SeaDragon [Archive] - Sharetrader Forum

ari

22-04-2013, 09:44 PM

Could not find thread for SeaDragon......hence this new one......
A $2.5 million cash injection has provided fish oil producer SeaDragon Marine Oils the scale to treble its capacity and expand into global markets, an investment research firm says.

An Edison Investment Research report on the Nelson-based company suggested a new fish oils plant, scheduled to be completed next year, would allow SeaDragon to diversify into omega-3 oils production.

The report said "the corner has been turned" for SeaDragon, with a $2.5m boost from an Australian bioscience investor providing the catalyst for expansion.

SeaDragon is the largest producer of refined fish oils in Australasia, but the report noted the company's historical financial performance was not promising.

Omega-3 oils were in strong demand worldwide, whereas the company's squalene production was predominantly sold in Asia, the report said.

The company produces hundreds of tonnes of refined hoki, and shark oil dietary supplements.

Last July, SeaDragon announced a three-way deal with Bioscience Managers and Auckland-listed investment company Claridge Capital.

Bioscience Managers agreed to invest $2.5m for 312.5 million shares in Claridge on the condition Claridge completed the purchase of SeaDragon.

Edison Investment Research analyst Jane Anscombe said the investment had seen the company recover from a long period of cash constraints and unprofitable numbers.

The company currently boasted net cash of $200,000 and a $3.75m shareholding in Snakk Media.

"SeaDragon is at a turning point, with a restored balance sheet improving profitability and strong demand from a large and growing market," Anscombe said.

"The real investment story is the potential for the group in the much larger omega-3 market."

Edison expected SeaDragon's revenue for the five and a half months to March 2013 would be $9.3m.

It said, however, that delays to the installation of the new plant, caused by supplier failure, had been frustrating.

The new plant was expected to be operational next year and at full production in 2015.

Edison's report said SeaDragon's outlook was tempered by caution over whether the company could consistently trade profitably.

"The strength of market demand is such that, unusually, SeaDragon's competition is for raw materials rather than for customers," it said.

"Its order books are full and we see upside to profit estimates."

Contact Hamish McNicol
Business reporter

Snow Leopard

23-04-2013, 12:02 AM

As I said on the other one (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9142-SEA-Sea-Dragon&p=403099&viewfull=1#post403099)

Best Wishes
The Dragon Slayers Cat

ari

30-04-2013, 09:00 PM

The reason I started this thread was because search did not throw up link.......now I see why.
Registered name is Seadragon NOT Sea Dragon!

ari

06-05-2013, 11:00 AM

Is this the 'Real Oil' this time?.....it's been a long road > Regal Salmon>Queen Charlotte Holdings>Aquaria 21>AQL Holdings>Certified Organics>CER Group>Claridge Capital and now SeaDragon!

kizame

06-05-2013, 12:16 PM

Well things look like being on the up,at least for a while.They will probably beat their revenue forecast by nearly 42%.
Lets see what happens.Yep and a snakk holding to boot.

Snow Leopard

07-05-2013, 06:29 PM

And up to 3c on turnover of 300,000 shares ($9,000)

This, significantly, could see me in positive territory in the NZX competition :scared:.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

thedigger

21-05-2013, 06:23 PM

Jasemc

28-05-2013, 10:04 PM

Looks like SP support around 3cents. Do you think it's share holding in SNK will drag it higher?

Snow Leopard

28-05-2013, 10:36 PM

Looks like SP support around 3cents. Do you think it's share holding in SNK will drag it higher?

Did you know that at $0.030 SeaDragon has a market capitalization of $36,951,997 ?

And did you know that at $0.136 Snakk has a market capitalization of $34,656,748 ?

and did you also know that SeaDragon have 25,000,000 Snakk shares currently worth $3,400,000, which is less than 10% of the market capitalization of SeaDragon ?

furthermore did you know that a change of $0.049 (4.9c) in the market price of Snakk changes the value of SeaDragons holding in Snakk by $1,225,000 which is equivalent to a $0.001 (0.1c) change in the market price of SeaDragon ?

So do you now know that a 4.9c change in Snakk affects SeaDragon by 0.1c ?

Finally did you know that Llamas are bigger than Frogs ?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Jasemc

28-05-2013, 10:43 PM

Thanks for the info about LLamas. So sea dragon will sell snakk to fund their new plant. And ants are smaller than elephants !

whatsup

29-05-2013, 10:15 AM

read the edison report for a valuation range taking into account the snk holding
Zoosie, can you post that link?

whatsup

29-05-2013, 10:57 AM

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/company/seadragon-marine-oils

Don't know if it will work or not without signing in.

I strongly suggest signing up. It's free, and you can get access to SEA, SNK and CRP.;)

Thank you.

ari

30-05-2013, 03:48 PM

SEA
30/05/2013 15:35
FLLYR

REL: 1535 HRS SeaDragon Limited

FLLYR: SEA: SEADRAGON EXCEEDS REVENUE FORECASTS

30 May 2013

NZX & MEDIA RELEASE

FINANCIAL RESULTS FOR THE 12 MONTHS TO 31 MARCH 2013

SEADRAGON EXCEEDS REVENUE FORECASTS

Australasia's largest refiner and blender of high-quality,
internationally-certified concentrated Omega-3 fish oils SeaDragon (NZX:SEA)
today reports good progress for financial year ending March 31 2013.

Despite adverse conditions in the supply of raw materials, the financial
results have exceeded revenue forecasts released as part of the reverse
takeover of SeaDragon by the company's predecessor Claridge Capital in
October of last year.

Sales for the year to 31 March 2013 rose to $9 million from $2.3 million in
the same period last year when SeaDragon was a private company. In the year
to 31 March 2012, Claridge Capital reported sales of $15,000.

Losses before tax for the period reduced to $0.29 million from a loss before
tax of $0.71 million in 2012 when SeaDragon was a private company. Claridge
Capital reported a net loss of $0.52 million. At the time of the reverse
takeover SeaDragon forecast sales of $6.21 million and a loss before tax of
$0.54 million.

SeaDragon Marine Oils Chief Executive Ross Keeley said: "During the period we
faced significant disruptions preventing the timely receipt of raw material
and therefore produced lower volumes of Squalene than anticipated.

"However, thanks to the flexibility of our Nelson manufacturing plant and our
reputation in international markets we were able to make up the shortfall
with new, albeit lower margin, contracts to sell Omega-3 rich krill oil."

Profit attributable to shareholders for the group rose to $3.354 million up
from a loss of $0.515 million due a significant rise in the market value of
SeaDragon's stake in smartphone & tablet advertising group SNAKK Media,
inherited as part of SeaDragon's NZX listing in October.

Mr Keeley said SeaDragon's transition to the NZX and the associated
recapitalisation of the business had provided a considerable boost to the
business, putting in place strong foundation for growth. "SeaDragon
Marine Oils has had sufficient working capital to fund raw material purchases
to ensure that supply matches demand, hence the massive increase in revenue,"
Mr Keeley said.

"The business has also been repositioned to ensure flexibility exists in
processing capability to take advantage of new product and customer
opportunities. This has resulted in processing contracts being negotiated for
the production of Krill Oil.

"Relationships with suppliers remain strong, with increased availability of
sustainable raw material over recent months. As a consequence new market and
customer opportunities have arisen.

"The omega 3 market continues to enjoy favourable growth internationally at
7.3% CAGR with the Asia Pacific region leading the charge with forecast CAGR
of 13.4% over the 2011 - 2016, 5 year period.

"The business is therefore well positioned to participate in this market
given its geographic location and the recent approval of the board to proceed
with the refined fish oil processing facility, leveraging off the cache
attached to health products sourced from New Zealand.

The earn-out shares per the sale and purchase agreement for the acquisition
of SDMO's business by SeaDragon, will be allotted to the earnout shareholders
by 31 July 2013.

ENDS

Contact
Ross Keeley
Chief Executive
Tel: +64 29 288 8882

About SeaDragon (www.seadragon.co.nz)
Nelson, New Zealand-based SeaDragon Marine Oils is Australasia's largest
refiner and blender of high-quality, internationally-certified concentrated
Omega-3 fish oils, and fractions. Our oils are sourced from fish caught in
the clean and pure waters around New Zealand, in the Southern Ocean, and
elsewhere. We have more than 20 years' experience processing fish oils and we
are recognised for the quality and purity of our products. We supply health
supplement manufacturers around the world to meet the burgeoning demand for
pure, high-quality fish oils, which are scientifically proven to deliver
significant human health benefits such as lowering the risk of heart disease,
improving brain function and joint health. The majority of our supply is
exported.
End CA:00236881 For:SEA Type:FLLYR Time:2013-05-30 15:35:04

ari

30-05-2013, 03:52 PM

Great news, but my 102,379 shares, pale into insignificance when you see they have 1,231,733,227 on issue!

blah

30-05-2013, 07:11 PM

Snow Leopard

30-05-2013, 07:23 PM

I'm struggling to understand what the following means - perhaps somebody can translate it for me?

The earn-out shares per the sale and purchase agreement for the acquisition
of SDMO's business by SeaDragon, will be allotted to the earnout shareholders
by 31 July 2013.

Not checked the details but probably the agreement says that if SeaDragon exceeded a certain level of sales/profit/whatever then extra shares would be given to the original sellers. Basically the initial purchase price has gone up.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

blah

30-05-2013, 07:32 PM

Wow... the numbers are amazing:

Revenue grew by 59893%
Gross profit increased by 7700%
Losses reduced by 43%

Net Profit now 3.4m compared to a loss of 0.5m the previous year.

Not bad in my opinion. I would think next year would be another wonderful year as their expanded capacity comes into operation.

janner

30-05-2013, 08:13 PM

QUOTE=ari;409841]Great news, but my 102,379 shares, pale into insignificance when you see they have 1,231,733,227 on issue![/QUOTE]

Ever wonder why they have so many low value shares ???..

Why do they not do what NPX did when their shares entered the " Penny Dreadful " arena..

The more suckers that can be drawn in the greater the profits for the very small number of original investors..

Will you be able to use them in margin trading ??? ( Not to be encouraged )..

Of course there will be success for the odd one or two..

Buyer beware comes to mind..

ari

30-05-2013, 08:27 PM

[QUOTE

Ever wonder why they have so many low value shares ???..

Why do they not do what NPX did when their shares entered the " Penny Dreadful " arena..

The more suckers that can be drawn in the greater the profits for the very small number of original investors..

Will you be able to use them in margin trading ??? ( Not to be encouraged )..

Of course there will be success for the odd one or two..

Buyer beware comes to mind..[/QUOTE]

Yep, I know exactly what you are saying, I've been tied to this lot since Aquaria21 days and I lost heavily, but one day I might just get a little back.
Talk about creative accounting.....I've seen it all!

janner

30-05-2013, 08:46 PM

[QUOTE

Ever wonder why they have so many low value shares ???..

Why do they not do what NPX did when their shares entered the " Penny Dreadful " arena..

The more suckers that can be drawn in the greater the profits for the very small number of original investors..

Will you be able to use them in margin trading ??? ( Not to be encouraged )..

Of course there will be success for the odd one or two..

Buyer beware comes to mind..

Yep, I know exactly what you are saying, I've been tied to this lot since Aquaria21 days and I lost heavily, but one day I might just get a little back.
Talk about creative accounting.....I've seen it all![/QUOTE]

Are you into the " Other ".. Low ball shares .. I.e. WDT SPY etc.. ??

Why do you do it ??..

GREED ??

ari

30-05-2013, 09:04 PM

[QUOTE

Are you into the " Other ".. Low ball shares .. I.e. WDT SPY etc.. ??

Why do you do it ??..

GREED ??[/QUOTE]

NO I Am NOT, why the attack, I take offence to such comments, don't be such a dick!

janner

30-05-2013, 09:04 PM

and I lost heavily, but one day I might just get a little back.
Talk about creative accounting.....I've seen it all!

SO !!!... Why.. ??.. EGO !!.. You have been around for long enough to understand more than the basics..

Not a good example to the " Newbies ".. :-) They come here looking to make money !!..

Would you encourage them to invest in Sea Dragon ??

Yeah if they are willing to lose their money !!.. They could make a fortune.. Insert Tui Ad..

janner

30-05-2013, 09:06 PM

Not trying to be a dick .. Need no help :-)0

Just wondering why people chase such silly underfunded companies .. and encourage others to do so ..

janner

30-05-2013, 09:27 PM

blah

30-05-2013, 09:54 PM

Exactly.. It is only money to me and Thee.. Moosie..

Not to Newbies..

Over exuberant wording for Low Ball companies is not helping to expand the investor base ..

You know when... You know when not to..

what makes you think that all low ball companies are bad and bound to fail? Could you not apply the same arguments (whatever they are) to sub 10c shares; sub 50c shares; sub $1 shares; sub $5 shares etc?

Have you ever thought of analysing companies based on their own merit rather than making an overarching argument?

janner

30-05-2013, 10:04 PM

what makes you think that all low ball companies are bad and bound to fail? Could you not apply the same arguments (whatever they are) to sub 10c shares; sub 50c shares; sub $1 shares; sub $5 shares etc?

Have you ever thought of analysing companies based on their own merit rather than making an overarching argument?

I did not say that they would all fail.. And yes I can and do apply the same arguments to all IPO's..

Also to any investment that I make.. As so many on here do..

It is your enthusiasm for a low ball company that I question..

It is now over to the " Newbies " that read this to make up their own mind..

Lesson number one.. For them..

janner

30-05-2013, 10:06 PM

Lesson number one... DYOR...

Lesson INFINITUM.. . DYOR..

blah

30-05-2013, 10:25 PM

you need to strip out the snakk shares part of that before stating that. much, much less impressive then...

Maybe I'm not reading the financial statements correctly, but from what I see, even if we strip out SNK out of the statements I think it is still very very impressive. I'll need to see more detailed statements and the notes of the statements to be sure though.

Revenue in FY 2012 was only $15,000; FY 2013 was $8,999,000. From my limited knowledge of accounting, asset appreciation shouldn't be treated as revenue; or at least should be treated as a separate item. Lets be charitable and say that it was indeed included in the revenue figures. Seadragon owns 25m shares in SNK; the share price on 31 March was 0.15c - valuing SEA's stake in Snakk at 3.75m at that date. Even if we take the entire $3.75m out of revenue (let alone the appreciation over the previous year's valuation) we are stll left with revenue a healthy bit over $15,000: about 35000% revenue growth.

However, I have a hunch that this SNK value appreciation has not been included in revenue, since the cost of sales of 7.8m suggests that the 9m revenue solely is trading revenue.

Having said that, I don't know why there has been no cost of sales for the 2012 year.

I also note that in the balance sheet, the 3.9m figure under the heading "Assets classified as held for sale" I suspect is Snakk

janner

30-05-2013, 10:34 PM

Hunch !!!..

Will say no more..

blah

30-05-2013, 10:44 PM

It is your enthusiasm for a low ball company that I question..

I don't want to get into a heated argument, but it is hard not to be enthused when some of us actually own the stock (including myself); some of us cannot care less whether this stock is a low, medium or high ball; when the results released today are promising if not totally exciting.

You can criticise my enthusiasm all you want, but at least be constructive about it. Labelling Seadragon as low ball is all but constructive.

