Snowball Effect

[silverblizzard888]

This seems like a pretty cool idea and its going to be a reality in May. Thought quite a few people on here might find this quite an interesting prospect.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9921584/Cash-strapped-firms-seek-Snowball-Effect

https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/home

[robbo24]

Think of all the mini Snakks and mini Sorensons this will create.. Woohoo!!!

[couta1]

Think of all the mini Snakks and mini Sorensons this will create.. Woohoo!!!
Sounds like a Mega way to lose Mega money:cool:

[Harvey Specter]

I posted this on another forum here as I wasn't sure if it fitted under 'NZX'.

It will be interesting to see what companies they attract - will it be social investing or angel investing.

I have signed up and may take a few small punts for fun it I think they have growth potential.

[Minerbarejet]

Think I will lay in a supply of rattlesnake venom antidote. Now, there's an idea!- wonder if I could get funding for that.

[MAC]

I would be very interested actually in a platform like this if they were to hold those seeking investment to providing a minimum standard of market research, information disclosure and numerical guidance or compulsory goal setting.

As it is this is really way too risky to touch, locking ones investment up without ease in finding an exit when or if so required may otherwise be acceptable with sufficient information to assess risk.

However, this statement from their website is enough for me to say ‘not a snowballs chance in hell of investing through this vehicle’.

“New Zealand law normally requires people who offer financial products to give information to investors before they invest. This requires those offering financial products to have disclosed information that is important for investors to make an informed decision. The usual rules do not apply to offers by issuers using Snowball Effect to raise funds. As a result, you may not be given all the information usually required. You will also have fewer other legal protections for this investment.”

[Minerbarejet]

This looks like a replacement for the finance companies and we all know how that turned out.
I can probably find some spare 40 foot barge poles around here.

[couta1]

This looks like a replacement for the finance companies and we all know how that turned out.
I can probably find some spare 40 foot barge poles around here.
I wonder how many vulnerable elderly folk will get sucked in by stealth ie word of mouth from a friend of a friend

[Harvey Specter]

Snowball are being supported by Icehouse. What will be interesting to see if whether the IceAngels co-invest in any of the companies or whether they will be the companies that Icehouse (and other angel groups) reject.

If the former it might be ok - ie. Ice Angels invest $1m and they raise a further $200k on the same terms through Snowball.

If the later, it would be wise to run for the hills, and when you get tired, keep walking, and when your feet get sore, start crawling.

[BlackPeter]

Probably a bit early to trash the idea without sufficient information. What I would expect is high risk but as well high margin opportunities. From memory: 80% of all startups go broke in the first 2 years, and I expect this to happen as well with the companies listed here. The other 20% (the survivors) have a good chance to flourish. The trick will be to distinguish between the 2 groups.

silverblizzard - Thanks for sharing this link. Certainly worthwhile to keep an eye on it. Whether its worthwhile to put as well some (certainly high risk) money into it, we shall see!

[BIRMANBOY]

Sorry, they are all tied up wrangling the rattlesnakes.
This looks like a replacement for the finance companies and we all know how that turned out.
I can probably find some spare 40 foot barge poles around here.

[Schrodinger]

track record please....

[Minerbarejet]

Being called Snowball seems a bit odd. Frozen Assets perhaps or maybe watch your capital melt away.
Hark, is that your teeth chattering from the cold. Alas, No, its a r--- aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh

[Xerof]

The website appears blank on my ipad - are they in a blizzard?

[Minerbarejet]

Might be World of Warcraft

[BlackPeter]

The website appears blank on my ipad - are they in a blizzard?

drop the /home in blizzards link and try just https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz

Sometimes less is more :cool:

[BlackPeter]

relevant article on NBR:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/equity-crowd-funding-latest-step-much-hyped-social-capital-carries-risks-high-failure-rate-b

couple of things I took out of that:

the success rate of Kiwi companies using an US crowd funder (Kickstarter) is 35%. Actually better than I thought, but than - one data point is not really a trend.

12 platforms in NZ intending to compete for the crowd funding money (Snowball is one of them). This would be like having 12 stock exchanges in NZ.
In my view is this at this stage the greater risk than having a number of funded companies fail - we probably need to wait until we see which platforms (if any) have a chance to survive before committing funds.

[Harvey Specter]

That article was confusing as it mixed up equity crowdfunding and reward crowdfunding. Kickstarter is reward crowdfunding which means you dont get any equity, normally you are pre-purchasing a product, normally at a discount, or getting some other form of overpriced reward. I have done a couple of reward crowdfunding with limited success - a sleep tracker which doesn't currently work as advertised but hopefully will be fixed with a software update.

Interestingly, a reward crowdfunder in the UK raised GBP650k in less than 24 yesterday on a equity crowdfunding platform.

Regarding the 12 platforms, far to many but that isn't really an issue as once the company has raised the funds via the platform, the platform then becomes irrelevant (depending on the model) as you just have shares in the company. Having said that, the best platforms will attract the best companies as it will have most investors - almost a winner takes all model so only room for 2 max in NZ?

The main issue I see is the lack of liquidity. the options are the company fails (expected for say 50%), the company does ok but there is no liquidity event such as trade sale or listing (so what do you do there, just hold on for ever?), or hopefully you pick the winner which has a big exit, either by being taken over or IPO. There almost needs to be a 'unlisted' exchange which may be the advantage of the one in the article, since they are associated with the Unlisted market. Snowball is the other since it is associated with Icehouse so should hopefully get good deal flow to get those big exits.

[Harvey Specter]

Rippr is looking to raise an additional $160,000, or 10 per cent of equity on a $1.6 million valuation, through equity crowd funding site Snowball Effect.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/9937550/Crash-coma-resulted-in-ripper-of-an-idea

Website: http://www.rippr.co.nz/

I am guessing the company is Verace Ltd: http://www.coys.co.nz/company/?no=4552039-VERACE+LIMITED

Which means the $100k previous raised was at a $166k valuation.

[Okebw]

Anyone willing to dip their toes in?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10332088/Crowdfunding-licences-approved

Personally I'll be staying well away. The lack of disclosure required makes things far too easy to mislead/manipulate

[Harvey Specter]

I will investigate and decide on a case by case basis. The assumption at the start has to be no to invest though - the question is why havne't they sought and received funding for experienced angels/VC. These companies will no doubt be the fish that john west rejects. THe other reason is angels/PE normally provide assistant for companies - what assistance can a group of novice investors who hve only put in $100 give?

Having said that, a few in the UK have had VC invest in them via the crowdsource platform which would be a good signal.

[Jaa]

Interesting thoughts SC, you might like to check out Enterprise Angels. Looking from the outside, they seem to be more grounded.

Their current investments have a focus on NZ's traditional strengths of agriculture and biotech:
http://www.enterpriseangels.co.nz/investments.aspx

[jonu]

As I'm semi-retired but looking for a challenge and have some resources to assist and know a few people in the same position ... I like this sort of thing.

My advice to those seeking to incubate an idea in this way ... Tell a story. ... It needs to have a beginning, middle and end. And if you get a beginning ... make sure it as how you foretold it to be.

In telling the story ... Consider Kipling's poem:

I KEEP six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.

I.e. if your pitch (story) doesn't include an answer to every obvious question then I'll not waste my time. ;)

Nice Mr Belg. I'm a fan of Kipling but hadn't come across that one

[BlackPeter]

Actually - snowballeffect are now up and running - and I do like their approach and their second project: https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/the-patriarch
Clear and Concise communication - and (for laymans eyes) sensible and fair legal framework.

The project above - an experienced film team (the people who made as well "Once were warriors") needing the final 5% of their budget for an in my view quite promising new movie in the same genre.

