Snakk

[see weed]

Just never seen such huge gaps in trading. Everyone was gung ho last week. Sellers now destroying the sp. More scizhophrenic than the local tabby cat on a mixture of LSD, mushrooms and barbiturates!

Well i suppose we can buy some more at these lower prices, and then sell them just before the 3rd. Q results and the positive news about Snakk entering Asia. When do you think the 3rd Q results will come out Moose ? Feb- March? Thats not far away.

[couta1]

Okay Guys,Enough fretting if you believe the company has good potential (I do) stop worrying about these big sellers and stand firm.

[Schrodinger]

My daily tea leaves are telling me the skinny margins due to a high COGS will hamper long term returns in this stock

[Blue Horseshoe]

Can I suggest that you switch to tea bags, Google don't seem to have a problem making money.?

[J R Ewing]

Can I suggest that you switch to tea bags, Google don't seem to have a problem making money.?

ROFL - that's the best comparison yet!!

[Balance]

13.2 on 7424 shares Moosie.

Not very remarkable in my book.

This trade tells you all you want to know about Snakk and the people behind the company.

Shares get sold down on big volume to 12c, and up pops a $980 trade to make the sp looked 10% better.

Out comes more volume selling at 12.5c.

Moosie, just make sure you are not last person left holding a parcel of toxic waste!

[blackcap]

This trade tells you all you want to know about Snakk and the people behind the company.

Shares get sold down on big volume to 12c, and up pops a $980 trade to make the sp looked 10% better.

Out comes more volume selling at 12.5c.

Moosie, just make sure you are not last person left holding the parcel of toxic waste!

Balance... totally concur with your sentiments re this stock but you have done more than enough. I think your well timed warnings are falling on deaf ears (or ears that do not want to hear (denial)) as greed takes over and dollar signs take charge :)

[Balance]

Balance... totally concur with your sentiments re this stock but you have done more than enough. I think your well timed warnings are falling on deaf ears (or ears that do not want to hear (denial)) as greed takes over and dollar signs take charge :)

Thanks, blackcap.

Warning really for newies.

Moosie can take care of himself.

Handley reminds me so much of Eric Watson in the way he operates, it is not funny!

[silu]

Handley reminds me so much of Eric Watson in the way he operates, it is not funny!

I made very good money following Eric Watson around. You just have to know when to jump ship.

[Balance]

I made very good money following Eric Watson around. You just have to know when to jump ship.

Game has changed.

Insider trading is a criminal offense these days so not so easy to play as Eric did.

[blackcap]

Thanks, blackcap.

Warning really for newies.

Moosie can take care of himself.

Handley reminds me so much of Eric Watson in the way he operates, it is not funny!

Yes newbies do need to be warned, because there are a lot of them out there that are unfortunately sucked in by a lot of hype and less substance in the markets. Those of us that have been around long enough can see the signs. Moosie although young is learning fast I feel as he showed by bailing on DIL when he did. If he wants to pursue SNK well he cannot say he has been warned :)

[couta1]

I was one who bought in earlier in the year largely due to Moosies enthusiasm but my holding is only 0.7 percent of my portfolio and I'm keen to see where this company goes, Blackcap are you saying those of us that haven't bailed out of Dil are a bit silly? Moosie keep up the enthusiasm you will achieve more in life than your lose in many areas, I have.

[SCOTTY]

Yes newbies do need to be warned, because there are a lot of them out there that are unfortunately sucked in by a lot of hype and less substance in the markets. Those of us that have been around long enough can see the signs. Moosie although young is learning fast I feel as he showed by bailing on DIL when he did. If he wants to pursue SNK well he cannot say he has been warned :)

Well put Blackcap.

Even at the current price of 12.4cents, Snakk has a market valuation of $32.5m which is a lot of money. Compare this to the current fundermentals of the business. Not for me thanks.

[Balance]

I was one who bought in earlier in the year largely due to Moosies enthusiasm but my holding is only 0.7 percent of my portfolio and I'm keen to see where this company goes, Blackcap are you saying those of us that haven't bailed out of Dil are a bit silly? Moosie keep up the enthusiasm you will achieve more in life than your lose in many areas, I have.

A bull market makes an amateur feel like he is a master of the game.

Alas, bull markets never last forever.

Even experts get caught as we well know.

So just be careful out there.

Sharks come out when the fishes are congregating.

[couta1]

Comments noted Balance, my comments re enthusiasm were directed to all of life's activities not just the sharemarket,cheers

[Balance]

Comments noted Balance, my comments re enthusiasm were directed to all of life's activities not just the sharemarket,cheers

Good way to live, couta1.

Cheers!

[winner69]

Moosie, just make sure you are not last person left holding a parcel of toxic waste!

Toxic ....I now worried about the state of his feet .....he did say he filled his boots the other day with SNK

[Harvey Specter]

Interested in others thoughts??I think Sorenson is the only one willing to sell at lower than 12c, HPF sold some earlier when it was high and appears to be selling again now that it is above 12c. So while it keeps a cap on the price, it shouldn't push it down.

SEA is holding a bit longer as they are raising cash through a SPP.

[Harvey Specter]

Always happy to be proved wrong but how can you deduce HPF is only selling above 12c?

Their last SSH stated:

From 18 July 2013 to 28 November 2013, HPF Investments Limited sold 2,816,114 shares in Snakk Media Limited on market for total consideration of $336,135.43.

During that time the shares traded roughly in the range of 7c to 15c.

That being said my main point really is to question those that buy into statements such as "the trend is your friend" yet appear to be still willing to hold this share now (in a down trend), particularly given this stocks history of how low big holders are willing to sell it down to??Which is roughly 12c. I dont think they were the ones that pushed it down to its depths.

I think it depends on whether you are trading it or trying to buy into the longer term growth in mobile advertising they are trying to tap into.

[blackcap]

I think people need to read post #2967 and work out the implications thereof....

[gv1]

Maybe! I hope so for holders sakes. I eye ball stuff (no TA). To me the SP looks to have turned another corner.

As Xerof, Balance and blackcap have hinted at, insiders are likely selling down now as well so I just don't feel the SP is in a very good place right now...

Also as Balance pointed out earlier, that trade yesterday on bugger all volume (less that $1000) which sent the SP up 10% (and which gains have now been completely erased) were a trademark of the type of trading activity that eventually sent this stock down to sub 7c levels....

All I am saying is, be careful with this one. I might be wrong (looking at tends over too short a time frame) but I may also be right and history would be on my side with respect to this stock anyway!

Good to hear from you mate. Have you got a job now, that we don't hear much from you. I also feel the same way, should wait for next announcement and see where investments are made by the co.

[gv1]

Haha, nah mate still in the same position; Busy as ever (full time studies, part time job, and a few private contracts every now and then). Just taken the arvo off to watch the cricket and do a few jobs before Xmas!! Have taken the time to looks at a few companies in a bit more detail today, SNK being one of them.

I sincerely hope SNK is profitable for all holders, the SP movements (amongst other things) make me feel a little uneasy though.
Cheers mate. All the best.

[see weed]

Always happy to be proved wrong but how can you deduce HPF is only selling above 12c?

Their last SSH stated:

From 18 July 2013 to 28 November 2013, HPF Investments Limited sold 2,816,114 shares in Snakk Media Limited on market for total consideration of $336,135.43.

During that time the shares traded roughly in the range of 7c to 15c.

That being said my main point really is to question those that buy into statements such as "the trend is your friend" yet appear to be still willing to hold this share now (in a down trend), particularly given this stocks history of how low big holders are willing to sell it down to??

Which is = to average price of .119c.

[Balance]

Interesting turmeric, thanks for the advice. buyers are indeed in control again and I think our buyer is out to see how low sellers are willing to go again before coming back in. Risk off sentiment in general market not helping either.



Eh, you mean sellers are back in control?

I see offers at 12.5, then 12.4 at volume and the buyer is backing off.

[blackcap]

Why are the sellers, selling, is the question we need to ask ourselves if we are shareholders. Especially sellers with large lots of shares. Surely they are not that stupid? Why is it that these sellers are appearing "after" the H/Y result was out? Think about it.

[jonu]

Why are the sellers, selling, is the question we need to ask ourselves if we are shareholders. Especially sellers with large lots of shares. Surely they are not that stupid? Why is it that these sellers are appearing "after" the H/Y result was out? Think about it.

I don't know if there is much point in trying to hammer that home blackcap. I asked it weeks ago on here and no one took much notice.

By the way, how about your namesakes? Southee cleaning up this morning, haven't checked since.

[Balance]

Jonu, you must have conveniently skipped over my stating that Sprehead was sitting on 10+ baggers, is looking to fund a Mega listing and is an investment banker who only sees $$$$ signs.

HPF is also sitting on multibaggers and might be looking to fund the next big NZ startup. Either that or they want their account balanced by Xmas.

SEA is selling down because... well, you can read their announcements for that reason!

is that enough speculation/infor for you? ive stated it multiple, multiple times!

Moosie, you can write the same things about the other backdoor jobs - like Certified Organics, New Image etc. They always have a reason to sell. But nobody sells a good thing if they know it is good.

I met Certified Organics after they were talking up their prospects with the broomrape eradication program in Southern Australia. Sp was heading north so it was a good time to find out what was going on. The story sounded really good until I was asked if I wanted to buy some shares. I asked from where and the answer was from some of the directors and promotors. Could not get out of there fast enough. Company's sp collapsed a few months later.

[Xerof]

Guys, Let what will be, be. Moosie is a grown-up moose in charge of his own destiny. He lost an antler on DIL in a remarkably similar sounding approach to what we are witnessing here again.

Careful with that antler Eugene

Syd

[couta1]

Guys, Let what will be, be. Moosie is a grown-up moose in charge of his own destiny. He lost an antler on DIL in a remarkably similar sounding approach to what we are witnessing here again.

Careful with that antler Eugene

Syd
Moosie don't worry if I was a Moose I'd only have my legs and tail left based on CNU and Dil

[Copper]

Haha, nah mate still in the same position; Busy as ever (full time studies, part time job, and a few private contracts every now and then). Just taken the arvo off to watch the cricket and do a few jobs before Xmas!! Have taken the time to looks at a few companies in a bit more detail today, SNK being one of them.

I sincerely hope SNK is profitable for all holders, the SP movements (amongst other things) make me feel a little uneasy though.

Hi..you seem to have had a good average day. The cricket was good.On the tv though on CNBC late in the day was the usual program where today they were discussing the Internet and mobile shares. Facebook and some Chinese leaders in the field like Baidu were mentioned in the text of being on a tremendous roll.In Australia the MBE,MKO and Mint all made some gains after weeks in the doldrums.It was agreed that the sector was the one to be in.SNK is our version of this.Can you not think(not necessarily agree) that the average punter in this country including instos may give SNK a go.The elephant has left the room,the dragon seems to have enuf meths to keep his flame going for now and the bakers seem to be somewhat erratic in their selling.As I have mentioned before the average public have never heard of all the dramas on this thread .They certainly reappear as soon as the price goes down.Never heard from the other way.

[blocker3]

Hi..you seem to have had a good average day. The cricket was good.On the tv though on CNBC late in the day was the usual program where today they were discussing the Internet and mobile shares. Facebook and some Chinese leaders in the field like Baidu were mentioned in the text of being on a tremendous roll.In Australia the MBE,MKO and Mint all made some gains after weeks in the doldrums.It was agreed that the sector was the one to be in.SNK is our version of this.Can you not think(not necessarily agree) that the average punter in this country including instos may give SNK a go.The elephant has left the room,the dragon seems to have enuf meths to keep his flame going for now and the bakers seem to be somewhat erratic in their selling.As I have mentioned before the average public have never heard of all the dramas on this thread .They certainly reappear as soon as the price goes down.Never heard from the other way.


Great read Copper and good information passed on about CNBC .I have been unable to read the Snakk thread until now the end of the day. I sense frustration setting in by many posters over the share drop. I also do not like it due to the big boys selling down. HOWEVER THEY WILL RUN OUT OF SHARES TO SELL. Snakk will show its true colours. I am not selling at all as at a blink of an eye the share price can shoot up again.

