M F Global - a tale of invester beware, very.

[tricha]

I rang my broker, probably because of what happened to MF Global, to find out what their guarentee is.

NONE :confused:

Scenaro is if the bank gets stressed, their sharetrading platform will be sacrifaced 1st, I guess.:confused:

I had all this cash sitting in an account, safely out of the share market, WELL the share market is probably
safer than where my money was sitting.

It is now on it way to pay off the mortgage, the safest way to be, debt free.

Those poor folk, in M F Global, that thought their money in their trading account, was safe.:mad ;:

MF Global execs mystified over cash | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/6132083/MF-Global-execs-mystified-over-cash)

That suks, 3 years after the global crisis and this is still happening. Shame on them and shame on the system that protects them.

Food for thought folks, how safe is your cash, remembering the govt guarantee is now gone.

[JBmurc]

Yeah many average investor will have lost out thanks to the head of MF taking a massive risk

Ann Barnhardt: Well, obviously, it was the MF global collapse and more specifically the fall out after the MF Global collapse and the reaction by the CFTC, the SEC and most especially by the Chicago Mercantile Exchange [the “Merc”]. The actions, specifically by the Merc after the MF Global collapse were unprecedented, unfathomable and completely and totally intolerable. The Merc itself basically did the equivalent of sticking a nine millimeter in their mouth and pulling the trigger by not stepping forward, backstopping the MF Global client accounts and at the very least, the Merc should have allowed the MF Global customers to liquidate their accounts and then transfer to other firms. What the Merc did was the worst possible thing—they froze those people out of their accounts and didn’t allow them to liquidate while the markets continued to trade.


http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/2011/12/02/ann-barnhardt/interview-transcript

[tricha]

Pretty shocking stuff JB :ohmy:

Have you had a look at your stockbroking firm and looked at its credit rating and security. I rang mine, as I am to lazy to read the fine print and asked a simple question:confused:.

Is it secured. The answer like MF Global "NO"

The broking firm was directly linked to a bank on their web page. It has gone.

. I would advise all of you fellow investors, to check the safety of any money sitting in cash in your trading account.


Reading this might help
Banks on alert for euro zone split http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks-on-alert-for-euro-zone-split-20111213-1ot4z.html

Eric JohnstonDecember 14, 2011


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks-on-alert-for-euro-zone-split-20111213-1ot4z.html#ixzz1gStvKn2x

[tricha]

I'm off the railroad track ;) Could it happen here, who knows, but I'm not waiting around to find out.


Ann Barnhardt: The Entire Futures/Options Market Has Been Destroyed by the MF Global Collapse

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/guest-expert/2011/12/01/ann-barnhardt/entire-futures-options-market-destroyed-by-mf-global-collapse

[Skol]

I got caught with $8000 in my trading account when Access Brokerage went down due to misappropriation of funds, it was a BNZ account and luckily BNZ fronted up.

I keep minimal amounts in my cash accounts these days.

[Lizard]

I got caught with $8000 in my trading account when Access Brokerage went down due to misappropriation of funds, it was a BNZ account and luckily BNZ fronted up.

I keep minimal amounts in my cash accounts these days.

Yes, that has stuck in my head and likewise. I even get paranoid about custodial holdings. And can't quite bring myself to stomach CHESS, despite it seeming that failing holders is probably up there with bank deposits being lost...i.e. NOT going to happen on the watch of any government that is going to be re-elected, EVER.

[percy]

In 1987 a share club I was in sold some Australian shares.We used Hamilton Hindin and Green,a local Christchurch broker,who used an Aussie broker to sell the shares.The Australian broker went broke and HHG didn't honour the deal.So we lost the money.I have never used HHG since.
I make sure all shares are registered in my name.Even did it when I used to buy UK and US shares. I use Craigs,and even have our Kiwi saver with them.I often have queit large amounts sitting in either NZ or Aussie cash management accounts.I have queit a bit on cash management at present.I have always found Craigs to be honest,prefer them to Westpac, in fact Westpac are hopeless if you deal in Aussie shares.
May I thank other posters for sharing their concerns.

[STRAT]

This doesnt apply to me but excellent heads up all the same. Thanks Tricha.

[JBmurc]

I got caught with $8000 in my trading account when Access Brokerage went down due to misappropriation of funds, it was a BNZ account and luckily BNZ fronted up.

I keep minimal amounts in my cash accounts these days.

yeah I was also with Access but luckly didn't have much cash in the call account ,now with E*trade still don't keep all that much on call

[Toulouse - Luzern]

This doesnt apply to me but excellent heads up all the same. Thanks Tricha.

This is potentially a very serious matter.

Like Strat I did not think that the MF Global bankruptcy affected me but now I am not so sure...

Investors may get scared and with the European issues lose confidence worldwide ... and there could be a flow on effect ...

Wikipedia has a lot of information on the MF Global bankruptcy.
The link is provided at face value for your consideration.

Caveat: As always, do your own research, form your own conclusions ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global

If this information is credible then the rehypothecation isssue in the wikipedia write up is very important.

It is not an easy subject but the risk assessment implications for investors are significant ...

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothecation#Rehypothecation

Many responsible individuals/organisations believe a very significant amount of money has been stolen from investors and the review and judicial system is responding now eg:

"Federal investigators are probing whether the shortfall is the result of improper commingling of customer and proprietary assets."

"CFTC Commissioner Jill Sommers, who heads up one of several probes of a massive shortfall in money that was supposed to be segregated for MF Global customers, said in a statement that "dozens of auditors, investigators and attorneys" are continuing to work on the case."

(SENATE HEARING) CHAIRWOMAN DEBBIE STABENOW ON FRUSTRATION OVER LACK OF ANSWERS:
"It's now been a month and a half since the firm collapsed and customer money is still nowhere to be found. This isn't the Dark Ages. MF Global didn't keep their books with feather quills and dusty ledgers. The rules about keeping customer money segregated are pretty straightforward. That it's been over a month, and teams of lawyers and forensic accountants still can't figure out what happened, raises very troubling questions."