According to their calculations (and based on the experience with the previous movie) the return should be somewhere between return of capital plus 10% (pessimistic scenario) over capital plus 100% (similar to their previous movie) and roughly 4 times capital (optimistic scenario). Obviously - things can turn pear shaped in this industry anytime, i.e. no guarantees and loosing the capital is a real risk (though IMHO lower than with some penny shares, like e.g. CRP).

Anyway - I thought it must be fun to (co-)fund a New Zealand movie and chipped in a small amount (remember - only invest money, you can afford to loose). Looking forward to the production news and using my pre-viewing rights ...

Discl: DYOR - and again, while it appears to be a professional and honest project - things can (and sometimes will) go wrong. Do not invest, if you need the money you are investing (hint - I invested roughly the amount I would otherwise spend for 4 ... 5 nice evenings spent going out with my wife ... that's a sum I can afford to loose (after due consultation with my wife, obviously).

[Harvey Specter]

The Patriarch is an interesting one. I talked to a film commission dude about it and he said the pessimistic case was almost guaranteed, though though others were a push unless it got lucky at Sundance etc. Is 20% enough of a return??? Considering some people donate to similar projects on kickstarter etc, where you get no return, it probably isn't a bad deal for the altruistic.

BlackPeter - I hope you invested $2k so you can take your wife along too.

[Harvey Specter]

I just saw on Twitter that PledgeMe will be releasing their first two Equity campaigns next week.

[Harvey Specter]

I just saw on Twitter that PledgeMe will be releasing their first two Equity campaigns next week.First one is out - a geek museum: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/17

Think they will struggle with this one - there will never be liquidity for this (no chance to grow big enough to be listed and very unlikely to be acquired) so relying on dividends which aren't big enough for the risk. Their only chance is if people view it as a donation with upside, which they may pull off sue to their larger client base from their reward platform.

[bmrm]

First one is out - a geek museum: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/17

Think they will struggle with this one - there will never be liquidity for this (no chance to grow big enough to be listed and very unlikely to be acquired) so relying on dividends which aren't big enough for the risk. Their only chance is if people view it as a donation with upside, which they may pull off sue to their larger client base from their reward platform.

Completely agree with you Harvey. Even if people see an upside to this, it is a very odd choice for the first one out the gate. Makes me think perhaps they haven't attracted the quality of offer Snowball Effect has.
Not sure if there is anything in this, but its URL is #17, there will have been a few test pages etc, but I would be interested to see if anything was relegated from being the first launch in favor of this?

[luigi]

There's another equity one now https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/36
I don't think you can read much into the number in the URL.

[Harvey Specter]

There's another equity one now https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/36
I don't think you can read much into the number in the URL.Just had a quick look at this. It looks like a normal SME and I wonder why it needs crowdfunding, other than the fact the owners have no cash of their own. The wages in the forecast total just over $100k per annum so the three founders will effectively be living on the breadline should that be realistic.

I cant see this one making its target. Pledgeme taking an interesting approach compared to Snowballs very considered approach at the start.

[silverblizzard888]

There's another equity one now https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/36
I don't think you can read much into the number in the URL.

The revenues numbers assume there will be a maximum number of passengers everyday (including a mix of adults and children). I think they haven't been realistic in that tourism has good seasons and bad seasons and that the average numbers will likely be half that. Doesn't seem they have factored in much maintenance or breakdown and the affects it could have on the number of rides offered. Looks like a decent investment, but wouldn't go expecting the 50% return the numbers seem so promising over. Realistic wise I think maybe 10-15%, which is still decent.

[bmrm]

This is a much more interesting offer, the kind of venture tourists would go bananas for (I am less convinced the cycle trail types would). I will sit down and have a closer look at the numbers, but one heuristic right off the bat, their inflation assumptions seem arbitrarily low at 2.5%. Not that that alone necessarily has much of an impact on their business, but to me implies they may be being unrealistic elsewhere.

[Harvey Specter]

This is a much more interesting offer, the kind of venture tourists would go bananas for (I am less convinced the cycle trail types would). I will sit down and have a closer look at the numbers, but one heuristic right off the bat, their inflation assumptions seem arbitrarily low at 2.5%. Not that that alone necessarily has much of an impact on their business, but to me implies they may be being unrealistic elsewhere.Inflation at 2.5% seems reasonable given it has to be kept within 1-3% range.

The issue is no liquidity and no moon shot. If this does well, all you will get is dividends ongoing. Compare to Renaissance where if it did well, it will be listed (it is much larger in scale) or the moon shot the a big beer company buys them out at a ridiculous multiple.

When I look at this sort of investment the end game is one of the following:
- deadpool (lose all money)
- no liquidity (stuck receiving dividends for the rest of your life)
- Liquidity (listed, hopefully at a lot more than what I paid but even if not, I can get my capital out)
- Moon shot (acquired at a multiple (hopefully) much higher than what I paid)

Allocate a % chance to each. If you allocate nothing to the bottom two, why are you doing it?

Unless you are just thinking of it as a donation (with potential upside), how else would you think of it?

[Harvey Specter]

The Patriarch has now hit its minimum and is now in overfunding. Still a bit of time if you want to get in as they are still after an extra $200k but I think it was an investment of %50k that put them over the line so a few more of those and it will close quickly.


Actually - snowballeffect are now up and running - and I do like their approach and their second project: https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/the-patriarch
Clear and Concise communication - and (for laymans eyes) sensible and fair legal framework.

The project above - an experienced film team (the people who made as well "Once were warriors") needing the final 5% of their budget for an in my view quite promising new movie in the same genre.

According to their calculations (and based on the experience with the previous movie) the return should be somewhere between return of capital plus 10% (pessimistic scenario) over capital plus 100% (similar to their previous movie) and roughly 4 times capital (optimistic scenario). Obviously - things can turn pear shaped in this industry anytime, i.e. no guarantees and loosing the capital is a real risk (though IMHO lower than with some penny shares, like e.g. CRP).

Anyway - I thought it must be fun to (co-)fund a New Zealand movie and chipped in a small amount (remember - only invest money, you can afford to loose). Looking forward to the production news and using my pre-viewing rights ...

Discl: DYOR - and again, while it appears to be a professional and honest project - things can (and sometimes will) go wrong. Do not invest, if you need the money you are investing (hint - I invested roughly the amount I would otherwise spend for 4 ... 5 nice evenings spent going out with my wife ... that's a sum I can afford to loose (after due consultation with my wife, obviously).

[Harvey Specter]

I just saw on Twitter that PledgeMe will be releasing their first two Equity campaigns next week.


First one is out - a geek museum: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/17


There's another equity one now https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/36Both of these seem DOA. They were available all weekend and they got pretty much nothing. The first is at $3k with (my guess) a few geeks throwing in some coffee money and the other only has one investor at $1k. If a crowdfund campaign doesn't get to 30% in the first week, it is pretty much over (that is based on reward campaign stats but I assume equity is the same).

[Snow Leopard]

Got an email today saying that 'foreigners' such as myself can now invest through Snowball.

I also, separately, received an invitation to join the Snowball Effect discussion group on Linkedin.

Good to see them chasing Tigers.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[GTM 3442]

[QUOTE=Paper Tiger;509641]Got an email today saying that 'foreigners' such as myself can now invest through Snowball./QUOTE]

It was an interesting conundrum.

Renaissance shares were available to "foreigners", but said "foreigners" were barred from the listing platform (Snowball Effect), and thus unable to access the shares.

Not quite Catch-22, but well in range and closing fast

[heisenberg]

New offer - Carbonscape.

https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/carbonscape

Interesting business but not much in the way of benefits to investing. Thoughts?

[Schrodinger]

Ummm... you are looking for advice on investments on a crowd funded platform that don't have the ability to attract it in the private sector. Does that answer your question?

Speaking of that, can we get Martin Jet Pack to crowd fund?

Since you peaked my interest in Snowball? What compelling skills about the team running Snowball appeal to you? Fonterra finance boys don't appeal to my advisor preferences in the hi tech sector. What are your motivations?