You seem to be of the opinion that low ball shares are dodgy in some way or another. It might well be, but at the same time any stock carries risk and could fail miserably due to exogenous factors outside of shareholders' control. Look at Rakon; look at FPA; look at Air NZ before they were bailed out.

As for newbies, they should know better to filter out baseless enthusiasm which you are suggesting I have. They should not even be looking at these risky stocks at all. If they lose hard-earned money, then I guess they will have to learn the hard way. While I will be sympathetic, it should not stop me from suppressing the genuine enthusiasm I have, especially when I feel I can justify my stance with hard facts and expert-prepared investment reports.

Snow Leopard

30-05-2013, 10:55 PM

My comments in Red:

Maybe I'm not reading the financial statements correctly, but from what I see, even if we strip out SNK out of the statements I think it is still very very impressive. I'll need to see more detailed statements and the notes of the statements to be sure though.

Revenue in FY 2012 was only $15,000 [that was Claridge Capital not SeaDragon]; FY 2013 was $8,999,000. From my limited knowledge of accounting, asset appreciation shouldn't be treated as revenue [it isn't]; or at least should be treated as a separate item [it is]. Lets be charitable and say that it was indeed included in the revenue figures [again it isn't]. Seadragon owns 25m shares in SNK; the share price on 31 March was 0.15c [actually closed at $0.155] - valuing SEA's stake in Snakk at 3.75m at that date. Even if we take the entire $3.75m out of revenue (let alone the appreciation over the previous year's valuation) we are stll left with revenue a healthy bit over $15,000: about 35000% revenue growth.

However, I have a hunch that this SNK value appreciation has not been included in revenue, since the cost of sales of 7.8m suggests that the 9m revenue solely is trading revenue [correct].

Having said that, I don't know why there has been no cost of sales for the 2012 year [2012 is for Claridge not SeaDragon].

I also note that in the balance sheet, the 3.9m figure under the heading "Assets classified as held for sale" I suspect is Snakk [correct]

SeaDragon was reversed in Claridge Capital so the 2012 accounts refer to what was basically a non-trading shell of a company.

Reading the commentary (https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/236881) will help you.

Ignore janner he appears to be drunk in charge of a keyboard.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

janner

30-05-2013, 11:03 PM

janner

30-05-2013, 11:22 PM

A drunken mind speaks the truth,, So they say..

GRIFFIN

31-05-2013, 07:56 AM

SeaDragon may well surprise going forward and the SNK is a handy investment or buffer for them but the high grade fish oil section when fully up and running will be the catalyst for growth.

blah

31-05-2013, 08:43 AM

My comments in Red:

SeaDragon was reversed in Claridge Capital so the 2012 accounts refer to what was basically a non-trading shell of a company.

Reading the commentary (https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/236881) will help you.

Ignore janner he appears to be drunk in charge of a keyboard.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Thanks PT - that clarifies most of the questions I had. It would be good to be able to make a comparison with the Seadragon without the Claridge.

I'll stop wasting my time with Janner, since he still remains unconstructive.

31-05-2013, 09:10 AM

SeaDragon was reversed in Claridge Capital so the 2012 accounts refer to what was basically a non-trading shell of a company.Correct. As such any comparison to last year is misleading.

It will be interesting to see if the statutory accounts consolidate the two companies for the prior year comparables - I am not sure how IFRS works for this. If not, they should to a non IFRS disclosure to assist investors get a true picture of year on year performance.

Re the investment in SNK - interesting that it is disclosed as held for resale (current asset) which should be an indication of how they view the investment. [Edit (this is incorrect, refer post #52) -It also looks as if the revaluation on the shareholding is taken directly to an equity reserve account so is not going through the P&L.]

Balance

31-05-2013, 10:12 AM

Is this the 'Real Oil' this time?.....it's been a long road > Regal Salmon>Queen Charlotte Holdings>Aquaria 21>AQL Holdings>Certified Organics>CER Group>Claridge Capital and now SeaDragon!

I have actually made money on Aquaria 21 and Certified Organics - but itis extremely hard work and it's playing pass the parcel. Too damn hard for my liking.

Meanwhile, as in all investments, check out first who are actually behind the company, what are their motivations and what are their track records.

Enough said in the case of Sea Dragon.

Snow Leopard

31-05-2013, 12:04 PM

...It also looks as if the revaluation on the shareholding is taken directly to an equity reserve account so is not going through the P&L.

Of course at some point I am going to post some massive mistake and you can all tell me I got it wrong but...

If you go back to SeaDragon accounts the revaluation of the Snakk holding is in the Profit & Loss account, $3M65 near the bottom, it is NOT under revenue which is what blah was querying.

As SeaDragon pointed out in their commentary and the accounts show they made a loss of $296k from their marine oil operations, but an overall profit of $3M354 because of the Snakk reval.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

31-05-2013, 12:12 PM

If you go back to SeaDragon accounts the revaluation of the Snakk holding is in the Profit & Loss account, $3M65 near the bottom, it is NOT under revenue which is what blah was querying.You are correct.

Snow Leopard

04-06-2013, 02:35 PM

WARNING ON AN UNSOLICITED OFFER FROM ZERO COMMISSION NZ LTD (https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/237020)

for SeaDragon !

at 2.5c !

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

thedigger

04-06-2013, 06:55 PM

I have actually made money on Aquaria 21 and Certified Organics - but itis extremely hard work and it's playing pass the parcel. Too damn hard for my liking.

Meanwhile, as in all investments, check out first who are actually behind the company, what are their motivations and what are their track records.

Enough said in the case of Sea Dragon.

This is either BS or you are KW, GD, SJ, RG or BW !! because they are the only guys who knew when to "pump & dump".

Balance

05-06-2013, 08:44 AM

This is either BS or you are KW, GD, SJ, RG or BW !! because they are the only guys who knew when to "pump & dump".

Aquaria 21 had a 23 cents put option so as long as you bought under 23 cents, you could not lose.

I foolishly bought into Certified Organics when they started pumping out the story on broomrape in Australia. Foolishly because I should have known better than to trust the company, no matter how good the stotry.

Anyway, the stock went for a run - up 40% in a week on the story. Fortunately I caught wind of the fact that the MD was trying to place some of his shares (to some unsuspecting investors) so I got the hell out.

Made my money and vowed never again.

A vow I have kept and been very happy about my decision.

kizame

05-06-2013, 06:46 PM

Aquaria 21 had a 23 cents put option so as long as you bought under 23 cents, you could not lose.

I foolishly bought into Certified Organics when they started pumping out the story on broomrape in Australia. Foolishly because I should have known better than to trust the company, no matter how good the stotry.

Anyway, the stock went for a run - up 40% in a week on the story. Fortunately I caught wind of the fact that the MD was trying to place some of his shares (to some unsuspecting investors) so I got the hell out.

Made my money and vowed never again.

A vow I have kept and been very happy about my decision.

Good for you!
I was more stupid and held on,hense I'm a sharholder in seahorse manure,I think?

janner

05-06-2013, 07:27 PM

Good for you!
I was more stupid and held on,hense I'm a sharholder in seahorse manure,I think?

There goes the new kitchen :-))

janner

05-06-2013, 07:30 PM

Ooops wrong person.. Had three days of.. Still half asleep.. My reference was .. I thought .. To Kiwigold.. ..

Balance

14-06-2013, 08:53 AM

SeaDragon Appoints Tim Preston Independent Director
8:30am, 14 Jun 2013 | DIRECTOR

SeaDragon Appoints Tim Preston Independent Director
Australasia's largest refiner and blender of high-quality, internationally-certified concentrated Omega-3 fish oils SeaDragon (NZX: SEA) is pleased to welcome Tim Preston to the Board of Directors.

SeaDragon also advises that Don Gibson has resigned as a Director of the Company effective from today, the 14th June 2013.

SeaDragon Chairman Dr Doug Wilson said the addition of Tim Preston as an Independent Non-Executive Director will assist with the growth of SeaDragon, the development of its investor relations programme and introduce SeaDragon to active public-market participants.

"We are fortunate to attract someone of Tim's reputation and experience to the board. Strengthening our relationship with our investors is a key objective of the company. And, at a time of corporate expansion, Tim's financial experience will be invaluable.

Mr Preston was a share broker from 1980 until November 2006 and became a full member of the NZX in 1986. He was a founding member of the NZX Disciplinary committee and a member of the NZ Sharebrokers Advisory Panel.

During his 26 years in broking and investment banking, he held several senior management positions, the last being Managing Director of ASB Securities since its inception in August 1999 until his retirement in 2006. Tim remains involved with several private companies and follows the markets with a keen interest.

Dr Wilson also thanked Mr Gibson for his contribution to the SeaDragon Board and particularly his assistance in listing SeaDragon on the NZX

"Don has been an active participant on the Board of Directors and has assisted SeaDragon in transitioning senior management into the public arena and delivering the internal governance and reporting expected of a publicly-listed Company," Dr Wilson said.

Contact
Malcolm Lindeque
Company Secretary
Telephone: 03 547 0336

About SeaDragon
SeaDragon (NZX:SEA) is Australasia's largest refiner and blender of high-quality, internationally-certified concentrated Omega-3 fish oils, and fractions. Our oils are sourced from fish caught in the clean and pure waters around New Zealand, in the Southern Ocean, and elsewhere. We have more than 20 years' experience processing fish oils and we are recognised for the quality and purity of our products. We supply health supplement manufacturers around the world to meet the burgeoning demand for pure, high-quality fish oils, which are scientifically proven to deliver significant human health benefits such as lowering the risk of heart disease, improving brain function and joint health. The majority of our supply is exported.

Tim Preston was incapacitated with some illness?

Must mean he has fully recovered?

Dentie

02-07-2013, 07:15 AM

....might be just a young business....but even so..... 3 separate breaches of banking covenants. Bank obviously not too worried at this stage.

Jasemc

02-07-2013, 08:43 AM

Probably because of delay in new plant starting ?

....might be just a young business....but even so..... 3 separate breaches of banking covenants. Bank obviously not too worried at this stage.

Snow Leopard

08-07-2013, 12:45 PM

250,000,000 new shares (https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/238319) for a total of about 1.4 Billion

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: picked them for the contest.

iceman

27-08-2013, 09:18 AM

Interesting article on SeaDragon from the Nelson Mail http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/9087304/Fish-oil-demand-drives-expansion

RTM

27-08-2013, 10:09 AM

[QUOTE=Paper Tiger;415708]250,000,000 new shares (https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/238319) for a total of about 1.4 Billion

"Mr Keeley said the shares were "sometimes described as a penny dreadful".

"Having said that, next year it's likely there will be a share consolidation." "

From the Nelson Mail. Must be hard to keep track of 1.4 Billion !

Jasemc

30-10-2013, 09:39 PM

:confused:Watch this one rise. The management seem to be onto it with their plans. Share consolidation next year will help also.

Hold a few as I figured it was worth the risk.

Snow Leopard

04-11-2013, 12:58 PM

up 1 to 4, bids at 3.6.

This is going to win me the ShareTrader competition as it goes ballistic.

Selling SNK shares seems to be regarded as a good move

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: Hold zero shares

Jasemc

04-11-2013, 12:58 PM

amazing what publicity will do!

ari

25-11-2013, 09:41 AM

Trading halt this morning for bookbuild.......next will be Snakk?

Harvey Specter

25-11-2013, 09:54 AM

Had a quick look at their slide deck. Percy must be involved as they are apparently "Well Positioned"

ari

26-11-2013, 07:54 PM

Was hoping for announcement after 5, lets hope there's not another trade halt tomorrow. Bookbuild should have been sorted

blah

27-11-2013, 10:14 AM

issued shares at 1.6c to BioSci managers. Announcement that a SPP will be open soon for shareholders to buy up to $15000 worth at 1.6c. Share price currently down 44% to 2c.

Thoughts?

Jasemc

27-11-2013, 10:16 AM

Harvey Specter

27-11-2013, 10:16 AM

Jasemc

27-11-2013, 10:27 AM

Yes I sold out when they doubled predicting this would happen. I agree an opportunity to buy in for long term hold not sure there is a rush though.

biker

27-11-2013, 10:31 AM

issued shares at 1.6c to BioSci managers. Announcement that a SPP will be open soon for shareholders to buy up to $15000 worth at 1.6c. Share price currently down 44% to 2c.

Thoughts?

Bought a few mil in the placement. Not sure whether I will take more in the SPP.
There will be a consolidation next year. I'm picking 1 for 10 and post consolidation can often be a good time to buy, but I do think 1.6c is a very good entry price, and post consolidation, 16c may look very cheap.
The question is, can they execute their plan successfully, which includes can they get enough raw material?
I think Tim Preston has his head screwed on and I see him as a backable board member. Don't know the calibre of the others or the CEO.
It's a risk v reward scenario for me and at this point I'm happy to take the risk.

jonu

27-11-2013, 02:49 PM

I am very wary nowadays of sp rises on small cap stocks as they seem to be right before an SPP. Careful out there people...

Do you think SNK is immune to this Moosie?

Snow Leopard

27-11-2013, 07:24 PM

Well today's price action has not done anything for my position in the ST contest.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Nigel

28-11-2013, 08:32 AM

Stocks go up and stocks go down. But nothing kills it faster than SPP discount price!!!

yep. In these siuations there's no reason why traders wouldn't sell out up to 937500 shares above 1.6 and buy back in at 1.6. Of course it's going to kill the share price.

Nigel

28-11-2013, 08:38 AM

Assuming the record date has passed of course. Don't go selling out before record date (although if there's no minimum holding requirement you could sell 'almost' out).

Harvey Specter

28-11-2013, 09:06 AM

Assuming the record date has passed of course. Don't go selling out before record date (although if there's no minimum holding requirement you could sell 'almost' out).I dont think record date has been announced yet and the other unknown (I think) is the size of the pool and the chances it will get scaled.

Have a look at BLT. It dropped below its SPP (making the SPP a dog) but after the record date, but before the cut off, the price increased making the SPP a good buy. The great thing about this is it stopped traders entering so their wasn't much dumping post SPP.

kevjws

29-11-2013, 09:22 AM

Harvey Specter

29-11-2013, 09:44 AM

I bought these shares at $0.035 and got my backside punished because of the bookbuild..... I'm quite new to sharemarket and I'm just wondering if it would have been best for me to sell off these shares before they started the bookbuild? Was the huge decrease in share price anticipated? I'm quite upset that this share price has plummeted so much due to the bookbuild.... please help :confused:
It would have been best to sell before the bookbuild but then you didn't know that was going to happen. By holding now, you have the right to participate in the SPP so can get another $15k at the same price as the book build.

kevjws

29-11-2013, 09:45 AM

Just saw the summary of results for the interim and it looks pretty good..... hope it starts going up...

Harvey Specter

29-11-2013, 09:45 AM

Half year is out and it looks ok but IMHO, it is a bit dodgy including the SNK sale in "Continuing operations".

I assume the revenue in the prior year audit figures is from a different business before SEA reversed itself in??

robbo24

29-11-2013, 09:46 AM

Just saw the summary of results for the interim and it looks pretty good..... hope it starts going up...

Is it really good? Does the below quote mean they only made a profit from hocking off Snakk shares?

Profit from continuing operations for the six months rose to $219,000. It is the first profit from continuing operations that SeaDragon's holding company has achieved in more than 13 years and reverses last year's loss of $211,000.

