View Full Version : Digital Bitcoin - DCC.ASX
*Post has been edited 13/06 to rename the thread title to DCC as company has now been renamed and is relisting on ASX under new ticker on 16/06*
Anyone see this? Macro have given up on mining/PM's from what I can see from a brief read over, acquiring Digital CC holdings and moving into cryptocurrencies, very interesting to me as I have some knowledge of the mining process/how they work and generally keep on top of bitcoin/scrypt coins/cryptocurrencies. Announcements are up on the ASX
digitalBTC BRINGS BITCOIN TO THE ASX
Macro Energy Limited (“Macro” or the “Company”) is pleased to announce its intention to enter the digital currency sector
with the proposed acquisition of Digital CC Holdings Pty Limited (“DCC”), its wholly owned operating entity digitalBTC
(“digitalBTC”) (“Acquisition”) and completion of a A$9.1 million capital raising (“Capital Raising”). digitalBTC is an
innovative digital currency company presently operating in Bitcoin mining and digital currency trading, and is currently
developing retail consumer products for Bitcoin and other digital currencies including mobile applications.
To implement this initiative, Macro has entered into a conditional Share Purchase Agreement to acquire 100% of the
issued capital of DCC from its shareholders.
Have taken a position today, should have stuck to my guns and hit the trigger when I was tempted to but wanted to see whether the support/buyer depth would hold up and it has, near 37m shares traded thus far today.
They have around 3m cash/finance on hand which is a quite a fair amount to set up decent mining rigs, and with mining cryptocurrencies the time from purchasing hardware to have mining rings up and running and generating income is very short comparitive to PM's/other mining industries - I am eager to see some news that they have purchased digital mining equipment or if they are in fact going to be mining themselves, or simply purcashing & trading cryptocurrencies (which can also be very lucrative, it's very much a pump & dump for the 'alt' coins being alternative, non-mainstream coins). There are many number of 'alt coins' which are quite often made popular temporarily by things like Reddit, Twitter, 4chan, other social media sites, they do not often hold their value for too long. The 2 main bitcoins are BTC (bitcoin) around US$630 and LTC (litecoin) currently around US$17 going by BTC-E one of the bigger/reliable exchanges. These 2 coins are reasonably stable and have held value for over the past 6 months, personally I don't see these going anywhere, while I also don't see any/many of the alt coins going anywhere at all.
Slightly rushed description, happy to answer any questions on cryptocurrencies if I can
DYOR :) disc; small holding as of today
That's my fun for the day, stop loss triggered, left holding 10k free shares at current value $800. Gotta go home, can't sit here refreshing all day! :D
skeet
14-03-2014, 06:36 PM
I've spent a lot of time looking into setting up a miner of my own. After all my research I decided that it wasn't feasible to do it with out spending a huge amount on money but even then you are at the mercy of the currency and the USA authorities who I think have determined to close BTC down.
Will watch this stock with interest
Mining is feasible but not for bitcoin and not reaaally litecoin. If you wanted to start now you'd be getting a couple of ati video cards and mining something like dogecoin/vertcoin and waiting for those to be pumped then trading for bitcoin which yoi then sell for USD on an exchange, or to NZD on bitnz.com / direct to people who want some. There's also groip mining poola such as middlecoin where your hash rate contributes towards the pool, and when they find a block of coins they are distributed amongst the pool members depending on your # of mining power compared to total mining power
Last bitcoin due to be mined around 2021 IIRC due to the algorithm that increases difficulty the more coins that are mined - they aren't just released at a fixed rate/speed x 21 million coins.
My view as to why it's not suddenly going to crash or disappear like a fad, is that, as long as there are criminals, young folk who are up to speed on current technology and see merit in it, and (potentially poorer) people who don't want to/don't like paying bank fees, there will be a need/reason for people to use BTC to transfer money, untraceably, for near $0 fees. Heck it's getting pretty mainstream now with bitcoin ATM's in both US and from memory Canada, a large number of retailers accepting them, luxary car outfits accepting them as payment (remember that 400k lambo that early bitcoin adopter bought? Probably cost him $500 of bitcoin 3 years ago he's been sitting on hah).
When you say the us govt are targetting it, you referring to the fed reserve/bankers side of govt, or the giant-boot-of-power-and-might-and-'freedom'-that-will-squash-you (:P) side of govt? although those 2 things aren't really so much separate so more I don't think.. In my view I will find it very hard to shut it down, short of collaborating with the other governments and shutting down all the major exchanges at once. I can see this triggering a major crash, which btc MAY not recover from, but it wouldn't be too long before more exchanges open up. But i could see that being a fair risk and would cause the price to come crashing down - on the other hand, before there were exchanges people were transferring cash for btc direct between users anyway, and removing a large number of coins from exchanges would result in LESS in circulation = more desirable = MORE value in them.
Longer term, i'm talking 2016-2021 i really have no idea whether the price of a single btc will be up, down, or steady around now but I can't see it going anywhere this year alone without some major developmens and collaboration form the major governments, or at least, the ones where the largest exchanges are - and I don't think they have their **** together enough to get on to that in 2014.
Also while I remember -
I think the constant hacker attacks, loss of huge amounts of currency and the fact that nothing guarantees your investment is going to deter 98% of the population.
Do you agree that statement could apply to 2008 if you replace hacker with bankers? :P food for thought, what if in the next 'GFC', market crash/correct, recession, BTC holds it's value - do you think that may attract more people to it? In fact if the U.S Dollar becomes devalued, it could push the price of bitcoin UP as more USD's are required to buy the same 1x coin!
Hadn't seen this, this also support -
Bitcoin exchange for high-frequency traders is launched
Perseus Telecom, Atlas ATS collaborate on system for institutional investors
short summary copy-pasted from: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-exchange-for-high-frequency-traders-is-launched-2014-03-12
High-speed telecommunications provider Perseus Telecom and digital currency trading platform Atlas ATS formally launched Wednesday a globally integrated bitcoin exchange system in New York, Hong Kong and Singapore to facilitate trading in the digital currency by high-frequency trading firms and other large financial institutions.
The only thing that concerns me about the article is this mention:
"Atlas ATS CEO Shawn Sloves said the exchange integration across multiple locations will add liquidity to the trading pool for bitcoin by creating a single, global order book that gets around what he calls a “regionally focused, very fragmented” bitcoin trading environment that is “not considered Wall Street grade.”"
The support for bitcoin is due to the anonymous/untraceable nature of transactions hidden/recorded in the 'blockchain' blockchain contains info of how many bitcoins have been sent to what bitcoin address, but there's no way to match up bitcoin addresses to actual users. If this so mentioned orderbook ties transactions to actual PEOPLE, then it will become possible for it to be regulated, taxed, or infested in general by govt/big banking.
Hope my points are relatively clear.. the musings of a man who has been waking up multiple times every night for the past month :/ off to the docs this weekend to get me some sweet medical sleep!
Looks like their run is continuing today - have added to my holding buying on the way up. I am very wary that this could come all the way back down again - there are a lot of people who have lost money on this in the past and will only let it run so far before they start taking some of their losses back out at a better rate than the 2.5c it was last week!
Heh, I just sold out prior to checking here and seeing your post - starting to look a little dicey. Will pick up more if it drops back down to 5c. Out with a good profit which I am happy with :D
tosspot
18-03-2014, 12:10 PM
too scary for me. cant afford to lose any more right now so staying away from this game of roulette
The announcement is promising news but with it's current volatile state i'm not ready to jump back in - still sticking to my guns and hoping for a low 5's entry! Perhaps at the end of this week, if it hangs around 6.7 - 7 for the next 2 weeks I will consider jumping back in at those levels but not without a good deal of research first
Moosie - I would value the business the same way you would value a business that trades forex. In the grand scheme of things, heavier fluctuations aside, bitcoin could be considered a volatile currency in terms of assessing how the business operates, in my opinion. The cloudhashing agreement from my brief overview of the ann doesn't appear to be just giving MEJ mining/hasing power or equipment, but also gives them the opportunity to do trading on behalf of CloudHash which is an interesting trade swap
Some interesting tidbits from hotcopper just now
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wrihv/three_strikes_against_cloudhashingcom/
the comments on this will be worth a read also, I expect there will be some more negative, possibly some positive, I don't have more time to read currently
(for those unaware, reddit my generation who are aware of and support bitcoin, reddit is our 'sharetrader' community for everything on the internet, geeks live and breathe reddit as if it were gospel, food and air. Still, one persons story does not necessarily convey the experience/feelings of all!)
One of the board members of DigitalBTC (the acquired company) is also the CEO of CloudHashing - make of it what you will
Looks like the vendor (i think whoever has sold out of DigitalBTC) gets 83m shares of MEJ - I need to find out when the settlement date of those are - but there could be a BIIIG dump of shares at that point!
this was posted on hot copper, a good writeup albeit it doesn't explain any of the technical aspects of how the technology works
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101504218
A statement as bold and dismissive as his should be countered, because if Mr. Buffett believes what he is saying, then he is vulnerable to misleading millions of people.
My generation grew up looking to the "Oracle of Omaha," as he's known, as a wise sage of finance. And so it is with the utmost respect that I must correct his analogies and his prediction that bitcoin is a mirage. People who listen to him on bitcoin are missing the opportunity to understand a system that is truly better than the one we have now.
In 2013, if you had put your money with Berkshire Hathaway (NYSE:BRK-A - News) your investment would have appreciated 23 percent, while bitcoin surged 4900 percent. Those are returns that are orders of magnitude greater, and no investor should ignore that fact.
It is easy to act dismissive about bitcoin. The technology is sophisticated and most people have a preconceived notion that bitcoin is lawless territory, a sort of "hacker heaven." I am fortunate enough to have friends and colleagues who have studied computer science and are highly knowledgeable about encryption, and distributed computing. They have spent hours with me teaching me about the inner workings and benefits of the bitcoin protocol and Blockchain technology, which is a record that shows where bitcoin are located.
Before finding capable teachers, I was skeptical as well. The learning process took time, I had to suspend my disbelief and I had to learn things that were difficult for me to conceptualize, but I did it because people I respect said it was worth my attention.
(Read more: Man identified as bitcoin creator denies role )
My business-consulting firm Articulate Ventures has been paid in bitcoin for real work that we did. And with those bitcoin we bought office supplies from Overstock.com (NASDAQ:OSTK - News). Mirages don't turn into dry erase boards, or office pens, only money does that. I assure you bitcoin is real to my clients - and the stores I purchase things from.
Bitcoin is also not a mirage to the one million people with wallets registered on Coinbase. It is real to all of the people who push $12 million dollars of volume through the bitcoin network daily, and counting. And it is real to the estimated 6,000 Argentinians who can still afford to feed their families because they bought bitcoin before their currency collapsed.
Mr. Buffett is wrong to analogize bitcoin as a check or money order because bitcoin does not represent money, it IS money. If someone sent me a check for $100, that check is just a promise to give me dollars. When someone sends me bitcoin, it is instantly spendable in its current form. I need not "cash a check" because bitcoin is already money. Do not think of bitcoin as a means to transfer dollars, it holds value by itself and it is highly liquid.
Bitcoin allows us to instantly send money to one another securely, without relying on a financial middleman who works bankers' hours, charges transfer fees, and gambles with depositor's money with the potential to do harm to the economy and needs to be bailed out with tax dollars.
The fact is that the financial system is outdated. Thousands fall victim to credit fraud every day. Merchants who accept those cards pay 2.7 percent off the top, and banks charge anywhere from $10 to $50 for wire transfers, and transactions take days to settle. Merchants can accept bitcoin for fractions of a percent, and transactions settle in 10 minutes. These are innovations that have will enable more people to participate in the economy.
It is also critical that we not view Mt. Gox as a failure of bitcoin. Bitcoin did not fail; its encryption was not hacked. Instead, it was a failure of the people running an exchange. The rugged beauty of the bitcoin system is that individuals are responsible for their own investments. We do not live under the belief that someone will bail us out if something happens, so we take security on as a personal moral responsibility. Our world is better when individuals take responsibility for themselves.
(Read more: Mind your wallet: Why the underworld loves bitcoin )
I know Mr. Buffett claims to only invests in things he understands, so I hope he will take the time to learn more about bitcoin. Bitcoin performs all the necessary functions of money. It is a unit of account, a store of value, it is easily transferable and divisible. Unlike government printed currencies, it is immune to debasement from any government that isn't fiscally responsible enough to pay their bills.
My generation has learned a great deal from Mr. Buffett's proven strategy of investing, so it is difficult to suggest that he is wrong about something. Mr. Buffett did so much with the currency we had before, I can't even imagine what he will do with a currency that has these qualities.
The future is always uncertain, that is why mankind is always searching for an oracle, even though we know there is no such thing. We can only look at what is happening around us and learn about what is possible. Bitcoin is gaining more ground than ever before and no one should dismiss the awesome power of cryptographic currency. Even if you aren't ready to buy, it is absolutely worth paying attention to. Now is the time to learn.
