Not much going on at the TAB these days so Sharesies a good substitute
Printable View
From my experience, 28 minutes is relatively fast. My last trade in your situation (ample, 10x the depth I wanted) it took just under 45 minutes to go through. Some here have pointed out that DB is not a click and buy platform, and you should not expect to be able to "trade".
I am with ASB Premium Securities. It has been a bit slower lately. If my order has not shown up after 3 minutes, then will phone and 9 times out of 10 it shows up while talking. But this morning the sell order I put through has sold but is still showing on the 'View my trades' page even though it has gone through, and had not received the email contract note, that was 3 hours ago. ASB said that the NZX is having issues. So it looks like it is across the board. Maybe it could have something to do with the shareies site, I know some of my contracts have about 20 or 30 silly little 1,3,or 10 or any small amount fulling up the cotract form sometimes going onto a second contract page, very messy.
Put a sale order down about 20 minutes ago and so far it is still not able to be found
I know what you mean about the little amounts - here's a cut from most of my sell order yesterday:
Order Placed Comp. Qty Comp. Date Expires Status SELL 834 at 374 14/04 10:07 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 54 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 7 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 27 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 6 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 2 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 14 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 14 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 1 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 133 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 4 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 2 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 1 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 14 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 14 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 2 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 27 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 266 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 4 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 27 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 1,329 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 2 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 54 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 27 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 133 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 80 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 7 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 332 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 6 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 7 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:16 12/05 Completed SELL 3 at 374 14/04 10:16 5,000 14/04 10:17 12/05 Completed SELL 100 at 374 14/04 10:17 5,000 14/04 10:18 12/05 Completed SELL 67 at 374 14/04 10:18 5,000 14/04 10:18 12/05 Completed
In terms of the delays - I'm not knocking DB for this and I notice that DB has a message up this afternoon warning of delays due to high volumes. It appears that the NZX does not scale to be able to manage high volume transactions. While I have no data to back up this up - my guess is that the NYSE would process more transactions in 1-2 minutes than the NZX does in 1-hour, which leads me to believe that the order processing delays are caused by a system that is either not configured or resourced (processing power) to manage high volume transactions. It is also my view that Sharesies is a large contributor to this volume as per the data I have posted above.
I see them promoting shareies on tv, saying even if you only have a dollar you can still invest. It is only going to get worse. Maybe make a minimum $5 brokerage up to the first $200 for shareies and get rid of all those little trades from 1 to 30 shares.
Those small amounts will be from the HFT trading aglorithms. The software is not designed to cope with the recent mini crash in the markets. I imagine the software developers are frantically working behind the scenes to rewrite large portions of it or perhaps develop a new separate package to operate in this eratic environment. Basically the HFT is acting in a manner to block your trades while it goes and purchases the shares before you can, then it will sell them to you at a higher price, or in this market the opposite when it finds a way to make money from price decreases... for every successful offer there has be a bid, both sides are played by the algos..
I agree it borders on criminal
The ability of banks and trading enterprises to hold our trades and send them to their own "Dark_Pools" of held shares First, is unethical to say the least. When they collect enough buyers & sellers orders together they can play mix and match to any desired ratio they want to make a profit from each transaction from their own private pool.
There was a book by Michael Lewis a while ago on HFT trading "A Wall Street Revolt FLASH BOYS"
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Broken Markets: How High Frequency Trading and Predatory Practices on Wall Street Are Destroying Investor Confidence and Your Portfolio[/COLOR]
Book by Joseph Saluzzi and Saleem Arnuk
I must be lucky. Today I put in an order about 12:35, had the trade completed between 12:38 and 1:56 (quite a few small transactions as is now the norm) and had the contract note at 2:08.
I've put a few orders in over the last week and they have all gone through quickly with no problems. So far.
It's now 8.30 pm and still no sign off my contract note from trade that was done at 10am open today. My order is still sitting on View my trades page since 9.58am this morning. To sell 2000 ATM at $18.91. The order went through at 10am open this morning at $19.28c. The $38,500 odd has not appeared to show up in my cash management Account Summary. Has anyone else here having similar problem?:confused:.
NZX crashed (again) during market open. The trade has almost certainly been processed, however your broker likely hasn't received all the info required from NZX to issue the contract note (or they are manually having to process it). Give your broker a call in they morning if the haven't resolved it by then.
nzx exchange under stress again , to much volume there systems cant handle it my orders are not quick enough
i had to ring they punched my order thru straight away as they new my details well ( benefit of doing lots of trading i guess), said the delay is all the order checking of fins etc required by nzx and all the newbies who opened accounts during lockdown and the nzx system cant handle the volume
Do they have these issues on the ASZX? Might have to migrate my attention.
