PDA

View Full Version : Must be time for the Elections 2014 forum



artemis
11-02-2014, 03:55 PM
Yes? How about it.

craic
11-02-2014, 04:41 PM
It's a foregone conclusion. D Cunliffe will not be PM after the election. Winston Peters will be lost in the storm. The Greens will be two MPs short of their current position.

BIRMANBOY
11-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Maybe not such a good idea...EZ is already devoting 3-4 hours per day on the existing thread.....there is only so much one man can do:lol:
Yes? How about it.

elZorro
11-02-2014, 05:25 PM
Maybe not such a good idea...EZ is already devoting 3-4 hours per day on the existing thread.....there is only so much one man can do:lol:

All useful contributions are acceptable, either side. I just hope I don't have to post all of the useful content from the other thread, where some of us successfully demolished most of the selfish arguments from the Right.

I note Kim Dotcom is hoping to stack the election in the Left's favour, just like National are hoping to let the Conservative Party and Act through, even though if the latter were pets, they should be put down, to end their misery.

BB, if I can help get Labour back in and moving the country in a more sustainable direction, it's time well spent.

Labour is paying better odds than National at the moment in the ipredict poll. I should place a bet while it's paying so well.

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=PM.2014.LABOUR

Who knows how long the golden boy will last?

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=KEY.DEPART.2014

BIRMANBOY
11-02-2014, 05:37 PM
Every comedian needs a straight man EZ...I appreciate you volunteering and I quote....

"I just hope I don't have to post all of the useful content from the other thread, where some of us successfully demolished most of the selfish arguments from the Right.

That should take about 10 seconds EZ...at least if you are referring to your posts.:p


All useful contributions are acceptable, either side. I just hope I don't have to post all of the useful content from the other thread, where some of us successfully demolished most of the selfish arguments from the Right.

I note Kim Dotcom is hoping to stack the election in the Left's favour, just like National are hoping to let the Conservative Party and Act through, even though if the latter were pets, they should be put down, to end their misery.

BB, if I can help get Labour back in and moving the country in a more sustainable direction, it's time well spent.

Labour is paying better odds than National at the moment in the ipredict poll. I should place a bet while it's paying so well.

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=PM.2014.LABOUR

JBmurc
11-02-2014, 06:20 PM
I predict more B.S polls talking up the Lefts bullish election chances follow by a landslide win to the right once again thanks to the looneys shooting themselves in the foot right along with their most disliked leader in recent times .....

westerly
12-02-2014, 10:56 AM
Yes? How about it.

Definitely time to close the 2011 thread. Most of the contributors seem to be followers of Simon Lusk the National/Act extremist following his instruction " " to take over the blogosphere ".
It would be a change to get back to debating the actual policies of the contendors but I suppose dreams are free

Westerly

elZorro
16-02-2014, 08:53 PM
Definitely time to close the 2011 thread. Most of the contributors seem to be followers of Simon Lusk the National/Act extremist following his instruction " " to take over the blogosphere ".
It would be a change to get back to debating the actual policies of the contendors but I suppose dreams are free

Westerly

I must admit I'd like the title of the other thread not to have 2011 in it, Westerly. But no-one seems to be posting here.

BTW, I don't think I'd like Simon Lusk, even if he is capable of catching an ugly fish in a lake. FP would probably like him.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10887749

craic
17-02-2014, 10:12 AM
ELZ, think back to the last Labour Leader. In almost everyone's eyes he was a lame duck, heading for the pot - but you didn't agree. I would hate to have to calculate the hours you spent trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Now you would have us believe that Labour will triumph, Led by a cynic with both feet stuck firmly in The "What about the Workers?" philosophy of ancient times. Maybe you could look at importing an Australian leader - they seem to have plenty of spares.

iceman
23-02-2014, 10:06 AM
A good article from Eric Watson in the Herald today http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11208050

I think it sums up how many are feeling and is the main reason National will have no trouble winning the election for a third term. Labour being so utterly rudderless helps as well of course ;)

elZorro
23-02-2014, 10:20 AM
A good article from Eric Watson in the Herald today http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11208050

I think it sums up how many are feeling and is the main reason National will have no trouble winning the election for a third term. Labour being so utterly rudderless helps as well of course ;)


Eric Watson:So that begs the question ... why would you want to change that?
Why would you want uncertainty of leadership for New Zealand?


Iceman, don't you think that just maybe, Eric Watson wouldn't like to see a CGT in NZ? He's pushing a massive barrow there.

iceman
23-02-2014, 10:44 AM
Iceman, don't you think that just maybe, Eric Watson wouldn't like to see a CGT in NZ? He's pushing a massive barrow there.

Yes quite possibly he will be against CGT, like so many others. The main point though, is that like a majority of voters, he does not want a change of Government. You & Rod Oram belong to a fast shrinking minority !

Sgt Pepper
23-02-2014, 03:37 PM
Well, heres a scenario which may/probably confront the next government. Home mortgages could well be 10% in 2 years, not only urban national voters but indebted dairy farmers could be severely stretched to cover this debt, amongst all the unfolding stress and economic hardship blame will be directed on the incumbent government, by 2016 the benign economic environment of 2014 will be but a distant memory

craic
23-02-2014, 05:11 PM
So 51% for National in the latest poll. Greens down. DC having to reassert his support within the party. JK supporting an October election.

winner69
23-02-2014, 05:26 PM
So 51% for National in the latest poll. Greens down. DC having to reassert his support within the party. JK supporting an October election.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next round of polls have the Nats even higher ....by not being very clever while the others self destruct

elZorro
23-02-2014, 06:49 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the next round of polls have the Nats even higher ....by not being very clever while the others self destruct

There is a small positive, Labour's vote didn't go down, the Greens did (by 5%). Which implies some will vote either National or the Greens. Or, in a more complex way, some are swinging from Labour to National, while others are moving from Greens to Labour, in about equal amounts. People are starting to make their voting decisions from amongst the two main parties.

