NTL - New Talisman Mine - New board & Directors

[steveb]

good post gmatt thanks.

So you reckon matt hill is sleeping nights,you have to remember at the current SP the current NTLOA options are not worth the paper they are written on

[Flugenbear]

It's got to be concerning that the share price is down at 2.2 and 2 on the ASX,.which is even below the SPP. I don't buy into the theory that people are selling at these levels to fund buying more shares at the same or even higher price. Regardless of the options attached to the SPP. I think more likely people taking profit. Don't forget that many bought into this at 0.5 of a cent just over a year ago.
If this doesn't recover at least to 2.4 and 2.2 in Aussie then the capital raise will fall flat.
Although I don't necessarily think a labour government will affect ntl, it's definitely an uncertainty and not helping.

[Flugenbear]

A very ugly close on the ASX, down to 1.7 with plenty of people wanting out.
I don't think it'll be an easy recovery back above the SPP price unless there is good news in the pipeline... I think the share price got ahead of itself and had priced in a bonanza JORC update which disappointed.

[Kay]

A very ugly close on the ASX, down to 1.7 with plenty of people wanting out.
I don't think it'll be an easy recovery back above the SPP price unless there is good news in the pipeline... I think the share price got ahead of itself and had priced in a bonanza JORC update which disappointed.

It makes you wonder what some people were expecting from bonanza!

Hopefully tumbles a little more in the next few days. 1.5c on the asx seems like a very nice place to buy back in.

[silverblizzard888]

NTL's ASX performance today is a classic example of everyone talking a good game when everything looks good, but secretly they have all been eyeing the door. After all Bonzana was the major announcement they had been waiting for and nothing else expected till November, so its not surprising many will prefer to take the money now than wait in limbo.

Management has played their cards terribly. When you call for a capital raising especially one that takes shareholders by surprises unless you deliver an incredible reason after then they've actually increased the risk of the investment by that surprise. For a stock that had a good amount of certainty regarding its path it has turned a bit south and as I said in a past post if you don't have certain then it'd still be alright if they had the cash. Though with the share price in the ASX down and a very good chance it'll scare shareholders on the NZX to sell, the share price could be lower than SPP offer price which would be a low chance to raise a good amount of capital.

[cammo]

I think the announcement of Maria quantity is actually the least interesting part of the announcement.
Ntl have got their thinking caps on and sorted out a way to get a larger quantity of ore out at a higher grade level, saving a whole lot in many areas including multiple environmental facets. They gave gauged the negative sentiment well and are looking to achieve the lowest footprint possible. Money is required, it will pay itself off well as the assayed concentrated ore can be easily sold off or refined by others as it is of a great grade. Happy to wait.

[Clints]

I think the announcement of Maria quantity is actually the least interesting part of the announcement.
Ntl have got their thinking caps on and sorted out a way to get a larger quantity of ore out at a higher grade level, saving a whole lot in many areas including multiple environmental facets. They gave gauged the negative sentiment well and are looking to achieve the lowest footprint possible. Money is required, it will pay itself off well as the assayed concentrated ore can be easily sold off or refined by others as it is of a great grade. Happy to wait.

I tend to agree - the issues I can see are as follows;

AGM on 20th
SPP Offer ends 22nd
Election 23rd - this is where investor nervousness will be, I don't think that anything will change with a labour Govt but it still spooks people.

What are they going to do to get the SP at or above the SPP offer of 2.2c before 22nd. If they don't then this falls flat an is another potential shock for the SP

Happy for anyone to poke holes in this theory.


*** Opening sell today at 2c.

[Yoda]

Things looking a little silly now on the sellers side on NZX, not a buyer in sight ...
oh here come one or 2....
ASX has good strength at .015 , so wonder what that will look like in 2 hrs time

[silverblizzard888]

1.8 cents now. Doesn't look like it will be a pleasant day. Big wall mounting at 2 cents.

[ddrone]

Only the brave buying now. If it stays at these levels (which seems likely) the SPP will fail and the SP will suffer further as a result. It also seems unlikely they have another killer announcement up their sleeves between now and then. I'm not down-ramping, I believe in the stock but short term this thing is looking pretty ropey.

[Fatboyj]

Man this is the complete opposite of how I thought this week would play out. Learning experience going on right now.

Nervous yes, selling no. I would have a sick vomit feeling if I'd taken up the spp early. Think I'll stay away from the share price for today.

Buying consideration? Not brave enough.

[whatsup]

Today I bought what I did consider good buying - at the time @ .002 for the oppies which is to my mind a better buy as it clears the election date, SPP update and keeps my options open for a late Nov decision -- I hope it works

[Yoda]

Today I bought what I did consider good buying - at the time @ .002 for the oppies which is to my mind a better buy as it clears the election date, SPP update and keeps my options open for a late Nov decision -- I hope it works
.002...... Can i get some at that price ? :p

[Ace]

When the company relies heavily on equity to raise funds - particularly when the share price gains any traction, any share of capital appreciation from growth is diminished or negated through dilution. I think that is a disservice to long term holders, to see the growth in their very company diluted every time it seems to grow. NTL started off with 82M shares at one point, how did it end up with 2b, and now potentially 3? with capital appreciation out of the question for now, it all comes down to when the gold comes out of the ground and when the green river can start flowing.

[silverblizzard888]

Really shows the ASX is the stronger market in this, initial prices rises were spurred on by the buying in the ASX and now the decline is spurred on by the ASX too. Current prices will hold for now, but NZX will look to the ASX opening to decide how this really places out today.

[Clints]

I wonder if management had any idea this would happen (to this extent)

[Leftfield]

Sad day for NTL holders and not looking good for the company going forward.

A rare red arrow for my portfolio which reminds me to dust off my rule to 'avoid mining company shares.' Trouble is that my other rule was, 'all rules are made to be broken.' Thankfully only a small holding, but I certainly won't be taking up the SPP offer.

Lessons for us all in this one. Seems the market doesn't like the opportunistic nature, (and dilution effect) of the attempted cap raise.

[suse]

Its hard to watch this and I absolutely hate the red arrow on my portfolio (because yes, I only just jumped on this bandwagon). This is a time where I think to myself, "a fool and his money are easily parted" or whatever that line is. :) Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait it out and hope for the best to get my money back at some point, which must surely happen given they reckon the gold is in them thar hills.

[Ace]

I wonder if management had any idea this would happen (to this extent)

How could they not expect that after throwing such a wild curve ball at their holders. They essentially prepared us a compliment sandwich - investor style - good news, controversial news, and finally good news. Except they forgot the sauces and they let the burger get too cold before serving it.

[digger]

Really shows the ASX is the stronger market in this, initial prices rises were spurred on by the buying in the ASX and now the decline is spurred on by the ASX too. Current prices will hold for now, but NZX will look to the ASX opening to decide how this really places out today.

Lot of good comments on this latest developments.When you say the ASX led us up now down [SB888] you are to my mind leaving out a very big development. When it was led up
Andrew Little was head of the labor party. The changes since then have somewhat spooked NTL and I believe the AUS are more onto this that NZ.
The mistake that NTL have made is having the SPP this side of the election. The number one rule of equity markets is that they do not like uncertainties. Note over many decades the American market will go up a certain % if one govt gets in and will go up almost the same % if the other party gets in. But in the meantime no one knows so uncertainty.
On the broader picture NTL must win as the world is slowly going away from Bitcoins where again today you can read on OIL .COM that the govt are moving against them. Also the world has in the last few years not replaced its gold used.
shame I will not be going to the AGM as too hard getting in and out of Auckland.Much to discuss. I really liked the idea of making the product out of the mine having more gold but if this SPP fails we should keep that open and come back to it in the future [[AFTER THE ELECTION MANAGMENT PLEASE}}

[cammo]

Im waiting for "the ore concentrator is already on the boat" announcement because that's what I would be doing...start getting your ducks lined up asap.

[BigBob]

I wonder if management had any idea this would happen (to this extent)

Although the SPP is not underwritten, I think we will see a placement to "sophisticated investors" in case they don't reach their $$ target. They have previous form...

[Fatboyj]

Is there any way the spp can be extended beyond the 22nd? That would be a smart move to get the election out of the way. I suppose when this spp listing date was thought up National were going to romp through, prior to Jacinda jumping in.

[see weed]

This takes me back to Heritage Gold days 2001-2002. Lost a bit over $7,000 that time:D.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Might see Newcrest sniffing around?.

[Fatboyj]

We got to have someone sniffing to get that gold out the ground. Gold fever has turned to drown sorrows in a bottle of jim beam fever.

[ddrone]

This is a very strange notification around exercising options "in the money" etc?

This is a reminder that your listed options expire on Nov 28, 2017.
The options are exercisable at A$0.02 per option to convert into shares. NTL
has determined that it will also accept the New Zealand dollar equivalent
payment, being $NZ0.02165 per option.
The options are currently "in the money" and NTL shares have consistently
traded in the money for several weeks.
The company currently has a share purchase plan offer underway. NTL
encourage you to exercise your options, in conjunction with the share
purchase plan and accordingly to return your option exercise form as soon as
possible and by 22 September 2017. An early exercise of options will not
affect any Share Purchase Plan entitlement. If you do not exercise your
options by 22 September, you can still exercise closer to the expiry date 28
November.
Any documentation or payment received after 28 November will not be eligible
to convert to shares as the option will have expired.
If you wish to exercise your options please complete the attached form and
return as directed on the form.

[t.rexjr]

November options "in the money' supposedly

This latest SPP might even alter their 'funded through to 2020' budget

[Leftfield]

November options "in the money' supposedly

This latest SPP might even alter their 'funded through to 2020' budget

Smacks of desperation IMHO. Not impressed. Sold my last NTL today at break even. GLH.

[Clints]

How to shave $20+mil off the value of your company.

[ddrone]

Smacks of desperation IMHO. Not impressed. Sold my last NTL today at break even. GLH.

Incredibly strange and misleading. Even if this was going out in snail mail they should know better than to represent the share price in such a firm manner.

[Clints]

Incredibly strange and misleading. Even if this was going out in snail mail they should know better than to represent the share price in such a firm manner.

Unless there is some further news that we are not aware of.

[ddrone]

Unless there is some further news that we are not aware of.

Again, misleading.

[Snow Leopard]

I love this thread :blush:.

It is real education and entertaining.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Clints]

I love this thread :blush:.

It is real education and entertaining.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

We are all running round like headless chooks :scared:

[meltical]

I love this thread :blush:.

It is real education and entertaining.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

I love your posts

real education and entertaining

[silverblizzard888]

Looks like the options aren't in the money anymore, seems NTL mangement have a problem with timing their announcements at the worse possible time. 2 for 2, will there be a third?

[HumptyDumpty]

I think Matt H and his mates are in for a flame grilling at the AGM. I hope so, seems there are a few too many unanswered questions stacking up...

[Ace]

Should have followed the maxim, buy the rumour, sell the news. I wonder how the AGM will turn out. Might make for interesting viewing.

[Bluemanarc]

Oh well I just bought my 15k of options.

But I paid 1.8c for them instead of 2.2c so I am happy :)

Time will tell but I am happy as I almost bough them at 2c :)

I am getting back in, yahoo, its play money anyway in comparison to property developing

[Bluemanarc]

Post note: option docs in the bin

Over and out till after the AGM and the Election

Lets see if that brings some certainty and a clear path ahead, but obviously at a slower rate now that the new SPP has failed.

[Dust]

Incredibly strange and misleading. Even if this was going out in snail mail they should know better than to represent the share price in such a firm manner.

Not entirely misleading as the letter is dated the 6th, annoucement delivery could be delayed at the exchange

But agree, the letter itself is very unprofessionally written...all my years of investing I've never seen "in the money" used in an official notice....