If they can’t cope maybe they need to come up with a system that prioritises $30k trades over the $3 trades.
ASB now have a banner that states:
Since approximately 11:45 am today, the NZX has been experiencing technical difficulties which are affecting any order placement/amendments/cancellations in reaching the market. We will provide updates via this banner as soon as the NZX provides further information. We apologise for any inconveniencethis may cause.
I have placed 4 orders today, 1 sell at opening and 3 buys close to lunchtime. They orders are all showing as being completed, but only the sell first thing this morning is showing in My Trades, or on the portfolio page.
Are services like interactive brokers better ? Or is this just on NZXs end like ASB are saying lol
I created an order earlier in the day and when it wasn’t enacted after an hour and a half of market movements I cancelled it.
I created another order near the end of the day and an oddly similar trade was placed shortly there after.
My cancelled order is still cancelling and the placed order is still pending on ASB.
Now I don’t know if either order has traded, both orders are still pending, the cancelled one traded and the other is pending ... But hey .. it is only a potential $60k in limbo. As long as the $2 traders are being catered to we will be alright.
I would suggest it isnt a DB issue but a platform issue for all the trading platforms going through NZX. We could take it as a good sign that people are still looking/investing in the market in volume despite the environment however Im with your sentiment it is frustrating :)
These issues have gone on for a long time,I think a lot of the problem is with Direct Broking,I have placed orders,the price has changed in real time and going to DB find the order still sitting there,I have rung them and The guy says oh yes ok I'll put that through now. I have written emails to complain with no reply.
A platform should be instant in this day and age,no checking should of fins etc. should ever need to be done manually. Direct brokings site is pathetic,I can remember a few years ago if you hit the bid it was instantaneous,now it's at least a five minute wait,and whatever you do don't decide to edit the order,it's like a snail being attacked by a turtle. Things have gone down hill since being bought by Last NZ Capital.
TimeSurfer, were you talking about Direct Broking or ASB?
ASB is just as bad now as Direct. ASB told me it is the NZX that's causing the slow down. When your order goes through, ASB cannot confirm it untill NZX lets them know. And it is taking hours for NZX to tell ASB the orders have gone through. Here it is nearly 9.30pm and still waiting for contract notes.:eek2::t_down::confused::t_down::t_down::t_d own::t_down::t_down::t_down::t_down::t_down::t_dow n::t_down::t_down::t_down:
Someone should lay a complaint with the FMA. There should be some oversight , this is appalling service and whoever is to blame should have to sort it . They need to ensure an orderly market
not knowing the state of your order could lead to panic .... wait till the masses of new investors pull the trigger on something at Sharsies ......
I agree, placed an order with ASB to sell on Friday, Had no idea what the hell was happening. Friday night about 6.30pm got a contract note that it was traded, but no trade notification at the time it traded..
Then in disbelief I got a trade notification on Saturday for the trade....
I can weigh in on this. I don't think it's a direct problem or asb as sharesies has the same issue. I placed a limit order today and it didn't show up till 5.00pm today after placing it at 4pm. I have live market depth so most times when I place orders they appear instant. So it could come down to how busy they are. So I'd say its a nzx problem. Does anyone know when there systems were last upgraded.
The bottom line some of the bigger stocks in Australia trade more on the opening match than the NZX trades in a day . So volume in this day and age shouldn't be an issue .Unless they are operating on something from 20 years ago .....
I view market depth all the time, I can tell you, placed an order toady.. It just said pending and the depth did not show it at any time. At the end of the day... NO TRADE even though my sell price was lower than the current market now shows!!
I am completely frustrated with ASB Broking!
That was ASB.
Some time after market close I adjusted my pending trade and I thought I saw a list of trades on "my Trades" but when I refreshed they were gone. So still no idea where I stand, and now the site is down with a notification they had issues with EFTPOS, ATMs and other banking services. I wonder if hackers have been rampant today?
I guess I am just raising the point that this thread is for DB broking issues
I definitely had some delayed feedback and confirmation of completion of trades using DB today.
I also had some pretty conclusive proof that they are clipping the ticket on price too, with a number of specficially identifiable transactions showing at a different price on NZX to those on my account. I have screenshots but am of two minds whether to care. Its no big deal and but it makes me uneasy.
