Which Kiwisavers do you rate?

[Joshuatree]

Hi ,i keepprocastinating re signing up as i don't want to end with an insipid performance provider and making little.Whats been good for you performance wise? (Been a hard few years for gains). Being 7 years away from collecting i want to be in to collect something besides my own variable attempts in the mkts.Appreciate thoughts, cheers

[ENP]

Anywhere there are low fees are the ones to go for.

I like Superlife.

[lou]

Anywhere there are low fees are the ones to go for.

I like Superlife.

I also use Superlife. I think them are the best provider.

[D B Cooper]

Agreed - Superlife is the best, can pick and mix allocations to different areas and move quickly, also low fees and good service.

[CJ]

I have recently moved to Superlife based on recommendations here. The flexibility and low fees are what attracted me.

[fungus pudding]

Anywhere there are low fees are the ones to go for.

I like Superlife.

High profits should be the criterion. Noit the fees.

[Joshuatree]

High profits should be the criterion. Noit the fees. Its amazing how fees can affect the performance fungus;do you have a provider you can recco?.Thanks CJ,D B,,Lou ,how has the performance,return been. cheers

[karen1]

http://www.consumersaver.org.nz/kiwisaver/pages/calcform

http://www.goodreturns.co.nz/kiwisaver-provider-table.html

Some homework for you!

Personally, I have always struggled to compare providers, as no one product is the same as another, they all appear to be structured differently, fees as well.

I started with Gareth Morgan, switched to Fisher. Currently thinking I might have a look at Milford, Superlife.

Always remember that you can change the structure (balanced/growth etc) about twice a year with most providers, no cost)

Good luck with your choice!

[fungus pudding]

Its amazing how fees can affect the performance fungus;do you have a provider you can recco?.Thanks CJ,D B,,Lou ,how has the performance,return been. cheers

It's the result that matters, so look for performance. A fund that has double the fees, and makes quadruple the gains would be better than simply going for low fees. Sometimes you actually do get what you pay for. I have no idea who is any good. I've taken no interest. I retired 30 odd years ago and turn 65 next year, so I just opted for the first name that come into my head that I considered safe, or likely to avoid volatility in the short time frame I had. I picked Garreth Morgan, but I'm only there for the $1k kick start and the tax credit and pay the minimum $100 per month. In the scheme of things it's so trivial that I can't be bothered even thinking about changing. I'm well set up, but if I were younger, I' d stay well clear of Morgan.

[voltage]

Superlife for my wife, has good flexibility and craigs for myself I choose what shares or funds I want in it. Superlife is ahead.

[Joshuatree]

Many thanks folks for your sharings.A wealth of Health to all.

[smpl]

I'm well set up, but if I were younger, I' d stay well clear of Morgan.

care to elaborate?

[CJ]

care to elaborate?I understand that the returns from Gareth Morgan have been less than stella, despite his constant criticism of his competitors.

However, it sounds like Fungus Pudding has such a small amount in Kiwisaver that it is not worth changing, given his proximity to retirement (access to the funds and in particular, all the government contributions) and the fact that if he moves elsewhere for such a short time, they may perform just as badly (better the devil you know ...).

[fungus pudding]

care to elaborate?

I'm not suggesting others should avoid him, but the more I listen to him, the less I like him. Just a persoanal thing. He hasn't done that well with his funds, and now sold out to Kiwibank but staying on as manager, or some such arrangement.

[fungus pudding]

I understand that the returns from Gareth Morgan have been less than stella, despite his constant criticism of his competitors.

However, it sounds like Fungus Pudding has such a small amount in Kiwisaver that it is not worth changing, given his proximity to retirement (access to the funds and in particular, all the government contributions) and the fact that if he moves elsewhere for such a short time, they may perform just as badly (better the devil you know ...).

That's about it. I retired many years asgo, but joined in for the tax credit till I'm 65, but paid the minimum $100 per month, so nothing to get excited about.

[p2r]

OK Head to head Superlife NZ Shares: Hellaby NZ Ryman Healthcare NZ
Ebos NZ
Skellerup Holdings NZ
Auckland Int'l Airport NZ Mainfreight NZ Freightways NZ
Fletcher Building NZ F&P Appliances NZ
Sky Network TV NZ Westpac NZ Chorus Limited NZ
ANZ Bank NZ Methven Limited NZ Pacific Edge NZ Sky City NZ Delegat's Group NZ
F&P Healthcare NZ
Abano Healthcare NZ Nuplex NZ
Cavalier NZ
Rakon NZ
Oceana Gold NZ
Cue Energy Resource Ltd

[p2r]

And Milford Growth EBOS (NZ) 4.9% Mainfreight (NZ) 1.4% Invocare (AUST) 1.0%
Ryman Healthcare (NZ) 4.7% Cromwell Group (AUST) 1.4% Auckland Airport (NZ) 0.9%
Diligent (NZ) 4.5% Tower (NZ) 1.3% Coca-Cola Amatil (AUST) 0.9%
Delegat’s (NZ) 2.9% APA Group (AUST) 1.3% Amcor (AUST) 0.9%
Telecom (NZ) 2.9% Sky City (NZ) 1.3% Briscoes Group (NZ) 0.9%
Turners Auctions (NZ) 2.4% Ecoya (NZ) 1.3% Xero (NZ) 0.9%
Spark Infrastructure (AUST) 2.3% Ramsay Health Care (AUST) 1.3% Mirvac (AUST) 0.9%
Chorus (NZ) 2.1% Fletcher Building (NZ) 1.2% Infratil (NZ) 0.8%
Restaurant Brands (NZ) 1.9% Ecoya (NZ) 1.2%
Trade Me Group (NZ) 1.7% Kauri Property Trust (NZ) 1.1% Various Other Holdings* 17.9%
Telstra (AUST) 1.6% Tourism Holdings (NZ) 1.1% Bonds 7.1%
Sky TV (NZ) 1.5% Oil Search (AUST) 1.1% Cash 19.4%

[p2r]

