Martin Jetpack [Archive] - Sharetrader Forum

Pages : [1] 2 3

ari

08-08-2014, 12:34 PM

Okebw

08-08-2014, 01:00 PM

Don't quote me on this but I seem to remember them saying last year that the commercial product would run into the hundreds of thousands to purchase. I don't really see it catching on.

Harvey Specter

08-08-2014, 01:26 PM

Anyone have de ja vu? They've been taking IPO each year since 2010!

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8035-Martin-Jetpack-Maybe-an-IPO-in-the-offing&highlight=Martin

Okebw

10-08-2014, 12:42 PM

I see that Martin is aiming for $5M pre-IPO with an undisclosed amount for an IPO. Yearly losses running at $1.5M with over $20M already invested.

Great if you get inbetween these two periods for a quick trade!

I see that they're aiming for $75M in revenue within 3 years. At $200-250K per unit that's a mere 300-375 units per year. None are yet in production, nor even PRE-production! What ridiculous sales multiple should we ascribe to this one then? PEB scale of say 200? Maybe a little less like 100?

I agree with Morgan. Cook it a few more years and see if it bears any fruit before listing.

I read in an older article yesterday that the retail price will be about 100k. I'll track down the article shortly.

They also seem to be focusing a lot of their effort on government contracts so one would assume that bulk discounts would be at play in their forecasts too.

http://www.ibtimes.com/personal-jetpack-you-can-own-gets-one-step-closer-reality-approved-manned-test-flights-1382931

Whipmoney

10-08-2014, 04:55 PM

Ah so half price then! Jeez, it just gets better...

Thanks for the article okebw ;)

I wouldn't beat it with a barge pole.

She's shortbread.

Okebw

10-08-2014, 05:03 PM

I wouldn't beat it with a barge pole.

She's shortbread.

Agreed. I just can't see why they're focusing so much on emergency services. Except for search and rescue, which isn't really a common enough occurrence to warrant these, how else would they be useful? They can't possibly carry that much equipment and certainly not a struggling criminal or injured patient

lambton

10-08-2014, 07:04 PM

They will make it one day (meaning providing a dividend to investors), perhaps, but IPOing now seems a little early.

lambton

10-08-2014, 07:04 PM

ps what ever happened to my 1000 plus contribtuions???

see weed

11-08-2014, 08:34 AM

Agreed. I just can't see why they're focusing so much on emergency services. Except for search and rescue, which isn't really a common enough occurrence to warrant these, how else would they be useful? They can't possibly carry that much equipment and certainly not a struggling criminal or injured patient

I would prefer a helicopter rescue than get my arse burnt off on a jetpack. Mind you, nothing a bit of A2 could'nt fix.

Harvey Specter

11-08-2014, 09:48 AM

I would prefer a helicopter rescue than get my arse burnt off on a jetpack. Mind you, nothing a bit of A2 could'nt fix.You do realize they aren't actually jetpacks (misleading advertising?). They are just two small helicopters inside housings.

They need to move fast as there is no reason larger quad copters wont be a competitor (I can already buy a small one for $100 at the local mall).

RGR367

11-08-2014, 11:00 PM

............. They need to move fast as there is no reason larger quad copters wont be a competitor (I can already buy a small one for $100 at the local mall).

This invention was a story with a very good opening when it was first told. But that's all it got, a good promise tempered so long you got tired hearing about it.

robbo24

12-08-2014, 12:14 AM

I would prefer a helicopter rescue than get my arse burnt off on a jetpack. Mind you, nothing a bit of A2 could'nt fix.

Let's see your beloved helicopter fly directly up to the window of a burning high rise building and fly you safely down.

I can see it now... "No, I'm not going to get on that thing. You'll have to find another method of rescuing me."

I guess you never heard the sound of bodies raining down on the sidewalk in and around 9/11? Have a listen some time.

Edit: Here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9QN3AkydYY

robbo24

12-08-2014, 12:24 AM

Couldn't help it...6127

minimoke

13-08-2014, 09:51 PM

The maker of the Martin Jetpack is planning to list, most likely on the New Zealand and Australian stock exchanges.

A spokeswoman for the technology firm told the Herald the company was looking to raise $5 million in pre-IPO capital and a further $25 million through the listing.

Watched this progress from the beginning, but still think my investment in Snakk is safer!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11305899
Why on earth start a new thread? This widow maker has been done to death on the other thread. Nothing has changed, just the same old same old trotted out each year from someone in the back shed

minimoke

13-08-2014, 10:06 PM

Let's see your beloved helicopter fly directly up to the window of a burning high rise building and fly you safely down.

I can see it now... "No, I'm not going to get on that thing. You'll have to find another method of rescuing me."

I guess you never heard the sound of bodies raining down on the sidewalk in and around 9/11? Have a listen some time.

Edit: Here you go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9QN3AkydYY
What an app as long post, at so many levels!

If you are going to spruik this thing you might want to explain how it's going to benefit 9/11 type events with a 100 kg payload, 30 minute flight time and with a pilot who still needs his hands on the controls

robbo24

13-08-2014, 11:13 PM

What an app as long post, at so many levels!

If you are going to spruik this thing you might want to explain how it's going to benefit 9/11 type events with a 100 kg payload, 30 minute flight time and with a pilot who still needs his hands on the controls

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-controlled_aircraft

robbo24

13-08-2014, 11:17 PM

ari

14-08-2014, 11:38 AM

Why on earth start a new thread? This widow maker has been done to death on the other thread. Nothing has changed, just the same old same old trotted out each year from someone in the back shed Apologies minimoke, my initial search did not turn up previous thead...besides it gives you something to winge about, hence we have a forum!

minimoke

14-08-2014, 08:31 PM

100kg + fuel + pilot = 330kg max take off weight

Just chill out man, you don't have to ride the jetpack down to safety... Or be plucked from a rip in the tide... Or whatever. You can cross your arms and sulk about it and demand a helicopter... HAHA
Having been in a wrecked building as well as rescuing a person in a rip i know where I'll put my faith. And it sure isn't in a jet pack. A jet pack rescue is a thing of comic book fantasy. Long may it stay there

Onion

23-08-2014, 11:53 AM

There will be plenty of competition for the jetpack -- and some look cheaper and simpler. Take this as an example (from an expat Kiwi), using the existing concepts from your standard toy copter:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/10416418/Hoverbike-reaches-new-heights and http://www.hover-bike.com/MA/.

Estimated cost? About the cost of a SUV -- a lot cheaper than the Martin Jetpack.

robbo24

24-09-2014, 11:58 PM

robbo24

12-10-2014, 08:57 PM

So... Other than moving into a new premises suitable for commercial production (http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/150-martin-aircrafts-new-headquarters), Martin Jetpack are seeking preliminary indications of interest from persons would like a copy of the prospectus (https://events.miraqle.com/Martin-Aircraft-Offer/Validation/?ReturnUrl=%2fMartin-Aircraft-Offer%2fPre-registration-form%2f).

Martin Jetpack are planning to list on the ASX, according to the website:

Martin Aircraft Company Limited (Company) is a New Zealand company (NZ Company Number 901393) which is developing the Martin Jetpack for use as a first responder vehicle and an unmanned air vehicle. The Company is considering an initial public offer (Offer) of fully paid ordinary shares in the Company (Shares) and listing on the Australian Securities Exchange and is seeking preliminary indications of interest from investors who would like to obtain a copy of the prospectus for the Offer when it becomes available.

Haters on this forum will be turning down rescue by a Martin Jetpack in the face of certain death in no time! :D:D:D:D:D:D

minimoke

13-10-2014, 01:50 PM

Robbo24;497853. You are a bit behind the times. I'd have thought you would have reminded us of the high net worth capital raising sucess. Good to see their money going to flash new premises and the stereotypical blond on reception.

Anyway, if you track this company you'll see their annual "about to launch ipo" reports. Remember August last year? If not, then that was about an ipo on the nzX. Go back on this thread for earlier announcements.

You can also see they were saying they could manufacture 500 units a year from their Woolston factory. But no. Let's spend the loot on something flash in wigram. Apart from a gantry crane seems like little plant or racking there yet in preparation of their 2015 manufacturing vision

robbo24

13-10-2014, 02:05 PM

minimoke

13-10-2014, 02:51 PM

Not sure how to respond...

"A brilliant analysis, thank you for sharing?" :confused:
no response required. History says you'll be having exactly the same conversation in a years time.

But in case confusion remains this idea has a very long history of possive progress ahead but remains consistent in its failure to deliver.

All that is happening is a few big noters throwing in a few bucks and Glenn is going from a back shed to a garage to a bigger shed in Woolston and now an even bigger shed in wigram. Sales are not increasing at the same rate of shed size.

Did you ask Michael speck and james bowket why they saw no future in Martin AC?

robbo24

13-10-2014, 03:03 PM

Did you ask Michael speck and james bowket why they saw no future in Martin AC?

Yeah they said there was no blondie on the front desk.

That's no longer a problem though, as you so aptly point out :D:D:D:D:D

minimoke

13-10-2014, 03:45 PM

That makes sense. Much better to have someone on the front desk to handle all those walk in sales enquiries than have any manufacturing plant or assembly equipment in the shed.

They must be very busy to have an administration person! I hear it takes a bit to organise cleaners, a gardener, critical supplies like smoko coffee and to keep the board room tidy.

Good to see after 33 years in development Glenn now needs an administrator. Like the cheese ad "good things take time"

Harvey Specter

13-10-2014, 04:33 PM

That makes sense. Much better to have someone on the front desk to handle all those walk in sales enquiries than have any manufacturing plant or assembly equipment in the shed. Lets just hope those walk in sales dont look out the back as they may realize that delivery is a bit further away than promised.

minimoke

29-10-2014, 02:38 PM

Well more disappointment. In the Feb 2014 investor document martin reckons on the release of the first commercial jetpack in 2014.

In the prospetcus released today to Australians for an ipo they now reckon to deliver first jetpack in 2016.

Goes to show the importance of doing your own research and seeing if any promises are actually delivered on.

No wonder this is a " specurative" punt.

robbo24

29-10-2014, 03:05 PM

Well more disappointment. In the Feb 2014 investor document martin reckons on the release of the first commercial jetpack in 2014.

I'm sure you said they weren't going to file any prospectus though minimoke. You don't like anything to do with this company, seems to me to be an unreasonable level of hatred without much justification :D:D:D:D I see you're from Christchurch, did they do noise testing near your place or something? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Reasons minimoke doesn't like Martin Jetpack:

1) It's speculative
2) They will never actually list
3) "Broken promises"
4) Minimoke will never ever use one even if it offers to save his life
5) Noise testing near his house?

robbo24

29-10-2014, 04:14 PM

You can get a copy of the prospectus from here: www.martinjetpack.com/offer

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

BFG

29-10-2014, 04:39 PM

Harvey Specter

29-10-2014, 05:02 PM

Not a bad offer if they can raise the required $25M and keep the mCap just above $125M with orders to boot. I see they have a nice pipeline of products as well, just like a PEB checklist.

If I ever get a ride on one I will be muchos :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :DThats is a huge market cap for an product not avaliable for sale that competes against two products:
- one 50% more expensive but with more range, speed, lifting capacity etc (ie. a helicopter (admit-ably a cheap one but this the jet pack is just a even more basic version)
- one 1% - 100% of the cost with similar features except lifting capacity (ie. drones)

They say it will be great for first responder's but given its limited range, you will need to transport it close to the site on a truck and trailer (eliminating the cost benefit) compared to just flying there in a helicopter (which will have a speed benefit compared to a truck and trailer). For ones stationed on site (say for lifeguard duties), why not just get a drone and a jet ski/RIB at less than half the price with longer operating time and capacity.

Skol

29-10-2014, 05:05 PM

Rich people will probably kill themselves with them.

They often do with helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, can't see why this would be any different.

robbo24

29-10-2014, 05:11 PM

Thats is a huge market cap for an product not avaliable for sale that competes against two products:
- one 50% more expensive but with more range, speed, lifting capacity etc (ie. a helicopter (admit-ably a cheap one but this the jet pack is just a even more basic version)
- one 1% - 100% of the cost with similar features except lifting capacity (ie. drones)

They say it will be great for first responder's but given its limited range, you will need to transport it close to the site on a truck and trailer (eliminating the cost benefit) compared to just flying there in a helicopter (which will have a speed benefit compared to a truck and trailer). For ones stationed on site (say for lifeguard duties), why not just get a drone and a jet ski/RIB at less than half the price with longer operating time and capacity.

Good points articulately made.

I agree with your comments about mCap and the likes but am a bit more hesitant to say that helicopters are direct competition.

On paper, at least, the MJ can do things a helicopter cannot and it runs on petrol.

I don't think the MJ is aimed to replace the utility of a helicopter, nor do I think the same of replacing a drone with a GoPro. It's effectively a novel thing... Use your imagination :)

I would gladly take a ride from a burning building or sinking ship.

minimoke

29-10-2014, 07:27 PM

You don't like anything to do with this company, seems to me to be an unreasonable level of hatred without much justification :D:D:D:D
I'm sure if there was something to admire I would. Let me think for a moment. Hmmm - no nothing comes to mind. No - I think it actually looks kind of cool but beyond that Im drawing a blank. No hatred at all - seems to me a pointless exercise in which people with more cash than sense will see their money disappear. If they read thsi thread they at least wont be able to say they weren't warned. into.

I see you're from Christchurch, did they do noise testing near your place or something? :D:D:D:D:D:D Not too far away from Air NZ engineering so on a quiet night I'm well used to teh engine testing noise

Reasons minimoke doesn't like Martin Jetpack:

1) It's speculative Nope I have no issue whatsoever with teh speculative nature of this offering. Lwt teh buyer beware I reckon

2) They will never actually list There is a faint possibility that they will list. I'm never amazed at how easy it is to take peopels money from them. Though they may find it hard this time around. They have allre ady tapped teh high rollers who wont miss a few bob. Now its up to retail investors. the Australian economy isnt that flash so I dont think there is so much spare cash floating around with will speculatiors. That said theres a sucker born ever minute - so there could well be enough time over the next month or so.

3) "Broken promises" yes you have me there. They have a very long history of development and are consistent in their failure to deliver anything to market. But I guess that's teh nature of this beast - it took so long to get from Glens back shed to his garage and then into a bigger garage and now into an even biiger one - all they seem to be doing is increasing the size of the garage.

4) Minimoke will never ever use one even if it offers to save his life. Darn right there. I wouldnt even want my mother in law rescued by one!

5) Noise testing near his house? Its not noisier than jet engines is it. Actually come to think of it I think it might be.

minimoke

29-10-2014, 07:35 PM

I would gladly take a ride from a burning building or sinking ship.
Two wee problems I can see.
1) 120kg payload would see you struggling to lift off from a burning building with a good chance you'll plummet to the ground below.
2 Flight time of 30 minutes may see the jetpack arrive at your sinking ship. It may even leave your sinking ship. But it wont get to shore

robbo24

29-10-2014, 08:52 PM

Two wee problems I can see.
1) 120kg payload would see you struggling to lift off from a burning building with a good chance you'll plummet to the ground below.
2 Flight time of 30 minutes may see the jetpack arrive at your sinking ship. It may even leave your sinking ship. But it wont get to shore

Payload seems to be 100kg in addition to fuel, equipment and a pilot. You must be an enormous dude if it can't lift you without a pilot or equipment when it is remote controlled lol... http://www.martinjetpack.com/technical :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I'm sure it could ferry you off your sinking boat and onto any old boat. Most boats don't have room for a helicopter and most helicopters don't fly into the middle of the ocean. You want someone to jump in and swim you out of the water? Lol, I think even your mother in law has more sense than that.

