TSLA - Tesla Motors

[bmrm]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Tesla? I'm considering using part of my GNE refund to take a punt. With the NASDAQ being wobbly they're coming down from a high, and I think there is a phenomenal upside to this company.

These are just some of my thoughts in no particular order. I'm still working on it and haven't come to a decision either way, just interested if anyone else has thoughts on this?

1) The assumption that "electric cars + Elon Musk = tech" seems outdated. Yes they're developing new technology, but so are GM & Ford all the time. Tesla is about as related to Pets.com as Boeing is to King Bladud.

2) Their direct distribution model means that if/when they hit the mainstream (and they deal with the dealer-cartels in the states) they will be able to command a higher markup than other automakers who sell through agents.

3) Their gigafactory, when built, will supply them with cheap, superior batteries as well as being a diversified source of income.

4) China etc.

[Entrep]

Ignore my comments - wrong chart

[winner69]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Tesla? I'm considering using part of my GNE refund to take a punt. With the NASDAQ being wobbly they're coming down from a high, and I think there is a phenomenal upside to this company.

These are just some of my thoughts in no particular order. I'm still working on it and haven't come to a decision either way, just interested if anyone else has thoughts on this?

1) The assumption that "electric cars + Elon Musk = tech" seems outdated. Yes they're developing new technology, but so are GM & Ford all the time. Tesla is about as related to Pets.com as Boeing is to King Bladud.

2) Their direct distribution model means that if/when they hit the mainstream (and they deal with the dealer-cartels in the states) they will be able to command a higher markup than other automakers who sell through agents.

3) Their gigafactory, when built, will supply them with cheap, superior batteries as well as being a diversified source of income.

4) China etc.

Did you take a punt?

Share price was $200 back then - now $237 so up 18% in 2 years

But what of the future - wow. As Mr Musk tweeted a while ago

@elonmusk: Now 232k orders

Thats a lot of doshto come in coming years

[Sideshow Bob]

232k is $9b (b for Billion) in sales. :eek2:

To the end of 2015 they'd only sold 107k cars!

[janner]

The young and the restless have taken to them in Hong Kong..

Everywhere..

Bodes well for sales to the young and restless in China ..

[winner69]

Anybody here got TSLA shares

Eion says if you can’t stand volatility and don’t understand cash burn you shouldn’t be in TSLA shares

Told analysts they ask boring bonehead questions and are boring in an analyst teleconference ...and then hung up

[Jay]

Investors are only going to stump up cash for so long, then he will really find out what cash burn means.

If/when they get their Model 3 in good numbers it may stop or alternately major manufacturers will beat him to it.
He has too many balls in the air imho.
Perhaps he should lend/merge/sell his technology for the cars to the experts and concentrate on some of his other areas, such as battery technology for solar power.

One thing I think he has done , that he has speeded up the major manufactures in looking at/producing an electric vehicle /hybrid a lot sooner that they may otherwise done.

Discl: None, nil,nada, zip

[Beagle]

Really bizarre call the other day. I think Musk's performance of late is all the proof you ever need that EVERYONE needs checks and balances.
The major manufacturers who are highly experienced at mass production and some of them with very good quality control are all working hard to release competing vehicles in the near future.
I would not be one to give Musk (an interest free unsecured loan on one of his cars, otherwise known as a deposit) with his arrogant and irrational performance of late.
I think the odds on the company being around to honor the full tenure of an eight year warranty are lower than 50 / 50.
I think their current Tesla S is a pretty good car but priced above where it really should be so when the price comes down to a more realistic level, maybe.
Two questions resonate with me regarding Tesla cars.
1. Why be an early adopter and give them an unsecured interest free deposit on a very expensive car when you might not ever see it delivered ?
2. What's a second hand Tesla worth if they go out of business ?
In terms of their shares...I cannot see anything to recommend them.

[JBmurc]

If I was going short a company ie predicting its SP would fall over the short term - Tesla #1

[winner69]

That Musk not a good character is he

Heard deposit refunds are outpacing new orders at the moment

Considering the huge pile of debt Tesla has I reckon shareholders not in a very good position if/when Tesla goes bust

[stevo1]

Musk has lost the first off the mark advantage ,there are lots of competitors in or coming to the EV space.some of these are very experienced car makers .The Chinese manufacturers are really gearing up with some great vehicles https://www.nio.io/

[Vagabond47]

Maybe they will survive after all..

https://www.thestreet.com/opinion/tesla-jumps-after-providing-upbeat-profit-and-margin-guidance-8-key-takeaways-14670965

Sounds like somebody pulled Musk aside and pointed out that being rude to analysts and refusing to answer their questions is not a great thing to do if you need to raise capital in future.

[peat]

a profitable quarter!

[Joshuatree]

Its easy to put a link in peat.
Tesla turns a profit in Q3 despite Musk (https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/24/tesla-turns-a-profit-in-q3-despite-musk/?yptr=yahoo)

[alistar_mid]

I bought a bunch for long term hold today because

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMDkPb09oZs

[whatsup]

Been a holder for 2 years and finally made my entry price again and then some US$420 + with massive short covering since the last Qr ann of increasing sales and with this weeks report from China ( mega factory ) the worst appears behind Tesla and serious orders now being expected, is now the 3rd biggest auto company in the world and who knows where it could finish, Im picking that it has the brightest future of any auto company in the world atm !

[Beagle]

My 2 cents. They are making hay while the sun shines and that's fine. Over the next couple of years we are going to see a wide range of new EV models coming on stream from Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW among many others and people will have the opportunity to buy EV's with high quality German assembly standards.

I don't know about others but I'd rather own an EV from a well recognised European manufacturer with first class assembly and fit out standards. When customers have far more choice with their EV purchase it will be interesting to see how Tesla sales holds up. From an investment case perspective the shares are priced like they're going to be the dominant EV manufacturer and I don't think that's going to be the case in the future, but like all things about the future, time will tell.

[whatsup]

The weese out is that the TSLA technology is the worlds best as the European motor makers have not yet nailed the necessary tech, their battery is heavier and drives fewer Km or miles than TSLA, last nights 3%( $444 ) S P jump is another endorsement for the company.

IMHO TSLA could easily be a US $600 dollar stock which for every US $1 increase equals N Z $1.55 approx. and of course the opposite is also true.

[Beagle]

BMW have their Gen 5 electric motors ready for the new BMW I4. 390 kw's and BMW build quality...Hmmmm

[SBQ]

My 2 cents. They are making hay while the sun shines and that's fine. Over the next couple of years we are going to see a wide range of new EV models coming on stream from Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW among many others and people will have the opportunity to buy EV's with high quality German assembly standards.

I don't know about others but I'd rather own an EV from a well recognised European manufacturer with first class assembly and fit out standards. When customers have far more choice with their EV purchase it will be interesting to see how Tesla sales holds up. From an investment case perspective the shares are priced like they're going to be the dominant EV manufacturer and I don't think that's going to be the case in the future, but like all things about the future, time will tell.


Beagle, you've been citing European quality far too many times and the market is saying, European quality is irrelevant when it comes to buying EVs. Consider how much a flop Mercedez is having with their "deemed Tesla killer" only 55 EQCs sold.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killer-mercedes-benz-eqc-flops-germany/

"One might just wonder if Mercedes cannot sell its electric SUV in its own backyard, how will its electric vehicles do in other markets that it depends on for revenue, such as China and the United States? The company has announced that it is delaying the release of the EQC in the US for another year, which does not bode well for the vehicle. As for Tesla, the game to conquer Europe begins soon with Tesla Gigafactory 4, and it has already opened the floodgates in China with the first deliveries of its mass-produced Model 3 electric sedans (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-china-mass-mic-model-3-deliveries-january-7/)."

and as i've mentioned before to you, ALL other EV makers are simply far behind Tesla in terms of infotainment and autonomous driving. Clear example is this review comparing a Model 3 to BMW's $300K top of the line M850i Gran Coupe.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-vs-bmw-autopilot-battle-video/

The video reviewer simply says while the BMW is a high end luxury performance car, one has to justify a whopping x 3 times the price compared to the Model 3. He's speaking in terms of autonomous driving ; quite clearly, the BMW is nothing near like Tesla's autonomous driving abiity and should be simply called 'adaptive cruise control' with 'auto lane control' ; and nothing more.

What i'm seeing is a lot of misinformation. These European brands talking about their cars being autonomous driving ability but are simply far from well... you get the idea.

No rational person is going to pay a huge price tag for an EV just because it's 'European'. 2nd, Telsa has patented new battery technology ; how will other car makes going to compete with that ? You can bet your boot the Germans have spent hoards of $$ on R&D on new battery techs.... to only just fall short of Tesla's ability. Why? Because they are ICE car makers and not battery tech / software makers.

[Beagle]

Looks like you're getting all your information from a Tesla propaganda site / forum, I'm sure that's completely objective lol
M Benz are trailing BMW, Audi and Jaguar with their EV's, that's a well known fact.
Lets wait and see how Tesla holds up when Jaguar, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz have a widespread range of EV's on the market shall we...
The autopilot that you keep raving about might be good on American highways but its going to be as useless as a woodpecker with a rubber beak on poorly market N.Z roads so here's a news flash, nobody cares about it here...

Remind me, which car won the coveted international prize of World Car of the Year in 2019 ? That's right it was the Jaguar I Pace...but what would an international panel of dozens of independent motoring journalists know lol

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/if-you-have-ordered-or-will-order-a-2019-tesla-model-3-here-are-the-quality-issues-you-can-expect-ar183918.html

He doesn't even start talking about interior trim fit and finish issues but what an absolute disgrace delivering a brand new car in that condition.
Just one of many stories I have read about Tesla's very poor quality control. If what you can see is so badly put assembled and presented, what about all the stuff you can't see ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-nextmove-idUSKCN1V61DG - Rubbish quality control.

[SBQ]

Looks like you're getting all your information from a Tesla propaganda site / forum, I'm sure that's completely objective lol
M Benz are trailing BMW, Audi and Jaguar with their EV's, that's a well known fact.
Lets wait and see how Tesla holds up when Jaguar, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz have a widespread range of EV's on the market shall we...
The autopilot that you keep raving about might be good on American highways but its going to be as useless as a woodpecker with a rubber beak on poorly market N.Z roads so here's a news flash, nobody cares about it here...

Remind me, which car won the coveted international prize of World Car of the Year in 2019 ? That's right it was the Jaguar I Pace...but what would an international panel of dozens of independent motoring journalists know lol

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/if-you-have-ordered-or-will-order-a-2019-tesla-model-3-here-are-the-quality-issues-you-can-expect-ar183918.html

He doesn't even start talking about interior trim fit and finish issues but what an absolute disgrace delivering a brand new car in that condition.
Just one of many stories I have read about Tesla's very poor quality control. If what you can see is so badly put assembled and presented, what about all the stuff you can't see ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-nextmove-idUSKCN1V61DG - Rubbish quality control.

FYI, that YouTube video review is nothing Tesla biased. He's an independant reviewer and if you watched the whole video, you would noticed the test models were RHD and you may of picked up his Australian accent where the review was done in Australia.

Bring on the autonomous driving by other makes? GM placed it's bet on using the Lidar system for autonomous driving.... where is that going? What's Jaguar got for infotainment and autonomous driving ability?

Also who cares what some international car review magazine says. The ONLY stat that matters is how many cars are ordered and filled. As for Mercedez, a whopping 55 is dismal.

[RTM]

“The autopilot that you keep raving about might be good on American highways but its going to be as useless as a woodpecker with a rubber beak on poorly market N.Z roads so here's a news flash, nobody cares about it here...”

Really? I think it will be great. Can’t wait for autopilot...I was wondering if it might come with an ICE car.

[Beagle]

“The autopilot that you keep raving about might be good on American highways but its going to be as useless as a woodpecker with a rubber beak on poorly market N.Z roads so here's a news flash, nobody cares about it here...”

Really? I think it will be great. Can’t wait for autopilot...I was wondering if it might come with an ICE car.

The roads needs to be clearly marked on the side, (with paint or something else) and middle so the system can clearly distinguish the lane in which to centre itself. Those sort of roads are very thin on the ground around where I live. BMW 7 series is quite capable of driving itself in the centre of a well marked lane and centres itself very well, rather than banging off one side and then the other of the lane like many lane keep assist systems do. Adaptive cruise control is widely available already and well as lane keep assist, (I have both on my 2019 Holden Calais V), and the former works very well and takes a lot of strain off long trips. I'd settle for less of those moronic speed bumps and for the potholes to be fixed promptly around our area. Asking for all roads to be marked properly isn't going to happen anytime soon but granted on many N.Z. main highways it already exists.

SBQ - Its clear that reviewer thought the quality control on that Model 3 was a disgrace. Its clear that the retail car company that had ordered 100 of them thought the quality of them was also a disgrace and rectification processes grossly inadequate. Tesla are asking $106,000 for a model 3 performance here and if I'm paying $100,000 plus I expect the quality of the vehicle to be commensurate with the price I am paying. I've owned a brand new top of the line Mercedes before and its presentation was completely flawless in every respect and that's what I expect if I'm paying a six figure sum for a car. I've had a close look at a couple of Tesla Model S, inside and outside. I would say the quality is on a par with a third rate Chinese manufactured vehicles....oh wait, Tesla is now manufactured in China too :p

There are many reviews online that rubbish the quality of Tesla because they are rubbish. Elon is a tech guy, its something completely different to build quality vehicles that are durable. Technology is nothing with the batteries and drive units if the rest of the car is complete rubbish.

The forthcoming BMW i6 or i7 is likely to meet the standards I expect of a high end electric vehicle or Mercedes might build an S Class EV and I could get back to driving a proper high end car again which would be nice.

SBQ - I think you are a Tesla zealot and arguing with you is a waste of my time. If you'd had the life experience of owning a high end Euro car you'd have an understanding of my perspective. To you a Tesla is an aspirational car, to me they're a tech fest but otherwise a rubbish car, those two positions are irreconcilable so lets just agree to disagree.

[SBQ]

The forthcoming BMW i6 or i7 is likely to meet the standards I expect of a high end electric vehicle or Mercedes might build an S Class EV and I could get back to driving a proper high end car again which would be nice.

.... 6 years later since Tesla's 1st introduction of the Model S... and all the other car makers are still clueless about EVs. No wonder Tesla can't produce enough to meet demand.

[Beagle]

.... 6 years later since Tesla's 1st introduction of the Model S... and all the other car makers are still clueless about EVs. No wonder Tesla can't produce enough to meet demand. SBQ

Oh please, enough of the Tesla religious fervor and drivel already. Jaguar I Pace just won the coveted "World car of the year title" as voted for by a large board of leading international motoring journalists, all of whom are independent.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/04/2019-world-car-of-the-year-jaguar-i-pace-is-the-big-winner-with-three-awards/
Are we to believe some stranger on the internet knows more than an international board of the world's leading motoring journalists :lol:

I have wasted more than enough of my time on you and your zealot views of Tesla.

