Wynyard Group capital raising?

[sb9]

sb9 - You should ask scooter why he was able to participate in the big round yesterday (see his post) while you have to wait to in line to get the crumbs

Not too concerned about that Winner as the current holders charged as per below'

"The price of shares offered through the SPP will be the lower of $1.79, being the institutional placement price, or the average closing price of the five days prior to and including the closing date of the SPP".

[Harvey Specter]

Not too concerned about that Winner as the current holders charged as per below'The issue with the SPP is scaling. There are over 3500 shareholders per the last report so if they all apply and get an equal amount, the most you will get is $1.4k worth, not the $15k max.

Sam did participate in the capital raising which is a big sign of support from him.

[Harvey Specter]

yes scaling will be huge........so I just topped up on market @ $1.79 to avoid scaling.....now more SPP to go round....thanks snaps....you are welcome.Surprised it dropped that far. Would have though it would have retained a small margin over the issue price.

The small benefit of the SPP is we can wait to see if the overhang from the placement goes away. Major downside is locking up cash that will just be refunded once oversubscribed.

[000831]

If I purchase WYN.NZX today, still having chance to join the ASX IPO float? Sorry not familiar with the IPO procedure.

[BlackPeter]

If I purchase WYN.NZX today, still having chance to join the ASX IPO float? Sorry not familiar with the IPO procedure.

Not sure I understand the question ... what do you mean with "joining the ASX IPO share float"? If you hold WYN shares AND IF WYN floats its shares on the ASX (which they didn't yet, but plan to), than yes, your shares will feel any impact from this share float on the share price - ie. they might go up (or less likely down) depending on demand on the ASX.

Just thinking about other dual listed companies - and the effect of dual listings is not always positive:
ATM listed recently on ASX and the SP saw a short blip and than was back where it came from,
SUM listed some years ago on ASX, was basically a non event except additional listing costs for the company,
OHE is double listed ... and I am not sure, whether the double listing is an advantage for them ... the SP seems to tank anyway.

[lastmoa]

The new Wynyard news released today seems to be flying under the radar, whilst the SPP timeline rolls along. Would expect the markets to keep the SP close to the $1.80's but also think that maybe the market doesn't really understand the significance of this IT-related news.http://www.zdnet.com/article/motorola-solutions-teams-with-wynyard-group-for-crime-analytics/

This partnership with Motorola Mobility (m/cap $12billion) will help Motorola's law enforcement agencies to incorporate Wynyard's solution into their IT architecture (be that databases, libraries, etc). All in all good news.

[sammiesmiles]

https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/265607

so good, funds start to hold WYN.

[pedro1]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11463729

[Tsuba]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/wynyard-group-gains-nz40m-funding-ahead-of-asx-debut/

[Crow]

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/69271400/a-brokers-view-wynyard-group

[Tsuba]

http://www.governmentnews.com.au/2015/06/australias-first-cyber-budget/

[lastmoa]

http://www.governmentnews.com.au/2015/06/australias-first-cyber-budget/

Thanks Tsuba. There has been a few articles emphasising the importance Australia is now taking in this area. And for good reason too. Would not be surprised if we see some big headway made by WYN over the ditch by eoy.

[Tsuba]

And since the Yanks and the Aussies are like brothers one would hope big headway will follow in the good old U S of A.

[Tsuba]

http://www.techsonian.com/steady-technology-stocks-tripadvisor-trip-creecree-motorola-solutions-msi-plug-power-plug/12509744/

[Tsuba]

http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/ALJ526/crime-prediction-analytics-using-multiple-related-dynamic-networks-the-wynyard-group-crime-science-scholarship-/

[winner69]

http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/ALJ526/crime-prediction-analytics-using-multiple-related-dynamic-networks-the-wynyard-group-crime-science-scholarship-/

A good ramper would put a shorty comment about what the link leads to and why I should follow it

Tsuba, You need to seduce the punters

[Tsuba]

A good ramper would put a shorty comment about what the link leads to and why I should follow it

Tsuba, You need to seduce the punters

Am a man of few words most of the time......

Just posting the good old Google Alerts.

[Mista_Trix]

Locked content article on NBR today;
Title; "Focus shift for GCSB"
- By 2017, the GCSB will be doing more work in the private sector – Prime Minister John Key.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/subscribe/174640

The GCSB use the Planatir suite of tools;
Title; "Palantir Valuation Soars To $20 Billion"
http://www.fastcompany.com/3047851/fast-feed/palantir-valuation-soars-to-20-billion?utm_source=facebook

This was the main reason I didn't invest in the company when it first floated, the knowledge of just how big these guys were and how many places they were pushing their product into. I have become more interested in Wynyard lately... but am now slightly worried about their far larger competition.

Thoughts?

[silverblizzard888]

The GCSB use the Planatir suite of tools;
Title; "Palantir Valuation Soars To $20 Billion"
http://www.fastcompany.com/3047851/fast-feed/palantir-valuation-soars-to-20-billion?utm_source=facebook

This was the main reason I didn't invest in the company when it first floated, the knowledge of just how big these guys were and how many places they were pushing their product into. I have become more interested in Wynyard lately... but am now slightly worried about their far larger competition.

Thoughts?

Palantir have grown so big they really only go after very big customers so Wynyard actually aren't their competitors and nor are they Wynyards competitors technically. I also remember reading a ranking list last year where Wynyard was ranked higher than Palantir when it came to innovation if that helps in any regard.

[lastmoa]

Palantir have grown so big they really only go after very big customers so Wynyard actually aren't their competitors and nor are they Wynyards competitors technically. I also remember reading a ranking list last year where Wynyard was ranked higher than Palantir when it came to innovation if that helps in any regard.

Note that the ex-FBI Deputy Assistant Director chose to be on the board of Wynyard. Didn't go to any others.
Think there is a fantastic opportunity whilst Wynyard is gaining global clients and still having a conservative market cap. Exciting times ahead. Sure Palantir is a big fish but Wynyard is showing it is gaining traction in various international markets.

[sb9]

Will be applying for my full rights but pleased I topped up this week as scaling will be huge.
Top 4 share holders now own almost 50% of the company.

snapiti, what's your take in the light of consistent sp drop in the lead up to share purchase plan. What I mean is it better to buy off market now rather than wait to know till allocations are finalised (may be scaled). Appreciate your thoughts...

[Harvey Specter]

not maybe scaled.....you will be scaled for sure.

But maybe the price will go even lower so SPP could be at a lower price than today.....but could be higher as well.
I bought my allotment on market to avoid scaling.
Will add more if the shareprice goes much lower.
Look what happened to VML - companies completely different but the share price is doing the same thing. Why would you apply to the SPP if the price keeps falling. Hold on a few days and see what the price does.

[couta1]

Look what happened to VML - companies completely different but the share price is doing the same thing. Why would you apply to the SPP if the price keeps falling. Hold on a few days and see what the price does.
Yep and the chart looks ugly.

[lastmoa]

yes especailly with the Greek thing.
I have a buy more price set though

Yes, Snapiti. I loaded up in the low $1.60's so will probably not participate in the SPP.
Getting my topup amount at a lower p;rice than the institutions was an unexpected bonus so happy with that. Now will sit back and follow the unfolding WYN story and try to ignore noise.

[psychic]

Hmm, Just be aware lastmoa that Snapiti thought $2.40 was a bargain when he loaded up ex the cap raise a year ago where the insto's paid $2.70!
And the SP is now $1.65..?

I'm holding WYN but I'm not sure about the great buying opportunity..

[lastmoa]

Hmm, Just be aware lastmoa that Snapiti thought $2.40 was a bargain when he loaded up ex the cap raise a year ago where the insto's paid $2.70!
And the SP is now $1.65..?

I'm holding WYN but I'm not sure about the great buying opportunity..

If you are in WYN for the long term then any lower SP doesn't really matter in the whole scheme of things. imho.
I am happy where the company is at and going to ... the SP can do its thing.

[sb9]

Good on ya snapiti, hats off to your conviction.

[couta1]

Actually to back Snapiti up I remember on several occasions when he stated he thought it was overvalued at over $2 so can't see why he would load up at $2.40

[Yoda]

Trend is your friend.
wise man one said," they can always go lower.."



In light of my past experience , and present circumstances, and my future hopes end dreams , what would be the wise thing to do ?

do i buy now, or wait until the trend goes over the 200?
Mmmm
better ask jaja binks

[BlackPeter]

Trend is your friend.
wise man one said," they can always go lower.."



In light of my past experience , and present circumstances, and my future hopes end dreams , what would be the wise thing to do ?

do i buy now, or wait until the trend goes over the 200?
Mmmm
better ask jaja binks

I would go with the words of the wise man ...

If it looks like a downtrend and it feels like a downtrend and if the board is favouring external capital to existing shareholders (remember the latest CR - why didn't they go with renounceable options?) and if the income potential looks negative for a long time to come - why would you want to rush to get in?

[couta1]

Trend is your friend.
wise man one said," they can always go lower.."



In light of my past experience , and present circumstances, and my future hopes end dreams , what would be the wise thing to do ?

do i buy now, or wait until the trend goes over the 200?
Mmmm
better ask jaja binks RSI still below 20, MACD still showing negative signal but then again there's be greedy when others are fearful:eek2:

[Tsuba]

Old news but new news in this publication.

http://www.hstoday.us/briefings/industry-news/single-article/motorola-solutions-and-wynyard-group-partner-to-bring-advanced-crime-analytics-to-law-enforcement/63f9932aeca606d4a64fed1c1447a449.html

[Tsuba]

Apparently the cyber security stocks have become flavor of the month after the computer glitch today on Wall Street. I wonder if the lemmings and short sighted impatient ones will jump back in and push the share price up today.The WYN chart looks worse than the PEB one Schnaps.

[Tsuba]

The business chap on the radio this morning said that was the case in the US of A snaps.

[psychic]

Just a reminder that the SPP closes today

Under the SPP, eligible shareholders may apply for share parcels in multiples
of NZ$500, up to a maximum value of NZ$15,000.
The price of the shares issued under the SPP will be the lower of:
- $1.79, being the Placement price; and
- the average closing price of Wynyard shares traded on the NZX Main Board,
calculated over the five business days prior to and including the closing
date of the SPP (10 July 2015).

So maybe $1.61 if it were to close today at current ask price $1.59

From Findata
DATE OPEN HIGH LOW CLOSE VOLUME
10/07/15 1.590 1.590 1.590 1.590 16,475 ...as of 11am
09/07/15 1.620 1.620 1.560 1.580 158,034
08/07/15 1.620 1.630 1.620 1.620 74,343
07/07/15 1.650 1.650 1.620 1.620 101,749
06/07/15 1.620 1.640 1.620 1.640 48,580

[Harvey Specter]

So maybe $1.61 if it were to close today at current ask price $1.59I've been surprised by the weakness but it hasn't been a great week. Will be interesting to see if the SP reacts once the SPP has closed. The 'smart money' bought in at $1.79 with Sam Morgan topping up recently at ~$2.10. Personally I think this company has potential and continue to hold.

[lastmoa]

I've been surprised by the weakness but it hasn't been a great week. Will be interesting to see if the SP reacts once the SPP has closed. The 'smart money' bought in at $1.79 with Sam Morgan topping up recently at ~$2.10. Personally I think this company has potential and continue to hold.

