42 Below - Beyond the IPO...

[Winnie Burgers]

I'm very tempted to flick my FTB shares & invest in SEA on the ASX.
Within the last 3 days it's gone up just shy of 18%!! That's after a report that they've abandoned a hole they've been drilling for the last 15 odd days?!!

Tell me I'm stupid and should be beaten about the head with a rubber chicken if you think this is an unwise move ...

[marinesalvor]

invest in both WB

[marinesalvor]

or sell on an 18% profit and go into FTB with more

[Winnie Burgers]

Slight problem with your 2nd comment MS - I only gambled 500 A$'s on this, so taking brokerage into account, I've only made a whopping $32 [:I] [8D]

[marinesalvor]

fair enough Winnie

[Sunshine007]

It amazes me how much interest is shown toward FTB here. And that, I think, explains FTB's ridiculous share price: at current share price the market capitalization is $82m. The company made sales of $12.2m giving it a price/sales ratio of 6.72.
On every $1 of sales FTB is making a loss and yet it talked about gross margins. What margin is that? FTB believers will have to wait for a long long time before they can actually see FTB turns in a profit (hopefully by which time the morning after hangover is gone). Happy investing.

[Sunshine007]

No problem with trading though.

[KJ]

Sunshine-it may be that you do not understand where this coy is,in its developement,with your comments about earnings etc.

Punters are buying into the future potential of the coy-the real value lies in the intangibles such as brands and the skills of the management.Anyone investing in a coy in the early stage of its developement knows this and will focus on the potential and not the current financials.

Brands become assets of tremendous value-it creates loyalty to a product and a premium price.Of course this is an investment with risks attached-no one would deny this.

What value would you currently place on the FTB brand currently?

[R2]

Interesting to note that the latest trend is to drink Vodka & water, but, according to my 18 year old daughter the water is important.

Think they are onto a winner with this one; who's going to ask for an Absolut with 42BL water ?

Vodka is as generic as a Labour party back bencher, I'd estimate brand value at $10-25M currently. Any other guesses ?

[The Doctor]

building a brand takes more than a year!

[KJ]

The Dr-No one would disagree with that.

[TGT05]

Could someone please explain this company to me. Are they the actuall manufacturers of the vodka or only own the rights to it??? What about the gin, water etc???

[CJ]

They own the brand and the recipe. I am not sure if they still manufacture it or outsource but they own the important part.

[blackcap]

They outsource the manufacturing of the product. So really they are distributors and brand owners.

[Placebo]

Saw a promo on one of the current affairs shows for next week's show. Think maybe it was TVNZ's `Sunday'. Anyways. They are doing an item on 42B offending the New York queer fraternity with their email campaign. Was aired on here earlier.

Should make interesting with lots of outrage on show... and of course lots of coverage of 42B

[Gryffyn]

amaxing how much mielage they get out of it really. Listener did it weeks ago and now a tv follow up...

[Bobby_Fischer]

Latest internet page count rankings for 42 Below (as discussed previously on page 28). FTB up 2 places in "US" since 08/04/05 (doubt it's statistically significant, but why let that get in the way of a good story?). NB have found the Google data on which these tables are based somewhat volatile.

<pre id="code">
Table 1 (.com only - "US")

Rank Prev. Rank Change Brand Pages Prev. Pages
1 1 Absolut 33100 29400
2 3 +1 Vampire 20800 14000
3 2 -1 Smirnoff 19100 14200
4 5 +1 Grey Goose 12300 7510
5 7 +2 Stolichnaya 8630 4340
6 4 -2 Skyy 7470 7990
7 8 +1 Belvedere 7420 3710
8 13 +5 Finlandia 4930 780
9 6 -3 Ketel One 4860 6600
10 14 +4 Red Army 3650 710
11 9 -2 Black Death 881 1070
12 12 Boru 769 813
13 15 +2 42 Below 757 642
14 10 -4 Three Olives 725 1040
15 11 -4 Cristall 606 851
16 17 +1 Blavod 550 500
17 16 -1 Redd 542 517
18 18 Turi 472 496
19 19 Jewel of Russia 381 183
20 21 +1 Van Ho 34 6
21 20 -1 Tovtry 10 16


Table 2 (.co.uk only - UK)
Rank Prev. Rank Change Brand Pages Prev. Pages

1 2 +1 Grey Goose 6620 6400
2 1 -1 Smirnoff 5750 6700
3 3 Absolut 5060 4530
4 4 Cristall 900 1220
5 5 Stolichnaya 527 587
6 7 +1 Skyy 429 460
7 6 -1 Vampire 410 471
8 8 42 Below 355 436
9 10 +1 Finlandia 321 321
10 9 -1 Belvedere 314 376
11 12 +1 Blavod 221 274
12 11 -1 Boru 188 283
13 13 Ketel One 161 195
14 14 Red Army 122 162
15 15 Black Death 112 119
16 17 +1 Redd 25 17
17 16 -1 Turi 14 17
18 18 Three Olives 4 14
19 19 Jewel of Russia 3 5
20 20 Van Ho 0 1
21 21 Tovtry 0 0
</pre id="code">

[Winnie Burgers]

F.A trading yesterday and so far today ... who put the brakes on [?][?]

[Bling_Bling]

Noticed a rap artist on channel 4 holding up a bottle of Below 42. Only saw it cos my son was watching channel 4 with his kid.

[Snow Leopard]

yeah right granddad

[Winnie Burgers]

I've just flicked my 10K shares for a 23% loss. :(
Investing in SEA & BQT on the ASX.
Wish me luck - I need it!! :)

[Snow Leopard]

Careful research, a definite trading plan and discipline to stick to it is what you need, WB.

[marinesalvor]

good luck to you Winnie - enjoy the ASX

[spector]

Yeah good luck bro... I think I might have picked up your shares... I promise to look after them for you and treat them nice.

[Winnie Burgers]

Yeah it would've been you spector - just b4 5pm aye?

I'll be back sooner or later - i'm just gonna get my money back (from the ASX) i've lost on this stock. Once that's sorted I'll be back to get another 10K FTB again.

Until then ... :)

[marinesalvor]

Thanks winnie- your exit has pushed the price up!

[Winnie Burgers]

I have no doubt i'm cursed. Evertime I sell, the share price shoots up!!
Maybe I could sell my services to anyone out there?? U tell me when to sell and you pay me a small percentage of your gain?? :D

[Placebo]

Winnie you confuse me. You say you intend buying back in, so clearly you think FTB is worth having. So why sell? And at a loss?[?][?]

[spector]

Nice show on 42 on 'SUNDAY'.

[Caesius]

Sure was. Did I hear correctly that Dale's letter was a planned marketing stunt?

[Winnie Burgers]

I confuse myself Placebo. :)

You ask why I sell & at a loss - The answer is impatience.
My impatience will either hurt me or reward me. (Hopefully the latter).
The more I think about it, I'm gambling on the stockmarket more than investing ...

I'm definitely a supporter of FTB, it's just I see a faster way of retrieving my loss right now.

It'll be interesting to see if the SUNDAY segment last night will do anything to the SP today.

[TGT05]

Does the blatant arrogance of the man make anyone else a bit uncomfortable and could eventually impact negatively on the company??

[Winston001]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

Does the blatant arrogance of the man make anyone else a bit uncomfortable and could eventually impact negatively on the company??


Good point. I don't hold FTB because I am uncomfortable with the hype surrounding it. But the same could be said for PPL which seems to have justified its support.

I didn't like the guy. So what. Maybe his brash approach is required in the US market and underneath it he is a canny businessman. I don't like Bob Jones either but I agree with some of his views and acknowledge that he is an intelligent complex man.

FTB's non politically correct advertising is refreshing and clever. Enough to wipe out a $5 million loss? Brands are fickle things. Anyone remember the Tamaguchi toy? Lasted world-wide for about a year then.................. [V]

[trendy]

From stuff site: Prohibition hangs over export sales to USA.
I haven't seen any 42FTB vodka in the local package stores I frequent herein the Northeast.

13.06.05
By Rachel Morris

When Ruud Maasdam and Dorien Vermaas decided to export wine from their small Marlborough vineyard to the United States, they thought their chances were pretty good.

After careers with tech giants Oracle and Apple, the husband-and-wife team understood how Americans did business. In 2000, New Zealand wine exports to the US were climbing. And their winery, Staete Landt, boasted a stellar rating from a prestigious wine magazine.

Five years later, they are struggling just to put their wine in places where a customer might see it.

Demand for New Zealand wine is higher than ever before in the US. Yet the country's arcane maze of alcohol laws means many New Zealand wineries find that their biggest challenge is getting onto liquor store shelves.

"A lot of people look at the growth of the US market, and say, can't I just sell my wine?" said Rory Callahan, president of Wine and Food Associates, a market development firm. "But the barriers to entry are incredible."

Although most Americans see wine as just another commodity, its sale is still governed by a three-tier system introduced when Prohibition ended in 1933, said Matthew Botting, a California-based alcohol and beverage lawyer.

Shaped by the moral concerns of the temperance movement, this system required distributors to act as middlemen between producers and retailers, Botting said.

But over the past 40 years, mergers have reduced the number of distributors from 11,000 to 500, meaning that two or three wholesalers per state determine which wines reach stores and restaurants, according to the Coalition for Free Trade, a wine industry group.

"This consolidation prevents about two-thirds of wine being made from reaching the consumer," Callahan said.

To complicate matters further, all 50 states write their own alcohol laws. And because most New Zealand wineries do not produce enough to supply a national importer, they must build relationships with importers and distributors state by state, said David Strada, New Zealand Winegrowers' US representative.