Copper I do own some shares in MKB (thanks to information passed on by Moosie)and today it shot up 4.5c to 30.5c.This daily 17.3% increase does happen and can happen to Snakk also. They may have an announcement up their sleave that we know nothing about then the share price reflects that afterwards. Onward's and upwards for the long term trend. Cheers

PS: My end of year share price was 16c. Lets see

[bonne vie]

Since the halfyear results there has been little actual analysis of the financials on the thread.Possibly the analysts on ST were too busy on the 2/12/13 or have since got lostamong all the general comments re who buying/selling etc. Below I have copied 2 of my 3 posts analysisposts from 2/12/13 (#2873 was just a general overview) -I would be interestedof what the financial analysts out there make of the comments re thereceivables and payables. For ease in this case I have repeated posts below.
Post 2875 2/12/ 13
Looking at thefinancials one figure that looks a little out of synch is the Debtors and otherreceivables at $2089k. The report says April to July (assume this should readJune) revenue $1220 and July - Sep $1800k = total $3,020. So based on this thedebtors figures represent more than a quarters sales - why so slow atcollecting or very generous terms, or is it revenue recognition timing(recognising whole say 3 month contract before service delivered?) Hope notanother Diligent where accounts need to be restated at a latter date.
Would also be interesting to know the split of the revenue e.g revenue forinitial advertising set up and revenue from the clicks on it - this is if myunderstanding of the business operandi is correct.

I appreciate it is Debtors and other receivables but wouldn't other receivablesonly be nominal.
Post # 2882 2/12/13
I am not sureif your remark means - take creditors into consideration or the creditors areequally out of synch.

Yes I had looked at Trade and other payables and they equally look high at$2260k or 58% of the total for the period. given Direct Costs $1645k andOperating expenses $2213k = total $3,858k. or 107 days turnover. There is cashin the Bank why are they not getting paid.

This may include a few too many assumptions but if you assume the Operatingexpenses/staff costs are the same each month at $369k and the trade and otherpayables are on 60 days terms (obviously wages are not) then the make up of theTrade and other payables is
Operating expenses $738k
Media payables $1522 92.5% of the total for 6 months - Are the Mediasuppliersgiving Snakk great trade terms, or is there perhaps a lot of contras or ??.
Not sure what it all means - all I am saying is we know approx. 60% of therevenue was earned in the last quarter but the reported creditors appear tocover nearly the whole 6 months.

[blackcap]

Bonnie vie, financials and debtors turnover etc do not matter with SNK. SNK are a new "cloud type" company. All that matters is revenue and share price :P

[winner69]

Cheers for that Copper. The day big boys finally run put is going to be very interesting indeed. ALOT held all the way to 7 cents and back up to 15.5. While Sorehead is gone the Bakery Boys have taken over and are pretty obvious sellers with their 200, 000 share parcels. Small traders are in there as well but I still see mamy are still holding strong. When that sell side finally dries up for good were going to see some serious gains. in the mean time, as Balance has said, treat it as a gift for cheap shares.

rise from 7 to 15.3 (high), then bounce off our low of 12 cents represents 61.8% fibonnacci retracement. Freaky eh?

Most books have that as a 31.8% retracement ...... but then some books have it as 68.2% .... but I would have said 31.8% because 31.8% of the 8.3 rise is 3.2 and take 3.2 off 15.3 you get 12.1 which is pretty close to 12

Maybe the 50% retracement at 11.2 would save any discussion ..... 11.2 sounds like a nice number

[bonne vie]

Bonnie vie, financials and debtors turnover etc do not matter with SNK. SNK are a new "cloud type" company. All that matters is revenue and share price :P
But surely if the revenue is not being converted to cash, rather staying as a debtor and likewise if cash is not being used to pay creditors and staying the balance sheet as a liability there could be an issue - e.g. contras

[blackcap]

But surely if the revenue is not being converted to cash, rather staying as a debtor and likewise if cash is not being used to pay creditors and staying the balance sheet as a liability there could be an issue - e.g. contras

Yes definitely contras could be an issue, thus the tongue in cheek comment. I have not had time to look at the SNK accounts in detail yet. Maybe I will find a spare hour or so this weekend if I can be bothered. Its with morbid fascination that I follow this stock.

[bonne vie]

Oops blackcap - thought it was an unusual comment from a senior member - totally missed the tongue in cheek, must be a long day. Luv your comment though - seems that anything "cloud type" is seen by many to be outside the normal financial basics.

Disc Burnt once with Snakk, slow learner bought back in - think get out B/E.

[ari]

Snakk in the top 100..http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11167723

[Copper]

Bonnie vie, financials and debtors turnover etc do not matter with SNK. SNK are a new "cloud type" company. All that matters is revenue and share price :P

You would relate to the Herald article just posted.Quite impressive companies.
I think Colgate will be contacting Derek soon..

[blackcap]

Yeah if that index of companies is ranked on revenue growth in percentage terms, what a joke. What is the base, what are costs to obtain the revenue, etc, I could go on.

[blackcap]

Would love to know the base for that 26000% grower. $1.76?

Point is, if Xero is still in at 104th on less than 100% growth Y-on-Y then Snakk will be as well with 147% this quarter. Snakk appears to be doing a Xero and expanding losses for growth. You still knocking Xero BC? im not saying SNK is the next Xero, just there are similarities and it seems to work very well.

Guess I know how the original Xero buyers felt now in the early days!

Yeah still knocking XRO. In fact posted a week ago saying that I had gone short. Quite happy with that decision now :)

[Copper]

Would love to know the base for that 26000% grower. $1.76?

Point is, if Xero is still in at 104th on less than 100% growth Y-on-Y then Snakk will be as well with 147% this quarter. Snakk appears to be doing a Xero and expanding losses for growth. You still knocking Xero BC? im not saying SNK is the next Xero, just there are similarities and it seems to work very well.

Guess I know how the original Xero buyers felt now in the early days!

Look up Google.Bloomberg article.It's listed. Am no analyst but bottom line profit seems to be on sharp uptrend and exes down as percentage.Don't know what 10000 % is based on.

[Balance]

The old Eric Watson trick - hire a really good PR firm, wine and dine the hell out of the journos, get on the front covers of magazines etc.

Then, start milking.

[Copper]

The old Eric Watson trick - hire a really good PR firm, wine and dine the hell out of the journos, get on the front covers of magazines etc.

Then, start milking.

Balance are we on about Snakk or China Communications group ,or Xero or Deloittes or was it just an overall comment when Eric sprung to mind.....

[Balance]

Balance are we on about Snakk or China Communications group ,or Xero or Deloittes or was it just an overall comment when Eric sprung to mind.....

Notice how Handley is getting himself over front pages of magazines etc?

Young gullible journos writing about their heros after being wined and dined and placed in the company of beautiful people?

The old Eric Watson trick.

[Copper]

Notice how Handley is getting himself over front pages of magazines etc?

Young gullible journos writing about r heros after being wined and dined and placed in the company of beautiful people?

The old Eric Watson trick.

Tks for that .It sounded like a speech plucked out of mid air...Fully understand now.

[Copper]

Notice how Handley is getting himself over front pages of magazines etc?

Young gullible journos writing about r heros after being wined and dined and placed in the company of beautiful people?

The old Eric Watson trick.

Tks for that .It sounded like a speech plucked out of mid air...Fully understand now.

[Balance]

Do you have any evidence of this balance? id be careful what you post on here which isnt fact, many types of eyes watching...

Questions and observations from me, Moose - we are allowed to observe and ask.

Many eyes watching - of course I know that. There are dark forces at work here.

Looking forward to my next tangle with them.

NZX should be investigating the price movements and trading on this stock?

[jonu]

Do you have any evidence of this balance? id be careful what you post on here which isnt fact, many types of eyes watching...

Moosie, did you ever think to run that standard over yor own postings regarding who is selling? You've been extremely vocal on this thread about exactly who is doing what and with what motivation. If it's good for the goose... it's good for the Moose:)

[gv1]

Do you have any evidence of this balance? id be careful what you post on here which isnt fact, many types of eyes watching...

Todays NZ Herald mate. I thought the same.

[J R Ewing]

Linkage please?

Refer post 3026 I think

[ari]

Just to continue on Eric, did he not feature in cousin SeaDragon's earlier life under Aquaria21......and yep that was all "piss & wind' or hype as you call it!

[see weed]

There apears to be a block of 6 shareholders at .129 to .132c. It is like a game of poker, and they have showen their hands. If I was to sell 100,000 shares, I wouldn't put them at the top of the list, but would wait until the price rises to what I wanted then just jump across and sell them. All that block is going to do is scare smaller buyers away, or is there something else going on , and are keeping the sp down for some reason?;)

[J R Ewing]

Thats what I never got. These guys have always been the majority sellers and are absolutely terrible at frightening away buyers. When they do stack up they take them down, frighten off more buyers then they go lower, and lower and lower! obviously a) dont care about maximising profit or b) didnt take many psych classes at all!

Do you think that "these guys" are sitting there in front of a computer watching the market depth and current bids all day? Won't they be selling through a broker?

[Balance]

Thats what I never got. These guys have always been the majority sellers and are absolutely terrible at frightening away buyers. When they do stack up they take them down, frighten off more buyers then they go lower, and lower and lower! obviously a) dont care about maximising profit or b) didnt take many psych classes at all!

Moose, you are making a huge assumption that Snakk is worth more than 5c.

Correction - 0.5c which is what Handley etc got their shares at.

[Balance]

Market decides the value. Today it is 12.9 cents. I can wish it to $1.50 all I want and you can wish it to $0.05 all you want but even when the market is wrong, its right ;)

That's where you are wrong.

Market thought Rakon was worth $5.00 but those who sold out then, knew it wasn't.

Market thought Chorus was worth $2.30, but those who heeded the warnings and sold out, knew it wasn't.

The market is only right at a point in time.

[robbo24]

Market thought Chorus was worth $2.30, but those who heeded the warnings and sold out, knew it wasn't.

Isn't this where the price/value distinction comes in though, Balance?

At this very moment Chorus is still charging ~$45 per line as the CC decision has not been finalized. Are you talking about price or value?

[Balance]

Isn't this where the price/value distinction comes in though, Balance?

At this very moment Chorus is still charging ~$45 per line as the CC decision has not been finalized. Are you talking about price or value?

I am talking value.

As Buffett said, the share market is a popularity contest in the short term, but a weighing machine in the long term.

Popularity contests as we know can be manipulated via make up, bribes, publicity, manipulation etc.

Contestants have even been known to grant sexual favors to judges to win contests.

In the end, the real beauty lies in the heart and the mind, right?

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Thats what I never got. These guys have always been the majority sellers and are absolutely terrible at frightening away buyers. When they do stack up they take them down, frighten off more buyers then they go lower, and lower and lower! obviously a) dont care about maximising profit or b) didnt take many psych classes at all!

Maybe they want out at a quicker rate. I have always been very dubious about this stock. Isn't this just a glorified marketing company? Pretty outrageously high market cap for a marketing company. The margins will be so small, there's no way you can apply 'cloud' valuation techniques to this (whatever that means, eh?). Seems like a few people here are just looking at what happened to those marketing companies on the ASX and are assuming it'll happen to SNK.

There have been 200 odd pages on this thread and probably 99% of them have been absolutely rubbish - all hype and nothing financial or of substance. Me thinks this is just another good transfer of wealth from the 'dumb' to the 'smart' investors. Might still have a good rally whilst the NZX bull continues, but I'd be getting the hell out when it dies. Winner says 5000 by christmas so you have got nothing to worry about for now ;).

[Balance]

Maybe they want out at a quicker rate. I have always been very dubious about this stock. Isn't this just a glorified marketing company? Pretty outrageously high market cap for a marketing company. The margins will be so small, there's no way you can apply 'cloud' valuation techniques to this (whatever that means, eh?). Seems like a few people here are just looking at what happened to those marketing companies on the ASX and are assuming it'll happen to SNK.

There have been 200 odd pages on this thread and probably 99% of them have been absolutely rubbish - all hype and nothing financial or of substance. Me thinks this is just another good transfer of wealth from the 'dumb' to the 'smart' investors. Might still have a good rally whilst the NZX bull continues, but I'd be getting the hell out when it dies. Winner says 5000 by christmas so you have got nothing to worry about for now ;).

The musical game will only last so long.

The one left holding the parcel will become the monkey, having to perform party tricks for half-chewed spat out peanuts.

:D

[Dentie]

Well, here's a Snakk and a half Moosie...

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://gallery.menoutdoors.com/gallery/data/1164/orignal_2007_076.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gallery.menoutdoors.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo%3D16363%26size%3Dbig&h=480&w=640&sz=78&tbnid=YrDMF3fVdpOu4M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__2dK6QYpTGnCwyyIn1CSpByVgEHY=&docid=B60chp02rDgrJM&itg=1&sa=X&ei=CyikUuXdBYWUkgX6qYGwDA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAw

[see weed]

I'm a naughty little monkey. Catching falling knives from .15 to .07c and back up again. Is there any other monkeys out there who like musical games? Also like unchewed Nuts & Raisins.:) My party trick was to drink a glass of beer upside down doing a headstand. Did"nt have to pay for many beers, but boy you get boozed fast, goes straight to your head. Anyway back to the serious stuff

[Scottman]

From what I can see with this company and the people running it, they are smart & and high achievers. I like backing people of that calibre. I'm also happy to back them with some of my cash for the mid to long term. They are going places so lets go along for the ride with them and keep the negative comments to a minimum.