Whichever price 'smart money' bought in on, they will be looking more at the WYN developments than short-term SP movements. Being a long-term holder I spend more time reading the latest news on global cyber-security issues than watching daily movements. I am getting more excited as time goes by. Think WYN is onto something special here. DYOR.

[zigzag]

Who's at Sun Valley? Alexander Carp, co-founder and CEO of Palantir, in all his geeky glory. Picture on Reuters homepage slideshow - picture number 7.

[zigzag]

"Palantir, a big data firm, is currently raising US$500mill. in new funding at a valuation of US$20billion - making it one of the most valuable private concerns in Silicon Valley. Palantir was formed to analyse data for American spy agencies, but has since branched out to offer services for other firms, including banks." Economist-27/06/15. Maybe one day Wynyard will be up there?

[Tsuba]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/07/09/with-publicengines-and-wynyard-motorola-looks-to-curb-competition-and-increase-service-revenues/

[zigzag]

I don't know about Wynyard, but I do know that Diligent stores data in Canada because they have much better privacy laws. I've bought into the SPP, but I have held some cash back as I'm not sure which way the market is going at the moment. Note what happened with the placement and SPP last year.

[winner69]

I firmly believe WYN has a huge takeover target on it's back and wont be listed on the NZX by year end 2016.


That's how I see it as well mate.

No idea who but somebody will take the opportunity ....at what price?

[trader_jackson]

hmm so did anyone else see the announcement today that of the $5m SPP barely 50% of it was taken up? I am not personally surprised as the share price has continued to decrease...

Although I don't know alot about WYN, I think this, and a decreasing stock price over recent times, is very disappointing outcome. It seems relatively isolated to WYN as well, as other speculative companies seem to be ok. Having said this, I do believe they have a 'nice' product with potential. Then again, maybe they don't need $2.5m extra cash?

(and yes snapiti this is a much worse result than PEB, despite a potentially more favorable structured capital raising [SPP rather than rights issue] - I am still waiting for the explanation on how great the capital raising has been and how fast all the shares had been snapped up etc... further still, those that paid $1.79 and diluted the shares for everyone else must not be to happy so far knowing in less than a month they have lost almost 13%... I hope for them this trend does not continue!)

Lets hope it is a take over target, maybe they will make a great offer to share holders of $1.75-$1.80? a nice premium at current prices...

[lastmoa]

hmm so did anyone else see the announcement today that of the $5m SPP barely 50% of it was taken up? I am not personally surprised as the share price has continued to decrease...

Although I don't know alot about WYN, I think this, and a decreasing stock price over recent times, is very disappointing outcome. It seems relatively isolated to WYN as well, as other speculative companies seem to be ok. Having said this, I do believe they have a 'nice' product with potential. Then again, maybe they don't need $2.5m extra cash?

(and yes snapiti this is a much worse result than PEB, despite a potentially more favorable structured capital raising [SPP rather than rights issue] - I am still waiting for the explanation on how great the capital raising has been and how fast all the shares had been snapped up etc... further still, those that paid $1.79 and diluted the shares for everyone else must not be to happy so far knowing in less than a month they have lost almost 13%... I hope for them this trend does not continue!)

Lets hope it is a take over target, maybe they will make a great offer to share holders of $1.75-$1.80? a nice premium at current prices...

Takeover target? Trader_jackson, are you on drugs to be happy with a $1.80 sp. The potential of wyn is much larger than this if only some shareholders would learn to become investors a day not traders.

[bmrm]

hmm so did anyone else see the announcement today that of the $5m SPP barely 50% of it was taken up? I am not personally surprised as the share price has continued to decrease...

Although I don't know alot about WYN, I think this, and a decreasing stock price over recent times, is very disappointing outcome. It seems relatively isolated to WYN as well, as other speculative companies seem to be ok. Having said this, I do believe they have a 'nice' product with potential. Then again, maybe they don't need $2.5m extra cash?

(and yes snapiti this is a much worse result than PEB, despite a potentially more favorable structured capital raising [SPP rather than rights issue] - I am still waiting for the explanation on how great the capital raising has been and how fast all the shares had been snapped up etc... further still, those that paid $1.79 and diluted the shares for everyone else must not be to happy so far knowing in less than a month they have lost almost 13%... I hope for them this trend does not continue!)

Lets hope it is a take over target, maybe they will make a great offer to share holders of $1.75-$1.80? a nice premium at current prices...

Man talk about a short time horizon! I love Wynyard at these prices (helps that my net cash invested is essentially negative at this point). Echoing others on this thread huge potential market, ideal customers (govt and large corporates), decent product and team. A SP at this level also gives them a more room to manage expectations, expect some big jumps at earnings rather than glum head-shakes.

[bmrm]

Hate being two-in-a-row on a thread (like a nerd) but this is nothing other than good news for Wynyard: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/278780/nz-firms-welcome-foreign-govt-contract-deal

[moimoi]

Hmm wonder if the late crossing yesterday of 1,120,000 @ $1.55 was the capitulation trade of the recent selling..

RSI has bounced off 20...is the bottom in??

[biker]

Hmm wonder if the late crossing yesterday of 1,120,000 @ $1.55 was the capitulation trade of the recent selling..

RSI has bounced off 20...is the bottom in??

Hope so moimoi. Buying at 1.61 for the long term. Always nice to buy lower than the institutions and big players in a capital raise. Doesn't mean it wont go lower short term. Surprised the SPP didn't go better but capital wise it doesn't mean much after the CR. A benevolent gesture to current shareholders who obviously weren't interested.

[sb9]

Hope so moimoi. Buying at 1.61 for the long term. Always nice to buy lower than the institutions and big players in a capital raise. Doesn't mean it wont go lower short term. Surprised the SPP didn't go better but capital wise it doesn't mean much after the CR. A benevolent gesture to current shareholders who obviously weren't interested.

I guess market want to see more facts and the sp will respond accordingly when the results are announced next month. I'm picking the results will be quite encouraging with good momentum helped also by lower nzd. I didn't participate in the recent spp.

[silverblizzard888]

I think the result will be better than they suggested because of the low NZ dollar. When we think of exporters we think of physical product companies like dairy and such too much, but WYN is an exporter themselves and will benefit greatly from the low NZ dollar too.

[BlackPeter]

I think the result will be better than they suggested because of the low NZ dollar. When we think of exporters we think of physical product companies like dairy and such too much, but WYN is an exporter themselves and will benefit greatly from the low NZ dollar too.

Long term - yes; short term - I doubt it, but depends on their hedging policies (which I don't know). Still more important would be in my view a plan to profitability to give people at least a chance to value the company. The OHE and XRO principle does not work for everybody - and at this stage I am not even sure, whether it works for the two.

[Baa_Baa]

Hmm wonder if the late crossing yesterday of 1,120,000 @ $1.55 was the capitulation trade of the recent selling..

RSI has bounced off 20...is the bottom in??

Could be moimoi, good observation. The RSI bounce and MoneyFlow might be just due to the large volume though, which has tweaked those indicators, i.e. not representative of general trading sentiment which has been bearish since the huge spike in Jan 2014.

I really do like WYN but got out at $1.92 at a very small loss, which in hindsight I'm pleased about now, but I'd like to get back in. What's stopping me though is despite continued good news from the company, the SP keeps waning.

As BP correctly pointed out, like a few other NZ techs that give little or no guidance, and have no profit and no plans to profitability, it's impossible to value the company. Personally I don't consider it 'investing' if you can't value the asset, so falls into the category of speculation, where I like to be a lot more active managing capital.

So purely on TA with no technical price support below here until the Jan 2014 spike from $1.16, I'll stay out until at least the SP crosses my favourite 10/14 weekly EMA's to the upside.

7480

[lastmoa]

What's stopping me though is despite continued good news from the company, the SP keeps waning.
As BP correctly pointed out, like a few other NZ techs that give little or no guidance, and have no profit and no plans to profitability, it's impossible to value the company. Personally I don't consider it 'investing' if you can't value the asset, so falls into the category of speculation, where I like to be a lot more active managing capital.
So purely on TA with no technical price support below here until the Jan 2014 spike from $1.16, I'll stay out until at least the SP crosses my favourite 10/14 weekly EMA's to the upside.
7480

I would rather be in this one now than try to guess an exacting bottom. I am happy holding long term with a break even under $2. Tempting to buy more at these prices and have been even though I am topped up enough now.
I do not see investing in this, and some other techs, as speculation. Some are I agree. I do not see it as the sole importance that you cannot apply traditional valuation calculation methods to what the company has, because there are not the required figures yet. I research many techs and select the ones that I see promise in their IP, I understand their space and story, and they have started to monetise (proven they can monetise) their idea. Yes, the volatility of tech is not for everyone - maybe not suited to your style, with all due respect.

[Baa_Baa]

I would rather be in this one now than try to guess an exacting bottom. I am happy holding long term with a break even under $2. Tempting to buy more at these prices and have been even though I am topped up enough now.
I do not see investing in this, and some other techs, as speculation. Some are I agree. I do not see it as the sole importance that you cannot apply traditional valuation calculation methods to what the company has, because there are not the required figures yet. I research many techs and select the ones that I see promise in their IP, I understand their space and story, and they have started to monetise (proven they can monetise) their idea. Yes, the volatility of tech is not for everyone - maybe not suited to your style, with all due respect.

Seems to me that while you question my 'style' you misunderstand what I wrote. I'm happy to buy tech, I also understand their space, and have a significant proportion of my portfolio in the tech sector and I like WYN ... but sold it while it searches for a reversal of the sustained downtrend. What I also said lastmoa is that I'm happy not losing more capital on WYN and will wait for a confirmed uptrend, which is rather different than your interpretation of picking an exact bottom. Good luck with your holding.

[Onion]

http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/24/palantir-raises-450-million-now-valued-at-20-billion/?ncid=rss&cps=gravity_1730_935090810689946864


Palantir, the makers of a data analytics platform used by government agencies, law enforcement, as well as financial, insurance, retail and healthcare industries, has confirmed by way of an SEC filing that it has raised an additional $450 million in a new round of funding. The filing indicates the company had offered $500 million in stock, which means $50 million more could still be in the works. According to a report by the WSJ, the funding was raised at a valuation of $20 billion, up from its late 2014 valuation of $15 billion.

The capital raising itself is valued at more than Wynyard.

According to https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/securities/WYN:
Capitalisation (000s): $218,099

[silverblizzard888]

Sources say Palantir's revenue is about 500 million or maybe slightly higher, but a 500 million revenue is a P/E of 40 given 20 billion valuation
If you give that P/E to WYN we'd have a 1.6 billion MCAP valuation (based off 40 million revenue to come), but thats the difference between US and NZ valuations.

Its funny because Xero gets that valuation of multiple of 20, 120 million revenue giving it 2.4 billion in MCAP, but possibly since it has more exposure in the US market. If WYN got that valuation it would be 800 million MCAP.

So given we have those valuations doesn't WYN seem cheap now? Cheap as chips?

[Harvey Specter]

Sources say Palantir's revenue is about 500 million or maybe slightly higher, but a 500 million revenue is a P/E of 40 given 20 billion valuation
If you give that P/E to WYN we'd have a 1.6 billion MCAP valuation (based off 40 million revenue to come), but thats the difference between US and NZ valuations.

Its funny because Xero gets that valuation of multiple of 20, 120 million revenue giving it 2.4 billion in MCAP, but possibly since it has more exposure in the US market. If WYN got that valuation it would be 800 million MCAP.