Maasdam and Vermaas plan to export a third of Staete Landt's wine to the US. Despite their small size, they found a national importer in five months. But the importer broke the contract, Maasdam said, leaving 10 per cent of the vintage sitting in a warehouse.

After that, the couple went local, but it wasn't easy to locate suitable partners. They found companies that seemed ideal, only to see their wine knocked off distributors' lists after more mergers.

Despite numerous promotional visits, they still only sell in a handful of states. Their goal is 10.

With the weak US dollar eroding profit margins for New Zealand wineries by up to 30 per cent, the couple was "constantly rethinking whether it's feasible for a small company to sell in the US". But larger companies must also fight to hold distributors' attention.

Villa Maria entered the US through a national importer in the late 1990s. Its US sales and marketing manager, Stuart Devine, spends 40 weeks a year travelling to maintain Villa Maria's profile with wholesalers and buyers.

The three-tier system means that instead of competing with American or other foreign brands in retail outlets, New Zealand wines are battling each other for representation by an importer or wholesaler, said representatives from several wineries.

Consequently, the New Zealand industry is closely monitoring a Supreme Court decision that could be the "first manifestation of cracks in the three-tier system," said Callahan.

The decision, issued last month, is expected to increase opportunities for American wineries to ship straight to customers in different states.

This would not immediately affect foreign firms, but the legal ruling "goes far beyond wineries", said Matthew Botting. He said the decision could influence attempts by retailers to bypass distri

[TGT05]

I agree that the politically incorrect advertising is an effective and original approach but I can all to easily imagine if and when FTB does become a larger profitable company a man like him could take it too far as arguably he nearly did and result in hurting the brand far more than helping it.

[spector]

TGT05, what I saw was
1. A company that got into the "most read gossip magazine in America"
2. A company that TVNZ flew overseas to do an article about.
3. A company that did an almost free stunt that "got 42 Below on the lips of all New Yorkers"
4. A company that American Liquor Marketing experts were praising for their "fresh, innovative marketing"
5. A company that is the house pour in the top New York bars where only celebrities go.
6. A company whose stunt has "increased sales"

As a shareholder I don't care what 42 do as long as they keep on doing it. I thought the whole thing was fantastic.

[Placebo]

I liked the line "we didn't have much money, so we had to think". It's a small company making a big noise. In marketing, machiavellian approaches are justifiable.

Even the bar that started the whole thing is playing alone. It's created a cocktail called "42 Above". Even that is recognition.

Brilliant stuff. More power to the man.

James Dale. Remember the name.

[TGT05]

I did aswell, all I'm saying is continued acts of arrogance (if thats what it was) I think, will eventually hurt more than help.

[Placebo]

It was clearly a measured response. Dale himself said that, once they received the email from the bar owneer (the "bite" if you like), he composed the email, but it wasn't sent for some hours, during which he made several calls (including I would suspect to Geoff Ross). After this, he sent the email with the intro "dear f*ckface", and spelling mistakes. The presence of spelling mistakes indicates he wanted it to look like a knee-jerk response, when in fact it wasn't.

However, sending an offensive planned email is one thing, controlling the fallout is another, and they have managed that spectacularly well.

One thing the programme didn't get into is how much product they are actually selling, what their market share is. It did mention their $5m loss.

Perhaps we should reserve judgment on the effectiveness of the campaign until we see what effect it's had on sales...

[TGT05]

What date is their report expected to be released placebo?

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by Placebo


One thing the programme didn't get into is how much product they are actually selling, what their market share is. It did mention their $5m loss.

Perhaps we should reserve judgment on the effectiveness of the campaign until we see what effect it's had on sales...


fair call.

[Placebo]

Not sure, but their half year was in May so probably Oct-Nov some time.

[The Doctor]

apparantly FTB have another line extension planned to capture more sales ...42below 'ice'...to clubs and outlets...olives and lemon,lime wedges' are the 1st 'flavours' to be tested...this could actually be 'BIG'....I'm putting in a buy order...'clean,pure,natural NZ water...frozen!..it has to be a winner!

[marinesalvor]

poor doc - still doesnt understand branding

remember coke is just caramel sugar water

[Gryffyn]

Indeed, and plenty of imitators have created successful businessed doing exactly the same.

[spector]

with all due respect Rocking and Doc... I think I prefer the positive comments of the American Liquor Marketing people I saw on SUNDAY to the negative comments expressed by you two. Or do you profess to know more about alcohol marketing then they do? Please enlighten me with your wisdom....

[Gryffyn]

Tip for spector, don't hold your breath ;)

[The Doctor]

I'll enlighten you!Distribution in the U.S is controlled by a few companies...one NZ niche wine coy has recently explained just how hard it is to get mkt penetration.The ftb 'boys' Ross,Dale and coy are enjoying a wonderful lifestyle...lost $5.2mil in the last yr!They'll be back with more promises in the next 24mths and more calls for capital.FTB HAS NO UNIQUE SELLING PROPOSITION...and the liquor giants can squash it whenever they wish to merely by applying pressure re whole portfolio distribution.Hats off to adman Ross for 'selling' this coy so skilfully right down to the 'started in the garage...'romanticism....still all you clever investors who take no notice of fundamentals will all no doubt brag about how much you made from trading this share along the way to its removal from the board!Its even set a precedent $35mil 'goodwill'...hilarious and now Charlies is trying it on.A coy in a highly competitive mkt that unlike ftb has NO EXPORT PROSPECTS!

[Gryffyn]

Well, that's perhaps because some of us have already made money from it minder!

[spector]

The Doctor said :Distribution in America is controlled by a few big companies

Spector said: Yes, and one of those big companies distributes 42 Below.

The Doctor said :A niche wine comapany explained how hard it was to get mkt penetration

Spector said :The niche wine company explained how this was because they couldn't guarentee enough product. 42 can supply to demand on demand.

The Doctor said: FTB has no unique selling proposition.

Spector said: Well then I guess no one will buy it then. Of course their month on month growth curve seems to say differently.

The Doctor said: And the liquor giants can squash it whenever they want to.

Spector said: Like Absolut did here in New Zealand you mean? Perhaps they are waiting for 42 to control 98 percent of the market before they make their next move. You would have thought that the big American liquor brands would have wanted to stomp on the "number one growing new entrant to the American market in 2004" by now too.... maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet either.

I reakon you might want to put your personal predjudices aside on this one 'The Doctor' and look at what the company has already achieved.

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Well, that's perhaps because some of us have already made money from it minder!


I wouldn't like to think that The Doctor is Minder.... Minder made alot of pompous statements about FTB and continually insulted everyone who had bought into the share. But when FTB did everything Minder said it wouldn't he "disappeared off the forum" rather than admit that he was wrong. As my grandfather used to say "You can tell the size of a man's c ock by the size of his humility"

For Minder to come back as a different persona would make him very small indeed.... so I'll give The Doctor the benefit of the doubt.

[Dazza]

spector

so unfortunately we have inherited minder to the FTX and the NOG thread :(

he should really be banned me tinks

does he make a new alias each time he spams on a different thread?

he was SB aka BS on NOG thread..

[Gryffyn]

... and any number of incarnations before that, e.g. sniper...

[Dough Boy]

I fail to understand how such a small loss making company gets so much press in this forum. I have stayed out of it and plan to until they report a profit rather than just increased sales!

For me the figures just to do not add up:

'1m bottles' (12 x 68,586 = 823,032) ?

NTA 11.8m whilst capitalisation is 83.1m ?

Loss 5.2m ('burn rate' 2.3 years)

Number bottles sold 823,032 (i.e. $101 invested in the production and sale of 1 bottle of vodka and $6.31 lost per bottle.

How can you gain $1 of 'gross margin' on $1.80 of expediture? If you spend more than you receive, where is the 'gross margin' to be had?

More importantly sales trend:

Bottle sales up 200%

Revenue up 176% =&gt; price per bottle 88% of previous year!

Loss up from 1.1m to 5.2m =&gt; loss per bottle up 236%

More sales......for less money per bottle......... for more losses?

I think I will just wait and see where this dog is heading!

[nottiger]

quote:Originally posted by Dough Boy

..............Loss 5.2m ('burn rate' 2.3 years).........


We are a start up, with some similarities to FTB, but well behind!, and should we be fortunate to raise a marketing war chest in an IPO (well it is part of our planning) -like FTB - over valued on hype as it probably was - I would think our investors would expect and want a healthy burn rate - especialy if it used cost effective viral PR marketing and sales were growing well.

FTB did not raise the millions to have them on term deposit and grow sales by 15% per year in a measured conservative (slow) way

I think they are performing well

My spin

Cheers

[KJ]

Dough Boy

I think that your analysis is flawed.

Case sales for FY March 2005 was 68586.
1m bottles is the total since production first started -not for YE March 2005.

Not sure that you understand what "gross margin" means.

[marinesalvor]

price is 88% of previous price as it no longer includes excise in US market

Dough - why are you dividing capitalisation by number of bottles sold???

I guess you dont normaly do analysis

[The Doctor]

psssssssssst....Doughboy....must be.....MINDER...!!!!!

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by marinesalvor

price is 88% of previous price as it no longer includes excise in US market

Dough - why are you dividing capitalisation by number of bottles sold???

I guess you dont normaly do analysis


Marine Sailor,

Granted MS didn't know about this one on the exercise duty.

So if revenue per bottle is stable, however the situation is still higher revenues and greater losses.

Granted the reason for dividing capilization by bottles is not the norm but thought it may put into perspective just how much people are paying for this company, that is $101 to produce one bottle of vodka in an entire year so even if they eventually can reap $1 net profit from a bottle it represents a P.E. ratio of 101 with the current shares outstanding (of course when the warrants are exercised, to pay for the losses, the [u]possible</u> P.E. ratio will be even higher).