[In4a$]

From what I can see with this company and the people running it, they are smart & and high achievers. I like backing people of that calibre. I'm also happy to back them with some of my cash for the mid to long term. They are going places so lets go along for the ride with them and keep the negative comments to a minimum.
Got to have the odd negative comment, keeps one from getting to enthusiastic, keeps things in perspective

[Harvey Specter]

Got to have the odd negative comment, keeps one from getting to enthusiastic, keeps things in perspectiveAgree, especially if they actual put forward a proper argument. it can help remove the blinkers or explain why people aren't seeing the positive you are seeing.

Unfortunately I see this drifting in the 12-13c range for a while unless we get some more news. The (big) sellers dont seem to want to push the price down further again but with the overhang still there, no one is willing to push it up. Some good news early next year and hopefully the upward drift will continue. THose that got in at 7c have had a good run so no problems with it taking a breather at the moment.

[Scottman]

Yes all good Harvey . Thanks.

[Balance]

Keep negative comments to a minimum?

Oh wow!

[robbo24]

Keep negative comments to a minimum?

Oh wow!

Balance, I think your "Oh wow!" comment could be seen as negative.

Please respect the wishes of other users of the forum in relation to comments about SNK.

[Balance]

Balance, I think your "Oh wow!" comment could be seen as negative.

Please respect the wishes of other users of the forum in relation to comments about SNK.

I declare I am hereby reprimanded for having the audacity to post a (horror of horrors) negative comment on this high flying company where the interests of minority shareholders are utmost and paramount above all else to the directors and management, :D :D :D and I hereby also declare that I am suitably chastened.

[False Profit]

Balance, I think your "Oh wow!" comment could be seen as negative.

Please respect the wishes of other users of the forum in relation to comments about SNK.

That's got to be tongue in cheek....surely?

[Balance]

please send you detached balls to:

Snakkalicious Snakkaholics
c/o Snake-Oil Sorehead
Seven Cents Street
Snakkylvania
Snakkland, 6776

We await your reply :)

Will balls from the fxrnicating houseflies I just swatted, suffice?

I am sure Handley and Sorehead can make a decent meal out of them?

Afterall, they have already feasted on the balls of many of the Snakes who jumped in and bought shares?

:D

[robbo24]

please send you detached balls to:

Off to the sNACKERS with ye

[axe]

Joined the SNAKK party last week with a small bite. :)

This is going to be a risky but fun ride over the next 2-3 years.

[Balance]

Joined the SNAKK party last week with a small bite. :)

This is going to be a risky but fun ride over the next 2-3 years.

Don't worry, ride will be over as soon as the emperor's new clothings are revealed for all too see.

:D

[Balance]

Go on B, tell us what those new clothes are then eh?

You guys are the ones watching and observing the clothes being made?

Remember, no negative comments, ok?

PS. Only comments about light shining out of backsides allowed?

[Swiftideas]

Don't worry, ride will be over as soon as the emperor's new clothings are revealed for all too see.

:D

Go on then... Let's hear it you cranky old bugger

So far it's all based on a personal dislike for the founders and a grumble at backdoor listings.

Any actual insights yet?

[Balance]

Go on then... Let's hear it you cranky old bugger

So far it's all based on a personal dislike for the founders and a grumble at backdoor listings.

Any actual insights yet?

Another newie who thinks he knows better.

Oh well, he who knows not that he knows not :D

[Copper]

Another newie who thinks he knows better.

Oh well, he who knows not that he knows not :D

Balance from experience he may be an old newie or even a very old experienced newie who keeps getting reincarnated in the new world.You actually did not answer his question which is probably "I haven't sighted anything"

[Balance]

Balance from experience he may be an old newie or even a very old experienced newie who keeps getting reincarnated in the new world.You actually did not answer his question which is probably "I haven't sighted anything"

Only a newie writes like that.

Why do I have to share anything with anyone of you?

You are believers of a new cult, unshakeable in your faith, right?

The cult of Bishop 'high sales growth'.

Hmmm - reminds of the new paradigm of revenues multiple to value stock!

In 2000!

:D

[Copper]

Only a newie writes like that.

Why do I have to share anything with anyone of you?

You are believers of a new cult, unshakeable in your faith, right?

The cult of Bishop 'high sales growth'.

Hmmm - reminds of the new paradigm of revenues multiple to value stock!

In 2000!

:D

Balance...the newie seems to have been born in 2011 and has been listening to your stuff for three years.May have finally gone over the edge.You haven't really contributed anything here about the Company.Do you actually know anything about it?...

[winner69]

Moosie, Sorenson has come to get you!!!!

in reply to newie's first post a month or so ago

[Copper]

Now that Sorenson is gone, lets never mention him again. My poor tender Moose brain can't handle the recurring nightmares...

Talking about tender overworked brains ,post 3999 on XRO gave mine a new view on life.You may be interested or may already be in that field...regards....

[gloworm]

Is it just me or does this presentation for Sky TV's 'Sky Go' Ipad app look very similar to Snakk branding? I can't find anything officially linking the development together but we all know who Sky's newest board member is....

http://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/images/SKY%20GO%20Dec%20summary.pdf

NBR article on Sky Go:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/sky-tv-finally-releases-ipad-app-pros-cons-whats-next-CK

Actually I take that back "SKY GO App being developed from scratch. App design a collaboration between SKY, Massive Interactive (Australia) and Smudge Apps (New Zealand)."

[mrjeems]

Snakk interim report is out: http://investors.snakkmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Snakk-Media-Interim-Report-2013-v1.pdf

[PennyPicker]

Full report for the period April to September 2013 is now available.

http://investors.snakkmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Snakk-Media-Interim-Report-2013-v1.pdf

[winner69]

Ouch, got dumped on 10 minutes before report released. will be waitong for bottom on charts to pick up more earl 2014 :)

Why would the published half year have any impact today ....it's content been known for a while

[couta1]

Looks like sub 12 coming up tomorrow

[winner69]

Well 1,800,109 is mor than double 700,007 and as you can't say sales doubled plus a half you may as just as well say "almost tripled" ...only 300,000 odd out

Just like 2 is almost half of 5 isn't it

Remember they are in the creative industry ......"almost tripled" is not a lie, it is a true statement isn't it ......just have to live with it

[winner69]

Though the 183% looks wrong based on on your numbers

[couta1]

Well 1,800,109 is mor than double 700,007 and as you can't say sales doubled plus a half you may as just as well say "almost tripled" ...only 300,000 odd out

Just like 2 is almost half of 5 isn't it

Remember they are in the creative industry ......"almost tripled" is not a lie, it is a true statement isn't it ......just have to live with it
It's all good either way if your long term

[winner69]

The quarterly numbers you have must be different from what SNK are using

Other statements like YTD growth 147% and first quarter 116% don't tie in with their numbers

Full year 13 and YTD 14 are the same

Maybe SNK doing a restatement by sleuth moosie

[winner69]

Your 1220486 is wrong ..they said 1202464 on 26/8 Ann

Solves the first quarter problem / variance

[winner69]

I see in an earlier announcement that +94% was almost doubling

So we need to get used to doubling or tripling and nothing in between

[winner69]

Where you get pre listing revenues from?

[Scottman]

Maybe some clarification from someone at Snakk would be in order.

[winner69]

Ann 26/8 did sau unaudited so 2/12 number might be audited and therefore correct. The audit found another 18 thou.

But then again that is 119% increase from pcp and not 116% as they say ....but still 'more than doubled'

It's all academic anyway .... Just believe the story that SNK in as huge growth potential .... Numbers don't mean much do they?

[winner69]

Agree turmeric

Numbers are all over the place and the commentary flits from one period (like quarter) to YTD and then YTD v LY full year all in one breathe

And they are in the communication game!

[blackcap]

Agree turmeric

Numbers are all over the place and the commentary flits from one period (like quarter) to YTD and then YTD v LY full year all in one breathe

And they are in the communication game!

In my book this means this is one to avoid like the proverbial...

[Balance]

Looking at the financials, one thing which jumps out at me is the high level of debtors (accounts receivables) - 2/3rd of sales.

Accounting 101 says that's one thing to look at for signs of unsustainable sales.

[whatsup]

Singtel uses MBE, a big indorsment for MBE as if all is O K then SGT will roll out into other Asian telcos , up side for Snakk is a major carrier partnerships SNK in the same mannor.

[couta1]

Sub 12 pressure building

[winner69]

Sub 12 pressure building

Did somebody just dump a few hundred ....or about to?

[clip]

6000 @ 11.8

Those have been sitting there for a little while (over an hour) without a nibble

[Harvey Specter]

Did somebody just dump a few hundred ....or about to?NO sales that I can see yet and just small sellers chasing down but not able to catch the vanishing buyers.

[clip]

Don't think buyers have changed much today, that's me getting rid of 6000 @ 11.8. Buyers/sellers were at 11.6 / 2c this morning and 11.6 / 11.9 when I put the sell order in before 1pm, hasn't changed much since then.

[jonu]

Did somebody just dump a few hundred ....or about to?

Winner you cheeky monkey. And quite right too.

[winner69]

Winner you cheeky monkey. And quite right too.

id mean to include the word thou though

[clip]

PS 4 for xmas eh clip? ;)

Haven't decided yet, PS4, or perhaps a wee top-up of NTL. Or some litecoins/bitcoins.. Good buying opportunity as another small 'crash' today :)

[Harvey Specter]

A whole page of posts be shareholders about the intra day SP movements (of which there has been zip) and not a single shareholder has posted correct quarterly revenue numbers. One starts to think that no-one actually knows them......Traders vs investors.

[winner69]

If you believe the +183% for Q2 than what we believe to be Q2 last year must be heaps less (to get the higher % increase than we believe it to be)

Then again it appears as if Q1 last year is unchanged because the %ages stated seem to make sense

And the YTD % increase seems in order (if we use the Q2 we believe last year) but that could be wrong which means the YTD increase reported is wrong

The consistent number is full year last year .... but if our Q2 is wrong than by implication what we believe Q3 and/or Q4 last year must be wrong as well

Maybe they have 2 sets of books .....or just cant add

Never mid as long as last year was nearly $4m revenues and this year is heading to around $8m (nearly $10m eh) why should we worry ..... because next year will almost treble to $20m anyway

[winner69]

Traders vs investors.

not doing too much trading though .... must be investors

[mdr1]

The problem is that the 183% will have come from Audited Q2 2012/13 compared to unaudited Q2 2013/14. I'm assuming no one will have the audited quarter results except SNK themselves as they only report audited yearlies?

With the unaudited figures reported you can get much much closer than what was posted earlier in this thread, but things still don't add up, which is expected really since they are 'unaudited'.

12/13, 1, $556,696 (derived from growth in Q1 2013 report)
12/13, 2, $663,790 (totals $1,220,486, shown in Q2 2013 report)

13/14, 1, $1,202,464 (as per Q1 2013 report)
13/14, 2, $1,818,132 (totals $3,020,596, as per Q2 2013 report)

So with these figures there seems to be a slight discrepancy in that they note revenues of just 1,800,109, 18K short of the actual difference. But in this case I assume there has been some kind of adjustment to the previously reported Q1 figures. So really the 13/14, Q1 value above should be higher.

Anyway, 3,020,596 / 1,220,486 = 2.47 (i.e. 147% growth)
And 1,800,109 / 663,790 = 2.71 (i.e. 171% growth)

Still shy of 183% but again, unless someone has audited Q2 2012/13, we will never know.

[mdr1]

I should add, the essence of my comments above is that I don't think there are any funky reporting practices or massive errors going on here. Just some standard "creative" accounting and anomalies brought in by reporting audited vs unaudited. You have to take the commentary with a grain of salt in these reports.