[Snow Leopard]

New offer - Carbonscape.

https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/carbonscape

Interesting business but not much in the way of benefits to investing. Thoughts?


Ummm... you are looking for advice on investments on a crowd funded platform that don't have the ability to attract it in the private sector. Does that answer your question?

Speaking of that, can we get Martin Jet Pack to crowd fund?

Schrodinger vs Heisenberg - such an uncertain outcome - :D

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Schrodinger]

Not trying to be confrontational, but looking for solid investment opportunities on Snowball astounds me. Do people love throwing money away?

Warning StatementIt's crucial for you to understand the characteristics and risks of this investment opportunity. New Zealand law normally requires people who offer financial products to provide in-depth information to investors before they invest. The usual rules do not apply to offers by companies through Snowball Effect. As a result, you may not be given all the information you need to make an informed decision. Investing is risky. Some of the key risks include illiquidity, lack of returns, dilution, loss of key people and customers, and lack of control. You should only invest money that you can afford to lose. Please read further general information here (https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/warning-statement).

also interesting to note they have some bankers/capital boys advising them. Surely they have deep enough pockest to fund this without resorting to the crowd or is it a little too "risky"

[MAC]

It is hard to conceive that green coke processing COGS could ever really be less than that of miners simply digging coking coal out of the ground, but there may well be a market of steel sector corporates who wish to balance their image with green initiatives and may pay a premium on that basis. Similar to a bio-diesel or bio-avgas market.

Competitively downstream it may just come down to transport costs, green coke could be produced from waste wood in China cheaper, much closer to the steel industry than here too.

It doesn't seem to be rocket science either. They may well do ok, but I think they would have to hold a good solid international patent suite before I would jump right in. As an investment in royalties I might be more interested.

[Harvey Specter]

New offer - Carbonscape.

https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/carbonscape

Interesting business but not much in the way of benefits to investing. Thoughts?They have already raised more tha the two Pledgeme ones combined. Have to hand it to Snaowball for how they execute.

Haven't had a good look at Carbonscape yet. No need for gimmicky rewards if you believe the forecasts as you will be rolling in cash in years to come. Seriously, it isn't a consumer play so not really any benefits it could provide (unless you have a coal fireplace???).

Will post again once I have reviewed. It would be interesting to know what they raised capital at recently - they seem to be quiet on that point (unless it is in a bit I didn't read).

[Schrodinger]

Supply Agreement with NZ Steel & Reaching the Global Steel Industry: Nothing of value commented in here mostly smoke and mirror comments about possibles etc. I would expect hard and fast numbers on the NZ Steel contract etc.

Would also prefer information on competitors, prospect pipelines and employee contracts. They have $107k cash on hand I assume they pay their staff $10 p/hr so they don't run out?? I would expect several are working for nothing or have other jobs.

[MAC]

It’s like the dragons den on this thread, so it should be for anything snowball.

There’s always those whom will invest in green philanthropy and long term science based faith, who are we really though to say they are wrong.

Not one for your average investor though, nor me either.

[DogofWar]

I think you'll find that Carbonscape are looking to raise a reasonable chunk of $$ through the private sector - they're doing a equity crowdfunding raise in conjunction with this as well as looking at a NZAX compliance listing. This is pointed out in the doc

I suspect you'll see more of this collaboration between the crowd and the private HNW's/VC's as it just makes sense. Raising funds through the private sector is challenging - the depth just isn't there in NZ, and it's costly and time consuming. Why wouldn't you tap into another 3m or so potential investors, bring it all online, and raise some funds and increase awareness?

Probably also worth pointing out that Snowball Effect aren't financial advisors - it's up to you to do you homework

[Schrodinger]

I think you'll find that Carbonscape are looking to raise a reasonable chunk of $$ through the private sector - they're doing a equity crowdfunding raise in conjunction with this as well as looking at a NZAX compliance listing. This is pointed out in the doc

I suspect you'll see more of this collaboration between the crowd and the private HNW's/VC's as it just makes sense. Raising funds through the private sector is challenging - the depth just isn't there in NZ, and it's costly and time consuming. Why wouldn't you tap into another 3m or so potential investors, bring it all online, and raise some funds and increase awareness?

Probably also worth pointing out that Snowball Effect aren't financial advisors - it's up to you to do you homework

Good point about the collaboration opportunity which raises interesting possibilities for the future. I personally think there is more than enough funds in NZ but money usually stays away if the story is not liked. Market perception is that some companies are misunderstood which is why more information is better to make a decision.

The point about the private sector money is that good companies always get the capital they need.

[DogofWar]

Good point about the collaboration opportunity which raises interesting possibilities for the future. I personally think there is more than enough funds in NZ but money usually stays away if the story is not liked. Market perception is that some companies are misunderstood which is why more information is better to make a decision.

The point about the private sector money is that good companies always get the capital they need.


In my experience good companies eventually get their money, but it can be one hell of a job. It doesn't matter which way you cut it, the NZ private market is tiny ensuring limited diversity of investment appetite, and the existing system for attracting capital into this sector is clunky. I hope that equity crowdfunding gives it a good shakeup. Key is ensuring that investors understand the risks they're taking on. I suspect in a few years time a number of people will be surprised at what equity cf has brought to market.

[BlackPeter]

Had a look at the CarbonScape offer. Yes, they mention lots of potential, however show little hard facts in the offer document. What really started worrying me was that they assume for their business case an average metallurgical coke price of NZ$450 per ton. From memory ... yes, there have been times when the coke price was that high, but currently it trades on the Chinese market for roughly NZ$190 (RMB 917). Shipping is from memory roughly NZD 70 to 80 per ton (which counts against NZ coal mines exporting to China, but might count as plus for CarbonScape, and yes - they might be able to charge some additional "environment friendly" margin.

Still - even if we add the saved shipping as a plus, than they would at current world market prices make only 50% of what they budgeted for unless the "green" coke margin would add another 100%, what I would doubt.

As well - they don't even mention in their offer document the risk that the coke price might go (or just stay) down.

Might pass this investment opportunity, but interested to hear others thoughts.

[BFG]

Why are they using such high prices that have absolutely no basis in the current environment? Surely they can't be that daft/blatantly fraudulent! Is there an extra high price to be paid for their commodity or something?

[BlackPeter]

Why are they using such high prices that have absolutely no basis in the current environment? Surely they can't be that daft/blatantly fraudulent! Is there an extra high price to be paid for their commodity or something?

Good question. I guess there is not really a market for "green" coke (i.e. they are free to assume any price they want) and it may or may not be that NZ Steel offered them in the contract something like $450 for the first 9000 tons (they don't disclose the agreed sell price). Still - given the current environment it appears unlikely that they will get this money in the long run for their product unless the coking coal price shoots up again (what it may or may not do ...). Environmental considerations alone have these days little economic value, considering what carbon credits are worth these days.

[PJK]

What really started worrying me was that they assume for their business case an average metallurgical coke price of NZ$450 per ton.

From memory ... yes, there have been times when the coke price was that high, but currently it trades on the Chinese market for roughly NZ$190 (RMB 917). Shipping is from memory roughly NZD 70 to 80 per ton

Good spot ...

Wiki historical price information ... (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Coal_as_a_traded_commodity )
The price of coal increased from around $30 per short ton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_ton) in 2000 to around $150 per short ton as of September 2008. As of October 2008, the price per short ton had declined to $111. Prices further declined to $71 as of October 2010. (all USD)

US govt PDF of recent prices ... ( source http://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t12p01p1.pdf )
Suggests average prices of USD $119 in 2013 for US exports and USD $101 in 2014

And reserves ... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Major_coal_producers )
Shows US, India and Australia with over 100 years production at current rates ... although China at just 35 years (and 49% of total) does indicate some likely upwards pressure.