Vance Crowe is founder of Articulate Ventures a business-consulting firm in Saint Louis, Missouri that specializes helping clients differentiate themselves. Vance is a former communications strategist at the World Bank Group. Follow him on Twitter @VanceCrowe.
Disclosure: Articulate Ventures has not done any consulting work for bitcoin-related businesses but has had retainer contracts paid for in bitcoin. Vance holds bitcoin privately.
Good find, thanks to farmboy from hotcopper. This is some promising news I feel as mentioned iceland is generally not subject to the same sort of 'internet' based regulations as most of the rest of the world. Also the cold climate reduces costs for cooling the mining equipment! Good to see some actual expected revenue figures from CloudHashing, how much of it DigitalBTC/MEJ will see remains to be seen, re-reading over the past agreement I could not see any figures/computing power of the terms of that arrangement to try and work out an estimate of monthly proceeds from the cloudhashing agreement. If we see hash rate figures from the gear cloudmining are providing, should be able to compare that against total cloudhashing hash rate and work out their approx % of the 7.5 - 10m
This is from the Coindesk site. The news flows at a phenomenal rate, but this article is of direct relevance to MEJ. Emmanuel Abiodun is a director of the 'new' MEJ.
Bitcoin price took quite a rise last night, now back up to 576 as I write. (Bitstamp)
For its part, CloudHashing says it is proud to be the mining partner of choice to digitalBTC.
“This is a mutually beneficial relationship and partnership for both parties. CloudHashing bringing its wealth of knowledge in the bitcoin mining space and digitalBTC (MEJ) is entering an exciting market with strong capital backing and proven bitcoin trading success,” CloudHashing.com CEO Emmanuel Abiodun told CoinDesk.
Abiodun points out that interest in similar co-op deals is on the rise. He notes that CloudHashing.com has grown at “an alarming rate” and he expects even more success from deals with companies such as digitalBTC.
“It is a trend I believe we will continue to see and companies like DigitalBTC are at the forefront,” he added.
When asked to comment on CloudHashing.com’s expansion into Iceland, Abiodun said mining in the country is growing at a rapid pace.
“We have more than trebled our capacity in Iceland alone. Our overall pool size has grown over ten times since January 2014. Iceland is a great place to mine bitcoin and we have not had issues with regulators,” he concluded.
At full capacity, CloudHashing.com expects it will be churning out between $7.5m and $10m dollars in coins a month. The sheer scale of the operation creates unique opportunities for digitalBTC and its trade desk.
The digitalBTC Investor Presentation is now up on the ASX and the prospectus will be lodged tomorrow at some point also.
Have had a quick read over and has a lot of good information about what they are planning to do, and confirmed that their mining is currently generating revenue, looks good to me. I have taken another position as of yesterday and plan to be topping up after reviewing the prospectus (assuming I am happy with it of course!) I plan to be putting this into the long term market
digitalBTC SIGNS STRATEGIC SUPPLY AGREEMENT WITH LEADING COMPUTER HARDWARE MANUFACTURER BitFury
Announcement out on the ASX, looks very promising to me... few bits and pieces from the ann:
Agreement Highlights
First instalment of digitalBTC’s new Bitcoin mining hardware is in operation, generating new
revenue for digitalBTC since late March
Bitcoin mining revenues to fund the fast tracking of digitalBTC’s retail product development – a key
focus for digitalBTC’s business model
Implementation of digitalBTC’s key business strategy is underway
------------------
digitalBTC’s Bitcoin Mining Performance
The first installation of new BitFury hardware has earned digitalBTC more than 680 Bitcoins to date, generating
revenues in excess of US$330,000 during the first 13 days of operation between 20 March – 2 April 2014.
digitalBTC has committed to two tranches of hardware – this first installation of US$2,000,000 of state of the art
Bitcoin mining hardware that is currently in operation and a second tranche planned to be delivered and operational
in May 2014.
BitFury has been producing the highest performing Bitcoin mining computer hardware chips since 2012 and remains
at the forefront of Bitcoin mining technology. It is estimated that around 40% of all Bitcoins currently mined are done
so using BitFury chips.
------------------
The hardware that digitalBTC has secured is a significant proportion of the current Bitcoin mining network, making
digitalBTC one of the largest Bitcoin miners in the world.
------------------
DYOR - disclosure i am holding
there will be a 1:5.715 dilution when DigitalBTC does the reverse takeover of MEJ on (from memory) 20th of may which they have indicated will be 20c - so at current price that would equate to 3.5c for the same valuation (as opposed to 6.4c current market price). DigitalBTC will need to go to i think it was 33c to match current SP - so depends what value mr market places on DBTC when it goes ahead. Similar kind of play to the TRS/MEGA listing I believe. I am picking (out of the air/out of my ass) around 40c by start of August. We shall see what we shall see :D
Good article on coindesk today, not with any new information but good to get some international exposure
http://www.coindesk.com/digitalbtc-signs-bitcoin-mining-hardware-deal-bitfury/
Operations update released, punters liking it so far it seems. Up 18% and still pushing volume through
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01515419
- first round of bitfury mining gear has generated 1700 BTC since installing 20th of March
- have purchased second round of newer mining equipment, expected to be up and running in may. They have sold off some of the first round of mining equipment and plan to keep doing this within 2-6 months of purchasing (this is how you stay ahead of the curve)
- trading operations have generated a 31% return, liquidating BTC into USD several times a week on online exchanges (no tax on this yet/currently I believe)
- mining is done out of iceland - 100% renewable energy with no fluctating power prices, and cooling is a lot cheaper by using the cold ambient air rather than paying for cooling, which is a bonus.
I am happy with how they are performing and delivering according to their business plan, discl I am still holding long. DYOR, bitcoins may yet still be a speculative 'fad' and not for the faint of heart :) Long term BTC/USD chart shows a steady downward trend which has not broken as yet imo.
/edit aaaand back down we go of course :D no matter to me. not giving them up!
Don't recall posting on here but the new shares for digital BTC were oversubscribed and not being offered to retail or current MEJ holders, I think the takeover/relist happens later this month from memory. Looking forward to it.
Can dig up from hot copper tonight some time, i'm not good at working that stuff out :)
I think most of the figures/dates etc below are correct but have not fact-checked, just going by HC.
So I believe this will go into a trading halt on friday 9th may/MEJ will cease trading on friday, it will be a 1:5.715 dilution - there has been a theoretical/implied price of 20cps on relisting, from the prospectus released I think 4th of April from memory. Can't post the bit about implied price as I left the prospectus at work hah. At current price of 5.4c, that gives a corresponding valuation of the newly listed DigitalBTC of around 31c. I think DigitalBTC will be listing on the ASX on the 3rd of June under unknown code.
There's currently 217m shares on issue. At today's closing price of 5.4c that values the company at $11.7m
My 2c: So at current price, if it lists at the implied price of 20c I will be in the red, this is a pretty risky/speculative play but one I am keen to put my money behind as I am confident in the management, they appear to be delivering according to schedule/plan, they are doing what I would do if I had the money to play with large mining rigs and I am also confident the BTC price is not about to collapse/believe bitcoin is not going away any time soon.
as at 17th april, digitalBTC had:
Current assets of $300,000
Current liabilities of $3376.
Post merger cash assets $12.3m
---------------------
My thoughts - from the information in today's announcement I would expect to see a further ann from the new DigitalBTC early in june regarding the additional $2m of latest-tech from bitfury being up and running, as per the information in today's ann "Second instalment of state of the art BitFury mining hardware expected to be delivered and operational in May 2014"
Previously they were quite quick to release some revenue figures from the first round of BTC mining equipment up and running. They also sold some of the previous equipment at a premium, so I would expect to see some more information regarding the sale of more of the same equipment, perhaps at a premium or not.
We may also receive some more information re. the trading side of things - following on from today's ann "Trading desk operations generate a return of 31% from funds invested up to 30 April 2014". Under the newly listed company I am thinking they will be keen to announce more on this, as in my view they have been pretty pro-active in terms of anns/information releasing thus far under MEJ, and I expect they will want to generate some buzz around the newly listed company.
Late June-early July, i'll be wanting to see some revenue/profit figures or number of BTC mined from the new 'state of the art' bitfury mining equipment which as per the ann "will approximately triple the current mining capacity of DigitalBTC". If they generated "in excess of 1,700 bitcoins following the first deployment of Bitfury mining hardware on 20 March 2014", and the new kit is up and running by 15th may, then conversely we may expect to see 4000-4500 BTC mined by around the end of July (lowered the number from 5100 to account for the increase in difficulty of mining BTC, and no doubt some of the other bigger miners will be increasing their hashing/computer power at the same time). At current BTC price of around USD$425, that would correlate to roughly AUD$1.8m - $2m generated over 1.5months.
Not sure if anyone can work out a PE ratio or some forward valuations based on those figures?
I would also look forward to seeing hopefully some quarterleys from the company although as I understand they are not required to release these on the ASX, just half yearlys a la MBE? quite keen to see some revenue/expenses figures, specifically around the trading operations and what sort of costs the mining is incurring for power (or any other expenses incurred in the mining side of things)
to confirm re. the 20c figure post relisting - this comes from page 9 of the prospectus document: "Subject to the board's discretion to vary the amount, raise new capital of up to $9,100,000 via a prospectus offer by issuing 45,500,000 Shares (on a post-consolidation basis) at $0.20 per Share". I realise this means less without seeing the whole prospectus document, but I ain't typing that bitch up
results of today's AGM - as expected the changeover to new company is all going ahead as planned. New ASX list code: DCC
5806
Still patiently (impatiently!) waiting for the 9th of june when MEJ are expected to relist under the new code DCC
Importantly, the price of BTC has been rising over the past couple of weeks - it was steady around $530NZD from may 1st - may 20th, since then it has risen to $675 NZD. At current price of $570 USD. Taking my previous estimation of 4000-4500 BTC mined by end of july, that increases my calculations from $1.8-2.1m AUD mined by end of july, to new figure of $2.4 - $2.7m AUD mined by end of July. For a $2m investment in may that is looking like a much better return than the $750k return on 2m over 1.5 months from the previous generation of mining equipment they were working with. Looking forward to relisting and some market updates/news from them - previous advice given was that the new mining equipment would be running in May so i would hope to see an update on this at or before relisting date of 9th june
There was another update released late last week, they expect to be relisting on the 3rd. More good news for wider acceptance of bitcoin. Price has edged up to $715 NZD now
dishTV (satellite/cable) tv company in US now accepting bitcoin as a payment method - they have 14m subscribers
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/dish-network-to-accept-bitcoin/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Also, Dutch banks indicating they are open to bitcoin:
Bitcoin grabs Dutch fancy
2:45 PM Friday May 30, 2014
Banking Business Currency Netherlands
. Dutch banks are embracing bitcoin ventures as potential customers. Photo / AP
The Netherlands, birthplace of the world's first stock exchange and the pioneering Dutch East India Company, is now home to banks that are unusually open to bitcoin.
While big banks in China and the US are reluctant to do business with ventures focused on virtual currency, Dutch banks are embracing them as potential customers. National regulators aren't cracking down as they are in other nations and major bitcoin startups are setting up shop in Amsterdam.
Alert to the possibility that bitcoin might simply be a modern version of another historic Dutch moment -- the 17th- century bubble in tulip bulb prices -- bankers also say they are following the lead of new clients. Customers want change, and that change could be bitcoin, said Mark Buitenhek, ING Groep's global head of transaction services.
"We are very expressly looking at what it is, what it can do and, mostly, what the message behind it is," Buitenhek said at a recent conference. "And that tells us: Banks, take action."
The Dutch financial industry's relative respect for bitcoin -- ING is the Netherlands' largest bank by total assets -- contrasts with the US and China, where scepticism about viability and potential misuse for money laundering has made business more difficult for bitcoin startups.
Dutch regulators have warned about the risks of trading bitcoins, which surged in price from less than $13 at the start of last year to more than $1,000 before sliding to about $574 currently. Yet the authorities also have scrutinized bitcoin for its potential, said Jeroen Blokland, a Rotterdam-based strategist at Robeco, an asset manager.
"They are willing to let this technological experiment unfold," he said in an interview. At the same time, authorities are warning anyone who wants to use it as an investment to "be careful, be very careful."
Some bitcoin businesses have chosen Amsterdam over Europe's more traditional tech hot spot of London to base their European operations. Atlanta-based BitPay, a payment processor for merchants accepting bitcoins, opened an office in the Netherlands. BitFury, a startup that manufactures equipment for the bitcoin network, plans to base major operations there too.
The Netherlands' benign environment for bitcoin doesn't stem from its potential as a currency that Dutch citizens might use to buy their bitterballen, a sort of deep-fried meatball that is a national dish. Instead, bankers and regulators are curious about its potential as a payment system.