[winner69]

Maybe they should do wat a lot do - tabulate the quarterly sales on the quarterly and YTD basis so there be no confusion or whatever

[couta1]

If you believe the +183% for Q2 than what we believe to be Q2 last year must be heaps less (to get the higher % increase than we believe it to be)

Then again it appears as if Q1 last year is unchanged because the %ages stated seem to make sense

And the YTD % increase seems in order (if we use the Q2 we believe last year) but that could be wrong which means the YTD increase reported is wrong

The consistent number is full year last year .... but if our Q2 is wrong than by implication what we believe Q3 and/or Q4 last year must be wrong as well

Maybe they have 2 sets of books .....or just cant add

Never mid as long as last year was nearly $4m revenues and this year is heading to around $8m (nearly $10m eh) why should we worry ..... because next year will almost treble to $20m anyway
Exactly, I'm in for the thrill of the ride and after all its a growth industry and anyway I'm only holding 50k shares so let's all sit back and relax and leave the mathematics till next year

[silverblizzard888]

Its quite possible the reason the numbers don't add up because they have rounded the decimal points of the % (maybe up or down), which is quite possibly since they seem to only work with (.5) or whole numbers all the time. Also quite possibly they have used audited or unaudited numbers that we don't know about. Given the short fall (which isnt too big) you'd still say they were impressive results none the less.:)

2013 numbers used from statement and the 2012 numbers generated from reversing those numbers, which when compared to the statement numbers and reversed numbers its slight off by 1.6%, which could well be cause of their rounding the growth%

2012
Q1 - $565,040 (reversing results of 116% growth)
Q2 - $636,081(reversing results of 183% growth)
Total = $1,201,121 (Snakk statement stated 1,220,486)

2013
Q1 - $1,220,486 (They say 116% growth)
Q2 - $1,800,109 (They say 183% growth)
Total =$3,020,596

Though when I look at tumerics numbers and if they are indeed the correct ones then I have a feeling they have made adjustment to numbers we quite well don't know about. The problem with transparency between shareholders and company.

[Scottman]

here here couta1. Too much delving can drive us nuts. I know we all want to get as clear as picture as possible but for me I'm happy to sit back & mow the lawns, dig the garden and let the company do the work. I'm confident that further down the track the fruits of labour will shine through for these guys.

hmm I thought I sprayed that weed earlier.

[baller18]

snk 12 cents, MBE at 20 cents.
Growth and long term story, MBE definitely stands way above SNK at the current prices...
MBE have signed up with some pretty big names around the world.
So why would you invest in SNK when MBE across the ditch has a lot more upside (is already profitable) and a lot less downside...

[couta1]

snk 12 cents, MBE at 20 cents.
Growth and long term story, MBE definitely stands way above SNK at the current prices...
MBE have signed up with some pretty big names around the world.
So why would you invest in SNK when MBE across the ditch has a lot more upside (is already profitable) and a lot less downside...
Because MBE is an Aussie company and we want to support an NZ story

[baller18]

Because MBE is an Aussie company and we want to support an NZ story
Lol are you serious?
So your saying if coke cola was at $20 right now and xero is at $30, you would pick xero?
Tui ad - "yeahhhhhhh right!"
Please buy every company on the nzx mate! :D

[baller18]

Question is, how much of that is alrwady priced in and how much are you willing to risk. like choosing between XRO and DIL: one has nothing wrong with it and is going places, but a lot of growth is factored in. The other is the underdog and could getthings very right in the near future, with a risk vs reward factor that is quite compelling. I say both are great plays, but I do like the underdog sometimes....
Yes, you are right moosie.
But has snk shown the ability to sign up big companies around the world? MBE has signed up 3 already. The market cap of MBE is around 60 and SNK at 30million.
MBE has a revenue of 12million, what is SNK's? 3 million? That is 4 times the revenue of SNK, not to mention the 3 big name companies they have signed up which leads to significant revenue in the future!

2 times the market cap size but 4 times the revenue at this stage...

MBE is already profitable and should increase along with their increase revenue...

I think its pretty clear isn't it.

12 mil / 60mil = 4
3mil / 30 mil = 10

MBE is trading at 4 times their sales ration whereas, SNK is trading at ten times!

[couta1]

Lol are you serious?
So youI have no experience saying if coke cola was at $20 right now and xero is at $30, you would pick xero?
Tui ad - "yeahhhhhhh right!"
Please buy every company on the nzx mate! :D
I like to support kiwis with a bit of vision plus i have no experience with the Aussie market so only hold NZ based companies and NZ owned companies,cheers

[blackcap]

I like to support kiwis with a bit of vision plus i have no experience with the Aussie market so only hold NZ based companies and NZ owned companies,cheers

You don't know what you are missing out on. Till about 10 years ago I thought like you, but since then have started buying Australian (and European) companies and have not looked back. The NZ market is soooo small, it is actually insignificant on a global scale and I believe you end up hurting your portfolio or at least cut yourself short if you stay solely in NZ. Cheers :)

[couta1]

You don't know what you are missing out on. Till about 10 years ago I thought like you, but since then have started buying Australian (and European) companies and have not looked back. The NZ market is soooo small, it is actually insignificant on a global scale and I believe you end up hurting your portfolio or at least cut yourself short if you stay solely in NZ. Cheers :)
Thanks for advice Blackcap something to start looking into next year, thought our market was doing well compared to others but obviously im wrong there

[couta1]

I've found FTs macromaps really good for getting a concise picture of how the worlds different markets are going.

The snapshot I've attached is fTor the last year 5202 Thanks for that very interesting so were just behind the Dow but well clear of the Aussie

[okay]

I've found FTs macromaps really good for getting a concise picture of how the worlds different markets are going.

The snapshot I've attached is for the last year 5202

Nice feature that map thanks turmeric. Understand Japan's rise with abenomics, but was surprised by Norway's 50%+ gain, wow!

[silverblizzard888]

I'd say it would come down to risk and rewards. Theres definitely more rewards with SNK if it continues to do well and less risk with MBE since its already on a positive bottom line, but let me explain why I think so.

MBE current market cap around 65aud (70m NZD), 2013 revenue 12.23m aud (about 13m NZD)
SNK current market cap around 30m, 2013 revenue 3m

based on MBE's 70m they are able to start making profit of 0.39m aud, which revenue has only increased from (2013 revenue) 12.23m aud from (2012 revenue) 11.37m aud, representing 7.56% growth.

If we look at Snakk they haven't been making profit yet, but the growth rate is amazing. Figures are doubling and nearly tripling (but not quite). Given we just got the interim report that snakk is earning around 3m and in the second half they usually do more or less similar. Lets entertain a figure for the FY14 of 6m. If we go on the current trend of doubling again to 12m for FY15 then we have a more or less revenue figure of MBE. Thus a market cap of at least double its current. The fact that they are looking to expand into Asia is very positive.

Would you be happy if you could at least double your money if you waited a year?

The fact that MBE has found new contracts is very positive in them of course and the risk is lower in that sense, but they would need to go from 13m to 26m nzd in order to double, Snakk only has to go from 6m to 12m to double.

What do you choose? high risk, high reward or low risk and low to medium reward?
Absolutely up to everyone what they choose, but I would say you couldn't pick wrong, both look like winners to me, but obviously you could do better with one over the other, what one will it be?

[blocker3]

I'd say it would come down to risk and rewards. Theres definitely more rewards with SNK if it continues to do well and less risk with MBE since its already on a positive bottom line, but let me explain why I think so.

MBE current market cap around 65aud (70m NZD), 2013 revenue 12.23m aud (about 13m NZD)
SNK current market cap around 30m, 2013 revenue 3m

based on MBE's 70m they are able to start making profit of 0.39m aud, which revenue has only increased from (2013 revenue) 12.23m aud from (2012 revenue) 11.37m aud, representing 7.56% growth.

If we look at Snakk they haven't been making profit yet, but the growth rate is amazing. Figures are doubling and nearly tripling (but not quite). Given we just got the interim report that snakk is earning around 3m and in the second half they usually do more or less similar. Lets entertain a figure for the FY14 of 6m. If we go on the current trend of doubling again to 12m for FY15 then we have a more or less revenue figure of MBE. Thus a market cap of at least double its current. The fact that they are looking to expand into Asia is very positive.

Would you be happy if you could at least double your money if you waited a year?

The fact that MBE has found new contracts is very positive in them of course and the risk is lower in that sense, but they would need to go from 13m to 26m nzd in order to double, Snakk only has to go from 6m to 12m to double.

What do you choose? high risk, high reward or low risk and low to medium reward?
Absolutely up to everyone what they choose, but I would say you could pick wrong, both look like winners to me, but obviously you could do better with one over the other, what one will it be?

Good read on your post silverblizzard888. I have covered the field by owning SNK and as well as MBE, and also MKB shares. (Thanks to information passed on by moosie weeks ago in his posts) At the moment with the dollar at 0.928 the AUX market looks attractive. cheers

Discl.. also own GXL,and GEM on the AUX

[clip]

And there goes my PS4! :( hehe

[jonu]

Here comes HPF ;)

Moosie, you have the most amazing ability to read through the mists and identify exactly who is selling at any given time. Please share with us the origins of this truly extraordinary ability so that we can also do the impossible!

[Balance]

Looking like there could be some serious dumping of stock before end of the year?

No traders want to be left holding highly speculative type stocks over the quiet holiday period when anything can happen.

Better to have peace of mind and enjoy the holidays.

[Balance]

Game being played :

Seller pulls out, waiting for the bids to build up.

[Balance]

tis a good day for range trading eh Balance?

Better things to do than play the game with those who got their shares for 0.5c.

They can sell down to 5c and still make 1000%.

[blocker3]

I see that there is no trades on SNK today. This is in line with this time of year of just before Christmas with all shares slow trading .

So the big boys have elected to go and do a spot of Christmas shopping instead .Ho Ho Ho

[jonu]

Think I should clear everything up to 13 cents just for a laugh and some action today?

At least it would get the sp a little closer to your 17 by Christmas prediction.:)

[blocker3]

Think I should clear everything up to 13 cents just for a laugh and some action today?

Do it Moosie. We are all watching. It would be fun to watch.

It would rattle their smart phone alerts whilst christmas shopping.

[blocker3]

They may even then want to buy SNK shares instead of conventional presents.

[blackcap]

They may even then want to buy SNK shares instead of conventional presents.

I think "they" probably have enough already for the whole whanau including the trusts :)

[blocker3]

Selling down to 11 again with window dressing 6 minutes later back up to 12. Dont fall for it people, let the market come to you if you're buying (which I dont recommend yet)!

Good advice Moosie. You are right. There is a cat and mouse game going by someone between 11c and 12c.

[Balance]

Selling down to 11 again with window dressing 6 minutes later back up to 12. Dont fall for it people, let the market come to you if you're buying (which I dont recommend yet)!

I do not have any intention to invest in Snakk but someone should make a complaint to the NZX and FMA about this behavior.

[winner69]

Just remember the 50% fib retrace meant is 11.2 .....support if broken becomes resistance ......maybe heading to 10

[blocker3]

I do not have any intention to invest in Snakk but someone should make a complaint to the NZX and FMA about this behavior.

Ethics rings a bell here to me. However the trader is not doing any wrong that I see. It is no different to other traders dumping shares to flush out the STOP LOSSES and instantly buying at a lower price.Open to comments .Cheers

[Scottman]

Thanks for that tumeric. We will look forward to the info. Merry to you as well from all of us.

[blocker3]

Yes well done for doing the correspondence with SNK turmeric.

Merry Christmas

[ari]

Excellent synopsis moosie....next year is lining up to be a doozie...Happy New Year!

[Scottman]

Well done Moosie. Happy New Year as well.

[blocker3]

WOW.
moosie what an effort that you have put in above posting and it includes so much data and information as well. Readings like yours are so inspirational & educational to myself and others.

Well done once again.

Happy New Year

[winner69]

Moosie - well thought out post

However effort wasted as you have not put a valuation / target on SNK (in bold for better impact)

Look at STC DIL post how to move markets

[SCOTTY]

*Clinks glass with fork to get everyone's attention in room*

Well, I don't usually do this, but I guess I shall say a few words for all of us on the Boards here at Sharetrader. What a rollercoaster year all of us shareholders in Snakk have had. I'll briefly outline the highs and lows of our company for the calendar year 2013, then give you a brief, although foggy, glimpes into the future.