And I guess superlife Aust - though I see Milfords biggest holding is 20% CASH


Coca-Cola Amatil Ltd 4.8%
Monadelphous Group Ltd 4.7%
AGL Energy AUST 4.7%
Campbell Brothers AUST 4.6%
Resmed INC AUST 4.6%
Sonic Healthcare AUST 4.5%
Woolworths AUST 4.5%
BHP Billiton AUST 4.5%
Wesfarmers AUST 4.4%
ANZ AUST 4.4%
Amcor AUST 4.3%
Sydney Airport AUST 4.2%
Ansell AUST 4.1%
Westpac Banking AUST 4.0%
QBE Insurance Group AUST 3.8%
Silver Lake Resources AUST 3.8%
Suncorp AUST 3.6%
Fortescue Metals AUST 3.4%
Brambles AUST 3.4%

[p2r]

Over 3 yrs Superlife NZ shares 3yrs 11.1% Aust shares 4.2% Milford Growth 10%

Fees Superlife 1. The administration fee is a net $33 a year that is deducted at the rate of $2.75 a month.
2. Percentage of asset fee
The percentage of asset fee charged by SuperLife is 0.2% p.a. of assets. This is deducted off the investment return before the return is credited to your KiwiSaver Account.

Investment management
SuperLife implements the investment option decisions of its KiwiSaver members, by investing in the equivalent investment option under SuperLife’s superannuation scheme (“SLSS”). This is a separate registered superannuation scheme that is part of the SuperLife offering. The investment management fees are the fees under this scheme - no investment management fees are deducted from the SLKS.

The current investment fees charged by the investment managers before the returns are paid to SuperLife's KiwiSaver scheme are:

Pool
Before-tax investment management fees (p.a.)

Cash 0.30%
NZ bonds

0.33%
Overseas govt. bonds 0.34%
Overseas non-govt. bonds

0.38%
Property 0.40%
NZ shares 0.40%
Australian shares 0.40%
Overseas shares (currency hedged) 0.36%
Overseas shares (unhedged) 0.35%
Milford Milford KiwiSaver Plan Fee Structure
Milford Active Growth Fund

Member Registry and Administration Fee
$36 per annum

Management Fee 1.05%
This includes all Fund operating costs including; Trustee, custodial, accounting, unit pricing, audit and other expenses. Management Fees are rebated where the Active Growth Fund invests into the Milford Active Growth Unit Trust Fund.

Performance Fee
15% of the performance of the Active Growth Unit Trust Fund (after deducting the management fee) above the target return of 10.0% per annum is potentially payable to Milford.

[p2r]

Milford is active and Superlife passive although you can switch as often as you like between many classes so you could be active.

I am with Superlife but could be tempted to leave it to Mr Gaynors team - if I was to be more hands off.

[p2r]

But on fees every year you pay 0.6% to superlife or 1.1% to Milford of your total funds

[CJ]

But on fees every year you pay 0.6% to superlife or 1.1% to Milford of your total fundsDont forget that Milford also takes a performance fee. Good incentive for them to do well but not well targeted in my opinion. A rising tide lifts all boats so a even if they perform well just because the NZX performs well, then they get the performance fee. Ideally it should be payable only if the fund performs over and above the index.

[ScrappyO]

I have put my 4yr old and 7yr old into a westpac kiwisaver. I did have to open an account for them and make one deposit a year but at least they have no fees. They were briefly with fisher but i could see the fees would erode the intial capital especially since im not contributing at the moment for them.

[CJ]

I have put my 4yr old and 7yr old into a westpac kiwisaver. I did have to open an account for them and make one deposit a year but at least they have no fees. They were briefly with fisher but i could see the fees would erode the intial capital especially since im not contributing at the moment for them.I have considered to this for my baby but have decided against it at this stage. The benefit is the $1000 kick start but my view was this would be errored by inflation and fees by the time they are 18 (ie. when they start contributing) that the beneift is minimal and may have implications - ie. once in, you may not be able to elect out so he might have to do kiwisaver on his paper round.

[CJ]

I am with Superlife but am starting to wonder about their investment decisions.

They have taken part in two placements (exclusive) recently at market value - Energy Mad and Wellington Drive. Considering both are basket cases, you would expect them to get the placement at a discount!

Any thoughts on this. Maybe I should have chosen Milford who was my second pick but I liked the flexibility to choose investment options at Superlife.

[noodles]

I am with Superlife but am starting to wonder about their investment decisions.

They have taken part in two placements (exclusive) recently at market value - Energy Mad and Wellington Drive. Considering both are basket cases, you would expect them to get the placement at a discount!

Any thoughts on this. Maybe I should have chosen Milford who was my second pick but I liked the flexibility to choose investment options at Superlife.

I totally agree. Are they are mad investing in MAD and WDT? Still, Milford recently invested in MOA!!!

I like Piefunds aussie portfolio of small caps. Have owned many of the stocks on his list in the past. However, expect it to take an exaggerated hit on a market correction.

[CJ]

Noodle - Pie funds don't do Kiwisaver. I wish there was a DIY option for Kiwisaver like the Ozzies have
Just goes to show the lack of good investments in NZ for the flood of Kiwisaver funds

[noodles]

Noodle - Pie funds don't do Kiwisaver. I wish there was a DIY option for Kiwisaver like the Ozzies have
Just goes to show the lack of good investments in NZ for the flood of Kiwisaver funds

Totally agree about the self-managed funds. Perhaps if kiwisaver becomes compulsory, this might be an option. I don't like other people managing my money. Not even Brian Gaynor:)

DISC: Not in Kiwisaver

[noodles]

Actually, I think Craigs might do a hybrid self managed kiwisaver.
http://www.craigsip.com/Services/KiwiSaver/kiwiSTART-Select.aspx

[CJ]

Actually, I think Craigs might do a hybrid self managed kiwisaver.
http://www.craigsip.com/Services/KiwiSaver/kiwiSTART-Select.aspx
I did look at that but I decided not to at this point because of high fees.

Annual fee Management fee Brokerage
Craigs: $60 1.25% 1.25% buy and sell
Superlife $33 0.3 - 0.77%* 0% to switch funds

*NZ shares is 0.4% by way of comparison.