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by nottiger


quote:Originally posted by Dough Boy

..............Loss 5.2m ('burn rate' 2.3 years).........


We are a start up, with some similarities to FTB, but well behind!, and should we be fortunate to raise a marketing war chest in an IPO (well it is part of our planning) -like FTB - over valued on hype as it probably was - I would think our investors would expect and want a healthy burn rate - especialy if it used cost effective viral PR marketing and sales were growing well.


FTB did not raise the millions to have them on term deposit and grow sales by 15% per year in a measured conservative (slow) way

I think they are performing well

My spin

Cheers



So if am I correct to understand your reasoning, a 'heathly burn rate' is something like 2 to 3 years before all net assets are exhausted. Of course things get stickly earlier, when the cash starts to run out. In the case of FTB's cash position the burn rate is 1.3 years. So do you consider a burn rate of 1.3 years on the cash position to be healthy? Or should it be shorter or longer?

As to only a 15% sales growth, I would much prefer a company with 15% sales growth a small profit or breakeven position any day.

FTB maybe profitable one day and I may very well buy it when it's P.E. is reasonable.

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

psssssssssst....Doughboy....must be.....MINDER...!!!!!


Nope, not me, just plain old Dough Boy rolling in the flour.

[KJ]

DB-I think you are trying to "reinvent the wheel"

How do you calculate the "burn rate" of 1.3 yrs?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by KJ

DB-I think you are trying to "reinvent the wheel"

How do you calculate the "burn rate" of 1.3 yrs?


Not reinventing it, just taking a different view based on a single bottle.

Cash in hand divided by annual losses. I am sure someone will reply to my reply and totally disaggree!

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by KJ

Dough Boy

I think that your analysis is flawed.

Case sales for FY March 2005 was 68586.
1m bottles is the total since production first started -not for YE March 2005.

Not sure that you understand what "gross margin" means.


Could you please explain the 'gross margin' of this company as I must misunderstand it. Would most appreciate it.

[KJ]

DB
Cash Burn-I take it that you are implying that they will run short of cash within 1.3 yrs-have you not considered the 2005 warrants and 2006 warrants?

Reinvent the wheel-by this I meant that the issues that you now raise
(including gross margin discussion)have already been covered (probably several times)on the various FTB threads.Have a read through them.

[Bob C]

Name change: 43 Below?

Quote from the NBR online this morning "coverage of the Tainui Group turnaround and 43 Below's debut as a Kiwi corporate sponsor at the Venice Biennale."

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/default.asp

Turns out it is 42 Below:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0409/S00123.htm)

Good exposure nonetheless.

Bob C

[marinesalvor]

more in depth accurate media reporting!

[Placebo]

Interview with Dion the Dasher in today's Dom-Post, in it he is wearing a black t-shirt with `420' emblazoned on it. Nice promo Dion!

[Gryffyn]

Chick at the coffee cart I frequent had a "42 below job" t-shirt :-)

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by KJ

DB
Cash Burn-I take it that you are implying that they will run short of cash within 1.3 yrs-have you not considered the 2005 warrants and 2006 warrants?

Reinvent the wheel-by this I meant that the issues that you now raise
(including gross margin discussion)have already been covered (probably several times)on the various FTB threads.Have a read through them.


No did not consider the fact for calculating the cash burn rate of 1.3 years as was showing that the company is basically burning all of it's [u]current cash in hand </u>in a period of 1.3 years.

However consider this that in the past financial year the following additional capital injections were required:

Private Placement 6.000m @ 52cents
Series 1 (early exercise) 2.310m @ 50cents
Series 2 (early exercise) 0.569m @ 50cents

So $4.560m of previously unplanned additional capital was added to the company's cash position during the past financial year to give a final cash holding of $7.000m. So with this additional injection of capital the cash position would have been $2.44m. Consider this if they were not able to gain this new additional capital the 'current cash burn rate at 31 March 05' would be 2.4/5.2 = 0.46 years (5 months - 2 weeks). And at 30 Sept 05 before the exercise of the Series 1 Warrants the cash position may have been $2.44m - $2.60m = -$0.16m. Would that have been an acceptable financial position? Also would it be resonable to consider that the management are in control of the losses with this start-up or are the losses larger than predicted and they were unable to predict and curtail the losses? Something to ponder.

[Placebo]

Dough Boy, all very well but you seem to forget sales, which are considerable. Also, according to the company's last stock market statement, It is profitable or near-profitable in 3 out of 4 markets. Currently it is putting more resources into cracking the US market, this is where your "cash burn" is currently occurring; clearly the risks are high, but the rewards are potentially higher.

I am a holder, and of course I hope they crack it. I am not concerned at current performance. IMHO a loss would only be a cause for concern if the company was clearly failing. This is a loss caused by large investment needed by a start-up to gain exposure/presence in a large market. I believe they will recoup these losses, with knobs on, in future years.

I will be converting my 2005 warrants.

[KJ]

DB-very negative and you do not appear to understand the information in the market place about FTB.

Cash Burn-Now I think that you have the "cart before the horse"-credit the management with some skill.They wished to speed up their expansion in the USA so they secured the funding and did it.

If they had not secured the funding first they wpould not have spent the cash so all your talk about cash burn being 0.46 yrs is nonsense.Surely you must see this?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Placebo

Dough Boy, all very well but you seem to forget sales, which are considerable. Also, according to the company's last stock market statement, It is profitable or near-profitable in 3 out of 4 markets. Currently it is putting more resources into cracking the US market, this is where your "cash burn" is currently occurring; clearly the risks are high, but the rewards are potentially higher.

I am a holder, and of course I hope they crack it. I am not concerned at current performance. IMHO a loss would only be a cause for concern if the company was clearly failing. This is a loss caused by large investment needed by a start-up to gain exposure/presence in a large market. I believe they will recoup these losses, with knobs on, in future years.

I will be converting my 2005 warrants.


I am certainly not saying that FTB will never be profitable but as you stated they are risky and are currently fighting for a market and building a brand name. Just at the moment though I don't see a sufficant 'margin of safety' in this investment with its very high losses to revenue and the need for additional capital injections. Also must remember that the cash being expended to develop the brand in the market will remain a permanent and significant cost for the life of the company.

[KJ]

DoughBoy-no one is telling you to buy-if you have bothered to read the numerous posts you will see that there is no argument that this is a high risk investment.Clearly it is not for you.That's fine.

[Placebo]

quote:the cash being expended to develop the brand in the market will remain a permanent and significant cost for the life of the company.

Hmmm, well is it a cost, or an investment? That depends on your point of view I suppose.

As others have said, it has its risks -- all investments do. It's up to you to make your own decision based on an analysis of the risks and benefits.

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Placebo


quote:the cash being expended to develop the brand in the market will remain a permanent and significant cost for the life of the company.

Hmmm, well is it a cost, or an investment? That depends on your point of view I suppose.

As others have said, it has its risks -- all investments do. It's up to you to make your own decision based on an analysis of the risks and benefits.


'My point of view' if it costs money and is required to be expended on an annual basis it is a recurring cost.

Of course maybe able to sell the name 42B, then that is the investment worth of the marketing and the remainder of the marketing expediture being a cost.

[nottiger]

quote:Originally posted by Dough Boy

As to only a 15% sales growth, I would much prefer a company with 15% sales growth a small profit or breakeven position any day.

FTB maybe profitable one day and I may very well buy it when it's P.E. is reasonable.


Hi DB

Just wondering - What would you say the reason for raising the cash in the IPO was? - If you were Geoff Ross et al would you leave it in the bank and spend it slowly?

Cheers NT

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by nottiger


quote:Originally posted by Dough Boy

As to only a 15% sales growth, I would much prefer a company with 15% sales growth a small profit or breakeven position any day.

FTB maybe profitable one day and I may very well buy it when it's P.E. is reasonable.


Hi DB

Just wondering - What would you say the reason for raising the cash in the IPO was? - If you were Geoff Ross et al would you leave it in the bank and spend it slowly?

Cheers NT


I would spend it to * increase sales so the market continues to believe that the company is progressing, so the share price stays well above NTA, so I keep my job and get paid, so that I could make more private equity placements or issue more warrants to replace the money lost and increase the NTA, so that I could do more marketing to increase sales, so... go back to *

If you don't mind would like to know what you beleive to be a reasonable burn rate on net assets and cash, as previously requested.

[nottiger]

quote:Originally posted by Dough Boy

If you don't mind would like to know what you beleive to be a reasonable burn rate on net assets and cash, as previously requested.



I would think the company would burn all the funds raised in 2 to 3 years - so that the window of opportunity to move from net cash burn to net cash gain would be that time.

Of course in some markets they are near profit already - that helps

They have raised a little more since the IPO by the placement, and also have warrants staged, so I think perhaps 3 to 4.5 years post IPO might be when we should expect they are trading cash positive solidly :)

NT

[The Doctor]

you are far too logical for these speculators DB....FTB is a 'lifestyle vehicle'.....similar to One tel,in Oz!Keeling and Rich?had a marvellous time spending the lucre ,with hollow projections to delay the inevitable.

[Gryffyn]

So much drivel! I think someone must have been struck off for malpractice - inability to see reality.

[The Doctor]

when did anyone get 'struck off' for malpractice?...The reward used to be a knighthood!![xx(]

[BRICKS]

The story on TV Sunday today was that for real about the adverts in USA to sell 42 Below cant beleave it happened and in the end lossed $5 Million.. [8D]

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by BRICKS

The story on TV Sunday today was that for real about the adverts in USA to sell 42 Below cant beleave it happened and in the end lossed $5 Million.. [8D]


I don't understand this!