The result was lifted by a $801,000 profit on SeaDragon's August sale of 10 million shares in Snakk Media. The sale represented 40% of the 25 million Snakk shares and in early November, post balance date, we sold a further 10 million shares, reducing our holding to 5 million shares.

kevjws

29-11-2013, 09:49 AM

It would have been best to sell before the bookbuild but then you didn't know that was going to happen. By holding now, you have the right to participate in the SPP so can get another $15k at the same price as the book build.

So when is this SPP? This means I can purchase Seadragons' shares at discounted price and no brokerage fee??

kevjws

29-11-2013, 09:51 AM

Is it really good? Does the below quote mean they only made a profit from hocking off Snakk shares?

Hmmm yea you are right... it seems like they made a large profit from just the sale of shares...:scared:

Harvey Specter

29-11-2013, 10:01 AM

So when is this SPP? This means I can purchase Seadragons' shares at discounted price and no brokerage fee??
Still to be announced but should be before the end of the year. No brokerage.

Some of the reduction in price will be because of the large discount in the placement (ie, they have sold of quick for a profit) but also other holders selling down now as they know they can buy back in at the SPP price. Have a look at BLT so see the short term impact of a SPP on a share like this.

kevjws

29-11-2013, 12:45 PM

Oh sweet.. its recovered a little to 0.026.... Keep going up baby~~~:t_up:

Snow Leopard

29-11-2013, 01:00 PM

The operating profit of $273K does include the $801K realised from the sale of Snakks.

Also the operating cash flow figures do not add up to the total as given:
they have +$123K and my calculator insists on -$363K, I think the $123K may be right but one of the parts is wrong/missing.

But the 'are we not doing wonderfully compared to last year' & 'sharp turnaround' is really pushing reality a bit.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Harvey Specter

29-11-2013, 01:13 PM

The operating profit of $273K does include the $801K realised from the sale of Snakks.yep - a stupid move they will regret next year when they cant match 2013 profitability.

The key issue for these guys is when will the new plant be complete (late 2014? needs to be brought forward, delays will be expensive) and how long till they are operating at capacity (ie. will they have idle capacity or can the sell all they make).

ari

30-11-2013, 09:41 AM

And if this new plant is capable of 5000 tonnes pa. of refined fish oil, that makes for a huge amount of raw material to find.......being 'capable' is the easy part.

biker

30-11-2013, 11:27 AM

Ari, this is a bit old, but with the NZ fishery producing over 120000 tonnes of Hoki per annum, they should be able to work something out over the next 12 months.

Date of publication Jul-Dec 1992
AGRIS Categories Processing of agricultural wastes
AGROVOC terms Unsaturated fatty acids; Byproducts; Canned fish; Fish oils; Tuna; Mackerel; Lipid content; Chemical composition

Language English
Notes 4 ill.; 4 tables
Type Summary
Journal Title Journal of The National Research Council of Thailand
Journal Title Warasan Samnakngan Khana Kammakan Wichai Haeng Chat
ISSN 0028-0011
Volume/Issue v. 24(2) p. 1-11
Abstract (English) Analysis of oil contents and fatty acid composition from byproducts of fish canning and freezing industries were carried out. Oils extracted from the byproducts were tuna oil, mackerel oil, hoki skin oil and hoki fat muscle oil. Tuna oil from the precooking process was 0.1 percent of the whole tuna processed. Oil contents of mackerel byproduct, hoki skin and hoki fat muscle were 5, 15.4 and 28.2 percent on wet basis, respectively. Tuna oil contained the highest omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) among those oils in the amount of 31.9 percent, which the major component of omega-3 PUFA was docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Omega-3 PUFA contents of mackerel, hoki skin and hoki fat muscle oils were found to be comparable in 26.3, 22.6 and 21.0 percent, respectively. Moreover, hoki fat muscle oil contained the highest monounsaturated fatty acids in the amount of 48.2 percent, while hoki skin oil, tuna oil and mackerel oil contained 46.1, 20.2 and 18.6 percent, respectively.
Source:

Thai National AGRIS Centre (Thailand)
PO Box 1084
Bangkok 10903
Contact: Ms Wanphen Srijankul
Tel: +66 2 5611398
Fax: +66 2 5611369
Email: libtnac@ku.ac.th; libarn@ku.ac.th;
URL: http://thaiagris.lib.ku.ac.th/eng/
AGRIS 2013 - FAO of the United Nations

iceman

30-11-2013, 12:06 PM

biker there is no way they can get this sort of quantity from the Hoki fishery. To give you an idea, on a recent trip of a Hoki factory trawler, around 1,800 tonnes of Hoki were caught. During the trip, they produced 68,000 ltrs of fish oil. I understand this was their best oil production in any 1 trip ever.
Some trawlers mix their fish oil with the fuel on their engines and will continue to do so as it is economical and reduces emission footprints.

Some of the Hoki is processed in onshore factories that do not extract oil. Another proportion of it is headed & gutted and then frozen onboard for further processing in China.

I therefore do not think it will be easy (or even possible) or cheap for them to source 5000t of oil from around the NZ fishing industry, not in the near future anyway.

ari

30-11-2013, 04:05 PM

I therefore do not think it will be easy (or even possible) or cheap for them to source 5000t of oil from around the NZ fishing industry, not in the near future anyway.
My point exactly.....and would not this raw material ideally need to come thru Port of Nelson to save on additional transport costs. New plant is 20ks away from port to start.

iceman

30-11-2013, 11:26 PM

My point exactly.....and would not this raw material ideally need to come thru Port of Nelson to save on additional transport costs. New plant is 20ks away from port to start.

If they have to start sourcing outside of Nelson, it will be much more expensive. There is big and growing demand for fish oil today, so they have serious competition.

In Nelson, they have to rely on supplies from Talley´s and Sealords. This makes me uneasy. I will not invest in SeaDragon while they have to rely on those 2 companies to supply them. I have seen up close what has happened to some service providers that have become too reliant on those 2 big fishing industry players. Seadragon needs to diversify supplies to have a viable and investable business as far as I am concerned.
I hope I am wrong and that they have long term favourable and reliable supply contracts.

Rego55

03-12-2013, 12:00 PM

Well I'm trying to pick some up on the cheap today. I think they look like a pretty decent operation.

Harvey Specter

03-12-2013, 12:04 PM

Well I'm trying to pick some up on the cheap today. I think they look like a pretty decent operation.1.9c is pretty cheap. Can then top up $15,000 at 1.7c [edit: 1.6c] under the SPP.

Harvey Specter

03-12-2013, 01:49 PM

Well I'm trying to pick some up on the cheap today. I think they look like a pretty decent operation.Down to 1.8c now. Are you in yet.

Very unlikely it will go below the SPP price but having said that, BLT did and look at it now.

Harvey Specter

03-12-2013, 02:16 PM

1.6 billion shares and counting on issue...They have discussed a share consolidation - SNK has over 250m

biker

03-12-2013, 02:17 PM

I'm virtually out now. Contemplating the SPP but also considering security and quantity of supply of raw material, and the pending consolidation.

Rego55

03-12-2013, 03:16 PM

I had a buy order on for 1.7 but pulled it. I might just wait and see what happens with the SPP and how that affects things. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get in at some stage but it's just a question of timing for me. I'm not a big player and am still trying to learn more about investing.

Bobcat.

03-12-2013, 03:19 PM

I've now just come in. Were those your shares I bought at 1.8c, biker? Please elaborate on your assessment of 'security and quantity of supply' issues.

Two suppliers are better than one, and money talks. This is a growing industry and there's plenty of oil-rich Hoki out in them thar' seas.

I'll complete my research before deciding whether or not to buy more at 1.6c under their SPP. Does anybody know if the rights are tradeable?

BC

biker

03-12-2013, 04:17 PM

ari

04-12-2013, 12:04 PM

If it OK for Tim Preston...https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/186397.pdf

ari

18-12-2013, 01:04 PM

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/187146.pdf
Got a bit of time over Xmas to make my mind up.......but it looks like all or nothing at this early stage.

Harvey Specter

18-12-2013, 01:10 PM

..but it looks like all or nothing at this early stage.Why do you say that. Nice opportunity to top up a little with no brokerage and (currently) a small discount.

ari

18-12-2013, 02:11 PM

Why do you say that. Nice opportunity to top up a little with no brokerage and (currently) a small discount.
I am still sitting on negative value from previous companies before SEA and still attempting to claw my way out, by not taking max. offer it would just be further dilution of price.....or do I just move on and write off loss......as I said, I have some time, I think 24th Jan.

Bobcat.

19-12-2013, 04:56 PM

do I just move on and write off loss......as I said, I have some time, I think 24th Jan.

I bought in last week at 1.8c to get a holding before the SPP's qualifying date (16th Dec), and after reading the SPP T'c and C's have this week sold out 90% of it (at 2c).

Planning to purchase the full $15k late January, stag half and hold the rest, buying and selling more on dips and peaks. That's my strategy - what's yours, Ari?

Their latest financial report arrived in the post earlier this week. Looks OK. Nice product and beginning to turn a profit.

BC

ari

13-01-2014, 03:09 PM

Is anyone from the forum going to any of the meetings?

iceman

13-01-2014, 04:24 PM

Is anyone from the forum going to any of the meetings?

Excuse my ignorance Ari as I haven't been following this lately while overseas, but what meetings are you talking about ?

Bobcat.

13-01-2014, 04:31 PM

Is anyone from the forum going to any of the meetings?

I may get along to the Wellington meeting, but it's mainly a PR job to build confidence in their SPP, and since I've already decided to participate, if something else keeps me from the meeting, I won't be too bothered.

Harvey Specter

13-01-2014, 04:40 PM

Excuse my ignorance Ari as I haven't been following this lately while overseas, but what meetings are you talking about ?They are doing a roadshow for the SPP which is a bit weird, especially since they have already raised from instos. Cant complain about getting more info though.

Harvey Specter

13-01-2014, 04:40 PM

iceman

13-01-2014, 05:24 PM

They are doing a roadshow for the SPP which is a bit weird, especially since they have already raised from instos. Cant complain about getting more info though.

Thanks HS. Just looked up their announcements and saw it. Was keen to go but see they don't have a meeting here in Nelson, their hometown !

brucey09

13-01-2014, 05:27 PM

Thanks HS. Just looked up their announcements and saw it. Was keen to go but see they don't have a meeting here in Nelson, their hometown !

Snr. Iceman
Can you go to factory and asking the managers.
Gracias

iceman

13-01-2014, 05:54 PM

Snr. Iceman
Can you go to factory and asking the managers.
Gracias

No problemas amigo/amiga. Que pregunta ?

whatsup

15-01-2014, 03:46 PM

I went to todays Auckland presentation, a very well run presentation fronted by Ross Keely and overseen by Tim Preston ex ASB. From the info provided I would say that SEA is on the right track but real traction will start once the new facilities are up and running, latest results will be provided March which will give direction and from what can be gleened they will be inline with expectations ( good ).
Once the new facilities are up and running and teething issues are sorted we should have a good future and prospective sales will be built on for a product that is widely accepted especially in Japan that has a appetite for daily supplements.
The end game was as explained for a take out from a big overseas pharma company in 6-8 years at 5-6 xs the todays sp and to that end this will not be a yield company. Instos have supported the recent cap raising very well and so far the SPP has gone well, IMHO all looks good for a successful uptake of the SPP.
All questions were answered very well and fully to the satisfaction of those there some 50 + interested parties including a press reporter so there should be something shortly in the press or radio.

ari

15-01-2014, 04:01 PM

Thanks whatsup...can't ask for more than that. Curious to know who the new landlord will be, is it 'in house'?

Harvey Specter

15-01-2014, 04:03 PM

Thanks - was anythign meantioned about gettins supply of the raw prodcut. There were some on this Forum that questioned whether they could get sufficient for the new plant.

whatsup

15-01-2014, 04:14 PM

Thanks whatsup...can't ask for more than that. Curious to know who the new landlord will be, is it 'in house'?

No the current one that they are with they said that they had a very good relationship, he will fund the new building and they fit it out at some considerable costs.

whatsup

15-01-2014, 04:18 PM

Thanks - was anythign meantioned about gettins supply of the raw prodcut. There were some on this Forum that questioned whether they could get sufficient for the new plant.

No probs with raw product and they have all permits in place with various authorities re purchases.
I think that if any S Hers have ANY issuse call Ross 03 547 0336, he gave the impression that he,s approachable, cheers.

brucey09

16-01-2014, 02:35 PM

Snrs.
Good. Yes?

"ScienceDaily News
... from universities, journals, and other research organizations
Fish Derived Serum Omega-3 Fatty Acids Help Reduce Risk of Type 2 Diabetes

Jan. 14, 2014 — High concentrations of serum long-chain omega-3 fatty acids may help reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes, according to a University of Eastern Finland study published recently in Diabetes Care. The sources of these fatty acids are fish and fish oils."

noodles

16-01-2014, 02:53 PM

brucey09

16-01-2014, 04:23 PM

Snr. Noodle
no es posible!?

whatsup

16-01-2014, 04:58 PM

Maybe not if you are a bloke...
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/omega-3-fatty-acids-linked-to-increase-in-prostate-cancer-risk

Noodles, At the yesterdays Seadragon meeting presentor mentioned this report which has apparently been discredited in the medical circles in the U S as being false and barking up the wrong tree, apparently there is a correct report due to be released shortly, one could phone Ross for a further update if that person was concerned.

whatsup

17-01-2014, 02:44 PM

Last day for selling today and participating in the SPP., a 18.75% return not too bad for a week imho !

brucey09

17-01-2014, 03:46 PM

Last day for selling today and participating in the SPP., a 18.75% return not too bad for a week imho !
Snr. Watsup
I am thinking recorded day Dec 16th. Yes?

whatsup

17-01-2014, 04:43 PM

Snr. Watsup
I am thinking recorded day Dec 16th. Yes?

Yes, but if one wants to sell (today at .019 ) and rebuy under the SPP at .016 , not too shabby for a 18.75% return for a week.

Bobcat.

17-01-2014, 04:55 PM

Yes, but if one wants to sell (today at .019 ) and rebuy under the SPP at .016 , not too shabby for a 18.75% return for a week.

Yes Whatsup, we are of the same mind on this one. I bought in at 1.8c two weeks prior to the 16 Dec cutoff, sold three days later for 2c and plan to purchase a bundle at 1.6c as a longer term investment. I'm sure that I'm not the only one. This company has good prospects...no debt, growing market demand and sales revenue (from FY12's 1.7m to FY13's 9m), only 10% gearing, diversification strategy, etc, etc.

https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3500409

http://www.seadragon.co.nz/assets/SeaDragon%20Annual%20report%202013_web.pdf

It's on my 2014 share pick list.

BC

brucey09

17-01-2014, 05:06 PM

Yes Whatsup, we are of the same mind on this one. I bought in at 1.8c two weeks prior to the 16 Dec cutoff, sold three days later for 2c and plan to purchase a bundle at 1.6c as a longer term investment. I'm sure that I'm not the only one. This company has good prospects...no debt, growing market demand and sales revenue (from FY12's 1.7m to FY13's 9m), only 10% gearing, diversification strategy, etc, etc.

https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3500409

http://www.seadragon.co.nz/assets/SeaDragon%20Annual%20report%202013_web.pdf

It's on my 2014 share pick list.