So given we have those valuations doesn't WYN seem cheap now? Cheap as chips?What is the revenue growth though - you need to tie the revenue multiple to the revenue growth.
WYN multiple of less than 10 does look a bit light.

Disc: Holding ​on for dear life!

[theace]

Still spiraling downwards .... need some news .... new signup announcements appear to have gone quiet.

[Tsuba]

Would be interested to hear Snaps take on it since he was singing from the rafters over this. But he seems to be on a permanent holiday / fishing trip. Anyhow hopefully they sign some of those big contracts that were alluded to or at least give the market some sort of good announcement soon.

[moimoi]

Hmm wonder if the late crossing yesterday of 1,120,000 @ $1.55 was the capitulation trade of the recent selling..

RSI has bounced off 20...is the bottom in??

Well the $1.55 clearly wasn't the bottom. $1.47 yesterday. A chunky trade of $3M has gone through today. Milford continuing to sell down....

Off 30% inside 6 months. Doesn't look like a stock with a currency tailwind behind it.

[psychic]

Another big parcel through today, you think it was Milford moimoi? I'd understood that the reduction by Milford in the last month or so was due to their losing the Mercer funds rather than any change in support. Had fancied there was a little more strength after the cross today. Lets see I suppose, but sure has been a disappointment lately. The big guys stung twice in the cap raises, they be wanting some news I think.

[GR8DAY]

......bottomed out at 147? (even the greatest of companies will do this on NO NEWS!!).......I feel like there's a big announcement just round the corner?.....better go do some SPYING me thinks.

[Onion]

......bottomed out at 147?

A bottom is only a bottom until there is a a new bottom! Or have I got that arse about face?

[lastmoa]

WYN could sure help the Aust authorities in this case : http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/70913056/Carly-McBride-Facebook-account-deleted-hours-after-she-vanished

Just another real life example of how WYN tech can be applied. Add to that also the area of Insurance Fraud, as detailed on the Wynyard website.

[Tsuba]

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4292711.htm

[Tsuba]

A bottom with no bottom. :confused:

What a bummer.....

[BeeBop]

I don't own any of these but have been considering a very small speculative holding, it doesn't fit any of my criteria for investment. Today seems to have had a bit of a seller....does anyone have a handle on why the share price is drifting even further down?

[IAK]

General weakness in all the software companies e.g. Orion, Wynyard, Diligent, Xero.

[moimoi]

From $2.20 to $1.40 in 6 months with price declines accelerating in the last month..

A daily posting of the top 40 holdings to the company website would assist retail investors to attempt to decipher who have been the sellers.

Interium results due within 2 weeks. Not alot of good news there it would seem if the shareprice is a barometer......

[lastmoa]

Yes, interim results will make interesting reading. Sure are some puahing this down on no bad news. All good as I accumulate more.
I like the space they are in, the more research I do. This thing will rocket back up on new large contract news.

[Yoda]

Who's still holding? My nose is beginning to bleed as i compare the SLI chart....... Not sure if i can take much more. I know,.... ill sell some . Then the SP will go up.

[Absolute144]

My guess is the price decline could have been related to overseas investors losing money on the capital value of their shares while the NZD was in decline. I bought some today because the recenltly underwritten placement and share purchase plan was priced well above current value and they now have some money in the bank. Am hoping their update is around what they forecast.

[mayday]

Wynyard is reaching to Fiji :)
http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=318744

[BlackPeter]

Wynyard is reaching to Fiji :)
http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=318744

Pretty content free article ... but still, I guess this highlights some of the challenges for a company like Wynyard marketing their systems. They can be used to detect and fight against crime ... but they can be used as well by governments to sniff out and spy on their own population. Maybe Fiji would use them to further suppress any opposition? Just depends on who is currently in power. Same as selling guns ... some people use them for good purpose and some for bad ...

[Baa_Baa]

Tough time in the market generally, let alone to be reporting a significant increase in losses over the same period last year. https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/219230.pdf Not sure how the market will react to this, but looks like the 100% retrace of the Jan6 2014 breakout at $1.16 could be in play. Who would've thought it!

[BlackPeter]

Tough time in the market generally, let alone to be reporting a significant increase in losses over the same period last year. https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/219230.pdf Not sure how the market will react to this, but looks like the 100% retrace of the Jan6 2014 breakout at $1.16 could be in play. Who would've thought it!

Ouch - increased revenue by $4 million, increased cost by $9 million, cashburn $17.5 million (all just for 6 months). Recent capital raise brought in roughly $38 million - i.e. give it another year or so and they are ready for the next Cap raise.

Still a very sexy industry, but maybe the company should look for sponsors instead of for profit-oriented shareholders;).

[Harvey Specter]

Ouch - increased revenue by $4 million, increased cost by $9 million, cashburn $17.5 million (all just for 6 months). Recent capital raise brought in roughly $38 million - i.e. give it another year or so and they are ready for the next Cap raise.

Still a very sexy industry, but maybe the company should look for sponsors instead of for profit-oriented shareholders;).Sam Morgan bought in recently above $2. Institutions bought in recently at $1.80. They would have been expecting this and can see the long term prize. The market for tech co's (all co's?) is bad at the moment. Hopefully they dont have to do a down round next year but I think they will - a couple of big wins and it could go up quickly though.

[ratkin]

I want to like these guys, migt take a punt when the dust eventually settles.

[Ggcc]

http://m.geekzone.co.nz/News/Read?newsId=18532

[sb9]

Thanks for that Ggcc, surprised to see nothing been put out by Wynyard to NZX to this affect. Thought it was reasonably good announcement worth publishing on NZX.

[Crow]

Good find..
Very strange no announcement on this.
Thanks Ggcc


http://m.geekzone.co.nz/News/Read?newsId=18532

[theace]

Bit more coverage
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/71738039/reserve-bank-buys-crimefighting-software-from-wynyard
http://www.zdnet.com/article/reserve-bank-of-nz-deploys-wynyard-software-for-risk-management/

[Yoda]

Did see a bit of upward movement today though maybe as a result,
it feels like the bottom hit at 1.15 last week. Up over 10% from there..... Time to get more maybe before the word gets out. From here to $2 would be > 50%. Any bets before christmas?

[mayday]

Did see a bit of upward movement today though maybe as a result,
it feels like the bottom hit at 1.15 last week. Up over 10% from there..... Time to get more maybe before the word gets out. From here to $2 would be > 50%. Any bets before christmas?

1.50 - 1.60 provided no more CR (after ASX listing) :t_up:

my 2c

[lastmoa]

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/en/news-events-blog/wynyard-group-technology-helps-nsw-fair-trading-manage-and-investigate-cases/

Another WYN WIN with expansion potential.

[Tsuba]

They are quietly plugging along.All good.....

[Ggcc]

Seems to be a big seller still going or am I reading it wrong? Milford maybe? Great company in the long run with huge potential.

One analyst says buy, another says hold, pointing towards and outperform.

I Topped up this morning, but I am well aware that the company is more likely to need at least two more CR before analysts predict break even roughly 2018-2019.

I am relatively new to share forum and any help would be greatly appreciated.

[BlackPeter]

Seems to be a big seller still going or am I reading it wrong? Milford maybe? Great company in the long run with huge potential.

One analyst says buy, another says hold, pointing towards and outperform.

I Topped up this morning, but I am well aware that the company is more likely to need at least two more CR before analysts predict break even roughly 2018-2019.

I am relatively new to share forum and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, it is an interesting industry, but WYN is neither the only nor the largest player. They may or may not survive and strive.

Not sure about your investment strategy, but topping up in a downtrend is brave (and some might use other words - KW?) ... why not simply waiting until the trend changes and / or until you are able to calculate the value of the company?

Analysts said as well that CRP is a steal, that PEB is a buy and that BRL is worth more than a dollar (per share, nota bene) ... sometimes they are right (for a time window) and sometimes they are wrong - its like relying on next years weather forecasts.

If you are new to investing - remember the benefits of diversification ... and personally I wouldn't put too many eggs into highly speculative shares (as WYN) anyway. However - if you must speculate, than there might be more promising growth companies around - WYN's sales growth y to y (21.7 to 26 mio) is certainly not spectacular for a startup.

Discl: not holding & DYOR. Invest safely :)

[sb9]

I think the problem is with whole of NZ Tech industry, just look at XRO,SLI,OHE,SKO and of course WYN. Mr Market wants to see "proof in the pudding", until then nothing is gonna change.

As BP said, its bit hard to pick up bottom atm....

[lastmoa]

I agree somewhat with you stating that in NZ tech there is a problem with investors and the industry. The NZ (and Aust) investor has not until recently been exposed to tech like USA, so tries to fit traditional methodology to their investing here. Many are impatient and want a profit tomorrow rather than look at the potential for further down the road. Rome was not built in a day and for (in particular) WYN and XRO to expand into the USA market will take time and drain funds but I am an investor excited about the global potential of some (not all) of these NZ companies and rather that than be a big fish in a small NZ/Aust pool. Not all texh is created equal so you have to try to understand the space as much as the numbers, imho.
If you invest in a few (say 4-5) such companies you only need one to 'hit it out ot the ballpark.' The others can go under if you must. Bit too risky investing, and too much research work, for the average investor but each for our own.

[Ggcc]

Thanks BP for the advise. I tend to be conservative and keep well over half of my investments in relatively safe stocks. I am only 39 and still working, so being a bit risky does not matter too much, if I believe in the longterm of the company.

I agree that the tech stocks are being hammered as people want dividends (which they pay tax on). I would rather receive capital gains, as I have an income which I tend to save a lot of anyway (I live a content lifestyle).

Has anyone noticed there is a big seller..... but there seems to be a relatively big purchaser. I have no proof of this, but just an observation.

[Tsuba]

Another contract

http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/wynyard-software-helps-hope-justice-fight-human-trafficking/5/231915

[moimoi]

New 52 week low, accelerating downtrend, down near enough 45% in 4 months....

According to the company "Wynyard is in one of the hottest technology markets with serious crime fighting software to help solve some of the world's most challenging security problems."

So if the macro environment for their product is rapidly growing what is the problem here?

Company specific..?

[BlackPeter]

New 52 week low, accelerating downtrend, down near enough 45% in 4 months....

According to the company "Wynyard is in one of the hottest technology markets with serious crime fighting software to help solve some of the world's most challenging security problems."

So if the macro environment for their product is rapidly growing what is the problem here?

Company specific..?

I guess they sold a good story without supporting numbers - and the initial effect of all those good (but unquantified) news is slowly wearing down.

Quite slow growth rate for a "growth company" (particularly considering that they are (even if everything goes well) still for many years to come cash negative. Sort of a XRO without the growth factor.

Might go like RAK, PEB or GEN (well, hopefully for shareholders not the latter)? The initial hype is fading and solid earnings still far away. Some will make it and others not and the jury for WYN is still out.

[bmrm]

To put the slow growth in perspective, WYN is currently trading at ~3x NTA whereas XRO is at ~7x. IMHO WYN management should be easily able to convert that capital into sufficient growth to justify a significantly higher valuation. I think WYN is a victim of the current mood away from growth stocks, but I really can't see this being the norm for long.

From memory they listed at $1.10 and, even if their growth has been slower than (somewhat inflated) expectations, they certainly haven't been destroying value. I would be topping up at these prices if I had the spare capital.

[sb9]

Part of the blame for tech companies lies with Xero and Orion, purely on the basis that they are yet to deliver on their promises and smaller companies like WYN are suffering due to that. Mr Market telling them to "show me the results."