[ddrone]

In all serious, does this last announcement constitute false and misleading information? It blows my mind that they released it. Pertinent sections bolded:

This is a reminder that your listed options expire on Nov 28, 2017.
The options are exercisable at A$0.02 per option to convert into shares. NTL
has determined that it will also accept the New Zealand dollar equivalent
payment, being $NZ0.02165 per option.
*The options are currently "in the money" and NTL shares have consistently
traded in the money for several weeks.
The company currently has a share purchase plan offer underway. NTL
**encourage you to exercise your options, in conjunction with the share
purchase plan and accordingly to return your option exercise form as soon as
possible and by 22 September 2017. An early exercise of options will not
affect any Share Purchase Plan entitlement. If you do not exercise your
options by 22 September, you can still exercise closer to the expiry date 28
November.
Any documentation or payment received after 28 November will not be eligible
to convert to shares as the option will have expired.
If you wish to exercise your options please complete the attached form and
return as directed on the form.

* Factually in-correct at time of publishing. Even if this was correct isn't this mis-leading by nature of the claim given the markets are, by their very nature, volatile?
** This attempts to imply that those exercising options should do so at the same time as exercising their right to buy in the SSP thereby encouraging them to prematurely exercise their options for no other reason than postage costs at the current share price.

As I write this the SP is not 1.5c AUD, equiv to 1.7 NZD.

Disc: Former holder who did not lose their pants.

[silverblizzard888]

Don't you feel it could become a rap?

NTL NTL the time is now
You've got options, you're opportunity
Cause your 'in the money'
All that gold in the land of honey
Lets dig it up now, lets get underground
The greens got nothing on us
Cause we're NTL, NTL and the time is now
You've got options, you're opportunity
Cause you're 'in the money'

Ok perhaps I should stop lol

On a more professional note:
Announcement should have been more professional
-First rule of thumb, I find managers who talk about shares prices to be self serving, management should always refrain from discussion share price. Also don't talk about a share price exercising options when several weeks proves nothing, if it was several months that would be a bit more different.
-Use of 'in the money' was too casual
-Their encouraging plead sounds desparate
-Lastly the announcement was border lining on unnecessary, all it should have been was two sentences giving option holders a reminder.

[Dust]

In all serious, does this last announcement constitute false and misleading information? It blows my mind that they released it. Pertinent sections bolded:

This is a reminder that your listed options expire on Nov 28, 2017.
The options are exercisable at A$0.02 per option to convert into shares. NTL
has determined that it will also accept the New Zealand dollar equivalent
payment, being $NZ0.02165 per option.
*The options are currently "in the money" and NTL shares have consistently
traded in the money for several weeks.
The company currently has a share purchase plan offer underway. NTL
**encourage you to exercise your options, in conjunction with the share
purchase plan and accordingly to return your option exercise form as soon as
possible and by 22 September 2017. An early exercise of options will not
affect any Share Purchase Plan entitlement. If you do not exercise your
options by 22 September, you can still exercise closer to the expiry date 28
November.
Any documentation or payment received after 28 November will not be eligible
to convert to shares as the option will have expired.
If you wish to exercise your options please complete the attached form and
return as directed on the form.

* Factually in-correct at time of publishing. Even if this was correct isn't this mis-leading by nature of the claim given the markets are, by their very nature, volatile?
** This attempts to imply that those exercising options should do so at the same time as exercising their right to buy in the SSP thereby encouraging them to prematurely exercise their options for no other reason than postage costs at the current share price.

As I write this the SP is not 1.5c AUD, equiv to 1.7 NZD.

Disc: Former holder who did not lose their pants.


The "we encourage you to excercise your options" is a nice touch that leaves a poor taste in my mouth frankly. Last time I heard that was when someone tried to sell me pyramid schemes.

Misinformation aside, the coercively worded letter is just appalling, screams desperation.... hats off to the lads who ran out the door while it was "in the money"

[Beagle]

Possibly an appropriate time to roll out the hounds theory on N.Z. mining minnows.
This jaundiced dog that's been bitten before reckons the big dog's like BHP and the secondary majors on the ASX get the best geologists, engineers and related experts and Kiwi mining minnows get nothing but the leftover scraps. Why would any one that was really good in their field of mining endeavor aspire to work for a penny dreadful doubtfully funded Kiwi minnow ? Just a thought to ponder...
Disc: I regret not getting the popcorn on a little earlier with this one.

[cyclist]

I like the rapping. Well done.

It is possible this notice is a response to regular inane questions from option holders wondering how it all works. Hence, at least, some of the detailed content.

[cammo]

Just wait. Many of us have waited a long time ...all of you late catchers can do some too... Once the stuff starts coming out of the hill we will all be smiling. Patience...

[silverblizzard888]

I like the rapping. Well done.

It is possible this notice is a response to regular inane questions from option holders wondering how it all works. Hence, at least, some of the detailed content.

Thanks! ^^

It could have been a responses to options holders questions, though in a professional stand point they should always be advising someone go to a financial specialist to advise them on the matter. An investor is expected to know what they are buying and not up to company management to explain it and I doubt that announcement did much to answer anything other than to serve as a reminder.

[silverblizzard888]

Just wait. Many of us have waited a long time ...all of you late catchers can do some too... Once the stuff starts coming out of the hill we will all be smiling. Patience...

But stuff has being coming out of the hill...... Mathew Hill to be exact

[Chippie]

We need to remember someone is buying all these shares being dumped. $360k so far today on NZX. So someone is buying

[Blue Horseshoe]

Storm in a tea cup, turnover only 20 mill, PEANUTS.

[meltical]

I think a lot out there were in it to make a quick buck
For those that did not enter in at 0.5c and only came in at a higher sp probably knew announcements were coming expecting sp to go up looking for a quick turn around and selling off for profit. These people are now running for the exit after unexpected spp, they are not long term holders.

Warren Buffet seems to ring turn for NTL, be greedy when others are fearful (running for the exit after spp and potential new government)
If it drops more could be a good time to buy

[Brain]

Storm in a tea cup, turnover only 20 mill, PEANUTS.

I agree , all the manic depressives need to get back on their meds :)

[tim23]

15k thats a heap of options or do you mean you bought 15000 of them?
Oh well I just bought my 15k of options.

But I paid 1.8c for them instead of 2.2c so I am happy :)

Time will tell but I am happy as I almost bough them at 2c :)

I am getting back in, yahoo, its play money anyway in comparison to property developing

[jonu]

Just wait. Many of us have waited a long time ...all of you late catchers can do some too... Once the stuff starts coming out of the hill we will all be smiling. Patience...

I agree Cammo.

Ideal scenario would have been sell most of my holding at 2.6-2.9 but still be on the register. Then be filling my boots now and have maybe 40% more shares. However was taken by surprise by the SPP. BUT.......

Is there any less gold in the ground? No

Have management outlined how they are going to extract more gold more efficiently? Yes

Let the short term traders win/lose. NTL just announced another 73000 ounces at high grades with a further exploration target with up to 600k ounces at high grades. They have more veins to add to JORC by December.

Can a Green/Labour government stuff them up with schedule 4? No. My understanding is that schedule 4 allows underground mining (not open cast). NTL's ground disturbance is all done, their site established.

NTL have a 25 year mining permit.

Other than the dilution from the SPP the fundamentals are better than ever.

Would I prefer the SP hadn't taken a dive? Of course. But as I'm not selling it is of no immediate concern. Let's see where it sits when the confirmation grades come through from the bulk sampling due to start in December.

[cammo]

I also considered doing as you say and dropping out and back in again.

But the facts remain:

Permit in place

almost half a million ounces now. possibility of over 1m ounces. Its getting fairly esoteric now - theres more than enough gold for a reasonable mine life already and theres more down further once theyre going.

Their timing might be viewed as bad by some scalpers, but we dont know what cards they are holding so cannot evaluate their behaviour yet. AGM may result in some rationalization of this. But nevertheless, we are finally at the precipice of Aurum removal from the mine and the current price is excellent.

From polls, it looks as if greens may not be enough for labour so Im not sure that would work. May need a three way, but you know that one partner always gets favoured in a three way. Starts getting hard, may be easier and more likely that king winnie goes with the blue boys and gets his bow-out as prime minister or finance or some such gig.

not much of an issue, if reds get in theyve got to miraculously build affordable housing and all their other ideas to worry about NTL for quite a while.

[Fatboyj]

Excellent posts you guys and yes best to ride this out in the short term.

At this point and if the sp stays at .18c, is the spp dead?
If there's no funding from the spp will this mean there's a chance of delays in trying to get new funding?

[BigBob]

Excellent posts you guys and yes best to ride this out in the short term.

At this point and if the sp stays at .18c, is the spp dead?
If there's no funding from the spp will this mean there's a chance of delays in trying to get new funding?

Placement! it is always more PC to do that after the mums and pops have turned down the opportunity....

Good thing is that it may stabilise the SP and reduce the time to get through the overhang.

[jonu]

Placement! it is always more PC to do that after the mums and pops have turned down the opportunity....

Good thing is that it may stabilise the SP and reduce the time to get through the overhang.

My thinking too Bigbob. I'm wondering whether Newmont or OGC are poised to take a major stake with the shortfall. Both are logical contenders.

[cammo]

In which case a nice offer to ma n pa prior to offer from interested party makes perfect sense no? only fair to offer it up before the big boys open their wallets to take up the gap.

[Fatboyj]

Well this is certainly something to ponder while I lie awake in bed, with a big fat red arrow getting longer.

Buy more at this reduced price getting an extra 150k shares more than the SPP. OR wait till next week see where this settles at buy some then. OR just sit it out, hope Jacinda has a skeleton in the closet(paid for dental work with public funds) and hope she'll come right.

[SilverBack]

What a joe of a bulletin board this is with one thread for each company but when was the last assessment of the company's value done?
First of all, NTL has a mining permit. Second their resource consent is only for 3 years (from date of issue) and it only allows them them to mine 20,000 m3 of material p.a. using a single explosive blast per day. Even with the high grade ore that has been encountered that limits their ability to produce gold. This will limit the company to gaining revenue of $11M or so p.a. until they can obtain permission for "full" mining.

The company has not given any figure for the All In Sustaining Cost (AISC) of mining the currently proven resources using this "bulk sampling" consent and so earnings are still a bit up in the air.

For the company to fly, it has to obtain new consents to increase the level of mining. That is where the election becomes an issue. If Labour/Green get in (as looks increasingly likely) who have already said (both Greens and Labour spokespersons) that they will place the Karangahake Conservation Area under section 4 of the Mining Act which restricts mining. That will mean the Minister of Conservation needs to give NTL an exemption for any new access to mine outside of the existing mining permit, as would be required for the Rahu prospect and possibly for the full development of the Talisman mine. Not impossible but much more difficult with a Green coalition and who knows who the Conservation Minister will be.
Beyond that, a new resource consent is required to go beyond the current bulk sampling. This is issued by the Waikato Regional Authority for water treatment and the Hauraki District Council otherwise. The normal public consultation process will be required. This is the really difficult bit in my mind because all the environmental impacts are taken into account. The much larger amount of tailings will need to handled in the Conservation Area or removed somewhere else in an acceptable manner. Plus the activity of crushing ore, treating it for concentration and then refinement has to be approved. Perhaps this can be done outside the Conservation Area and I note that the Waihi Mine already does the full process. Historically, there was a strong flow of water at the lower levels of the mine that needed to be pumped out and discharged. The company has not given any assessment of this to date. The water will not be alowed to be pumped straight into a stream/river but will need to be treated before discharge. A permit for minimal extraction and treatment of ore is one thing but a full-scale process is something else.

No doubt the company has been lending its mind on how to succeed with the above but we have no public info and a change of Government will change the situation.

