Snakk

[glasszon]

If finance theory is correct, then SNK should fall by 26% then... so at the current price of 15c, SNK's share price should fall to ~11c, below the SPP price of 12c.

Thank goodness finance theory is crap.

You forgot the fact SNK receive money for the shares issued through SPP, so based on purely mathematics you would expect it to drop something like 5%.

Your calculation would have been correct though had they done a stock split or pure stock dividend.

[CJ]

Thank goodness finance theory is crap.NO - just your maths as pointed out by Blah

[blah]

You forgot the fact SNK receive money for the shares issued through SPP, so based on purely mathematics you would expect it to drop something like 5%.

Your calculation would have been correct though had they done a stock split or pure stock dividend.

You're right too - simple oversight on my part.

[CJ]

NOt an investor but a concern with them receiving so much cash is the risk they are lazy. They thought they only needed $2m so now they have an extra $4.5m. Will they use that to empire build, grow faster, delay future capital raisings.

Blah - didn't mean to sound harsh - should have put a smiley ;)

[CJ]

They did say $2M was a minimum target and that they had the right to accept any and all cash above that number.Accept that. I said it was a concern and it should be up to shareholders/directors to keep them on track. I note that they opened a NZ office that wasn't in the plan but they obviously thought they could afford it as they saw the applications flow in the door. Look for sales growing faster than costs (compare DIL to XRO - though having said that compare the share growth)


Acquisitions surely?I came back to post that but you beat me to it.

[Toasty]

Probably get Rakon quite cheap...

[blah]

Sorry I've never handled $4.5 million of money before - but what could that buy exactly?

[ari]

Sorry I've never handled $4.5 million of money before - but what could that buy exactly? Probably one of these....must be some 2nd hand ones around for NZ$4.5...Richard would be impressed!
http://mashable.com/2012/11/03/hondajet/

[etrader]

I don't think given VML cap value at $12 mill that they would even be on their radar for a T/O although there is some common shareholders and till recently directors as well.

My guess will be small private companies to can bolt onto SNK would be best use of funds.

I didn't buy in the share placement but am happy with my original purchase @ .12c.

[ari]

Shares are up on Computershare

[chad321]

I bought in today at 14.8 cents. Any picks on how far down it will go on Monday and the days to follow. Or will the share price dip at all?

[glasszon]

My pick: It should go down somewhat, then maybe rebound back to 15c after the short-term sellers from the SPP is gone.

[chad321]

more likely to go down 1 cent? 2 cents? Feeling like I jumped the gun for 14.8 cents. hopefully more people feel like keeping the shares will be more valuable to them than a quick sell. But I would understand the temptation. Easy money, and a sure thing.

[Slowlearna]

I am hoping for a drop of 1.5 cents and then i might become a small parcel owner.

[etrader]

I purchased the last sale on day two before I bounced - I did not have the funds to buy into the capital raising however was happy to see the funds raised.

[steve fleming]

Is there potential mis- pricing here?

SNK on NZX has a post cap-raising EV of $30m, annualised revenues of $6m and is making losses/is a start up - (all numbers NZD)

MBE on ASX has an EV of $6m, revenues of $13m, is EBITDA positive and has no start up risk - (all numbers AUD)

MBE describe themselves as "Australia and New Zealand’s leading premium mobile sales agency" - is this what SNK is trying to achieve?

[blah]

I am not all too familiar with MBE, but from what I can see from their Feb half-yearly reports and accounts, their growth trajectory seems quite different. In the FY2012, Snakk's revenues increased from $559,000 to $1,993,000 (250%) compared to HY2012 of 17% for MBE. Arguably Snakk is achieving that on a low base though. Edison believes Snakk's revenues will be growing to the magnitude of 40-80% for the next couple of years. Edison reckons Snakk will achieve 10m in revenue in 2015. I think this may be one of the reasons for the higher relative price of Snakk.

An interesting thing I noted in MBE's half yearly was that although revenue increased 16.5% on the corresponding period, their cost of sales increased disproportionately by 82%. I do see Snakk's cost of sales also increases disportionately with revenue growth. but not nearly to the extent of MBE. Currently, Mobile Embrace's revenue does seem to be more cost efficient than Snakk though - but with the trajectories of cost of sales vs revenue continue at their current rates, then Snakk does appear a better investment from this alone. I'll dig deeper into MBE as the comparison with Snakk does seem to be very interesting.

And also as moosie said, Snakk has relatively good public exposure. The fact that Handley has connections with Richard Branson is probably a big plus. Public exposure is probably the main thing an advertising company wants, given that is the very nature of their business.

[steve fleming]

Very good point Steve. As I said earlier, they don't have nearly the exposure that we talked about with SNK and they lack a Derek Handley-type figure. The stock is also illiquid when compared to SNK. SNK is always going to command a premium compared to MBE due to this constant media exposure and "young upstart company" profile. In addition, it appears Kiwi's are very keen to help other Kiwi's out when it comes to building a multinational tech company. We have very few of them and they are usually quite well received as we saw yesterday with a quadrupling of the SPP minimum raising and resultant scaling. ;)

I think with the mobile advertising sector forecast to grow at 30% plus per year over the next five years, there will be plenty of opportunities in the market for both companies (and other sector participants) to grow.

Personally, I think there is better leverage to this growth (and particularly on a risk adjusted basis) from a company that is valued at $6 million and is already EBITDA positive, than a company valued at $30m and that is only forecast to achieve revenues of $10m in 2 years time.

But agree, fundamentals are just one part of the investment equation, and there are many other factors that impact supply/demand!

[etrader]

Guys I want to be upfront I'm no I.T geek or really get technology however I enjoy investing into growth stocks with a leader that has proven experience.

My questions to you guys are:

Does this stock have an easy barrier to entry for the large media companies to set up and earn revenue to their stable of advertising sources ?

Would what they are doing attract in the future a major player ie google who can leverage the I.P they've built and take it larger.

Thanks in advance would appreciate feedback.

[winner69]

Anybody read his book yet?

[SCOTTY]

By my calculations there are now some 260.8m shares on issue (206.630m + 54.166m - after $6.5m raised @ 12c). At the closing price of 15c, SNK has a capitalisation of some $39m. I'm not sure if there are any options issued, I think there are some issued to staff. Does anyone know how many shares would be on issue if all options were exercised?

[winner69]

moose - a challenge for you ..... get an extract of the whole book and post that

[CJ]

The scaling wasn't big enough for people to warrant topping up. I predict selling pressure as those that bought with intention of quick sale lose out. If they had only taken $3m, then it would be different with a more even balance between those that got heavily scaled and those selling out.

[Blendy]

hmmm, ASB Securities still wont let me place an order on this.

[CJ]

There's still $1.5M looking for a home out there though...But how much did you miss out on? Is it worth paying brokerage for $1k. If you want to top up above that, then it would make sense but that is putting alot of money into a start up (unless your portfolio is huge)


hmmm, ASB Securities still wont let me place an order on this.ASB doesn't play well with the NZAX. I think you have to do via phone.

[777]

Yeah I can't get on Computershare, lost my FIN alooooooonnnnnnggggggg time ago. Always been relying on DB to be up to date. Need to get onto that...

DB is up to date with the on-market stuff.

How would you sell your any shares if you don't know your FIN?

[whatsup]

seems like lots of sellers come out of the woodwork after opening bell, I guess it is expected after a SPP?

As expected but good buying opportunity to top up re the SPP scaling, "in every cloud theres a silver lining "!

[ari]

Bids trying hard to pull down, but no desperate sellers at this early stage.
Still only showing Market cap. $29m on Direct site, be nice to see exactly how many new shares and work out my % .000000000etc

[CJ]

Holding up well

[glasszon]

On a related note: How do company usually refund the money from scaling? Do you receive a cheque by mail or direct deposit back into your account?

Should have followed moose and ticked the 15k box, now I regret not getting enough :p

[ari]

If Computershare have Bank details it will come direct to nominated a/c otherwise snail mail.

[whatsup]

On a related note: How do company usually refund the money from scaling? Do you receive a cheque by mail or direct deposit back into your account?

Should have followed moose and ticked the 15k box, now I regret not getting enough :p

REfund by cheque next week mean while there will be goods opportunity to buy this week as the disolugioned will sell out, IMHO it could test sub SPP.!

[boofters]

turnover is rats and mice, most holders are holding

[blah]

I like how the announcement says the Snakk SPP closed on the 21 May 3013 - 1000 years into the future.