The bitcoin software protocol uses a public ledger distributed among many computers, known as the blockchain, to verify transactions in the digital currency and ensure that the same virtual coins are not spent twice. The system, first described five years ago by an anonymous programmer named Satoshi Nakamoto, allows for lower transaction costs than those involving a financial institution like Western Union or Visa, which charge for functioning as the trusted third party between people making and receiving payments.
When it comes to bitcoin, the Netherlands shows big numbers for its size. It is home to about 5 per cent of the bitcoin "nodes" -- a source of computing power for the network that authenticates transactions. That is not far off the rates for Germany, Britain, Canada and France, and more than China, home to more than a billion people. The original bitcoin client software, which lets users conduct transactions, has been downloaded in the Netherlands nearly 130,000 times, one of the highest rates in the world on a per-capita basis.
Kim Gunnink, a policy officer for innovation and cybersecurity at the Dutch central bank, said the regulator believes companies could stand to "learn something from virtual currencies" such as bitcoin-based products that might improve customer service.
"Technological innovations in the financial industry and in payment traffic can entail huge opportunities and large benefits for society," Gunnink said.
In an official statement on virtual currencies on May 8, the central bank downplayed the notion that bitcoins could replace or even challenge the country's legal tender, the euro, and cited repeated thefts of bitcoins as a serious risk to consumers. At the same time, neither the central bank nor any other official body has required any bitcoin-related businesses to obtain a license or face any type of official scrutiny.
The willingness of banks to participate in the bitcoin experiment allowed Jouke Hofman and two friends to found Bitonic in Baarn, southeast of Amsterdam, an exchange for obtaining and selling the digital currency, in 2012. Early on, Hofman forged and sustained relationships with ING and ABN Amro Group, the third-biggest Dutch bank.
"We spend two man-days a week convincing the banks not to kick us out," Hofman said. "It was a struggle to get there."
The refusal of banks to give bitcoin businesses access to the existing payment system is one reason some companies have been shuttered or unable to get off the ground in the US. The collapse of an exchange in Japan, Mt. Gox, and the use of bitcoins for illicit purposes, notably on the alleged drug bazaar Silk Road, has made banks wary of becoming unwitting parties to money laundering or consumer fraud.
ABN Amro, by contrast, decided to take the risk, said Paul Iske, head of the bank's innovation centre. Iske said virtual currencies are "to some extent a Black Swan," using a term popularised by the author and investor Nassim Taleb to denote unexpected events with transformational effects. Companies experimenting with bitcoin deserve a chance, Iske said.
"We're not excluding them," and the bank will assess each proposition separately, he said. "That's the kind of bank we want to be."
Still, Iske stresses that bitcoin enthusiasts face some resistance even in the Netherlands. The country is already part of a European payment system, and banks power a popular and cheap online direct-debiting system.
ING's Buitenhek said that the low cost of information technology means that trying a new infrastructure for payments is easier than it has been in the past. And the openness of the Dutch to new ideas in payment systems means the digital currency experiment will be allowed to run its course.
"The Netherlands is among the absolute front runners," he said. "I think we will be and remain pioneers, just as bitcoin is rising very rapidly here compared to other countries."
- Bloomberg
Still patiently (impatiently!) waiting for the 9th of june when MEJ are expected to relist under the new code DCC
Importantly, the price of BTC has been rising over the past couple of weeks - it was steady around $530NZD from may 1st - may 20th, since then it has risen to $675 NZD. At current price of $570 USD. Taking my previous estimation of 4000-4500 BTC mined by end of july, that increases my calculations from $1.8-2.1m AUD mined by end of july, to new figure of $2.4 - $2.7m AUD mined by end of July. For a $2m investment in may that is looking like a much better return than the $750k return on 2m over 1.5 months from the previous generation of mining equipment they were working with. Looking forward to relisting and some market updates/news from them - previous advice given was that the new mining equipment would be running in May so i would hope to see an update on this at or before relisting date of 9th june
pretty confident the BTC downtrend has broken, higher lows and higher highs the past 2 weeks, currently at $670USD
brings the spread up to $2.9m - $3.25m AUD
updated: apple may allow cryptocurrency apps/wallets on the App Store http://www.cnet.com/au/news/apple-may-finally-green-light-bitcoin-apps/
DCC now listed on ASX supposedly, i can't see it from ASB but DB/Commsec have it apparently
Should be open for trading today apparently/hopefully - or at least waiting on some news!
They are on ASX under DCC now, no longer MEJ
Not available to trade as yet, they have released the trading update however which is inline and over my expectations :)
- Mined over 2600 BTC in may alone
- BTC price gone from $430US to $640US in may
- Bitcoins are converted into USD/ASD as they are mined
- the additional $2m of newest bitfury mining equipment was up and running in May in line with guidance and has quadrupled mining capacity (previously reported/expected to triple)
- my previous expection were to have 4000-4500 BTC mined (allowing for downtime/delays) - total BTC mined now exceeds 5100
- trading desk generated returns of 34% on funds invested (up from 31% previously reported in the last trading update)
holding and happy. DYOR :)
-----------------
I am especially happy that they have delivered on and exceeded my expectations posted on 06/05 (highlights below)
My thoughts - from the information in today's announcement I would expect to see a further ann from the new DigitalBTC early in june regarding the additional $2m of latest-tech from bitfury being up and running, as per the information in today's ann "Second instalment of state of the art BitFury mining hardware expected to be delivered and operational in May 2014"
Previously they were quite quick to release some revenue figures from the first round of BTC mining equipment up and running. They also sold some of the previous equipment at a premium, so I would expect to see some more information regarding the sale of more of the same equipment, perhaps at a premium or not.
We may also receive some more information re. the trading side of things - following on from today's ann "Trading desk operations generate a return of 31% from funds invested up to 30 April 2014". Under the newly listed company I am thinking they will be keen to announce more on this, as in my view they have been pretty pro-active in terms of anns/information releasing thus far under MEJ, and I expect they will want to generate some buzz around the newly listed company.
Late June-early July, i'll be wanting to see some revenue/profit figures or number of BTC mined from the new 'state of the art' bitfury mining equipment which as per the ann "will approximately triple the current mining capacity of DigitalBTC". If they generated "in excess of 1,700 bitcoins following the first deployment of Bitfury mining hardware on 20 March 2014", and the new kit is up and running by 15th may, then conversely we may expect to see 4000-4500 BTC mined by around the end of July (lowered the number from 5100 to account for the increase in difficulty of mining BTC, and no doubt some of the other bigger miners will be increasing their hashing/computer power at the same time). At current BTC price of around USD$425, that would correlate to roughly AUD$1.8m - $2m generated over 1.5months.
Not sure if anyone can work out a PE ratio or some forward valuations based on those figures?
Official reinstatement date announced on ASX today, 10am (au) monday 16th of June
Also number of announcements released:
DCC
1:36 PM
Corporate Governance Statement
10
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524918)
DCC
1:35 PM
Securities Trading Policy
7
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524917)
DCC
1:34 PM
Capital Structure
1
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524914)
DCC
1:33 PM
Restricted Securities
1
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524913)
DCC
1:32 PM
Appendix 1A and Information Form and Checklist
20
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524912)
DCC
1:28 PM
Pre-reinstatement Disclosure
1
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524907)
DCC
1:24 PM
ASX Notice - Reinstatement to Official Quotation
2
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524906)
DCC
1:24 PM
Reinstatement to Official Quotation
1
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01524905)
Snow Leopard
13-06-2014, 10:44 PM
It would be good to change the thread title clip - PM if you need to know how to do that.
I notice that their website (http://www.digitalbtc.com/) front page is full of proposed this and that to possibly diversify from mining and trading.
Probably just for the fun of it, but I will do a bit of research.
I thought that their was little profit in bitcoin mining these days, have to get a handle and what their trading bit is actually doing.
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Thanks PT, have found out how to edit the title. Would love to have some more eyes on this! Unfortunately the bitcoin price has sank significantly over the past 2 days, NZ price is 780 down to 655. US exchanges looking better, 670 down to 606 (previously 540 today). Would have been great if they had listed 2 days ago! Lets see how things are on monday. I have not yet investigated the macro reasons for the price drop
Probably due to golds short termm gains. Seems like an interchangeable safe haven bid to me.
Hmm - i'm still a little drunk/hungover but I'm not seeing a huuuuuge amount of correlation - do some charting magic for me moosie mate!
http://www.goldseek.com/quotes/charts/yearlygoldchart.php
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/silkroad-bitcoin-auction/
Could explain the recent drop, interesting article/opinion piece. Credit to hotcopper for finding this
Some more thoughts about this - It's a lot better than the feds dumping the BTC straight on the market but this is still a sizable enough order to signiifcantly effect the market price, at least for a short period of time (more specifically the second larger order). It depends how cheap they go for at auction, e.g. I imagine if the winners get them for significantly below market BTC price that would be greater motivation to dump them all shortly after purchase for a quick profit. The alternative being, if they buy them at/close to/above market price they would wait for the BTC price to rise again then trickle them onto the market
Not long now... :D couple more announcements up on ASX
DCC
8:27 AM
digitalBTC Investor Presentation
27
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01525446)
DCC
8:27 AM
WORLD'S FIRST LISTED BITCOIN COMPANY COMMENCES TRADING
2
PDF (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01525444)
Had some good media coverage overnight, I imagine the international interest process has now started - currently up 22% for the day. Here we go :D
http://readnow.isentia.com/articlepresenter.aspx?GUID=a8a4a36a-5b3a-45cf-a0f9-00124322fae4&serID=15602&ArticleID=265444924&output=pdfsearchable
http://www.coindesk.com/digitalbtc-makes-history-australian-stock-market-debut/
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/technology/a/24252864/well-do-bitcoin-properly-digitalbtc/
From the West Australian Business.
Tech entrepreneur Zhenya Tsvetnenko says the future of Bitcoin is stable, with collapse of Mt Gox, the world's largest Bitcoin exchange, giving his company an example of what not to do.
"We've modelled ourselves as the opposite of Mt Gox," Mr Tsvetnenko said, referring to $US450 million collapse of the Japanese-based trader in February.
"They were bad apple, a bad player with no corporate governance and that's why we listed, to have guidelines and be open."
DigitalBTC is known as a "Bitcoin miner" for the digital currency and peer-to-peer payment system.
It trades, maintains the database and gains newly created Bitcoins and transaction fees. It earned 2600 Bitcoins in May, worth almost $US1.5 million at yesterday's price.
Along with Mr Tsvetnenko, who owns 25.3 per cent, Nativas chief executive Rod Jones has 9.3 per cent and veteran promoter Craig Burton has 6.6 per cent.
Mr Tsvetnenko, who is heading to Sydney for an investor roadshow, said it had been "pretty easy" educating potential investors about the benefits of his Bitcoin venture, as the online currency moved from the fringes.
"We're a start-up company in a start-up industry," he said.
"But everyone I speak to understands what we're doing, and you can't argue with profits."
OutToLunch
18-06-2014, 02:37 PM
I don't hold, but am watching with interest particularly from the perspective of what may lie ahead for fiat currencies. But what do you make of this?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60109915/bitcoin-faces-biggest-threat-yet-a-miner-takeover.html
Just curious.
Hey, good post/find, thanks - I'm not too worried about it as it's in the mining pools' best interests to keep bitcoin alive/stable. Also the community will not stand for any one mining pool having enough power to potentially censor transactions/double-spend bitcoins - ghash have been ddos'd over the past day or two which as reduced/interrupted their mining abilities. (DDOS being a distributed denial of service attack, basically you get thousands of computers to harass/hammer a target, effectively using all of it's internet/computing power to respond to these requests, as opposed to conducting it's primary purpose e.g. mining bitcoins).
http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-pulls-power-ghash-community-uproar/
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/silkroad-bitcoin-auction/
Could explain the recent drop, interesting article/opinion piece. Credit to hotcopper for finding this
Hah, DigitalBTC are bidding on those auctioned bitcoins :P
www.coindesk.com/list-possible-silk-road-bitcoin-bidders-allegedly-leaked-us-marshals/
William Brindise (http://www.digitalbtc.com/management/), head investment manager at DigitalBTC is on the list
Pushing some better volume today up 8%, not too sure why - could be bitcoin price holding consistent around $600 US?
June trading update/numbers should be released i would imagine between july 3-10th, the ceo has made a comment that "The june numbers should speak for themselves". Holding. DYOR
rbel038
30-06-2014, 04:28 PM
The US Marshall Bitcoin auction results are sent to bidders Monday in the US. Im guessing people are taking a punt on DCC winning some at a good price
rbel038
01-07-2014, 01:07 PM
up around 5% at the moment. No market release on whether any blocks of BTC were won by DCC in the auction. Other majors players such as SecondMarket have already come out and said they had not won any
milt1968
01-07-2014, 06:35 PM
Pushing some better volume today up 8%, not too sure why - could be bitcoin price holding consistent around $600 US?
June trading update/numbers should be released i would imagine between july 3-10th, the ceo has made a comment that "The june numbers should speak for themselves". Holding. DYOR
Looks like some great numbers on the way from the CEO comment?