[BRICKS]

quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave


quote:Originally posted by BRICKS

The story on TV Sunday today was that for real about the adverts in USA to sell 42 Below cant beleave it happened and in the end lossed $5 Million.. [8D]


I don't understand this!


A TV Story was on ONE TV Sunday morning at 9 AM called the Sunday show and the story was about 42 Below in USA..[8D]

Well if you did not see then you missed it..[8D]

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

Is that english?


It's English Mosteph, but not as we know it.

[BRICKS]

quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

Is that english?


What your saying you missed the show as well.. must live in NZ..[8D]

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by BRICKS

The story on TV Sunday today was that for real about the adverts in USA to sell 42 Below cant beleave it happened and in the end lossed $5 Million.. [8D]


What was "for real"?

Who can't believe it happened?

What is the "it" in "it happened?

... and I assume FTB "lossed" $5m dollars but was this in the advertising campaign or for the year or something else?

[BRICKS]

Sorry you missed the show..[8D]

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

when did anyone get 'struck off' for malpractice?...The reward used to be a knighthood!![xx(]

now there you have a point ;)

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by BRICKS

Sorry you missed the show..[8D]

How about a synopsis for those of us who missed it :)

[Winnie Burgers]

Bricks, your sentence is bloody hard to understand.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your sentence more understandable written like this:

The story on TV today, (programme called Sunday), was that for real about the adverts in USA to sell 42 Below?? I cant beleave it happened, and in the end they lossed $5 Million..

I love your replies rmbbrave & MoSteph ... I read Bricks statement 3 or 4 times wondering what the hell he was going on about. I then read your replies & cracked up laughing - I wasn't the only one left a tad confused :D

No offence intended Bricks:)

[Winnie Burgers]

I see the SP is sneaking up a tad (for no apparant reason).
Punters (new to the sharemarket) buying in after the SUNDAY programme a week or so ago maybe?? It takes about that long, from memory, to register.

[Bob C]

2.02 million shares and 2.02 million warrants just went through the market...........?

[Winnie Burgers]

What the hell is that about??

[Winnie Burgers]

Is there anyone out there who has a 'theory' on who &/or why someone purchased 2M shares & 2M warrants today?!!

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Winnie Burgers

Is there anyone out there who has a 'theory' on who &/or why someone purchased 2M shares & 2M warrants today?!!


So people like you think there could be a profit to be had in FTB

[TGT05]

A beleiver with some $, or someone with alot of $ with some inside info???

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

A beleiver with some $, or someone with alot of $ with some inside info???


I would be very carefull about saying you have inside info.

Anyway knowing that they are planning to loose even more money is not really inside information. Nor is the fact that 42B believe their product to be the best, afterall it is just Vodka, a cheap to make spirit.

[TGT05]

When did say I had inside info? Why would you even comment on 42B's beleif of being the best vodka as being inside info?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

When did say I had inside info? Why would you even comment on 42B's beleif of being the best vodka as being inside info?


Sorry, misread you quote thought you were refering to the original quote.

[TGT05]

oh k no probs

[marinesalvor]

having just zipped through the US en route for a contract in Europe can report that 42B is in about 10% of bars - the upmarket ones on the east coast
Huge presence at NZ duty free - kiwi is a good flavour

lots of tvc advertising by a brand called "Level" on espn, hbo and the networks

[Caesius]

Recieved their annual report yesterday. Nice and flashy, it's acctually very easy to read.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Caesius

Recieved their annual report yesterday. Nice and flashy, it's acctually very easy to read.

OK, you have looked at the pictures. What are the numbers telling you?;)

[The Doctor]

...apparantly the only trouble with 42below is......vodka drinkers don't like it!They like GRAIN SPIRIT...triple distilled vodka!:D

[Caesius]

Was that sarcastic Doc? I sure hope so.

[marinesalvor]

saw a massive amount of tv and back cover of magazines for Level Vodka - seems as its also a new player in the very lucrative market

[Caesius]

Visited Level's website, after being asked to fill in a form with my birthdate (their computers save you time and calculate your age for you), up popped a very EULA looking form. Did I read all four pages? Heck no.

[spector]

MS - 'LEVEL' is the high end vdka made by Absolut to try and combat all the 42 Belows that are taking their market share - so it's no wonder there is heaps of money being thrown at it.

[marinesalvor]

thanks Spec - given the media spend - I was encouraged as it shows the big boys are getting a little concerned

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by marinesalvor

thanks Spec - given the media spend - I was encouraged as it shows the big boys are getting a little concerned


So considering all things equal 42B's market has just halved. Also you could say all that marketing that was 'invested' into 42B's market now is half as effective due to a new competitor in their 'market'.

Also you cannot kid yourself that 42B is unique and no major corporation could replicate its product and marketing.

I guess the big boys are a [u]little </u>bit concerned. But my guess is that they see an opportunity as 42B pays for and creates a market, they squeeze 42B for a couple of years until all the shareholders have been bleed dry with equity calls, buy the label for few million (say 5 cents per share), and start selling it for themselves.

[marinesalvor]

not at all DB - effectiveness of media isnt factored at all - it may in fact be driving people to 42B as its probably promoting the category of premium vodkas

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by marinesalvor

not at all DB - effectiveness of media isnt factored at all - it may in fact be driving people to 42B as its probably promoting the category of premium vodkas


so you are now saying that any major competitor's marketing campaign will be so [u]effective</u> as to make more people want premium vodkas that they buy 42B's vodka because their marketing campaign is so [u]ineffective</u> that people don't want to buy their product.

However...42B's marketing will be so [u]effective </u>that people only want to buy 42B's product and so [u]ineffective</u> that no consumer would be induced to buy a premium vodka, from a competitor.

[marinesalvor]

you are sad DB
large scale media spend (eg TV, which 42B doesnt do) is normally positive for category spend - eg Premium vodka

below the line media - which 42B excels at - is what ultimately decides purchase at the bar or bottle shop. Good marketers let the competition build the category and ambush at point of sale

obviously you arent a marketer either

[Placebo]

Have a variation on the "saw 42B in a shop" story...

Mate and I travelled out of AIA last weekend (still looking sparkly, lots of new building :)), they had a 42B promotion at the duty free stand in the departure area. Mistake! Girl at the counter was highly accommodating and very chatty, and highly creative with her wee recipes. Responded well to flirtation too so we ended up spending QUITE SOME TIME there, shame there weren't any bar stools... or nuts...or crisps.... Anyway, after sampling the various combinations of feijoa/manuka/red bull/ginger beer etc etc we very happily bought a bottle each (I tell ya, vodka is not something to recommend when considering financial decisions) and staggered down to our departure gate quite happily smashed.

Can't actually remember boarding the aircraft, but must've been the right one cos I ended up in the right place....[:o)]

[cozmo]

dumping all my shares! Just talked to a friend in the US in Los Angeles who works for the distributor for all of California. Said 42B has sold less than 120 cases a month for the last three months in the whole state of 15 million people. Sounds like all hype to me. Level has spent 45 million to market their vodka with disappointing results as well. How much could a 42B spend with poor results. 2 million and be broke! Seeya 42b!

[The Doctor]

cozmo...you're learning fast for a young fella!..they are paying people to drink it....its not grain vodka...dirty old milk whey vodka in a flash bottle...big hangovers on the horizon as the 'heavyhitters' move into 'bugsquashing' mode!

[kittydashwood]

dumping all my shares because someone on a chatsite heard from a friend that the ballon won't fly.

Please explain the massive volume through the MVA good doctor.

That's not speculative money dude, the distro agreement is a good one.

[cozmo]

nobody is drinking it in the US. 42B is loading the distributors wharehouses and calling that sales. If it doesn't move off the retailers shelf, it gets returned from the retailer back to distributor. blacklisted from the distributor. impressive at first, But an illussion in sales figures. don't get caught with your wallet exposed,****e does flow uphill!

[kittydashwood]

The US is a whole lot bigger than LA cozmo. In fact California should be treated as a seperate entity for a successfull exporter, total different demography.

So the huge volume???? Any answers?

disl.

Not holding just liking the TA

[DJ Monaco]

Doc, are you now supporting FTB or have you just made another mistake? All their promotional material says grain alcohol 4 times distilled.
quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

cozmo...you're learning fast for a young fella!..they are paying people to drink it....its not grain vodka...dirty old milk whey vodka in a flash bottle...big hangovers on the horizon as the 'heavyhitters' move into 'bugsquashing' mode!

[DJ Monaco]

Cozmo, if you had any credibility it's down the toilet now. This is the only thread you've ever contributed to, and every time it's been to bag FTB. To suggest you ever owned any shares and are now a frustrated shareholder selling out is just crap.
quote:Originally posted by cozmo

nobody is drinking it in the US. 42B is loading the distributors wharehouses and calling that sales. If it doesn't move off the retailers shelf, it gets returned from the retailer back to distributor. blacklisted from the distributor. impressive at first, But an illussion in sales figures. don't get caught with your wallet exposed,****e does flow uphill!

[spector]

Hmmmm..... seeing as COZMO has only posted 5 times, and out of interest about his opinions about other stocks, I went and had a look at his other posts. Surprisingly he has only posted about 42.

The first one posted in January calls us all Mellonheads for buying in to 42, and claims he personally phoned people all over the states who told him that no one is selling it...


Posted by COZMO- 27/01/2005 : 6:37:33 PM
Heaps of mellonheads falling for this hype! Do yourself a favour and do a little research on the product. Go to their website and call a few of the location llist to see how well its moving in those locations. I tried a few in the US and not one of them said it was moving too fast. A few of them have even removed it from the shelves allready....


