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ratkin
19-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Was wondering if any of you are running in the round the bays half marathon this weekend.
Never done one before, will be first attempt at the half.

Sideshow Bob
19-02-2014, 08:53 PM
Do a bit of running, but definitely a plodder. Done the Kepler the last couple of years - 2nd time 1 hour faster than the 1st, and lining up again this year hopefully.

Down the wrong end of the country for round the Bays.

Sideshow Bob
19-02-2014, 08:55 PM
But no jigging or jiggering....

couta1
19-02-2014, 09:03 PM
Was wondering if any of you are running in the round the bays half marathon this weekend.
Never done one before, will be first attempt at the half.
Good one ratkin,was a half marathon specialist when I was running,best advise start conservatively first 10k,pick it up if feeling good after that,drink plenty of water during few hours before race start oh and double knot your laces,have a good one

slimwin
19-02-2014, 09:05 PM
Flying up for it. Was meant to do the ten k but missus wants to do the walk. Ahh well, at least I can have a few on Sunday night now..

noodles
19-02-2014, 09:35 PM
I do some light jogging. It helps me reflect on my trading and what i need to do better.

ratkin
20-02-2014, 03:53 AM
Aim is to finish in under 2 hours, going to go at 5.40 per k pace for first 16 k then if anything left in tank try and pick it up.
biggest worry is if it a windy day. What's wellington weather like in the mornings usually.? Is it like chch where wind picks up in afternoon

couta1
20-02-2014, 06:23 AM
Aim is to finish in under 2 hours, going to go at 5.40 per k pace for first 16 k then if anything left in tank try and pick it up.
biggest worry is if it a windy day. What's wellington weather like in the mornings usually.? Is it like chch where wind picks up in afternoon
Sunday looks not too bad for wind at this stage with Sat and Mon being stroppy northerly days by the look,wind often picks up mid morning here that's if it hasn't been blowing all night in which case it often just continues

slimwin
20-02-2014, 08:24 AM
Northerly will be at you back on this route though. Should give you an extra 100 kph in Wlg!

Buffett Jr
20-02-2014, 08:41 AM
I do quite a lot of running, triathlon, etc. I'm doing the Coastal Challenge next weekend.

All the best with your first half marathon. Next will be the full one!

minimoke
20-02-2014, 07:37 PM
I'm a little league 5km every second night kind of person. Excellent for exorcising demons and justifying consumption of medicinal beverages

blackcap
20-02-2014, 09:00 PM
I'm a little league 5km every second night kind of person. Excellent for exorcising demons and justifying consumption of medicinal beverages

Haha minimoke, I run too so that I can drink. WEll not quite but sometimes. Have done a few half marathons in my time. Good luck Ratkin. Drink plenty before the race (just watch that you relieve some before as well otherwise you will have to stop halfway somewhere) and load up on carbs the night before and the morning of the race. (about 3 hours before you run). I like your attempt at 2 hours. Sounds like a good plan that you have. My best was 1 3/4 but am well off the pace at the moment. Didn't know this was on or I may have been joining you. Out on the turps tomorrow night so no way I will be in shape in time with a few 5km under the belt recently. Good luck to all who are participating.

couta1
20-02-2014, 10:28 PM
Is there a free bottle of wine for the fastest half run by a member on this forum,sorry BE you need not apply if your watching:cool:

ratkin
21-02-2014, 05:31 AM
Weather forecast for sunday looking a little better now , flying up saturday afternoon .At least missed the fog

Sideshow Bob
23-02-2014, 03:49 PM
How did it go?

ratkin
24-02-2014, 11:41 AM
How did it go?

Had a good run, took the first ten k easy then began to speed up , did it fairly easy until the 19th k when started to suffer a bit , but not as much as was expecting. Official time 2.03.57 , however see comment below and you will see in reality i did it in 2.00 . Was following the pace on my watch and thought i would finish in two , however what i didnt realise was they hadnt measured the course properly and it was nearer to 22 k was a bit annoyed about that. They also had the 6k walkers finishing at the same time , so last couple of k was held up by them a few times.
Oveeall happy with the run, shame they messed the distance up though


AMI Round the Bays
Hi Everyone, following up on peoples comments regarding the Half Marathon distance, we can confirm the official distance was 21.7km and not the standard 21.1km. This was due to incorrect placement of the turnaround point at the far end of the course. We would like to apologise to those trying to achieve PB’s.

The link provided can help you calculate the time that should have been achieved in 21.1km to a close accuracy to account for the extra 600m run. Hopefully you still had a great day out on the course and we promise to only make you run 21.1km in 2015

couta1
24-02-2014, 11:51 AM
Good on you ratkin,shame they stuffed up the measurement but this isn't the first time its happened at a big event in Wellington and is completely unacceptable,a few years ago they stuffed up the measurement for the half and 10k at the big June event run annually and let new course records stand (Course was short this time) we all knew it was short but the organizers didn't publicly acknowledge it,anyway take 3 days off running completely and enjoy plenty of sweeties in various forms(Food that is)

ratkin
24-02-2014, 04:25 PM
anyway take 3 days off running completely and enjoy plenty of sweeties in various forms(Food that is)

Lol , way too sore for the other kind.

slimwin
24-02-2014, 07:26 PM
Congrats fella. Never expect too much when a council organises something...

blackcap
24-02-2014, 07:42 PM
Well done Ratkin, nice feeling to complete a halfie huh! And your time is not too shabby. Don't try and knock too much off in one go but if you are going to train hard all year you should (depending on your age) be aiming for 1:45 to 1:50.

winner69
24-02-2014, 07:55 PM
Well done ratkin

Was a good day for it - pity about the extra 600 metres - if you had been keeping on eye on the watch as you approached the finish at the proper distance you would have pushed yourself hard and broken that 2 minutes eh

I leave these things to the June event .... might get wet and cold but that's better than the summer heat ... even for a 10k walk

Sideshow Bob
24-02-2014, 08:05 PM
Well done Ratkin, and good call Slimwim!

couta1
24-02-2014, 08:18 PM
Congrats fella. Never expect too much when a council organises something...
Only the 10k and half marathon were measured and certified by athletics wellington

JayRiggs
25-02-2014, 11:36 PM
Good stuff ratkin. 2hrs for your first half marathon is excellent!
I find it unbelievable how course organizers can stuff up the distance of running events, especially half marathons and marathons. People pay good money to enter and participate, we should expect no less than a professionally (or as close as possible) measured course. Anything less is unacceptable and inexcusable.
I did the ADRA 2012 half marathon and knew it was at least 500m short. Felt ripped off and robbed of a personal best.
And it was really disappointing how the half marathon at the Rotorua marathon last year was a few hundred metres too long, because someone forgot to update the traffic management plan, especially for such a big event like Rotorua.

Anyway, anyone doing the Rotorua marathon this year? Big 50th anniversary. I'm super excited about it and can't wait!

Joshuatree
26-02-2014, 08:34 AM
Awesome Ratkin ; long may you run.

My only experience of the Rotorua Marathon was many moons ago waiting 40 min on a wet cold day with a bottle of coke i had been shaking continually to give to my running bro at a particular point. When he got to me he gave me a little dismissive wave and left the coke. :confused: I could tell he was in an altered state, maybe the endorphins had kicked in. He hit a wall in the last few kms but finished and has run many since, last one being a hilly "Isle of Wight".

Ive taken up running again and got to re 1 hour 40 min. But progressively less since then as i get a niggle in my right leg just below the knee running down my leg. can't run through this ,once it starts i have to stop, Walking is fine but sometimes e.g. Tongariro crossing near the end i had to favour one leg going down steps and keep the weight off my right knee.

My question is should i go to a physio, Osteo or who to look at this? Another thought was doing leg strengthening exercises with weights etc. Appreciate any informed ideas , thanks.

couta1
26-02-2014, 06:28 PM
JT please explain your leg pain in a little more detail I may be able to help,is it a shooting type pain?how intense is it and how long does it take to go upon stopping etc

blobbles
07-03-2014, 02:55 PM
What is this jigging you speak of?

The only jigging I know is when you have a string of small hooks with lures and pull them up and down off the wharf!

I am a runner. A bit hard in China to run around but I manage. Luckily Kunming is a bit more green than the most Chinese cities so I have a few running trails in the surrounding mountains to utilise. At 1900m though its a noticeably oxygen limiting environment! This year I want to run the Tiger Leaping Gorge trail too which should be quite good. Have walked it once already so know the path well enough. If anyone wants to join, it will likely be me and another Australian hitting the trail around April/May/June! My Chinese is good enough (or should be by then) to sort everything out.

In Hong Kong at the moment, if you are visiting and are a runner (or someone that just enjoys a bit of space and sea views instead of being stuffed into a tiny room) I encourage you to stay out on Lamma Island. The island has big tails around it, one I did yesterday was a 13km run around the back of the island. Unfortunately the trail is all concreted, but the changing camber and slope means your knees don't get damaged like pounding away on the flat. Next time I will be hitting the big hill on the island I think as I have scoped out the trail with google earth that is off piste (in HK that means off concrete) and up a 400m hill. As a mountain/trail runner, I have some sort sick fascination with running up large hills! Anyway, off for a walk now on another one of the trails before I catch my flight back.

minimoke
09-11-2014, 06:50 PM
Was wondering if any of you are running in the round the bays half marathon this weekend.
Never done one before, will be first attempt at the half.
Did my first half today. No grand plans on a time. Simply wanted to finish as Im coming off an injury but did knock 20 minutes of the same distance a couple of weeks ago. Quite fun really except for the heat.

ratkin
09-11-2014, 08:12 PM
Did my first half today. No grand plans on a time. Simply wanted to finish as Im coming off an injury but did knock 20 minutes of the same distance a couple of weeks ago. Quite fun really except for the heat.

Well done, feels good afterwards. Keep it going, there are plenty of events to enter, and it a. Good way of seeing the country (and others). There are not many activities that are fun, and also good for you. The hard part is staying injury free

this time last year i struggled to run 10k have since run

wellington half
cirty to surf
christchurch half
race the train in wales
indian queens half in cornwall
crater rim run port hills
rail trail rampage
and today a rememberence run in Marizion Cornwall finishing at st michaels mount.

Have to fly back to NZ for the queenstown marathon in two weeks, my first. Sadly my mother died two weeks ago and had to fly to the UK so the training has been disrupted. Have a feeling its going to turn ugly!! Have yet to go further than 30k. Goal just to finish

Sideshow Bob
09-11-2014, 08:26 PM
Well done MM! 20 minutes is quite chunky, and hoped pleased with that.

Good luck for QT Ratkin, and hope it goes well dispute the training. Just take it easy early and keep hydrated/fed and sure will be a great event. Done bloody well in a year!

15kms yesterday and then 28km today across the hills, with 1,000 vertical. Doing the Kepler Challenge. This will be the 3rd time, but the training is getting me down.......

Sideshow Bob
09-11-2014, 08:27 PM
Still no jigging though!

minimoke
10-11-2014, 11:45 AM
The hard part is staying injury free you're right there. Tore a calf muscle 9 weeks ago and it really sets back the training


this time last year i struggled to run 10k have since run

wellington half
cirty to surf
christchurch half
race the train in wales
indian queens half in cornwall
crater rim run port hills
rail trail rampage
and today a rememberence run in Marizion Cornwall finishing at st michaels mount. thats quite the list. I might just stick to next year's christchurch half. Minus 2 degrees is much more to my liking than yesterday's 24.


Have to fly back to NZ for the queenstown marathon in two weeks, my first. Sadly my mother died two weeks ago and had to fly to the UK so the training has been disrupted. Have a feeling its going to turn ugly!! Have yet to go further than 30k. Goal just to finish condolences. Good luck with Queens town. Looks a nice track at a reasonable hour of the day

ratkin
10-11-2014, 05:26 PM
Well done MM! 20 minutes is quite chunky, and hoped pleased with that.

Good luck for QT Ratkin, and hope it goes well dispute the training. Just take it easy early and keep hydrated/fed and sure will be a great event. Done bloody well in a year!

15kms yesterday and then 28km today across the hills, with 1,000 vertical. Doing the Kepler Challenge. This will be the 3rd time, but the training is getting me down.......

kepler would be awesome , you must be super fit to try that one. There were some people training for that that did the 26 k rail trail rampage. When they crossed the finish line they, turned around and ran all the way back to the start. So they did 52k
Must admit the marathon training i found a little tedious, three hour training runs are longer than i enjoy. Once i have attempted queenstown am going to stick to half marathons

Crystal Ball
10-11-2014, 07:26 PM
Well done, feels good afterwards. Keep it going, there are plenty of events to enter, and it a. Good way of seeing the country (and others). There are not many activities that are fun, and also good for you. The hard part is staying injury free

this time last year i struggled to run 10k have since run

wellington half
cirty to surf
christchurch half
race the train in wales
indian queens half in cornwall
crater rim run port hills
rail trail rampage
and today a rememberence run in Marizion Cornwall finishing at st michaels mount.

Have to fly back to NZ for the queenstown marathon in two weeks, my first. Sadly my mother died two weeks ago and had to fly to the UK so the training has been disrupted. Have a feeling its going to turn ugly!! Have yet to go further than 30k. Goal just to finish
Hi Ratkin,
sorry to hear about your mum. Your training despite being disrupted should have you in good stead for the full marathon as the runs you have done in the last year is all good for building endurance.
i have done a couple of marathons and never did a run over 30 kms leading up to them. If you can do 30 k s , then the extra 12.195 kms are achievable. Make sure you hydrate really well the few days before and I found eating porridge which is slow release and foods such as bananas, yoghurt etc, a week or so before along with the obligatory pasta dishes and so on, should sustain you for thee big one. Lots of luck, the feeling when we cross the finish line is epic. Enjoy the moment ! :-)

Sideshow Bob
10-11-2014, 08:15 PM
kepler would be awesome , you must be super fit to try that one. There were some people training for that that did the 26 k rail trail rampage. When they crossed the finish line they, turned around and ran all the way back to the start. So they did 52k
Must admit the marathon training i found a little tedious, three hour training runs are longer than i enjoy. Once i have attempted queenstown am going to stick to half marathons

No, not super fit, just stoopid!

The thing with races like that is that is quite acceptable to walk! I would see walking in a marathon as a failure, but in the Kepler I will probably walk for 1 hr 20mins in the first 2 hrs, up the bulk of the climb. It is just about continual forward motion! Last year I averaged about 8 min/km and well in top half of the field. Only 2,200m vertical gain!

It is a great event, and big day out.

Yes the training is quite tedious and tiring, but do much of the training in the hills, off-road. Most recent weeks have been 1.5hrs Saturday and then 4 hrs Sunday, with no food and little water.

Have to do what you enjoy, but need to put some hard work in though to get the results. That said not enjoying being shattered from training. But put the headphones on and go off for a toddle...

Look forward to hearing how you go in Qtown.

Sorry for your loss. :-(

ratkin
11-11-2014, 04:56 PM
Thx guys, given me some optimism. My main worry is the jetlag, arrive back in NZ on the sunday and the run the next saturday, am going to have to try bpvery hard on the hydration front. May take in electrolyte powders during the flight even.

Interesting what you say about walking the Kepler. I noticed similar on the 30k crater rim run. It began with a steep 400 metre climb up the Rapaki track. I ran up, passing quite a few walkers. Pussies i thought. However within another 20k they had nearly all overtaken me, saving themselves that initial effort must really have helped them later on

Sideshow Bob
11-11-2014, 05:52 PM
There is a common saying in the Kepler is that the race begins at Iris Burn, the 2nd hut after the big climb, ups & downs and then a 1,000m sharp decent to Iris Burn Hut. From there it is about 31km to the finish and mainly flat.

The last two I've been nearer the back up the hill but passed plenty on the downhill and the flat to the finish.

Makes for a veeeerrrrrrrrryyyyyy long day if you go too hard too early!

If going for electrolytes, then the zero calorie ones are probably a good option.

David Hardman
12-11-2014, 10:54 AM
Good luck with your run Ratkin. Despite the training hiccups it looks like you are coming off a good base.

I'm doing the Queenstown Marathon next week as well. Did my last 33km run last weekend and now enjoying the taper!

Also got aspirations for the Kepler one day. I'd love to do some more off road stuff but its much harder to work into my training given I'm Sydney based. The Australian wildlife also gives me the heebie jeebies.

I'll see how I pull up after QT but I'll probably look to do the 6ft Track early next year. This is Australia's iconic off road race.

http://www.sixfoot.com/

Sideshow Bob
12-11-2014, 03:13 PM
That looks like a good race, and like the fact that it is overall downhill! You lose 200-odd metres! But still a substantial amount of uphill.

Having to meet the entry criteria would mean it would be quite competitive.

Good luck for QT!

ratkin
23-11-2014, 12:10 AM
Hurray!!
Finished the queenstown marathon, on what was a very testing day. Quite a few runners ended up with hyperthermia and a fair few dropped out. The wind and rain on the last ten k were pure evil

Luckily i chose to wear a thermal top, many didnt as the forecast was supposed to improve, instaed it got worse and worse.
I was suffering from an achilles/ heel injury all week and was worried it wouldnt hold out. Took it easy though and it held out.

Had a wobble between 28 and 32k but managed to pull it together and jog the last ten k home. A slow time of just under five hours, but the goal was just to finish and would have settled for that beforehand given the big disruption in the build up

minimoke
23-11-2014, 09:23 AM
Hurray!!
Finished the queenstown marathon, on what was a very testing day. Quite a few runners ended up with hyperthermia and a fair few dropped out. The wind and rain on the last ten k were pure evil

Luckily i chose to wear a thermal top, many didnt as the forecast was supposed to improve, instaed it got worse and worse.
I was suffering from an achilles/ heel injury all week and was worried it wouldnt hold out. Took it easy though and it held out.

Had a wobble between 28 and 32k but managed to pull it together and jog the last ten k home. A slow time of just under five hours, but the goal was just to finish and would have settled for that beforehand given the big disruption in the build up
Fantastic. From 10 km to a marathon in a year. What an achievement!. I can imagine the weather. We had a blustery NW blowing which changed to a very fresh SE in a matter of minutes dropping teh temperature 15 degrees - it must have been the front which you had run through. I went for a run yesterday afternoon and ended up with goose bumps - despite my layers of additional natural insulation, something I didn't have in the minus 2 Christchurch event this year. So you must have been very uncomfortable. You should feel very well satisfied with finishing - a huge achievement in itself I reckon

Sideshow Bob
23-11-2014, 02:23 PM
Well done Ratkin, and hope you had a well earned beverage to celebrate. Great achievement and should be proud. Now for the next one!! ;-)

Yes, I had my final big training run yesterday and the weather was pies! Had to almost swim off Swampy Summit and pleased to get home. But munted the legs, so recovery time.