I think lower NZD should help them and hope they all have a better 2016.

[Harvey Specter]

From memory they listed at $1.10 and, even if their growth has been slower than (somewhat inflated) expectations, they certainly haven't been destroying value. I would be topping up at these prices if I had the spare capital.Yes but they raised further capital at much higher levels.

[bmrm]

Yes but they raised further capital at much higher levels.

Which sucks for those who bought at those levels but shouldn't be a factor in analyzing the stock today.

[Harvey Specter]

Which sucks for those who bought at those levels but shouldn't be a factor in analyzing the stock today.Disagree. Sophisticated investors (Sam Morgan, insto's, those on here) bought at those high prices (Im refering to new stock, not trading existing stock) thinking that was fair value. As such, the company has destroyed fair value in the eyes of the market.

[Absolute144]

Disagree. Sophisticated investors (Sam Morgan, insto's, those on here) bought at those high prices (Im refering to new stock, not trading existing stock) thinking that was fair value. As such, the company has destroyed fair value in the eyes of the market.

Harvey, do you think there was any other option? If the company needed to raise capital , what other way could it be done without destroy fair value?

[bmrm]

Disagree. Sophisticated investors (Sam Morgan, insto's, those on here) bought at those high prices (Im refering to new stock, not trading existing stock) thinking that was fair value. As such, the company has destroyed fair value in the eyes of the market.

Not sure if I would describe Sam Morgan as a sophisticated investor, but I take your point. Absolute144 is right though, a big benefit of listing is the easy avenue to raise capital, and the company has an obligation to its existing shareholders to raise at the best price possible. WYN has done exactly the right thing.

[Harvey Specter]

Harvey, do you think there was any other option? If the company needed to raise capital , what other way could it be done without destroy fair value?Sure they had to raise more cash and due to their responsibility to shareholders, had to raise at the highest price they could. But the fact is the market now thinks the company is worth less than half what it did at its peak. I can only assume that is because they think momentum is slowing. THe PR engine was running hot at the start announcing 'big' deals (terms werenever really disclosed) on a regular basis - this seems to have stopped or at least he buy in of those announcements has.

Disc: Held from IPO and topped up a bit at each capital raising. a fool in other words

[blobbles]

I guess they sold a good story without supporting numbers - and the initial effect of all those good (but unquantified) news is slowly wearing down.

Quite slow growth rate for a "growth company" (particularly considering that they are (even if everything goes well) still for many years to come cash negative. Sort of a XRO without the growth factor.

Might go like RAK, PEB or GEN (well, hopefully for shareholders not the latter)? The initial hype is fading and solid earnings still far away. Some will make it and others not and the jury for WYN is still out.

Agree. 40% growth at this stage is not good enough. They should be aiming for Xero like numbers in terms of growth - 70% plus. Too expensive by far at todays prices, revenue multiple of ~5.8 with average growth rates. DIL ~5.1 BUT are making a profit and are adding to their cash pile every year plus still getting half the growth of WYN. A better (and safer) buy at these levels.

Anyone know what their customer retention levels are?

[Baa_Baa]

We might have differing approaches to investing, whether being in or out at any particular point in time, but WYN is a quality company with excellent solutions for a world where peace is unlikely to break out any time soon.

Some prefer to keep buying the down trend, others will exit in disgust, while a few may be patiently watching from the sidelines as they see value magnifying against declining sentiment.

Soon enough WYN will be a screaming buy again, whichever way you look at it. When? Well who knows, but fewer care, it will be soon enough. WYN is not going out of business, it's going from strength to strength. Confusing the company's opportunity with the shareholders sentiment is folly.

JMO, read the chart it will tell you when.

BAA

[Tsuba]

Another contract

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/wynyard-group-technology-helps-bin-belaila-exchange-meet-new-anti-money-laundering-regulations-529880681.html

[BlackPeter]

We might have differing approaches to investing, whether being in or out at any particular point in time, but WYN is a quality company with excellent solutions for a world where peace is unlikely to break out any time soon.

Some prefer to keep buying the down trend, others will exit in disgust, while a few may be patiently watching from the sidelines as they see value magnifying against declining sentiment.

Soon enough WYN will be a screaming buy again, whichever way you look at it. When? Well who knows, but fewer care, it will be soon enough. WYN is not going out of business, it's going from strength to strength. Confusing the company's opportunity with the shareholders sentiment is folly.

JMO, read the chart it will tell you when.

BAA

interesting statement, Baa_Baa - are you working for their marketing department?

To be honest - I have no way to assess where they go from here ... and am wondering what you know that we don't?

You said that WYN is a "quality company". How do you measure that?

You said that WYN is providing "excellent solutions". Again - how do you measure that? I would have thought that the only one able to assess the latter is the customer - and so far there don't seem to be enough to pay the bills ...

Don't misunderstand me, I think they are an interesting company in a growth industry, but I have absolutely no indications whether they are going to survive and thrive or whether they will roll up their toe nails after another handful of capital raisings.

I would like to understand why you are so certain about the outcome ... I assume you hold?

[Baa_Baa]

interesting statement, Baa_Baa - are you working for their marketing department?

To be honest - I have no way to assess where they go from here ... and am wondering what you know that we don't?

You said that WYN is a "quality company". How do you measure that?

You said that WYN is providing "excellent solutions". Again - how do you measure that? I would have thought that the only one able to assess the latter is the customer - and so far there don't seem to be enough to pay the bills ...

Don't misunderstand me, I think they are an interesting company in a growth industry, but I have absolutely no indications whether they are going to survive and thrive or whether they will roll up their toe nails after another handful of capital raisings.

I would like to understand why you are so certain about the outcome ... I assume you hold?

I have made it clear in previous posts re my position with WYN, but to summarise I sold my holding months ago to avoid capital losses. My own research and sources give me confidence in Wyn's solutions, the company and their market. I'll buy a re-entry at some stage which I will determine using my price charts.

[lastmoa]

Another contract

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/wynyard-group-technology-helps-bin-belaila-exchange-meet-new-anti-money-laundering-regulations-529880681.html

Nice to see progress being made in all geographical locations that WYN is trying to make progress in.
Yes, I am a long term holder topping up where possible when funds allow. Trying to somewhat ignore the SP 'noise' and focus my research on the developments they are making, and the industry they are in. Exciting times ahead me thinks. Share the (paper) pain but not the gloom.

[bmrm]

Looks like the floor has come in? I wish I had some spare skrilla to top up at these levels.

[BlackPeter]

Looks like the floor has come in? I wish I had some spare skrilla to top up at these levels.

Still in a confirmed downtrend, ways below MA50 and MA200. As well - very light trading on this last tick upwards. I guess - sure, at some stage it is likely to go up again, but why do you think this moment is now?

[ratkin]

Looks like the floor has come in? I wish I had some spare skrilla to top up at these levels.

We have been hearing these sort of comments for months, but the floor keeps going lower

[lastmoa]

So does the time before end of 2015 - they due to announce ASX listing and new productS completion. Plus from researching I understand that the cogs are turning nicely behind the scenes. Rather be in at these levels than find that perfect buttom. Much more upside than downside imho. I recently put my $$'s where my thoughts are.
Once this goes .....

[GR8DAY]

..agree LASTMOA, cashed out a while ago but bought back in recently. Bright future ahead for Wynyard IMHO.

[Ggcc]

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3990256

Looks like this little message may have stirred up some interest. It would be a very positive outcome for Wynyard and investors if overseas institutions gave their financial backing.........

Other people's thoughts please :)

[ratkin]

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3990256

Looks like this little message may have stirred up some interest. It would be a very positive outcome for Wynyard and investors if overseas institutions gave their financial backing.........

Other people's thoughts please :)

We see these short term reactions to investor briefings all the time, especially in thinly traded stocks liike Wynyard. They have a good story to sell which sounds positive. However, in terms of profits it makes not a jot of difference

[sb9]

Good announcement from them today, hope they can deliver on that. Wonder when the ASX listing is going to be, they said last quarter of this year. Shouldn't be too far away I think.

[BlackPeter]

Good announcement from them today, hope they can deliver on that. Wonder when the ASX listing is going to be, they said last quarter of this year. Shouldn't be too far away I think.

Be careful what you wish for. ASX currently much closer to Bear than NZX ... and WYN wouldn't be the first company where the share price gets dragged down by its ASX listing. Just look at what happened to CEN after its ASX listing - Australian investors got the share at a discount and had nothing better to do than immediately selling this funny NZ stock, dragging the SP on both sides of the Tasman down. A couple of days later (after damage done) nobody on the ASX cared anymore about CEN - no trades anymore.

Might be still much more risky for a high tech company than for a solid Gentailer ...

[lastmoa]

Yes, seemed to halt the slide. I read a few more positives in the presentation than juat this bit about overseas investor interest.
An ASX listing is a positive from the angle I see it. Whilst it ian't the be-all it does open up trading a bit more.
All around I'd say a good day. Pleased to have been buying on these opportunistic dips.

[GR8DAY]

.....wots the techy folk got to say about this one now? .......not into charting but it's starting to look like a well supported climb off the sub-$1.20 lows it hit not that long ago. Tide turning maybe..... to use a non-techy mariners term??

[BlackPeter]

.....wots the techy folk got to say about this one now? .......not into charting but it's starting to look like a well supported climb off the sub-$1.20 lows it hit not that long ago. Tide turning maybe..... to use a non-techy mariners term??

Maybe ... but if you look at the graph below - the current peak (right potato) does not yet look more convincing than the spike in June 15 after which the decline continued.

7680

IMHO a bit early to call it a trend change, and as well quite low volumes - but who knows? Obviously at some stage it needs to be the bottom, but I wouldn't bet my last shirt that this is now.

[GR8DAY]

...cheers BP. I do believe (for whats that worth) that Wynyard are (very) well positioned to take advantage of this global trend in cyber crime. Right place, right time..........great products. Im a believer! (and buyer)

[silverblizzard888]

Up 7.69% today, looks like the interest for this stock is back on!

[Ggcc]

Looks like another rise on the way today...... Thoughts black Peter please as I don't work charts.

[BlackPeter]

Looks like another rise on the way today...... Thoughts black Peter please as I don't work charts.

I don't work charts either ... but from time to time (particularly if I want to buy or sell a stock) do I find it useful to look at them;)

Look Ggcc ... charts tell you what the market used to do and what it is currently doing (and they help you to identify the chance of trend changes a bit earlier than you would otherwise). It is a statistical tool which helps you to determine the likelihood with which future events might happen (but it doesn't predict future events).

As any statistical tool - its accuracy improves if your available data set contains a sufficiently large number of (statistically independent) events.

At this stage I do see six small trades at 1.45, which is not a statistical relevant number of events.

So yes - there is at this stage a quite small number of people who intend to buy a quite small number of shares at higher prices than yesterdays closing price.

Sort of like a few small snowballs rolling down a wintery slope. Will they cause an avalanche? I don't know ... it might be sensible to monitor, but I wouldn't yet call the next DOC office.

Discl: not holding;

[mayday]

BP, the volume traded wynyard's sp all the way down ain't big either. The only SSH notice during such period was Salt Funds increased their holding from 5 to 6.3%. Given unchanged fundamentals, its sp could be pushed up easily (by any positive news) as we've seen for last few days.