Deborah Ann Greer "Debbie" Stabenow (born April 29, 1950) is the junior United States Senator from Michigan and a member of the Democratic Party. Before her election to the U.S. Senate, she was a member of the United States House of Representatives, representing Michigan's 8th congressional district from 1997 to 2001. She previously served as a member of the Ingham County Board of Commissioners, Michigan House of Representatives, and Michigan Senate.

Where did the UK brokers money go?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/mf-global-s-u-k-administrator-kpmg-says-it-knows-where-clients-money-is.html

Caveat: As always, be careful out there ...

[Toulouse - Luzern]

article in todays SMH - Sydney Morning Herald ...


http://www.smh.com.au/business/mf-global-fiasco-makes-case-for-better-client-protection-20111218-1p0ry.html

[STRAT]

article in todays SMH - Sydney Morning Herald ...


http://www.smh.com.au/business/mf-global-fiasco-makes-case-for-better-client-protection-20111218-1p0ry.htmlFor anyone unsure about what a derivative product is, heres a Pic or two and it aint the bird.

[tricha]

Good article Toulouse, thats why I moved all my money from direct brokings account last week, that is why I started this thead.
I rang and asked how secure my money was, after reading the MF Global scam.

The answer " it is not secured"

I'm not sure what the other broker company's have in place to secure your money?


To be mostly out of the sharemarket and having your money in a trading account, is akin to going from the frying pan, into the fire.




article in todays SMH - Sydney Morning Herald ...


http://www.smh.com.au/business/mf-global-fiasco-makes-case-for-better-client-protection-20111218-1p0ry.html

[Jay]

Is not Direct Broking owned by ANZ now

Don't think the ANZ is about to fall over, they would surely cover if DB went west!

[skid]

Maybe someone should start a thread on actual secured investments.They seem to be as rare as hens teeth.

[Skol]

There's some news on Yahoo Finance about punters who were to take delivery of gold and silver from MF Global but it's been siezed by the liquidators.

[tricha]

Is not Direct Broking owned by ANZ now

Don't think the ANZ is about to fall over, they would surely cover if DB went west!

The market is now a Ponzi scheme :scared:

It relies on growth\ money printing to keep it intact, if the music stops, do u want to be sitting in the chair :confused:

No one knows the end result, will they print their way out of it.:confused: All I know is I'm not going to be sitting in the chair.


U need to read this article I posted a few days ago Jay, to get an idea on how big this really is.


Banks on alert for euro zone split http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks...213-1ot4z.html (http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks-on-alert-for-euro-zone-split-20111213-1ot4z.html)

Eric Johnston

December 14, 2011


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks...#ixzz1gStvKn2x (http://www.smh.com.au/business/banks-on-alert-for-euro-zone-split-20111213-1ot4z.html#ixzz1gStvKn2x)

[Jay]

Well if the Australian or NZ Banks all fall over , I think I will have a bit more to worry about than a few dollars sitting a cash management account and/or in shares

[skid]

Tricha--Very interested to know what your strategy is for wealth protection.
I ,for one have shifted my emphasis from growing wealth to protecting wealth.its amazing to think that the unbelievable scenario of actually loseing money in the bank is potentially a possibility.

[tricha]

Tricha--Very interested to know what your strategy is for wealth protection.
I ,for one have shifted my emphasis from growing wealth to protecting wealth.its amazing to think that the unbelievable scenario of actually loseing money in the bank is potentially a possibility.

What are you doing Skid, this is what I am doing,

#1 Paying off debt, even though my debt is very managable. ( debt in any shape or form could be toxic) So I sold most of my shares and hated doing it, the gambler in me wanted to carry on, I love my shares. ( That meant moving cash from my toxic trading account )

#2 This customer told me, he took all his money out of a Tower superannuation account and bought a rental, wise move, if the banks crashed, his cash is reasonable safe, safe as a house that is, which could be a lot safer than money in a bank

#3 Buy physical gold or gold stocks. I own gold stocks, its my life insurance policy.

#4 Become self sufficient as possible.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Because if u really think about it, this is the biggest Pozzi scheme ever.
And on that note, hmm :confused:

21 December 2011 Last updated at 14:11 GMT
Article written by Stephanie Flanders Economics editor

More from Stephanie


Reason to be cheerful from the ECBComments (84)
It's "Merry Christmas from the ECB" today, but not, I fear, a happy and prosperous New Year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16289835

[drillfix]

Reason to be cheerful from the ECBComments (84) (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/#dna-comments)
It's "Merry Christmas from the ECB" today, but not, I fear, a happy and prosperous New Year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16289835


Hi tricha,

I also heard about that on our SBS news here in Aus as shown on the link below:

Link: > http://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/2179326157/Ricardos-Business:-NAB-on-ECB,-retail,-jobs-and-rates


What is not so good about it is that the banks seem to get 650 Million Euro at a low interest rate, but meanwhile, back at the ranch, many Euro Countries Bond rates are now exceedingly growing higher, which is starting to sound alarm bells once again.

Therefore, any money the banks have, most likely will not be lent except to make them appear to be safe or a safety net for being solvent in the short term or should any near term Resistance come about, BUT, what happens after that? I think the answer is obvious.

Which of course is where I agree with you and IMO down into the abyss we go~!

[skid]

Tricha-Im pretty much out of the share market exept a small holding of PPP.
Like you,Ive paid down debt except one mortgage or 100K on one of our 3 rentals in Auckland
I could and was going to pay it off,but am holding fire cause it would increase our earnings and our daughter wouldnt get her student allowance.That cash is in the bank[which sometimes makes me uneasy]As terms mature they will go on call.
Ive got some physical gold and silver.[Insurance]
And probably most important--Im perfectly capable of living on the smell of an oily wrag
Im well and truly into preservation mode ATM.
Its the $ in the bank that concerns me in this environment

I watched THE HURT LOCKER the other night.There is a scene where the soldger has just returned from fighting in Iraq[for his country] and is standing in a supermarket gazing at the isle containing about 2 million different types of breakfast cereals[thats what he was fighting for]
The irony is certainly not lost on me

[JBmurc]

JIM WILLIE report December 8 2011

Jim Willie: JP Morgan Crashed MF Global to Avert COMEX Failure, European Derivatives Implosion
MUST READ/LISTEN interview- Jim Willie IS BURNING!