David Hardman
24-11-2014, 10:09 AM
Nice work Ratkin. Good to get another under the belt.

Despite the weather it was a great event. I'd say within 5 years it will become the #1 marathon in NZ.

The start time/location was a bit annoying. Spending 1.5 hours before the race standing in the drizzle was not the ideal start to the day.

I had a rough day out. Was aiming for a 3:40 finish and was well on target until 32km. Struck down with leg cramps that I just could not shift. Spent the last 10km run/walking and came in a smidgen over 4 hours. Had great support from fellow runners with them handing out salt tablets, cramp spray (does that stuff work?) and coke. Even had a spectator spend 3-4mins rubbing me down trying to move the cramps! Nothing worked.

Looking back I did not hydrate enough. Did not take on any water/ade until the 21km mark. Silly.

The weather started to turn real nasty just after I finished. I would of been awful coming around the QT gardens at that point. I think I would've been a DNF if I had to run through that.

The course was promoted as "simply flat out"... Not sure about that. There were a couple of sneaky hills at testing points of the race.

ratkin
24-11-2014, 12:25 PM
Nice work Ratkin. Good to get another under the belt.

Despite the weather it was a great event. I'd say within 5 years it will become the #1 marathon in NZ.

The start time/location was a bit annoying. Spending 1.5 hours before the race standing in the drizzle was not the ideal start to the day.

I had a rough day out. Was aiming for a 3:40 finish and was well on target until 32km. Struck down with leg cramps that I just could not shift. Spent the last 10km run/walking and came in a smidgen over 4 hours. Had great support from fellow runners with them handing out salt tablets, cramp spray (does that stuff work?) and coke. Even had a spectator spend 3-4mins rubbing me down trying to move the cramps! Nothing worked.

Looking back I did not hydrate enough. Did not take on any water/ade until the 21km mark. Silly.

The weather started to turn real nasty just after I finished. I would of been awful coming around the QT gardens at that point. I think I would've been a DNF if I had to run through that.

The course was promoted as "simply flat out"... Not sure about that. There were a couple of sneaky hills at testing points of the race.
No wonder you cramped up, not taking any fluids in. I was taking a gel every 40 minutes and filling water bottle every 10k . You still beat me by nearly an hour though!!
We stayed in Arrowtown campsite (in a tent!!) Had the advantage of not having to go to the start until around 8am. You lucky to beat that weather alright, there were big branches coming down from Frankton till the finish, and they were a hazard, easy to trip over. The wind was unbelievable through that part. The good thing was the conditions were so bad that walking was not an option, just wanted out of there as fast as possible.
Will be back next year !!!

minimoke
24-11-2014, 12:33 PM
Boy, are we having fun yet? To make sure, I've signed up for the christchurch summer starter 10km "fun" run on Sunday. Weather forecast showers and south westerlies. And to add a bit of spice I'll aim for a PB. It's Also A Charity Run So If I Dont Succeed I'll Go Away knowing I've done my wee bit for surf lifesaving.

ratkin
24-11-2014, 02:06 PM
Boy, are we having fun yet? To make sure, I've signed up for the christchurch summer starter 10km "fun" run on Sunday. Weather forecast showers and south westerlies. And to add a bit of spice I'll aim for a PB. It's Also A Charity Run So If I Dont Succeed I'll Go Away knowing I've done my wee bit for surf lifesaving.

yep it should be fun, im in for that one, likely to be chaos at the start. Prams, kids , dogs, skateboarders etc .
The xmas 10k dash in hagley park is another good one, thats in a couple of weeks i think. Then there the 5k series on tuesday evenings to look forward to

Sideshow Bob
24-11-2014, 03:35 PM
Pre Race:



Must admit the marathon training i found a little tedious, three hour training runs are longer than i enjoy. Once i have attempted queenstown am going to stick to half marathons

2 days after the race.......



Will be back next year !!!

Brilliant!! Pain wearing off but the endorphins haven't!!

I said last year at the finish line of the Kepler, while having a lie down on the gravel, 0.01 metres over the finish line "Never EVER let me do that %$*&@$^ race again! Should have put an asterix on there * (................until next year). Seem to forget all the pain, training runs, injuries etc. They also have a cunning ploy that they give out 5, 10, 15, 20 year medals. So will be 60% of the way to the first....bugger.

Congrats DH and well done!!! Sounded like really had to gut it out at the finish, but probably a good/hard lesson learnt. Yeah I heard the weather came in heavy at about the 4 hour mark. I see they had a goal of 1,200 runners first year, but this years field was their 5 year goal!!

They did use to have a QT marathon, but folded about the time of the Le Race issues and the cost of traffic mgmt started to skyrocket. Also before a lot of the trails were there.

Might have to consider for next year....... :-)

minimoke
24-11-2014, 03:43 PM
yep it should be fun, im in for that one, likely to be chaos at the start. Prams, kids , dogs, skateboarders etc .
The xmas 10k dash in hagley park is another good one, thats in a couple of weeks i think. Then there the 5k series on tuesday evenings to look forward to

jeepers, Id have thought you would be too knackered to even look at anything for a while.I've still got blisters and bruises after my half.

I saw the Xmas 10km but also saw it's a Sri chimony run and i have an inbuilt bias and aversion to things Indian guru oriented. I did stumble across them one Sunday. I was going for a run in the park and came across their race. My track went through their finish line so I got lots of cheers. Perhaps I should be more open minded.

The 5 km look a bit of fun. I could just leave the hares to it and just enjoy a run at the end of the day.it would mean 15 km evening (getting there and back home) but I know north hagley well enough now to know the water stops.

David Hardman
24-11-2014, 04:19 PM
I saw the Xmas 10km but also saw it's a Sri chimony run and i have an inbuilt bias and aversion to things Indian guru oriented. I did stumble across them one Sunday. I was going for a run in the park and came across their race. My track went through their finish line so I got lots of cheers. Perhaps I should be more open minded.


The Sri Chinmoy races are fantastic events. I've done many of their runs and they have no religious/guru vibe to them whatsoever.

Hot breakfast (pancakes normally) served at the finish line!

minimoke
30-11-2014, 04:13 PM
Boy, are we having fun yet? To make sure, I've signed up for the christchurch summer starter 10km "fun" run on Sunday. Weather forecast showers and south westerlies. And to add a bit of spice I'll aim for a PB. It's Also A Charity Run So If I Dont Succeed I'll Go Away knowing I've done my wee bit for surf lifesaving.

Well that was fun. Only I decided to turn it into a half by turning round and running back to the car. A few lessons along the way. It wasn't a 10k just 9.8 but cant quibble for a fun run. Except I was running with a person on off most of the time and 200m out we both decided we were going to get across the line before the other - ended up a dead tie. But found I still had another hundred meters or so to to go to hit my 10k PB target. I got there with 1 minute off my previous PB and 3 minutes off my 10 k split at the Selwyn half. Trouble was now I was busting for the loo and the queue for the porta loo wasn't moving. So I headed back out and found a bush. Lesson one - probably not a good idea to throw in a 400m Sprint at the half way mark.

All good until the bridges where it was all one way traffic and I was against the tide - lost a lot of time here navigating through it all. Figured I was the one to give way since it was their run. Lost 5 minutes due to loo and bridges so my 15 km split was the same as last time. Lesson 2 - I thought I had I had an alternative track planned but didn't work out.

Thigh then starts to cramp (lesson 3 - may be due to the sprint) so had to have a wee walk but by 20km was one minute up and by the end 2 minutes better than Selwyn.

So all in I'm reasonable pleased especially since its only my third organised run since high school.

Im blowed if I know how you folks do your marathons - I've got blisters on blisters now!

ratkin
01-12-2014, 02:26 PM
That sounded chaotic. Good effort running back again . Hope you will recover in time for the proper 10 k The xmas dash in the park

http://nz.srichinmoyraces.org/christmas-dash-10km-and-childrens-33km-self-transcendence-races

minimoke
01-12-2014, 07:56 PM
That sounded chaotic. Good effort running back again . Hope you will recover in time for the proper 10 k The xmas dash in the park

http://nz.srichinmoyraces.org/christmas-dash-10km-and-childrens-33km-self-transcendence-races only chaotic for folks goIng the wrong way. All up good fun for all since it was a nice morning. By the time i got pack to the 5km mark there were still people walking so a good event for everyone of all ability.

I think I'll hold DH to the pancakes - who could resist? I reckon the thigh will have loosened up by Wednesday, if not I'll hit the pavement again regardles so should be Ok Sunday week.

Sideshow Bob
06-12-2014, 03:59 PM
Kepler Day. Cool conditions, and windy across the tops and but quite warm in the forest. Took about 4hrs 2mins to get to Iris Burn, 8 mins faster than last year, but all that had gone by the time got to Rainbow Reach, and 1 min behind last year. Last 10 km were rugged and finished a fraction over 8 hrs and 6mins slower than last year. Bit gutted, but gave it everything and broken at the finish. Buried myself and couldn't have gone faster on the day.

Last year flew from halfway, so this year probably shows how good that was. Really disappointed not to better last year with a lot of hard work, but in the top half of the field, and improved 50 places from Luxmore Hut (after the major climb) until the end.

Think day or two it will fade, but gutted just missing sub 8hrs. Think will look to do something else next year.

Martin Dent who broke the race record last year (4hrs 33min for 60km with 2'200 metres of vertical - INCREDIBLE!). He won this year in about 4hrs 51min but was throwing up at the finish and needed medical attention.

ratkin
06-12-2014, 06:15 PM
Kepler Day. Cool conditions, and windy across the tops and but quite warm in the forest. Took about 4hrs 2mins to get to Iris Burn, 8 mins faster than last year, but all that had gone by the time got to Rainbow Reach, and 1 min behind last year. Last 10 km were rugged and finished a fraction over 8 hrs and 6mins slower than last year. Bit gutted, but gave it everything and broken at the finish. Buried myself and couldn't have gone faster on the day.

Last year flew from halfway, so this year probably shows how good that was. Really disappointed not to better last year with a lot of hard work, but in the top half of the field, and improved 50 places from Luxmore Hut (after the major climb) until the end.

Think day or two it will fade, but gutted just missing sub 8hrs. Think will look to do something else next year.

Martin Dent who broke the race record last year (4hrs 33min for 60km with 2'200 metres of vertical - INCREDIBLE!). He won this year in about 4hrs 51min but was throwing up at the finish and needed medical attention.

Awesome effort, do you think it was slower for everyone this year? what with the winner being 20 min slower

minimoke
07-12-2014, 09:33 AM
Kepler Day. Cool conditions, and windy across the tops and but quite warm in the forest. Took about 4hrs 2mins to get to Iris Burn, 8 mins faster than last year, but all that had gone by the time got to Rainbow Reach, and 1 min behind last year. Last 10 km were rugged and finished a fraction over 8 hrs and 6mins slower than last year. Bit gutted, but gave it everything and broken at the finish. Buried myself and couldn't have gone faster on the day.
That is still an inspiring effort. I'm sure you are gutted with the time but it sounds like you gave it your all (which is an outstanding amount!) and appears the weather on the tops conspired against you. I suppose one way of looking at it is if the winner was 20 minutes off over 4:33 hours you'de expect around 40 minute difference with your previous time given the same conditions.

Banking on less wind on the tops, a sightly cooler forest and I reckon you'll figure you'll find 6 minutes next year.

Sideshow Bob
07-12-2014, 05:28 PM
Thanks MM & Ratkin! :-)

I think the winner had less competition and knew where he was going this year, perhaps like me not such a good day, a little on the conditions etc etc! Last year he didn't know the course and never run more than 42km. Martin Dent however did end up throwing up at the end, then an hour of first aid and then to a doctor.

This year I was 11 places behind last year, so times/places are about the same. Just think I was being a bit hard on myself and 8:01 just grates vs 7:59. Was just on track for faster time, but just couldn't close it out....

Maybe it will burn during the summer and be back again next year.......(they are cunning as have 5 year, 10 year, 15 year etc medals, so this was my 3rd, so if do it next year then will definitely have to be back for the 5th!)

ratkin
14-12-2014, 11:03 AM
PB today in sri chinmoy 10k in hagley park 48.04. First decent hitout since the marathon. Was surprised at the low turnout, lesss than 100 entries, made nice change from overcrowded fields though

minimoke
14-12-2014, 01:00 PM
PB today in sri chinmoy 10k in hagley park 48.04. First decent hitout since the marathon. Was surprised at the low turnout, lesss than 100 entries, made nice change from overcrowded fields though
And a PB for me coming in at less than 55 which is something I didn't think I would see. Nice breakfast DH!

ratkin
14-12-2014, 05:46 PM
And a PB for me coming in at less than 55 which is something I didn't think I would see. Nice breakfast DH!

Oh didnt realise you were there or would have said hello Good to have a small field, wasnt too slowed down at the start Had a drink of Chai, thought it was their word for tea, dont know whats in it but was quite tasty

minimoke
14-12-2014, 08:37 PM
Oh didnt realise you were there or would have said hello Good to have a small field, wasnt too slowed down at the start Had a drink of Chai, thought it was their word for tea, dont know whats in it but was quite tastynext time then.
I enjoyed It and will aim to be at next one late Jan. Now time to try the asics 5k series for something in the evenings.

ratkin
15-12-2014, 02:24 PM
next time then.
I enjoyed It and will aim to be at next one late Jan. Now time to try the asics 5k series for something in the evenings.

The cavalry charge that is the 5k series Good fun though ,especially when the weathers good. The start is absolutely mad, normally someone is tripped up and trampled half to death (slight exaggeration, but not much)

Sideshow Bob
16-12-2014, 01:43 PM
First run since the Kepler today. Flat 7.5km in just under 40mins. Was going along OK, but after 25 mins heart rate got a little high and struggled the rest of the way back.

Normally takes me ages to recover.

minimoke
16-12-2014, 08:18 PM
The cavalry charge that is the 5k series Good fun though ,especially when the weathers good. The start is absolutely mad, normally someone is tripped up and trampled half to death (slight exaggeration, but not much)
Not much chance of me getting trampled. I've learnt already to not be at the start so I'm less likely to be tripped - but teh photo on theri website makes the start look like madness.

minimoke
16-12-2014, 08:31 PM
I think its time to consolidate.

I started off with Nike+ on my phone and since logged 230 runs and 1,600km.

Then in june I got a TomTom runner and heart rate monitor - got to love those gadgets and data.

TomTom uploads data to TomTom My Sports, RunKeeper, MapMyFitness and Strava. I've got most of my Nike data on these apps.

Then the other day I found Endmondo.

So I have loads of data on loads of different free apps, all of which have their own websites and android phone apps.

I'd like to bin Nike+, but only because I have to get that started as well as my watch at the start of a run. One gadget would be nice. But it is on my phone which I take with me on runs. Something I'm inclined to do since I learnt when I tore my calf muscle its quite handy to call a ride home. I also like that it tracks my shoe distances and often records the temperature.

So if I was to buy a subscription to one App which would it be?

minimoke
16-12-2014, 08:56 PM
Normally takes me ages to recover.
I'm not surprised!

I'm just checking out the next Sri Chinmoy run and it looks like a toughie.

You start at the western end of lake victoria and on a good day you can just make out its far bank this side of the horizon.

After a savage descent you have to traverse Lake Albert which is prone to flooding in heavy rain - so be prepared for some gruelling swamp running.

Heading east you have a savage 1m climb before hitting the banks of the mighty Avon. Then north for a winding trail run beside these torid waters.

Then you leave the river for a forest run where you are bombarded by the sound of local nature.

Final turn and descent is on a fast track but its hazardous with the risk of low flying white objects

And it three times around!

Sideshow Bob
17-12-2014, 08:13 PM
Haha. Love it!

ratkin
29-12-2014, 07:12 PM
I think its time to consolidate.

I started off with Nike+ on my phone and since logged 230 runs and 1,600km.

Then in june I got a TomTom runner and heart rate monitor - got to love those gadgets and data.

TomTom uploads data to TomTom My Sports, RunKeeper, MapMyFitness and Strava. I've got most of my Nike data on these apps.

Then the other day I found Endmondo.

So I have loads of data on loads of different free apps, all of which have their own websites and android phone apps.

I'd like to bin Nike+, but only because I have to get that started as well as my watch at the start of a run. One gadget would be nice. But it is on my phone which I take with me on runs. Something I'm inclined to do since I learnt when I tore my calf muscle its quite handy to call a ride home. I also like that it tracks my shoe distances and often records the temperature.

So if I was to buy a subscription to one App which would it be?

i use runkeeper app but they all pretty much the same. used to take the phone and use the app on the hoof, now like yourself. i have a tom tom runner which does the job.
One of the pins on myconnector broke recently, but was surprised when tom tom replaced it for free, so they in mygood books at the moment.
First cavalry charge next week around hagley.

I have signed up for my next marathon , Rotoroa on may 2nd, am using training method , run less run faster less runs but tougher ones

minimoke
31-12-2014, 12:55 PM
i use runkeeper app but they all pretty much the same. used to take the phone and use the app on the hoof, now like yourself. i have a tom tom runner which does the job.
I've settled on Runkeeper being my back up. Just discovered a shoe tracker for it the other day which was something I was after. Its got all my runs from june 2013 on it so worth keeping. Trouble I find with Runkeeper is it is very slow to load on an android phone - so slow its next to useless. Strava is going to be my main tool

One of the pins on myconnector broke recently, but was surprised when tom tom replaced it for free, so they in mygood books at the moment. I had troubles with the Androud app when it was first released and their customer service was excellent. Overall I'm very pleased with this piece of kit as it gives me loads of information. If only it could give me that extra boost on a hot day!


First cavalry charge next week around hagley. reminded me - i must sign up. I'l miss one but ill start off next weeks with an iffy archilles - no chance of me being the stomped on


I have signed up for my next marathon , Rotoroa on may 2nd, am using training method , run less run faster less runs but tougher onesand my Christchurch Marathon email arrived the other day. I'll sign up for the half this year - sticking with the RealBuzz training plans and hopefully will avoid a torn muscle this time around. The local event calender seems to offer enough events to keep me focused until then. Three halfs planned for the year, Christchurch, Mt Lyford and Selwyn - keeping it local!

ratkin
31-12-2014, 05:12 PM
Three halfs planned for the year, Christchurch, Mt Lyford and Selwyn - keeping it local!

