Promisia Integrative Limited (PIL)

[heisenberg]

Previously known as the penny dreadful Savoy Equities

Anyone going for a punt?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9976231/Cash-sought-for-anti-inflammatory-product

[Snow Leopard]

and little liquidity.

The record date for the SPP was yesterday, so you needed to have bought on or before the 22nd.

The 'good news' announcement was not until the afternoon of the 22nd, so at least it is difficult to say that they tried to spruik it.

It could be the next PEB, if that can be considered as a good thing.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[nextbigthing]

"We compared it to some natural, and even some synthetic, anti-inflammatory products out there and we are pretty much beating them all," Daily said.

This statement doesn't exactly inspire much confidence...

[artemis]

PIL have done a lot of prep work over several years, and are finally looking like they might have a better mousetrap. The company has hired a new CEO who has knowledge of and connections in the US healthcare market. Who knows where this one will go, but arthritis, and inflammation generally, is a huge potential market so might be worth a punt.

Disc, have a few, not worth much though.

[artemis]

Half year results out now. A bigger loss due to increased setting up costs. Revenue from sales almost doubled from last half year, though still quite small. Arthrem is only sold in NZ so far but a lot of work happening to develop the US market.

Might not have recalled correctly, but I think their base product was originally trialed as a natural anti malarial and the arthritis aspect unexpectedly popped out of those trials.

As mentioned above, hold a few, mainly to support a local Wellington initiative.

[artemis]

Announced today:

Publication of Peer-Reviewed Research Paper on Arthrem(TM)

Mr Malcolm Johnson, Chairman of Promisia Integrative Limited announced today the publication of a peer-reviewed scientific research paper. The paper's
first author is the company's Principal Scientist Dr Sheena Hunt. The research paper was published by the Journal of Inflammation Research, a
recognised and authoritative international journal.

The published results show that the primary ingredient of Arthrem(TM), Promisia's proprietary plant extract, has potent anti-inflammatory activity
in vitro. Concentrations as low as 0.05% completely inhibited production of the inflammatory mediator tumour necrosis factor-alpha. The extract was also
a strong inhibitor of the cyclooxygenase (COX) inflammatory marker, prostaglandin E2.

[artemis]

Small but pretty interactive PIL annual meeting earlier this week. There was an announcement beforehand relating to a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, 12 week trial at the Rheumatology Research Unit, University of Otago, which was partially funded by Callaghan Innovation. This produced statistically significant results on the benefits of Arthrem and is to be published in a peer reviewed journal. A version of the product for canine arthritis is underway - fur babies is a potentially lucrative market. The company is positioning its products as rigorously tested / trialled - rather unusual in NZ's fairly unregulated nutritional supplements market.

Arthrem has been quietly launched in the US (arthrem.com) with the intention of selling on a subscription basis worldwide. A surprisingly small number of subscriptions is required to be profitable.

[airedale]

Artemis, what is a "fur baby"? And what do you get on a "subscription basis"? Arthrem capsules? Shares?
I assume from your name that you have a connection with Artemisia Annua.
I have a bottle of Arthrem in my medicine cabinet. After taking it for 3 months I am not sure that it helped me. But still willing to talk about it, maybe not so willing to pay for it.

[artemis]

Artemis, what is a "fur baby"? And what do you get on a "subscription basis"? Arthrem capsules? Shares?
I assume from your name that you have a connection with Artemisia Annua.
I have a bottle of Arthrem in my medicine cabinet. After taking it for 3 months I am not sure that it helped me. But still willing to talk about it, maybe not so willing to pay for it.

Fur baby - common name for a pet treated like one of the family. I used it rather tongue in cheek to indicate that folk with fur babies often spend big on them, as they would for a human child.

Subscription is for capsules.

No, my user name is complete coincidence, and relates to the Greek myth. I am a shareholder, however, and was one long before this product was even thought of.

The Principal Scientist at PIL said the Rheumatology Research Unit was very pleased with the results.

As I type this, another coincidence, NBR Radio is broadcasting quite a lengthy item on PIL and Arthrem.

[Bjauck]

Fur baby - common name for a pet treated like one of the family. .... Aka Fur-kid.

[artemis]

Half year report to 30 June released. Link below. Projections suggest cash flow positive by end of 2016. Capital raising coming. Also coming 3 new products in the pipeline.

Interesting that artemisia annua is the basis for the malaria treatment which has just got a Nobel prize. PIL was pursuing the malaria angle when they found that folk in those trials got arthritis relief.

Extract

Sales in New Zealand are exceeding budgets and growing. There has been
a large increase in the average monthly sales since May 2015 when the company
announced the positive preliminary clinical trial findings. Sales of the company’s
flagship product Arthrem® have increased by more than 150% compared to the
previous 12 month average monthly sales.
The company has had some sales success in the United States but is awaiting
publication of its clinical trial results before embarking on a concerted public relations
campaign. The US e-commerce platform is fully operational and a soft launch in June
exceeded budget. Promisia is testing various offerings in an effort to determine the
most effective sales strategy. The US market represents the greatest opportunity
for Promisia to increase revenues. The market is approximately 90 times larger
than New Zealand and it carries with it a higher level of discretionary spending.

http://www.promisia.com/financial-reports.

[Lola]

Fur baby - common name for a pet treated like one of the family. I used it rather tongue in cheek to indicate that folk with fur babies often spend big on them, as they would for a human child.

Subscription is for capsules.

No, my user name is complete coincidence, and relates to the Greek myth. I am a shareholder, however, and was one long before this product was even thought of.

The Principal Scientist at PIL said the Rheumatology Research Unit was very pleased with the results.

As I type this, another coincidence, NBR Radio is broadcasting quite a lengthy item on PIL and Arthrem.

Bit of action lately. Rights issue which was flagged has kept a lid on the price. But this will lift soon I guess. Quite a good announcement from the chairman yesterday confirming publication of the Clinical Trials in an international medical journal called Clinical Rheumatology. Those outfits are widely read and followed by the professionals. Due diligence should include visiting a pharmacy or two and just asking about the stuff.

[bung5]

I think this will be a big year for PIL coming up . Turning cashflow positive, breaking into USA and Australia market on a bigger scale. Enough cash in the bank to get them on the way now for some serious growth.

[Lola]

I think this will be a big year for PIL coming up . Turning cashflow positive, breaking into USA and Australia market on a bigger scale. Enough cash in the bank to get them on the way now for some serious growth.

You might be right Bung. They seem to be quietly achieving set targets that new management have set themselves. Promising....no pun intended.

[artemis]

Couple of updates from the recent annual shareholder meeting.

A lot of effort has gone into supporting and upgrading the online global sales platform.

Plenty of TV ads (using real people not actors) and this is boosting sales (revenue more than the ad spend). Good idea to trial in NZ which is usually regarded as a good test bed. Plus there was an article earlier this year about a young cyclist who took Arthrem with good results, and sales spiked.

An independent pharmacy sales company told PIL recently that Arthrem was the fastest moving single product in pharmacies in the June quarter.

Canine version of Arthrem not ready for release yet. So far only palatable for 70% of breeds, which is too low, they are working on it.

PIL have stopped NZ pharmacies from selling Arthrem via their websites as the information given was not what PIL wanted) not sure why). Plus PIL margin is better if they sell direct from the PIL website. Seems like a mistake to me. Surely a problem which has been solved many times.

Overall they are optimistic about revenue and thus share price. We'll see, but they do seem to be laying very good groundwork.

[jim9358]

Joined today whoever else is trying to buy at 0.023c The marketing model seems good to me having been in that game myself 24 years now! There will be a point of critical mass where things start to roll along positively without so much "forcing" , or even completely go off! Gotta be in for the chance of that. :t_up: Discl. I got first bad dose of hip-socket arthritis a year ago!

[artemis]

Joined today whoever else is trying to buy at 0.023c The marketing model seems good to me having been in that game myself 24 years now! There will be a point of critical mass where things start to roll along positively without so much "forcing" , or even completely go off! Gotta be in for the chance of that. :t_up: Discl. I got first bad dose of hip-socket arthritis a year ago!

What is your opinion of PIL no longer allowing online sales In NZ from pharmacy retailers?

[youngatheart]

Hmmm, suddenly there's a bit of a run on the SP... Is the Half Year results out tomorrow? Perhaps someone has a whiff of what's coming...

[jim9358]

What is your opinion of PIL no longer allowing online sales In NZ from pharmacy retailers?

I can understand that, in that retailers get lazy about generating sales in-store. Then all that happens is a price-war gets going across the net. The supplier wants the brick-n-mortar store to capture the people in their neighbourhood with the product.

Interesting that last time I went to local pharmacy for a prevent cold/flue remedy they chucked an Arthrem pamphlet in the bag: Perfect! Strategy is working. ;-)

Seems whoever they have got on-board, or from outside, directing their marketing they are quite good! ...it is a very tough (precision required) game in the small market (pop.n) of NZ!

[youngatheart]

I see that last year's report was released 4.30pm last Friday in August so expect the same again - tomorrow. Could be the next BLT!

[jim9358]

Someone is manipulating jumping it to 27 when offers at 23, 24, 25! I'm not offering anymore!

[jim9358]

Finally got my offer: Really pleased to be into this (at right price) even if it takes a while to become a serious stock. Now I'm a holder intend sharing biz ideas with them direct! (but as mentioned, think they have someone good on-board in the marketing game) Next sales reports will be the tell-all. If what I'm picking this stock could go amongst the best;-)

[artemis]

Good news for Promisia, still a penny stock but maybe not such a 'penny dreadful' now. Another loss but nearly a million in sales, and apart from NZ target markets are barely touched yet. It was mentioned at the recent ASM that sales revenue in NZ exceeds the advertising spend. I see a lot of TV and internet advertising.

Sounds like Arthrem for dogs is well on the way, with the palatibility issue apparently sorted. Could be a lucrative global market as it is a natural product, and cheaper than a visit to the vet plus prescription.

And a hint of another product with a clinical trial begun.

[jim9358]

Good news for Promisia, still a penny stock but maybe not such a 'penny dreadful' now. Another loss but nearly a million in sales, and apart from NZ target markets are barely touched yet. It was mentioned at the recent ASM that sales revenue in NZ exceeds the advertising spend. I see a lot of TV and internet advertising.

Sounds like Arthrem for dogs is well on the way, with the palatibility issue apparently sorted. Could be a lucrative global market as it is a natural product, and cheaper than a visit to the vet plus prescription.

And a hint of another product with a clinical trial begun.

:t_up: someone just made me 28% better off today LOL. Already thinking to increase my holding. Cripes, if they go to a dollar next couple years I could retire! ...ride my MT-bike more! ;-) A million sales is poor really: It's the turn-over barely good enough for a one-man-band. We'll know they're worth something when they get to TEN mill in sales which they need to get to pronto to stretch out time that they'll get "run over" by competitors! IMHO.

[Leftfield]

:t_up: someone just made me 28% better off today LOL. Already thinking to increase my holding. Cripes, if they go to a dollar next couple years I could retire! ...ride my MT-bike more! ;-) A million sales is poor really: It's the turn-over barely good enough for a one-man-band. We'll know they're worth something when they get to TEN mill in sales which they need to get to pronto to stretch out time that they'll get "run over" by competitors! IMHO.

Well done holders.....I sense the beginnings of another BLT here!

[jim9358]

Well done holders.....I sense the beginnings of another BLT here!

sure hope not! (tongue-n-cheek right?)

[jim9358]

QUOTE:
"as at 08:30:27, Tuesday 30 August, 2016 (NZT)HALFYR: PIL: 600% sales increase for Promisia
PIL
30/08/2016 08:30
HALFYR
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0830 HRS Promisia Integrative Limited

HALFYR: PIL: 600% sales increase for Promisia

Report of the Chairman and Chief Executive

The Chairman and Chief Executive are pleased to report the Half Year Report
for Promisia Integrative Limited and its subsidiaries ("the Group") for the
six month period ended 30 June 2016.

Sales
We are pleased to report healthy sales of $994,098 for Arthrem which is
$850,000, or 600%, more than the sales of $142,000 for the same period in
2015.
According to IRI-AZTEC scan pharmacy data, Arthrem is the fasting growing
brand and product, in dollar terms, for 2016. It also ranks 13th among
brands in dollar terms in pharmacy for New Zealand.