BC

si,
I am understanding. Does the holding numbers today to make the scaling?

In4a$

17-01-2014, 05:12 PM

I am a supporter, I like the prospects, just waiting for my 500k shares to hit $1 each. Probably in about 2025

Bobcat.

17-01-2014, 05:37 PM

si,
I am understanding. Does the holding numbers today to make the scaling?

I checked the T's and C's before selling out my Dec 16 holding. Whether or not I'm holding now is irrelevant to my application for $15k of shares under the SPP.

whatsup

17-01-2014, 05:37 PM

si,
I am understanding. Does the holding numbers today to make the scaling?

I don't think there will be any scaling as they need the money as long as the spp is in the 15% envelope.

Bobcat.

17-01-2014, 05:39 PM

I don't think there will be any scaling as they need the money as long as the spp is in the 15% envelope.

15% ?? Don't you mean $15,000?

brucey09

17-01-2014, 06:00 PM

I don't think there will be any scaling as they need the money as long as the spp is in the 15% envelope.
Snr.
I am understanding if no scaled.
muchas gracias

ari

22-01-2014, 09:59 AM

Don't forget closing date this Friday....whose in?

Harvey Specter

22-01-2014, 10:16 AM

Don't forget closing date the Friday....whose in?
I'm in. Good growth sector. Good for NZ manufacturing. Discounted price.

Hopefully those who want in, stay in so there is no overhang. VML has done well after its SPP so am hoping for similar here.

Bobcat.

22-01-2014, 12:29 PM

Jasemc

22-01-2014, 12:38 PM

I think the price will fall at least to 1.8 when people look to make a quick profit.

Harvey Specter

22-01-2014, 12:59 PM

I think the price will fall at least to 1.8 when people look to make a quick profit.Unavoidable but hopefully short lived.

Jasemc

22-01-2014, 01:07 PM

Unavoidable but hopefully short lived.
Yes short lived. Long term this company has huge potential. If the dollar ever drops even better.

biker

22-01-2014, 02:12 PM

I think the price will fall at least to 1.8 when people look to make a quick profit.

Then again, this could be one that surprises

biker

22-01-2014, 02:18 PM

I'm in. Watch out though. The fine print states that if paying by Internet transfer, you must print confirmation of the Internet transfer and attach it to the application form....both of which must arrive at Computershare, AKL by 5pm Friday. I posted mine today.

BC

If the funds are processed by IT on Thursday night and they have your application form, there is no way they can refuse your application just because you didn't enclose a print out of payment. The money will be in the account. All they have to do is look. This is just Computershare being lazy and wanting shareholders to do their work for them. Why Companies don't all use Link registry services beats me. They have a much more user friendly and accessable web site and are much more civil to deal with.
I have my doubts about SEA mainly their point of difference and surety of supply of raw material, and also the price after the share consolidation, which never seem to go that well, but will put some funds in, mainly on the back of Tim Preston's reputation because at this stage there isn't much more to go on.

ari

22-01-2014, 03:48 PM

I will drop my cheque & appl. to Computershare in Takapuna. The last time I did this, they were not sure whether they could take it and I had to remind them I had another 30mins till 5pm. Yes, Link do appear to have it over Computershare for service.

ari

24-01-2014, 01:08 PM

All done, went max., have receipt, can now sleep till issue......could then be some sleepless nights!

Jasemc

24-01-2014, 01:19 PM

Bobcat.

24-01-2014, 01:37 PM

Can someone tell me why people think shares fall after a share consolidation?

For the same reason that the converse (i.e. share price rising after a split) is typically true: psychological.

whatsup

24-01-2014, 08:59 PM

Try not to loose to much sleep this company will do fine long term. Can someone tell me why people think shares fall after a share consolidation? As this will surely happen with seadragon this year I presume.

Jas , from info spoken by the CEO at the mkt update the cons will not take place for a few years and not until a couple of good yearly financial releases so as to get the idea from S Hers that the most pressing thing on their minds is a share consolidation, by that time the s p should be around .05 or better.

biker

25-01-2014, 02:21 PM

Jas , from info spoken by the CEO at the mkt update the cons will not take place for a few years and not until a couple of good yearly financial releases so as to get the idea from S Hers that the most pressing thing on their minds is a share consolidation, by that time the s p should be around .05 or better.

Good to hear whatsup. Let's hope they stick to that. They have however been known to contradict what they say shortly after saying it as in an earlier ' we have finished selling Snakk'.
I know it was probably a tactic to get the best price but it wasn't a good look.
I'm in to the full SPP with these for two accounts. No problem without a screen shot.
Good fortune all. Here's to a successful SPP Capital raise and an eventually profitable company if they get it right.
Hopefully these shares will never be available at 1.6 cents again and I must say I was surprised they didn't come back to that after the last placement. If SPP investors don't suddenly decide they want their money out due to the current market volatility, these may do OK post SPP. Not holding my breath but will hold long term for the possible upside multiple.

whatsup

27-01-2014, 10:53 AM

Im pleasantly surprised at the strength of the S P today bearing the sell off overseas and the closing of the SPP, am I missing something ?

Bobcat.

27-01-2014, 12:07 PM

Don't forget that it rose to trade at 4.5c early Novemebr and only fell back to around 1.8c after the SPP at 1.6c was announced. That overhang was removed on 16 Dec (ex date), and it's risen again since.

I'm expecting some profit taking on Friday and through part of next week, then another recovery.

Trading to it...

BC

Harvey Specter

29-01-2014, 10:19 AM

Well they raised alot under the SPP and now have oodles of cash to build the plant and meet working capital requirements. So money is no longer an issue, execution to plan, including getting the required sales is all that is required. A good position to be in as a small company - hopefully they can deliver.

Shareprice has even increased today but maybe that's because traders haven't received their allocation of take the quick profit - hopefully not too many will.

whatsup

29-01-2014, 10:56 AM

ari

30-01-2014, 08:54 AM

New shares are up on Computershare site....I've got 'The Clash' song.... 'Should I stay or should I go now' ringing in my head!

In4a$

30-01-2014, 09:27 AM

I see mine are there, I think I will hold and hope it clmbs back towards 4c, a chance I might double my money over next month or 2.

Balance

30-01-2014, 09:31 AM

New shares are up on Computershare site....I've got 'The Clash' song.... 'Should I stay or should I go now' ringing in my head!

Take the profit while you can.

256m shares are going to be issued at 1.6c under SPP.

See how fast you can get out when the shares are issued.

Take out the 2m on the bid at 1.9c and there's bugger all to sell into.

Another back door job.

Bobcat.

30-01-2014, 10:01 AM

I'm holding a third and have just sold two thirds. Once people get holding statements I expect there will be another selloff - tomorrow and Monday...then it's buy time again.

BC

whatsup

30-01-2014, 11:42 AM

I'm holding a third and have just sold two thirds. Once people get holding statements I expect there will be another selloff - tomorrow and Monday...then it's buy time again.

BC

Bob, tricky decision as have others trying to sell high and buy low. good buying at .02 today after traders sell off, G L to all holders.

Bobcat.

30-01-2014, 12:33 PM

Bob, tricky decision as have others trying to sell high and buy low. good buying at .02 today after traders sell off, G L to all holders.

Yes, I was picking it to drop further but then it plummeted 20% in yesterday afternoon's trading...which looked a bit suspicious given that the new issue was meant to be allocated after market close...and so it was unlikely to drop another 20% today. The sell-off first thing this morning was not very aggressive which is a good sign that people see value in holding their share of the company. Support is building nicely at 1.9c - let's see if that holds once holding statements arrive in letter boxes. Me thinks it could yet drop to trade at 1.8c. Waiting in the wings.

BC

blah

07-02-2014, 11:56 AM

Harvey Specter

07-02-2014, 12:26 PM

new Edison research into Seadragon. Suggests a DCF valuation of 2.7c. Can access here (after free registration and login):

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/company/seadragon

I do think there is considerable upside from 2.7c though.That report was referenced in the NZ Heralds stocktakes column today.

2.7c looks like a good start and hopefully with all the cash in the bank, they can move quickly to get the new premises online and sales ramped up.

ari

10-03-2014, 09:57 AM

Great news as many had questioned ongoing supply...
10/03/2014 09:13
GENERAL

REL: 0913 HRS SeaDragon Limited

GENERAL: SEA: SeaDragon signs significant raw material supply contract

SEA: NZX and Media Release

10 March 2014

SeaDragon signs significant raw material supply contract
Agreement overcomes historical supply constraints

Australasia's largest fish-oil refiner SeaDragon (NZX: SEA) announces a new
raw material supply agreement has been signed that will underpin its
Nelson-based squalene manufacturing operations, and enable the business to
seek new market opportunities in the pharmaceutical and cosmetic sectors.

SeaDragon has entered into an unconditional agreement with Pescarias Cayon &
Garcia LDA for the supply of shark livers and shark liver oil to be landed in
August and October of this year and in January of 2015.

The shipments will deliver quantities more than sufficient to cover the
squalene production SeaDragon has budgeted for in the 2014 calendar year and
beyond. The prices SeaDragon will pay for the shipments are linked to the
squalene content of the material and are internationally competitive.

The agreement, also envisages SeaDragon acquiring further raw material from
Pescarias Cayon & Garcia in the future.

SeaDragon Chief Executive Ross Keeley said: "The agreement locks in raw
material supply for the immediate future, overcoming the shortages that have
historically constrained the growth of our squalene operations and limited
sales activity into new sectors such as cosmetics and pharmaceuticals".

"This agreement will ensure the success of the existing squalene business and
will further strengthen our position as we prepare to expand our Omega-3 fish
oil activities. Our existing shark liver refinery will now be able to be run
at full capacity for at least the next 12 - 18 months."

The high volume of squalene will also enable SeaDragon to launch an
Alkoxyglycerol product onto the market. Alkoxyglyercols are found in the
co-product when squalene is fractionated and removed from shark liver oil.
There is a growing international market for these compounds, with a variety
of proposed health benefits.

iceman

10-03-2014, 10:52 AM

If they have to start sourcing outside of Nelson, it will be much more expensive. There is big and growing demand for fish oil today, so they have serious competition.

In Nelson, they have to rely on supplies from Talley´s and Sealords. This makes me uneasy. I will not invest in SeaDragon while they have to rely on those 2 companies to supply them. I have seen up close what has happened to some service providers that have become too reliant on those 2 big fishing industry players. Seadragon needs to diversify supplies to have a viable and investable business as far as I am concerned.
I hope I am wrong and that they have long term favourable and reliable supply contracts.

Hi ari. Yes in the above quoted post and a previous one, I did dispute that they could source their raw material in Nelson or even NZ. It is good news indeed that they have diversified their supplies. Now it will be interesting to see the landed cost of this raw material and the ongoing security and continuity of supply. If it stacks up, SeaDragon will go on my watchlist and I will do a bit more research on it. I like the business idea but the implementation of it is what will count in the end. I hope it works well.

iceman

19-04-2014, 10:21 AM

Think the key here is landed cost - there is no IP in the process so struggle to get my head around how importing a commodity out of the Northern Hemisphere to process in Nelson for re export is viable? Would seem highly improbable they can be competitive but might be missing something?

One thing I can't make any sense of is how they are showing on NZX as having a PE of 5.94 and a EPS of .003? Hard to make that work on a $2.47m half year loss and 1.8 billion issued shares?

Welcome to the forum. I am a bit like you. I am struggling to see SeaDragon as an investment as I just can't see that they have any advantage over any company that wants to do the same in many much lower cost countries. We don't even have the raw material in NZ.

Balance

19-04-2014, 10:24 AM

Welcome to the forum. I am a bit like you. I am struggling to see SeaDragon as an investment as I just can't see that they have any advantage over any company that wants to do the same in many much lower cost countries. We don't even have the raw material in NZ.

Using NZ clean and green and pure image to get premium pricing.

Wish them luck but personally will not touch any company which uses the backdoor to list on the market. They always have something to hide.

iceman

19-04-2014, 10:26 AM

Using NZ clean and green and pure image to get premium pricing.

Ummmh. Beautiful but not for me !

Dentie

19-04-2014, 01:21 PM

Wish them luck but personally will not touch any company which uses the backdoor to list on the market. They always have something to hide.

I note Warren Buffett took Berkshire Hathaway public by way of a backdoor listing...current share price = approx USD $187k per share. I'd love to know what he was hiding!!

Balance

19-04-2014, 01:36 PM

I note Warren Buffett took Berkshire Hathaway public by way of a backdoor listing...current share price = approx USD $187k per share. I'd love to know what he was hiding!!

Comparing shxt with clay, are we?

Big gigantic difference between Warren Buffett taking control of a public listed operating company, and over time building it up to become his investment vehicle - versus the likes of SeaDragon, TRS, Snakk etc.

*********

In 1962, Warren Buffett began buying stock in Berkshire Hathaway after noticing a pattern in the price direction of its stock whenever the company closed a mill. Eventually, Buffett acknowledged that the textile business was waning and the company's financial situation was not going to improve. In 1964, Stanton made an oral tender offer of $111⁄2 per share for the company to buy back Buffett's shares. Buffett agreed to the deal. A few weeks later, Warren Buffett received the tender offer in writing, but the tender offer was for only $113⁄8. Buffett later admitted that this lower, undercutting offer made him angry.[7] Instead of selling at the slightly lower price, Buffett decided to buy more of the stock to take control of the company and fire Stanton (which he did). However, this put Buffett in a situation where he was now majority owner of a textile business that was failing.

Buffett initially maintained Berkshire's core business of textiles, but by 1967, he was expanding into the insurance industry and other investments. Berkshire first ventured into the insurance business with the purchase of National Indemnity Company. In the late 1970s, Berkshire acquired an equity stake in the Government Employees Insurance Company (GEICO), which forms the core of its insurance operations today (and is a major source of capital for Berkshire Hathaway's other investments). In 1985, the last textile operations (Hathaway's historic core) were shut down.

In 2010, Buffett claimed that purchasing Berkshire Hathaway was the biggest investment mistake he had ever made, and claimed that it had denied him compounded investment returns of about $200 billion over the subsequent 45 years.[7] Buffett claimed that had he invested that money directly in insurance businesses instead of buying out Berkshire Hathaway (due to what he perceived as a slight by an individual), those investments would have paid off several hundredfold.

Dentie

19-04-2014, 04:05 PM

Comparing shxt with clay, are we?

Big gigantic difference between Warren Buffett taking control of a public listed operating company, and over time building it up to become his investment vehicle - versus the likes of SeaDragon, TRS, Snakk etc.

*********

In 1962, Warren Buffett began buying stock in Berkshire Hathaway after noticing a pattern in the price direction of its stock whenever the company closed a mill. Eventually, Buffett acknowledged that the textile business was waning and the company's financial situation was not going to improve. In 1964, Stanton made an oral tender offer of $111⁄2 per share for the company to buy back Buffett's shares. Buffett agreed to the deal. A few weeks later, Warren Buffett received the tender offer in writing, but the tender offer was for only $113⁄8. Buffett later admitted that this lower, undercutting offer made him angry.[7] Instead of selling at the slightly lower price, Buffett decided to buy more of the stock to take control of the company and fire Stanton (which he did). However, this put Buffett in a situation where he was now majority owner of a textile business that was failing.