Don't panic W69, it's still quite a while until the election. The Hamilton East candidate has been selected, (Dr Cliff Allen) he should give the local National MP a run for his money.

winner69
23-02-2014, 06:57 PM
There is a small positive, Labour's vote didn't go down, the Greens did (by 5%). Which implies some will vote either National or the Greens. Or, in a more complex way, some are swinging from Labour to National, while others are moving from Greens to Labour, in about equal amounts. People are starting to make their voting decisions from amongst the two main parties.

Don't panic W69, it's still quite a while until the election. The Hamilton East candidate has been selected, (Dr Cliff Allen) he should give the local National MP a run for his money.

Individual seats don't matter much do they, except the likes of Epsom

westerly
23-02-2014, 08:03 PM
A good article from Eric Watson in the Herald today http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11208050

I think it sums up how many are feeling and is the main reason National will have no trouble winning the election for a third term. Labour being so utterly rudderless helps as well of course ;)

The Herald, Australian owned can hardly be considered to be neutral in it's views given the the pro far right leanings of regular columists Bob Jones, Rodney Hide and now Eric Watson with is party political offerring in support of National. Watson doesn,t appear to move in the average NZ 'ers world.
Hide is or was a member of ACT which hardly rates in any poll but still gets far more media publicity than it deserves. I suppose Prebble will be writing a weekly column next.

westerly

craic
23-02-2014, 09:41 PM
If you consider the Herald to be right wing then you have your glasses on upside down.

iceman
24-02-2014, 12:44 AM
The Herald, Australian owned can hardly be considered to be neutral in it's views given the the pro far right leanings of regular columists Bob Jones, Rodney Hide and now Eric Watson with is party political offerring in support of National. Watson doesn,t appear to move in the average NZ 'ers world.
Hide is or was a member of ACT which hardly rates in any poll but still gets far more media publicity than it deserves. I suppose Prebble will be writing a weekly column next.

westerly

You conveniently forgot to mention regular pen Matt McCarten. Hardly a right winger

westerly
24-02-2014, 12:22 PM
You conveniently forgot to mention regular pen Matt McCarten. Hardly a right winger

Correct, I did probably a token attempt at balance, still 3 to 1 and I am not sure about Damian Grant but he is somewhere right.
westerly

Bobcat.
24-02-2014, 01:56 PM
Let's challenge the all too well established (by mainstream media) left-wing / right-wing paradigm. It's normally presented as a horizontal continuum, as though the hard left wing and hard right wing have nothing in common (i.e. poles apart). I beg to differ. Consider the continuum instead as circular.

5534

Other views?

winner69
24-02-2014, 04:20 PM
EZ ... John baby bribing the low paid now with minimum wage going up

No doubt prices will follow

elZorro
24-02-2014, 06:18 PM
EZ ... John baby bribing the low paid now with minimum wage going up

No doubt prices will follow

W69, I wonder about businesses who feel that all they can pay is around the minimum wage. Or more correctly, suspect that they can get away with paying the statutory minimum wage, or close to it. Students and new employees might now be on $11.40 an hour. I am not a great payer myself, but my lowest paid FT employee is on nearly twice that. Anyone with most of a tertiary qualification but still a student is on higher again. A higher unemployment level always plays into the hands of employers, the buzz goes around, it really does. A not-so-subtle phone call that you don't need to pay very well at the moment, from other businesses in your field.

So National have increased the minimum adult wage by 50c to $14.25 an hour. This is a cheap policy, as it might pull a bit of cash out of some retail employers and rest homes etc, and cycle it around to capture a bit of GST and other excise taxes. Most govt employees will be above this pay level already, hopefully. It's a feel-good policy change, things are of course on the up, and National has pulled us out of the recession, because they are just so damn nice.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11209083

Minerbarejet
24-02-2014, 06:49 PM
Snap election John, do it now!!!

Major von Tempsky
24-02-2014, 07:10 PM
Yep, agree! Kick them to death while they're down! :-)

Bobcat - I would agree. Consider Stalin and Hitler, in practice nothing different between them. Complete intervention by the State, persecution and annihilation of minorities.

craic
03-03-2014, 10:13 PM
So where are we now? I'm full of fine wines and whisky tonight and looking forward to tomorrow. All the crap that is going on elsewhere on other forums does not answer the fundamental questions.
What is the left going to do to prevent Johns Key's cakewalk to victory?
What can they do with David Cunliffes approach/personalty to improve his credibility?
Will NZ still be the happy prosperous place after the election?
how is it going to affect me and all the other oldies?
Who cares?

iceman
03-03-2014, 11:39 PM
So where are we now? I'm full of fine wines and whisky tonight and looking forward to tomorrow. All the crap that is going on elsewhere on other forums does not answer the fundamental questions.
What is the left going to do to prevent Johns Key's cakewalk to victory?
What can they do with David Cunliffes approach/personalty to improve his credibility?
Will NZ still be the happy prosperous place after the election?
how is it going to affect me and all the other oldies?
Who cares?

I hope you had a proper single malt SCOTCH, not an Irish blend :p

Its too late to do anything to improve Cunliffe´s credibility, especially after his use of a Trust for funds for his Leadership campaign, after belonging to the Government that banned use of Trust for election fund raising. What a hypocrite.