Finding this very interesting
I am confident they will be, based on the growth in mined btc since the new mining hardware was procured, and profit from trading operations increasing from 31% to 34% from March to June. Btc price seems to be holding pretty steady above 600usd, from 400 in March which is good also.
milt1968
01-07-2014, 08:59 PM
I had a brief look at their 27 page investor presentation. The digitalX wallet looks like it has some potential. May look at buying another small parcel in the morning.
Came across this yesterday that Intuit are going to be enabling their system to accept bitcoin payments, wonder if diligent will follow suit
http://www.coindesk.com/intuit-merchants-accept-bitcoin-paybycoin-service/
Probably not today, couple of big blocks now at 41c and 45c, probably by the end of next week we will be through though if we continue adding another 1-2 cents a day
milt1968
02-07-2014, 03:43 PM
Hopefully a positive announcement will get things moving along a little faster.
milt1968
04-07-2014, 03:03 PM
Eagerly waiting for the next announcement
i'm thinking it won't be next week, some time in the following 2 weeks maybe. Looks like there is one/some big sellers unloading, they wait until the bids stack up under the current price then sell down in a block taking out the bids, happening the last couple of days. That's my theory anyway
announcement/annual report out - haven't had time to read/digest yet. Quick highlight, 8,600 BTC mined so far to date. Have completely paid off $4m investment in mining hardware AND costs of power usage, continues to generate revenue from liquidating old hardware.
JBmurc
24-07-2014, 09:46 PM
DIGITAL currency firm Digital CC has increased the number of bitcoins it has earned from bitcoin "mining" and says the bitcoin system is going from strength to strength.
DIGITAL CC, which trades as digitalBTC, was the first bitcoin-focused company to trade on the Australian Securities Exchange, in June 2014.
Digital currency is a medium of exchange that is electronically created and stored - there are no physical notes or coins. Digital currencies can be used as alternatives to currencies such as the dollar, yen and pound. The use of digital currencies is not as widespread as that of conventional currencies: banks do not use digital currencies, and digital currencies may be considered speculative or risky. There are several digital currencies, but bitcoin dominates the market. Bitcoin "mining" describes the process of earning new bitcoins, which can then be converted to a major currency. Bitcoin mining involves the use of powerful computers to verify bitcoin transactions within the bitcoin network. New bitcoins are created and assigned by the bitcoin network to the providers of verification services, such as digitalBTC. Digital CC said in a quarterly cashflow report on Thursday that it had earned about 8,600 bitcoins through mining to date. On June 10, Digital CC reported that it had earned more than 5,100 bitcoins. The current Bitcoin price was $US620. In early June, bitcoins were trading at $US640 on major international exchanges. Digital CC said it had sold 4,000 bitcoins earned through mining for about $US2.1 million up to June 30. "Bitcoin mining has offered us exceptional results to date," Digital CC executive chairman Zhenya Tsvetnenko said. "The bitcoin system continues to go from strength to strength, with significant new investments and major merchants coming on board." Mr Tsvetnenko said the recent move by global technology firm Dell to accept bitcoin as a payment option for online purchases demonstrated the capacity of the bitcoin system to offer enhanced returns for retailers. Digital CC said the value of the bitcoins it had sold, plus the remaining balance of bitcoins held, now exceeded the total amount of money that Digital CC had spent on computer equipment for mining bitcoins and the power needed to operate it. Digital CC said the company had now achieved "complete payback" of its original $US4 million equipment purchase and operating costs to date. Shares in Digital CC were steady at 34 cents at 1417 AEST
JBmurc
25-07-2014, 08:47 PM
Must say from a guy that was viewed Bitcoin as a risky fade ...I'm quickly changing my mind and might well take an investment in DCC...I like the idea of them mining bitcoins for a tidy profit and being the only listed company to be in this growing sector
Russian Billionaire investor and the founder of Digital Sky Technologies Global and co-owner of Mail.ru Group Yuri Milner, has made a strong statement of support in the virtual currency known as Bitcoin. He has reportedly invested an undisclosed amount of his personal fortune in Xapo, a new Silicon Valley Startup that acts as a Bitcoin bank.
Xapo, headquartered in Hong Kong, expects to grow into the emerging Bitcoin market. As the limited number of algorithms-generated virtual currency increase in value, it is not surprising that Milner is seeking a share in that market.
Milner has a reputation for picking the right high tech startups to invest in. He was an initial investor in Facebook, Zynga, Groupon and Spotify, when all of those companies were still considered startups.
His DST acquired a $1.2 billion stake in Twitter when it first went public, after having already invested $400 million in the social media company in 2011.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Australian government needs to pay closer attention to the meteoric rise of bitcoin and its regulation in the local market, as businesses and customers in*creasingly turn to the world’s most famous digital currency for transactions.
That is the view of Ronald Tucker, chairman delegate of the Australian Digital Currency Commerce Association, who argues that Australia has the chance to be the leader in tightening the regulatory framework around bitcoins in the Asia-Pacific region – or be left behind as other economies take note.
Mr Tucker met with government representatives on Wednesday, including some from the Australian Taxation Office, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, Treasury and the Reserve Bank of Australia, calling for more official bitcoin monitoring.
He argues that self-regulation – in tandem with government input – would go a long way to legitimising the currency, cutting down on crime and protecting consumers.
“Digital currency is here to stay,” he said. “There’s certainly a need for an agile response, and if we don’t respond appropriately now and quickly to get off on the right foot, there’s a possibility that Australia gets left behind.
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/bitcoin_is_here_to_stay_and_in_need_V5z0tq1tuZCEUR M0chSgXL
Daytr
25-07-2014, 09:08 PM
Wow JB I wouldn't have thought you would be one to get involved in BTC. Personally wouldn't touch with a barge poll even though their will be people who make a load of dosh, I fear many will lose their shirt. Good luck to ya!
rbel038
25-07-2014, 10:45 PM
The thing with bitcoin mining is that in order to get the payback and profit heavily from it you need to be investing the amount that DCC is and promptly replacing hardware as the difficulty increases.bitcoin may come and go but these guys are making cash right now and learning for whatever comes next in the digital currency world
Acceptance of bitcoin continues to grow by the day, it seems every week more large companies are accepting bitcoin as a choice of payment. The most notable and recent to accept bitcoin is Dell which is now the world's largest company to accept bitcoin. Some other notable ones to me of late, Expedia (major travel company), Home Depot, Amazon, NewEgg and ASOS, even in little old NZ Slingshot accepts bitcoin for broadband payments.
Bitcoin ATM's are becoming more and more popular/populous, with them now in Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne with plans to add them to Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane. To me, bitcoin is here to stay, and is only going to grow more popular. The simple fact it allows you to instantly send money anywhere in the world, non-reversable, for fraction of a percent fees is revolutionary. I believe it will be like the fax machine, email, eftpos were in terms of technological advances. Sure it is still VERY highly speculative and risky at the moment but I whole heartedly believe in it and I am getting in early :)
I also strongly believe in the management of DCC.ASX - Zenya Tsevtnenko is one smart cookie worth over $100m currently, being a technology entrepreneur and believer, having made his money in the mobile/advertising/SMS spaces. http://au.linkedin.com/in/zhenyatsvetnenko
JBmurc
26-07-2014, 12:13 AM
Wow JB I wouldn't have thought you would be one to get involved in BTC. Personally wouldn't touch with a barge poll even though their will be people who make a load of dosh, I fear many will lose their shirt. Good luck to ya!
About a week ago I would have agreed with you ,,,but after the study I've done the more I get what all the hype is about ..yes there is issues mainly on how Governments will continue to treat the new Currency ...but thats more and more looking like they don't want to be
left behind ...why .....basically because it's so damn a good as a currency ..the one that got me was currency transanction costs compared to any other method where talking 6c compared to 100k-200k for a muti million dollar transver i.e ..It's really the natural progression of money ...we live in a high tech world ..paper fiat free created money will and has always devalued to it's true value...zero
pretty sure the USD value has like lost 90% of it's value since it's creation ....bitcoins will become deflational(they will buy more and more) in time as the cost to make increases with the end game of no more bitcoins ....
-from wiki-
Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of Bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every 4 years. The result is that the number of Bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million[1]. This algorithm was chosen because it approximates the rate at which commodities like gold are mined. Users who use their computers to perform calculations to try and discover a block are thus called Miners..
-not that many years ago smart people stated >>>>>----Newsweek in 1995: Why the Internet will Fail...
I also hold silver bullion because I believe it's costs to mine will continue to increase and demand will continue to outpace discoveries and always have value ...bitcoins in a funny tech way also have these properties ...Silver is the best conductor better than any other metal ..Bitcoins transvers currency better than any other form of currency .....
well thats my view on it at this stage
JBmurc
26-07-2014, 11:28 AM
I am a subscriber to the idea that there have already been 2bubbles in BTC and that there will be a third and final mega, ultra, super bubble spike and crash when we get near that last bitcoin being mined. As with the others, the price will return to the mean and provide a constant value. I am still watching in fascination ;)
yes nothing moves in a straight line much will depend on continue acceptance of the mob/public and also how the powers that be accept it's growing interest as a true International tech currency .....when you really think of any major new technogly the view from the masses
has always been of disdain / distrust ....Radio / TV / Internet / cellphones / Internet banking / texting / air travel / ........etc really you could write a novel on new tech over the life of mankind that was first laughed at to become used on mass
Daytr
26-07-2014, 02:36 PM
JB there is probably a library of novels of ideas that were laughed at by some, taken seriously by others, but in the end have long been forgotten as they came to zilch. Y2K comes to mind where almost the entire Western World got suckered in. The Russians said, we will take our chances thanks & they were obviously proven right. Man there must have been geeks laughing their arses off back then. For mine BTC is very flawed & unless it is backed by something like gold which I see there is one in the US being launched, then IMO it will be a fairly short lived fad. But good luck, I'm more than happy to miss out & be proven wrong. As Moosie says there may still be spikes in value t trade & take advantage of, but to suggest you are getting early IMO you are actual getting in late. Early was 2 years ago.
JBmurc
26-07-2014, 03:40 PM
JB there is probably a library of novels of ideas that were laughed at by some, taken seriously by others, but in the end have long been forgotten as they came to zilch. Y2K comes to mind where almost the entire Western World got suckered in. The Russians said, we will take our chances thanks & they were obviously proven right. Man there must have been geeks laughing their arses off back then. For mine BTC is very flawed & unless it is backed by something like gold which I see there is one in the US being launched, then IMO it will be a fairly short lived fad. But good luck, I'm more than happy to miss out & be proven wrong. As Moosie says there may still be spikes in value t trade & take advantage of, but to suggest you are getting early IMO you are actual getting in late. Early was 2 years ago.
Can't be any worst than SOC .....flawed so you think the likes of the 24billion market cap monster DELL is stupid to now take BTC as payment ?? I'm sure they would have done their research ....Even Apple Reverses Anti-Bitcoin App Policy....and now allow BTC apps
IMHO there will come a time when Apple even takes BTC as payment that will really open the flood gates
JB there is probably a library of novels of ideas that were laughed at by some, taken seriously by others, but in the end have long been forgotten as they came to zilch. Y2K comes to mind where almost the entire Western World got suckered in. The Russians said, we will take our chances thanks & they were obviously proven right. Man there must have been geeks laughing their arses off back then. For mine BTC is very flawed & unless it is backed by something like gold which I see there is one in the US being launched, then IMO it will be a fairly short lived fad. But good luck, I'm more than happy to miss out & be proven wrong. As Moosie says there may still be spikes in value t trade & take advantage of, but to suggest you are getting early IMO you are actual getting in late. Early was 2 years ago.
I definitely agree with you regarding early being 2 years ago (or longer). I first heard of BTC around 3-4 years ago from memory when they were worth like 20c or $2 each.. dismissed them as some stupid darknet internet thing that I didn't understand so didn't pay any attention to them. Kicking myself now heh. I have mined a few hundred each of some of the more popular alt coins (alternative coins - e.g. not bitcoin/litecoin) e.g. dogecoin, BIC coin, in the hopes that in another few years some of them may be worth something hah.
Update - AirBaltic now accepting bitcoin, worlds first airline to do so. Accepting payments for flights to 60 destinations. In not so great news, btc price has had a solid week of drops, from 630 to 595. Still miles away from early may's lows of $400 but if it continues dropping next week I will be considering taking some of my dcc shares off the table and look to buy them back cheaper.