We had a COMEX system failure in November. COMEX was ready to default on gold and silver in November. Rather than honor delivery demands in gold and silver- JP Morgan simply stole the money in the accounts that were going to stand for delivery. They had their pockets picked while they were standing in line at the delivery window. Notices of delivery were replaced at stolen accounts!
JP Morgan averted both a COMEX default and a European sovereign debt implosion, and notice that JP Morgan increased the amount of silver in their registered vaults by precisely the amount that was supposed to be delivered!
This is just another financial 9/11, and THERE WILL BE MORE.
If JP Morgan can steal 140,000 futures accounts, what's to stop 250,000 MUTUAL FUND ACCOUNTS FROM BEING STOLEN!?!
The Fed was staring at 20 Lehmans in Europe!! 20 Lehmans almost happened, and the fed rushed in, lowered interest rates for banks. If there is another big implosion and there is another string of contagion and big banks are dead in the morning, don't expect there to be any money in the accounts in the morning.
I think we're going to see SEVERAL MILLION PRIVATE ACCOUNTS VANISH!
Pension funds, mutual funds- they're all at risk , and people I talk to HAVE NO CLUE. Put your money in GOLD AND SILVER!


Jim Willie interview with Bull Market Thinking:

We are at the verge of a very widespread, colossal theft of private accounts. It's getting really, really dangerous.
Quantitative Easing never ended. It just increased in deception. It increased while the deception got worse. TAKE A LOOK AT THE DATA! IT NEVER STOPPED! Hyper-monetary inflation is the new normal.
We have big European banks selling boatloads of sovereign bonds. The foreign creditors of the US are big sellers of Treasury Bonds. Operation Twist is QE3! Quantitative Easing is now the policy, its gone global! What they're trying to do is not talk about it, because talking about it hurts the dollar. They're just not talking about it! There's been a huge spurt in the past few months of derivatives- $9 Trillion in the past quarter alone from Morgan Stanley! Can you say $9 Trillion in interest rate swaps in order to create the impression that money is flowing into treasury bonds!?! This is getting incredibly dangerous! This just continues to make it worse!
No policy is working towards a solution. We don't have any insolvent banks being liquidated. We don't have any policy towards bringing back jobs from China. The deception and bad economic policy is hiding perpetual RUIN!
The two pillars of US economic policy are 1. Give money to the banks in the hopes they increase lending (but they only give more bonuses) 2. and panhandle consumers.
I think we need to give jobs to people so they can earn the money- increase industry!
Unless the housing market recovers, the banks face systemic failure!

I believe we saw two major failures with MF Global. I think it will end up being up to $5-$10 Billion dollars in stolen client accounts. I have one contact who they confiscated his entire account- I think he had over $100,000- it's missing. He made a complaint a few days ago that the receipts that prove his account- they were just seized by the receivership committee! They confiscated the evidence of his account! We have JP Morgan trying to sit on the board making decisions on stolen money, when they did the stealing!
We had a COMEX system failure in November. COMEX was ready to default on gold and silver in November. Rather than honor delivery demands in gold and silver- JP Morgan simply stole the money in the accounts that were going to stand for delivery. They had their pockets picked while they were standing in line at the delivery window. Notices of delivery were replaced at stolen accounts!
JP Morgan underwrites a lot of credit default swaps. JP Morgan makes a lot of money in this unregulated insurance. How are the sovereign bonds doing? They're doing lousy. In order to stay neutral, its always a good idea to buy the underlying asset. I think MF Global was set up to fail a long time ago to go down in flames- to steal clients' accounts when the inevitable finally happens. We were on the verge of the sovereign debt in Europe imploding. We saw a near event of an implosion in some of these sovereign bonds markets.
JP Morgan covered their butts by letting MF Global fail, and in the process stealing 140,000 accounts. Its not just MF Global accounts, its stealing many accounts that used MF Global for their clearing!
The FBI is investigating this, but they havent talked to Corzine yet. WHY!?! Because this is a cover-up, JUST LIKE MADOFF!
JP Morgan averted both a COMEX default and a European sovereign debt implosion, and notice that JP Morgan increased the amount of silver in their registered vaults by precisely the amount that was supposed to be delivered.
This is just another financial 9/11, and THERE WILL BE MORE.
If JP Morgan can steal 140,000 futures accounts, what's to stop 250,000 MUTUAL FUND ACCOUNTS FROM BEING STOLEN!?!
The Fed was staring at 20 Lehmans in Europe!! 20 Lehmans almost happened, and the fed rushed in, lowered interest rates. If there is another big implosion and there is another string of contagion and big banks are dead in the morning, don't expect there to be any money in the accounts in the morning.
I think we're going to see SEVERAL MILLION PRIVATE ACCOUNTS VANISH!
Pension funds, mutual funds- they're all at risk, and people I talk to HAVE NO CLUE.
Put your money in GOLD AND SILVER!

[skid]

so physical gold and silver is certainly one way to keep your hard earned dosh from disappearing from an acc.
Other suggestions have been property[rental-land bank-etc.]has to be freehold though.
Another thought is a safe deposit box at the bank and simply transfer your cash to it physically[at least that way if you want to chance taking it home no one really knows when your walking out with kilos of paper stuffed in your pants]--[desperate measures for desperate times]

The hard part of course is trying to get a handle on just how bad things have really gotten.
The downside is- gold could drop in value
-real estate could drop in value
-You would be loosing interest
The upside--you would still have something to lose value or lose interest on

[tricha]

[QUOTE=skid;364004]so physical gold and silver is certainly one way to keep your hard earned dosh from disappearing from an acc.
Other suggestions have been property[rental-land bank-etc.]has to be freehold though.
Another thought is a safe deposit box at the bank and simply transfer your cash to it physically[at least that way if you want to chance taking it home no one really knows when your walking out with kilos of paper stuffed in your pants]--[desperate measures for desperate times]

The hard part of course is trying to get a handle on just how bad things have really gotten.
The downside is- gold could drop in value
-real estate could drop in value
-You would be loosing interest
The upside--you would still have something to lose value or lose interest on[/QUOTE

Interesting thoughts Skid, yes the physical suff is what matters. Hey Drillfix what are you doing to protect your assets.
:confused:

It looks like Skid and myself are already doing what they are doing. ( below is an extract out of the link) If it does happen, like the crash of 29, there will be no warning. It will just happen and when you wake in the morning ...........