Australia
The company is making good progress towards the launch of Arthrem in
Australia. Arthrem is now manufactured in a Therapeutic Goods of Australia
(TGA) compliant facility with Good Manufacturing Practice certification.
This is an important step, and a prerequisite, to becoming a listed
complementary medicine in Australia. The listing will allow Arthrem to make
stronger evidence-based therapeutic claims in its advertising. Current
legislation prevents these claims being made in New Zealand.

United States of America
Sales in the US continue to grow. Cash spend in the US is being managed
carefully by testing different digital marketing models and using real time
measurement of their effectiveness.

Arthritis supplement for dogs
The major challenge for developing an arthritis supplement product for dogs
using the Group's unique plant extract has been masking the distinctive
pungent smell and bitter taste. Unlike humans, who can swallow a capsule
whole, dogs will smell and chew capsules. Therefore a soft gel capsule is
not an option.

The company's Principal Scientist, Dr Sheena Hunt, has developed a
formulation that masks both the smell and taste of the extract, and is
palatable to dogs. Manufacturing trials are underway.

Financial Results
The $354,000 loss for the Group for the half year, compared to $575,000 for
2015 same period, is slightly below what was expected due to the delayed
expenditure for the launch of Arthrem in Australia and the completion of
development and launch of the arthritis supplement for dogs. Much of this
budgeted expenditure will be incurred in the second half of the year. The
loss includes exchange rate movements, interest expenses, amortisation of the
company's automated marketing website and 50% of known non-cash charges such
as the share option costs.

Research
The focus of the research programme for the first half of the year has been
the development of a palatable formulation for dogs. The company is also
researching other possible therapeutic applications for its extract. A
clinical trial has just started for another product.

Outlook
Promisia will continue to promote Arthrem aggressively in the New Zealand
market. The company is confident that it will exceed its 2016 objective of
capturing at least 3% of the potential New Zealand 305,000 person
osteoarthritis market before the end of the year.

Other priorities for the second half of the year include:
o Listing Arthrem as a complementary medicine in Australia
o Preparation for the launch of Arthrem in Australia in early 2017
o Completion of development and testing of the supplement for dogs
o Preparation of a product launch and marketing campaign for a dog arthritis
treatment in New Zealand and Australia
o Ongoing refinement of the marketing strategy in the US

On behalf of the directors and management we thank shareholders for their
continued support for the company.
End CA:00288096 For:PIL Type:HALFYR Time:2016-08-30 08:30:27"

[artemis]

Well done holders.....I sense the beginnings of another BLT here!

They are both science / evidence based. So a lot of dosh up front before revenue flows.

Both companies will need a steadily increasing number of repeat customers if they are not to spend too much on attracting new customers.

[Lola]

They are both science / evidence based. So a lot of dosh up front before revenue flows.

Both companies will need a steadily increasing number of repeat customers if they are not to spend too much on attracting new customers.

Agree to a degree. My casual observation is that PIL are somewhat more conservative and measured in their news than BLT who are keen on at least monthly "news of the day" releases. Both approaches are ok I guess.

[jim9358]

Quote from above: "...3% of the potential New Zealand 305,000 person osteoarthritis market before the end of the year."

Think i'll just "put this away in the draw" until end of year and they post improved sales.
In the meantime have banged my small holding to a sell at 5c flat. Guess I'll know there's positive action if someone kindly more than doubles my money!

;)

[s4draynz]

Been watching this for a few weeks. Its filling the gap nicely, and seems to be good support buying around 3 cents.

[Lola]

Been watching this for a few weeks. Its filling the gap nicely, and seems to be good support buying around 3 cents.

Yep turnover yesterday 4 million shares plus and almost another mill or so today . Stock has done quite well this year, up 200% in fact for those who took up entitlements in January.

[Leftfield]

QUARTER: PIL: Significant Sales Growth Continues

The Directors of Promisia Integrative Limited (NZX:PIL) are pleased to advise
that sales for the third quarter of the current financial year ending 30
September 2016 have maintained the trend set in the first half year as
detailed in the company's announcement of it half year results on 30 August
2016. Sales for the third quarter were $833,009, which is a 590% increase on
sales in the same quarter in 2015.

Sales for the first 9 months of 2016 have been $1,827,009 compared with sales
of $262,716 for the same period in 2015, which is a 595% increase.

The directors are considering a modest capital raising to fund the marketing
of Arthrem in Australia in 2017 and the launch in 2017 of the canine
arthritis product in New Zealand and Australia.

[Southern_Belle]

This holder very happy today

[artemis]

Tiny amount of dollars though.

The canine version could be a winner. Plenty of owners will do whatever it takes to help their pets. Whereas human doctor visits and drugs may be subsidised that is not the case with vet bills and drugs. So although Arthrem might not be a cheap alternative for humans, it probably is for dogs. With the bonus of being natural.

[Leftfield]

This holder very happy today

Same.....! ;-)

[Lola]

Tiny amount of dollars though.

The canine version could be a winner. Plenty of owners will do whatever it takes to help their pets. Whereas human doctor visits and drugs may be subsidised that is not the case with vet bills and drugs. So although Arthrem might not be a cheap alternative for humans, it probably is for dogs. With the bonus of being natural.


Yep agree that the dollar amounts may be tiny but they are growing week by week and the chart looks good.
People who took up their rights earlier this year at 1 cent should be feeling pleased that they did. 1 cent to 4 cents....nothing else on the NZX touches that this year. And its not even a mining exploration stock.

[s4draynz]

PIL
11/11/2016 10:23
GENERAL
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 1023 HRS Promisia Integrative Limited

GENERAL: PIL: Year to Date Sales Exceed $2 million

The directors of Promisia Integrative Limited are pleased to advise that
total sales for the first 10 months of the year have exceeded $2 million.
Sales for the month of October exceeded $300,000 for the first time.

Final sales for the month of October were $325,587 from all sources but
mainly from sales in New Zealand. Sales for the 10 months to 31 October 2016
were $2,152,596, which is a 574% increase over same period sales in 2015.

For further information please contact:

Mr Stephen Underwood, Chairman, on 04 499 3412 or 027 499 3387

Mr Charles Daily, Chief Executive Officer, on 04 894 8524 or 021 643 906
End CA:00292523 For:PIL Type:GENERAL Time:2016-11-11 10:23:23

[Yoda]

Wow, floated at 50 c back in the day, it does remind me of BLIS THAT FLOATED AT $1 .

my concern is that there is basically one product, with one scientist. If she got run over, what would happen to the company?
They must have things in place for that sort of thing ?
Any thoughts

Not just good for arthritis but cancer too...... Now this would be a good marketing strategy.......
"Research to develop antimalarial drugs led to the discovery of artemisinin, a compound which is extracted from Artemisia annua,( same plant that PIL use )
. It is proven, that artemisinin has anti-cancer activity as well, because it contains an endoperoxide group. Artemisinin has a high anti-cancer activity due to its interaction with iron complexes[37] in the blood. This shows that artemisinin derivatives induce apoptosis( death of ) of cancer cells as well.[38]"

not holding yet, but plan on some.

[Lola]

Wow, floated at 50 c back in the day, it does remind me of BLIS THAT FLOATED AT $1 .

my concern is that there is basically one product, with one scientist. If she got run over, what would happen to the company?
They must have things in place for that sort of thing ?
Any thoughts

Not just good for arthritis but cancer too...... Now this would be a good marketing strategy.......
"Research to develop antimalarial drugs led to the discovery of artemisinin, a compound which is extracted from Artemisia annua,( same plant that PIL use )
. It is proven, that artemisinin has anti-cancer activity as well, because it contains an endoperoxide group. Artemisinin has a high anti-cancer activity due to its interaction with iron complexes[37] in the blood. This shows that artemisinin derivatives induce apoptosis( death of ) of cancer cells as well.[38]"

not holding yet, but plan on some.

Couple of comments:
One
The company was "there" before the PhD joined so that observation is rubbish and irrelevant and
Two
To my knowledge the company hasnt said anyhing about Artemesia being a cancer fix.

So, Yoda whats your problem?

[Yoda]

Couple of comments:
One
The company was "there" before the PhD joined so that observation is rubbish and irrelevant and
Two
To my knowledge the company hasnt said anyhing about Artemesia being a cancer fix.

So, Yoda whats your problem?

wow, lola. Not sure how to take that. :-)
i don't have any problem. I was just going to edit my post re Dr Hunt as there are obviously alot of others there, and it was a silly comment. Thankyou.
So far they are just working with one thing , but as they say in their reports, they will be developing other things once Arthrem has established its place in the market.

Re the "cancer fix", no they haven't said anything about that , but plenty of other research papers have, regarding the same plant that Arthrem is extracted from. My point was that there may be some possibility to explore that . There are lots of supporting evidence the Artemisia annua plant is useful for various thing including malaria etc
DYOR
thanks for your comment .hope you make lots of money on this one. It it goes back up to 50c we will.

[s4draynz]

chart is looking good, as is the price action for the last two days. The announcements have been well 'timed' on the pullbacks. Theres not alot on offer...

[artemis]

I don't believe PIL will say anything about cancer unless / until there is very good published evidence. That is not the way they do things. Not to say Arthrem won't be 'discovered' by a different market - it's what the internet does best. Perhaps PIL buyers see an opportunity. 22% up today.

The company has a contracted supply of raw material and a process for high quality extraction. So, well positioned as percy would say.

[Leftfield]

Yesterday in the last hour of trading (or so) the SP suddenly spiked up to .05c. I thought it rather odd at the time and now today I see a news release re a new rights issue saying,

"Under the offer, the company’s shareholders can apply for one New Share for every 10 Existing Shares held at 5.00pm on Friday, 25 November 2016, at $0.03 per new share. The company’s shares last traded at $0.050 per share."

The coincidence of yesterdays late afternoon rise and today's press release would seem to be pretty questionable IMHO.

[GTM 3442]

"The coincidence of yesterdays late afternoon rise and today's press release would seem to be pretty questionable IMHO."

If you have a spare wet bus ticket, you could send it to the NZX. They'll know what to do.

[s4draynz]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/86820469/promisia-seeks-cash-to-give-itself-a-leg-up-in-2017

[artemis]

"Dietary supplements maker and 'penny dreadful' Promisia Integrative was the outright winner on the broader NZX market with a 248% price gain"

Their advertising in NZ sells more product than it costs. That bodes well for other markets, with Australia next off the block.

www.nbr.co.nz/article/year-review-sheen-comes-nz-yield-story-global-interest-rates-rise

[Yoda]

Thanks Artemis. SP MAY MOVE UP AGAIN NOW THE Share offer was over subed. My wish list was scaled down to 20 %.ish so well over subscribed . I consider then more of a natural medicine, than dietary supplement ... Maybe , probably , i think .........

[artemis]

Thanks Artemis. SP MAY MOVE UP AGAIN NOW THE Share offer was over subed. My wish list was scaled down to 20 %.ish so well over subscribed . I consider then more of a natural medicine, than dietary supplement ... Maybe , probably , i think .........

I think there are restrictions in NZ as to what products can be called, and what claims can be made about them. Australia has different categories which allow more claims to be made.

And I agree it is more a natural medicine. 2015 Nobel prize for medicine was won for use of artemisia annua extract to treat malaria. IIRC Promisia's first foray into this product was for malaria. The initial trials came up with a surprise finding - participants reported arthritis improvement. And the rest, as they say, is history (we hope).

[Yoda]

Thanks for that helpful post. Shall we take some fish oil with that from NZK .? New listing looks interesting . Have a good new year. Im off to get some sun.

[FarmerGeorge]

Valuation looks rich if the sales growth stalls. If they can maintain the growth (even better, the growth in growth) then this will look very cheap in another 18-24 months. Just need to watch for sales numbers when announced.
Wondering if anyone else out there has tried it, any feedback on the efficacy? I'm less concerned with what it's called, than whether it can consistently have an effect on general population... ?

[horus1]

I use it. It has a good affect and I bought more shares on the reports I heard from the physio and chemist.

[peat]

I've spoken to a Doctor that uses it , but also a mother in law who couldn't stomach it.

[RGR367]

I've spoken to a Doctor that uses it , but also a mother in law who couldn't stomach it.

In this case, take the word of your mother-in-law :p

disc: not a holder but could be interested in about 2-3 yrs time

[Absolute144]

Thanks Artemis. SP MAY MOVE UP AGAIN NOW THE Share offer was over subed. My wish list was scaled down to 20 %.ish so well over subscribed . I consider then more of a natural medicine, than dietary supplement ... Maybe , probably , i think .........