There was an article about DCC in the Au Financial Review's weekend edition, unfortunately I don't have access to it and trying to sign up on the website is giving errors/not letting me do it currently. Anyone have an AFR subscription they can email me the article from?
http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/getting_rich_one_bitcoin_at_time_IJu4wWCnQP5JqDuX0 agKNN
There was an article about DCC in the Au Financial Review's weekend edition, unfortunately I don't have access to it and trying to sign up on the website is giving errors/not letting me do it currently. Anyone have an AFR subscription they can email me the article from?
http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/getting_rich_one_bitcoin_at_time_IJu4wWCnQP5JqDuX0 agKNN
Someone on hotcopper posted the article - some good coverage on DCC and gives some insight into Zenya's history and motivations for DCC. I am interested to note he echoes my thoughts about the revolutionary nature of bitcoin - "When I heard about bitcoin I understood that we are right now on the cusp of a revolution on the scale of the internet or dare I say it [the invention] of the PC,” Tsvetnenko says. Article is well written/presented and doesn't go in to detail about what bitcoin is/how it works but should be understandable by the general public. In terms of share price movement, I am hoping enough of the investing community in Australia reads/digests it, and it would be great if it got picked up by coindesk to garner some international attention.
-----------------------
Not so long ago, Zhenya Tsvetnenko had no problem showing off his wealth. At 27 years of age, the Russian-born Tsvetnenko, who moved to Perth when he was 12, had built a business from his Canning Vale lounge room that was throwing off $2.5 million in profits a month.
The budding tech entrepreneur would pose for photographs with his white Lamborghini LP560 – one of seven luxury cars in his stable – alongside a rented private jet that had become his preferred mode of international travel. In one shot his glamorous fashion designer wife Lydia draped herself across the bow of a motor yacht, in another he’s sipping champagne in the back seat of the jet. Now, aged 34, he is selling most of the cars – he’s realised he doesn’t have time to drive them all. His flashy fast-paced life is being superseded by long hours at the office as he gets ready to float his second business, an internet advertising and software group called Mpire Media that’s due to hit the boards of the ASX in November. Mindful of appearances, he’s dulling down the bling because, somewhat ironically, Tsvetnenko hopes he’s about to really hit the big time. The tech entrepreneur, and technology industry in Australia, is growing up.
“I made a lot of money and everyone knows it,” Tsvetnenko tells AFR Weekend. “But the thing is, I suppose, that those shots misrepresent how my life is right now. For me now, my schedule I wake up at 6am and start work. Come home at 6.30 pm and have one and a half hours for dinner and family and then I work until 11 pm.”
He’s so busy that he’s even annoyed his wife by stalling plans to build a mansion in Applecross offering views to Perth’s Swan River. As well as Mpire Media, Tsvetnenko is busy with is other ASX-listed business called Digital CC. He thinks he has found the next tech jackpot, the mysterious digital currency, “bitcoin”, and his optimism is palpable, along with plenty of chutzpah.
Here to change the world
“I’m not here to just make a tonne of money for my shareholders,” he says. “I’m here to change the world.”
Tsvetnenko may not be as rich as other internet pioneers like Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, worth $35.7 billion, or Jan Koum and Brian Acton, the Silicon Valley tech guys whose messaging service WhatsApp was bought for $19 billion in February.
But he typifies what might well be the next force of wealth creation in Australia – in the latest [I]BRW Rich List three newcomers arrived in the ranks of Australia’s most wealthy thanks to tech.
Australia is starting to live up the hopes of having its own “Silicon Beach” to go with Silicon Valley in California and Silicon Alley in New York. But are the likes of Tsvetnenko building actual business, or will they be wiped out if – some would say when – the bubble bursts?
His bitcoin business Digital CC, which trades under the name DigitalBTC, was set up just four months ago. It earns bitcoins by using algorithms to authorise transactions from one bitcoin user to another.
Bitcoin is a decentraliased virtual currency championed as a faster, cheaper alternative to existing payment systems. Its origins are shadowy and a good number of its users are likely to be motivated to avoid detection by tax authorities or police – it’s been identified as a preferred way to pay for drugs on illegal websites like Silk Road.
But it’s also slowly creeping into the general financial system. This month computer giant Dell began accepting bitcoin payments, joining travel booking website Expedia.com and US satellite TV company Dish to embrace the currency. Closer to home, Sydney real estate agency Forsyth Real Estate accepts the virtual currency for house deposits and property advertising. Bitcoin ATMs are even popping up in Westfield shopping centres.
In June, Digital CC became the first company dedicated to bitcoins to float on a major stock exchange and it has already recovered its initial $4 million start-up costs.
Strong first quarter
On Thursday it reported its first quarterly report as a listed entity. It captured just one month of trading for Digital CC and revealed it had generated $1.5 million in revenue from the sale of bitcoins.
That’s not bad given bitcoins are a made up currency that are not backed by any central bank and experience wild gyrations in value – after soaring above $US1000 ($1059) per unit last year they now are trading at about $US617 a unit following after the collapse in February of Mt Gox, the world’s biggest bitcoin exchange.
Digitall CC is the in business of authorising bitcoin payments between others, a process known to the tech gurus as “mining”. That’s probably the closest link Tsvetnenko has to a resources sector that usually creates Western Australia’s rich.
The company has “mined” 8,600 bitcoins, selling 4,000 since March to generate $US2.1 million. The remaining 3,600 bitcoins on its balance sheet are worth around $US2.2 million. Which means, together with its liquid cash and bitcoin stash, the business has generated more than its $4 million start up capital.
Digital CC, where Tsvetnenko is executive chairman, also trades the currency and is working on plans to develop products that will make bitcoins accessible to mums and dads via a project called Digital X.
It’s this research and development element to create a bitcoin “wallet” that has him especially excited. His eyes pop as he begins explains why.
“Usually if something is secure it’s hard to use. If something’s easy to use you can break into it,” Tsvetnenko says. “If you can combine the two you have a product that is miles ahead of any other product on the market.”
There are plenty of wrinkles to sort out before bitcoins can make their journey out of the techy stratosphere and into the hearts and minds of the everyday consumer.
A key issue is security; Mt Gox’s collapse in February was the result of hackers breaching its computer system and stealing nearly half a billion dollars worth of virtual coins. But Tsvetnenko, the bitcoin believer, thinks virtual currency will revolutionise the way we all pay for things. One day, he says, we may be buying and selling houses with them. Afterall, it promises instant and free digital transactions to anyone, anywhere in the world.
“Bitcoin might not be the final answer, it might be the Myspace of Facebook, but it will be a similar technology by which we are not going to not just be buying and selling goods, but signing contracts,” he says.
Plotting the next move
Tsvetnenko has spent that past 18 months plotting his next big tech moves. The business that he made his fast fortune – an entertainment text message subscription service – has itself been a victim of technology as smartphones drive demand for apps not texts.
Mpire Media acts as a middle man of sorts between advertisers and websites – from media organisations, bloggers or other vehicles by which consumers may view ads.
Mpire gets paid by advertisers but only after an agreed outcome, usually a product sale, from an internet ad. Advertisers pay Mpire, who in turn pass on part of the revenue to the website that captured the consumer. It essentially “clips the ticket”. Tsvetnenko wants to raise cash – between $3.5 million to $5 million – to fast track offshore expansion plans as part of Mpire’s reverse takeover of failed junior explorer Lithex Resources, which is expected to be completed by November.
Photos of Tsvetnenko appearing to splash cash around as if it were popcorn probably won’t help convince investors that their money is in safe hands, which, along with maturing, goes some way to explaining why he’s sharpening his image.
But are tech stocks safe? Valuations of tech companies are so high that some are wondering if we’re about to repeat of the dot-com bubble, which burst in 2000 when Tsvetnenko was a 20-year-old university drop-out facing time in the dole queue.
Even US Federal Reserve chairman Janet Yellen thinks valuations are “stretched”.
Tsvetnenko dismisses the suggestion that any of this business might be overvalued, drawing a firm line between them and US social media groups like Twitter and Facebook, which is worth a whopping $194 billion after its shares hit a record high on Thursday on better than expected earnings results. Still, it’s trading on about 81 times current earnings.
“You have behemoths of companies and these crazy valuations of social media,” he says. “In Australia we have a completely different space. The things we are doing are all very much valued fairly. A bubble would insinuate that our company would be worth a billion dollars in the space of a month or the space of six months. Whereas we would like to be but it’s probably unachievable.”
However, Tsvetnenko, Zuckerberg, Koum and Acton do have one important thing in common, something that distinguishes them from the rest of us who merely dream up technology business ideas.
Hackers of the world unite
They are all what’s known in the industry as “hackers” – an affectionate term for people who actually know how to write computer code. Tsvetnenko has been doing it since he was eight and brags on his LinkedIn biography that he mastered “Assembly Language” by the age of 12, when his biochemist parents emigrated to Perth.
Growing up in the working class suburb of Canning Vale but attending the top performing public high school Rossmoyne, Tsvetnenko cut his own path early – irritating his parents by quitting his electrical engineering degree to work at tech companies while writing his own code in the evenings.
His parents have finally quit giving him grief about never finishing the university degree – a decision he made because he just didn’t want to write the code someone else wanted him to. He wanted to write code to pursue his own ideas.
Tsvetnenko lacks little in confidence and determination.
He gets why investors should understand how tech businesses work and how they make money before investing in them.
After all, he himself has sworn off investing in companies he doesn’t know well after getting burnt taking investment tips from stockbrokers only too eager to promise making a fortune from his fortune.
“I have learnt a very important lesson. If you are investing in things you need to understand it,” Tsvetnenko says.
“If you get a call from the broker every week and get told what is good to buy you are either going to break even, very rarely you might make money but quite often you’ll just lose money. Flat out. You need to spend time to understand it yourself. If you do that it is very difficult to fail.”
The AFR Weekend sat down with Tsvetnenko to do just that – understand just how his new businesses work.
What was supposed to be a 45-minute interview blows out to nearly two hours as Tsvetnenko, aided by a stack of green plastic Starbucks coasters patiently maps out the moving parts across his boardroom table.
We, eventually, get the mechanics of his new listed ventures but we’re none the wiser as to whether it’s a sure-fire bet for making, in Tsvetnenko’s words, “tonnes of money”.
But we can’t doubt his self-belief.
“When I heard about bitcoin I understood that we are right now on the cusp of a revolution on the scale of the internet or dare I say it [the invention] of the PC,” Tsvetnenko says.
“We will most likely in our lifetimes not witness the same type of revolution and I am so excited to be here right now and actually be in a position to capitalise on that. We are here to capitalise on this opportunity to create the MS Dos’s of bitcoins. We are here to create the Windows of bitcoin.”
Daytr
27-07-2014, 08:56 AM
Hi Clip, thanks for posting, a couple of things from the article that stood out for me as a cynic.
BTC is described as an efficient payment system with less costs than currency, however they make money by doing the following. Surely is is the cost right here, it may not be direct, however it dilutes the number of BTC.
Digitall CC is the in business of authorising bitcoin payments between others, a process known to the tech gurus as “mining”.
The other is, after a two hour interview they still couldn't identify the ultimate business model. Guys like this I'm sure will make a lot of money, although some may go bust. However he is right at the forefront of this, sort of like first in first out. And just because he is taking it so seriously to give up the playboy lifestyle isn't really here nor there. Perth is the perfect place for him its a boom / bust town & there are plenty of get rich quick personalities to get pulled in or market such ideas.
BC, to date I have put up with a few of your cracks re SOC, mate I feel for you, however you made your own decisions, bought at a level that I thought was far too high initially & then kept doubling up & I even dropped you a PM warning you about doing this. So mate, I hate to be harsh & I sincerely hope you get your money back, but suck it up & take responsibility for your own decisions. Cheers Daytr
rbel038
27-07-2014, 12:00 PM
Can't be any worst than SOC .....flawed so you think the likes of the 24billion market cap monster DELL is stupid to now take BTC as payment ?? I'm sure they would have done their research ....Even Apple Reverses Anti-Bitcoin App Policy....and now allow BTC apps
IMHO there will come a time when Apple even takes BTC as payment that will really open the flood gates
There is strong incentives for retailers to use BTC payment as opposed to the likes of credit card or paypal.
1) Non reversible , no charge backs. BTC is a virtual cash transaction, favoring the seller more than the buyer in this case.
2) Dell etc dont see any difference to alternate payment methods. By this I mean the payment processors ,bitpay etc that provide the plug-in for the e-commerce sites instantly convert the paid bitcoin into the retailers preferred currency through a market exchange provider like coinbase. Essentially to the retailer they are just accepting cash from the payment processor, there is no exposure to the market volatility.
Daytr
27-07-2014, 12:47 PM
Agree rbel038, Dell I'm sure crosses any BTC straight to real currency, so they are not exposed to any BTC risk. Virgin were doing the same & it was quite a good publicity stunt for them. Very Bransonesque.Me personally, I prefer megacoin & my personal favorite igotalottacoin which I will launch any day. I wonder just how many can be created? And there lies one of the major flaws amount many others.
Agree rbel038, Dell I'm sure crosses any BTC straight to real currency, so they are not exposed to any BTC risk. Virgin were doing the same & it was quite a good publicity stunt for them. Very Bransonesque.Me personally, I prefer megacoin & my personal favorite igotalottacoin which I will launch any day. I owner just how many can be created? And there lies one of the major flaws amount many others.