And just for the comparison to those complaining about delayed transactions on DB I did some trades on CMC platform today , easy peasy , instant confirmation when you click. It is much more appropriate for day traders.
Well i'm sick of waiting. No contracts, can't balance the portfolio and cm acc. And will not do any more trading until it is fixed. Good night:t_down:NZX:t_down:
I would take it to the FMA Peat. You could probably crowdfund and people on here would chip in. I too would be very uneasy if a broker was doing what you are suggesting. The broker is supposed to give the client the best price and definitely not clip ticket on the way. That is reprehensible.
I too use CFD providers for trading, but the problem I have with them is 2 fold. You cannot sit on the bid, and also the health of the underlying provider is still important for peace of mind. If they go bust.. what happens to your balance?
I was a bit annoyed to see that DB charged me the unfunded brokerage rate for a buy when I'd made a sale and received the contract several hours prior to it which would have covered the trade. To be fair, I'm sure the small print says balances are updated on settlement etc. but curious if this is the norm with other brokers?
DB did have a notice up (still do) saying there was a problem that might mean trades and amounts might not show correctly and if anyone had a problem to call them. Would this be applicable to what you had happen?Quote:
I also had some pretty conclusive proof that they are clipping the ticket on price too, with a number of specficially identifiable transactions showing at a different price on NZX to those on my account. I have screenshots but am of two minds whether to care. Its no big deal and but it makes me uneasy.
I feel like an authority should be involved, it sounds like market manipulation. DB know before anyone else in the market how much they have to buy or sell in any one stock, from all their members. Or the delay in giving the market information to traders can influence their decisions.
Ill stick to weekly trading for now.
I would buy into the high demand BS, but my australian Nab account works pretty good atm and the information is instant. Nab have to deal with a much bigger exchange and alot more members.
Come on DB and NZX, stop taking the piss
Just to add a little fuel to the fire. When I use DB to buy on the ASX, I can see via NAB (ASX) that it takes about 30 seconds to appear on the ASX board. That is pretty fast, I guess they are NOT clipping/manipulating penny stocks on the ASX.
*sigh* Looks like more pain today. From ASB website:
I put in a trade yesterday, after two hours with it not even getting on to market the opportunity had passed so I first raised my sell price to a silly amount, then put through a cancelation. This was yesterday afternoon, the trade is still showing as "Cancellation created". Reading ASB's message, I have no idea whether this has gone through or not ("orders may not be reflecting the correct status online").Service Disruption
The NZX experienced technical difficulties on the 20th of April which affected order placement/amendments/cancellations in reaching the market. The issue has since been resolved however there are delays in bookings and confirmations of orders which did trade, therefore orders may not be reflecting the correct status online, and trade notifications not received. We are working through manual updates as a priority. In addition we are experiencing issues with orders reaching the market this morning, of which we are working on resolving as a priority. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience.
Hopeless.
My contract notes all came through between 6:00 and 8:00 pm last night.
The following is a letter sent to the FMA, ASB Securities and the NZSA this morning. Wait & See!
Dear Sir / Madam,
At Approximately 3:50pm on the 20 th April 2020, I placed my online sale order for 9250 shares at $30 worth some $277,000 net. I waited for about 20-25 minutes for the order to be placed On Market. Prior to this point the order status was Order Pending. Market depth indicated that there were 52 orders at $30 in the queue. I phoned ASB Securities to find out what was happening. According to ASB Securities the NZX system (BaNCS ?) that processes ASB orders had been down for some 5 hours (On & Off?).
The ASB operator then Manually was able to bypass this older NZX system and get my order On Market. I enquired as to why this hadn't happened much earlier. He said that due to order volume this hadn't been possible.
I then enquired what brokers used this older system? The operator replied that due to volume of orders they would not be able to find this out for me at this time. In the meantime I watched all 52 orders execute ON Market with my SINGLE order for 9250 shares left un-executed in the Depth. (I may have been too late in phoning ASB for followup, but this processing should be AUTOMATIC with my online order).
After reading on the Sharetrader Bulletin Board about Severe and Ongoing Issues with getting orders to market in a timely manner - it has become clear that BOTH ASB Securities and Direct Broking are experiencing problems with High Volume processing on the NZX's BaNCS clearing system.
As in the example above, it is clear that the NZX is Completely Derelict in it's duty to maintain a Fair and Orderly Market for market participants and measures need to be ENFORCED with EXTREME Urgency to resolve this issue in a timely manner.