Another really good one in sept/oct is the rail trail rampage starting at motukarara to little river. slightly longer than a hlf at 24k very easy trail to run on

David Hardman
02-01-2015, 01:16 PM
I did not secure a start in the 6ft track. After my poor showing (cramps!) in the QT marathon I wasn't convinced the timing was right.

Planning for 3 marathons this year - Canberra (April), Gold Coast (July) and Sydney (Sep).

Training will start in earnest tomorrow with a 5km Park Run!

I just use RunKeeper and my iPhone. I'd like to get a dedicated GPS watch and leave the phone and home but I need to carry a phone for work.

ratkin
07-01-2015, 06:43 PM
22.32 for the first run in 5k series hagley park 9 seconds off last seasons pb. Good turnout of around three hundred. Great fun

Sideshow Bob
07-01-2015, 07:33 PM
Good work Ratkin! PB's always good.

Last year was 1,053km, 27,253 metres vertical, and 91,885 calories burnt......

minimoke
07-01-2015, 07:43 PM
22.32 for the first run in 5k series hagley park 9 seconds off last seasons pb. Good turnout of around three hundred. Great fun25:55 for me. I see what you mean by the charge. Had to dodge the person who dropped her phone in pieces's on the path. I don't think she got trampled but the remnants of her device probably did.

ratkin
08-01-2015, 05:00 AM
Wait until next week , there will probably be twice as many. Last lap was suffering, quite tiring having to run around the walkers, walking four abreast and taking up the entire path.

minimoke
13-01-2015, 08:40 PM
After a 16k run on Sunday and 5 yesterday I thought I'd be a bit tired tonight. Managed 25'45" a new PB for me. Pretty happy when I look back at this time last year the most I could run was 3.6 k at a 6.06 pace. A minute faster and a whole lot further.

Not a bad turn out tonight given it was cooler and overcast.

I'm supposed to be packing the house to move out on Sunday but might just sneak out and give the Sri chimony 10 k another go

ratkin
14-01-2015, 05:45 AM
After a 16k run on Sunday and 5 yesterday I thought I'd be a bit tired tonight. Managed 25'45" a new PB for me. Pretty happy when I look back at this time last year the most I could run was 3.6 k at a 6.06 pace. A minute faster and a whole lot further.

Not a bad turn out tonight given it was cooler and overcast.

I'm supposed to be packing the house to move out on Sunday but might just sneak out and give the Sri chimony 10 k another go

Good effort, great improvement over the year.You really have the bug now
I too a PB last night, beat the old one by a massive 24 seconds. Im wondering if that tail wind down the long stright made a big difference last night, the cooler conditions were a help too. Think i will struggle to beat that again. Knew i had chance when man with the watch said 4.11 when i went past 1k

blackcap
14-01-2015, 07:29 AM
Good effort, great improvement over the year.You really have the bug now
I too a PB last night, beat the old one by a massive 24 seconds. Im wondering if that tail wind down the long stright made a big difference last night, the cooler conditions were a help too. Think i will struggle to beat that again. Knew i had chance when man with the watch said 4.11 when i went past 1k

Hey runners. I have registered for the park run in my local area. what a great concept. But this year have also just signed up to do the Rotorua Marathon. Never done one before, have done a few half marathons (circa 1hr 45 min) and am starting to get excited but also apprehensive. 3 and a half months to go... surely enough time to train?
Anyone done the Rotorua one before and anyone have any tips.

ratkin
14-01-2015, 11:41 AM
Hey runners. I have registered for the park run in my local area. what a great concept. But this year have also just signed up to do the Rotorua Marathon. Never done one before, have done a few half marathons (circa 1hr 45 min) and am starting to get excited but also apprehensive. 3 and a half months to go... surely enough time to train?
Anyone done the Rotorua one before and anyone have any tips.

See you there :-) What training plan are you following? You really need to start this week or next.

I am doing this one from a book by
joe henderson called Marathon training a 100 day program to your best race.
The 100 days start from next monday

I would recommend that for you it is not too heavy and will get you to the startline, reasonably prepared for around 4 hours to 4. 30. I can post your weekly schedules here if you like. Order te book from awesome books , second hand copires only a few pounds.

It has three plans including one for first time marathon. Your schedule for next week when it starts is 3 or 4 easy runs during the week of between 30 and 45 minutes. And a weekend long slow run of 20 to 22k walking if need to

https://www.awesomebooks.com/book/9780880115919/marathon-training-the-proven-100-day-program-for-success/?c=3

It only. 2.49 pounds or around 5 dollars, think it free postage too
think tht the first edition one , i have an updated second edition, dont know what the difference is

ratkin
16-01-2015, 04:08 PM
Here is a copy of my schedule for training for Rotorua marathon. I have just included the Sundays which are for the long runs. Do you guys think this sounds like a reasonable plan?

6676

It has increasingly long, long slow runs, with shorter (races in between)
Midweeks are all pretty much the same
Tuesday speed work (around 5k total)
wednesday easy 30-45m
thursday easy 30-45 min
Friday easy 30-45 min

monday and saturday off

blackcap
16-01-2015, 04:22 PM
Cheers for that Ratkin :). Good to see another sharetrader formite there as well:) I am running with a friend and we are going to train together. yes we are starting training pretty much from now. The training schedule I am following is this PDF...

http://res.nz.eventdirector.net/ROTOM/SITES/200/ZUSER/Lion%20Foundation%20Rotorua%20Marathon%20Training% 20Programme%202010.pdf

This is a bit more varied with less running and more alternative type events but I see that is does have increasingly long slow runs. We are planning to run them on the Sunday and then follow the program but I am substituting fartleks for badminton which I do not want to give up.
We are doing the WEllington round the bays half marathon in Feb and the Levin Forets Half marathon as part of the long slow runs training.

Do you really think I should be prepared for 4 hours or more? I do a half in 1:45 and have done 28km at that pace in the past pretty much pulled out of my bottom so to speak. But you have obviously done these things and I am a bit apprehensive as I know the Rotorua one has hills in it as well. Getting really excited though as it will be the first marathon for the both of us.

Thanks for the links, I will have a look when I have some more time tomorrow. As to your schedule, it looks ok, I think similar to what we are doing as far as the long runs are concerned. Have a look at the pdf I have posted and see what you think.

ratkin
16-01-2015, 06:07 PM
Cheers for that Ratkin :). Good to see another sharetrader formite there as well:) I am running with a friend and we are going to train together. yes we are starting training pretty much from now. The training schedule I am following is this PDF...

http://res.nz.eventdirector.net/ROTOM/SITES/200/ZUSER/Lion%20Foundation%20Rotorua%20Marathon%20Training% 20Programme%202010.pdf

This is a bit more varied with less running and more alternative type events but I see that is does have increasingly long slow runs. We are planning to run them on the Sunday and then follow the program but I am substituting fartleks for badminton which I do not want to give up.
We are doing the WEllington round the bays half marathon in Feb and the Levin Forets Half marathon as part of the long slow runs training.

Do you really think I should be prepared for 4 hours or more? I do a half in 1:45 and have done 28km at that pace in the past pretty much pulled out of my bottom so to speak. But you have obviously done these things and I am a bit apprehensive as I know the Rotorua one has hills in it as well. Getting really excited though as it will be the first marathon for the both of us.

Thanks for the links, I will have a look when I have some more time tomorrow. As to your schedule, it looks ok, I think similar to what we are doing as far as the long runs are concerned. Have a look at the pdf I have posted and see what you think.

Well i have only done one Marathon. I normally do my halves 1.50-1.55 and was expecting to take around 4.15 in queenstwn. In the end it was nearly 5 hours !! The weather was terrible, started walking around 32 k (2 k further than longest run) Pulled it together to jog the last 6k

Marathon is different than everything else, its not like doing two halves , the real halfway is about 30k. Having said that my training was interupted bigtime, and i wasnt bothered about a time , just wanted to finish.

My advice would be just enjoy it, dont worry about a time, there more chance you will have a bad time and not want to try another, if you conk out from going to fast

I had unexpected things happen, like wearing the wrong underpants (too loose) and realising the next day all my skin had been rubbed off, very painful!! Plus my big toe nail fell off and hasnt grown back since!!

It all good fun though, and the fact i signed up for another so quick tells you something.

Looks quite a hardcore program your doing, should be well prepared if you stick to that. Didnt like the bit about Rotorua being Hilly!! although in some ways that easier as use different muscles on hills. Stops it getting too monotomous

blackcap
16-01-2015, 08:23 PM
Well i have only done one Marathon. I normally do my halves 1.50-1.55 and was expecting to take around 4.15 in queenstwn. In the end it was nearly 5 hours !! The weather was terrible, started walking around 32 k (2 k further than longest run) Pulled it together to jog the last 6k

Marathon is different than everything else, its not like doing two halves , the real halfway is about 30k. Having said that my training was interupted bigtime, and i wasnt bothered about a time , just wanted to finish.

My advice would be just enjoy it, dont worry about a time, there more chance you will have a bad time and not want to try another, if you conk out from going to fast

I had unexpected things happen, like wearing the wrong underpants (too loose) and realising the next day all my skin had been rubbed off, very painful!! Plus my big toe nail fell off and hasnt grown back since!!

It all good fun though, and the fact i signed up for another so quick tells you something.

Looks quite a hardcore program your doing, should be well prepared if you stick to that. Didnt like the bit about Rotorua being Hilly!! although in some ways that easier as use different muscles on hills. Stops it getting too monotomous

Thanks for that Ratkin. I will make sure I have the correct undies on (or maybe commando is a better option?) and yes I have been tramping recently so I think my toes and feet will be ok. Ok I see what you mean about Queenstown, and if you had to walk at the 32km mark.... I feel confident though as my 28km was not too hard from memory so I am hoping not to hit that wall too soon.

I do not think the hills are too bad for Rotorua, like you say its something different. But you may want to incorporate some hill work into your training somewhere so that you will be ready for them when you hit them.

Good on you for signing up again so quickly, I have heard good things about the Rotorua marathon and am really looking forward to it although naturally a bit apprehensive.

Sideshow Bob
17-01-2015, 08:26 AM
Well done on taking on Rotorua! I’ve been cruising for the last little bit and recovering from the Kepler, slowly getting into more running, but also a bit of mountain biking and Christmas festivities. Have to think about some goals…..

OK, I’ve never done a marathon as such, but have done a marathon in training (!!), and 3 x Kepler as well as a couple of 12hr solo mountain bike races. I’m definitely no expert, but have a few random thoughts and things that I’ve found good, and worthwhile.

• Don’t be a slave to the programme. There are going to be days when sick, can’t be bothered, busy at work etc. Consider taking a rest day, doing a different run or do something different.

• Rest days are training also.

• If unsure about training, find a coach. There are guys who do training programmes for Joe Schmuck’s like me, and especially if first-timing, can be very worthwhile. My guy got me around the Kepler (60km) with 6 weeks training (including 10 days with no training with me getting sick). Pay a lot of money to get to Rotorua/Queenstown with travel, accommodation etc and put a truckload of effort in for training, and could make a big difference. A coach will be able to help with your training zones, especially if using a heart rate monitor but just answering any questions and giving reassurance. Obviously more personalised.

Presume there are also some intervals, shorter faster runs Ratkin? Need some pace in there, as otherwise do you just end up learning to run long/slow?

• Consider doing long runs in the early morning, with minimal food/water, and little/no breakfast. Makes your body create own energy and when actually add food, then have 2 sources of energy. Just get slower and slower and pretty tough but build up as the runs get longer.

• Eat within 30 minutes of finishing a workout, but generally sooner the better.

• Flavoured milk is a great after-training recovery food. Protein & carbohydrates – but at no other time!

• Great to have runs with other people, like Ratkin’s Sri Chimnoy or the parklife runs. The park ones would be good as consistent course and give you an idea of how you are going. Not every week, but hit it hard say at the start of your programme and then nearer the end to see any improvement.

• Shoes are huge – find a brand and model that works for you, and the easiest way is to stay with that particular shoe. Most companies update the models every year, but the core construction/properties stays the same.

• Two pairs of shoes at once allows shoes to rest/dry and rotate them between runs.

• Run off-road when able to, and also some hills – especially if in the race.

• Don’t necessarily become a slave to the Garmin – run how you feel.

• As well as stretching, buy a foam roller. Sure there will be something on You Tube in how to use it. Hurts like $%&# the first few times. Use particularly for quads, ITB and calves. Something to do in front of the TV. If you need some help with stretches, see a good physio.

• Put in some strength/core exercises – squats, lunges, planks etc. Don’t need a gym, but just some light weights, a mat and a Swiss ball. Definitely helps with avoiding soreness but also things like glutes and ITB can start to give you gip late in a tough run.

• http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/10-essential-strength-exercises-for-runners?page=single

• http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/12-habits-of-highly-motivated-runners

• As above, if on Facebook sign up with runners world – have some good articles daily (if a little repetitious). Also good info on their website, in bite-size chunks. Also have some more headline grabbing articles – like “how to run a marathon training 3 days a week”.

• Keep a record of your training. Easy if using a Garmin etc, but also put in comments about how you feel etc.

• Last big long run should have all your planned race gear. Sock, undies, shoes etc. Start running at the time when you are going to race, get up when you are going to get up, eat what you are going to eat etc etc. See what works and what doesn’t. Good socks and chafe cream.

• Nails grow back eventually. (Ratkin – my big one took about 9 months after the 2013 Kepler, but black again after December's race....).

• If running a marathon really pay attention to nutrition and when/how going to eat and drink through the race. Need about 60g of carbohydrate per hour, and for example a Gel is about 25g, as is a banana. Will get some carbohydrates through the Leppin also, but need to thing how to keep this going – can’t wait until it is too late. Something that needs to be practised. Again, a coach would be able to help, as might be able to do a nutrition plan, or work with a dietician. (Kepler have to carry compulsory gear which generally necessitates a backpack so carry gels with you and also a bladder/bottle. This year there was Christmas cake at one of the aid stations).

• Consider walking through drink stations. What is more important – another couple hundreds ml’s of water to prevent dehydration or the 5 secs it will save in keeping running. I end up with most of the water over me when running and trying to drink from a cup. Take it slow out of the station to build up the rhythm.

You'll learn what works and what doesn't along the way......but a great goal to work to!

David Hardman
17-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Great post Sideshow. How about this for your next ultra - http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/372247/the-roughest-toughest-race-in-the-world

Ratkin - Your training schedule looks good but I'm surprised your taper is 4 weeks long. On race day it will be 1 month since your last 32km effort. Mentally this could be a challenge. It will feel like an age since you ran any real distance. Most tapers are 2-3 weeks.

blackcap
17-01-2015, 01:56 PM
Thanks for that Sideshow. You raise some very good points. About nutrition as well that I was unaware of. Always ran a half marathon on nothing. But yeah a full one you will obviously need to take some on board.
Appreciate the depth of your post. Cheers.

Sideshow Bob
17-01-2015, 09:38 PM
DH - only 14 people have ever finished? WTF!! I think the Northburn 100 miler it was about 8,000 metres climbing! A friend of mine did it in something like 42 hours.......

Yes, I thought that on Ratkin's programme - but feel not placed to comment on specifics. As an example my big run was 2 weeks pre Kepler. Which I think was probably too close in, and should have been 3 weeks. That ended up being a marathon....with some climbing in it.

blackcap if you like PM me with an email address and will send you some of the nutritional info I have. Some good ideas for what to eat and how much, and also morning of.

David Hardman
18-01-2015, 11:01 AM
DH - only 14 people have ever finished? WTF!! I think the Northburn 100 miler it was about 8,000 metres climbing! A friend of mine did it in something like 42 hours.......


Ultra's fascinate me but I'm not sure I'll ever do one. Watched another indie movie last night on the Badwater Ultra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEuWGCq5pc

130miles in 27 hours! By the end of the movie I wanted to punch the camera man in the head. An amazing story nevertheless.



Yes, I thought that on Ratkin's programme - but feel not placed to comment on specifics. As an example my big run was 2 weeks pre Kepler. Which I think was probably too close in, and should have been 3 weeks. That ended up being a marathon....with some climbing in it.


It should be noted I'm even less qualified than SSB. Everyone recovers differently. A 4 week taper would mess with me mentally more than anything else. The guy in the movie link above did a 50miler two weeks before his race day!

Sideshow Bob
20-01-2015, 09:16 PM
DH - here is a link to a few sadistic races. Doesn't mention the Barkleys though.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/10648374/The-8-toughest-races-in-the-world.html

But this is a good article re ultras

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/10956220/10-things-no-one-tells-you-before-you-run-an-ultra-marathon.html?fb

Would have to agree with my limited experience. I excel at eating competitions.....

Sideshow Bob
23-01-2015, 05:59 PM
http://www.runnersworld.com/getting-started/strength-training-for-new-marathoners?adbid=10152564088286987&adbpl=fb&adbpr=9815486986&cid=socBeg_20150122_39213057

Some strength training.

ratkin
25-01-2015, 11:52 AM
PB at the Chinmoy 10k 47.02 went off way too fast , first two k average was 4.28 last two k average was 4.55 ran out of steam but still good enough to knock minute off the last 10k in the park

minimoke
25-01-2015, 02:17 PM
PB at the Chinmoy 10k 47.02 went off way too fast , first two k average was 4.28 last two k average was 4.55 ran out of steam but still good enough to knock minute off the last 10k in the park
Ref!. Ratkin stole my minute. Poor showing today, just couldn't get into it so a minute down. Well done on the pb!

ratkin
25-01-2015, 04:15 PM
Ref!. Ratkin stole my minute. Poor showing today, just couldn't get into it so a minute down. Well done on the pb!

thx, was a bad run really, everyone seemed to start so fast, think it was all the kids doing their one lap. Have to try and learn not to go off quite so fast, but still in five k mode with all the tuesday runs, can only keep it going for around 7.5 k then it all backwards

minimoke
28-01-2015, 08:16 AM
It's a funny old sport. Had a poor 10 km race on Sunday. But did last night's 5km race with a PB of 24:37. I had hoped to get under 5 minute ks by end of summer So hit that target. A nice night, not too hot. People certainly starting at a clip and thought I'd blown it when the first k was done in 4:30.

ratkin
28-01-2015, 01:40 PM
It's a funny old sport. Had a poor 10 km race on Sunday. But did last night's 5km race with a PB of 24:37. I had hoped to get under 5 minute ks by end of summer So hit that target. A nice night, not too hot. People certainly starting at a clip and thought I'd blown it when the first k was done in 4:30.