[chad321]

Looking steady at 13.5 for now. Maybe that is the half way point between the 15 cent close of Friday and the 12 cent purchase through the SPP that the quick sellers were looking for? It might now be a matter of is there more profit to gain from selling at this point or waiting for it to drift back up again. I would assume the people who were after the quick profit would have got in as soon as possible to make the most profit.

Is this the turning point or will it dip further tomorrow?

[SCOTTY]

Shares issued = 19% of original total.

Have a good day :)


SNK
27/05/2013 12:19
ALLOT

REL: 1219 HRS Snakk Media Limited

ALLOT: SNK: ISSUE OF SECURITIES BY SNAKK MEDIA LIMITED

SNAKK MEDIA LIMITED

27 May 2013

NZX Limited
Wellington

ISSUE OF SECURITIES BY SNAKK MEDIA LIMITED

Snakk Media Limited ("SNK") advises that it has issued new ordinary shares as
follows:

Class of Security: Ordinary Shares (SNK).

ISIN: NZSNKE0001S9.

Number issued: 48,198,905.

Payment: 48,198,905 of the new shares have been issued at an issue price of
12 cents per share in term of the SNK share purchase plan that closed on 21
May 2013.

Percentage of total Class
of Securities issued: 18.91% (of the total number of ordinary shares on issue
post completion of the issue).

Reason for the issue: New issue of ordinary shares having closed the SNK
share purchase plan on 21 May 3013 and allocation of shares per the terms and
conditions of the share purchase plan.

Authority of issue: Director's Resolution and NZAX Listing Rules 7.3.4.

Terms of issue: The new shares are credited as fully paid, and rank in all
respects equally with the shares already on issue.

Total number of securities
of the Class in existence
after the issue: 254,829,029 ordinary shares.

Date of issue: 24 May 2013

SNAKK MEDIA LIMITED

Director
End CA:00236674 For:SNK Type:ALLOT Time:2013-05-27 12:19:01

Hard to understand the maths here:
Their announcement on Fri. said that they had received over $7.5m and scaled this back to $6.5m @ 12cps. $6.5m divided by 12c = 54,166,666 shares. So what happened to the other 5,967,761 shares?

[Tony Two Gloves]

Wasn't there a private placement of $600K that they accepted?

[Blue Horseshoe]

Wasn't there a private placement of $600K that they accepted?

5.9 million spp and 600K in private placement, Which they have not allocated yet?.

[Tony Two Gloves]

$5,900,000 / .12 = 49,166,666 new shares - near enough for me!

[Blue Horseshoe]

Sounds like a job at Snakk might be right up Rob Fyfe's alley, ?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8719208/Rob-Fyfe-in-no-hurry-to-make-plans

[glasszon]

Also interesting to see from the recent SSH's that none of the substantial shareholders bought into the company again. Although they really don't need to!

Does it really mean much though? At most they will get is 15k worth of shares, out of such a large holding it won't make any material difference.

[SCOTTY]

Wasn't there a private placement of $600K that they accepted?

Thanks Tony. That makes sense. When these shares are allocated, total shares on issue will be 260.8m. For capitalisation calculations, these should be included now as they have been included in the $6.5m capital raising IMO. :)

Cheers

[see weed]

hey moosie.. lets all sit down and have a nice cup of tea. just spent about 1 hr on and off the phone to asb. ordering waiting amending and then buying some more snakk. normally takes about 30 seconds on the web site, i would'nt want to do that to often. but am getting closer to the MOOSIE...SNAKK club... YE haaaa

[croesus]

Not meaning to rain on your parade, nor am I wanting a Tirade of abuse from Snakk owners...but I am picking I will get my fill at 9c ... in a couple of months.

chin chin

[GRIFFIN]

If they go to 9c i will be buying them by the truck load we couldn't be that lucky could we.

[glasszon]

lol, the trucks will be backed up long before 9 cents mate. Your bid could be waiting at that level for eternity. Might as well buy some other stock on your watchlist and put the money to use.

There are no bids that I can see at 9 cents anyways on my bid/ask view. Not very keen then are you?

I never really understood the point of those very low bids, you either tie up the money that can be used for other purposes. If you do end up getting the share it could be because of a very negative announcement and you left wondering whether you actually want them.

[CJ]

I see them as hail mary's. Hail mary's yes but they will only be hit if bad news is announced in which case your hail mary is probably just a fair bid.

[croesus]

No point in putting a bid in at 9c .. now Moose, that would be dumb... Thought you were smarter then that.
Had one good roll in the hay with Snakk in the first couple of days of trading... happy to bide my time.... for my 9c. ( no bid doesn't mean I am not keen..)
chin chin

[skid]

I think he is saying that although he is going to wait in the hopes of getting in a 9cents,hes not going to tie up his money at this stage by putting in a bid,[as some were suggesting ]because that would be dumb in his opinion. No harm done

[croesus]

Thanks Skid. my reply came out reading more abrasive then I meant, no disrespect intended Moosie...
cheers.

[Blendy]

yay guys, I'm in at last :)

[see weed]

time to sit down and have another nice cup of tea. i will also probably buy more at 12,11,10 or 9c , anything to get into the SNAKKITY..MOOSE CLUB

[ari]

I notice Direct Broking finally have new details listed ie.254,829,029 total issue which makes Snakk a $35m company @13.8

[robbo24]

Hi moosie - I'm down with the SNAKK

[robbo24]

As long as we use a robust method of smartphone advertising, I'm in.

[gv1]

Aha, well then what do you think are the forcasts?

[gv1]

You should be doing some research, but I'll give you a hint.

Double ;)

Thanks Moosie.

Google captured more than half of US mobile ad revenues in 2011
NEW YORK (January 25, 2012)—The US mobile advertising market is growing far faster than expected, driven by the rapid ascension of Google’s mobile search advertising business, advertisers’ growing attraction to display inventory on tablet and smartphone devices, and the growing roster of mobile ad networks such as Google’s AdMob, Apple’s iAd, and Millennial Media.
eMarketer estimates mobile advertising spending in the US reached $1.45 billion in 2011, up 89% from $769.6 million in 2010. This year, US mobile ad spending will grow 80% to $2.61 billion. Despite rapid growth, however, mobile advertising accounted for less than 1% of total ad spending in the US in 2011, according to eMarketer.

Read more at http://www.emarketer.com/newsroom/index.php/forecast-mobile-ad-spending-soars-expectations/#UufxrXTVytq4hOFR.99

Disappointing to get my $2250 cheq.

[chad321]

Just jumped to 15 cents.

[ari]

Just been out for an hour too, went to bank my $2250 (bugger). My last foray into tech stocks was IT Capital.....weeee bit of a difference.
Not too long and everyone will be yelling 'It's SNAKK time'.....

[ari]

I did load my Bank details hoping for it to come sooner, but I may have missed the cut-off time. Be interested to hear if anyone did get paid by DC.

[robbo24]

Just been out for an hour too, went to bank my $2250 (bugger). My last foray into tech stocks was IT Capital.....weeee bit of a difference.
Not too long and everyone will be yelling 'It's SNAKK time'.....

It's SNAKK time!!!!!

[Kiwi]

Anybody for a Snakk?

[ari]

Anybody for a Snakk?
You are on to it Kiwi......I can just see the yellow T-shirts with all these slogans emblazoned across them

[see weed]

same here....... With IT Capital.....that was a few years back. Will bank my cheque tomorrow. might buy some more to get into the Snakkity Snakk Club...It's Snakk time..... ye haaaa

[ari]

Criky, better get my son who is a graphic designer to work!

[robbo24]

Criky, better get my son who is a graphic designer to work!

omg everyone can have their CSN numbers and their forum names on them omg its gonna be so cool

[Minerbarejet]

:)You must all be feeling SNAKKERED after that.

[GRIFFIN]

I thought there would have been a dip in the share price post SPP and a good time to buy in but at this stage not the case. It seems holders can see the potential and are in for the long run.

[hilskin]

Can't wait to get my T Shirt, anyone want to take a guess when the SP will hit .24c
I'm guessing/hoping July - you better start looking into suppliers for T-shirts Moosie.:t_up:

[gv1]

Can't wait to get my T Shirt, anyone want to take a guess when the SP will hit .24c
I'm guessing/hoping July - you better start looking into suppliers for T-shirts Moosie.:t_up:

I see it hitting in 30's. All the best...will be waiting for my T-shirt.

[Slowlearna]

Do you think T-shirts and bad puns are more likely to hurt the SP than help it?

[glasszon]

moose: I will be waiting for your t-shirt! Although I think in the short term the price will be capped at about 15c until a material announcement comes along.