Yes NZ will continue to prosper under a Key lead Government after the election.

I have formed the view of your good self, through your comments on this forum, that whatever Government will be in place after next or any election thereafter, you will be just fine. Somehow I don´t see you as the type that relies too heavily on handouts from the Government !!

artemis
04-03-2014, 07:57 AM
Mr Cunliffe's trust is the gift that will keep on giving, up to the election and beyond. What was he thinking? Seems likely there were decent union contributions to his campaign, which would support the appointment of Mr McCarten and the probable move (far?) left.

Cuzzie
04-03-2014, 08:26 AM
Mr Cunliffe's trust is the gift that will keep on giving, up to the election and beyond. What was he thinking? Seems likely there were decent union contributions to his campaign, which would support the appointment of Mr McCarten and the probable move (far?) left. And at the same time Cunliffe is self imploding, the quarterly Overseas Trade Index Provisional Results show that our Terms of trade are at new 40-year high.

"New Zealand's terms of trade rose to a 40-year high for the second straight quarter in the final three months of 2013 as import prices fell more than export prices. On a volume measure, dairy products led exports higher while imports were unchanged.

Terms of trade, which measures the quantity of imports the country can buy with a set amount of exports, gained 2.3 per cent in the fourth quarter to the highest level since December 1973, according to Statistics New Zealand. It would need to climb another 3.5 per cent to match the all-time high recorded in the June quarter of 1973."

Link is / http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11212936
Stat Link is / http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201410/TradeStats.pdf

I'd say it is still a two horse race, John Key up against a Donkey and the trainer of the Donkey is injecting illegal steroids into his three legged Donkey to keep him in the race. I might put a lazy 1k on one of them, let me see ... who will I choose. If the Donkey should win no doubt there would be an inquiry & would be found out as the cheat he is, but that wont happen because his cheating is in the public eye all before the race and nobody wants to back a horse that will get disqualified if he even places third.
Man I which the horse was Shane Jones, at least it would be a good race to watch. A form horse that could push John Key would be exciting to watch and would reduce my lazy 1k down to maybe $10.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, "have Labour shot itself in the foot? My answer is, "clearly".

Xerof
04-03-2014, 09:46 AM
Snap election John, do it now!!!

No need, the longer this goes the better it gets for the incumbents

nextbigthing
04-03-2014, 01:04 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9788631/Cunliffe-Three-months-three-gaffes

elZorro
04-03-2014, 04:39 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9788631/Cunliffe-Three-months-three-gaffes

Wait a minute: the amounts involved in the trust totalled less than $20,000, and it was for a leadership campaign. It wasn't an election campaign. While two donations will be repaid, another three are now on the public record. He did nothing illegal, the new rules are in place for an election campaign.

The slightest slipups by DC are being touted as evidence of failure in election year. What about all the good policies that are coming through?

fungus pudding
04-03-2014, 05:04 PM
Wait a minute: the amounts involved in the trust totalled less than $20,000, and it was for a leadership campaign. It wasn't an election campaign. While two donations will be repaid, another three are now on the public record. He did nothing illegal, the new rules are in place for an election campaign.

The slightest slipups by DC are being touted as evidence of failure in election year. What about all the good policies that are coming through?

Not very often you have such complimentary comments about National or their policies. Congratulations.

Cuzzie
04-03-2014, 07:50 PM
Wait a minute: the amounts involved in the trust totalled less than $20,000, and it was for a leadership campaign. It wasn't an election campaign. While two donations will be repaid, another three are now on the public record. He did nothing illegal, the new rules are in place for an election campaign.

The slightest slipups by DC are being touted as evidence of failure in election year. What about all the good policies that are coming through? Then why is Cunliffe apologising again for. The headline was "Cunliffe comes clean over donations", for Goodness sake. Cunliffe has also said that using the trust for the campaign was a lapse in judgement. Here's the Link/ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11213703
In it he said "I don't think in hindsight that a trust structure fully represented the values I would like to bring to this leadership." Dear oh dear. Make sure you read the rest of this sorry story while your there.

What's this, here is another Labour Cock-up - Labour accidentally leaks own policy details & the link is : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11213873

Lets go for a trifecta and in the Herald also is this/ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11213839 TVNZ bias probe stalls Labour's candidate nod.

EZ your hard on the back foot currently, tell me is there any good news stories to report on from the wayward left.

Here is some advice for David Cuniliffe, most people need to think twice before making a statement or acting on one's decisions, in your case David it would pay to think at least three if not four times.

It has got to be said, "Is Labour doomed for this election, or can they come back and win with Cuniliff boosted by the Greens"? I say not even close now, not even in the same ballpark close.

elZorro
04-03-2014, 08:27 PM
Cuzzie, I think David Cunliffe is just setting very high standards for himself. I think you'll find that a leadership campaign within a party's ranks does not have any rules about disclosing donations over $500. He has disclosed what he could, and paid back the rest, only because of intense media interest, and because the Right has made it look like he's up to something.

You'd better hope that National is squeaky clean, because it's a long time until voting, and they have to get almost all of their side of the vote themselves. Not too many other parties will be helping out.

Longhaul
04-03-2014, 08:39 PM
I think the simple answer to all of David's woes is that he needs to grow a beard.

nextbigthing
05-03-2014, 01:47 PM
He has disclosed what he could, and paid back the rest, only because of intense media interest, and because the Right has made it look like he's up to something.


You're right, he only paid it back because he got found and had to.