- Snakk listed on 6 March to much fanfare and trumpetting, not least of all done be me! We saw a 350%+ rise at the height of trading to 40 cents from a base start of 6 cents. I'm pretty sure only one ST member profited from it (and earned the well-deserved title, cajonius maximus!).
- On 11 March, the first Snakk Trustee SSH notice appeared. There were to be many more of these...
- On 25 March the company announced record-breaking revenues for the October to December 2012 quarter, with unaudited revenues increasing 210% year-on-year from $NZ686,000 to $NZ1.439 million. Revenue for the entire year to March 2012 was $NZ1.99m.
- An SPP is announced on 22 April. $2M is sought; $7.5M is given by investors, which is then scaled back to $6.5M.
- 22 May: Balance enters the fray with the ominous post: Slowly slowly and quietly quietly catchee monkey. Tickle the sp high enough over time and then, whamoo, you feed the quaking ducks. Sorenson continues to sell down as the SP nears 12 cents, the recent SPP price.
- Revenue growth continues to come in thick and fast as the company announces: revenues from March 2012 to March 2013 increasing 83% year-on-year from $1,992,958 to $3,654,346. Snakk also becomes a B-Team member, a select set of companies that have even more "Richard Branson Effect" the more morally incorruptible they become. Sorenson sells down further in disgust.
- In August, SeaDragon sells down a huge lot at and states that is looking to sell all shares for a "fair value". This appears to be 9 cents per share, followed by a tasty dish of salmon mousse. Another sell down for SeaDragon takes place on 1 November, leaving the company with 8,500,000 shares on the books. Moosie looks forward to the day this last lot is gone (which cannot be too far away). The share price begins to inexorably rise...
- On 26 August the company releases yet more good news: revenues from April-June of $1,202,464 representing a year on year increase of 116% over the corresponding quarter of last year. Trading continues to look strong for the next quarter.
- 7 November brings about a great day as Snakk Media is named the 6th fastest-growing business in New Zealand on the Deloitte Fast 50 index. Sorenson releases his final SSH 3 weeks later and is assumed to be fully out a few weeks into Decmeber.
- The company's last annoucement for the year is another stunner, reporting 147% year on year revenue growth, and
generating $3,020,596 in the first six months to 30 September 2013.
- As of 31 December 2013, I assume Snakk wil end at 12-12.5 cents. SPP long-term holders may be slightly miffed, but it is much better than holding the losses of the lowest trade at 6.7 cents earlier in the year. For traders, it has been a very good year indeed.

So, where to from here?

PROS

- Snakk is growing much faster than the sector average taken as a whole, with compund growth of 46% YoY for at least the next 5 years. 100%+ growth YoY is nothing to sneeze at, especially since revenue growth has continued at this pace at much higher revenue levels than a few years ago.
- The shareholder base is quite large and diverse for such a tiny company. 1200+ individuals signed up for the SPP alone in April. Sorenson's sell down has probably made this base much larger.
- The sector received a huge boost this year when Facebook announced massive revenue growth through mobile advertising. The ASX board exploded with the likes of MBE, MKB and MNW being taken from obscure, extremely micro-cap companies to massive valuations as the hot money piled in. These companies are still on big valuations (some rightfully so), but SNK has come nowhere close to seeing the big money chase the SP ever higher for the growth curve it is on. Will SNK be taken from the shadows or ignored again this year? This leads me onto;
- Big buyers. I saw a lot of buying at 7 cents with massive support for quite a long time. We also saw buyers willing to buy big lots of stock above 15 cents a few mere weeks ago. It appears a liking was taken to Snakk for a while with the SP being pushed to around the 8-10x PS ratio (about normal for high growth, startup tech company in the mobile ad sector).
- The possibility of Murders and Executions (I mean, Mergers and Acquisitions...). As with the dot com boom a mere 13 years ago and the birth of a new sector, smaller companies will be eaten by larger ones for very rhealthy valuations. I do not believe Snakk has enough cash in the bank to conduct a buy-out, but I do believe the company is very open to mergers. To add to this, Handley has sold companies before and knows the right price for one, so if a good offer did come from the likes of Millenial Media, Facebook, Google, or one of those previously mentioned Aussie companies, I believe he would jump on the chance.
- Expansion: the world is ripe for it. VML has expanded into the Netherlands and Indonesia. MKB is looking to takeover a large part of the US market and list on the Nasdaq. Snakk has made no secret of its idea to expand into Asia, and going upon the previous data released by them I believe India will be next for them. There is some stiff competition if they are to enter this market though, from the likes of InMobi. With a nice base of revenue and growth (I am forecasting $7M NZD FY14 for Snakk), I think we are safe at home and ready to expand outwards. Either way, we are going to have an announcement by March. As Handley likes to say, ONWARDS!

CONS

- Most specifically, our seller overhang. As stated before, SeaDragon still has a large amount of shares but, unlike Sorenson, is willing to sell off market and not destory the share price. Unfortunately, while Sorenson has disappeared, his place has been taken by HPF Investments. Although they appear to be unwilling to sell much below 12 cents, our buyers have again disappeared since they know the market will come to them. I suspect we will see a Mexican standoff at these prices until another good (or great) announcement comes through.
- The company is hard to understand if you don't know your tech speak. Many posters have tried to show how the company makes money, but few have understood. If us younger generation are finding it tough, how's it going to look for older investors that actually have the large amounts of capital?
- PR needs to improve sllightly. We want to know what companies are being signed on and how big a deal these signings are. Quarterly reports are great in that they show progress, but 3 months between announcements is too long to wait in a high-growth sector where everyone is expanding rapidly and is keen to show off the goods to bring in more investors!
- If we do have a merger or acquisition, who exactly are we bringing into our company? I am wary of this, as sharks could be lurking...
- Liabilities as a %age of revenue are growing. Around 55% at last count, up from the 40% range. Not good!

So, as all investing should be taken as, a mixed bag. I believe, however, that the pros outweigh the cons as we gear up for further growth in the future. The macro picture of world equities still favours risk-on stocks, and Snakk is definitely one of those. I feel if we can get that overhang done and dusted, expand into a massive new market, take on new opportunities with/from other companies and keep those costs done, we have a winning formula here. I hope Snakk gives XRO and PEB a run for its money this year in the SP growth stakes and that we shall never have screes of script to contend with on issues such as Sorenson ever again. I look forward to the year ahead with great pleasure, as I am sure many of you do.

Moose :)

Well done Moosie.

This would have to be the most informative posting for this stock.

Thanks very much.

All the best for 2014

Regards

[blocker3]

Well all over for the 2013 trading year on the NZ share market .

SNK finished with a late soft run at a 12.8c ( ref moosie's post above). I was short with my year ending guess of 16.0c. a few months back..... Bugger !!!!

Onwards and upwards for 2014 with SNK

Happy New Year people

Cheers :t_up:

[J R Ewing]

Someone is buying in lots upwards @ ~100,000 per go, but it definitely is not sucking in retail investors again as we all seem to have learnt from the Sorenson saga.

Am seriously concerned about the action going on here with someone blatantly window dressing the share price yet again...

What are you on about here Moosie, there is only one trade so far today, isn't there? I thought that by window dressing you meant sell a big block at say 12c, then buy a few back at a higher price and then sit with a big parcel at the ready for the next round at 12c or higher.

[J R Ewing]

It stinks of selling down hard then backing off totally to let buyers re enter with another accomplice buying lots higher up to entice them, thats what I mean. It appears to me the back room dealing hasnt stopped with Sorensons exit stage left...

I don't know how you infer all that just from the price action, but it wouldn't totally surprise me. My impression has been that the whole point is for the owners to sell off what is a start up company. Given that, I can't see a reason to invest. If I had a decent stake in a company that was about to become the next big thing, I'd be holding them so tight that you would have to prize the shares out of my dead hands to get them :)

[Balance]

I don't know how you infer all that just from the price action, but it wouldn't totally surprise me. My impression has been that the whole point is for the owners to sell off what is a start up company. Given that, I can't see a reason to invest. If I had a decent stake in a company that was about to become the next big thing, I'd be holding them so tight that you would have to prize the shares out of my dead hands to get them :)

Came across an article the other day on Derek wanting to do good with his involvement in the B Team - "the first three challenges they’ll be taking on in their united mission to change the values that drive businesses; to “prioritise people and planet alongside profit” and to move beyond the obsession with short-term growth."

Change the value that drives business?

Ever wonder how backdoor listing and allowing some to make 24,000% gain reconcile with that value?

[The Real Bud Fox]

Yes, it's all very well for Handley to be evangelical once he has made it. His quasi-biography was an ok read up until when he decided he wanted to save the planet.

As for SNK, I don't understand enough about how this explosive revenue growth is going to turn into profit but what I do know though is that in media circles, all of the talk is about mobile and tablet digital advertising.

SNK may well be a play on it being taken out aka Hyperfactory? Who knows? I think it's definitely worth a punt. Come 12 months, I would not be surprised where the stock price landed and would not be surprised if it had gone up ten-fold or become a penny-dreadful - hopefully the former of course.

[Longhaul]

Some decent volume today which is nice to see. Wonder who's buying?

In regards to Handley's involvement in the B-team, I don't see it as a negative thing. I would rather he try and "save the planet" than do nothing (as long as he doesn't take his eyes of the Snakk ball of course).

[J R Ewing]

Yes, it's all very well for Handley to be evangelical once he has made it. His quasi-biography was an ok read up until when he decided he wanted to save the planet.

As for SNK, I don't understand enough about how this explosive revenue growth is going to turn into profit but what I do know though is that in media circles, all of the talk is about mobile and tablet digital advertising.

SNK may well be a play on it being taken out aka Hyperfactory? Who knows? I think it's definitely worth a punt. Come 12 months, I would not be surprised where the stock price landed and would not be surprised if it had gone up ten-fold or become a penny-dreadful - hopefully the former of course.

If the endgame was to hope for a sale/takeover, the last thing they should have done is list the company in the meantime. It is far more complicated for any would be buyer to take over a publicly listed company in comparison with buying a private company. It also dilutes the gain for the existing (pre public listing) shareholders. And all to no purpose, they haven't raised significant funds - just a few million. Surely there are better and cheaper ways to fund a couple of years cash burn. Especially if your a high-flying entrepreneur rubbing shoulders with billionaires!

I think your best bet is to hope that Handley and Snakk are in fact obsessed with short term growth after all! I can't see the prioritise people and planet alongside profit part paying dividends for punters :)

[Balance]

Someone bought my fathers shares at 12.9 today, he is happy with his 30% gain.

I see the down seller is all too happy to dump again after 13 was hit. Careful out there in this thin market my friends...

Hmm - I thought the pros outweigh the cons per your 29th Dec posting, and the shares are there to be kept for the growth upside?

[winner69]

Hmm - I thought the pros outweigh the cons per your new year's message, and the shares are there to be kept for the growth upside?

Maybe his father has just recovered his losses from DIl balances. .....oh my god what have I said here, sorry moosie couldn't resist it

[Balance]

If the endgame was to hope for a sale/takeover, the last thing they should have done is list the company in the meantime. It is far more complicated for any would be buyer to take over a publicly listed company in comparison with buying a private company. It also dilutes the gain for the existing (pre public listing) shareholders. And all to no purpose, they haven't raised significant funds - just a few million. Surely there are better and cheaper ways to fund a couple of years cash burn. Especially if your a high-flying entrepreneur rubbing shoulders with billionaires!

I think your best bet is to hope that Handley and Snakk are in fact obsessed with short term growth after all! I can't see the prioritise people and planet alongside profit part paying dividends for punters :)

All good points, JRW.

Meanwhile, go to website of the B Team and ain't nothing happening there - a lot of bluster and hot air since Oct 2012, but not one story.

http://bteam.org/

[Balance]

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8953-Snakk/page165

Thread has gone quiet since the rah rah rah 'big announcement must be just around the corner' etc etc.

Posters care to disclose if they are holding, selling or buying?

Help the newies who got sucked in by all that rah rah rah, see?

[In4a$]

Holding with a profit, and hoping it'll at least double before year end, not because I'm greedy, just want to win the comp.

[Balance]

By end of March the newsletter said fyi. Good things take time. I personally expect one before then.

disc - still holding and accumulating

Just watch your backdoor!

[boofters]

Aye aye captain!

Holding heaps...well all of the profit made out of MHI over the last 2 years so not trivial...why?
Well the first rule of becoming wealthy is to surround yourself with wealthy people --> exactly what Heatley is doing... which I am positive increases the chances of SNK releasing a few price sensitive announcements over the next 3-6 months..I'll be out at 20....ish:cool:

[Balance]

Holding heaps...well all of the profit made out of MHI over the last 2 years so not trivial...why?
Well the first rule of becoming wealthy is to surround yourself with wealthy people --> exactly what Heatley is doing... which I am positive increases the chances of SNK releasing a few price sensitive announcements over the next 3-6 months..I'll be out at 20....ish:cool:

You mean like Eric Watson, Mark Hotchin, and Bryan Mogridge?

[Scottman]

Yes certainly disappointing turmeric. The PR leaves a lot to be desired.