[LAC]

MMmmmm those that are not Tesla believers will one day see the light:)
Tesla is far far far ahead of anyone else, when they announced their Tesla GPU's, I sold out of NVIDIA and moved all the funds into TESLA, all they needed to do was deliver the numbers for the cars and the rest would be history and they sure have.
2012 - 2600 evs
2019 - 365000 evs
And that is before the China gigafactory starts pumping out the numbers. TESLA has been a very good stock for me in my tech play portfolio.
TESLA will dominate the EV market for a very very very long time, you heard it here first:)

[Beagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/01/nhtsa-will-probe-fatal-tesla-model-s-crash.html?__twitter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal

[RTM]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/01/nhtsa-will-probe-fatal-tesla-model-s-crash.html?__twitter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal

Thanks. So often one sees these headlines...but not the outcome of the investigation.
I’m pretty sure auto-drive will not be perfect. But I suspect once sorted, it will be better than humans.

[Jay]

IMHO auto-drive will only work more or less perfectly when there are no humans driving at any time - and the roads are up to scratch with appropriate markings etc - so main highways, motorways etc here in NZ, but as beagle stated elsewhere in this country doubtful.
In 'enclosed' places like airports it will work I think

[Beagle]

Existing adaptive cruise control systems have various limitations, well described here http://www.audihelp.com/auda-58-system_limitations.html

[peat]

Existing adaptive cruise control systems have various limitations, well described here http://www.audihelp.com/auda-58-system_limitations.html

I've already had a couple of false BRAKES while driving the new Mazda3. It may of course not be up to Audi standards I don't know, but I'm leaving it on for now. I do believe some of you turn this feature off. I may do that too if it gives any more false positives.

[Beagle]

I've already had a couple of false BRAKES while driving the new Mazda3. It may of course not be up to Audi standards I don't know, but I'm leaving it on for now. I do believe some of you turn this feature off. I may do that too if it gives any more false positives.

I get them in my Holden Calais too. They do your head in a bit. Pays to give cars parked on the side of the road a fairly wide berth otherwise they will trigger the system.
One or two triggers that are unexplainable that were especially annoying. That said on the open road its a real pleasure to use. Just hit the adaptive cruise button, crank the stereo up, relax and enjoy.

[whatsup]

Another ATH today now @ $470 + !!

[k14]

Can I ask what your end game is for holding of Tesla? Hold and sell when the price hits $500/600/700? Or are you holding out for a dividend? Having done quite a bit of reading from both sides of the fence (google TSLAQ for the opposing view) and I am pretty skeptical about the long term viability of Tesla. Their CEO cannot be trusted but it seems the hype of all the fans speaks louder than the underlying company financial position. This is typical Elon pumping up the stock before the inevitable capital raise. Lets see how long till the next.

[LAC]

Can I ask what your end game is for holding of Tesla? Hold and sell when the price hits $500/600/700? Or are you holding out for a dividend? Having done quite a bit of reading from both sides of the fence (google TSLAQ for the opposing view) and I am pretty skeptical about the long term viability of Tesla. Their CEO cannot be trusted but it seems the hype of all the fans speaks louder than the underlying company financial position. This is typical Elon pumping up the stock before the inevitable capital raise. Lets see how long till the next.

Plan to hold for as long as the Gigafactories push out the numbers.... demand for their cars are there. Their market cap and SP dont make sense at this point I must admit but they are selling lots of cars while others are declining. They are miles ahead in the EV space regardless of what others may think. Moving into the chipset space is other big draw for me. Planning to put in my order this year as well. I have been holding since low-mid 100's

[whatsup]

Can I ask what your end game is for holding of Tesla? Hold and sell when the price hits $500/600/700? Or are you holding out for a dividend? Having done quite a bit of reading from both sides of the fence (google TSLAQ for the opposing view) and I am pretty skeptical about the long term viability of Tesla. Their CEO cannot be trusted but it seems the hype of all the fans speaks louder than the underlying company financial position. This is typical Elon pumping up the stock before the inevitable capital raise. Lets see how long till the next.
K14, May I suggest you look up CNBC's interview of Ron Barron re Tesla, 30 approx. long and very informative .

[Beagle]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=elon+dances+in+china&view=detail&mid=9542D0B29DEEAA3E91DC9542D0B29DEEAA3E91DC&FORM=VIRE

What was he "on" ?

[whatsup]

Closing in on $500 atm a 25% rise this year 8 days, STUNNING !!!

[whatsup]

US $520 close today, $775 Kiwi, , up 40% in 3 months wow !!

[Beagle]

Don't know how old you are but I remember the dot.com craze of 20 years ago like it was yesterday. I think every 15-20 years or so another generation of investors comes along that thinks they have figured out new metrics and ways of valuing companies. This is very much looking like the dot.com craze of 2000 and we all know how that ended.

All it takes is some other manufacturer to come out with a new battery technology that's superior, patent their invention and the house of cards will come tumbling down.

If that doesn't happen then there's all the established vehicle manufactures coming out with competing product. EXTREMLY high risk at the current price in my opinion.

Caveat Emptor

[whatsup]

70 + and seen a few.

[upside_umop]

May aswell ride it if you can!

Although I agree valuations feel stretched, we are no where near the dotcom level mania yet. The whole nasdaq doubled in in approx 6 months didn't it? We're up around 50% over the last 12 months.

[Beagle]

May aswell ride it if you can!

Although I agree valuations feel stretched, we are no where near the dotcom level mania yet. The whole nasdaq doubled in in approx 6 months didn't it? We're up around 50% over the last 12 months.

I think we're getting there. TINA, (There is no alternative to stocks) is seeing to that and people are putting some interesting prices on stocks with no reliable history of earnings.

Old hands like Whatsup should realise something is up and following a sea of crazed silicon valley money rushing headlong into tech might not be the best idea for 2020.

But wait there's more !! https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/ark-invest-catherine-wood-tesla-stock-going-to-over-6000-per-share.html

Tesla analyst says its going to $6,000. Better BUY then, what could possibly go wrong :D

[peat]

$6,000 !!!

To the moon!! oops I mean to the asteroid belt

​
Elon Musk’s Tesla Roadster, which launched on top of SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy earlier today, is going farther out into the Solar System than originally planned. The car was supposed to be put on a path around the Sun that would take the vehicle out to the distance of Mars’ orbit. But the rocket carrying the car seems to have overshot that trajectory and has put the Tesla in an orbit that extends out into the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter

[Arthur]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=elon+dances+in+china&view=detail&mid=9542D0B29DEEAA3E91DC9542D0B29DEEAA3E91DC&FORM=VIRE

What was he "on" ?
Take a look at this video of how in 10 months a muddy field turned into a car factory already capable of producing 150,000 cars a year. China has already sold out until the end of March. He has reason for his Dad dance, the doubters are still denying that he has built anything.
The "Tesla Killers" have been coming for years. Jaguar IPace and Etron are already out and selling in small numbers relative to Tesla. Porshe has a nice car, but it is expensive and the range is a joke, Mercedes EQC sales so far are pathetic. Teslas mission statement supports other car manufactures building electric. Every electric car sold of any kind is a win for Tesla.
The shareprice seems stupid, but taking a 5 year view I can see how it can be justified. There are several new vehicles coming on stream. There is a solar division that may gain traction, plus energy storage and Tesla owns a chain of chargers.
Disclosure
I own less than one share and am not planning on buying more at this price.

[Arthur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYf3QEuu138 is the video sorry

[fungus pudding]

Take a look at this video of how in 10 months a muddy field turned into a car factory already capable of producing 150,000 cars a year. China has already sold out until the end of March. He has reason for his Dad dance, the doubters are still denying that he has built anything.
The "Tesla Killers" have been coming for years. Jaguar IPace and Etron are already out and selling in small numbers relative to Tesla. Porshe has a nice car, but it is expensive and the range is a joke, Mercedes EQC sales so far are pathetic. Teslas mission statement supports other car manufactures building electric. Every electric car sold of any kind is a win for Tesla.
The shareprice seems stupid, but taking a 5 year view I can see how it can be justified. There are several new vehicles coming on stream. There is a solar division that may gain traction, plus energy storage and Tesla owns a chain of chargers.
Disclosure
I own less than one share and am not planning on buying more at this price.


So do I.
.

[LAC]

Enjoy the ride guys, been holding 140 shares for ages now. The SP is becoming stupid but enjoying the ride so far.

[whatsup]

and do not forget the 16 wheeler and the pickup, many more models yet to come, hold on for the ride, there will be ups and downs but the future is in EV's !!!!

[Joshuatree]

A friend tried to convince me a few weeks ago about buying into tesla but id read so much stuff about how the company was going to go bust had way too much debt, production and quality probs etc etc, looks like the noise got to me, what an amazing turn around and With Tesla so far ahead of the pack and demand for EV is ramping up hugely theres is no reason for it not continuing in this vein to be the next $trillion company ,sa la vie.

[upside_umop]

The whole thing that sparked this rally was the q3 earnings showed a profit of $143m.
However, there isn't clarity on a number of items that this comprised of:
1. The warranty provision was adjusted, resulting in a release to profit
2. The loans to build Shanghai were restated based on currency movements also resulting in a one-off profit
You take these two one off items out, it didn't make money.

Then you have had the 37 million of shorted shared being unwound and recycled to the current interest of 26 million shares alongside the hype that the Cybertruck will sell in large quantities (doubtful), TSLA will achieve the same marketshare in China as it does in the US and that it will be able to fund it's gigafactory in Germany from EV pooling with other car manufacturers.

What the media is not concentrating on is:
1. The US sales were down 39% on comp quarter in Q3 (yes, 39%).
2. The Netherlands is rushing to buy TSLA's before the sales tax doubled on 1 Jan 2020.
3. TSLA has now lost all of it's US federal tax credits and there are literally dozens of models coming out this year, that while are not TSLA killers, they will be substantially cheaper as they can utilise $7,500 in tax creds for a lot of vehicles (200,000 in volume). How does TSLA feel about competing against 1,000,000 vehicles subsidised when theirs are not? And that's after sales declined 39%.
4. TSLA cannot maintain a competitive advantage in battery tech (nor does it actually have it) for the long term.
5. TSLA has been able to charge upfront, large cash amounts for the promise of autonomous driving capability....yet they still burn cash. What happens when competitors offer this standard as part of their package? Or a subscription based on model?

It will be interesting to see, but there is a reason that 99% of all car manufacturers that have existed around the world have been bankrupt once or twice. It's bloody hard work.

Still, i do like the cars. Autopilot looks cool and it should be a winner takes all race....but we only hear about how TSLA are going and not the competitors. I mean, GM cruise have been delivering door to door pizzas with their cars for a while on trials now but that doesn't get hyped.

[Beagle]

The whole thing that sparked this rally was the q3 earnings showed a profit of $143m.
However, there isn't clarity on a number of items that this comprised of:
1. The warranty provision was adjusted, resulting in a release to profit
2. The loans to build Shanghai were restated based on currency movements also resulting in a one-off profit
You take these two one off items out, it didn't make money.

Then you have had the 37 million of shorted shared being unwound and recycled to the current interest of 26 million shares alongside the hype that the Cybertruck will sell in large quantities (doubtful), TSLA will achieve the same marketshare in China as it does in the US and that it will be able to fund it's gigafactory in Germany from EV pooling with other car manufacturers.

What the media is not concentrating on is:
1. The US sales were down 39% on comp quarter in Q3 (yes, 39%).
2. The Netherlands is rushing to buy TSLA's before the sales tax doubled on 1 Jan 2020.
3. TSLA has now lost all of it's US federal tax credits and there are literally dozens of models coming out this year, that while are not TSLA killers, they will be substantially cheaper as they can utilise $7,500 in tax creds for a lot of vehicles (200,000 in volume). How does TSLA feel about competing against 1,000,000 vehicles subsidised when theirs are not? And that's after sales declined 39%.
4. TSLA cannot maintain a competitive advantage in battery tech (nor does it actually have it) for the long term.
5. TSLA has been able to charge upfront, large cash amounts for the promise of autonomous driving capability....yet they still burn cash. What happens when competitors offer this standard as part of their package? Or a subscription based on model?

It will be interesting to see, but there is a reason that 99% of all car manufacturers that have existed around the world have been bankrupt once or twice. It's bloody hard work.

Still, i do like the cars. Autopilot looks cool and it should be a winner takes all race....but we only hear about how TSLA are going and not the competitors. I mean, GM cruise have been delivering door to door pizzas with their cars for a while on trials now but that doesn't get hyped.

Thank you for bring some interesting perspective to this debate. Here the so called people's car the Tesla 3 in base guise with no options has an asking price of $75,000 plus on road costs. How many Kiwi families can afford that ? I see at least 10 Nissan Leaf's on the road for every Tesla.

The point is Tesla is not making money on a sustainable basis so how do they fund future R&D ? Meanwhile the giant and highly experienced VW group have invested $91 Billion in EV...Tesla shareholders might like to ponder what the result of all the R&D research might involve ? Just one major game changing technological advancement that's patented by the VW Group could see the playing field change dramatically. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vws-91b-spend-evs-outpaces-investment-rivals

[Arthur]

VW have not spent $91B, they plan to spend it on EVs and batteries over the next ? years. In the meantime they are producing the ID.3 which looks like it could be a winner. Only trouble is that they have software issues, so they will have 10,000 large costly paper weights until??? They will be individually serviced by a software engineer when they find a patch.
The Koreans are making some great electric cars, but not in any volume yet,
The new Leaf is just over NZ$60,000. It is much better than the old ones you see everywhere, but I understand they still have issues with their batteries (heat management which is one reason the old ones are dying early giving EVs a bad name)
There are some really interesting EVs being sold in China.
The real competition is ICE vehicles. In Norway EVs are now 42% of the market, add in plug in hybrids and it was 56%. VW is suggesting that will be the norm in less than a decade, hence their investment in EVs.
The "mad fund manager" with the $6,000 target is assuming Tesla have 15% of the EV market.

[Joshuatree]

The whole thing that sparked this rally was the q3 earnings showed a profit of $143m.
However, there isn't clarity on a number of items that this comprised of:
1. The warranty provision was adjusted, resulting in a release to profit
2. The loans to build Shanghai were restated based on currency movements also resulting in a one-off profit
You take these two one off items out, it didn't make money.

Then you have had the 37 million of shorted shared being unwound and recycled to the current interest of 26 million shares alongside the hype that the Cybertruck will sell in large quantities (doubtful), TSLA will achieve the same marketshare in China as it does in the US and that it will be able to fund it's gigafactory in Germany from EV pooling with other car manufacturers.