BFG

29-10-2014, 09:27 PM

I reckon selling 1000 units would put it on a PE of 1. Seems like an absolute steal. Perhaps Handley could provide some Snakk oil to lubricate those hardworking engines? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

robbo24

29-10-2014, 09:46 PM

I reckon selling 1000 units would put it on a PE of 1. Seems like an absolute steal. Perhaps Handley could provide some Snakk oil to lubricate those hardworking engines? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Lol if they sell 1000 "first responder" or, as could be the case, "military" jetpacks at $200k a pop then 1000 units would be PE ratio of 0.5.

LOL :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Xerof

29-10-2014, 09:46 PM

As stated on the old thread, this IPO will take off like a rocket

oops

6426

robbo24

29-10-2014, 10:18 PM

As stated on the old thread, this IPO will take off like a rocket

It's got to go up before it does that, kind of like XRO.

Xerof

30-10-2014, 03:42 PM

Keep current robbo. The depicted rocket exploded yesterday in Virginia, a few metres after leaving the launchpad, much in line with my thoughts on what will happen to this IPO

On the other hand, the XRO rocket has taken off, gone to the moon, and is returning to earth

:scared:

robbo24

30-10-2014, 03:43 PM

whatsup

03-11-2014, 03:16 PM

Rich people will probably kill themselves with them.

They often do with helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, can't see why this would be any different.

Sadly after Virgins weekend disaster Im thinking that Jetpack has the kiss of death about it now !!

robbo24

03-11-2014, 04:08 PM

Sadly after Virgins weekend disaster Im thinking that Jetpack has the kiss of death about it now !!

Why's that? I'm interested to understand your reasoning.

Harvey Specter

03-11-2014, 04:13 PM

Sadly after Virgins weekend disaster Im thinking that Jetpack has the kiss of death about it now !!Its not as if the jetpack is a nitros oxide powered jet engine. It is just an avgas powered twin motor-mower with the rotors turned the other way.

robbo24

03-11-2014, 04:23 PM

If people stopped doing things because someone died as a result, what would be left to do?

whatsup

03-11-2014, 05:01 PM

Why's that? I'm interested to understand your reasoning.

RISK most people are not thrill seekers atm.

BFG

03-11-2014, 05:09 PM

RISK most people are not thrill seekers atm.

I heard one is...

http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic645077.jpg

Schrodinger

07-11-2014, 12:01 PM

robbo24

07-11-2014, 01:25 PM

All you pumpers need to get in now to let them build a prototype. They only need $25M to produce 1 jetpack how hard can it be. Once sales hit 1,000 per year we can call it our own Boeing/Grumman. This is the next big thing!

They need $10m to list. A few months ago they were looking for $5m and got oversubscribed to $6.5m from a private capital raising :D:D:D:D

I don't think getting over the mark will be too much of a problem :D

BFG

07-11-2014, 01:29 PM

Harvey Specter

07-11-2014, 01:55 PM

They need $10m to list. A few months ago they were looking for $5m and got oversubscribed to $6.5m from a private capital raising :D:D:D:D

I don't think getting over the mark will be too much of a problem :DThats no doubt why they have gone to the Australian market. Much bigger with deeper pockets and dont know that they have been singing the same song for the past 3+ years.

Lets hope they do well, and are able to make a large viable business in NZ, even if it is backed by Aussie money.

robbo24

07-11-2014, 02:34 PM

The real meat on the bone is for those who bought in during the private capital raising :D

robbo24

18-11-2014, 11:36 PM

Ohhhhh coooooool... Man who would have thought there to be potential defense applications of the MJP.

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25546237/martin-jetpack-partners-with-airborne-first-responder-avwatch/

Oh I mean "First Responder," woops.

robbo24

18-11-2014, 11:39 PM

Woahhhhh, cool, AVWatch is so mint: https://www.chds.us/?pr&id=2508

BFG

19-11-2014, 07:21 AM

Think we could see an application within the legal community? Lawyers in jetpacks chasing ambulances? Nice! :D :D :D :D :D

robbo24

19-11-2014, 08:49 AM

Think we could see an application within the legal community? Lawyers in jetpacks chasing ambulances? Nice! :D :D :D :D :D

More like a flying rape-whistle to scare away Moosie_900 with his profile avatar...

BFG

19-11-2014, 06:12 PM

Martin on 3News now

Schrodinger

20-11-2014, 01:41 PM

Any word on their anti power lines collision system?

robbo24

20-11-2014, 01:45 PM

Any word on their anti power lines collision system?

The same type as helicoptors, planes, microlites, trucks, cherry pickers, ladders, tall people, etc.

minimoke

25-11-2014, 03:19 PM

robbo24

26-11-2014, 02:17 PM

Got to love the humour brokers have. Craigs Investment Partners have had no uptake from NZers saying" it's an area for investors who want to take a very high risk gamble on something that may or may not take off" ha ha.

None of Hamilton Hindon green investors are interested either - though they aren't promoting it as it is outside their risk profile.

Coker now says no sales expected until mid next year.

What I do find interesting is that Coker says they have made no sales yet. But I am sure in previous releases they have said there are orders on the books and loads of interest.

Coker also says there is loads of interest in this IPO (which seems a bit at odds with the previous cash raising with only 40 investors putting their hands up) but I suppose we'll have to wait til Monday to find out.

Indeed, it is a curious company and a curious IPO.

Investors aren't going to be (probably never going to be) your average "Mum and Dad" or prudent brokering firm.

I have met Mr Coker - he's an OK guy, very friendly. I note his comments in another article: (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/63516188/jetpack-company-martin-aircraft-prepares-for-ipo) (and the later one you refer to (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63538766/jetpack-ipo-high-risk-if-it-doesnt-take-off--brokers))

However, Martin Aircraft chief executive Peter Coker said all the indications were that there was substantial interest in the shares and a fair amount from New Zealand. The offer could well be oversubscribed, he said.

I agree with you minimoke that the total number of investors was small in the private capital raising, but it did raise AU$6.5m. That's just over a quarter of what they seek to raise in a full IPO with prospectus and international media/advertising coverage.

In the same article as above, Martin Allison notes that the float is tiny.

Martin Allison, a client adviser at sharebrokers Craigs Investment Partners in Auckland, said he had not had any interest from his clients. "It's a tiny float and it's highly speculative," Allison said. "It's an area for investors who want to take a very high risk gamble on something that may or may not take off."

I agree with Mr Allison - it is a small float. A small float for a highly speculative product, but one that could be enormous. That may lend itself to significant interest from people willing to part with some of their large piles of money to get a piece of the tiny float at the earliest opportunity available to them.

I believe there may have been mention of a few MOUs/HOAs out there, which cannot (of course) be called "sales" in any event. Certainly the company has mentioned on many occasions that there are expressions of interest from various sectors.

Here's a video I found this morning (https://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/nz-jetpack-takes-leap-onto-australian-stock-exchange-video-6165608), too.

It's still not too late to sign up for the IPO (https://events.miraqle.com/Martin-Aircraft-Offer/Validation/), minimoke :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

trackers

26-11-2014, 04:30 PM

psychic

26-11-2014, 07:15 PM

Sorry. Gotta say I watched the vid and immediately fell about the floor laughing. Bought an outboard motor once that screamed its head off to no great effect and went nowhere like that gay Jetpack. Lol. How much??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ii__3Pt5hY

robbo24

26-11-2014, 11:06 PM

These guys bought a jetpack into work recently; I'm gutted I missed it.

I don't know a huge amount it, but I've got a feeling a lot of the risk revolves around how the 'device' is classified around the world? For example, if its designated as a light aircraft instead of a (motor) vehicle, the barriers to ownership and practicality rise dramatically?

Very true, to some degree covered in prospectus. Here are some highlights for your convenience:

5.4 FIRST TARGET MARKET

Taking into consideration the capabilities outlined above the Company will be seeking initial customers in the First Responder market under the context of “saving human lives”. Many of the First Responder agencies are government sponsored (for example fire, police and border security). The advantages of seeking them as our first customer are:

It should be easier to gain dispensation for operating outside normal commercial Microlight rules. For example, the Company understands that in some countries Microlight leisure aircraft are required to avoid flying over built up areas. However, those aircraft that have a first responder role are frequently allowed to operate in such domains. An example is the air ambulance helicopters of ten seen landing in parks as close as they can to the incident to which they are at tending.

The Company understands that any Crown or Federal entities self insure their assets thus potentially reducing cost of ownership.

The Mar tin Jetpack is suitable for operating in confined spaces and urban environments. As an example an initial meeting was held with a specific Fire Department in the USA that operates in dense urban conditions. They indicated that they had recently been given permission to operate drones in their environment but this was technically challenging from both a line of sight and control perspective. A manned Jetpack could be very suitable for such a situation.

The Company has received a number of inquiries from equivalent entities including Police, Homeland Security and Fire services.

These agencies also have an ethos of looking after equipment well and working in partnership with the original equipment manufacturers both of which will allow the Company to build a solid knowledge base of aircraft operations data.

6.0 Aviation Industry Overview

The Martin Jetpack is a registered aircraft in New Zealand under Civil Aviation Authority.

It is classified as a Microlight, and has been approved to fly manned and unmanned in New Zealand. The Martin Jetpack represents a new aircraf t capabilit y in the global aviation industry, which encompasses civil, general aviation and military. Although the novelty of Martin Jetpack makes it dif ficult to delineate accurately the extent of global market potential, an overview of the industry as well as identified markets indicates possible sales areas.

7.12.1 International Permits

The Company’s approach to permits in other countries is based upon leveraging the permits already approved within New Zealand. The Company understands that some countries will allow a direct transfer of permits based upon the New Zealand permits; other countries may require more of a specific approvals process including the inspection of the aircraf t prior to issuing permanent country registration.

This follows normal practice across the aviation industry particularly for Microlight, Ultralight and Sports Aircraft. The Director of Flight Operations will be the key executive in the Company responsible for liaising with potential customer’s aviation regulatory authorities. Approvals mapping requirements will take place early in 2015.

There is a lot of information in the prospectus, funnily enough.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

BFG

27-11-2014, 07:10 AM

minimoke

27-11-2014, 07:40 AM

It's still not too late to sign up for the IPO (https://events.miraqle.com/Martin-Aircraft-Offer/Validation/), minimoke :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
When the end of my life comes I think it will be highly unlikely I'll be regretting not making my fortune by not buying into this ipo. That is, of course, unless I happen to be trapped in a burning building at the time.

Harvey Specter

27-11-2014, 08:59 AM

Ads for prospectus turning up on NBR. Looks like MJP has its own Stig. Could it be Rob under that helmet?

“Some say that his politics are terrifying, and that he once punched a horse to the ground. All we know is he’s called the Robo.”I am getting a lot of spam emails for it. My guess is they are struggling or they woundn't be paying for the mailing lists.

robbo24

27-11-2014, 09:34 AM

I am getting a lot of spam emails for it. My guess is they are struggling or they woundn't be paying for the mailing lists.

I'm pretty sure they pay various companies to control these types of things. You're probably being targetted by Snakk as we speak.

You guys wouldn't be seeing these advertisements if MJP (and other related) cookies were not stored on your browser.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

fungus pudding

27-11-2014, 10:30 AM

When the end of my life comes I think it will be highly unlikely I'll be regretting not making my fortune by not buying into this ipo. That is, of course, unless I happen to be trapped in a burning building at the time.

That won't matter as long as plenty of others have contributed to save your bacon.

No offence but that's not compelling to me at all. :D:D:D

minimoke

27-11-2014, 10:37 AM

That won't matter as long as plenty of others have contributed to save your bacon.

No offence but that's not compelling to me at all. :D:D:D
no offence taken. It's a conundrum. Take a leap of faith buying into the IPO. Or a leap of fAith off a burning building and onto a jet pack. Or a leap of faith just leaping.

The latter two aren't a problem for me since I don't do high buildings any more. But something for others to consider.

robbo24

28-11-2014, 09:00 AM

Interesting article about the industry, Martin Jetpack and the IPO: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/drone-hype-prompts-new-aviation-nz-division-cs-p-165927

robbo24

28-11-2014, 11:56 AM

Here's an article for minimoke :D: http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/techflash/2014/11/mass-company-aims-to-commercialize-a-jetpack-for.html

In 2016, Plymouth-based tech company Avwatch Inc. (http://www.avwatch.us/) will begin testing how a gas-powered, 380-pound jetpack could rescue people from burning buildings.

Avwatch founder and president Chris Kluckhuhn (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/search/results?q=Chris%20Kluckhuhn), a former U.S. Coast Guard rescue pilot who founded the real-time situational awareness technology company in 2008, is particularly interested in how a jetpack could have helped would-be survivors atop the World Trade Center buildings during the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

minimoke

28-11-2014, 12:54 PM

Harvey Specter

28-11-2014, 01:27 PM

More importantly this appears to be a $1m confirmed order for 3 martin jetpacks. Did I miss this in the ipo documents? Seems important as this American company seems to have plans for taking over Martin - or at least taking over the functons martin is raising money for.I think it has only just been announced. I assume they plan to be the (exclusive) US sales agent (?) as opposed to taking over the company.

It will be interesting to see if the sale of 3 units is for cash or some form of contra as I assume they will be demo models.

robbo24

28-11-2014, 02:00 PM

More importantly this appears to be a $1m confirmed order for 3 martin jetpacks. Did I miss this in the ipo documents? Seems important as this American company seems to have plans for taking over Martin - or at least taking over the functons martin is raising money for.

The deal also includes a simulator and some other odds and ends such as training.

Look on the bright side, even if the IPO is oversubscribed MJP with $1m will have a lower revenue-to-price than PEB :D

minimoke

28-11-2014, 03:01 PM

I think it has only just been announced. I assume they plan to be the (exclusive) US sales agent (?) as opposed to taking over the company.
ok, now that I have secured my tin foil hat I'm ponderring the benifits of martin partnering with a service disabled veteran owned small business which gets its funding from the US government via department of defence contracts.

Avwatch only has revenue of around $2m so I figure this has to be some kind of " in kind" arrangement which will see martin bearing the cash cost in exchange for exposure to US military.

robbo24

29-11-2014, 12:51 AM

ok, now that I have secured my tin foil hat I'm ponderring the benifits of martin partnering with a service disabled veteran owned small business which gets its funding from the US government via department of defence contracts.

Avwatch only has revenue of around $2m so I figure this has to be some kind of " in kind" arrangement which will see martin bearing the cash cost in exchange for exposure to US military.

Great news if you didn't have time to sign up following your revelation:

The Initial Public Offering ("IPO") for Martin Aircraft Company Limited (“Martin Aircraft”or “Company”) was due to close today; however, Martin Aircraft is in ongoing discussions with a potential significant investor into the IPO, and while there is no guarantee that the investor will ultimately subscribe for shares, the Board considers it prudent in the circumstances to extend the offer for a further two weeks to allow these discussions to continue.

The IPO will now close at 5.00pm (Sydney time) on Friday 12 December 2014. However, the Company reserves the right to further extend the IPO, to vary the terms of the IPO, or to close the IPO early or at any time without further notice to any applicants. The Company will advise the revised issue date for shares, date for despatch of holding statements and ASX listing date once the IPO closes.

It is the Board’s current intention to immediately close the IPO if the significant investor subscribes for shares during the extended period. Martin Aircraft is offering up to 50 million Shares at an issue price of A$0.50 / NZ$0.55 per Share to raise up to A$25.0 million.

A copy of the prospectus can be down loaded at www.martinjetpack.com/offer (https://events.miraqle.com/Martin-Aircraft-Offer/Validation/)

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

robbo24

29-11-2014, 12:56 AM

It is the Board’s current intention to immediately close the IPO if the significant investor subscribes for shares during the extended period.