[hilskin]

Do you think T-shirts and bad puns are more likely to hurt the SP than help it?

Surely the thought of getting a free T Shirt will drive the SP up.

[hilskin]

I think it's just a bit of fun between board members who enjoy the companies they invest in ;)

Were you just kidding about the T Shirt:(

[Slowlearna]

Surely the thought of getting a free T Shirt will drive the SP up.

There will probably be lots of buyers before 23c just so they can get there hands on a free T-shirt with the hope of selling it at a profit.

[Minerbarejet]

moose: I will be waiting for your t-shirt! Although I think in the short term the price will be capped at about 15c until a material announcement comes along.
dont think that what the T shirts are made of will affect the share price much:)

[Slowlearna]

lol, only SPP people allowed who can prove it and are on Sharetrader mate ;)

Waiver from SPP Listing Rule?

[hilskin]

dont think that what the T shirts are made of will affect the share price much:)

It would if it was made from Gold thread. gold which was mined by NTL

[robbo24]

Wow, buyers stacking up fast now that they realise that not much is going to be sold for under 15 cents now! Let the good times roll!

I think the share price will stop for a SNAKKEROO for a while then shoot up.

[etrader]

Out of the 58 mill shares issued at .12c would you guys expect only a small amount to profit take quickly? When they listed there was no public pool so a huge amount is tied up in holders of 10 percent plus so if they hold their shares it will help the .15c hold as a base

[Kiwi]

After seeing what DIL and Xero have done, I'm not selling mine either. I'll be in for more soon.

[see weed]

I think that is the general consensus among SPP holders. This MAY be the next XRO or DIL, and most want entry on the ground floor, or at least as close to it as possible.

Moosie, i could not wait...just got another 20 thou...15 mins ago.....now in the Snakkity Moose Club.... Ye haaaa

[glasszon]

Just went below the 14 cents mark, I guess it is the short-term holders wanting to get out before the long weekend?

Edit: Updated from dollar to cents, I blame Friday....

[Blue Horseshoe]

HPF selling again, how come they were not scaled back in the spp?.

[Blue Horseshoe]

HPF still stand to make millions with their remaining holding, probably just needed some lunch money.:D

[whatsup]

Can I get a Hallejulah!!! :t_up:


Snakk 2013 Annual result release date
2:30pm, 31 May 2013 | GENERAL

SNK - Market information

31 May 2013
Snakk 2013 Annual result release

Snakk Group CEO Mark Ryan says the company will release the current unaudited revenue for the year ended March 31 2013 on Tuesday the 4th June 2013.

ENDS
For media enquiries, please contact: Julie Landry, Snakk Media, 021 895 098

For investor enquiries, please email: investors@snakkmedia.com or phone 021 464392

Visit www.snk.co.nz (http://www.snk.co.nz) for investor information

Follow Snakk for investor and market updates on www.twitter.com/snakkir (http://www.twitter.com/snakkir)

About Snakk Media Limited
Snakk enables brands to reach their consumers on smartphones and tablets, delivering engaging ads across a network of mobile websites, applications, and games in a way that is highly targeted, measurable and scalable. The company's expertise and portfolio of technology aggregates a publisher's supply of ad space and matches it with an advertiser's demand.

Snakk generates revenue every time an ad uses its networks to appear on the sites, games and social networks of a tablet or smartphone. Revenue comes from both the advertiser paying to use the ad space and the publishers serving the ad to its audiences.

Snakk is deeply committed to building a purpose-driven business that balances commercial outcomes with a higher social purpose.


Is this why there is some weakness today, do we have a leaking ship ?

[glasszon]

If you don't mind me playing devil's advocate, it does look odd to see a major shareholder selling out just before the annual result release.

[Crow]

If you don't mind me playing devil's advocate, it does look odd to see a major shareholder selling out just before the annual result release.

Just hoping that it's just coincidence :confused: Either way Devil's advocate or not it's still odd.

[etrader]

Snakk trustees limited who is also connected with VMOB is down to just over 7%, sold 3.3 mill shares, I see this as very healthy for the free float of Snakk.

Patients on this one guys, I remember DIL was a dog and in the penny dreadfull's now try to buy in.

[kizame]

I am finally a Snakk club member,joined yesterday and enhanced my membership today.pretty content and look forward to the future.

[etrader]

Welcome kizame good buying at those levels.

[kizame]

Thank you i was thinking it was pretty good buying,not too far from the 12c spp.
Smartphones are the future,huge potential there.
I check the days stock prices with a very good nz app.With advertising banners that scroll along the bottom,every time I check i wonder who sells those adds.They change frequently so how many bites of the cherry are they getting.

[etrader]

Kizame what is the App you use to check those stocks ?

I literally had no spare cash for the SPP but a happy investor that got in @ .12c on day two.

[kizame]

Kizame what is the App you use to check those stocks ?

I literally had no spare cash for the SPP but a happy investor that got in @ .12c on day two.
It's called NZ Stocks and you can get it for free on google play,just search and there are lots of options but that is the only nz one I could find.

[glasszon]

Kizame what is the App you use to check those stocks ?

I literally had no spare cash for the SPP but a happy investor that got in @ .12c on day two.

Are we looking at the same stock? I was watching very carefully on SNK and I don't think it ever dropped to 12 cents after the SPP.

[etrader]

Glasson I mean day two when they first listed got the last trade of the day at the lowest it has got to.

[ari]

Great way to keep up to date if you are not already signed on....
facebook snakkmedia

[steve fleming]

I posted this on the MBE thread but is pretty relevant to Snakk as well


http://www.bandt.com.au/news/digital...e-first-screen (http://www.bandt.com.au/news/digital/angry-birds-a-lesson-in-mobile-as-the-first-screen)

Angry Birds a lesson in mobile as the "first screen" 29 May, 2013


"As part of this mantra Rovio now enables brands to embed their logos and messages within Angry Birds games as part of the animated sets and characters’ activities.

Creation of these sorts of brand engagement opportunities will be a core part of Rovio’s new partnership (http://www.bandt.com.au/news/digital/angry-birds-opens-to-aussie-advertisers) with mobile advertising network, Mobile Embrace, announced in early May.

According to Pete Birch, MD of fourth screen advertising at Mobile Embrace, Australian advertisers are playing a game of catch up with increasingly mobilized Australian consumers.
“Ad spend hasn’t caught up yet with consumer behaviour,” said Birch.
“In this market I would estimate only 5%-10% of the total digital spend is going into mobile, but you’ve got consumers spending 30% - 40% of their time using mobile to access the internet.
“This puts down a challenge to agencies and clients and advertisers. They are not moving fast enough to mobilise their content to get their ads in front of an audience which is increasingly mobile.”

[Snow Leopard]

Snakk 2013 Annual result release date
2:30pm, 31 May 2013 | GENERAL

SNK - Market information

31 May 2013
Snakk 2013 Annual result release

Snakk Group CEO Mark Ryan says the company will release the current unaudited revenue for the year ended March 31 2013 on Tuesday the 4th June 2013.

ENDS

Never good when a company is late with the financials.
Have they got an exemption?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[etrader]

Is their an exemption due to the fact they were only listed for a few weeks prior to year end ?

anyway we await Tuesday news - are we thinking annual growth of 150% over last year folks.

[ari]

Via Snakk facebook
This week in our Australian mobile news roundup we see that social media access via tablets has doubled and mobile ad spending tripled. We review the differences between how Aussie men and women use their smartphones, check out the new ABS Mobile Game that lets your run your own town and hear why Google is urging Aussie retailers to go mobile ASAP.
http://www.hapticgeneration.com.au/this-week-in-australian-mobile-may-27/

[etrader]

I would be surprised if they did 6 million or 200 percent growth but I would love to be wrong.

[Snow Leopard]

Snakk 2013 Annual result release date
2:30pm, 31 May 2013 | GENERAL

SNK - Market information

31 May 2013
Snakk 2013 Annual result release

Snakk Group CEO Mark Ryan says the company will release the current unaudited revenue for the year ended March 31 2013 on Tuesday the 4th June 2013.

ENDS

Never good when a company is late with the financials.
Have they got an exemption?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Forgot the were NZAX listed :blush: so they get 75 days (June 14th) to come up with the preliminary report.
Everybody rest easy again!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[etrader]

Can someone help me get my head around their sales in the annual report is shows income of approx 1.99 mill then direct media cost which were 44 percent of sales - can someone explain would the advertiser pay snakk who pays the media company ? The preciou period direct media costs were 32 percent

[biker]

Why didn't Snakk take all the funds that were offered in the SPP?