Can.someone.please.explain.the.scaling.Do.we.get.a .80%.refund.cheque.in.the.mail.or.do.they.keep.all .the.funds.and.you.just.end.up.paying.5x's.as.much .for.the.additional.subscription.shares???You.gues sed.it-no.spacebar.

[silverblizzard888]

Can.someone.please.explain.the.scaling.Do.we.get.a .80%.refund.cheque.in.the.mail.or.do.they.keep.all .the.funds.and.you.just.end.up.paying.5x's.as.much .for.the.additional.subscription.shares???You.gues sed.it-no.spacebar.

Since there was an over subscription of shares, what happen is they scale everyones order back until it reaches the amount that they wanted to issue initially, you only pay for what you got and nothing more. You will get your funds back to the details you proved, that or they send you a whole lot of Arthrem to make up for it ;)

[s4draynz]

Can.someone.please.explain.the.scaling.Do.we.get.a .80%.refund.cheque.in.the.mail.or.do.they.keep.all .the.funds.and.you.just.end.up.paying.5x's.as.much .for.the.additional.subscription.shares???You.gues sed.it-no.spacebar.

hmmm.. you should probably have known the answer to that before you sent your hard earned cash away . . .

[FarmerGeorge]

Can.someone.please.explain.the.scaling.Do.we.get.a .80%.refund.cheque.in.the.mail.or.do.they.keep.all .the.funds.and.you.just.end.up.paying.5x's.as.much .for.the.additional.subscription.shares???You.gues sed.it-no.spacebar.

I've received my refund of the excess they did not need, so if your account details were correct I'd expect all subscribers have. Although, to s4draynz point above this is the kind of thing you really need to be clear on before sending 'anyone' money.

[Southern_Belle]

Refund received --used it to top up yesterday. Nice little bonus rise today. ...Happy to hold

[FarmerGeorge]

In this case, take the word of your mother-in-law :p

disc: not a holder but could be interested in about 2-3 yrs time


Best to approach this as almost a VC type investment at this point. I'd be surprised if there was a positive NPAT this FY. But I think PIL is Op CF positive now which is the first step. I'm looking to buy more if we come back into low 5c range before the next ann (which I'm assuming will be that sales growth is continuing to be strong, though unlikely to be as strong as last ann which was 5-600% or some such). Whenever I ask about the product in pharmacies the staff tell me it is moving well. Price point feels high to me though.

[Yoda]

We might see people take profits from the .03c placement so i think the SP will fall a bit more. There do seem quite a few sellers v buyers for the last week or so. Then we might pick up a few more.

[s4draynz]

QUARTER: PIL: 4th QTR Sales - Significant Growth Continues







The Directors of Promisia Integrative Limited (NZX:PIL) are pleased to advise


that sales for the third quarter of the current financial year ending 31


December 2016 have maintained the trend set throughout 2016 year as detailed


in the company's previous quarterly sales announcements. Sales for the fourth


quarter were $842,576, which is a 485% increase on sales in the same quarter


in 2015.





Sales for the full 12 months of 2016 are $2,668,068 compared with sales of


$406,644 for the same period in 2015, which is a 556% increase.





The company also traded profitably for the 4th quarter of 2016, and will


report the full year's annual report in due course.





An independent report shows that Arthrem is currently the No.1 Single selling


product in NZ Pharmacies in dollar terms.

[Balance]

Sales momentum seems to be stalling?

3rd Q - $833,009
4th Q - $842,576

Is there seasonality to this drug? Sufferers suffer less during warmer months?

[artemis]

Sales momentum seems to be stalling?

3rd Q - $833,009
4th Q - $842,576

Is there seasonality to this drug? Sufferers suffer less during warmer months?

Suspect there is a seasonal effect. Osteoarthritis runs in my family, and I remember my mother having to soak her hands in warm water to get them moving on cold mornings. (Anecdata.)

PIL has been doing a huge amount of TV advertising here, and obviously have found that sales revenue exceeds advertising cost. That bodes well for similar advertising in other markets, Australia probably next off the block. It would be interesting to find out how many are repeat sales and how many one off. It is the repeat sales that are important for ongoing revenue.

[FarmerGeorge]

Suspect there is a seasonal effect. Osteoarthritis runs in my family, and I remember my mother having to soak her hands in warm water to get them moving on cold mornings. (Anecdata.)

PIL has been doing a huge amount of TV advertising here, and obviously have found that sales revenue exceeds advertising cost. That bodes well for similar advertising in other markets, Australia probably next off the block. It would be interesting to find out how many are repeat sales and how many one off. It is the repeat sales that are important for ongoing revenue.

Hard to know the answer yet. EG were the Q3 sales a group which bought several months worth of product, meaning a large chunk of Q4 sales were new to the product OR were the majority of Q3 sales the same people who were also buying in Q4, in which case the product has already reached a level of market saturation? Also, the potential for seasonal effect is certainly there. Also, we don't know much about vendor inventories - were they building up in Q3 and running down in Q4, which would tell us something quite different from if it were the opposite.

The bigger concern for me is the cheerleading tone of the announcement. It is obvious that Q4 sales were not significantly greater than Q3, so why not discuss that, and the Directors response to this fact, rather than apparently ignore it?! We are here speculating on the possible reasons for something instead of getting some informed views on it.

[s4draynz]

well, looks like the market ha had time to digest the news..

[FarmerGeorge]

well, looks like the market ha had time to digest the news..

Not sure the volume is large enough to infer anything about the 'market'. Either way, slow drift down feels like a reasonably likely outcome until we see FY results. Key will be timeline to FY profitability (FY18?) and where the next stage of revenue growth is coming from (Aust? US? Pet Food?). Is anyone planning to attend any planned public presentation?
There needs to be some real growth in the pipeline to justify even current market cap. That said, full disc., I like the product, still hold.

[FarmerGeorge]

Unaudited financials released this week (Dec FY). Confirmed a few positives, in particular it looks like Arthrem is viable and the business is profitable on a run-rate basis (ie looks like profitable each month on current sales volume). A few weird/disappointing things: announcement that Jan was ahead of Jan '16 (completely irrelevant for early stage growth business, question is how the company is doing month-on-month); no timeline on Australian registration or finalising the dog product (just noted as 'priorities' for 2017).
Next couple of quarters sales will be really interesting. I wonder how much upside there is in NZ on current strategy if Arthrem is already the 'top-selling product, by dollar value'. Sales don't need to grow at last years rate but do need to grow significantly to justify current valuation. If growth in NZ stalls or falls to single digits and there are further delays in Aust then another cap raise is certainly possible.
I sound too negative - these are just watch points. Overall I think this is a great story and the company is doing an excellent job so far. I'm just wary of current valuation. Still holding.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/298173

Now why would the CEO resign suddenly and with immediate effect?

Something does not smell right.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/298173

Now why would the CEO resign suddenly and with immediate effect?

Something does not smell right.

First the Chairman stepped down, and then resigned as a director shortly after.

May 2016 : "Mr Malcolm Johnson, Chairman of Promisia Integrative Limited has stepped down
as the Company's Chairman. Mr Johnson said "The Company has a clear strategic direction and an exciting
product in Arthrem which already has a considerable following and is capable of aiding many more arthritis sufferers with other products in the pipeline". Mr Johnson commented that the Company had a bright future and that during his three year tenure he had put in place a suite of best practice governing documents which would stand the Company in good stead."

Then, the CEO steps down.

If there is more upside, why would they be resigning?

Wonder if they are selling or have already gotten rid of some of their shares to cash in on the millions of dollars of gains they are sitting on?

[Absolute144]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/298173

Now why would the CEO resign suddenly and with immediate effect?

Something does not smell right.

Balance,it.must.be.the.cannabis.smoke.wafting.thro ugh.from.the.ASX:)

[Balance]

Balance,it.must.be.the.cannabis.smoke.wafting.thro ugh.from.the.ASX:)

Haha - market must be getting a waft as well of the cannabis?

Cannot just have the exChairman and exCEO selling out of their shares (ie. smoking the cannabis per your analogy) at these levels?

[s4draynz]

4 years is a good tenure for a CEO these days. I agree with Balance, responsible officers cannot just dump their stock when they leave. If you look at what he has done in the past , its been about start up, and move on. Now, hes probably got substantial holdings in Wholly Bagels, and Promisia... and is off looking for the next iron in the fire....

Just my opinion.

[FarmerGeorge]

Valuation coming back to something reasonable. Depending on how Q1 sales look relative to Q4 I'm thinking it might be worth buying a few more. New CEO needs to be solid but realistically we're not looking for the next Jack Welch - just someone competent with some marketing/retail/supply chain experience.

[Balance]

First the Chairman stepped down, and then resigned as a director shortly after.

May 2016 : "Mr Malcolm Johnson, Chairman of Promisia Integrative Limited has stepped down
as the Company's Chairman. Mr Johnson said "The Company has a clear strategic direction and an exciting
product in Arthrem which already has a considerable following and is capable of aiding many more arthritis sufferers with other products in the pipeline". Mr Johnson commented that the Company had a bright future and that during his three year tenure he had put in place a suite of best practice governing documents which would stand the Company in good stead."

Then, the CEO steps down.

If there is more upside, why would they be resigning?

Wonder if they are selling or have already gotten rid of some of their shares to cash in on the millions of dollars of gains they are sitting on?

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/299990

Hmmmm - 24% decline in 1Q 17 sales vs 4Q 16 sales.

There goes the growth story.

[Leftfield]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/299990

Hmmmm - 24% decline in 1Q 17 sales vs 4Q 16 sales.

There goes the growth story.


"The quarterly sales of $643,588 were up by 169% from the same period in 2016."

The growth story has not gone entirely.

However, I agree the departure of the CEO and Chairman is a major concern until we see news of replacements and the planned new products and Australia launch, there is a HUGE need for caution around this company as indicated by the Market's 50% reduction in the SP from last years highs.

[horus1]

I sold out as there is a competitive product available at half the price

[Balance]

"The quarterly sales of $643,588 were up by 169% from the same period in 2016."

The growth story has not gone entirely.

However, I agree the departure of the CEO and Chairman is a major concern until we see news of replacements and the planned new products and Australia launch, there is a HUGE need for caution around this company as indicated by the Market's 50% reduction in the SP from last years highs.

The quarter that sales go backwards from a previous quarter is when the company will be marked down by investors whose definition of growth stock is one of sales increases consecutively quarter to quarter.

Too coincidental that CEO and Chairman decided to 'retire/quit' imo.

[airedale]

I sold out as there is a competitive product available at half the price
Hi Horus, what is it called? I did try Promisia but got no benefit.

[Balance]

Hi Horus, what is it called? I did try Promisia but got no benefit.

Arthri-Remedy - 120 capsules $40.60 vs Arthrem $89.99 180 capsules

Both state their capsules contain herbal extract Artemisia Annua.

Note : Arthrem does state that around 75% of users get relief - that's actually high for a herbal relief.

[airedale]

Arthri-Remedy - 120 capsules $40.60 vs Arthrem $89.99 180 capsules

Both state their capsules contain herbal extract Artemisia Annua.

Note : Arthrem does state that around 75% of users get relief - that's actually high for a herbal relief.
Thanks Balance, I will give it a try.

[jonu]

Arthri-Remedy - 120 capsules $40.60 vs Arthrem $89.99 180 capsules

Both state their capsules contain herbal extract Artemisia Annua.

Note : Arthrem does state that around 75% of users get relief - that's actually high for a herbal relief.

Are they comparable weights, mcg etc? Are you comparing apples with apples? 120 capsules of one brand might weigh less than 80 of another. Or have less active ingredient per capsule.

[horus1]

The chemist told me the Arthri Remedy were half price and that is correct, furthermore they appear to me to have a better distribution chain.Maybe the management changes were because of no brand protection by PIL.

[jonu]

The chemist told me the Arthri Remedy were half price and that is correct, furthermore they appear to me to have a better distribution chain.Maybe the management changes were because of no brand protection by PIL.

Horus you missed my point. Half the price doesn't necessarily equate to the quality of your purchase. A Corolla maybe half the price of a BMW but are you getting anything like the same quality of car?