It has been suggested that some of the issues may relate to the arrival of Sharesies on the scene, flooding the market with many small orders which the system may not be able to handle.
The FMA needs to get IMMEDIATELY involved with the NZX to sort these problems out for the sake of Market Regulatory Compliance.
Regards
XXXXXX XXXXXX
NZ Shareholder Assn Member
Member 3799
I complained to Direct and NZX about sharsies trading. I got back a patronising letter. This was months ago. Still nothing being done. I would think that companies would also be unhappy as they bear the cost of those small changes to their share register.
Can we really believe it's just because of sharsies and the other app(I forget the name) I would have thought that NZX would have prioritised regular orders which would average out far bigger volumes and realise larger revenue.
So you would think that the likes of direct and asb would be missing out on volume with missed trade orders,that they would be pushing the cause to get things sorted,but after ringing the broker when an order hadn't gone through
suddenly because your on their tail about it, it can go through???
I do remember when trading online through direct was pretty much instantaneous if you met the bid or the ask. I have been told that it is an NZX issue,but should you not look after your revenue stream and sort it? I also don't think a lot of Last NZ Capital unfortunately.
NBR has article on brokers fuming about broken NZX....
https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/brokers-...ce=NBR%20Today
Broking firms are demanding an independent review of the NZX as stock exchange back office systems buckle under the strain of a huge rise in the volume of low-value trades.
“A bunch of firms have had enough,” said one.
“The market has had four outages in a week. We’d like to see the NZX open itself to an independent review and make that available to the market.
I would tend to think that the problem is at NZX - exactly as this article points to
Sharesies should not be made the scapegoat by others, when clearly NZX would appear to have failed to keep their
platform capable of handling increasing peak volumes.
Despite fractional sharesies trades coming through - the nominee company is always the Registered
holder - not a multitude of different registrants as with other brokers
Newer NZX sponsored & initiated Funds coming onto the board have probably not helped the situation
for NZX itself & they must accept responsibility if their own initiatives to try to hide the reducing number
of real company listings has resulted in a multitude of Fund listings that have made the situation worse on
the existing trading platform..
I know that before Sharesies and other small volume traders entered the scene - processing of orders was pretty quick. I recall timing a buy order on DB that took approximately 2 minutes from order submission to appearing in the depth.
I really don't know how the NZX system works but I do have some knowledge of order management systems, which I assume NZX has a type of. Without getting into too much techno speak - if the NZX hardware and software is old - then it is highly unlikely it could efficiently process the volume of multiple small orders like those from Sharesies as well as larger orders coming in from DB and ASB. Order Management software usually has some pre-qualification functionality built into it to validate that a buyer or seller is authorised to submit an order (check valid CSN and FIN) and may have some other validation functions it needs to perform before releasing an order onto the market. If it has to do that for every single order, and I suspect it does - then those hundreds or thousands of orders for 1 and 2 shares are going to create a log jam and everything will start to back up behind them.
NZX & the market however has benefited from a further large number of new interested participants out of this..
now able to buy & hold securities, who weren't able to before.
Who knows - this may even result in a relook & lowering of trading costs among the original brokers ?
Why have NZX not kept up with things & upgraded their capabilty when they knew this influx was coming online ?
That sort of "personal" data should be stored in a database [or a formatted file] and a simple "lookup" function done. The database/data-file should be loaded into a virtual-hard-disk ( a hard disk created out of pure RAM Memory ) for access at the same speed as programs run. if they have a program that actually goes out to a hard disk to read data then it can be accelerated 100x by redesigning for virtual disks.
And if all of the above is being run on a single computer, it should be scrapped and rewritten to run within a Parallel Processing System ( commonly called a Cluster ) to achieve vastly more throughput. Clusters are now beating the processing times achieved by mainframes.
NZX should just upgrade there systems and rules , hopeless for traders. other exchanges by far leave them in the dust for trading
Perhaps we should see what NZX have to say before critiquing their technology. I mean do any of us have a clue whether they are Apple or Windows? Linux or Unix? Hopefully not using Sinclair
https://www.nzx.com/services/nzx-tra...system-upgrade
it would seem their plans to upgrade have been affected by Covid 19
"As communicated previously the NZX TSU project is being replanned and is now not looking to go live in Q2 2020"
link
and a further edit is that this is about NZX not DB.
But winner says its okay to post about anything in any thread now
Big implementation to do this. Hope they have the horsepower !
Bought shares through Direct on the ASX. Fast as, and quick contract note. Wasn't expecting that.