Good work, certainly helps doing one every week, i noticed last night everybody was trying to start in the front row, was even more hectic than normal, another dropped their cellphone on the first lap and nearly caused a pileup when he bent down to pick it up.

I too another pb but only by 11 seconds, its getting too hard now. They say if your enjoying it then your not going fast enough, but that was pain all the way, no chance to recover breath from the stampede at the start, might sit out next week as have to go 25k on sunday and wont have time to recover properly.

Looking forward to the event they are organising for feb at the Quarry , thats normally a good one, and not quite as frantic

minimoke
28-01-2015, 02:56 PM
might sit out next week as have to go 25k on sunday and wont have time to recover properly.
go on, you can do it. I'm planning a 15 k on Sunday with the 5 on tuesday. If I can do it you sure can. Except I have no expectation of a PB on tuesday - I think the planets were aligned last night

minimoke
04-02-2015, 06:13 AM
So thats the 5km series done. Managed four of the five races. Did 17km on Sunday but have to admit in 27 degree heat I have no stamina so had to walk a bit of it. Another 5km on Monday so turned up with a bit of a NCEA mentality. Turn up and participate and see how I get on. Managed a pip under 25 minutes (24:59) with an average heart rate of 168 BPM where my max is 173 so I think I went as hard as I could. Not sure I'll get to the quarry series, got the 12km Remembrance run and then City to surf lined up next.

ratkin
04-02-2015, 06:44 PM
Good work, must admit i chickened out on tuesday, stayed in and watched the cricket.
Sunday went out at 6am just to avoid the heat.
Are you sure the rememberence run is 12k? says 10 on the run calender. The chch Marathon looks interesting this year, although i will only do the half, should be an interesting route.

minimoke
05-02-2015, 10:41 AM
Are you sure the rememberence run is 12k? says 10 on the run calender.
12 k last year. Seems to be a change to 10k this year


The chch Marathon looks interesting this year, although i will only do the half, should be an interesting route.
I'm going from the 10k last year to the half this year so a nice flat course will be good. And close enough to bike to as a bonus.

blackcap
09-02-2015, 05:25 PM
Completed my first park run last Saturday. Clocked in at 23.15 and very happy with that. Part of my training for the Rotorua marathon and the first 2.5km's I was doing fartleks and just ran out the last 2.5. Hoping to go under 23 mins some time in the next month.

minimoke
10-02-2015, 06:53 PM
Completed my first park run last Saturday. Clocked in at 23.15 and very happy with that. Part of my training for the Rotorua marathon and the first 2.5km's I was doing fartleks and just ran out the last 2.5. With that kind of pace I'd have thought you would already be at the 23 mark if you dropped the fartleks and maintained a pace over the whole 5 km. Getting the km's under your belt as well?

blackcap
10-02-2015, 07:17 PM
With that kind of pace I'd have thought you would already be at the 23 mark if you dropped the fartleks and maintained a pace over the whole 5 km. Getting the km's under your belt as well?

Cheers minimoke for that. I am not sure if I would be under the 23 but you are possibly right. I have not had too much experience with fartleks in the past and do not really know how much "extra" they take out of you. Plenty of Kms under the belt, 14.5 on Sunday, 10km on Thursday, Hills this morning, and a 70 min run on Thursday again with a 16km race on Sunday. Getting pretty excited about it all.

minimoke
10-02-2015, 08:12 PM
Cheers minimoke for that. I am not sure if I would be under the 23 but you are possibly right. I have not had too much experience with fartleks in the past and do not really know how much "extra" they take out of you. Plenty of Kms under the belt, 14.5 on Sunday, 10km on Thursday, Hills this morning, and a 70 min run on Thursday again with a 16km race on Sunday. Getting pretty excited about it all.
I'm not sure I understand this fartlek business. Whenever Ive tried it I end up with a slower overall time over a distance. They are normally over 5km's.

My k's are mounting (21 sunday with a wee walk at the 19 mark, 5 last night and 10 tonight) and I reckon I'm about ready to challenge Mark Lundy over 500m with a prostitute and bottle and rum for the first over the finish line. A life time of sloth is taking a while to shake but I've my Christchurch half as my aim. Good luck with the prep for Rototua!

blackcap
10-02-2015, 08:45 PM
I'm not sure I understand this fartlek business. Whenever Ive tried it I end up with a slower overall time over a distance. They are normally over 5km's.

My k's are mounting (21 sunday with a wee walk at the 19 mark, 5 last night and 10 tonight) and I reckon I'm about ready to challenge Mark Lundy over 500m with a prostitute and bottle and rum for the first over the finish line. A life time of sloth is taking a while to shake but I've my Christchurch half as my aim. Good luck with the prep for Rototua!

Good to read minimoke that your km's are mounting. But my question is, why are you doing 21km's etc when you are training for a half marathon? Do you really need to do the km's for that distance, because I am not going to run 42km's before my attempt at a marathon. Just curious as to your modus operandi. Is it the one on the 31st May that you are hoping to do?

couta1
10-02-2015, 08:55 PM
Forget combining fartlek with a 5k race, just run an even pace or come home slightly faster over the second half. 5k races are great speed work for longer races as you are running at near maximum oxygen capacity and improving your stride efficiency at the same time both of which translate into faster race times over longer distances. Remember that running over hills is speed work in disguise as fast twitch fibers are activated (Just run at normal pace) Fartlek is simply speed play over various distances during a workout ranging from short fast but not all out bursts to longer not so fast sections with appropriate jogging sections in between. KISS equals success in running:cool:

couta1
10-02-2015, 09:14 PM
Good to read minimoke that your km's are mounting. But my question is, why are you doing 21km's etc when you are training for a half marathon? Do you really need to do the km's for that distance, because I am not going to run 42km's before my attempt at a marathon. Just curious as to your modus operandi. Is it the one on the 31st May that you are hoping to do?
Over distance work is common practice up to half marathon distance as it builds extra endurance etc however training that way for a marathon would deplete your energy systems so much that you would be unable to complete your normal training schedule which is counterproductive to what you are trying to achieve. A few runs of around 32k are enough to run a marathon (28k would be the minimum length longest run) Even when I used to race 10ks I did long runs of 20k or more quite often, hope this helps.

ratkin
10-02-2015, 09:26 PM
Over distance work is common practice up to half marathon distance as it builds extra endurance etc however training that way for a marathon would deplete your energy systems so much that you would be unable to complete your normal training schedule which is counterproductive to what you are trying to achieve. A few runs of around 32k are enough to run a marathon (28k would be the minimum length longest run) Even when I used to race 10ks I did long runs of 20k or more quite often, hope this helps.

That about sums it up, im up to 25 for my weekly long slow runs, in prep for rotorua. Before queenstown my longest was about 28 and thats about the distance i conked out in the actual race, so certainly need to get a few 32s under the belt

minimoke
11-02-2015, 05:52 AM
Do you really need to do the km's for that distance, because I am not going to run 42km's before my attempt at a marathon. Just curious as to your modus operandi. Is it the one on the 31st May that you are hoping to do?
a few reasons. One is mental. When I started running a year or so back I couldn't run lamp posts. So I set a target - run a lamp post non stop. Since then I have increased my targets.

when I entered the 10 km last year I couldnt do 10 km. My ego said I wasn't going to be a walker - thus I had to know in myself I could do the distance. Same with the half.

I was disappointed with the selwyn half last year. I was coming off a torn calf and had a patch I had to walk. I'm determined not to repeat that. So this time I'm making sure I am quite able to do the distance without injury.

Not really having much of a clue what I am doing (other than put one foot in front of another) I'm using a training plan. The plan calls for long runs which theoretically will see a 130 minute run - so that should be a half plus.

I'm also using strava (and runkeeper) to record my progress. Strava has monthly challenges which includes half's completed in the month and total km. So I combine these with the training plan. On a bad day I can look at my placing (currently 5400 out of 52000 participants on distance and I get the boost to head out again.since I did a half on Sunday that puts me at 7200 out of 27600 half runners.

Finally knowing I can do distances I work on the times within those distances. That's why I build in the ascics 5 and Sri chinomy 10s. I want to do the Christchurch half, non stop in less than 126 minutes - so it seems to make sense to me to throw in a few runs at this distance before hand

blackcap
12-02-2015, 05:55 AM
Cheers for that minimoke. That makes a lot more sense now. I was unaware of where you were coming from. Good on you for making a better change in your life. That is really impressive. All the best for the upcoming events and hope that you achieve the half marathon without stopping and get the time of 126 mins or less.
Keep up the good work people.

chippy52
12-02-2015, 11:29 AM
From experience I can assure you long runs are an important element to survive a marathon. My training would be around 4 months duration building the long runs along the way from mid 20's to mid 32-36 kms. It's not so much the speed but time on the feet. and as mentioned above the mental aspect. Back in the day my bible of choice was written by Arthur Lydiard which guided me through 13 marathons & numerous shorter distance races.

blackcap
12-02-2015, 08:44 PM
From experience I can assure you long runs are an important element to survive a marathon. My training would be around 4 months duration building the long runs along the way from mid 20's to mid 32-36 kms. It's not so much the speed but time on the feet. and as mentioned above the mental aspect. Back in the day my bible of choice was written by Arthur Lydiard which guided me through 13 marathons & numerous shorter distance races.

Thanks chippy for the experiences, just did a 10km in about one hour, took it real easy and think/thought I could probably have done another 3 laps easy enough at that pace to do a 40km in 4 hours (am trying to break the 4 hour mark for the Rotorua marathon) but you are probably right in that you need km's in the legs to survive. Really excited about the event and really enjoying the training so that on days off I am itching for a run. My buildup is about 3 months but have done a few halfs in the past so feeling pretty confident.

ratkin
15-02-2015, 01:04 PM
Anyone know where the hallswell quarry 8k run starts from on tuesday, cant find the info online for some reason.

Did 27 long slow k today, was nearly at a standstill by the end, average pace ended up 6.30 per k
guess that is about the speed its supposed to be (30sec slower than marathon pace)
Could i have done another 15k? NO

Who is doing round the bays next week? Enjoyed it last year , but decided to do the chch run to remember instead (Cheaper !!)

minimoke
15-02-2015, 01:36 PM
Anyone know where the hallswell quarry 8k run starts from on tuesday, cant find the info online for some reason.
Strange, its not on the event calender. Try this: http://cashmeredownsroadrun.weebly.com/


Did 27 long slow k today, was nearly at a standstill by the end, average pace ended up 6.30 per k
guess that is about the speed its supposed to be (30sec slower than marathon pace)
Could i have done another 15k? NO and reasonable temperatures today as well. Done my painting chores so about to head out for a while but don't think I have the enthusiasm for more than 15


Who is doing round the bays next week? Enjoyed it last year , but decided to do the chch run to remember instead (Cheaper !!) Picked up my band from Miter 10 yesterday. No. 1600 something so looks like there will be a few heading down the hill

ratkin
15-02-2015, 03:21 PM
Picked up my band from Miter 10 yesterday. No. 1600 something so looks like there will be a few heading down the hill

Dont we get a number to pin on :-( I collect them , 2000 people charging down Rapaki is going to be scry, im very wimpy going down steep tracks :-)



Event Entered:
Shoe Clinic Cashmere Downs Road Series


Class Entered:
Non Club Registered 8KM, 10KM and 15KM Races



Just entered for all three quarry runs to get the discount 40 for the three not too bad

minimoke
15-02-2015, 06:38 PM
and reasonable temperatures today as well. Done my painting chores so about to head out for a while but don't think I have the enthusiasm for more than 15

Well, theres a surprise. Despite spending the weekend up and down ladders and a few wines last night got to the 15 k mark and felt quite good so headed off on the back end my 21.1 k route. Completed non stop (!) with a pace of 5:57(!!). Must have been my jelly bean supply and 15 degree temperature. Couldn't have gone much further - indeed I was having a wee lie down after wards and a woman comes up and asks me if I'm OK - any chest pains!


Dont we get a number to pin on :-( I collect them , 2000 people charging down Rapaki is going to be scry, im very wimpy going down steep tracks :-) I collect them as well and at least with Sri Chinmoys we get a certificate. This time just a rubber band - but I guess it is supposed to be a fun run.

I've never been down Rapaki. Keep meaning to do it on the bikes but I figure getting down might be OK but I don't fancy the cycle back up. I haven't done any hill work so I'l be taking it easy. Hopefully there is a decent flat stretch up the top to give enough separation between the runners and walkers.

I'm giving the quarry runs a miss - lifes a bit hectic at the moment so just trying to get the weekend events in

ratkin
15-02-2015, 08:14 PM
Unfortunately due to a lack of entries, the Shoe Clinic Cashmere Downs Series has had to be cancelled. An email will be sent to you shortly to get your bank account details for a full refund.



That is very annoying , they really are a useless running club. They so far behind the times they havent learnt to use the internet properly yet. All they had to do was update the website, now i got to mess around with refunds.
Very annoyed, was looking forward to it

The reason they have no entries is because they incapable of advertising it, not in running calender, no posters anywhere it not even easy to find on their own website

Sideshow Bob
16-02-2015, 06:36 AM
Good on all you guys for the training and working towards goals for future events.

I've just been in the US for a couple of weeks. Couple of token treadmill efforts the first week, when in the north-east, given a foot or so of snow.

However got a couple of runs in in Long Beach and Seattle, which was great and always fantastic to combine some fitness with a bit of exploration.

Just back and feeling a bit shattered. Jet-lagged, eaten too much, drunk more than usual, don't sleep well. No events on he timeline but may have to plan something......

David Hardman
16-02-2015, 10:58 AM
I managed to do 28km in 2:27 (5:14 pace). Ridiculously humid/hot in Sydney with 8:30am temps already at 24deg.

Training during an Australian summer is hard work. You really need to get out before sunrise.

Canberra Marathon 8 weeks away. Hopefully conditions will be much cooler there and by then.

minimoke
16-02-2015, 08:04 PM
I managed to do 28km in 2:27 (5:14 pace). Ridiculously humid/hot in Sydney with 8:30am temps already at 24deg.

Training during an Australian summer is hard work. You really need to get out before sunrise.

Canberra Marathon 8 weeks away. Hopefully conditions will be much cooler there and by then.Jeez you marathon folk put in the KM's!

Running in heat is something I learnt this summer. Anything over 22 and I'm uncomfortable. In 29 i'm shot after 10km. I know I can cope with -2 and up to around 18 so not a bad spread providing I can miss the heat of the day.

minimoke
16-02-2015, 08:06 PM
The reason they have no entries is because they incapable of advertising it, not in running calender, no posters anywhere it not even easy to find on their own website


Disappointing! I think they did hand flyers out at the Asics 5 km but that wasn't enough to encourage me to grab one. How hard is it to register on the Evrnt Calendar - every other run seems to be there - even cancellations

minimoke
22-02-2015, 02:44 PM
With rain on my caravan roof and breakfast in the garden shed today is here to remember. So I do and again thank USAR, NZFS, NZRC, neighbours, local community, NZ'ers and global citizens Time does heal.

Todays Run to Remember was. Started in the cloudy mist with quite a good crowd. I think they were expecting 2,000 but I bet a few pulled out with the weather. Oops - didn't read the the run map so 2kms straight up the blinkin' hill. Wasn't expecting that! Got caught in traffic and hit the 2km with a pace of 8 minutes a k. Over the tops and then 5km down Rapaki track - all down hill from 428m to sea level. 10.3km in 55:36 and a new 10km estimated pb at 54:02. A cleansing run and winning a spot prize at the end will make up for the sore legs tomorrow.

ratkin
22-02-2015, 06:56 PM
Thats a decent time for that course, you must have been flying down that hill!! I was one of the ones that wimped out, although i did do 28 slow k instead. Was too worried about being tripped coming down Rapaki

minimoke
22-02-2015, 07:54 PM
Thanks to my Strava account I can see the down hill is a 3.6 km leg, -8% gradient dropping 272m. Average pace 4.37 which is probably the fastest Ive ever run. Down hill though. Puts me in 117th spot out of 423 people having 1500 goes at it. Obviously a popular track. Ultra long distance runner Marty Luke holds the record 4 minutes faster than me - now thats flying. Its not the being tripped that's the problem - traffic had thinned out at that stage. I've never run downhill before so it was a matter of keeping on my feet in the gravel or hard packed dirt without getting away from myself. Theres bound to be a technique.

A nice day for 28K - your training must be bang on target. Nearly 2 months to go!

blackcap
23-02-2015, 08:24 AM
With rain on my caravan roof and breakfast in the garden shed today is here to remember. So I do and again thank USAR, NZFS, NZRC, neighbours, local community, NZ'ers and global citizens Time does heal.

Todays Run to Remember was. Started in the cloudy mist with quite a good crowd. I think they were expecting 2,000 but I bet a few pulled out with the weather. Oops - didn't read the the run map so 2kms straight up the blinkin' hill. Wasn't expecting that! Got caught in traffic and hit the 2km with a pace of 8 minutes a k. Over the tops and then 5km down Rapaki track - all down hill from 428m to sea level. 10.3km in 55:36 and a new 10km estimated pb at 54:02. A cleansing run and winning a spot prize at the end will make up for the sore legs tomorrow.

Sounds exciting, well done, nice one Mini.

On a personal level, just saw my park run time from last weekend and was surprised to see that I had broken 22 mins. 21.51 last week and just amazed how quickly the progress can be with good training. Next goal will be to break 21.30 but that may be a while away yet.

ratkin
24-02-2015, 05:46 AM
Sounds exciting, well done, nice one Mini.

On a personal level, just saw my park run time from last weekend and was surprised to see that I had broken 22 mins. 21.51 last week and just amazed how quickly the progress can be with good training. Next goal will be to break 21.30 but that may be a while away yet.

You might be surprised, and beat your time quicker than you think. If you do a five k every week and really go for it you may be under 20m in few months. Every week in the five k series was knocking 10-20 seconds off PB and after every race i thought there no way can beat that next week, but time kept dropping.

blackcap
24-02-2015, 05:59 AM
You might be surprised, and beat your time quicker than you think. If you do a five k every week and really go for it you may be under 20m in few months. Every week in the five k series was knocking 10-20 seconds off PB and after every race i thought there no way can beat that next week, but time kept dropping.