As my fund gets bigger I might consider it but at this stage, the average fees per year would be quite high, and there would be a lot of buying small parcels (think about how much you would contribute each month - do you choose a share monthly or just wait till you get a reasonable amount ($5k+) which may take awhile at minimum contributions, even with an above average salary?).

NOte: From memory, in Australia even the providers dont recommend a self mananged super scheme unless your fund is over $100k due to costs, though you can throw all sorts of things in like your home and get a tax benefit.

[lou]

As kiwisaver matures we will get more flexibility and more options.

[p2r]

Well looks like it is not kiwisaver that has been boosting nz shares. More super fund & overseas managed funds maybe.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10861481

I think maybe having a lot in bonds is not going to return much so shares could be better, turning to cash at some stage.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Tumeric probably the same as banking they stuffed most things up by going with national bank web site instead of the excellent ANZ one. What a balls up probably just just shifted the balance & not the details.

[iceman]

A little anecdote regarding my experience with Onepath:
So I am a full time student and therefore do not contribute a whole lot to my kiwisaver fund via contributions taken from my wages. As a result every year I get in touch with my provider to get a financial year to date summary to determine how much money I will need to deposit to make sure I get the full government contribution for the year (the member tax credit).
This year I was a little early in making my call to Onepath (my new provider as of this time last year). Long story short , the Lady I spoke to said she wasn’t able to give me this summary, rather she would send me via post a document containing all the transactions made in my Kiwisaver funds this financial year (roughly a 20 page document) and I should add them all up. I told her that there was no way I wanted to add up 20 pages of numbers, her reply was “neither do we”!!
I said to her surely as the provider surely she should be able to provide me these details. She put me on hold, talked to her supervisor, and came back and said the information would be in the mail. I said, great, but I wanted to confirm that the information I wanted would be in there, summarised as I had requested. She said” yup it will be there”. Sure enough 5 days later I received a 20 page document with NO summary.
I have since called again and made an official complaint. One path have NOT made contact with me. I am, on principle now looking for a new provider. One that on the surface at least gives 2 sh#ts about me as a customer and one that knows what they are doing!
Any recommendations on good providers??

Tumeric I have my children with One Path and my wife and I are with Gareth Morgan Kiwisaver. While the returns have been slightly higher for One Path so far, the GMK program has a great and very informative website and great support staff. One Path's reporting and information is pathetic in comparison. Just my 2 cents worth on their reporting and not meant to be recommending any particular service providers as investment choices.

[lou]

Tumeric I have my children with One Path and my wife and I are with Gareth Morgan Kiwisaver. While the returns have been slightly higher for One Path so far, the GMK program has a great and very informative website and great support staff. One Path's reporting and information is pathetic in comparison. Just my 2 cents worth on their reporting and not meant to be recommending any particular service providers as investment choices.

I have heard Gareth morgan is good.

I also like Superlife. You can login and see your balances and returns for any time period.

[777]

Have you logged on to your kiwisaver part of the IRD. All transactions through your pay are there, even if a bit delayed.

[tosspot]

I just use asb what does everyone think of them. Who has the highest return and is the most stable.

[lou]

I just use asb what does everyone think of them. Who has the highest return and is the most stable.

I don't like the bank kiwisaver providers. You are better of to choosing a specialist investment manager.

[RazorX]

If knowing where your money is invested, and very clear easy to read reporting are important to you then Gareth Morgan is the place to go. Might not have the highest return in the market, but I think their investment decisions are sound and are less likely to take a massive hit when the market downturns. (Which it will)

The other two I'd consider are Milford and Superlife kiwisavers.

(Disc I'm with Gareth Morgan)

[tosspot]

I don't like the bank kiwisaver providers. You are better of to choosing a specialist investment manager.

Do you mind elaborating. would be great if you had a chart or something with the returns and whatnot each provider provides

[minimoke]

Why am I not surprised no refernce had been made to this: http://www.morningstar.co.nz/s/documents/kiwisaver_survey130122.pdf

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have a view on how this new Kiwisaver provider Generate will go? http://www.generatekiwisaver.co.nz/

They invest only in hedge funds. Just an excuse to charge higher fees or could they be onto something?

[Joshuatree]

Well its been great to read all these threads. Progress report , i still havn't signed up with any one; but right now am enjoying the effects of a single gin and tonic. Wasn't long ago i could not drink at all due to Gerd symptons so just one is having the effect of half a bottle. Im 58 so prob would pay to participate. Anywhichway my bro sent me this;"Dark matter is love and, love matters.

[lou]

Does anyone have a view on how this new Kiwisaver provider Generate will go? http://www.generatekiwisaver.co.nz/

They invest only in hedge funds. Just an excuse to charge higher fees or could they be onto something?

There fees seem very high for what they are doing. They take a 1% management fee and they are not directly managing your money. They are investing with other managers who will be charging fees as well.

[minimoke]

Hi there, firstly thanks everyone for the helpful advice. Secondly, re the Morningstar report minimoke, Ive read these a few times before, just checking though, is Morningstar's report typically the best out there in profiliing all the providers and their returns? Cheers.

I don't know about the best, but as far as I'm aware its pretty much the only one that attempts to compare apples with apples. There are so may providers with so many different fee structures with a variety of investment options and fund sizes its not an easy task. As they always say with these types of reports (an the individual provider reports) "past performance is no guarantee of future performance"

[p2r]

2012 Superlife NZ shares made 37% after fees. Probably similar to Milford if you think milford is not 100% nz shares. Superlife did well with their PEB though so may be a one off.

http://www.superlife.co.nz/superlife-investor-update-february-2013.html


http://www.interest.co.nz/kiwisaver/performance-ranking

I use Milford Active Growth and recommend them.

Milford Active
Growth KiwiSaver has also easily been the top-performing
overall KiwiSaver fund over the past five years - Morningstar

http://milfordkiwisaver.co.nz/performance-reports/fund-updates/

AA

[winner69]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893099

So not Kiwibank/Gareth Morgan

Methinks it is the one that the has had previous 'disgreements' with the regulators ..... and one that many are more than satisified with on this thread

[CJ]

Bremner said it was unfortunate the recent announcements had created "a game of guess who?" in the industry and amongst investors.