[ari]

Why didn't Snakk take all the funds that were offered in the SPP?
In my opinion, I don't think it would have been a good look, I think Handley is too smart for that.

[biker]

Wont he need it eventually? Why not just bank it until he does?

[etrader]

Just reading the quartily report again for the period ending December am I reading right that quarter along was 1.43 mill ? Meaning they took off late last year so achieving $5 mill year end could be viable

earlier this month, is announcing record-breaking revenues for the October to
December 2012 quarter, with unaudited revenues increasing 210% year-on-year
from $NZ686,000 to $NZ1.439 million. Revenue for the entire year to March
2012 was $NZ1.99m.

[CJ]

Why didn't Snakk take all the funds that were offered in the SPP?
I'm a bit confused too. They took more than 3x what they originally skied for but decided an extra $1m was too much.

Having said that I do understand why they scaled it.

[etrader]

The next funding round will be at a much higher level than .12c so the raising will be less dilutive in order to obtain similar levels of funding.

Agree Derek was smart scaling it back showing a lack of greed yet knowing their targets, he will know the cash burn for funds before they turn a profit and reinvest funds in more growth. I would be disappointed if they turned a profit in two years and started paying a dividend.

[biker]

The next funding round will be at a much higher level than .12c so the raising will be less dilutive in order to obtain similar levels of funding

Thanks etrader, that makes good sense. Why take more than you need now when you can get what you need later, for less.

[ari]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10887984

[NZSilver]

Interesting info on a similar company in Aussie - mobile embrace ltd MBE.ASX. It is present in NZ and AUS. http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9189-Mobile-Embrace-Limited-(-quot-MBE-quot-)
I'm pretty unfamiliar with this industry but I feel there is real potential, but always huge risk in these fledgling companies. However, worth throwing a few dollers at them.

[boofters]

MBE may look cheap but 16.5% revenue growth YOY does not look like close to a par result, with the growth in spend this company is losing share. Lets compare SNK revenue growth, today's the day?

[boofters]

just out ...with revenues from March 2012 to March 2013 increasing 83% year-on-year from $1,992,958 to $3,654,346....

Not to shabby

[etrader]

Turmeric happy with 3.6 was just hard to put a forecast given one large quarter but still very good growth. It's to be expected a company of a low base can achieve massive percentage gains quarter on quarter but that slows down and I guess 50 -80 percent is possible for the next year. A happy holder all round.

[ari]

And all this pre SPP.......
http://dsd32.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/snakk1.jpg

[artemis9]

Seems the market is happy too, although to be honest I don't see why, maybe a reaction to a bit more exposure? I would have thought this result is if anything below expectations given we already knew results for the first 3Qs and Q4 is quite a bit lower than Q3. Could trend the otherway after the initial exposure but who knows...onwards and upwards maybe?


The advertising industry is cyclical so Q3 is always going to be significantly bigger than Q4.

[artemis9]

I wondered that, wasn't sure by how much though. SNK financials will be quite volatile in these early stages, but is a 32% drop in line with what one would expect due to seasonality?

It's not unusual given the huge spend in the lead up to Xmas leaving media budgets pretty light at the start of the year.

[Snow Leopard]

Just revenue and some words.

What were the expenses?
How much money did you lose?

Unimpressed
Paper Tiger

[croesus]

Not wanting to rain on Moosies parade, but even more confident, after this announcement I will have the option of paying 9 c.

[croesus]

It will be year not years... your young moose and too full of optimism and joy de vive... not saying Snakk is going to fall over, just saying there will be some huge swings.. imho

[boofters]

geez Moosie you seem to be comparing NZX with more liquid markets. I cannot believe NZX participants are relative trading in any worthwhile volumes, happy to dicuss..

[CJ]

An alternative (devils advoate view):
"With previous year’s revenues increasing by 83%, Snakk has thus far out-paced 2012 analyst predictions stating that advertising spend on mobile devices in Australia are forecast to grow by 46% year-on-year over the next five years." (So, almost double the market growth forecasted by analysts in the know!)Your comparing a one year number to a 5 year average.


"The lift in revenue coincides with Snakk being named a Certified B Corporation (B Corp), one of the first publicly listed companies in the world to meet the rigorous social and environmental performance standards set out by the internationally recognised non-profit, B Lab." (Continuing Handley's ethical stance.)So the CEO of B Corp (Handley) gave the CEO of Snakk (Handley) an award. And even if the award does mean something, how does it relate to growth/revenue/profit.


“With the funds raised from the SPP, we are now in an excellent position to look at opportunities and potential acquisitions that will allow us to scale the business beyond the start-up phase and grab a larger share of the exploding mobile advertising market.” (Murders and executions? Not likely Patrick Bateman, more like friendly mergers and acquisitions!)So you invested in Snakk but they want to invest in another company, not themselves - what a show of confidence.


"Snakk’s growth strategy is focused on increasing its Australian and New Zealand market share and THEN expanding geographically into Asia, where analysts predict mobile will play a leading role in efforts to engage consumers, whose first digital experiences will be with mobile devices." (So, Ozzie and NZ dominance first as a base, then expansion. Sounds like a play out of the XRO playbook to me!)hmmm, so avoiding the biggest market (US) - again what a show of confidence.

Having said that, I think they will do well. I just haven't done any research to confirm if they are fairly/under/over priced. My risk money is elsewhere.

[CJ]

Fair enough playing devils advocate on that one, there is always two sides to a coin!It will be interesting to see how they do spend the cash they have raised. Acquisitions are fraught with danger but if down well, can add significant value. XRO has done some great bolt on acquisition at very low prices compared to the valued added (not necessarily a revenue perspective but from a sales perspective).

[artemis9]

An alternative (devils advoate view): Your comparing a one year number to a 5 year average.

Snakk are good at doing this and hoping that the average retail investor won't notice.


So the CEO of B Corp (Handley) gave the CEO of Snakk (Handley) an award. And even if the award does mean something, how does it relate to growth/revenue/profit.

Handley is the CEO of the B Team which is not in any way affiliated with B Corp/B Lab and he's the Chairman of Snakk not CEO. But your point about how the B Corp certification benefits shareholders is very valid. I don't think Snakk have attempted to address this yet but it would be a good question to bring up at the AGM.


So you invested in Snakk but they want to invest in another company, not themselves - what a show of confidence.

Acquiring a competitor is not so much an investment but an opportunity to increase market share over and above organic growth. I think this strategy makes perfect sense if you want to continue growing at a faster rate than the industry, particularly one as aggressive as mobile advertising. It also makes sense if the target is extremely undervalued.



hmmm, so avoiding the biggest market (US) - again what a show of confidence.]

The US market is too competitive for a tiny player to enter without substantial capital. Strategy-wise APAC makes much more sense. Better to focus on markets where the US companies are not and have one of them buy you out when they want to enter those regions.

[CJ]

Handley is the CEO of the B Team which is not in any way affiliated with B Corp/B Lab Well fancy that. What are the odds - good spotting. Consider me schoolled.

and he's the Chairman of Snakk not CEO. But that would have made my (incorrect) statement less catchy.


Acquiring a competitor is not so much an investment but an opportunity to increase market share over and above organic growth. I think this strategy makes perfect sense if you want to continue growing at a faster rate than the industry, particularly one as aggressive as mobile advertising. It also makes sense if the target is extremely undervalued.Agree. Putting the devils advocate hat back on, its the timing that is concerning - no sooner do they get cash in the door than they originally asked for and they create a new plan to spend it.


he US market is too competitive for a tiny player to enter without substantial capital. Strategy-wise APAC makes much more sense. Better to focus on markets where the US companies are not and have one of them buy you out when they want to enter those regions.Agree. The risk is that the dominate US competitor will enter the market and use its dominate US brand to eat your lunch, (or should that be Snakk), rather than buy you out but that is what investing is all about.

[easy money]

Nice plug for Snakk media on tonights ONE news.

[Minerbarejet]

yes, caught some of it but being 3/4 deaf missed most of it. Looked good though.:)

[Minerbarejet]

thank you turmeric, your kindness knows no bounds - when it gets down to actual listening mode things get a bit tough around here. Which is why I enjoy this forum.:)

[see weed]

ah crap how did I miss that?!?!

it was on 1 hour later on free view channel 7, so i watched it twice,which gives me double confidence in the Snakk family.

[goldfish]

http://m.tvnz.co.nz/video/nz_news/ref:5456673 here it is, interesting.