The gold is there but when can it be extracted at substantial levels? On that question you have to decide what the present day value of the company is worth to you as a shareholder.

[jonu]

What a joe of a bulletin board this is with one thread for each company but when was the last assessment of the company's value done?
First of all, NTL has a mining permit. Second their resource consent is only for 3 years (from date of issue) and it only allows them them to mine 20,000 m3 of material p.a. using a single explosive blast per day. Even with the high grade ore that has been encountered that limits their ability to produce gold. This will limit the company to gaining revenue of $11M or so p.a. until they can obtain permission for "full" mining.

The company has not given any figure for the All In Sustaining Cost (AISC) of mining the currently proven resources using this "bulk sampling" consent and so earnings are still a bit up in the air.

For the company to fly, it has to obtain new consents to increase the level of mining. That is where the election becomes an issue. If Labour/Green get in (as looks increasingly likely) who have already said (both Greens and Labour spokespersons) that they will place the Karangahake Conservation Area under section 4 of the Mining Act which restricts mining. That will mean the Minister of Conservation needs to give NTL an exemption for any new access to mine outside of the existing mining permit, as would be required for the Rahu prospect and possibly for the full development of the Talisman mine. Not impossible but much more difficult with a Green coalition and who knows who the Conservation Minister will be.
Beyond that, a new resource consent is required to go beyond the current bulk sampling. This is issued by the Waikato Regional Authority for water treatment and the Hauraki District Council otherwise. The normal public consultation process will be required. This is the really difficult bit in my mind because all the environmental impacts are taken into account. The much larger amount of tailings will need to handled in the Conservation Area or removed somewhere else in an acceptable manner. Plus the activity of crushing ore, treating it for concentration and then refinement has to be approved. Perhaps this can be done outside the Conservation Area and I note that the Waihi Mine already does the full process. Historically, there was a strong flow of water at the lower levels of the mine that needed to be pumped out and discharged. The company has not given any assessment of this to date. The water will not be alowed to be pumped straight into a stream/river but will need to be treated before discharge. A permit for minimal extraction and treatment of ore is one thing but a full-scale process is something else.

No doubt the company has been lending its mind on how to succeed with the above but we have no public info and a change of Government will change the situation.

The gold is there but when can it be extracted at substantial levels? On that question you have to decide what the present day value of the company is worth to you as a shareholder.

Interesting points Silverback, however many of them are a little off the mark.

The company has a 25 year mining permit. The 20,000 m3 aspect of the bulk sampling resource consent is partly why they want the ore concentrator. Beyond this, yes they do need to apply for a RC to fully mine. This would be hard to decline as the issues have already been to Appeal and thrown out for the first consent.

The company is updating the ASIC as part of the updated feasibility study due by the end of the year. Earlier indications have been around $800 an ounce NZD. There have been movements in the exchange rate and gold price since then with a significantly higher profit margin at current prices.

Schedule 4 may be an issue if they are looking to access through entirely new areas. With Rahu that would be a JV problem with Newmont, although I'm not sure that even involves accessing through Conservation Land. Would be a good question for the AGM.

I don't know how you calculated the 11 million figure. But if you take the ore concentrator into account, Matt Hill is saying 100,000 tonne of ore can be extracted under the current consent. Without allowing for silver and allowing for 17g/t I come up with a rough profit of 59 million per year, going on the $800 an ounce cost figure. Even if you halved the g/t the figure is still very good.

I'm not a miner, but it would appear the gear they want to use won't rely on blasting. Again another question that might be asked at the AGM.

I have always tried to value the company on the JORC. Once the SPP (and possible subsequent shortfall placement) is out of the way, true value will emerge.

[Fatboyj]

Silverback and Jonu both informative posts thanks for taking the time to post them. We need info from both sides and its clear where you guys stand. Me, I'm in the middle. At this moment I, like many others here, am disappointed in the direction this has gone. I'll take the short term goggles off and wear the long term cap. Wait this out.

Who's staying on the bumpy bus ride and who's jumping from this moving vehicle steered by Matthew Hill?

And it doesn't help with stories like this on google alerts - Is New Talisman Gold Mines Limited (NZSE:NTL) Overpaying Its CEO? - Matthew Hill took the reins as New Talisman Gold Mines Limited’s (NZSE:NTL (https://simplywall.st/NZSE:NTL/new-talisman-gold-mines)) CEO and earned a total compensation of $356,000 over the past year. We’re going to find out whether Hill’s stock-based compensation is in-line with the salaries of CEO-peers in globally recognized companies. In 2015, 60% of total compensation for S&P500 CEOs were stock-based compensation. Although NTL is a small-cap company operating in New Zealand, and may not be directly comparable to their larger counterparts, this analysis is still useful in terms of helping us understand how the company’s CEO is incentivised, and the level of alignment with shareholders.

Full story here https://simplywall.st/news/2017/09/07/is-new-talisman-gold-mines-limited-nzsentl-overpaying-its-ceo/

[The Seeker]

What a joe of a bulletin board this is with one thread for each company but when was the last assessment of the company's value done?
First of all, NTL has a mining permit. Second their resource consent is only for 3 years (from date of issue) and it only allows them them to mine 20,000 m3 of material p.a. using a single explosive blast per day. Even with the high grade ore that has been encountered that limits their ability to produce gold. This will limit the company to gaining revenue of $11M or so p.a. until they can obtain permission for "full" mining.

The company has not given any figure for the All In Sustaining Cost (AISC) of mining the currently proven resources using this "bulk sampling" consent and so earnings are still a bit up in the air.

For the company to fly, it has to obtain new consents to increase the level of mining. That is where the election becomes an issue. If Labour/Green get in (as looks increasingly likely) who have already said (both Greens and Labour spokespersons) that they will place the Karangahake Conservation Area under section 4 of the Mining Act which restricts mining. That will mean the Minister of Conservation needs to give NTL an exemption for any new access to mine outside of the existing mining permit, as would be required for the Rahu prospect and possibly for the full development of the Talisman mine. Not impossible but much more difficult with a Green coalition and who knows who the Conservation Minister will be.
Beyond that, a new resource consent is required to go beyond the current bulk sampling. This is issued by the Waikato Regional Authority for water treatment and the Hauraki District Council otherwise. The normal public consultation process will be required. This is the really difficult bit in my mind because all the environmental impacts are taken into account. The much larger amount of tailings will need to handled in the Conservation Area or removed somewhere else in an acceptable manner. Plus the activity of crushing ore, treating it for concentration and then refinement has to be approved. Perhaps this can be done outside the Conservation Area and I note that the Waihi Mine already does the full process. Historically, there was a strong flow of water at the lower levels of the mine that needed to be pumped out and discharged. The company has not given any assessment of this to date. The water will not be alowed to be pumped straight into a stream/river but will need to be treated before discharge. A permit for minimal extraction and treatment of ore is one thing but a full-scale process is something else.

No doubt the company has been lending its mind on how to succeed with the above but we have no public info and a change of Government will change the situation.

The gold is there but when can it be extracted at substantial levels? On that question you have to decide what the present day value of the company is worth to you as a shareholder.

Hi SilverBack, interesting points you raise about the consents required for water treatment and discharge.

The history of the Talisman which can be read here, especially the DRAINAGE section:
http://www.ohinemuri.org.nz/journals/71-journal-43-september-1999/1584-talisman-mine-karangahake

says the mine floods below Level 12 (river level) at a rate of "25,000 to 30,000 gallons per hour" when the nearby Crown mine's pumps were working, so the without Crown's pumps running the current figure is probably higher than that.

Does it require a consent to actually pump the water out? I'm guessing a separate consent is required to TAKE the water, as well as to later DISCHARGE it?

[jonu]

Hi SilverBack, interesting points you raise about the consents required for water treatment and discharge.

The history of the Talisman which can be read here, especially the DRAINAGE section:
http://www.ohinemuri.org.nz/journals/71-journal-43-september-1999/1584-talisman-mine-karangahake

says the mine floods below Level 12 (river level) at a rate of "25,000 to 30,000 gallons per hour" when the nearby Crown mine's pumps were working, so the without Crown's pumps running the current figure is probably higher than that.

Does it require a consent to actually pump the water out? I'm guessing a separate consent is required to TAKE the water, as well as to later DISCHARGE it?

If you think water is an issue Seeker, you are best to raise it with the company. No one here will be able to give you an accurate assessment. It hasn't been raised as an issue by the company.

[cammo]

Silverback and Jonu both informative posts thanks for taking the time to post them. We need info from both sides and its clear where you guys stand. Me, I'm in the middle. At this moment I, like many others here, am disappointed in the direction this has gone. I'll take the short term goggles off and wear the long term cap. Wait this out.

Who's staying on the bumpy bus ride and who's jumping from this moving vehicle steered by Matthew Hill?

And it doesn't help with stories like this on google alerts - Is New Talisman Gold Mines Limited (NZSE:NTL) Overpaying Its CEO? - Matthew Hill took the reins as New Talisman Gold Mines Limited’s (NZSE:NTL (https://simplywall.st/NZSE:NTL/new-talisman-gold-mines)) CEO and earned a total compensation of $356,000 over the past year. We’re going to find out whether Hill’s stock-based compensation is in-line with the salaries of CEO-peers in globally recognized companies. In 2015, 60% of total compensation for S&P500 CEOs were stock-based compensation. Although NTL is a small-cap company operating in New Zealand, and may not be directly comparable to their larger counterparts, this analysis is still useful in terms of helping us understand how the company’s CEO is incentivised, and the level of alignment with shareholders.

Full story here https://simplywall.st/news/2017/09/07/is-new-talisman-gold-mines-limited-nzsentl-overpaying-its-ceo/
This looks like a generated report and is useful only as digital TP

[The Seeker]

If you think water is an issue Seeker, you are best to raise it with the company. No one here will be able to give you an accurate assessment. It hasn't been raised as an issue by the company.

Hi jonu, yes excellent question for the upcoming AGM, "Is it true the Talisman mine is flooded below Level12?

If so what are the company's plans to deal with this, especially as in the recent 5th Sept 2017 Bonanza announcement it identified the lower reaches of the zone below 14 Level as a Global Exploration Target likely to yield a vein width of between 1.6m and 2.4m with mean AuEq grades ranging between 17.10g/t and 21.6g/t, for between 300,000 and 600,000 contained ounces?"

[cammo]

Question 2: does ntl plan to sell any of the remaining share offer to newmont, oceana, Amer or any other party.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I dont think anyone connected with an anti-mining lobbyist group is allowed to attend the agm.

[Fatboyj]

Question 3. Can the SPP be extended?

[silverblizzard888]

Question 2: does ntl plan to sell any of the remaining share offer to newmont, oceana, Amer or any other party.

Normally that only happens when the company has stated how much it plans to raise and usually when they don't quite achieve that, they tend to raise the shortfall from someone else. Here they haven't stated how much they need, so any issue of shares would likely different capital raising from the current one rather than from a shortfall of this one.


Question 3. Can the SPP be extended?

Yes management have the power to extend the SPP if they feel it is necessary, given circumstances we would likely see an extension as very little amount of people would likely take up much or any of the current SPP given they can buy cheaper on market. Also a extension would bring it closer to option expiry date and you know how the are 'encouraging' shareholders to exercise those options it'd be quite suitable.

[steveb]

SP is back to .18 in aus up.02 today could be the start of a bounce.It should settle at .021/.022

[Kay]

I'd agree...the SPP at 2.2c took the market out of the game when the SP was hovering near the 3c figure. Goodbye buyers. Hello sellers.

An SP of 1.7 invites the market back in again. Welcome back.