"But it's unfortunate that a minor matter has been played out in the press in the manner that it has." The FMA has declined to name the two providers and has said its problems in the offer documents were "at the compliance end" of its regulatory scale.What an arse - he makes the situation worse by ruling their funds out as if everyone did it, only the 2 'guilty' funds would be left without an announcement.

[Alz99]

I've recently been looking into this, im 35 and noted the fee calculator today on https://www.sorted.org.nz/calculators/kiwisaver-fees
does anyone know about the Mercer Super Trust KiwiSaver scheme ??? says they have 0% fees.. seems too good to be true?

can anyone offer any advice?

[stoploss]

I've recently been looking into this, im 35 and noted the fee calculator today on https://www.sorted.org.nz/calculators/kiwisaver-fees
does anyone know about the Mercer Super Trust KiwiSaver scheme ??? says they have 0% fees.. seems too good to be true?

can anyone offer any advice?

very difficult to give advice these days and stay within the law without the right qualifications , disclosures , and research on client .
Have a look at http://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/kiwisaver_survey2015Q4.pdf

This will show you over the last 5 years who has a good track record. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. However the guys/girls in the top 3 on the active growth must be doing something right when you compare them to some of the lower performing funds ..... Don't get too caught up in the free fees .. I'd rather be making 14 % PA and paying a reasonable fee, than paying nothing and only getting 6 % .
Think of your fund manager as a sports team ...who would you back to win the World Cup , NZ or Tonga .

[mfd]

This will show you over the last 5 years who has a good track record. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. However the guys/girls in the top 3 on the active growth must be doing something right when you compare them to some of the lower performing funds ..... Don't get too caught up in the free fees .. I'd rather be making 14 % PA and paying a reasonable fee, than paying nothing and only getting 6 % .
Think of your fund manager as a sports team ...who would you back to win the World Cup , NZ or Tonga .

I won't pretend to have done a full literature search, but everything I've read on the subject agrees that past performance really is no guarantee of future performance (example http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1578808) and that on average actively managed funds perform worse than index investing (due essentially to increased costs, UK centred example https://www.institutional.vanguard.co.uk/documents/case-for-index-fund-investing-uk.pdf). So the average active fund does badly, and you can't tell which the above average funds will be.

I don't have a kiwisaver just yet (not a full resident yet), but when I do I'm planning to build a Superlife index portfolio, mostly of overseas shares, as they're cheapest. Higher fees are the only thing I can be absolutely sure about that will impact on my returns. 1% versus 0.5% doesn't sound like a lot, but if you made 5% returns one year, the difference is 10% of your profit, which winds up being a huge amount of money over time. It's also worth pointing out I'm a huge hypocrite as I actively manage my own portfolio outside of kiwisaver but I only have myself to blame for what happens there, and although trading costs are significant I don't have to pay a %age just to hold what I already own.

The Mercer example looks like it's a gremlin in the sorted system, they definitely quote fees on their website https://secure.superfacts.com/web/IWfiles/attachments/Form/NZMST_YourInvestmentOptionsFlyer.pdf

[Alz99]

very difficult to give advice these days and stay within the law without the right qualifications , disclosures , and research on client .
Have a look at http://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/kiwisaver_survey2015Q4.pdf

This will show you over the last 5 years who has a good track record. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. However the guys/girls in the top 3 on the active growth must be doing something right when you compare them to some of the lower performing funds ..... Don't get too caught up in the free fees .. I'd rather be making 14 % PA and paying a reasonable fee, than paying nothing and only getting 6 % .
Think of your fund manager as a sports team ...who would you back to win the World Cup , NZ or Tonga .


thanks .. love this site for info appreciate it.. @stoploss & @mfd:t_up:

seems like ill be changing over to superlife and bringing my partners super over from Australia

[p2r]

Superlife NZ and to some extent Aus shares, property is the most tax efficient as not paying tax on capital gains and getting imputation credits. That makes a difference too.

Also thinking of trying to change my life insurance to them as they are NZ based, no commission and no broker hard sell.

[RRR]

Simplicity - the new low-cost, not-for-profit Kiwisaver provider (from Sam Stubbs) - 0.3% fund management fee for all funds (growth, balanced, conservative) + $30/year.
All investments hedged to NZ dollar - hedging fee is extra but wont be much I think.

I will consider switching!

[stoploss]

Simplicity - the new low-cost, not-for-profit Kiwisaver provider (from Sam Stubbs) - 0.3% fund management fee for all funds (growth, balanced, conservative) + $30/year.
All investments hedged to NZ dollar - hedging fee is extra but wont be much I think.

I will consider switching!
Unless you are in conservative , this does not make sense to me .
Surely the overall performance is of more importance . So I am happy to pay A bit more to get better performance .
Compare the 5 year return of the top Growth funds vs the bottom ones . I have been happy with my Milford returns .

[mfd]

Unless you are in conservative , this does not make sense to me .
Surely the overall performance is of more importance . So I am happy to pay A bit more to get better performance .
Compare the 5 year return of the top Growth funds vs the bottom ones . I have been happy with my Milford returns .

I'd be interested to see the evidence that recent good performance predicts future performance. I know it's intuitive but that doesn't mean it's true. Here's some suggesting low fees are the best predictor of future performance

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=347327

"Expense ratios are strong predictors of performance. In every asset class over every time period, the cheapest quintile produced higher total returns than the most expensive quintile"

Here's another interesting article:

http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/choosing-funds-low-costs-or-high-past-performance/

"picking funds based on superior past performance proved to be less successful than picking randomly"

[stoploss]

I'd be interested to see the evidence that recent good performance predicts future performance. I know it's intuitive but that doesn't mean it's true. Here's some suggesting low fees are the best predictor of future performance

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=347327

"Expense ratios are strong predictors of performance. In every asset class over every time period, the cheapest quintile produced higher total returns than the most expensive quintile"

Here's another interesting article:

http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/choosing-funds-low-costs-or-high-past-performance/

"picking funds based on superior past performance proved to be less successful than picking randomly"