[Minerbarejet]

As does the share price

[couta1]

Don't write this pup off,look what happened with Wyn this week completely hype driven on no figures at least snaak has growth figures

[Balance]

Don't write this pup off,look what happened with Wyn this week completely hype driven on no figures at least snaak has growth figures

Hype?

Huge difference between Wyn and Snk!

One came onto the market with a full prospectus and strategy. The other did a sneaky backdoor with some already sitting on 24,000% profit and ready to sell via the hype. Remember Team B?

Wyn is delivering on its prospectus strategy and announcing a pipeline of deals from highly reputable customers. The market can see its strategy being executed and future potential being realized.

Snk? Save for the rah rah rah PR and the ravings ramps of a few posters here, what has this company delivered (measured against?).

[Balance]

I think with the next announcement you're going to see much more of that hype Balance. And with the market eating up everything growth related, I wouldnt be surprised if it does a WYN and gets re-rated accordingly. Forecasted revenue and mCap do not match up when applying a PS ratio at all. When people realise this, a price correction is on the books. All it needs is one little shove which has already been hinted at.

Next announcement?

I remember all the rah rah rah from all of you posters leading to the 2 Dec announcement. It was going to be the announcement to make institutions take notice, give substance to the company's strategy etc etc - sp was going to head upwards and upwards.

Oops - sp actually went down as the announcement brought out sellers!

So what are the numbers and the strategy? A lot of hype with no substance - that's what you get with the Team B man and a sneaky backdoor.

[Balance]

I dont know why they dont forecast (bad stuff on their part), but my forecast was upped from $6.2 FY'14 to $7M+ based on growth rate. Apply a PS ratio normal of say 10 and you get $70M+ mCap. The current mCap ($33.5M) is on a PS ratio of 4.7.

WYN, with an mCap of nearly $200M and prospectus revenues of $21.5M is on a nearly fully valued PS value of 10.

However, based on growth rates and the end of "seasonality" as mentioned in the last report, I beliebe Snakk will start to be rated on an even higher ratio (most likely 12). Add in the fact they are actively looking for expansion in Asia and have a significant announcement up their sleeve and you can see that they are woefully undervalued in the current market climate.

As Peter Lynch says, when you spot a value play, you buy buy buy the sit back and wait until the market, instos, funds etc sit up and take notice. Thats when the real money flows and when you start to get rich because you recognised its potential before all yhe "smart" guys. This has happened in OZ and it will happen to SNK here soon, mark my words ;)

Yup - that's what they were saying about Plus SMS and Sealegs too.

BTW, Peter Lynch does comprehensive research and analysis on a company before he buys buys buys - especially when he is buying off from those who are making 24,000% profit from him if he buys buys buys.

[Balance]

I hate to say history repeats repeats repeats on this thread, but you can never rule it out. Thats the risk you take. However, did you not note my post last night about Derek seeking to give away ANOTHER lot of multi-million shares to a charity? Hardly seems like the guy thats going to fleece the NZ market eh? Your rep would never recover from that one, andwe all know he banks on that to a huge degree!

Please refer us to the link of his first multi-million dollar donation to charity again. Thx.

Means bugger all save good hype (again!) and PR (Team B again!) - unless the charities have full rights to the shares and can sell as they want. Also, what is he actually gifting - shares he received for less than 0.5c per share!

Look at the generous donation of shares by Tony Falkenstein of JWI to schools and universities. They have received zero benefits from the shares.

The backdoor listing and his 'naivety' in allowing the promotors to sell as they like within months of the backdoor listing tells me plenty about the Team B man.

Time for him to show substance, not hype.

"Where's the Beef?"

[JohnnyTheHorse]

P/S of 10 for a marketing company? You sure? Hmm... I think I need to start a loss making marketing company.

[winner69]

P/S of 10 for a marketing company? You sure? Hmm... I think I need to start a loss making marketing company.

Come on now Johnny, you know SNK is more than a marketing company

It uses technology so must be a technology company .....and a high growth one at that

[baller18]

My friend moosie, go easy with the phrase "mark my words" as I remember, you said something like that with Dil as well? lol :P

[winner69]

I dont know why they dont forecast (bad stuff on their part), but my forecast was upped from $6.2 FY'14 to $7M+ based on growth rate. Apply a PS ratio normal of say 10 and you get $70M+ mCap. The current mCap ($33.5M) is on a PS ratio of 4.7.

WYN, with an mCap of nearly $200M and prospectus revenues of $21.5M is on a nearly fully valued PS value of 10.

However, based on growth rates and the end of "seasonality" as mentioned in the last report, I beliebe Snakk will start to be rated on an even higher ratio (most likely 12). Add in the fact they are actively looking for expansion in Asia and have a significant announcement up their sleeve and you can see that they are woefully undervalued in the current market climate.

As Peter Lynch says, when you spot a value play, you buy buy buy the sit back and wait until the market, instos, funds etc sit up and take notice. Thats when the real money flows and when you start to get rich because you recognised its potential before all yhe "smart" guys. This has happened in OZ and it will happen to SNK here soon, mark my words ;)

You fought up your hero Peter Lynch.

Chapter 9 Intelligent Investor -

First, avoid hot stocks. “If I could avoid a single stock it would be the one in the hottest industry, the one that gets the most publicity, the one that every investor hears about it in the car pool or on the commuter train, and — succumbing to the social pressure — often buys,” writes Lynch. “Hot stocks can go up fast, usually out of sight of any of the known landmarks of value, but since there’s nothing but hope and thin air to support them, they fall just as quickly,” he continues.

Second, avoid the stocks of companies that have been singled out as the next big thing: the next Google, the next Apple, the next Disney. “In my experience the next of something never is – on Broadway, the best-seller list, the National Basketball Association, or Wall Street,” writes Lynch. “In fact, when people tout a stock as the next something, it often marks the end of prosperity not only for the imitator but also for the original to which it is being compared”


Maybe Peter would not even be looking

[Scottman]

Yes advertising in this new domain of tablets , iphones etc is going to be interesting. There certainly will be some winners further down the road.

[Balance]

Winner, beyond ST and certain circles no one knows of Snakk. Do you hear taxi drivers pumping Snakk over Xero? me thinks not. The stock hasnt even soared yet (except maybe the first day). is it a totally insane valuation? Not even close. To me its undervalued.

There is no brokerage cover as well. Remember that quote on the first day of trading from a prominent broker "we have no idea what Snakk does". They are just coming on line for Xero! Says it all really (at least in NZ)...

And what exactly is Snakk going to be the next of? Facebook? Hand me another Tui! Fact is this sector is so new there is no leader yet. Snakk could be the next Snakk in that regard then, no?

Someone is selling shares for 24,000% profit shortly after the listing.

No hype? No overvaluation?

A pig just flew by my window!

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Come on now Johnny, you know SNK is more than a marketing company

It uses technology so must be a technology company .....and a high growth one at that

Fish and chip shop down the road has one of those electronic till things, never realised it was a technology company. Tempted to talk to the owners and throw in a lowball offer... maybe 7-8 times sales?

[jonu]

Handley may be young and naive



Moosie I don't think there is too much in the way of naiviette about Mr Handley.

I don't know if I could say the same of some of his investors/supporters. Mr Handley would appear to be following a well thought through strategy involving cult of personality and PR in my view. He is certainly a charismatic character.

[Balance]

Moosie I don't think there is too much in the way of naiviette about Mr Handley.

I don't know if I could say the same of some of his investors/supporters. Mr Handley would appear to be following a well thought through strategy involving cult of personality and PR in my view. He is certainly a charismatic character.

He has learnt from past masters of the game - Eric Watson, Colin Reynolds etc etc.

Do you know that he proudly proclaims Snakk to be one of the new generation Team B type company?

What is a Team B company?

"Our mission is to deliver a ‘Plan B’ that puts people and planet alongside profit. Plan A — where companies have been driven by the profit motive alone — is no longer acceptable."

I am missing something here with this backdoor listed minimal information 24,000% profit for the promotors company.

[robbo24]

I am missing something here with this backdoor listed minimal information 24,000% profit for the promotors company.

SNK wasn't about the profit, Balance, SNK was about the greater good. The necessity of getting capital together to put people alongside profit. Those who paid the 24,000% will be martyrs in the pages of history. Remembered fro generations to come as the trailblazers who helped continue the altruistic legacy of Handley and Sorenson and the other heroes of our generation.

[Balance]

SNK wasn't about the profit, Balance, SNK was about the greater good. The necessity of getting capital together to put people alongside profit. Those who paid the 24,000% will be martyrs in the pages of history. Remembered fro generations to come as the trailblazers who helped continue the altruistic legacy of Handley and Sorenson and the other heroes of our generation.

Thanks for the best laugh I have had this week.

Good one!

[Longhaul]

Alrighty, I'll stop here. Thanks to all and sundry for comments, they are all well noted and taken onboard. knowledge is power :)

Moosie, haters gonna hate. Time will show all who was right. I think we would all agree that we wouldn't bet the house on SNK but there's a lot of potential and I believe Handley has his heart in the right place. Perhaps that's because I'm too young to be cynical or young enough to be naive. Personally I'm looking forward to the next six months.

[mrjeems]

In any investment people always warn against the "hype" - but it feels like the hype on ST is always earlier than the real public hype.
So when is hype hype, and when is it just intelligent investors doing their research and then publicly believing in their investment?

Anyway, as Longhaul said - time will tell. Everyone wins some and loses some.

[Balance]

In any investment people always warn against the "hype" - but it feels like the hype on ST is always earlier than the real public hype.
So when is hype hype, and when is it just intelligent investors doing their research and then publicly believing in their investment?

Anyway, as Longhaul said - time will tell. Everyone wins some and loses some.

Time will tell with just about everything.

Surely the whole idea of investing wisely is to assess all the available information at a point in time and try to make sure time delivers the right positive results!

Time has already shown us that overwhelmingly, the vast majority of backdoor listings do not deliver positive results.

Why? Lack of transparency, uneven playing field etc.

[winner69]

I make widgets and just released a beaut model that the young ones will just love. I put $200k aside for a marketing launch. I want to show how beaut this new widget is by having videos etc and I want to interact somehow with potential buyers of this beaut new widget, maybe giving them a evoucher or something that gives them a discount or something

Right - Di I just tell my advertising agency Clemengers BBDO the brief and let them get on with it?

Or do just give Snakk a buzz and let them do the lot - concept, creative and execution?

Or is it a joint effort?

And if Snakk get involved one way or the other how much of the $200k ends up in their coffers?

One dai I will understand the value drivers of these mobile marketers. This might help that journey

[blocker3]

Time will tell with just about everything.

Surely the whole idea of investing wisely is to assess all the available information at a point in time and try to make sure time delivers the right positive results!

Time has already shown us that overwhelmingly, the vast majority of backdoor listings do not deliver positive results.

Why? Lack of transparency, uneven playing field etc.
I was under the impression Balance that the topic regarding "Back door listing" was a conversation that was thrashed out in all 2013 blogs and is"well done and dusted now".

Can I suggest that we all move onto a fresh conversation please?

[baller18]

At the time when I posted MBE vs SNK, MBE was at 20 cents, now its at 33cents...

As mentioned earlier, MBE has lower risk and higher returns...

Time will tell... :D

[winner69]

I remember nearly buying MBE at 3 cents! GOSH! :O

Just before that you (and maybe others) convinced me MBE was prob a safer bet than SNK so bought sub 3 ...thanks moosie

[Balance]

At the time when I posted MBE vs SNK, MBE was at 20 cents, now its at 33cents...

As mentioned earlier, MBE has lower risk and higher returns...

Time will tell... :D

Exactly - the way that some posters talk up Snakk here, Snakk is the only company with expertise in this industry.

Fact is that Snakk is the only listed player on the NZX in this sector but there are many more other players out there.

Do a comparison of this backdoor listed start-up player versus MBE in the first instance - purely from an information flow perspective, and it's chalk and cheese.

Time will tell ...indeed! :D :D :D

[bull....]

lots of overhang still with this baby, although i notice similar companies on asx mbe, adj doing nicely

[jonu]

The "transfers" to the charitable trust. Is it a straight donation, or has he simply sold them his shares?

[jonu]

Told ya so:

https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3527679

tis a straight donation, otherwise it wouldn't be classified as charitable!

A charitable trust can still buy things Moosie. There was no use of the word donation. Good on him if it is, I just don't think it is clear.

[bull....]

good on him giving to charity , so around 3 mil to offload from his holding + the other large holders to go to

[jonu]

good on him giving to charity , so around 3 mil to offload from his holding + the other large holders to go to

But did he "give" to the charity? It says "transferred".