[ari]

.13c, bids 12c...looks like we are in for a bit of a thrashing today......not just on SNK alone!

[glasszon]

I have a feeling SLI stole all the spotlight from SNK given the larger size and the share price increases in the last few days. Maybe I can pick up more shares at the SPP price afterall.

[kizame]

I think it's worth remembering that they now have the resources to grow,it must be pretty difficult trying to gain traction,when you are trying to fund it from organic growth so young in a startup fase.

[CJ]

Yep, it's the Rod Drury playbook of debt and shareholder funding that will get this baby rising fast. Just a minor correction. Drury recongnises the risk of high growth which is why he only uses shareholder equity, not debt.

The benefit of not using debt is, should the need arise, you can scale back growth and aim to be cashflow positive. If you have debt, getting cashflow positive can be a lot harder due to rising interest costs. Drury is very mindfull of how much cash he has at any point in time, how long that will last give the anticipated growth in costs and (I hope) how he can scale back quickly should he need to cut costs(in the event it is a bad time to raise more equity).

I assume Handley knows the same which is why I have the slight concern he will waste the cash he does have on an acquisition. An acquisition could be the right move but it can also burn through cash.

[CJ]

Hmmm, good point. However, didn't XRO go about the acquisition of a company awhile back???Yes. they have done a few small acquisitions, one an Australian payroll provider and second an workpapers addon for accountants. There may have been a third.

Both were very small in relation to market value (like around $1m vs $1b market cap) and were acquired so to widen the services provided to make the product more desirable, especially to accounting firms who effectively advertise on Xero behalf.

A small bolt on like that is good.

There are plenty examples of bad acquistions, WHS entry into australia being a prime one - expensive acquisition trying to buy market share in a new market and didn't achieve any synergies.

[see weed]

Wow, someone just got trigger happy! Time to buy more! :t_up:

is that you moosie.....at 13c

[Minerbarejet]

Wow, someone just got trigger happy! Time to buy more! :t_up:
Lets hope they fire the other barrel at .131 :D

[Minerbarejet]

Lets hope they fire the other barrel at .131 :D
gnab - shot down again.

[Minerbarejet]

lol, I am not bidding right now, and I did not buy that 10,000 parcel at 13.7! The market is trying to find its feet for Snakk and there is a decent floor at 13. Sellers from the SPP must be getting thin on the ground now...
would agree that .13 is about ground floor atm. big smiles at .26 then? :):)

[goldfish]

Even bigger smiles at 260 or maybe im just a dreamer, one day maybe?

[Minerbarejet]

Even bigger smiles at 260 or maybe im just a dreamer, one day maybe?
you never know your luck, goldie. could be a tad optimistic though. omg -having spent months talking to a moose now Im talking to a goldfish.

Noah Fence :)

[Minerbarejet]

Next week... maybe ;) no maybe - ding:)

[Snow Leopard]

Looks like we have lost a bit of confidence in Snakk due to down-sellers...
...so you don't cap the SP for months on end as liquidity dries up!

I thought you had become a long-term buy good companies and patiently wait type of deer and, as such, the minutiae of the daily trading were of little concern to you.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[J R Ewing]

On a side note for other floats like SLI, this is why you get your shareholders who want to exit out before you list so you don't cap the SP for months on end as liquidity dries up!

The other question to be asking is why are shareholders selling out? Not because they expect 26c anytime soon!

[lastmoa]

Ah more, good old panicking as the short-term sellers get shaken out of the tree. Looks like the Moose'inator will be chewing up some more shares today!

Be careful about getting too overweight on this stock. From what I see, Snakk hasn't done that much YET to get a good idea, re evaluation. I'm a SNK holder and until I see the story move along a fair bit more I am riding these periods of 'noise' out.
There's a few more good stocks out there in meantime, imho.

[goldfish]

I bought this for long term, i still didnt expect it to drop this much. Im not good with short term volatility.

[see weed]

I bought this for long term, i still didnt expect it to drop this much. Im not good with short term volatility.

don't worry gf , it will be a good time to buy more the lower it goes. i went through this with fpa, air and pgw. might wait a we bit before i buy some more. Did anyone hear Derek Handley's 25 minute interview on radio live bussiness hour yesterday? He was talking about Hyperfactory, Snakk the B company etc. A very good interview.

[ari]

[QUOTE=see weed Did anyone hear Derek Handley's 25 minute interview on radio live bussiness hour yesterday? He was talking about Hyperfactory, Snakk the B company etc. A very good interview.[/QUOTE]
Here's the link for those who missed it...
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Derek-Handley-CEO-at-Snakk-Media/tabid/506/articleID/35936/Default.aspx

[etrader]

I've emailed several times before and had a prompt response they however will be very careful with giving info our that is not disclosed.
I doubled my portfolio with the sell down today only entering .3 of a cent higher than the share offer as funds were not available a few weeks back.

Good questions coming through re what does SNK do better.

I not of their report they a winning in first shoot outs for work in oz against competitors.

[Blendy]

Shall we e-mail Mr Handley and see what he says?
He was at AUT the other day doing a presentation, but somehow this went totally under my radar until the last minute and I couldn't go. It would have been a perfect opportunity to ask all the questions, so I'm a bit annoyed I didn't get to go.

[etrader]

Have seen the bottom today ?

[croesus]

Hope you have clean underware, when you jump of Te Mata peak.

chin chin

[Dentie]

Quiz day!

Can the class tell me what these two patterns (may) mean?

4590

4591

IMHO Moosie... they are telling me looking at the sun is better than looking for worms....

[lastmoa]

I was wondering the same thing - he is also chairman of Boosted - a crowd funding site for the arts in NZ (This is something we may well see indirectly linked with the NZX at some point)

My biggest concern with Derek is his central income source seems to be the public speaking circuit and there is no doubt in my mind that much of what he does has been with the purpose of positioning himself for a very lucrative career in that. Adds to my concern about how much focus he is able give to SNK. In saying that I acknowledge he is extrememly talented, I like his thinking, have heard laregely very good things about him and he is a bloody deidcated and a hard worker. I would prefer to see him dedicating more time to SNK though....
My personal take is I think he is getting a little ahead of himself with all the public speaking, book writing and now this 'professor' role. He has set himself a large challenge with Snakk so would like to see him, as a shareholder, concentrate on growing the story .... I like the space Snakk is in, just have not seen enough from Snakk yet, short of a successful capital raising.

[CJ]

I missed out on a book launch/lunch at Cibo with him because the person I was to get the tickets off messaged me the wrong email. Gutted - was really looking forward to a lunch at Cibo ;)

[glasszon]

It must be a big holder, 15k worth of shares from SPP won't last this long from the continual selldown.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Makes me laugh (or should I say cry), how majority share holders dump shares on market, I know its legal but is it ethically right, can they not off load these off market to an interested party. The same thing happened when under 2% of pgw was dumped last week. Funny how 2% holding can pull down the 98% not selling.
I don't think the dumpers will be B corp certified anytime soon.:(

[Blue Horseshoe]

Yep, I don't think they will be getting a Christmas card from Sea Dragon this year.

[kizame]

Well you are investing in the company and it's prospects,if you think those prospects have weakened then moan,but at the moment I don't care how low the price goes,did you expect mega returns straight away?
well stop bleating about the price going lower,I'm in the same boat,so... give them time,who cares whos selling.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

I know its legal but is it ethically right, can they not off load these off market to an interested party.

They would if there was an interested party.

I must admit that I haven't done much research into SNK yet, but I'm not too bullish on it. It's sitting on a P/S of around 10, which I feel is probably about right. I think you need to be very careful comparing a P/S ratio of a company like SNK with the likes of DIL and XRO. DIL and XRO are SaaS companies, so their margins can be very high and they can become extremely profitable if they stop focusing on exponential growth. They can stop all sales efforts and still have most people renew their subscription the following years. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), SNK is only providing a service, so they do not necessarily have the same ability to suddenly become extremely profitable when desired as their customers aren't paying a fee every year. I'm not sure of the margins, but I suspect that they wont be high enough to justify a high P/S ratio in the future.

I feel most people are buying the man (and the current tech hype), rather the than the company. That being said, it is a serious growth industry so it could do very well!

[Banksie]

A recession in Australia will weigh heavily on SNK. They make money out of a companies marketing budget. If times are tough that is easy to cut. In a recession it is not so easy to cut your spending on the services supplied by XRO and DIL. In fact a recession could be good for them as companies realise cost savings by migrating to their SaaS services. So could this drop in SNK actually be driven by the bad news coming out of Aus?