You're right again, they've tried to make him look like he's up to something. But he's up to nothing :D

Which side are you arguing for? :p

Just having you on el Z ;). Don't worry there will be another election sometime.

Harvey Specter
05-03-2014, 02:30 PM
Wait a minute: the amounts involved in the trust totalled less than $20,000, And his household income is over $500k and he stood to personally benefit (trough a pay rise) from being successful - why didn't he just pay for his own campaign!

iceman
16-03-2014, 10:50 AM
So Winston has ruled out working with United Future and the Maori Party after the election. Importantly he ruled out neither Labour or National.
But ruling out UF may make things difficult for Key and likewise ruling out the Maori Party may make things difficult for both Key & Cunliffe, assuming they (MP) will get at least 2 seats.

I think Winston is betting on him reaching the 5% mark and bringing in a similar number of MPs as he has now and hoping to hold the balance of power.
I would not be surprised to see him place his party on the cross benches, himself possibly holding Ministerial Warrants for Racing and Senior Citizens. From there he could be the center of attention on just about every issue, something he very much wants.

I can't see Key accepting such a situation and believe he would rather leave politics, but Cunliffe is desperate enough to do it.

I hope this scenario does not play out and I personally think Winston First will struggle to get the 5%.

elZorro
16-03-2014, 11:06 AM
So Winston has ruled out working with United Future and the Maori Party after the election. Importantly he ruled out neither Labour or National.
But ruling out UF may make things difficult for Key and likewise ruling out the Maori Party may make things difficult for both Key & Cunliffe, assuming they (MP) will get at least 2 seats.

I think Winston is betting on him reaching the 5% mark and bringing in a similar number of MPs as he has now and hoping to hold the balance of power.
I would not be surprised to see him place his party on the cross benches, himself possibly holding Ministerial Warrants for Racing and Senior Citizens. From there he could be the center of attention on just about every issue, something he very much wants.

I can't see Key accepting such a situation and believe he would rather leave politics, but Cunliffe is desperate enough to do it.

I hope this scenario does not play out and I personally think Winston First will struggle to get the 5%.

Which is all very right-wing, Iceman, there's no room for any other views from a coalition? Craic has just found another cause for Winston to latch onto, not a bad one at all. If he has enough ammo, he should get 5%.

I had a look at Q&A this morning, some well considered comments from Russel Norman, he continues to impress. And all the panellists appeared to be pro-Labour/Green in their thinking, the comments streaming in under the feed were mostly fairly unhappy with the current state of affairs. I think middle NZ is hurting a bit more than John key realises.

iceman
16-03-2014, 06:14 PM
Which is all very right-wing, Iceman, there's no room for any other views from a coalition?

Could you expand on this comment please EZ ? I have no idea what you mean !

elZorro
16-03-2014, 08:13 PM
Could you expand on this comment please EZ ? I have no idea what you mean !

I'm not sure what I meant either, it was kind of a throwaway line. I watched the Winston Peters interview just now. He's pretty good at that.

It would appear though, that Winston is trying to get plenty of votes off National, he didn't bag Labour or the Greens, and he's not keen on the Maori Party or United Future. He looks like a natural partner for Labour.

Those three parties could work together IMO, they have reasonable history behind them. A worthy coalition, I think that's what I meant.

JBmurc
16-03-2014, 08:32 PM
I'm not sure what I meant either, it was kind of a throwaway line. I watched the Winston Peters interview just now. He's pretty good at that.

It would appear though, that Winston is trying to get plenty of votes off National, he didn't bag Labour or the Greens, and he's not keen on the Maori Party or United Future. He looks like a natural partner for Labour.

Those three parties could work together IMO, they have reasonable history behind them. A worthy coalition, I think that's what I meant.

LOL Winston hates the greens policys ...

Got to say if Shane jones was running Labour they'd be doing much better (and may even get my vote)...than the REAL rich prick Cunliffe that comes across very two faced at times...aka constantly ramping National as working for the Rich when old Labour policy's that National cut like LAQC >property write offs etc would have been a major kick to the rich .....

Cuzzie
17-03-2014, 09:18 AM
I'm not sure what I meant either, it was kind of a throwaway line. I watched the Winston Peters interview just now. He's pretty good at that.

It would appear though, that Winston is trying to get plenty of votes off National, he didn't bag Labour or the Greens, and he's not keen on the Maori Party or United Future. He looks like a natural partner for Labour.

Those three parties could work together IMO, they have reasonable history behind them. A worthy coalition, I think that's what I meant.
A natural partner for Labour, with one big problem - immigration. This has been Labours baby from the 70s and has helped turn NZ into a potpourri of peoples. Winston hates that and if he does go into a partnership with Labour, I would suspect that he will be chipping away at Labours great social experiment. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making comment on Winston Peters stating it is very wrong and he wants to change that. He makes no bones about it.

Here is how Labours social experiment is now affecting us 4 to 5 decades on: Official stats show that of 3.4 million NZ (3,373,000 actual) in 2010, a staggering 1.6 million (1,621,000 actual) were either immigrants or 1st generation NZers, meaning children of a migrant. Only 1.76 million(1,752,000 actual) adults were second generation NZers or longer.
Link is: http://nzdotstat.stats.govt.nz/wbos/index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLECODE7930# I've round up figures above to make it easier to understand. Now on my European side, I go back seven generations and the very first Europeans to arrive in NZ, so although I have no problem with any race, I side with Peters and he is more at home with National on this one.