[horus1]

In my opinion they are as good and a 50% lower price is a good selling point and as I say the GO distribution channel looks better. Its half the price for what I think is at least as good a product and it must affect PIL sales,

[Lola]

In my opinion they are as good and a 50% lower price is a good selling point and as I say the GO distribution channel looks better. Its half the price for what I think is at least as good a product and it must affect PIL sales,

I just purchased a bottle of the Go Healthy Arthri Remedy
Interestingly the label says it works " Best with Go Glucosamine AND Go Fish Oil"
That's sounds like at least double the price of Arthrem to me

[Balance]

Horus you missed my point. Half the price doesn't necessarily equate to the quality of your purchase. A Corolla maybe half the price of a BMW but are you getting anything like the same quality of car?

I have not checked.

Most people who try the supplement will be more interested in which one works for them, and the starting point when deciding to give it a go is price?

[jonu]

In my opinion they are as good and a 50% lower price is a good selling point and as I say the GO distribution channel looks better. Its half the price for what I think is at least as good a product and it must affect PIL sales,

Horus I have no axe to grind either way, but you sound like a snake oil salesman's dream. You haven't given a reason why it's as good but you sure do like the price...but wait, there's more....buy 3 more by the time you're finished reading this post and receive 12 months worth absolutely free...oops times up...never mind buy 2 at twice the normal price and receive a third for half the double price!!!! Unbelievable value!!!!

[Kay]

Surely pil are snake oil salesmen themselves....max advertising...fund the only scientific research out there...high share price...sell your shares.

Then release the canine product...repeat advertising...make money off emotionally challenged dog owners...job done

Or am i being overly flippant!?

[Leftfield]

Surely pil are snake oil salesmen themselves....max advertising...fund the only scientific research out there...high share price...sell your shares.

Then release the canine product...repeat advertising...make money off emotionally challenged dog owners...job done

Or am i being overly flippant!?

Crikey they are almost as bad as TIL (selling expensive candles and rosehip oil) LOL

[horus1]

I am pretty cold when it comes to losing money on shares. I have sold out , kept a few for interest but they have dropped since I got out. I have a big portfolio and am used to having small co , high risk shares, my instinct tells me these will have cash flow problems in the future .TIL are different , they have good distribution and their products are getting more established.

[Balance]

I am pretty cold when it comes to losing money on shares. I have sold out , kept a few for interest but they have dropped since I got out. I have a big portfolio and am used to having small co , high risk shares, my instinct tells me these will have cash flow problems in the future .TIL are different , they have good distribution and their products are getting more established.

Most of us are cold losing money on shares?

[Balance]

Are they comparable weights, mcg etc? Are you comparing apples with apples? 120 capsules of one brand might weigh less than 80 of another. Or have less active ingredient per capsule.

Have a look at the capsules and they state as follows:

Arthrem - Each capsule contains 150 mg standardized extract of Artemisia annua plus grape seed oil to enhance natural absorption.

Arthri-Remedy - Each capsule contains artemisia annua extract 5400mg.

Try and make sense of it if you can!

[Blue Horseshoe]

Artemisia Annua is the name of the plant and the active ingredient of the plant is artemisinin,
I would think Arthrem contains the standardized extract Artemisinin.
We're as Arthri Remedy just contains the the whole plant material.

[jonu]

Have a look at the capsules and they state as follows:

Arthrem - Each capsule contains 150 mg standardized extract of Artemisia annua plus grape seed oil to enhance natural absorption.

Arthri-Remedy - Each capsule contains artemisia annua extract 5400mg.

Try and make sense of it if you can!

The key word here is standardised. See Blue Horshoe post #94. I'm picking if it's not standardised you have no real idea of the strength, hence why one is half the price!

[Balance]

The key word here is standardised. See Blue Horshoe post #94. I'm picking if it's not standardised you have no real idea of the strength, hence why one is half the price!

Whichever works is the ultimate test.

[s4draynz]

i personally think its a case of apples and oranges, and without a scientific evaluation who would know. Go Healthy NZ have a large range of Products. Promisia are focused on one. Possibly Go Healthy are piggy backing off the back of the success of arthrem. Bound to happen.. If o have the choice between coca-cola and supermarket brand cola... i will buy the coca cola ....

[Balance]

i personally think its a case of apples and oranges, and without a scientific evaluation who would know. Go Healthy NZ have a large range of Products. Promisia are focused on one. Possibly Go Healthy are piggy backing off the back of the success of arthrem. Bound to happen.. If o have the choice between coca-cola and supermarket brand cola... i will buy the coca cola ....

Of the two, GO Healthy is actually the more established brand!

[Leftfield]

An encouraging step towards the Australian Market...... early days tho'.

Arthrem listed as a complementary medicine in Australia

The directors of Promisia Integrative Limited announced today that the
dietary supplement, Arthrem, has been listed as a complementary medicine with
the Therapeutic Goods Administration in Australia.

Current rules in New Zealand prevent manufacturers of dietary supplements
from making any therapeutic claims, even if there is clinical evidence of
such efficacy. The regulations are different in Australia, as Chief Scientist
Dr Sheena Hunt explains, "Listing as a complementary medicine allows us to
make evidence-based claims in our advertising and marketing. This means that
in Australia we can refer to our published clinical trial evidence that
Arthrem can reduce pain and stiffness associated with osteoarthritis."

According to the Australian Government's Institute of Health and Welfare,
more than 2.1 million people in Australia (approximately 9% of the
population) suffer from osteoarthritis.

[Southern_Belle]

An encouraging step towards the Australian Market...... early days tho'.

Arthrem listed as a complementary medicine in Australia

The directors of Promisia Integrative Limited announced today that the
dietary supplement, Arthrem, has been listed as a complementary medicine with
the Therapeutic Goods Administration in Australia.

Current rules in New Zealand prevent manufacturers of dietary supplements
from making any therapeutic claims, even if there is clinical evidence of
such efficacy. The regulations are different in Australia, as Chief Scientist
Dr Sheena Hunt explains, "Listing as a complementary medicine allows us to
make evidence-based claims in our advertising and marketing. This means that
in Australia we can refer to our published clinical trial evidence that
Arthrem can reduce pain and stiffness associated with osteoarthritis."

According to the Australian Government's Institute of Health and Welfare,
more than 2.1 million people in Australia (approximately 9% of the
population) suffer from osteoarthritis.The market likes this announcement

[Rossimarnz]

Also a recipient of a Callaghan Innovation R&D grant for the dog product development

https://www.callaghaninnovation.govt.nz/grants/formulation-analysis-and-testing-osteoarthritis-treatment-dogs

[FarmerGeorge]

These are two great pieces of news. However I'm not quite clear on the purpose of the Callaghan grant - my understanding was that PIL was aiming for a product this year but I may be misremembering. Also - it will take time to ramp up sales in Australia, something which will be difficult without a CEO in place. Still hold but too many questions for me to get too excited just yet.

[Rossimarnz]

These are two great pieces of news. However I'm not quite clear on the purpose of the Callaghan grant - my understanding was that PIL was aiming for a product this year but I may be misremembering. Also - it will take time to ramp up sales in Australia, something which will be difficult without a CEO in place. Still hold but too many questions for me to get too excited just yet.

My misremembering matches yours FarmerGeorge

[silverblizzard888]

Doesn't quite justify the massive price jump today, but I guess theres a lot of nervous nellies thinking they will miss out on a one product company with one good year. I guess you only need one good investment, with one good product to do good in one market to live one good life right?

[s4draynz]

"Of the two, GO Healthy is actually the more established brand!" LOL.. yes true.. but which one tastes better ?? :)

[s4draynz]

Doesn't quite justify the massive price jump today, but I guess theres a lot of nervous nellies thinking they will miss out on a one product company with one good year. I guess you only need one good investment, with one good product to do good in one market to live one good life right?

yeh, thats what i was thinking when i put the house on xero when it was $3 a share....... :)

[artemis]

These are two great pieces of news. However I'm not quite clear on the purpose of the Callaghan grant - my understanding was that PIL was aiming for a product this year but I may be misremembering. Also - it will take time to ramp up sales in Australia, something which will be difficult without a CEO in place. Still hold but too many questions for me to get too excited just yet.

I think the grant was related to the canine product. The company is well advanced with this and it is potentially lucrative. No taxpayer subsided vet bills and products, so a natural product that works will be attractive to dog owners compared to the cost of vet bills. Especially for something like arthritis which requires long term treatment.

About Australia - NZ has been a test bed for advertising cost v sales. The company has reported that the advertising is worthwhile, so probably the same will apply over the ditch.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I'm not sure what they have in the product pipeline, but knowing the properties of artemisinin I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on a cancer fighting complementary medicine as well.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081014111309.htm

[artemis]

PIL annual report published today. Nothing new really, but the photos of the supercritical extraction process are well worth a look. This was key to the establishment of the company, though I have no idea what it is exactly and whether it is also used by others in that marketplace.

[bulyak]

Just received my proxy forms in the mail for the AGM next Tuesday. Great to see a few nominations in there. With only 3 board members and no CEO it will be interesting to see if any of the nominations are passed. My guess is that the current board might approve one so that they do not give up control but approving 2 would be a reach. 2 of them have extensive marketing experience, which is what this company needs. It is all about creating demand, which they appear to be demonstrating well here in NZ. Great product...

[Lola]

Just received my proxy forms in the mail for the AGM next Tuesday. Great to see a few nominations in there. With only 3 board members and no CEO it will be interesting to see if any of the nominations are passed. My guess is that the current board might approve one so that they do not give up control but approving 2 would be a reach. 2 of them have extensive marketing experience, which is what this company needs. It is all about creating demand, which they appear to be demonstrating well here in NZ. Great product...

I got my papers too and see there are three ladies nominated for the Board. Wonder what's in that Arthrem juice that turns them on so strongly , in a Governence sense of course.

[Leftfield]

I got my papers too and see there are three ladies nominated for the Board. Wonder what's in that Arthrem juice that turns them on so strongly , in a Governence sense of course.

Two of the ladies have now withdrawn...... pretty mickey mouse IMHO. what's in the Anthrem Juice that turns them off!!??

Director Nominations9:19am, 30 May 2017 | ADMIN30 MAY 2017
PROMISIA INTEGRATIVE LIMITED – DIRECTOR NOMINATIONS
The Directors of Promisia Integrative Limited (NZX: PIL) advise that Ms Barbara Donaldson, nominated by shareholders for election to the board of directors, has withdrawn her nomination and, accordingly, Resolution 5 in the Notice of Meeting will be withdrawn.

[Leftfield]

After my grumpy words re the withdrawal of 2 female director nominations I thought I had better go along to the PIL AGM today.

Positives
- CEO role currently being filled on an interim basis by Director Thomas Brankin on a voluntary/unpaid basis
- New pet product ready to be launched
- Hopeful of profit in FY18
- PIL v involved with the supplier of their raw material and monitors quality from seeds to harvest
- 1 x new female director seems to have good skills in marketing and internet.
- Well researched product with genuine benefits
- TGA certification in Aust is a major plus and allows for much stronger advertising claims in Australia than in NZ

Negatives
- New CEO not likely until end 2017
- New competitors trying to muscle in on Arthrem’s success in NZ
- Launch into Aus market not likely until late 2017 and then only 1 state initially
- No moat of IP protection for their key product
- Overly reliant on one product and one raw material supplier
- Clunky web site but due for improvement

Overall

Speculative and not for the faint hearted, but well worth watching.

[Lola]

After my grumpy words re the withdrawal of 2 female director nominations I thought I had better go along to the PIL AGM today.

Positives
- CEO role currently being filled on an interim basis by Director Thomas Brankin on a voluntary/unpaid basis
- New pet product ready to be launched
- Hopeful of profit in FY18
- PIL v involved with the supplier of their raw material and monitors quality from seeds to harvest
- 1 x new female director seems to have good skills in marketing and internet.
- Well researched product with genuine benefits
- TGA certification in Aust is a major plus and allows for much stronger advertising claims in Australia than in NZ

Negatives
- New CEO not likely until end 2017
- New competitors trying to muscle in on Arthrem’s success in NZ
- Launch into Aus market not likely until late 2017 and then only 1 state initially
- No moat of IP protection for their key product
- Overly reliant on one product and one raw material supplier
- Clunky web site but due for improvement

Overall

Speculative and not for the faint hearted, but well worth watching.

Thanks for all this L Field
Glad to here the acting CEO not a cost

By the way how many at the AGM?
Market cap only 20 mill so I guess only half a dozen or so?