[Blue Horseshoe]

O com-on, its the only green arrow left in my portfolio, don't take that away.:D

[kizame]

I don't think the any downturn in Aussie will have any material affect on snk,it is a young market,at an early stage,driven by mostly young people that value their phones first,and will spend to maintain that.So any business deciding to cut back on such an effective advertising medium in that sort of climate,where advertising is targeted directly to their sort of customer could be detrimental to their business.

[ari]

O com-on, its the only green arrow left in my portfolio, don't take that away.:D
My portfolio too........still a little leeway, average cost was 11.7 thanks to some freebees from SeaDragon!

[ari]

[QUOTE=turmeric;411443]only investing in Handley and the sector.QUOTE]
I remember the forums running hot with everyone wanting to get on board with Watson Aquaria21), just hope SplitEnz song is correct this time.

[Kiwi]

I remember when I could have bought DIL at 10 cents. Now look at them. I ended up buying at $1
Hang in there and have faith. Handley is no idiot.

[Banksie]

Looks like we are seeing the buyout of a few Kiwi tech businesses as usual. Is Handley planning a takeover like this in the low-millions?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1306/S00318/citrix-systems-pays-45-mln-cash-for-wellingtons-beetil.htm

It is a little disappointing to see the businesses disappear overseas before we get a chance to invest in them.

[False Profit]

Hey Moosie, appears like you're looking for a wee bit more 'over-selling' during today's trading? I've set an optimistic buy at 11c. but who really knows where the price will go.

[Zaphod]

I don't think the any downturn in Aussie will have any material affect on snk,it is a young market,at an early stage,driven by mostly young people that value their phones first,and will spend to maintain that.So any business deciding to cut back on such an effective advertising medium in that sort of climate,where advertising is targeted directly to their sort of customer could be detrimental to their business.

In addition to the potential effectiveness you mentioned above, I think another key advantage here is bang for the buck. Online advertising can cost a fraction of what traditional mediums such as newspapers, television, radio etc. cost.

Overall the effectiveness of the advertising medium relies upon delivering a relevant advertisement that leaves a lasting impression, using the right type of delivery mechanism (e.g. Video, Display Ad, SEM, etc.) targeted to the right audience using advanced targeting algorithms. If Snakk can master this in the face of fierce competition they will be a success, however it would pay to bear in mind that even companies such as Facebook who have a treasure trove of data to mine for targeting purposes, still have issues with advertising relevance. It is an exceptionally difficult skill to master.

[CJ]

It is a little disappointing to see the businesses disappear overseas before we get a chance to invest in them.


I know it's terrible seeing this. If I was a politician I would be expanding the scope (massively) to keep these companies in NZ. We could be a very rich country if we had more of an IT/IS focus for students and specialised in it. We are small and could create a niche market. Unfortunately, Mooses don't stoop to politician level...That just looked like an acqui-hire/market share grab.

It wasn't the sort of business that would be able to list on the NZAX in my opinion.

We have already seen a few IPO - SNK, SLI, (soon WYN and there was another that put its hand up) to add to DIL, XRO and TME so hopefully we will see more.

[Banksie]

In addition to the potential effectiveness you mentioned above, I think another key advantage here is bang for the buck. Online advertising can cost a fraction of what traditional mediums such as newspapers, television, radio etc. cost.

Good point Zaphod - so SNK could benefit from budget tightening as well.

[Minerbarejet]

being a peasant and all could somebody update me as to why my tablet suddenly started advertising sky in video form whilst perusing other matters. a click dumps it. Is this snakk at work or some related being. if so it's VERY annoying. Greetings from Tatooine

[Minerbarejet]

Could probably download a pop-up blocker to stop this. Where is it being advertised? If it isn't a game I'd guess it might be SNK as MBE does not have known contact with Sky...
Are you saying that a popup blocker will stop snakk?

[chad321]

Have been looking into ereaders / tablets recently. Apparently the Kindle Fire HD (which is Amazons baby) has full page ads build into it (lockscreen etc....). The only way to get rid of them is to pay Amazon something like $20. That is some pretty force fed advertising. I would be very interested to hear if anyone had stumbled across an advertisement that could be confirmed as being from Snakks delivery medium.

[Minerbarejet]

They have been saying snakk is all about mobile advertising. What I am trying to find out is it in the annoying popup group or the more benign type such as around this page. Any clues?.
A combination of both perhaps or none of the above.

[chad321]

Maybe if we all team up, we can start clicking on ads delivered by Snakk all day long ;) haha. Get a few extra dollars for Snakk.

[Minerbarejet]

Solitaire seems to attract the ads so it is a game. Thusly it is an app as this is a tablet - that reminds me I have to go and take one. lol

[chad321]

They do targeted advertising. When Moosie goes onto nzherald and an ad for maple syrup comes up, we will know Snakk have made it ;)

[Minerbarejet]

They do targeted advertising. When Moosie goes onto nzherald and an ad for maple syrup comes up, we will know Snakk have made it ;)
the ad or the maple syrup? :)

[chad321]

the ad or the maple syrup?

haha. made it in the advertising delivery game.

[Minerbarejet]

so are you saying they are watching all these posts and taking notes?:eek2:

[Banksie]

Solitaire seems to attract the ads so it is a game. Thusly it is an app as this is a tablet - that reminds me I have to go and take one. lol

I was doing a bit of research on this, because I would be upset if video auto launched on my mobile device, when I stumbled on this article:

Fairfax digs heels into mobile ad revenue with InMobi deal
http://www.idealog.co.nz/blog/2013/05/fairfax-digs-heels-mobile-ad-revenue-inmobi-deal
InMobi list Sky TV as one of their clients.

[Minerbarejet]

Bingo, there ya go major. Thanks guys, much appreciated

[goldfish]

Still no buyers for a while now, wonder if they wont trade anything today, hopefully the person selling 100000 shares a day and keeping price down has run out. Interesting to watch. We need some good news to kickstart this its gone dead.

[goldfish]

Im tempted to buy another 10000 today just to see what happens lol.

[goldfish]

lol, could send the market into a frenzy. Be careful goldfish, FMA will be all over you if you do! :eek2:

Lol. Gotta start that upward trend somehow. Although i doubt that would do it

[Blue Horseshoe]

Wow, just looked at the market for the first time today and had to double check if Snakk was on a trading halt, no. That would be a first, no trades so far today. Spooky.

[jac12]

Well there goes another 100,000 shares bringing the SP down again

[glasszon]

seems like everyone is heading to the exits for all stocks, someone just sold down to 12.1 now, ouch!

[lastmoa]

It's a real shame this is happening - a real dent in confidence for holders but more importantly potential buyers. Hopefuly just a short term thing...

Disc: had a bid in the other day which I recently removed - I suspect it would have been filled on this latest sell down, but alas, I am still on the sidelines.

At least it is holding above the SPP price, which is something MRP didn't do. Expectations can be too high with any IT offering coming on board, with people expecting the next big Xero/Diligent from day one. Let it do what it's got to do and follow the developments as the company grows. Any increase in SP will then get justified, at least.

[goldfish]

Does this kind of thing happen often? One guy doing able to bring price down and scare off buyers etc? I have only been following markets for a couple months.

[goldfish]

So they have 21mil more shares? They could keep doing this for months? Why would they do that?

[goldfish]

Handley should just buy them back. Oh well in it for least a couple years so all this is kind of irrelevant, and its interesting to watch.

[Banksie]

HPF seems to be mostly owned by The Business Bakery, an early investor in the Hyperfactory

http://www.pwc.co.nz/private-business/as-i-see-it-case-studies/grant-baker/

[Crow]

All very infuriating all this selling but everyone has their reasons for investing. Still a holder and I too well be happy when these drip-fed parcels of sales end. :t_down:

[ari]

It's obvious that Handley is good at what he does, but these back room boys are even better. As I've eluded to before, nothing but some creative accounting. Issue shares at 6.5 sell at say 12....I'd be selling too!

[ari]

Should get some lift here today after better economic data from US after 3 day slide.

[chad321]

Should get some lift here today after better economic data from US after 3 day slide.

Also, because I am wearing my lucky socks.

[RTM]

http://seekingalpha.com/currents/post/1083302?source=email_rt_mc_readmore

You all might enjoy snakking on this...

[Banksie]

You'd think so, if someone at HPF can keep their hand off the sell button!

Sorry if I missed this information before...but how do you know HPF are the sellers? Does the DB system show this?