"As I write this, a lot of investors whom I know personally—who are sophisticated, wealthy, and not at all the paranoid type—are quietly pulling their money out of all brokerage firms, all banks, all equity firms. They are quietly trading out of their paper assets and going into the actual, physical asset"
http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/12/run-on-global-banking-systemhow-close.html
Tuesday, December 27, 2011
A run on the Global Banking System—How Close Are We?

[tricha]

What a sham, could it happen to your cash, you bet it could. In a nano second.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemckenna/2012/01/09/the-neverending-mf-global-story-regulators-block-the-truth-from-coming-out/
The Neverending MF Global Story: Regulators Block The Truth

Here we are, more than two months after the forced liquidation of the MF Global broker dealer - it’s important to note this was no voluntary bankruptcy filing but a liquidation forced on MF Global by the Securities Investor (http://www.forbes.com/companies/investor/) Protection Corp – and the missing $1.2 billion of customer funds has not yet shown up.
The customer assets are gone (http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemckenna/2011/11/09/mf-global-assets-have-left-the-building-how-when-where/), but no one in the officialdom - the two bankruptcy trustees, the CFTC, the SEC, or the Department of Justice – wants to admit just yet that the bankruptcy estate and, therefore, the customers will come up short.
No one but the CME Group (http://cmegroup.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3223) will say that out loud. The CME Group timeline of events (http://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/files/CME-Group-Written-Testimony-HFS-OI-Subcommittee-Hearing-12-15-11.pdf), updated most recently as sworn testimony by Terry Duffy to Congress, is the only reliable timeline out there.
Shortly after the filing on October 31st, all parties, including MF Global’s General Counsel Laurie Ferber, admitted that customer funds were short, not just misplaced. We’ve seen no new “on the record” facts from investigators, trustees, or regulators to refute these dramatic admissions.

[drillfix]

[QUOTE=skid;364004]

Interesting thoughts Skid, yes the physical suff is what matters. Hey Drillfix what are you doing to protect your assets.
:confused:


Me? Assets? What assets, LOL

Umm let me see now, protection right?

Well, Shot Gun's & Machine Guns, Hand Pistols, Electric Fences, Acid Water Pistols, & then the extreme weapon the Ex Girlfirend...Haa~!

[drillfix]

What a sham, could it happen to your cash, you bet it could. In a nano second.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemckenna/2012/01/09/the-neverending-mf-global-story-regulators-block-the-truth-from-coming-out/



Absolutely disgusting Trish.

I mean, if you cant even trust the regulators then honestly we are all doomed to some degree one way or another.


Taken from that article.

it looks like regulators and the bankruptcy trustees are busy suppressing information. Instead of full transparency, regulators and the trustees are holding onto crucial details that might tell us all who was asleep at the wheel when the broker/dealer and futures commission merchant (FCM) headed over the cliff.


Many people may think I am extreme for saying I would love to see Corporate be-headings and the mid evil ways brought back to perish or discourage people whom do things like this, as its always the higher power that seems to make up the rules as they go along.

Which unfortunately means "DO NOT TRUST YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT" as they are puppets of the bigger scheme of things, IMO~!

[denpal]

I am looking at whether I should go back to having my holdings issuer-sponsored even though that is very inconvenient.

Imagine that Etrade goes belly-up. What happens to all your share holdings?

At least with issuer-sponsored there is no counter-party risk. MF Global clients will understand what that means.

[JBmurc]

I am looking at whether I should go back to having my holdings issuer-sponsored even though that is very inconvenient.

Imagine that Etrade goes belly-up. What happens to all your share holdings?

At least with issuer-sponsored there is no counter-party risk. MF Global clients will understand what that means.

Yeah I'm also with E*trade ,my understanding is ANZ owns E*Trade aus so we'd have to see ANZ go down to collaspe Etrade ?? worth looking into

[percy]

ANZ certainly did not do the right thing by VHP nz unit holders by selling the management contract from under them.
I would not trust them.

[JBmurc]

EXPLANATION OF CHESS SPONSORSHIP AGREEMENT
This explanation of the terms of the CHESS Sponsorship Agreement provides you with an outline of the main terms of the CHESS Sponsorship Agreement. Please also read the CHESS Sponsorship Agreement. It is important that you read this document and understand its contents before agreeing to be bound by the Agreement. However if there is anything you do not understand after reading this explanation and the Agreement, we encourage you to ring us on 1300 658 355.
To be able to use CHESS to facilitate settlement of your trades and to maintain details of your holdings on an ongoing basis, you need to be sponsored in CHESS by a broker. Only certain persons may control Financial Products in CHESS. E TRADE Australia fall within this category.

If we breach the Agreement, you can refer the breach to a regulatory authority. You also have certain rights if we are suspended from CHESS participation.
Our ability to meet any claim you make on us will depend, amongst other things, on our financial circumstances at the time the claim is made. We will rely, to the extent possible, on the cover we have under our professional indemnity insurance policy. You may be entitled to make a claim on the National Guarantee Fund.

[JBmurc]

Bit of talk on the hotcopper forum on the CCU thread sounds like not much to worry about outside cash on call

[lakedaemonian]

Has anyone asked the most important question yet:

Why has no one or will no one be held accountable and be punished for the MF Global mess?