[Bluemanarc]

SP is back to .18 in aus up.02 today could be the start of a bounce.It should settle at .021/.022

Yes I am still very happy, I bought my first lot at 1.8c and then leapt in at 2.5c and even a few at 2.7c - ooohh happy time.
But I also got $15,000 at 1.8c yesterday, while I put my 2.2c options papers in the bin - very happy to do that.
Management might be good at mining but they are useless at the share market and they have said so in releases before.
They have absolutely murdered the SPP and investor faith in this product.

But, they obviously believe 2.2c was a bonus price for existing holders, and they also indicated future value at 5.5c.
And they are intending to do a lot with these mines and wish to ramp up operations, they would not have looked for more funds if they didn't think so.

My holding are up to about 70k and will have a little green arrow when it hits 2c again.
I am happy to be sitting their.

After election is complete and AGM is over, all the uncertainly will be removed.
Then we have better results and news and gold coming out latter this year, and they will find a way to find money to ramp up extraction.

I am very happy SP went back down to 1.8c for me to get another $15,000 of shares.
I am in no rush to sell, this is better than Kiwisaver and more fun.

[whatsup]

Back to .02 atm so will people partake in the SPP now ?

[jonu]

In other news today, gold just went through $1350 USD an ounce. Keep doing the maths folks.

[steveb]

Back to .02 atm so will people partake in the SPP now ?
simple answer is no.Most people see this as a speculative stock,which is fine if you are not matt Hill.He is desperate to increase the shareholders base,to help with funding.
I for one came in at .005/6 so am more than happy to hold long term,and participate in a sensible SPP if it helps the company.

[digger]

In other news today, gold just went through $1350 USD an ounce. Keep doing the maths folks.

Those of you gold investors who have not visited KITCO .COM I suggest you do so.
Many good articles about what is happening with gold. In short it is going higher. Both the Chinese YUAN and the Russian Ruble are backed by GOLD. Western countries are not and I believe that is a change coming. Worth a read and some thinking
Cheers all

[peat]

In other news today, gold just went through $1350 USD an ounce. Keep doing the maths folks.

lets look at the maths jonu - just simply, as an overview

lets be generous and say there is 500,000 oz of gold. (equivalent incl silver)
lets assume $1800 NZD per oz. = $900,000,000 revenue but we need to take outs costs of extraction and investment etc

From the company - Unit cash costs were estimated at NZ$692/oz.with an all in cost, including capital expenditure of NZ$1166/oz

I'm not sure which of those a new investor should use so I'll be generous and use the lower figure 692

So that means the mine could generate profit of (1800 -692 ) X 554,000,000

There are 2076995855 shares currently (this could increase )

By my calculations that is 24cents per share

How is that so far?

[Bluemanarc]

People who sold at 1.7 and 1.8 and 1.9 must be kicking themselves now.
Not much left being sold at 2.0

Looks like its on its way back up again

[jonu]

lets look at the maths jonu - just simply, as an overview

lets be generous and say there is 500,000 oz of gold. (equivalent incl silver)
lets assume $1800 NZD per oz. = $900,000,000 revenue but we need to take outs costs of extraction and investment etc

From the company - Unit cash costs were estimated at NZ$692/oz.with an all in cost, including capital expenditure of NZ$1166/oz

I'm not sure which of those a new investor should use so I'll be generous and use the lower figure 692

So that means the mine could generate profit of (1800 -692 ) X 554,000,000

There are 2076995855 shares currently (this could increase )

By my calculations that is 24cents per share

How is that so far?

Using your figures Peat I actually come up with 26.6 cents per share profit.

That doesn't of course make the shares worth 26 cents because once the gold is gone its gone. Not to say that NTL wouldn't diversify into other areas.

Big game changers are....more JORC to come from the sundry other veins. Confirmation through bulk sampling. Massive exploration target of 300-600k oz below Talisman/Bonanza. And the Rahu JV with Newmont.

The dilution from the SPP could be large if the shortfall is taken up. The more I have thought about it I reckon they have a big player waiting in the wings to do just that. It would of course make the extraction quicker and more efficient. Exciting times

[t.rexjr]

lets look at the maths jonu - just simply, as an overview

lets be generous and say there is 500,000 oz of gold. (equivalent incl silver)
lets assume $1800 NZD per oz. = $900,000,000 revenue but we need to take outs costs of extraction and investment etc

From the company - Unit cash costs were estimated at NZ$692/oz.with an all in cost, including capital expenditure of NZ$1166/oz

I'm not sure which of those a new investor should use so I'll be generous and use the lower figure 692

So that means the mine could generate profit of (1800 -692 ) X 554,000,000

There are 2076995855 shares currently (this could increase )

By my calculations that is 24cents per share

How is that so far?

This is odd. Use best case scenario and arrive at an imaginary figure for what purpose...

[peat]

This is odd. Use best case scenario and arrive at an imaginary figure for what purpose...

because if the best case scenario doesnt make the reward worthwhile, then who would risk it given the huge number of risks in any mining challenge yet alone in the Coromandel in NZ where the green movement is very strong.

[Bluemanarc]

Lets see what is said at the AGM and I expect a couple of things to come out.
One an admission that they balsed up the SPP but will put that down to in-experience, not sure who the CFO is but he will get a boot up the bum if not sacked.
The other is an overwhelming positiveness about the mine and gold extraction, and specific details on this.
Once those and the election uncertainty is over, confidence and a better SP will follow.

[steveb]

Thanks for the best case scenario's guys its food for thought.

What I would like to know is,why have NTL have not come up with a forecast profit/loss from the first year of mining.

[Joshuatree]

because if the best case scenario doesnt make the reward worthwhile, then who would risk it given the huge number of risks in any mining challenge yet alone in the Coromandel in NZ where the green movement is very strong.

It is a powerful lobby, they've shut down mining companies before. NTL have one of the smallest environmental footprints of any miner, but woe betide them if that changes in any way(water use and extraction for ex). IF the lower levels below the river are full of water and flood all the time, well what then?

[gmatt]

What I've been waiting for ......

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/265584.pdf

[Bluemanarc]

What I've been waiting for ......

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/265584.pdf

Yep he says, just dug out my SPP from the bin before it got thrown out, its a bit crumpled but it will do.
Might actually look at getting these new shares after all, will dust it off and see what happens to price this and next week.

They are very excited in this report about everything that is going on.
Looks like they want to get stuck in doesn't it, great news all round.

[Bluemanarc]

It is a powerful lobby, they've shut down mining companies before. NTL have one of the smallest environmental footprints of any miner, but woe betide them if that changes in any way(water use and extraction for ex). IF the lower levels below the river are full of water and flood all the time, well what then?

How is the lentil soup down at the mine protestors camp JT ?

[Fatboyj]

What I've been waiting for ......

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/265584.pdf

Good stuff thanks for posting. Will digest this over the day but if there's any good/bad points in this it would be great if people to post.

[Joshuatree]

How is the lentil soup down at the mine protestors camp JT ?
No need to insult me or them Bm. i have walked and cycled some of the walk/cycleway from waihi to paeroa and done the windows walk twice.. I haven't seen the mine.How about a decent response about risks .

[Clints]

Well must say I am happy to have sold at 2.9 and brought back in at 2

My concern is if Labour do well in the polls and don't need Winnie to be kingmaker - they get in with the just the Greens then maybe the Greens might have a bit more say in policy.

Just a thought but I do think things will be a little rocky in the market in general with the election being in the balance.

[Clints]

Wow - someone just dumped 5,000,000 shares at 1.8

[suse]

Probably cashed up to put in ATM 😀

[Topagent]

I was a lucky buyer :) so thanks to whoever did that lol 555,555 shares bought must be a lucky number surely. Seriously why would you sell at 1.8 I think the report they just realeased is awesome.

[Clints]

Probably cashed up to put in ATM 

Touche :cool:

[digger]

Well must say I am happy to have sold at 2.9 and brought back in at 2

My concern is if Labour do well in the polls and don't need Winnie to be kingmaker - they get in with the just the Greens then maybe the Greens might have a bit more say in policy.

Just a thought but I do think things will be a little rocky in the market in general with the election being in the balance.

Hitting the nail on the head,is that your specialty. My thinking as well.

[Bluemanarc]

I was a lucky buyer :) so thanks to whoever did that lol 555,555 shares bought must be a lucky number surely. Seriously why would you sell at 1.8 I think the report they just realeased is awesome.

Crikey I might get back in, last week got $15,000 at 1.8c
Might see if that price is open again tomorrow.
I thought it was racing back up past 2.2c so didn't even think to get more at 1.8c

[Topagent]

I'd moved funds to have my $15000 to take up spp then sp crashed bought some at 1.8 then freed up another 10k might struggle for the other 5 but trying :) then thought might as well put a 10k buying at 1.8 this morning not expecting it to be hit especially after what I consider a great overview report. Glad it did though

[peat]

What I've been waiting for ......

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/265584.pdf

where has it been for the last six days ?
I love that graph of various projects gold grades!

[t.rexjr]

What I've been waiting for ......

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/265584.pdf

Nothing new is the issue. Traders have fled, hype has imploded. Long term players are already in. New comers cautious. Amount of shares on issue after SPP unknown. Competence doubted.

Long term it'll likely come right. Plenty of good mining stocks out there...

[Mbro]

All true t.rexjr. But I feel there's no such thing as a solid gold explorer/miner stock anywhere in the world, IMHO! Talisman is allowed 20,000 m3 20 gm/tonne gold equivalent of rock per year for 2 years. Only 40,000 tonnes per year ( not the 100,000 tonnes management say), I believe. But still probably 20 000 oz gold equiv per year for 2 years. $24m profit on a $ 40m cap company with 300,000 proven gold oz equivalent above water looks fine to me. It's worth a multiple of 2 cents right now I believe unless we get sold out to Newmont by management. I think that unlikely, more money for current big shareholders in pushing on than in them selling, but who knows. November options are my pick right now, dust will settle a bit by then

[Fatboyj]

Hey mbro welcome and thanks for sharing your info. Where have you got your figures from?

[Mbro]

Gold assay at 20 gms /tonne, about 2/3 an ounce/ tonne. Google says crushed rock under two tonnes/cubic metre. Company says nett margin at nz $1800 oz equiv is $600 an ounce which seems conservative - lower profit than similar small US and Canadian miners I own in. Plenty of upside. No need to count blue sky like underwater gold or probable bigger world gold price soon for the numbers to be a good gamble, in my humble opinion. I have however been known to be wrong lol. Remember they have got 140 gms/tonne out of ore dump samples!

[Blue Horseshoe]

People are saying a Newmont take over,

Wouldn't it be a Newcrest take over.?

[jonu]

People are saying a Newmont take over,

Wouldn't it be a Newcrest take over.?

I think I fell into that trap, confusing the 2 because of similar names.

[jonu]

Newshub poll from last night has National able to govern alone. Maybe the jitters over the Greens might dissipate somewhat and the SPP gets a boost after all?

[digger]

Newshub poll from last night has National able to govern alone. Maybe the jitters over the Greens might dissipate somewhat and the SPP gets a boost after all?

That is not the point. From what we shareholder now are informed the SPP should have been left until after the election and when the dust has settled. A lot of our money is put into making these documents and sending to each shareholder so why do it an uncertain time.
I call on the management to withdraw the SPP and if still of interest move it until the new year when the bulk sampling is underway.This of coarse is conditional on the very real fact that the management may know something that we shareholders have for one reason or other not been told.

[jonu]

That is not the point. From what we shareholder now are informed the SPP should have been left until after the election and when the dust has settled. A lot of our money is put into making these documents and sending to each shareholder so why do it an uncertain time.
I call on the management to withdraw the SPP and if still of interest move it until the new year when the bulk sampling is underway.This of coarse is conditional on the very real fact that the management may know something that we shareholders have for one reason or other not been told.