The next one three months later made us aware of the James Dale thing in New York which he saw as being a negative...


Posted by COZMO- 02/04/2005 : 10:59:14 AM
This will help... James Dale! what a JACKASS.

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/43254.htm

http://socialitelife.com/mt/archives/brite_bar_vs_42below_vodka.php


...Followed by another two days later when we failed to be horrified...


Posted by COZMO- 04/04/2005 : 7:18:51 PM
Hello ****face!?! Is that the way you want your president addressing anyones concern? Nice tact..



...then today, 2 months later on, he posts one saying he has 'dumped all his shares'... so not only is he now claiming he had shares in a company he was publicly slagging because of his inside knowledge... he also says he 'dumped' them despite the clear fact that no shares were sold today under market price!



Posted by COZMO- 27/06/2005 : 3:53:05 PM
dumping all my shares! Just talked to a friend in the US in Los Angeles who works for the distributor for all of California. Said 42B has sold less than 120 cases a month for the last three months in the whole state of 15 million people. Sounds like all hype to me. Level has spent 45 million to market their vodka with disappointing results as well. How much could a 42B spend with poor results. 2 million and be broke! Seeya 42b!


Obviously COZMO has never been a FTB holder or a regular contributor to sharetrader... I can almost see his "I work for an opposition vodka company" T-shirt from here!

He is obviously lying about being a FTB holder and yet he seems to know an awful lot about how vodka is traded in the states... so must have some 'indusry' background...But what I really want to know is why opposition vodka companies are trying to fight FTB through share forums!?

Let's hear your story COZMO.

[cozmo]

120 cases in the whole state of California? Huge Volume?!? 22 million people in the state.

[cozmo]

just can't believe I fell for the BS and bought in. Pissed at myself really... just venting publicly...

[kittydashwood]

The volume I am refering to is SHARES TRADED.

Albeit before the dist announcement, so obviously a little leak somewhere.

Please explain cuzziemo.

[rawdata]

The 'sale or return' distribution agreement is an unusal arrangement, usually reserved for newspapers and magazines. Have been used however by companies building up sales of new products to attract and entice distributors to stock their products - auditors will not allow as sales, as more like inventories. Very definitive figure of 120 cases though from Cozmo -can someone please check with company to verify?

[winner69]

U being serious talking about the 2 million the other day or toungue in cheek talking about the 23,000 today?

[cozmo]

23 Jun, 2005, 16:11

42 Below to develop international distribution relationships

Vodka, gin, and spring water manufacturer 42 Below Limited (42 BELOW) announced today that it is considering options for further development of import relationships in growing international markets.

42 BELOW continues to build a solid 'pipe' to overseas markets based on strong relationships with distributors and customers and has retained Macquarie to advise on strategic issues relating to the development of overseas markets.

Macquarie will be issued with a parcel of options and shares in 42 BELOW under its mandate.

Ends.
For further information contact:

Geoff Ross
Chief Executive Officer
42 Below Limited
021 42 42 19

John Duncan
Division Director
Macquarie New Zealand Limited
021 410 572

theres your volume...

[kittydashwood]

W69 talking seriously about the 2mill.

That's the most in one day of trading since the first few weeks after the float and it pierced the MVA descent.

[cozmo]

moving shares to carter holt harvey.. watch for me there.

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by cozmo

just can't believe I fell for the BS and bought in. Pissed at myself really... just venting publicly...



You shouldn't tell more lies to cover up your lies COZMO... you'll get caught out. You say you bought into the "BS of 42" and became dissillusioned with the company... and seeing as your first negative post for FTB was on the 27th of January, we can assume you bought shares before that date. However, on the 27th of January FTB shares were trading at over 70 cents... the highest they had reached at that point... so everybody that had bought shares before then were in profit. And you expect us to believe that you were upset by this?!

Go back to ABSOLUT Cozmo.

[kittydashwood]

Yep

That's the one Cozmo. Of course Maquire are mellonheads....

[Caesius]

It's a good feeling knowing that we can pull out hozmos' archived posts whenever we want.

[The Doctor]

apologies re 'grain vodka'...could not see mention of this on the bottle I sampled!surprising...'sale or return' is a discredited method of market 'penetration', it positions a product as not engendering retailers confidence in actually committing to buying it!!Vendor refill is an option but requires large investment in 'arms and legs'![B)]

[spector]

Is anyone else appalled by this forum being deliberately sabotaged by a competing vodka company? It's all very well to be one-eyed about FTB - either pro or con - but it's quite another thing to have other vodka companies pay people to create negativeity for FTB.

I now have alot of money invested with FTB and it really pisses me off that some company can effect my person profit for their own gain.

Can the moderators track COZMO's IP address and find out who he was working for?

[BRICKS]

Dont get your feathers in a knote checked at the local bottel shop and saw it on the selfs very dear what,, ask the owner hows going it and he said sold none.. [8D]

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by spector

Is anyone else appalled by this forum being deliberately sabotaged by a competing vodka company? It's all very well to be one-eyed about FTB - either pro or con - but it's quite another thing to have other vodka companies pay people to create negativeity for FTB.

I now have alot of money invested with FTB and it really pisses me off that some company can effect my person profit for their own gain.

Can the moderators track COZMO's IP address and find out who he was working for?


This is a very speculative investment yet you say have a lot of money invested in it. If I assume 'a lot' means to say a large portion of your money so you think this is very wise?

[Caesius]

Do you proof-read your posts DB - ?

If spector wants to invest his cash in FTB who are you to start lecturing him on "what's wise"?

[Bubble Boy]

This is great.

On the original 42B thread we had company plants ramping the IPO.

Now we have accusations of competitors anti-ramping.

Fascinating....

[spector]

DB - I'm as pro a FTB shareholder as you will find on this site, and if you go back through all my posts you can read all my arguments why I support the share. And I don't mind other posters expressing their arguments why they don't support the company. Often they raise valid points.

But I do have issue with plants - pro or con - putting a spin on FTB. There is no place for them here and I believe they should be "named and shamed" wherever possible. At worst they can affect the shareprice, at best they waste everyones time in pointless debate.

Bubble Boy please name the ones you think were company plants. There was Vodka Queen answering queries and well nominated as being company rep.

[blackcap]

quote:Originally posted by spector



But I do have issue with plants - pro or con - putting a spin on FTB. There is no place for them here and I believe they should be "named and shamed" wherever possible. At worst they can affect the shareprice, at best they waste everyones time in pointless debate.


Spector, I hold FTB also, but short term fluctuations in shareprice are not going to affect the company in the long run. Just ignore the "downrampers" ultimatly they make no difference to the company bottom line. Who cares if the shareprice drops in the short term. IF you are convince with the business model it presents an opportunity to buy more. If you are concerned by the actions of the "downrampers" then maybe you are not as confident in FTB as you purport to be?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by spector

DB - I'm as pro a FTB shareholder as you will find on this site, and if you go back through all my posts you can read all my arguments why I support the share. And I don't mind other posters expressing their arguments why they don't support the company. Often they raise valid points.

But I do have issue with plants - pro or con - putting a spin on FTB. There is no place for them here and I believe they should be "named and shamed" wherever possible. At worst they can affect the shareprice, at best they waste everyones time in pointless debate.


Get real, you do know that a internet forum is 99% B.S.?

[cozmo]

Anyone checked the numbers yet?
:D

[Winnie Burgers]

What numbers?!

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by Winnie Burgers

What numbers?!

I think he's referring to the IP address.

[Solo]

I don't see how the competitor can benefit by talking FTB’s share prices down, share price movement is driven by the company’s ability to make money, not the other way around.
That is, unless other vodka company is making a take over bid, of course.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by Solo

I don't see how the competitor can benefit by talking FTB’s share prices down, share price movement is driven by the company’s ability to make money, not the other way around.
That is, unless other vodka company is making a take over bid, of course.

'ability to make money'?if this was true the sp would be about 8 cents![B)]

[Guru]

FTB
02/08/2005
GENERAL

REL: 1437 HRS 42 Below Limited

GENERAL: FTB: New York distributor heavy weight commits to 42 Below

New York distributor heavy weight commits to 42 Below

Tuesday 2 August 2005: New York distributor Eber Brothers has signed an
exclusive distribution agreement with 42 Below for the state of New York.

Eber Bros are making volume commitments that will now make New York the
largest single market for 42 Below within the US. The contract runs over 5
years with agreed annual growth rates.

This new agreement comes on the back of 42 Below working with their own
people to successfully gain brand share and presence. 42 Below CEO Geoff Ross
says this development is typical of 42 Below's evolution in each market.
''When the brand is new and undiscovered all the sales and marketing work is
done by ourselves. With time and success the larger distributors take an
interest in our development, and become keen to be a partner. New York is a
particularly strong example of where our people have driven the brand quickly
and have achieved great results. To do this in one of the busiest and largest
cities in the world is particularly pleasing''

Eber Bros was established 70 years ago. They distribute a number of leading
liquor brands such as Veuve-Cliquot and Jim Beam. Eber Bros are the 13th
largest distributors in the United States, with projected revenues of close
to US$500 million. President of Eber Bros John Caruso adds, '''42 Below have
made a strong impact in our market. Vodka is in growth in the US and 42
Below's unique approach to the market is ensuring they are getting market
share quickly and efficiently. New York is one of the most influential cities
in the world in setting trends in drinking culture. 42 Below are doing a
great job here and we are excited to be a partner with them and their brand -
a brand that now has a strong position in the best bars and clubs of New York
City. We are launching through the balance of New York State (where 42 Below
has not been represented) in the next 30 days."
The agreement takes effect immediately.