Do I understand your post correctly, are you saying that a weakness in the bitcoin protocol is the fact that any old person can create a coin? There is no theoretical limit to the number of different coins that can be created, if you can think of a name you can make it. The minor coins are largely never successful and are only really followed for speculative trading and by home/'consumer' miners who get in early then sell them off once they have surged/spiked in price and popularity, this is largely generated by interest/advertisement on reddit. Take a look at the mega coin price chart history as an example https://coinplorer.com/Charts/MEC/USD
Some might say it looks similar to the long term chart for bitcoin but I believe bitcoin has now reached a level of acceptance where unless something major happens like the US downright outlawing it, the price will continue to track sideways with small fluctuations before starting to increase again at some point in the next 6-18 months. California has classified bitcoin as a legit currency and the big banks/fed now seem to be talking of regulating rather than banning it which offers support.
The only other coin I saw with a chance of potential is litecoin which could be used as 'change' or for smaller purchases. E.g BTC are the notes/bills and LTC are the coins. The fact that BTC can be used in portions As small as 8 decimal places somewhat negates this however - e.g you can pay exactly $146.47 by transferring 0.30173852BTC (or whatever it works out to).
I think as people come to terms with this, LTC acceptance is dropped - it was fluctuating around 15-20 for a period of some months but dropped to around $10 when BTC did in May, however it has not recovered again while BTC has.
I somewhat agree with one trader/analysts theory of the price movements to come based on the Gartner's 'hype cycle' referenced in this article http://www.coindesk.com/market-monthly-stable-bitcoin/
"Maybe bitcoin’s price needs more than good news. After all, people need time to figure out world-changing, disruptive technologies like bitcoin. Positive newsflow in the interim isn’t going to help the world adapt to our bitcoin future, no matter how many computers Dell sells.
That’s what Joe Lee, a trader and founder of bitcoin derivatives exchange BTC.s (http://www.coindesk.com/tag/btc.sx/)x, thinks is going on.
“The price is stagnant because we’re going through a trough of technology adoption for crypto currencies, where the world is working how to take it,” he said, citing technology research firm Gartner’s theory of a technology adoption ‘hype cycle’.
Gartner’s hype cycle, which comes complete with interactive chart (http://www.gartner.com/technology/research/methodologies/hype-cycle.jsp), is a fancier way of saying that all that positive news is going to take time to sink into people’s minds. In Gartner-speak, we went over the Peak of Inflated Expectations in January, when the price was soaring, and now we’re headed into the Trough of Disillusionment."
6051
Hi Clip, thanks for posting, a couple of things from the article that stood out for me as a cynic.
BTC is described as an efficient payment system with less costs than currency, however they make money by doing the following. Surely is is the cost right here, it may not be direct, however it dilutes the number of BTC.
Digitall CC is the in business of authorising bitcoin payments between others, a process known to the tech gurus as “mining”.
The other is, after a two hour interview they still couldn't identify the ultimate business model. Guys like this I'm sure will make a lot of money, although some may go bust. However he is right at the forefront of this, sort of like first in first out. And just because he is taking it so seriously to give up the playboy lifestyle isn't really here nor there. Perth is the perfect place for him its a boom / bust town & there are plenty of get rich quick personalities to get pulled in or market such ideas.
BC, to date I have put up with a few of your cracks re SOC, mate I feel for you, however you made your own decisions, bought at a level that I thought was far too high initially & then kept doubling up & I even dropped you a PM warning you about doing this. So mate, I hate to be harsh & I sincerely hope you get your money back, but suck it up & take responsibility for your own decisions. Cheers Daytr
To address your points - BTC is an efficient payment system with less costs for transferring currency than current methods of bank/wire transfers etc. One of the ways they make money is by mining - when you transfer BTC to someone else, the transaction goes into the queue/list of transactions, which is processed by miners solving algorithmic problems to confirm that transaction. Miners are rewarded by 'winning' bitcoins for solving the equations. That is one part of how DCC makes their money. They are one of the largest miners in the world and as such their reward/the amount of bitcoins they 'find' or mine are of a greater percentage.
It was meant to be a 45 minute interview but blew out to 2 hours - I imagine whoever the reporter was, they did not understand enough about how bitcoin works/what DCC's aims are to generate enough valuable content in 45 minutes, so a lot of the 2 hours would have been spent explaining just how it all works. In terms of the ultimate business model, DCC want to create a secure service/platform for every day users to make bitcoin accessible. So, an app on your phone/computer where you can easily transfer dollars to a bank account, and near instantly receive bitcoin in your wallet program that you can then use to purchase services/products - avoiding the 2.5% credit card fee. The thing with bitcoin is that if you keep a number on your computer, unless you know what you are doing (which many 'every day users' or mums and dads do not) is keeping them safe. I don't remember the article I read this from but I quote 'Things that are easy are not secure, and generally things that are secure are not easy'. You cannot expect mums and dads to understand encryption, cold storage of bitcoin, and adequately protect themselves from having their bitcoins stolen/compromised through things like computer viruses or even social hacking.
DCC also keep a portion of their coins as bitcoin used for trading purposes (from memory currently between 3000-4000BTC) - whether that be liquidating BTC into another alt coin that is currently spiking in price, or selling into an upsurge in BTC price then buying again on a down turn. BTC liquidity has been dropping lately but it is still very volatile, sometimes rising or dropping $US20 in the space of an hour - when you are sitting on $1.8m of bitcoins that makes for some very large spreads to generate profits on. There is also a lag in bitcoin prices between exchanges - the fact that bitcoin transfers near instantly (within 10 seconds generally) means if you identify a $5 difference between asks/sells across exchanges, you can sell your coins on one exchange, instant transfer to the other one and buy them back $5 cheaper again - 3000btc kept for trading/liquidity could mean an easy $15,000 for a 30 second window of buying and selling. You would need to be very on the ball and have a high speed internet connection/large bank of computers and monitors to be able to capitalize on this, which I have no doubt that DCC do have
Daytr
27-07-2014, 04:27 PM
Hi Clip, I won't respond to all your post, however what you supply is alot of supposition with very little hard facts. Basically with this company you are backing the man behind it to be smartest guy in the room & maybe he is, who knows, I certainly don't know him. The bottom of your post describes arbitrage, which is something that any & all traders look out for but rarely can profit from in scale, as the market they trade in is too efficient & the arbitrage normally closes very quickly for the very reasons you describe. So if he is intending for this to be a component of profit generation, it means that BTC is a very inefficient market as I have already alluded to, or this area of profiteering wont last very long. This company may be an absolute blinder of a investment, however it comes with substantial & unknown risk, so as long as you are willing to ware that, that's fine & as I've said I wish you every bit of luck with it.
I will finish with three things though that IMO should ring alarm bells.
1) yes one of the flaws is that anyone can launch an alternative. Sure BTC at this point is the most successful, however that doesn't mean someone doesn't create a better version & damn it I'm left holding these digital coins which are just pictures on a screen with an ID number.
2) And I think this is where it could really get unstuck. For BTC to work in the long term people need to value encryption as this is the value actually backing the currency . A lot of the reason these digital currencies started to become popular is due to government monitoring of data, hackers, WikiLeaks etc. I get a tech based newsletter & it stated that data had been transmitted the same way since basically the inception of the internet & its very simplistic nature of transmission has made data very easy to intercept, hence the need for encryption to make it harder for intercepted data to be actually read. Well thanks to a bunch of geniuses out of MIT that is all about to change & will revolutionize the internet transmission that will not only travel something like 10 times faster, it will also send data from one transmission in multiple directions & no single packet of data containing the full set. The data will also he encoded anyway as the norm as its easier to send the data in a formula than in its original form. Currently if some data doesn't arrive i.e there is a piece of the puzzle missing the internet speed halves as it is programmed to think the cause of the missing data is traffic volume, when in fact its likely to be just a hiccup . The new system also gets around this as if a piece of data is missing, the formula then knows to solve for what's missing & re-create the missing piece. This new mode of data transmission is said to be available on the 5G network, we are currently only just started seeing the 4G network. I am sure that over time this sort of data transmission will be easily intercepted to, however it has taken 40 years to get to this point with the current mode, perhaps it will take at least 10 years before this new technology is susceptible, like the current system. Either way, this new system would be something I would certainly be interested in investing in!
3) There seems to be a lot of trust in regards how many will ever be created, as there is no government or regulator behind it, really what's the consequences for someone to actually just break their 'promise'. We see it enough in the real world with banks getting away with breaking the rules which actually have a rule of law, let alone what could go on behind the scene in the virtual world. If you are a smart hacker, I mean really smart, who's to know who is creating their own or effectively counterfeiting them.
Cheers Daytr
rbel038
27-07-2014, 08:30 PM
Arbitrage does exist in bitcoin markets but the spread has been steadily narrowing for some time. Traders are currently doing this but the profits are nowhere near what they use to be. Counterfeiting or double spending as it is known in bitcoin is very very difficult, as the bitcoin network effectively votes each time a transaction occurs to say if it is valid or not, you need to take control of 51% of the entire network to guarantee you can perform a fraudulent spend.
its a very well thought out method to remove any requirement for trust in financial transactions. You can review every single transaction ever made and who paid who by reviewing what is known as the block chain. Not too many banks I know off that open the books to you for inspection.
Bugs in the protocol might be found but I think completely breaking open the encryption protocol of SHA256 which bitcoin uses will not happen before it is upgraded to something else. If SHA256 is broken then bitcoin will be useless , along with your online banking and stock portfolios and really big security issues online.
Daytr
28-07-2014, 09:21 AM
Hi rbel038, what are your thoughts on my 2nd point above in regards a major change in the way data will be transmitted & the effect this would have on BTC? Could this actually make BTC redundant?
JBmurc
28-07-2014, 09:50 AM
BC, to date I have put up with a few of your cracks re SOC, mate I feel for you, however you made your own decisions, bought at a level that I thought was far too high initially & then kept doubling up & I even dropped you a PM warning you about doing this. So mate, I hate to be harsh & I sincerely hope you get your money back, but suck it up & take responsibility for your own decisions. Cheers Daytr
Bit sensitive on the matter then I see Daytr ...I was just putting across that I personal didn't see DCC any more risky at present than the likes of SOC .....which at the time I first brought you wouldn't say was really over valued on what was known aka Conceptual Exploration Target of 3.2-4.6Moz Au / 770koz resource ....
Daytr
28-07-2014, 10:13 AM
Sorry JB, I didn't realize I was your investment advisor. I'm not sensitive at all, but I know a snipe when I see one. JB, I sold at circa 24c whilst you bought. It was always hugely speculative as I openly stated on many occasions & yes I didn't predict that management would stitch up shareholders, although I wasn't prepared to continually double up, as I knew the risk of this sort investment, which is exactly what I am again & I repeat, again am doing here. But by all means don't look at all the angles & questions & if Dell is accepting BTC, all must be sweet!
rbel038
28-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Hi rbel038, what are your thoughts on my 2nd point above in regards a major change in the way data will be transmitted & the effect this would have on BTC? Could this actually make BTC redundant?
I think it sounds like a great idea and would certainly make intercepting data useless without having control of the senders computer in the first place. Regarding BTC I dont see how it should have any effect, bitcoin is essentially a trustless system of computers that vote on the validity of transactions. The actual method of transmission could always change , what we are interested in is the end result, the same as you buying your milk at the local dairy...that you paid the man $3.00 and you got your milk. I.e the transaction was completed and was not fraudelent.
I guess I should mention that for me the aspect of a global currency is not the real star for me , but rather the underlying network design of bitcoin. You remove the currency aspect and replace it with equity in a company , by providing computational power...Imagine for instance PEB's datamining activities being conducted by a distributed network, where each participant earns something for their work. Quite exciting I think.
Currency I think is like the beta test for this kind of tech.
Cheers
JBmurc
28-07-2014, 11:14 AM
Sorry JB, I didn't realize I was your investment advisor. I'm not sensitive at all, but I know a snipe when I see one. JB, I sold at circa 24c whilst you bought. It was always hugely speculative as I openly stated on many occasions & yes I didn't predict that management would stitch up shareholders, although I wasn't prepared to continually double up, as I knew the risk of this sort investment, which is exactly what I am again & I repeat, again am doing here. But by all means don't look at all the angles & questions & if Dell is accepting BTC, all must be sweet!
LOL ......yeah right
Daytr
28-07-2014, 01:36 PM
rbel038, pardon my ignorance here, but isn't BTC underlying value based on encryption, encryption of data? What you describe re the value of verifying transactions is the equivalent of perpetual motion i.e. it creates its own value? Anyway back to what I was saying, if the way data is transmitted changes significantly as is being suggested & is sophisticated enough that encryption isn't required, well at least for a while, then doesn't this nullify the underlying value of BTC?
I think it sounds like a great idea and would certainly make intercepting data useless without having control of the senders computer in the first place. Regarding BTC I dont see how it should have any effect, bitcoin is essentially a trustless system of computers that vote on the validity of transactions. The actual method of transmission could always change , what we are interested in is the end result, the same as you buying your milk at the local dairy...that you paid the man $3.00 and you got your milk. I.e the transaction was completed and was not fraudelent.