Cheers Ratkin, I appreciate the feedback. You may think I am an experienced runner with the time I am getting but I am really quite new to this competitive type of thing. Have done many 6-10km runs up and down the rural roads in my 20's but never really timed them and always ran at the same slow jog. So this is new and exciting. I sent you a pm by the way... hope you got it. Cheers.

ratkin
24-02-2015, 04:04 PM
have just seen you pm and replied

Anyone done the Sumner Chi Chimnoy before? might give it a go this week,

minimoke
24-02-2015, 06:28 PM
Anyone done the Sumner Chi Chimnoy before? might give it a go this week,
I had planned on doing it but feel a bit like a cripple at the moment with legs that aren't really functioning well. If I decide to register later in the week I'll PM you.

So anyone do the Wellington run. Read somewhere there were 13,000 entrants!!!! That must be pretty amazing.

Toulouse - Luzern
02-03-2015, 07:54 PM
Completed the 6.5k run.
Last year won the top spot prize for the 6.5k; a Les Mills 12 Month gym subscription.
Great fun event.
Hurricanes serving healthy food - vege wraps...
Enjoyed it.
You have to be in to win ...

Sideshow Bob
02-03-2015, 09:01 PM
Well done T-L!! Great spot prize last year!

Signed up for the Papatowai Challenge Saturday. Hmmmm, bit underdone, or should I say going in fresh?? First competitive outing for the year, 15.5km with some beach, hill, track and downhill. Should be fun.......

ratkin
03-03-2015, 04:00 AM
Well done T-L!! Great spot prize last year!

Signed up for the Papatowai Challenge Saturday. Hmmmm, bit underdone, or should I say going in fresh?? First competitive outing for the year, 15.5km with some beach, hill, track and downhill. Should be fun.......

is it tough running on the beach for any length of time? The Chi Chimnoy have a 24 k beach run coming, would it be much harder than the road? Im guessing it wont be on soft sand

blackcap
03-03-2015, 08:42 AM
is it tough running on the beach for any length of time? The Chi Chimnoy have a 24 k beach run coming, would it be much harder than the road? Im guessing it wont be on soft sand

That's interesting you say that about beach running Ratkin. Because I do both beach running (bare feet) and road running. But for some reason I find beach running easier. Case in point. I did a 10km Time trial 4 weeks ago on the road and ran that in 50.58. Just a week ago I did the 10km on the beach and ran it in a huge PB of 46.01. So I cannot work out what people mean when they say that beach running is harder.. but everyone I talk to seems to say that. Did have very sore and tight calves after that run but that is to be expected.
Do any other punters have any views on beach running and is it a good training (for a marathon) or will it be detrimental in the long run because different muscles are used?

Sideshow Bob
03-03-2015, 07:11 PM
About 3.5km of beach running. So not too bad.

Just don't get the traction on the beach. Need to run on the hard packed sand without getting my shoes wet! 24 km - would be tough - but at least you have a good option for a cooling swim!

minimoke
03-03-2015, 08:59 PM
I ended up at Bottle Lake park the other week and went for a run there. A trail run on some hard packed soil and km's of very soft deepish sand. Got lost and ended up doing 13kms up and down the wee hills and over the tree roots. Found the sandy part very hard going and average pace well down. Bound to be better on hard packed sand next to the sea but still hard work I'd have thought

ratkin
04-03-2015, 05:34 AM
I ended up at Bottle Lake park the other week and went for a run there. A trail run on some hard packed soil and km's of very soft deepish sand. Got lost and ended up doing 13kms up and down the wee hills and over the tree roots. Found the sandy part very hard going and average pace well down. Bound to be better on hard packed sand next to the sea but still hard work I'd have thought

That happened to me in bottle lake, it all looks the same, it a great surface to run on though, very easy on the knees. The path was blocked about halfway by fallen trees and swamp, hopefully they have cleared that now.
You missed a good run on sunday in Sumner, quite a decent turnout

minimoke
04-03-2015, 05:50 AM
You missed a good run on sunday in Sumner, quite a decent turnout
I did get there and managed a run on target and a minute off the last Sri chimney run. But still sore after the Run to Remember. Now have the City to Surf to look forward to.

What does surprise me is when I look there are loads of events to enter locally. When I didn't run I thought it was just the Christchurch marathon and C2s but there's lots more to collect times and be in to win.

Good on you TL for giving the Wellington run another shot. I recently won a pedometer as a spot prize and all that has done is confirm how little I walk during the day.

couta1
06-03-2015, 06:55 AM
That's interesting you say that about beach running Ratkin. Because I do both beach running (bare feet) and road running. But for some reason I find beach running easier. Case in point. I did a 10km Time trial 4 weeks ago on the road and ran that in 50.58. Just a week ago I did the 10km on the beach and ran it in a huge PB of 46.01. So I cannot work out what people mean when they say that beach running is harder.. but everyone I talk to seems to say that. Did have very sore and tight calves after that run but that is to be expected.
Do any other punters have any views on beach running and is it a good training (for a marathon) or will it be detrimental in the long run because different muscles are used?
It all depends on the type of beach running you do running on firm sand offers only a small amount of resistance whereas soft sand offers a lot. The great coach Percy Cerruty trained his athletes on the sand dunes with good results ( Herb Elliot a case in point) this was a form of resistance training and as you have observed works the calf muscles in particular. Include some beach running in your training as a form of resistance training and because you enjoy it but stick to the road for most of your training for maximum stride efficiency ( Stride efficiency determines how fast you can ultimately run all other things being equal) That's the key to running marathons using the least amount of energy to get maximum benefit so just do your long runs ( Build up to a few 32k runs) run over hills at least once a week and add a day of speed work such as a 5 k race or 3x 1 mile reps with a few minutes jogging in between ( You can shorten the recovery as you become fitter or if you use a heart rate monitor then your pulse should come down to 120bpm before starting the next rep) before doing any speedwork and after warming up do 3-4 fast strides ( You can also add fast relaxed strides at the end of some of your easy runs if you wish) You will do well following a program such as this. Disc- Was a half marathon specialist but did run 3 marathons between 2hrs24 mins- 2 hrs30mins.

blackcap
06-03-2015, 05:10 PM
It all depends on the type of beach running you do running on firm sand offers only a small amount of resistance whereas soft sand offers a lot. The great coach Percy Cerruty trained his athletes on the sand dunes with good results ( Herb Elliot a case in point) this was a form of resistance training and as you have observed works the calf muscles in particular. Include some beach running in your training as a form of resistance training and because you enjoy it but stick to the road for most of your training for maximum stride efficiency ( Stride efficiency determines how fast you can ultimately run all other things being equal) That's the key to running marathons using the least amount of energy to get maximum benefit so just do your long runs ( Build up to a few 32k runs) run over hills at least once a week and add a day of speed work such as a 5 k race or 3x 1 mile reps with a few minutes jogging in between ( You can shorten the recovery as you become fitter or if you use a heart rate monitor then your pulse should come down to 120bpm before starting the next rep) before doing any speedwork and after warming up do 3-4 fast strides ( You can also add fast relaxed strides at the end of some of your easy runs if you wish) You will do well following a program such as this. Disc- Was a half marathon specialist but did run 3 marathons between 2hrs24 mins- 2 hrs30mins.

Hi Couta1, thank you for getting back to me with such a detailed response. I have passed on your comments to my training partner as well as we had a plan which did not cater for a 32km run along the way... but we are coming to the conclusion that we will have to do at least 1 along the way. (personally my longest distance is 28km but that went well). We are also incorporating hill running into our training about once a week and often enough on the long runs we do try and find somewhere where there are a few undulating spots. Thanks for the tips on sticking mainly to the road. Sage advice as I love running on the beach and would do it all day but I guess that may be detrimental to the Rotorua Marathon if I don't do enough training on the asphalt.

Wow your times for the marathon are super impressive. That is world class or very close to it. What was your half time? ever crack the 1:05? I am a 1:45 halfer but with proper training this time hope to beat that in the round the vines run in Martinborough next Sunday. Anyone else doing that one?

couta1
06-03-2015, 05:24 PM
Hi blackcap glad to be of some help, those times were National class when I run them, my best half was 1:09 and I run many at around that time and tended to over race so could have gone quicker if I had focused more on key races but enjoyed racing too much still to finish in the top few in any half marathon in the country was a real honor. You will enjoy the Martinborough course but its not the fastest course around due to the terrain you run on, give yourself a couple of years and you'll go sub 1:30 with consistent training and its takes about 5 years to get to your peak from start(Depending on age of course) Good training, plenty of races and self belief are the keys IMHO.

ratkin
08-03-2015, 06:23 PM
we had a plan which did not cater for a 32km run along the way... but we are coming to the conclusion that we will have to do at least 1 along the way. (personally my longest distance is 28km but that went well).

The long runs are supposed to be key for the marathon training, best done slowly to allow for long time on feet.
i did my first 30k training run today, and at 27k fell apart, happened all of a sudden, here are the splits, slowed by 30 seconds a kilometre, think i mst have hit the wall at the 3 hour mark as took on no fuel during the run
Splits

6:31
6:26
6:12
6:29
6:34
7:01 pee
6:35
6:30
6:31
6:21
6:24
6:47
6:19
6:15
6:19
6:23
6:52 Hill
6:58 Hill
6:29
6:21 20K Feeling great
6:32
6:34
6:19
6:17
6:30
6:43
6:38
7:00 hit wall at 28k
7:04 sick of this
30 km
7:23 on verge of collapse

32 next week , HELP

Sideshow Bob
08-03-2015, 06:58 PM
Well done Ratkin and some long hard miles to get under your belt. No food makes it tough, but will be beneficial. Done plenty of 4hr runs with no food and a bit of water, and get a bit ugly near the end!

Didn't realise we had a legend amongst us Couta! :t_up: I must admit, I thought someone must have hacked your account! Haha, but that is pretty awesome. Respect!! :) I don't know how people run that pace! More tips welcome!! :p

Papatowai Challenge Saturday, down in the Catlins, probably the worst day of the summer, cool, bit of drizzle and windy.

Course was as about 300m of tarseal, down a bush track for about 1.5km, along the beach for about 3.5km, then up a farm track for another 1.5km. The rest was on muddy gravel roads, except the final 2km over tarseal. From the beach, to about the 10km was all uphill, then from the high point, 3.5km downhill to wind out, before the rest on the flat. 15.5km with 335 metres vertical

Tough headwind down the beach and the track was quite muddy and rough. Not been doing much and had a couple of weeks overseas in February, so not really primed. But started off at a steady pace and just tried to keep chugging away. I was a bit sneaking and tried to shelter behind others down the beach, but couldn't avoid it!

baby-stepped my way up the hill, and just tried to keep going. Heart rate was higher 160's most of the way (averaged 166) so nice to get to some relief! Awesome view over the beach, and good to rest a little and get the average speed up!

Averaged about 5m 30 sec km, which was happy with considering. Winning time was 57 minutes. If I was 60+ and a woman! I'd be awesome!! :eek2:

Good to do an event rather than just run around. Stadium to surf 10km this weekend, but undecided.

About 350 down at Papatowai, so a good turnout (many walkers) and a lot getting 5 and 10 year medals.

couta1
08-03-2015, 07:50 PM
Hi ratkin sounds like you had a tough run sometimes there's no reason other than just having an off day but some people should try using energy gels before and during long runs and even the marathon itself. You could try using one before you head out then one at 10k and 20k just to see if it makes a difference ( All with some water of course) There's no point taking one when you hit the wall you need to assimilate the carbs before that. Faster runners are at an advantage in some ways in a marathon( As long as they have paced themselves correctly) because they are on their feet for a much shorter time and their average training volume is much higher allowing a greater carbohydrate burning efficiency, anyway some food for thought.

ratkin
15-03-2015, 10:58 AM
Another tough long run, only 29.5k but was 5 seconds a k quicker than last weeks 30. Took a gel with me today, not sure if it made much difference. I guess these runs will pay off come raceday.

Welcome break from the long run drudgery next two weeks, City to surf 14k next week followed week after by 24k beach challenge, looks like it will be high tide though :-(

minimoke
15-03-2015, 08:31 PM
Weekends too busy so missed my last few Sunday runs. But this week saw start of Christchurch Half training programme so must get back into it again. Will try City to Surf next weekend - a bit different form the 10k'ers at 14.3km

ratkin
16-03-2015, 04:08 AM
Weekends too busy so missed my last few Sunday runs. But this week saw start of Christchurch Half training programme so must get back into it again. Will try City to Surf next weekend - a bit different form the 10k'ers at 14.3km

yeah, its a strange old distance, the city to surf, wondering whether to treat it like a 10k and go quick early, and try to hang on, or take a more leisurely approach. Last year i took it fairly easy until around Hanson park 8k mark? Then put the foot down, it was enjoyable overtaking loads of tired runners , so may try that approach again.
The big crowd at the start, sort of forces a slowish beginning anyway, and time dosent really matter for city to surf, so guess may as well try and enjoy it.

Hardest part last year was escaping from ferrymead, my wife was at the finish and had to park the car around two k away, and the traffic was choked right up, took an hour to get out

blackcap
16-03-2015, 07:58 AM
yeah, its a strange old distance, the city to surf, wondering whether to treat it like a 10k and go quick early, and try to hang on, or take a more leisurely approach. Last year i took it fairly easy until around Hanson park 8k mark? Then put the foot down, it was enjoyable overtaking loads of tired runners , so may try that approach again.
The big crowd at the start, sort of forces a slowish beginning anyway, and time dosent really matter for city to surf, so guess may as well try and enjoy it.

Hardest part last year was escaping from ferrymead, my wife was at the finish and had to park the car around two k away, and the traffic was choked right up, took an hour to get out

I agree with you on the taking it easy early and then going for it. Did that yesterday at the Martinborough round the vines event. First lap 10.5km in 65 mins and did the second one in 50 mins. Heaps of fun trying something like that out and passing a lot of the other runners. (first lap was with training partner who is a bit slower at this stage but wanted to keep her company) I found it a great challenge to see what time I could get on the next 10.5 and treated it as a time trial. And for some reason passing the other runners and seeing them in front and gaining on them gives more of a boost I found.
Good on you Ratkin for getting the long distances under the belt. Only 7 weeks to go now till Rotorua (feeling confident?) and yesterday's event for me was my longest to date but next Sunday hope to do a 2:45 28 odd Km run.

ratkin
16-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Good on you Ratkin for getting the long distances under the belt. Only 7 weeks to go now till Rotorua (feeling confident?) and yesterday's event for me was my longest to date but next Sunday hope to do a 2:45 28 odd Km run.

Good half by you there, are you staying with your training partner in the marathon too?

No , not at all confident !! Really struggling with the 30ks. Im confident i will finish, but judging by last couple of runs wouldnt be surprised if im at a crawl by 35k. The big positive so far is have stayed injury free, and at least done all the long runs. Have one more 30 to go in a few weeks, then it will be time to start tapering off.

minimoke
16-03-2015, 02:27 PM
No , not at all confident !!
time to shift to mental training now methinks. Of course you can do it! You did the queenstown in dreadful conditions. Rotorua won't be so bad so you will be better.

blackcap
16-03-2015, 03:57 PM
Good half by you there, are you staying with your training partner in the marathon too?

No , not at all confident !! Really struggling with the 30ks. Im confident i will finish, but judging by last couple of runs wouldnt be surprised if im at a crawl by 35k. The big positive so far is have stayed injury free, and at least done all the long runs. Have one more 30 to go in a few weeks, then it will be time to start tapering off.

Hi there, I am sure you can do it. Try using some energy and gels to get you through the longer runs. Seems to work for me. Thanks for updating us on the 30km's and the struggles... good to know that we are going to have to try one of them at least.

No not going to stay with training partner in the marathon. Selfish maybe but she does not want me to stay with her anyway. (because I am that bit faster) but its great training with her because it means that for the long runs I actually go slow and do not extend myself as I do on all the other runs.

Good to read you are staying injury free as well. Do not underestimate the importance of stretching on days off and after runs. I do two 30 min sessions a week pulling the muscles back into shape.

Let us know how that 30km's in a couple of weeks goes. All the best!

minimoke
16-03-2015, 08:53 PM
Theres one I missed - the weekends Colour Run. 3,000 runners doing a 5km. Would have been a bit of a laugh and got a Number as well!. Just booked C2S and will avoid the traffic by taking the return bus. Rain with southerlies forecast for Sunday so could be a bit nippy.

slimwin
17-03-2015, 08:45 AM
Incentive to run fast is to avoid the line fora bus!

Toulouse - Luzern
17-03-2015, 10:33 AM
[QUOTE=minimoke;564028]Theres one I missed - the weekends Colour Run. 3,000 runners doing a 5km.

Hi Minimoke,

Your post reminds me:

We were in Milano last September.
The Colour run was on one day.
18,000 runners took part
We were on an open deck red bus tour that day from the Duomo di Milano in the city square to San Siro racecourse and back.
The bus followed the 5 km runners route for a bit and I watched a lot of it.
Looked like a great event, lot's of laughs and happy people.
A lot of fun for the mainly young student age runners.

There was a race meeting on at San Siro that day as well as I recall.
San Siro has a 24 foot high sculpture of a horse at the entrance.
Constructed recently from 500+ year old drawings by Leonardo.

If I had known that that colour run was on before I got on the bus ...

couta1
18-03-2015, 09:01 AM
For what's its worth I would advise most runners against long tapers before their target race for a half marathon a 3-4 day taper is enough and 7 days for a marathon. Long tapers work for advanced athletes because their previous training regime would have been quite extreme but average runners don't normally approach such extremes so therefore don't get the same benefit of a drastic reduction in training.As an example before a big half marathon say on a Sunday I would still do my normal long run the Sunday before and on the Tues or Wed I would do a speed session at 5k race pace then the last few days would be just easy jogs and normally a day off 2 days before the race. For a marathon I would do a medium distance run the Sunday before and then the rest of the week would just be easy jogs other than a light speed session on the Tues, prior to that I just trained as normal and did my normal length long run two weeks prior to the marathon and all my usual speed work. I experimented with long tapers over the years and found my performances suffered and found no benefit in reducing training more than outlined above ( I have science to back up my above regime but won't bore you with that now) Keep up the good work guys and gals.

ratkin
18-03-2015, 11:37 AM
For what's its worth I would advise most runners against long tapers before their target race for a half marathon a 3-4 day taper is enough and 7 days for a marathon. Long tapers work for advanced athletes because their previous training regime would have been quite extreme but average runners don't normally approach such extremes so therefore don't get the same benefit of a drastic reduction in training.As an example before a big half marathon say on a Sunday I would still do my normal long run the Sunday before and on the Tues or Wed I would do a speed session at 5k race pace then the last few days would be just easy jogs and normally a day off 2 days before the race. For a marathon I would do a medium distance run the Sunday before and then the rest of the week would just be easy jogs other than a light speed session on the Tues, prior to that I just trained as normal and did my normal length long run two weeks prior to the marathon and all my usual speed work. I experimented with long tapers over the years and found my performances suffered and found no benefit in reducing training more than outlined above ( I have science to back up my above regime but won't bore you with that now) Keep up the good work guys and gals.