[Futurz]

Hmmm, well the market seems to like the announcement.

UP 7 cents or 11% today [:0]

[Placebo]

And so it should. This is an important step in a vital market.

2 weeks to the FY....

[marinesalvor]

nice move by the vodka blokes - nice contractual activity levels - usually where our wine exporters trip up

[Placebo]

And nice timing too. With the result due in a little under 2 weeks, and likely to show a continuing loss, this gives them a bit of wriggle room if the US still isn't paying (yet!).

[Gryffyn]

What do all the doom merchants say now? FTB continue to deliver on vision and plan. Good buying was had by all some time back. And it's a fun share to own.

[Snow Leopard]

even more fun to short term trade

[marinesalvor]

and fun to drink it - anyone tried the kiwifruit one? I have a salvage contract coming up in Aus next week - will pick up a bottle at the airport no doubt

[Winnie Burgers]

You want a fun short term trade!
Try MTN on the ASX!
Yesterday was bloody fantastic!
Today should be (close to) just as crazy.

If I was still in FTB, I'd still be down $700.
Instead I'm up $3500 (and that was just from 2 buys yesterday arfo).
:D:D

[KJ]

Placebo-I think that the FY is 31 March.

[Futurz]

I think you're right KJ. Maybe Placebo is thinking about the AGM which is the 11th August.

[marinesalvor]

shoulda been back in Winnie - was good buying in low 60s last week

[Winnie Burgers]

Yeah I saw that marinesalvor - I've got FTB on my watchlist.
Excellent announcement yesterday. Good luck to all and hopefully you'll see a continual increase in the SP.

Do check out MTN on the ASX - it's not too late to double your money within the next couple of days (if not sooner) :)

[marinesalvor]

woohoo - look at this price go

[Gryffyn]

Tis all good :-)

[Placebo]

Oops, yup, well spotted guys. Next Wed is the AGM.

Anyone intending to go?

6 month result was announced Sept last year, so possibly similar date this year.

[marinesalvor]

was going to go - but will be overseas now - I put paperwork into bin - pity as they are normally great events

[Placebo]

For anyone interested it's 6pm at the Wintergarden Room, Civic Theatre Auckland.

Good opportunity to sample some product...:)

[The Doctor]

take a cab, get your moneys worth....aint 'love' a wonderful dream,I mean thing!:D
quote:Originally posted by Placebo

For anyone interested it's 6pm at the Wintergarden Room, Civic Theatre Auckland.

Good opportunity to sample some product...:)

[marinesalvor]

I guess you wont be there Doc - given your hatred of FTB

[Shiner]

42 Below Limited FTB 3 Aug, 2005, 14:31 GENERAL New Import agreement for 42 Below in USA and South America

Full Text of Announcement
New National Importation agreement for 42 Below in the USA and South America.

Wednesday 3 August: 42 Below today announced the signing of a new import agreement in the USA. Effective this month Panache International LLC will handle the importation of 42 Below vodka into the USA and work with the various state distributors. A sister company will import 42 Below Vodka and South gin into South America. The agreement requires Panache to achieve minimum sales volumes that are above those currently being achieved. There are also minimum year on year growth rates prescribed in the contract.

Later this year Panache will also take over the costs of running the 42 Below Sales and Marketing team in the US. 42 Below are currently covering the costs of running this team.

Panache International is a new joint venture company recently incorporated in New York. The company has been established to promote liquor brands and luxury brands.

Ernesto Lara from Panache International says '' We have become involved with the 42 Below brand this year and have a lot of respect for what they have achieved. Vodka is in growth in the US and South America and in building a portfolio of premium Liquor brands we are thrilled to have 42 Below as our exclusive super premium Vodka''

To move to Panache International, 42 Below is unwinding its agreement with current Importer Pearl Beverages. To exit the agreement with Pearl 42 Below is required to make staggered payments that total US$500,000. Half of this amount will be satisfied in newly issued 42 Below Shares and half in cash. Pearl Beverages will retain the US import rights (excluding duty free) to 42 Below's gin brand SOUTH. 42 Below CEO Geoff Ross says. "The move to Panache is a significant step forward. It again demonstrates the pay off of all the hard yards we have put into the US, building our brand ourselves from the street up''

The USA operates a three tier system with a national importer importing the product, selling on to state distributors who in turn sell to retail outlets. This announcement follows a prior announcement with New York State distributor Eber Bros. Eber have committed to minimum volumes which will make up close to one third of those volumes to be drawn from new Importer Panache International.

As part of the new import agreement Panache will be issued with 5 million options. These can be exercised by Panache on 1 August 2007 at a strike price of 70 cents providing Panache meet sales targets for the first two years of the Import Agreement. 42 Below Chief Executive Geoff Ross says "this means Panache are a true partner with a real interest in 42 Below's success."

For more information contact:
Geoff Ross
42 Below Ltd
Ph: +64 9 920 9430 or +64 21 42 42 19
email: geoff@42below.co.nz

[marinesalvor]

go you good thing go!!

I like the share issues to the distributors too

[Shiner]

Look forward to seeing what today's announcement will be [:p]
Going for three from three[:o)]

[marinesalvor]

FTB taking a breather as the traders hop out

[The Doctor]

love to see a 'phaedrus' chart plotting sp/to announcements.This stock is 'recommended' often by DBge,and the 'sluice gates' are opened and closed with such definition.A case of 'sizzle' having superceded any expectation of 'sausage'!

[Gryffyn]

yawn

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

love to see a 'phaedrus' chart plotting sp/to announcements.



Yeah, I think you'll probably find that when good news is announced the share price goes up and when bad news is announced the share price goes down. Generally this is what has happened over the last 200 years or so.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by spector


quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

love to see a 'phaedrus' chart plotting sp/to announcements.



Yeah, I think you'll probably find that when good news is announced the share price goes up and when bad news is announced the share price goes down. Generally this is what has happened over the last 200 years or so.
the 'timing' is what I'm interested in...p.s.--a profit is usually 'good news',a loss 'bad news' if you want to keep it simple!I doubt that has altered in the last 200yrs.:D

[spector]

I know what you're saying.. but sometimes good news can be about something that doesn't return a profit immediatelly. The Fosters announcement for 42 was percieved as good news even though it didn't return profit for 42 in Australia till months after. The Distribution deal in America is probably the same.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if 42 did announce a profit at the next meeting.

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by spector
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if 42 did announce a profit at the next meeting.


I'd be stunned. But there again, that would be a "profit" as opposed to the weasel words they've come out with so far. :D

[spector]

quote:
I'd be stunned. But there again, that would be a "profit" as opposed to the weasel words they've come out with so far. :D


Not sure what "weasel words" you're referring to SST. I'm pretty pro FTB but I don't know of anything they have said they will do that they haven't actually done. I also don't know of anything they have said they wouldn't do that they have done. Willing to be proven wrong if you have examples.

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by spector
what "weasel words" you're referring to SST. I'm pretty pro FTB but I don't know of anything they have said they will do that they haven't actually done. I also don't know of anything they have said they wouldn't do that they have done. Willing to be proven wrong if you have examples.

Gross margin on sales grew by 186% in the year while expenditure required to achieve $1 of gross margin fell from $2.13 in the 2004 year to $1.80 for the 2005 year.

As far as i can recall, no-one has yet managed to give a conclusive answer as to what this means.

New Zealand has been in profit for the full year, the UK is now consistently in profit, and Australia is close to break-even, prior to the allocation of Head Office overhead.

Is NZ in profit? If you read the sentence as a whole, you would be hard pushed to reach that conclusion. If i recall correctly, this line has been spun to mean that everywhere except America is now "profitable", which would be astonishing, given a $5.3m loss on sales of $12.8m.

[spector]

"Gross margin on sales grew by 186% in the year while expenditure required to achieve $1 of gross margin fell from $2.13 in the 2004 year to $1.80 for the 2005 year."

Yeah, even I can't work this one out....

"New Zealand has been in profit for the full year, the UK is now consistently in profit, and Australia is close to break-even, prior to the allocation of Head Office overhead."

...but from all accounts this is true, I still do ad-hoc research with bartenders whenever I'm out to see what sort of "actual" 42 turnover they are doing and they all tell me it's huge. The woman at the duty free in Auckland said that 42 was their biggest selling spirit.

[KJ]

quote:Originally posted by StainlessSteelRat


quote:Originally posted by spector
what "weasel words" you're referring to SST. I'm pretty pro FTB but I don't know of anything they have said they will do that they haven't actually done. I also don't know of anything they have said they wouldn't do that they have done. Willing to be proven wrong if you have examples.

Gross margin on sales grew by 186% in the year while expenditure required to achieve $1 of gross margin fell from $2.13 in the 2004 year to $1.80 for the 2005 year.

As far as i can recall, no-one has yet managed to give a conclusive answer as to what this means.



This says that in the 2005 yr Overheads were 1.8 times the Gross Margin-eg- if GM was $6.5m then Overheads were $11.7m.

In 2004 Overheads were 2.13 times Gross Margin.

NB Sales were $12.18m including including excise tax of $2.16m

[Shiner]

I for one will be looking forward to the positive report on Wednesday. I think we are in for a surprise.

Have a good week all.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by Shiner

I for one will be looking forward to the positive report on Wednesday. I think we are in for a surprise.

Have a good week all.Depends if you call another padded but eloquent presentation of optimistic 'spin' a 'surprise'!:(

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by KJ
This says that in the 2005 yr Overheads were 1.8 times the Gross Margin-eg- if GM was $6.5m then Overheads were $11.7m.

In 2004 Overheads were 2.13 times Gross Margin.