.. but unless I'm disconnecting these numbers the average price expectation of NZD$450 seems a big jump and I would have expected to read far more about why a three-fold increase is a rational assumption in this business case. It can't just be wishful thinking - so why?

[Harvey Specter]

Carbon scape has hit 40% of their minimum target.

They have obviously had a lot of questions re the price of Coke so have said they will do an update to discuss that point. I did a bit of research and it looks like they were using the price of hot blast coke, not metalergic coke. Does anyone know the difference between the two.

Disc: haven't invested (yet?)

[Okebw]

Carbon scape has hit 40% of their minimum target.

They have obviously had a lot of questions re the price of Coke so have said they will do an update to discuss that point. I did a bit of research and it looks like they were using the price of hot blast coke, not metalergic coke. Does anyone know the difference between the two.

Disc: haven't invested (yet?)

There was an article about in on three news tonight so I wouldn't be surprised if the funding uptake kicked up a notch early this week. Personally the article didn't do anything for me, I'd say lost cause

[Harvey Specter]

There was an article about in on three news tonight so I wouldn't be surprised if the funding uptake kicked up a notch early this week. Personally the article didn't do anything for me, I'd say lost causeIts the sort of invention that if it works like they say, would be great. But even if it works, can they get they make it for a price they will be able to earn a good profit (rakon, wellington drive, sealegs)

[BlackPeter]

There was an article about in on three news tonight so I wouldn't be surprised if the funding uptake kicked up a notch early this week. Personally the article didn't do anything for me, I'd say lost cause

Agreed - I have seen the report as well, and it was basically a great example for low quality TV reporting. They just broadcasted Carbon Scapes marketing message without asking any critical questions. Just a show case for the poor quality of many of our news reports and free advertisement for the Carbon Scape fund rising.

[BlackPeter]

Actually - there is now an update from the Carbon Scape offer discussing as well the impact of the coke price. Somebody must have asked them :sleep:

https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/carbonscape

... and press "Update"

Need to re-read the update probably a couple of times, but as I understand it now - they do acknowledge that the coke price is currently depressed and claim that if it stays that way they would get only $350 per ton (instead of the $ 450 they put into the business case). They do claim however that their coke would fetch significantly more than the metallurgical coke in / from China (at NZD 190 per ton). Part of that might be in the properties of their coke (and I don't understand enough about this subject), part of it is probably due to the transport cost from China NZ Steel would otherwise have if using Chinese coke, though I am not sure, why BRL wouldn't be happy to compete? They have their coke anyway buried in NZ soil and claim to have their break even point around NZD 120 per ton (going down to NZD 80 when in full production).

Anyway - I am no coke specialist ... if anybody out there knows more about the stuff, than I would be interested in a comment.

[Harvey Specter]

Anyway - I am no coke specialist ... if anybody out there knows more about the stuff, than I would be interested in a comment.The GCSB probably thinks I am a druggy now since I have been googling for the local price of coke.

Someone obviously liked the explanation. Looks like a $40k investment to put them at 59% of minimum.

Given the large overfunding target, I assume a few will leave it to the last minute to decide/invest as there is little risk of missing out. The crowd fund site I have wated in the UK doesn't let you know if there is an overfund so you have to get in quick in case it gets filled quickly and there is no overfund (Crowdfund closed there last million dollar round in less than an hour!).

[Schrodinger]

The GCSB probably thinks I am a druggy now since I have been googling for the local price of coke.

Someone obviously liked the explanation. Looks like a $40k investment to put them at 59% of minimum.

Given the large overfunding target, I assume a few will leave it to the last minute to decide/invest as there is little risk of missing out. The crowd fund site I have wated in the UK doesn't let you know if there is an overfund so you have to get in quick in case it gets filled quickly and there is no overfund (Crowdfund closed there last million dollar round in less than an hour!).

Are these peer lending platforms a way to extend the FFF groupies?

[bmrm]

Seeing as this seems to be the place for everything equity crowd funding, PledgeMe is running a round in themselves: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/49-pledgeme-limited

Haven't had a chance to go through the docs yet, but at-least its not another hovercraft/museum.

[Harvey Specter]

Seeing as this seems to be the place for everything equity crowd funding, PledgeMe is running a round in themselves: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/49-pledgeme-limited

Haven't had a chance to go through the docs yet, but at-least its not another hovercraft/museum.Must be desperate as its not a good time to raise funds given how poorly their first two equity campaigns are going. Having said that, they are pretty good at their rewards based campaigns.

Haven't looked at the doc's yet.

[Harvey Specter]

Meanwhile, CarbonScape on Snowball effect has successfully hit its minimum and is now overfunding: https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/carbonscape

They posted a response to the coal price question raised here which looked pretty good (I haven't validated it).

If Snowball was trying to raise funds on the same metrics as Pledgeme, my guess is it would be closed by now.

[luigi]

Haven't looked at the doc's yet.
They've already closed $100k now and did it with a $600k pre-money valuation (10x trailing revenue multiple).

In describing their point of difference with competitors: "[Snowball Effect] are more focussed on building an investor pool, and are very selective about which companies they work with”.

[Harvey Specter]

They've already closed $100k now and did it with a $600k pre-money valuation (10x trailing revenue multiple).

In describing their point of difference with competitors: "[Snowball Effect] are more focussed on building an investor pool, and are very selective about which companies they work with”.i think it was a 10x forward multiple not trailing.

I read that to - a good compliment for snowball I thought. Especially since pledgemes first two equity campaigns crashed and burned. Maybe they should have been a bit more selective.

And on another note, a third has been approved - a JV between crowdcube (a big player in the UK and Europe) and Armillary (the firm that operates the unlisted exchange).

[bmrm]

Another brewer, this time Yeastie Boys through Pledgeme: http://www.nbr.co.nz/yeastie-boys-pledgeme-ck-p-166498

[bmrm]

Yeastie Boy's offer document for anyone interested: http://yeastieboys.us9.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=6ab7f843f4ea180390af51dbb&id=d279514b6e&e=96e13de015

The graph on page 39 made me shake my head, but otherwise looks well put together (however the forecasts look pretty rosy to say the least).

[Harvey Specter]

Yeastie Boy's offer document for anyone interested: http://yeastieboys.us9.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=6ab7f843f4ea180390af51dbb&id=d279514b6e&e=96e13de015

The graph on page 39 made me shake my head, but otherwise looks well put together (however the forecasts look pretty rosy to say the least).The offer opens today at 6pm I think. My guess it is will move fairly quickly as it gets support from wellingtonian hipsters.

I though the valuation for Renaissance was a bit high and this is even higher! They dont do their own brewing so they dont capture the brewing margin either (note how their GP% is lower than Renaissance) and with Renaissance, you also got a 5% yeild in beer if you bought $2k worth. All you get with yestie boys is 10% discount which any company with a mailing list will give you.

Having said that, by brewing in the UK, they maybe able to grow fast by selling to the larger market, while keeping costs (freight etc) low. It may also open them up to be taken over by one of the large European brewers wanting a craft beer label.

I was thinking of throwing in a lazy $500 to support a kiwi company but the valuation doesn't stake up unless you count on a Euro takeover. mmmm

[Schrodinger]

The offer opens today at 6pm I think. My guess it is will move fairly quickly as it gets support from wellingtonian hipsters.

I though the valuation for Renaissance was a bit high and this is even higher! They dont do their own brewing so they dont capture the brewing margin either (note how their GP% is lower than Renaissance) and with Renaissance, you also got a 5% yeild in beer if you bought $2k worth. All you get with yestie boys is 10% discount which any company with a mailing list will give you.

Having said that, by brewing in the UK, they maybe able to grow fast by selling to the larger market, while keeping costs (freight etc) low. It may also open them up to be taken over by one of the large European brewers wanting a craft beer label.