I should have put that disclaimer in there about past performance . I look at it in a sporting way maybe Milford have the financial equivalent of the All Blacks working for them and some of the bottom ranked funds ( comparing like funds) the Wellington Lions ....
I note that article is 2010 , say I have 100 K in my Kiwisaver, what would the opportunity cost have been with some of the cheaper providers over the past 6 years .

https://milfordasset.com/milford-tops-morningstar-kiwisaver-survey/

[mfd]

I should have put that disclaimer in there about past performance . I look at it in a sporting way maybe Milford have the financial equivalent of the All Blacks working for them and some of the bottom ranked funds ( comparing like funds) the Wellington Lions ....
I note that article is 2010 , say I have 100 K in my Kiwisaver, what would the opportunity cost have been with some of the cheaper providers over the past 6 years .

https://milfordasset.com/milford-tops-morningstar-kiwisaver-survey/

No argument, the best fund to have been in for the last 5 years is the fund that performed the best. The trouble is there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence to be able to extrapolate that into the future. It's a leap of faith. The second article I posted had an interesting section that really poor performance probably predicts future poor performance, but once you get out of the dross I think they're all essentially monkeys throwing darts at a list of stocks.

We all make our own decisions, I'll be taking a close look at simplicity as it's looking cheaper than my current superlife mix and ends up invested in the same Vanguard funds at the end of the day. Of course as they're index funds they'll never be top of the tables, but they also won't be able to drop any major clangers, and on average can be expected to perform better than the average actively managed fund (due to lower fees).

[RRR]

Low cost index fund would surely beat the majority of managed funds especially in developed (discovered) markets. Active management is costly. The difference would be profound esp in bear markets - you lose 1-2% (active management fees) vs 0.3-0.5 for index fund.

Fiona McKenzie of NZ super fund is also a big fan of index funds - according to her keep the expense as low a possible and that would make a big difference in the long term. Only a small proportion of NZ super fund is actively managed.

[smpl]

Simplicity - the new low-cost, not-for-profit Kiwisaver provider (from Sam Stubbs) - 0.3% fund management fee for all funds (growth, balanced, conservative) + $30/year.
All investments hedged to NZ dollar - hedging fee is extra but wont be much I think.

I will consider switching!

I think any provider offering international equities exposure at low cost is on the right track. The website is fresh and I hope they do well.

From their Product Disclosure Statement:


While we have a policy of hedging overseas investments 100% to the NZ dollar, on a before tax basis,
there may be fluctuations in value, and the actual percentage may vary. There may also be additional
requirements to pay for the cost of hedging if the NZD is more volatile than predicted.

This is the only thing missing however. Save yourselves money and offer clients the higher reward/higher risk option of no hedging - unhedged portfolios will outperform any of the other current Kiwisaver portfolios long term.


The annual fund charges exclude transaction costs incurred by the funds in which the Scheme invests, and any hedging costs.

You're already superior to Smartshares with your international equities/low cost offering. Now you could beat KiwiWealth/Gareth Morgan (who benchmark 50% hedged/50% unhedged of their 85% international equity exposure) by offering 0% hedged.

Even better would be a service that let the client choose level of hedging...

[Valuegrowth]

http://fundfinder.sorted.org.nz/

http://www.canstar.co.nz/kiwisaver/

[Baaarney]

Another Kiwisaver comparison using 'value of money' assessment considering both fees and investment return (rather than sole focus on fees) http://www.superratings.com.au/kiwisaver

Superlife (my provider) only made Silver (bottom 50%) so I may have to investigate other options

[ratkin]

Another Kiwisaver comparison using 'value of money' assessment considering both fees and investment return (rather than sole focus on fees) http://www.superratings.com.au/kiwisaver

Superlife (my provider) only made Silver (bottom 50%) so I may have to investigate other options

May not continue to underperform though. You might risk jumping out to one that has just had its good spell, and miss the upturn in Superlife.
Tbh most seem pretty lazy, they just stick all the cash into the vanguard ETFs

[FarmerGeorge]

I think any provider offering international equities exposure at low cost is on the right track. The website is fresh and I hope they do well.

From their Product Disclosure Statement:



This is the only thing missing however. Save yourselves money and offer clients the higher reward/higher risk option of no hedging - unhedged portfolios will outperform any of the other current Kiwisaver portfolios long term.



You're already superior to Smartshares with your international equities/low cost offering. Now you could beat KiwiWealth/Gareth Morgan (who benchmark 50% hedged/50% unhedged of their 85% international equity exposure) by offering 0% hedged.

Even better would be a service that let the client choose level of hedging...


Nothing to add to the KS debate - but the comment above about unhedged global portfolios outperforming is incorrect on an historic basis. Over any meaningful timeframe hedged has outperformed unhedged, for NZ investors. This can be verified very easily by comparing global providers where those providers offer the same underlying product on a hedged and unhedged basis. No comment on future returns but the historic data is there for anyone to see.

[huxley]

Nothing to add to the KS debate - but the comment above about unhedged global portfolios outperforming is incorrect on an historic basis. Over any meaningful timeframe hedged has outperformed unhedged, for NZ investors. This can be verified very easily by comparing global providers where those providers offer the same underlying product on a hedged and unhedged basis. No comment on future returns but the historic data is there for anyone to see.

You don't mention it, but the reason for this historic outperformance is caused by the higher short term interest rates in NZ capital markets when compared to overseas markets - this is known as the hedge premium or carry.

In order to gain from this trend the trade off is exposure to increased short term volatility caused by the positive correlation with NZD and equity markets.

I talked to a couple of KiwiSaver providers and most took a high conviction view that the short term downside risk was worth the hedge premium over the longer term.

[RRR]

I have transferred my kiwisaver to Simplicity - very low fees and index tracking attracted me. I am in the process of transferring my wife's kiwisaver as well. They now have 4500 members and 115 million under management (approximately $25,500/member) which is not bad for a new small kiwisaver provider.

[peat]

I'm with Aon Russell Lifepoints, but not set exactly to my age but as if I was ten years younger so that it stays growth oriented a bit longer.
As per the latest morningstar report they consistently perform. Fees are slightly high yes.... oh well never mind.