The company forecasts >50% FY15 revenue growth and consider a U.S. listing in 3-5 years
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/223114.pdf

Me reckon it is one of sound companys for long-term investment

Disc: Holding
Estimated price range: 1.5 - 1.6 by Xmas

[Baa_Baa]

Here you go, the Weekly price chart I've mentioned here before. The 10/14EMA trend lines help me get in and out of strong trending shares, along with other dark art things like DMOR!

Earlier this week WYN fired off the buy signal (crossing the 10EMA) and yesterday it pulled the trigger (crossing the 14EMA). That said, the move seems to be on thin news (and some have suggested thin volume, I haven't check TBH) and the indicators have quickly gone to overbought. Personally I'm happy to wait for a 10/14EMA crossover and a strong uptrend confirmation, even if it means buying in a lot higher.

Disc: not holding, this is not advice, it's jmho and always dyor.
BAA

7681

[GR8DAY]

...thanks BaaBaa. Yep still a lot of recovering to do to get back to where it was a year ago. From memory I think a lot of folk were paying over $3 for this stock at one stage (correct me if Im wrong)....so many will be watching, hoping......pleased Im not one of them but lets hope it gets back up there for their sakes.

[blobbles]

Fundamentals still too weak to support the SP up here methinks. Growth far too low. Today's price action smells fishy to me...

[BlackPeter]

BP, the volume traded wynyard's sp all the way down ain't big either. The only SSH notice during such period was Salt Funds increased their holding from 5 to 6.3%. Given unchanged fundamentals, its sp could be pushed up easily (by any positive news) as we've seen for last few days.

The company forecasts >50% FY15 revenue growth and consider a U.S. listing in 3-5 years
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/223114.pdf

Me reckon it is one of sound companys for long-term investment

Disc: Holding
Estimated price range: 1.5 - 1.6 by Xmas

Well ... that's not quite correct - while the volume the way down was not huge either - it used to be in average much higher than the current upleg - and I see on the way down a number of days with more than a million of shares crossing the table.

I am as well not sure, whether I would call Wynyard a "sound" investment ... but you said "sound company", and I am not sure how you measure that.

What I am seeing is:

Moderate growth company (promising more growth for the years to come) in an interesting industry. I am rather sure, the industry will do well, but they do have competitors, and some of them are significantly larger than WYN. They run a loss and it is not quite clear to me when they plan to get into the black numbers. Cash burner, had already a CR and likely to need more money next year or so ...

I see them in the same category as PEB, XRO maybe OHE ... startups with big potential, big losses and very vague but big promises, and we don't know yet, how good they are in delivering on them.

Sure, their PS looks not too bad, but as long as they write losses, even good sales will not keep them alive. I am not sure, how to value them - are you?

[winner69]

BP somebody posted his link on the Geop thread. You might find interesting (not specific to any company


http://recode.net/2015/10/22/the-arrogance-of-tech/?utm_content=buffera2e2d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[lastmoa]

BP somebody posted his link on the Geop thread. You might find interesting (not specific to any company


http://recode.net/2015/10/22/the-arrogance-of-tech/?utm_content=buffera2e2d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Thanks for the article. He uses the car industry as an example for the basis of his opinion as to why he thinks the tech industry get ahead of itself thinking it can change sectors better & faster than incumbents. But, with cars as the example, sure they have come a log way, but they still use petrol, have a combustion engine, depend on a driver, etc, etc, just live 1900's. Maybe a fresk mindset. is needed sometimes to kick certain sectors up the pants. I can think of the electricity providers, banks, taxi industry, tv content provider, just to name a few, where without tech disription the status quo would remain.
Do agree with his comments on collaboration and cheering of losses where no clear path to profitability is showing ... but very easy to bash tech without considering consequences.

[bmrm]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/272289

[GR8DAY]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/272289



......well you.ve got to hand it to these guys. Is there another co. that is this proactive in pushing there product onto the global stage? .......and also top marks for keeping the market in the picture. The good news just keeps rolling out. Well done Wynyard directors.

[blobbles]

WYN shares catapult 23% breaking a clear downward trend for apparently no reason, a few days before they announce a new customer representing almost 10% increase in revenues.

Not fishy at all. FMA? Absent as usual.

[Ggcc]

It may just be an institution that topped up...... By spending over the last three days trades the company valuation has increased by $31,000,000........ If new investors come into the picture institutions shares would dilute a great number in %. No massive amount of conspiring. I think institutions are just safe guarding themsleves in case a new investor comes on board with a similar amount to Xero.. But please I am just also making assumptions based on no facts, just thinking outside the square.

[Ggcc]

By institution. I mean major shareholders in the company. Sorry

[bmrm]

Not fishy at all. FMA? Absent as usual.

Well, it's been less than a week, how quickly would you like the FMA to act? It isn't a shoplifting, they can't just pop down and do a quick arrest, most of the trades haven't even settled yet.

[blobbles]

Well, it's been less than a week, how quickly would you like the FMA to act? It isn't a shoplifting, they can't just pop down and do a quick arrest, most of the trades haven't even settled yet.

They have issued speeding tickets for less...

[blobbles]

It may just be an institution that topped up...... By spending over the last three days trades the company valuation has increased by $31,000,000........ If new investors come into the picture institutions shares would dilute a great number in %. No massive amount of conspiring. I think institutions are just safe guarding themsleves in case a new investor comes on board with a similar amount to Xero.. But please I am just also making assumptions based on no facts, just thinking outside the square.


It seems you are clutching at straws here.

THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION, NOT FACT:

I recognised some fishy price action BEFORE the release had occurred, if you read above. I think investors need to be wary here - a company who makes products specifically designed for catching fraud and identifying criminality appears, in my opinion, to be a party to fraud itself or in the very least an accessory. If you believe they are in breach of continuous disclosure agreement, which I do, you should question your investment in them. DYOR.

[GR8DAY]

It seems you are clutching at straws here.

I recognised some fishy price action BEFORE the release had occurred, if you read above. I think investors need to be wary here - a company who makes products specifically designed for catching fraud and identifying criminality appears, in my opinion, to be a party to fraud itself or in the very least an accessory. If you believe they are in breach of continuous disclosure agreement, which I do, you should question your investment in them. DYOR.

.....wow!, that's a hell of a claim BLOBBLES........I'd be doing the wise and prudent thing if I was you and (quickly) withdrawing it.

[blobbles]

.....wow!, that's a hell of a claim BLOBBLES........I'd be doing the wise and prudent thing if I was you and (quickly) withdrawing it.

Why? It is clearly my opinion as I use the words "opinion" and "believe". Clearly it is not fact, but just a reasonable opinion given the evidence. I am allowed to have opinions. If I report this as fact though, which it is not, then that is libelous. If it turns out as fact, I can be the first to say "told ya so!". :-)

[blobbles]

.....wow!, that's a hell of a claim BLOBBLES........I'd be doing the wise and prudent thing if I was you and (quickly) withdrawing it.

There, I made it more clear :-)

[Baa_Baa]

.....wow!, that's a hell of a claim BLOBBLES........I'd be doing the wise and prudent thing if I was you and (quickly) withdrawing it.

Difficult to withdraw when you have quoted him for posterity. Nevertheless, whatever the real reasons for the move, the SP was technically very oversold and the movement period in question did break-up through the 50EMA which may be a simple reason shareholders or traders were emboldened and bought back in, thinking the rout is/was over. The announcement albeit on face value looked good, also co-incided with the rapid SP rise and it stands to reason some who bought very low might be taking short term profits.

Jmo, dyor
BAA

[blobbles]

Difficult to withdraw when you have quoted him for posterity. Nevertheless, whatever the real reasons for the move, the SP was technically very oversold and the movement period in question did break-up through the 50EMA which may be a simple reason shareholders or traders were emboldened and bought back in, thinking the rout is/was over. The announcement albeit on face value looked good, also co-incided with the rapid SP rise and it stands to reason some who bought very low might be taking short term profits.

Jmo, dyor
BAA

Hmmmm... I see it differently.

The short run prior to the increase from 1.1 to 1.23 failed to gain momentum and break the 50 day MA. This would usually indicate a slide back or leveling out, would it not?

Then a sudden turn around on the 20th, rising from 1.23 to 1.52 over the next 7 days. This, to me, is an inexplicable 23% increase in SP, 1 week from a major announcement. 360k+ shares traded hands on the share price rise. Far too much of a coincidence for me. The SP has been trading in such a tight range for so long, yet 1 week from a major announcement it shoots up, breaking the trading range it has been in for over a year?

While this can and definitely does happen, the timing seems to be waaaaay off to me. Am happy to be proved wrong, but it smells way too fishy for my liking.

I have messaged the FMA that they should look into WYNs continuous disclosure regarding the timing, will see what comes of it.

[Bilbo]

Hmmmm... I see it differently.

The short run prior to the increase from 1.1 to 1.23 failed to gain momentum and break the 50 day MA. This would usually indicate a slide back or leveling out, would it not?

Then a sudden turn around on the 20th, rising from 1.23 to 1.52 over the next 7 days. This, to me, is an inexplicable 23% increase in SP, 1 week from a major announcement. 360k+ shares traded hands on the share price rise. Far too much of a coincidence for me. The SP has been trading in such a tight range for so long, yet 1 week from a major announcement it shoots up, breaking the trading range it has been in for over a year?

While this can and definitely does happen, the timing seems to be waaaaay off to me. Am happy to be proved wrong, but it smells way too fishy for my liking.

I have messaged the FMA that they should look into WYNs continuous disclosure regarding the timing, will see what comes of it.

The way I saw it, the rise startred on the 21st following their investor presentation - https://www.nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/272067
I sold a while ago at 2.10 and have been waiting for a re-entry point. The release on the 21st was enough for me to consider buying as I could see it generating demand for the stock from institutions etc. I decided not to buy as I don't like the fundamentals enough yet, but did recognize the potential for a short term trade. I would think the rise from 21st to just before the latest announcement could easily be put down the the investor presentation of the 21st.

[Baa_Baa]

The daily chart shows quite clearly the rise through the 50EMA on Oct 21st, which some take as a good buying signal, it was heavily oversold some brief time before that. There are two 'gap ups' showing buyer confidence, through the 100EMA and then it folded just before the 200EMA and the steep down-trend resistance line, and at the same time the indicators said overbought - take profits. I'm not saying there isn't something questionable behind the move, but I suggest there is a simple more benign explanation.

7695

JMO.
BAA

[blobbles]

Am absolutely happy to be proven wrong about this as I would like to invest in WYN as I love their product. Just calling it how I see it.

I also don't mind eating humble pie - I got a response from the FMA today who see it the same was as others here, full response below:

----------------------------
Thank you for your query below regarding Wynyard Group Limited (Wynyard).

Wynyard released an announcement accompanied by an investor presentation at 8.32am on 21 October. The announcement contained a statement that Wynyard “has received a number of inbound enquiries from overseas institutional investors interested in Wynyard’s story and keen to better understand the company’s growth prospects”.

The increase in the share price you have referred to began after this announcement was released, and we believe the increased interest is likely a result of the statement above. However, NZX will carry out checks on trading prior to both this announcement and the subsequent announcement on 27 October regarding the new contract.

I trust this answers your query.

Regards,
Lola Costello
----------------------------

They don't sound entirely convinced themselves.

[lastmoa]

A nice link to show the extent of Wybyard potential globally in juat one area:

BAA[/QUOTE]http://m.smh.com.au/national/australian-banks-report-huge-rise-in-suspected-terrorism-transactions-20151104-gkqu08.html

[Ggcc]

https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=4013468

This looks promising.