I was thinking of throwing in a lazy $500 to support a kiwi company but the valuation doesn't stake up unless you count on a Euro takeover. mmmm

They will need to have a proven market in EU before being considered for takeover. This strategy will take years.

[bmrm]

Got themselves oversubscribed in an hour, Wellington hipsters have deep pockets!

https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/78-yeastie-boys

[Harvey Specter]

Another Platform has launched today with their first offer: https://equitise.co.nz/project/trnz-digital-travel-guides

Obviously hasn't got hipster backing (or maybe because it isn't alcohol) as it only has 3 investors on a very quiet launch, 2 of which are directors (and 1 an existing shareholder already).
Edit: Article: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/another-equity-crowdfunding-site-launches-first-offer-cs-168012

[Harvey Specter]

Another Platform has launched today with their first offer: https://equitise.co.nz/project/trnz-digital-travel-guidesWell it hasn't been able to attract any investors outside those they had lined up at the start. It is also getting slammed on NBR:

Free to all: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/another-equity-crowdfunding-site-launches-first-offer-cs-168012
Behind the paywall: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/company-siphons-ip-and-founder-gets-licence-fees-cs-p-168049 Mainly points out they dont own the technology, a point already picked up in the article above.

[Harvey Specter]

Snowballs latest offer is up for pre-release - a drone manufacturer - Aeronavics . Aiming for $750 - $1.5m.

I'll update this with an NBR link once they do a story so we can all follow the smack down it gets in the comments. Hopefully they did better vendor DD than equitise did.

Edit:
NBR link: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/drone-company-offer-snowball-effect-cs-168611
Offer link: https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/aeronavics
Company link: http://aeronavics.com/

[Schrodinger]

Snowballs latest offer is up for pre-release - a drone manufacturer. Aiming for $750 - $1.5m.

I'll update this with an NBR link once they do a story so we can all follow the smack down it gets in the comments. Hopefully they did better vendor DD than equitise did.

Need more info on market, comp etc. With all of these companies I think you need to look very closely at the hockey sticks and set your expectations accordingly. Most should be revised down.

[Harvey Specter]

Need more info on market, comp etc. With all of these companies I think you need to look very closely at the hockey sticks and set your expectations accordingly. Most should be revised down.Agree - though I will say the market is much larger that Martin Jetpacks and these guys already have sales!

[NZSilver]

Anyone looked at the latest - NZ drone manufacturer, high end - 10k-30k drones.

Looks interesting and a good product, however competition huge, however they seem to be chasing the commercial/industrial high end market - if there is such a thing.


"prospectus" https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/depository/aeronavics-im.pdf
website http://aeronavics.com/

[Harvey Specter]

Anyone looked at the latest - NZ drone manufacturer, high end - 10k-30k drones.
have a look at post 74


Looks interesting and a good product, however competition huge, however they seem to be chasing the commercial/industrial high end market - if there is such a thing.
There is definately a high end (but below military) market. The question for me is whether they are able to scale up as fast as they like - Currently they are effectively using word of mouth based on their high quality/reputation/service.

My favorite quote in the IM: "Aeronavics is based in Raglan to attract key staff and over time we’ll look to expand our team around the world." I wonder if they misplaced the 'and' in that sentence.

[Harvey Specter]

A bit of a round up for prosperities sake.

Aeronavics closed fully oversubscribed. From what I can tell there were a few $50k+ investments and possibly one in the the $100k+.

The next one appears to be this which apparently is launching today: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/crowdfunding-launch-cystic-fibrosis-drug-developer-cs-169708
Invivo wines (for any Grahma Norton and/or wine fans) is expected later this month: (paywall) http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/invivo-wines-gears-crowdfunding-push-cs-p-169540
Plus Mad Group (Habitual fix nd Mad Mex) is due soon too : https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/offers

Will be interesting to see what rewards the last two offer.

Meanwhile Equitise is still struggling with the audio guide company, probably due to the bad press it got on NBR about its dodgy patent protection claim even though it doesn't own the IP: https://equitise.co.nz/project/trnz-digital-travel-guides

[Harvey Specter]

Invivo wines (for any Grahma Norton and/or wine fans) is expected later this month: (paywall) http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/invivo-wines-gears-crowdfunding-push-cs-p-169540Invivo is now live. Already reached its minimum after its pre-release yesterday. YOu get free wine with your investment

Pledgeme also has 3 offers up. A trademe competitor of all things, a kids shampoo company and a online scheduler for school interviews. The last is the only interesting one but you are definitely getting in pre traction so definitely dumb money stage.

[luigi]

Invivo is now live. Already reached its minimum after its pre-release yesterday. YOu get free wine with your investment

Invivo still appears 'coming soon' to me.

Equitise's TRNZ looks dead in the water, stuck at 75k/200k.

[Harvey Specter]

Invivo still appears 'coming soon' to me.My bad - lunch time today (in 20m) per the tweet earlier this morning. They have already raised $773k of their $2m maximum.

[bmrm]

Pledgeme has 'Chariot' launching today: https://attending.io/events/getchariotequity
No idea of the terms, but would be surprised (and disappointed) if it gets far, looks like a half-baked Uber clone with as yet no product: http://www.getchariot.com/

Pledgeme could do well to take a leaf out of Snowball Effect's book and provide at-least some 'coming soon' details, otherwise you're left piecing together blog/facebook posts.

[Harvey Specter]

Pledgeme has 'Chariot' launching today: https://attending.io/events/getchariotequity
No idea of the terms, but would be surprised (and disappointed) if it gets far, looks like a half-baked Uber clone with as yet no product: http://www.getchariot.com/You have to be on a very low valuation given they dont even have a product yet. Parent interviews which does have a working product and some customers (though most through a reseller) has a pre-money valuaton of $1m https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/81-parent-interviews which seems reasonable. Though they are competing against a company with big market share.

Snowball will be offering MadMex soon: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11422418
- I assume they will only offer this once Invivo closes.

[Harvey Specter]

Interesting early metrics: http://samstewartnz.com/equity-crowdfunding-snapshot-5-metrics-from-the-first-5m-raised/

[bmrm]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1503/S00885/chariot-carpooling-and-ride-sharing-app-equity-crowdfunding.htm

'Chariot’s fundraising goal on PledgeMe is $200,000 which makes up 20 percent of the company.

"Chariots pre-money valuation is $800k and we're comfortable that the valuation reflects a fair value of the company and market position, and, more importantly, the growth potential that Chariot can offer our investors."'

So basically a company whose main asset seems to be 1,000 email addresses values itself close to double Pledgeme, a platform with thousands of converted users which is actually raising the money for them? Elsewhere it emphasises how they're going to use the capital for advertising, great way to burn through your cash and achieve nothing. Staying well clear of this one.

[777]

Invivo has only $54,000 to go. Should close today

[Harvey Specter]

Wow - surprisingly SellShed got across the line : https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/93-sellshed-by-websoft-limited

$5m valuation for a trademe competitor which is hardly off the ground. They must have got a few big lumps of money as it went up very quickly yesterday and average amount is over $8k!

Anyone here brave enough to put a gamble on this?

Edit: now over $600k with an average investment of $11k so some more big amounts coming in. I think Trademe would be better investment on a risk/reward basis!
Final Edit: they made $712k from 70 investors = $10k average. Very surprised.

[Harvey Specter]

Pineapple Heads ( a kids shampoo company) raised just over $204k from 96 investors = $2.1k average

They were at least already in market though their forecasts look optimistic (small growth at supermarkets but huge online - I would have though most would buy this sort of stuff at a supermarket).

https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/107-pineapple-heads-limited

[Harvey Specter]

Equitise's TRNZ looks dead in the water, stuck at 75k/200k.TRNZ has got over the line. sitting at $211k with one day to go: https://equitise.co.nz/project/trnz-digital-travel-guides
I was surprised at this as $200k is a decent chunk of money and they didn't own the IP, have a strong competitor, and their tech actually seemed quite basic.