[Harvey Specter]

I have transferred my kiwisaver to Simplicity - very low fees and index tracking attracted me. I am in the process of transferring my wife's kiwisaver as well. They now have 4500 members and 115 million under management (approximately $25,500/member) which is not bad for a new small kiwisaver provider.I have just moved mine acrross to. Will give them a year, then compare to the wifes, then chat with her about moving hers.

[kiwico]

I have just moved mine acrross to. Will give them a year, then compare to the wifes, then chat with her about moving hers.

Same here. I've moved to Simplicity from Milford - I will be interested in how the results (AFTER fees) compare. I might also move the children from ASB but it is a bit more hassle for minors and I'm not sure I won't everyone's KS in the same boat.

[silu]

Got my latest Tax Certificate from Super Life with which I have my Kiwisaver Growth Fund. Total fees paid p.a. are $427.50. Seems reasonable but how does it compare to some of yours?

[alistar_mid]

Same here. I've moved to Simplicity from Milford - I will be interested in how the results (AFTER fees) compare. I might also move the children from ASB but it is a bit more hassle for minors and I'm not sure I won't everyone's KS in the same boat.

gl with that lol.

you know a % of milfords fees are performance based right??? - "high" fees because you get higher returns

[huxley]

gl with that lol.

you know a % of milfords fees are performance based right??? - "high" fees because you get higher returns

The returns don't look that impressive though...

https://milfordasset.com/performance/fund-performance/

[peat]

The returns don't look that impressive though...

https://milfordasset.com/performance/fund-performance/

well they are impressive according to Morningstar

http://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/KiwiSaver_Survey_2017Q1_Final.pdf

I quote pg 1

The bestperforming KiwiSaver Schemes since inception is MilfordKiwiSaver Active Growth.

refer pg 6 where Milford Conservative is ranked 1st for the 1 year and 3 year categories
refer pg 8 where Milford Balanced is ranked 1st for 1,3 and 5 year categories

[huxley]

well they are impressive according to Morningstar

http://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/KiwiSaver_Survey_2017Q1_Final.pdf

I quote pg 1

The bestperforming KiwiSaver Schemes since inception is MilfordKiwiSaver Active Growth.

refer pg 6 where Milford Conservative is ranked 1st for the 1 year and 3 year categories
refer pg 8 where Milford Balanced is ranked 1st for 1,3 and 5 year categories

https://superlife.co.nz/superlife-s-returns-and-performance-surveys

I suspect you already know this..

[WingingIt]

Paying Milford 1.08% mgmt fee plus performance fees for the Active Growth fund when their biggest investment excluding their cash balance of 17% is a Vanguard fund - Vanguard International Shares Select Exclusions Index Fund (Unhedged).

[peat]

https://superlife.co.nz/superlife-s-returns-and-performance-surveys

I suspect you already know this..

actually I didnt know that. So thank you for the information
I'm not sure that I blithely accept their stated reasoning for non participation in a market survey. I will think about this more....

[alistar_mid]

actually I didnt know that. So thank you for the information
I'm not sure that I blithely accept their stated reasoning for non participation in a market survey. I will think about this more....

the last 3 reasons are somewhat valid, but this one

"

[*=left]As a rule we treat active participation in surveys like any SuperLife advertisement. Under the Act where we publish an advert we need to certify that the ad (in this case the survey) is not misleading. With external surveys, we cannot do that, as we believe that some other provider returns are not always accurate and where they are accurate the different strategies adopted make them not always comparable. We therefore think that if we actively participated and actively supplied our data, we would be guilty of breaching the spirit of the Act. While technically we may not have breached the Act, we prefer to set a higher standard than the bare legislative minimum.
"

"the spirit of the act" lmao.....

[Joshuatree]

KiwiSaver Survey | March Quarter 2019 (https://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/KiwiSaver-Survey-Q1-2019.pdf)

[SBQ]

KiwiSaver Survey | March Quarter 2019 (https://www.morningstar.com.au/s/documents/KiwiSaver-Survey-Q1-2019.pdf)

I have a problem with such reports. They don't tell the net after mgt / admin fees % returns and also don't tell the 'cumulative' returns for those funds ; especially since inception. Again I will wave the Warren Buffet flag. These funds will not beat the index return in the long long term because like at the casino, the odds are against them. Those that do beat the odds are just lucky in the short term.

[mfd]

I have a problem with such reports. They don't tell the net after mgt / admin fees % returns and also don't tell the 'cumulative' returns for those funds ; especially since inception. Again I will wave the Warren Buffet flag. These funds will not beat the index return in the long long term because like at the casino, the odds are against them. Those that do beat the odds are just lucky in the short term.

The total returns are after fees and before tax, so the fees are accounted for. I largely agree with your active/passive stance, but do be aware that at least some of the options presented are in fact passive funds, such as simplicity who I have my kiwi saver with. I expect to match the index minus the 0.3% fees, which is low in an NZ context but I admit still high internationally. Hopefully fees will continue to fall with increasing scale.

[p2r]

https://mindfulmoney.nz/ is a new tool looking to cover ethical investment but also returns

[Joshuatree]

Simplicity also offering lower interest home loans

"To celebrate, we're now offering first home loans charging just 2.95% interest.

How can we do it? It's simple.

Currently, all our KiwiSaver and Investment funds have some investments in bank deposits.

The banks then lend those deposits as home loans, making huge profits.

By offering first home loans directly to our members, we're cutting out the middleman.

And because the interest paid to us by borrowers will be higher than bank deposit rates, returns to KiwiSaver and Investment funds should be higher.

And lending directly to our members will make their first homes easier to afford."

[justakiwi]

I switched to Simplicity a few months ago and while it is obviously early days, I am very impressed and very happy with my decision. They are a bunch of down to earth, genuine people who are passionate and dedicated and their communications and customer service are excellent. Their home loan announcement today, is too late for me, but I will be encouraging my adult children to seriously consider switching to Simplicity.

[stoploss]

Simplicity also offering lower interest home loans

"To celebrate, we're now offering first home loans charging just 2.95% interest.

How can we do it? It's simple.

Currently, all our KiwiSaver and Investment funds have some investments in bank deposits.

