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minimoke
10-09-2014, 06:44 PM
OK, I reckon time for us to show our hands if we feel so inclined. So I'll get the ball rolling.

Last time around I voted National for my electorate vote and ACt for my Party vote. This time around I am not giving National my party vote. Two main reasons. I think the sale of state assets was wrong. I also think Key, and in particular Brownlee have their heads in the sand as far as EQC is concerned. I'm still battling and have yet to have made any progress on my place. Four years on is too long - and I'm far from the worst off. ACT doesn't get my vote either. I think they have simply imploded with no credible option. I cant see my vote adding to the number of seats they have in parliament. I certainly don't want the Greens any where near Treasury and I'm not keen at all on Internet Mana having an influence so I cant put a vote near the left Block as that may give these parties a chance at the reigns.

So I've decided, despite the the god botherers to go with Conservative. I don't have any difficulty with the referendum issue - if the majority of the people are mad I'll bow to their wishes. $20,000 tax free earnings I think works well as a reward for getting into work. I have no difficulty with biffing miscreants in the clink and throwing away the key. And binning the Maori seats is good - let Maori vote for Mana or Maori party - there is no shortage of options to represent their interests.

There you have it. Your turn.

Minerbarejet
10-09-2014, 07:00 PM
This is all very nice but why are the Grrrrrrreens in there twice. Trying to double their vote?
Thats a bit sneaky.:)

slimwin
10-09-2014, 07:05 PM
I was going to vote labour if the polls looked like they'll win with a coalition (originally was because of one policy) as I want them the stronger partner. Decided to hell with it and will not as Belg has put me off left wing fanatics completely. Would have voted National as the natural opposite of Labour but Hekia Parata grinds me . Now they may need a coalition partner, I may vote winston first (with a grimace) as I can't stand right wing,bigoted nut cases like the conservatives either. Thats not saying they don't have the odd good idea,like most parties.

So,all in all, personality politics. Like most of NZ I suspect. Of note is my 85 y/o die hard labour supporter mother voted National today. She can't stand DC and is an athiest so that put her off the conservatives. Not sure why she didn't consider Winston. Maybe because she can smell bull s$&t a mile away.

Gerry gets my vote in ChCh. Haven't a clue who the other guy is. Sympahize with your troubles though Minimoke. Hope it sorts for you soon.

slimwin
10-09-2014, 07:07 PM
Of note also is a few young,white folks at work have voted Maori. Apparently they let vote compass guide them.

minimoke
10-09-2014, 07:12 PM
This is all very nice but why are the Grrrrrrreens in there twice. Trying to double their vote?
Thats a bit sneaky.:)
Thinking on the fly all parties have one leader. Except the Greens who have two. So they warrant two slots. You still only get to vote once

Minerbarejet
10-09-2014, 07:19 PM
Thinking on the fly all parties have one leader. Except the Greens who have two. So they warrant two slots. You still only get to vote once
Aaaaaaaargh. Im not voting, so there.:)




Said in jest, noah fence

BDL
10-09-2014, 07:27 PM
I think the Greens have some good policies and are really much more progressive than most of the others.
The dishonesty and underhand tactics of National should be a real concern to all voters.If you are prepared to go along with their behaviour then I think NZ is heading down a bad road.
So, Nasties no from me, I'd like the Greens to have more influence.

slimwin
10-09-2014, 07:34 PM
Good poll so far too mini. It's good to hear others reasoning. Everybody gets an opinion in a democracy and everybody has to accept it at the ballot box.
We're all wired a bit different aye.

fungus pudding
10-09-2014, 07:39 PM
I was going to vote labour if the polls looked like they'll win with a coalition (originally was because of one policy) as I want them the stronger partner. Decided to hell with it and will not as Belg has put me off left wing fanatics completely. Would have voted National as the natural opposite of Labour but Hekia Parata grinds me . Now they may need a coalition partner, I may vote winston first (with a grimace) as I can't stand right wing,bigoted nut cases like the conservatives either. Thats not saying they don't have the odd good idea,like most parties.

So,all in all, personality politics. Like most of NZ I suspect. Of note is my 85 y/o die hard labour supporter mother voted National today. She can't stand DC and is an athiest so that put her off the conservatives. Not sure why she didn't consider Winston. Maybe because she can smell bull s$&t a mile away.

Gerry gets my vote in ChCh. Haven't a clue who the other guy is. Sympahize with your troubles though Minimoke. Hope it sorts for you soon.

A vote for Winston first may well be a vote for Labour. If Winnie can screw the finance portfolio out of Cunliffe, that's where he'll go. He'll have to beat Norman to it, but that won't be hard. Cunliffe will have heaps of baubles to give out, because he'll lose a good few his top performers by the looks of things. And don't underestimate how much he wants to be P.M.

slimwin
10-09-2014, 07:54 PM
It may be FP. But as I said, if the polls looked like it was going to be a labour led coalition I would do my bit to make them the strong partner. The less worse evil in control. I think it's going to be an academic argument as it will be a national led coalition. I have a four y/o so education policy is important to me. Allowing Parata to be the head of something so important,and fail in my view, means I can't vote Nats. I suspect conservatives would carry on from where ACT left off by further damaging education.

I think Winnie would be happy with something juicy but not high demanding now. Who can really tell though.

minimoke
10-09-2014, 08:10 PM
... but Hekia Parata grinds me .
.
And theres my other reason for not voting National. I'd have her strung up if I could, I was so wild

slimwin
10-09-2014, 08:15 PM
Bringing back hanging sounds like a conservative policy. There may well be a referendum on it :)

fungus pudding
10-09-2014, 08:33 PM
And theres my other reason for not voting National. I'd have her strung up if I could, I was so wild

She made mincemeat of Hipkins in the last two debates with him. He's not ministerial material.

slimwin
10-09-2014, 08:43 PM
Hm. I think most parents look at policy not who wins a debate.

fungus pudding
10-09-2014, 08:55 PM
Hm. I think most parents look at policy not who wins a debate.

No doubt. She has a strong following among parents though, if not among teachers.

elZorro
10-09-2014, 10:02 PM
I have just voted on this poll, I'm apparently the first to vote for Labour on this thread, but all my research tells me that National have not been doing the job as well as they could have, and I almost always liked the look of the Labour Government, when they were in last time.

I hate being lied to, and National is doing that to us all the time. I'm surprised that even when this is pointed out by leaked emails and a book, National supporters and a fair chunk of the populace, choose to ignore them. It's real, we are being done, like a dog's dinner.