[jonu]

Hi everyone

I have booked out the Cabana bar for us at Windsor Castle, Parnell on Wednesday, 29 January starting at 7:30pm. There is no set menu or charge so feel free to mosey on in and meet some of your fellow ST membets!

Address is 144 Parnell Road, Parnell, Auckland. Phone number is 09 356 3650.

If I could get a show of hands for people more than likely to make it I would be eternally grateful as I have only booked half the place as I said 15 to 20 people. if there are more I need to book the entire place!

Cheers, and look forward to meeting you all soon!

Moose

I think there is a "sticky" for that Moosie

[robbo24]

A charitable trust can still buy things Moosie. There was no use of the word donation. Good on him if it is, I just don't think it is clear.

If it is transferred to a charitable trust then when that trust is wound up then the trust property is returned to the settlor...

Love to know more about the details of the charitable organizations.

I could make a charitable trust for stray cats on my street, who wants to pay money to it???

[jonu]

If it is transferred to a charitable trust then when that trust is wound up then the trust property is returned to the settlor...

Love to know more about the details of the charitable organizations.

I could make a charitable trust for stray cats on my street, who wants to pay money to it???

You're thinking a couple of steps ahead of me here Robbo, but I think we are heading in the same direction.

If you are going to donate to something you can do it quietly. Or you could make a lot of noise and "transfer" to a charitable trust. I'm not sure what is going on here, but if it was a straight donation-why not say so?

[Harvey Specter]

If it is transferred to a charitable trust then when that trust is wound up then the trust property is returned to the settlor...

Love to know more about the details of the charitable organizations.

I could make a charitable trust for stray cats on my street, who wants to pay money to it???if it is a true charitable trust, then both the capital and income MUST go to the charitable purpose. The capital is not returned to the settlor, nor can he be a beneficiary.

[jonu]

Man you guys are scathing no matter what! The man donated some shares in a growing company that will keep accruing in value (hopefully!). Handley has always stated he is committed to his charities. be glad there are still people like this left in the world!

He had to announce this because it affects his shareholding significantly. If not a gossip column would have started saying "why is Handley selling? Sell sell sell!"

Moosie you are missing the point. Where does it say he "donated" anything?

[jonu]

if it is a true charitable trust, then both the capital and income MUST go to the charitable purpose. The capital is not returned to the settlor, nor can he be a beneficiary.

It appears to be a Foundation. I don't know if it is governed by the same rules as a Trust.

[Balance]

Man you guys are scathing no matter what! The man donated some shares in a growing company that will keep accruing in value (hopefully!). Handley has always stated he is committed to his charities. be glad there are still people like this left in the world!

He had to announce this because it affects his shareholding significantly. If not a gossip column would have started saying "why is Handley selling? Sell sell sell!"

Precisely - WHY is Derek SELLING????

Read the announcement carefully.

"Details of transactions and events giving rise to relevant event
2,000,000 shares were transferred to the Handley Foundation and a further 1,466,187 shares were sold on market during December 2013. The effect was to see a reduction in the substantial holding in the ordinary shares held."

He sold shares on market.

"In addition, Derek has indicated to the Snakk Board that he has begun to transfer approximately 10% of his Snakk holdings (as at January 2014) to The Handley Foundation, a range of other charities and private placements to investors through a combination of on and off-market transfers."

He intends to sell more shares on the market - another 4.1m shares, less an undefined number to go to charity.

Taking a guess, it will be another 500,000 shares to charity and 3.6m shares into Derek's pockets.

Nice 24,000 % profit, less than a year after the BACKDOOR listing.

Careful you are not being used, Moose, as I think you clearly are.

[robbo24]

if it is a true charitable trust, then both the capital and income MUST go to the charitable purpose. The capital is not returned to the settlor, nor can he be a beneficiary.

Where property is given on trust for a particular charity which ceases to exist before the testator's death the trust may be treated in the same way as a private trust.

Besides, if I transfer my shares to the Robbo24 Foundation then as a prudent trustee (or whatever is my role in the Robbo24 Foundation) I may find myself in a position to invest the income or capital from those shares in my next wacky adventure.

At the end of the day, I agree with Balance.

If he's not donating the shares to the Red Cross or the SPCA or the Sallies, I don't want to know about it.

[jonu]

Hey Moosie, given that you had the inside goss on this, any truth to the rumour you were one of the "private placements"?

[robbo24]

Hey Moosie, given that you had the inside goss on this, any truth to the rumour you were one of the "private placements"?

That's a slippery slope right there!

[winner69]

A noble cause that Handley Foundation

From the Trust Deed purpose shown below

[robbo24]

A noble cause that Handley Foundation

From the Trust Deed purpose shown below

I thought this was it:
5307

[winner69]

I take it that the Handley Foundation can monetise these shares that have been transferred in the Trust at any time they desire

[robbo24]

I take it that the Handley Foundation can monetise these shares that have been transferred in the Trust at any time they desire

There's a few ins-and-outs with that winner69.

Is this the same Handley Foundation that was de-registered as a charity (http://www.register.charities.govt.nz/CharitiesRegister/ViewCharity?accountId=dee6efe8-8e93-df11-871d-00155d741101&searchId=cfa094cd-18e1-4fb1-9ed7-fd7eeff19f81) under section 31 of the Charities Act 2005 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0039/latest/DLM345049.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_charities+act_resel_25_a&p=1)?

I guess Derek Handley and Maya Jane Villiger (the Trustees) decided they didn't want all to be registered as a charity anymore.

No bother though, Trustees must invest prudently (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1956/0061/latest/DLM305065.html).

Prudently, in the context of the First Schedule of the Handley Foundation trust deed which allows for:

Raising funds (cl 1);
Investing (even where return may be lower than alternative investments) (cl2-2.5);
Retain any investments coming into the Trustees hands as part of the trust fund for as long as the trustees think proper, even if they are not investments which could be properly made by a trustee (cl 3).
To sell on terms the trustee thinks fit (including installments, and as we see later, to waive debt) (cl 4)
To postpone sale of any property without being liable for any resultant loss to the Trust Fund (cl 5)
To let property (cl 6)
To borrow at whatever rate of interest the trustees think fit (cl 7)
To carry on business anywhere in the world and to employ staff, but its ok because the trustees are indemnified for any losses of the business but they can distribute the income before making good the debts of the business (cl 8-8.3)
To accept payment in company securities (cl 9)
To establish or promote a company (cl 10)
To act in relation to certian companies - if the trust fund owns a company then the trustees can receive and retain fees without account to the trust fund (cl 11-11.2)
To make loans (cl 17)
To waive debts (cl 23)

I could go on - but in amongst all of this I am sure that the trustees of the Handley Foundation will use the SNK shares in a prudent way in accordance with their obligations under the Trustee Act.

[Harvey Specter]

I take it that the Handley Foundation can monetise these shares that have been transferred in the Trust at any time they desirei'd say so. As a non dividend paying share, they are worth nothing to the foundation if they can't.

[blackcap]

There's a few ins-and-outs with that winner69.



I could go on - but in amongst all of this I am sure that the trustees of the Handley Foundation will use the SNK shares in a prudent way in accordance with their obligations under the Trustee Act.

And that would be selling these shares to realise huge profits? :)

[winner69]

There's a few ins-and-outs with that winner69.

Is this the same Handley Foundation that was de-registered as a charity (http://www.register.charities.govt.nz/CharitiesRegister/ViewCharity?accountId=dee6efe8-8e93-df11-871d-00155d741101&searchId=cfa094cd-18e1-4fb1-9ed7-fd7eeff19f81) under section 31 of the Charities Act 2005 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0039/latest/DLM345049.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%4 0deemedreg_charities+act_resel_25_a&p=1)?

I guess Derek Handley and Maya Jane Villiger (the Trustees) decided they didn't want all to be registered as a charity anymore.

No bother though, Trustees must invest prudently (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1956/0061/latest/DLM305065.html).

Prudently, in the context of the First Schedule of the Handley Foundation trust deed which allows for:

Raising funds (cl 1);
Investing (even where return may be lower than alternative investments) (cl2-2.5);
Retain any investments coming into the Trustees hands as part of the trust fund for as long as the trustees think proper, even if they are not investments which could be properly made by a trustee (cl 3).
To sell on terms the trustee thinks fit (including installments, and as we see later, to waive debt) (cl 4)
To postpone sale of any property without being liable for any resultant loss to the Trust Fund (cl 5)
To let property (cl 6)
To borrow at whatever rate of interest the trustees think fit (cl 7)
To carry on business anywhere in the world and to employ staff, but its ok because the trustees are indemnified for any losses of the business but they can distribute the income before making good the debts of the business (cl 8-8.3)
To accept payment in company securities (cl 9)
To establish or promote a company (cl 10)
To act in relation to certian companies - if the trust fund owns a company then the trustees can receive and retain fees without account to the trust fund (cl 11-11.2)
To make loans (cl 17)
To waive debts (cl 23)

I could go on - but in amongst all of this I am sure that the trustees of the Handley Foundation will use the SNK shares in a prudent way in accordance with their obligations under the Trustee Act.

So still registered as a Society ( http://www.societies.govt.nz ) but just not a Charitable one?

Not really knowing how these things work but only seem to be deregistered from a list of Charities

[Balance]

So Derek sold shares in December.

Why wasn't that disclosed to the market until 13 January?

[winner69]

So Derek sold shares in December.

Why wasn't that disclosed to the market until 13 January?

Usually 5days eh

But those who file SSH notices are exempt from the ongoing disclosure rules. It w a SSH that was filed today though the relevant event was Dec 9th it says

This notice coved his previous donations as well I think as the reduction in shares is 5 mill odd

[bull....]

So all substantial s/h are selling ( was probably there exit strategy on listing ) so overhang rough guesstimate 36 mil to go at average 193000 shares per day = 6 mths but probably not active every day so 1 year should get rid of most overhang? unless you get some massive volume days which would speed up the process

[Harvey Specter]

So all substantial s/h are selling ( was probably there exit strategy on listing ) so overhang rough guesstimate 36 mil to go at average 193000 shares per day = 6 mths but probably not active every day so 1 year should get rid of most overhang? unless you get some massive volume days which would speed up the processIt wont necessarily go like this. If they can get a few runs on the board, then the big boys can do placements to institutions (eg. 5m shares would be a small placement to the likes of Milford).

[Harvey Specter]

Where property is given on trust for a particular charity which ceases to exist before the testator's death the trust may be treated in the same way as a private trust.

Besides, if I transfer my shares to the Robbo24 Foundation then as a prudent trustee (or whatever is my role in the Robbo24 Foundation) I may find myself in a position to invest the income or capital from those shares in my next wacky adventure. The deed specifically says both income and capital must go to the purposes of the trust. Likewise, on winding up, the remainer must go to a charitable purpose.

THe Trustees can receive an income so that is one way to extract money from it.

Interesting that they have lost charitable status as that means you lose the tax benefits - no income tax and donations are deductible.

[Harvey Specter]

So why is Derek selling?I can understand the transfer to the foundation but why is he selling on market. Surely he didn't need the money!

Moosie - no wonder he didn't want to give a warning to Sorenson - he wanted to sell onmarket himself!

[robbo24]

The deed specifically says both income and capital must go to the purposes of the trust. Likewise, on winding up, the remainer must go to a charitable purpose.

THe Trustees can receive an income so that is one way to extract money from it.

Interesting that they have lost charitable status as that means you lose the tax benefits - no income tax and donations are deductible.

It's still a charitable trust registered as an incorporated society. It's just not on the charities register.

There is no information about the instrument which transferred the SNK shares from Derek's personal account to Derek and others as trustees, so the trust deed isn't what to look for. There may be a separate instrument that sets out different terms.

[Harvey Specter]

It's still a charitable trust registered as an incorporated society. It's just not on the charities register.But without being on the charities register, they lose the benefits of being a charity. Thats why Greenpeace went to court when they lost their status.


There is no information about the instrument which transferred the SNK shares from Derek's personal account to Derek and others as trustees, so the trust deed isn't what to look for. There may be a separate instrument that sets out different terms.I think it would have to have been an outright gift as no prudent trust would invest that much in Snakk (unless it already has a huge investment fund) but once they have received the gift, I think the trust rules allows them to retain it.

[Balance]

Snakk is a backdoor job - you guys seriously expect transparency from the company?

So why is Derek selling? Does he need the money - around $200K? (Hang on, he just made a killing on the listing of Twitter the month before?)

And notice his selling is in December after the hyped up quarterly sales report?