Parent Interviews got across the line (just) - $52.1k which was just over the $50k minimum. Happy for this one.

Chariot is very close but with a target of $30k, they could easily push it over but putting it on the credit card.
Be Intent is also close, sitting at $124k with a target of $150k [Update: they didn't make it but apparently have a few investors who didn't make it in time (why not) so are asking people if they still want to invest the funds even though they were unsuccessful.]

[Harvey Specter]

Snowball will be offering MadMex soon: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11422418
Goes live midday Monday. Seeking $750k - $1.5m on a pre money valuation of $9.5m

[traineeinvestor]

Goes live midday Monday. Seeking $750k - $1.5m on a pre money valuation of $9.5m

Hmmm .... looking at the financials, investors are being asked to pay quite a high price for the projected growth. Also, that growth will certainly require additional rounds of capital raising in the future. The business looks good and the management are telling a good story, but I have to wonder if there is enough left on the table to compensate investors for the risks? Put differently, why should I buy this instead of RBD?

:confused:

I think I need to go and have another look at the numbers.

[Crackity]

Branding of mad mex and habitual fix stores seems good to me.

Financials not so flash - current assets of 176k vs current liabilities of 1054k end of last financial year. Net equity 19k for a loss of 347k.

And they want 750k for 7.11% of the company.

I will be walking on.....

[Crackity]

Though as at 10pm they have raised 92k

[Harvey Specter]

Put differently, why should I buy this instead of RBD?.

How does it compare to BurgerFuel? It has a closer growth profile than RBD which is at saturation with its two main brands.

[Crackity]

Mad Group has 160k of funding so far - 42 investors - not as immediately popular as Yeastie Boys or the drone funding. Open for another month unless filled earlier....

DYOR.....

[Harvey Specter]

An interesting one has popped up on equitise: https://equitise.co.nz/project/the-retirement-income-group

Big market. First mover advantage. Experienced founders. Experienced board. Founders putting in more cash. Rich investors putting in cash.

[Crackity]

Hi Vince - I think maybe crowd funding could get its own sub forum?

[Harvey Specter]

An interesting one has popped up on equitise: https://equitise.co.nz/project/the-retirement-income-group

Big market. First mover advantage. Experienced founders. Experienced board. Founders putting in more cash. Rich investors putting in cash.No one even interested enough in this to tear it down?

Even the NBR comments were rather subdued, focusing on the tax issues of the IM saying a IPO or trade sale was a possibility.

NBR paywalled article : http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/retirement-income-group-crowdfunds-launch-new-annuities-market-cs-p-172920

[Traderx]

No one even interested enough in this to tear it down?

Even the NBR comments were rather subdued, focusing on the tax issues of the IM saying a IPO or trade sale was a possibility.

NBR paywalled article : http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/retirement-income-group-crowdfunds-launch-new-annuities-market-cs-p-172920

I agree with your analysis above, the board looks good. Product seems like it could be sold, although fairly complex. Clear idea of size of market, the why and the how.

I'm likely make a small investment.

[Traderx]

A further note - I see Shamubeel Eaqub has invested in RIG on equitise, if that signifies anything!

[Traderx]

RIG offer closed at 180% odd subscribed so not too bad an effort in a few days. Look forward to hearing progress on this one and how all the crowd funning efforts go. I think it's quite exciting times in Nz capital markets!

[Harvey Specter]

RIG offer closed at 180% odd subscribed so not too bad an effort in a few days. Look forward to hearing progress on this one and how all the crowd funning efforts go. I think it's quite exciting times in Nz capital markets!And apparently they have more wholesale investors interested which should take them upto there max: NBR paywall: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/annuities-provider-oversubscribed-crowdfunding-offer-cs-p-173194

In other news,

Punakaiki is getting ready to crowdfund on Snowball Effect - it has its own thread already so best comments kept there: http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9187-Punakaiki-Fund-potential-IPO/page2&highlight=punakaiki (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/annuities-provider-oversubscribed-crowdfunding-offer-cs-p-173194)

Red Witch (electric guitar pedals?) is launching today and already has raised 64% of its minimum over the weekend to pre registered investors with a max target of $700k: EDIT: https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/red-witch

Tapp - a columbian and NZ taxi app company (not making this up) on pledgeme: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/102-tapp-limited

I did see one other that will be starting on Pledgeme soon but cant remember what it is - beauty products from memory. EDIT: http://www.sorbetcosmetics.com/going-global/

EDIT: Dairy free cheese (not making this one up either): https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/115-angel-food

EDIT: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/fresh-offers-equity-crowdfunding-sites-cs-p-173294

[Harvey Specter]

Tapp - a columbian and NZ taxi app company (not making this up) on pledgeme: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/102-tapp-limitedHaving said that, an Australian Taxi app just raised money on a $100m valuation: http://www.afr.com/technology/ingogo-nears-crowdsourced-equity-fundraising-record-in-12-million-round-20150527-ghanhs
They do have 5000 drivers already and install the payment machines.

[bmrm]

Having said that, an Australian Taxi app just raised money on a $100m valuation: http://www.afr.com/technology/ingogo-nears-crowdsourced-equity-fundraising-record-in-12-million-round-20150527-ghanhs
They do have 5000 drivers already and install the payment machines.

Just prima face I think there would be more regulatory risk for Uber in Australia than here, which would lead to higher valuations for native Australian apps with existing taxi organizations on board. That's based on nothing more than my 'Australia is harder to do business in, especially for foreigners' heuristic.

[Crackity]

Mad Group may be snowball effects first "flop" - one month in / 9 days to go - only 239k raised ( out of a min of 750k / max of 1.5 mill) - wouldn't be surprised if the offer was rejigged to offer crowdfunders a bit more of the equity.....

[Harvey Specter]

Mad Group may be snowball effects first "flop" - one month in / 9 days to go - only 239k raised ( out of a min of 750k / max of 1.5 mill) - wouldn't be surprised if the offer was rejigged to offer crowdfunders a bit more of the equity.....surprising - especially since they got an unnamed deal in the US since launching.

I think there bonuses were wrong. You got a voucher once a year. They should have done discounts. That way their customers would invest knowing they would be getting weekly distributions. All the alcohol ones have given 10-20% discounts year round as well as the box of booze.

Remember that most money comes in at the end, especially with SnowballEffect since they take you money and hold in trust till it closes (pledgeme only takes the money once it does close- and let's you pay by credit card).

[Harvey Specter]

One thing that would be good (but they will never offer) is a liquidation preference. That way you know you have a chance to get some money, even if it bombs if they can sell the brand, IP etc.

[Crackity]

Yes - both good points - it is an interesting new market - I am sure it will evolve as time goes on - maybe a secondary market for crowd funded shares ( but not founder shares until after some sort of escrow period ) would also be nice....

[Harvey Specter]

Yes - both good points - it is an interesting new market - I am sure it will evolve as time goes on - maybe a secondary market for crowd funded shares ( but not founder shares until after some sort of escrow period ) would also be nice....Snowballeffect is working on a secondary market - there is an article on the NBR yesterday (pay walled)

[Crackity]

I squeak when I walk Harvey - will have to wait till someone from the Herald notices....

[whirly]

Has anybody had a look at the Red Witch offering on Snowball. https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/red-witch?

I have zero skills at valuing a company but do know they make seriously good guitar pedals. The boutique market is well populated though but I would love to be able to get in behind this if it's going to fly. Might do anyway just for the fun of it. Anyone able to offer an opinion on their financials.

Whirly

[Crackity]

Hi Whirly

honestly the historical financials aren't flash - but if you believe they can use the money raised to expand the company and they have a great product then go for a small investment ( which may of course ultimately turn out to be a donation.....)