What the media is not concentrating on is:
1. The US sales were down 39% on comp quarter in Q3 (yes, 39%).
2. The Netherlands is rushing to buy TSLA's before the sales tax doubled on 1 Jan 2020.
3. TSLA has now lost all of it's US federal tax credits and there are literally dozens of models coming out this year, that while are not TSLA killers, they will be substantially cheaper as they can utilise $7,500 in tax creds for a lot of vehicles (200,000 in volume). How does TSLA feel about competing against 1,000,000 vehicles subsidised when theirs are not? And that's after sales declined 39%.
4. TSLA cannot maintain a competitive advantage in battery tech (nor does it actually have it) for the long term.
5. TSLA has been able to charge upfront, large cash amounts for the promise of autonomous driving capability....yet they still burn cash. What happens when competitors offer this standard as part of their package? Or a subscription based on model?

It will be interesting to see, but there is a reason that 99% of all car manufacturers that have existed around the world have been bankrupt once or twice. It's bloody hard work.

Still, i do like the cars. Autopilot looks cool and it should be a winner takes all race....but we only hear about how TSLA are going and not the competitors. I mean, GM cruise have been delivering door to door pizzas with their cars for a while on trials now but that doesn't get hyped.

Thanks Upside,heres my friends reply to you.He appreciates the stress testing.

"The reasons for the recent surge in Tesla's share price goes far beyond the Q3 earnings. One of the biggest reasons is the rapid completion of Gigafactory 3 in China (in less than a year), and what appears to be a rapid ramp up in production of the Model 3. The Model Y is also appears to be going into production ahead of schedule and will probably be released in the first half of 2020.


The reduced Q4 sales of the Model 3 in the USA are due to supply constraints rather than lack of demand. For example some customers faced 2 months delays when they ordered a Model 3. Tesla didn't have any excess stock sitting around at the end of 2019, so they have no problems selling what they produce. As the China factory ramps up and supplies China, Tesla will no longer need to export Model 3 into China and will have more available to supply the USA market.


The same thing goes for the European market. Tesla currently only has a single factory in Fremont USA manufacturing the Model 3, so the number of cars it can supply into Europe is limited. That's why Gigafactory 4 is being built.


Regarding where the money for building the factories comes from: The funding for Gigafactory China came from a consortium of Chinese lenders at favourable interest rates. The factory is wholly owned by Tesla, so it isn't the usual joint venture that most non-Chinese companies have been forced into. Let that sink in. The Chinese have paid Tesla to build Gigafactory 3, and Tesla owns the factory.


Tesla also enjoys far higher gross margins on each car it sells than other car makers. In Q2 2019 Tesla reported a gross margin of 17.2% per car, and this margin has increased over 2019.
https://ark-invest.com/research/wrights-law-predicts-teslas-gross-margin


Some are predicting that the Chinese Model 3 will have a gross margin of 35%
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-made-in-china-model-3-profit-margin-cash-cow/


So that leaves plenty of revenue on the table to go towards building new factories.


Let those profit margins sink in. Most other car makers manufacture their EVs for little or no profit. Many are sold at a loss. (primarily due to the high cost of battery packs)


And that leads to Tesla's advantage in batteries: Tesla's battery packs are cheaper to build that their competitors. Tesla's battery management, including thermal management, is superior to other car makers. Sounds like a competitive advantage to me. And as the competitors eventually improve their batteries in few year's time to match Tesla's current offering, Tesla with only have pulled further ahead and continued to maintain their advantage.


And finally the Cybertruck: 250,000 people have laid down a $100 deposit to buy one, so there is plenty of interest. I've seen reports from business people operating pickup trucks who will shift to the Cybertruck when it comes available, based purely on its specs. It will be much cheaper to operate than an ICE truck and far more durable and reliable. Most of those people couldn't give a rat's arse what it looks like. That being said, the production release of the Cybertruck is too far out to have a material effect on Tesla's current share price, but as pre-production Cybertrucks start to circulate on the roads in a year's time, they will give a bump to the stock price (as is happening with pre-production sightings of the Model Y)."

[Beagle]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/118899288/tesla-faces-federal-review-of-unintended-acceleration-complaints

[Arthur]

It will be interesting to see if they investigate, the issue was prompted by a non Tesla owner short seller. For a long time there has been a $10,000 reward posted by a neutral party for anybody able to show car error rather than driver error. So far, nobody has successfully claimed it. I suspect the incredible acceleration of Teslas is to blame as people have little time to react if they hit the wrong pedal. There does seem to be an issue with phantom breaking, so I imagine that has caused a few noise to tails.
The short sellers have tried all sorts of lies - Elon has cancer etc, but hope if they sling enough mud some will stick.
The airport carpark fire in Norway was claimed to be a Tesla by the short sellers, but proved to be a diesel model with a know problem.
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/hundreds-cars-destroyed-fire-norway-airport
There are on average more than 150 car fires a day in the USA, but watch the internet light up if it happens to a Tesla.

BMW was in the gun last year https://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-bmw-fires-continue-calls-investigation-grow/story?id=60843215

[whatsup]

+ + WOW !!! TSLAs shares hit US$650 in after hours trading after a fantastic last qr and Musks statement that they will sell 500,000 units this year not counting trucks which when they are produced will be a massive winner, pickups to 16 wheelers , my early Jan purchased has doubled already and rumour is that we are headed to U S $800 per share ($1200 Kiwi ) shortly, say mid year, hmmmmm ! .

[LAC]

Interesting times...good cash flow

[k14]

Good to see the market continue to reward this company for it's solid underlying performance....

[LAC]

I think ima drop out now at $800

[blackcap]

I think ima drop out now at $800

My screen telling me $923 this morning. Time for me to put in a cheeky short.

[LAC]

My screen telling me $923 this morning. Time for me to put in a cheeky short.

Who would have thought lol....I didnt put the sell order through as was too late last night to do all that, was planning to do it this morning and look at it 900+ lol Im out now $925.22:)

[blackcap]

Who would have thought lol....I didnt put the sell order through as was too late last night to do all that, was planning to do it this morning and look at it 900+ lol Im out now $925.22:)

Well played, that must be a nice big profit. I think these prices are a bit extended. I also know that shorting can be fraught with danger. So a small one and lets see where it lands.

[k14]

Who would have thought lol....I didnt put the sell order through as was too late last night to do all that, was planning to do it this morning and look at it 900+ lol Im out now $925.22:)
Well done, great call. Who knows where the peak will be but this is going to end in a screaming heap.

[alistar_mid]

Oh please, enough of the Tesla religious fervor and drivel already. Jaguar I Pace just won the coveted "World car of the year title" as voted for by a large board of leading international motoring journalists, all of whom are independent.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/04/2019-world-car-of-the-year-jaguar-i-pace-is-the-big-winner-with-three-awards/
Are we to believe some stranger on the internet knows more than an international board of the world's leading motoring journalists :lol:

I have wasted more than enough of my time on you and your zealot views of Tesla.

Lol this didnt age well

[alistar_mid]

Good to see the market continue to reward this company for it's solid underlying performance....

Have you been living under a rock lol.

You think Tesla is going to be valued for its underlying performance rather than its future potential - esp when you extrapolate the turnaround of the last 6 months and look at their feats with stuff like the gigafactory. 10 months - what else can they do.


There is a case for a massive upside still (autonomous driving, their AI tech, mass market adoption of their cars, smashing the pickup truck market, battery tech, and self driving trucks)

Some bull cases are $15k

[k14]

Have you been living under a rock lol.

You think Tesla is going to be valued for its underlying performance rather than its future potential - esp when you extrapolate the turnaround of the last 6 months and look at their feats with stuff like the gigafactory. 10 months - what else can they do.


There is a case for a massive upside still (autonomous driving, their AI tech, mass market adoption of their cars, smashing the pickup truck market, battery tech, and self driving trucks)

Some bull cases are $15k

Well... lets see how well that post ages.

[whatsup]

$960. 00 atm and with only 170 mil shares on issue this share has a big future with $1000.00 beckoning imo.

[Beagle]

Lol this didnt age well

Irrational FOMO is alive and well with Tesla enthusiasts. Listening to CNBC this morning they mentioned that on the Robin Hood share trading platform there were 12,000 new retail investors who made purchases yesterday. Retail momentum investors are chasing this higher and just like other irrational bubbles in the past, tears will surely follow in due course.

[LAC]

I like the company but the SP is silly now. Was a good payday, dropped a few in BABA with the proceeds

[alistar_mid]

Well... lets see how well that post ages.


hahah well played.

If it does go anywhere near that I'm gonna feel stupid not buying more

[alistar_mid]

Irrational FOMO is alive and well with Tesla enthusiasts. Listening to CNBC this morning they mentioned that on the Robin Hood share trading platform there were 12,000 new retail investors who made purchases yesterday. Retail momentum investors are chasing this higher and just like other irrational bubbles in the past, tears will surely follow in due course.

I got in pretty big at $235, and then again at $199, for an average of $224.

Sold out 1/3 at 525 to pay an upcoming capital call on a private equity fund, and its allready covered that by continuing to go upwards.

This ain't my first rodeo lol

[blackcap]

Well played, that must be a nice big profit. I think these prices are a bit extended. I also know that shorting can be fraught with danger. So a small one and lets see where it lands.

Woke up this morning after putting a small short on yesterday. Did not expect that at all. Wow. Shorted at 936.12 and now its trading at 729.98. Not even sure what happened yet. Still feel its overpriced so will sit this one out a bit longer.

[Beagle]

Cunning play blackcap.

[blackcap]

Cunning play blackcap.

Not cunning at all. Just stupid luck. The Mrs and I were musing about 3 weeks ago that it was strange that the market cap of Tesla was higher than that of Ford etc. SO we said well lets put a small short on. I forgot about it till 4 days ago when I read something on the thread here that Tesla was at $600. (we were prepared to go short at $400) Then me being lazy did nothing about it till yesterday morning when I saw to my shock horror that it was trading at $930. So instantly I funded my CDF account and went short. The next morning (today) I woke up to this. Could not beleive it. Had a talk to the Mrs who wanted to take some off the table but I said, well we were prepared to short at $400 so lets wait a bit longer.

[Beagle]

Not cunning at all. Just stupid luck. The Mrs and I were musing about 3 weeks ago that it was strange that the market cap of Tesla was higher than that of Ford etc. SO we said well lets put a small short on. I forgot about it till 4 days ago when I read something on the thread here that Tesla was at $600. (we were prepared to go short at $400) Then me being lazy did nothing about it till yesterday morning when I saw to my shock horror that it was trading at $930. So instantly I funded my CDF account and went short. The next morning (today) I woke up to this. Could not beleive it. Had a talk to the Mrs who wanted to take some off the table but I said, well we were prepared to short at $500 so lets wait a bit longer.

Lot of talk by experts on CNBC today that the Tesla share price reminded them of other bubbles like the dot com craze of 1999 and more recently the crypto currency crazes. No mention of the Tulip mania in 1637 or goat mania in late 1980's when goats hit $15,000 a head in New Zealand. Good luck mate.

[Timesurfer]

Not cunning at all. Just stupid luck.
Good to win now and then ... but you have to be in to win so not just luck.

[Beagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/tesla-coronavirus-carmaker-plans-delay-to-model-3-deliveries-in-china.html

[whatsup]

Woke up this morning after putting a small short on yesterday. Did not expect that at all. Wow. Shorted at 936.12 and now its trading at 729.98. Not even sure what happened yet. Still feel its overpriced so will sit this one out a bit longer.

b c , nice to hear of a ballsy trade , but have you heard the latest from Crammer, says that it is headed higher than the recent record $960+ but could not say when, I tend to agree and was that the reason for todays bounce ?

[whatsup]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/tesla-coronavirus-carmaker-plans-delay-to-model-3-deliveries-in-china.html

Heard on CNBC that the Chinese have only to wait 1-2 months for a permit to own a E V v's 12 months for a conventional vehicle, could be one reason why they are so popular amoungst many others.

[blackcap]

b c , nice to hear of a ballsy trade , but have you heard the latest from Crammer, says that it is headed higher than the recent record $960+ but could not say when, I tend to agree and was that the reason for todays bounce ?

Cheers whatsup, I know its ballsy, I know shorting is dangerous so its only a small trade. Cramer hhmmmm, he is a funny guy, but they did some Phd study on him and he underperforms the market was the conclusion. But yeah I know TSLA can go higher, much higher. But it can also go much lower. I have lived through 2 bubbles now and this smacks of one. Although it could well be that we are still in the initial stages of said bubble and TSLA goes up to $5,000 before falling to more realistic levels. Time will tell. I have a tight stop in place if things get out of hand.

[Beagle]

Did the books for a angora goat farmer in the 1980's and as mentioned the other day at one point the market value for a good breeding angora goat got to $15,000 a head.
I remember as a young accountant sitting down with him and asking how they could possibly be worth that much and being completely perplexed with his answer.
Wonder what they are worth now.... https://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/farming-forestry/livestock/goats/auction-2515996241.htm?rsqid=463453c95b5c4a728130e84e7de04 d76-001 Seen the big bubble in Deer prices collapse too and who can forget the dotcom era when the Nasdaq fell a whopping 90% in a period of time after many companies with bubbles therein went "pop".

Tesla zealots will always point to a number of factors that suggest world domination is imminent including claims their battery technology is better, their electric drive units more technically advanced and so on. There is undeniably massive competition coming and the write up in the current February 2020 issue of N.Z. Autocar on the Mercedes-Benz EQC is an interesting read. You can now have typical Mercedes-Benz quality with your EV and they are rolling out 7 more EV models over the next couple of years. Audi too have a large number of EV's coming between now and 2024 as do BMW and Jaguar. GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and many others are in the advanced stages of preparing for a massive new model onslaught with EV's.

[whatsup]

Did the books for a angora goat farmer in the 1980's and as mentioned the other day at one point the market value for a good breeding angora goat got to $15,000 a head.
I remember as a young accountant sitting down with him and asking how they could possibly be worth that much and being completely perplexed with his answer.
Wonder what they are worth now.... https://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/farming-forestry/livestock/goats/auction-2515996241.htm?rsqid=463453c95b5c4a728130e84e7de04 d76-001 Seen the big bubble in Deer prices collapse too and who can forget the dotcom era when the Nasdaq fell a whopping 90% in a period of time after many companies with bubbles therein went "pop".

Tesla zealots will always point to a number of factors that suggest world domination is imminent including claims their battery technology is better, their electric drive units more technically advanced and so on. There is undeniably massive competition coming and the write up in the current February 2020 issue of N.Z. Autocar on the Mercedes-Benz EQC is an interesting read. You can now have typical Mercedes-Benz quality with your EV and they are rolling out 7 more EV models over the next couple of years. Audi too have a large number of EV's coming between now and 2024 as do BMW and Jaguar. GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and many others are in the advanced stages of preparing for a massive new model onslaught with EV's.

Beagle Tend to agree but a driving force of the livestock boom was the tax write off that prevailed at the time, nothing to do with livestock value if I remember right.