Actually, this is probably minimoke.

minimoke

29-11-2014, 09:33 AM

Great news if you didn't have time to sign up following your revelation:

The trouble I see with IPO's is you need a bit of coin to participate. The trouble with coin is that it has two sides. You obviously see the positive side. I see the other.

So lets recap on what we know. The Avwatch transaction is "inked" meaning it is a done deal. It can’t be for a $1m cash sale under terms - I would have thought a sale like this would be something material and should be disclosed to the market - it hasn’t been. So we can only conclude it is some kind of arrangement where Martin build 3 jetpacks and a simulator, ship them to the States, provide some technical support n exchange for something else. That "something" we don't know but for a mil I reckon it ought to be disclosed.

One thing we can be certain about – the Jetback is not being looked at by US Military as part of its Stealth programme.

We also know that the IPO has been significantly under subscribed. How do we know this? Well, there are 50 million shares on offer. A "Significant investor" is going to want a "Significant" stake. We don’t know what this but how about we call it 25% or around 12m shares, at least, not taken up so therefore undersubscribed.

Do we have confidence this deal will go ahead. No! Why not. Because significant investors have already had a chance to drop some cash into this company not so long ago. So chances are the Investor didn’t like the look of Martin back then at that price. So why would they want to pay more now?

I reckon this is a smoke screen as they rattle around trying to get takers to take a bit more.

robbo24

29-11-2014, 11:38 AM

I reckon this is a smoke screen as they rattle around trying to get takers to take a bit more.

Possibly, but that is just one narrative my friend.

There's lots of things at play. Existing shareholders get first in line. There may have to be some rodgering and shucking to fit a new "big boy" into the fold.

If the IPO was undersubbed then I sincerely doubt the announcement yesterday would be what it was.

Wait and see :) The clock is ticking!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

robbo24

29-11-2014, 12:14 PM

Do we have confidence this deal will go ahead. No! Why not. Because significant investors have already had a chance to drop some cash into this company not so long ago. So chances are the Investor didn’t like the look of Martin back then at that price. So why would they want to pay more now?

Here's some more information for you minimoke: http://businessnow.theaustralian.com.au/2014/11/28/martin-aircraft-extends-ipo-for-offshore-investor/

The investor approached Martin Aircraft about 10 days ago, and then requested to have more time to assess the opportunity.

The board intends to close the IPO immediately if the investor decides to invest during the extended period, the company added.

Martin Aircraft did not disclose the identity of the investor, but it is understood to be an overseas-based company which will likely commit a significant amount of investment.

Martin Aircraft also expects to use this investor’s statement as a strong statement to the market, trying to persuade investors with a solid investment thesis in an IPO that is meant to commercialize its Martin Jetpack.

Get your IPO acceptance letter in now before it's too late!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

minimoke

29-11-2014, 01:18 PM

Here's some more information for you minimoke: http://businessnow.theaustralian.com.au/2014/11/28/martin-aircraft-extends-ipo-for-offshore-investor/

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Well someone has balls. Fancy saying "Martin Aircraft also expects to use this investor’s statement as a strong statement to the market, trying to persuade investors with a solid investment thesis in an IPO that is meant to commercialize its Martin Jetpack." Is the reverse true if the investor does'nt buy in?

I think we can also read the company is really struggling to come up with investors. We know they couldn't find enough in NZ - thats why they went to Australia. It now appears there arent enough in Australia so they are looking "offshore"

I'm wondering if the CEO and CFO are spending their Christmas IPO success bonuses yet?

robbo24

29-11-2014, 05:37 PM

I'm wondering if the CEO and CFO are spending their Christmas IPO success bonuses yet?

Someone has balls for sayings things alright!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

robbo24

30-11-2014, 03:26 PM

Minimoke, chalk up another sale:

More surprisingly, the Martin Jetpack has attracted interest from the agricultural sector. An avocado farmer was particularly interested in acquiring one of the new jetpacks, explaining how it would help them to rapidly examine their crops.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jetpacks-could-be-available-buy-two-years-time-1477238

minimoke

30-11-2014, 05:24 PM

Minimoke, chalk up another sale:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jetpacks-could-be-available-buy-two-years-time-1477238
Jeez - they are really starting to stretch it now. Why doesn't said avocado grower just go up and down his plot on a quad bike, or stick a few cameras on poles or get a camera tied to a drone. I think he'll sit down and go $200k is a cost too much. If that doesn't do it just wait for the complaints from the neighbors on the din this thing makes.

I eagerly await the high country farmer who is going to use it to help muster merino. Or maybe whalewatch could use it for spotting whale off Kaikoura.

Edit: What sale? - don't be counting your chickens before they hatch!

robbo24

30-11-2014, 06:25 PM

I eagerly await the high country farmer who is going to use it to help muster merino. Or maybe whalewatch could use it for spotting whale off Kaikoura.

You're getting good at thinking up applications for the Martin Jetpack, minimoke.

minimoke

30-11-2014, 07:39 PM

You're getting good at thinking up applications for the Martin Jetpack, minimoke.
Think I should ask for a retainer?

Harvey Specter

01-12-2014, 10:25 AM

If you thought you were to lat to invest, dont worry, they have extended!:

http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/156-martin-aircraft-company-extends-ipo-offer-period

minimoke

01-12-2014, 01:59 PM

Minimoke, chalk up another sale:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jetpacks-could-be-available-buy-two-years-time-1477238
I've been thinking. But this is one for the engineers. I'm wondering what the force of the jet pack down draft is. I'm also wondering what force needs to exerted on an avocado before it detaches from the tree.
so I'm wondering how high above a tree a jet pack needs to be to ensure tree and fruit aren't damaged.

If it's anything above what we'd call a gentle breeze we can be assured the jet pack won't harm the fruit. That's because anything over 15kph means the pack stays on the ground.

Biscuit

01-12-2014, 02:28 PM

I'm wondering what the force of the jet pack down draft is.

Well, that is simple enough: when hovering, the force of the down draft is equal to the mass of the jet pack plus pilot multiplied by the acceleration due to gravity so, assuming the mass is roughly 200 kg, that's a force of about 2000 N. Does that help?

Biscuit

01-12-2014, 02:54 PM

I guess the force required to detach an avocado from a tree would be at least 10 N. In order to pick an avocado with a jetpack then, the cross section area of the avocado would have to be at least 1/200th of the cross sectional area of the downdraft, which it probably wouldn't be. My guess is you could probably safely fly over fruit trees without dislodging the fruit.

robbo24

01-12-2014, 02:58 PM

robbo24

01-12-2014, 03:16 PM

robbo24

01-12-2014, 03:19 PM

Google may in fact need MJP patents and IP if they want an electric powered jetpack as the hint may be construed by the comments made by Astro: http://www.cnet.com/news/google-x-head-says-no-google-jetpacks-coming/

They can just strap their new battery technologies straight onto the existing Martin - it would be quieter and lighter as Astro seems to complain about.

BFG

01-12-2014, 03:59 PM

robbo24

01-12-2014, 04:05 PM

Kiwi's showing up the BIG BOY Yankees eh? That'd be awesome! I don't think Google would need to take a second look at a paltry $10M+ investment though...

Cheaper to pay for it now than $1bn not too far down the track...

fungus pudding

01-12-2014, 04:53 PM

Think I should ask for a retainer?

You might be better with a restrainer.

minimoke

01-12-2014, 07:16 PM

It'd be cool if the significant offshore investor was Google.

:D:D:D:D:D

You can just tell they are jealous from this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2623570/Is-Google-jetpack-coming-Firm-admits-worked-design-says-technology-not-ready-YET.html
but their's 's was only as loud as a motorcycle. And I suspect they knew the difference between a jet and a ducted fan.

also interesting they didnt want a jet pack death trap - interesting because martins brought in parachute system has been around for a long time.

At least Google know when to quit a project - so there is probably a lesson there.

minimoke

01-12-2014, 07:17 PM

You might be better with a restrainer.you're probably right. But if we were to ask Glen to invent one to suit me I reckon I'd be safe for the next 30 years

robbo24

01-12-2014, 07:21 PM

At least Google know when to quit a project - so there is probably a lesson there.

Why waste their time copying MJP? The best they could do is a poor-man's imitation anyway.

Maybe they learned their lesson after the horrific tragedy called Google Plus (and it's pitiful rendition of Facebook)...

minimoke

01-12-2014, 07:56 PM

Maybe they learned their lesson after the horrific tragedy called Google Plus (and it's pitiful rendition of Facebook)...
Google Plus or Google Glass?

robbo24

01-12-2014, 09:56 PM

Google Plus or Google Glass?

http://venturebeat.com/2014/11/29/in-scathing-critique-former-googler-says-google-has-lost-its-way/

Google+. It's crap.

robbo24

02-12-2014, 11:26 AM

Well it's just after lunchtime in Mountain View, CA, USA.

There's some big headquarters of some big companies there.

I wonder what they are up to on their lovely Monday afternoon - discussing some investments, perhaps?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

BFG

02-12-2014, 12:51 PM

I'm sure there are some big government organisations near Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, also thinking of the uses for this beast gadget...

robbo24

02-12-2014, 01:33 PM

I'm sure there are some big government organisations near Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, also thinking of the uses for this beast gadget...

Funny you should mention that, BFG.

Perhaps the large investor is the likes of Lockheed Martin.

Afterall:

(1) Peter Coker (CEO, MJP) used to work for Lockheed.

(2) Lockheed is developing ARES (https://www.google.com/search?q=ARES+lockheed&hl=en&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=sQd9VMPFGYGxmwWd4oKYDg&ved=0CAUQ_AU) with DARPA: http://defensetech.org/2014/02/26/army-develops-robotic-supply-convoys-to-save-soldiers/

Helicopters are one solution, but the supply of available helicopters can’t meet the demand for their services, which cover diverse operational needs including resupply, tactical insertion and extraction, and casualty evacuation, according to Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency officials.

As a potential solution, DARPA has been working on a prototype that would provide flexible, terrain-independent transportation for logistics, personnel transport and tactical support missions for small ground units.

(3) If DARPA and Lockheed are working on something with similar capabilities then it follows that there may certainly be a market for the MJP.

(4) AVWatch (working with MJP) also works with DARPA.

(5) What better way to obtain some juicy development work "on the cheap" for Lockheed's own twin-ducted, vertical/horizontal flying machine than to buy some MJP.

Get amongst it, minimoke.

minimoke

02-12-2014, 03:02 PM

Get amongst it, minimoke.
im trying but now I cant get past how you would have " tactical insertion" and mjp in the same sentence. Nothing like giving the enemy a half hour warning that a mjp is on its way in.

robbo24

02-12-2014, 03:26 PM

im trying but now I cant get past how you would have " tactical insertion" and mjp in the same sentence. Nothing like giving the enemy a half hour warning that a mjp is on its way in.

What do you suggest is quieter?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Helicoptor?

Fighter jet?

ARES?

Diesel truck?

Goat-driven cart?

minimoke

02-12-2014, 04:13 PM

What do you suggest is quieter?

Goat-driven cart?
That's an idea. It can probably travel further and with a greater payload and less maintenance. Not far to fall either so no need for parachute. And cheap to run. Speed may be an issue- but perhaps you could get the mjp to drop one behind enemy lines and get the goat to do the last leg.

Alternatively a hummer with no exhaust would do all that is required, would be faster than the goat and quieter than the mjp.

I can see this will be disruptive technology to the goat industry.

robbo24

02-12-2014, 04:14 PM

I can see this will be disruptive technology to the goat industry.

:D

Too bad a goat can't run on regular gasoline or fly...

:D

BFG

02-12-2014, 07:01 PM

:D

Too bad a goat can't run on regular gasoline or fly...

:D

Au contraire, I don't think you've tried goat simulator my good friend...

robbo24

03-12-2014, 08:38 AM

I can see this will be disruptive technology to the goat industry.

Here's another article with some ideas about potential applications for the Minimoke Jet Pack (MJP):
http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20141202/BUSINESS/141209558/12147/NEWS

The jetpack can be used as an observation position for emergency rapid responders, to put someone on the scene fast and get around in disaster zones and high-traffic areas.

“Being able to fly it remotely up to the side of a building with a basket for somebody to jump into, or to fly it from one ship to another to transfer supplies or a person, I see a role for it there,” said Kluckhuhn.

The jetpack can launch and set up a miniature satellite that can remain stationary to help bridge communications.

Kluckhuhn met with Peter Coker, CEO of Martin Aircraft, to discuss the jetpack logistics.

“I gained confidence that this was something real based on what he said and the backing of 20 to 30 million dollars of investment they are putting into the machine,” said Kluckhuhn.

Eventually, the jetpack will be available for individual sales, but that’s last on the list of potential uses, he said.

For now, it’s designed for professionals “rather than somebody with a lot of money or somebody without a lot of common sense,” he said.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Better get your form in before the Google/Lockheed consortium negotiate their buy-in, minimoke! :D:D:D:D

robbo24

03-12-2014, 08:42 AM

minimoke

03-12-2014, 11:15 AM

According to this translated eastern-European website, the Minimoke Jet Pack (MJP) also has "special shoes and clothes" to go with it.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsvit24.net%2Fother%2F97875-obnarodovan-letatelnj-apparat-jetpack-kotorj-pojavytsja-v-prodazhe-v-2014-godu&edit-text=
I think it works that if you buy a jet pack you'll get a free pair of nike airs worth $500 and if you order before the IPO closes Martin Will throw in an extra set of special clothes.

robbo24

03-12-2014, 10:18 PM

I think it works that if you buy a jet pack you'll get a free pair of nike airs worth $500 and if you order before the IPO closes Martin Will throw in an extra set of special clothes.

But mini-bro, what do you think about this (http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/martin-aircraft-extends-ipo-for-offshore-investor.2414219/page-2?get_post=true).

I note, mini-brah, that the Hot Copper thread above cites this Wise-Owl research (https://www.wise-owl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Martin-Aircraft-MJP-25-November-14.pdf?inf_contact_key=8025002d46ff1f642810c1b9fe6 3e86042cd3b50368f028dc357da0d26bdeca8).

Better get your IPO form sent in quick!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

robbo24

04-12-2014, 10:26 AM

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I wonder if the MJP is on minimoke's Christmas list?

http://gadgetshow.channel5.com/news/only-if-youve-been-really-good-insane-and-unaffordable-tech-we-wish-santa-could-fit-down

Santa will have no trouble at all landing on the roof of your house with the incredible Martin Jetpack (http://gadgetshow.channel5.com/news/flying-doctors-why-ambulance-2016-will-be-jetpack), but you're going to need one heck of a big chimney if our jolly bearded friend is going to squeeze down there with it. You'll need to be more than good too, as along with a whopping £127,500 price tag, initial Martin Jetpacks are aimed at emergency services rather than individuals. We really want one though - there's not a lot else that can recreate the giddy childhood excitement of heading out on a new bike on Christmas day - we reckon this would get close!

minimoke

04-12-2014, 12:55 PM

I wonder if the MJP is on minimoke's Christmas list?

.....if-youve-been-really-good-insane-and-unaffordable-tech]
"Insane" and "unaffordable" seems to sum it up

minimoke

04-12-2014, 12:57 PM

Better get your IPO form sent in quick!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
See they reckon it's unassisted flight. Seems the still need the two ground crew to stabilise the undercarriage during takeoff.

minimoke

05-12-2014, 06:18 PM

If you thought you were to lat to invest, dont worry, they have extended!:

http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/156-martin-aircraft-company-extends-ipo-offer-period
Its after 5.00pm and one week on and hark, what do I hear? No, not the sound of a jet pack passing by - just the sound of silence. But if I listen very very carefully I can hear the faint ticking of a clock as the seconds pass by with nervous IPO investors wondering if they have done the right thing.

robbo24

08-12-2014, 09:22 AM

Its after 5.00pm and one week on and hark, what do I hear? No, not the sound of a jet pack passing by - just the sound of silence. But if I listen very very carefully I can hear the faint ticking of a clock as the seconds pass by with nervous IPO investors wondering if they have done the right thing.