[Leftfield]

Thanks for all this L Field
Glad to here the acting CEO not a cost

By the way how many at the AGM?
Market cap only 20 mill so I guess only half a dozen or so?

The meeting was held in a telephone box (well.... a tab bigger) so it didn't take many to fill it up. My guess 30 to 40 attendees. Healthy, tasty nibbles and not a sausage roll in sight.

[artemis]

Some additional notes from the PIL ASM.

Profit expected this FY.

The number of shareholders is increasing - now 20% more than last year

#1 risk is a break in the supply chain of artemisia annua. However PIL controls the chain and is working with the Tanzania growers to increase production, including by improving the growing environment, eg optimal fertiliser. 2016 production up 60% and same increase expected 2017. Drying sheds have been set up to guard against weather, and they will add sheds as needed. From the photos they look like big tents. The company has stock on hand.

The Chair would make no comment on the departure of the previous CEO.

The issue of board nominations being withdrawn was raised. Three nominations were received right before nominations closed. There was one board vacancy. The board talked to all three and decided on one nominee who has expertise in marketing including social media.

Arthrem

A few doctors are now prescribing Arthrem. One shareholder said from the floor that his doctor said he had prescribed it for 20 patients.

Australia launch of Arthrem in Victoria before the end of this year. PIL is allowed to make claims there about reducing pain and other medical efficacy. These claims are not permitted in NZ by MedSafe rules for natural products, even if there is scientific evidence. PIL are v careful to stay within the rules, as to break the rules could mean MedSafe requiring product to be withdrawn from sale.

There are now 3 competitors to Arthrem, compared to none last year. One is established brand GoHealthy. So far PIL is the only one with science backing it.

New TV ad for Arthrem from today.

One reason PIL is focussing on sales through pharmacies is that there are a few contraindications for those on other medications. Arthrem is one of the top sellers in dollar terms. Some anecdotal evidence that some customers are moving to other brands, then moving back to Arthrem.

Due Diligence has begun in the South Korea market.

Artevite

Canine product is called Artevite and will be sold via pet shops and vets. Maybe only initially, not sure. Launch is to be August and will include a TV ad.

Artemisia annua is very bitter, which is not so much an issue for humans because of gel caps. These are no good for dogs though as they chew and bite. PIL has gone to a lot of effort to make it palatable, some big scientific words used which I didn’t understand but they sounded good! They also talked about how they went about determining if Artevite was working to eg reduce pain. Can’t ask the dogs, but once the product is out there I’m guessing owners will know.

[bulyak]

Great info. Did you get to meet the new director?

[s4draynz]

bit of volume 'out of nowhere' today...

[Balance]

bit of volume 'out of nowhere' today...

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/303968

Being sold down - hardly surprising now that growth momentum has stalled into a snail's pace.

[s4draynz]

interesting. There was 800K on the bid for the match this morning, before any of the sellers turned up... possibly ...."smoke and mirrors..."

[FarmerGeorge]

I'm out of this one but worth keeping an eye on if they can get a few more channels going (ie Australia / Dogs). Even if not it might be worth a look sub 3c. Too much growth priced in for me right now though.

[artemis]

Report to 30 June published today. Australian launch of Arthrem a bit slower than expected but now scheduled for late September. NSW only to start with. PIL now have experience with advertising and distribution in NZ and the impact on sales (good). Assume they will follow the same path in NSW.

Launch of Artevite for dogs in NZ now also scheduled for late September. Turning the corner?

[bulyak]

Yes. Just saw this announcement. This is very encouraging. This combined with a new CEO should create some serious growth by year end.

[s4draynz]

INTERIM: PIL: Promisia appoints new Chief Executive

The directors of Promisia Integrative are pleased to report on the six months
to 30 June 2017 for the company and its subsidiaries. The period under
review has required a sharp refocusing of management effort to secure the
launch of Arthrem in Australia and the launch of Artevite in New Zealand.
Financial Results
Sales for the period were $1,318,000, a 33% increase over the same period in
the previous year. The operating net loss for the period was $349, 000, a
slight reduction on the 2016 result for the same period.
New Zealand Sales
Sales of Arthrem have stabilised and the market may have reached a point
where the rapid growth seen in 2016 has abated. The company believes that
market growth is available but at a slower rate than experienced in the past.
Competitive products have appeared, as expected, but their presence is
expected to grow the overall market. As a brand, Arthrem is well recognised
and continued to be the best selling over the counter item in pharmacies in
dollar terms. The company continues to work with its distributor to maximise
sales to pharmacies and has produced a package of instore support material
for pharmacies.
The company's online presence has been enhanced with an excellent response
level on Facebook. Positive customer testimonials are received regularly and
the level of online awareness and sales is increasing.
Australia
The directors are pleased to advise that the company has entered into a
pharmacy distribution agreement with Pharmabroker Sales Pty Ltd, a leading
wholesaler of a wide range of products to pharmacies across Australia. The
initial focus will be solely on New South Wales which has a higher percentage
of independent pharmacies rather than franchises or members of national
chains. Pharmabroker has been of considerable assistance to the company in
securing business relationships with other parties required for a successful
launch into this market.
The launch of Arthrem into the Australian market has taken longer than
anticipated. The company's strategy is based on using third parties to
provide services for either all or specific stages of the marketing chain.
It has taken much longer than expected to complete satisfactory arrangements.

The company is negotiating arrangements for the provision of order fulfilment
and debtor management services in Australia.
Pharmabroker will start marketing Arthrem to pharmacies from the beginning of
October 2017.
Canine Product
The company's product for the treatment of osteoarthritis in dogs is due for
release in late September 2017. The product is to be branded as Artevite and
will be sold through veterinary clinics, pet stores and online. The company
has signed a marketing and distribution agreement with Brooklands Pet
Products of New Plymouth which has an extensive countrywide marketing and
distribution network.
New Markets
The company continues to investigate other markets for Arthrem and one Asian
market is under active investigation with identification of import
requirements and securing regulatory approval being the focus of attention.
Recruitment of new Chief Executive
The directors of Promisia Integrative Ltd are pleased to announce the
appointment of Mr. Rene de Wit as the company's new Chief Executive.
Rene de Wit is an accomplished CEO and change manager with 25 years'
experience in FMCG, food manufacturing, printing, packaging, import/export,
financial services and logistics. He has been particularly successful in
leading and developing teams that deliver. His former roles include CEO or
General Manager positions with Watson & Son, Colorite Group, and Scalzo Food
Industries.
Rene holds a Master of Organic Chemistry and a MBA from the University of
Otago and will take up his position on 9 October 2017.
In the interim, the role of Acting Managing Director has been filled by
director Tom Brankin. The directors thank him for his commitment to the
company over the last six months.
For further information please contact:
Mr Stephen Underwood, Chairman on 027 499 3387
Mr Tom Brankin, Acting Managing Director on 021 944740
End CA:00307914 For:PIL Type:INTERIM Time:2017-09-28 09:40:32

[FarmerGeorge]

To me this is going through some standard operational delays for a small company. Nothing unexpected 'yet'. Price starting to look attractive again. Anyone else still have this on their radar?

[Clints]

Hi FG - I am new to this one, picked it up at 2.8c. Have you been in this one for long?

[Balance]

To me this is going through some standard operational delays for a small company. Nothing unexpected 'yet'. Price starting to look attractive again. Anyone else still have this on their radar?

Competitor offering exactly the same product - Twice the strength, same price as Arthrem. Currently available on special - 3 for price of 2!

Only one way for PIL's revenues and margins to go.

[Lola]

Competitor offering exactly the same product - Twice the strength, same price as Arthrem. Currently available on special - 3 for price of 2!

Only one way for PIL's revenues and margins to go.

Not sure that's correct
Go Healthy label says its best if you take it with two of their other products
That's kinda cute marketing don't cha think?

[Balance]

Not sure that's correct
Go Healthy label says its best if you take it with two of their other products
That's kinda cute marketing don't cha think?

Good friend of mine took Arthrem but his chemist recommended he switched over to Go Arthri-Remedy as exactly same product but stronger and cheaper. Chemist said not to worry about the other two products.

Arthrem is being discounted to match the competition and it is possible to get the 60 cap at $29.95 - way down on price of $45 last year.

Not saying one is better than the other - purely an observation of what's happening.

Arthrem has no IP or patent protection.

Both exChairman and CEO resigned, siting time to do other things. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to whether they have been selling down their shareholdings (and as non staff or director, no more SSH required)?

[FarmerGeorge]

Hi FG - I am new to this one, picked it up at 2.8c. Have you been in this one for long?

Not currently holding Clint - just an observation that the price is looking much cheaper. Though in my mind at least a lot hangs on the execution of the Australian / pet product sales.

[Kay]

They have chosen to create a new product to reduce arthritis in dogs...that's before they have attempted to sell their product to humans! (Outside of nz)...I'm no pharmacologist...I'm also no great expert in fundamentals...but I don't see how this is a long or short term investment?

I can't find any scientific studies to suggest it is anything but a placebo...unless their are facts out there I havnt yet uncovered?

[artemis]

They have chosen to create a new product to reduce arthritis in dogs...that's before they have attempted to sell their product to humans! (Outside of nz)...

That's not very logical, unless you think research and development should not be done in parallel. Canine arthritis is a potentially large market.


I can't find any scientific studies to suggest it is anything but a placebo...unless their are facts out there I havnt yet uncovered?

Where did you look? Not at all hard to find.

Our philosophy is simple — apply scientific testing to create effective, safe and trusted natural therapeutic products

https://arthrem.com/arthrem/scientific-evidence/

[Balance]

That's not very logical, unless you think research and development should not be done in parallel. Canine arthritis is a potentially large market.

Where did you look? Not at all hard to find.

Our philosophy is simple — apply scientific testing to create effective, safe and trusted natural therapeutic products


https://arthrem.com/arthrem/scientific-evidence/


You are right - pet owners are well known for being prepared to spend thousands of dollars on treatment on their beloved pets (especially dogs) rather than themselves. So market is huge.

Arthrem certainly provides relief - personal testimony of my friend but who now uses Go-Healthy due to recommendation of his chemist.

[Balance]

Not currently holding Clint - just an observation that the price is looking much cheaper. Though in my mind at least a lot hangs on the execution of the Australian / pet product sales.

PIL is one company I looked at closely when it was brought to my attention and am glad I made the decision not to invest.

Several reasons :

1. It is a backdoor listing which means mostly one thing - wealth transfer from investors to the promoters of the company imo.

2. Prepared to look however as product received excellent reviews from users (especially personal contacts, including a doctor friend who asked me to review the company as an investment) - but no real barriers to entry so big red flag.

3. Sure enough, Go-Healthy launched a siiimilar product at effectively half the price!

4. Founding Chairman and CEO resigned, and to me that is the death knell of investing in this company. Bet you they have been selling.

[Clints]

I dumped all my holdings yesterday - took a small bath but not too bad. Have transferred to Galaxy. Will still watch this one however.

[hardt]

They have chosen to create a new product to reduce arthritis in dogs...that's before they have attempted to sell their product to humans! (Outside of nz)...I'm no pharmacologist...I'm also no great expert in fundamentals...but I don't see how this is a long or short term investment?

I can't find any scientific studies to suggest it is anything but a placebo...unless their are facts out there I havnt yet uncovered?
The heart and sole of Arthrem is Artemisia annua extract - sweet wormwood

Artemisia annua has been proven to inhibit one of the Cytokines TNFa ( tumor necrosis factor alpha ) - TNFa signals the immune system to create inflammation where it think it is needed.
Inhibit TNFa and you break the production chain of inflammation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4298291/

50 ug/ml dosage of Artemisia annua (Aa extract) inhibits the production of TNFa by 100%

9242

Artemisia annua has also been proven to inhibit PGE2 ( Prostaglandin E2 )
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eji.200838969/full
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/arthritis/2012/239310/

9243

Prostaglandins are small potent inflammatory mediators that are generated by the release of arachidonic acid from the membrane phospholipids. Subsequently, cyclooxygenase and Prostaglandin synthase enzymes metabolize arachidonic acid to prostaglandins including PGE2, PGF2α, PGD2, PGI2 (prostacyclin), and TXA2(thromboxane), that play pivotal roles in the modulation of physiological systems, such as CNS, and the inflammatory and immune responses.