NB Sales were $12.18m including including excise tax of $2.16m



Yes, i understand all that, but no-one has been able to state what the relationship between sales and gross margin is. For example, if gross margin is $8m, then overheads are $14.88m, and sales are not even covering outgoings (which is probably why they are burning so much cash).

I don't necessarily think that FTB want you to know that, which is why i described it as "weasel words".

[KJ]

quote:Originally posted by KJ

TLA87-in relation to your analysis-

FBT press release dated 18/8/04:
Current sales are 6000 cases per mth,which contributes a margin of at least $100 per case-so a gross margin of $600,000 per mth.

Sales
We know that sales for Half yr to March 2004 were $3.3m.
FBT have stated that sales for Half to Sept 2004 will be $5.7m

This gives the $9m for y/e Sept 2004 that they have confirmed.

In the same release that they expect sales for the y/e March 2005 to be $12m-so sales for the first half are $5.7m and for the second half $6.3m. (total $12m)

From this it appears that the gross margin of $600,000 is generated from sales of approx $1m.(maybe a little higher)

Your calculation of margin of 16% or 21% is well astray.

Also,if you go back to the prospectus,you can see where they gave information on sales litres and sales dollars.Sales appear to average somewhere near $20 a litre.

There are quite a few other flaws in your analysis which is not worth going through IMO.

And yes,I do know the difference between gross margins and nett margins,fixed costs and variable costs.

I fully agree with you that this is a risky investment and everyone must weigh up the risks for themselves.


SSR-this was my "try" at working out the gross margin.

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by KJ


quote:Originally posted by KJ

This gives the $9m for y/e Sept 2004 that they have confirmed.

In the same release that they expect sales for the y/e March 2005 to be $12m-so sales for the first half are $5.7m and for the second half $6.3m. (total $12m)

From this it appears that the gross margin of $600,000 is generated from sales of approx $1m.(maybe a little higher)



SSR-this was my "try" at working out the gross margin.


Assuming you are right, GM for the year would be around $7.2m, which means that it costs $13.4m a year to generate. In which case, it may be some time before a profit is seen.

[KJ]

I am sure that they are nowhere near profit as they pour a lot of money into growing sales in USA.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by KJ

I am sure that they are nowhere near profit as they pour a lot of money into growing sales in USA.
....what a 'fun' way to burn cash!...at least some are enjoying themselves....the news always has to be 'good' with this one!This stock and Charlies are prime examples of backwater markets...quality stocks are disapearing from the exchange by the day!

[Placebo]

I expect to get a letter about it shortly but...

Can anybody tell me the maturity date of the A warrants?

[Maca]

28 October.

[spector]

if anyone's going to the AGM tonight can you please post a run down of events. Cheers

[The Doctor]

no surprises ....more of the same!...its all blue sky...one day...someone will buy us out,one day we'll make a profit,so what if we had put $15 mil in the bank at 7% compound...do you ever expect us to make a profit to match that?...are you daft?we're on a 'journey' come take a 'ride'![:I]
quote:Originally posted by spector

if anyone's going to the AGM tonight can you please post a run down of events. Cheers

[marinesalvor]

gald to hear you have put your money into FTB doc after all your putdowns

[Gryffyn]

New Zealand vodka is toast of the town

12.08.05 9.40am

Spirits producer and exporter 42Below has taken out New Zealand's top export award.

Export New Zealand named 42Below as The New Zealand Emerging Exporter of the Year 2005 at the NZTE Export Awards held in Christchurch last night, in recognition of phenomenal growth since it started exporting.

"Designed with export in mind, in just two years, 42 Below has achieved brand recognition worldwide, is regarded as one of the best vodkas and requested in key outlets stretching form Australia, the Pacific, Singapore, Japan and the USA to the UK, Europe and Iceland", Bob Walters, CEO, Export New Zealand, said.

42 Below is produced using spring water and a secret recipe – in five distinctive varients – pure vodka, passionfruit, feijoa, Manuka honey and kiwifruit.

It has made inroads into a number of prestigious markets, including The Ritz Hotels in London and Paris, and Raffles in Singapore.

42 Below CEO Geoff Ross said he envisioned a product to leverage off the back of New Zealand's clean and green image. "The core value of the vodka is its purity", he said.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by spector

if anyone's going to the AGM tonight can you please post a run down of events. Cheers


Doesn't look like much to report!....except Ross says the great thing about 42below is its 'purity'.....made with a 'secret recipe'....this guy 'kills' me![:o)]

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by The Doctor

no surprises ....more of the same!...its all blue sky...one day...someone will buy us out,one day we'll make a profit,so what if we had put $15 mil in the bank at 7% compound...do you ever expect us to make a profit to match that?...are you daft?we're on a 'journey' come take a 'ride'![:I]
quote:Originally posted by spector

if anyone's going to the AGM tonight can you please post a run down of events. Cheers



Jeepers Doc, after all your negative comments on FTB and you turn out to be a shareholder?! Did they really talk about looking to get bought out at the AGM?, it's not something they have ever talked about before, who did they say might be the buyer?

[The Doctor]

I was merely musing...of course I did not attend!Pretty accurate all the same:D...well if they can find that guy that bought the Brooklyn Bridge![:I].....don't wonder why no one has given a 'run down' on the meeting....more of the same...'sizzle'.[:o)]

[marinesalvor]

poor Doc - you are one confused turkey!!

[stockbroker]

Selling 42 Below???

Dont know where you got that idea from, at the AGM yesterday it was Geoff Ross who was saying he was so pleased that the same board of directors had continued (and will continue) into the future, there sure wasnt any kind of implication of on selling it!!!

[marinesalvor]

dont bite stockbroker - Doc is only trying to tease you

[Placebo]

He is this thread's evil conscience [}:)]

Steady as she goes AGM by the look of it. FTB fired a couple of shots in the last week or two that the market liked. Looks like that was enough for the time being :)

[Bobby_Fischer]

Steady as she goes is right. I was a bit surprised there was no attempt to "stun" us with the latest turnover figures. Either the figures are uninspiring, or they are holding back good news to encourage uptake of the October 05 warrants.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by Bobby_Fischer

Steady as she goes is right. I was a bit surprised there was no attempt to "stun" us with the latest turnover figures. Either the figures are uninspiring, or they are holding back good news to encourage uptake of the October 05 warrants.

'stun' would be the right word!Have fun trading because this 'puppy' coulda been toffee apples... made with 'carefully selected ,premium ,organic ,fresh NZ apples ,lovingly dipped in a luxurious toffee made with a secret recipe handed down by Granny Ross to this generation.!:D

[stockbroker]

you know you're right doc, and thats the beauty of 42 below is how clever they've been in selling a premium product, by managing to convince people of how good their brand is. Its called good brand development, which is why they are going to continue to be so successful.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by stockbroker

you know you're right doc, and thats the beauty of 42 below is how clever they've been in selling a premium product, by managing to convince people of how good their brand is. Its called good brand development, which is why they are going to continue to be so successful.




find it interesting that they are not content with vodka though!..water,gin,and now rum....amazing ...they're going to take the whole liquor world by storm...or will the new products be excuses for 'burning cash'!

[Placebo]

What do you care, Doc?[xx(]

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by Placebo

What do you care, Doc?[xx(]


I'm a caring person!(with a good memory of 'floaters')[:p]

[Placebo]

quote:with a good memory of 'floaters'

...you had these in your bath as a child?

[The Doctor]

can't say I did, and have avoided taking a 'bath' on the sharemkt by recognising 'them'...':Dplacebos'....as opposed to real shares!

[TGT05]

Does anyone know when FTB release their full year results?

[Snow Leopard]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

Does anyone know when FTB release their full year results?

it was at 9:00am on the 12th May 2005. A little early for drinking vodka, but heh.

[TGT05]

Half year results?

[Snow Leopard]

:D

Well last year it was at 3:49pm on the 22nd November 2004, a good time to start on the cocktails.

cheers

[TGT05]

What results are next expected and when?

[Snow Leopard]

Today is Friday
The next result is that I down a few starting 5:30pm

:D :D :D

[TGT05]

funny guy is PT...

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

What results are next expected and when?



shsss....!...'results ...what dat?...talk about intangibles,goodwill,marketing,hype,promises,....b ut results...what have you been drinking?

[TGT05]

results are reults good or bad doc... and they'l be good...

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by TGT05

results are reults good or bad doc... and they'l be good...


lets say if they're not good...they can make em 'good'...stock/sales,brand revaluations....they know them all!

[Maca]

42 Below Limited Announcement (issued @ 1:22pm)
FTB06/09/2005GENERAL REL: 1322 HRS 42 Below Limited GENERAL: FTB: 42 BELOW IMPLEMENTS NEW US IMPORTER 42 Below recently announced that Panache International would become the newUSA import partner for 42 Below and cover Duty Free Sales for 42 Below. 42Below can confirm that this transition has now taken place and the firstorder for 15,000 cases of 42 Below has been ordered and despatched. Due tothe new relationship with Panache, 42 Below believe US case sales thisfinancial year are likely to be more than double the previous year. Panache International has now taken over the 42 Below marketing and salesteam, plus the 42 Below marketing plan for the United States. Full funding ofthese expenses will be the responsibility of Panache from November 18 thisyear. Previously 42 Below had announced that while the UK and New Zealandmarkets were profitable, and Australia was getting close to profit, fundswere still being invested in the US to maximise the opportunity there. ThePanache arrangement changes the situation considerably moving the US marketinto profit later this financial year through higher case sales coupled withconsiderably lower overheads. Panache also has minimum volume commitments andminimum growth rates set for the next 5 years. For more information contact: Geoff Rossgeoff@42below.co.nzPhoneMob: 021 424219Office:(09) 920 9430End CA:00120346 For:FTB Type:GENERAL Time:2005-09-06:13:22:23

[Placebo]

Well my bullsh1tometer is going off over this one.