Great advice, will take note. Personally i hate the taper, spend all time worrying about every little ache and pain, worry about catching a cold etc. Luckily have some proper events in the leadup to take mind off the big one

David Hardman
18-03-2015, 11:50 AM
Thanks for the taper tips Couta1. With my limited experience I agree with you.

I've got the Canberra Marathon in 3 weeks. Had manflu all last week which meant I was not up to my usual long run in the weekend. I'm also busy the next few weekend so have switched to mid week long runs.

Ran to work the long way this morning. 5am start, next to no moonlight. Dark! 32km @ 5:18 pace (2:50). Had my first ever dog attack. Large dog jumped up and nipped (not bite) me on the arm as I ran past. Nothing serious but gave me a bit of a fright. Yelled at the owner and ran on.. Arrived at work to realise I left the office keys at home! Not the best start to the day!

My long run plan is to do another 32-34km run Wednesday 25th, 21km on Sunday 29th, then a fast 21km on Good Friday (3rd April). Marathon is the following Sunday (12th April)... Perhaps even this taper is even too long. I only run 3 times a week. Usually 2 x 11-14km runs and then something over 21km

couta1
18-03-2015, 12:06 PM
David I can relate to you re the dog, about 6 years ago after finishing a speed session I was warming down and was bitten to the bone on my arm by a German Shepherd which was on a lead but still managed to lunge at me as I ran past ( This dog was subsequently put down after involving the local council in the matter plus the owner paid all my medical expenses) I have been chased by quite a few different breeds over the years but the German Shepherd has in my experience been the breed I have had the most trouble with and grew most weary of during my last few running years. Re you're taper above that fast 21k as long as its only a 3/4 effort will set you up well for the marathon and will deplete your qlycogen stores sufficiently for your muscles to load up fully over the preceding easy week, just remember to do some easy runs to keep things ticking over till race day.

ratkin
21-03-2015, 02:49 PM
Everyone set for the city to surf? Weather looks like it could spoil the after event party with rain developing in the morning. Southerly would also mean running into the wind/rain most of the way.
Found certificate from last year have 1.10 to beat
Had a very tight hamstring this week, feeling a little nervous that might pull up lame, fingers crossed will be ok

minimoke
21-03-2015, 05:51 PM
Yes and no. Picked up my pack today but not feeling great. Been way too many weeks without a day off working and I'm knackered. "taper" was 10k on Monday, 5 on Wednesday and 7 yesterday. But had tight calves Monday and now my back has given up. As well as EQC trying again to suck the life out of me some decent sleep would be nice. So aim tomorrow is to finish in 1:24 which is probably being optimistic especially if its into the wind most of the way.

slimwin
21-03-2015, 08:16 PM
I feel for you guys. I've been trying to shake a cold for it all week. Under 1.10 will be nice but the real bonus is a free sausage on air new zealand at the end :)

I'm thinking my two training runs may have left me under done. I ran 16.9k last sunday and couldn't walk properly till Wed.

Good luck all!

ratkin
22-03-2015, 02:27 AM
Hope you managing some sleep Minimoke. As you can see by the time of this post, i havent managed to sleep :-( i never can when the premier league matches are on. Always wake up and have to fire up the ipad.
Agree there slimwin, all the free food at the end best thing about it. Mingling at all the corporate tempnts, pretending to know someone just to pinch some food :-)

slimwin
22-03-2015, 02:21 PM
I like to think of it as a payrise. Although our tent blew down last night so we bludged off our neighbours :) 1.03 mins in the end and I had to stop to stretch a calf at 8k. Limped in, but chuffed. It's easy to get carried away when everybody takes off aye.
I was starting to think I may be able to do my first proper half at the ripe old age of 45. Lying in bed now unable to walk,so maybe not...

blackcap
22-03-2015, 05:34 PM
I like to think of it as a payrise. Although our tent blew down last night so we bludged off our neighbours :) 1.03 mins in the end and I had to stop to stretch a calf at 8k. Limped in, but chuffed. It's easy to get carried away when everybody takes off aye.
I was starting to think I may be able to do my first proper half at the ripe old age of 45. Lying in bed now unable to walk,so maybe not...

You can slimwin you can. My partner is 49 and is doing her first marathon this year. We just did a training run of 25.5 km in 2:54 (nice and easy for me, but taxing on her) but she has been training for 2-3 months now and is going to do the marathon. She too is feeling poked now but im sure tomorrow or 2 days later you will be fine again. Keep at it!

ratkin
22-03-2015, 06:03 PM
You can slimwin you can. My partner is 49 and is doing her first marathon this year. We just did a training run of 25.5 km in 2:54 (nice and easy for me, but taxing on her) but she has been training for 2-3 months now and is going to do the marathon. She too is feeling poked now but im sure tomorrow or 2 days later you will be fine again. Keep at it!

Tell her she will be fine, the actual race is in many ways easier than the training. All the training accumulates the fatigue, but she should be fine if well rested for marathon.
I have managed to pick up first injury today. Very, very tight hamstring and pain in sole of foot. Those back to back weeks of 30k runs took their toll, going to have to take it easy for a bit, in case it becomes worse. Ice and anti inflams at the moment. Going to have to do much more stretching. Did the city to surf and went straight for a 20 min massage, moght have helped limit the damage

slimwin
22-03-2015, 06:22 PM
The bit that scares me blackcap, is what next. After that I'll want to do a full. I can run half on a running machine but it's way more taxing on my legs on the road. I'm a bit scared I'll hurt myself and not be able to run at all. Kinda just enjoy being fit so I can eat all the fish and chips I want and drink what I want!
A marathon is probably just a wee bit too much of a comittment.

Sideshow Bob
22-03-2015, 07:54 PM
Go for it Slim! Slowly build up the miles, try to get off-road, good shoes and have an event to aim for. The other thing is to enjoy the pain of a foam roller. Helps heaps!

minimoke
22-03-2015, 08:01 PM
:) 1.03 mins in the end and I had to stop to stretch a calf at 8k. Limped in, but chuffed. It's easy to get carried away when everybody takes off aye.
I was starting to think I may be able to do my first proper half at the ripe old age of 45. Lying in bed now unable to walk,so maybe not...

Ah, speedy wee rabbit. A word from the wise tortoise. Slow and steady enables an afternoon of work and no idle time lazing about in bed. Finished in fine form, no injury at 1:16. Thanks for the tips - after a reconnoiter decided LPC had the best option and settled for a bacon, egg and onion sandwich washed down with a coke. But what about the marshals - fancy stopping the runners so a pesky ambulance with flashing lights could go through us - that slowed me down a bit.

And of course you can do a half - my plan is the Christchurch half. Frankly if I can consider doing it so can you. I didn't start running to well after your age and sounds like you at least have a history of treadmill behind you. Its just a couple of months on the road and you'll be fine. After all its just 7kms more.

Edit - just noticed I've clicked over my 2,000th km so there's a milestone

minimoke
22-03-2015, 08:05 PM
I have managed to pick up first injury today. Very, very tight hamstring and pain in sole of foot. Damn - hope that comes right real soon. My soles get sore when my shoes start to give out. I only manage around 550 - 600km before I have to replace them but my feet let me know before hand

ratkin
23-03-2015, 04:02 AM
Damn - hope that comes right real soon. My soles get sore when my shoes start to give out. I only manage around 550 - 600km before I have to replace them but my feet let me know before hand

What brand do you wear, they should last a bit lonhpger than that. I tthink the injury partly my fault as i never bother doing stretches. Am going to stay off the road the for a week or two. Beach challenge nexrt week then may go to bottle lake to train, or some other place woth softer surface.

good to see you are doing the chch half, back on the old course it shouod be more interesting than the boring airport course, although it was fairly fast, with plenty of parking etc

slimwin
23-03-2015, 07:10 AM
Slow and steady is not in my nature minimoke. I get a little bored and pick someone going faster and try keep up! If I could get tha out of my system...

I did get out of bed! I did some grouting outside my house and dug a path up to level a section to lay lawns today. I do enjoy my grand dad naps though :)

How many weeks do you need to train for a half?

couta1
23-03-2015, 07:18 AM
A pair of running shoes should last around 1000km depending on your biomechanical bias eg if you are on overpronator you'll chop through your shoes faster, other factors like the surface you run on also have an influence as does weight. The biggest predictor of running injury by far is training volume and training frequency these two factors trump all other variables by a country mile. Ratkin re stretching in over 50 years of studies there is yet to be one study with any conclusive results which shows stretching prevents running injuries but quite a few which show incorrecty performed stretching does result in injuries so don't blame stretching or lack of it on injuries.My advice is either follow a disciplined stretching programme holding each stretch for at least 30seconds or don't bother stretching at all. Active stretching through the use of regular fast stride outs and certain plyometric exercises are far more valuable than passive stretching IMO.

minimoke
23-03-2015, 10:13 AM
A pair of running shoes should last around 1000km depending on your biomechanical bias eg if you are on overpronator you'll chop through your shoes faster, other factors like the surface you run on also have an influence as does weight.
thanks couta. I over pronate a wee bit and always run on tarseal. And I'm no light weight so I'm not blaming the shoes. I have lost 10kg so maybe they will last longer now. Started with ascics: 1 pair lasted 600 k but the next 260. Then they put me in a size down but 2E and that didn't work and I gave up on them after 150k). feet got sore andown a new pair fixed that. But last two pairs very comfy mizuno nirvana 9's. First pair lasted nearly 600k so ill see how long this next last.

I feel for ratkin - I tore a calf last year and now quite paranoid about stretches. Perhaps I should relax a bit on that.

minimoke
23-03-2015, 10:25 AM
How many weeks do you need to train for a half?
I tried my first 1/2 last year but tore a calf that saw me loose 4 weeks out of a training plan and left little time to recover. I did finish but fair to say it was me against the snails at the end. Didn't matter though - I just wanted to finish. You'll see from this thread I've been at it ever since - but it sounds like you have been on your treadmill as well.

I started my training plan last week. For me doing 76 minutes yesterday puts me well ahead of plan - especially considering I felt good at the end and the last 500m was an accelerating "sprint" rather than a wobble over the line.

I'd have thought you would manage with little trouble.

blackcap
23-03-2015, 10:34 AM
Tell her she will be fine, the actual race is in many ways easier than the training. All the training accumulates the fatigue, but she should be fine if well rested for marathon.
I have managed to pick up first injury today. Very, very tight hamstring and pain in sole of foot. Those back to back weeks of 30k runs took their toll, going to have to take it easy for a bit, in case it becomes worse. Ice and anti inflams at the moment. Going to have to do much more stretching. Did the city to surf and went straight for a 20 min massage, moght have helped limit the damage

Thanks for that, I will let her know. I do not think she is overly worrying about it. But she seemed to lose all energy in the last 6km's yesterday (hit the wall as it were at 19km) but I think I know why. She does not eat much and I think needs to eat more carbs the nights before a big run. Same thing happened to her in the half marathon last weekend. Last quarter was difficult. But cheers for the resting tip.. I presume you are talking about the "taper"? We have a 2 week taper in our schedule I think it will be ok.
Have organised to run a 28km in 2 weeks time and a 32km a week later and that will be the extent of the long runs, although there is a half marathon somewhere in between.
Hard luck about the hamstrings and foot there, hope it does not hamper your training too much.

ratkin
23-03-2015, 11:23 AM
Thanks for that, I will let her know. I do not think she is overly worrying about it. But she seemed to lose all energy in the last 6km's yesterday (hit the wall as it were at 19km) but I think I know why. She does not eat much and I think needs to eat more carbs the nights before a big run. Same thing happened to her in the half marathon last weekend. Last quarter was difficult. But cheers for the resting tip.. I presume you are talking about the "taper"? We have a 2 week taper in our schedule I think it will be ok.
Have organised to run a 28km in 2 weeks time and a 32km a week later and that will be the extent of the long runs, although there is a half marathon somewhere in between.
Hard luck about the hamstrings and foot there, hope it does not hamper your training too much.

I know how she feels, same happens to me on the long runs. Really need to pile on the food, especially the carbs, and lots of fluid on the runs. Jelly babies are good too. My longest run will be in two weeks time (4 apr) then will gradually wind it down. Lots of stretching excercise planned for this week

blackcap
26-03-2015, 01:15 PM
I know how she feels, same happens to me on the long runs. Really need to pile on the food, especially the carbs, and lots of fluid on the runs. Jelly babies are good too. My longest run will be in two weeks time (4 apr) then will gradually wind it down. Lots of stretching excercise planned for this week

What do you mean by "jelly babies"??? Coz we use Gu at the moment but she cannot get that down quick enough at the water break/station. (ie it takes her 20 mins to get through a gu sachet)

ratkin
26-03-2015, 01:58 PM
What do you mean by "jelly babies"??? Coz we use Gu at the moment but she cannot get that down quick enough at the water break/station. (ie it takes her 20 mins to get through a gu sachet)

I use the gels too, i dont think your meant to wolf them down in a few seconds, i usually open one then gradually suck out the contents over a fifteen minute period. They not very pleasant though. I also carry my own water bottle, which i refil at the water stations every 10 k that way i control exactly how much i drink. 750ml x 4 with one Gel every 8k. At the water stations i alternate between sports drink and water. Having own water bottle avoids the problem of drinking too much or two little. You dont see many carry one here. In the UK they far more common


jelly babies are just lollies.(bassets jelly babies) any lollies will do, the sugar seems to help, at least psychologically, whenever im starting to struggle i have a lolly or two.

Mind you all the gels and lollies i normally feel quite sick by the end of the run

Sideshow Bob
26-03-2015, 08:19 PM
Gu also do chomps, which are quite soft. Less messy than gels and I find easier to get down. 1 packet does 1.5-2 hrs. Seem to almost dissolve.

Worth pricing around. Bought a few in the past on www.bike24.com just have to make the order worthwhile.

blackcap
26-03-2015, 10:42 PM
I use the gels too, i dont think your meant to wolf them down in a few seconds, i usually open one then gradually suck out the contents over a fifteen minute period. They not very pleasant though. I also carry my own water bottle, which i refil at the water stations every 10 k that way i control exactly how much i drink. 750ml x 4 with one Gel every 8k. At the water stations i alternate between sports drink and water. Having own water bottle avoids the problem of drinking too much or two little. You dont see many carry one here. In the UK they far more common


jelly babies are just lollies.(bassets jelly babies) any lollies will do, the sugar seems to help, at least psychologically, whenever im starting to struggle i have a lolly or two.

Mind you all the gels and lollies i normally feel quite sick by the end of the run

Thanks for the heads up there Ratkin. I do not think I will be carrying water as its too close to the race to try things like that. But I will have a look at getting some jelly beans for my partner as she is going to need something to keep her going.
Good luck with the training, mine is going well so fingers crossed I will get there all fit and raring to go.

blackcap
26-03-2015, 11:05 PM
Gu also do chomps, which are quite soft. Less messy than gels and I find easier to get down. 1 packet does 1.5-2 hrs. Seem to almost dissolve.

Worth pricing around. Bought a few in the past on www.bike24.com just have to make the order worthwhile.

Cheers Sideshow... will have a look at them as well.

minimoke
27-03-2015, 07:29 AM
To break my longer runs I work on the basis of: planned kms less 10kms = no of jelly beans I put in my pocket. First bean at 9km. each one lasts around 1km. No idea if there is any benefit but it's a wee treat and helps break the run with something different. Theory sounds odd but in practice it arguably worked last Sunday. Or perhaps it is just an excuse to eat some lollies which I don't normally do.

ratkin
29-03-2015, 10:40 AM
The Sri Chinmoy Waimari Beach Challenge was today. 22.2 k

All week have been worried about hamstring pain, and this was my first run since last sundays City to surf. If todays run had turned out badly then the Rotorua marathon could have been in doubt, only goal was to look after the body.

Started on the beach, first 11k was along hardish sand near the shoreline, nice easy running, went along at 5.30 pace. Legs felt ok apart from the occasional twinge. When we reached the mouth of the waimakariri we turned inland to start the 11k journey back.
Away from the beach over the dunes. This is where it got tough, up and down soft sanded dunes, lots of them, very energy sapping. Caught my feet on a piece of driftwood, and hit the deck, landed on face, gob full of sand, but ok. After another 5k the surface changed to gravel.
Kept going, and finished in 2.17. The winner was around 1.50 and the slow ones around 2.45.

Important thing is legs feel good, am now confident enough to resume marathon training. Although for next weeks 30k slow run i am going to avoid the road and go back to the beach, loved that running along the shore, so much better on the joints.

Very enjoyable run

blackcap
29-03-2015, 01:26 PM
Well done Ratkin. That is awesome. I know what you mean about enjoyable running on the beach. I managed a PB 10km in 43:21 last Tuesday on the beach where I live. But be careful that you do not do too much training on the beach as the Rotorua is on the road. Im doing a 28km slow run next week, then a half marathon, a 32km slow run the week after and then its taper time for me and my partner.
Feeling good at this stage fingers crossed.
Are you looking at running with one of the pace groups in the marathon and if so which one? I am thinking about trying for the 3:45 initially and using the 4hr one as a fall back.
Glad you legs are feeling good after what sounds like a daunting run (sand and dunes are no ones idea of a picnic)

minimoke
29-03-2015, 01:44 PM
Also well done. I thought for a brief moment but it's too long for me. Any way my plan calls for 70 minutes today which I better get done before the cricket starts

ratkin
29-03-2015, 03:45 PM
Are you looking at running with one of the pace groups in the marathon and if so which one? I am thinking about trying for the 3:45 initially and using the 4hr one as a fall back.


If im feeling confident on the day i may join the 4.15 pacers, otherwise will just pace myself. Im not overly bothered about time, just want to finish in as little pain as possible. First goal is just to make it to the start line

ratkin
29-03-2015, 03:46 PM
Also well done. I thought for a brief moment but it's too long for me. Any way my plan calls for 70 minutes today which I better get done before the cricket starts

Mark it down for next year, very good course

minimoke
30-03-2015, 07:11 PM
Gulp, well its done now. money paid and entry confirmed in the Christchurch Half Marathon. If nothing else I'll come away with the $500 Asics prize pack, a medal and my race number

ratkin
01-04-2015, 05:43 AM
Gulp, well its done now. money paid and entry confirmed in the Christchurch Half Marathon. If nothing else I'll come away with the $500 Asics prize pack, a medal and my race number

Good man, will be joining you in that that race. New course , and no doubt loads of publicity for it. Will be better than last years ice skating (-5C) around the airport.