Buffett initially maintained Berkshire's core business of textiles, but by 1967, he was expanding into the insurance industry and other investments. Berkshire first ventured into the insurance business with the purchase of National Indemnity Company. In the late 1970s, Berkshire acquired an equity stake in the Government Employees Insurance Company (GEICO), which forms the core of its insurance operations today (and is a major source of capital for Berkshire Hathaway's other investments). In 1985, the last textile operations (Hathaway's historic core) were shut down.

In 2010, Buffett claimed that purchasing Berkshire Hathaway was the biggest investment mistake he had ever made, and claimed that it had denied him compounded investment returns of about $200 billion over the subsequent 45 years.[7] Buffett claimed that had he invested that money directly in insurance businesses instead of buying out Berkshire Hathaway (due to what he perceived as a slight by an individual), those investments would have paid off several hundredfold.

Nope ... but thanks for the history lesson Balance (btw...which biography book of Buffet's did you quote from?).

I was merely making an observation on your very generalised statement... "Wish them luck but personally will not touch any company which uses the backdoor to list on the market. They always have something to hide".

There are other reasons why a business favours a back door listing - like the immense saving in time and money and all the rest of the bullsh#t a firm needs to endure to get a public listing through the front door. No doubt you have researched SEA to the nth degree ... what do you think they have to hide?

I have read all their literature, gone to their meetings and chatted with Keeley, Preston & Co ... listened to them being questioned by very seasoned investors and they have been very transparent with their answers and never ducked any questions etc. One thing is for sure, they know their business well and they are very excited at what lays ahead for them. At their latest presentation, the biggest shareholder concern was the amount of shares on offer and whether (when?) they would be doing a reverse split.

So, with Buffett becoming successful by a succession of acquistions....maybe Keeley, Preston & Co are looking to do the same ... maybe Sealord (to stay core) - or maybe even looking to get out of core business and getting into something else .....retirement villages for example????

In my humblest of opinions, I think they will stay with their knitting and I am glad they saved heaps of $$$$ by listing through the back door (Preston's knowledge used here no doubt). They have been in the game a long time and they have a lot going for them.

Balance, I don't think you can compare SEA's business with SNK's - they both listed through the back door...but that's where the comparison ends I think.

Balance

19-04-2014, 06:57 PM

Balance, I don't think you can compare SEA's business with SNK's - they both listed through the back door...but that's where the comparison ends I think.

Same parentage.

Bad genes.

Look at the history of the failed backdoor listings using the shell which is now SeaDragon - one after another with a few making serious money and investors losing just about all.

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?1257-CER-Certified-organics/page26&highlight=cer

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8176-CLA-Claridge-Capital-Limited/page2&highlight=cer

If you are a respectable good company which can stand scrutiny, why backdoor list using such a miserable excuse of a vehicle?

As for your comment : "all the rest of the bullsh#t a firm needs to endure to get a public listing through the front door" - that bullsh#t is the financial projections, business strategy, management profiles, risk profiling etc which all go into making a case for investors to trust their funds with the company seeking IPO. Precisely the sort of bullsh#t a backdoor listing company shy away from - guess why?

Dentie

20-04-2014, 05:44 PM

Same parentage.

Bad genes.

Look at the history of the failed backdoor listings using the shell which is now SeaDragon - one after another with a few making serious money and investors losing just about all.

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?1257-CER-Certified-organics/page26&highlight=cer

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8176-CLA-Claridge-Capital-Limited/page2&highlight=cer

If you are a respectable good company which can stand scrutiny, why backdoor list using such a miserable excuse of a vehicle?

As for your comment : "all the rest of the bullsh#t a firm needs to endure to get a public listing through the front door" - that bullsh#t is the financial projections, business strategy, management profiles, risk profiling etc which all go into making a case for investors to trust their funds with the company seeking IPO. Precisely the sort of bullsh#t a backdoor listing company shy away from - guess why?

I didn't mean that sort of Bullsh@t Balance ... I meant all the red tape that essentially just puts $$$$ into investment banks' pockets (& associated hangers on of course) - all at the shareholder's cost.

As for what you see as bullsh#t ... the financial projections, strategy & management profiles etc... you can find all that here... http://www.seadragon.co.nz/investors.html

And, unlike some front listed companies, SEA even have an analyst research company that has taken the time to give their views... http://www.seadragon.co.nz/assets/SeadragonEdisonReport-2013.pdf

Drop the myopia around back door listed companies.... they are not all suspicious and some even invite & welcome the scrutiny.

Bobcat.

20-04-2014, 07:49 PM

SEA has demonstrated an increasing amount of support at 1.8c these past few days (even when the NASDAQ was falling). Someone's buying.

Discl: holding...and happy to do so. I like their product and am quite satisfied with what I've seen of their management strategy.

iceman

21-04-2014, 08:50 AM

And, unlike some front listed companies, SEA even have an analyst research company that has taken the time to give their views... http://www.seadragon.co.nz/assets/SeadragonEdisonReport-2013.pdf

Dentie correct me if I am wrong, but I thought SeaDragon actually commissioned this report and paid
for it ? Thought I read it somewhere but not sure now.
I sincerely hope this company does well and I will continue to watch it.

Discl: Not holding

Dentie

21-04-2014, 09:48 AM

Dentie correct me if I am wrong, but I thought SeaDragon actually commissioned this report and paid
for it ? Thought I read it somewhere but not sure now.

I'm unsure Iceman, quite possibly though.

So long as any research and analysis is objective and factually accurate and so long as the research company has credibility then it should stand up to investor scrutiny.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 10:05 AM

Sorry but not entirely sure the links help your argument; information coming out is rubbish and very selective.

In 2013 they take a profit on the rise in Snakk share value - $3.65 million. Current FY Market was notified of sale of shares but no mention they were below valuation, which surely price sensitive disclosure?

Interim report comes out and they take a balance sheet impairment and write off $2.7 million on Snakk. Could probably live with that but what I think is very average is how they then claimed a profit on the sales at the written down value. You can argue swings and roundabouts but the problem is they put the loss to balance sheet and took the profit as an operating profit – part of ‘continuing activities’.

Fact is trading result for first 6 months is a $600k loss on $2m sales. Will need a very big second half to get close to Edisons $1.9 EBITDA on $10m!

Edison are more like wardrobe stylists - putting pretty dresses on pigs...

No criticisms of anyone - its the bizz.. Well maybe a criticism of NZX for showing incorrect P/E and EPS numbers,

My point was simply about Balance's obsession around companies that dare to list through the back door ... and the different reasons why they do it ... not the financial results or forecasts. Balance seems to have this view that any company who lists through the back door are nothing more than sh#t. Whilst posters are entitled to their opinion, I get a little tired of seeing them saturate a thread with their own relentless "hatred" (so to speak) of a particular stock or a particular Director or CEO etc ...taking it upon themselves to be the sharetrader policemen or whatever. The simple answer is .... if you don't like stock - FOR WHATEVER REASON - don't buy it!

Balance

21-04-2014, 10:17 AM

My point was simply about Balance's obsession around companies that dare to list through the back door ... and the different reasons why they do it ... not the financial results or forecasts. Balance seems to have this view that any company who lists through the back door are nothing more than sh#t. Whilst posters are entitled to their opinion, I get a little tired of seeing them saturate a thread with their own relentless "hatred" (so to speak) of a particular stock or a particular Director or CEO etc ...taking it upon themselves to be the sharetrader policemen or whatever. The simple answer is .... if you don't like stock - FOR WHATEVER REASON - don't buy it!

Are you trying to insinuate that only those who support a stock are allowed to comment on the stock/company?

It will be a cold day in hell when that happens, my dear Dentie because that's exactly the attitude which allowed the scam artists like Plus SMS, Blue Chip Financial Services, Bridgecorp, Nathans Finance, Lombard Finance etc to flourish for a time. There are investors who committed suicide as a consequence of these crooks - because too many were cowed by their legal threats etc.

Trutivity makes an absolutely valid point - window dressing financial results falls into the realm of deceiving behavior imo - why would a self-respecting company operating above board want to do something like that?

I guess the fact that they did a backdoor list tells you a lot, if you care to look more closely.

Good catch, Trutivity.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 10:25 AM

Read disclaimer - is paid for and "should not be relied on in making an investment decision" and yet that is exactly why SEA would have commissioned it and exactly why they use it for promotional purposes............ maybe they are also make up artists - putting lipstick on pigs?

Here is an example of what is in my previous post...

Are you saying "unpaid for" research done by the likes of Morningstar, Forsyth Barr & others should be relied upon for making an investment decision?

Whether it's paid for or not by the "Client Company", how long do you think Edison (& other research companies) would stay in business if their research was inaccurate or subjective?

SEA shares are currently below 2c. The trading results for the first 6 months (Sep 13) actually seems to show a $219k net profit on $2m sales. I could be wrong though.

As an investor, I'm happier with this result - than with the like of XRO's result - who's current share price has dropped like a stone (and rightly so!) from a ridiculous $45 on a trading result of $17m loss on $30m sales for the same period.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 10:44 AM

Are you trying to insinuate that only those who support a stock are allowed to comment on the stock/company?

It will be a cold day in hell when that happens, my dear Dentie because that's exactly the attitude which allowed the scam artists like Plus SMS, Blue Chip Financial Services, Bridgecorp, Nathans Finance, Lombard Finance etc to flourish for a time. There are investors who committed suicide as a consequence of these crooks - because too many were cowed by their legal threats etc.

Trutivity makes an absolutely valid point - window dressing financial results falls into the realm of deceiving behavior imo - why would a self-respecting company operating above board want to do something like that?

I guess the fact that they did a backdoor list tells you a lot, if you care to look more closely.

Good catch, Trutivity.

Still missing the point Balance .... so I'll write it slowly ... you decimated the SNK thread because you went on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ...(get the picture) ...and on and on and on repetitively until most people left because they obviously got sick of reading your same obsessive stuff about how they (SNK) dared to list through the back door. I got your point after the second or third post you made on the same subject.

Feel free to post until your heart's content - just please try and refrain from attacking these companies with the same repetitive and echoing diatribe. We get it....you don't like firms who list in this way. Or better still, instead of using the threads to vent your spleen, why not contact the Company's concerned and the NZX itself and demand this nasty type of listing stops? Most people who dare to get involved in commerce get burned at some point in their lives...that is the way of our world today. The clever ones learn from that ....

whatsup

21-04-2014, 11:07 AM

Dentie I think you have missed the point on the SNK thread. Most people have left the thread, not because of Balance, but because they got sick of increasingly being in the red. Read the thread carefully, look at all those who were invested in SNK to begin with, then continue to read their posts as one by one people sold out (I am one of them, and if you want I could name many others). That is why the SNK thread is barely in action anymore. I just think it is important for people to get their facts right, and is only reason why I am posting here (no current of future interest in SEA)

turmeric/balance, TI think that You both and heaps of others failed Finance 1.01, " Let the buyer beware ! "

Balance

21-04-2014, 12:47 PM

turmeric/balance, TI think that You both and heaps of others failed Finance 1.01, " Let the buyer beware ! "

I do my bit to add 'balance' to the rah rah of those who would hoodwink others into parting with their money and make the buyer(s) aware.

You have a problem with that?

Dentie

21-04-2014, 12:59 PM

Dentie I think you have missed the point on the SNK thread. Most people have left the thread, not because of Balance, but because they got sick of increasingly being in the red. Read the thread carefully, look at all those who were invested in SNK to begin with, then continue to read their posts as one by one people sold out (I am one of them, and if you want I could name many others). That is why the SNK thread is barely in action anymore. I just think it is important for people to get their facts right, and is only reason why I am posting here (no current of future interest in SEA)

Yeah T...agree. Seems like only the Moose and Balance left exchanging views on the SNK thread.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 01:13 PM

Someone's buying. Spare me. Are you trying to insinuate demand for this stock or just trying to shore up your own post-purchase dissonance?

There are 1.8b shares on issue and it trades a few thousand dollars a day - clearly no one is buying. Stocks don't change hands here - they are simply issued to insiders for no particular reason - in denominations not of thousand or tens of thousands - or even millions - but hundreds of millions.

Thus making an already dysfunctional capital structure more so, making capital raising almost impossible and rendering all the usual ratios used to judge a stock meaningless. Minimal sales, no raw materials (apparently) - where was the price sensitive announcement outlining that little nugget?, no meaningful financial data released, no budget, no performance against budget ... and so on ...

So I can get a better handle on this can you enlighten me as to their product (ie what is it, what is the market and what is the point of difference?) and what is the 'management strategy' and how is it reflected in execution?

I'm not trying to insinuate anything and I'm not trying to shore up anything either...but yes, I am a holder of SEA. I am not a trader either...long term only for me.

As I mentioned back along...the main shareholder contention is around the number of shares on issue and at the last meeting I brought it up with Tim Preston. He acknowledged this but said they are not too worried about this at the moment - although they may probably look at a reverse split a little bit later on.

In respect to capital raising, they have not long completed a round of this and were well oversubscribed. They have ample funds to do what they want at this stage. Their new purpose built factory is on target and demand for their product outstrips supply.

Why be enlightened by others? Why not enlighten yourself and take the time to do your own research - or "DYOR" ... as so many say on sharetrader?.

I see SEA as a growth stock - just as I saw PEB was when I invested 6 or 7 years ago. Difference is, I don't think I am going to have to wait 7 years to start getting a yield off SEA.

Balance

21-04-2014, 01:18 PM

SEA shares are currently below 2c.

The trading results for the first 6 months (Sep 13) actually seems to show a $219k net profit on $2m sales. I could be wrong though.

As an investor, I'm happier with this result - than with the like of XRO's result - who's current share price has dropped like a stone (and rightly so!) from a ridiculous $45 on a trading result of $17m loss on $30m sales for the same period.

It's irrelevant the level the shares are trading at - what is it trading at relative to its fundamental value? TRS was trading at under 2c too but those who bought at 1.9c are probably wondering how they were sucked in?

Meanwhile, I question your interpretation and ability to interpret or analyze Sea accounts if you think the trading results actually show a $219k profit.

Fact is that Sea made an operating loss of $582,000 - hardly the sharp turnaround from $211,000 loss from the pcp!

Did you actually analyze the results or did you simply take the company's announcement at face value?

Meanwhile, XRO has gone from $12.35 a year ago to $29.00 - 135% gain, while Sea has gone backwards.

Your sense of happiness may need adjusting? :D

Balance

21-04-2014, 01:21 PM

Why be enlightened by others? Why not enlighten yourself and take the time to do your own research - or "DYOR" ... as so many say on sharetrader?.

Reading a $219k profit when it's actually a loss of $582k speaks volumes about your 'DYOR'!

The backdoor job may have clouded your sense of perspective of what is normal? :D

EAGLE

21-04-2014, 02:13 PM

gross profit margin's improving;
high G&A expense due to listing? (what they said)

can't work out how they get 250 mil earn out shares in FY 2013.

we will see how FY results looks like soon.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 02:50 PM

Balance, Trutivity etc ...

DYOR by its very nature suggests everyone is researching points and events important to themselves. That is where any share's liquidity comes from. If we all believed in what a few say - the markets would no longer be efficient.