Minerbarejet
10-09-2014, 10:59 PM
I have just voted on this poll, I'm apparently the first to vote for Labour on this thread, but all my research tells me that National have not been doing the job as well as they could have, and I almost always liked the look of the Labour Government, when they were in last time.

I hate being lied to, and National is doing that to us all the time. I'm surprised that even when this is pointed out by leaked emails and a book, National supporters and a fair chunk of the populace, choose to ignore them. It's real, we are being done, like a dog's dinner.Think you have that right, dogs dinner on election day. Biggest ballsup since Dunkirk, pretty even split with NZFirst and Conservatives over 5 %, six weeks of negotiation followed by several inquiries, a royal commission, ombudsman, and eventually a LABNAT coalition to put it all to rest. Cunliffe can work with Key and get rid of the dogsbodies, rubbish and complete crepe that has become our burden. Lets get on with it then.

False Profit
11-09-2014, 06:26 AM
I voted but I had to keep a steady hand not to look at the current results lest I be swayed from the path of righteousness...

And when I did look? Nothing surprising to see here. Obviously we have very few bourgeois, liberal, commie, socialists inhabiting these forums. This is a sharetrading forum so did we expect anything other than the Nats to win?

I love my crooked government! Just in case those hard working boys at GCHQ are listening...

slimwin
11-09-2014, 06:28 AM
I think most people consider all politicians to be liars. So they pick the one they dislike the most and vote for another. I drink at a working man's Club. Labour heartland you'd think but not by the conversions about DC.

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 06:39 AM
I think most people consider all politicians to be liars. So they pick the one they dislike the most and vote for another. I drink at a working man's Club. Labour heartland you'd think but not by the conversions about DC.

Surely that's meant to be conversations. :confused: I doubt that he's converted one single voter. :p

minimoke
11-09-2014, 06:55 AM
And when I did look? Nothing surprising to see here. Obviously we have very few bourgeois, liberal, commie, socialists inhabiting these forums. This is a sharetrading forum so did we expect anything other than the Nats to win?
.
You might be right. But I am also wondering if people are thinking strategically. I don't there is any chance National will get more then 50% of the vote. That means there will need to be coalition partner/s to keep Labour (or in my case the Greens out).

Incidentally I think NZ is essentially a socialist inclined society and we really have a centrist government - there is not a lot of difference between National And Labour since both sit in that comfortable middle ground.

Its the parties that each needs which will decide the Left / Right drift down a continuum. Obviously the more seats a support partner brings the greater chance there will be a move up/down that continuum.

Early days with National on 59% of our Poll. Conservatives second with 13.6 and the bronze going to labour with 9%

craic
11-09-2014, 01:25 PM
Wonder why? It was a teacher who told me that my son was in the bottom 5% in his learning ability and would need special enrichment etc. He has a trade. He has an Honours Degree from London Uni. He has a career as a Vice President in the Bank of America. My daughter was denied accreditation for UE becuse she didn't work hard enough (she passed the exam) and her headmaster remembered that he was always chasding her off the football field because only boys were allowed to play (soccer) She has a multi million pound business in The Kings Road, Chelsea. The further away from education that teachers can be kept, the better.
No doubt. She has a strong following among parents though, if not among teachers.

Aaron
11-09-2014, 02:23 PM
I am a bit apathetic but I definitely have socialist leanings. The Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand commissioned a thought leadership paper(nearly switched off after "thought leadership") called "Developing a Plan for New Zealand's Continued Prosperity" from NZIER. In summary they suggested compulsory superannuation and raising the retirement age they also suggested broadening the tax base possibly through a capital gains tax. If this is what they come up with then Labour would seem to be the party with all the right policies. To me the choice is Labour or National the other parties can say what they like as they know they won't ever need to keep their promises. I have enjoyed the rise in power company share prices with National's strong polling and I would like to see the holiday highway go through up North but wonder if like a most people I am only voting out of self interest not what is best for the country long term. John Key may be a nice guy but his vision for NZ based on policy they have implemented while in government (upping GST, cutting top tax rates, scrapping child rebates, refusing to consider capital gains tax or addressing the need to look after our aging population)so far seems to favour those at the top of the heap. I admire him for pushing through with asset sales even though his own supporters didn't all approve. That is sticking to his beliefs which is admirable even if you don't agree with them. I just wonder if it is the best for NZ long term.

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 02:44 PM
I am a bit apathetic but I definitely have socialist leanings. The Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand commissioned a thought leadership paper(nearly switched off after "thought leadership") called "Developing a Plan for New Zealand's Continued Prosperity" from NZIER. In summary they suggested compulsory superannuation and raising the retirement age they also suggested broadening the tax base possibly through a capital gains tax. If this is what they come up with then Labour would seem to be the party with all the right policies. To me the choice is Labour or National the other parties can say what they like as they know they won't ever need to keep their promises. I have enjoyed the rise in power company share prices with National's strong polling and I would like to see the holiday highway go through up North but wonder if like a most people I am only voting out of self interest not what is best for the country long term. John Key may be a nice guy but his vision for NZ based on policy they have implemented while in government (upping GST, cutting top tax rates, scrapping child rebates, refusing to consider capital gains tax or addressing the need to look after our aging population)so far seems to favour those at the top of the heap. I admire him for pushing through with asset sales even though his own supporters didn't all approve. That is sticking to his beliefs which is admirable even if you don't agree with them. I just wonder if it is the best for NZ long term.

If you want businesses to expand, investment to increase, more employment then lowering the tax rate does that - as opposed to having every accountant and their clients devising ways to avoid tax. Just a few % changes behaviour. Given that our top rate kicks in at just 70k, 33% is still quite high. Collecting tax is like running a business. Imagine a motel owner, finding times a bit tight, not seeing enough customers thinks 'I know, I'll put the tariff up 20%'. Very soon he'll be surprised to see how well the camping ground down the road is doing. ........... We all have options..........

Banksie
11-09-2014, 03:16 PM
If you want businesses to expand, investment to increase, more employment then lowering the tax rate does that

Does that really happen over here? It seems we have a lot of capital tied up in residential properties, does this really grow the economy?

It may be a naive view but I see a cycle of tax being collected, given back to low earners as allowances or benefits (a large portion of which is used for rent), this money being paid to property owners (who don't make a profit), thus converting it into tax free capital gains. These gains can sit for years, unused and unspent, so do they really improve the economy?