Sideshow Bob
04-04-2015, 03:35 PM
Thinking about doing the Three Peaks in Dunedin next week, on next to no training......yeah that's right, real smart.

In Te Anau and ran (walked) up to Luxmore Hut. About 26km, 3:15hrs and 1000m vert. not too bad but didn't like the 5km run back from Brod Bay to the car park along the lakefront. About 6 others out there running this morning.

Felt Ok but legs bit stiff and sore. Could do with a foam roller to iron out the knots.....

Undecided about 3 Peaks and have until Wednesday to make up my mind. Want to support a local race, but......

minimoke
05-04-2015, 11:50 PM
Thinking about doing the Three Peaks in Dunedin next week, on next to no training......yeah that's right, real smart.

In Te Anau and ran (walked) up to Luxmore Hut. About 26km, 3:15hrs and 1000m vert. not too bad but didn't like the 5km run back from Brod Bay to the car park along the lakefront. About 6 others out there running this morning.

Felt Ok but legs bit stiff and sore. Could do with a foam roller to iron out the knots.....

Undecided about 3 Peaks and have until Wednesday to make up my mind. Want to support a local race, but......
Go on do it, you know you want to. You are in the best position to know your fitness but dont risk looking back and thinking "perhasp I could have done it"

See the articles about that guy down south that did the 50 peaks? Got to be nuts but good on him - that was sure one focus!

I can sympathize with the sore legs - got hit on the bum by some unleashed waist high mutt the other night - and then it tangled my legs as it ran around me. Hip and bum just not right - I keep hearing about these foam rollers . Must look one up

ratkin
06-04-2015, 04:40 AM
Go on do it, you know you want to. You are in the best position to know your fitness but dont risk looking back and thinking "perhasp I could have done it"

See the articles about that guy down south that did the 50 peaks? Got to be nuts but good on him - that was sure one focus!

I can sympathize with the sore legs - got hit on the bum by some unleashed waist high mutt the other night - and then it tangled my legs as it ran around me. Hip and bum just not right - I keep hearing about these foam rollers . Must look one up

that three peaks looks great, took a look at the website, have marked it down for next year. Had loads of running planned for this weekend, but on friday did 14k on beach now calf somsore havent had a run since. Must get out this morning. Marathon stress building. Four weeks to go and yesterday was supposed to be the big 32 k warmup. Just sat in eating easter eggs all day :-(

peat
06-04-2015, 07:59 PM
I just cycle, no running.
I did 3x50k rides over Easter, was awesome weather for it. Only clocked up 2000k last year so I am determined to do better this year.

Sideshow Bob
07-04-2015, 01:38 PM
Three Peaks is still an unknown......have got the first inklings of a cold the last few days, no doubt passed on from Miss 4. Tend to be a little susceptible to the odd cold. Only $10 late entry so will see how I fare. Would be worth a crack for a day out.

Bummer about the calf Ratkin. Hope it gets better soon but if looking for a silver lining it does allow for a few days rest and recharge, both body and mind. Normally I feel refreshed and more energy after a few days break.

Good work Peat. :) We may have to start a thread for cyclists! :p

ratkin
09-04-2015, 03:59 PM
Went to physio today, calf is just an overuse injury nothing major, been given a few claf sttretching excercises and told i can run until it starts aching then stop.
Probably cause by overloading from running on a sloping beach

David Hardman
09-04-2015, 04:51 PM
Went to physio today, calf is just an overuse injury nothing major, been given a few claf sttretching excercises and told i can run until it starts aching then stop.
Probably cause by overloading from running on a sloping beach

That's good news Ratkin. Running on a sloping surface is never a good idea. Even the camber on normal roads can cause issues over the long term.

I've got the Canberra Marathon this Sunday. As usual I'm second guessing my training, feel like I'm coming down with the plague every 10 minutes and nursing phantom leg/knee pains. It must be race week!

Booked some overnight accommodation in Canberra on AirBNB. My hosts name is Rusty Wang. I hope this ends well ;-)

ratkin
12-04-2015, 04:31 AM
That's good news Ratkin. Running on a sloping surface is never a good idea. Even the camber on normal roads can cause issues over the long term.

I've got the Canberra Marathon this Sunday. As usual I'm second guessing my training, feel like I'm coming down with the plague every 10 minutes and nursing phantom leg/knee pains. It must be race week!

Booked some overnight accommodation in Canberra on AirBNB. My hosts name is Rusty Wang. I hope this ends well ;-)

let us know how it goes, we want all the gory details.

Sideshow Bob
12-04-2015, 10:04 AM
let us know how it goes, we want all the gory details.

what, about Rusty Wang?? :eek2:

Good luck DH and look forward to the update.

No 3 Peaks today, cold still around and then sprained my ankle Thursday. Not meant to be.

David Hardman
12-04-2015, 06:01 PM
what, about Rusty Wang?? :eek2:

Good luck DH and look forward to the update.

No 3 Peaks today, cold still around and then sprained my ankle Thursday. Not meant to be.

Canberra done.

Rusty's and his place was strange on many levels but I managed to escape without the need for a tetanus injection. Winning!

Weather was perfect for running. Not cold at all. Kicked off at 6:25 after a minute silence for Richie B. Stuck close to the 3:45 pacer along with 20 or so others. Lots of good banter. The Canberra course gets dull quickly. Plenty of switch backs along featureless highways. Managed to hang onto the pacer until the 36km mark and then faded quite badly. From this point on cramps were threatening but never progressed. I was gobbling salt tablets (still not sure if they make a difference) and my hydration was much better then Queenstown.

Finished 3:53. My first sub 4 and a 10min PB so I’ll take that.

The last 6kms were tough and done at 6:30+ pace. So I know what I need to work on! But how do you even go about that?

Took shoes off after the finish to discover they did not have the inner soles. I washed my shoes earlier in the week and did not put them back in. Shoes were put on in the dark at Rusty’s . On the course I was trying to work out why Canberra concrete and tar seal was much harder then Sydney’s. Glad I did not discover this pre race as it would have been on my mind the whole time. I guess I’m part way to being a bare foot runner!

4 hours drive back to Sydney and the beer is tasting good.

What’s next - Gold Coast in 12 weeks or the Outback Marathon (Alice Springs) in 15. I'll decide in a few weeks time.

ratkin
13-04-2015, 04:53 PM
Canberra done.

Rusty's and his place was strange on many levels but I managed to escape without the need for a tetanus injection. Winning!

Weather was perfect for running. Not cold at all. Kicked off at 6:25 after a minute silence for Richie B. Stuck close to the 3:45 pacer along with 20 or so others. Lots of good banter. The Canberra course gets dull quickly. Plenty of switch backs along featureless highways. Managed to hang onto the pacer until the 36km mark and then faded quite badly. From this point on cramps were threatening but never progressed. I was gobbling salt tablets (still not sure if they make a difference) and my hydration was much better then Queenstown.

Finished 3:53. My first sub 4 and a 10min PB so I’ll take that.

The last 6kms were tough and done at 6:30+ pace. So I know what I need to work on! But how do you even go about that?

Took shoes off after the finish to discover they did not have the inner soles. I washed my shoes earlier in the week and did not put them back in. Shoes were put on in the dark at Rusty’s . On the course I was trying to work out why Canberra concrete and tar seal was much harder then Sydney’s. Glad I did not discover this pre race as it would have been on my mind the whole time. I guess I’m part way to being a bare foot runner!

4 hours drive back to Sydney and the beer is tasting good.

What’s next - Gold Coast in 12 weeks or the Outback Marathon (Alice Springs) in 15. I'll decide in a few weeks time.

Good work, amazing you didnt get all blistered up with no inner soles on. Where do you get the salt tablets from?
My other half had noro virus and the doctor gave her some special sachets of electrolytes, i used them in queenstown, but they all gone now

minimoke
13-04-2015, 04:53 PM
Well done DH. Anyone that does a marathon has my respect - and a sub 4 and a 4 hour drive afterwards! It has to be asked: how do you manage to put shoes on without realising you have no inserts?

David Hardman
13-04-2015, 05:49 PM
I bought my tablets from the local chemist. $14 for 100. Probably the most expensive way to buy NaCI. Many people are dismissive about their efficacy but loads of distance runners take them. I just wanted to try something after being paralysed with cramps in Queenstown.

No blisters to speak of. I wore a brand new pair of Thorlo socks so maybe the extra padding hid the fact I had no inserts early on. Other than that I can't really explain it. Hips and knees very sore today and the DOMS really starting to kick in.

minimoke
13-04-2015, 07:38 PM
and the DOMS really starting to kick in.OK, I have to ask: DOMS?

David Hardman
13-04-2015, 09:43 PM
OK, I have to ask: DOMS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness

minimoke
17-04-2015, 03:45 PM
Christchurch marathon route unveiled today. Two laps past places I used to work in and used to rent out but no longer there. Through city and into Avon side. Won't be easy - 2nd time through the city for me in 4 1/2 years. At least the park part will be flat - a few pot holes and liquefaction volcanoes elsewhere will be likely.

blackcap
17-04-2015, 04:33 PM
Getting pretty excited about the Rotorua Marathon on the 2nd May.(first marathon for me and training partner/partner) Starting the taper after this weekend, first time I have tried something like that. Did a half marathon a few weeks ago in 1:40 (a PB) so am now considering trying for the 3:45 full marathon. Can anyone on here dissuade me from that goal? I have heard that a marathon is that much harder but I did finish the half strong and had plenty left in the tank.. last 1km was done in 4.11 and I have cut back on drinking and smoking the last 2 or so months with the training being priority number 1.
Anyone else on here apart from Ratkin coming to Rotorua?

couta1
17-04-2015, 05:30 PM
Blackcap based on your half time you should be able to run around 3hrs 30 all things being equal but given Rotorua is a fairly tough course then your 3hrs 45mins should be achievable, pacing wise my advice would be to run the first half conservatively due to the course configuration.

blackcap
17-04-2015, 06:09 PM
Blackcap based on your half time you should be able to run around 3hrs 30 all things being equal but given Rotorua is a fairly tough course then your 3hrs 45mins should be achievable, pacing wise my advice would be to run the first half conservatively due to the course configuration.

Thanks Couta1, I appreciate the feedback. I had heard conventional wisdom was to double half marathon time and add 30mins which would get me to 3:50 but yeah Rotorua is tough I have heard (luckily I have been doing a lot of hill training and love hills now) so I think the 3:45 goal is realistic. I am hoping to join the pace group. Anyone have any experiences with these groups at all?

minimoke
18-04-2015, 02:36 PM
Anyone have any experiences with these groups at all?no experience from me Im afraid but it has been recommended to me that I join the 2 hr half pace group. (My aim is 2:06). I don't know - I run on my own at my own pace and I'm not sure how I'd adjust to a group. Especally at the beginning when there is so much traffic. I'm thinking I'll just go at my own flow and see where it takes me. You obviously have a lot further to go so info on pace groups would be interesting.

ratkin
18-04-2015, 02:56 PM
no experience from me Im afraid but it has been recommended to me that I join the 2 hr half pace group. (My aim is 2:06). I don't know - I run on my own at my own pace and I'm not sure how I'd adjust to a group. Especally at the beginning when there is so much traffic. I'm thinking I'll just go at my own flow and see where it takes me. You obviously have a lot further to go so info on pace groups would be interesting.

Last year the start was fairly chaotic, there such a huge number of people in the chch event, at least didnt need to worry about starting too quickly. I have never run with a group either. Basically if you have your sports watch it should be easy to pace yourself.

I like to do a negative split in the half ie run the second half faster than the first. I may be wrong but i think the pace groups go at the same pace the whole time, that might not suit your own style. Might also have trouble locating them among the throng of people

The new course looks good for the half, not sure i would want to do the marathon, the idea of going around twice isnt very appealing. Will be doing the half again this year.

minimoke
18-04-2015, 05:52 PM
Last year the start was fairly chaotic, there such a huge number of people in the chch event, at least didnt need to worry about starting too quickly..
that was my first experience at a race and it did seem chaotic. Being a plodder I thought standing behind the hour 10km mark was a good idea. Even then it took me over 2 minutes to get past the start line. And it wasn't long before I was having to overtake people who seemed to start with a hiss and a roar but fell below my sluggish pace in no time.

I'm getting the hang of it now but not sure how a pace group gets through the traffic if I struggle. Obviously they manage else they wouldn't do it but seems like another thing to worry about. As you suggest I might just use my watch.

ratkin
18-04-2015, 09:53 PM
that was my first experience at a race and it did seem chaotic. Being a plodder I thought standing behind the hour 10km mark was a good idea. Even then it took me over 2 minutes to get past the start line. And it wasn't long before I was having to overtake people who seemed to start with a hiss and a roar but fell below my sluggish pace in no time.

I'm getting the hang of it now but not sure how a pace group gets through the traffic if I struggle. Obviously they manage else they wouldn't do it but seems like another thing to worry about. As you suggest I might just use my watch.

In wellington last year i started right at the back, the electronic timer dosent kick in until passing the start line, so i held back until everyone else had gone, took advantage of the empty portaloos and must have started a good two minutes after wveryone had gone. Worked out well. And it felt good overtaking people, rather than the other way round

Sideshow Bob
19-04-2015, 09:01 AM
In wellington last year i started right at the back, the electronic timer dosent kick in until passing the start line, so i held back until everyone else had gone, took advantage of the empty portaloos and must have started a good two minutes after wveryone had gone. Worked out well. And it felt good overtaking people, rather than the other way round

Good plan, especially if trying to run a negative split. Nothing like coming home with a wet sail, and picking off the people in front, 1 at a time.

Well done to DH last week and good luck for all of those running Rotorua! Sprained my ankle about 10 days ago, so laid up for a while. Did a 2hr 20m bike ride yesterday, but just had 3 pancakes so may need to go out and do it again....

ratkin
20-04-2015, 05:17 AM
Good plan, especially if trying to run a negative split. Nothing like coming home with a wet sail, and picking off the people in front, 1 at a time.

Well done to DH last week and good luck for all of those running Rotorua! Sprained my ankle about 10 days ago, so laid up for a while. Did a 2hr 20m bike ride yesterday, but just had 3 pancakes so may need to go out and do it again....

Im battling tight hamstrings and Planter Fasci whats it. Training for Rotorua has come to a complete standstill, managed 1k yesterday before risking more damage. Going to just rest now and book a few massages next week, hopefully on the day it will be ok

blackcap
20-04-2015, 08:57 AM
Im battling tight hamstrings and Planter Fasci whats it. Training for Rotorua has come to a complete standstill, managed 1k yesterday before risking more damage. Going to just rest now and book a few massages next week, hopefully on the day it will be ok

All the best Ratkin, your still going to make it up there right?. We did our last long run yesterday, a leisurly 2:22 mins 20 km and now are using the last 2 weeks to taper. My legs are tight too so we are going to massage next weekend as well and do plenty of stretches during the weeks and some easy 45 min runs. Getting really excited now as this will be our first marathon.

minimoke
20-04-2015, 10:27 AM
Im battling tight hamstrings and Planter Fasci whats it. Training for Rotorua has come to a complete standstill,damn, that's no good. Any idea the cause. The beach run ? Or too many kms or your training plan? Hopefully a bit of time off will see you through - there is always the pool or bike to keep you busy over next couple of weeks.

ratkin
20-04-2015, 02:17 PM
damn, that's no good. Any idea the cause. The beach run ? Or too many kms or your training plan? Hopefully a bit of time off will see you through - there is always the pool or bike to keep you busy over next couple of weeks.

It was caused by the two 30k runs i think , been struggling with it ever since, feels like a bruise on the heel and causes a tight hamstring too. Thats what you get doing marathons in your 50s (53) .
The shoes may have been to blame too , am going to wear my old pir for the marathon,ones i had at queenstown. I think i will make start line ok, just the preperation a bit disrupted but i am used to that. Will go for massage too i think, and laze around in the hot pools for a few days, hopefully will come right.

Even if i have to slow jog the first 30 and run/walk the rest it will be ok ,im not bothered about times or anything anyway, just enjoy the torture of it all. Main thing is i have raised over 2500 for charity for the run and am the leading fundraiser !!! so i have to turnup

Sideshow Bob
20-04-2015, 07:49 PM
Awesome fundraising effort Ratkin! :t_up: Regardless of the run, very worthwhile.

For the planta fasca, I've had that before and likely linked to the calf. Physio with thumbs of steel broke some of it down, but a golf ball to roll around under the sole did the trick for me.

JayRiggs
23-04-2015, 03:51 PM
Thanks Couta1, I appreciate the feedback. I had heard conventional wisdom was to double half marathon time and add 30mins which would get me to 3:50 but yeah Rotorua is tough I have heard (luckily I have been doing a lot of hill training and love hills now) so I think the 3:45 goal is realistic. I am hoping to join the pace group. Anyone have any experiences with these groups at all?

I remember from Rotorua marathon 2013, each pace group was divided into 3 separate groups roughly 50m or so apart.
e.g. for the 4:30 pace group, there was 1 pace runner at the front, 1 pace runner at the middle and 1 pace runner at the back.

Not sure if that'll be useful for you to know or if Rotorua is doing this again this year, thought I'd share that anyway.
I didn't realise this myself until on the day. I was initially following the 4:30 pace group before I slowed down, then I was passed by 2 other 4:30 pace groups.

Some of the pace runners themselves are pretty cool. They'll casually chat with you along the way.
I think the big pace groups with 20+ people are quite fun to run with.

blackcap
23-04-2015, 04:50 PM
I remember from Rotorua marathon 2013, each pace group was divided into 3 separate groups roughly 50m or so apart.
e.g. for the 4:30 pace group, there was 1 pace runner at the front, 1 pace runner at the middle and 1 pace runner at the back.

Not sure if that'll be useful for you to know or if Rotorua is doing this again this year, thought I'd share that anyway.
I didn't realise this myself until on the day. I was initially following the 4:30 pace group before I slowed down, then I was passed by 2 other 4:30 pace groups.

Some of the pace runners themselves are pretty cool. They'll casually chat with you along the way.
I think the big pace groups with 20+ people are quite fun to run with.

