering it much.

I don't like many sports, maybe its a bigger deal for you though? Our PM is currently onto the genuine issues, like corona.

Which Scott Morrson has left to the states so has free time for some virtue signals.

[BDL]

Maybe she simply never got around to considering it much.

I don't like many sports, maybe its a bigger deal for you though? Our PM is currently onto the genuine issues, like corona.

Which Scott Morrson has left to the states so has free time for some virtue signals.

She signed it, so I would hope she considered it!! Get your facts right Panda. Its about the Olympics , silly. Get with it!

Sexual assault and human rights are not genuine issues to Jacinda you think?

Be kind, be kind! yea right just another slogan of BS.

[Getty]

Luxon takes a mercedes to cross to the other side of the street:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/christopher-luxon-s-opening-gambit-as-would-be-prime-minister-hiring-a-black-mercedes-to-drop-him-across-the-road.html

I was waiting for someone to try and make political capital out of that.

But imagine if he walked, and got waylaid by riffraff and media along the way, and was late & frazzled arriving at what was his most important political date so far.
The ghouls would have been happy.
You may well find he drove, under advice from the Diplomatic Protection Squad.
Either way, shows he is capable of thinking ahead, not just a reactionary like those in the current govt.

Panda's need to find something significant to get their claws into.

[Panda-NZ-]

I was waiting for someone to try and make political capital out of that.

But imagine if he walked, and got waylaid by riffraff and media along the way, and was late & frazzled arriving at what was his most important political date so far.
The ghouls would have been happy.


Riff raff, thats an interesting term for the NZ voters.

[Getty]

Riff raff, thats an interesting term for the NZ voters.

If you have spent any time around Parliament, and its grounds, you would know what I meant.

[BDL]

I was waiting for someone to try and make political capital out of that.

But imagine if he walked, and got waylaid by riffraff and media along the way, and was late & frazzled arriving at what was his most important political date so far.
The ghouls would have been happy.
You may well find he drove, under advice from the Diplomatic Protection Squad.
Either way, shows he is capable of thinking ahead, not just a reactionary like those in the current govt.

Panda's need to find something significant to get their claws into.

Panda can't find anything to get his claws into.

[Panda-NZ-]

Panda can't find anything to get his claws into.

Plenty of material (I'm sure simon has a cache on Lux).

Once he builds a profile as finance spokesperson then he can get another turn as #1

[Getty]

Plenty of material (I'm sure simon has a cache on Lux).

Once he builds a profile as finance spokesperson then he can get another turn as #1

Well there you go then.

Isn't it great to have choice and back up, rather than just a 1 person band.

[BDL]

Panda's shift must be nearly over anyway.
Whos the next Jacinda cheerleader on to take your place Panda?
Pay well?

[Panda-NZ-]

Whos the next Jacinda cheerleader on to take your place Panda?


Balance. The posts speak for themselves in driving people towards jacinda :P

[Getty]

Remember 1 thing Panda.

Be careful, it's a jungle out there!

[Panda-NZ-]

Jungles seem to have lots of leaks.

Though not so much anymore due to climate change.

[Getty]

Jungles seem to have lots of leaks.

Though not so much anymore due to climate change.

Are you suggesting we need a more totalitarian regime to sort the leaks out?

Jacinda may have a job for you...

[Panda-NZ-]

They have one for three years (50.1%).

Not even the greens are necessary and they're rather into nature.

[Getty]

Anyway, nice to chat, I'm off to watch Jacinda on the news, and have some bamboo leaves.

[Panda-NZ-]

We need all the help we can get due to climate issues so better to spare those leaves. :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Takes a Mercedes to cross the street but opposes a minimum wage increase (even though unemployment is at a record low).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/christopher-luxon-is-out-of-step-with-most-new-zealanders-can-he-really-challenge-ardern

It's back to a modest 25c / hr under National then.

[BDL]

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-refuses-to-sign-truce-for-beijing-olympics-as-it-weighs-up-diplomatic-boycott-20211203-p59eh2.html

Jacinda has already signed this truce because she loves China CCP - she was probably first in line.

She is OK about Hong Kong takeover by China CCP?
She has nothing to say about woman's tennis sexual assault in China?
Human rights? Don't want to up set China.

Be kind, she says.


"Australia has joined 19 other countries in opting not to sign a truce with China ahead of next year’s Winter Olympics amid growing pressure for a diplomatic boycott of the event.

The refusal to sign the Olympic Truce – a tradition that dates back to ancient Greece to ensure conflicts don’t disrupt the competition – was designed to send a message to Beijing over its human rights abuses in Xinjiang and Hong Kong and the treatment of Chinese tennis player Peng Shuai."

[Getty]

Mr Tame was Mr Feral on Q & A this morn.

With repeated questioning, he seems to equate Mr Luxon's ownership 0f 7 homes, as a reason why some are living in cars.

Does he think Luxo lives in all 7 himself?

Is he chronically jealous?

Luxo needs to be more adroit in answering such questions.

[Panda-NZ-]

He's a politician now which he lacks experience with.

I suppose you expect fawning over his business experience running a monopoly airline.

[Getty]

He's a politician now which he lacks experience with.

I suppose you expect fawning over his business experience running a monopoly airline.

Panda we all know your type believe Luxo should be stripped of his assets, and everything 'Nationalised'.

Then once the state tenants are in, never evict no matter how much harm or damage they do to the property, or to the neighbours and their quality of life.

Remuera for some Kangaroo housing!

[Panda-NZ-]

Panda we all know your type believe Luxo should be stripped of his assets, and everything 'Nationalised'.


Luxon only wants to build more homes so he can add them to his portfolio.

I want policies/ideas which have better results.

[Panda-NZ-]

Absolutely, Cindy will not take this hit in popularity laying down so Panda should be worried. Someone else usually cops it when things do not go her way. Panda's days on the 9th floor could be numbered.

Labour wins on economic issues so when the focus shifts back from corona they have a solid chance.

"I'm sorry for being a man" wasn't overly good for them in 2014.

[Baa_Baa]

Mr Tame was Mr Feral on Q & A this morn.

With repeated questioning, he seems to equate Mr Luxon's ownership 0f 7 homes, as a reason why some are living in cars.

Does he think Luxo lives in all 7 himself?

Is he chronically jealous?

Luxo needs to be more adroit in answering such questions.

After reading your comments I listened to the whole interview. Personally I didn't Jack was "feral" at all (I've seen him let the dogs out and this wasn't one of those times), in fact his questions were mostly insightful and progressed across a far wider range of topics than many of the soundbite interviews and clickbait articles in the media this week. And Mr Luxon I thought did an admirable job of answering those questions, though whether people will like his answers or not is another matter.

[Getty]

Labour wins on economic issues so when the focus shifts back from corona they have a solid chance.

"I'm sorry for being a man" wasn't good for them at all in 2014.

A bit of penis envy Panda?

[Baa_Baa]

Labour wins on economic issues so when the focus shifts back from corona they have a solid chance.

Evidence right there that you have no idea at all, just a shill with unfounded comments and soundbites. Labour have done huge damage to the economy. They (the PM) got in on their 2020 covid response and it will be their 2021/22 covid response (oppressive, controlling, damn civil liberties and personal freedoms) and particularly the economic aftermath, a disaster which is just unfolding now that will get Labour voted out in 2023.