John Corzine is a former US Senator, former State Governor, former CEO of JP Morgan.

He is an American Oligarch.

He is untouchable.

Prison is for the little people and drug dealers.

This is an outstanding example of why I left the markets years ago bar a few select equities.

Private businesses, some property(much less than a few years back) precious metals, energy, and cash.

Equities bonds and complex paper financial instruments are a rigged market and a suckers game.

When the market is truly fixed and the likes of Corzine are in jail where they belong then I'll re enter a more fair market.

Don't just query the safety of your cash but the integrity of investment markets themselves.

[skid]

Unfortunately its the age old American problem of major legalized conflict of interest.
Spare a thought for the poor americans who have sons that were being killed in overseas conflicts while their vice president was sitting on the board of Halliburtan which makes war machines.

[lakedaemonian]

Unfortunately its the age old American problem of major legalized conflict of interest.
Spare a thought for the poor americans who have sons that were being killed in overseas conflicts while their vice president was sitting on the board of Halliburtan which makes war machines.

I think this is part of the problem.....

Far too many people just jumping onboard an internet meme.

Halliburton doesn't make weapon systems.

Halliburton's role in a multi-trillion dollar entrenched interest crisis in the US is unfortunately small change.

Is it part of the problem? Absolutely......but it's a piece of fruit hanging high in the tree.....what about the patch of giant mutant watermelons lying on the ground that no one seems to be concerned about?

[tricha]

Has anyone asked the most important question yet:

Why has no one or will no one be held accountable and be punished for the MF Global mess?

John Corzine is a former US Senator, former State Governor, former CEO of JP Morgan.

He is an American Oligarch.

He is untouchable.

Prison is for the little people and drug dealers.

This is an outstanding example of why I left the markets years ago bar a few select equities.

Private businesses, some property(much less than a few years back) precious metals, energy, and cash.

Equities bonds and complex paper financial instruments are a rigged market and a suckers game.

When the market is truly fixed and the likes of Corzine are in jail where they belong then I'll re enter a more fair market.

Don't just query the safety of your cash but the integrity of investment markets themselves.

They are still working on it, if we had robbed a bank ........, They have robbed and we are waiting.

In the mean time, do not trust your broking account, if things go wrong, they will be sacrificed and people will say, so what, the clients were only speculators, the clients of MF Global can testify to that.:(

In MF Global, JPMorgan again at center of a financial








http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120119&t=2&i=560290813&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=BTRE80I01CK00 A flag hangs on the wall of the JP Morgan company stall on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange in New York July 15, 2010.
Credit: Reuters/Lucas Jackson





By Carrick Mollenkamp, Lauren Tara LaCapra (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=lauren.lacapra&) and Matthew Goldstein (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=matthew.goldstein&)
Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:18am EST

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-mfglobal-jpmorgan-idUSTRE80I02520120119

[skid]

I think this is part of the problem.....

Far too many people just jumping onboard an internet meme.

Halliburton doesn't make weapon systems.

Halliburton's role in a multi-trillion dollar entrenched interest crisis in the US is unfortunately small change.

Is it part of the problem? Absolutely......but it's a piece of fruit hanging high in the tree.....what about the patch of giant mutant watermelons lying on the ground that no one seems to be concerned about?
I certainly wouldnt disagree with that and yes,my apologies for getting it wrong about the war maqchines[although,amoung other things, they were awarded a 2.5 billion dollar contract to construct and run military bases,some in secret locations when Cheney was the CEO so the point is the same--He profited big time from the war[s] The fact that he was vice President of the United States makes it seem like a relatively big problem to me--but yes, there are so, many I guess it pales in significance.[googleing Dick Cheney is an eye opener]

[skid]

Im actually quite surprised that it has not been mentioned that when the Obama administration was elected,they were actually considering a bank holiday.
They had 20 or 30 top economists to consult ,but instead called one person for advice--you guest it-Jon Corzine[this was stated in a speech by the vice president] You can draw your own conclusions as to how real the possibility of a bank holiday are,and the caliber of the people who influence major economic policy.

[tricha]

This is fraud on a massive scale, are your funds safe. NO!

MF Global clients uniteBen ButlerJanuary 25, 2012




CLIENTS of MF Global have formed a new group to represent their interests to administrators of the failed broker's Australian arm.
In an email to other MF Global clients, futures trader Brent Penfold, who has been active in agitating for a better deal for clients, said he hoped to hand over his role to the MF Global Australia Client Support Group.
Mr Penfold said the group would be led by accountant and former liquidator Ross Anderson. Share trader and former Deloitte partner John Hancock would also be involved in the group.

Deloitte partner Chris Campbell was appointed administrator of MF Global's Australian arm, which held a $319 million trading book on behalf of about 13,000 clients, on November 1 after the broker's New York-based parent collapsed.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/mf-global-clients-unite-20120124-1qfoe.html#ixzz1kPyOM5DN

[tricha]

This is fraud on a massive scale, are your funds safe. NO!

MF Global clients unite

Ben Butler

January 25, 2012




CLIENTS of MF Global have formed a new group to represent their interests to administrators of the failed broker's Australian arm.
In an email to other MF Global clients, futures trader Brent Penfold, who has been active in agitating for a better deal for clients, said he hoped to hand over his role to the MF Global Australia Client Support Group.
Mr Penfold said the group would be led by accountant and former liquidator Ross Anderson. Share trader and former Deloitte partner John Hancock would also be involved in the group.