[Harvey Specter]

Hi Whirly

honestly the historical financials aren't flash - but if you believe they can use the money raised to expand the company and they have a great product then go for a small investment ( which may of course ultimately turn out to be a donation.....)Fair summary. I think the way to llok at it is it was more of a hobby before and now they are trying to take it seriously. Just look at their sales 5 years ago to see what the potential could be (when their product line was much smaller) but the risk is they fail to generate momentum, or fail to keep it up like what happened in the GFC.

The other issue is what is the exit strategy. Unlikely they will get big enough to list so will either need a trade sale or you will be relying on dividends till you can find someone willing to purchase off you (probably at a discount due to lack of liquidity). But the product is good so a trade sale is a real possibility and a large company would be willing to pay a lot for the celebrity endorsements it has knowing it can apply its larger distribution network..

[Crackity]

Snowball effect trying to give Mad a wee boost.....email just sent to my inbox... Still only 307k raised ( min 750 / max 1.5 mill )..... Maybe Headline needs amending to undersubscribed after the word close.....









Mad Group is about to closeThere is only two days left to become a shareholder in the Deloitte Fast 50 ranked company behind Habitual Fix and Mad Mex. Mad Group's offer is closing at 9am Friday (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/x-apple-data-detectors://0). Check out the offer at the link below!

[777]

So assuming Mad was short on funding, do they take what they got or refund the investors?

[Crackity]

Hi 777 - it closed with about 450k raised ( minimum was 750k) - I'm assuming this has been refunded - the offer and all mention of it seems to have disappeared from the website....

[777]

Well at least there are discerning investors around. Thank you.

[Crackity]

Indeed.

BTW - Punakaiki fund going well on snowball effect - into overfunding - also Lance Wiggs is a share trader member and prepared to answer questions on the Punakaiki thread....

[whirly]

Thanks Crackity and Harvey for your feedback (pun intended) on the Red Witch offer. I see they have achieved 101% of their target. They have shipped first order to Parsons in China. Parsons is the largest music distributor in China. They also signed a new distributor, the Euro-Unit Group, in Croatia which is not included in their forecast sales figures. They will be holding an investor session from 6pm this Wednesday at The ICEHOUSE in Auckland if anyone is able to go I'd love to but am too far away. https://attending.io/events/red-witch-analog-investor-seminar

I'm keen to take a small punt. It would be even better if there were shareholder discounts on products.

[Harvey Specter]

Hi 777 - it closed with about 450k raised ( minimum was 750k) - I'm assuming this has been refunded - the offer and all mention of it seems to have disappeared from the website....Mad hasn't disappeared - just moved down the page from current to completed offers. Surprised it didn't get over the line. Valuation was probably a bit high but is a Fast50 company and just signed an agreement with the US. I think they should have offered a 10% discount card - that way any regular customer would be stupid not to have 'invested' and would have guaranteed a customer for life.

[Harvey Specter]

Indeed.

BTW - Punakaiki fund going well on snowball effect - into overfunding - also Lance Wiggs is a share trader member and prepared to answer questions on the Punakaiki thread....Punakaiki doing well - just short of $1m at the moment. Personally I think he should have limited to $1m which would have allowed him to come back in 6m for another $1m at a higher valuation. As it stands, he is going to be awash with cash in July as the June options will bring in over $1.5m and the private offer will probably bring in more aswell.

Disc: First Round investor so not participating in this round. Will be taking up my options though.

[luigi]

Crowdcube (https://www.crowdcube.co.nz/investments) has launched their crowdfunding platform with the first offer being Collect (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/69485924/kiwi-collect-raises-cash-to-go-stateside).

[Crackity]

Holidays in Langkawi.....

Malaysia has recently introduced such a framework, and the Securities Commission of Malaysia invited Snowball Effect to attend and provide the keynote speech at its launch conference earlier this month.

[Dej]

Crowdcube (https://www.crowdcube.co.nz/investments) has launched their crowdfunding platform with the first offer being Collect (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/69485924/kiwi-collect-raises-cash-to-go-stateside).

Thoughts on collect?

Powerhouse of a team. Main goal is to be bought out by one of the larger companies that would utilise their tools.

Company used to be rewardjunkie before turning to collect. They earn't more money as rewardjunkie ($60k compared to $10k from Collect), but hopefully the transition will be a profitable one. Havent been Collect for long.

Cash burn of approximately $1M a year and cash on hand of only $150k, definitely need the money...

[Harvey Specter]

Thoughts on collect?

Cash burn of approximately $1M a year and cash on hand of only $150k, definitely need the money...they just asked for cash from the rich and didn't get much. If cash burn is that high they need to hit their max or they will be raising again in a few months. Haven't looked in detail yet.

[Dej]

they just asked for cash from the rich and didn't get much. If cash burn is that high they need to hit their max or they will be raising again in a few months. Haven't looked in detail yet.

Numbers like that generally just put me off.

At this stage in the game, if you don't have blue sky potential then I generally am skeptical.

You need to have large potential, so when reality kicks in you have a lot of wiggle room to still make a decent cut.

[Harvey Specter]

And another platform pops up - http://myangelinvestment.com/

This one pays a referral fee if you recommend someone. Anyone want to be referred? ;)

[Harvey Specter]

Punakaiki got fully funded so Snowball will be looking to do their next soon - an online Diamond company.

Pledgeme doing a second round of funding starting this week I think. They seem to be doing better now, though I dont like their changes with that waste management one.

Collect has hit its minimum (over $300k now) on Crowdcube.

[Entrep]

Which online Diamond company Harvey?

[777]

Which online Diamond company Harvey?

www.snowballeffect.co.nz

[Harvey Specter]

They've already closed $100k now and did it with a $600k pre-money valuation (10x trailing revenue multiple).

Pledgeme are going back for seconds. Now raising $250 - $750k on a $2.1 pre-money so a 3x return for those in the first round.

They now seem to have got the equity funding balance right. A good mix of potentials and long shots (compared to the first 2 which were long shots.

[Harvey Specter]

Pledgeme are going back for seconds. Now raising $250 - $750k on a $2.1 pre-money so a 3x return for those in the first round.

They now seem to have got the equity funding balance right. A good mix of potentials and long shots (compared to the first 2 which were long shots.Now live: https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/147-pledgeme-limited

[luigi]

Crowdcube have launched their second one: Roam (https://www.crowdcube.co.nz/investment/roam-19728), a P2P car sharing marketplace with keyless access technology.

$22k raised already out of $390k target.

[Harvey Specter]

Crowdcube have launched their second one: Roam (https://www.crowdcube.co.nz/investment/roam-19728), a P2P car sharing marketplace with keyless access technology.

$22k raised already out of $390k target.Dont forget the dog treat subscription company on Pledgeme - popular business model overseas.

And I read in an article about beer (research!) that Renaissance is going to do another raise to fund international growth. Will be interesting to see what the uplift in shareprice (if any) is (after Pledgeme increased 3x)

[Harvey Specter]

Which online Diamond company Harvey?https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/1791diamonds Prelauched on Friday and released to public today.


Pledgeme are going back for seconds. Now raising $250 - $750k on a $2.1 pre-money so a 3x return for those in the first round.

They now seem to have got the equity funding balance right. A good mix of potentials and long shots (compared to the first 2 which were long shots.They are just about to go into overfunding.