[alistar_mid]

Did the books for a angora goat farmer in the 1980's and as mentioned the other day at one point the market value for a good breeding angora goat got to $15,000 a head.
I remember as a young accountant sitting down with him and asking how they could possibly be worth that much and being completely perplexed with his answer.
Wonder what they are worth now.... https://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/farming-forestry/livestock/goats/auction-2515996241.htm?rsqid=463453c95b5c4a728130e84e7de04 d76-001 Seen the big bubble in Deer prices collapse too and who can forget the dotcom era when the Nasdaq fell a whopping 90% in a period of time after many companies with bubbles therein went "pop".

Tesla zealots will always point to a number of factors that suggest world domination is imminent including claims their battery technology is better, their electric drive units more technically advanced and so on. There is undeniably massive competition coming and the write up in the current February 2020 issue of N.Z. Autocar on the Mercedes-Benz EQC is an interesting read. You can now have typical Mercedes-Benz quality with your EV and they are rolling out 7 more EV models over the next couple of years. Audi too have a large number of EV's coming between now and 2024 as do BMW and Jaguar. GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and many others are in the advanced stages of preparing for a massive new model onslaught with EV's.

Lmao a vague analogy to something that was overvalued that is so apple's and oranges... well I dont have an analogy for how bad I think your analogy is.

Does an angora goat have the ability to be scaled?

[Arthur]

Let's hope the legacy makers do up their game on EVs, otherwise they will die. The question is how quickly will the switch to EVs happen. There are several cities and countries where new fossil fuel based cars will be banned in the coming years. Evs are already over 50% of the new car market in Norway. New fossil fuel run car sales have been rapidly falling in France, UK, Germany and even Australia. Renault and Peugeot have good EVs in the market, The Koreans are doing well, but seem to be supply limited. The Leaf sells well, despite the battery issues. VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes will eventually sort out their production issues. Toyota will be working on full evs in case their strategy of Fuel Cells and Hybrids fails. Tesla needs these companies to succeed. The question is will Tesla have no market share of the car market or 20%. That is the difference between Tesla at $0 and Tesla at $15,000 a share.

[upside_umop]

Definitely in a bubble but we will go back up before we go down. This is classic behaviour.

I expect we hit 850 - 880 before go back down again. I think the shake out of 30% from it's peak means we probably won't see the highs again.... could be wrong :)

[winner69]

What would happen to TSLA shareprice if Eion dies?

[Arthur]

If he dies the price would drop, but the technology would not be uninvented, the momentum of change would likely slow.

[Arthur]

Here is an unpaid EQC review for you Beagle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTUx77n4Ww

[upside_umop]

Definitely in a bubble but we will go back up before we go down. This is classic behaviour.

I expect we hit 850 - 880 before go back down again. I think the shake out of 30% from it's peak means we probably won't see the highs again.... could be wrong :)

Unfortunately I couldn't hang on - I broke my own trading rules and ended up down! Was 650 shares short (500 in £ denom) so it's kind of hard to watch where it is right now.... would have been a few hundred £k. Never mind. More bubbles will pop. But I probably won't be as aggressive next time!!

[k14]

This thread's gone pretty quiet. Who doesn't like a CEO talking down the stock? Such great leadership....

[winner69]

This thread's gone pretty quiet. Who doesn't like a CEO talking down the stock? Such great leadership....

He’s taken so long to catch up with this guy it’s not funny ...over 100 years and still just talking about it

[Crypto Crude]

This thread's gone pretty quiet. Who doesn't like a CEO talking down the stock? Such great leadership....

I'm expecting Tesla to get down to 200-300 before it takes off again... way to overvalued now...damn interesting stock to follow for sure !
:cool:cc

[blackcap]

Elon has had a few things to say:

“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom."
“So the expansion of the shelter in place or as frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes, against all their constitutional rights, but that’s my opinion, and breaking people’s freedoms in ways that are horrible and wrong, and not why people came to America or built this country. What the f---. Excuse me. It’s outrage, it’s an outrage. It will cause great harm not just to Tesla, but to many companies. And while Tesla will weather the storm there are many small companies that will not,” he said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/29/elon-musk-slams-coronavirus-shelter-in-place-orders-as-fascist.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain

[k14]

Elon has had a few things to say:

“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom."
“So the expansion of the shelter in place or as frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes, against all their constitutional rights, but that’s my opinion, and breaking people’s freedoms in ways that are horrible and wrong, and not why people came to America or built this country. What the f---. Excuse me. It’s outrage, it’s an outrage. It will cause great harm not just to Tesla, but to many companies. And while Tesla will weather the storm there are many small companies that will not,” he said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/29/elon-musk-slams-coronavirus-shelter-in-place-orders-as-fascist.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain
Yeah and I think a few mins later the call had "technical difficulties". What a complete loose cannon. Can't see why anyone in their right mind would invest in this company. At any moment the CEO can jump on twitter and effect the stock price by significant amounts then goes into crazy tirades on investor calls. Great entertainment (if you aren't an investor).

[blackcap]

11559

:cool:cc

I am really starting to warm to this guy....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/elon-musk-tesla-factory-covid.html

[peat]

Tesla have so many great tech advancements with batteries,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-tesla-batteries-exclusive/exclusive-teslas-secret-batteries-aim-to-rework-the-math-for-electric-cars-and-the-grid-idUSKBN22Q1WC

it would seem this article supports that view.

[Joshuatree]

IF he achieves that the cult of Musk will turn into that of an Earth Warrior Saviour.

[Joshuatree]

Wasnt long ago every Investment advisor i read said sell tesla, now it looks to be going the other way.Saw a $2000 price target today!



.Tesla’s stock soars to 4th-straight record as Wall Street’s biggest bear raises price target.8 hours ago (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjhnsyT-rrqAhVHU30KHQfsBb4Q0PADegQIAxAH&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marketwatch.com%2Fstory%2Fte slas-stock-soars-toward-record-as-wall-streets-biggest-bear-raises-price-target-2020-07-06&usg=AOvVaw3GArvuDcWdZpbKxlSHjzw_)

[whatsup]

Thank you for bring some interesting perspective to this debate. Here the so called people's car the Tesla 3 in base guise with no options has an asking price of $75,000 plus on road costs. How many Kiwi families can afford that ? I see at least 10 Nissan Leaf's on the road for every Tesla.

The point is Tesla is not making money on a sustainable basis so how do they fund future R&D ? Meanwhile the giant and highly experienced VW group have invested $91 Billion in EV...Tesla shareholders might like to ponder what the result of all the R&D research might involve ? Just one major game changing technological advancement that's patented by the VW Group could see the playing field change dramatically. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vws-91b-spend-evs-outpaces-investment-rivals


Beagle, Hit $1400.00 PER SHARE last night stunning, looks like the $2000.00 target (may ) be reached this year, who would have believed that in Jan this year when it was circa $300-$400.00 per share!

[whatsup]

Woke up this morning after putting a small short on yesterday. Did not expect that at all. Wow. Shorted at 936.12 and now its trading at 729.98. Not even sure what happened yet. Still feel its overpriced so will sit this one out a bit longer.

b----c--, Hope you have closed out your short ? if so let us know the numbers please?

[blackcap]

b----c--, Hope you have closed out your short ? if so let us know the numbers please?

Haha, yeah long gone that one. But I am watching this one with amazement and looking for another short but too scared at the moment...

[whatsup]

Haha, yeah long gone that one. But I am watching this one with amazement and looking for another short but too scared at the moment...

Well done I love success stories.

[alistar_mid]

Its a pretty basic investment case.

Auto industry is going to go all or majority EV over the next couple of years.

Tesla is mile, miles ahead of every other "auto maker" (tesla is really a tech company that happens to make cars though), the argument that VW, Ford, Toyota will catch up is hilarious. You can do this research for yourself - just go test drive a Tesla. Eg, Porsche have been working on an EV supercar for years... it comes out.. its slower than a model 3, has less range, and costs about twice as much!

So therefore, just on their auto products, they will be massive, possibly a trillion dollar revenue company.
Not to mention their other products and stuff they can do, batteries, the self driving tech - which is all done on data. Nearest competitor has 20 million miles of data for self driving tech... Tesla has 3 billion.

Easiest case ever to put money in, the potential upside is huge. I went in big at $260, then again when it dropped to $200. Pretty happy right now. Was easy decision after reading Elon's book and seeing the drive and commitment he had to put EVERYTHING into this company, and then test driving one at the same time.

[whatsup]

Its a pretty basic investment case.

Auto industry is going to go all or majority EV over the next couple of years.

Tesla is mile, miles ahead of every other "auto maker" (tesla is really a tech company that happens to make cars though), the argument that VW, Ford, Toyota will catch up is hilarious. You can do this research for yourself - just go test drive a Tesla. Eg, Porsche have been working on an EV supercar for years... it comes out.. its slower than a model 3, has less range, and costs about twice as much!

So therefore, just on their auto products, they will be massive, possibly a trillion dollar revenue company.
Not to mention their other products and stuff they can do, batteries, the self driving tech - which is all done on data. Nearest competitor has 20 million miles of data for self driving tech... Tesla has 3 billion.

Easiest case ever to put money in, the potential upside is huge. I went in big at $260, then again when it dropped to $200. Pretty happy right now. Was easy decision after reading Elon's book and seeing the drive and commitment he had to put EVERYTHING into this company, and then test driving one at the same time.

a l , Well done very interesting story ( book ) and business see Paypal , one thing that I would like to know is how much profit/margin is made per( average ) car so as to judge TSLA's future numbers , I read somewhere that the average BMW produces US $5000.00 profit/margin per car, whether the Republicans or Democrats win in the U S does not seem to matter for the future of TSLA as it has momentum now and its future will only become more dominant.

[Zaphod]

.

Tesla is mile, miles ahead of every other "auto maker" (tesla is really a tech company that happens to make cars though), the argument that VW, Ford, Toyota will catch up is hilarious. You can do this research for yourself - just go test drive a Tesla. Eg, Porsche have been working on an EV supercar for years... it comes out.. its slower than a model 3, has less range, and costs about twice as much!
.

Miles ahead in the EV component, yes. Miles ahead in every other aspect? No. Handling, quality of production, interior comfort etc. are all areas where Tesla could and are improving, but these are aspects most consumers will consider along with range and cost.

[whatsup]

Tesla in a major bubble

What detractors do not understand about Tesla, its all about their technology and in particular its their batteries which gives them their massive edge , with this they are a lighter and more powerful vehicle which no other manufacture can come within a mile of, imo they will be the leader of the pack for many years to come.

What Im looking forward to is the decision to manufacture of a sports car, hard top and convertible , now this would be a head turner and will imo be the most exciting vehicle release since the Mustang in the mid 1060,s.

[whatsup]

What can I say ,time will tell, I wont be selling my shares just yet.

[whatsup]

Oh wow you own Tesla shares...
Talk about self sabotage lol...

Ave cost $425 U S held some for over a year , balance bought in Jan this year.

[voltage]

Would you buy this stock now? I think it is hard to justify at this price.

[stoploss]

Would you buy this stock now? I think it is hard to justify at this price.
Thats what Hosking said at $ 600 ......

[whatsup]

Tesla is so expenise its a marketers dream...
The financials are empty.. 120 million quarterly profit and they go waa hoo...
On a 300,000 million dollar company....showing 120 million surplus on its books oh yup .....
Its beyond madness now...
Tesla is really only worth a few hundred dollars...
Maybe add a few more for Elon Musk, and goodwill but thats it really...


C C , if you did some research into TSLA you would find that their battery tech for residential use " could " be as big a money earner as the auto use, cars, trucks, pick ups and sports cars etc , not to mention other forms of vehicle transport, I for one will not be selling for a while, ride the trend !

[whatsup]

The value of Tesla is beyond madness...
Its so much blue sky its beyond unreal...
...
Just great marketing and presentations but no financials to back it up...
Accountants and auditors would have an easy job at Tesla , theres nothing to look at

not to mention the 5/1 split announced today !!

[whatsup]

The value of Tesla is beyond madness...
Its so much blue sky its beyond unreal...
...
Just great marketing and presentations but no financials to back it up...
Accountants and auditors would have an easy job at Tesla , theres nothing to look at

Bearing in mind that there are only 186.3 million shares on issue so the 5/1 split is most welcome and Im picking that it will lead to a higher M C shortly. $1565.00 p s today once the split happens I can see this number be circa $2000.00 / share !!

[MarineSalvage]

agree... very clever move by Musk, I've been accumulating
Bearing in mind that there are only 186.3 million shares on issue so the 5/1 split is most welcome and Im picking that it will lead to a higher M C shortly. $1565.00 p s today once the split happens I can see this number be circa $2000.00 / share !!

[whatsup]

Tesla can rise in price sure...
But its still one of the most expensive stocks the world has ever seen and will remain that way until profits increase exponentially

Berkshire Hathaway A shares $316,251.00 PER SHARE !!

Berkshire Hathaway B shares $210.96 PER Share !!

both off their all time high !!

[MarineSalvage]

Shopify has also been well over 1000...
Berkshire Hathaway A shares $316,251.00 PER SHARE !!

Berkshire Hathaway B shares $210.96 PER Share !!

both off their all time high !!

[alistar_mid]

Tesla is so expenise its a marketers dream...
The financials are empty.. 120 million quarterly profit and they go waa hoo...
On a 300,000 million dollar company....showing 120 million surplus on its books oh yup .....
Its beyond madness now...
Tesla is really only worth a few hundred dollars...
Maybe add a few more for Elon Musk, and goodwill but thats it really...

haha can't make this **** up

Your name is crypto dude - where as crypto is absolutely zero present value, its all based on its potential future value
And then with Tesla, which has probably a few hundred $ based on its present numbers, and most of the value on where its going to be, you somehow can't see this?

Go review Tesla's last 2 years and how they've gone, constantly beating expectations, constantly delivering more than expected, built some giga factories.

BITCONNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT!!!!!

[alistar_mid]

The value of Tesla is beyond madness...
Its so much blue sky its beyond unreal...
...
Just great marketing and presentations but no financials to back it up...
Accountants and auditors would have an easy job at Tesla , theres nothing to look at

hey bitconnect

Tesla has a $ Zero marketing budget hahahhaa - Thats one of their points of difference

No financials? Their surge from $1k to where they are now is based on financials. Beating forecasts. Inclusion into the S&P 500 is based on financials - they have 3/4 boxes ticked I think?

[Toulouse - Luzern]

I was out walking in Khandallah and about 1km from home and I saw a couple of interesting projects.
On one side of the street scaffolding and a re-roof.
On the other 19 x LG Solar panels with a TESLA storage battery.
The beginning of a major innovation.
I think it is next month TESLA has a battery day event...

[whatsup]

I was out walking in Khandallah and about 1km from home and I saw a couple of interesting projects.
On one side of the street scaffolding and a re-roof.
On the other 19 x LG Solar panels with a TESLA storage battery.
The beginning of a major innovation.
I think it is next month TESLA has a battery day event...