Deloitte partner Chris Campbell was appointed administrator of MF Global's Australian arm, which held a $319 million trading book on behalf of about 13,000 clients, on November 1 after the broker's New York-based parent collapsed.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/mf-global-clients-unite-20120124-1qfoe.html#ixzz1kPyOM5DN

Our money is not safe in a broker account, because your money is not safe in these banks and the 1st thing that will happen in any crunch, is, they will steal our broker account funds at a whim. Who will care?:confused:

Big banks told to raise capital levels Eric JohnstonJanuary 24, 2012 - 5:04PM
SAS.com/Performance-Management (http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BsubTkjMfT-HBC8vDkAX-74yEDeaKqaQC_vTa-RjOkaLTcsDfchABGAEg8sXtCCgEOABQ56vCqgNgq5yzhYwpoAG O05j3A7IBEXd3dy50aGVhZ2UuY29tLmF1yAEB2gFcaHR0cDovL 3d3dy50aGVhZ2UuY29tLmF1L2J1c2luZXNzL2JpZy1iYW5rcy1 0b2xkLXRvLXJhaXNlLWNhcGl0YWwtbGV2ZWxzLTIwMTIwMTI0L TFxZXQzLmh0bWz4AQGpAmjnOw64NKs-wAIJyALI5vEFqAMB6AMl6AOQBugDB_UDAgAABPUDIAAAAA&num=1&sig=AOD64_36q6TKcHgjr47MkzEct1aRECbRbA&client=ca-fairfax-age_js&adurl=http://www.sas.com/offices/asiapacific/sp/resources/nz/performancemanagement.html)
Effective Performance Management. Download Free White Paper Now.


Economists at the International Monetary Fund have called on Australia’s biggest banks to bolster their levels of capital even further, warning the sector may not be able to withstand the dual shock of a residential property downturn and losses on corporate lending.
The finding follows a stress test of Australia’s banking system run by the IMF late last year which modelled the impact of an Irish-style economic crunch taking place locally.
The views, contained in an IMF research paper circulated by economists by Byung Kyoon Jang and Niamh Sheridan, come as Australian banks are already pushing ahead to meet tougher global banking rules known as Basel III.




Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/big-banks-told-to-raise-capital-levels-20120124-1qet3.html#ixzz1kPzsLCut

[tricha]

What's next?
09 February 2012MF Global: Trail Growing Cold - 'No One to Blame"'





http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RmTqu4KTSGc/TzSVLChaFwI/AAAAAAAAUhk/Sqlt6qa2K-Q/s320/banksterchess.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RmTqu4KTSGc/TzSVLChaFwI/AAAAAAAAUhk/Sqlt6qa2K-Q/s1600/banksterchess.jpg)
I did predict something like this would happen in about the second week of the scandal, didn't I?

Did you ever imagine that in America a major brokerage firm would brazenly steal over a billion dollars in customer funds and assets, and that no one would even be prosecuted?

And that the financiers would use the courts to just keep the money, and basically tell the broker's customers to eat ****?

The money? Oh no, that's just vaporized. Just a freak accident, practically an act of God. Very mysterious, but could not happen again. Protection? Sorry don't know anything about that.

No one knows anything. Except that the financial system can't be trusted, and that nothing in it is safe. But they are afraid to admit it.


Reuters Africa (http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL2E8D9IKR20120209)
ANALYSIS-Criminal probe trail going cold at MF Global
Thu Feb 9, 2012 10:54pm GMT

Feb 9 (Reuters) - When commodities brokerage MF Global imploded, the FBI and federal prosecutors were quick to launch an investigation to pursue what seemed obvious to outspoken regulators and lawmakers: laws were broken and crimes were committed.

More than three months later, it is far from clear that anyone will face criminal charges over the disappearance of more than $600 million in customer money as MF Global spiraled towards bankruptcy in the brokerage's final, frantic days in the last week of October.

So far, the MF Global investigation is not tracking the early progress of other high-profile financial scandals such as RefCo, where former Chairman Phil Bennett was arrested within days of the disclosure that the futures firm had been hiding losses for years.

Lawyers and people familiar with the MF Global investigation of the firm that was run by former Goldman Sachs head Jon Corzine say that even though the hunt is still on to find out whether or not officials at MF Global intended to pilfer customer money in a desperate bid to keep the brokerage from failing, the trail at this point is growing cold.

To date, scant evidence of criminal intent has emerged in company emails, no former or current employees have sought to cut a deal to provide testimony about potential wrongdoing and seasoned defense lawyers say they are not seeing the tell-tale signs of a hot criminal investigation.

A source familiar with the work of Louis Freeh, trustee for the MF Global holding company that filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, says investigators have yet to find evidence of fraud in the multi-faceted and complex investigation. (Perhaps stealing and then passing on stolen goods as your own does not qualify as fraud? And what is the MF Global trustee, Lous Freeh, who invokes attorney client privilege with MFG, doing running the investigation? - Jesse)

The source, who declined to be identified because Freeh's office is still conducting its inquiry, says there was plenty of "chaos" at MF Global in its waning days, but "no evidence of fraud." Freeh is a former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Freeh)...

Read the rest here (http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL2E8D9IKR20120209).


Drei Groschen Oper - Die Moritat von Mackie Messer English translation (http://german.about.com/library/blmus_hknef04e.htm).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-16CJlOdCX4A/TzSXnd44-aI/AAAAAAAAUh0/npvM29jyRsU/s320/Obama+corzine.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-16CJlOdCX4A/TzSXnd44-aI/AAAAAAAAUh0/npvM29jyRsU/s1600/Obama+corzine.jpg)


Yes We Can!




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BHE5y0a73WA/TzSXo2zBOnI/AAAAAAAAUh8/SRm2LRRosFA/s1600/mackiebanker3.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BHE5y0a73WA/TzSXo2zBOnI/AAAAAAAAUh8/SRm2LRRosFA/s1600/mackiebanker3.JPG)



Posted byJesseat10:15 PMEmail This (http://www.blogger.com/share-post.g?blogID=6418112515382102078&postID=1221821888217278485&target=email)BlogThis! (http://www.blogger.com/share-post.g?blogID=6418112515382102078&postID=1221821888217278485&target=blog)Share to Twitter (http://www.blogger.com/share-post.g?blogID=6418112515382102078&postID=1221821888217278485&target=twitter)Share to Facebook (http://www.blogger.com/share-post.g?blogID=6418112515382102078&postID=1221821888217278485&target=facebook)



http://img2.blogblog.com/img/icon18_edit_allbkg.gif (http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=6418112515382102078&postID=1221821888217278485&from=pencil)
Category:MF Global (http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/MF%20Global)