Personally, Apple or Windows will do for the desktop
Definitely use Linux (which is a UNIX clone) for the back office/server functions, and make it a cluster. For goodness sake don't put Windows server into the x-change. Linux process/throughput is quicker.
If they use Windows expect to have it hacked within 2 years. Wall street learnt that the hard way...
Sinclair... Museum piece, hold onto it, could be a picasso price later on :)
Some guy in America actually had one of the "Core-Memory" units [ literally ferrite rings with intricate cross threaded wiring loom matrix] from the Apollo era. Went to a public exhibition and someone found out he had it... bids started going through the roof.
Just read the exchange doc
Looks like their upgrade needs some medicine... If they have ITCH and OUCH it sounds more like they have a very suspicious and nasty rash. My girlfriend would have kicked my b***s in if I had given her that...
New Message Protocols
The current messaging protocol, Genium FIX, will be superseded by the industrystandard Native FIX, ITCH and OUCH protocols.
Perhaps Direct Brokings systems need a dose of medicine...
Board meeting last night agrees external review after system overloads.Tim Hunter | Wed, 22 Apr 2020
A Victory of sorts - https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/nzx-reac...rce=Heads%20Up **Paywalled**
OK I need a broker than can conducts trades when apparently ASB has to follow the “rules” and follow the other brokers rather than lead the way.
Who are the brokers that I am following?
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/n...ystem-glitches **Paywalled**
It is also working with clearing system vendors to split certain functionality into different processing streams to improve throughput and engaging with software suppliers to market participants to optimise the interconnection between them and NZX's system and the registries to try to reduce system stress.
The measures follow mounting frustration from stock brokers over the number of breakdowns, which they said meant staff working long hours to deal with backlogs caused by the problems, and calls for an independent review.
NZX said the breakdowns it has been experiencing primarily involve its clearing and settlement system and that the root cause appears to be an about four-fold increase in trading volumes since early this year.
Peterson said NZX has had a trading system upgrade project underway since 2019 but, as a result of covid-19 delays and subjected to covid-19 developments and market feedback, it is now expected to go live later this year.
Capacity for growth
It will include the shifting of non-settlement functionality off the clearing and settlement system and onto the upgraded trading platform and is expected to provide sufficient capacity for significant further trading volume growth.
to go live later this year. **Too Bloody late!!**
Sweet, couldn't sell a parcel the whole day two days ago, and now I can't even log on to check my portfolio on ASB.
1st world country NZX standards
Well I am back on again after about 4 hours. It was horrible being blind to the depth. I spat the dummy and phoned ASB and proceeded to sell down all my holdings over the phone. Can't be bothered with this c..p, being locked out of trading site. Only got through 10% of holding and will sleep on it and see what happens tomorrow.:confused:
Thanks Blackcap - and for the benefit of others, DB re-issued the contracts with corrected brokerage after I emailed them. They referenced the NZX connectivity issues as the reason. If you're covering purchases with earlier sales - check your brokerage fees as timing issues may register them as unfunded trades.
looks like they are boosting their staffing as there are a few job adverts from Jarden
with :
The key responsibility of this role is delivering consistently outstanding trading execution, in both fixed income and equities, for our DIY clients who invest via our online platforms
A couple or 3 weeks ago the DB system ended up selling the same block of shares twice! My partner phoned and emailed DB at the time and finally my partner got a call from DB this week to sort out the issue. That got sorted and we asked about getting cheaper trading rates. Was told at this point that's not possible unless we were trading well into 6 figures worth of shares. BUT the chap said DB are working on a new trading system and will be ready later this year and they are looking at the ability for cheaper trading costs. (Based on volume i assume, my words, not DB's)
I had a really good service last week when wanting to purchase some ASX shares. After not buying any other than NZX for the past few years.
In short I needed to have a chess application completed and processed that normally takes 5 days. But the person on the phone did it for me on the call and charged me the online fee of $29 instead of the telephone rate of $35. More importantly got the shares straight away.
So this was a very positive experience.
Is it me or what , I can't view DEPTH , it give me error just now.
whats the bet its something to do with the 20 minute delay shyte
It is happening more often than anyone would like. Who is to blame though?
Yep no depth. Hope the quotes are up to date though.
Anyone tried to call them???
They don't care.....they took the broker fee n don't give a toss whether u make loss or profit....they simply just said...opsss...we are experiencing a heavy trading....or... experience like today....
If matters turned to custard with Direct Broking, do we own the shares, or do they hold them on our behalf and we have the potential to become unsecured creditors?