Like I posted earlier on, the battery technology " could " be a bigger earner that the auto division, speaking of that, there is a recent report that their battery and Ai technology is so superior that most of the auto companies that will be getting into the EV market will be using the Tesla technology.

Investors thinking of getting into TSLA should get into it before the 4/1 split circa $1900.00 U S , once the split happens it will not be long before it $1000.00 again !!

[MarineSalvage]

Musk himself says the energy division will be bigger than auto... I bought more this week...
Like I posted earlier on, the battery technology " could " be a bigger earner that the auto division, speaking of that, there is a recent report that their battery and Ai technology is so superior that most of the auto companies that will be getting into the EV market will be using the Tesla technology.

Investors thinking of getting into TSLA should get into it before the 4/1 split circa $1900.00 U S , once the split happens it will not be long before it $1000.00 again !!

[madmat]

Interesting comments from someone who places crypto on a pedestal. Tesla / Musk is innovative ... crypto is like a pyramid scheme in comparison.
LOL good one buddy ...
Tesla can keep rising in value... sure why not... but hey for a company valued at 350 billion dollars it's only making a net profit this year of about 3 dollars...it could not be the sort of investment I'd ever want...
The numbers in the financials are so small I could do the accounts in about 15 minutes from start to end... just a few receipts to book and job is done...
Tesla is one of the most absurd valuations the world has seen... it's never had a profit in 17 years... it doesn't make any money...its so juiced up it needs to have income around 5 times it's current value, and would need to build production by a factor of 10 or 20 times to support such a lofty mcap....
You wouldn't buy a house for $1.2 million that could be only rented for $200 per week... so why pay the blue sky and pay for the company that's not earning you the money...
You just wouldn't...

alistar, tesla is like crypto on steroids...
Tesla makes crypto look tame and timid...
For real....

[whatsup]

Blasted into $2000.00 / share up 6.5% plus punters getting set for the 4/1 split.

[MarineSalvage]

10 days away I’m still accumulating but getting harder and more expensive
Blasted into $2000.00 / share up 6.5% plus punters getting set for the 4/1 split.

[whatsup]

10 days away I’m still accumulating but getting harder and more expensive

google , when is the date for the tesla stock split,

answer is 21st august , to be distributed after close of trading on 28 august 2020.

last date could be tomorrow 21st aug in the US .

[MarineSalvage]

Don’t know why I had 31 Aug in my head... I bought Workhorse today as Tesla was on another run
google , when is the date for the tesla stock split,

answer is 21st august , to be distributed after close of trading on 28 august 2020.

last date could be tomorrow 21st aug in the US .

[Arthur]

Consumer Reports in USA had Model 3 as most satisfying car in all age groups. Biggest surprise to me was the elderly also rated Tesla as most satisfying car. Big oil/ shorts/ICE spin was the anyone over 50 was to stupid to operate the touch screen.
Baby Boomers

Baby Boomers were born from 1946 to 1964 and grew up driving some of the most notorious cars that have ever been made. The Ford Mustang, for example, was produced for the first time in March 1964 and is still among the most popular vehicles on the road today. The muscle car from the American car company took the 10th place spot on this list, but it was no match for the Model 3, which once again reigned supreme. The Model S also was preferred by this age group, sitting in the fourth position.

Tesla Model 3
Ford Expedition
Porsche 718 Boxster
Tesla Model S
Mazda MX-5 Miata
Volvo XC40
Dodge Challenger
Toyota Prius
BMW X5
Ford Mustang

Silent Generation

The Silent Generation precedes the Baby Boomers and includes those who were born from 1928 to 1945. The Model 3, once again, was most preferred by this age group, with the Model S taking third place. Two different variants of the Toyota Prius were included on the list, but neither outshined two of Tesla’s pure electric vehicles that were included on the list.

Tesla Model 3
Genesis G90
Tesla Model S
Toyota Prius V
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Prius
Subaru Forester
Hyundai Santa Fe
Mazda6
Ford Mustang

[Arthur]

The younger generations also rated Tesla best. 420,000 car owners were surveyed, so the survey has some credibility.


The survey asked owners if they would buy the same car twice. It also asked for ratings in terms of driving experience, comfort, value, styling, and audio controls.

Millennials

The term millennial refers to anyone who was born from 1981 to 1996. It was widely accepted by this age group that the Tesla Model 3 was the most favorable vehicle. The affordability of the Model 3, along with its appeal, makes it an ideal choice for those who are grouped into this category.

Honda held the majority of the top ten, with the Japanese carmaker holding four spots with its Accord, CR-V, Civic, and Odyssey.

Tesla Model 3
Subaru Ascent
Mazda CX-5
Honda Accord
Subaru Forester
Ford F-150
Honda CR-V
Honda Civic
Honda Odyssey
Subaru Impreza

Generation X

Generation X includes any person born from 1965 to 1980. This group also chose the Model 3 as their preferred vehicle, but the Model S and Model X were also included in the list at the second and fourth place spots, respectively.

Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model S
Audi A5
Tesla Model X
Volkswagen Golf
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Subaru Ascent
Jeep Wrangler
Volkswagen GTI

[Toulouse - Luzern]

Don’t know why I had 31 Aug in my head... I bought Workhorse today as Tesla was on another run

Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
google , when is the date for the tesla stock split,

answer is 21st august , to be distributed after close of trading on 28 august 2020.

last date could be tomorrow 21st aug in the US .


My understanding is that if you are on the Share Registry at close of business on Friday 21 August 2020 US Time then you will participate in the split. What I don't know is whether you needed to have purchased three days before that. Is there a T+3 situation in US Share Registry stuff?

Comments please.

[tango]

Nope
Buy the shares up until 28 August to participate.
Share splits aren't like dividends. The ex date is meaningless

The only date that matters is the split date
If you own shares at close of trading on 28 august 2020 you will get the bonus shares

https://www.tdameritrade.com/investment-products/trade-stocks/aapl-tsla-apple-tesla-stock-splits-2020.page

[whatsup]

Nope
Buy the shares up until 28 August to participate.
Share splits aren't like dividends. The ex date is meaningless

The only date that matters is the split date
If you own shares at close of trading on 28 august 2020 you will get the bonus shares

https://www.tdameritrade.com/investment-products/trade-stocks/aapl-tsla-apple-tesla-stock-splits-2020.page

Says it all, thank you.

[whatsup]

Elon Musk is the most important person the World has ever seen...
Tesla is like the most important business ever... SpaceX too...
So long as you don't look at the financials you will be ok...
this company is the most incredible and most insane ever... its market capitalisation (mcap) is thousands of multiples of its profit...
....
There will come a time when Tesla will have to do stock consolidations...
Tesla has done nearly everything apart from the most important part of all...

SHOW US THE MONEYYYY....

A $360 billion dollar company is a lot of money
....its way way too pricey for what your actually getting in terms of actual earnings ...

Agree, but tell that to the Robin Hood investors, same applies to the N Z Sharesieese investors !@

[tango]

Agree, but tell that to the Robin Hood investors, same applies to the N Z Sharesieese investors !@

And Hatch!

And all the YouTubers pumping the stock... Crazy

I wanted to buy Apple but all the Robin Hood investors who don't understand stock splits are pushing the price through the roof.
Not to worry. Sometime in the next year there will be a correction and I can get my AAPL stock at a decent price

Thinking about it I should drop some of my Amazon and Alphabet shares before the market tanks. I reckon I have a bit more time to enjoy the ride

[peat]

buy one
get four more free?

[stoploss]

People...
TESLA stock price is to be a worry...
A major Thorne... if it went up and I didnt own stock it wouldn't even bother me.. it's just not the smart sort of investment that has a financial footing to support value...
..
DID YOU KNOW...
Tesla is the most shorted company of all time...
And it's been shorted for a reason...
...
Tesla is due a major reversal... it might not happen anytime soon...
But eventually it has to...
People been saying that about AAPL for 20 years CC. Be pretty burnt if you kept the short on that long .......

[whatsup]

People...
TESLA stock price is to be a worry...
A major Thorne... if it went up and I didnt own stock it wouldn't even bother me.. it's just not the smart sort of investment that has a financial footing to support value...
..
DID YOU KNOW...
Tesla is the most shorted company of all time...
And it's been shorted for a reason...
...
Tesla is due a major reversal... it might not happen anytime soon...
But eventually it has to...

Tesla today has 148,520,000 shares on issue.

There are as of 14/8/20 12,312,197 shares shorted.

Its Market cap today is $377,073,134,685.00 not bad for a company that well/is going broke !!

[k14]

Elon Musk is the most important person the World has ever seen...
Tesla is like the most important business ever... SpaceX too...
So long as you don't look at the financials you will be ok...
this company is the most incredible and most insane ever... its market capitalisation (mcap) is thousands of multiples of its profit...
....
There will come a time when Tesla will have to do stock consolidations...
Tesla has done nearly everything apart from the most important part of all...

SHOW US THE MONEYYYY....

A $360 billion dollar company is a lot of money
....its way way too pricey for what your actually getting in terms of actual earnings ...
I think it roughly works out to a valuation of $1m per car manufactured in the last year. That is a car that gets sold for around $50-60k with sales flat last two years. Exponential growth?

[alistar_mid]

People...
TESLA stock price is to be a worry...
A major Thorne... if it went up and I didnt own stock it wouldn't even bother me.. it's just not the smart sort of investment that has a financial footing to support value...
..
DID YOU KNOW...
Tesla is the most shorted company of all time...
And it's been shorted for a reason...
...
Tesla is due a major reversal... it might not happen anytime soon...
But eventually it has to...

haha, when?

when they announce a million mile nano tech battery that will likely change the energy business forever?
Or an autonomous taxi fleet?

You realise "you" sang the same song with Amazon nearly 20 years ago "amazon is valued at more than barns and noble - amazon is just some online retailer with barely any revenues!"

[whatsup]

Alistar,
I don't recall...
I'm not going to get it right everytime man...
1 out of 100 times mistakes will be made...

Tesla though...
-> its diabolical....
It's a marketer's dream... a presentation masterpiece... a visionary of blue sky... but when its comes to money Tesla is a ball buster......
Tesla have no money and earn little wee profits...
Just chugging along with a decent amount of debt, cute presentations and marketing and PR going into overdrive...

Showwww us the money maker Musk...

Cc you could very well be right.

The 4/1 stock split will take effect on Monday it will , along with Apples 3/1 split , be very interesting where it settles at the close of trade on that day, I suspect it will be a slight rise on the day .

[stoploss]

The market capitalisation of tesla is so juiced up they are going to need an International market maker to support this valuation ... they have to supply a product or service that changes Earth ..... and after all the blue sky, they have to actually do it....

Talk is cheap...

Money talks...
CC if talk is cheap how about you post your short ticket on TSLA ?

[whatsup]

The market capitalisation of tesla is so juiced up they are going to need an International market maker to support this valuation ... they have to supply a product or service that changes Earth ..... and after all the blue sky, they have to actually do it....

Talk is cheap...

Money talks...

C C , As you well know Tesla is not just about E V's that is only one part of this great company, the other parts will be rolled out in good time.

[stoploss]

Whatsup,

500 billion dollar companies can not be sustainably supported by 100 million dollar profits...!!
CC unless you put your money where your mouth is and short this can you quit the bleating and stick to BTC .
Just wondering are you already short and caught , that’s why you are bleating like a lost lamb ?

[whatsup]

Whatsup,

500 billion dollar companies can not be sustainably supported by 100 million dollar profits...!!

C C , TSLA have just raised 5,000,000,000.00 from instos who have had a long look at the company before giving them a resounding yes, speaks volumes in my book, good enough for them and good enough for me.
They could still collapse so I hear your concern !

[Arthur]

I suspect the cash raise is to ease index funds to get their "compulsory" allocation if it gets added to S&P 500. There are lots of short sellers and the like trying to discourage Teslas inclusion in the index, despite Tesla appearing to meet the S&Ps criteria. Shame they did not go for 10 billion.

[whatsup]

Back to pre split level after shake out !

[whatsup]

Whatsup,
My sanity levels are starting to feel better again lol...
Tesla...
Just WOW
...
Words cant even describe how sickly this is to watch...


yeh but when you paid sub $400 pre split it still is all good !

[Beagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/06/tesla-could-be-the-most-dangerous-stock-on-wall-street-investment-researcher-says.html

I am sure the Tesla zealots will have strong counter arguments but to be quite frank, I couldn't care less.
I wouldn't touch this with a 40ft barge pole.

[clearasmud]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/06/tesla-could-be-the-most-dangerous-stock-on-wall-street-investment-researcher-says.html

I am sure the Tesla zealots will have strong counter arguments but to be quite frank, I couldn't care less.
I wouldn't touch this with a 40ft barge pole.
Still a likely ten bagger to come according to gurus on you tube.

[Beagle]

Pop goes the bubble - down 34% in the last few days. Its like a game of musical chairs or a Ponzi scheme, you don't want to be left holding the crying baby when the music stops.

There's a vast range of new electric vehicles coming out in the next few years from companies that know how to build them in a high quality way.

Reality will bite shareholders in a major way in the years ahead...its only just started in my opinion.

[whatsup]

Pop goes the bubble - down 34% in the last few days. Its like a game of musical chairs or a Ponzi scheme, you don't want to be left holding the crying baby when the music stops.

There's a vast range of new electric vehicles coming out in the next few years from companies that know how to build them in a high quality way.

Reality will bite shareholders in a major way in the years ahead...its only just started in my opinion.

Don't forget that most of the yet to be manufactors will use the Tesla technology, watch the million mile battery presentation later on this month.

[k14]

Pop goes the bubble - down 34% in the last few days. Its like a game of musical chairs or a Ponzi scheme, you don't want to be left holding the crying baby when the music stops.

There's a vast range of new electric vehicles coming out in the next few years from companies that know how to build them in a high quality way.

Reality will bite shareholders in a major way in the years ahead...its only just started in my opinion.
But but but.... tech company, elon is awesome, it can only go up!

I'll be very surprised if this is the last ramp. I loved the theory that the reason Tesla wasn't added to the S&P 500 was because index fund managers asked them to hold off so they can buy some more stocks before they are forced to add them when it does get added.

[Beagle]

Don't forget that most of the yet to be manufactors will use the Tesla technology, watch the million mile battery presentation later on this month.

Yeah, who cares about fundamentals.