Are you worried that you might miss out on a good old fashioned stag? Or a good old fashioned investment? :D

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11369319

Martin Aircraft Company has extended its IPO for two weeks as the firm negotiates with a potential investor that could become a cornerstone shareholder.

The Christchurch jetpack maker's offer period was to close last Friday, but will now remain open until December 12.
Chief executive Peter Coker said the negotiations could result in a cornerstone shareholder coming on board before the planned ASX listing.

"We felt it better for the company and the potential shareholders to continue those discussions and that meant we had to extend the IPO for two weeks," Coker says.

He says the company is confident it will raise the full A$25 million in growth capital it is seeking through the issue of 50 million shares at A50c apiece.

minimoke

08-12-2014, 07:04 PM

Are you worried that you might miss out on a good old fashioned stag? Or a good old fashioned investment? :D

i love stags - but I have a golden rule. Demand has to clearly outstrip supply. Given MJP have a pot load of shares they are ready to offload to the special investor I don't think the demand side is right. Alternatively, demand may be so great that once the special investor has had their allocation we plebs would be scaled back - so I wouldn't have as many to stag as I might like.

As for an old fashioned investment I have a picture of the XRO chart in my mind and I cant budge it. I reckon it looks like a MJP takeoff procedure and once peak altitude is reached the inevitable happens. i can see MJP shares doing the same - assuming of course they actually take off.

Harvey Specter

08-12-2014, 09:11 PM

Dont worry Minimoke - you will get as many as you want as they will stuggle to fill the order.

However, the special investors already got tehir share sin the pre IPO capital raise at at huge discount(30c vs 50c IPO)! Some will no doubt to be happy to dump at 40c (20% under IPO) and still have a 33% gain in less than a year!

minimoke

09-12-2014, 07:19 PM

If you thought you were to lat to invest, dont worry, they have extended!:

http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/156-martin-aircraft-company-extends-ipo-offer-period
I'm wondering now how complex these discussions can be. 11 days on and still no progress. How can that be for a company with no revenue, no product, no market, no sales and just a bigger big back shed.

robbo24

10-12-2014, 10:38 AM

I'm wondering now how complex these discussions can be. 11 days on and still no progress. How can that be for a company with no revenue, no product, no market, no sales and just a bigger big back shed.

Want to put a pack of Winnie Blues on it??? :D

robbo24

10-12-2014, 10:41 AM

BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30390231

minimoke

10-12-2014, 04:10 PM

Want to put a pack of Winnie Blues on it??? :D
tempting except I have a rule not to steal candy from a baby - unless mum isn't looking. Besides I don't smoke so the prize isn't very tempting.

I think that if your bullishness pays off you will be rewarded with riches beyond your imagination wheras I will be feeding from the mouths of babe's.

If however my bearish approach proves correct I will bask in the knowledge of once again being right and you will forever rue the day you made a $500 punt on MJP.

robbo24

10-12-2014, 05:36 PM

tempting except I have a rule not to steal candy from a baby - unless mum isn't looking. Besides I don't smoke so the prize isn't very tempting.

I think that if your bullishness pays off you will be rewarded with riches beyond your imagination wheras I will be feeding from the mouths of babe's.

If however my bearish approach proves correct I will bask in the knowledge of once again being right and you will forever rue the day you made a $500 punt on MJP.

Winnie Blues mate :D:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCmyGg3vnM&list=UUV1G6JkQtB2nobFm3MGNsBQ

minimoke

10-12-2014, 07:48 PM

Winnie Blues mate :D:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCmyGg3vnM&list=UUV1G6JkQtB2nobFm3MGNsBQ
Jeez cobber, you'll be telling me next the Department of the Environment has placed a large order with MJP to provide jetpacks for spotters when the Drop Bear hunting season starts.

BFG

10-12-2014, 08:26 PM

More advertising on Hot Copper. Take from that what you will...

robbo24

10-12-2014, 08:44 PM

More advertising on Hot Copper. Take from that what you will...

Google how cookies and Internet advertising works man

It's targetted advertising. .

BFG

10-12-2014, 09:42 PM

Google how cookies and Internet advertising works man

It's targetted advertising. .

Must be reading my chat lines from certain people :D :D :D

robbo24

10-12-2014, 11:04 PM

Must be reading my chat lines from certain people :D :D :D

Or perhaps listening into voice messages... Drunken voice messages...

:D:D:D:D

minimoke

11-12-2014, 05:28 PM

I've just cancelled my hearing test at specsavers. Above the silence with the ticking clocks I was hearing this crunch crunch type sound. Then it changed to a chomp grind type noise. I couldn't figure it out and thought I was going a bit mad.

But then it dawned on me that I was hearing the distant biting of finger nails by nervous IPO investors who had now started gnawing on their fingertips.

Only a bit more than 24 hours to go and I'm sure they are pleased god gave them 10 fingers.

minimoke

12-12-2014, 02:09 PM

Only a bit more than 24 hours to go and I'm sure they are pleased god gave them 10 fingers.

To all the god botherers out there who have PM'd me, no I will not apologise for " using gods name in a disrespectful way.." blah blah.

5 hours out and still no news so by now you must realise it's going to take some devine intervention to get MJP off the ground.

Harvey Specter

12-12-2014, 02:19 PM

To all the god botherers out there who have PM'd me, no I will not apologise for " using gods name in a disrespectful way.." blah blah.

5 hours out and still no news so by now you must realise it's going to take some devine intervention to get MJP off the ground.Will be interesting to see if the pre-IPO round investors are in the money post the listing.

If you push it off a cliff, technically it has left the ground(???).

robbo24

12-12-2014, 02:56 PM

To all the god botherers out there who have PM'd me, no I will not apologise for " using gods name in a disrespectful way.." blah blah.

5 hours out and still no news so by now you must realise it's going to take some devine intervention to get MJP off the ground.

Wow - there's people PMing you, that's funny. It's not even me :D:D:D:D

I do however find it unfortunate that you've reverted back to your snapiti-style downramping of MJP.

If you've got nothing of substance to say, why say anything?

minimoke

12-12-2014, 04:03 PM

If you've got nothing of substance to say, why say anything?
In much the same way it is said nature abhors a vacuum I think sharetraders abhor a lack of information from their companies. I cant resist the urge to fill that gap.

Are you one of these shareholders that prefers the sound of silence - oops I've probably answered my own question given the lack of news over the past two weeks. Or do you just prefer news heavily dosed with hyperbole?

Tick tick tick

Ps what is "snapiti-style"? - thats new one on me.

minimoke

12-12-2014, 11:10 PM

I do however find it unfortunate that you've reverted back to your snapiti-style downramping of MJP.
share trader forum strikes again?

Guess what I'm hearing now. We know it takes a lot of spin to get a ducted' fan moving. I'm hearing preparations for spin

trackers

13-12-2014, 09:43 PM

Frostwind

15-12-2014, 01:25 PM

Oh, IPO extended again, looks like there's no demand, and the market in general is just starting to decline now and that furthers dampen risk appetite. The yen rally after Abe's victory says it all.

http://hotcopper.com.au/threads/ann-supplementary-prospectus.2423870/?get_post=true#.VI4qditQeao

minimoke

15-12-2014, 02:00 PM

I'd say it's looking dire. Ord minnet have walked so there is no lead manager. There is no mention of the " potential significant investor".

All that is mentioned is that "additional investors" have another week to participate in this offer. Here's me thinking that those wanting a bite at this cherry would also have already done so.

No mention of this on the investor page in mjp's website.

I think they are waiting until the markets go to sleep over Christmas and this will be quietly buried.

Anyone Else Noted How quiet the media are. There is planely no interest unless it is a press release that can be copied/pasted.

Frostwind

15-12-2014, 05:25 PM

minimoke

15-12-2014, 07:00 PM

Oh True, good spotting, "potential investors", can I pull out the IPO if I've already applied?
At the risk of being accused of downramping by Robbo I'm reluctant to answer. But since you asked, and I'm not volunteering, you could refer to S11.3 which seems to provide Applicants with a one month window to withdraw once a Supplementary Prospectus has been issued.

(this section reminds us that the minimum requirement for the Offer to proceed is $10m. I think we can take it that this level has not been achieved so no good looking at this from a stag perspective)

minimoke

15-12-2014, 08:48 PM

I'd say it's looking dire. Ord minnet have walked so there is no lead manager..
So the issue now is how dire is dire? I reckon they are up for at least $2.4m to pay off ord Minnet.

So they haven't raised $10m, $2.4m which has gone to OM. That is a max of $7.6m raised, when they were hoping for $25m. I'm not even sure it is that high. The "High Net worth" pre IPO investors could only come up with $3.6m. This IPO is "Highly Speculative" so I reckon most people with cash to burn would already have handed it over Pre IPO. I reckon at best they had $5m of applications less the money to Ord Minnet leaving only $2.5m. Less any withdrawals over the next week before they close it off.

Pretty dire I'd say.

robbo24

15-12-2014, 11:07 PM

At the risk of being accused of downramping by Robbo I'm reluctant to answer.)

How unfortunate you don't follow your own advice :D

So the issue now is how dire is dire? I reckon they are up for at least $2.4m to pay off ord Minnet.

So they haven't raised $10m, $2.4m which has gone to OM. That is a max of $7.6m raised, when they were hoping for $25m. I'm not even sure it is that high. The "High Net worth" pre IPO investors could only come up with $3.6m. This IPO is "Highly Speculative" so I reckon most people with cash to burn would already have handed it over Pre IPO. I reckon at best they had $5m of applications less the money to Ord Minnet leaving only $2.5m. Less any withdrawals over the next week before they close it off.

Pretty dire I'd say.

So, this whacky theory you have about $2.4m... Where did you pluck this number from? :D

Let us all refer to the terms of cl 12.3 of the Prospectus:

12.3 AGREEMENT WITH ORD MINNETT LIMITED

The Company has entered into a contract with Ord Minnett Limited (Ord) for the provision of Lead Manager services for the Offer (Ord Contract).

Ord’s role is to facilitate the marketing, distribution and allocation of the shares of the Company under the Offer and assist in advising the Company in relation to the Offer (Ord Services).

In exchange for the Ord Services rendered, the Company will pay Ord a management fee of 2.5% (excluding GST) of the total capital raised in the Offer and a selling fee of 2.0% (excluding GST) of the total amount raised through Ord’s distribution networks or other distribution networks outside of Axstra.

The Company indemnifies Ord from any claim arising directly or indirectly from the provision of the Ord Services by Ord, the making of the Offer and issuing of the prospectus or breach of any law in connection with the Offer, subject to standard carve-outs in relation to claims or losses arising from a breach of the Ord Contract by Ord, negligence or misconduct.

In addition to the fees above, the Company has agreed to reimburse Ord for certain agreed costs and expenses, including legal expenses incurred by the Lead Manager in relation to the offer.

Subject to completion of the Offer and the Listing, Ord will be appointed as an ongoing adviser on a monthly retainer of $7,500 (excluding GST)

Now, if we refer to cl 3 of the supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf) we see that the selling and management fee are not being paid but certain fees and expenses incurred to date will be paid by agreement.

Are you suggesting that MJP have agreed to pay $2.4m, or well over double of what would be paid if (a) it was fully subscribed, and; (b) Ord obtained their full 2% commission?

Given your seemingly random figures it occurs to me that your narrative is probably wrong, therefore I think it is more likely that a large potential investor has offered to buy them all directly from the company and the services of Ord are no longer required :D

Post your form away ASAP minimoke!

robbo24

15-12-2014, 11:21 PM

No mention of this on the investor page in mjp's website.

Clause 1 on page 2 of the supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf), says "on-going discussions with potential investors." Given these discussions are "on-going" I guess we can presume it is the same "potential significant investor" from the previous news announcement (http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/156-martin-aircraft-company-extends-ipo-offer-period). Fortunately they dropped the word "significant" from their prospectus otherwise it would be a bit "hypey," wouldn't it?

All that is mentioned is that "additional investors" have another week to participate in this offer. Here's me thinking that those wanting a bite at this cherry would also have already done so.

This is plainly wrong and misleading as well, as per above. The supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf) (clause 1, page 2) refers to both on-going discussions "potential investors" and to give the opportunity to "additional investors."

Come on minimoke, you are much, much better than this.

Oh True, good spotting, "potential investors", can I pull out the IPO if I've already applied?

I don't even know what you're talking about, see above. There is no good spotting going on at all.

Minimoke is just downramping and making up random facts and numbers :D

minimoke

16-12-2014, 06:56 AM

So, this whacky theory you have about $2.4m... Where did you pluck this number from? :D
13.5.2 which talks about the minimum costs of the offer which include certain fees and expences. Which are likely to be incurred through the lead manager

Now, if we refer to cl 3 of the supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf) we see that the selling and management fee are not being paid but certain fees and expenses incurred to date will be paid by agreement. there you go

Are you suggesting that MJP have agreed to pay $2.4m, or well over double of what would be paid if (a) it was fully subscribed, and; (b) Ord obtained their full 2% commission?Yes - that is the minimum provided for in the prospectus and will be the figure Ord Minnett will have done its minimum budget / revenue expectations on. You need to add commission and costs incurred by OM on behalf.

Given your seemingly random figures it occurs to me that your narrative is probably wrong, therefore I think it is more likely that a large potential investor has offered to buy them all directly from the company and the services of Ord are no longer required :D
Now you see where i get my "random" figures from. But think about it. They need $10m minimum to list. They didnt achieve this by the first date. If they had they would have closed and still proceeded with discussions with the significant investor. Given they didn't achieve $10m they had a swag of shares left to get them to the $10m mark which the significant investor would have been looking at. So a big swag remains on the table.

Post your form away ASAP minimoke!I think the only forms being sent in now are the refund of monies forms.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 07:04 AM

Clause 1 on page 2 of the supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf), says "on-going discussions with potential investors." Given these discussions are "on-going" I guess we can presume it is the same "potential significant investor" from the previous news announcement (http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/156-martin-aircraft-company-extends-ipo-offer-period). Fortunately they dropped the word "significant" from their prospectus otherwise it would be a bit "hypey," wouldn't it? The only thing you can read into "ongoing" is that the $10m threshold hasn't been reached and they are trying hard to get there. I Reckon its quite a shift from "potential significant investor" to "potential investors" and its not positive. Nothing wroong with a bit of hype. MJP are reknown for their annual announcements for sales soon.

This is plainly wrong and misleading as well, as per above. The supplementary prospectus (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141212/pdf/42vg1hkmyq79t2.pdf) (clause 1, page 2) refers to both on-going discussions "potential investors" and to give the opportunity to "additional investors." The first rule of spin is you put your key point in the first paragraph because this is where you are goin to get your sound bite. The minor bits get burried elsewhere to avoid accusations of incomplete information

Minimoke is just downramping and making up random facts and numbers :DNo - just relating it as I see it.

robbo24

16-12-2014, 09:08 AM

No - just relating it as I see it.

Let's see your breakdown of the $2.4m figure then :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Frostwind

16-12-2014, 09:44 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anybody here either themselves, or know of anyone that's subscribing for shares?

They probably lost more existing applicants than gaining new ones by extending the IPO.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 10:15 AM

Let's see your breakdown of the $2.4m figure then :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Sorry I don't have that detail. You'll need to ask MJP since they are the ones that put that figure in the prospectus. If you can wait a bit some of the detail will come out in the accounts

minimoke

16-12-2014, 10:21 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anybody here either themselves, or know of anyone that's subscribing for shares?