[Banksie]

It's either them or Snakk Trustees, and I suspect Handley would stop selling...

Are Snakk Trustees Handley? The only shareholder listed is Micheal John Sorensen http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3478531/15487962/entityFilingRequirement

[CJ]

Notice that HPF also bought into the SPP. Daytime traders if I ever saw them!HPF are predominately owned by Business Bakery - the Boys who bought you 42 Below, Moa, Ecoya and swooped on Dorchester at the bottom of the GFC. They also backed the original Hyperfactor.

Call them what you like but Daytime traders they are not.

[Slowlearna]

Tell all the buyers not to buy that will stop the sellers selling.

[CJ]

And again they have self-destructed the SP...I have no idea what their plan is but they are traditionally long term (more mid term actually) thinkers, definitely not day traders.

Maybe they are controlling liquidity and ensure the price doesn't get away from itself (ie. they think anything more than 13c is overvalued). Remember they got in cheap and selling above 12c gives them a 100% return in less than a year. If this is their plan, it does raise questions of why they didn't start donig this sooner.

What will be interest is to see if they support the price to ensure it doesn't go below 12c should it get that low.

All in all, I have no idea. It must be annoying for those that what a big pop.

[Slowlearna]

Are you just annoyed because with these shares selling at 12c you will have to give more T-shirts?

[whatsup]

Mr Sorensen has a nice looking house there on Google Streetview. Might go pay him a visit :p

Appears he has a a large stakeholding in VMOB as well. I'm starting to see a picture here...

Wasnt he involved in RIS ?

[Tony Two Gloves]

RIS and also plus SMS - Google him and you will see he does not care about other shareholders or NZX rules - The king of pump and dump strikes again and this time Handley has been doing all the pump (PR) for him!

[whatsup]

RIS and also plus SMS - Google him and you will see he does not care about other shareholders or NZX rules - The king of pump and dump strikes again and this time Handley has been doing all the pump (PR) for him!

So what have these too got incommon, I would thought that Handley wouldnt have needed him with that track record. WHATSUP ?

[Tony Two Gloves]

Good question Whatsup, he had the creds to have his own IPO rather than this reverse listing he opted for and all the baggage associated with it. Presumably he new the histories of his new business partners.....

[whatsup]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2520614/Big-ideas-little-results-The-Plus-SMS-story


Moosie not exactly a bluechip bunch you woulkd say !!

[CJ]

Good question Whatsup, he had the creds to have his own IPO rather than this reverse listing he opted for and all the baggage associated with it. Presumably he new the histories of his new business partners.....The blame falls in part on the NZX as it is a lot cheaper to do a back door listing. SNK was probably too small to make a fresh IPO worthwhile (ie. millions rather than hundreds of thousands)

[Blue Horseshoe]

I guess that was the first and last capital raising by Snakk?. No wonder they took so much. I doubt they will raise much money next time (if they attempt it again) if that's what the substantial share holders are going to do all the time.

[garfy]

This is all too much for this modest investor. I have decided to withdraw my modest investment in SNK - I feel more comfortable having that capital (small) earning 2.? % in my OnCall acct. Happy to let other, bigger, shareholders than me sort out what is happening. Good luck guys!

[Snow Leopard]

Snakk was NOT a back-door listing - it was a compliance listing.

If a shareholder of any size can't buy or sell when they want (provided they don't break the rules) then what's the point of the share market?

Stop complaining and come up with a strategy to deal with and learn from it.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[ari]

Wonder when SeaDragon will start selling? I see there is a John Sorensen sitting on 23m SEA shares through Flinders Holdings.
There had better be some good news comming :-(

[kizame]

Snakk was NOT a back-door listing - it was a compliance listing.

If a shareholder of any size can't buy or sell when they want (provided they don't break the rules) then what's the point of the share market?

Stop complaining and come up with a strategy to deal with and learn from it.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Totally agree PT I am a shareholder and happy to wait until all this shakes out,this was not meant to wisk your funds into the stratosphere straight away anyway,have some faith people.

[Minerbarejet]

Just looking at it from a slightly different angle, - several million shares were purchased at 6 cents and are now being sold at 12 cents. Eventually the well will run dry and there will be no more 6 cent shares available as they will all be in the hands of the people that bought at 12 cents. These people will be unwilling to take a loss on their 12 cents so they wont be selling unless forced to by circumstances unknown at the time of original purchase. This will become the new base so to speak and from that base they will probably be trying to double but probably settle for 18 Eventually it will settle into a range that is appropriate for the circumstances of the business This business, snakk, will have to deliver for any large upgrades in SP
Once again you dont have a profit or loss until you sell. HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR!!
Outstanding
Have a nice day
:)

[CJ]

I should go away and spend some time to learn the difference, but can anyone explain to me briefly? Compliance listing, back door listing, and IPO??.
IPO - new offer of shares
Compliance listing- new listing but no new shares listed
Back door - existing shell company listed on exchange buys another business

It does appear this was a compliance listing from some very quick googling). How the hell did sea dragon end up as a shareholder

Did Sorensen get his shares in the per listing capital raising at 6.5c or was he a holder before hand?

[Brain]

Does anybody know Handleys shareholding and how much he paid for it?

[Merc]

I thought the objective in shares was to buy a whole heap of shares in a company before everyone woke up to how good the company is. The longer the shares stay "under the radar" and cheap the better for the smart investor who has done their research as it gives a longer time frame to buy more. The more you have at a cheap price the better the dividend yield - and later you can cash into the capital growth on a much larger volume of them when everyone else figures out how good they are.

Unless one is into share trading of course with a desire for a quick rise to grab the profit.

Have one or two people maxed out their credit cards in expectation of a quick profit and are now down to eating sardines on toast and hiding from the landlord? Or have I got the fundamentals wrong?

[RTM]

Hey Moosey, pleased I have not Snakked on these as yet...... Who was it mentioned 9cents a ways back ?

[GRIFFIN]

If you own SNK shares and feel exposed i suggest you re read Majorbarejets post as that fairly well sums it up.The worst aspect of this situation is there are a lot of very new investors in this stock who may not have dabbled in shares before and by the looks of yesterdays trading some may have bailed.The sad thing here is they may never enter the market again and buy any shares in any company which is not a good look for SNK.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I never play with anything but my own hard earned here, a rule I will never break. the stock is not being determined by the market; its being controlled by a single holder. that's not an investment


lol, croesus did. might be goung off te mata peak soon at this rate!

I might join ya, except I won't have a parachute on, LOL.:D

[SCOTTY]

As an outsider looking in:

At this stage it is basically an unproven business which at 12cps has a market cap of $30m plus. As a business how can you justify such a valuation?

[Huskeez]

As an outsider looking in:

At this stage it is basically an unproven business which at 12cps has a market cap of $30m plus. As a business how can you justify such a valuation?

Im with you mate, this stock is in a downtrend, marketwise its yet to prove itself, way more opportunities out there in my eyes and would rather have my capital tied up in something with a higher probability of giving me a return for now. Just my opinion. Entertaining thread though. Alot of "married" investors with this stock

[robbo24]

I don't think mobile advertising is really all that complicated.

There's so much money around mobile apps and advertising that I don't see how anyone could mess it up.

Even if the company remains small relative compared to the size of the market, it still has value.

I guess that is the real question, what is its value?

[kizame]

I don't think mobile advertising is really all that complicated.

There's so much money around mobile apps and advertising that I don't see how anyone could mess it up.

Even if the company remains small relative compared to the size of the market, it still has value.

I guess that is the real question, what is its value?

The real question should be what will it's value be in a years time?
Not worried about the current value,the future is where this company is aiming,so why look at the present.

[steve fleming]

The real question should be what will it's value be in a years time?
Not worried about the current value,the future is where this company is aiming,so why look at the present.

??

Is the future value not just a function of today's present value? (NPV times an interest factor = future value)

Unless you are confusing value and price.

In which case, it is worthwhile to remember Buffett : "Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

[blackcap]

??

Is the future value not just a function of today's present value? (NPV times an interest factor = future value)

Unless you are confusing value and price.

In which case, it is worthwhile to remember Buffett : "Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."


I think we are arguing semantics here. When valuing a company we look to future cash flows and give them a present value by whatever means. So yes present value is in some ppls books forward looking :) Am I making any sense here?

[etrader]

Is there an industry person on this forum that is in new media who would like to outline what SNK actually does.

The reason I purchased shares in it are as follows.