[jonu]

Are you accumulating on the dip Moosie, or do you see it as more than that?

[goldfish]

I gotta say i have lost all respect for derek after all this...very much the sneaky hippocrite..not that he could care less though.

[jonu]

Snakk is a backdoor job - you guys seriously expect transparency from the company?

So why is Derek selling? Does he need the money - around $200K? (Hang on, he just made a killing on the listing of Twitter the month before?)

And notice his selling is in December after the hyped up quarterly sales report?

At the very time some on this thread were blaming Sorenson for flooding the market, it could well have been the chair of the board!

[goldfish]

I think it was both of them, but one wasnt blaming other shareholders for flooding the market at the same time as he was, while making a nice profit while saying people before profit...for shame.

[couta1]

Not accumulating, pulled my 12 cent bid today. See more weakness short-term as the market digests this.
Keep the faith Moosie,can't deny the potential here no matter what anyone says

[jonu]

Still have faith, just trying to get a barhain ;)

This Snack has turned into a moveable feast Moosie. At what price do you perceive it to be a bargain? It's 11 at time of writing.

[bull....]

market doesnt like the message it sends when the main man of the company is ditching such a big chunk

[Dentie]

Snakk is a backdoor job - you guys seriously expect transparency from the company?

So why is Derek selling? Does he need the money - around $200K? (Hang on, he just made a killing on the listing of Twitter the month before?)

And notice his selling is in December after the hyped up quarterly sales report?

Gee, where did you dig up that snapshot (snakkshot?) of Mr H. Balance? It's like "butter wouldn't melt" and a sort of smugly type of "hah - you don't know what I know" message all in the same photo.

Meanwhile, the stampede (out the back door) continues ......

[Balance]

Gee, where did you dig up that snapshot (snakkshot?) of Mr H. Balance? It's like "butter wouldn't melt" and a sort of smugly type of "hah - you don't know what I know" message all in the same photo.

Meanwhile, the stampede (out the back door) continues ......

And a few lining up to the tunes of Britney's "Baby, Hit me one more time".

[Balance]

As I've said before, there's a few big buyers in the market for these shares who are averaging up/down.

Why bother? They can simply take a placement off SeaDragon, Handley or Sorehead.

Question - If Snakk is so great, why is Derek selling? And selling snakkily?

[Balance]

He's a sneaky snake slinking sneakily around snapping up snakks at a super stupendously silly rate!

Here's Derek looking at his mobile and counting the 24,000% profit he just made on selling the Snakk shares (snakkily).

Makes the 500% he made on Twitter look like a pittance?

[J R Ewing]

Valuations. Why is 10x sales sensible? To me, that seems like measuring success on the rugby field just by reporting points scored. Did the Blues do well this weekend if they scored 23? How should we value that performance?

[Casino]

Valuations. Why is 10x sales sensible? To me, that seems like measuring success on the rugby field just by reporting points scored. Did the Blues do well this weekend if they scored 23? How should we value that performance?

I think it's 'rational' if you buy several companies across a high growth sector. In the long run, the good stocks will make up for the ones that flame.

[Balance]

Balance, his shares were bought at 5 cents, not 0.9, or the last time!

(sorry I'm a stickler for getting stuff correct)

Moosie, check the facts properly - the shares were issued to him at 5c but the real cost of entry to him is 0.5c, according to my analysis.

Why? Because he transferred assets worth 0.5c into Snakk for 5c.

[Balance]

in itself, price/sales ratios are useful for comparisons in establishing price rationality.

If a company is trading at 10x revenue in an industry where comparable businesses are trading at 12-13x revenue, then there might be scope for your company to appreciate in price like its peers.

Obviously, a business like Snakk which doesn't make profit (the ultimate barometer of company success), price/sales is one of the more easier to understand metrics.

More complex metrics include churn rates, ARPU, MRR and Months:CAC

Remember the dotcom boom of 2000? Analysts could not figure out how to value these dotcom type companies so they came up with 'new techniques' like P/Sales ratio etc etc.

All came a cropper but a new generation of investors are eagerly embracing the 'new techniques'!

[Harvey Specter]

Remember the dotcom boom of 2000? Analysts could not figure out how to value these dotcom type companies so they came up with 'new techniques' like P/Sales ratio etc etc.THe dotcom boom was based/valued on 'clicks'.

This time around it is different ;) It is based on revenue multiples. However, this is not the full story as Sparky points out. P/S only work where there is growth, that growth is being retained and the cost of acquistion is low. THe idea being is that once you taper of your growth strategy, the cash will start poring in the door. As Casino points out, this is a risky strategy as it assumes the company can get to a certain market share but, in theory, the multiples should also factor in not every company succeeding. Definitely don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Balance - Have you ever been invested in SkyTV, particularly the early days when it was not profitable but was growing substantially - how was that valued?

[Balance]

You will note my emphasis on the word profit.... :-)

I personally struggle to understand the interest in Snakk, but I wish investors all the best.

STC, we have seen all this before, haven't we?

Newies make money in a bull (maybe illogical) phase of a market sector and become hooked - ignoring everything else save what they want to read.

To be blunt (and frank), and I hope Moose takes it the right way, look at how taken Moose was by the 'donation' to the trust by Handley - to the extent of reading the SSH notice but completely ignoring the fact that his hero, Derek, actually sold shares!*

Anyway, such is life and we all learn as we go along. Better to learn from the bad experiences of others than to learn the hard way ourselves!

[couta1]

I guess a lot of people are only taking a small punt on this one for me its only 0.5% of my portfolio total so worth seeing where it goes to, this thread certainly gets a massive amount of attention for a share trading at around 12c

[Balance]

I guess a lot of people are only taking a small punt on this one for me its only 0.5% of my portfolio total so worth seeing where it goes to, this thread certainly gets a massive amount of attention for a share trading at around 12c

It's the postings of a few (especially those with vested interest) but reef fishes are always attracted by activity.

All good but newies beware.

Reef fishes so gathered get eaten by bigger fishes, sharks and sea snakks.

[Longhaul]

Would be good to see more discussion of revenue/expenses, market size and all those other good things that help us understand the potential (aside from the gossip and slander of people). This company is in a fast growing market and has demonstrated good growth. If they can keep this up and keep expenses in check then a market cap of $30 million might seem low in a year.

Getting really bored of all the posts that have nothing new to contribute.

[Balance]

Would be good to see more discussion of revenue/expenses, market size and all those other good things that help us understand the potential (aside from the gossip and slander of people). This company is in a fast growing market and has demonstrated good growth. If they can keep this up and keep expenses in check then a market cap of $30 million might seem low in a year.

Getting really bored of all the posts that have nothing new to contribute.

Two things, Longhaul -

1. Let's see you come up with something new, rather than just your ramp without substance.

2. A discussion on Handley selling is now new? Or a case of you choosing to ignore the obvious implications of a founder/promotor selling?

[winner69]

I don't disagree with you Longhaul, in that some things receive disproportionately more attention than others on this thread.

However at the risk of pointing out the obvious, all SNK's shareholders have the same chance as any to post their analysis and initiate discussions on the very topics you mention. If you take the time to read the 222 pages on this thread you will note that bugger all has been posted of this nature. I have tried on multiple occasions to pose questions to shareholders and others about revenue, the technology SNK employs, their comparative advantages and almost never get anything back. I would encourage the likes of yourself and others who are fed up with the direction this thread has taken and change it's course. But 222 pages suggests there is almost no-one who is either willing to take the time do this OR maybe even have the required knowledge of this company to be able to do this.

Not having a go at you in particular mate, but I just don't get why the shareholders of SNK aren't getting amongst this thread and changing it's course? Let's see some quality analysis :)

Agree mate.

Like I want to understand SNK et all and find out what the drivers of their sales/revenues really are (don't understand MBE either)

Posed the hypothetical question that if I spent $200k on a mobile campaign and if SNK got involved how much of the $200k would end up in SNKs coffers.

Silence - assume nobody here knows

Maybe SNK is just three letters listed on a hic exchange and just a plaything for punters who only about a price ....just like taking #1 in Race 7 at Taranaki tomorrow (PERCY)

Like you turmeric I think nobody really knows how SNK works

Omg what have I said here

[couta1]

Two things, Longhaul -

1. Let's see you come up with something new, rather than just your ramp without substance.

2. A discussion on Handley selling is now new? Or a case of you choosing to ignore the obvious implications of a founder/promotor selling?
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware Handley has nothing to do with the daily running of this company or how much profit it will eventually make so him selling shares however he chooses to do it is relatively unimportant to the ultimate share price or profits of this company

[Balance]

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware Handley has nothing to do with the daily running of this company or how much profit it will eventually make so him selling shares however he chooses to do it is relatively unimportant to the ultimate share price or profits of this company

Pull the other leg, will you?

[winner69]

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware Handley has nothing to do with the daily running of this company or how much profit it will eventually make so him selling shares however he chooses to do it is relatively unimportant to the ultimate share price or profits of this company

So SNK could save some cash and not worry about having a Chairman of the Board

[couta1]

Pull the other leg, will you?
This was actually a genuine thought I mean with all that Handleys got going on elsewhere is the ultimate success or failure of this company dependent in any significant way on Handley and his share selling when he's got other seemingly competent people running the company

[Balance]

This was actually a genuine thought I mean with all that Handleys got going on elsewhere is the ultimate success or failure of this company dependent in any significant way on Handley and his share selling when he's got other seemingly competent people running the company

You will find that institutional, professional and fund investors watch this very closely.

The reasons are obvious - especially in a start-up company like Snakk where the promotors got their shares for bugger all after selling the hype to those who chose to believe.

Comes down to conviction and commitment.

If the Chairman and other directors are quick to sell and take their gains, why do you want to be the sucker who believe their hype and buy from them?

[couta1]

You will find that institutional, professional and fund investors watch this very closely.

The reasons are obvious - especially in a start-up company like Snakk where the promotors got their shares for bugger all after selling the hype to those who chose to believe.

Comes down to conviction and commitment.

If the Chairman and other directors are quick to sell and take their gains, why do you want to be the sucker who believe their hype and buy from them?
Cheers balance

[Longhaul]

Agree mate.

Like I want to understand SNK et all and find out what the drivers of their sales/revenues really are (don't understand MBE either)

Posed the hypothetical question that if I spent $200k on a mobile campaign and if SNK got involved how much of the $200k would end up in SNKs coffers.

Silence - assume nobody here knows

Maybe SNK is just three letters listed on a hic exchange and just a plaything for punters who only about a price ....just like taking #1 in Race 7 at Taranaki tomorrow (PERCY)

Like you turmeric I think nobody really knows how SNK works

Omg what have I said here

Figuring out what proportion they keep of the $200k would be difficult...

From what I can tell Snakk does the usual agency stuff, creating mobile-centric advertising campaigns, apps and mobile sites. It sounds like they also take care of the buying or placement (normally done by a media agency who takes a cut). The interesting thing about Snakk (this is only my understanding) is that they are also a taking on the role of a publisher or at least an aggregator of publishing networks so they control the placement of their clients campaigns on these networks (again cutting out an intermediary) and on other networks that they would have to pay Snakk and the publisher to be on. If they control these other networks they would be able to sell excess inventory to other advertisers or agencies.

So the question for me is how scaleable is the revenue from the aggregation side of the business? Obviously costs rise comparatively for the normal agency work, but this other revenue stream is where the real potential is in my opinion.

If Snakk can keep up the revenue growth they have shown in Q3 and Q4 2012 (155% and 93% respectively) then full year revenue for 13/14 will be close to $8 million. If total expenses rise by the same year on year amount (I estimate 80%) then they might come in at $5.5 - $6 million, but it's likely they will be higher due to costs associated with quick growth. Extrapolate this out over another year or two and the numbers look interesting provided they can keep growing as fast as they have been (it gets exponentially harder as we know). Please point out any improvements I can make to these estimates based on the information available.

If SHs are prepared to entertain chasing growth rather than return a profit, like in the case of Xero, then it is going to be an interesting ride. If Snakk can expand into Asia or we see any indication that this might happen, then that will be a hugely positive move due to the size and growth of those markets. According to Snakk (via Gartner), mobile advertising spend in AsiaPac will increase from $US4.3 billion in 2012 to $US9.4 billion in 2016, and this is probably an under estimate.

Given Handley's success and history in the mobile space, I have no reason to doubt his judgement in this area. He was thinking about mobile advertising long before many others were.

Anyway like Couta says, most SHs probably don't have a lot to lose, but a winning bet should have a good payoff. I don't understand why people who clearly aren't interested in investing in Snakk focus so much of their time on it...