They probably lost more existing applicants than gaining new ones by extending the IPO.
It's probably safe to assume robbo has and i haven't. Also safe to assume that since the $10 m threshold hasn't been reached not many others have.

It will be interesting to know how many withdrawals there are since this is new territory for me. Most floats I keen an eye on do list on target date - especially this year when there has been a great appetite for IPO's.

I can't think of any floats where applicants had the opportunity to withdraw after an extension. There must be some forum members can point to.

robbo24

16-12-2014, 10:34 AM

Sorry I don't have that detail. You'll need to ask MJP since they are the ones that put that figure in the prospectus. If you can wait a bit some of the detail will come out in the accounts

Oh ok then - you were writing up a storm like you did have "that detail."

:D:D:D:D

minimoke

16-12-2014, 10:51 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anybody here either themselves, or know of anyone that's subscribing for shares?

They probably lost more existing applicants than gaining new ones by extending the IPO.

Oh ok then - you were writing up a storm like you did have "that detail."

:D:D:D:D
I'm more than happly to be corrected but in the absence of any other information I'm comfortable with the numbers.

That spin machine has to be cranked up to full revs by now but I'm not hearing anything positive. Care to share your analysis of the situation?

Harvey Specter

16-12-2014, 10:53 AM

Oh ok then - you were writing up a storm like you did have "that detail."

:D:D:D:DI dont think he ever said he had the detail. He said the prospectus states that as the minimum cost. i dont have a copy of the prospectus - maybe you could copy paragraph 13.5.2 to put this to bed one way or the other.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 11:23 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anybody here either themselves, or know of anyone that's subscribing for shares?

They probably lost more existing applicants than gaining new ones by extending the IPO.

I dont think he ever said he had the detail. He said the prospectus states that as the minimum cost. i dont have a copy of the prospectus - maybe you could copy paragraph 13.5.2 to put this to bed one way or the other.
That should be 13.5.20. Sorry but I cant copy on my phone but it essentially says
" the totAl estimated costs of the offer payable by the company including... lead manager fees accounting and tax and legAl fees etc........... will range from NZ$2.46m (assuming A$10 m is raised) to Nz$3.4m assuming A$25 is raised. These costs are payable by the company"

Now I'll go out on a limb a bit here because the costs aren't being paid so much by the company because the company has no revenue. The costs will be paid by the high net wealth shareholders. So in another environment this has the risk of looking kinda like a ponzi where new shareholders are brought in to pay for the next lot of new shareholderrs and so a vicious cycle begins

robbo24

16-12-2014, 01:37 PM

At post 146 you say:

I reckon they are up for at least $2.4m to pay off ord Minnet.

So they haven't raised $10m, $2.4m which has gone to OM.

However, as discussed earlier:

In exchange for the Ord Services rendered, the Company will pay Ord a management fee of 2.5% (excluding GST) of the total capital raised in the Offer and a selling fee of 2.0% (excluding GST) of the total amount raised through Ord’s distribution networks or other distribution networks outside of Axstra.

Now you backtrack a little and say well actually it's not all going to Ord:

That should be 13.5.20. Sorry but I cant copy on my phone but it essentially says
" the totAl estimated costs of the offer payable by the company including... lead manager fees accounting and tax and legAl fees etc........... will range from NZ$2.46m (assuming A$10 m is raised) to Nz$3.4m assuming A$25 is raised. These costs are payable by the company"

Now I'll go out on a limb a bit here because the costs aren't being paid so much by the company because the company has no revenue. The costs will be paid by the high net wealth shareholders. So in another environment this has the risk of looking kinda like a ponzi where new shareholders are brought in to pay for the next lot of new shareholderrs and so a vicious cycle begins

Please, show your working how MJP owes Ord the sum of $2.4m as you discussed earlier :D

I think a lot more of the money has gone to other services for purposes of the IPO - you're way off the mark, minimoke... You're just muddying the waters my friend.

Harvey Specter

16-12-2014, 02:08 PM

Please, show your working how MJP owes Ord the sum of $2.4m as you discussed earlier :DWithout any research, I will make a decision on this fight. Minimoke has lost the battle but won the war.

The full $2.4m is not going to OM. But $2.4m will be leaving MJP bank account in costs for the IPO - which by my count, would pay for the manufacture of about 20 jet packs (allowing for a generaous margin) - money well spent????

robbo24

16-12-2014, 02:23 PM

...I will make a decision on this fight. Minimoke has lost the battlebut won the war.

About right, except the listing is not over yet :D:D:D

minimoke

16-12-2014, 02:33 PM

I think a lot more of the money has gone to other services for purposes of the IPO - you're way off the mark, minimoke... You're just muddying the waters my friend.
Yes I did say mjp would pay off OM $2.4m but without specifying what would be included in that amount. Clearly there are the management and selling fees. What I don't know is what other costs OM incur which they pass onto MJP. Clearly MJP are allowing for at least $2.46 in costs to get them over the line. In settling with OM I'd imagine all other initiAl costs linked through OM will be settled as well.

That said, I think we can assume selling commission to OM may not be that high. seems MJP haven't gotten to the $10m mark so OM were not sucessfull using their networks to generate sales.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 02:41 PM

About right, except the listing is not over yet :D:D:D
You are right there. It was going to be over on 27 November. But MJP couldn't achieve this target date.

It was then going to be over on 12 December but another target not reached.

Now it is going to be over on 19 December.

At least you can say MJP are consistent. They consistently fail to deliver to targets.

If this gives you comfort, so be it.

One of us will be fools with our money. Time will tell who - assuming MJP just don't keep extending the close date forever.

robbo24

16-12-2014, 02:47 PM

One of us will be fools with our money. Time will tell who - assuming MJP just don't keep extending the close date forever.

Yes very interesting indeed.

I at least feel safe that I will not receive a statement of claim alleging some civil action in tort for my public allegations that an IPO is a ponzi-scheme... Fools and their money though, I suppose...

Harvey Specter

16-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Yes I did say mjp would pay off OM $2.4m but without specifying what would be included in that amount. If that is the total cost, it will also include accounting firm costs (OM would have required a full DD of accounts before supporting), legal firm costs, marketing, publishing etc etc. Many of those are fixed costs compared to OM which would mainly be variable based on success.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 03:24 PM

If that is the total cost, it will also include accounting firm costs (OM would have required a full DD of accounts before supporting), legal firm costs, marketing, publishing etc etc. Many of those are fixed costs compared to OM which would mainly be variable based on success.
In some markets the lead manager will do the due diligence, writing offer documents and drawing up the prospectus, statutory stuff with listing rules., finance and other work connected with getting the company to market such as arranging printing advertising and media releases. As well as using networks to bring in punters. How many of these functons Ord Minnet does I do not know - suffice to say they are all potential costs that could have been incurred by OM.

robbo24

16-12-2014, 03:30 PM

In some markets the lead manager will do the due diligence, writing offer documents and drawing up the prospectus, statutory stuff with listing rules., finance and other work connected with getting the company to market such as arranging printing advertising and media releases. As well as using networks to bring in punters. How many of these functons Ord Minnet does I do not know - suffice to say they are all potential costs that could have been incurred by OM.

For your convenience, I set out again:

In exchange for the Ord Services rendered, the Company will pay Ord a management fee of 2.5% (excluding GST) of the total capital raised in the Offer and a selling fee of 2.0% (excluding GST) of the total amount raised through Ord’s distribution networks or other distribution networks outside of Axstra.

minimoke

16-12-2014, 09:43 PM

For your convenience, I set out again:
I understand that - its the management and sale fees. What we don't know is what other costs, if any OM generated through other parties which needed to be settled at the termination of the OM agreement. Only one way perhaps to tell - we'll just have to wait till their next set of accounts come out.

If you think its just a couple of hundred $K and this figure helps you sleep easy at night I'm pleased for you. I imagine you'l be needing whatever crumbs of good cheer you can find at the moment and I'm not going to be one to begrudge you that hope.

robbo24

16-12-2014, 10:34 PM

I understand that - its the management and sale fees. What we don't know is what other costs, if any OM generated through other parties which needed to be settled at the termination of the OM agreement. Only one way perhaps to tell - we'll just have to wait till their next set of accounts come out.

If you think its just a couple of hundred $K and this figure helps you sleep easy at night I'm pleased for you. I imagine you'l be needing whatever crumbs of good cheer you can find at the moment and I'm not going to be one to begrudge you that hope.

Have you even looked at the other entities providing services for the IPO or shall I copy and paste that for you too?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

ShawnG92

17-12-2014, 11:15 AM

robbo24

17-12-2014, 11:50 AM

GuessX

17-12-2014, 12:01 PM

Another viewer here who's been attracted and now second thinking (though probably won't pull out).

Understand the very high risk nature of this one, but I felt that there is a demand out there for a jump jet style vehicle for first responders and should it gain a bit of traction, hopefully some interest for military. If (this is a very big if) military gets involved deep pockets are found.

Google shows a bit of personal interest, but I'm more aligned to emergency responders and see a market for that.

I've not put much into it and if I lose it all I won't be hurting, but thats the gamble.

robbo24

17-12-2014, 12:50 PM

I've not put much into it and if I lose it all I won't be hurting, but thats the gamble.

I've been to the HQ, met the CEO, playing with the jetpack (not turned on though, I'm afraid), seen the workshop areas and all the bits and pieces they are working on.

A risk, certainly, a gamble, maybe but a "ponzi scheme" as suggested by minimoke - certainly not.

ShawnG92

17-12-2014, 12:53 PM

Interesting notion - may I ask, what caused you to apply for the IPO in the first place?

This thread is usually just myself and minimoke going back and forth.

Would be interested to know your views that existed before you got cold feet.

:D:D:D:D

Hey Robbo,

I thought this would be a great invention for Military Use. I have some military experience and can see it's application in an urban ops space or the unmanned version as a large obvious drone that could cover space quicker than small drones can at a higher level.

However, the lack of communication has made me an investor looking to bail.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 12:55 PM

I've not put much into it and if I lose it all I won't be hurting, but thats the gamble.
I find this disappointing. I think people should do their research and form a view which supports a "buy" decision. If not convinced to " buy" then don't.

Even with these highly speculative stocks it shouldn't be a gamble. You should measure the risk and ensure the likely return rewards that risk.

That's the problem I see with mjp. There is probably a 95% chance of loosing (all) your money. What they are offering in return doesn't whet my appetite. So I'll keep my cash and take the much lower but safer return on this occasion.

That's not gambling, it's managing the risk.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 12:59 PM

However, the lack of communication has made me an investor looking to bail.
I'm not sure why you would buy in the first place. Mjp's communication has been pretty consistent. Every year they roll out the same old press release which essentially says "loads of interest this year with first orders off production line next year". Except next year never arrives.

robbo24

17-12-2014, 01:09 PM

I think people should do their research and form a view which supports a "buy" decision. If not convinced to " buy" then don't.

Even with these highly speculative stocks it shouldn't be a gamble. You should measure the risk and ensure the likely return rewards that risk.

That's the problem I see with mjp. There is probably a 95% chance of loosing (all) your money. What they are offering in return doesn't whet my appetite. So I'll keep my cash and take the much lower but safer return on this occasion.

So, from this I gather minimoke has done his research, measured the risk and has come to the conclusion of 95%.

I am interested to see how you convert your in-depth research into this percentage... Please do share.

GuessX

17-12-2014, 01:32 PM

I find this disappointing. I think people should do their research and form a view which supports a "buy" decision. If not convinced to " buy" then don't.

Why do you think I haven't done my research?

Based upon my feelings of this stock, I felt it was worth risking a little bit of money for high returns. On the chance it doesn't work, I haven't put all my eggs in one high risk basket. That IS managing risk .. is it not?

There's a chance this will pay off big time, and a chance that I will lose it all.
I'm not putting all my money in this stock becuase there is as you say, a very real risk of losing it all - and I am aware of this.

It's not a religion that I'm going to follow blindly.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 02:16 PM

I am interested to see how you convert your in-depth research into this percentage... Please do share.
It's not an exact science.

But put your money into a company with no stock, no sales, no orders, no defined market alongside increased operating costs associated with a bigger back shed, extra compliance/ listing costs, director fees and employees wages plus increased manufacturing costs which will cause margin squeeze and reduced turnover against a back drop where alternative technologies (Eg drones) are coming into play I'd say there is a 100% chance of loosing your money.

But I'm not a pessimist so I reckon there is a slim chance you will keep some of your money. Let's call it 5% but not quibble about a few percent here or there.

But the moment borrowing comes into play I'll move to 100% certainty since the bank will have first call on assets leaving shareholders with nothing.

And how close are they.$700k in cash at june. Burning $2m a year. Plus$3.7m from pre-ipo less ipo listing costs to date. I don't think there is a lot of cash left. I'd say around $500k. Some money from ipo gives extra equity, gives bank reason to lend. see where I'm heading with this?

minimoke

17-12-2014, 02:18 PM

Why do you think I haven't done my research?

because you said it is a gamble

robbo24

17-12-2014, 02:42 PM

And how close are they.$700k in cash at june. Burning $2m a year. Plus$3.7m from pre-ipo less ipo listing costs to date. I don't think there is a lot of cash left. I'd say around $500k. Some money from ipo gives extra equity, gives bank reason to lend. see where I'm heading with this?

So they got $6.5m (AUD, I believe) in the pre-IPO. They even had a pre-pre-IPO too.

You say it's $2m per year burn - sure, that's what it is then.

However, much of the costs to Ord were not racked up. Their services were never completed, nor are they necessary. You are making a completely unfounded stab that (a) the IPO costs are what you say they are, and (b) that the IPO costs will be money down the drain. You're off the mark my friend! :D:D:D:D:D

Another few years of cash up the sleeve at least - roll on the IPO :D:D:D:D:D

ShawnG92

17-12-2014, 03:57 PM

So they got $6.5m (AUD, I believe) in the pre-IPO. They even had a pre-pre-IPO too.

You say it's $2m per year burn - sure, that's what it is then.

However, much of the costs to Ord were not racked up. Their services were never completed, nor are they necessary. You are making a completely unfounded stab that (a) the IPO costs are what you say they are, and (b) that the IPO costs will be money down the drain. You're off the mark my friend! :D:D:D:D:D

Another few years of cash up the sleeve at least - roll on the IPO :D:D:D:D:D

Robbo,

I have been watching this thread since day 1 and at first I was at optimistic as you are.
Now minimoke is winning me over with his explanations. This company does not seem to push out communication on a regular basis and their backshed is getting bigger and the extension of their IPO seems like they are waiting for a "significant investor" to come along who ... may never end up showing up.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 04:46 PM

So they got $6.5m (AUD, I believe) in the pre-IPO.
That is what i thouhht to except the prospectus says $3.7m

They even had a pre-pre-IPO too. No. 8 Ventures? The prospectus only shows $700k in cash left

You say it's $2m per year burn - sure, that's what it is then. The prospectus actually says $2.9 but I didn't want to nit pick or cast too gloomy a picture

However, much of the costs to Ord were not racked up. Their services were never completed, nor are they necessary.
THey have provided services and they will expect their account to be settled in full. If Glenn thinks he can go it alone I think he needs to move on from a back shed DIY mentality. I reckon a manager ( no matter who) is absolutely necessary

You are making a completely unfounded stab that (a) the IPO costs are what you say they are, and (b) that the IPO costs will be money down the drain. You're off the mark my friend! :D:D:D:D:D
I have already conceded that time will tell. If you think you can do an IPO on the smell of a back shed oily rag I think you are off the mark

Another few years of cash up the sleeve at least - roll on the IPO :D:D:D:D:D They will sure need it for their next inevitable capital raising

Frostwind

17-12-2014, 05:10 PM

Hi All,

Long time viewer short time poster. Have been watching the happenings with this baby since day 1.
Invested in the stock myself but have recently lost confidence with their changing IPO dates.
Called up their investment hotline yesterday and tried to ask for to withdraw. Used the advice provided here and the person I spoke to put in an "inquiry." Will be calling back later today to investigate further.