More studies are to come - "Preliminary investigations were also conducted on the ability of A. annua to modulate production of the cyclooxygenase (COX) inflammatory mark"
The main ingredient is clearly attributable to a reduction in inflammation... this could expand far beyond arthritis alone.

Would I invest currently? - watching it closely and giving it a year or two... I don't know their plans for marketing and label expansion for one of the only natural inhibitors of inflammation on the market.
It is a shame as this product in the hands of one of the bigger companies could be selling rather well.

[Kay]

That's not very logical, unless you think research and development should not be done in parallel. Canine arthritis is a potentially large market.



Where did you look? Not at all hard to find.

Our philosophy is simple — apply scientific testing to create effective, safe and trusted natural therapeutic products

https://arthrem.com/arthrem/scientific-evidence/


Local research funded by Promisa? - not scientific enough for myself but not to say it isn't accurate. I have read a mixed bag of reviews for the product. But the research focuses on the plant extract itself. Which I assume is owned by mother earth and can be grown commercially by anybody. Promisa's only real advantage is getting to market first - but just the NZ market.

Canine arthritis is a very small market compared to that of us mere humans. The time and money spent developing and releasing a canine product to market might have been better spent establishing the Arthrem brand beyond NZ's shores.

Its hard to see where they can take this now.

Maybe the canine option will give them a niche they can take further afield.

[Balance]

Local research funded by Promisa? - not scientific enough for myself but not to say it isn't accurate. I have read a mixed bag of reviews for the product. But the research focuses on the plant extract itself. Which I assume is owned by mother earth and can be grown commercially by anybody. Promisa's only real advantage is getting to market first - but just the NZ market.

Canine arthritis is a very small market compared to that of us mere humans. The time and money spent developing and releasing a canine product to market might have been better spent establishing the Arthrem brand beyond NZ's shores.

Its hard to see where they can take this now.

Maybe the canine option will give them a niche they can take further afield.

Without patent and IP protection - waste of time unless PIL can launch and obtain scale quickly.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PIL/announcements/308951

3rd Quarter 2017 sales = $516,336

Funny how the company does not disclose previous year's equivalent quarter sales (unlike previous releases boasting of huge %tage growth in sales) so a bit of digging shows:

3rd Quarter 2016 sales = $833,009

Sales has dropped 38% !!!!!!!

Deceitful, misleading and thoroughly dishonest sort of update to the market.

Game over.

[Clints]

Interesting that the SP is up today

[Leftfield]

Good work Balance. Not sure if I would be calling it as 'game over', tho' clearly much depending on their success (or otherwise) in NSW in the first half of 2018. Clearly a challenge ahead for the new CEO.

[artemis]

Hundreds of thousands of dogs in NZ - 28% of households have one or more - and 1 in 5 of those will develop osteoarthritis.

Vet bills and prescriptions are expensive. A natural remedy that works and is cheaper will be attractive to dog owners. Promisia has invested time and money into making their product palatable for dogs.

Early days yet but good outlook IMO.

[hardt]

Hundreds of thousands of dogs in NZ - 28% of households have one or more - and 1 in 5 of those will develop osteoarthritis.

Vet bills and prescriptions are expensive. A natural remedy that works and is cheaper will be attractive to dog owners. Promisia has invested time and money into making their product palatable for dogs.

Early days yet but good outlook IMO.

Ideally, you would need the drug peddled ( used the word lightly ) through veterinarians as opposed to over the counter.

We pay about $20 a month for my dogs arthritis medication, only needing to see a vet every 6 months for a check up.

And with Arthrem the problems are the price point, lack of marketing and that majority of the consumers of arthritis medication follow doctors suggestions/orders.

Even if it works ( like everything else on the market claims to ) $40 a bottle could be considered steep - where repeat prescription drugs are closer to $15.

[hardt]

http://www.redseal.co.nz/product/red-seal-pharmacy-strength-artemisia-annua-300mg/?gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd9snuoSmT58cZL1VxL3 YMJpCURSkIP4TsoyodJQFBEQxNvw1b5lffBoCOA0QAvD_BwE

Red seal has 30x300mg Artemisia annua capsules and grapeseed ( 1month supply ) for $25nzd

Exact replica of Arthrem dosage.

Not sure what competitive advantage PIL has, without IP protection the larger companies will be racing to the bottom and bump them out of the picture.

[Lola]

http://www.redseal.co.nz/product/red-seal-pharmacy-strength-artemisia-annua-300mg/?gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd9snuoSmT58cZL1VxL3 YMJpCURSkIP4TsoyodJQFBEQxNvw1b5lffBoCOA0QAvD_BwE

Red seal has 30x300mg Artemisia annua capsules and grapeseed ( 1month supply ) for $25nzd

Exact replica of Arthrem dosage.

Not sure what competitive advantage PIL has, without IP protection the larger companies will be racing to the bottom and bump them out of the picture.

Another copy cat knock off like Go H.
Or have they done proper clinical trials like
Arthrem?
Artemisia certainly has credibility but effectiveness depends on the quality of the input people say.

[Balance]

Another copy cat knock off like Go H.
Or have they done proper clinical trials like
Arthrem?
Artemisia certainly has credibility but effectiveness depends on the quality of the input people say.

Without patent or IP protection, chemists these days can analyze and reproduce any medications to the last chemical microns.

As long as Go H and Red Seal have got the Chemists and Pharmacists convinced that their products deliver the same effects at half the cost, only one way for PIL's sales and margins to go.

Sad but true.

[Lola]

Without patent or IP protection, chemists these days can analyze and reproduce any medications to the last chemical microns.

As long as Go H and Red Seal have got the Chemists and Pharmacists convinced that their products deliver the same effects at half the cost, only one way for PIL's sales and margins to go.

Sad but true.

Are you a chemist too?
No one fears competition if its a level playing field.
Well done on getting to number 207 or whatever in the share picks btw. That’s an improvement.
Arthrem is still the only natural product out there that’s had the confidence to put itself through proper clinical tests .
Time will tell. No doubt more artemisia based stuff will be on the shelves in time adding to consumers choice.

[Balance]

Are you a chemist too?
No one fears competition if its a level playing field.
Well done on getting to number 207 or whatever in the share picks btw. That’s an improvement.
Arthrem is still the only natural product out there that’s had the confidence to put itself through proper clinical tests .
Time will tell. No doubt more artemisia based stuff will be on the shelves in time adding to consumers choice.

By way of background, I was asked to have a close look at PIL when one of my friends started using Arthrem and said it was doing wonders for him.

I backed off investing after analyzing the company when I referred the medication to another friend who is in the pharmaceutical industry for his view. First point he made is that there is no patent or IP protection and the ingredients are easily obtainable. Second point he made is that any medication requires massive spending on promotion and advertising to obtain scale - why the industry is dominated by the big boys.

I completely wrote off the stock as one to invest in when the Chairman and CEO both resigned over the last 2 years even while the company reported spectacular tripe and double digit growth in sales. It is very very telling how little future they see in this company to leave the company just when the sales are coming through. Smells too much to me like a good time to sell down their shareholdings without scrutiny imo.

So relax, Lola before you need to swallow a few dozen Arthrem to calm your nerves down :D

PS. You may be interested to note that the stocks selected under my name (kindly by PT) are precisely the stocks I tell posters here to avoid like HIV. And they are performing exactly as they should!

[bulyak]

Any news on Promisia? They have gone very quiet. Had big hopes for them in 2017. Wonder how the K9 and Aussie launch have gone?

[artemis]

Any news on Promisia? They have gone very quiet. Had big hopes for them in 2017. Wonder how the K9 and Aussie launch have gone?

Probably too early for much news, as only a very few weeks since both launched.

One stat about Arthrem. Back in July I checked the monthly site visit ranking for the Aust Arthrem site on URLMETRICS as a bit of a baseline. (I know, sad life!) Then the site was ranked at #1,119,463. It is now ranked at #908,035.

Not exactly going viral, but still a decent rise up the ranks. May mean nothing much in terms of sales.

[bulyak]

Yes. Very interesting observation.

Looks like the company lost its way in the 2nd and 3rd quarter in terms of sales. But surely the K9 product and the launch into Australia should pick up the slack.

Plus they have a new CEO with a couple degrees.

What is the URL of the Australian site. I remember them saying that they had to be careful what they said in NZ, and I'm guessing this will apply in Australia as well, even as a 2nd tier natural medicine.

[artemis]

bulyak, this is the URL.

au.urlm.com/www.arthrem.com.au

[bulyak]

Redirected to arthrem.co.nz

[artemis]

Redirected to arthrem.co.nz

The website is linked but the stats are for visits to the .com.au site.

[Leftfield]

Over the weekend I saw PIL's new TV commercial for Artevite, a dietary supplement for dogs (http://www.artevite.co.nz)

Quite impressive..... there may be life in this old dog yet!?

[s4draynz]

I see they are advertising for 3 sales reps and a Marketing coordinator

https://www.seek.co.nz/job/35242155?
https://www.seek.co.nz/job/35242402?

[airedale]

Over the weekend I saw PIL's new TV commercial for Artevite, a dietary supplement for dogs (http://www.artevite.co.nz)

Quite impressive..... there may be life in this old dog yet!?
I remember when green lipped mussel tablets were the next big thing for arthritic dogs. I wonder if they are still favoured by dog owners.

[s4draynz]

Share price getting a bit hammered today... Must be due fore a sales update soon.

[bulyak]

Interesting announcement today. My brother took about a dozen nurofen for a hangover, thinking the more he took the better it would work. And he too also suffered a short case of Jaundice. Some silly bugger probably thought the more he took the quicker it would work. Whats more interesting is the share trading that took place before the announcement. Obviously price sensitive info leaks through this company like a sieve.

[Kay]

Not really price sensitive info leaking through the company. Just a response to public information

[Balance]

Not really price sensitive info leaking through the company. Just a response to public information

Disgraceful conduct by the company - should be responded to and released to the market as soon as it became aware.

[Kay]

Disgraceful conduct by the company - should be responded to and released to the market as soon as it became aware.

And when did it become aware?

End of last week?... I would give them a day or so to react... Not exactly a high proportion of people having a reaction. Compared to other medicines seems very minor.

Not sure creating mass panic over 14 reactions would be great conduct

[Balance]

And when did it become aware?

End of last week?... I would give them a day or so to react... Not exactly a high proportion of people having a reaction. Compared to other medicines seems very minor.

Not sure creating mass panic over 14 reactions would be great conduct

Disclosure to the market is not an option - there is a duty to disclose and it is a necessary part of keeping everyone informed.

Share price action today clearly showed that some knew, and others did not.

NZX and FMA have no choice but to investigate.

[Lola]

Disclosure to the market is not an option - there is a duty to disclose and it is a necessary part of keeping everyone informed.

Share price action today clearly showed that some knew, and others did not.

NZX and FMA have no choice but to investigate.

Dear mr Unbalanced

Help, I have just eaten some strawberries and I have broken out in a huge rash covering my family jewels. Shall I call the FMA to make a visit immediately to the indians down on SH 3 ?

Please get a grip.

[Baa_Baa]

Not sure creating mass panic over 14 reactions would be great conduct

Announcing to the NZX wouldn't create mass panic amongst except maybe amongst nervous shareholders, but the fact that the mainstream media picked up on it should be enough that PIL announce their views to the market (at least), preferably before the media, but that's too late now. Whether they will or not remains to be seen.

[bulyak]

Yes. Kind of agree. But the NZX labelled it as price sensitive. Just did a little investigative work and it appeared on the medsafe website well over 4 days ago. http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/EWS/2018/Arthrem.asp So they've known. But you are also right. Less then .007%. Lola's strawberrys upset my stomach as well.

[Balance]

Dear mr Unbalanced

Help, I have just eaten some strawberries and I have broken out in a huge rash covering my family jewels. Shall I call the FMA to make a visit immediately to the indians down on SH 3 ?

Please get a grip.

https://www.nzx.com/files/static/cms-documents/Final%20Continuous%20Disclosure%20Guidance%20Note% 2019%20December%202014%20(1).pdf

Share price move today showed the information is material.

Lola - you are the latest to try and take me on - and you are most welcome. Start by reviewing those who took me on in NZOG, Pike River, Snakk, PEB, Plus SMS etc etc.

Try harder. :D

[Balance]

Please get a grip.