[Beagle]

Don't forget that most of the yet to be manufactors will use the Tesla technology, watch the million mile battery presentation later on this month.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/08/jim-cramer-on-planning-for-a-market-rebound-from-the-sell-off-take-something-off-the-table.html

[Arthur]

About a year ago I took at tiny position in Tesla - cost $49 a share. I'm generally a value investor and felt the recent valuations were excessive, so over the last few months I've sold half my holding at about 5 times what I paid.
Like it or not EVs are going to replace ICE cars, legacy manufacturers (particularly in Germany) have alot of costly baggage. In the test market of Norway EVs are already at 70% of the market. Market share is rapidly increasing in the Netherlands and Germany it is mid teens, in France and UK about 10%.
Renault has the popular Zoe, The Koreans have great little cars and VW will turn up to the party with ID3 and ID4. China is coming to Europe with Polestar and MG.
Here are my predictions so that I can be ridiculed with hindsight....
There will be more than a million EVs sold in Europe (including UK) in 2021
Tesla will increase sales in Europe in 2021, but loose EV market share.
Tesla will sell more than 250,000 cars in China in 2021. The price there will drop as they move towards 100% local, they will sell more than 350,000 Tesla in China in 2022.
Tesla will sell more vehicles in 2023 than BMW.
Tesla will sell more than 150,000 Cybertruck in 2022
Tesla's energy business will rapidly accelerate and generate significant profits within two years.

[Gerald]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/08/jim-cramer-on-planning-for-a-market-rebound-from-the-sell-off-take-something-off-the-table.html

Today: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/09/jim-cramer-on-market-if-you-have-not-bought-maybe-dip-your-toe-in.html

Throwback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9EbPxTm5_s&feature=emb_title

---

TSLA down 20% yesterday, up 10% today. Almost like a roulette table :o

[Beagle]

I wouldn't underestimate the brand power of the likes of BMW, Mercedes Benz and the VW group who are bringing a lot of EV's to the market in the near future. These are aspirational brands that are extremely well known. Very few people keep their cars longer than 15 years so in my view very few care if the battery lasts 1,000,000 miles or 300,000 miles. The Germans are offering 8 year EV battery warranties just like Tesla.

Lots of experts on CNBC this morning saying take some money off the table and sell the bounce. Okay to gamble and speculate as long as your doing it with the House's money, (i.e. sell enough stock to get your original investment back). Makes profound common sense to "free ride" something like this assuming staying in at this level is a good idea at all.

[Arthur]

What car UK, 13,000 owners executive cars reliability
Reliability for executive cars aged up to five years old
Rank Make and model Score
1. Tesla Model 3 2019-on 99.4%
2. Skoda Superb petrol 2016-on 98.3%
3. Mazda 6 2013-on 98.0%
4. Vauxhall Insignia 2008-2017 97.8%
5. BMW 3 Series petrol 2012-2019 97.3%
6. Ford Mondeo 2014-on 97.0%
7. Kia Optima 2016-on 96.7%
8. Audi A3 Saloon 2013-2020 96.3%
9. Volvo V60 2013-on 95.1%
10. BMW 3 Series diesel 2012-2019 95.0%
11. Jaguar XE 2015-on 94.7%
12. BMW 3 Series 2019-on 94.4%
13. Audi A4 petrol 2015-on 93.5%
14. Alfa Romeo Giulia 2016-on 93.1%
15. Skoda Superb diesel 2016-on 93.0%
16. Volkswagen Passat 2015-on 92.1%
17. Audi A4 diesel 2015-on 89.8%

18. Vauxhall Insignia Grand Sport 2017-on 87.4%

19. Mercedes C-Class 2014-on 87.3%

[Arthur]

You are correct Beagle. There is a gush of new EVs coming, but they will eat ICE sales rather than kill Tesla.
The new VW group EV cars make much more sense to many than buying a ICE VW.
Next year I estimate VW ID3/ID4 will take a third of VW Golf sales in the UK (they sold about 60,000 Golf last year).
Take a look at Lucid Air and speculate on which German luxury carmaker is going to loose the most sales in USA.

[Beagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/09/electric-vehicle-start-up-lucid-unveils-air-sedan-to-take-on-tesla.html

I suspect its Tesla that's going to lose more than a few sales. German and American car manufacturing standards are VERY different, (I have owned examples of each).

[Arthur]

I was wondering where Tesla was going to get the estimated 40,000 staff needed over the next few years in Germany from, but I see Daimler alone is looking to loose 30,000. BMW is targeting loosing 16,000, so they might get a few from there and Poland is only about an hour away (Polish workers are already building much of the Drive Unit roof)
https://www.mercedes-fans.de/magazin/news/reduzierung-der-personalkosten-massenentlassung-bei-daimler-30-000-jobs-in-gefahr.16177

[Beagle]

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-promises-double-range-from-game-changing-new-battery/?utm_source=nzh&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=topbox

Surprised the Tesla zealots haven't worked themselves up into a frenzy over this on here already https://www.driven.co.nz/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-promises-double-range-from-game-changing-new-battery/?utm_source=nzh&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=topbox

[Arthur]

Good news Beagle. When you decide to buy a real car you can now order an 1100 horsepower Model S that does 0-100 in 2 seconds and has a 800km range.

[Beagle]

LOL I have a real car. I can "charge" up my fuel tank in 2-3 minutes and have 900 km's range :p

[Arthur]

A number of gamblers and incels (who seem to have expected a free girlfriend with every car) are disappointed and selling out. I might have to buy back in if it drops much. Shanghai is now looking like a million cars a year within a few years, Berlin is not far behind. Texas will be producing next year and Energy is about to go ballistic. The "crazies" (like Ark) are looking more rational every day.

[Arthur]

Can you do that at home? Does it cost $20? Can it drive itself? (work in progress that one LOL)

[Joshuatree]

Beagle seems to have conveniently overlooked his petrolhead carbon footprint here.

For others like me who havnt heard of Incels.. No idea what ARL crazies are though?

Incels (Involuntary celibates) - ADLwww.adl.org › resources › backgrounders › incels-invo... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiPzYiGwf7rAhW59XMBHRzRDZAQFjADegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adl.org%2Fresources%2Fbackgr ounders%2Fincels-involuntary-celibates&usg=AOvVaw3ra7wage_Tk46FEizIpF1C)

[RTM]

LOL I have a real car. I can "charge" up my fuel tank in 2-3 minutes and have 900 km's range :p

I guess you can tow a boat or a caravan as well ?

[Beagle]

Beagle seems to have conveniently overlooked his petrolhead carbon footprint here.

For others like me who havnt heard of Incels.. No idea what ARL crazies are though?

Incels (Involuntary celibates) - ADLwww.adl.org › resources › backgrounders › incels-invo... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiPzYiGwf7rAhW59XMBHRzRDZAQFjADegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adl.org%2Fresources%2Fbackgr ounders%2Fincels-involuntary-celibates&usg=AOvVaw3ra7wage_Tk46FEizIpF1C)

Absolutely not, go and wash your mouth out with carbon free made soap ;) My carbon footprint is beautifully soaked up by all the trees on my property and if I didn't have one they wouldn't grow as well lol
Seriously though...if this battery breakthrough is real and not just creative marketing hype it does look good...all that's left is the "minor" matter of them to start making the rest of the car with decent build quality.

[Arthur]

Beagle seems to have conveniently overlooked his petrolhead carbon footprint here.

For others like me who havnt heard of Incels.. No idea what ARL crazies are though?

Incels (Involuntary celibates) - ADLwww.adl.org › resources › backgrounders › incels-invo... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiPzYiGwf7rAhW59XMBHRzRDZAQFjADegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adl.org%2Fresources%2Fbackgr ounders%2Fincels-involuntary-celibates&usg=AOvVaw3ra7wage_Tk46FEizIpF1C)

ARK investments (a fund manager) are a big Tesla investor. Their base case target is Tesla (post split) is $1400 a share by 2024. Other fund managers have widely ridiculed ARK's targets, but so far ARK has been on the right side of history.

[Arthur]

I guess you can tow a boat or a caravan as well ?

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/buying-a-car/towing-reviews/tesla-model-x-2018-towing-review/

[Beagle]

https://www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/tesla-model-x-74243

Frightening drop in range and that's towing a very modest weight pop top caravan.

[iceman]

LOL I have a real car. I can "charge" up my fuel tank in 2-3 minutes and have 900 km's range :p

I took a Tesla Model 3 for a test drive last weekend. Great acceleration but apart from that, I was underwhelmed and doubt very much it will be seriously considered when I replace my current car next year. Bought a "PowerWall" though !

[Beagle]

I took a Tesla Model 3 for a test drive last weekend. Great acceleration but apart from that, I was underwhelmed and doubt very much it will be seriously considered when I replace my current car next year. Bought a "PowerWall" though !

Bottom line for anyone like you or I that have had the experience of owning a high quality European made car is that apart from the underlying battery and drive systems (you can't see) everything else feels second rate.

You could tow a decent boat or caravan with this, (2,700 kgs) with unlimited range, German assembly standards, nearly 400 horsepower and up to 77 km's electric range, all in a package which is versatile, safe and very comfortable with a 5 year warranty and 3 year service package. I think as I get even more semi retired and want to engage in more lifestyle activities this looks like a very good option. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITjgIYqmrs I am very tempted to have a look.

[k14]

https://www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/tesla-model-x-74243

Frightening drop in range and that's towing a very modest weight pop top caravan.
Yeah unsurprising. As someone who owns a caravan and also has a leaf for my commuter car, I can't see battery technology being able to be applied to my situation for a very long time. Hydrogen seems to be the only solution for all the NZers that tow caravans, horse floats, car trailers or use a campervan. The impact of being able to drive to a remote spot is massive and even the fastest of fast chargers means the journey is so much longer.

[Beagle]

Yeah unsurprising. As someone who owns a caravan and also has a leaf for my commuter car, I can't see battery technology being able to be applied to my situation for a very long time. Hydrogen seems to be the only solution for all the NZers that tow caravans, horse floats, car trailers or use a campervan. The impact of being able to drive to a remote spot is massive and even the fastest of fast chargers means the journey is so much longer.

Bottom line for me at my age is I am looking at recreational activities in my semi retirement years and I don't want a little pokey caravan or boat that was bought to fit into a vehicle's capabilities to tow it. Something like this https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/caravans-motorhomes/caravans/more-than-24-ft/listing/2536841165?bof=ZMhmFxNF
has a ton or room and luxury compared to most motorhomes or caravans but needs a decent vehicle like the BMW I posted a link for above to tow it, (fits within the 2700kg's tow limit). If a caravan or boat of this weight could be towed by the Tesla (max rating 2250 kg's) it would absolutely destroy the range, perhaps to as little as 100 km's :eek2:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12367639

[Arthur]

Like every car, there are a few issues with the Audi Etron (French for "turd", does not sell well there for some reason).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rin-4HRFj4c is a particularly bad experience. Polestar seems to be having issues too, with poor charging and about 2% of them immobilising and unusable. There are many EV haters ready to pounce on this sort of stuff, so hopefully Audi will get its "etron" together.

[Chuckles]

For those interested in investing in Tesla. Please understand that Tesla is not an Automotive company, they are a Technology company. The Tesla cars are just one product that they offer. Their real products are Battery technology design & patents, Energy storage and Software. Many, if not most Wall St analysts don't understand Tesla and their recommendations are short term ie to the next 1/4 only. If you invest in Tesla you need to understand what they actually are and that you enter a position going Long.

Someone mentioned Cathy Woods & Ark Investments above and they are correct. Ark's analysts are ahead of the game looking for long term growth not short term gain to which most mainstream analysts subscribe to. Cathy Woods / Ark have proven themselves as digital age analysts who understand finance and technology.

To finish, Tesla is a Long hold. Buy it and forget about it. If you are short term and you have an appetite for volatility and can stomach the ups and downs then good luck to you.

Again, Tesla is NOT an Automotive company. In the end Tesla will supply the surviving Automotive companies their Batteries and Software much like Microsoft did with Windows.

Happy trading,

Chuckles :)

[Chuckles]

BIG NEWS - Tesla has been slated to be added to the S&P500 on Dec 21, 2020. Post Market up $60 to $463 from $408 close.

[alistar_mid]

been a pretty crazy month, will probably break $700 soon.

My initial $6k investment back in 2019 is now worth just over $60k

[Joshuatree]

BIG NEWS - Tesla has been slated to be added to the S&P500 on Dec 21, 2020. Post Market up $60 to $463 from $408 close.

Down re 5% on its first day in. Too many Traders planning on making a quick buck?

[Joshuatree]

Alot of competition coming ,52 new EV's coming in USA source CNBC .Tesla have alot of IP etc though, leading the pack atpit.For how long?

[Poverty]

Alot of competition coming ,52 new EV's coming in USA source CNBC .Tesla have alot of IP etc though, leading the pack atpit.For how long?

Do you also think tesla's price will go down due to the competition over the next days/weeks/months especially with apples EV coming in?

[Joshuatree]

You'd think so Poverty but the cult of Musk is large and he has a midas touch.Seems priced for perfection and feels too risky at these elevated prices but thats ME and what do i know, zilch really.

[alistar_mid]

Do you also think tesla's price will go down due to the competition over the next days/weeks/months especially with apples EV coming in?

it will surge when Apple fails

People don't get that making a great EV isn't that hard

Making the factories and infrastructure to mass produce it and make it cheaply is the hard part.

And going back to the "making a great EV" bit... this is going to super hard to do given the lead Tesla has. Unless apple someone catches up, and then literally dumps 10's of billions into making plant so they can make those EV's. Thats a fn huge task.

[Chuckles]

Down re 5% on its first day in. Too many Traders planning on making a quick buck?

That may be true, let traders play but the market goes where it wants to go. TSLA Closed today $694 10 days after S&P inclusion.

[Chuckles]

Watch the end of year delivery numbers. They will surpass the 500,000 barrier and will rally to new highs, combined with Cybertruck,the Roadster & the smaller affordable hatchback in 2021/2022 you have the ingredients for $1000+ SP in the next 6 months.

[Chuckles]

Alot of competition coming ,52 new EV's coming in USA source CNBC .Tesla have alot of IP etc though, leading the pack atpit.For how long?

Tesla produce more than EVs, they are primarily a tech company. EVs, HVAC, Solar, Battery storage, etc. The other EV hopefuls will not be able to scale in a timely manner to directly compete with Tesla in the major markets. The worthy competition come from the likes of NIO, Xpeng, Workhorse, Lucid and a few others. Tesla is by far the leader and for the next 10 years, maybe after that things will tighten up.

I'm seeing Tesla taking over 1 or more major automakers in the next 5 years. Lets see what happens, for now as an investment TSLA has treated many very well and there is still plenty of opportunity to profit from the growth of this company and its SP.

Disclosure: I do own TSLA. My opinion is based on my bullish 5-10 year growth forcast, not short term trading spec.

[alistar_mid]

Have you been living under a rock lol.

You think Tesla is going to be valued for its underlying performance rather than its future potential - esp when you extrapolate the turnaround of the last 6 months and look at their feats with stuff like the gigafactory. 10 months - what else can they do.


There is a case for a massive upside still (autonomous driving, their AI tech, mass market adoption of their cars, smashing the pickup truck market, battery tech, and self driving trucks)

Some bull cases are $15k


Well... lets see how well that post ages.


Its only quadrupled since then :laugh:

[Joshuatree]

Ive missed the boat and no way will i invest at these sorts of prices/valuations. As i think i said before a friend has made well into 7 figures in Tesla and its the only stock he holds!. Hes locked it in for another 10 years, not even free carrying it. Im too old to be taking on that sort of double risk.Its more about protecting my assets these days and growing them a little in a low risk way(although i do have small trading portfolio). Each to his own.