On the information available, I am happy with my own research in SEA.... including the trading results. I am not getting into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument, but thanks for the invitation anyway. I'm a long term investor so I'll wait for this pudding to be cooked first and, good luck to you in the meantime....whilst you look for somewhere else to put your dosh.

As for XRO - they have lost 35% in about the last month. If I just looked at the last 12 month gain - looking to get in now - without taking the last month's trading into account - well, what a gamble that would be. With the growing loss they have made, their cash being provided by Thiel and Co (ie NOT the broader market) and the recent problem....http://www.theage.com.au/small-business/finance/my-20000-mistake-20140417-36u7a.html it would be an even bigger gamble. I would suggest the price is dropping because the market is waking up and valuing it at today's trading performance - not what it will be doing after it conquers the US market.....which from what I am reading may be a harder quest to achieve than first thought.

Sorry - not trying to hijack thread.

blackcap

21-04-2014, 03:23 PM

Balance, Trutivity etc ...

As for XRO - they have lost 35% in about the last month. If I just looked at the last 12 month gain - looking to get in now - without taking the last month's trading into account - well, what a gamble that would be.

Sorry - not trying to hijack thread.

Just looking at the 5 year chart of SEA, I see they are at 5 year lows. Looking at the chart of XRO for the last 5 years I seem to get vertigo.....

Balance

21-04-2014, 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=Dentie;476143] If we all believed in what a few say - the markets would no longer be efficient. /QUOTE]

Exactly! So far we have seen many believe what a few say - the company's spin and PR, and contradictory statements one PR release to the other.

Balance

21-04-2014, 03:47 PM

Demand for product doesn't outstrip supply in the market- that's simply parroting the company line and reflective of the company's own shortcomings. It appears they haven't had the wherewithal to purchase raw materials - hence the admittance that the recent capital raising will be directed to 'operating costs'. The reduction in 'order book' from one press release to another - by 50% - is suggestive of customers going elsewhere.

DYOR leaves one coming up empty and feeling empty.

The company's strategy seems to be one big WIP - as evidenced by this priceless piece in their last investor update :

Thinking ahead:
SeaDragon’s board
meets over strategy
in Auckland
“What’s next?” That was the question
occupying the SeaDragon Board
as it met in Auckland last month to
contemplate the future of the business
following the completion of the new
refined fish oil plant.
The board considered plans to secure
raw materials, new staff, the timing of
contracts for production from the new
plant as well as the potential of longer
term initiatives such as the development
of a brand for consumer products.

What next? Maybe try the front door for a change? :D

Balance

21-04-2014, 04:02 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

"Your time is limited, so don't waste it by living somebody else's life".

Same as working damn hard and giving your money to those who are already filthy rich but knows how to extract the money from you.

Be careful.

Dentie

21-04-2014, 04:49 PM

Thanks for the tip re DYOR. I'd love to, but meaningful information is hard to come by, and I don't consider the unquestioning acceptance (and then parroting) of company press releases as 'research'. As an example the latest Investor 'Update', amongst all the gloss and dross, contained only one critical and well-hidden line 'we have not achieved the sales we planned ...'. No numbers, no further comment. We await the soon to be released year ends with interest,

If they acknowledge shareholder concerns about the number of shares on issue, rather than address the situation why to they issue hundreds of millions more (to themselves)?

Purpose built factory on target? By own admission it is two year's late and they have used it as an excuse in past releases for missing targets, although how that works I don't know. They can't have their cake and eat it.

Regarding the latest round of capital raising, hardly something to write home about. Returning to the point that the existing structure makes the raising of further funds fraught, to raise a paltry $2.5m (yes they got $4m) they halved the capital value of the company, taking it from $70m to $35m. Immediate major book loss and dilution for shareholders.

Demand for product doesn't outstrip supply in the market- that's simply parroting the company line and reflective of the company's own shortcomings. It appears they haven't had the wherewithal to purchase raw materials - hence the admittance that the recent capital raising will be directed to 'operating costs'. The reduction in 'order book' from one press release to another - by 50% - is suggestive of customers going elsewhere.

DYOR leaves one coming up empty and feeling empty.

Does this mean you won't be buying any SEA shares then?

Dentie

21-04-2014, 04:52 PM

Yup, I struggle to see how bringing XRO into this strengthens the case for SEA. Dentie trumpets the recent SP decline of XRO, but "forgets" to remind everyone that XRO was up well over 4000% previous to the recent correction (Am I missing something? is SEA up 4000% as well??). It is a ridiculas, self defeating argument that Dentie seems to be trying to go with with here, so for anyone trying to get any quality info from this thread I would suggest the whole XRO comparison should be disregarded.

So, if I had purchased XRO at $45 and am waiting for that rebound ... I am currently sitting on a $16 loss per share. Do you think I should cut my losses now....or buy up more hoping to offset that loss?

Dentie

21-04-2014, 04:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

"Your time is limited, so don't waste it by living somebody else's life".

Be careful.

Exactly Balance ... so why do you bother with your tirades ...instead of Caveat emptor?

Dentie

21-04-2014, 05:44 PM

Given the passion of you lot against SEA & SNK and anyone else that doesn't fit with your criteria and superior knowledge etc etc etc .... why are you jockeying on the sharetrader forum to see who's got the biggest one? I think you owe it to the investing community to register your concerns with the FMA. They are there to sort out the likes of SEA and SNK as they appear to administer the securities types of Acts.

Balance

21-04-2014, 06:26 PM

Priceless isn't the word - a cash-strapped industrial manufacturer two year's late on a factory build and with raw material access issues is now going to leap the fence into the retail space.

Brilliant. This passed for strategy in a previous post!

Our mate, Dentie, is getting rather strident and shrill now with your 'cross examination' bobbells.

Maybe time to back off before he does an Oscar Pistorius on you!

Bobcat.

21-04-2014, 07:35 PM

Maybe time to back off before he does an Oscar Pistorius on you!

That's a cheap shot...calling him legless...or is it that you're suggesting he'll break down and cry - either way Bal, it's a bit insulting.

Balance

21-04-2014, 10:19 PM

That's a cheap shot...calling him legless...or is it that you're suggesting he'll break down and cry - either way Bal, it's a bit insulting.

Appropriate reply to this from Dentie : "why are you jockeying on the sharetrader forum to see who's got the biggest one?"

If putting forward views and counter-views is simply that to Dentie, what does it say to you, Bobcat?

Snow Leopard

22-04-2014, 07:41 PM

I see that the thread went down-hill over the long weekend :D.

This is in the too illiquid basket for me to be owning any but I did choose it for the contest last year so have a soft spot for it :).

Anyway a couple of matters arising for you lot who would rather make sweeping guesses and then complain about the company rather than do a little basic research.

The 250m earn out shares have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the revaluation of the Snakk holding but are related only to the performance of the bought oil refining business (Annual General Meeting Presentation).

There are potentially another (and final) 250m earn out shares to be issued this year if the performance threshold is again met.

The accounting treatment of the Snakk sales / holding re-evaluation is, I believe, the correct way to approach this and not an attempt to hide anything. It is consistent between reports. Looks weird I know.
[Accountants do like things to be too straight-forward otherwise we would realise that any idiot with a spreadsheet could do their job :p].

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Snow Leopard

23-04-2014, 01:07 AM

Fair call on the earn out - had actually deleted the post as looking at it closer I couldn't be sure. Having read it still not sure I understand.... maybe I am just slow but struggle to see how the earn out could be triggered if they burnt $1.5 million cash more than prospectus and the trading loss was more than $600 k worse? Good deal for someone - possibly not shareholders!?

Read 2013 Annual Report page 16 and 2013 Annual Meeting Presentation slide 38

Credibility not helped by the massive drop in turnover in the 6 months following - certainly don't expect $9m full year to be dropping to a $2m half year???

Yes, seems to be have been very uneven in their ability to get stuff to process. Maybe the future looks better with the recent supply announcements.
The iceman seems pretty clued up on this sort of thing.

Clearly anything in an audited set of accounts is going to be (one hopes) an accepted accounting practice. That does not mean there aren't alternate methods for reporting/classification. Instead of (this year) taking the loss on sales as 'continuing operational loss' they took the loss to balance sheet and now claim the profit as 'continuing operational profit'

End of the day it all evens out in dollar terms - difference is they get to hide ongoing under performance of the core business through some account juggling.

It might be acceptable accounting practice but seriously - when CEO claims in the latest shareholder update the result has been improved by $920k Snakk sale you can't help but cringe. The correct description should be we clawed back $920k of the $2.7m we wrote off at the start of the year.

OK - for every company there is the consolidated statement of comprehensive income which can be divided into two parts, the profit and loss bit up top and then the other comprehensive income beneath.
SEA is rather unusual (but not after this FY) in that the bottom has dwarfed the top in size and comprises of the movement in the current value of their investment in that other much maligned company SNK.
SEA correctly reported that the value of their SNK holding went up $3M65 at last full year.
SEA correctly reported that the value of their SNK holding went down by $2M69 at this half year.
Both appeared as other comprehensive income.

SEA also reported a profit of $810K on the SNK shares they sold (they bought them for a tenth of the price they sold them for).

Best you get your head round all this sort of stuff, go learn.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

EAGLE

23-04-2014, 09:31 AM

in 2013 FY report, SDMO business only, I can't work out >$1mil of NPBTDA, for them to get earn out shares.
I just emailed their acting CFO, hope he will tell me how, I should ask him before.

Snow Leopard

23-04-2014, 11:31 AM

in 2013 FY report, SDMO business only, I can't work out >$1mil of NPBTDA, for them to get earn out shares.
I just emailed their acting CFO, hope he will tell me how, I should ask him before.

2013 Annual Meeting Presentation slide 38 details this information.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Snow Leopard

23-04-2014, 11:39 AM

Ok I was trying to be subtle and polite but you have exposed my weakness; inability to suffer fools....

I can see that you are not interested in trying to actually understand.

Best Wishes & Take Care
Paper Tiger

iceman

24-04-2014, 09:03 AM

[QUOTE=bobbells;476705]

You seem to be confusing sales decline/failure with processing issues. Often the two are unrelated. In any case, how can they not get stuff to process? Everywhere you turn in their releases they tell you they are about to cut a swathe through the US$30b omega-3 market. Yes, that's right, there's US$30b equivalent of raw materials out there. Everyone else is jamming their plant full of the stuff ... Mr magoo could find it. "

Bobbells where do you get that figure from ? My experience is that Omega 3 fish oil demand is very high and supply is not likely to go much higher than it currently is, due to most fish oil producing fisheries being fully utilised. This is keeping prices high for raw material for the likes of SeaDragon.
According to some industry information, the worldwide market for human use Omega 3 fish oil PRODUCTS is estimated to reach around 25.5 B Euro in 2016, up from 18.9 B Euro in 2011. Very different from your claim highlighted above !

youngatheart

24-04-2014, 09:11 AM

I suspect he may have asked this lady to find it...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8QGAJjGQbM

jonu

29-04-2014, 01:57 PM

Confucious say "very unwise to grab a tiger by the tail"

iceman

29-04-2014, 02:36 PM

You've unwittingly hit on the fatal flaw in the business model - a commodity sector where, paradoxically (if you are correct) raw materials are tight (unattainable in some cases apparently) and prices are high.

Go make that work.

Nothing unwitting about it. I have been saying consistently since I started following this thread that I think supply is the biggest risk to SeaDragon and I remain of that view. The industry is actually talking about "fish oil supply crisis" http://www.nutraingredients.com/Industry/Fish-oil-supply-crisis-forces-omega-3-price-hike-at-DSM

Balance

29-04-2014, 02:42 PM

Nothing unwitting about it. I have been saying consistently since I started following this thread that I think supply is the biggest risk to SeaDragon and I remain of that view. The industry is actually talking about "fish oil supply crisis" http://www.nutraingredients.com/Industry/Fish-oil-supply-crisis-forces-omega-3-price-hike-at-DSM

Starting to sound like the cheese business.

Plenty of players in there so manufacturers get squeezed by high demand for raw materials (milk) and inability to pass on price increases!

blah

29-04-2014, 04:14 PM

There are huge volumes of material available out there. Definitely limited potential for growth but the argument that they are raw material constrained is ludicrous - what it simply means is they can not pay the market price for the material. Raw material will go to those that can either command a higher price for finished product due to IP and/or those who can convert at a lower cost. Evidence suggests that SEA does neither.

Its like me saying I turned down $5 million in infant formula as I couldn't get supply. Never actually looked but if I could of got some cheap enough am sure I would have sold plenty!

Until there is evidence they can do either then it seems a little reckless building plants on a whim...

True and untrue at the same time. Yes there is plenty of fish waste, as there are many fish filleted onboard vessels and the other stuff is wasted (as in not used for anything else). At recent shareholder meetings, Keeley acknowledged at only fairly recently are the fishing companies/vessels , ie Talleys, Sealord, becoming aware there is value in the fish organs. So now they have gotten a more secure supply of fish livers (primarily Hoki) etc as commercial fisherpeople in NZ have realised value in otherwise garbage.

Also you blabber on about IP... I understand value add... but what does ?intellectual property? have anything to do here?

blah

29-04-2014, 07:32 PM

Seriously??? They need to start IQ testing members when registering.. the first giveaway to intellect was the fact you had the time to attend a shareholder meeting... got the afternoon off from working drive thru at Macca's did you?

Anyone can add value ... if I peel a potato - it adds value... I am now selling a peeled potato! Adding value or differentiating without an element of Intellectual Property is useless. Doesn't have to be a patent - could be technology or process IP but if there is nothing you can offer then you better be the cheapest....

And gullible - wow..... you seriously believe that these fishing companies are oblivious to the "hidden gold" the are dumping over the side!? Lets bow down and praise Keeley as opening the eyes of the ignorant (albeit profitable) companies --- run by management unable to use the internet to discover the same!?

I am listing a company - Unicorn livestock next month - will send you a prospectus.

Thanks for offending the population of people who actually bother to attend shareholder meetings - as if it is somewhat unusual to do so... Also I wouldn't bother responding about my IQ, cause I'm confident enough about it and don't feel the need to prove it. Same goes to whether I actually work at Macca's or not.

I ask that question because clearly from your explanation, intellectual property wasn't really what you were referring to. You are referring to product differentiation, which IP might or might not contribute to - but are different concepts altogether.

Symantics aside, does Seadragon command any sort of product differentiation? Well depends on whether you want to believe it or not.
1. Balance noted above somewhere that there's a NZ clean green factor. Is this significant? Who knows. There might be an impression that NZ waters are not as polluted as waters elsewhere, leading to a lower concentration of heavy metals... I won't linger here, because I personally don't think it's that significant - but then again what is the reason why China likes NZ milk powder?
2. Sustainable fisheries. With a big environmental-sustainability push in people's mindset these days: perhaps this matters. The Hoki and Tuna catches that is used by Seadragon is certified by the Marine Stewardship Council as sustainable catches - it is said that no country has achieved such certification for 3 years in a row for which NZ has.
3. The majority of omega 3 that is produced by Seadragon is from hoki. Most of the omega 3 oils elsewhere are made from anchovies (from memory), which inherently is darker in colour - hoki oil is much lighter which is desired. Another point of differentiation.