[blobbles]

Market likes it. Potential Xero like catapult?

[silverblizzard888]

Raising $30 million at $2 a share is amazing stuff, proves how undervalued it is currently and the potential that exist.

Currently at $1.65, I see no reason why it should not be $2 if they will not only will be loaded on capital, but the confidence of new investors.

Also NEW PRODUCT RELEASE OF ACTA THIS QUARTER (whatever that is X) !

[fiasco]

Very promising news, it further cements WYN's existing projects, global identity, workload and further development.

[Tsuba]

Washington appointment.

http://www.washingtonexec.com/2015/11/wynyard-group-names-susan-aarons-director-of-federal-operations/

[mayday]

Washington appointment.

http://www.washingtonexec.com/2015/11/wynyard-group-names-susan-aarons-director-of-federal-operations/

If Wynyard can settle a deal with FBI in the near future, we shall see the company's share price going up several folds over following years

[lastmoa]

Good find Tsuba. Thanks.
Looks like a quality appointment with good experience with 'big fish.'
Looks like overseas investors are seeing the potentual of this coy before the NZ investor who is too busy focussing on short-term profitability and technical trending. Oh well, I'm loaded up for the long haul.

[fiasco]

A question for members on here, any indication when WYN is listing on the ASX? Last I saw was before the end of the year?

[Mista_Trix]

If Wynyard can settle a deal with FBI in the near future, we shall see the company's share price going up several folds over following years

They wont be able to.
Palantir is all over the US and NZ intelligence community - they were one of the main reasons NZ intel went with them - "look who we've already got".

[Leftfield]

They wont be able to.
Palantir is all over the US and NZ intelligence community - they were one of the main reasons NZ intel went with them - "look who we've already got".

Ssssooo today's news little help then?

WYN
13/11/2015 09:38
GENERAL
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0938 HRS Wynyard Group Limited

GENERAL: WYN: Wynyard Signs $4.5M Agreement with National Security Agency

WYNYARD SOLUTION TO HELP PROTECT CRITICAL NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE

[lastmoa]

Don't agree with you there, Mista.
Time will tell and I will predict 'time' will be in 2016.

[Mista_Trix]

Ssssooo today's news little help then?

WYN
13/11/2015 09:38
GENERAL
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0938 HRS Wynyard Group Limited

GENERAL: WYN: Wynyard Signs $4.5M Agreement with National Security Agency

WYNYARD SOLUTION TO HELP PROTECT CRITICAL NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE


...Do you understand that that's a completely different organisation...? :-S

[Ginger_steps_]

They wont be able to.
Palantir is all over the US and NZ intelligence community - they were one of the main reasons NZ intel went with them - "look who we've already got".

Why would the FBI only use one organisation for intel?! Of course they have a chance!

[mayday]

can any legend do a chart read pls? looks wyn has just broken MA180, bollinger signs a BUY signal though

[Mista_Trix]

Why would the FBI only use one organisation for intel?! Of course they have a chance!

Just to put in context, I'm all for this company, but I have a slightly more realistic understanding of the competition having seen Palantir in action in a work environment (its incredible).

The NSA is a very different type of data set than the FBI, its a SIGINT (Signals intelligence) organisation - same as GCSB here, or GCHQ in the UK. Nodes, connections, passage of information flows. (Quantitative)
The FBI is (predominantly) a HUMINT organisation - same as the CIA (external to country collection) NZSIS (both internal and external) and MI5 and MI6, or , the data set is completely different. Informants, proximity, validation of opinions (Qualitative).

Think of intelligence as a series of concentric rings; the highest security clearance sits in the middle (e.g. Top Secret), with rings that sit consecutively around the outside (e.g. Secret, Confidential). It's way safer for the data set (whatever it looks like) to put in one intelligence software solution, permission it in the same way as the concentric rings, then task them to build algorithms that pull information links etc. out of different portions of that data set.

Having multiple providers in that space is incredibly risky for the data set.
A lot easier to do in a quantitative SIGINT environment (NSA) than a qualitative HUMINT environment (FBI).

Hope this helps inform that I'm not just having a poke for the sake of having a poke. :)

[mayday]

Another massive terrorist attack(s) in Paris.....my heart with Parisians. They targeted European countries when they were unable to re breach the US border. But this is the second time happened in Paris (the capital of France) in less than a year... French government must react seriously this time. DGSI definitely needs more supports than FBI.

[mayday]

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/en/products/advanced-crime-analytics/

[blobbles]

So with the "big investors" willing to take a big stake at $2 to help WYN grow, what's everyones thoughts at future prospects?

Looks to me like a potential Xero situation. If someone takes a major stake (quite likely in my books given the quality of the product and the need for it), I can see $10-20 pretty easy based on a good growth rate. The increased growth rate is still quite a way down the line, but I think a major addition of funds and some good US contacts could be a very interesting trigger.

[BlackPeter]

So with the "big investors" willing to take a big stake at $2 to help WYN grow, what's everyones thoughts at future prospects?

Looks to me like a potential Xero situation. If someone takes a major stake (quite likely in my books given the quality of the product and the need for it), I can see $10-20 pretty easy based on a good growth rate. The increased growth rate is still quite a way down the line, but I think a major addition of funds and some good US contacts could be a very interesting trigger.

Good comparison to XERO. And yes - they well may be successful at the end, as well as XERO might be (both companies have my best wishes). However - doesn't mean that now is a good time to buy in. Remember the XERO SP hump after some US investors added capital?

Mind you - might be a good opportunity for traders (if you time it right), but as investor I prefer to wait until there is at least a clear pathway to earnings ... there is still a long time of ongoing losses to go to cool down the current excitement.

Discl: DYOR

[Tsuba]

Another 0.9 million contract. These contracts are all adding up......;)

[bmrm]

Another 0.9 million contract. These contracts are all adding up......;)

Nice validation of their pricing, that they can get that sort of money out of one (albeit large sounding) bank, landing a big law enforcement fish should be many multiples of that.

[theace]

More (Potential) business .... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11546075

[Tsuba]

More boxes being ticked. Maybe after the dust has settled down with the nervous sells she may head north again and again.

[lastmoa]

This is bigger news than the latest 'contracts' news. Tbis is one step I wanted to see. Exciting times ahead and I hope NZ investors, invest for the longer term, on this while they still can at these sub-$2 levels

[bmrm]

Never rains but it pours:

https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/273520

[Tsuba]

I like the rain. ;)

[Thor]

Clearly management have had a mandate to pump the share price up, and so far this stream of news is achieving this goal. But we must dig deeper.


On the surface everything looks great, however we need to remember that their FY15 revenue guidance back in May was $40 to $45 million. Their 1H15 result was $14 million, this means for the 2H they need to generate $26-31 million.


It appears that they are announcing any significant deals around the $1M+ mark. When they can’t disclose the party they simply don’t release any information about them, so we can assume they are releasing all significant deals to the market.


So far since 1H15 result we have had announced deals worth only $11.1 million. A huge shortfall on their guidance. With only 6 weeks left in their financial year they must win many more deals to meet guidance.


Perhaps they are reporting only 1/3 of their deals, but why? They also have reaffirmed the $40-45M a few times since May, so we can be sure it’s not going to be over this, we can also expect expenses to sky rocket for FY15. If they miss guidance the market will punish them, as FY14 result was not impressive.


I’m just playing devils advocate, because with all the hype one can forget about the fundamentals.

[ratkin]

Good post there, Thor

[blobbles]

Clearly management have had a mandate to pump the share price up, and so far this stream of news is achieving this goal. But we must dig deeper.


On the surface everything looks great, however we need to remember that their FY15 revenue guidance back in May was $40 to $45 million. Their 1H15 result was $14 million, this means for the 2H they need to generate $26-31 million.


It appears that they are announcing any significant deals around the $1M+ mark. When they can’t disclose the party they simply don’t release any information about them, so we can assume they are releasing all significant deals to the market.


So far since 1H15 result we have had announced deals worth only $11.1 million. A huge shortfall on their guidance. With only 6 weeks left in their financial year they must win many more deals to meet guidance.


Perhaps they are reporting only 1/3 of their deals, but why? They also have reaffirmed the $40-45M a few times since May, so we can be sure it’s not going to be over this, we can also expect expenses to sky rocket for FY15. If they miss guidance the market will punish them, as FY14 result was not impressive.


I’m just playing devils advocate, because with all the hype one can forget about the fundamentals.

Good points Thor. I do wonder - are there levels of disclosure whereby they do not release anything to market, at request of the client? I can understand why a client would ask them not to release anything sometimes - any client information could potentially tip off people about products they are using to try and detect fraud, thereby giving information to fraudsters that they can use to evade detection. It would be dependent on the client - for instance " a major internet search company " would just be double speak for google, most likely. "A major NZ bank" can be narrowed down to 4 quite easily, if 2 already have the product then the its a 50% chance. This could be the reason they are under reporting their deals though. They also may have many small sales for their cheaper products. For instance their fraud analytics software is probably quite cheap and 500 sales of these at say 10k each (am guessing at pricing and numbers) isn't going to trigger an announcement, but will add to the revenue figure significantly.

The cash burn might step up to what? 20m a year next year? Nothing to worry about though if you have some major backers! (maybe :-S) Particularly if they are keen to see 80% growth (a-laa Xero). With Xero seemingly on a profit trajectory (or maybe just taking a breather), profitability might not be as far away as people think.

For Wynyard, its a different kettle of fish. Their products get more and more compelling the more people they sell to and the more crime is detected. A slow but more effective sales strategy.

[bmrm]

Clearly management have had a mandate to pump the share price up, and so far this stream of news is achieving this goal. But we must dig deeper.


On the surface everything looks great, however we need to remember that their FY15 revenue guidance back in May was $40 to $45 million. Their 1H15 result was $14 million, this means for the 2H they need to generate $26-31 million.


It appears that they are announcing any significant deals around the $1M+ mark. When they can’t disclose the party they simply don’t release any information about them, so we can assume they are releasing all significant deals to the market.


So far since 1H15 result we have had announced deals worth only $11.1 million. A huge shortfall on their guidance. With only 6 weeks left in their financial year they must win many more deals to meet guidance.


Perhaps they are reporting only 1/3 of their deals, but why? They also have reaffirmed the $40-45M a few times since May, so we can be sure it’s not going to be over this, we can also expect expenses to sky rocket for FY15. If they miss guidance the market will punish them, as FY14 result was not impressive.


I’m just playing devils advocate, because with all the hype one can forget about the fundamentals.

Remember that all these deals are a mix of one off and recurring revenue, same goes for those in the past. They're not a whaling ship, they will still be receiving revenue from past deals, and will only be realizing a portion of the announced deals. Given they have re-affirmed guidance a bunch of times, I can only assume they're not announcing a bunch of smaller, boring, revenue streams.

[sb9]

Hmmm...call me cynical but these announcements of late makes you think that there is bit of push to romp up the sp in light upcoming private placement.

Agree with your views there Thor. While these announcements are positive, you can't help but be bit sceptical re the timing. Mind you the contracts are worth over a period of few year not just for this FY.

[biker]

Clearly management have had a mandate to pump the share price up, and so far this stream of news is achieving this goal............


.