Edit: maybe this isn't a lot of money, I have no figures to back this, it is just an observation.

Aaron
11-09-2014, 04:00 PM
If you want businesses to expand, investment to increase, more employment then lowering the tax rate does that - as opposed to having every accountant and their clients devising ways to avoid tax. Just a few % changes behaviour. Given that our top rate kicks in at just 70k, 33% is still quite high. Collecting tax is like running a business. Imagine a motel owner, finding times a bit tight, not seeing enough customers thinks 'I know, I'll put the tariff up 20%'. Very soon he'll be surprised to see how well the camping ground down the road is doing. ........... We all have options..........
I don't think anyone enjoys paying tax FP. Have another read. The suggestion is to broaden the tax base. I imagine if capital gains tax starts generating income for the govt then income tax or GST rates could come down. The problem with Labour is they need to get rid of the exemptions (own home etc) for the capital gains tax and even if they won I think now would be the worst time to try and introduce one as I have a personal belief that asset prices might fall in the near future(no guarantee but a basis for my current investments) handing massive tax losses to the overleveraged.
Also it sounds like you believe the mantra called "trickle down" as a theory I think it has been shown to be bull**** and the reality is wealth tends to trickle up. A taxation system is there to redistribute wealth as individuals won't do it voluntarily.(I won't). I have always wondered why NZ is such a great place to live compared to what I read about other countries. A lot of African nations have a lot more mineral wealth and natural resources than us but why have we prospered in comparison. Our close links to the UK prior to them joining the European Union may play a part but my opinion is that we have had reasonably honest leaders and governments (National and Labour) that have worked to the benefit of the nation rather than the every man for himself with everyone trying to screw over the next guy to get ahead attitude that seems to be permeating this country lately. I don't enjoy paying tax but as long as the people in charge are genuine and using it to make NZ a better place for all I can live with it.

Aaron
11-09-2014, 04:02 PM
If you want businesses to expand, investment to increase, more employment then lowering the tax rate does that - as opposed to having every accountant and their clients devising ways to avoid tax. Just a few % changes behaviour. Given that our top rate kicks in at just 70k, 33% is still quite high. Collecting tax is like running a business. Imagine a motel owner, finding times a bit tight, not seeing enough customers thinks 'I know, I'll put the tariff up 20%'. Very soon he'll be surprised to see how well the camping ground down the road is doing. ........... We all have options..........
I don't think anyone enjoys paying tax FP. Have another read. The suggestion is to broaden the tax base. I imagine if capital gains tax starts generating income for the govt then income tax or GST rates could come down. The problem with Labour is they need to get rid of the exemptions (own home etc) for the capital gains tax and even if they won I think now would be the worst time to try and introduce one as I have a personal belief that asset prices might fall in the near future(no guarantee but a basis for my current investments) handing tax losses to the wealthy.
Also it sounds like you believe the mantra called "trickle down" as a theory I think it has been shown to be bull**** and the reality is wealth tends to trickle up. A taxation system is there to redistribute wealth as individuals won't do it voluntarily.(I won't). I have always wondered why NZ is such a great place to live compared to what I read about other countries. A lot of African nations have a lot more mineral wealth and natural resources than us but why have we prospered in comparison. Our close links to the UK prior to them joining the European Union may play a part but my opinion is that we have had reasonably honest leaders and governments (National and Labour) that have worked to the benefit of the nation rather than the every man for himself with everyone trying to screw over the next guy to get ahead attitude that seems to be permeating this country lately. I don't enjoy paying tax but as long as the people in charge are genuine and using it to make NZ a better place for all I can live with it.

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 04:44 PM
Does that really happen over here? It seems we have a lot of capital tied up in residential properties, does this really grow the economy?

It may be a naive view but I see a cycle of tax being collected, given back to low earners as allowances or benefits (a large portion of which is used for rent), this money being paid to property owners (who don't make a profit), thus converting it into tax free capital gains. These gains can sit for years, unused and unspent, so do they really improve the economy?

Edit: maybe this isn't a lot of money, I have no figures to back this, it is just an observation.

Many property owners make money - good money, particularly the ones who never sell. Landlords are an essential part of the economy, and those who sell, traders and developers etc. pay income tax on sale profit as well as on rental profit. This is at taxpayer's marginal rate, very often 33%. I've been in the game for years and believe in stacking income - never selling (except on the rare occasion of trading up when I moved from residential to commercial.) I think we're likely to move into a long period of stable prices - it happens every now and then, and talk of CGT will die down. It has its problems and if there's little coming out of it the govt. will be better to forget it. Still as long as we don't end up with the Australian one moist property people will be happy enough, although I have my doubts about holiday home owners.

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 05:02 PM
I don't think anyone enjoys paying tax FP. Have another read. The suggestion is to broaden the tax base. I imagine if capital gains tax starts generating income for the govt then income tax or GST rates could come down. The problem with Labour is they need to get rid of the exemptions (own home etc) for the capital gains tax and even if they won I think now would be the worst time to try and introduce one as I have a personal belief that asset prices might fall in the near future(no guarantee but a basis for my current investments) handing tax losses to the wealthy.
Also it sounds like you believe the mantra called "trickle down" as a theory I think it has been shown to be bull**** and the reality is wealth tends to trickle up. A taxation system is there to redistribute wealth as individuals won't do it voluntarily.(I won't). I have always wondered why NZ is such a great place to live compared to what I read about other countries. A lot of African nations have a lot more mineral wealth and natural resources than us but why have we prospered in comparison. Our close links to the UK prior to them joining the European Union may play a part but my opinion is that we have had reasonably honest leaders and governments (National and Labour) that have worked to the benefit of the nation rather than the every man for himself with everyone trying to screw over the next guy to get ahead attitude that seems to be permeating this country lately. I don't enjoy paying tax but as long as the people in charge are genuine and using it to make NZ a better place for all I can live with it.

I agree that CGT should be on all property or none. Otherwise it is a bonus on home owners as opposed to tenants. There are other reasons. Yes, I agree property prices will stabilise or fall, but there's no tax bonus to owners (they can carry losses forward against future capital gains)
Of course money trickles down. You don't want to be at the bottom of the heap when it stops. (you were doing so well until that bit :D)
Like you, I don't mind paying tax as long as it's fair. Our system isn't too bad - considering WFF. We all miss out when tax rates get too high. I'm a great believer in the Laffer curve when it comes to tax. It has a very powerful effect on behaviour and investment/business decisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

In brief it says there are always 2 rates that produce the same amount.
We know that 0% produces nothing, and 100% produces nothing - because nobody does anything, or doesn't charge, or most usually trades in the black economy. The trick is to find the lowest figure that produces what the govt. wants - not the highest. The highest rate will not produce growth or sustainability.