So what's behind Labours drive for immigrants into NZ then? It is a well known fact that the left love power and want to make decisions for the good of everybody, right or wrong - their views not yours. That power comes from wealth and big business. Rich pricks like Cunliffe (thanks JB) and Clark are just puppets to bigger fish - way bigger fish. Oh yeah Labour want a bigger work force for NZ alright, but not NZers who are a generation old at least, but new immigrants. Cheap labor for big business, despite them wanting to up the min. wage, it will still be cheaper than what Kiwis demand. Labours min wage demands don't fool me, nor should they fool you. They are Globalists in the spirit of Cecil Rhodes who helped form the Commonwealth to break down boarders. Oh, the right support parts of globalization too, which is what we are seeing from National in the form of trading partnerships. The problem is what the left support which is the free movement of people. Look at the E.U right now. I can tell you is does not work. I was in Europe last year and was shocked just how much it has changed some counties identities. Marseille was like Mozambique in one quarter and then like Mascat in another. Don't get me wrong, I loved Marseille and it's multi-cultural society, but the French locals did not and that is my point. I know that has been going on for years in Marseille, but so has Globalization. Paradise lost there, paradise lost here - where will it stop? Can't answer that, but what I do know is we are here thanks to Labours great social experiment which we are all now very much a part of.

If Winston Peters does make a power gain to enter into a coalition government with Labour & the Greens, it will be for his own agendas and that will go down well with the Green Labour party - not.

Harvey Specter
17-03-2014, 10:05 AM
If Winston Peters does make a power gain to enter into a coalition government with Labour & the Greens, it will be for his own agendas and that will go down well with the Green Labour party - not. I cant see Winston going into coalition with the Greens so unless NZFirst has more pulling power than the Greens (unlikely since would be closer to 5% vs 10% respectively) then not going to happen.

elZorro
17-03-2014, 06:29 PM
A natural partner for Labour, with one big problem - immigration. This has been Labours baby from the 70s and has helped turn NZ into a potpourri of peoples. Winston hates that and if he does go into a partnership with Labour, I would suspect that he will be chipping away at Labours great social experiment. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making comment on Winston Peters stating it is very wrong and he wants to change that. He makes no bones about it.

Here is how Labours social experiment is now affecting us 4 to 5 decades on: Official stats show that of 3.4 million NZ (3,373,000 actual) in 2010, a staggering 1.6 million (1,621,000 actual) were either immigrants or 1st generation NZers, meaning children of a migrant. Only 1.76 million(1,752,000 actual) adults were second generation NZers or longer.
Link is: http://nzdotstat.stats.govt.nz/wbos/index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLECODE7930# I've round up figures above to make it easier to understand. Now on my European side, I go back seven generations and the very first Europeans to arrive in NZ, so although I have no problem with any race, I side with Peters and he is more at home with National on this one.

So what's behind Labours drive for immigrants into NZ then? It is a well known fact that the left love power and want to make decisions for the good of everybody, right or wrong - their views not yours. That power comes from wealth and big business. Rich pricks like Cunliffe (thanks JB) and Clark are just puppets to bigger fish - way bigger fish. Oh yeah Labour want a bigger work force for NZ alright, but not NZers who are a generation old at least, but new immigrants. Cheap labor for big business, despite them wanting to up the min. wage, it will still be cheaper than what Kiwis demand. Labours min wage demands don't fool me, nor should they fool you. They are Globalists in the spirit of Cecil Rhodes who helped form the Commonwealth to break down boarders. Oh, the right support parts of globalization too, which is what we are seeing from National in the form of trading partnerships. The problem is what the left support which is the free movement of people. Look at the E.U right now. I can tell you is does not work. I was in Europe last year and was shocked just how much it has changed some counties identities. Marseille was like Mozambique in one quarter and then like Mascat in another. Don't get me wrong, I loved Marseille and it's multi-cultural society, but the French locals did not and that is my point. I know that has been going on for years in Marseille, but so has Globalization. Paradise lost there, paradise lost here - where will it stop? Can't answer that, but what I do know is we are here thanks to Labours great social experiment which we are all now very much a part of.

If Winston Peters does make a power gain to enter into a coalition government with Labour & the Greens, it will be for his own agendas and that will go down well with the Green Labour party - not.

Cuzzie, I'm not sure how you came to these conclusions. The stats were of voting age people only, which does imply that many NZers go overseas for at least a portion of their lives, but we are now at about 4.4mill population total.

And then you attribute a lot of behaviour that belongs to the right, to Labour and the left. It's National that are always stingy with the minimum wage, look back over the years. Labour have been Globalists, but that was by stealth in part, from Roger Douglas. He did end up in ACT, so that says a lot. Helen Clark was never wealthy, and carefully steered us back from the excesses of globalism. Since they are not paid that well for the hours spent, sometimes it's good if politicians have independent means.

I think you'll find that big business owners are the ones who import immigrant labour in big numbers, it's not Labour policy. Sure we should improve our education services to match the new jobs out there, but what about the big numbers of unemployed and youths fit to work but without the necessary (relatively unskilled but well paid) positions available? Labour wants this sorted, National backers probably like to see downward pressure on wages. It's a completely different set of views.

Cuzzie
18-03-2014, 08:56 AM
EZ: Cuzzie, I'm not sure how you came to these conclusions.
Cuz: That's because you need to read with both eyes open.

EZ: The stats were of voting age people only.
Cuz: You are correct.

EZ: but we are now at about 4.4mill population total.
Cuz: Correct again, the latest stats were for Adults only and back in 2010 and there are not 4.4 million adults in our population today or 2010 is there. I would say there would be less Kiwis and more foreigners living in NZ now, wouldn't you EZ?