[flyer]

so close to 500000 vehicles, only 450 short. Forecasts are for 800k cars in 2021 now. I can only see the share price climbing, it was up 3% overnight with the Dow being down. With GIGA Berlin and Austin due to open in 2021 production could double in 2022 with over 1.5m vehicles being produced. I know the current share price seems high but could well seem cheap when looking back in 2 years time. I'm trying to buy more in weakness but there doesn't seem to be any at the moment. Share price could reach us$1000 his quarter so don't think you have missed the boat.

[whatsup]

One has to wonder where it will stop.

[flyer]

Elon Musk is now the World richest man. Share price closed $816.04 and up another $12.94 after hours. The share price is only going to keep climbing. Sometime this year there could be another share split when/if the price gets to $2000 plus. I watch a video this morning with Jeremy Clarkson test driving a model x, he loved it apart from the price and it beat an Audi V10 in a drag race. Big developments to come in 2021 leading to upscale production in 2022, battery development, reduction in per vehicle price once those factors playout.
Those who think it will be 10 years away that the EV's replace ICE vehicles even here in NZ need to reassess their timelines. I never thought a year ago I would ever own one but liking the new Ford Mustang Mach-E depending on price but if Tesla can produce a modern US$25000 car as per their goal then that would be a world changer.

[alistar_mid]

Elon Musk is now the World richest man. Share price closed $816.04 and up another $12.94 after hours. The share price is only going to keep climbing. Sometime this year there could be another share split when/if the price gets to $2000 plus. I watch a video this morning with Jeremy Clarkson test driving a model x, he loved it apart from the price and it beat an Audi V10 in a drag race. Big developments to come in 2021 leading to upscale production in 2022, battery development, reduction in per vehicle price once those factors playout.
Those who think it will be 10 years away that the EV's replace ICE vehicles even here in NZ need to reassess their timelines. I never thought a year ago I would ever own one but liking the new Ford Mustang Mach-E depending on price but if Tesla can produce a modern US$25000 car as per their goal then that would be a world changer.

Yeah it also represents a bit of a shift in business models and understanding of a company. So many "old school" investment analysts never understood it and likewise a lot of people on this board.

I sold 1/6th of my holding yesterday at 758 and just blown away its now got legs to 830.

[ShouldHaveHeld]

I wish i had bought more shares when I did. Was scared due to everyone saying its going to pop soon etc but every time i waited it went up another few hundred or so. I bit the bullet and just put a little money in. I think people need to realise that Tesla is more than just a motor company, just like how people thought amazon was just a online book company back in the day.

[nztx]

I guess tesla will keep building in value in the meantime but it's still the most insane company of all time...
Tesla does not make money!
Eventually Tesla will get necked right off...


Are you sure it doesn't make money ?

https://ir.tesla.com/

Try P4 & P24 of the latest release (Oct 20 Shareholder PDF)

and that's just the start on growing Qtrly unit deliveries, Revenues, increasing free cashflow etc ..

;)

[Peavey]

I guess tesla will keep building in value in the meantime but it's still the most insane company of all time...
Tesla does not make money!
Eventually Tesla will get necked right off...
I think share price is just riding on the cult of Elon Musk

[stoploss]

Crypto what’s the PE of Bitcoin ?

[Joshuatree]

Wish I'd followed my mates advice and bought a year ago, he's re 1.5 to $2 million up:cursing:t_up::cursing::t_up:

[nztx]

Crypto what’s the PE of Bitcoin ?


more insane than TSLA is probably the answer .. ;)

[nztx]

Tesla makes such an insignificant profit compared to its market capitalisation that you could basically say it doesnt make money...
300 million profit for the quarter compared to 830 billion market cap...
So thats $830,000 million market cap... that's absolutely insane I feel sickkk...
$300 million dollar profit is a slap in the face to investors...


The PE ration is 1740 now...
That means the company has to make its same earnings for the next 1740 years to match it's current market capitalisation it's the most insane number ever ...

A few years ago tesla nearly event bust... most automakers struggle ... tesla still has debt I believe... heaps more competition coming...
Fark geeze find a top peeps then dump those little Teslas they are so hyped it makes crypto look take...shares aren't back by noofin on the balance sheet hoofing.....
Geeze the price of tesla is just so insane I dont even know where to begin...
!!!


Really - "Tesla does not make money!" you posted that - didn't you ? ;)

So now it does make money ?

Does Xero make money ? What's it's PE ?

Or for that matter the most expensive stocks on US market ? ;)

You seem to forget that the market is pricing it's sentiments of TSLA's future
prospects which tend to look like they are better than that rapidly diminishing
supply of new Bitcoin capable of being generated off the chain .. ;)

At least TSLA do something productive which is a long way away from riding
a crypto wave which may or may not produce too much tangible for the ride
and runs risk in places of making itself either extinct due to scarcity or excessively
overpriced due to hyping up accordingly far far worse than TSLA or any other stock .. ;)

Granted Supply & demand equations are at work with both, but recent rapidly
rising bitcoin values seems to now look far more ridiculously over valued than heights
TSLA has reached so far .. just bear in mind that those huge crypto gains attract the full
attention of the taxman wanting his share of the spoils .. not necessarily the case with
TSLA's holders who may see a dividend sometime in future, long after bitcoin has priced
itself out of existence & meaningful patron use .. ;)

[alistar_mid]

Tesla makes such an insignificant profit compared to its market capitalisation that you could basically say it doesnt make money...
300 million profit for the quarter compared to 830 billion market cap...
So thats $830,000 million market cap... that's absolutely insane I feel sickkk...
$300 million dollar profit is a slap in the face to investors...


The PE ration is 1740 now...
That means the company has to make its same earnings for the next 1740 years to match it's current market capitalisation it's the most insane number ever ...

A few years ago tesla nearly event bust... most automakers struggle ... tesla still has debt I believe... heaps more competition coming...
Fark geeze find a top peeps then dump those little Teslas they are so hyped it makes crypto look take...shares aren't back by noofin on the balance sheet hoofing.....
Geeze the price of tesla is just so insane I dont even know where to begin...
!!!


lmao how long has it been and you still don't have a fn clue?

stick to the crypto roulette wheel dude

[alistar_mid]

Really - "Tesla does not make money!" you posted that - didn't you ? ;)

So now it does make money ?

Does Xero make money ? What's it's PE ?

Or for that matter the most expensive stocks on US market ? ;)

You seem to forget that the market is pricing it's sentiments of TSLA's future
prospects which tend to look like they are better than that rapidly diminishing
supply of new Bitcoin capable of being generated off the chain .. ;)

At least TSLA do something productive which is a long way away from riding
a crypto wave which may or may not produce too much tangible for the ride
and runs risk in places of making itself either extinct due to scarcity or excessively
overpriced due to hyping up accordingly far far worse than TSLA or any other stock .. ;)

Granted Supply & demand equations are at work with both, but recent rapidly
rising bitcoin values seems to now look far more ridiculously over valued than heights
TSLA has reached so far .. just bear in mind that those huge crypto gains attract the full
attention of the taxman wanting his share of the spoils .. not necessarily the case with
TSLA's holders who may see a dividend sometime in future, long after bitcoin has priced
itself out of existence & meaningful patron use .. ;)


lol you think crypto kid is going to understand any of that?
- look at his reply, you may as well have been talking to a slab of concrete!

[alistar_mid]

Lol you mad...
Chill buzz...
:cool:cc

hey I can't ever be that mad... I got 30 shares of Tesla in 2019 :)

[Mepco]

New poster to sharetrader but have been watching and trying to learn from it for some time. So much great info and love the banter. My inexperienced thoughts are Tesla is still undervalued, it seems to be way more than just a car manufacturer. Elon Musk may be the Thomas Edison or even Nikola Tesla of the 2020s. Bitcoin I believe will keep going up in value and make holders richer and richer, with a lot of ups and downs along the way. Also I see huge upside in the future for the genomics industry. These areas are im putting my money.

[Chuckles]

I think share price is just riding on the cult of Elon Musk

No, the SP is riding on the future earnings and sentiment of Tesla being the world leader in not only EV's but future tech. The SP is a reflection of the confidence investors have in the company and its financials. Of course who is at the helm of companies make a huge difference and Elon has proven to be an extremely smart and dedicated CEO thus giving investors more certainty in TSLAs future.

As far as TSLA "eventually getting necked", the short sellers have learnt a valuable lesson. DON'T SHORT TESLA.

[Chuckles]

Tesla current earnings for 1740 years equals total shares multiplied by stock price ...
Absolutely beyond insane....
tesla makes all of crypto look like a tame pup....

I have couple of bitcoin myself ONLY to diversify and take a position. Do i believe in Bitcoin? No, not really. It makes no money, has no CEO, no assets, no number to call when things go wrong. Bitcoin and most other Cryptos have little real world use at this time. BUT, for an extremely High Risk, High Reward position it is great.

Crypto makes up a small percentage of my portfolio but treat it as any other investment, if it makes money i'm in.

Tesla on the other hand is an actual investment, people, machinery, factories, products you can see and sell, offices, showrooms etc. Crypto ie: BTC has nothing, it really is very similar to the tulip bubble and making money is pretty much as one user wrote a spin of the roulette wheel.

[Chuckles]

New poster to sharetrader but have been watching and trying to learn from it for some time. So much great info and love the banter. My inexperienced thoughts are Tesla is still undervalued, it seems to be way more than just a car manufacturer. Elon Musk may be the Thomas Edison or even Nikola Tesla of the 2020s. Bitcoin I believe will keep going up in value and make holders richer and richer, with a lot of ups and downs along the way. Also I see huge upside in the future for the genomics industry. These areas are im putting my money.

Agree, you have done some good research :t_up:

[Mepco]

Yes that’s true but still a brilliant man, and maybe Elon will die a broke man as well. But being the world’s current richest person he’s got a wee way to go.

[kiora]

Game changers?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-companies-want-to-charge-your-electric-vehicle-as-you-drive-11610965800?mod=itp_wsj

[nztx]

Eventually Tesla does the full retrace because they just dont make money....
Yesterday Elon Musk messaged about Bitcoin on Twitter and Bitcoin directly rose $4k in response...
But in financial markets numbers eventually speak... Tesla just doesn't have the numbers they never have and probably never will... it will become far more competitive aswell...

When someone tells yah they own Tesla stock, regardless if it performs of not, then straight away you know they are a noob and have no real idea what they are doing with their money....
Luck can only take you so far...
There is no justification for this mcap... there never has been and never will be...
Tesla is just Goodwill and marketing...
It's such a sick proposition it makes crypto look tame
:cool:cc

but they do make money - dont they .. as proven earlier, as they published in accounts .. ;)

P/E is marginally better too .. ;)

must be time to see if there's an available empty truck ..

How's the Bitcoin PE going ? .. ;)

All Bitcoin gains & losses appear to be fully taxable too it seems .. ;)

[James108]

I love Tesla and Elon Musk (even read one of his biographies) but..

Can anyone explain the value proposition of Tesla to me? Even if it was guaranteed to become the biggest car manufacturer in the world (huge IF) surely if you discounted those future cash flows to their value now it would only be worth about what? half of what Toyota or Volkswagon is worth currently? Instead I read the other day it is worth more than the 5 largest car manufacturers combined?

Is it the data they are collecting? Is the bet that they will be first to crack self driving (before google/apple/some chinese company?). Then what? they license their software? Or maybe they just sell the data to other self driving companies? Would that be worth $600B (or whatever gap you think there is between their value as a car maker and their market cap)? how would you quantify what that might be worth?

To me it seems the current value is driven by sentiment/hope but I was wondering for the true believers, how do they justify it?

[Ferg]

Cathie Woods from Ark Investments defends her call for TSLA to be US$4,000 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK5PYDR12jQ
It's 3 minutes 20, so not too long.

She mentions the autonomous taxi network as the prize in that video. I have heard her talk about other disruptive technology from Tesla that also piques her interest. She doesn't view Tesla as a car company, rather she sees it as a disruptive technology company, e.g. batteries. That said, it is still an eye watering PE ratio which requires sales/profit growth to follow an exponential curve to prove her right. I don't hold but I watch it.

[nztx]

I see Elon liked the look of GME after seeing his favourite Hedgie sitting on the other side of the room .. ;)

[James108]

Cathie Woods from Ark Investments defends her call for TSLA to be US$4,000 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK5PYDR12jQ
It's 3 minutes 20, so not too long.

She mentions the autonomous taxi network as the prize in that video. I have heard her talk about other disruptive technology from Tesla that also piques her interest. She doesn't view Tesla as a car company, rather she sees it as a disruptive technology company, e.g. batteries. That said, it is still an eye watering PE ratio which requires sales/profit growth to follow an exponential curve to prove her right. I don't hold but I watch it.

I guess if they were guaranteed to crack self driving first you could justify their current value and she seems to think they are the frontrunner. It seems like that is far from guaranteed though and I'm not convinced they have a chance worth $500B-$600B to do it (although to be fair I have no idea). For instance google seem to think you can't do it with just cameras alone, need to have lidar as well.

Even if they do crack it, presumably they wouldn't be able to manufacture cars fast enough to satisfy demand.. so you wouldn't see fleets of Tesla's? But I presume owning the software is the most valuable part anyway.

[Ferg]

@James108: Being the gatekeeper has a lot of value and I guess that is what they are aiming for. Elon Musk believes LIDAR has its limitations & is power hungry, and prefers instead to rely on cameras with visual input with support from other systems. Time will tell who is right.
Source: https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is-doomed-elon-musk-says/

[James108]

I thought she may have a point that Tesla is the front runner due to the data they have. However, if you have a look on Wikipedia it looks like google is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude further ahead in terms uninterrupted driving time.

Time will tell.. you are right interested to keep an eye on this.

[Entrep]

Curious what the crypto haters and tsla fans think of its purchase of btc? There seem to be plenty of you in this thread

[JBmurc]

Think it was motived to gain another stream of BUYers for his EVs ---VW + Toyota are coming for TESLA

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric-idUSKBN2AA2GT?taid=602452b65f3c08000180af16&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter


https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/02/volkswagen-predicts-100000-id-4-deliveries-this-year/

... I think Tesla SP will fall from here and some of that comes from the company blowing funds on a Crypto play..they are going need all the funds to keep afloat as Tesla models will need updated to keep up the real AUTO makers

[JBmurc]

LOL ...
Cryptocurrency is a revolution that you continue to deny and deny...
Teslas bitcoin purchases are already well in profit and aid the company even though the value of those assets make up a tiny part of the company... it is yet more diversification and more ways to net customers...
To not hold at least some cryptocurrency is just total negligence... Tesla plan to use Bitcoin as a means of payment for vehicles which is totally amazing because this will be the most practical way for me to purchase a vehicle which will eventually be my plan ...
:cool:cc

Good for you see a few small Tesla around Queenstown ...ugly as hell model S look aright but I see Realistically the car has a range of around 365km if fully charged driving in NZ conditions if you take it easy.