The banks then lend those deposits as home loans, making huge profits.

By offering first home loans directly to our members, we're cutting out the middleman.

And because the interest paid to us by borrowers will be higher than bank deposit rates, returns to KiwiSaver and Investment funds should be higher.

And lending directly to our members will make their first homes easier to afford."

Be interesting to see how this goes , if there was for some reason a large number of redemptions , could they have to call the mortgage in ?

[justakiwi]

I was wondering that too but from what I can tell I don't think they will be issuing huge numbers of mortgages, at least not initially. They are doing it by ballot - which makes me think they will approve a small number of applications for each ballot.


Be interesting to see how this goes , if there was for some reason a large number of redemptions , could they have to call the mortgage in ?

[Bitcoin]

Also interesting to note that the 2.95% rate will be floating rather than fixed. They mentioned in one of their videos they aim to undercut the lowest fixed rate on offer by at least 20%

If I was looking for my first home i'd definitely be keen to take on this offer!

[stoploss]

Also interesting to note that the 2.95% rate will be floating rather than fixed. They mentioned in one of their videos they aim to undercut the lowest fixed rate on offer by at least 20%

If I was looking for my first home i'd definitely be keen to take on this offer!

Bank of china is offering 3.15 5 fixed for 1 year , so they might have to drop the rates a bit .......

[stoploss]

Latest QTR Kiwisaver reports out .
Juno aka PIE Funds has taken out # 1 in the Growth category ...not bad going in their first year .

https://cdn.morningstar.com.au/mca/s/documents/KiwiSaver-Survey-Q3-2019.pdf

[iceman]

Interesting reading. I swapped from Kiwi Wealth to Simplicity at the start of the year after very poor performance by Kiwi Wealth in the previous 12-18 months. I note from reading this that they continue their poor performance. Seems to have gone downhill after Kiwibank bought out Gareth Morgan

[justakiwi]

Me too. Very happy with Simplicity so far.


Interesting reading. I swapped from Kiwi Wealth to Simplicity at the start of the year after very poor performance by Kiwi Wealth in the previous 12-18 months. I note from reading this that they continue their poor performance. Seems to have gone downhill after Kiwibank bought out Gareth Morgan

[SBQ]

Latest QTR Kiwisaver reports out .
Juno aka PIE Funds has taken out # 1 in the Growth category ...not bad going in their first year .

https://cdn.morningstar.com.au/mca/s/documents/KiwiSaver-Survey-Q3-2019.pdf

What I don't like, the disclaimer:

* Performance numbers supplied directly from the provider rather than calculated independently by Morningstar.

A lot of information missing such as are the returns net of taxation, PIR 28%? FIF? Otherwise the reported returns can only be taken as a 'gross' figure quoted below:

"Average multisector category returns over the September quarter ranged from 2.9% for the Growth category to 2.2% for the Conservative category."

LONG term performance is key and while i'm being repetitive, Warren Buffet pointed out in the past that managed funds do not beat buying the index returns over a long term period. He won a wagered bet that they could not beat the S&P500 index. What i'm seeing in NZ is more $ is wasted on managed funds, administration fees, etc. via 'salesmanship' than actual returns to investors. I'm not seeing transparency in any of these NZ based fund when compared to say buying real estate in NZ. One thing is certain though, that $60B in Kiwi Savers invested gives IRD the ticket to tax all these funds (while the FMA basically locks out NZ retail investors out by directly buying ie an S&P500 Vanguard ETF through a US broker.

[SBQ]

Adding to my last post, the last paragraph in the survey says it all:

"Investors may notice differences between the returns published in this survey and those they see elsewhere. There are several possible reasons for this. First, the returns published here are after fees but before tax. Second, we take the associated tax
credit into consideration when calculating and publishing these returns, while some fund managers base their published performance figures on month-end unit prices only. "

[mshierlaw]

What I don't like, the disclaimer:


Warren Buffet pointed out in the past that managed funds do not beat buying the index returns over a long term period. He won a wagered bet that they could not beat the S&P500 index. What i'm seeing in NZ is more $ is wasted on managed funds, administration fees, etc. via 'salesmanship' than actual returns to investors.

YEP

Numerous people agree with this. Great you tube presentation from "Cramer" from mad money on the same subject.

Swapped last month from Kiwi Wealth to Simplicity. In the past GMI held a significant portion of Vanguard ETF, but this has now disapeared as has the leading performance of this fund, now struggling to hit thier own published benchmark.

Wish I could buy the ETF directly.

[blackcap]

YEP

Numerous people agree with this. Great you tube presentation from "Cramer" from mad money on the same subject.

Swapped last month from Kiwi Wealth to Simplicity. In the past GMI held a significant portion of Vanguard ETF, but this has now disapeared as has the leading performance of this fund, now struggling to hit thier own published benchmark.

Wish I could buy the ETF directly.

You can buy the Vanguard ETF's directly on the ASX for what its worth. Not sure if that is what you mean though.

[peat]

Latest QTR Kiwisaver reports out .
Juno aka PIE Funds has taken out # 1 in the Growth category ...not bad going in their first year .

https://cdn.morningstar.com.au/mca/s/documents/KiwiSaver-Survey-Q3-2019.pdf


thanks for the link, otherwise I wouldn't have read it. Re Growth funds, That No 1 fund Juno, is tiny, and new , still got pimples , so irrelevant to me. Simplicity doing well but only 3 years under the belt. Fisher doing well currently but ranking drops over the longer periods. Look at Milford Active !! I knew I should have chosen them but...

I'm with Aon Russell 2045 only doing average for the year but 5th over a 10 year period. Yes their fixed fees are a little high, I know I should care about this but I just cant. Its fixed so becomes less and less a big deal.
I like the option of choosing the year for redemption so you don't have to go from growth to balanced as time passes. That said 2045 is too far out but what I wanted.

[mshierlaw]

You can buy the Vanguard ETF's directly on the ASX for what its worth. Not sure if that is what you mean though.
Thats good to know, many thanks. Some homework for me to do now.