Think you should get hold of the media and tell them to get a grip?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11997751

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/arthrem-poses-risk-liver-medsafe

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/101584806/popular-arthrem-medicine-linked-with-potential-harm-to-liver

"Popular Arthrem medicine linked with potential harm to liver"

"Arthrem poses risk to liver - Medsafe"

"Warnings over dietary supplement Arthrem over liver harm"

[s4draynz]

its gonn aget SMASHED on the match.. down 77% lol

[blackcap]

its gonn aget SMASHED on the match.. down 77% lol

That is crazy, 0.4 offered!!

[Balance]

Dear mr Unbalanced

Help, I have just eaten some strawberries and I have broken out in a huge rash covering my family jewels. Shall I call the FMA to make a visit immediately to the indians down on SH 3 ?

Please get a grip.

Coming to grips yet, Lola as to why the market is so concerned?

There are at least 5 reasons why PIL is now in big big trouble.

[s4draynz]

https://arthrem.co.nz/news/item/balance-needed-in-news-reporting-of-medsafe-advisory-about-arthrem

[Yoda]

Well rightly or wrongly i bought at .005 and currently up 100 %. That will pay for my holiday next week. 😎

[Lola]

Coming to grips yet, Lola as to why the market is so concerned?

There are at least 5 reasons why PIL is now in big big trouble.

I am all ears .

By the way why on earth couldnt you have identified CBL before you did ,and then it was with the benefit of hindsight?

[Balance]

I am all ears .

By the way why on earth couldnt you have identified CBL before you did ,and then it was with the benefit of hindsight?

Need you to confirm you have got your grip first. :D

[jimbo]

This was totally within the realms of possibility for a poorly characterised "complementary medicine" product and should give real cause for concern if they claim that risk is linked to dosage.

Reason: they don't know what is in their product. It's not a drug comprised of one characterised compound, but a crude extract of literally thousands of different compounds from a plant that makes a bewildering array of specialised metabolites. Why does this matter? Changes in growing conditions due to environmental factors or farmer actions may considerably alter the composition of chemicals in each batch of product, and Promisia has no meaningful way of monitoring this. In reality, the dosage of active ingredients probably changes with every batch, and the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit. Please don't bring up the published studies - a critical eye can see that they are barely passable and the authors had to work to get the statistics in line.

[peat]

the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit

Tanzania is where they mention their crop is growing in the 2017 interim chairmans address

[Yoda]

This was totally within the realms of possibility for a poorly characterised "complementary medicine" product and should give real cause for concern if they claim that risk is linked to dosage.

Reason: they don't know what is in their product. It's not a drug comprised of one characterised compound, but a crude extract of literally thousands of different compounds from a plant that makes a bewildering array of specialised metabolites. Why does this matter? Changes in growing conditions due to environmental factors or farmer actions may considerably alter the composition of chemicals in each batch of product, and Promisia has no meaningful way of monitoring this. In reality, the dosage of active ingredients probably changes with every batch, and the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit. Please don't bring up the published studies - a critical eye can see that they are barely passable and the authors had to work to get the statistics in line.


I would say all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed.....

and where did you get the grown in India from please. Thats interesting .

[jimbo]

I would say all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed.....

and where did you get the grown in India from please. Thats interesting .

Totally agree that all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed - that's partly how a dose is defined ;) the difference between this product and a therapeutic drug is that a drug manufacturer is required to know exactly what is in their product and how much of it there is, so that a dose can be defined. Did you follow my point about why this is a problem for Arthrem?

I'm happy to take your word that the company gets their particular plants from a supplier in Tanzania and I don't dispute it. My point was that they likely have very little insight or power when it comes to growing conditions and quality control, as this crop is almost exclusively grown in developing nations far from NZ. Regarding India in particular: a massive expansion of Artemisia annua cultivation in India was partly responsible for crashing the price of artemisinin a couple of years ago (artemisinin = the approved antimalarial *pharmaceutical drug* that is *purified* from Artemisia annua extracts)

[Yoda]

Cheers for that clarification . Im still happy to have made $4 k today. And see how it goes tomorrow . This will not be a long term investment .....

[Balance]

Totally agree that all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed - that's partly how a dose is defined ;) the difference between this product and a therapeutic drug is that a drug manufacturer is required to know exactly what is in their product and how much of it there is, so that a dose can be defined. Did you follow my point about why this is a problem for Arthrem?

I'm happy to take your word that the company gets their particular plants from a supplier in Tanzania and I don't dispute it. My point was that they likely have very little insight or power when it comes to growing conditions and quality control, as this crop is almost exclusively grown in developing nations far from NZ. Regarding India in particular: a massive expansion of Artemisia annua cultivation in India was partly responsible for crashing the price of artemisinin a couple of years ago (artemisinin = the approved antimalarial *pharmaceutical drug* that is *purified* from Artemisia annua extracts)


https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/news/warnings-herbal-supplement-arthrem-harmful-liver

Biggest problem for PIL now is the potential liability it has overseas - could run into many millions of dollars if they get sued overseas.

They do not take prisoners overseas - unlike NZ.

[s4draynz]

Paracetamol can also cause Liver Toxicity....

[haewai]

Late in the day announcement yesterday: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/314979

[hardt]

PIL have $300k left in the tank... placement will be just around the corner no doubt.

Only thing nice to see in that report was the gross margin improving to 72.5%.

[Lola]

PIL have $300k left in the tank... placement will be just around the corner no doubt.

Only thing nice to see in that report was the gross margin improving to 72.5%.

Where’d you get that 300k number from?
They banked 900plus from a placement in January

[Hectorplains]

Where’d you get that 300k number from?
They banked 900plus from a placement in January

See the Interim Financial Statements: http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PIL/314979/275583.pdf

p5. Cash at end of period = $324 000

[hardt]

Where’d you get that 300k number from?
They banked 900plus from a placement in January

Sorry, I do see the below in the notes which occurred after the HY...

During January 2018, the Group completed private placements of 47,750,000 shares to wholesale and eligible investors at an issue price of $0.02 per share and raised the sum of $955,000.

Cash burn continues nonetheless, what are they going to do to put out the fire?

[Yoda]

Any idea how long that cash will last ?

[s4draynz]

Any idea how long that cash will last ?

not long enough ! off to market for another 600k !

[Yoda]

Looks like Medsafe might have delt a killer blow with sales down so drasticaly .
i wonder if they can return from this .?
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/317584

they say April sales are double March, but March was pretty awful.

[peat]

I asked at a pharmacy on main st here in the 'nui and they said the sale of Arthrem is nearly back to what it was before the medsafe scare.

[hardt]

The severe cash burn was there before any damage was done by Medsafe... this one is going to be stuck in one of those never ending snowballs of cash raises.

NZ sales alone are never going to cover PIL's current expenses and the establishment costs extending Arthrem any further overseas ( without a licensing agreement ) will require capital they do not have.

A high margin product like Arthrem could easily be absorbed by an established player with existing facilities to return a solid profit.

[bulyak]

Great news to hear things are returning to BAU post Medsafe notice. Not sure I agree with severe cash burn pre Medsafe. They have shown positive cashflow in the past when quarterly sales were at a respectable level. https://www.nzx.com/announcements/296304

[hardt]

Great news to hear things are returning to BAU post Medsafe notice. Not sure I agree with severe cash burn pre Medsafe. They have shown positive cashflow in the past when quarterly sales were at a respectable level. https://www.nzx.com/announcements/296304

4Q16 was the only period of profitability in 3 years for PIL... let's not pretend like Medsafe are the reason they aren't profitable.

1H16 = -366k
FY16 = -459k
1H17 = -350k
FY17 = -876k

Staff and employment costs have risen to 388k from 180k for what reason exactly?

[artemis]

A few notes from the Annual Shareholder meeting today:

- After the Medsafe Alert sales of Arthem dropped to 10% of previous level. As a promotion had recently finished, pharmacies were stocked up while sales were dropping.

- Key competitive products have been withdrawn following the Medsafe Alert, so a small silver lining for PIL.

- New and quite intensive strategy involving pharmacists seems to be working, sales
trending up. Small inhouse marketing group formed and are contacting all pharmacies by phone monthly, and programme of visits rolling out. The latter will expand as funds allow. A short 4 question survey for pharmacies to use with enquirers has been rolled out (4 x yes = OK). Same approach will be rolled out in Australia.

- Not much on Artevite. Early days. Safe testing done by Massey Uni, no clinical trials yet (cost). Successful clinical trials should lead to vets prescribing.

- Convertible notes issue coming, minimum $10,000. Associates of one of the directors has committed to a large 6 figure take up, a sign of confidence.

- Quite a bit of talk and discussion about Medsafe - very unresponsive to info requests and queries, and so coming across as arrogant.

ETA Marketing function has been brought inhouse which may be some or most of the reason for staff costs rising.

[s4draynz]

must be due for a quarterly update soon...

[s4draynz]

and there it is.... me thinks they need to find some cash - STAT

[s4draynz]

Promisia just cant get a break - another Med safe update !

[Leftfield]

Promisia just cant get a break - another Med safe update !

Crikey, not looking good. Could This (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/327473) be the death knell for PIL? It is certainly not going to help their CR/consolidation.

(Disc - did hold, but no longer. Watching with interest.)

[s4draynz]

and after weeks of nothing, someone hit the ask for 950K shares.. i see Artevite have a 2 for 1 deal starting tomorrow.

[s4draynz]

So, how can Helius Theraputics do a marketing campaign for cannabis as a medicine, yet Promisia are under scrutiny for 'breaching the medicines act" ? https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/12/cannabis-is-medicine-helius-theraputics-launches-rebranding-campaign.html?

[Lola]

So, how can Helius Theraputics do a marketing campaign for cannabis as a medicine, yet Promisia are under scrutiny for 'breaching the medicines act" ? https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/12/cannabis-is-medicine-helius-theraputics-launches-rebranding-campaign.html?

Yes I agree....and only last week Medsafe boss Mr Chris James said in response to his outfit loosing a court battle against a pharmacy in Wellington selling a drink, " we are always keen to encourage innovation". What a joke that place is. Dysfunctional and confused.

[s4draynz]

and there you have it..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109435600/medsafe-investigating-claims-on-cannabis-billboard

[Yoda]

Not quite dead yet. Just been thrown a life line... A bit of cpr .... SP UP 50%


PIL
23/01/2019 08:30
GENERAL
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0830 HRS Promisia Integrative Limited

GENERAL: PIL: Confirmation of additional investment by major shareholder

22 January 2019

Confirmation of additional investment by major shareholder
The Directors of Promisia Integrative Limited (NZX:PIL) are pleased to advise
that the company's major shareholder, Brankin Trust, has advised that it
wishes to exercise its right to subscribe for an additional 250,000,000
shares at a price of $0.001 per share. The ability to subscribe for this
additional 250 million shares was part of the underwriting agreement entered
into between PIL and Brankin Trust for the rights issue that closed on 24
December 2018 and was approved by shareholders at a special meeting held on 4
December 2018. The 250 million shares represent shortfall shares not taken
up by eligible shareholders in the recent rights issue.
An Allotment Notice will be lodged when funds have been received and the new
shares have been issued.
This transaction will provide an additional $250,000 of working capital for
PIL and will increase the shareholding of Brankin Trust to 51.3% of the PIL
issued capital. On behalf of all shareholders the Directors thank Brankin
Trust for its support of the company.
For further information contact
Rene de Wit
Chief Executive
021 571000 (tel:021 571000)
End CA:00329709 (tel:00329709) For:PIL Type:GENERAL Time:2019-01-23 08:30:36

[Blue Horseshoe]

How is it possible that someone is able to place a sell order worth $3.00 and drop the share price 50%. If I tried that I would be getting a call from ASB Securities, who was this broker.

[blackcap]

How is it possible that someone is able to place a sell order worth $3.00 and drop the share price 50%. If I tried that I would be getting a call from ASB Securities, who was this broker.

Why would you not be able to liquidate a position at the best possible price available? The quotes are very tight, as tight as they can get on this stock at this price. There is no better possibility than .1 before hitting the sell side.
It might be anything from an estate selling out or just someone getting rid of crumbs left over from a long ago purchase.
I see no problem with that trade whatsoever.

[Lola]

why would you not be able to liquidate a position at the best possible price available? The quotes are very tight, as tight as they can get on this stock at this price. There is no better possibility than .1 before hitting the sell side.
It might be anything from an estate selling out or just someone getting rid of crumbs left over from a long ago purchase.
I see no problem with that trade whatsoever.

bizarre.
Bro would be 75 bucks plus the nzx trade fee would leave vendor in the negative . Why would you bother? Just give the shares to medsafe. Or maybe they were the seller.