EZ: And then you attribute a lot of behavior that belongs to the right, to Labour and the left. It's National that are always stingy with the minimum wage, look back over the years.
Cuz: I'm not fooled by that at all. Labour want to increase the min wage I agree, but it will be the unemployable and the young who will miss out if that happens even more and the youth unemployment rates will go up. That looks great if you are in opposition. The other reason is even if you pump it up to $16 an hour, that's not enough for Kiwis to live off - you know that and I know that. New immigrants who live in large family groups can live very well of $14 to $16 an hour collectively and that keeps Labours social experiment running along just nicely. They are happy as are their employers.

EZ: Helen Clark was never wealthy.
Cuz: Tell that to the majority of Labour voters from the poorer regions of NZ.

EZ: I think you'll find that big business owners are the ones who import immigrant labour in big numbers, it's not Labour policy.
Cuz: Oh yes it is, tell that to Fisher & Payke and others that still moved off-shore after they could not compete even with plenty of cheap labor locally. We are loosing manufactures overseas because Labour relied too much on a plan that was doomed to fail. We can not compete in sectors that involve manual labor in big business based factories full stop. It's not the fault of Labour or National, it's just the state of things as they actually exist beyond our economic control. Don't fight it because you are wasting your time & money. My dad was a cobbler when cobblers were in demand. Try and manufacture shoes in NZ and run a business in doing it. Where is the great NZ brand "Bata Bullets" that has just got re-launched being manufactured? China of course. National don't fight this and have moved in the right directions with free trade. We specialise in what we are good at and buy goods we need at an unbeatable price. Common sense stuff right there. Third world nations get a better standard of living - In their own country, not ours. The left is all about opening up borders and mix all peoples together in the hope of increasing the standard of living for third world nations. Helen Clark is in her dream job doing just that right now. That will bring down the standard of living in NZ even for those who are already not so well off. That been said, "As useless as I think Winston Peters is, he is so right about stopping immigration as it is happening right now into NZ".

fungus pudding
18-03-2014, 09:22 AM
EZ: Cuzzie, I'm not sure how you came to these conclusions.
Cuz: That's because you need to read with both eyes open.

EZ: The stats were of voting age people only.
Cuz: You are correct.

EZ: but we are now at about 4.4mill population total.
Cuz: Correct again, the latest stats were for Adults only and back in 2010 and there are not 4.4 million adults in our population today or 2010 is there. I would say there would be less Kiwis and more foreigners living in NZ now, wouldn't you EZ?

EZ: And then you attribute a lot of behavior that belongs to the right, to Labour and the left. It's National that are always stingy with the minimum wage, look back over the years.
Cuz: I'm not fooled by that at all. Labour want to increase the min wage I agree, but it will be the unemployable and the young who will miss out if that happens even more and the youth unemployment rates will go up. That looks great if you are in opposition. The other reason is even if you pump it up to $16 an hour, that's not enough for Kiwis to live off - you know that and I know that. New immigrants who live in large family groups can live very well of $14 to $16 an hour collectively and that keeps Labours social experiment running along just nicely. They are happy as are their employers.

EZ: Helen Clark was never wealthy.
Cuz: Tell that to the majority of Labour voters from the poorer regions of NZ.



That's an interesting point. Both she and her husband were high salary people for many years. Their positions meant they would have avoided a lot of normal expenses, and they have no family. If she hasn't become wealthy then what was she doing wrong, and what gave her the idea she should be running NZ inc?

nextbigthing
18-03-2014, 11:28 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9839504/Labour-plunges-in-poll

craic
23-03-2014, 09:07 AM
So now we have the Pirelli man coming out with attention-seeking claims to the effect that he now has a sitting MP going over to his party and is in talks with two more. He refuses to name names, of course but that is just to maintain the press attention. Someone suggests that he is not really that size at all just six or seven stone bloated with hot air.

fungus pudding
23-03-2014, 09:12 AM
So now we have the Pirelli man coming out with attention-seeking claims to the effect that he now has a sitting MP going over to his party and is in talks with two more. He refuses to name names, of course but that is just to maintain the press attention. Someone suggests that he is not really that size at all just six or seven stone bloated with hot air.

Has he found enough members to register the party yet?

elZorro
23-03-2014, 11:43 AM
EZ: Cuzzie, I'm not sure how you came to these conclusions.
Cuz: That's because you need to read with both eyes open.

EZ: The stats were of voting age people only.
Cuz: You are correct.

EZ: but we are now at about 4.4mill population total.
Cuz: Correct again, the latest stats were for Adults only and back in 2010 and there are not 4.4 million adults in our population today or 2010 is there. I would say there would be less Kiwis and more foreigners living in NZ now, wouldn't you EZ?

EZ: And then you attribute a lot of behavior that belongs to the right, to Labour and the left. It's National that are always stingy with the minimum wage, look back over the years.
Cuz: I'm not fooled by that at all. Labour want to increase the min wage I agree, but it will be the unemployable and the young who will miss out if that happens even more and the youth unemployment rates will go up. That looks great if you are in opposition. The other reason is even if you pump it up to $16 an hour, that's not enough for Kiwis to live off - you know that and I know that. New immigrants who live in large family groups can live very well of $14 to $16 an hour collectively and that keeps Labours social experiment running along just nicely. They are happy as are their employers.

EZ: Helen Clark was never wealthy.
Cuz: Tell that to the majority of Labour voters from the poorer regions of NZ.