Quite furious at their lack of updates and information.

Hi Shawn,

Please do share how your refund go. You can say after seeing the newly released information you now wish to withdraw your application. I don't think they have the right to deny you that, if you state that this newly renewed information is significant enough for you to change your mind.

I was going to apply some shares myself originally but I've changed my mind after a bit of thinking. I've asked my bank to dishonor the payment and refund my money. I've never paid bank fees with more joy!!

As it turned out, they extended the IPO anyway and I probably would have gotten a refund the legitamate way, without paying the dishonor fees, but I ain't taking no chances~!

Good luck on your refund :) Please share how it goes.

robbo24

17-12-2014, 05:28 PM

That is what i thouhht to except the prospectus says $3.7m

Please stop posting this garbage. You are either being needlessly antagonistic, or you are not very good at reading the prospectus. Or both.

I refer you to page 58 of the prospectus (https://events.miraqle.com/FormBuilder/_Resource/_module/LdVA_RwObUed5f-eaCYaJg/file/MartinAircraft_Prospectus_FINAL.pdf). It says Pre-IPO Capital raise of 3,669k This is as of 30 June 2014.

Now, cast your eye to the "Notes" at the bottom. I will set out Note 2 for you:

Pre-IPO capital of $3,988k has been raised subsequent to 30 June 2014. Costs in relation to this Pre-IPO capital of $319k have been incurred relating to advisor fees and these costs have been offset against contributed equity.

I really think you should stop trying to do the numbers. You're not good at it.

No. 8 Ventures? The prospectus only shows $700k in cash left

As of 30 June 2014, as above, you're not very good at this.

The prospectus actually says $2.9 but I didn't want to nit pick or cast too gloomy a picture

For one particular year, leading into commercial product, to which this IPO relates. Even then, prior to the pre-IPO and IPO the company was getting more than enough money from investors for this purpose as per page 60 of the prospectus. This is not a big deal.

THey have provided services and they will expect their account to be settled in full. If Glenn thinks he can go it alone I think he needs to move on from a back shed DIY mentality. I reckon a manager ( no matter who) is absolutely necessary

I'm not going to set out the remuneration provisions for you again. MJP and ORD decided not to go ahead with the services by agreement. If there was such a big hole in the costs then it would not be by agreement. In fact, the IPO just got cheaper than the costs you keep on quoting. You're just reiterating the same stuff and you're unfortunately making no progress on this front.

I have already conceded that time will tell. If you think you can do an IPO on the smell of a back shed oily rag I think you are off the mark

Great, you've conceded that time will tell. Excellent, time was of course waiting for you to make this decision.

They will sure need it for their next inevitable capital raising

By that stage it'll be too late for you to buy in at a bargain.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Put the money into some reading glasses instead.

robbo24

17-12-2014, 05:29 PM

Robbo,

I have been watching this thread since day 1 and at first I was at optimistic as you are.
Now minimoke is winning me over with his explanations. This company does not seem to push out communication on a regular basis and their backshed is getting bigger and the extension of their IPO seems like they are waiting for a "significant investor" to come along who ... may never end up showing up.

Minimoke is an internet troll. I'm more interested in your initial impressions - not taking into account my enthusiasm or minimoke coming out from under his bridge to bang the numpad of his keyboard and try to make sense.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 07:25 PM

Please stop posting this garbage. You are either being needlessly antagonistic, or you are not very good at reading the prospectus. Or both.

I refer you to page 58 of the prospectus (https://events.miraqle.com/FormBuilder/_Resource/_module/LdVA_RwObUed5f-eaCYaJg/file/MartinAircraft_Prospectus_FINAL.pdf). It says Pre-IPO Capital raise of 3,669k This is as of 30 June 2014.

Now, cast your eye to the "Notes" at the bottom. I will set out Note 2 for you:

Pre-IPO capital of $3,988k has been raised subsequent to 30 June 2014. Costs in relation to this Pre-IPO capital of $319k have been incurred relating to advisor fees and these costs have been offset against contributed equity.

I really think you should stop trying to do the numbers. You're not good at it.
If you refert to Note 2 on page 58 you'll see $3,988k pre IPO capital raised.Less the $319k in costs you end up with $3669K which is the figure I am referring to. Rounded up for simplicity sake so I apologse for not being absolutely precise for you.

As of 30 June 2014, as above, you're not very good at this.
The number I see on page 58 is $702k cash and cash equivalents as at 30 June. Is there somewhere else I should look

For one particular year, leading into commercial product, to which this IPO relates. Even then, prior to the pre-IPO and IPO the company was getting more than enough money from investors for this purpose as per page 60 of the prospectus. This is not a big deal. We'l lhav to agree to disagree. i think it a big deal when costs increase without any discernible revenue on the horizon. And to be clear revenue is from sales - not just people throwing their equity in. And lets be honest - thats all that has happened over the past 30 years. More and more equity thrown in and not a cent in sales in all that time.

In fact, the IPO just got cheaper than the costs you keep on quoting. Thats an interesting spin - pray tell how you arrive at that conclusion.

By that stage it'll be too late for you to buy in at a bargain.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Havent you noticed its too late already. Punters in this IPO are already paying a 70% premium on what the high net worht people paid. And you think you are getting a deal?

Put the money into some reading glasses instead. $3.50 down at the Warehouse. And I still reckon I'l get a bigger bargain than you.

minimoke

17-12-2014, 07:29 PM

Minimoke is an internet troll..Wounded by such a hurtful retort? No fear, I've got a thick skin. I've just called my local cake shop and ordered a big slice of humble pie under your name. I'll send you my address for delivery once this IPO business is over.

Anyway lets hear it from ShawnG92 for another view

minimoke

17-12-2014, 08:08 PM

That is what i thouhht to except the prospectus says $3.7m
No. 8 Ventures? The prospectus only shows $700k in cash left

Maybe I should be clearer. As at 30 june there was $702k in cash and $493k in current liabilities. So their real cash position is closer to $209K. That pretty much covers Julys operating costs.

Out of the Pre-IPO cash subsequent to 30 June it looks like $2.463k minimum as been tagged against IPO costs leaving around $1.2m in cash. $1m in operation costs from August to end of december leaves them around $400k in cash as at today. A decent chunk of that will go to their holiday and statutory holiday liability over the next couple of weeks.

I don't have my reading glasses on Robbo so you may need to correct me, as I am sure you will. But I reckon we really need to see a close of IPO this week so teh cash can start flowing back in before the tart of the year.

Frostwind

18-12-2014, 07:31 AM

Good morning people:

I'm an engineer myself and just want to comment on their engineering office:
6606

Couple of points I notice:
- The guy on the right shouldn't be browsing their webpages, shouldn't he open up SolidWorks or something?
- Looks like the room is poorly ventilated, if that's their flashy new wigram office then it looks pretty disappointing.
- Why is the office an open office? During intense design/calculations work you want minimal disturbance, and open office will increase the number of distractions and constant context switching is very taxing on the brain processing power. Should have dividers at least. See the two guy talking next to the whiteboard, and if they talk loud the rest of the people will be forced to listen.

All in all it looks like an average place to work in, from an engineer's perspective.

minimoke

18-12-2014, 09:18 AM

Good morning people:

I'm an engineer myself and just want to comment on their engineering office:
OK, if we are down to assessing their office, what about the ergonomics. Their monitors are way too low. Check out the guy down the back on the right. Awful posture and bound to be suffering neck / shoulder problems.

Couple of points I notice:
- The guy on the right shouldn't be browsing their webpages, shouldn't he open up SolidWorks or something? I think we can assume this is a set up. Closest monitor with a bit of "free advertising" of MJP

- Looks like the room is poorly ventilated, if that's their flashy new wigram office then it looks pretty disappointing. As an investor I dont want flashy offices. Spend the money on production facilities - assuming the sales team are doing their job

- Why is the office an open office? Because it saves money so have investors in mind. I like it.

During intense design/calculations work you want minimal disturbance, and open office will increase the number of distractions and constant context switching is very taxing on the brain processing power. Seriously, its taken over 30 years for engineers to overcome the problems with the Jetpack. I really don't think this environment will make a jot of difference

Should have dividers at least. See the two guy talking next to the whiteboard, and if they talk loud the rest of the people will be forced to listen. On the other hand may add to a collegian environment. And it saves investors the cost of the screens. Good!

All in all it looks like an average place to work in, from an engineer's perspective.I think you will find the engineers are more worried about whether they have a job next year rather than their work environment.

And the positives: only two people in shirt sleeves - the rest in jerseys suggesting they are saving money on the heating. Good!
One guy with a laptop. Hopefully working from home. Good!
3 sets of shelving - must be expecting loads of sales order document to fill the shelves. Good!

Harvey Specter

18-12-2014, 09:52 AM

One guy with a laptop. Hopefully working from home. Good!
3 sets of shelving - must be expecting loads of sales order document to fill the shelves. Good!THat laptop looks pretty think which means it is probably old and slow - dont you want a fast machine for dong advanced aeronautical engineering modelling?

Lots of shelves for sales orders but they look pretty bare to me :(

Frostwind

18-12-2014, 10:16 AM

According to the prospectus,

3m to June, without non-recurring operating expenses stand at $922K, in addition, listed company cost an additional $570k / 4, $476k belongs to R&D

So in short, per Quarter cost:
$1.06M for a listed company
$922k non-listed

Let's say they axe R&D completely after the jetpack go on sale in Q2 next year:
Operating Cost:
$600K-ish for a listed company,

So they need about 2-3M in cash to make it to Q2 2015, which they got from PreIPO, and you can always borrow more from the banks.

If IPO successful then they will have at least 7M to spare, without having to borrow or raise equity.

If they make $20k per jetpack, they need to sell about 30 per Q to breakeven (after axing R&D).

To justify a valuation of high growth stock, say P/E 50, at a market cap of about 100M

So, they need to sell about 220 jetpack per year. The US Military will probably buy tens of thousands at a clip. First respondence, rescue, Kim.Com, high rise building owners alike will probably buy thousands more, and with the current low oil prices, many important people in big corporations will replace their company vehicles to jetpack too, so I think the company has the potential to go to $500 from 50c.

Harvey Specter

18-12-2014, 10:19 AM

So, they need to sell about 220 jetpack per year. The US Military will probably buy tens of thousands at a clip. First respondence, rescue, Kim.Com, high rise building owners alike will probably buy thousands more, and with the current low oil prices, many important people in big corporations will replace their company vehicles to jetpack too, so I think the company has the potential to go to $500 from 50c.Sounds reasonable. :scared:

ShawnG92

18-12-2014, 10:32 AM

I was previously from the Military and a few comments above I mentioned I see practical use for the Jetpack.
Upon liasing with a few of my colleagues currently still in the Military, they've realigned me and can't seem to see a tactical purpose for this jetpack.

Transporting 1000 Soldiers would require a 1000 Jetpacks. It would be more cost effective to fly the 1000 Soldiers in Helicopters that would have a smaller capital outlay but slightly higher running costs. The engines on the Jetpack will not be quiet so your enemies would know your arrived. One Jetpack being shot down in mid-air would possibly result in the loss of the jetpack, which is a high capital investment.

As the days go by, I start seeing lesser and lesser uses for this jetpack, and it's a wonder why many other military organisations around the world with big fat pockets have not tried to develop something similar. Simply because there's no purpose for it !

Frostwind

18-12-2014, 10:34 AM

Hey Shawn,

Did you get your refund?

minimoke

18-12-2014, 10:37 AM

The US Military will probably buy tens of thousands at a clip.
I think this may be a bit adventurous. The military owned (as I recall) something like 250,000 Humvees over two decades at a cost of between - $65,000 and $160k each. So thats an annual average purchase of just 12,500 a year.

and with the current low oil prices, many important people in big corporations will replace their company vehicles to jetpack too, so I think the company has the potential to go to $500 from 50c.Or I could offer them a used Humvee for around $10,000. 1 jetpack parked in the bike shed or 20 Hummers at the front gate. Hard choice!

ShawnG92

18-12-2014, 10:45 AM

Hey Shawn,

Did you get your refund?

Frostwind.

Apparently this is in the process of happening. Can't confirm till the money is back in my hands :)

Frostwind

18-12-2014, 10:52 AM

ShawnG92

18-12-2014, 10:54 AM

Frostwind the engine's on the Jetpack are nowhere close to silent as evident in the videos you have watched. I would agree with you if the engines were battery powered and silent, but there are much cheaper ways to get to the hostage zone in Sydney then to fly in a Martin Jetpack which could be shot down !

minimoke

18-12-2014, 11:06 AM

How about short, intense surivleance operation with high-powered mounted camera .Problem alread solved and cheaply "Within minutes of the triple-0 call being made to police about 9.45am on Monday, Parker had trained three cameras on the cafe, including one with a powerful 600-millimetre lens. It allowed him to capture extraordinary, harrowing images of the hostages whose simple trip to a Sydney cafe on a Monday morning had landed them in very real danger." (http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2770087/sydney-siege-harrowing-images-captured-by-channel-seven-cameraman-greg-parker/?cs=12) . So we can cross that one off the list of potetnial uses for a Jetpack.

Harvey Specter

18-12-2014, 11:16 AM

How about short, intense surivleance operation with high-powered mounted camera and rifle, devices like this will be useful to rescue the hostages in Sydney. Just swap them out as their fuel run out. A team of special force can safely fly close to the hostage zone without being detected, and if in danger, it will still be able to fly away regardless of the ground situation. On the other hand, you cannot use a helicopter for this, as a helicopter is very noisy.Or use a battery powered quadcopter drone - you can get ones with (swappable) batteries which have a similar airtime to the MJP. Carrying capacity isn't as high as the MJP but that is probably because no one has built a $120k quadcopter yet.

GuessX

18-12-2014, 11:20 AM

First responders would be my best guess of use. Christchurch earthquake, Japan/Thailand Tsunami, 9/11 building collapse, Hurricane Katrina, rubble or water everywhere - impossible to drive into the area, areas too small to get helicopters in and around,

Being able to get up close and go from building to building to find survivors quickly. While the packs may not do the rescuing they can divert the resources to ensure they are best used.

--edit

yes drones could be used as-well, but having a human in the air gives better surveillance than looking at a monitor that is captured by the drone.

Harvey Specter

18-12-2014, 11:45 AM

yes drones could be used as-well, but having a human in the air gives better surveillance than looking at a monitor that is captured by the drone.THe drone could be fitted with IR cameras as well and can be viewed by someone other than the pilot whose first priority is on not killing himself.

minimoke

18-12-2014, 11:48 AM

First responders would be my best guess of use. Christchurch earthquake, .... rubble or water everywhere - impossible to drive into the area, areas too small to get helicopters in and around,

Being able to get up close and go from building to building to find survivors quickly.

6608

This is how its done in the real world

Frostwind

18-12-2014, 12:32 PM

It is a very compelling story with over 200M of sales in the pipeline according to the prospectus. Having said that their deadline seems to keep pushing out tho.

ShawnG92

18-12-2014, 06:05 PM

Refund has been processed. I'm over the moon ! :)

Frostwind

19-12-2014, 07:27 AM

Hey guys,

What website do you use to see the charts for ASX stocks, got any good recommendation?

BFG

19-12-2014, 08:10 AM

Hey guys,

What website do you use to see the charts for ASX stocks, got any good recommendation?