[s4draynz]

The question is for me... where to from here ? can a stock recover from .001 ? anyone who gets filled at .001 and sells at .002 makes 100% LOL

[Miway]

The question is for me... where to from here ? can a stock recover from .001 ? anyone who gets filled at .001 and sells at .002 makes 100% LOL
First you would have to find a buyer at .002 ...highly unlikely

[GTM 3442]

The question is for me... where to from here ? can a stock recover from .001 ? anyone who gets filled at .001 and sells at .002 makes 100% LOL

Well having bought PIL (possibly as SVY before the change of name) at $0.001 and having sold at $0.045, the answer is definitely a yes, a stock can recover from $0.001.

The real question is more to do with the length of the recovery. . .

[Balance]

Well having bought PIL (possibly as SVY before the change of name) at $0.001 and having sold at $0.045, the answer is definitely a yes, a stock can recover from $0.001.

The real question is more to do with the length of the recovery. . .

For 100% gain, you can afford to wait for 10 years in today's low interest rate environment.

Being a backdoor job, you could become unstuck with the 100% gain however if the next reincarnation involves a 100:1 share consolidation before the Greek job is done.

[peat]

I genuinely believe the company has a good product. I've been told such good things.
However having a good product isn't enough to make a company succeed.
They've had such a rough deal with the authorities though it is very hard to see them coming back.
GLTAWH.

[Balance]

I genuinely believe the company has a good product. I've been told such good things.
However having a good product isn't enough to make a company succeed.
They've had such a rough deal with the authorities though it is very hard to see them coming back.
GLTAWH.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/330404

Prosecution by Ministry of Health on 9 counts.

Game over unfortunately, me thinks.

[peat]

such a rough deal

yeh dont disagree that it finito now.

10305

too many coins required to continue https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj4pPWbs7LgAhVEdCsKHb5NAREQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Fgame-over-insert-coins-gif-12235828&psig=AOvVaw3VwLQ8zpFtYaDAbsI3G2lq&ust=1549930488455742

[artemis]

Even if PIL win, they have to find legal fees from somewhere as will not be fully reimbursed. Though if they do win, there could be damages.

Australia is still a large and local market with approvals, as is the canine sector worldwide.

According to PIL correct processes have been followed. Is the Ministry of Health attempting to set some sort of precedent involving interpretation of the regulations?

[blackcap]

Scary thing is even at .1 of a cent it is still capitalised at $1.9m. Methinks a shell that is worthless should be worth about 500k at best.

I think .1 if you can get it is good value.

[s4draynz]

so, does this also mean that Helius are up for a court date with the MoH ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/110494284/cannabis-company-helius-therapeutics-removes-billboards-after-complaints

[Balance]

Scary thing is even at .1 of a cent it is still capitalised at $1.9m. Methinks a shell that is worthless should be worth about 500k at best.

I think .1 if you can get it is good value.

0.1c is as low a value as NZX listing rules allow.

Next step is 0c - which is bankruptcy.

[winner69]

0.1c is as low a value as NZX listing rules allow.

Next step is 0c - which is bankruptcy.

PIL makes SEA look good xtraordinary brilliant

[s4draynz]

OMG.. do we have some movement...

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115349626/former-promisia-chairman-admits-insider-trading-breaches

Insider trading by ex-Chairman.

Typical of a back-door listed vehicle - No integrity.

[CROESUS U.T.]

Insider trading by ex-Chairman...No integrity.
Also heavily involved in this fiasco https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/arbor-directors-confront-management-packed-special-meeting/

[Apathy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115349626/former-promisia-chairman-admits-insider-trading-breaches

Insider trading by ex-Chairman.

Typical of a back-door listed vehicle - No integrity.

You mean the NZX? They need to be fined as well..........

[Balance]

Dear mr Unbalanced

Help, I have just eaten some strawberries and I have broken out in a huge rash covering my family jewels. Shall I call the FMA to make a visit immediately to the indians down on SH 3 ?

Please get a grip.

Should have listened to yours truly huh, Lola dear trusting soul?

Write a sticky note and attach to your fridge - "Backdoors are not natural! Best to avoid!"

[Lola]

Should have listened to yours truly huh, Lola dear trusting soul?

Write a sticky note and attach to your fridge - "Backdoors are not natural! Best to avoid!"

Up to your old tricks again, playing the man and not the ball. This is about the EX Chairman , not the company.

[Balance]

Up to your old tricks again, playing the man and not the ball. This is about the EX Chairman , not the company.

Pattern of behavior, dear Lola.

Chairman left, the CEO left abruptly.

Then, down playing the impact of the investigation into Arthrem to the extent of not even disclosing to the market (fact) until it blew up in the media.

[Lola]

Pattern of behavior, dear Lola.

Chairman left, the CEO left abruptly.

Then, down playing the impact of the investigation into Arthrem to the extent of not even disclosing to the market (fact) until it blew up in the media.

Cant believe how you missed not picking this one in your 2019 selections old boy. Not that it would have made much difference to your 199th placing. Please dont call me Dear. Time will tell I guess on the Arthrem saga but judging from the comapny's comments on the subject there could be more to come, so dont overlook them for your 2020 deliberations.

[Balance]

Becoming another backdoor again - Oh dear!

[artemis]

Becoming another backdoor again - Oh dear!

Looks like it, with today's announcement entry into the retirement sector.

[beetills]

What do investors think of this retirement entry.
Is it worth a punt.

[artemis]

What do investors think of this retirement entry.
Is it worth a punt.

It's a risk, but the retirement sector has done well over the past few years. Pity about Medsafe and Arthrem - not that long ago that a Chinese doctor won the Nobel Prize for work relating to the same product for malaria. Which is where Arthrem started out.

[Lola]

It's a risk, but the retirement sector has done well over the past few years. Pity about Medsafe and Arthrem - not that long ago that a Chinese doctor won the Nobel Prize for work relating to the same product for malaria. Which is where Arthrem started out.

And none other than the President of Madagascar is making a swig of Artemisia compulsory for all local school children.
Swoon.

[mudd]

When can we expect PIL to resume trading?

[Sideshow Bob]

From Business Desk:

BRIAN GAYNOR: Promisia– offering another potential bonanza for investors? (https://businessdesk.us20.list-manage.com/track/click?u=786ac0b2dc4f2240875208882&id=a6b132cb79&e=3b6f9185d3)Tomorrow, Promisia Integrative shareholders will be asked toapprove the back-door listing of three aged care facilities, two in Feildingand one in Dannevirke, and the long-term lease of a Christchurch property for$31.4 million.
This is yet another dramatic twist in the company’s colourfulhistory which has included former Deputy Prime Minister Brian Talboys, currentNational Party MP Judith Collins, Fay Richwhite, Jihong Lu, a proposed deal withRichard Yan and Richina Pacific, and insider trading activities by a recentchairman.
Read the full story at BusinessDesk — subscribe now (https://businessdesk.us20.list-manage.com/track/click?u=786ac0b2dc4f2240875208882&id=87d2891025&e=3b6f9185d3)
Read on » (https://businessdesk.us20.list-manage.com/track/click?u=786ac0b2dc4f2240875208882&id=ab1d34b1c3&e=3b6f9185d3)

[kiora]

"Richard Yan and Richina Pacific"
No thanks.Wouldn't bother reading any further

[Snow Leopard]

Completion of Acquisition (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/362340) "and now operates in the New Zealand aged care sector"

So as respectable as ARV, OCA, RYM & SUM.

Should soak up all that MET cash that everybody has been going on about easily. :t_up:

Disc: don't hold

[FTG]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/365051

Looks like a positive step. An interesting comment from CDHB re strong demand for beds.

Release mentions option to buy this property for $11m. I wonder how long ago that price agreement was struck...can't find much intel on this though? If struck a while ago potentially will have appreciated quite nicely over the last we while with the current property boom.

Penny dreadful stock at 0.2/0.3 cents though - gosh!

[Snow Leopard]

Accounts to 30-Oct-2020 (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PIL/365608/338109.pdf) suggest a NTA of 0.0635 cents per share, so even at 0.1c they appear to be no bargain.

They really need to do a minimum 1000 to 1 consolidation :ohmy:

[FTG]

Accounts to 30-Oct-2020 (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PIL/365608/338109.pdf) suggest a NTA of 0.0635 cents per share, so even at 0.1c they appear to be no bargain.

They really need to do a minimum 1000 to 1 consolidation :ohmy:

Agree SL. A consolidation would certainly help get things out of the penny dreadful category. Premium to NTA is not uncharacteristic for this this sector however.

In this case, with what appears to be quite a large % of the business property assets being either developed or becoming occupied (Ch-Ch site), one would think all things being equal there should be a nice increase to NTA at some point?

[DDog]

MSL pick for 2021

Any thoughts?

[whatsup]

MSL pick for 2021

Any thoughts?

$680 K M C , hmmmmm 1

[FTG]

MSL pick for 2021

Any thoughts?

Interesting. MSL seem to perform quite well each year in the comp (normally in top quartile of the various brokers).
Perhaps a cheeky pick, as momentarily touched $0.001 last week prior to broker picks published, and only one way the price can go from here?

Legacy issues of this shelf company may initially hold things back (they probably should rebrand!), but it does appear the underlying business has now materially changed. IF the management team can execute a solid strategic plan, then a 2-4 bagger over the next 1-2 years isn't inconceivable IMO.

[Baa_Baa]

Interesting. MSL seem to perform quite well each year in the comp (normally in top quartile of the various brokers).
Perhaps a cheeky pick, as momentarily touched $0.001 last week prior to broker picks published, and only one way the price can go from here?

Legacy issues of this shelf company may initially hold things back (they probably should rebrand!), but it does appear the underlying business has now materially changed. IF the management team can execute a solid strategic plan, then a 2-4 bagger over the next 1-2 years isn't inconceivable IMO.

Would be more fun and a lot quicker to go red or black on the roulette table. This isn’t ‘investing’ or ‘trading’, just a gamble pure and simple but why wait two years when the roulette takes a few minutes to double bag or bust?

[FTG]

ALL investing & trading is a gamble if you don't diligently DYOR

Some folk won't go anywhere near a roulette table as it isn't their idea of fun. Different strokes for different folks Baa Baa. :-)

[Lola]

Would be more fun and a lot quicker to go red or black on the roulette table. This isn’t ‘investing’ or ‘trading’, just a gamble pure and simple but why wait two years when the roulette takes a few minutes to double bag or bust?

This fine bit of analysis must have catalysed at least one serious punter to move today. Healthy turnover of 30 million shares.

[FTG]

This fine bit of analysis must have catalysed at least one serious punter to move today. Healthy turnover of 30 million shares.

LOL! Plus 60 million the previous day.

Looking at the size of some of the trades that have crossed, it appears that they aren't just "Sharesies Virgins" either. Sophisticated "gamblers"/investors perhaps?

Any thoughts of being able to pick up shares at 0.001 seem to have faded. IMO, with volumes building it's just a matter of time before we could see this trading at 0.003 more consistently (a nice 50% lift from here).

[Jantar]

I decided to have a wee dabble and bought 1 million shares today. Tis is the only company I own a million shares in, and had to reformat my spreadsheet to cope with such a large holding. I would agree with a consolidation.

[FTG]

I decided to have a wee dabble and bought 1 million shares today. Tis is the only company I own a million shares in, and had to reformat my spreadsheet to cope with such a large holding. I would agree with a consolidation.

Well done. I trust the wee dabble works well for you!

I see a seller has just put on offer at least 50 Million, creating a rather big overhang of stock on offer at 0.02. That now makes it a total of 3 larger offers at 0.02. Most likely a significant holder(s) who participated in recent 0.01 raise, as historically not many shares have been purchased on market at that price.

Perhaps my 0.03 prediction (Wish!) won't happen for a while after all? Might have to wait for these big player(s) to be taken out.

[Dlownz]

Sharesies doesn't offer this share on their list of company's.

[The Punter]

I to like a punt, so I spent some lazy dollars to see what might happen. Just a fraction of the success that other Retirement Villages have achieved should see this company rockit to 2 or even 3cent a share. The test would then be do I sell for a quick buck , or hold ? This could be fun.