Thanks JayRiggs, I do note their website are saying that they are operating pace groups again this year, with every 15 mins being a bracket up to 5 hours I think. So I will definitely consider it. But as other posters have alluded to... it can destroy your own running rythm. I do like the idea of them talking to you and geeing you up so to speak. That would help as well. But I think I am going to aim for 3:40 and if that feels too hard may tag onto the 3:45 group. Not quite sure of strategy yet but will see.

I do have a question though.. do these pace groups stop at the water stations or just keep on running and drinking on the go? My partner is keen to know as she is a bit of a stopper :)

JayRiggs
23-04-2015, 06:49 PM
Thanks JayRiggs, I do note their website are saying that they are operating pace groups again this year, with every 15 mins being a bracket up to 5 hours I think. So I will definitely consider it. But as other posters have alluded to... it can destroy your own running rythm. I do like the idea of them talking to you and geeing you up so to speak. That would help as well. But I think I am going to aim for 3:40 and if that feels too hard may tag onto the 3:45 group. Not quite sure of strategy yet but will see.

I do have a question though.. do these pace groups stop at the water stations or just keep on running and drinking on the go? My partner is keen to know as she is a bit of a stopper :)

I remember one particular pace runner I was with, he didn't stop at the drink stations, but slowed down a bit to take a drink himself. Not sure what the other pace runners did.
Personally I prefer to run at my own pace, but I do like to hop in and out of the pace groups throughout the course of the day.

ratkin
24-04-2015, 02:01 PM
I remember one particular pace runner I was with, he didn't stop at the drink stations, but slowed down a bit to take a drink himself. Not sure what the other pace runners did.
Personally I prefer to run at my own pace, but I do like to hop in and out of the pace groups throughout the course of the day.

Good info, i was wondering that too about the water stops. I carry my own bottle, which has room for some gels too, so tend to only stop at every other stop, to fill it up. Find it very hard to get going again after stopping, especially in the later stages.

Havent had a run for two weeks now, but will make the start line ok. Being doing plenty of cycling etc, and only missed one of the proper long runs. Did two 30k runs and quite a few over 25 but being three plus weeks ago i might of lost a small bit of condition, but not much

My main worry now apart from the leg not holding up is that my running shoes have just about fallen apart, so am going to have too go to a different pair, they broken in but havent gone more than 15k in them. Going to have the other half waiting at half way just in case need to swap to another pair again.

My goal now is just to finish, will start really slowly to try and avoid re injuring leg. May go with the 4.30 guys then see how feel, thats about the pace i did most of my training at, then will see how feel after halfway. Really not worried about time, just want to enjoy it as much as possible and cross that finish line in one piece

minimoke
24-04-2015, 02:50 PM
My main worry now apart from the leg not holding up is that my running shoes have just about fallen apart, so am going to have too go to a different pair, they broken in but havent gone more than 15k in them. Going to have the other half waiting at half way just in case need to swap to another pair again.

that's a lesson I learnt with my shoes. Was around 500 km calves would start to feel it but after 550 legs got really sore. New shoes, problem went away.

Calves just begining to feel it now after 600 km (I seem to be getting longer out of each pair as fitness improves) so bought a new pair and will head out in them tonight. Plan is to put a couple hundred k in them before Christchurch half then stick them in back of wardrobe after the half and pull out current pair and run them to the ground.

I keep a wee stock of shoes and if I like my new pair of paradox ill buy another pair for $135 and stick them away as well. Nothing like a bargain on something disposable.

I've also learnt as I plod along my feet may as well be as comfy as possible I can't get a 1000k out of a pair so may as well flick them before its too late . Which is a shame since uppers are always in good nick - just soles and treads worn flat

How about socks? DH seemed to have got away with no insoles thanks to socks!

ratkin
24-04-2015, 06:36 PM
Where did you buy the paradox? have been looking for a pair of them.

Im always buying shoes, but most of them i decide i dont like after a few miles. Have about ten pairs, but still cant find any to wear for the marathon. Think the Nike Structure gave me the Fascitis and i did most of the training in them

Have brooks adrenaline 13 14 and 15 Wore the 13 in queenstown, but now have big hole in uppers above little toe
14s i hated and wont wear and the 15s not broken in properly

Favourites are brooks gtx for trails but not enough cushioning for rotorua

Also asics 1000s rub my little toe (which sticks up)

So decided now to go with the falling apart pair after all. Im the opposite from you, uppers always go before the soles, at least they will be nice and airy, and the holes above little toe willstop it rubbing.

Socks Thurlos

minimoke
24-04-2015, 09:52 PM
Where did you buy the paradox? have been looking for a pair of them.
Socks Thurlos
Ah like good fishing spots such secrets cannot be publicly divulged - but I will PM you. (There's a limited supply at half price and best I get in first!)

So an initial review. Problem: wide feet, slightly pidgeon toed and a bit knock kneed and carrying a few more kilos than some reckon i ought to. No idea how to run other than putting one foot in front of other. So essentially I dont know what I'm doing so take review with a large grain of salt! I found the Mizuno Nirvana 9's and loved them (over the Asics 1000's I had) really comfortable but sadly no more in my size. I end up with a pretty even wear pattern over whole sole on both shoes (asics very uneven wear). Some still available in other sizes though. So time to try the next generation Paradox.

Tonights plan called for a 60 minute easy run. Simply strapped shoes on - no particular thought to laces. Socks off the line and a bit damp. Walk to start point - super comfy. First 5km - great no issues. 8km. Hmm left ball of foot a bit tight, right ball developing blister. 10km just a tad off a PB so trotting along quite nicely - but it is a nice night. Left ball still a bit tight. Enormous blister right ball. End of run at 11km with 5:30 pace. Thank goodness. Left ball sore but right blister huge and must have errupted in huge mass of blood. Glad to take a rest. Super comfy walk home. Strip off at home. no blisters, toes ankles, Achilles calf knees and hips all fine. Posting now legs feel fine and balls of feet fine.

So not worried about my half price pair of shoes yet. I've a 100 minute run planned for Sunday so I might pay a bit more attention to lacing and I'll have my long run socks so I'll see how it goes from there.(maybe I should break in over smaller runs - but the Plan is the Plan!)

ratkin
25-04-2015, 08:18 PM
Tonights plan called for a 60 minute easy run. Simply strapped shoes on - no particular thought to laces. Socks off the line and a bit damp. Walk to start point - super comfy. First 5km - great no issues. 8km. Hmm left ball of foot a bit tight, right ball developing blister. 10km just a tad off a PB so trotting along quite nicely - but it is a nice night. Left ball still a bit tight. Enormous blister right ball. End of run at 11km with 5:30 pace. Thank goodness. Left ball sore but right blister huge and must have errupted in huge mass of blood. Glad to take a rest. Super comfy walk home. Strip off at home. no blisters, toes ankles, Achilles calf knees and hips all fine. Posting now legs feel fine and balls of feet fine.


5.30 pace sounds a little fast for an easy run, is that the pace it recommended?

minimoke
25-04-2015, 10:56 PM
5.30 pace sounds a little fast for an easy run, is that the pace it recommended?my plan doesn't have distance or pace ( it just has time) so I usually run based on how I feel. There doesnt seem to be a page which defines "easy" "fast" or "comfortable". Friday was a nice night for a run and i felt fine.

Given the plan has intervals, these are simple: fast then recovery X 3. I understand that . But take sunday. It's supposed to be 21 degrees and I have a "100 minute comfortable" on the plan. There's an oxymoron. Probably end up being a 6:00 pace depending on shoes.

ratkin
26-04-2015, 06:52 AM
my plan doesn't have distance or pace ( it just has time) so I usually run based on how I feel. There doesnt seem to be a page which defines "easy" "fast" or "comfortable". Friday was a nice night for a run and i felt fine.

Given the plan has intervals, these are simple: fast then recovery X 3. I understand that . But take sunday. It's supposed to be 21 degrees and I have a "100 minute comfortable" on the plan. There's an oxymoron. Probably end up being a 6:00 pace depending on shoes.

I think six is fine for the long run, slower the better

David Hardman
26-04-2015, 08:30 PM
I'm a fan of running with pacers. Each to their own.

FWIW, I stumbled across this today.

http://sydney-striders.tumblr.com/post/94584108215/pace-bus-etiquette

couta1
27-04-2015, 08:39 AM
Big contrasts in training paces produce the best race results IMO your easy runs can't be too easy and your long runs are just time on your feet but any hard running should be just that, I favor interval training over tempo or steady fast runs, intervals at around 90% of max heart rate produce the best results,any intervals between 2 and 5 mins are perfect for training for any races between 5k and the marathon.

minimoke
27-04-2015, 11:18 AM
Thanks Couta. I get that. I do find it hard to take it "easy" when the plan calls for easy. I feel like I'm cheating or slacking. My plan is at the point it now has intervals but they are longer than 2 to 5 minutes. Last week was 7 minute hard, 3 recovery x 3. Tomorrow is 3x 10 hard with 3 x 4 minute recovery.

I get the interval part but not the heart rate. See my max heart rate is supposed to be around 166 - 172 so 90% is 150 - 155. yesterdays 100 minute run had an average rate of 158 with 14% >172. i was a bit tired at the end but that was mainly due to the heat which I dont cope well with.

I think my intervals are too long. For a start I'm not fit enough to sustain a fast run for 7 minutes let alone 10. Second my routes have intersections every km or so, so i invariably end up having to wait for cars to pass by. The upshot being while i can get my heart rate up it doesn't get really up, and it doesn't stay up for long.

So what what interval do you reckon. You have the 2 - 5 minute fast - but how long for the recovery?

couta1
27-04-2015, 05:13 PM
MM your recoveries depend on your current fitness level so for those less fit I advise equal length recoveries to the interval time and as you get fitter you can reduce the recovery time (As an example when I was super fit I used to do 3x 5 mins hard with just 1 min easy running in between) if you wear a heart rate monitor then once your heart rate is down to about 120 then you can start your next hard effort. Heat can elevate your heart rate significantly and I always tried to do any interval training before the temp got above 20 degrees Celsius, the same for long runs which I always did early in the morning except in winter time. With my work I normally did my interval training between 9 and 11am which was ideal. Other than doing a lab test to find your maximum heart rate then using 215 minus half your age is reasonably accurate otherwise 2/3 rds of the way through a 5k race would be close, the old 220 minus your age formula is grossly inaccurate.

minimoke
27-04-2015, 07:45 PM
Other than doing a lab test to find your maximum heart rate then using 215 minus half your age is reasonably accurate otherwise 2/3 rds of the way through a 5k race would be close, the old 220 minus your age formula is grossly inaccurate.
Thanks Couta. If I use your formula I get a MHR of 188. I think if i was to hit that I'd be hitting the pavement and the ambulance would be called. but 90% comes to 169 - that's nearly achievable but only for a couple of minutes at a time. In my fastest asics 5km race I crossed the line at 172. (This website reckons 188 is close to a 30 year old - I wish!! http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/PhysicalActivity/FitnessBasics/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp )

At the 2/3 mark of the Asics race my rate was 166. Trouble with this is 90% of that comes to 149. Thats too low given in yesterdays run I had 154 over 70 minutes.

Im thinking of calling it at 185 and then aiming for 3 minutes at 166, with a recovery at 120. say 3 repetitions. Sound OK?

couta1
27-04-2015, 09:36 PM
MM using 185 would be fine and 3 minutes at 166 would be very beneficial so you would be looking at 4-5 min reps as it takes a while to reach 90% in a controlled way, actually forget the 5k test as I should have really said that you would hit max V02 ,2/3rds of the way through a 5k race which works out to around 90-95% of max heart rate hence reps done at 5k race pace are ideal for development of max V02 (V02 max and stride efficiency are critical to race time improvements) the other major factor being lactic threshold but you need not be confused as interval training described about develops all 3 of those key running factors in one neat package without worrying about the science. PS- Your recovery is until your heart rate comes back down to the 120 mark but will be higher for a while after finishing the interval and then drop to your 120 mark gradually so your not jogging the whole recovery at 120, remember you should only jog slowly during your recovery.

skid
28-04-2015, 07:53 AM
Anyone in the Auckland area who is fit and wants to contribute to a good cause--Its more of a fast paced walk and being a ''challenge'' fitness would be required

https://givealittle.co.nz/fundraiser/trekfornepal#

minimoke
28-04-2015, 09:01 PM
MM using 185 would be fine and 3 minutes at 166 would be very beneficial so you would be looking at 4-5 min reps as it takes a while to reach 90% in a controlled way, ...........PS- Your recovery is until your heart rate comes back down to the 120 mark but will be higher for a while after finishing the interval and then drop to your 120 mark gradually so your not jogging the whole recovery at 120, remember you should only jog slowly during your recovery.
Well thanks Couta – I think. That was hard work but interesting! Ended up doing:
6 minute warmup
4 Minute hard. Last 3 minutes average heart rate around 185
3 minute recovery. Slowish jog and got to 120 in 2 minutes.
4 Minute hard heart around 163
3 minute recovery. Came to a halt but got to 120 in a minute then went for a wee fast walk slow jog
4 minute hard Heart around 161
3 minute recovery. Stuffed. A minute to come down to 120. Then off on a fast walk wheezing away like some geriatric asthmatic.
Stopped the clock and a slow jog 5 minute jog home

Much different from the earlier “intervals” where I wasn’t pushed so hard. I’ve now got a benchmark to work from so hopefully improve from here. I can see how it can be beneficial – my lungs haven’t worked so hard for ages.

couta1
29-04-2015, 10:55 AM
Good stuff MM except your first one where your heart rate was at 185 was too high and would have made it much harder to complete the rest at the target heartrate or was that a misprint and was mearnt to be 165?

minimoke
29-04-2015, 11:53 AM
No, not a miss print. It always takes around 1.5km into a run for my heart rate to setitle down. After my 6 minute warm up the rate was still around 165 so I guess it had no where to go except up from there. I think I'll look at extending the warm up to 9 minutes and tap pace back a bit on the first interval.

ratkin
01-05-2015, 11:07 AM
Have been in Rotorua all week for the marathon. Have not done any running for three weeks now due to calf foot and hamstring complaints. However found a brilliant physio on tuesday who spent over an hour pulling everything into shape.
I had been icing the injuries, when apparantly applying heat would have been a better idea. Ice is only for initial injuries supposedly. Have spent much of the week lazing around in the polynesian spa, we shall see tomorrow how restorative the waters are.

Feeling much more positive now that will be able to complete the course, although still slightly nervous due to no running for so long. Its one thing walking around with no pain, another trying to run 42k.

Gory details will follow on sunday

Sideshow Bob
01-05-2015, 09:39 PM
Good luck Ratkin! :)

minimoke
01-05-2015, 10:49 PM
Good luck all runners. There has been a bit of media coverage and it looks quite the event. enjoy!

David Hardman
01-05-2015, 11:41 PM
Good luck all runners. There has been a bit of media coverage and it looks quite the event. enjoy!

Yes, Good luck Ratkin and Blackcap. Run well.

Sideshow Bob
02-05-2015, 02:42 PM
Good luck Ratkin! :)

sorry, and Black Cap also.

minimoke
02-05-2015, 04:30 PM
sorry, and Black Cap also.and blackcaps partner......

16 degrees max, light winds no rain. Looks like a perfect morning tomorrow for a run in rotorua

couta1
02-05-2015, 06:43 PM
and blackcaps partner......

16 degrees max, light winds no rain. Looks like a perfect morning tomorrow for a run in rotorua
Its all over, it was run this morning.

ratkin
02-05-2015, 07:09 PM
Good news is finished and have the medal !!
First run for a month, due to injuries, was worried i wpuldnt even get 5k. However, first twenty k went fairly easily, through the half in 2.15 then going down a steepish hill, the injury struck, and had to stop running, luckily was able to walk ok though and ended up coming in around 5.40 that last half was quite fun though, walking with a couple of good sorts, one of their friends bought us milk shakes from mcdonalds at around the 35k mark, and finished in good shape apart from massive blister on right foot. The road surface was fairly rough, quite hard on the legs, overall happy enough, as a few days ago thought was going to pull out

minimoke
02-05-2015, 11:27 PM
Well done for finishing! one month to recover for Christchurch now!

ratkin
03-05-2015, 02:46 AM
Well done for finishing! one month to recover for Christchurch now!

Looking forward to the half, more my kind of distance. Marathons take too much planning, then everything has to go just right, and at my age the body struggles to cope

minimoke
03-05-2015, 04:18 PM
Its all over, it was run this morning.
Duh! Edit - to read the 100km event in Hagley park today. Jeez, some of those people looked fresher at 60km than I felt at 10km!

ratkin
03-05-2015, 06:11 PM
Duh! Edit - to read the 100km event in Hagley park today. Jeez, some of those people looked fresher at 60km than I felt at 10km!

its mind boggling how they can do 100k round hagley park, two laps and im sick of it.

Sideshow Bob
03-05-2015, 06:28 PM
Well done Ratkin. Great to battle through to the end, but same time disappointing the injury had such an impact on your training and on the day. Yes, need everything to go right but still very creditable to do it and finish regardless (and raise the charity cash!)

Not it sure about the nutritional suitability of McD's milk shakes!! :t_up:

blackcap
04-05-2015, 08:40 AM
Thanks for all the messages of support and the information that you guys all provided here on the forum. It certainly helped me in my first (hopefully not last) marathon. Really appreciated the tips on nutrition, training and what to watch out for etc and the general banter.
Well done Ratkin on finishing and also for doing the run for a good cause.
Personally very happy with my time of 3:45 and my partner managed to score in 5:05 which she was very happy with as well. What a great course (although a bit rough in places) and the head wind around the corner at the 28 odd km mark (cannot remember exactly) was challenging too. Felt great at 21km even up to 28km and then it got very very hard. Managed to struggle through to the 40km mark and then the last 2km were such bliss mixed with pain. Great to cross that finish line. Perfect event and well run. Thanks to all involved and all the volunteers who make the event happen.

blackcap
04-05-2015, 08:41 AM
Thanks for all the messages of support and the information that you guys all provided here on the forum. It certainly helped me in my first (hopefully not last) marathon. Really appreciated the tips on nutrition, training and what to watch out for etc and the general banter.
Well done Ratkin on finishing and also for doing the run for a good cause.
Personally very happy with my time of 3:45 and my partner managed to score in 5:05 which she was very happy with as well. What a great course (although a bit rough in places) and the head wind around the corner at the 28 odd km mark (cannot remember exactly) was challenging too. Felt great at 21km even up to 28km and then it got very very hard. Managed to struggle through to the 40km mark and then the last 2km were such bliss mixed with pain. Great to cross that finish line. Perfect event and well run. Thanks to all involved and all the volunteers who make the event happen.