I'm not happy with the timing either Digger. As you say, maybe there is something in the background we are unaware of. I can't see them withdrawing it. Hardly fair on those who have sold to participate

[Joshuatree]

Newshub poll from last night has National able to govern alone. Maybe the jitters over the Greens might dissipate somewhat and the SPP gets a boost after all?

Lots of uncertainty at election time; this one more so.
Latest more accurate poll of polls has
National 41.3%
Labour 40.5%
Greens 5.5%
Centrebet odds labour $1.85
National $1.90. too close to call for them and whether the greens get 5% atm.

[jonu]

Trouble with the "Poll of Polls" is the timelag. All Jacinda's free ride with the media is still built in. Now even the media commentators are starting to ask harder questions on detail. I gather on RNZ this morning she said she would not rule out more coal mines or sea bed mining. Certainly would appear little old NTL isn't featuring large on her radar...and neither is sympathy for her supposed coalition partner the Greens. Reality of what it means to govern is hitting home.

[Clints]

That is not the point. From what we shareholder now are informed the SPP should have been left until after the election and when the dust has settled. A lot of our money is put into making these documents and sending to each shareholder so why do it an uncertain time.
I call on the management to withdraw the SPP and if still of interest move it until the new year when the bulk sampling is underway.This of coarse is conditional on the very real fact that the management may know something that we shareholders have for one reason or other not been told.

I agree 100% with you.

[Joshuatree]

Trouble with the "Poll of Polls" is the timelag. All Jacinda's free ride with the media is still built in. Now even the media commentators are starting to ask harder questions on detail. I gather on RNZ this morning she said she would not rule out more coal mines or sea bed mining. Certainly would appear little old NTL isn't featuring large on her radar...and neither is sympathy for her supposed coalition partner the Greens. Reality of what it means to govern is hitting home.

Election 17 political polls: How do we interpret them? (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201858306/election-17-political-polls-how-do-we-interpret-them)

Cant see NTL being on anyones radar if their very small environmental footprint stays the same.

[Bluemanarc]

The tide needed to turn before the election and I think she timed her run about 10 days too soon.

Its like waking up the next day with a hotty you picked up while drunk at a nightclub and you realise its not just the same with the full power of daylight revealing all

Its all downhill from here I cant see anyone being fooled twice unless beer goggles are on

[Fatboyj]

Too true, this is a marathon not a sprint.

[Joshuatree]

The tide needed to turn before the election and I think she timed her run about 10 days too soon.

Its like waking up the next day with a hotty you picked up while drunk at a nightclub and you realise its not just the same with the full power of daylight revealing all

Its all downhill from here I cant see anyone being fooled twice unless beer goggles are on

Correct we know that the only hole joyce and bill are falling into was of their own creation.:t_up:

[cammo]

Unfortunately labour said taxity tax tax. Doesn't go down well in all areas

[Fatboyj]

More bad press via the local beatniks. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1709/S00161/karangahake-locals-send-a-creative-message-to-maggie-barry.htm

[Joshuatree]

Unfortunately labour said taxity tax tax. Doesn't go down well in all areas
National have raised taxes 15 times in the last 3 terms.Anyway off topic now, enough from me for now.

[The Seeker]

Hi all, I recently pointed out that the historical record of the Talisman Mine says in early 1900’s the mine continually flooded below Level 12 (river/sea level) at a rate of "25,000 to 30,000 gallons per hour".

That historical record is here (scroll down to the DRAINAGE section):
http://www.ohinemuri.org.nz/journals/71-journal-43-september-1999/1584-talisman-mine-karangahake

A quick calculation puts water ingress at about an Olympic swimming pool per day. It has to discharge somewhere when pumped out, and I’ve seen no mention that NTL has an appropriate Resource Consent or Discharge Permit.

However it is of great concern that NTL is ANNOUNCING INFERRED RESERVES in those potentially flooded (or flood-prone) areas WITH NO DISCLOSURE TO SHAREHOLDERS OF POSSIBLE FLOODING.

In the recent DUBBO Resource Module release, widely publicised for doubling reserves to 8,500kg of high quality gold, maybe half of those reserves are BELOW LEVEL 12. So they’re BELOW WATER LEVEL and may NEVER BE ABLE TO BE MINED.

Ditto for the recent WOODSTOCK release. Again a large amount of those resources are BELOW LEVEL 12.

Even if the water was pumped out, imagine the state of the lower levels that have been flooded for 100 years. All the stopes will be rotted away, who knows what collapses have occurred, and the Health & Safety issues boggle imagination.

The two forum posts below show the Resource profiles from the DUBBO and WOODSTOCK releases alongside NTL’s own map of the mine from the NTL website here:

http://www.newtalismangoldmines.co.nz/projects/talisman-project/geology/ (http://www.newtalismangoldmines.co.nz/projects/talisman-project/geology/)
The edited version of the NTL Map below shows Sea Level (Black Line) all the way across, and also identifies Levels 13, 14 and 15, otherwise it is identical to NTL’s.

9163

[The Seeker]

Figure 3 from the Dubbo Release (Pg 4) here:
http://www.newtalismangoldmines.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/NTL-Resources-Double-at-Dubbo-Release-final.pdf
is shown alongside the corresponding Dubbo section on the right-hand side of NTL’s Map of the Mine.

It is easy to line-up Figure 3 with the Map because the only Stoped area (Grey shading) in the measured (red/green/blue) Dubbo Zone is below Sea Level.
9164
NOTE: ABOUT HALF THE BLUE “INFERRED” SHADING WHICH CONTRIBUTES TO THE 8,500kg DUBBO RELEASE IS IN THE POTENTIALLY FLOODED AREA BELOW LEVEL 12

SO MAYBE HALF OF NTL’s 8,500kg DUBBO RESOURCE IS PROBABLY UNDERWATER AND MAY NEVER BE ABLE TO BE MINED

[The Seeker]

Figure 6 from the Woodstock Release (Pg 5) here:
http://www.newtalismangoldmines.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Woodstock-resource-upgrade-July-2017.pdf
is shown alongside the corresponding Woodstock section on the left-hand side of NTL’s Map of the Mine.

It is easy to line-up Figure 6 with the Map because the Historic Stoping area (Grey shading) stops just above Sea Level.

9165

NOTE: A LARGE AMOUNT OF WOODSTOCK RESOURCE IN THE BLUE INFERRED SHADING IS BELOW LEVEL 12 AND SO MAY NEVER BE ABLE TO BE MINED

[jonu]

What's your agenda The Seeker? You're not overly subtle are you? Why don't you address your questions to the company as previously suggested instead of a ridiculous scaremongering campaign. Probably in fairness you should declare your connections to the protest group as well.

[Crow]

What's your agenda The Seeker? You're not overly subtle are you? Why don't you address your questions to the company as previously suggested instead of a ridiculous scaremongering campaign. Probably in fairness you should declare your connections to the protest group as well.
Seems to be all over the place..... https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/the-elephant-in-the-room.3669570/#.WbjT5ahL-1s
Just ignore.

[Kay]

incredible....the inferred resource...The resource that they call inferred...I.e. The maybe or maybe not extra bit of resource....A bit of it is under water...someone needs to tell ntl...stop the job!!!!!

[Blue Horseshoe]

After reading "The Seekers" post I just took up all my shares in the spp,
I could of purchased cheaper on market, but i would rather support the company, thanks TS.

My protest to the protesters.

[Ace]

Technology hasn't changed much from 100 years ago either I guess.





Sent from my Rotary Dial

[Topagent]

I've just received a message by carrier pigeon from inside the mine. Gees it's a bit wet down here ... that's what she said.

[Clints]

I've just received a message by carrier pigeon from inside the mine. Gees it's a bit wet down here ... that's what she said.

Moses just sent me a message - he's gonna part the water with his magic stick

[Antipodean]

If there is water in the mine do we pay new tax on it?

[steveb]

no but we could sell it,asia would love gold plated water

[Bluemanarc]

Its a welcome change to see Labour shooting themselves in the foot instead of National.

All National need to do now is just keep their big mouths shout.

Now that Green's are consistently at just under 5% you are going to have some very nervous supporters dithering on where to tick on their voting slips as potentially its a wasted vote now.

[Clints]

Well, well, well - I guess that answers the extension question

[jonu]

Well, well, well - I guess that answers the extension question

Closing date brought forward by 2 days. Now saying the 20th

[Antipodean]

Closing date brought forward by 2 days. Now saying the 20th

Hard to tell if bringing the closing date forward was intentional or not? The wording indicates an affirmation of the previous closing date but 20th September is definitely 2 days prior to the previously announced 22nd September.

[jonu]

Closing date brought forward by 2 days. Now saying the 20th

As you were. They have just issued a correction to the 22nd

[Antipodean]

Ah, guess that answers my other question. Silly little mistake though.

[Bluemanarc]

Ah, guess that answers my other question. Silly little mistake though.

Illustrates what I said earlier, they are miners and good at mining, not boardroom cone heads nor keyboard warriors, however their CFO or whoever fills that role needs his head sharpened.

[patrick]

If there is water in the mine do we pay new tax on it?
No it's pumped out and the Company gets a tax credit.

[Bluemanarc]

Had a read through the notice.
I sense an underlying excitement and real eagerness on their part to develop operations as fast as possible to get gold out.
They seem very "Excited" and obviously see value well above 2.2c and the new options suggest future value above 5.5c

Unfortunately the size of the company.
And the lack of commercial share market brains.
Has seen the SPP turn into a complete disaster.

The sooner that is gotten out of the way and Jacinda Taxinder is buried, the better it will be for everyone.

Happy Times ahead !!!!!!!!!

[gmatt]

Had a read through the notice.
I sense an underlying excitement and real eagerness on their part to develop operations as fast as possible to get gold out.
They seem very "Excited" and obviously see value well above 2.2c and the new options suggest future value above 5.5c

Unfortunately the size of the company.
And the lack of commercial share market brains.
Has seen the SPP turn into a complete disaster.

The sooner that is gotten out of the way and Jacinda Taxinder is buried, the better it will be for everyone.

Happy Times ahead !!!!!!!!!

Yeah agree with you ........ they've really gone about it the wrong way and put many of us offside ....... but the potential is still there and hopefully they raise the cash to do what they propose.

[Clints]

I must say, the lack of business acumen shown over the last few weeks is quite astounding - who releases an announcement to an already spooked market with such a glaring mistake?

[Leftfield]

Illustrates what I said earlier, they are miners and good at mining, not boardroom cone heads nor keyboard warriors, however their CFO or whoever fills that role needs his head sharpened.

Crikey, today's announcements and date mix ups just made the SPP even more weird. Not exactly inspirational stuff from the management. Just as well they can cover their incompetence in all that gold!

[Bluemanarc]

I must say, the lack of business acumen shown over the last few weeks is quite astounding - who releases an announcement to an already spooked market with such a glaring mistake?

The same people who balsed it up and spooked the market the first time.

[Clints]

So far no trades on the ASX.

[Bluemanarc]

So far no trades on the ASX.

Funny thread about that on Hot Copper

With best quote being "All the losers have been flushed out"

https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/quiet-couple-of-days.3684645/page-7?get_post=true#.WboLDGcUmpo

[HumptyDumpty]

Anyone going to the AGM? Feel like (hope) there will be a few pointy questions from the crowd about some of the recent management bungles... the more serious this whole thing gets, the less tolerant the crowd will be.

[Donald Duck]

KKeep your political views to your self or this forum will deteriorate into a shirt fight. Good business is ethical and moral and sustainable. Measure the party you support against those good business criteria then make a rational decision. Ntl is exciting business. The fundamentals seem strong to me despite the nervous twitches..

[Clints]

Anyone going to the AGM? Feel like (hope) there will be a few pointy questions from the crowd about some of the recent management bungles... the more serious this whole thing gets, the less tolerant the crowd will be.