.... they certainly have first mover advantage and Cult following yes Buying BTC was a smart move to secure followers of the other Cult two bubbles floating away together till they hit the ceiling fan of reality ...

Good read--https://www.smh.com.au/money/investing/tesla-facing-stiff-headwinds-will-the-share-price-bubble-burst-20210208-p570lg.html

[JBmurc]

JBMurc,
Crypto should excite you more than anything you've ever seen before times 10... I have over 50 different cryptos and most of them have shown unreal returns... are you not watching coinmarketcap...
You must have numbed yourself off to crypto somehow...
Now that we can profit in both bear and bull markets we can easily return 150 times investment by 2025...

What a huge disappointment it is for you to be numbed off by the greatest asset class the world has ever seen...

We have Bill's to pay we are not social workers or councillors...
So if it returns the big big money then I want to know about it !!!!.....

Whatever negative ideas you think of crypto throw them out the window immediately... and buy crypto as soon as possible... this bullmarket lasts this year and it's about as sick as a stockmarket bullmarket of an entire lifetime....


:cool:cc

One could make money selling or making drugs "Breaking Bad" etc but thats not the person I am .

.. I'm sure BTC has been created by the same guys pushing a cashless society and not free money for the people anti the system BS we see pumped --- if it truely was it would have been crushed long ago... but instead every day on CNBC we have pumpers telling us to BUYBUY BUY

. Just ask the guys that were stopped being able to buy US shares--GME along with other companies recently ... or during the GFC when the CFTC stop being able to short the Banks

... or the HUNTs when the same CFTC stopped anyone being able to go long on Silver ,...

But here we go Bitcoin has not only freedom to trade anywhere in many countries but is promoted by "Wall Street"+ MSM as Digital "GOLD" unlike its so called founders white paper




.. freedom of the people is GONE ..negative rates will come every transactions can be

[LaserEyeKiwi]

I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

=====

Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.

[Dassets]

I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.

[Joshuatree]

I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

=====

Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.

Yes its hard to get a handle on Tesla at current prices though, its priced for perfection, its worth more then all the other car makers put together im told. But Tesla is the prime disruptive mover in a market where demand is going to keep exploding upwards especially as Climate Change action becomes essential, being just one reason.Tesla is also a leading edge innovator and has other strings like auto driven and power wall batteries. EV Trucks with big payloads wont be far away and auto driven ones close behind.Scania are well on the way here too, what a huge mkt that will be. Still i cant bring myself to buy at current prices. The current dropping in the Tesla s/p may bring an opportunity.

My friend who ive mentioned is re $3 million up now from Tesla and some ARK K (hold re 10% tesla). If only id acted on his advice year ago id be up 800% or so, sa la vie ATPIT.:sleep:

[Arthur]

I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.

Tesla shorters lost US$38 Billion in 2020 alone, that is about $10 Billion more than Tesla has raised in capital in total.

[JBmurc]

Lasereyekiwi,

You know I have a degree in finance and I'm qualified to give financial advice...

So Tesla are making high gross margins on their cars... whoop de do...
How much net profit are they making...
Actual fluff all...
Tesla don't make money, they earn and sell pollution credits which keep them afloat, they earn credits from the government for producing zero emissions cars..
If you take those credits away they lose money...!!!
Tesla doesn't make enough money to warrant it a profitable company... they produced loser type earnings numbers since the company began.. the sort of profits that a Elon musk fan boy wouldn't even care about anyway... Tesla had earnings per share of 24 cents on a GAAP basis for the quarter that ended Dec. 31, 2020, and 64 cents for the year. Full-year net income was $721 million. Quarterly revenue, led by sales of the company’s Model 3 and Model Y electric vehicles, was $10.7 billion and the annual tally was a best-ever $31.5 billion.

EPS 64 cents for the year $750 share price...
Do you see a problem here fan boy???
...
What happens is US automakers must sell a certain percentage of zero emissions cars...
Or have to buy regulatory credits... Tesla is net positive these credits because it is exclusively electric..
So how much money is this worth?

$3.3 billion over the last 5 years...
In 2020 that amount was worth $1.6 billion...
2020 Tesla net income was only 721 million...
Meaning without these credits Tesla would have a net loss !!!
These credits are interpreted to end in the future...
There is more and more competition for electric cars coming...

Tesla had never made a profit up until 2020 which is still below 1 billion dollars !!!...
For a 800 billion dollar company dude you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by saying wow look at these great gross margins .. LOL 😆

Tesla will get hung out to dry badly and late investors will get burnt the worst...

Tesla has a cult like following and does not even closely warrant its current value ....

I'm always looking for investments and I would struggle to want to pay $100 per share...

Tesla is a looming financial market... ka boom 💥

Well something we agree on CC Tesla is one massive bubble .. like many stocks with Billion caps with nil net profits from operations ...

[JBmurc]

Hey buddy,
If you liked making money then we would agree on everything...
You have really pizzed away a lot of opportunity cost...and your about to get shocked right off...
...

Where has laser eye kiwi gone?
Have they lost their sight and cant see the trees from the woods...
I'm gona always be honest so if that means getting stuck right in then so be it...

I can promise you we don't have to agree for me to make money ...I like to invest in real assets got my eye on another Commercial property 60k+ net income pa ... all goes to plan will buy outright with my 20/21 ASX profit .....

Cashflow is King ... just ask all these Tech Giants announcing losses .... they survive off raising capital with BIG dreams of forward earnings will end in tears...

[James108]

I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

=====

Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.

It appears to be you who does not know how to value a company. All you have to do is look at the valuations of the biggest automakers in the world to see that Tesla is not being valued as a car company. If tesla was going to be as profitable as Toyota or Daimler in 10 years (a BIG call) they should be trading at about half their value currently (using a WACC of say 7% which is quite low). Instead I read their market cap was more than the next 5 largest auto makers combined.

They are obviously being valued as more than a car company (e.g. self driving was brought up earlier...) OR millions of redditors that do not know how to value companies 'like the stonk'.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

It appears to be you who does not know how to value a company. All you have to do is look at the valuations of the biggest automakers in the world to see that Tesla is not being valued as a car company. If tesla was going to be as profitable as Toyota or Daimler in 10 years (a BIG call) they should be trading at about half their value currently (using a WACC of say 7% which is quite low). Instead I read their market cap was more than the next 5 largest auto makers combined.

They are obviously being valued as more than a car company (e.g. self driving was brought up earlier...) OR millions of redditors that do not know how to value companies 'like the stonk'.

What are you on about? I personally made no valuation of the company in my previous post: All I did was explain to you how most Tesla bulls are placing value on the company (its far future profits).

Notice the one thing I did say I expect to happen with the share price: "I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out."
If you really must know, I sold most of my holdings at $811, and the remainder at $700. The risk/reward ratio just didn't stack up at those higher prices for my own personal investing style.

I value each company independently - I don't care what industry they are in: every company should be valued on its own fundamentals. There is no set rule for how a "car company" should be valued. There are a multitude of different type of car companies all with different growth & profitability profiles. some are absolute dogs, some are high margin beasts. For instance there is a reason Porsche is valued at between $50-$100 billion despite the fact it only makes a few hundred thousand cars a year - its because that's what its own profitability and growth profile dictates.

Treating each company differently is why no one values Apple like a computer, phone or tablet manufacturer (these 3 products are notoriously low margin for most companies who make them).

[James108]

You told someone else they didn't know how to value a company then went on to talk about gross margin and operating leverage like it matters at all to their valuation. Their manufacturing capability clearly is not why they are valued so highly. I set out a case why I think their car manufacturing is worth a fraction of their market cap (at best half the value of Toyota, VW, Daimler).

What was the Tesla the market cap when you bought at and how did you ascertain that was fair value or cheaper?

Also Porsche is part of Volkswagen - which has a market cap of $193B Euro. I seriously doubt the porsche segment is worth near the figures you stated and certainly not half the value of volkswagon which includes VW (duh) audi, bentley, lamborghini, Skoda etc. I don't think you have a clue.

[Ferg]

FYI last month Ark amended their target SP for Tesla for 2024 from US$7,000 (dated Jan 2020 (https://ark-invest.com/articles/analyst-research/tesla-price-target/)) to US$3,000 for 2025 (https://ark-invest.com/articles/analyst-research/tesla-price-target-2/).

[Mepco]

There was a 5 for 1 share split around mid 2020 for tesla shares. That means there $7000 price target for 2024 was in fact $1400

[Ferg]

Nice catch. I'm not following it that closely so that would explain what appears to be a decrease is actually an increase. For me the jury is out on such valuations....I have no opinion and no position.

[Dassets]

I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.

From that date of post TLSA (was in market earlier though) S&P up about 10% and TSLA down 10%. Stellantis only the start of more real world pain for TSLA. It has announced no more purchase of credits, circa 300m euro pa(TLSA 2/3rds). This is effectively a no-cost revenue stream for TSLA. Other manufacturers will follow Stellantis next 1-2 years.

Hope TSLA continues to make money long crypto as a replacement for the regulatory credits. Now where is that iceberg I am selling!!

[Arthur]

It will be interesting to see how much Stellantis pay to get out of the pooling contract that FCA have with Tesla. Tesla recorded $518 million in regulatory credits in the most recent quarter, I have seen it mentioned that about $60 million of those were from FCA. VW was a big buyer in China (and expect to be for another 18 months or so). Unfortunately the VW ID3 seems to be selling in low numbers in Europe, hopefully the ID4 will do better.
The European regulators are unhappy about how little mileage those with company PHEV actual do using electricity. It appears most of them almost never plug in, so look to further regulation and reduction of subsidies there.
Let's hope the Legacy car companies do pull their fingers out and stop gifting Tesla all of that money. In the meantime Tesla would be silly to decline their generous contributions.
If Legacy auto don't get it together the Chinese will eat them alive. Volvo. Polestar, MG, Nio and Xpeng and other Chinese car companies are already dipping their toes in the European market.

[Arthur]

As a matter of interest this was in the FCA report for the third quarter of 2020
Regulatory emission credits During the year ended December 31, 2019, FCA entered into multi-year non-cancellable agreements for purchases of regulatory emissions credits in various jurisdictions. At September 30, 2020, these agreements represent total commitments of €0.6 billion, with the related purchased credits expected to be used for compliance years through 2023

[Dassets]

Tesla has suspended acceptance of bitcoin for cars on environmental concerns. The issue that is emerging is that fund redemptions seem to be increasing for guys like Cathy at ARK. This is feeding into selling of other stocks similar in nature. I have seen this before become a real problem.

[ynot]

Tesla has suspended acceptance of bitcoin for cars on environmental concerns. The issue that is emerging is that fund redemptions seem to be increasing for guys like Cathy at ARK. This is feeding into selling of other stocks similar in nature. I have seen this before become a real problem.

Environmental concerns, yea right. Elon is just making it up as he goes along. One minute its bitcoin this, dogecoin that, he's full of it.

[Beagle]

Tesla down over 12% this week and broken down through its 200 day moving average which confirms a new downtrend. Reports are out that their very important Model Y is not selling well in the key Chinese market.

What have ATM shareholders learned about holding shares in a confirmed downtrend in the last 9 months ?

You'd have to be very "brave" to hold Tesla shares now.

[ynot]

Indeed, interesting times ahead for TSLA.

[peat]

Indeed, interesting times ahead for TSLA.

such a classic Elliot Wave Pattern there!!! incredibly perfect.

and that would indicate a correction that could head to 400 and still be a long term bull

[Baa_Baa]

such a classic Elliot Wave Pattern there!!! incredibly perfect.

and that would indicate a correction that could head to 400 and still be a long term bull

The weekly chart shows it quite well. Breakdown here at 43MA - continuation of Wave C - (already 35% off highs [Wave 5]) brings support and Fib 0.618 into play around $370.

[ynot]

The more we see of the real Musk the less credible he appears. In retrospect I cant help but put his success to date down to good luck and a grand imagination. He may have to pull a rabbit or 2 out of his hat to turn his fortune around from here. He and bitcoin/ doge etc deserve everything coming to them.

[Mepco]

I think tesla will do just fine, they are ramping up aggressively and the results will start to be seen next year, good things take time. Supply issues with chips could slow their progress temporarily but its a short term problem. I think the fact crypto crude wants a tesla cyber truck says it all, the younger one I know all want a tesla, they are like an iPhone on wheels

[Arthur]

Ironically Tesla will have to write off over $100 million this quarter due to the speculation on bitcoin. Hopefully Elon is now dabbling with something productive like fixing solar. It will be an interesting quarter with prices, costs and demand all up.

[TeslaGod]

Ironically Tesla will have to write off over $100 million this quarter due to the speculation on bitcoin. Hopefully Elon is now dabbling with something productive like fixing solar. It will be an interesting quarter with prices, costs and demand all up.
Most PMs will not include bitcoin profit and losses in financial statements only mainstream media who are anti Tesla because they don't pay them advertising income.

[TeslaGod]

LOL ...
You think tesla will do just fine...

...
You have to remember that Tesla don't make money..
Selling cyber trucks and new spin offs won't change that no matter how many they sell !!!...

They would have to go scale with the self driving taxi cabs or hold out till they become mainstream...
Or fully eclipse the market with the semi truck (which will revolutionize the market)...
But for what tesla is valued at its still the most overvalued company in history....

Tesla and Elon are all about kick backs... they are taking money for not pumping crypto and taking money for carbon credits...
Elon Musk is just about the biggest traitor to human civilisation as anybody in history...
His antics have cost him half is followers so far he is nearly the most hated person on Earth now he sold us out all for profit and kick backs...
He even supported known crypto scammers on Twitter, which many people lost money too...

He is a snitch !!...

But I have a massive conundrum ...
I love the cyber truck... and I can afford to buy one...
But many people can't....

I just have to honor myself and buy something else...

Elon Musk is a snitch ....
I'll have to correct you on your points

- Tesla had revenue of 10.39 billion and 4.22 net profit margin in March.

_Selling Cyber trucks will increase this profit margin

-They are and are planning to go full self driving with there most updated beta due for release soon, this is a threat to taxi companies worldwide.

-Tesla is selling carbon credits because they will always have businesses that need them.

-Btc is just a store of value for their oversupply of devaluing cash and preference over company bonds

-Many people can't afford a ford ranger but you will be able to purchase the base model of Cyber truck at the same cost as a new For ranger.

-What Elon tweets should have no impact on your decision to buy,invest in crypto I think governments have more say we're crypto is going.

[TeslaGod]

I was happy with over 200,000 deliveries and 206,000 made past quarter this should be great for financials.I wouldn't be surprised with a 10% share price increase over the next few weeks.

[Arthur]

You are right Crypto, it has been a financial nightmare for the shorters.