Big charts. Excellent selection of indicators and flexible SMA choice makes it my choice :)

Frostwind

19-12-2014, 10:44 AM

Thanks BFG :)

robbo24

19-12-2014, 01:11 PM

Thanks BFG :)

Still figuring out what this means :D:D:D I like the whole buying 37% of MJP and the many millions of dollars as consideration for that stake.

Here's some information: http://www.climaxintl-co.com/pdf/2014121961520E.pdf

And: http://www.noodls.com/view/6DFF40778F5693EA266D031272EC478D575F49D7?5160xxx14 18945747

Edit: Still haven't figured out what this means - way too hungover :D:D

Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited and The Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited take no responsibility for the contents of this announcement, make no representation as to its accuracy or completeness and expressly disclaim any liability whatsoever for any loss howsoever arising from or in reliance upon the whole or any part of the contents of this announcement.
KUANGCHI SCIENCE LIMITED

光啟科學有限公司
(Incorporated in Bermuda with limited liability)
(Stock Code: 439)
INSIDE INFORMATION -

INVESTMENT IN MARTIN JETPACK

The Board wishes to announce that on 19 December 2014 (before trading hours), the
Company and Martin Jetpack entered into the Investment Agreement.
The Company will (i) subscribe new equity and convertible securities in Martin Jetpack; (ii) acquire certain existing ordinary shares of Martin Jetpack; and (iii) incorporate HKCo together with Martin Jetpack for the development of Martin Jetpack's jetpack business in the PRC and Hong Kong.
Upon completion of the Subscription, the Acquisition and full conversion of the convertible securities, the Company will hold approximately 37.74% of the enlarged issued share capital of Martin Jetpack; and upon the exercise of the Option and the allotment and issue of the Swap Shares, the Company will hold approximately 52.0% of the enlarged issued share capital of Martin Jetpack.
Based on the applicable percentage ratios, the Subscription, the Acquisition, the setting up of HKCo and the exercise of the Option in aggregate do not constitute a notifiable transaction for the Company under Chapter 14 of the Listing Rules.
The Company will comply with the Listing Rules when the Option will be exercised.
Completion of the Investment Agreement and the transactions contemplated thereunder is subject to the fulfillment or waiver (as applicable) of a number of conditions as set out in the Investment Agreement. As such, the Subscription, the Acquisition, and/or the setting up of HKCo may or may not proceed. Shareholders of the Company and potential investors are advised to exercise caution when dealing in the securities of the Company.

1
This announcement is made by the Company pursuant to Rule 13.09(2) of the Listing Rules and the Inside Information Provisions (as defined under the Listing Rules) under Part XIVA of the Securities and Futures Ordinance (Cap. 571 of the Laws of Hong Kong).
The Board wishes to announce that on 19 December 2014 (before trading hours), the
Company and Martin Jetpack entered into the Investment Agreement.
REASONS FOR AND BENEFITS OF THE INVESTMENT AGREEMENT

The Group is principally engaged in (i) the novel space services and other innovative technology business; (ii) the manufacture and trading of paper packaging products and paper gift items and the printing of paper promotional materials; and (iii) property investment.
The Group and Martin Jetpack both shares the common vision as to develop disruptive technologies to benefit human beings and the world. The cooperation between the Group and Martin Jetpack would bring unprecedented novel space services to the world.
Through the investment in Martin Jetpack, the Group can share the advance technologies of the Group including advanced materials technology and computational simulation technology to support the development of the jetpacks. On the other hand, the Group will benefit from the aviation and flying technology from Martin Jetpack for the development of the civil near space flying apparatus, namely the Traveller, and the wifi broadcasting technology, namely the Cloud. The Group considers this investment is a stepping stone to establish a new research and development centre in Australia and New Zealand region and also to facilitates and support the launch of the Traveller in New Zealand by year 2015.
The Group considers that HKCo could establish the market for the jetpacks in the PRC and Hong Kong. The development of the jetpacks provides a comprehensiveness to the novel space services and other innovative technology business of the Group.
The Directors consider that the Investment Agreement and the transactions contemplated thereunder are in the interests of the Company and the shareholders of the Company as a whole.
THE INVESTMENT AGREEMENT

Pursuant to the Investment Agreement, the Company will (i) subscribe new equity and convertible securities in Martin Jetpack; (ii) acquire certain existing ordinary shares of Martin Jetpack; and (iii) incorporate HKCo together with Martin Jetpack for the development of Martin Jetpack's jetpack business in the PRC and Hong Kong.
2
The Company and Martin Jetpack further agree that immediately upon the incorporation of HKCo, the Company and Martin Jetpack shall use their best endeavours to procure HKCo to establish WFOE which will principally be engaged in research and development of Martin Jetpack's jetpacks and the sale and distribution of Martin Jetpack's jetpacks in the PRC and Hong Kong. Martin Jetpack undertakes to provide all such operational and/or technical support and resources to the Company and WFOE as reasonably required by the Company and WFOE for such purposes. Martin Jetpack agrees to grant to WFOE the exclusive right to research and develop undertaken in the PRC and Hong Kong, and also gives exclusive right to sell and distribute the jetpacks in the PRC and Hong Kong
At any time prior to the Maturity Date, the Company shall have the option to sell its
51% equity interest in HKCo to Martin Jetpack at a total consideration of AUD35.7 million (equivalent to approximately HK$226.6 million) which shall be satisfied by way of allotment and issuance of the Swap Shares.
Completion of the Subscription and the Acquisition is subject to the fulfillment or waiver of the conditions set out in the Investment Agreement. Martin Jetpack will use its best endeavours to ensure that each condition is satisfied as soon as reasonably practicable and in any event before 6:00 p.m. on 31 March 2015.
Upon completion of the Subscription, the Acquisition and full conversion of the convertible securities, the Company will hold approximately 37.74% of the enlarged issued share capital of Martin Jetpack; and upon the exercise of the Option and the allotment and issue of the Swap Shares, the Company will hold approximately 52.0% of the enlarged issued share capital of Martin Jetpack.
The Company has appointed a company as its financial adviser (the "Financial Adviser") to provide financial advisory services in respect of the transactions contemplated under the Investment Agreement, and has agreed to allocate a number of new ordinary shares of Martin Jetpack to be subscribed by the Company to the Financial Adviser as the service fee.
INFORMATION ON MARTIN JETPACK

Martin Jetpack, which is based in Christchurch, New Zealand, was founded more than
15 years ago. Martin Jetpack has developed a practical jetpack and is currently in the final design stage to build several pre-production jetpacks for further testing and demonstrations to potential customers. It can flown both manned and unmanned and carry certain payload.
Martin Jetpack has not generated any revenue yet as the jetpacks remain under development. Martin Jetpack plans to commercialise and manufacture the jetpacks and plans to produce and deliver the first jetpacks to first responder customers, such as the fire service or ambulance service and natural disaster recovery agencies, in 2016. After the first responder market, the Company will be targeting the commercial market including the farming, mining, oil and gas industry. The final product will be targeted at the recreational market.
3
To the best knowledge, information and belief of the Directors having made all reasonable enquiries, Martin Jetpack and its ultimate beneficial owner are third parties independent of the Company and connected persons of the Company.
IMPLICATIONS UNDER THE LISTING RULES

Based on the applicable percentage ratios, the Subscription, the Acquisition, the setting up of HKCo and the exercise of the Option in aggregate do not constitute a notifiable transaction for the Company under Chapter 14 of the Listing Rules.
The Company will comply with the Listing Rules when the Option will be exercised.
Completion of the Investment Agreement and the transactions contemplated thereunder is subject to the fulfillment or waiver (as applicable) of a number of conditions as set out in the Investment Agreement. As such, the Subscription, the Acquisition, and/or the setting up of HKCo may or may not proceed. Shareholders of the Company and potential investors are advised to exercise caution when dealing in the securities of the Company.

DEFINITIONS

In this announcement, unless the context otherwise requires, the following terms have the following meanings:
"Acquisition" the acquisition of the existing ordinary shares of Martin Jetpack by the Company under the Investment Agreement
"AUD" Australian dollar , the la wful currenc y of the
Commonwealth of Australia
"Board" the board of Directors
"Company" KuangChi Science Limited (stock code: 439), the ordinary shares of which are listed on the main board of the Stock Exchange
"connected person(s)" has the same meaning ascribed to it under the Listing
Rules
"Director(s)" the director(s) of the Company
"Group" the Company and its subsidiaries
"HK$" Hong Kong dollar, the lawful currency of Hong Kong
4
"HKCo" a limited liability company to be incorporated in Hong Kong and to be owned by the Company as to 51% and Martin Jetpack as to 49%
"Hong Kong" the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the
People's Republic of China
"Investment Agreement" the investment agreement entered into between the
Company and Martin Jetpack dated 19 December 2014
"Listing Rules" the Rules Governing the Listing of Securities on The
Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited
"Martin Jetpack" Martin Aircraft Compan y Limited, a compan y incorporated in New Zealand which is principally engaged in the research and development of jetpacks
"Maturity Date" the date falling on the expiry of a period of 30 months from the date on which Martin Jetpack is admitted to the official list of ASX Limited, which shall not be later than 30 April 2015
"Option" the option of the Company to sell its 51% equity interest in HKCo to Martin Jetpack at a consideration of AUD35.7 million (equivalent to approximately HK$226.6 million)
"PRC" the People's Republic of China
"Stock Exchange" The Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited
"Subscription" the subscription of new equity and conv ertible s e c u r i t i e s i n M a r t i n J e t p a c k a t t h e a g g r e g a t e co nsid era tio n of AU D44 mil lion (e qui v a len t to approximately HK$279.3 million)
"Swap Shares" certain new ordinary shares of Martin Jetpack to be allotted and issued as a result of the exercise of the Option
"WFOE" a wholly foreign owned enterprise to be established by
HKCo in the PRC
5
"%" percentage
By order of the Board
KuangChi Science Limited

Dr. Liu Ruopeng

Chairman and Executive Director
Hong Kong, 19 December 2014
As at the date of this announcement, the Board comprises five executive Directors, namely Dr. Liu Ruopeng, Dr. Luan Lin, Dr. Zhang Yangyang, Mr. Ko Chun Shun, Johnson and Mr. Ng Man Chan; and three independent non-executive Directors, namely Dr. Liu Jun, Dr. Wong Kai Kit and Mr. Lau Man Tak.
For illustration purposes, the exchange rate of AUD1.00 = HK$6.348 has been used to convert AUD into HK$ in this announcement.

BFG

19-12-2014, 01:34 PM

ShawnG92

19-12-2014, 02:45 PM

robbo24

19-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Care to explain more in detail?

Just a tad confused...
Are you saying that the IPO raised $70mil?

I'd say MJP will follow up with an announcement later on - keep an eye on announcements :D:D:D:D:D

Xerof

19-12-2014, 03:07 PM

Starting to look like a Thunderbirds replica, what with JP, Traveller and cloud already.

Are Lady Penelope and Parker going to be on the board?

That put option looks distinctly horrid for all other shareholders if thunderbirds are NOT Go

minimoke

19-12-2014, 03:12 PM

At any time prior to the Maturity Date, the Company shall have the option to sell its
51% equity interest in HKCo to Martin Jetpack at a total consideration of AUD35.7 million (equivalent to approximately HK$226.6 million) which shall be satisfied by way of allotment and issuance of the Swap Shares.

So $70M for the entire combined company eh?

Bet those who retracted their bids are a bit peeved right now!!!
hmm on the face of it good news but is this just deferring the inevitable to march next year.
Questions.
synergy between mjp and a paper gift / packaging company.

Alliance with a company that is going to record a loss.

Alliance with a company who has changed auditors.

Alliance with a company who has changed year end date.

conflict between PRC and US military

What are the conditions in the investment agreement

Can we expect Robbo to sporting a new Traveler in 2015

robbo24

19-12-2014, 03:19 PM

Can we expect Robbo to sporting a new Traveler in 2015

Minimoke is back (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRR-3_xOPcMQhl9wYpgbmMQOsTl-2t1ZYBg7FTXkaULGkQUNW81P9Gmd_MuTQ).

minimoke

19-12-2014, 04:45 PM

Minimoke is back (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRR-3_xOPcMQhl9wYpgbmMQOsTl-2t1ZYBg7FTXkaULGkQUNW81P9Gmd_MuTQ).
I hadn't left. So tell me, how much actual cash has been raised?

GuessX

19-12-2014, 07:22 PM

I hadn't left. So tell me, how much actual cash has been raised?

The agreement is for a long term strategic partnership which over time will see KuangChi Science have a major shareholding following up to a A$50M (approx NZ$53M) investment in MACL over the next 30 months. The initial part of the investment will be a cornerstone investment in the MACL IPO.

http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/158-martin-aircraft-signs-agreement-with-kuangchi-science-limited

Given they were looking to raise half of that for the IPO I think this is a significant annoucnement.

minimoke

19-12-2014, 07:56 PM

The agreement is for a long term strategic partnership which over time will see KuangChi Science have a major shareholding following up to a A$50M (approx NZ$53M) investment in MACL over the next 30 months. The initial part of the investment will be a cornerstone investment in the MACL IPO.

http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/158-martin-aircraft-signs-agreement-with-kuangchi-science-limited

Given they were looking to raise half of that for the IPO I think this is a significant annoucnement.at the risk of getting flamed by robbo this is finally the spin I've been expecting.

I love the website pointed to in mjp press release - the content is nearly fanciful.

Contrast with the Financial pages sites and you see a loss making paper gift company whose only interest in novel space innovations to benefit mankind was their interest in MJP.

Time for some serious DYOR.

minimoke

19-12-2014, 07:59 PM

I love the website pointed to in mjp press release - the content is nearly fanciful.

im going to cut the chinglish some slack but seriously?
"We sail on a beam of light;
We guide users into the photonic era;
We conceive electromagnetic wave transmission modes using metamaterials;
We help people freely navigate the mobile Internet;
We make innovative technologies sophisticated;
We make people's lives more smart.
Kuang-Chi – This is what we call ourselves."

minimoke

19-12-2014, 08:35 PM

Given they were looking to raise half of that for the IPO I think this is a significant annoucnement.
It certainly is. Especially from a company listed in Bermuda and a 99.7% interest in the paper industry and .7% interest in property investment..

Robbo, please tell me I am looking at two different KSl 0439 companies because I smell a rat.

robbo24

19-12-2014, 09:35 PM

im going to cut the chinglish some slack but seriously?

"Chinglish?" Really?

GuessX

19-12-2014, 09:36 PM

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1412/S00821/martin-jetpack-reviews-asx-listing-as-chinese-investor-commi.htm

minimoke

20-12-2014, 10:10 AM

Can we expect Robbo to sporting a new Traveler in 2015
My bad - not a jet pack after all. the"traveler" is a near-space balloon which floats at twice the height flown by commercial airlines, weighs approximately one tonne and is 40 metres in diameter, and is an advance on the similar balloons launched by Google last year. Looks like we can expect take off from a NZ farm in the not to distant future - early 2015 apparently. Essentially these guys are looking at taking on Google - now this is getting interesting. Look for Shanghai Pengxin to perhaps be pulling the strings.

robbo24

20-12-2014, 10:46 AM

The mcap of the company is 17b HK dollars (I think) which I guess equates to just over 2b AUD.

They are worth more than you, minimoke.

minimoke

20-12-2014, 01:06 PM

The mcap of the company is 17b HK dollars (I think) which I guess equates to just over 2b AUD.

They are worth more than you, minimoke.

Quite stella growth for a company that was only worth NZ$27m approx a couple of months ago.

So now the question is - wil you get any shares and wil the IPO continue.

MJP were offering 20% for $25m. For $50m I'd imagine you'd want at least 40% and a controlling seat on the board. Leaving folks with their $500 out in the cold?

Harvey Specter

20-12-2014, 07:35 PM

Looks like they get 50% for $50m which I think is a down round. Plus an (worthless?) put option.