I guess I should mention that for me the aspect of a global currency is not the real star for me , but rather the underlying network design of bitcoin. You remove the currency aspect and replace it with equity in a company , by providing computational power...Imagine for instance PEB's datamining activities being conducted by a distributed network, where each participant earns something for their work. Quite exciting I think.
Currency I think is like the beta test for this kind of tech.
Cheers
rbel038
28-07-2014, 05:34 PM
I can see what you are saying , but in my opinion the underlying value of BTC is not that it is 'encrypted' but rather that the system is 'trustless'. An example of what I mean below:
Say your perfect internet system that is 100% secure is implemented and we no longer have the need for encryption. Thats great however your USD / NZD etc is still sent through a central clearing house / trusted banker / broker etc. Your money is still held in their accounts , flowing through their system and completely a 'black box' as to what they do with your money.
Bitcoin is decentralized, the transactions occur as per the rules of the system, and so the need for a trusted central party is eliminated.
I have also taken the view that if you consider the idea of bitcoin useful, then fundamentally the value should alteast be the electrical cost of mining. Interesting is that although the profit margin for mining is diminishing more and more , the network's mining rate is increasing... so there is some divergence currently going on, and one would expect either the cost to coin to increase or the miners switching off their equipment.
JBmurc
28-07-2014, 07:45 PM
BTC down to $577 USD .,seems good support 33.5c-34c
Daytr
28-07-2014, 08:35 PM
Understood, Rbel038, & basically this is what I thought you meant. I personally don't see a future for BTC just because its outside the normal system, particularly with the volatility in value that it has. Encryption I think is perhaps where a future if any lies for BTC. But good luck & I'm sure there will be opportunities to trade that volatility. Cheers Daytr
Not liking the look of the current downtrend in BTC price. Will be taking some shares off the table over the next couple of days (perhaps 50% of holdings) as the stock also tends to be somewhat news flow orientated, and there has not been as much interest in it as I would have thought there would be by now. Other 50% going in the bottom drawer. May/expect to buy back in if BTC price trends upwards or people start taking interest/buying in again
JBmurc
30-07-2014, 09:28 AM
Yes certainly on the watchlist have yet to take a position ....
OutToLunch
30-07-2014, 09:59 AM
My other half has just taken a small position, purely as a speculative punt. There's enough doubt still circulating around BTC to keep a lid on DCC at the moment, but I am intrigued that large companies such as Dell have started to accept Bitcoin payments -- so BTC may be in the early stages of becoming mainstream. Depending on the fate for BTC as a currency I expect DCC could eventually be trading for either many times its current price, or just a tiny fraction. Hence the punt, just for fun.
Another reasonable drop in BTC price overnight on substantial volume, not sure what's going on as yet. Took a 1/3 of my holding off the table yesterday at 34c, the price of DCC went up further in the afternoon which I missed out on, interested to see what happens today. Will be down at mountain fri-mon so don't want to be out of 3g recep if it all turns to poo hah
Daytr
31-07-2014, 02:09 PM
I assume you guys have seen this. This is the 2nd digital currency I have seen in the last week that is talking about being backed by gold. See what I mean by backing the right horse being one of the issues. Remember Barter Card? Anyone know if that still exists?
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-30/ripple-and-anthem-vault-combine-gold-with-bitcoin-style-currency?
Preliminary final report to be released at 3.26pm
They also released an update this week about a new agreement for datacenter housing their mining equipment in Iceland which equates to a 40% reduction in power costs, which goes straight to profits from bitcoin mining operations. Interested to see the figures soon to come
Analyst report released by TSI (The Sophisticated Investor) available here http://www.digitalbtc.com/analyst-reports/
that page just has a summary of the report/what it covers, looks like free registration to the site is required to view it
base case valuation $1.04, upside valuation $1.68
Daytr
04-09-2014, 08:01 PM
Not seeing a lot in the press about BTC lately. A fad that is already on the wane?
Daytr
04-09-2014, 08:56 PM
Hey Clip, do you understand the $10M loss in DCC accounts for a 'reverse' take over?
Who did they buy from? A related party? I realize its a non cash item i.e. accounting adjustment, but where is the offsetting?
Cheers Daytr
Hey Daytr, it was from March when they did the reverse takeover of MEJ.ASX to list
Daytr
05-09-2014, 09:30 AM
Sure, but they say its a non cash item? Was this reflecting the cash paid for MEJ prior to DCC listing?
Who was MEJ? Are they a related party or was their any cross ownership? What were they buying for $10M? It just seems odd to me that you would pay that sort of money if it was just a backdoor listing. Or did they pick up assets such as computer hardware or BTC holdings as well?
Okebw
05-09-2014, 10:28 AM
My understanding of bitcoins is tenuous at best, but from what I understand they're limited to a total of 20,000,000 or so ever correct?
Does anyone know how many have been mined so far and the subsequent life expectancy of DCC?
Hi Daytr, my findings:
The consolidated loss after tax for the period ended 30 June 2014 was US$11,116,845. The loss is impacted mainly by the non-cash accounting expense for the acquisition of Digital CC Holdings Pty Ltd (Digital CC Holdings or digitalBTC) of US$10,918,065. Refer to note 18 of the preliminary final report for an explanation of the accounting treatment for the acquisition.
Pertinent pieces from Note 18:
NOTE 18: CONTROLLED ENTITIES
The Acquisition did not meet the definition of a business combination in accordance with AASB 3 Business Combinations as Digital CC was deemed for accounting purposes not to be a business and, therefore, the transaction is not a business combination within the scope of AASB 3. Instead the acquisition has been accounted for as a share-based payment transaction using the principles of share based payment transactions in AASB 2, and in particular the guidance in AASB 102 that any difference in the fair value of the shares issued by the accounting acquirer (Digital CC Holdings) and the fair value of the accounting acquiree’s (Digital CC (formerly Macro Energy Limited) identifiable net assets represents a service received by Digital CC Holdings, including payment for a service of an ASX stock exchange listing.
Digital CC Limited is the legal acquirer of Digital CC Holdings Pty Ltd in this transaction and the consideration for the acquisition was the issue by Digital CC Limited of:
(i) 82,764,655 fully paid ordinary shares in Digital CC Limited. By analogy to reverse asset acquisition accounting principles the consideration is deemed to have been incurred by Digital CC Holdings Pty Ltd in the form of equity instruments issued to Digital CC Limited shareholders. The acquisition date fair value of the consideration has been determined with reference to the fair value of the issued shares of Digital CC Limited immediately prior to the acquisition and has been determined to be $10,095,395;
(ii) 8,316,710 unlisted options to acquire fully paid ordinary shares in Digital CC Limited each exercisable at $0.28 on or before 30 June 2016, valued at $0.153 using the binomial valuation method and totalling $1,179,620. This amount has been included as part of the consideration for the transaction;
Fair value of Digital CC Limited on 6 June 2014
10,095,395
8,316,710 unlisted options
1,179,620
16,633,420 Class A Performance Rights
1,543,530
8,316,710 Class B Performance Rights
110,252
Fair value of options issued by Macro Energy Limited prior to acquisition
642,360
Total value of consideration
13,571,157
Legal fee costs of $374,429 incurred by Digital CC Holdings in relation to the merger have been expensed.
The fair value of acquired net assets and the resulting expense are as follows:
6-Jun-14
US$
Identifiable assets acquired
Cash on hand
727,445
Receivable
263,870
Prepayments
278,692
Property, plant and equipment
2,151
Loan to Digital CC Holdings
1,895,229
Payables
(410,748)
Rehabilitation Provision
(103,547)
NET ASSETS ACQUIRED
2,653,092
Consideration paid
13,571,157
Expense recognised on acquisition
10,918,065
---------
so, the $10.9m expense recognised for the acquisition/takeover/reverse listing as MEJ.ASX became DCC.ASX
MEJ was a mining company Macro Energy Limited - it was previously VIL.ASX (I do not know much about them)
Okebw - currently mined bitcoins are approx 13,223,350 out of total 21,000,000
DCC have been recycling/upgrading their mining hardware - that is, as newer generation/more powerful mining hardware comes out, they sell their current/old hardware (at a profit, as home miners will gladly pay for the hardware, and i imagine do not receive the bulk discount DCC get for 1) buying in bulk e.g. $2m worth at a time, and b) do not have the agreement DCC have with BitFury to purchase the mining equipment).
DCC also have the advantage of their equipment being housed in a datacenter in iceland which provides cheap power, a guaranteed cost of power so no fluctations, and reduced cooling costs as the datacenter uses the environment for cooling e.g. the ice cold wind that flows around the datacenter is utilized for cooling.
The current estimate of the last bitcoin being mined is 2140 based on the difficulty algorithm - that is, the reward for solving blocks/algorithms (the process of mining bitcoins) halves every 4 years. Currently when you solve a block you are rewarded 50 bitcoins. When the next 4 year period starts, you will receive 25 bitcoins for solving a block, and so on.
As long as DCC continue to refresh/upgrade hardware as newer generation mining hardware becomes available, they will continue to remain profitable from that aspect of their business. Their main business plan is to create a bitcoin wallet/app for smartphones which will allow people to securely and easily, transfer money between FIAT/bitcoin and easily spend it at supported stores. E.g. you go to the shop, instead of paying with cash/eftpos, you scan a QR code (like a barcode) and say the cost of the product is $20, it will deduct 0.0415484 bitcoin from your account (at current exchange rate).
As the BTC/USD exchange rate is continuously fluctuating, their app will perform an on-the-fly conversion and deduct x btc from your account according to the cost of the product. The retailer can choose to receive the straight BTC and convert it at their will, or use one of a number of currently available services that instantly convert it on receipt, so they receive straight FIAT as opposed to BTC
----------
volume looking a lot better since the coverage initiated, equal buyers and sellers today (has been 200k/600k most of the past few weeks). I am picking we will see 30c fall by mid next week
Daytr
05-09-2014, 02:14 PM
Thanks Clip, so the question that is pretty obvious, why did they pay $13.5M for a company of net assets of $2.6M?
They forked out several million for their own hardware so what did they acquire besides the assets?
Was there a stream of revenue they also bought or was it just the backdoor listing? If it was the backdoor listing they paid around $10.5 million too much.
So who was the beneficiary?
The more I read about these guys the dodgier they appear.
How would I go about finding that out? I don't believe there was a stream of revenue no, just the listing - I will try dig up some more info if you can advise me what kind of information I should be looking for, that's more than I am knowledgable about. Might post it over on hotcopper to try get an answer for you (and for me!)
Daytr
05-09-2014, 08:50 PM
I've had a bit of a look, but couldn't find anything. I imagine it would have been in their prospectus. It may be legit, but its such a big item, you think it would be spelt out. They say its a non cash item so an accounting entry only, however I suspect its to reflect the payment made prior to listing, but I'm not sure of that. After reading more reports they have issued I am even more dubious. There appears to be a lot of fluff but not substance. They also have some fairly large rights issues due in the coming years. To me everything about seems overly complex & I makes me suspicious. Anyway I'm not advising anyone & perhaps I just don't understand it & as such will keep well clear & happy to forgo the next big thing if it works out that way. I'll certainly be interested though on how it pans out.
So I still follow this stock - I exited around October last year when SP continued to fall and I had expected them to progress business operations from mining to other fintech products sooner. A bit naiive in that respect I think in terms of how long they may have been working on the now-announced products to get them closer to launch-readiness before showing their hand/or giving away their products. And now they are starting to execute their longer-term business strategy (e.g. not just mining bitcoins - considering that is unprofitable at current bitcoin prices regardless) I am back in again. I have gained some trust in the management as to me they are starting to show they are executing their strategy as stated - start off with bitcoin mining to fund future operations. (As of last/this month they had around $2.5m cash at hand or in bitcoins)
I also think tech-funds/banks/early adopters are now starting to see the true attraction of this new technology is not bitcoin as such but the underlying secure ledger of the 'blockchain' (some reading about how this can impact the finance/remittances industry - I find this a good read http://www.economistinsights.com/technology-innovation/analysis/money-no-middleman/tab/1).
So what have they been doing for the past while.. They've released beta version of 'Mintsy' in collaboration with Cryptsy, one of the largest bitcoin/cryptocurrency exchanges (like the NZX, but for bitcoin, litecoin, all the differenttypes etc). Mintsy allows you to rent mining power to mine bitcoins, host your mining rig for lower power costs than you could find elsewhere, host your mining rig and allow you to rent that out to other users. Not a lot of exciting stuff there really but gets exposure all the same, from the March quarterly announcement - over 30,000 pre-enrollments since late 2014, helped by promotion from Cryptsy to it's 250,000+ registered users.
They have made DigitalX Direct available to institutional investors & large commercial operators, to provide real-time liquidity for bitcoin trading. As the platform provides the liquidity, it is not so much affected by the price of bitcoin but more so by the volume of bitcoin traded, which is still growing thus far.