I am going to go

[HumptyDumpty]

Wish I could but am starting a new job Monday and won't be able to take time off. Some holders must be foaming at the mouth with questions they want to put directly to the board now that things are looking like really taking off. Big week coming for NTL!

[Odd Fellow]

Hi,
wonder can we buy more options then what we are holding, is nothing written on the form.

Cheers, Odd Fellow
Long, very long time holder

[Clints]

Hitting the nail on the head,is that your specialty. My thinking as well.

This is looking a little more likely with the latest polls.

[steveb]

How on earth do NTL work this out:-
Matthew Hill Said “With the attaching options holding a value of between .2 and .4 cents per share (based on the black Scholes calculation), the current entry price for the offer equates to 1.8 to 2 cents NZ. I am delighted by the amount of shareholder interest and support in the offer to date which if successful will allow accelerated development at Talisman aimed at increasing volumes and ultimately revenues”.

Is he saying that the options are worth between 1 to 2 cents ea? or has he forgotten that the options are allocated on a 5 to 1 basis?

[blackcap]

How on earth do NTL work this out:-
Matthew Hill Said “With the attaching options holding a value of between .2 and .4 cents per share (based on the black Scholes calculation), the current entry price for the offer equates to 1.8 to 2 cents NZ. I am delighted by the amount of shareholder interest and support in the offer to date which if successful will allow accelerated development at Talisman aimed at increasing volumes and ultimately revenues”.

Is he saying that the options are worth between 1 to 2 cents ea? or has he forgotten that the options are allocated on a 5 to 1 basis?

I think he is saying the options are worth between .2 and .4 cents. Or have I missed something? I see I have. I see what you mean. You pay 2.2 cents for a share and get 1/5 of an option. What is that option worth?

[digger]

I think he is saying the options are worth between .2 and .4 cents. Or have I missed something? I see I have. I see what you mean. You pay 2.2 cents for a share and get 1/5 of an option. What is that option worth?

My figures are
2.2 -.4/5=2.12
And that is at the top end,so if you take the bottom figure it is
2.2-.2/5=2.16

Probable still a good deal if National get in but if it is Labor +green with the greens being the tail that wags the dog it will be a different story.

Here I am again saying this SPP should have been left until after the election.
Your call

[steveb]

you can tell they are trying to ramp up interest in the SPP,but releasing confusing statements do not help the cause. With the SP hanging around the 2c mark there is still quite a large discount on the SPP price of 2.2c,regardless of what the options might be worth.
I will still probably support the SPP but probably not with the full $15K

[gmatt]

Very strange ......... ASX and NZX both at 1.9c :confused:

[gmatt]

Now both 2c ........ is something up?

[Kay]

Seems to be holding cosy around 1.9c...It certainly makes the spp palatable now.

I bought my spp on the asx last week for a nice price...but I'm thinking I'd like another one!

It's an interesting dilemma...
I figure if the spp is unsuccessful then the sp will head south...or at least stall....A successful spp will likely have a positive effect on the sp....

But why should I get involved in the spp when the sp is 1.9/2.0...and I can let everyone else buy the spp at 2.2c and I buy on market at a 10% discount...

But if the spp is unsuccessful then everyone may be unsuccessful and wished they bought the spp.

Far too much game theory for a Friday afternoon....And more than my brain can compute.

So I'm going to give ntl 15k and see what happens!!!

[cammo]

From the interest. Co. NZ policy comparison, looking at the conservation bit of the party policy areas, the greens only say stop all New mining in conservation areas. That obviously sounds like to reverse granted permits is hard.
I talked to a RMA lawyer I know and he Said that although they can in theory legislate to stop mining full stop, it would be very hard, contested and slow to enact. But stopping any new mining is relatively easy in comparison. Achievable vs desirable.
Weigh that up and decide whether to buy

[digger]

My figures are
2.2 -.4/5=2.12
And that is at the top end,so if you take the bottom figure it is
2.2-.2/5=2.16

Probable still a good deal if National get in but if it is Labor +green with the greens being the tail that wags the dog it will be a different story.

Here I am again saying this SPP should have been left until after the election.
Your call

Sorry i have left out the time value of money in my above calculations.If you do this the SPP gives shares probably under 2 cents.

[Bluemanarc]

When the opportunity of the SPP to buy shares at 2.2c goes.
What is going to happen to the sell orders of people still at 2c and 2.1c and 2.2c ?

[Brain]

My guess is that when the SPP ends there will be a gradual increase in share price.

[Clints]

Now both 2c ........ is something up?

Did anyone figure out what happened with the ASX at the end of last week?

[Landyman]

My guess is that when the SPP ends there will be a gradual increase in share price.

Why?

My guess is that when the noise of the election goes away (though if Labour do get up, then it could be a while before dust settles), AND the noise of the stuff up in the SPP go away, there may be a gradual climb. However, in the short term, it could be a bumpy ride. Wont help if the "newbies" have been scared away as well, supply demand curves and all.
As much as I want to support NTL this round, my faith in Boards decision making and communication has been rattled. Im going to sit on sidelines, and look to re-enter later.

[Brain]

With the SPP there is a potential of a large supply of shares which caps the share price. Few will be taken up. After the SPP NTL will return to their original plan and start bulk sampling in the new year so there will be renewed interest in the share. I do not see that the share price will drop after the SPP. The big danger is that when they do start bulk sampling they do not recover enough gold to meet investors expectations.

[gmatt]

I agree that few shares will be taken up in the SPP ....... was badly timed ........ expect to see a rise in the SP later this week and next week

[digger]

I agree that few shares will be taken up in the SPP ....... was badly timed ........ expect to see a rise in the SP later this week and next week

Have had a personal meeting with Matt Hill at Paeroa today. This meeting came about as H Brown NTL biggest holder and myself wanted some questions answered about the sudden [out of the blue] SPP. The questions have been answered to my satisfaction. I understand that Matt Hill will be answering these same questions at the AGM. I will not be at the AGM as I have had a recent knee operation and my general dislike of Auckland traffic.
I will be taking up the SPP and supporting the company in all its resolutions.
I encourage all holders to vote for the current company actions, and support the SPP. I can not guarantee it but I think you will not be disappointed. We need the gold concentrator. It just solves so many problems.

[Paint it Black]

Have had a personal meeting with Matt Hill at Paeroa today. This meeting came about as H Brown NTL biggest holder and myself wanted some questions answered about the sudden [out of the blue] SPP. The questions have been answered to my satisfaction. I understand that Matt Hill will be answering these same questions at the AGM. I will not be at the AGM as I have had a recent knee operation and my general dislike of Auckland traffic.
I will be taking up the SPP and supporting the company in all its resolutions.
I encourage all holders to vote for the current company actions, and support the SPP. I can not guarantee it but I think you will not be disappointed. We need the gold concentrator. It just solves so many problems.

Thanks Digger - excellent work. I realise you cannot be sure but was it your impression that Hamish was similarly convinced?

[Fatboyj]

Hey digger thanks for posting regarding your meeting the MH.

You're saying youre taking up the spp, why? Can you back this up with any info you gained from your meeting?

I don't want to sound rude but you just saying I encourage people to take up the spp sounds like ramping. Why wouldn't I just get the .019c market rate now? I know taking up the spp means the company gets the money, but from what I've seen over the last week there's nothing making want to do this.

Is there anything you, or even MH, can say to convince people to take up the spp? Its very short time now and I'm on the fence with this one.

[Brain]

Thanks for posting that Digger. I will go to the AGM and decided then whether or not to invest the extra 15K.

I fear that the take up will be very low as the share price is telling the story.
Obviously it is best for the future of the company for investors to take up the SPP rather than buy on market but I would be surprised if a significant number of investors would see it that way.

I hope I am wrong

[whatsup]

Have had a personal meeting with Matt Hill at Paeroa today. This meeting came about as H Brown NTL biggest holder and myself wanted some questions answered about the sudden [out of the blue] SPP. The questions have been answered to my satisfaction. I understand that Matt Hill will be answering these same questions at the AGM. I will not be at the AGM as I have had a recent knee operation and my general dislike of Auckland traffic.
I will be taking up the SPP and supporting the company in all its resolutions.
I encourage all holders to vote for the current company actions, and support the SPP. I can not guarantee it but I think you will not be disappointed. We need the gold concentrator. It just solves so many problems.


digger , If what you are saying why wasn't the SPP underwritten/ someone has just bought a parcel of the oppies is Aust , look like a reader from here, hmmmm !

[wk6332]

digger , If what you are saying why wasn't the SPP underwritten/ someone has just bought a parcel of the oppies is Aust , look like a reader from here, hmmmm !

well the seller is a reader from here anyway.

[Bluemanarc]

I was trying to buy another $25,000 of shares today.

But cant put my buy order in to ASB Sharetrader, is that due to the AGM tomorrow ?

[suse]

I have to admit to sitting on the fence on this SPP as well. I bought in at the top (2.8) so I'm already in the red and I dont even know if I want to throw an extra thousand at it, but it definitely wont be $15k. Having said that, naturally I want them to suceed as it's good for all of us!

[stones]

I have to admit to sitting on the fence on this SPP as well. I bought in at the top (2.8) so I'm already in the red and I dont even know if I want to throw an extra thousand at it, but it definitely wont be $15k. Having said that, naturally I want them to suceed as it's good for all of us!
Have done exactly the same as I'm sure many others are oin the same boat. My thoughts re last sentence also.

[Fatboyj]

Fence sitter here too, digger, your thoughts after the meeting and why you encouraged us to take up the spp.

[digger]

Fence sitter here too, digger, your thoughts after the meeting and why you encouraged us to take up the spp.

Matt Hill was as you can imagine was careful on how he answered some questions,so my points here are as I read them between the lines. I get the clear feeling that there was some AUS offers for placement but as Matt said several times it would not go down too well if Current shareholders were not first offered these shares under the SPP as is now in offering.If there is any doubt on that impression then ask at the AGM. I have taken mine up in full and you can take it from there. Just do not sulk afterwards if the SP next year is much higher when the bulk sampling is in full swing. We all have to do our own research so take my word with little regard compared to yours.
We spent some time talking about the concentrator mainly because I wanted to.They are looking at three including a cheap out from China. we all agreed that the one from Germany would be better as it will work for more than three days in a row without falling apart.
Also some discussion about the elections some of which I can not post here. Matt is much less concerned about a Green govt with Labor in toe as I am. Agrees that we should sue the Govt for considerable costs if the Greens shut down the mine.Currently labor says what ever is in place will stay that way and only new projects on conservation land will be refused. if you have any reservations about the SPP I would say it should be here. Ask Matt at the AGM
I would also like you to ask at the AGM what happens if we do not get a full mining licence.

My points here are that for several reasons I will not be at the AGM and as I am a large holder Matt decide to talk with me,as I am near the mine and have a family history of mining and mining goings on.
Go to the meeting if possible
Cheers all

[mibo]

The SPP form doesn't mention emailing the application in, only posting. This doesn't allow much time to hear the outcome of the meeting and then rely on NZ Post getting it there in time.

[stones]

Matt Hill was as you can imagine was careful on how he answered some questions,so my points here are as I read them between the lines. I get the clear feeling that there was some AUS offers for placement but as Matt said several times it would not go down too well if Current shareholders were not first offered these shares under the SPP as is now in offering.If there is any doubt on that impression then ask at the AGM. I have taken mine up in full and you can take it from there. Just do not sulk afterwards if the SP next year is much higher when the bulk sampling is in full swing. We all have to do our own research so take my word with little regard compared to yours.
We spent some time talking about the concentrator mainly because I wanted to.They are looking at three including a cheap out from China. we all agreed that the one from Germany would be better as it will work for more than three days in a row without falling apart.
Also some discussion about the elections some of which I can not post here. Matt is much less concerned about a Green govt with Labor in toe as I am. Agrees that we should sue the Govt for considerable costs if the Greens shut down the mine.Currently labor says what ever is in place will stay that way and only new projects on conservation land will be refused. if you have any reservations about the SPP I would say it should be here. Ask Matt at the AGM
I would also like you to ask at the AGM what happens if we do not get a full mining licence.