Get your head around that and you're ahead of the pack.

westerly
11-09-2014, 05:10 PM
I have just been told I have already voted on this poll? Am I that forgetfull ?

westerly

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 05:13 PM
I have just been told I have already voted on this poll? Am I that forgetfull ?

westerly

Well you've forgotten how to spell forgetful. :D

westerly
11-09-2014, 05:20 PM
Well you've forgotten how to spell forgetful. :D

I had an idea it was wrong but was too lazy to look it up in the dictionary

westerly

westerly
11-09-2014, 06:23 PM
I had an idea it was wrong but was too lazy to look it up in the dictionary

westerly

Check out will in " Who will get your party vote "

westerly

minimoke
11-09-2014, 07:13 PM
Check out will in " Who will get your party vote "

westerly
Thanks you for pointing out my spelling mistake. i really look forward to the contribution posters can make on a thread and pointing out spelling errors is one of my highlights. Coming a close second is grammatical erroers - please feel free to make my day by continuing to find my mistakes.

fungus pudding
11-09-2014, 07:35 PM
Thanks you for pointing out my spelling mistake. i really look forward to the contribution posters can make on a thread and pointing out spelling errors is one of my highlights. Coming a close second is grammatical erroers - please feel free to make my day by continuing to find my mistakes.

I just have to ask - given the subject; what are erroers? :confused:

minimoke
11-09-2014, 07:56 PM
I just have to ask - given the subject; what are erroers? :confused:
Well its off to Hekia Paratas remedial reading class for you. NCEA level one - Unit Standard NAT89350 "Reading and Spotting Errors in Internet Forums" will be a "Fail" (oops lets call that Achieved on the basis of attendance and trying) if you don't

Minerbarejet
11-09-2014, 08:04 PM
I just have to ask - given the subject; what are erroers? :confused:You mean you dont know what erroers are? :scared:

They are the jokers that go off course during a rowing regatta.

Probably caught a crab. :)

Aaron
12-09-2014, 08:26 AM
Of course money trickles down. You don't want to be at the bottom of the heap when it stops. (you were doing so well until that bit :D)
Like you, I don't mind paying tax as long as it's fair. Our system isn't too bad - considering WFF. We all miss out when tax rates get too high. I'm a great believer in the Laffer curve when it comes to tax. It has a very powerful effect on behaviour and investment/business decisions.
I have always personally felt that once you are paying more than 50% tax then it is starting to get a bit crazy and yes I appreciate even now income tax 33% GST 15% doesn't include petrol taxes, ACC etc which does push it over 50%.
So you do believe in trickle down. How do you explain the growing disparity in wealth between the top 10% and the bottom 50%. In fact I would have thought you might not want to be at the top when the trickle stops. That would be when people start taking matters into their own hands and communism makes more sense than the current system.

westerly
12-09-2014, 08:33 AM
Thanks you for pointing out my spelling mistake. i really look forward to the contribution posters can make on a thread and pointing out spelling errors is one of my highlights. Coming a close second is grammatical erroers - please feel free to make my day by continuing to find my mistakes.

The big question was why would my first and only vote be refused with the " you have already voted reply"

westerly

Banksie
12-09-2014, 08:47 AM
The big question was why would my first and only vote be refused with the " you have already voted reply"

westerly

Dirty politics mate, someone has voted on your behalf ;).

fungus pudding
12-09-2014, 08:49 AM
I have always personally felt that once you are paying more than 50% tax then it is starting to get a bit crazy and yes I appreciate even now income tax 33% GST 15% doesn't include petrol taxes, ACC etc which does push it over 50%.
So you do believe in trickle down. How do you explain the growing disparity in wealth between the top 10% and the bottom 50%.

if you study the statistics rather than listening to the noise you will find the gap between the so called rich and so called poor is not growing. Nothing has changed for nearly 3 decades.

Banksie
12-09-2014, 09:34 AM
if you study the statistics rather than listening to the noise you will find the gap between the so called rich and so called poor is not growing. Nothing has changed for nearly 3 decades.

You are right, below is a graph of the Gini coefficient, commonly used to measure inequality, showing NZ jumped (in the mid 90s) from well below the OECD average to well above the OECD average. Once there it has remained pretty static for the last 30 year.

This means we have a whole generation of economically active people (I am in this group) who see this as being the norm. But is it right, shouldn't we be trying to return to a pre-90s position?

6242

Edit: I might be wrong here but wasn't it the policies that promoted the "trickle down effect" that caused the big jump in the mid 90s?

fungus pudding
12-09-2014, 10:12 AM
You are right, below is a graph of the Gini coefficient, commonly used to measure inequality, showing NZ jumped (in the mid 90s) from well below the OECD average to well above the OECD average. Once there it has remained pretty static for the last 30 year.

This means we have a whole generation of economically active people (I am in this group) who see this as being the norm. But is it right, shouldn't we be trying to return to a pre-90s position?

6242

Edit: I might be wrong here but wasn't it the policies that promoted the "trickle down effect" that caused the big jump in the mid 90s?

Those reforms made NZ a far wealthier country. Some benefitted more than others, but the fault lay in the way things were -a highly restricted and controlled economy heading for disaster. Not the way things have become. The easiest way to make everyone equal, in fact the only way, is to make everyone poor.

ari
12-09-2014, 10:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_electi on,_2011

Found this history interesting.

Banksie
12-09-2014, 11:40 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_electi on,_2011

Found this history interesting.

Pre election polls are remarkable similar to what we are seeing today.

ari
12-09-2014, 02:28 PM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11323538

minimoke
12-09-2014, 04:46 PM
The big question was why would my first and only vote be refused with the " you have already voted reply"

westerlyI've. No idea.perhaps a question for administration who might know how these things work. Certainly no conspiracy on my part to block certain votes

minimoke
13-09-2014, 09:22 AM
Pre election polls are remarkable similar to what we are seeing today.
One week out and its the poll all politicians have their eyes on. The Shartrader:Moke poll is showing a fall off in support for National from a high of 59% now down to 53%, still enough to govern alone. National loss is the surprise movers gain, Conservatives up 6% to 18%. Green support has waned 1%, down to 8% to Labors benefit up 1% to 10%.