EZ: I think you'll find that big business owners are the ones who import immigrant labour in big numbers, it's not Labour policy.
Cuz: Oh yes it is, tell that to Fisher & Payke and others that still moved off-shore after they could not compete even with plenty of cheap labor locally. We are loosing manufactures overseas because Labour relied too much on a plan that was doomed to fail. We can not compete in sectors that involve manual labor in big business based factories full stop. It's not the fault of Labour or National, it's just the state of things as they actually exist beyond our economic control. Don't fight it because you are wasting your time & money. My dad was a cobbler when cobblers were in demand. Try and manufacture shoes in NZ and run a business in doing it. Where is the great NZ brand "Bata Bullets" that has just got re-launched being manufactured? China of course. National don't fight this and have moved in the right directions with free trade. We specialise in what we are good at and buy goods we need at an unbeatable price. Common sense stuff right there. Third world nations get a better standard of living - In their own country, not ours. The left is all about opening up borders and mix all peoples together in the hope of increasing the standard of living for third world nations. Helen Clark is in her dream job doing just that right now. That will bring down the standard of living in NZ even for those who are already not so well off. That been said, "As useless as I think Winston Peters is, he is so right about stopping immigration as it is happening right now into NZ".

Sorry I didn't see this earlier, Cuzzie. Some of your rebuttal I feel I can comment on:

Labour policy is certainly not to return NZ to having a bigger unskilled manufacturing base competing directly with overseas products, that is obvious if you just read their policies. In 2008, they started what I consider to be the well-thought-out R&D tax incentive scheme, after having spent a few million on the setup costs of documentation etc. While that paperwork may have been a bit OTT, the policy itself worked well, and would have been a very positive force in gearing up our SMEs towards more niche and highly valuable exports. Heaps of new provisional patents went through that year, and it cost hardly anything as a policy.

You cannot deny from where you are, that the private sector is a whole lot more efficient at picking up and running with market-led ideas than government departments or SOEs. Not to say that both don't have their place. But the private sector does need a push to collectively get off their backsides as far as R&D goes. No-one else can (or should) lead this incredibly important process except the govt, because any other mechanism will be too slow.

So when National got in and immediately scrapped the R&D credits in 2008, I knew that the manufacturing sector was in big trouble. Sure enough, look at the stats now, and you'll see that throwing a slightly reduced amount of millions of R&D grants at just a few bigger outfits (National picking winners) resulted in those firms automating plants or going overseas to produce the same goods at a cheaper price, while reducing their workforces per unit produced. Many smaller manufacturers continued to shed staff, or even go out of business. Well over 30,000 people were forced into other jobs or onto the dole since 2008, at a time when more jobs should have been created for a bigger workforce.

F&P are now owned by the Chinese firm Haier, but at least they have kept their word and are now doing a lot more R&D in NZ. Let's hope it lasts. But this is not a coup for National, the Chinese saw more potential than successive govts had, although you can argue that access to overseas markets and the knowledge of what those markets want, is very important.

F&P continues to be a showcase of the sort of work we must get involved in, here in NZ. If we can couple that work to products that we can profitably manufacture and export from here, we'll have the well-paid jobs and hi-tech manufacturing that we need going forward. That's the Labour policy, and they want every manufacturing SME in NZ to start thinking about that, the carrot being an easily accessed small percentage tax offset, to appeal directly to their owner-managers.

nextbigthing
02-04-2014, 04:08 PM
Ok which one of you was this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9896620/Ranting-man-cuts-Cunliffes-press-conference-short

fungus pudding
02-04-2014, 04:19 PM
Ok which one of you was this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9896620/Ranting-man-cuts-Cunliffes-press-conference-short

Shane Jones?

nextbigthing
06-04-2014, 07:43 PM
'cool'

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9910540/Internet-Party-Mana-explore-relationship

craic
15-04-2014, 07:35 AM
Judging by the posts on the last election on the "If National Wins" page and the lack of postings here I can only assume that Labour supporters are still expecting a re-count from that election? National did win and will probably win again but that will have little effect on all but the "New Poor" - people on less than $80,000 pa with only one car and only able to take one overseas holiday a year - and the rest of us will sigh and carry on enjoying the good life. As to F&P, I love the spin El Zorro puts on it. F&P are an iconic brand, up there with mince-and-cheese pies and the Chinese are canny enough to cater for people who would not buy a Chinese washing machine under any circumstances. But the Chinese get the profits, which is all they really want and we pay considerably more for the same gear than we would have paid had it been made in China to support employment of staff here, including my son who would have no difficulty getting other employment. In spite of staff discounts, he (my son) recently bought a piece of whiteware from M10 because it was cheaper.

BIRMANBOY
15-04-2014, 08:10 AM
EZ this has been said hundreds of times before but 10 minutes later you've forgotten and up you pop like the energizer bunny ...really buddy I don't know why you bother. Your ideas wont work...the world has moved on...NZ as a MFG base is always going to be non productive for the simple reason of cost of labour. Doesn't matter how much you yearn for the 'good ole days" of full or nearly full employment in every small town...Its past..its a shame you cannot move on..seems like a bit of a waste of your excellent skills of perseverance (albeit against insurmountable odds!!)
Sorry I didn't see this earlier, Cuzzie. Some of your rebuttal I feel I can comment on:

Labour policy is certainly not to return NZ to having a bigger unskilled manufacturing base competing directly with overseas products, that is obvious if you just read their policies. In 2008, they started what I consider to be the well-thought-out R&D tax incentive scheme, after having spent a few million on the setup costs of documentation etc. While that paperwork may have been a bit OTT, the policy itself worked well, and would have been a very positive force in gearing up our SMEs towards more niche and highly valuable exports. Heaps of new provisional patents went through that year, and it cost hardly anything as a policy.