[tricha]

Whos next ????
MFGlobal Reveals You Are A Bank Counter-Party (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/volcker-rule-mfglobal-bankcounterparty/)http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/blog/wp-content/themes/thebigpicture/images/buttons/email_this.gif (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/volcker-rule-mfglobal-bankcounterparty/email/)http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/blog/wp-content/themes/thebigpicture/images/buttons/print_page.gif (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/volcker-rule-mfglobal-bankcounterparty/print/)
By Barry Ritholtz - February 15th, 2012, 7:30AM

The esteemed former Fed Chairman, Paul Volcker, introduced a very simple regulatory concept that bears his name: The Volcker Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcker_Rule). It was part of the Dodd-Frank regulatory reforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer _Protection_Act) passed after the financial crisis of 2008-09.
There has been enormous pushback against what should be a simple piece of prophylactic rules on proprietary trading by depository banks (see this Jamie Dimon commentary (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/the-volcker-rule-and-the-costs-of-good-intentions/?src=tp) as an example). Why? The profits of speculation goes to banks, driving bonuses and compensation; but the ultimate risk of loss lay with the FDIC and taxpayer. If the banks blow up, someone else besides the banker pays.
Privatized gains, socialized losses.
I want to take a few moments to briefly explain why this rule is so important to taxpayers, especially following the collapse of MF Global and the loss of billions of client assets.
Recall the basic facts of MFG: Management engaged in leveraged speculations with monies — whether it was their own or clients became irrelevant as the losses were so great as to wipe out much more capital than the bank actually had. Billions in losses meant MFG was insolvent and was wound down. On the winning sides of those trades were folks like JPM and George Soros. It is neither their duty nor obligation to verify whose money is on the other side of the trade — the clearing firms make sure the trade settles.
Those trade settlements are the only possible outcome. Why? Imagine a burglar robs a house of cash, goes to a casino and loses the money playing Roulette. The Casino settles that bet, it clears — and the burgled homeowner can never recover the money. Exchanges work the same way. They simply cannot validate the capital sources of every transaction. In the case of MFG, he money wasn’t even burgled — it was simply entrusted to an entity that became so insolvent thru excess speculation that even money in “Segregated accounts” was highly compromised.
And therein lay the dirty little secret of modern banking: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SEGREGATED ACCOUNT. It is simply a helpful way to think about money and banking; it does not exist in the real world.
Consider your basic bank account — checking, savings, passbook, etc. We go through massive contortions to create an illusion that your money is yours, that its safe and sound in a bank with your name on it, in your own virtual safe deposit box. But that is simply not the reality of modern banking. What you perceive as “your money” is little more than an electronic journal on the banks accounting ledgers.
Fractional reserve banking means that the $100 you deposit is lent out — only $10 of your $100 is kept in reserve. Under normal circumstances, with thousands of depositors and millions of dollars, the banks have no trouble giving customers who ask for their money back the full amount at anytime. But it is not as if your money is sitting in an account waiting for you — you merely have a claim on those monies, and that claim is insured by the FDIC, and backed by taxpayers (theoretically).
You are, in fact, a counter-party to your bank.
In the old days, banks were boring. 3-6-3 banking meant borrowing at 3%, lending at 6%, be on the links at 3pm. It was simple. Banks were a utility, making reliable steady money, so long as they didn’t do anything too stupid to screw it up. Glass Steagall, the depression era legislation, prevented them from engaging in the sort of risky Wall Street speculation that caused so much trouble over the years. Think MFGlobal to get a better understanding of what is involved.
Thanks to the sheer ideological idiocy of Phil Gramm, enabled by the corruption of former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and the hubris of former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, Glass Steagall was repealed. Thus, banks could be as stupid as they want to be — and you get to foot the bill.
What does all this have to do with the Volcker rule and MF Global? It is quite simple: Today’s post Glass Steagall repeal Bankers engage in leveraged speculation that potentially could blow the bank up. They did it to themselves with sub-prime mortgages; have no doubt that someone is working on the next ‘financial innovation’ whose losses will be even bigger and better than RMBS and CDOs.
When the next bank blows up — note I said when and not if — their depositors will become counter-parties. Those depositors are you, just like MF Global’s. Only, you as counter-part are not first in line with a claim on the monies — the folks on the other side of the trade get first dibs.
So this bank blows up, the trades settle, the counter party banks/brokers get paid, and whatever is left (if anything) goes to depositors. The FDIC will make good up to $250,000. FDIC’s budgets comes from a small fee on banks. If the losses are great enough, it will exceed their budget and so the taxpayer than makes up the difference.
The risks and rewards are, to use a big word, “asymmetric.” Hit a home run as a trader or banker, collect a huge bonus. Lose it all and then some, and the taxpayer is on the hook. Anyone who fails to see the simple math of this either spends their days shilling for banks or are acting as CEO mouthpieces.
Privatized gains, socialized losses.

PERMALINK (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/volcker-rule-mfglobal-bankcounterparty/)
Category: Bailouts (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/category/bailouts/), Regulation (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/category/regulation/).

[tricha]

Warren Buffett holds Goldman Sacks, Warren's broken his own rules and if you look at them carfully, he will probably go down. From what we know MF glabal was looted by Goldman.
Prove the last statement wrong! or right and we will know where the money went.
In the meantime, have a close look where your cash is stored.. , no where is safe these days.