My points here are that for several reasons I will not be at the AGM and as I am a large holder Matt decide to talk with me,as I am near the mine and have a family history of mining and mining goings on.
Go to the meeting if possible
Cheers all
Well done digger for your explanation on your conservation with Matt Hill which was most enlightening on many aspects. However my decision in post 3155 remains and I will stick with .what I have. Will build up over time when I see fit. May even opt ofr the opts in November!!

[Brain]

The SPP form doesn't mention emailing the application in, only posting. This doesn't allow much time to hear the outcome of the meeting and then rely on NZ Post getting it there in time.

It is a short walk from the meeting to Victoria St West where Computershares'
private bag 92119 is.:)

[cammo]

Can you imagine the class action against the government if a 25 year mining permit was cancelled? Shareholders etc all getting antsy? Labour obviously see that to undo already granted stuff would be immensely costly

[Antipodean]

Very disappointed to see no online application form return. As I'm not in Auckland this will likely prevent me taking up the SPP.

[cammo]

Pay your money. Doesn't matter if the paperwork arrives late

[cammo]

I paid on the day last time and didn't send docs for 5 days last time

[steveb]

If any usefull info comes out of the meeting just use an overnight courier bag,you can track your SPP application that way.

[mibo]

Although the form says, Application forms and cheques received after the closing date may not be processed.
You would think they would have an online process these days

[Antipodean]

I appreciate that NTL may still accept it assuming funds received on time, but by the wording of the offer document they could still decline if the form is not received by closing time. I will have to think on this.

[digger]

Very disappointed to see no online application form return. As I'm not in Auckland this will likely prevent me taking up the SPP.

Rubbish. In these things there is always plenty of leaway for the mail to catch up. Pay on time and send in application ASAP. I have paid and yet not mailed application but even with snail mail as we have it today it will get there before they need it for the concentrator.

These forms for application come from the dark ages before computers and direct crediting so still say things like must be in by such and such a date. In effect legally only the money has to be in on time and if the snail mail takes forever and a day no company would turn down an application if the money is on time.

[Chippie]

I phoned computershare. They will give you an email address you can use to email your form

[Antipodean]

Perhaps I was hasty in my comment digger. In context it was straight after I looked up nz post standard delivery time and note that it "has a delivery target of up to three working days." As I was planning to hear the agm outcomes & digest first, then look to apply Thursday/Friday this sudden realisation that my timeframe wouldn't work caused my issue. This is a big decision for me so having pressure re timeline isn't helping.

So let me retract my words "As I'm not in Auckland this will likely prevent me taking up the SPP" and replace with "I will have to consider this further"

[Antipodean]

I phoned computershare. They will give you an email address you can use to email your form
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier.

Thank you.

[Landyman]

I did one of the past SPP by contacting NTL direct, they took my email attachment as acceptance, and gave me the account to EFT to. Not sure that was 100% the right way to do things, but I got the shares. :-)

[mibo]

I contacted Computershare regarding emailing SPP forms and their reply was:-
Yes you can, please email your forms to ntl@computershare.co.nz

[Bluemanarc]

Looks like a wave coming for NTL shares, pool of sellers at .2c looks to be retreating

Sense a shift in the waters

(sorry that's the limit of my water imagery)

[HumptyDumpty]

I assume you're emailing them a scanned, signed copy of the form... As well as snail mailing them the physical copy?

[mibo]

I assume you're emailing them a scanned, signed copy of the form... As well as snail mailing them the physical copy?

Yes that's right

[ddrone]

Is anyone at the meeting? No presentation submitted to the market as yet.

[gmatt]

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/266202.pdf

I didn't attend the meeting but Hill's report sounds good and positive ...... think they're doing all the right things for the future :)

[Flugenbear]

I emailed NTL couple weeks back as I'm overseas and wanted to be able to email the SPP docs. It's possible, and confirm the address Mibo posted above is the correct one.
Transfer the money the day before and all should be good.

[Paint it Black]

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/266202.pdf

I didn't attend the meeting but Hill's report sounds good and positive ...... think they're doing all the right things for the future :)

I went to the meeting along with 50 or so other shareholders. In my opinion it was a very buoyant meeting with an interesting video inside the mine and a good presentation from Wayne Chowles. My main take was the importance of the proposed concentrator (initially with a pilot plant) to dramatically reduce the extracted ore to just 5% of the excavated volume. By keeping the majority of the excavated waste inside the mine this then significantly increases the volume able to be mined within the bulk sampling consent conditions and accelerates access to the recently confirmed high resource veins over the next 3 years once the bulk sampling period commencement is triggered in December 17. Other advantages of the concentrator is the ability to use lighter vehicles along the access road and being able to cost effectively transport the concentrated ore offshore for processing. Other takes were the water accumulating below Level 12 should be easily pumped out, the lines are still open with Oceania and the Rahu discussions are currently moving slowly but are not managements priorities currently focussed on Talisman.

Any others at the meeting may like to correct or add.

[Brain]

I went to the meeting along with 50 or so other shareholders. In my opinion it was a very buoyant meeting with an interesting video inside the mine and a good presentation from Wayne Chowles. My main take was the importance of the proposed concentrator (initially with a pilot plant) to dramatically reduce the extracted ore to just 5% of the excavated volume. By keeping the majority of the excavated waste inside the mine this then significantly increases the volume able to be mined within the bulk sampling consent conditions and accelerates access to the recently confirmed high resource veins over the next 3 years once the bulk sampling period commencement is triggered in December 17. Other advantages of the concentrator is the ability to use lighter vehicles along the access road and being able to cost effectively transport the concentrated ore offshore for processing. Other takes were the water accumulating below Level 12 should be easily pumped out, the lines are still open with Oceania and the Rahu discussions are currently moving slowly but are not managements priorities currently focussed on Talisman.

Any others at the meeting may like to correct or add.

good summary but

Extracted ore was a 1 to 5 ratio not 5%

[digger]

good summary but

Extracted ore was a 1 to 5 ratio not 5%

Thanks for that summary PIB. Yes the concentrator is a must and I sure hope they get enough money to install it.I have done my bit. It just solves so many problems and makes the business more sound.
I would think the anti miners would agree with less taken out of the mine ,but in truth some are just anti for the sake of being anti. Probably gives some meaning to there otherwise directionless lives.
Was there any talk about when the company will become cash flow positive ?

[Paint it Black]

good summary but

Extracted ore was a 1 to 5 ratio not 5%

I do remember 1 in 20 ratios being quoted by Wayne for the output from the concentrator which would then be sent for final processing. I agree a 1 in 5 ratio was also mentioned by the supporting board member but I took this to be a more conservative number for the 'tailings' which could not be retained in the mine. Anything more you can add would be appreciated. In any case even 1 in 5 is a big advantage.

[Fatboyj]

OK the clock is ticking on this, lucky we can email the copy through.

After the info form the AGM, are there any fence sitters here persuaded to go in on the spp or give it a miss?

I certainly wont be going the full 15k, but have 5k or 10k to maybe go in. I've given myself a deadline if not done by 5pm today then will leave it.

[Brain]

Yes the concentrator will be a huge leap forward. My underlying impression is that Hill and Chowles are both straight talkers and that is important to me as an investor. I was sitting on the fence before the meeting but now have decided to take up my full entitlement. I also believe that there will be a share placement to raise the funds if sufficient $ are not raised by the SPP.

Hopefully when I attend the AGM next year I will be a happy and a much wealthier cat.

[cyclist]

The "waste" output from the concentrator (i.e. the rock, I guess, with reduced gold content). Where are they putting it? Is there parts of the mine they are happy to block off access to by putting is there, or does it somehow go back where it was taken from, but still allow access deeper into the mine?

[Paint it Black]

The "waste" output from the concentrator (i.e. the rock, I guess, with reduced gold content). Where are they putting it? Is there parts of the mine they are happy to block off access to by putting is there, or does it somehow go back where it was taken from, but still allow access deeper into the mine?

Yes indeed that is what we heard at the meeting. Obviously a lot of careful planning needs to be done to sequence this.

[suse]

OK the clock is ticking on this, lucky we can email the copy through.

After the info form the AGM, are there any fence sitters here persuaded to go in on the spp or give it a miss?

I certainly wont be going the full 15k, but have 5k or 10k to maybe go in. I've given myself a deadline if not done by 5pm today then will leave it.

I'm still fence sitting because I'm in the red now and really not sure if I want to throw more money at it. Am feeling like I am on a run of bad investment decisions at the moment so would like to stop that trainwreck. :)

[Chippie]

I went to the meeting along with 50 or so other shareholders. In my opinion it was a very buoyant meeting with an interesting video inside the mine and a good presentation from Wayne Chowles. My main take was the importance of the proposed concentrator (initially with a pilot plant) to dramatically reduce the extracted ore to just 5% of the excavated volume. By keeping the majority of the excavated waste inside the mine this then significantly increases the volume able to be mined within the bulk sampling consent conditions and accelerates access to the recently confirmed high resource veins over the next 3 years once the bulk sampling period commencement is triggered in December 17. Other advantages of the concentrator is the ability to use lighter vehicles along the access road and being able to cost effectively transport the concentrated ore offshore for processing. Other takes were the water accumulating below Level 12 should be easily pumped out, the lines are still open with Oceania and the Rahu discussions are currently moving slowly but are not managements priorities currently focussed on Talisman.

Any others at the meeting may like to correct or add.

Below are my personal notes from the meeting

Amount of SPP funding will determine how fast NTL can progress the mine. Concentrators are a big part of the plan and need funding. My understanding is that they would need one for each work-face which potentially looks like 2 or possibly 3 at this stage.

They have been talking to Oceania about TOLL treatment; there are a lot of options including Fiji where Matthew has visited an operation

They stated they are confident “no issues” with regards to water
• “Closed circuit for everything including water”. Waikato regional council already approved as part of mining permit
• Oceania pumps the entire water table at their mine.

Silver ratio to gold is 4 to 1. Prior to the meeting one of the geologists said that Gold is the priority to recover so they may only recover 2/3 of the silver (ratio will come out with the final plan)
Starting work in December, first results of Bulk sampling will be in January

They have a 25 year mining permit. The impact (environmental?) has been assessed as minor under the district plan and they will continue to comply with the Crown Minerals and District plan requirements after the bulk sampling phase.

They are working with HDC on number of trucks per day. Matt mentioned they have 4 to 9 trucks per day approved under the current agreement and that there are no limits for the bulk sampling phase.

It was invaluable flying up to Auckland for the day to talk to the Management team face to face. My personal opinion is that they know what they are doing and I will take up all of my SPP entitlement.

It was also good to meet Clints and Mibo after the meeting. Sharetrader contributors were well represented along with Paint it Black. Robbo24, Pancake and DemGainzz (from Hotcopper) were there also (just looking at their posts on hotcopper)

Please feel free to correct any comments above if you heard it differently to me

[Fatboyj]

I'm still fence sitting because I'm in the red now and really not sure if I want to throw more money at it. Am feeling like I am on a run of bad investment decisions at the moment so would like to stop that trainwreck. :)

Seriously know the feeling. MPG and Oceania have gone red. Only saving grace of AIR is being hammered too. Oh the woe.

Lets get National back into power, pipeline fixed, oldies buying double glazing in their retirement units. An beatniks finding another frog to save somewhere else.