King maker in waiting Winston Peters party is just below the important 5% threshold at 4%. ACT is failing to get traction sitting at 2% but they are hoping their "Guns in Shops" will appeal to Asian Community.

It appears Mana Internet are either too stoned or are having technical issues as they are failing to register at all.

United Future still failing to register but we have it on good authority from insiders withing the PSA (Sources who can not be named since Moke is claimed Journalistic Privilege) that hairdressers within the beltway are doing a thriving trade - indicating voters are preferring to spend their time selecting hair products and tidying up their bouffant locks ahead of polling day.

Undecided voters have yet to declare their hand.

The margin of error is 0.00023%.

fungus pudding
13-09-2014, 10:05 AM
One week out and its the poll all politicians have their eyes on. The Shartrader:Moke poll is showing a fall off in support for National from a high of 59% now down to 53%, still enough to govern alone. National loss is the surprise movers gain, Conservatives up 6% to 18%. Green support has waned 1%, down to 8% to Labors benefit up 1% to 10%.

King maker in waiting Winston Peters party is just below the important 5% threshold at 4%. ACT is failing to get traction sitting at 2% but they are hoping their "Guns in Shops" will appeal to Asian Community.

It appears Mana Internet are either too stoned or are having technical issues as they are failing to register at all.


Fascinating interview on Campbell last night with a woman nearly wetting herself with excitement over the free internet policy. Slight problem for her is she hasn't got a computer. 'Nobody around here's got one of them.'

jonu
13-09-2014, 01:48 PM
A bit rough including the Maori Party as "other".

fungus pudding
13-09-2014, 01:57 PM
This is all very nice but why are the Grrrrrrreens in there twice. Trying to double their vote?
Thats a bit sneaky.:)

That's probably supposed to be Maori party.

minimoke
13-09-2014, 02:47 PM
That's probably supposed to be Maori party.
You are correct and I'd change if I could but I cant seem to. Given Maori are polling in the Herald Digi around 0.7%, a minor party with no guarantee of a seat they are probably still in the right place - as an unidentified party in this poll.

fungus pudding
13-09-2014, 03:07 PM
You are correct and I'd change if I could but I cant seem to. Given Maori are polling in the Herald Digi around 0.7%, a minor party with no guarantee of a seat they are probably still in the right place - as an unidentified party in this poll.

They'll get at least two seats, and they deserve to.

minimoke
13-09-2014, 03:33 PM
They'll get at least two seats, and they deserve to.
You could be right. What was Cunliffe thinking by excluding Maori from a coalition?

fungus pudding
13-09-2014, 04:01 PM
You could be right. What was Cunliffe thinking by excluding Maori from a coalition?

I don't know. I doubt that any of his colleagues know either.

neopoleII
13-09-2014, 05:51 PM
the maori party IMHO is a very good party that tried hard and could of been something special in NZ politics........
but then..... it mandated an overtly high tobacco tax onto its core supporters and the rest of the population and its
place in NZ politics is almost over.
The tobacco tax hauls in well over a billion$$ a year, and our hospitals are full of????
fat folks and diabetes suffers.
this is why the maori party is rating so low.
why is it that NZ has to be the first country in the world to go smoke free?
is it an international experiment?
is it to test (as a small first world country) if having a smoke free country is healthy for society?
or is it a way to get an easy billion?
if NZ society was a healthy eating country then I would say ...... yes..... being smoke free is an added bonus.
but having a nation of over weight people who a clogging the health system and then pushing the smoke free issue is wrong.
even booze hurts our nation much more..... all the accidents...... all the violence...... all the domestic disputes......
all the crime..... and yet....... NZ smoke free is the second biggest topic next to feed the 1/4 million poverty stricken children.
in a land of 4.4 million people... and endless welfare...... how come most of the children in NZ are labelled as poverty stricken?
oh well..... politics in the 21 century.

minimoke
15-09-2014, 05:50 PM
Five days out the Shartrader:Moke poll is still the poll the politicians have their eye on. Not reliant on landline phones the poll has a margin of error of 0.000348%

Support for National continues to trail away, now on that tipping point of 50%, just enough to govern alone with support from Act (now up to 3.57% clearly on the back of "Guns in Shops") and United Future who are still proving to be a waste of space.

Conservatives continue their climb now up to 21.4%

Green support wanes further, down to 7% and rumors of Cunliffes infidelity seem to have hit Labour hard, down to 1% to 9%.

King maker in waiting Winston Peters party is now perhaps looking the Bridesmaid, down to 4% below the important 5% threshold.

All eyes are on Mana Internet and the king hit expected tonight to elevate them up the polls. Hopes are high that shock revelations on Hollywood back room deals and government surveillance. Support for their cannabis policy remains high among supporters who continue to be totally unaware of Dotoms appeal (or lack of) to the broader electorate

In BREAKING NEWS the NZ media is boycotting this poll as it is deemed to be taking the election far too seriously and isn't nearly close enough to the gutter dirt and irrelevant dross the mainstream media insists the NZ public really wants.

Minerbarejet
15-09-2014, 07:16 PM
the maori party IMHO is a very good party that tried hard and could of been something special in NZ politics........
but then..... it mandated an overtly high tobacco tax onto its core supporters and the rest of the population and its
place in NZ politics is almost over.
The tobacco tax hauls in well over a billion$$ a year, and our hospitals are full of????
fat folks and diabetes suffers.
this is why the maori party is rating so low.
why is it that NZ has to be the first country in the world to go smoke free?
is it an international experiment?
is it to test (as a small first world country) if having a smoke free country is healthy for society?
or is it a way to get an easy billion?
if NZ society was a healthy eating country then I would say ...... yes..... being smoke free is an added bonus.
but having a nation of over weight people who a clogging the health system and then pushing the smoke free issue is wrong.
even booze hurts our nation much more..... all the accidents...... all the violence...... all the domestic disputes......
all the crime..... and yet....... NZ smoke free is the second biggest topic next to feed the 1/4 million poverty stricken children.
in a land of 4.4 million people... and endless welfare...... how come most of the children in NZ are labelled as poverty stricken?
oh well..... politics in the 21 century.
One area of tax or licencing we dont have is for procreation.
Shame really, sure it would be very productive.:)

minimoke
17-09-2014, 05:58 PM
In BREAKING NEWS Annette Sykes has this evening announced that the Sharetrader:Moke poll has won the prestigious Internet Mana Poll of the Millennium Award. “All other polls are too far behind the issue and don’t represent our whanuas thoughts at current time” Sykes said during the Award ceremony. “Too many polls cow tow to the bourgeoisie concept that the only valid opinions are those that are available through landline phones. Our mokupuna are more enlightened with mobile technology and much prefer real time responses to pollsters questions”

But we interrupt this news with the shock revelation that over 49% of those polled do not want to place their party vote with National.