14 March 2012 Last updated at 11:43 GMT
Goldman Sachs director in London quits 'toxic' bank
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56126000/jpg/_56126500_goldman_getty.jpg Goldman is considered one of the world's top banks
Continue reading the main story (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/#story_continues_1) Related Stories

Goldman Sachs: Villains or victims?
What's wrong with executive pay?
Profile: Lloyd Blankfein

A manager at US banking giant Goldman Sachs in London has quit, saying he could no longer work there "in good conscience".
Greg Smith, who headed Goldman's equity derivatives business in Europe, said it was common to hear talk of ripping off their "muppet" clients.
"The environment now is as toxic and destructive as I have ever seen it," he wrote in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/opinion/why-i-am-leaving-goldman-sachs.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all).
Goldman said it disagreed with what Mr Smith wrote.
"We disagree with the views expressed, which we don't think reflect the way we run our business," a Goldman spokeswoman said.
"In our view, we will only be successful if our clients are successful. This fundamental truth lies at the heart of how we conduct ourselves."
Mr Smith said in his editorial that he appeared in Goldman's recruitment video, shown at universities around the world.
"I knew it was time to leave when I realised I could no longer look students in the eye and tell them what a great place this was to work," he wrote.
"It makes me ill how callously people talk about ripping their clients off. Over the last 12 months I have seen five different managing directors refer to their own clients as 'muppets', sometimes over internal email."
'Vampire squid'
Following the financial crisis, Goldman was among those bailed out by the US taxpayer and came under fire for its business practices, including accusations that it helped Greece hide some of its massive debts.
Rolling Stone magazine once likened Goldman to "a vampire squid wrapped round the face of humanity".
But the bank has denied any wrongdoing.
Famously, chief executive Lloyd Blankfein once told the Sunday Times that banks were "doing God's work", a phrase which made headlines around the world - but was meant as a joke.
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) opened a fraud investigation in 2010 over the marketing of mortgage investments as the US housing market faltered.
These featured emails from trader Fabrice Tourre saying that "the entire system is about to crumble any moment" in 2007.
Goldman Sachs agreed to pay $550m (£356m) to settle civil fraud charges of misleading investors in 2010 - the biggest fine for a bank in the SEC's history.
Goldman was also fined £17.5m by the UK's financial regulator, the Financial Services Authority, for failing to tell it that the bank was being investigated by the SEC.

[drillfix]

Excellent post Tricha.

Goes to show that there are some honest people in the Hell Hole called the finance industry whereby they Lie to make a living and cheat taxpayers and the working class.

Many of you know, I think we should be able to not move forward, but move backwards for just a short time to Chop of their Fricking Heads to make examples of them and to show what happens when you deliberately deceive people and abuse your powers and self worth.

Or make it modern event by way of a machine gun against a large wall without a blind fold so the public can at least say, they deserved it and confirm they no longer exist or are able to repeat the same event.

[Toulouse - Luzern]

The revelations.
The entire memo (5 pages) of the United States House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services Memo 23 March 2012, as referenced below, is well worth a read.

Especially for anyone who has significant funds, or any funds, entrusted to a Financial Services organisation.

Context:
Alleged losses of $1.6B are reportedly being investigated.

CNBC Article of 23 March 2012:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46838268
"MF Global's Corzine Ordered Transfer of Client Funds: Memo
MF Global CEO Jon Corzine authorized the transfer of $200 million in customer funds to cover a shortfall just before the broker-dealer collapsed last year, according to a congressional memo.

The $200 million transfer in customer funds from a JPMorgan account was made to cover a $175 million overdraft in one of MF Global's accounts in London, the memo said.

In an October 2011 email, just days before the firm's collapse, former MF Global assistant treasurer Edith O'Brien said the transfer was being made "Per JC's (Jon Corzine's) direct instructions," according to the memo."

"Recognizing the liquidity stress that MF Global was operating under, JPMorgan Chase sought to validate the appropriateness of the transfer," the memo says. "JPMC Chief Risk officer Barry Zubrow called Mr. Corzine directly to seek assurances that the funds transferred to cover the overdraft funds that belonged to MF Global and not customer funds."

(Click for the entire memo)

United States House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services Memo 23 March
http://financialservices.house.gov/UploadedFiles/20120323162955991.pdf

[tricha]

The revelations.
The entire memo (5 pages) of the United States House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services Memo 23 March 2012, as referenced below, is well worth a read.

Especially for anyone who has significant funds, or any funds, entrusted to a Financial Services organisation.

Context:
Alleged losses of $1.6B are reportedly being investigated.

CNBC Article of 23 March 2012:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46838268
"MF Global's Corzine Ordered Transfer of Client Funds: Memo
MF Global CEO Jon Corzine authorized the transfer of $200 million in customer funds to cover a shortfall just before the broker-dealer collapsed last year, according to a congressional memo.

The $200 million transfer in customer funds from a JPMorgan account was made to cover a $175 million overdraft in one of MF Global's accounts in London, the memo said.

In an October 2011 email, just days before the firm's collapse, former MF Global assistant treasurer Edith O'Brien said the transfer was being made "Per JC's (Jon Corzine's) direct instructions," according to the memo."

"Recognizing the liquidity stress that MF Global was operating under, JPMorgan Chase sought to validate the appropriateness of the transfer," the memo says. "JPMC Chief Risk officer Barry Zubrow called Mr. Corzine directly to seek assurances that the funds transferred to cover the overdraft funds that belonged to MF Global and not customer funds."

(Click for the entire memo)

United States House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services Memo 23 March
http://financialservices.house.gov/UploadedFiles/20120323162955991.pdf

Well, I thought this was a robbery, under the cover of dark. Cyprus is Daylight robbery . caught by TV cameras. Who's next.

[GSeed]

Hi, I think it's important we keep this thread alive. My question: Is Direct Share Registration able to be done (and safely) for ASX/NZX while keeping your current broker?

(eg. Computershare for the NZ power companies being (50%) privatised by the govt.)

What can we do for superannuation (aussie) and kiwisaver (NZ) providers? Can we expect the re-hypo problem to be a major issue with those providers? - it seems to me probably an issue. Thoughts?

I also hear of some issues for US shares, but hopefully direct registration addresses it fully. Issues with the DTCC - more shares outstanding than can actually be settled - as discussed by Greg Hunter and Bix Weir. Dubious information? I'm not convinced it can be disregarded.


Its okay to steal from the Russian Mafia :-)

Given the system we're under, it's possible more theft to come eventually. Perhaps actual fighting with the Russians may provide cover. While the real problems with the (debt-based exponential) monetary system aren't addressed.