I'm not sure I've convinced you of differentiation. But one only needs to go to the supermarket isles to see that a similarly sized bottle of Coca Cola sells for more than a bottle of Pepsi cola - they are inherently the same product, but differences are perceived rather than real.

In any case, differentiation of the oil is only one aspect of analyses. At the moment, Seadragon does not sell its oil to final consumers (other than to staff and shareholders) - but will in the future under its own brand. The value add (excl costs of going about adding value) seem quite attractive as you move down the chain. I will not put it on record here because I do not have perfect recall, and I don't think is mentioned anywhere to prove definitively. Again you might think I'm making this up - so be it.

The other thing is that the fish oils don't all go into pills or fortified food. There is also a substantial market in the form of cosmetics.

And regarding gullibility... well unless there is real reason to doubt it, there's no reason not to believe it. It doesn't seem all that implausible to me that commercial fishermen discard their waste. Although valuable to Seadragon, this waste is worth little to the fishing companies and hardly 'hidden gold'. I don't believe the raw material costs Seadragon all that much to buy given the value it generates - though I cannot substantiate this. When you finish eating a banana, you're going to chuck the banana skin away - despite the fact that you could potentially 'sell' it to someone who uses it to make fertiliser... not an overly implausible scenario. Anyway, the situation regarding raw materials is getting better as these fishermen are aware there's value in it.

OR maybe I'm just overly gullible and naive.

iceman

30-04-2014, 09:27 AM

There appear to be a couple of new members to Sharetrader posting on this thread in rather a personally abusive manner. Please stick to the issues and refrain from personal abuse. Most of us are interested in divergent views and welcome them.

percy

30-04-2014, 10:31 AM

goldfish

28-05-2014, 11:29 AM

https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/250958

Good news!!

ari

30-05-2014, 03:49 PM

Bobcat.

30-05-2014, 05:29 PM

Yes, I got out - after participating in the SPP and taking profit at 1.9c. No longer interested in buying into this dream.

blah

30-05-2014, 07:09 PM

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3623769
Good news, but slotted in there the note re issue of more shares....In line with the 2012 agreement for SeaDragon to acquire the marine oils
business, the company will issue 12.95 million shares to the vendors MerSea
Holdings Ltd and Bioscience Managers on 31 July 2014. The issue is the final
consideration due under the sales and purchase agreement and reflects the
marine oils business achieving a net profit before tax, depreciation,
amortisation of $1.2 million in the two years to
31 March 2014.
A mere drop in the ocean when you already have 1,863,954,194 shares out there!

Things sound reassuring. I see gross margins have improved somewhat over last year, albeit with lower revenue. Hope the share price picks up on this.

One question though... a somewhat large contributor to the 431,000 profit comes from 'other income' of 2,285,000, which wasn't there last year. Anyone know what this constitutes? Apologies if it's there but can't find it.

Dentie

30-05-2014, 07:19 PM

Things sound reassuring. I see gross margins have improved somewhat over last year, albeit with lower revenue. Hope the share price picks up on this.

One question though... a somewhat large contributor to the 431,000 profit comes from 'other income' of 2,285,000, which wasn't there last year. Anyone know what this constitutes? Apologies if it's there but can't find it.

Sales of SNK shares (They had 25 million to sell)

blah

30-05-2014, 08:59 PM

Sales of SNK shares (They had 25 million to sell)

thanks - does seem like it. I should probably brush up on my accounting since some matters around the Snakk sale don't quite make sense for me

ari

30-05-2014, 09:41 PM

thanks - does seem like it. I should probably brush up on my accounting since some matters around the Snakk sale don't quite make sense for me
Yep, same boat as SNAKK, there also seems to be more questions than answers........me thinks lots of creative accounting!

Snow Leopard

31-05-2014, 01:58 AM

If you strip out the Snakk selling profit, something that will not be repeated, then there is a fairly significant $1M8 loss operating loss on their primary business activities.

Operating cash flow not good again.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Dentie

31-05-2014, 06:42 AM

Agree PT. The amount of shares out there are a worry - hopefully they will do a reverse split. Spoke with Mr Preston and it's something they'll look at down the track but it's not a priority. He didn't seem concerned. Operating cashflow was not helped by lack of supply but they seem to have plugged that hole - for now. They've got cash, no debt, quality product/s with big demand, a new factory on its way and a CEO that knows his game inside out. Let's see where they are in 12 to 18 months time. Mind you, with the way SNK is starting to shake its booty - perhaps they should have waited on the sale...aint hindsight a wonderful thing??:ohmy:

I went to their last investor presentation and they certainly appear to know their game...had no trouble answering all the questions from a room full of "seasoned investors".

Apathy

05-06-2014, 02:15 PM

[QUOTE=Dentie;483867]Agree PT. The amount of shares out there are a worry - hopefully they will do a reverse split. Spoke with Mr Preston and it's something they'll look at down the track but it's not a priority. He didn't seem concerned. Operating cashflow was not helped by lack of supply but they seem to have plugged that hole - for now. They've got cash, no debt, quality product/s with big demand, a new factory on its way and a CEO that knows his game inside out. Let's see where they are in 12 to 18 months time. QUOTE]

This isn't actually correct - operating cash flow was actually negatively impacted by a $500k increase in inventory!? Not sure what it would have been given 'apparent shortage of material' Given Gross margin they are sitting on 10 months of sales in inventory?

Cash flow wouldn't be helped by debtors either - remarkably high at $1.3m on $3m sales? Aging will be interesting in full report.

$1.8m trading loss on $3m @ 26% GM suggests profitability unlikely to arrive before another round of fundraising. Be worth watching how much of recent funds raised actually ends up in capitall

iceman

05-06-2014, 06:19 PM

This isn't actually correct - operating cash flow was actually negatively impacted by a $500k increase in inventory!? Not sure what it would have been given 'apparent shortage of material' Given Gross margin they are sitting on 10 months of sales in inventory?

Cash flow wouldn't be helped by debtors either - remarkably high at $1.3m on $3m sales? Aging will be interesting in full report.

That should be of great concern. For a company that is planning a huge growth in production but has been unable to do so because of lack of raw material, yet still ends up with such a large increase in inventory ! Very odd.

Apathy

05-06-2014, 09:59 PM

I went to their last investor presentation and they certainly appear to know their game...had no trouble answering all the questions from a room full of "seasoned investors".

Here is a good one for one of the "seasoned investors" to ask for clarification on.... In the second 6 months of the year sales were $978,000. Trade and account receivables for year end were $1.182m ..... one would think for a product in such great demand with such limited supply availability SEA might be able to command better payment terms? $200k is over 6 months old...

Apathy

12-06-2014, 06:13 PM

Obviously got this one wrong - shares rocketing up to 2 cents on the back of a positive outlook - www.nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/251395

18 months operating at 24/7 (no mention of what that means in $$$$)- should be a fantastic half year result coming up. And absolutely nothing sinister about setting up a separate legal entity for new operation...

They may yet justify their current PE of 69.47!?

Dentie

12-06-2014, 07:35 PM

Obviously got this one wrong - shares rocketing up to 2 cents on the back of a positive outlook - www.nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/251395 (http://www.nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/251395)

18 months operating at 24/7 (no mention of what that means in $$$$)- should be a fantastic half year result coming up. And absolutely nothing sinister about setting up a separate legal entity for new operation...

They may yet justify their current PE of 69.47!?

I'm happy to sit and wait....

blah

13-06-2014, 09:21 AM

Apathy

13-06-2014, 10:38 AM

did anyone here attend the shareholders meetings held this week? I was intending to go but was pulled aside for some other matters.

I didn't see it on the slides, but it wonder whether there was any update on progressing their own brand of fish oils?

I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who attended - be fascinating to hear why they want to split the companies? There is no possible way it can provide any real commercial advantages. Duplication of costs alone for such small turnover rules that out. My guess - already realise they have at least one basket case so if they can separate it out, load costs into the dead duck and show the other to be 'profitable' it will increase their chances of raising more funds form shareholders next time - and that day will surely come again soon.

ari

19-06-2014, 09:20 AM

Slowly, slowly catcha.........Australasia's largest refiner and blender of fish oils, SeaDragon (NZX:SEA),
has announced that it has signed a second large squalene sales agreement that
will underpin its financial performance for the current financial year and
well into 2016.

Following on from its March announcement of a major new raw material supply
contract for its existing plant, and its May announcement regarding the first
significant large sales contract, SeaDragon has signed a second major sales
contract to take the refined squalene to customers throughout Australasia.

This second contract covers finished product using a significant amount of
the raw material obtained from the supply agreement. The names of the party
and the terms of the contract are confidential.

SeaDragon Chief Executive Ross Keeley said: "This contract represents another
significant win for SeaDragon and vindicates our decision to take bold steps
to secure raw material for our squalene processing factory."

"The combined contracts have a gross sales value in excess of US$6m for the
12 months commencing October 1st 2014. Given that these sales contracts do
not utilize all of the raw material contracted to be supplied to SeaDragon,
considerable upside exists in terms of both volume and sales value for the
balance of the finished product that will be produced."

"We are now very well positioned for the current financial year and beyond
and are looking forward to 2015 when the completion of our new oil refinery
plant in Nelson will allow a major expansion in our range of Omega-3 fish oil
products."

Contact
Ross Keeley
SeaDragon Chief Executive Officer
Telephone: 03 547 0336

Dentie

19-06-2014, 10:21 AM

This is nice to see!!

Apathy

20-06-2014, 12:05 AM

This is hilarious! May release - the first order was underwriting financial performance for current year and into 2016, share holder update - the SLO plant would be running 24/7 for at least 18 months........ and today the sales don't start till October 1st. In other words it all starts the day after the half year numbers finish.

Getting US$3m of the new sales into the current financial year is a big improvement - more than last years full year, but it needs to be compared to Edison reports...... would also be nice to know when they think they will be profitable or at least stop using capital raising for operational expenses.

Lots of talking but saying nothing..

easy money

24-06-2014, 09:40 AM

Apathy

24-06-2014, 10:49 PM

I notice 27 mil gone through this morning at 1.7c..major shareholder getting out....and another one getting in.

Well spotted - good old NZX shows it at as 1.8 cents but 30,727,513 shares for $526,097 is 1.7 cents.... the informed selling to the uninformed.

Apathy

24-06-2014, 10:59 PM

as a p.s. the turnover today was just over 1.6% more than triple the previous peak - only two shareholders have more than 1.5%...... am sure there will be a substantial holding notice out..

whatsup

27-06-2014, 10:31 PM

Well spotted - good old NZX shows it at as 1.8 cents but 30,727,513 shares for $526,097 is 1.7 cents.... the informed selling to the uninformed.

Was it you Easy Money, are you still a very big holder from the " old " days ?

Hawkeye

07-08-2014, 11:25 AM

For those interested in this Nelson based company.
https://www.nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/253586

Scooter

07-08-2014, 04:23 PM

Nice report. Think it has good prospects in future

Apathy

07-08-2014, 04:46 PM

I don't see how they can publish this with a straight face! I have visions of them all sitting round the table saying - lets make next year $15m --- $15m nah why not $20m... pah.. $25m? - lets go for $27m! All in agreement? Great - I'll drink to that... its Pythonesque. Its a smart play though - hire a PR firm masquerading as an analyst to publish fiction that an officer of the company would never dare to..

Dentie

07-08-2014, 04:49 PM

Apathy

07-08-2014, 05:03 PM

Think they have a Norwegian Blue as their mascot?

:t_up: and will we be arguing over whether it is actually dead or just pining in a year or 2?

Scooter

08-08-2014, 09:21 AM

Apathy

14-08-2014, 12:03 PM

quite hard to walk past at current price with the supply and sales contracts on the table, and the new factory being built to increase production capacity.
I'm in, they have done the hard work and yes, even a checkered background, but think they are sorted

I think lotto might be a more prudent investment but I guess it is about portfolio balance.... I just find it offensive that this sort of rubbish gets held out as some sort of financial analysis when it is pure unadulterated PR. They have gone from forecasting $1m profit on $10m to losing at $10m and building (leasing)a plant (not for expansion - but for new product/process that has yet to be proven.

Has been great for them though - $10-$20k on a report - .001 cent rise in share price and market capital up $1.8m ....

NT001

19-08-2014, 12:55 PM

Anybody have any impressions from the AGM? News coverage made it sound pretty optimistic, but were any hard questions asked and answered?

Dentie

19-08-2014, 01:02 PM

Anybody have any impressions from the AGM? News coverage made it sound pretty optimistic, but were any hard questions asked and answered?

Directors were asked for their credentials before being cemented in. Ross, as always knew his stuff and whistled through things but nothing financial released (of course). Chairman was asked why there were no woman Directors. Overall, I am happy to accept their confidence that things are on track. Having contracts for supply and sale is big I think and the new factory looks impressive - they have done their homework.

Apathy

19-08-2014, 08:38 PM

Directors were asked for their credentials before being cemented in. Ross, as always knew his stuff and whistled through things but nothing financial released (of course). Chairman was asked why there were no woman Directors. Overall, I am happy to accept their confidence that things are on track. Having contracts for supply and sale is big I think and the new factory looks impressive - they have done their homework.

Ok so first warning sign is in the face of some borderline accounting, a significant cash burn and forecast loses on $10m turnover the fact that the notable question was about gender mix goes to the quality of the audience.

In terms of the CEO ‘knowing his stuff’ the $15million in accumulated losses might suggest otherwise!?

Did no one ask how they could justify classifying the profit on Snakk shares as “ongoing operations”?

Did no one ask how they could justify issuing shares for meeting performance when the core business performance was appalling and well behind forecast?

Anyone want to know how they could take a paper profit prior year on the Snakk shares– write it off the balance sheet in New Year and book sale to P&L – again!

How about spending all the capital raised on plant for a product they don’t actually sell? Danger signs (and there are many) that they are looking to process anchovies? Last I saw we didn’t have a big anchovies catch in NZ?

Dentie

20-08-2014, 07:15 AM

Ok so first warning sign is in the face of some borderline accounting, a significant cash burn and forecast loses on $10m turnover the fact that the notable question was about gender mix goes to the quality of the audience.

In terms of the CEO ‘knowing his stuff’ the $15million in accumulated losses might suggest otherwise!?

Did no one ask how they could justify classifying the profit on Snakk shares as “ongoing operations”?

Did no one ask how they could justify issuing shares for meeting performance when the core business performance was appalling and well behind forecast?

Anyone want to know how they could take a paper profit prior year on the Snakk shares– write it off the balance sheet in New Year and book sale to P&L – again!

How about spending all the capital raised on plant for a product they don’t actually sell? Danger signs (and there are many) that they are looking to process anchovies? Last I saw we didn’t have a big anchovies catch in NZ?

Firstly, perhaps if you had ventured from behind the parapet long enough to attend, it may have raised the quality of the audience? Then you could have asked the questions that were important to you...

Secondly, in terms of the CEO "knowing his stuff" - I was referring to his technical knowledge of the game they are in. There is nothing worse than having a "generic" or "theoretical" CEO holding the reins of a company - but having no technical knowledge of that company's business operation. Recipe for disaster!