[Harvey Specter]

Things are getting busy:

MyAngelInvest - footfalls https://myangelinvestment.com/projects/footfalls-and-heartbeats/ (suspended/cancelled due to material event. they were only at 50% with 2 days to go so unlike to have been successful)
Equitise - chinese ASX IPO https://equitise.co.nz/project/dongfang-modern-asx-ipo ('successful' - $95k)
Pledgeme - dog toys https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/121-bow-wow-box-by-delivered-2-you-ltd (successful $77k ($75k target))
Crowdcube - car sharing https://www.crowdcube.co.nz/investment/roam-19728 (deleted from site - assume unsuccessful)
Snowball - diamonds https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/1791diamonds (Failed 37% funded with $274,801 NBR story (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/equity-crowdfunded-diamond-campaign-fails-sparkle-cs-p-177431) )
Liftoff - bush walks http://liftoff.nz/Project/Rainforest-Experiences-New-Zealand (Liftoff? more like Challenger: link (http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/bdddc846/new-crowdfunder-liftoff-fails-to-fly-on-first-outing-with-eco-tour-business.html?))

Maybe a bit of fatigue setting in too. Half will fail. The footfalls one looks interesting as it is running beside a private offer. The Chinese one looks kinda dodgy, but then it is listing on the SX and will be successful due to a 0 minimum (It required one investor and the staff member took that). Diamonds had to extend because is talking to large investors but will be DOA without it.

Plus:
Pledgeme - online shop https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/54-felt-limited (fail $94k from $250k target)
Snowball - myfoodbag competitor https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/woop (Closed - fully subscribed at $800k) Very good for a start up - NBR (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/food-delivery-service-woop-becomes-most-well-funded-start-under-equity-crowd-funding-b).

Still open:
Pledgeme - boxes of fruit https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/97-ooooby-limited (overfunding)
Pledgeme - Kumara spread https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/133-kumara-fusion-by-mr-and-mrs-martinez-limited
Snowball - VML/SNK competitor https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/motim
Equitise - SaaS for Rentals https://equitise.co.nz/project/pocketrent
Equitise - online insurance for Gen Y https://equitise.co.nz/project/mosaic-1

[Harvey Specter]

I thought I would give this thread a small bump even though no one seems interested in it.

Equitise seems to be doing really well in attracting a good selection of companies. The two they currently have on offer (PocketRent and Mosaic) seem to be strong with valuations not too high if you believe their forecasts.

The Snowball offer (Motim) also looks interesting (it is currently in private stage will the existing shareholders get the option to exercise their preemptive right).

[Crackity]

I'm interested Harvey - I think snowball doing a good job - only Rennaisance has appealed enough so far for me to invest but they are looking at assisting more mature companies with funding as well. I rate them as very interesting.....

[Harvey Specter]

only Rennaisance has appealed enough so far for me to investThe annual shareholder reward is being sent soon - got to love those dividends.

A much better punt than investing in an extinct bird IMHO.

[scottwalshnz]

I thought I would give this thread a small bump even though no one seems interested in it.

Equitise seems to be doing really well in attracting a good selection of companies.

I watch this thread with interest. As a small investor looking good for long term growth I'm finding the entry size for crowd funding good. Although some of the valuations have been on the high side.

Am interested in Equities' latest two. Need to have a good review of the documents.

Do think crowd funding needs it's own section on the message boards so it is not a couple of threads scattered over a few sections...

[Crackity]

Do think crowd funding needs it's own section on the message boards so it is not a couple of threads scattered over a few sections...

I agree - email Vince - I did make this suggestion to him about 4 months ago.....:)

[ShadowBlue]

Any opinions on the Motim offer? $48.31 a share seems rather steep...

[scottwalshnz]

Any opinions on the Motim offer? $48.31 a share seems rather steep...

The price per share doesn't really matter, the better question to ask, is the valuation fair.
Close to 5m for a company that loses money currently based on the idea that their platform is worth 25m rev in a few years.

[Harvey Specter]

Compare them to VML though and it looks pretty good. Already done work for high profile brands.

Disc: invested at the seed stage

[Harvey Specter]

Pledgeme - Kumara spread https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/investments/133-kumara-fusion-by-mr-and-mrs-martinez-limited
Snowball - VML/SNK competitor https://www.snowballeffect.co.nz/motim
Equitise - SaaS for Rentals https://equitise.co.nz/project/pocketrent
Equitise - online insurance for Gen Y https://equitise.co.nz/project/mosaic-1Is crowdfunding dieing?

These are the current offers and they are all struggling to get off the ground, let alone over the line (From the 4, I think only Motim will get there and even it is cutting it fine). All of them are solid offers and in the past would have been funded.

PocketRent is a great product (I have used it in the past) that is fully built and just needs to push on its monetisation plan. Motim already has customers - big name ones at that (Disc: investor from previous round). Mosaic is interesting and could do very well leading to a buyout and the kumara one, a bit iffy but they are only chasing $70k and they have a contract with one of the big supermarket chains.

[Crackity]

Is crowdfunding dieing?


No

you and I both know this is the future - there will be a shakeout of providers at some point - I still rate Snowball as the most professional outfit :)

[luigi]

Interest.co.nz is running a good tracking page of equity crowdfunding offers current and closed:

http://www.interest.co.nz/saving/crowdfunding

It seems investor interest has died down a bit in recent months with the offers that have made it over line only just clearing their minimum targets.

[Harvey Specter]

A couple of interesting wholesale offers on Snowball - SOS and Powerhouse Ventures.

Powerhouse have invested in Motim who crowd funded recently and Hydroworks who are raising on equities at the moment.

Will make an interesting comparison between them and Punakaiki. Different but bother early stage funds looking to list on the NZX in the next 1 to 2 years.

[777]

And Hydroworks are intending to list on the ASX. (Not Snowball)

[Harvey Specter]

And Hydroworks are intending to list on the ASX. (Not Snowball)auto correct error - was meant to be Equitise. My guess is ASX/NZX will depend on if they get any institutional backing and where they're based.

[Big Blind]

Any views on the Skins offer on Equitise? Obviously speculative, but a decent product nonetheless

[Harvey Specter]

Any views on the Skins offer on Equitise? Obviously speculative, but a decent product nonethelessGood discount on products though you get the same at Rebel a few times a year.

Also raising on Seedrs in the UK at the same time. Will be an interesting one to watch.

[Big Blind]

Just saw the Zeffer cider offer today. Anyone thinking of investing? I reckon craft beer is way too crowded now, but cider on the other hand....

[LAC]

I looked at it, forecasts look promising but I am 2 minded about it. Anyone jumped on board?

[Harvey Specter]

I looked at the Zeffer offer last week and it looked reasonable. It is always hard to value loss-making companies, especially when growth is reliant on new markets as opposed to existing markets. It was good to see they are willing to sell out, unlike some of the craft brewers - makes it much more investable as at least there is a small chance you will get your capital back out.

On a whole, this looks like a good offer for a crowd funding deal. Without know exactly how well Invivo is doing, it seems to be on par with that.

[airedale]

I did think about it but I would like to taste it first. There is too much sugary sweet cider on the market. The stuff that DB make is lolly water. But if this is cider for adults then it may be OK.....to drink.....but as an investment?

[Harvey Specter]

I did think about it but I would like to taste it first. There is too much sugary sweet cider on the market. The stuff that DB make is lolly water. But if this is cider for adults then it may be OK.....to drink.....but as an investment?Saw a tweet from Chris Keall (NBR) who said he likes their cider as they are crafty, not like the commerical sweet ciders that are on the market. Whether that impacts sales, who knows.

Maybe a good test of their distribution is whether you can find one to taste.

[Big Blind]

Saw a tweet from Chris Keall (NBR) who said he likes their cider as they are crafty, not like the commerical sweet ciders that are on the market. Whether that impacts sales, who knows.

Maybe a good test of their distribution is whether you can find one to taste.

There's a stockist map on their website http://zeffer.co.nz/

I probably should try the product first before I ponder any further

[Hectorplains]

I'm interested Harvey - I think snowball doing a good job - only Rennaisance has appealed enough so far for me to invest but they are looking at assisting more mature companies with funding as well. I rate them as very interesting.....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11931398

Another crowd equity punt gets kicked to touch.