Despite this revelation support for Labour continues to fall, down to 8.5%, Greens are down to 6.8% and in a backlash against the news that Winston fancies himself as preferred Prime Minister NZ First are down below 3.4%.

National is still pivoting around the 50% mark but the Conservatives are the surprise movers, continuing their climb to over 22%

Mana Internet appeared weighed down by a hefty German and his failure to deliver the death blow as expected on Monday night. They are still failing to register a single vote, in good company with United Future.

We expect one more poll to be released before Saturday. However we are experiencing some radio interference, despite being in our lead lined bunker, which is affecting our fibre optic communications. Early adopters of Iphone 6 can expect a free install of X-PEA (our newly released Poll Encryption App) which will ensure their anonymity is secure from prying eyes.

elZorro
17-09-2014, 06:44 PM
Newsflash from our Wi-Fi link: the vote percentages for National and Conservatives are hardly surprising, on a computer forum populated by those with enough spare cash and time to trade in shares. What is more surprising, is that anyone votes Labour or Greens.

fungus pudding
17-09-2014, 06:50 PM
What is more surprising, is that anyone votes Labour or Greens.


Indeed it is, but today's Roy Morgan poll shows there aren't many who do.


http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/roy-morgan-poll-shows-nats-extending-lead-labourgreens-fading-bd-162546

jonu
17-09-2014, 07:02 PM
My, my, what a right wing bunch we would appear to be if the poll has any veracity. Interesting that this poll for National is not too dissimilar to the mainstream polls, it's the other parties that vary wildly- particularly the Conservatives. I'm sure Colin James could keep on for hours about the different permutations!

Joshuatree
17-09-2014, 07:06 PM
Newsflash from our Wi-Fi link: the vote percentages for National and Conservatives are hardly surprising, on a computer forum populated by those with enough spare cash and time to trade in shares. What is more surprising, is that anyone votes Labour or Greens.

Touche. It nakedly exposes those well off who want to make their pools of cash bigger; stuff the rest of NZ.
They don't care re the environment and flatly deny the Global Warming , or pollution problems.
Tunnel vision, conservative, keystruck, squinting. Selling off NZ because foreigners will pay them more, gluttony, instant gratification.
Mind you even scrooges if poked hard enough can find compassion and theres the hope.:) (speaking generally apologies to a few)

Snow Leopard
17-09-2014, 07:32 PM
Just gave that nice Mr Dunne a vote.
We can't have him on zero!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

jonu
17-09-2014, 07:45 PM
Just gave that nice Mr Dunne a vote.
We can't have him on zero!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Well we could PT. I wouldn't have objected over much if he had remained on 0%. Time for the pompous old f**t to make use of the overly generous super scheme to which they are "entitled". ;p

Okebw
17-09-2014, 07:45 PM
Newsflash from our Wi-Fi link: the vote percentages for National and Conservatives are hardly surprising, on a computer forum populated by those with enough spare cash and time to trade in shares. What is more surprising, is that anyone votes Labour or Greens.

Too true. I voted on campus today and I must say the general sentiment about for the younger crowd is labour/greens. Though more so because they're after a change and not strictly that they agree with the parties/policies.

On the plus side they were handing out bags of lollies when it came time to vote :)

Aaron
18-09-2014, 07:38 AM
Of course money trickles down. You don't want to be at the bottom of the heap when it stops. (you were doing so well until that bit :D)
Like you, I don't mind paying tax as long as it's fair. Our system isn't too bad - considering WFF. We all miss out when tax rates get too high. I'm a great believer in the Laffer curve when it comes to tax. It has a very powerful effect on behaviour and investment/business decisions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

Hey FP
Wrong part of the country for you but Peter Lyons opinion piece in the NZ Herald seems to favour my view on trickle down. Don't attack the poor guy for being a left leaning liberal bleeding heart school teacher. Open your mind and accept that you view might be wrong.

fungus pudding
18-09-2014, 07:42 AM
Hey FP
Wrong part of the country for you but Peter Lyons opinion piece in the NZ Herald seems to favour my view on trickle down. Don't attack the poor guy for being a left leaning liberal bleeding heart school teacher. Open your mind and accept that you view might be wrong.

Discourage the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers, the leaders and you'll seen see which way the money was flowing.

nextbigthing
18-09-2014, 07:59 AM
Aaron a link would be useful

minimoke
18-09-2014, 06:03 PM
Due to the quite unexpected departure of my media manager there will be no poll update until a replacement is found. Expect transmission to resume shortly.

Minerbarejet
18-09-2014, 06:44 PM
Due to the quite unexpected departure of my media manager there will be no poll update until a replacement is found. Expect transmission to resume shortly.Thought so - wondered why the conservatives were in italics - bit of a slanted view there minimoke?
Snap reckons its good advertising though.:)

minimoke
18-09-2014, 07:05 PM
Thought so - wondered why the conservatives were in italics - bit of a slanted view there minimoke? - hmm not sure how that happened. Pretty sure I didn't get the option to do that when I set the Poll up. I suspect it is divine intervention. But I note there was no such intervention when I messed up and put 2 x Greens instead of 1 x Green and 1 x Maori

winner69
18-09-2014, 07:11 PM
Due to the quite unexpected departure of my media manager there will be no poll update until a replacement is found. Expect transmission to resume shortly.

Just having a day off I hear

Unresigned?

nextbigthing
18-09-2014, 07:29 PM
- hmm not sure how that happened. Pretty sure I didn't get the option to do that when I set the Poll up. I suspect it is divine intervention. But I note there was no such intervention when I messed up and put 2 x Greens instead of 1 x Green and 1 x Maori

You raise a great point. Because the Greens have two leaders we will have to halve their vote on Saturday so they just get a total of 7% to make it fair.

minimoke
18-09-2014, 07:33 PM
Double hmmm - how do we go from 68 votes to 93 in just a few minutes. I suspect JK's spooks might be hacking the poll! Or my Media Manager has been busy....