[Pipi]

I was fence sitting, but yesterday purchased my SPP. I only got $3k worth as life is a bit expensive at present and that was all I could scrape together, would of got more if I had the spare cash. Yes I could of purchased cheaper on market, but my thoughts were the company needs the money and support to get this things rolling, so decided to do my bit to help.

[Chippie]

I was fence sitting, but yesterday purchased my SPP. I only got $3k worth as life is a bit expensive at present and that was all I could scrape together, would of got more if I had the spare cash. Yes I could of purchased cheaper on market, but my thoughts were the company needs the money and support to get this things rolling, so decided to do my bit to help.

The options will also have some value. My own calculations make me think I am better off with the SPP + options if shareprice on market is 1.9 cents or more. Of course I am making assunmptions that the share price will be more than 5.5 cents in the next couple of years :)

[Landyman]

I wasn't able to attend - devils advocate questions

How much does a concerntrator cost? Sounds pretty big.
Why is it necessary to use shareholder funds instead of bank debt to fund? Have the banks turned them down/don't want the gamble?
If NTL was funded to 2020 (I think it was), the concerntrator wasnt necessary when this comment was made?

Now with glass half full.
Thanks for the updates, very helpful, and things sound promising. I have jumped off the fence, and will buy in, though cant afford to go the whole hog at the moment.
Again, thanks for the notes from the meeting.

[Yoda]

Thank you all for commenting about the meeting. Encouraged to know that you came away positively I wish everyone all the best and a very merry Christmas this year hopefully haha.... hopefully it will bump us up the share Trader game ratings.. I did manage to sell some at 0.027 and got them back at .019 . I wonder how the share price will fair after Saturday

[Chippie]

From what I understand there is alot of options and cost differences with concentrators. Apparently they can be customised depending on the specific material coming out of the mine.

NTL is funded to continue the bulk sampling etc to 2020. But they want the addtioanl funding to do things faster as per the SPP offer document. The concentrators are a change and require the SPP money, but they are smply to get alot more gold out during the bulk sampling which also reduces the costs per ounce.

Bank funding was qustioned at the meeting. The reponse was that banks will require the financial feasibility study (including mining plan?) to be completed the banks loan money.

[Leftfield]

....Bank funding was qustioned at the meeting. The reponse was that banks will require the financial feasibility study (including mining plan?) to be completed the banks loan money.

Don't all shareholders deserve this sort of info'?? IMHO the SPP offer document does not provide enough information for share holders to make a reasoned decision.

[Mbro]

[QUOTE=Chippie;685232]The options will also have some value. My own calculations make me think I am better off with the SPP + options if shareprice on market is 1.9 cents or more. Of course I am making assunmptions that the share price will be more than 5.5 cents in the next couple of years :)[/QUO

AGM: I attended the meeting from Wellington too, to assess SPP. I am now taking it up. Its a good deal I calculate and as Chippie - who I met & discussed with at AGM - and previous commentator state, concentrator is likely a great step forward. Funding it supports company plans for rapid progress. I am in favour.

I read yesterday between the lines that what shareholders don't take has ready buyers, they are just offering us first.

Concentration 1:4 or maybe 1:5. Cashflow would go through the roof over this 20,000 cu m2 period.

The board & staff are committed and seem to know what they are doing. A lot of finance skills there I note.

There is probably a lot, & I mean a lot more than 400,000 oz in our mine, very rich ore, and most likely cheaply extracted. Remember that rock came out of level 14 with 1500 gms/ton gold in 1914. Keep that in mind. I see $12m profit - $600/oz profit on 20,000 oz - even without concentrator - a year likely soon, & on P/E of say 10 that's $120m cap, 5c/share with 2.7 b shares. just my guess.

Bank finance for a new stage gold miner anywhere in the world? Not a snowballs chance. Equity or nothing, lol

[Mbro]

Concentrator waste: Stated as backfill or interestingly, they said it could possibly be sold as road gravel!

[Fatboyj]

Just getting together a preliminary list before pulling the trigger. I'll do a direct credit if it happens later today.
I have 11k ready to go, to get a nice round no. of 500k shares.

And can someone please reconfirm this is the email to send the electronic version too before the I send out the physical copy.
ntl@computershare.co.nz (ntl@computershare.co.nz)

tia, a few butterflies doing this.

[mibo]

Just getting together a preliminary list before pulling the trigger. I'll do a direct credit if it happens later today.
I have 11k ready to go, to get a nice round no. of 500k shares.

And can someone please reconfirm this is the email to send the electronic version too before the I send out the physical copy.
ntl@computershare.co.nz (ntl@computershare.co.nz)

tia, a few butterflies doing this.

Yes that email address is correct. I just applied for full allocation and sent it to that email.

[Flugenbear]

Anyone want to take a guess to what will be raised?
I'd be surprised if it was much more than 2 million.
Mibo you mentioned that you thought they have other investors ready to take up the slack? A gut feeling or more than that? I'm surprised they wouldn't announce that to the market as it would guarantee the success of the SPP.

[Chippie]

Matthew Hill mentioned a few times that they want to give opportunities to the current shareholders first. Alot of other companies would not have felt obligated to look after the small shareholders.

But if the company wants capital to advance things then they are sure to be open to other options.

There would be plenty of mining companies interested in Talisman, especially with the grades to date.

[cammo]

me and four friends all took up ours , one only took up 10k and another 12k, rest full.

[cammo]

I wonder if they know about the new non-cyanide leaching patented enviroleach process for gold refining? Dunno if worksafe would like cyanide carbon pulp gig anymore? Or just the sell for gold and silver credits trick in the short term? hopefully so, cash positive asap.

[chippy52]

I think your a bit light @ 2mil. Even if half took part @ say applied for $7500 worth that would be closer to 10 mil.

[digger]

When the dust settles I say over 10 million,possibly the lot. By that I mean this SPP and the after placements which are probably in the pipeline before this SPP started.

[Fatboyj]

When will NTL release a figure of how much was raised? And if they don't get as much as they wanted, what will be their next step?

[cammo]

from the greens website it looks as though they have the same issue in front of them. nothing said about existing stuff.....too expensive to change; wait til the permit runs out

Commit to no new coal mines, fracking or deep-sea oil and gas drilling.

[Fatboyj]

Commit to no new coal mines, fracking or deep-sea oil and gas drilling.




As long as gold is off their radar then our lentil splitting hairy armpit friends can protest what they like. Hell I'll grow a beard and plat my hair to join in their protests.

[HumptyDumpty]

Subscribed the $10k I could spare. Things look solid! Good luck to all.

[Mbro]

There have been occasional negative posts here about those that do not want mining. I was impressed by Matt Hills' media response, that peaceful protest was respected. Can I suggest that it is a good idea to allow others to hold their own views without belittling or denigration. Mining shareholders may have their unpleasant, unkind or uncaring comments on this forum brought up in future as for why NTL does not care about the community, the environment or anything but money. I, DOC & HDC obviously believe otherwise, but it may take time for others to understand this venture is only opening an existing mine & processing sensitively off site. I suggest shareholders be respectful in our comments about opponents - even if one does not agree. Better yet to say nothing :-)

[Mbro]

tell me if these are bad guestimates: 2000 shareholders offered about 700,000 shares each. Total 1.5 billion. I believe NTL can only new issue 30% of 2 billion? 700 m? I guess uptake of 500 m. NTL immediately will sell balance - & maybe more, off market - to other parties.


uptak: looking for $15m
Matthew Hill mentioned a few times that they want to give opportunities to the current shareholders first. Alot of other companies would not have felt obligated to look after the small shareholders.

But if the company wants capital to advance things then they are sure to be open to other options.

There would be plenty of mining companies interested in Talisman, especially with the grades to date.

[Flugenbear]

When the dust settles I say over 10 million,possibly the lot. By that I mean this SPP and the after placements which are probably in the pipeline before this SPP started.
That would be a great outcome IMHO.
I hope you're right, this money will obviously move things forward at a much better pace and more economically.
I'll stick with 2 million from the current shareholders and hope they can place shortfall else where.
Will be very happy to be proved wrong and see a better uptake next week.

[Brain]

The mood on this thread has changed considerably compared to a week ago. Mbro's comments above about being respectful of people who are anti mining as they are entitled to their views are very important . I for one hope this mine is very profitable and with that I expect that the ecology of the mountain can be improved and the Karanghahake community and surrounds will see a lot of benefit. Responsible mining must be at the forefront. This mine has to be a win win for everybody. I am sure the board and management genuinely see it this way.

[Bluemanarc]

The mood on this thread has changed considerably compared to a week ago. Mbro's comments above about being respectful of people who are anti mining as they are entitled to their views are very important . I for one hope this mine is very profitable and with that I expect that the ecology of the mountain can be improved and the Karanghahake community and surrounds will see a lot of benefit. Responsible mining must be at the forefront. This mine has to be a win win for everybody. I am sure the board and management genuinely see it this way.

Yes that is all good, I have 2 tramps planned down their in October, one a gold prospecting one.
And I am certainly in favour of keepingNZ green and beautiful.

But that doesn't mean I will take it easy on the loony toon activists protesting at the gates because they have too much time on their hands and no day job.

[Brain]

Yes that is all good, I have 2 tramps planned down their in October, one a gold prospecting one.
And I am certainly in favour of keepingNZ green and beautiful.

But that doesn't mean I will take it easy on the loony toon activists protesting at the gates because they have too much time on their hands and no day job.

There is nothing to be gained by criticising these people. Do you think you can change their minds with that approach?

[digger]

Concentrator waste: Stated as backfill or interestingly, they said it could possibly be sold as road gravel!

Seems crazy to me . The idea of the concentrator was that the 20000 tonnes a year would be more gold and less waist. are we to get an exemption for this road gravel so it is not counted . Until that is sorted it is best backed filled in some tunnel not having any gold.

[Brain]

The bulk sampling stage should be very interesting . 20,000 cubic meters per year = 50,000 tonnes/annum . If the mined gold grade is proved to be good and the concentrator is implemented then some very basic maths puts us in the ball park of a very profitable mine.

[cammo]

If we say they get out 50k tpa (20kcubm) concentrated to only 25% of its original that would be 200ktpa equivalent removed ore.

Assuming they therefore have 2/3of an ounce per ton

And sell it on quick unrefined at $1000 per ton

And costs are $600 per ton

400 per ton * 0.66 * 200000 = 56 millions of dollars.

[stones]

MKTUPDTE: NTL: TALISMAN ACQUIRES 80% OF RAHU FROM NEWCREST (https://www.anzshareandbondtrading.co.nz/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4533984)

Out of the blue...

[Clints]

MKTUPDTE: NTL: TALISMAN ACQUIRES 80% OF RAHU FROM NEWCREST (https://www.anzshareandbondtrading.co.nz/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4533984)

Out of the blue...

So that's what the SPP was for :)

[Fatboyj]

To a lay gold mine investor, what does this mean?

[stones]

To a lay gold mine investor, what does this mean?
Ont know FBJ. Im one of you. Looks most interesting

[Stumpynuts]

To a lay gold mine investor, what does this mean?

It means there's gold in them hills!

[Clints]

Wonder what they paid?

[Brain]

If we say they get out 50k tpa (20kcubm) concentrated to only 25% of its original that would be 200ktpa equivalent removed ore.

Assuming they therefore have 2/3of an ounce per ton

And sell it on quick unrefined at $1000 per ton

And costs are $600 per ton

400 per ton * 0.66 * 200000 = 56 millions of dollars.

Yeah there are a lot of ways this can be analysed but what I have noticed is that it is very hard to do an analysis that makes this mine look anything other than very profitable.

[Stumpynuts]

Rahu potentially holding a further 225,000 oz. and 902,000 oz. gold?