You cannot deny from where you are, that the private sector is a whole lot more efficient at picking up and running with market-led ideas than government departments or SOEs. Not to say that both don't have their place. But the private sector does need a push to collectively get off their backsides as far as R&D goes. No-one else can (or should) lead this incredibly important process except the govt, because any other mechanism will be too slow.

So when National got in and immediately scrapped the R&D credits in 2008, I knew that the manufacturing sector was in big trouble. Sure enough, look at the stats now, and you'll see that throwing a slightly reduced amount of millions of R&D grants at just a few bigger outfits (National picking winners) resulted in those firms automating plants or going overseas to produce the same goods at a cheaper price, while reducing their workforces per unit produced. Many smaller manufacturers continued to shed staff, or even go out of business. Well over 30,000 people were forced into other jobs or onto the dole since 2008, at a time when more jobs should have been created for a bigger workforce.

F&P are now owned by the Chinese firm Haier, but at least they have kept their word and are now doing a lot more R&D in NZ. Let's hope it lasts. But this is not a coup for National, the Chinese saw more potential than successive govts had, although you can argue that access to overseas markets and the knowledge of what those markets want, is very important.

F&P continues to be a showcase of the sort of work we must get involved in, here in NZ. If we can couple that work to products that we can profitably manufacture and export from here, we'll have the well-paid jobs and hi-tech manufacturing that we need going forward. That's the Labour policy, and they want every manufacturing SME in NZ to start thinking about that, the carrot being an easily accessed small percentage tax offset, to appeal directly to their owner-managers.

craic
09-06-2014, 03:58 PM
So I won't have to pay trailer registration next year under Labour? - I don't pay under National. So I won't be able to drive my heavy truck in the fast lane? - I haven't got a heavy truck. This is really cutting edge politics. In an effort to remove myself from the mitherings of the demented left, I decided to post on this more relevant title - after all Labour lost four years or so ago - and found the remark on Labours transport policy under the auto saved button. Now I've forgotton what I came to post about, possibly because I am obsessed by the long trip to Auckland tomorrow and on to Brisbane on Wednesday for rest and relaxation and the celebration of our 50th wedding anniversary

karen1
09-06-2014, 04:35 PM
celebration of our 50th wedding anniversary

Congratulations craic, that's quite an achievement in this day and age. Enjoy your well earned r and r.

iceman
09-06-2014, 05:21 PM
Congratulations craic. That is one hell of an achievement, for your wife :)
Have a good one to Oz and enjoy your "Bundie" and an Irish drop or two. You deserve it.
Paint the town red (or green rather) mate and have a ball :)

elZorro
09-06-2014, 08:17 PM
Yes, well done Craic, all the best for your anniversary. Don't spend all your cash though, there's still a bet on.

Cheers.

craic
04-07-2014, 08:52 AM
Now for the prophets of doom - we see the nz dollar at record levels against the Aussie and American dollar Clear proof the the international experts have increased confidence in this land ant here is some evidence that this will be reflected in todays markets. I go out now to chop up a tree, mainly for the exercise and hope to come back to a profitable day with TEL. 4pm we are off to see the movie Calvary which may or may not reflect some of my childhood and teenage years. Tomorrow its off to the club for a few pints, a dollar or fifty on some four-legged speedsters and a light lunch. Maybe a stroll around the Warehouse on the way home to a roaring fire and a whisky or three. The Election? Well its on a saturday and Will be a repeat of today and tomorrow. The result? Well it doesnt matter that much - but it will affect the level of whisy in The bottle in the end but thats all.

craic
05-07-2014, 08:42 AM
Well, the movie Calvary was a very good piece of film making but it was set long after my time in Ireland. Today I see that the herald will profile David Cunliffe with the first half of his life story, with a second half later. This should boost his profile and give some hope to his followers. I wonder if Dotcom will have the same exposure - that could be interesting. And Maggie Barry groped by Rolf Harris? What is this world coming to. I hope my horses can run faster than the journalists if they stuff up the David Cunliffe story.

craic
07-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Well they did - my horses that is and now every time I open the newspaper there is someone else who was groped by Jake the Peg. Now if this is boring you I would like to suggest an intellectual discussion - well not very intellectual discussion - on who will be next to be outed. Could it be someone like Dotcom or the Pope or Prince Charles or maybe one of our great sportsmen? And possibly a Statute Of Limitations on complaints of this nature related to adult-on-adult offences. If someone accused you of such an act twenty-odd years ago, how would you prove that you didn't do it?

neopoleII
07-07-2014, 06:32 PM
""If someone accused you of such an act twenty-odd years ago, how would you prove that you didn't do it? ""

yes...... this is a big can of worms, and my missus and I have openly discussed this issue and sadly......
she has also disclosed to being a victim of this type of thing when she was a young lady..... and even more sad........
so have most of her female friends.
But its a discussion that is spoken amongst women privately and almost never to men.
To the point that its like a thing that women know about, talk about, advise about, ..... but only in the female world.
just like the venus and mars book.

I have to say, as a man........ I was quite shocked to learn that women talk about this stuff, yet hide it from men.
And its the Men that can solve this issue easily if its laid on the table!
So maybe.... as we grow older, more mature, more confident, the truth finally come out???
and with these times of new types of communication women are starting to express wrong doings........
is this right after many years of silence?
is this a Pandora's box of potential victimization?
or is it the beginning of better and stronger relationship values for our next generation.

What I do know is......... the days of women and wives being domestic servants and sexual playthings is over...... as it should be.
Having said that..... my missus loves the plaything, and I hate washing dishes.... so things are good.......