Now for the interesting products..
DigitalX Pocket (may just be called Pocket now? Hard to tell) - smartphone/mobile application that provides instant transfer of funds to anywhere in the world, no need to worry about buying/selling/storing bitcoins - DCC handle all that in the background through their DigitalX Direct liquidity platform.
AirPocket - instant, low-cost peer-to-peer cash transactions - this is the big one
This month DCC announced plans to move into the global remittances market.
Recommend reading the presentation/announcement from 18th of May http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150518/pdf/42ymq3tvkplpg5.pdf
This is a BIG market (approx $500bn/yr currently and growing) and DCC thus far are planning to have a beta version of their product AirPocket ready for launch by end of Q2 (hopefully end of June). If they can get this out to the market on schedule they will have first-mover advantage - such as the likes of uber, airbnb etc. This is partly massive due to the peer-to-peer possibilities of international remittances/money transfers (disrupting credit unions, wire transfers etc). This is positioned to be massive in developing nations/rural areas which currently lack reliable money transmitters.
How does it work? I'm just going to copy paste from the announcement here because i'm lazy
AirPocket Agents (“AirAgents”) are vetted and have a funded AirPocket account. The Sender locates an AirAgent through the application’s mapping interface and approaches them with the cash they intend to send. The AirAgent accepts the cash and through their account with AirPocket sends the equivalent amount through the application. The transaction is recorded on the Blockchain ledger, providing secure, incorruptible, persistent and decentralised storage and verification. This eliminates large overheads associated with the maintenance of the platform and regulatory reporting for digitalBTC.
Once the AirAgent has sent the funds, the sender receives a code (“AirCode”) via an SMS, which they send onto the Recipient. The Recipient then locates an AirAgent in their country and provides them with the AirCode, which credits the AirAgent’s account. The AirAgent then provides the recipient with the cash in their local currency.
The fees to send currency are significantly lower than average fees paid by the Sender using other remittance channels. This is due to the low cost mobile peer-to-peer technology implementation as well as the use of the Blockchain technology to store transaction records. The fees are distributed between digitalBTC and the two AirAgents. On average the AirPocket fees are around half that of existing providers such as WesternUnion, MoneyGram, WellsFargo. Compliant with Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, Dept of U.S Treasury, adheres to Anti-Money Laundering standards. So no laundering cartel money in and out of the states. By utilizing the blockchain as underlying ledger, these international transfers can be processed instantly, 24 hours a day.
Potential warning sign - Capital raise last week - this came as a surprise to me. while I was expecting they had enough cash on hand to continue funding development/operations until the end of 2015 (my guesstimate based on previous newsflow), they did a CR this week - went into TH at closing price of 0.285, were seeking $3m - they raised 3.5m at 0.22 adding 15.9m shares to the register (and had one us tech-fund bid for the whole $3m placement which was not accepted by DCC). Since then SP has held up above the CR price which imo looks to position them well for SP increase over the next month as beta version of AirPocket release date nears. Next week or two will tell - according to the chartists on HC it is in a rising channel, I don't follow the TI too much. I could also be very wrong and the recent SP increase could be a huge pump & dump effort on hotcopper - not that uncommon from my lurking on these forums, DYOR!
Additional credit to their proposal/business strategy - MoU/agreement signed with partners to form a JV to facilitate distribution of AirPocket in Latin America & Caribbean (to START with)
http://digitalbtc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/digitalBTC-Signs-MoU-for-AirPocket-Distribution-in-Latin-America-and-the-Caribbean.pdf
See page 20/21 on the AirPocket investor presentation pdf on asx.com link above - also listed under Pre-launch - Establish further distribution partnerships in additional regions. So I am hoping we will see news flow by the end of June of additional JVC's. Page 21 plans to expand it to India & rest of Asia eventually which could be massive.
I think the success of AirPocket is going to really rest on consumer uptake/trust in the system, and establishment of registered AirPocket Agents being available in enough locations (i'm thinking they will need to be, say, everywhere - multiple AirAgents in every city in the target markets, with good PR campaigns/strategies associated with each of those cities).
Still very speculative now, but for me this has de-risked somewhat/enough for me to get back in, with I think some potential
Charting from reuters site http://i.imgur.com/XyWGwZ2.jpg - I see they (Reuters) have released a 10page analyst research report snapshot as of 22.05.15 also which I am considering buying to get a bit more of an idea of how disruptive/successful overseas markets think this could potentially be (https://commerce.us.reuters.com/purchase/showReportDetail.do?docid=67071650)
rbel038
23-05-2015, 04:05 PM
Still got my parcel clip :D i bought on the way down but must admit that portfolio took a bit of a hit at 8cent low , currently just below my 26cent avg.
They really have to get the marketing correct and user experience tailored to the south american market. The product is a good one but I will certainly be watching on how quick the uptake is with this new CR round. They have to deliver on the accelerated roll out they have promised with the CR.
The remittance market is absolutely mind-blowingly big , if they really can pull it off next year the SP should be in triple figures. If not then ive made a bad punt :D
Really is an all or nothing company
hillbillybob
25-05-2015, 09:42 AM
I've been in this since VIL, MEJ ?? and now DCC. Only still here as the shares still I hold have been diluted so much they are not worth selling. But now with this new direction the co; has I am again interested to see what happens. ??? S/p went up to 32.5 last week but failed on no demand and has fallen to 25c. it may again go down to the CR price of 22c ??? I intend to buy around these levels and see if I can't recoup my original capital, which was only $1500.
Daytr
17-01-2016, 09:40 AM
This thread seems to have died. How is DCC travelling?
I see Bitcoin is below $400 USD despite the carnage n mainstream markets.
I also saw that one of the main investors / advocates of Bitcoin has sold out.
Clip what's your thoughts?
Apologies for late reply. Bitcoin price may be falling but still 30% up on 6months ago. However, that is no longer important, DCC have continued to deliver as per their proclaimed business plan, in that they are no longer a mining company but have used that revenue to create their global remittance application based on blockchain technology. It is currently progressing through beta testing and is expected to be launched with big name partners shortly (5 weeks if I recall correctly). I rewrote/edited this post and wrote this part after the rest of it, so sorry if thoughts are a little muddled.
Full discl, I have basically cashed up everything last year, sold out of DCC on the way down around 20c (likely silly). Just when I think they are not performing well and are late with announcements, newsflow or not delivering according to their stated plan, they come out and surprise me. Their AirPocket application for global remittance using the blockchain (think of instant, international money-transfers with basically 0.1% fee's, DCC will charge the users or 'Air Agents' a higher fee than their 0.1% cost) is progressing well through beta testing, and within the next 2 months we are likely to see an announcement regarding partnership with big name partners.
Positive news from the quarterly - "Digital X, formerly Digital CC, has posted a positive operating cash flow of $410,000 for the first half of FY2016 following its decision to ditch bitcoin mining in October."
I like this post: http://hotcopper.com.au/posts/16899460/single
I have not kept a close enough eye on their developments recently to really feel confident posting any more information, however chart is turning, it would appear to be in a 2 month uptrend now, hotcopper interest is most definitely picking up. For a bit of an overview about what's happened recently (quarterly, recent newsflow etc) I suggest reading these threads. Be aware/careful of the usual hotcopper ramping etc:
http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/cable-and-wireless-jorge-nicolau.2517625/
http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/ann-december-2015-quarterly-report-appendix-4c.2688752/
http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/chart.2578014/
Unrelated, but another thread you may be interested in Daytr (investment thread in business section of a gaming forum we use, last 2 posts in the thread from myself and and another poster with some of our thoughts/musings about speccie picks or potentially worth research on ASX for 2016 http://www.gpforums.co.nz/threads/485392-Investment-Basics/page18)
OutToLunch
17-02-2016, 01:32 PM
Hmmm.... getting interesting now
Global Telecommunications Giant wants DigitalX’s Airpocket for its 100 million users
It’s not every day that a multi-billion dollar gorilla comes knocking and nothing supercharges the share price of a small-cap stock quite like a deal with a global giant. There is a select group of emerging tech companies that have pulled off this big feat and their shareholders have reaped big rewards. The latest to join this prestigious club is the ASX’s exclusive Blockchain-based, software solutions company DigitalX Ltd (ASX: DCC).
DigitalX has signed a transformational deal with one of the largest telecommunications companies in the world that will give over 100 million mobile phone users access to instant, international money transfers via DigitalX’s AirPocket app. The app will allow users in North America to transfer funds directly into mobile phone accounts of friends and family in 12 Latin American countries.
The revenue opportunity from the partnership is huge as DigitalX will earn an 11% gross margin on the value of the recharge, which can range from between US$2 and US$70 per transaction.
Shares in DigitalX may have performed strongly and in volume over the past year, but history has shown that stocks like this will re-rate several times over the medium term. Given that this is the first of several lucrative deals apparently in the pipeline, the stock may have a long way to run yet and many investors eyes are already on it!
https://digitalx.com/wp-content/upl...cess_to_100m_Users_Via_Global_Telco_Deal-.pdf (https://digitalx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AirPocket_Gains_Access_to_100m_Users_Via_Global_Te lco_Deal-.pdf)
Joshuatree
20-06-2016, 09:07 PM
Been a Down drifting crabby couple of years chartwise for DCC.Some early adopting pioneers get the arrows in the back unfort..DCC is still here though, now with Air pocket, Block chain , MOU. JV'setc and looks a far more int company but still burning cash; cap raise close by the looks.
Joshuatree
21-06-2016, 12:01 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/australian-bitcoin-founder-quietly-bidding-130624335.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/australian-bitcoin-founder-quietly-bidding-130624335.html
Turned out to be fake, found this thread from: http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?10558-Cryptocurrencies/page2&highlight=DCC.
Considering picking up some of these as I'm a big believer in blockchain tech. Any holders with any insight?
showstring
25-07-2016, 05:05 PM
RIP DCC I think...
It's been known for a while that founder Eugeni "Zhenya" Tsvetnenko is a bit of a fraudster.
his previous fraudulent company back in 2006 - https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-raises-concerns-over-misleading-personal-introduction-service
now he's up to his old tricks again
http://www.lawfuel.com/blog/additional-defendants-indicted-multimillion-dollar-text-messaging-fraud/
full court document - https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/file/878556/download
Looks quite major bad, and I wouldn't be surprised if all partners pulled out of the deals with DCC over this.
Who would want to deal with a payment processing company that has a scamming founder?
Not taking into account all the Bitcoin challenges on their own...
gluck to holders
JBmurc
25-07-2016, 07:16 PM
certainly a rush to the exits today and no doubt for the rest of the week ...hope fallow ST holders have stop-losses in place
Joshuatree
25-07-2016, 08:54 PM
Anyone get caught with this?. Be int to hear your experience for others to learn from. It can be hard to sell a stock you put your hopes in or believe in but its the most important lesson imo, taking the hit and crystallising a loss to salvage as much dosh as you can to work hard for you elsewhere. Rbel038, hillbillybob anyone else like to share re an exit strategy e.g. stop loss set , missing targets,continual negative cash-flow and company spin for example.? Good move clip bailing when you did.
OutToLunch
26-07-2016, 09:57 AM
Yes I got caught. Luckily I saw the announcement the moment it came out. I dropped my entire holding immediately & managed to get out at 11.5 (25% loss) just after open, but unfortunately wasn't able to get the message through to my other half in time so she still has hers. I think selling on any rise is prob the best move now as DCC could have a hard time getting any credibility back after this. Would be surprised if Telefonica didn't bail. Only hope really is if the market sees value in the BTC trading platform and Airpocket themselves, but I think DCC's future as a company in its present form is pretty well shot.
Wow, this is savage - gltah with getting out at not too great a loss. I don't think I would have picked up this news as haven't had DCC near my radar probably my last post in this thread/not long after I sold out, still kept an eye on HC for a while. Just had a look, things are quite salty over there currently
/edit interested to see what the letter to shareholders ann today will say and if/how it affects SP!
showstring
28-07-2016, 08:45 AM
either:
1. the market over-reacted and Zhenya's scam does not have an impact on DCC's business, and everything will be fine
or
2. selling paused for a few days to bring in a false sense of hope and allow a better exit price
will be interesting to see how this will play out...
been thinking about it, and I can't call it.
too many unknowns in the equation, but I've learned you can't take things are face value in this market (aka, letter to shareholders update)
just look at XTV as an example
One big thing to consider however - Zhenya's legal cost (or a fine?) will be high no doubt, and he holds millions of shares in DCC and TMP... when he has to sell out, it won't be pretty.
I think his shares are still in escrow, so this may take years to play out, which will probably have a negative impact on DCC/TMP shares because who would want to buy in taking into account an almost inevitable looming forced sale of millions of shares by a major board member / owner / founder?
karlos68
31-08-2017, 09:46 AM
I reckon this rally is done.
Hit level of resistance and overbought on RSI.
9121
karlos68
31-08-2017, 07:07 PM
Yeah........just as I thought.
9122
Down 27.3%
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