I dont think that is clear at all. The mandate would seem to be to get the word out internationally how good their products are with further capital investment in mind. They have achieved that. Investors have responded and the market has reacted accordingly. The recent significant shareprice rise is simply a very welcome by-product of a wider realisation of what WYN are all about.

[silverblizzard888]

Hmmm...call me cynical but these announcements of late makes you think that there is bit of push to romp up the sp in light upcoming private placement.

Agree with your views there Thor. While these announcements are positive, you can't help but be bit sceptical re the timing. Mind you the contracts are worth over a period of few year not just for this FY.

I think you're right about the ramping, but it seems alright they are just readjusting their approach to the market, as they have learnt that no news causes the share price to drop, which isn't good for capital raising at all or even retaining existing shareholders. The share price is up 9.8% pre-open so not bad for their efforts.

I don't think they announce all contracts at all or even a fraction of them, they are more announcing contracts that have significance to show the shareholders that: a)they can get big money contracts and b) they can get the best clients out their and can compete.

Interestingly their forecast was 40-50% increase in past reports, but the CEO is quoted that they expect 50% increase: "We expect revenue to grow more than 50 per cent this year and counter-terrorism growth is a material percentage of that, driven by two major things: the increase in counter-terrorism software and in cyber-threat software."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11546075

So overall I think its a good space to be in and they are really proving themselves. If anything the recent Paris events are a wake up call to everyone that no one is safe and that everyone needs to catch up with the latest tech to combat these problems. Did you know 72 hours prior to the attacks there were twitter post by ISIS related accounts and yet the French never picked up on it, imagine if they were using tech that could relate what these accounts were posting to existing data and come up with possible threats? I am not against being sceptical about Wynyard because they are still quite new, but they seem to be proving themselves in an industry that just got a wake up call how important they are.

[Tsuba]

Well said.

[Tsuba]

A Wynyard add came up on this You Tube clip. They are everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-71e8lg64&google_comment_id=z135jbabxwryxzuon04cgxryhqrxjv2y r5o&google_view_type#gpluscomments

[BlackPeter]

A Wynyard add came up on this You Tube clip. They are everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-71e8lg64&google_comment_id=z135jbabxwryxzuon04cgxryhqrxjv2y r5o&google_view_type#gpluscomments

ramping viewer points for Guinea fowl?

[Harvey Specter]

A Wynyard add came up on this You Tube clip. They are everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-71e8lg64&google_comment_id=z135jbabxwryxzuon04cgxryhqrxjv2y r5o&google_view_type#gpluscomments


ramping viewer points for Guinea fowl?Youtube is Google owned so all it means is they have tracked your browser history and noticed you doing research on WYN, so targeted an ad at you.

[Tsuba]

Well that Video is making me money so we are all winners A what. ;)

[pedro1]

http://www.wilmingtonbiz.com/achievers_and_accolades/2015/11/24/tilley_named_sales_director_for_software_group/14085

[Tsuba]

Saudi Contract

http://news.sys-con.com/node/3573700

[Baa_Baa]

Saudi Contract

http://news.sys-con.com/node/3573700

The good news continues, it's hard to believe that WYN was sold off so much and is still lagging well behind some serious sophisticated investors buy-in prices. Well done anyone who bought the lows.

[fiasco]

Noticed an increase in volume today, various trades at 1.80?

[Everwood]

Noticed an increase in volume today, various trades at 1.80?

I have recently become a shareholder in Wynyard, so I hope $1.80 holds up around this price range. My entry point is several cents below the $1.80 price. I don't expect much movement in the price until the special meeting on 11th of December.

[Ggcc]

Welcome aboard Everwood. Get yourself fastened for an interesting ride. Hopefully north haha. It seems a great company and is getting interest from different institutions willing to pay $2 per share (for now)! I am in for the long run on this one, unless it hits $40+ per share ala Xero within a couple of years (highly unlikely). I may just retire if it did though 😊...... Again highly unlikely!!!

[Ggcc]

A positive end to the week. The price held up well. Bring on next week hopefully with some great announcements.

[fiasco]

Anyone aware of webcast/audio details for tomorrow?

[Leftfield]

11 December 2015, Auckland - Wynyard Group (NZX:WYN) announces that the resolution put to its special meeting of shareholders in Auckland today was passed.
The vote approves the issue of up to 15 million ordinary shares over the next 12 months at a minimum issue price of $2.00 per share. This would raise $30 million if all shares were issued at the minimum price.

[Everwood]

I’m disappointed they are deferring any decision regarding a dual listing on the ASX until the New Year

[blobbles]

I’m disappointed they are deferring any decision regarding a dual listing on the ASX until the New Year

Did they state why? If they are getting interested offers from high net worth Americans, could it be to list on the NASDAQ instead? Anyone ask that question?

[BlackPeter]

I’m disappointed they are deferring any decision regarding a dual listing on the ASX until the New Year

Why? Can't remember too many companies who benefitted over the last couple of years from an ASX listing. Might be not the best time to list into a bear market.

[dumbfounded]

Did they state why? If they are getting interested offers from high net worth Americans, could it be to list on the NASDAQ instead? Anyone ask that question?

I thought it was clearly stated in the announcement: "Recent amendments to the ASX listing rules provide a cost effective route to dual listing. However, Australian law is likely to restrict investors from trading shares issued in the three months following listing on the ASX. This will conflict with Wynyard’s capital raise plans.". Or, were you looking for the reasons behind the one stated?

[moimoi]

I thought it was clearly stated in the announcement: "Recent amendments to the ASX listing rules provide a cost effective route to dual listing. However, Australian law is likely to restrict investors from trading shares issued in the three months following listing on the ASX. This will conflict with Wynyard’s capital raise plans.". Or, were you looking for the reasons behind the one stated?

So Aussie Institutional investors couldn't be relied upon to hold onto shares in the forthcoming capital raising for 3 months following a potential Aussie listing..

Perhaps then the company should avoid the dilutionary capital raising and offer some other instrument such as a convertible bond paying 6.5% p.a.?? to supportive existing shareholders. Some of whom may even be able to endure a longer time horizon than 3 months. ;-)

Set a record date for eligibilty to subscribe at a date in the future and lets see some buying on market for those that actually want to be involved in an evolving story.

[moimoi]

I thought it was clearly stated in the announcement: "Recent amendments to the ASX listing rules provide a cost effective route to dual listing. However, Australian law is likely to restrict investors from trading shares issued in the three months following listing on the ASX. This will conflict with Wynyard’s capital raise plans.". Or, were you looking for the reasons behind the one stated?

So Aussie Institutional investors couldn't be relied upon to hold onto shares in the forthcoming capital raising for 3 months following a potential Aussie listing..

Perhaps then the company should avoid the dilutionary capital raising and offer some other instrument such as a convertible bond paying 6.5% p.a.?? to supportive existing shareholders. Some of whom may even be able to endure a longer time horizon than 3 months. ;-)

Set a record date for eligibilty to subscribe at a date in the future and lets see some buying on market for those that actually want to be involved in an evolving story.

[bmrm]

So Aussie Institutional investors couldn't be relied upon to hold onto shares in the forthcoming capital raising for 3 months following a potential Aussie listing..

Perhaps then the company should avoid the dilutionary capital raising and offer some other instrument such as a convertible bond paying 6.5% p.a.?? to supportive existing shareholders. Some of whom may even be able to endure a longer time horizon than 3 months. ;-)

Set a record date for eligibilty to subscribe at a date in the future and lets see some buying on market for those that actually want to be involved in an evolving story.

More likely it is just the regulatory burden, compliance and legal costs associated with administering it. Very hard to negotiate with interested parties while also organising a listing as you need to worry about keeping things aligned, deal with investor expectations etc.

The day WYN issues bonds is the day I'll get out, given it can raise cash so cheaply from equity investors.

[Tsuba]

Another switched on cookie joins the team

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/us/news-events-blog/veteran-law-enforcement-technology-professional-joins-wynyard-group/

[Trigger]

Another switched on cookie joins the team

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/us/news-events-blog/veteran-law-enforcement-technology-professional-joins-wynyard-group/

Good find thanks Tsuba.

[Ggcc]

https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/275941

[Onion]

https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/275941

"$27.0 million over the initial three years" - but no indication of what part of that is for Wynyard's software and what part goes to the partner.

[mayday]

"$27.0 million over the initial three years" - but no indication of what part of that is for Wynyard's software and what part goes to the partner.

I presume the partner means Motorola Solutions, thus the end user is likely to be in US.

[blobbles]

Another huge win for them, this year is going to be a cracker for WYN methinks. They sure have got off to a great start! I assume this means 27m is WYNs share of the contract value?

"The software solution will be implemented with the systems integration partner and has a total contract value of $27.0 million over the initial three years. The agreement is conditional on the partner confirming it has completed specific commercial agreements with the end user. "

Does this not mean Motorola has to finish their bit (hardware) in order for WYN to install there 9m per year software? That's how I interpreted the first time I read it...

[Hectorplains]

Another huge win for them, this year is going to be a cracker for WYN methinks. They sure have got off to a great start! I assume this means 27m is WYNs share of the contract value?

"The software solution will be implemented with the systems integration partner and has a total contract value of $27.0 million over the initial three years. The agreement is conditional on the partner confirming it has completed specific commercial agreements with the end user. "



Does this not mean Motorola has to finish their bit (hardware) in order for WYN to install there 9m per year software? That's how I interpreted the first time I read it...

If you read the paragraph before, it says "it has entered into an agreement with a partner " and that the "total contract value" is $27m. That more likely means that the 27m will be shared by the partnership. It doesn't quantify how that split will work. It's a poorly worded announcement. Not a first for Wynyard.

[Baa_Baa]

"Partner" is common IT company speak for the Reseller company that found the lead and is closing the deal. WYN will be the supplier of the software and services to the reseller, so effectively wholesale rates to the reseller (whatever those rates and fees are, but they won't be retail rates).

The announcement also says that the contract is conditional, the partner (reseller) has not completed commercial agreements with the end-user (buyer). It seems premature to announce a contract that is not commercially completed, but perhaps that is an indication of their confidence that the deal will go through. Also a bit disingenuous to quote the whole contract value in a price sensitive announcement without being clear about the actual revenue to WYN.

Jmo, that's my take on it.

[Onion]

Also a bit disingenuous to quote the whole contract value in a price sensitive announcement without being clear about the actual revenue to WYN.

Whatever the accuracy and ingenuity, the SP has moved up 10c!

[mayday]

I presume the partner means Motorola Solutions, thus the end user is likely to be in US.

My assumption looks wrong, "signed off by Wynyard London office" it is said here
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/wynyard-group-inks-27m-deal-security-agency-ck-183418

[Tsuba]

Another feather in the cap....

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/us/news-events-blog/wynyard-group-awarded-gsa-schedule-70-listing/

[mayday]

Another feather in the cap....

https://www.wynyardgroup.com/us/news-events-blog/wynyard-group-awarded-gsa-schedule-70-listing/

Thanks Tsuba, wondering why it was not announced by the company, a big achievement for Wynyard anyway

[mayday]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76164327/wynyard-group-to-help-fight-corruption-in-thai-government

[Ginger_steps_]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76164327/wynyard-group-to-help-fight-corruption-in-thai-government

Love the upsells - congrats Wynyard. Its been what 2 years with the Thai Government, now using 3 (?) Wynyard products. A great show of the product suite's value.