"If it sounds to good to be true, it usually is."

And this sounds too good to be true.. :D

[Bobby_Fischer]

Hardly news, is it? These details should have been clear to management at the time the original announcement was made last month. It's got to be part of the "softening up" process in the lead up to the exercise (or not) of series one warrants. Doubtless Mr Ross and Co. still have a bundle they'd like to offload elsewhere first?

[The Doctor]

bluesky as usual...what do they 'believe' the capital requirements of establishing commercial production and distribution of water,gin and rum will be?Don't tell me ...the vodkas going 'gangbusters' but overall earnings have been impacted by the resources invested in....!!!

[Gryffyn]

42 Below top in British vodka test

13.09.05 7.40am

A New Zealand vodka has tickled the tastebuds of British drinkers, coming out tops in a blind taste test by a consumer rights magazine.

42 Below topped a taste test of 13 premium vodka brands conducted by Britain's Which? magazine, the sister publication of New Zealand's Consumer magazine. Other brands tested included Russia's Stolichnaya, Finland's Finlandia and Sweden's Absolut Blue.

According to Consumer's website, the British tasters found 42 Below complex and smooth, noting initial flavours of butterscotch and aniseed, with a spicy aftertaste.

42 Below chief executive Geoff Ross said the brand already had a strong reputation in Britain and was stocked by large department stores such as Harvey Nichols and Selfridges and was the house vodka at London's Ritz Hotel.

[Gryffyn]

Now that is great and free publicity.

[barnsley bill]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Now that is great and free publicity.


yeah and i bet all the cardigan wearing which readers drink heaps of vodka

[marinesalvor]

good one bill

[Gryffyn]

? can you try that in English or have you had too much of the excellent product ;)

[barnsley bill]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

? can you try that in English or have you had too much of the excellent product ;)


"Which" is the magazine referred to in the article.

And I prefer my tipple of choice, to come from somewhere bit more classy than a south auckland bottling plant!!

[Gryffyn]

Ah. Cheers.

[The Doctor]

quote:Originally posted by barnsley bill


quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

? can you try that in English or have you had too much of the excellent product ;)


"Which" is the magazine referred to in the article.

And I prefer my tipple of choice, to come from somewhere bit more classy than a south auckland bottling plant!!

but don't forget its made from a 'secret recipe'!!:D

[Gryffyn]

quack quack

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

42 Below top in British vodka test

13.09.05 7.40am

A New Zealand vodka has tickled the tastebuds of British drinkers, coming out tops in a blind taste test by a consumer rights magazine.

42 Below topped a taste test of 13 premium vodka brands conducted by Britain's Which? magazine, the sister publication of New Zealand's Consumer magazine. Other brands tested included Russia's Stolichnaya, Finland's Finlandia and Sweden's Absolut Blue.

According to Consumer's website, the British tasters found 42 Below complex and smooth, noting initial flavours of butterscotch and aniseed, with a spicy aftertaste.

42 Below chief executive Geoff Ross said the brand already had a strong reputation in Britain and was stocked by large department stores such as Harvey Nichols and Selfridges and was the house vodka at London's Ritz Hotel.


What about TESCOS???????????????????????????????????????????? ?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

42 Below top in British vodka test

13.09.05 7.40am

A New Zealand vodka has tickled the tastebuds of British drinkers, coming out tops in a blind taste test by a consumer rights magazine.

42 Below topped a taste test of 13 premium vodka brands conducted by Britain's Which? magazine, the sister publication of New Zealand's Consumer magazine. Other brands tested included Russia's Stolichnaya, Finland's Finlandia and Sweden's Absolut Blue.

According to Consumer's website, the British tasters found 42 Below complex and smooth, noting initial flavours of butterscotch and aniseed, with a spicy aftertaste.

42 Below chief executive Geoff Ross said the brand already had a strong reputation in Britain and was stocked by large department stores such as Harvey Nichols and Selfridges and was the house vodka at London's Ritz Hotel.


What about M&S???????????????????

What about Safeway???????????????

And oh my imagine how many bottles of 'house vodka' are drunk at the Ritz, maybe 5 a week or 260 a year and at a 'possible profit' of $1 per bottle that is a whopping $260pa profit.

[marinesalvor]

Dough Boy - if its house bottle at the ritz the wannabees will trundle off to regent/oxford st and get a bottle to put on their sideboard - London is like that

I would never put it in Safeway, possible M&S but they would have to guarantee volume

[spector]

"And oh my imagine how many bottles of 'house vodka' are drunk at the Ritz, maybe 5 a week or 260 a year and at a 'possible profit' of $1 per bottle that is a whopping $260pa profit. "


Dough Boy - a bottle of 42 Below at Bungalow 8 in New York will cost you $270 American.

[Snow Leopard]

quote:Originally posted by spector

"And oh my imagine how many bottles of 'house vodka' are drunk at the Ritz, maybe 5 a week or 260 a year and at a 'possible profit' of $1 per bottle that is a whopping $260pa profit. "


Dough Boy - a bottle of 42 Below at Bungalow 8 in New York will cost you $270 American.

Do they do BYO?

[barnsley bill]

I think you will find that is retail margin not wholesale margin making that price. How many bottles a week at US270...

[spector]

quote:Originally posted by barnsley bill

I think you will find that is retail margin not wholesale margin making that price. How many bottles a week at US270...



You are correct BB that is retail margin not wholesale and I have no idea how many bottles they go through a week... although as it is the house pour it must be a fair few. My rel point was that if people are willing to pay $270 a bottle then 42 must have a very high percieved value which is great for the company.

I trawled through the 42 site to see if I could find some numbers and came across this...

"At the salubrious ICE club in Las Vegas, home of world's biggest DJs Paul Oakenfold, Tiesto, Paul Van **** and Donald Glaude, the USA bottle record has been broken. ICE sold 26 bottles of 42 BELOW in one night, in one VIP lounge to one particularly large table. We've been sworn to secrecy over who drank them all but that is 325 double shots. Nice one ICE."

If this guy was paying $270 a bottle then he must have serious cash... and probably had a serious headache the next day:)

[marinesalvor]

its all good news for positioning in the market.

[marinesalvor]

and a forecast that shows increased sales, smaller losses and reduced cost structure...

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by spector


quote:Originally posted by barnsley bill

I think you will find that is retail margin not wholesale margin making that price. How many bottles a week at US270...



You are correct BB that is retail margin not wholesale and I have no idea how many bottles they go through a week... although as it is the house pour it must be a fair few. My rel point was that if people are willing to pay $270 a bottle then 42 must have a very high percieved value which is great for the company.

I trawled through the 42 site to see if I could find some numbers and came across this...

"At the salubrious ICE club in Las Vegas, home of world's biggest DJs Paul Oakenfold, Tiesto, Paul Van **** and Donald Glaude, the USA bottle record has been broken. ICE sold 26 bottles of 42 BELOW in one night, in one VIP lounge to one particularly large table. We've been sworn to secrecy over who drank them all but that is 325 double shots. Nice one ICE."

If this guy was paying $270 a bottle then he must have serious cash... and probably had a serious headache the next day:)


So the rumour is that 26 bottles of vodka sold at a bar, which broke the informal USA record for a rumoured $270 a bottle which equates to a rumoured US$7020 dollars in the till. Now IF 42B could even garner 10% on this sale that eqautes to US$702 from the biggest ever rumoured party of 42B drinking on the globe.

So what!

Does one piss-up make 42B worth its current valuation?

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by marinesalvor

and a forecast that shows increased sales, smaller losses and reduced cost structure...


Actually, it's a forecast that shows deep discounting. http://www.nzx.com/market/market_announcements/by_company?id=120700 They are expecting sales to increase by 70% but revenue to only increase by 27% - something's gotta give, and it looks like it will be the A warrants :D.

[barnsley bill]

NOPE, neither does the latest release. If i read it correctly they claim that by next year they will have achieved the stunning performance of only spending $1.48 for every $1 revenue. But the good news is they are going to sell lots more cases at a loss than last year..... :D

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by marinesalvor

Dough Boy - if its house bottle at the ritz the wannabees will trundle off to regent/oxford st and get a bottle to put on their sideboard - London is like that

I would never put it in Safeway, possible M&S but they would have to guarantee volume


Exactly the point you will never find 42B in the mass market retailers shelfs so it will never gain volume and never gain economy of scale and it will forever expend money on marketing its product to wannabees who buy it last week and move on to something newer next week or simply drop-out of the London scene for want of cash.

By the way have you been to London?

[Dough Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

42 Below top in British vodka test

13.09.05 7.40am

A New Zealand vodka has tickled the tastebuds of British drinkers, coming out tops in a blind taste test by a consumer rights magazine.

42 Below topped a taste test of 13 premium vodka brands conducted by Britain's Which? magazine, the sister publication of New Zealand's Consumer magazine. Other brands tested included Russia's Stolichnaya, Finland's Finlandia and Sweden's Absolut Blue.

According to Consumer's website, the British tasters found 42 Below complex and smooth, noting initial flavours of butterscotch and aniseed, with a spicy aftertaste.

42 Below chief executive Geoff Ross said the brand already had a strong reputation in Britain and was stocked by large department stores such as Harvey Nichols and Selfridges and was the house vodka at London's Ritz Hotel.


Well wasn't there a shooting yesterday at Harvey Nichols, guess that is one half of their London retail scene with a slow-down in customer numbers for a few days. Now I expect that to lead into a loss in the British market.

[marinesalvor]

yawn
obviously you people dont understand marketing a premium product...