Major von Tempsky
18-09-2014, 08:05 PM
Touche. It nakedly exposes those well off who want to make their pools of cash bigger; stuff the rest of NZ.
They don't care re the environment and flatly deny the Global Warming , or pollution problems.
Tunnel vision, conservative, keystruck, squinting. Selling off NZ because foreigners will pay them more, gluttony, instant gratification.
Mind you even scrooges if poked hard enough can find compassion and theres the hope.:) (speaking generally apologies to a few)

Joshuatree is stuck in a time warp and I presume he has sworn an affidavit he will never study economics.

Josh, can you not realize that yours is a very static analysis when you need a dynamic one?

It is far far better to grow the cake than to divide it equally ensuring that the cake won't grow but in fact it will shrink? You are never going to find a way to ensure people are born equal and will achieve equally. You absolutely need an incentive effect so that people who achieve more are paid more.
You need to ensure a minimum safety net so that people won't starve but are encouraged to study and get a job. You also need an incentive to get people to move to where the jobs are. It's no good people sitting in Kaitaia and smoking dope, saying they can't get a job and everyone is agin them so therefore they are voting Labour.

elZorro
18-09-2014, 08:17 PM
Joshuatree is stuck in a time warp and I presume he has sworn an affidavit he will never study economics.

Josh, can you not realize that yours is a very static analysis when you need a dynamic one?

It is far far better to grow the cake than to divide it equally ensuring that the cake won't grow but in fact it will shrink? You are never going to find a way to ensure people are born equal and will achieve equally. You absolutely need an incentive effect so that people who achieve more are paid more.
You need to ensure a minimum safety net so that people won't starve but are encouraged to study and get a job. You also need an incentive to get people to move to where the jobs are. It's no good people sitting in Kaitaia and smoking dope, saying they can't get a job and everyone is agin them.

MVT, if you really did study economics, growing the cake might have been one of the topics. If you take the time to have a look on the StatsNZ website, you'll see that Labour did that brilliantly in their last 9 years of government. The tax take went up, unemployment went down, the number of SMEs increased, the GDP/capita increased. They also achieved budget surpluses. National has not been able to achieve most of these modest targets, and in fact are still clawing back to a position that Labour had the country in, back in 2008.

So it strikes me that Labour policies worked then, and that they will work even better in future. National didn't have a clue how to handle a headwind.

Would you like to put a figure on how many people are on the dole in Kaitaia, who would readily be able to find a job in, say, Auckland? And would the pay cover their living costs? Know of any manufacturers taking on staff? 42,000 less jobs in that sector alone.

What we need is a government prepared to establish the incentives for regional businesses. Export manufacturing is a good start.

minimoke
18-09-2014, 09:21 PM
...National didn't have a clue how to handle a headwind.

That is patently false. National came up with the idea of the cycleway!

nextbigthing
18-09-2014, 09:25 PM
MVT, if you really did study economics, growing the cake might have been one of the topics. If you take the time to have a look on the StatsNZ website, you'll see that Labour did that brilliantly in their last 9 years of government. The tax take went up, unemployment went down, the number of SMEs increased, the GDP/capita increased. They also achieved budget surpluses. National has not been able to achieve most of these modest targets, and in fact are still clawing back to a position that Labour had the country in, back in 2008.

So it strikes me that Labour policies worked then, and that they will work even better in future. National didn't have a clue how to handle a headwind.

Would you like to put a figure on how many people are on the dole in Kaitaia, who would readily be able to find a job in, say, Auckland? And would the pay cover their living costs? Know of any manufacturers taking on staff? 42,000 less jobs in that sector alone.

What we need is a government prepared to establish the incentives for regional businesses. Export manufacturing is a good start.

el Z that's an absolute load of rubbish, even your mate DC has been keen to admit during all three leaders debates that National inherited a hospital pass from Labour in terms of the GFC and have done a good job getting us through it. DC's own words.
So claiming something like this just disrespects your intelligence el Z.

iceman
18-09-2014, 09:34 PM
el Z that's an absolute load of rubbish, even your mate DC has been keen to admit during all three leaders debates that National inherited a hospital pass from Labour in terms of the GFC and have done a good job getting us through it. DC's own words.
So claiming something like this just disrespects your intelligence el Z.

That shouldn't surprise NBT. EZ and his mate the disappeared, abandoned and very angry Belg have never acknowledged the GFC, compounded by the Chch earthquakes.

What I would like them to do instead of comparing current National Government with yesteryear, is to compare NZ with Australia during those 2 periods. That would clearly show NZ going backwards against Australia during the Clarke Government years and very fast forward during Key Government years.
That indicates huge opportunities lost during the booming (in the World) Clarke/Cullen years.

elZorro
18-09-2014, 09:47 PM
That shouldn't surprise NBT. EZ and his mate the disappeared, abandoned and very angry Belg have never acknowledged the GFC, compounded by the Chch earthquakes.

What I would like them to do instead of comparing current National Government with yesteryear, is to compare NZ with Australia during those 2 periods. That would clearly show NZ going backwards against Australia during the Clarke Government years and very fast forward during Key Government years.
That indicates huge opportunities lost during the booming (in the World) Clarke/Cullen years.

Iceman and NBT, I'm sitting here waiting for you to disprove what I said, which of my stats is wrong? I think you'll find that David Cunliffe admits that Labour would have needed to borrow somewhat to get through the GFC, but of course the Treasury deficit figures being forecast in toto back then, were far less than National ran up. National tried to borrow big, rather than think big, in the hope that they could dig us out faster than Treasury was expecting. Their other policy settings were meant to keep a cap on wages, and so many jobs were sacrificed. They successfully shrank the pie, the dead opposite of what they implied they would do. This was our bright future, keeping the party that's pretending to be working.

craic
18-09-2014, 10:01 PM
And thats why so many Kiwis are coming back to NZ during this National govts reign. I don't know how much effort you put into the Labour Cause outside this forum LZ but I am very surprised that you do not see that your efforts here are futile. You wont make a single convert here and together with the fellow whom you beg to return, you have probably lost a vote or two.

nextbigthing
18-09-2014, 10:05 PM
GFC. The GFC. Gee efff sea. I don't know how else I can word that those periods aren't directly comparable. You're comparing apples and pears el Z. Since you love stats, try comparing NZ with Australia over the same periods as Iceman suggests.

elZorro
18-09-2014, 10:12 PM
GFC. The GFC. Gee efff sea. I don't know how else I can word that those periods aren't directly comparable. You're comparing apples and pears el Z. Since you love stats, try comparing NZ with Australia over the same periods as Iceman suggests.