[Crypto Crude]

How's people's kiwisavers doing last few days...?
:cool:
.^sc

[SBQ]

How's people's kiwisavers doing last few days...?
:cool:
.^sc

The more compelling issue is, are those managed fund patient enough to accumulate cash to take advantage of this week's crash? In prior years analysts were critical of Buffet hoarding too much cash in Berkshire - now around $130B. Now the table has turned around so we will see who will win. :cool:

[Crypto Crude]

The more compelling issue is, are those managed fund patient enough to accumulate cash to take advantage of this week's crash? In prior years analysts were critical of Buffet hoarding too much cash in Berkshire - now around $130B. Now the table has turned around so we will see who will win. :cool:

Oh can you fill us in please, what's happening?
Is buffet fully invested?
:cool:
.^sc

[Bjauck]

How's people's kiwisavers doing last few days...?
:cool:
.^sc

I read a few articles at the end of last year trying to get people to put their kiwisaver into high growth finds investing rather than leaving it in conservative default funds. It is time to read the disclaimer post scripts now.

[Sideshow Bob]

I read a few articles at the end of last year trying to get people to put their kiwisaver into high growth finds investing rather than leaving it in conservative default funds. It is time to read the disclaimer post scripts now.

Moved into conservative 4-5 months ago. Down little under 3% to date. Growth funds down 13%+.

No doubt values are supported by current FX rates and weakness in the NZD.

[SBQ]

Oh can you fill us in please, what's happening?
Is buffet fully invested?
:cool:
.^sc

Buffet is always secret on his purchases and acquisitions. The question I want to know is which Kiwi Saver funds had the patience to ACCUMULATE CASH to invest in this share market crash we're seeing now??? You will find out that's not how they operate. Your weekly pay a wee portion is deducted to Kiwi Saver and those funds directly buy the market. They don't operate how Buffet would do and they certainly can't broker deals in times of crisis. But they do know how to sell on you with their fancy investment prospectus. Have a look at Berkshire Hathaway's annual report... printing on plain paper. no fancy pictures, just words in black and white and the hard truth and the bad truth.

But the biggest loss with Kiwi Saver I would say is the NZD / USD exchange rate exposure (and that's if investors choose to invest abroad). This crash we're seeing now i'm quite certain a lot of NZ companies will go bust and will never come back. Some will take the NZ bail out $ and disappear. Always put things in perspective. NZ gov't today giving a $900 Million bail out to AirNZ. Work those figures out, for a population of 4.5M people... the NZ forestry industry has their hand out.. Fontera would be soon, the list goes on. NZ gov't simply does not have the fiscal funding like larger economies such as the USA.

[GTM 3442]

"This crash we're seeing now i'm quite certain a lot of NZ companies will go bust and will never come back"

The NZX website tells me that there are 181 instruments on the main board, 136 of them equities. Anybody game to make a guess on how many there'll be in a year?

[SBQ]

"This crash we're seeing now i'm quite certain a lot of NZ companies will go bust and will never come back"

The NZX website tells me that there are 181 instruments on the main board, 136 of them equities. Anybody game to make a guess on how many there'll be in a year?

The NZ Gov't says they "can't bail everyone out" so the more educated guess on who will still be around will depend on 'which ones' the NZ gov't will fund them.

Remember NZ is a 2 trick nation. 1) Natural resource extraction ie (agriculture, forestry, etc.) and 2) Tourism. If neither will come back next year, then we must ask, how much $ can the NZ gov't keep funding things? No wonder globally there's been a flee to the USD.

[Lego_Man]

This quarter will separate the wheat from the chaff.

[SBQ]

This quarter will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Won't matter because nothing has changed. The whole Kiwi Saver is a money making scheme for the gov't and for the managers that charge their fees.

The more compelling issue is how much will the NZ gov't put out to save businesses in NZ? When your neighbours around are losing their job and mortgages start going into default.. then we will see what's left.

[iceman]

Maybe not for this tread but I find this worrying. If Government is going to free up early access to withdrawals from Kiwisaver will Government contributions also be returned or paid back ? Where will this leave the integrity of the scheme ?

[justakiwi]

My understanding is that if the request is for general, everyday hardship, there will be a limit and it will be paid out as a weekly amount only to help with basic costs. If the request is for something else eg: funeral costs, health related, the rules will be different.


Maybe not for this tread but I find this worrying. If Government is going to free up early access to withdrawals from Kiwisaver will Government contributions also be returned or paid back ? Where will this leave the integrity of the scheme ?

[SBQ]

Maybe not for this tread but I find this worrying. If Government is going to free up early access to withdrawals from Kiwisaver will Government contributions also be returned or paid back ? Where will this leave the integrity of the scheme ?

You mean to allow the working class to cash into their Kiwi Saver without penalty? Could not pick a worse time to liquidate holdings so I don't think that's a wise choice. IMO, I find the whole Kiwi Saver scheme adequate to meet people's retirement savings. 3% minimum matching by employers to employees? We're talking really small sums here. Then we have the is NZ Superannuation problem of underfunding (well depending on which view). My fear is the NZ won't be able to fund everything (as we've seen with extra pay over gov't services strikes, doctors / nurses, IRD, teachers, list goes on. So if you take the ultra long multidecade view, my concern is the NZ gov't will look to more aggressive means of bringing in more taxation to meet such inefficiencies in gov't social programs. When I 1st arrived to NZ, GST was 10%, then to 12.5%, then to 15%. Entitlements will erode, and the slow gradual erosion of our standard of living as we see the NZD currency get weaker in the coming decades.

[iceman]

My understanding is that if the request is for general, everyday hardship, there will be a limit and it will be paid out as a weekly amount only to help with basic costs. If the request is for something else eg: funeral costs, health related, the rules will be different.

Yes that's what I mean. We have a reasonable social system that deals with hardship and low income. I don't think Kiwisaver should be used for this full stop.

[Valuegrowth]

Anybody any experience with CRAIGS. Are there any other Kiwisaver providers which allow us to pick companies (to create portfolio)? Thanks.

https://craigsip.com/personal-wealth/craigs-kiwisaver/investment-options
CRAIGS KIWISAVER SCHEME INVESTMENT OPTIONS
Create your own investment portfolio to suit your individual needs.