Thirdly, yes - I did get up and questioned both Ross and the CFO in respect to what effect the Snakk shares had on its profit. I noted how the sale of the shares accounted for turning around the previous year's loss and asked when we could expect a profit from trading operations. My queries were referred to Sean Joyce (legal) who promptly shook his head. Evidently, the questions I was asking were deemed as "price sensitive" and therefore went unanswered. They did however point out that they quit the SNK shares at the appropriate time - as they have lost value ever since.

Fourthly, I questioned them about when a reverse split was likely to happen and they advised it would happen when it was appropriate to do so. Meaning when it was in the best interests of the S/Holders.

Lastly, nobody is more aware of what held them back than the Board. It must be hard to swallow when your products are in hot demand and yet you can't secure enough material to fulfil that demand. That appears to have now changed and they have supply contracts in place going forward. They also added they still have good future demand. I think I would rather have that problem to contend with - than to have all the product ready to go in a fancy new factory - but no demand to warrant it.

Easy to be an arm chair critic Apathy...the Board has good credentials and the main players have their own skin in the game. Nothing like commitment and risk! Looking forward to next year.

Scooter

20-08-2014, 09:34 AM

Well said Dentie. I think the stars have started to align after the harsh history of the company. Worth a chance to let it run to reap the rewards for investing in this

Apathy

20-08-2014, 05:41 PM

Firstly, perhaps if you had ventured from behind the parapet long enough to attend, it may have raised the quality of the audience? Then you could have asked the questions that were important to you...

previous year's loss and asked when we could expect a profit from trading operations. My queries were referred to Sean Joyce (legal) who promptly shook his head. Evidently, the questions I was asking were deemed as "price sensitive" and therefore went unanswered.

Lastly, nobody is more aware of what held them back than the Board. It must be hard to swallow when your products are in hot demand and yet you can't secure enough material to fulfil that demand. That appears to have now changed and they have supply contracts in place going forward. They also added they still have good future demand. I think I would rather have that problem to contend with - than to have all the product ready to go in a fancy new factory - but no demand to warrant it.

Easy to be an arm chair critic Apathy...the Board has good credentials and the main players have their own skin in the game. Nothing like commitment and risk! Looking forward to next year.

I don't think there is any need to be so aggressive/defensive/personal as I was simply making observations - the forum is not just for cheer leaders who want to talk their investments up!

Its perfectly ok if you and I have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a successful CEO... I look for profit - you technical expertise.

I guess the alarm bell is they won't say when they will be profitable.... and yet they have no issue publishing third party "analysis" on when it will happen...

Unless they are profitable soon they will be back to shareholders as the money raised to date is going to new plant... or will the debt fund losses?

Dentie

20-08-2014, 07:48 PM

I don't think there is any need to be so aggressive/defensive/personal as I was simply making observations - the forum is not just for cheer leaders who want to talk their investments up!

Its perfectly ok if you and I have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a successful CEO... I look for profit - you technical expertise.

I guess the alarm bell is they won't say when they will be profitable.... and yet they have no issue publishing third party "analysis" on when it will happen...

Unless they are profitable soon they will be back to shareholders as the money raised to date is going to new plant... or will the debt fund losses?

Don't mean to get aggressive/defensive or personal Apathy and that includes this post. However, I do admit to posting in the same tone commensurate with whom I am replying to (incl all threads I post on - not just SEA). One glance at your historic posts clearly demonstrate what I am referring to.

Like most (all?) shareholders, I of course want to see them profitable as soon as possible. I also want to see them with a cash surplus from their "trading" operations and asked that question as well, but Sean Joyce shook his head on that as well. I think they should be allowed to openly share these financial type of questions with their shareholders (after all, they do own the company right?) but the rules around "protected" or "privileged" disclosure prevent them from doing so. It would put the company in hot water with the authorities and we don't want that!

There was no alarm bells here Apathy - they will have a good idea within the Board when they will be profitable - based on information they have at any one time and that includes Ross Keeley the CEO. They just can't share it with a selected few - not fair to others. So, for the rest of us, we just have to interpret/analyse the available financial info and make our own guesses.

There seems to have been a lot of thought go into the new factory in Nelson and, as a shareholder, I expect them to invest in the latest technology, plant & equipment in order to grow their operations. The factory itself is being purposely built for them and is being paid for by the Land Owner. They have negotiated forward contracts of supply of material - as well as customers for the end product. I'm happy that they are on track - but business is business and anything can happen - all they can do is control what they can in order to de-risk any uncertainties. They seem to have done that.

By the way - without being personal, I'm not a cheerleader and I don't need to talk my investments up.

Balance

20-08-2014, 08:28 PM

Firstly, perhaps if you had ventured from behind the parapet long enough to attend, it may have raised the quality of the audience? Then you could have asked the questions that were important to you...

Secondly, in terms of the CEO "knowing his stuff" - I was referring to his technical knowledge of the game they are in. There is nothing worse than having a "generic" or "theoretical" CEO holding the reins of a company - but having no technical knowledge of that company's business operation. Recipe for disaster!

Thirdly, yes - I did get up and questioned both Ross and the CFO in respect to what effect the Snakk shares had on its profit. I noted how the sale of the shares accounted for turning around the previous year's loss and asked when we could expect a profit from trading operations. My queries were referred to Sean Joyce (legal) who promptly shook his head. Evidently, the questions I was asking were deemed as "price sensitive" and therefore went unanswered. They did however point out that they quit the SNK shares at the appropriate time - as they have lost value ever since.

Fourthly, I questioned them about when a reverse split was likely to happen and they advised it would happen when it was appropriate to do so. Meaning when it was in the best interests of the S/Holders.

Lastly, nobody is more aware of what held them back than the Board. It must be hard to swallow when your products are in hot demand and yet you can't secure enough material to fulfil that demand. That appears to have now changed and they have supply contracts in place going forward. They also added they still have good future demand. I think I would rather have that problem to contend with - than to have all the product ready to go in a fancy new factory - but no demand to warrant it.

Easy to be an arm chair critic Apathy...the Board has good credentials and the main players have their own skin in the game. Nothing like commitment and risk! Looking forward to next year.

NZX and NZAX Reverse Listings

• Reverse listing of SeaDragon Marine Oils into Claridge Capital Limited on the NZSX

• Reverse listing of VMob Limited into Velo Capital Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse Listing of RIS Group Limited into Holly Springs Investments Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of Orion Minerals Group Limited into RLV No 3 Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of ICP Bio Limited into Australian Property Holdings Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse listing of Charlies Trading Company Limited into Spectrum Resources Limited on the NZX

• Reverse listing of Plus SMS Holdings Limited into RetailX Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of New Image International Limited into Selector Group Limited, a company listed on NZX

• Reverse listing of Media Technology Group Limited into Strathmore Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Queen Charlotte Holdings Limited by Aquaria 21 on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of AQL Holdings Limited by Organic Interceptor on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Strathmore Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Fever Pitch International Limited by Kidicorp Group Limited on the NZAX

whatsup

20-08-2014, 08:56 PM

NZX and NZAX Reverse Listings

• Reverse listing of SeaDragon Marine Oils into Claridge Capital Limited on the NZSX

• Reverse listing of VMob Limited into Velo Capital Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse Listing of RIS Group Limited into Holly Springs Investments Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of Orion Minerals Group Limited into RLV No 3 Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of ICP Bio Limited into Australian Property Holdings Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse listing of Charlies Trading Company Limited into Spectrum Resources Limited on the NZX

• Reverse listing of Plus SMS Holdings Limited into RetailX Limited on the NZAX

• Reverse listing of New Image International Limited into Selector Group Limited, a company listed on NZX

• Reverse listing of Media Technology Group Limited into Strathmore Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Queen Charlotte Holdings Limited by Aquaria 21 on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of AQL Holdings Limited by Organic Interceptor on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Strathmore Group Limited on the NZX

• Reverse takeover and listing of Fever Pitch International Limited by Kidicorp Group Limited on the NZAX

Mega into TRS

biker

21-08-2014, 10:47 AM

Anybody have a reference, if there is one, to a security of supply for the RFO (New factory and omega3) entity as opposed to the SFO (squalene) entity?

Apathy

21-08-2014, 11:17 PM

Anybody have a reference, if there is one, to a security of supply for the RFO (New factory and omega3) entity as opposed to the SFO (squalene) entity?

Nope - there is none, and not likely to be one as the domestic supply of suitable material wouldn't get close to supporting a 5000mt facility. Which is why I guess they are looking at Anchovies and CEO is in media berating the industry for not collecting more.

Apathy

21-08-2014, 11:25 PM

Like most (all?) shareholders, I of course want to see them profitable as soon as possible. I also want to see them with a cash surplus from their "trading" operations and asked that question as well, but Sean Joyce shook his head on that as well. I think they should be allowed to openly share these financial type of questions with their shareholders (after all, they do own the company right?) but the rules around "protected" or "privileged" disclosure prevent them from doing so. It would put the company in hot water with the authorities and we don't want that!

There was no alarm bells here Apathy - they will have a good idea within the Board when they will be profitable - based on information they have at any one time and that includes Ross Keeley the CEO. They just can't share it with a selected few - not fair to others. So, for the rest of us, we just have to interpret/analyse the available financial info and make our own guesses.

There seems to have been a lot of thought go into the new factory in Nelson and, as a shareholder, I expect them to invest in the latest technology, plant & equipment in order to grow their operations. The factory itself is being purposely built for them and is being paid for by the Land Owner. They have negotiated forward contracts of supply of material - as well as customers for the end product. I'm happy that they are on track - but business is business and anything can happen - all they can do is control what they can in order to de-risk any uncertainties. They seem to have done that.

1) the supply contracts and orders have nothing to do with the new factory. The new factory in fact has neither.
2) they must be the only company on the NZX unable to provide profit guidance?

biker

22-08-2014, 05:38 AM

1) the supply contracts and orders have nothing to do with the new factory. The new factory in fact has neither.

Thanks A, I thought so. Do you have a reference to any announcement about them looking at anchovies ? And wasn't that their point of difference, that they wouldn't be using anchovy like everyone else?
I presume a suitable supply of Hoki will never be available, which is what I thought the guts ( excuse the pun) of the business was going to be based on?

Apathy

22-08-2014, 09:44 PM

Thanks A, I thought so. Do you have a reference to any announcement about them looking at anchovies ? And wasn't that their point of difference, that they wouldn't be using anchovy like everyone else?
I presume a suitable supply of Hoki will never be available, which is what I thought the guts ( excuse the pun) of the business was going to be based on?

Smoke and mirrors - the Hoki Catch is 150,000mt - its one of the least 'oily fish' out there (half that of salmon) and they only will have access (at best) to the waste that gets processed on shore. Given the omega 3 content in a fillet is .2% doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that you won't be producing 5000mt of oil from that source. Salmon production is 1/10th of that.

Anchovies have been referred to a bit more lately - as well as Tuna (now there is a growth supply!) www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/10395819/Fish-oil-refiner-seeks-local-supply

NT001

23-08-2014, 12:46 PM

From today's Dom Post:

SeaDragon seeks fully NZ fish oil _ Stuff.co.nz

Apathy

23-08-2014, 10:24 PM

From today's Dom Post:

SeaDragon seeks fully NZ fish oil _ Stuff.co.nz

Great article - "But the company has had to make a plea to the domestic seafood industry for help, as it looks to import close to $10 million in raw materials this year.The listed Nelson-based company said in June that it had secured a second major sales contract that would boost annual revenue to at least US$6 million (NZ$7.08m)."

Strikes me as strange - plant is flat out 24/7 for next 18 months - annual revenue boosted to $7m (assume raw material content less than half of that) so they are purchasing almost triple what they can produce?

They can make these sort of nonsensical statements but can''t tell anyone when they will be profitable as its 'price sensitive' ..

Balance

24-08-2014, 10:05 AM

Great article - "But the company has had to make a plea to the domestic seafood industry for help, as it looks to import close to $10 million in raw materials this year.The listed Nelson-based company said in June that it had secured a second major sales contract that would boost annual revenue to at least US$6 million (NZ$7.08m)."

Strikes me as strange - plant is flat out 24/7 for next 18 months - annual revenue boosted to $7m (assume raw material content less than half of that) so they are purchasing almost triple what they can produce?

They can make these sort of nonsensical statements but can''t tell anyone when they will be profitable as its 'price sensitive' ..

Have a look at Certified Organics and ICP Bio - gives an idea of how some companies manage their PR.

Apathy

26-08-2014, 02:07 AM

Have a look at Certified Organics and ICP Bio - gives an idea of how some companies manage their PR.

Indeed - that's the company they are keeping which is shame. Seems to me they want to bet the house on new factory new product with no sales or raw materials instead of getting the shark oil business working - which it sounds like it could be.

That said the erratic releases probably bring that into question as well.

Dentie

26-08-2014, 06:44 AM

Indeed - that's the company they are keeping which is shame. Seems to me they want to bet the house on new factory new product with no sales or raw materials instead of getting the shark oil business working - which it sounds like it could be.

That said the erratic releases probably bring that into question as well.

Apathy - why are you so down on this Company? You have done nothing but bitch and moan and degrade and be generally negative no matter what SEA try and do. Is there something personal you've got going on with the firm that the rest of us don't know about?

Listen, I get that you don't like SEA...and that's fine. But unless you are prepared to either front up to the management with your concerns - or better still, put yourself up for election and then do better, then please give it a rest. This is not some sort of agony aunt thread.

I'm invested into SEA because I like their story and what they are trying to achieve. I believe they have the technical know how and associated business brains to do the job. If they end up going down the tube's then that's my problem. Either way, your posts won't influence my current thinking or future intentions.

Just sayin....

Balance

26-08-2014, 09:03 AM

Apathy - why are you so down on this Company? You have done nothing but bitch and moan and degrade and be generally negative no matter what SEA try and do. Is there something personal you've got going on with the firm that the rest of us don't know about?

Listen, I get that you don't like SEA...and that's fine. But unless you are prepared to either front up to the management with your concerns - or better still, put yourself up for election and then do better, then please give it a rest. This is not some sort of agony aunt thread.

I'm invested into SEA because I like their story and what they are trying to achieve. I believe they have the technical know how and associated business brains to do the job. If they end up going down the tube's then that's my problem. Either way, your posts won't influence my current thinking or future intentions.

Just sayin....

Steady on there, Sport - Apathy actually made some good points which he has backed up with discussions around his concerns.

As a shareholder, you should get yourself comfortable too?

blah

26-08-2014, 10:14 AM

Smoke and mirrors - the Hoki Catch is 150,000mt - its one of the least 'oily fish' out there (half that of salmon) and they only will have access (at best) to the waste that gets processed on shore. Given the omega 3 content in a fillet is .2% doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that you won't be producing 5000mt of oil from that source. Salmon production is 1/10th of that.

Anchovies have been referred to a bit more lately - as well as Tuna (now there is a growth supply!) www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/10395819/Fish-oil-refiner-seeks-local-supply (http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/10395819/Fish-oil-refiner-seeks-local-supply)

I think you should either a) do some proper research; or b) not spread misinformation given this proper research. To claim Hoki is one of the "least oily fish" out there is a blatant lie, though your claim that it's half of salmon appears to be true. A quick Google search will give you references that hoki is considered a rich source of Omega 3.

The second blatant piece of misinformation is that - and you know this - fish oils are not extracted from the fillet. Omega 3 is filtered out by the liver and is hence the place where the bulk of omega 3 oil is found.