[Ggcc]

Any guesses if they will reach target on 40-45 million turnover. Plus If they have what would it do to the share price if turnover has increased 50%-70%+?????? Guess we have to wait till Friday I am guessing. Until then I am holding and happy with this share. I am guessing 41 million just saying, all riding on that conditional contract

[BlackPeter]

Any guesses if they will reach target on 40-45 million turnover. Plus If they have what would it do to the share price if turnover has increased 50%-70%+?????? Guess we have to wait till Friday I am guessing. Until then I am holding and happy with this share. I am guessing 41 million just saying, all riding on that conditional contract

I guess if they exceed expectations, than this is likely to increase the SP, and if they don't, than it is not.

Defining however what the share is worth is difficult. No matter how much they crank up their revenue (and the ramp up speed so far was not stellar) - as long as they write losses year after year is the share worth what speculators want to pay for it. Similar to paintings or old stamps ...

[lastmoa]

.. and that is why you have to do your research to.understand the IT space WYN is in and get a grasp of the potential. Not all about numbers albeit want to see uptake, which I do see incrementally happening.
Otberwise, yes, people are beat to invest in Spark, Z, or stamps and coins.

[blobbles]

Should be valuable experience for the CE:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76310754/wynyard-group-chief-executive-craig-richardson-advises-nzdf

[blobbles]

Hey, weren't we supposed to have an annual report by now?? Or did I get my months wrong??

[BlackPeter]

Hey, weren't we supposed to have an annual report by now?? Or did I get my months wrong??

Full year results end of February, Annual report end of March. You are a bit ahead of your time ...;)

[blobbles]

Full year results end of February, Annual report end of March. You are a bit ahead of your time ...;)

Ahhh yes, wrong month, living in the future, thanks!

[blobbles]

WYN keeps stacking up the runs on the board... https://www.nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/277419

Possibly a beach head gained here and new market opening up?

[moimoi]

For a supposed growth company in a growth "industry" the runs aren't stacking up very quickly though are they...

Looking a bit like test players at the crease but with a 20/20 market cap.

In the space of 2 months the cap raising @ a minimum of $2 a share has miraged into a cap raise at some unknown lesser figure.

A poor result imo and the market looks to have responded accordingly.

[Ggcc]

I agree moimoi! I love the fundamentals of this company, but management need to understand what we get in this capital raise, will it benefit shareholders?

[moka]

Shareholders Association warns Wynyard motion would give company 'carte blanche'
"Software company Wynyard's latest effort to raise extra capital has run into opposition from the Shareholders Association.
Hawkins doubted the Shareholders Association's opposition alone would derail the vote, which is due to be held next Thursday, saying institutional shareholders had "their own drivers".
"Our concern is all about fairness. Regardless of whether or not we affect the vote, we want to raise the issue. We don't want companies going down this path – there are better ways of doing it," he said."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76800096/shareholders-association-warns-wynyard-motion-would-give-company-carte-blanche

[Everwood]

Could someone please give me a brief outline what this article says on the NBR. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/did-wynyard-undershoot-its-capital-raising-target-jw-p-184800

[BlackPeter]

Could someone please give me a brief outline what this article says on the NBR. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/did-wynyard-undershoot-its-capital-raising-target-jw-p-184800

In a nutshell:

They report on the history of the recent capital rising attempts (all well known) and quote "independent corporate finance analyst Sam Stewart, formally of KPMG" that the planned fund rising exercise of $30 million might be insufficient for the companies needs. He believes that they will need at least 45 to 60 million dollars for the next 18 months given their current cash burn of something like $4 million per month).

They indicate as well that a number of share holders are annoyed that the planned CR for $2 per share is now turning into a highly dilutive exercise.

[winner69]

That Sam Stewart mentioned has interesting chart (includes the Wynard $40m to $60m)


@samstewartnz: Estimated capital requirements NZX companies expected to raise capital this year: https://t.co/Tc5VkfnrpY

[BlackPeter]

That Sam Stewart mentioned has interesting chart (includes the Wynard $40m to $60m)


@samstewartnz: Estimated capital requirements NZX companies expected to raise capital this year: https://t.co/Tc5VkfnrpY

Interesting chart of nearly (or is it all?) of our so called "growth" companies. It certainly shows how their capital needs keep growing and blossoming ;).

[Baa_Baa]

Interesting chart of nearly (or is it all?) of our so called "growth" companies. It certainly shows how their capital needs keep growing and blossoming ;).

It is interesting until you read the fine print:

"... analysis is not adjusted for forecast revenue growth or anticipated burn rate" which imo makes the data pretty much worthless,

and in his own words (tweet) "What listed NZX companies will need to raise capital this year?" ... it's a question, implying that even he is uncertain of the validity.

Pretty charts though shame about the analysis, imo.

[Everwood]

In a nutshell:

They report on the history of the recent capital rising attempts (all well known) and quote "independent corporate finance analyst Sam Stewart, formally of KPMG" that the planned fund rising exercise of $30 million might be insufficient for the companies needs. He believes that they will need at least 45 to 60 million dollars for the next 18 months given their current cash burn of something like $4 million per month).

They indicate as well that a number of share holders are annoyed that the planned CR for $2 per share is now turning into a highly dilutive exercise.

I really appreciate you taking the time to outline the article.

[BlackPeter]

It is interesting until you read the fine print:

"... analysis is not adjusted for forecast revenue growth or anticipated burn rate" which imo makes the data pretty much worthless,

and in his own words (tweet) "What listed NZX companies will need to raise capital this year?" ... it's a question, implying that even he is uncertain of the validity.

Pretty charts though shame about the analysis, imo.

That's a bit harsh - isn't it? I think the assumption that parameters (here - cash burn) stay in the year to come as they have been is a legitimate starting position for any analysis. Sure - in reality things always change. Sometimes they improve and often they deteriorate - i.e. anybody's best guess how many of these companies need regularly fresh money (and how much).

Still think that a graph like that should be attached to every IPO document of another startup. Many investors realise only too late that their initial IPO cash injection is often just the start of a long series of cash injections ... without guarantee of positive returns.

If we look back at WYN - they don't say when they "plan" to be cash positive ... and the analyst assumptions I have seen put this date for WYN further than 3 years into the future (or is it never-never?). This means that they will need at least another couple of CR's after this one before they can stand on their own feet.

And fair enough - you need to spend money before you make money, but I still think they could make this "need" a bit more visible to potential investors. Always better if people commit open eyed.

[winner69]

It is interesting until you read the fine print:

"... analysis is not adjusted for forecast revenue growth or anticipated burn rate" which imo makes the data pretty much worthless,

and in his own words (tweet) "What listed NZX companies will need to raise capital this year?" ... it's a question, implying that even he is uncertain of the validity.

Pretty charts though shame about the analysis, imo.

The full Note is quite clear how its calculated and yes it does have that bit you quoted.

So a good snapshot in time and indicative of what might happen (hence the ?)

Forecasts probably would change amounts / time frame but jeez they only forecasts and we know what they are like.

Don't be so miserable Baabaa - the worlds not that perfect

[Baa_Baa]

That's a bit harsh - isn't it? I think the assumption that parameters (here - cash burn) stay in the year to come as they have been is a legitimate starting position for any analysis. Sure - in reality things always change. Sometimes they improve and often they deteriorate - i.e. anybody's best guess how many of these companies need regularly fresh money (and how much). [... snip]

Sure, if you think it's harsh that your prerogative, however imo the Note does say "not adjusted for forecast revenue growth or anticipated burn rate" which would have been easy to incorporate and provide a more thorough analysis. Maybe he left it out because he didn't have forecasts or anticipated for all of the companies. Without that additional data, the chart has little value except to say that the companies are likely, 'at some time' to require capital raising.

[biker]

WYN: Trading Halt of Securities
9:50am, 17 Feb 2016 | HALT
Memorandum

To: Market Participants
From: NZX Client and Market Services
Date: 17 February 2016
Subject: Wynyard Group Limited (“WYN”) - Trading Halt of Securities

Message:

NZX Regulation (“NZXR”) advises that, at the request of the company, it has placed a trading halt on Wynyard Group Limited ordinary shares (“WYN”). The trading halt was placed at pre market open this morning.

The trading halt has been put in place pending the release of an announcement to be made by the company.

Please contact Client and Market Services on +64 4 496 2853 or cms@nzx.com with any queries.

ENDS

Attachments

[Everwood]

I was hoping for small increase this morning and I was seriously considering selling my shares, even though I would have taken a lost. I would have lost about 12% in value at yesterday closing price. Hopefully the news is promising, even though I'm doubtful about any positive announcements after the halt is lifted.

[Ginger_steps_]

So thought on the halt?? Capital raised at market price perhaps? We did see a hefty rise the last 2 days - so maybe 'leaky ship' - or more likely just the rally of global markets.

[blobbles]

Cancelled the special meeting because overseas parties no longer interested at $2 placement.

Very good in my books. Looks like the mysterious overseas investors wanted in for too cheap. Now WYN needs to refocus to do it on their own. As I think they are perfectly capable of this, I consider this a big WYN. No dilution and no distractions. Now go forth and grow like anything!

[moimoi]

Perhaps the proxies received were overwhelmingly against the resolution hence the cancellation of the meeting.

You have to wonder how a placement offer of $2+ can evaporate so quickly. Wasn't a fax message regarding assistance with an inheritance from Nigeria was it... ;-)

A rights issue needs to be made attractive to existing holders with a free attaching option or something..The 2 year share price performance hasn't been much fun for existing holders thats for sure..

[Harvey Specter]

Unlikely a rights issue will raise $30m either? My guess is they will raise a bit then try again later in the year.

[blobbles]

What's happening with this new announcement WYN? What will it be? Any clues?

[trackers]

So the last figures I can see shows the burn rate at $17mil per half, and they had $42mil as at end of June 2015, is that right?

[Everwood]

Wynyard has requested an extension of its trading halt and continues to work with advisors on its capital raise process. The company expects to be in a position to make an announcement on 23 February 2016 and will remain in a trading halt until it makes this announcement https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/277949

[winner69]

Wynyard has requested an extension of its trading halt and continues to work with advisors on its capital raise process. The company expects to be in a position to make an announcement on 23 February 2016 and will remain in a trading halt until it makes this announcement https://nzx.com/companies/WYN/announcements/277949

Do you think this is not going to be that favourable for small shareholders?

[Everwood]

Do you think this is not going to be that favourable for small shareholders?

I'm hoping it will be favourable for small shareholders, with the delay until Tuesday and the shareholders association getting involved in the discussion, I'm more likely to believe it could be good for small shareholders. I’m waiting for the announcement on Tuesday before deciding to hold or sell.

[Harvey Specter]

Do you think this is not going to be that favourable for small shareholders?I'm guessing deeply discounted rights so good for shareholders - if yo have cash to pay up. NO doubt they are gauging interest from existing large shareholders.

[Baa_Baa]

I'm guessing deeply discounted rights so good for shareholders - if yo have cash to pay up. NO doubt they are gauging interest from existing large shareholders.

That's a big come down from a $2 placement for $30m. Are these guys in trouble, apart from with the shareholders assn?

[moimoi]

In the previous year, the full year financial results were announced to market on the 25th of Feb. They are intending to announce a capital raising once out of this trading halt on the 23rd which is 2 days prior to the the date that last years results came out.

Why not wait till after the results announcement?

It suggests the assessment of " the advisers" is that the financial results aren't great and potentially won't lead to share price appreciation and hence an ability to cap raise at a higher figure.

Nothing here but further dilution for non related shareholders....