Anyone understand the deal?

minimoke

21-12-2014, 10:41 AM

Looks like they get 50% for $50m which I think is a down round. Plus an (worthless?) put option.

Anyone understand the deal?
First let me wipe the humble pie from my lips. I was wrong, Robbo was right.

So how does the deal work?

I’m still trying to work it out but here is my first go – tainted by an inbuilt cynicism that anything that seems too good to be true probably is.

Back in September it was said that MJP raised $6.5m in an oversubscribed Pre-IPO. But it seems just $3.9m went into the books. Mainly from high net worth Australians and no mention of the Chinese.

Around this time KSL goes from a $27m paper gift company to a several $B “near space” technology company with 26 entities supplying it with a ton of cash.

October 2014. KSL appears not to have heard of Martin. If they had then they would already have been in negotiations. MJP press on with an IPO with 225m shares which they value at NZ$0.55. 50,000 shares on offer

On 21 November (before IPO original close date) KSL, John Key (on behalf of Airways Corporation) and Shanghai Pengxin Group Company Limited sign a MOU around granting access to farms and airspace for “near space” (presumably) balloon launches.

Around 24 November A company aligned with USA military signs $1m deal with MJP for the supply of Jet packs and simulator. No Mention made of the Chinese at this stage.

27 November IPO close date arrives and presumably minimum $10m in subscriptions not taken up but reference made to a significant investor. Next close date passes.

18 December KSL (ex Climax International Co Ltd) make a NZ$55m offer to MJP. At $0.55 this is 100,000,000 shares out of the 225m total capital. Or a 44% shareholding. Remembering $0.55 is already a significant premium over what the high net worth people paid just a couple of months earlier.

KSL reckon on completion of the Subscription, the Acquisition and full conversion of the convertible securities, KSL will hold approximately 37.74% of the enlarged issued share capital of Martin Jetpack; - so quite the premium on the premium.

There is also an option which will see them owning 52% of MJP.

So now to the deal.

KSL will put new equity in.
They will buy existing shares (No8 Ventures? High net Worth people? Glen?)
KSL will incorporate HKCo.
Then it seems MJP (49%) and KSL (51%) will acquire HKCo so it becomes a Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise (WFOE)
HKCo could establish a Jetpack market in Peoples Republic of China and Hong Kong. It seems to be part of KSL’s “novel space” vision – which seems to me a step from near ground first-responder idea to near-space aligned product. But there you go.
It seems MJP’s research will be owned by the WFOE. (so I am not sure how Avwatch in the USA feels about this)
Before a Maturity Date (31 March 2015?) KSL will sell its 51% in HKCo to MJP for AUD$35.7m through a Swap scheme. At this point KSL becomes a 52% holder of MJP

And why are they doing this. KSL recokon

It is principally engaged in novel space services and other innovative technology business (well I guess so in the past few months)
KSL and MJP have a “common vision as to develop disruptive technologies to benefit human beings and the world.” Their hyperbole, not mine.
“The cooperation between the Group and Martin Jetpack would bring unprecedented novel space services to the world.”
KSL will use the MJP technology in its “Traveler” (near space balloon) programme

So in a nutshell KSL gets 52% of MJP for AUD$14.3m ($50m - $37.5m). It gets the MJP fly-by-wire technology and the sole rights to sell jetpacks into the PRC and HK.

I think this is it but hope Robbo will steer me right

Harvey Specter

21-12-2014, 11:51 AM

My interpretation was slightly different. End result is fairly similar. [edit: where is MJP going to find the $$$ if the put/swap is exercised? Are they going to keep security over their equity investment?]

Robbo - your turn. Or are you still trying to find your rose tinted glasses.

Edit 2: Just re read and Minimoke looks to be correct.

BFG

21-12-2014, 12:12 PM

My interpretation was slightly different. End result is fairly similar. [edit: where is MJP going to find the $$$ if the put/swap is exercised? Are they going to keep security over their equity investment?]

Robbo - your turn. Or are you still trying to find your rose tinted glasses.

Chinese? Equity swaps? Space ballons? Inflated mCap over a period of 6 months?

Alarm bells really starting to ring!

minimoke

21-12-2014, 01:55 PM

Edit 2: Just re read and Minimoke looks to be correct.
Brave post!

robbo24

21-12-2014, 03:49 PM

I'm going to have a go at making a diagram of how it works.

I'm also going to outline some more information about KSL.

The silly season has been good to me so far so I'm a little bit behind in my posts..

robbo24

21-12-2014, 05:14 PM

I think this is it but hope Robbo will steer me right

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0ll6esjw6m18yj/mjpkls.pdf?dl=0

I'm not 100% sure that the following is necessarily true:

So in a nutshell KSL gets 52% of MJP for AUD$14.3m ($50m - $37.5m). It gets the MJP fly-by-wire technology and the sole rights to sell jetpacks into the PRC and HK.

The cash will obviously not be sitting there 30 months down the track (edit: so essentially the "minus $37.5m" you mention above isn't entirely accurate as it will be long spent)... However, it may very well be a very good deal for KSL if the MJP sells.

So essentially it seems the KSL are interested in having the opportunity to buy a majority stake in MJP.

The ASX listing has to go ahead otherwise none of this happens.

It may be a good indication to other "big boys" out there that the opportunity to buy a large stake in MJP could be at risk of expiring :D

robbo24

21-12-2014, 05:19 PM

As for "near space," here is a helpful little blurb from this site (http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/kuang-chi-science-00439hk-signs-first-space-service-operation-contract-expanding-business-hkse-00439-1946995.htm):

To explore and develop the Near Space for humanity, Kuang-Chi Science Ltd launched the program "Apollo", named after Kuang Chi's Apollo Base in Longgang District of Shenzhen. The base, surrounded by hills, was originally an abandoned farm that was used for raising pigeons. It is rebuilt by Kuang-Chi Science and now serves as the manufacture and testing base for near space exploration.

Near space is the region of Earth's atmosphere (http://ctt.marketwire.com/?release=1144453&id=4645567&type=1&url=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fEarth%2 7s_atmosphere) that lies between 20 to 100 km (65,000 to 328,000 feet) above sea level. The region, above where commercial airliners fly, but below satellites orbit, has remained unexplored. Compare to satellite, Near Space Aircraft cost significantly less in materials, launching and operation. Capable of powering itself and carrying more payloads, Near Space Aircraft is designed to have a long duration in near space and expected to provide more stable communication signal and high quality space service for the earth.

Where the Martin Jetpack fits into this, I'm not sure.

Frostwind

21-12-2014, 05:33 PM

is KSL a better buy than MJP ?

robbo24

21-12-2014, 05:44 PM

is KSL a better buy than MJP ?

Buying KSL may give you exposure to the fortunes of MJP, but it would also require you to be exposed to the paper, property and near-scape industries.

Look at the KSL share price over the last year - wow.

minimoke

21-12-2014, 10:04 PM

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0ll6esjw6m18yj/mjpkls.pdf?dl=0

I think the top right part of your chart needs amending to reflect the potential sale date of HKCo.

KSL, in its press release says "At any time prior to the Maturity Date, the Company shall have the option to sell its 51% equity interest in HKCo to Martin Jetpack at a total consideration of AUD35.7 million (equivalent to approximately HK$226.6 million) which shall be satisfied by way of allotment and issuance of the Swap Shares' (My bold / underlining). So I reckon it could bw anytime before 30 months after listing

robbo24

21-12-2014, 11:20 PM

I think the top right part of your chart needs amending to reflect the potential sale date of HKCo.

KSL, in its press release says "At any time prior to the Maturity Date, the Company shall have the option to sell its 51% equity interest in HKCo to Martin Jetpack at a total consideration of AUD35.7 million (equivalent to approximately HK$226.6 million) which shall be satisfied by way of allotment and issuance of the Swap Shares' (My bold / underlining). So I reckon it could bw anytime before 30 months after listing

That's what I get for downing pints all Saturday night.. Will take a look.

robbo24

21-12-2014, 11:28 PM

There we go - amended. "Good spotting," minimoke.

:D:D:D:D:D

ShawnG92

22-12-2014, 12:28 AM

A certain part of me is glad I got out when I did. I think things are about to take a turn and get a whole lot more complicated. This may have the benefit of some short term speculation when/if it does list but it's long term outlooks are getting shakier by the day.

Why is a company that is looking to go into space investing in one that is looking to create a jetpack? I hardly see any efficient synergies.

Maybe I need more research me thinks.

minimoke

22-12-2014, 06:54 AM

There we go - amended. "Good spotting," minimoke.

:D:D:D:D:D
You must have good spotting also becasue I cant see any actual dollar values of teh money initially coming into MJP.

KSL talk about "subscribing new equity and convertible securities" - but no dollar figure is attached

KSL say they will "aquire certain existing ordinary shares" again no ide how many, at waht price or from whom.

This seems a little strange to me given they have already specifically decided they have the option to sell to Martin HKCo for AUD$37.5m.

And a bit more editing in your chart - top left. Its not the waiver that needs to be met by 31 march, its the conditions being met by this date which will see KSL holding 37.7% of MJP (I'm wondering if you are being a bit presumptuous making this value AUD$44m - I can't see this figure anywhere).

Just as a bit of an aside I'm also wondering why KSL have "appointed a company as its financial advisor" - without naming the company. And said company is happy to receive MJP shares in payment. I'd have thought a company worth several $b could stump up a few bob and actually pay for advice in cash. Oh well, thats probably just me with my western mentality - perhaps things are done differently in China.

(Hope the hangover is gone and isnt due to your new found wealth in MJP!)

robbo24

22-12-2014, 08:45 AM

You must have good spotting also becasue I cant see any actual dollar values of teh money initially coming into MJP.

KSL talk about "subscribing new equity and convertible securities" - but no dollar figure is attached

KSL say they will "aquire certain existing ordinary shares" again no ide how many, at waht price or from whom.

On page 5 of this (http://www.climaxintl-co.com/pdf/2014121961520E.pdf) there is a definition of the word subscription, "...at the aggregate consideration of AU$44m..."

On page 4 the term "acquisition" is defined to mean the acquisition of ordinary shares.

Page 1 of that document says that upon completion of the Subscription and Acquisition that KSL will hold roughly 38%

The subscription does not go ahead unless fulfillment or waiver of all the conditions are satisfied.

Meanwhile, this (http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/158-martin-aircraft-signs-agreement-with-kuangchi-science-limited) says AU$50m which would indicate $44m of IPO/subscription shares and $6m of existing/acquistion shares.

We haven't seen the investment agreement, of course, so it is not possible to tell exactly what the deal is.

In my view, cash is coming.

:D:D:D:D

I don't see how KSL's choice of financial advisor is a concern to you. They are more than entitled to get confidential financial advice.

minimoke

22-12-2014, 09:03 AM

On page 5 of this (http://www.climaxintl-co.com/pdf/2014121961520E.pdf) there is a definition of the word subscription, "...at the aggregate consideration of AU$44m..."
So that is $44m new equity coming into mjp and $37.5m leaving MJP for the purchase of HKCO? Leaving a cash balance of $8.3m

Meanwhile, this (http://www.martinjetpack.com/news/158-martin-aircraft-signs-agreement-with-kuangchi-science-limited) says AU$50m which would indicate $44m of IPO/subscription shares and $6m of existing/acquistion shares.
The number of shares dont seem to be mentioned so it will be interesting to see what they are valued at; and who the beneficiaries of the cash will be.

I don't see how KSL's choice of financial advisor is a concern to you. They are more than entitled to get confidential financial advice.
KSL's choice is of no concern to me. I just find it interesting they are taking MJP equity as payment. I'd be wanting the cash - but that's just me.

minimoke

22-12-2014, 09:10 AM

In my view, cash is coming.

:D:D:D:D
.

You may well be right. So the next question is will you get any shares in the IPO or will you gave to buy on market.

robbo24

22-12-2014, 09:16 AM

So that is $44m new equity coming into mjp and $37.5m leaving MJP for the purchase of HKCO? Leaving a cash balance of $8.3m

The number of shares dont seem to be mentioned so it will be interesting to see what they are valued at; and who the beneficiaries of the cash will be.

Seems to me to be AU$50m for a potential 52% holding in MJP.

The $37.5m does not get "withdrawn" as cash, rather, KSL gets a majority holding in MJP who in turn gets 100% of HKCo. If HKCo goes ok then it seems to me that shareholders of MJP stand to benefit significantly (49% HKCo profits x [MJP shareholding] vs 100% HKCo profits x [MJP shareholding]).

My guess would be either a scaled sell-down across all shareholders (a nice little bit of a return on equity for holders) or perhaps one of the big stakeholders. A scaled sell-down of existing holders would be a nice little present for some cash in hand.

The $44m should be spent on commercialisation - it shouldn't be there as cash whether KSL decides to exercise its option or not. Besides, it's irrelevant anyway because the $37.5 is paid for in the issue of MJP shares to give KSL a majority holding.

KSL will also bear some of the costs of setting up HKCo and probably add value to the company in kind.

minimoke

22-12-2014, 10:01 AM

The $37.5m does not get "withdrawn" as cash, rather, KSL gets a majority holding in MJP who in turn gets 100% of HKCo. If HKCo goes ok then it seems to me that shareholders of MJP stand to benefit significantly (49% HKCo profits x [MJP shareholding] vs 100% HKCo profits x [MJP shareholding]).

I see the $37.5m is done through swap's but isn't this still $37.5 of value leaving MJP to KSL. Isn't KSL giving with one hand and taking with the other?

I'm also wondering what the amount of new equity coming in will be against the amount of convertible securities.

robbo24

22-12-2014, 10:27 AM

I see the $37.5m is done through swap's but isn't this still $37.5 of value leaving MJP to KSL. Isn't KSL giving with one hand and taking with the other?

I'm also wondering what the amount of new equity coming in will be against the amount of convertible securities.

Just remember what I said above... MJP shareholders then get a mightier share of HKCo... Well, arguably anyway. It depends how that transaction allocates shares to KSL, the increase in overall interest in HKCo may not be proportionate to the increase in holdings of HKCo. That is to say, the fact that KSL takes another 14% of MJP seems to me to dillute the interests of other shareholders, but still, if we presume HKCo goes well then it is still a net benefit.

Remember, KSL seemingly values MJP at about AU$100m.

An increase in value of HKCo and MJP makes the benefit to KSL appear to be very good, however it might not work. They are taking on a lot of risk but by the same token if they allow the ASX listing to proceed then they are doing holders (and IPO investors) a favour.

Who knows - if HKCo ends up being worth more than the AU$76-something million we can attribute to it going by the $37.5m=51% then the additional 51% of HKCo going to MJP holders will be a significant gain.

:D:D

Harvey Specter

22-12-2014, 11:47 AM

robbo24

22-12-2014, 12:18 PM

The existing shareholders being bought out could be the pre IPO round because they had a liquidation preference and this is a down round - purely speculation.

One things for certain, if they don't sell any jet packs, they could at least sell the movie rights - a drama/action/mystery/real life film.

Any mandatory sell-down has to be agreed in accordance with the company constitution/shareholder agreements. There will be a voting threshold. I happen to have a copy of both of these documents so perhaps I will take a look for you later :D

I'm not so sure it would just be the pre-IPO group - they hold ordinary shares like anyone else. The only way they can be dragged in is if Mr Martin and probably No 8 Ventures decide to do so... Otherwise, it could just be a wee sell down from one of these long term holders.

Just as an aside, I recall that holders of the current ordinary shares must offer the shares to other shareholders first (and show the Board they have done so) before they sell on to anyone else.

Not that it is relevant but I also seem to recall (somewhere on the prospectus) that some holders are required to hold the shares for 12 months before they can sell... And perhaps some big holders have something similar too.