I have already looked, and posted some graphs. The Iceman is playing it cool and forgot about them. It shows that Australia managed to keep their GDP/capita moving upwards, while ours took a steep dive. It's very obvious. People come back to NZ once they want their children to attend university, and the mining sector has gone backwards, which is where a lot of our people were, earning the big bucks they just can't regularly find here. Met a guy the other day who was in a well paid mining job overseas, now he's running a small contracting business in the Waikato, putting in fibre cable runs. Not quite the same deal I would think. He's learning fast, it's a screwed down area over here.

fungus pudding
19-09-2014, 07:52 AM
Good to see three of this weeks four polls show National being able to govern with Act's one seat, Dunne's one seat and maybe two for the Maori party. Perfect: a Winston free govt. is a stable govt.

Aaron
19-09-2014, 07:55 AM
Aaron a link would be useful

I hope this works NBT

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11325867

Aaron
19-09-2014, 08:10 AM
Discourage the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers, the leaders and you'll seen see which way the money was flowing.
I am not one myself but the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers I have seen don't generally start out on the top tax rate. They get there through their hard work, intelligence and innovation not because the top tax rate is lower. None of them have said they won't try and succeed or were discouraged by higher personal tax rates. Upset by higher tax rates, yes but discouraged from succeeding, no.

fungus pudding
19-09-2014, 08:28 AM
I am not one myself but the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers I have seen don't generally start out on the top tax rate. They get there through their hard work, intelligence and innovation not because the top tax rate is lower. None of them have said they won't try and succeed or were discouraged by higher personal tax rates. Upset by higher tax rates, yes but discouraged from succeeding, no.

Discouraged from expanding, doing extra and so on. A waste of talent when you see someone heading off to an accountant for tax advice and don't pretend that doesn't happen.

JBmurc
19-09-2014, 09:23 AM
I have already looked, and posted some graphs. The Iceman is playing it cool and forgot about them. It shows that Australia managed to keep their GDP/capita moving upwards, while ours took a steep dive. It's very obvious. People come back to NZ once they want their children to attend university, and the mining sector has gone backwards, which is where a lot of our people were, earning the big bucks they just can't regularly find here. Met a guy the other day who was in a well paid mining job overseas, now he's running a small contracting business in the Waikato, putting in fibre cable runs. Not quite the same deal I would think. He's learning fast, it's a screwed down area over here.

So we need more high paying mining jobs then ......? thats against the LEFT's idea of new job creation which I understood was going to come about from low paid Tourism / building windmills / building cheap houses / more bureaucrats (ok that last one is the high paid focus of the left)

Aaron
19-09-2014, 10:21 AM
Discouraged from expanding, doing extra and so on. A waste of talent when you see someone heading off to an accountant for tax advice and don't pretend that doesn't happen.
Whatever FP, I think you are a bit older than me and so would have lived through 66% top marginal tax rates(that would be hard to take). Even that didn't stop you investing/developing property and improving your lot in life. With 33cents more in every dollar earned in hand would you have developed more buildings or created more business and employment or just bought up more existing buildings and retired earlier.
I just don't buy into your mantra that cutting the top tax rates (as they are now) or having a flat tax makes the world a better place. (OK it would be for some, but not for a majority of people). I repeat "trickle down" is bull****.

westerly
19-09-2014, 10:43 AM
GFC. The GFC. Gee efff sea. I don't know how else I can word that those periods aren't directly comparable. You're comparing apples and pears el Z. Since you love stats, try comparing NZ with Australia over the same periods as Iceman suggests.

And Australia had a mining boom. Now that is over the opportunists who deserted to Australia and found the Aussies are not exactly friendly to Kiwis are coming home. Nothing to do with National Just as the 2000 doctors and 150000 jobs do not tell the full story.

westerly

fungus pudding
20-09-2014, 08:53 PM
http://iforce.co.nz/i/4u3gvzqq.155.jpg

Minerbarejet
20-09-2014, 10:55 PM
Sorry, my reception is very poor. Is dotcom the new prime minister or not?

fungus pudding
21-09-2014, 07:28 AM
Sorry, my reception is very poor. Is dotcom the new prime minister or not?

No. Kim DotGone.

Minerbarejet
21-09-2014, 08:39 AM
No. Kim DotGone.
Damn, there goes my free int-^er*******'~~~••☆☆net

minimoke
21-09-2014, 10:08 AM
OK, I reckon time for us to show our hands if we feel so inclined. So I'll get the ball rolling.

Last time around I voted National for my electorate vote and ACt for my Party vote. This time around I am not giving National my party vote. Two main reasons. I think the sale of state assets was wrong. I also think Key, and in particular Brownlee have their heads in the sand as far as EQC is concerned. I'm still battling and have yet to have made any progress on my place. Four years on is too long - and I'm far from the worst off. ACT doesn't get my vote either. I think they have simply imploded with no credible option. I cant see my vote adding to the number of seats they have in parliament. I certainly don't want the Greens any where near Treasury and I'm not keen at all on Internet Mana having an influence so I cant put a vote near the left Block as that may give these parties a chance at the reigns.

So I've decided, despite the the god botherers to go with Conservative. I don't have any difficulty with the referendum issue - if the majority of the people are mad I'll bow to their wishes. $20,000 tax free earnings I think works well as a reward for getting into work. I have no difficulty with biffing miscreants in the clink and throwing away the key. And binning the Maori seats is good - let Maori vote for Mana or Maori party - there is no shortage of options to represent their interests.

There you have it. Your turn.
Well, theres my vote wasted.

But what a poll. Really 75% of Sharetraders support National? That is a truly sad indictment on Labour (A centre left party not too far removed from a centre left National) if they can only pick up 4.6% of the Sharetader vote.

OK I might get some flack on the National Centre Left - but have they privatised ACC. No. Does National redistribute wealth from rich to poor - yes (look at the free healthcare and interest free student loans). Does National go far left like the Greens - Yes: we haven't heard any mention of National removing the Carbon Tax. Is National happy with taxation without representation. Yes - happy to have Canterbury regional rate payers cough up taxes for a non - elected regional council.

Despite all this Labour rate so poorly.