*Derek has good history to date getting start ups growing and selling them to larger players.
*4th generation media is growing 43% in oz this year just gone yet SNK outstripped the growth.
*Debt free company generating north of $3 mill in sales
*My understanding is SNK work in the middle of the clients and the large advertising companies to target ads for those clients.

DYOR these are just my views of why I purchased into SNK.
I'm sure if the stock had rocketed to .24c already everyone would be talking this company up.

[kizame]

Look for gods sake people have a little faith.
The guy has got a great reputation,if he intends going on circuits to do motivational talks and wants to advance in the other areas that have been mentioned outside the business,he's not going to be able to do that successfully with a failed or flailing listed company behind him.
As you mentioned etrader, they already have a track record and so far it's pretty good,so people relax and let some water go under the bridge without trying to dam it all up with your hands.

[steve fleming]

I don't think mobile advertising is really all that complicated.

There's so much money around mobile apps and advertising that I don't see how anyone could mess it up.

Even if the company remains small relative compared to the size of the market, it still has value.

I guess that is the real question, what is its value?

Another question to consider is how much value has been created since Handley sold the Snakk business to Snakk Media Ltd for $5m just over 18 months ago. (assuming that $5m represented willing buyer / willing seller market value at that time)

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Is there an industry person on this forum that is in new media who would like to outline what SNK actually does.

You mean you bought shares in a company and you don't even know exactly what they do?

For people interested in one of the biggest mobile media companies in the world, check out NYSE:MM (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MM). It has revenue of ~US$180 million and a market cap of ~US$650 million - A P/S of 3.6! It is growing at around the same rate as SNK, except that isn't off a tiny base like SNK. It's also trading at a third of the price that it was listed at, even though revenue has grown massively. I haven't researched it much so there may be a reason for the current value, but MM seems like a much better deal doesn't it? :confused:

[etrader]

Johnny thanks for info - mate I do know what I bought into I simply wanted a better industry person to detail exactly what they do

[Blendy]

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by etrader http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=412251#post412251)
Is there an industry person on this forum that is in new media who would like to outline what SNK actually does.

My husband's an iOS app developer and I showed him the SNK brochure that came in the mail a while ago, and he had never heard of them and didn't seem to be at all excited about what they do.

I'm involved with new media, and from what I can tell, SNK make ad campaigns for mobiles that show up in various apps that people use. (I personally always ignore those ads). However, it seems they must have access to advertise on quite a lot of mobile apps and have metrics that can be tracked across various social media networks so that advertisers can measure how viral their campaign has gone. For advertisers, this is useful, and they probably get a lot of well-targeted ad placement. For customers (who don't ignore ads) they may be more likely to click on the ads that have high target appeal to them.

I'm guessing they must do a bit more than offer targeted ads with great analytics, and I have wondered why they need to be a listed company. I could be wrong, but they seem to me like they are simply an advertising agency offering a product.

[Huskeez]

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by etrader http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=412251#post412251)
Is there an industry person on this forum that is in new media who would like to outline what SNK actually does.

My husband's an iOS app developer and I showed him the SNK brochure that came in the mail a while ago, and he had never heard of them and didn't seem to be at all excited about what they do.

I'm involved with new media, and from what I can tell, SNK make ad campaigns for mobiles that show up in various apps that people use. (I personally always ignore those ads). However, it seems they must have access to advertise on quite a lot of mobile apps and have metrics that can be tracked across various social media networks so that advertisers can measure how viral their campaign has gone. For advertisers, this is useful, and they probably get a lot of well-targeted ad placement. For customers (who don't ignore ads) they may be more likely to click on the ads that have high target appeal to them.

I'm guessing they must do a bit more than offer targeted ads with great analytics, and I have wondered why they need to be a listed company. I could be wrong, but they seem to me like they are simply an advertising agency offering a product.

Lol nothing more frustrating then using an app and accidentally clicking those bloody ads and a new window pops up Grrrrrrr!!

[Zaphod]

Lol nothing more frustrating then using an app and accidentally clicking those bloody ads and a new window pops up Grrrrrrr!!

Yes, it's definitely frustrating. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done to ensure that mobile ads are of a truly responsive design (i.e. they adapt to the size of the screen).

The other big issue is that there is no industry standard method of tracking in mobile ads. Apple have decided to move away from their proprietary Universal Device IDentifier (UDID) to the IDentifier For Advertising (IDFA) - supposedly for privacy reasons - but that is not a cross platform solution.

[whatsup]

That is the point though isn't it? No one (on here at least) seems to know the details of what SNK does. We all know the sector they are in, we all know they are led by a charismatic/successful entrepreneur in Handley, we know they are growing their revenue (but as pointed out off a very small base), and we have a an understanding of their business model, BUT there is nothing on this thread (or in the public domain) that I can see, above and beyond the Edison report and a few case studies on the SNK website, regarding the products SNK offers, how they work, and why they are any good.

My major concern is that for all the love that SNK has, there doesnt appear to be any answers to these questions and therefore quite a large gap in the understanding of this company. I'd love to know the answers because if they were solid I would be interested in investing, but until I can get at least a basic understanding of what SNK is selling it's a no go for me. (and this is regardless of the troubles the SP is having at the moment)

Have you attended one of the meetings where he answered any and all questions or even still have you phoned him , he is very approachable.?

[Banksie]

I think I understand what snakk, do here goes:

A client e.g. Pepsi Cola contract Snakk to design them a mobile marketing campaign. Snakk charge them for designing the campaign, creating any websites or apps it needs, and picking the delivery mechanism (social media, mobile newspapers, in app adverts etc.)

Another client e.g. Fairfax media have an inventory of advertising spots in their mobile apps. Snakk match their campaigns to these spots. Every time the advert is clicked Fairfax charge Pepsi via Snakk who take a cut for brokering the relationship.

The stats from their Pepsi campaign - with my comments:


11,756,656 Impressions - number of adverts placed.
0.59% click through - number of people who clicked on it.
48901 mobile site visits - number of people who went to the competition site.
10825 competition submissions - self explanatory :)
22% overall engagement rate - not sure?


Analysing if these are good or bad numbers would give you an idea of the effectiveness of the Snakk approach. (I am not sure if they are good as I don't really follow the mobile marketing industry.)

[ari]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/176880.pdf

[CJ]

I think I understand what snakk, do here goes:

A client e.g. Pepsi Cola contract Snakk to design them a mobile marketing campaign. Snakk charge them for designing the campaign, creating any websites or apps it needs, and picking the delivery mechanism (social media, mobile newspapers, in app adverts etc.)

Another client e.g. Fairfax media have an inventory of advertising spots in their mobile apps. Snakk match their campaigns to these spots. Every time the advert is clicked Fairfax charge Pepsi via Snakk who take a cut for brokering the relationship.It does sound like an ad agency that specialised in the mobile area rather than a mobile/tech company. It sounds very reliant on people which will make it difficult to scale.

[goldfish]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/176880.pdf

Any thoughts on this? I cant read it on phone will have to wait till later. Interested on if it holds anything unexpected though.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

It does sound like an ad agency that specialised in the mobile area rather than a mobile/tech company. It sounds very reliant on people which will make it difficult to scale.

Exactly. This is will be no DIL or XRO (in my opinion).

[CJ]

Exactly. This is will be no DIL or XRO (in my opinion).Doesn't mean it wont be succcessful. Just look at Datacom, a huge NZ technology services company. But its profit margin is not anything close to what DIL is (or what people must be projecting XRO's will be)

[goldfish]

Nothing really unexpected, just expanding costs and an uptick in revenue. No say on takeovers/mergers/expansion as of yet.

Sweet thanks.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Doesn't mean it wont be succcessful. Just look at Datacom, a huge NZ technology services company. But its profit margin is not anything close to what DIL is (or what people must be projecting XRO's will be)

Completely agree - it has a good shot at being successful and I hope that it is. I just feel that people have bought this stock without proper research and are expecting it to be the next DIL or XRO, when in reality it is nothing like them and should not trade on multiples anything like SaaS companies.

[lastmoa]

Completely agree - it has a good shot at being successful and I hope that it is. I just feel that people have bought this stock without proper research and are expecting it to be the next DIL or XRO, when in reality it is nothing like them and should not trade on multiples anything like SaaS companies.

Yep, totally agreed. I cringe when people use XRO & DIL in the same sentence. Like Moosie said, the company/space is promising and holders will have to be in for a long(ish) ride.
btw, Moosie, tell me that Handley never used the term "Xero-like run' to the media.

[goldfish]

Ugh very ugly, wonder if handley will talk about this on his motivational business talks, or in his books.