How to perfect the art of lieing---Become a lawyer--politician--or Marketing executive...of course the list goes on....
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How to perfect the art of lieing---Become a lawyer--politician--or Marketing executive...of course the list goes on....
SKC's harm minimisation policies are almost completely ineffectual. Just words ?
AIR - You are drawing an incredibly long bow there, (I presume you bike to work ?). For what its worth you'll know they're investing heavily in new fuel efficient aircraft. Other policies, they were the first in the world to pioneer the advanced winglets you see on the domestic A320's which cut fuel consumption by 4%.
HNZ - Usury ?? - Oh Please...lets get real. They're a million miles from being pay-day loan sharks.
SKC is a company in transition Winner. Two very big spending projects on the table. Lot's of doubters about the execution. There were some good years when the America's cup was in town. So maybe more regular big events will help things along. Great idea! Why not build an international convention centre? Attract a few more of those big spending international professionals!
Adelaide OTOH has never really fired. But Adelaide was at a competitive disadvantage compared with the gaming laws operated in other Australian states. Great idea! Get the South Australian government to put their gaming laws on the level with other Australian states. Then we can build a new improved casino in partnership with the rest of the state capital spending on the riverbank development. Casino monopolies confirmed in South Australia and Auckland along the way.
I think we will have to wait until the Adelaide and Auckland construction projects are finished before we know if the grand plan will pan out. Looks like the SKC is 'priced to stumble' on the market today. Might look to reduce my holding if all was priced to perfection. Instead I will be looking to up my holding with any general market weakness during the year (did the same last year buying an additional parcel around $3.60) . This is my investment strategy with SKC for FY2015. Hoping for $3.60ish again.
SNOOPY
discl: hold SKC
AIR - every flight spews pollution - even the latest engines on the latest planes. I have SKC and AIR shareholdings. I own a car as I recognise that all legal human activity has a cost/benefit.
HNZ - Loan sharks they are not. However they loan money to others for interest -whether it is a "sin" depends on your ethical, religious and moral judgment. For you and me, it is presumably acceptable. Inability of borrowers to meet loan obligations is a great cause of family stress and personal suffering.
For me, rather than my SKC shares, I would be more likely to sell my RBD holding on my (personal) ethical grounds. I think processed foods high in salt, sugar and fat can be addictive and can cause very broad and severe suffering to families when consumed to excess. Processed foods, confectionery and takeaways and those people who supply them should be government controlled and taxed in the same way as the petrochemicals, gambling, alcohol and tobacco industries. Is it ethical to have sugary snacks at child height sometimes near cash registers? In pretty colourful wrappers advertised by celebrities and glamorous people? The display in shops is designed to be appealing so you come back for your next sugar rush or fatty satisfaction and buy the high margin treats that become necessities for some.
Anyway I do not wish to fall out with you and other posters. So I hope we can agree to disagree.
We all have to draw our own lines on this one. Personally, I am happy to invest in NZ companies doing unethical things in New Zealand if I can make a dollar out of it and its legal. I've invested in companies undertaking activities that I certainly don't support and that in the past I have protested about. I've always taken the view that if someone is going to make a dollar out of it, it might as well be me. If you think something is unethical - change the law, its your country. I draw the line where companies are clearly taking advantage of poor regulation in other countries.
I enjoy a good debate mate so no drama as far as I'm concerned and I take your point on some of the dubious sales tactics employed by the supermarkets. The fat thing is a difficult one...where do you draw the line, shall we ban V8 cars because they're no good for the environment ? The main issue I have with SKC is are they playing fair ? I think we can easily show that AIR's pollution is fair and reasonable for the aircraft services they provide and that HNZ's interest rates under generally accepted N.Z. consumer law are more than fair and reasonable for the loans they make and that they wouldn't knowing do business with any party if they thought that party couldn't reasonably comfortably afford the repayments. OTOH according to a recent investigation (not sure if it was run by Internal Affairs or not), SKC are only paying lip service to their official harm minimisation policies. Hmmm, is that fair and reasonable ????
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/10...-non-existent/
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA141...nimisation.htm
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/more...casino-5712238
I like a good debate too. I think if there are harm minimisation requirements there should be a procedure to oversee and enforce them. The requirements should be clear and enforced for the period of their licence. TBH I don't know if SKC is any better or worse than my other holdings at sticking to its operational rules, fairness, company law and NZX requirements. Some holdings have been quite creative!
Internal Affairs did run a mystery shopper investigation of casinos and pubs etc and they concluded (with regard to casinos):
- Improvement is needed by the casinos to monitor behavioural indicators of potential problem gambling.
- Casino staff may be using casual conversations to establish a rapport which can build an environment in which customers are more willing to ask for help if they’re experiencing gambling problems.
So not really saying that casinos are only paying lip service to their host responsibility.
People interested can judge for themselves if we're talking about lip service or not. I've read the PowerPoint summary and I'm not impressed.
http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.ns...enDocument#one
I guess the main risk to SKC in that perception of sin and lip service is that it might attract more compliance or regulation. On the upside though, the moat that protects SKC is further entrenched by the same negative perception. More compliance and regulation is likely to more negatively effect the competition, so its hard to see how they can lose.
Well - what do we think of the result announced today. Pretty ho-hum judging by the lack of comment on here this morning.
NP up 30.2% and EPS at 22.0 compared with 17.0 last year seems pretty damn good to me. The benefits of the additional gaming concessions in Auckland haven't started yet either.
I think it's a pretty average report.
Auckland is doing great and i think it will continue to grow in 2016: additional gaming concessions
Adelaide's EBITDA recuded by 19%!! But at least in 2015H2 it's revenue increased by 4m. I hope it will do better next year as the refurbishment works is complete.
The high rollers didn't do as well this year after cleaning up last year.
The den of iniquity must have sussed them out and played the card / rolled the dice a bit better this year
Adelaide has been the consistent underperformer over so many long years now. I'm surprised they invested so much on the expansion programme there, wasn't it $300m ?
Maybe Adelaide folk a parochial bunch and don't like giving Kiwi's their money ?
Yes Winner, IIRC there were rumours going around that certain overseas people had worked out how to scam the system here. Expert card counters to call it what it is. I guess some of them weren't welcome back at a SKC casino in FY15?
30% Profit Hike。
Poor Lewis
Hamilton posted a damning review to his 3.2 million Twitter followers: "Don't ever go to the sky city casino in Auckland, they treated me like dirt. Can't believe how rude they were. Worst casino experience ever!"
Teach him for going to such a den of iniquity
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsp...ky-city-casino
If this means that SKC is not like other Casinos that Lewis has experienced, I see this as a good thing.
SKC has been a core part of my investment portfolio back before the Stolwyk days. So successful was my investment in SKC, that I was looking at other casinos in Sydney, Melbourne and even Macau to provide a complimentary investment to pair up with the dollars I have in SKC. After some personal visits, all I thought were just horrible: real 'glitter gutter' floor experiences. I came back and put more money in SKC shares instead. 00 on the roulette wheel is always the best number to pick for a real return!
The market likes Lewis's free publicity twitter spree too. Any publicity is good publicity in the entertainment industry. SKC SP up 4% today.
SNOOPY
Horrible places, I agree Snoops
Surprised Roger has started ramping SKC after his visit there he other day - the eating places but he might have sneaked into the real dens of iniquity
Stolwyk was a real character and a good bloke.
Remember his reminding us all the time that Auckland Airport and Sky City were twins.
Probably great investments over that time eh
I sometimes wonder if Roger is Stolwyk's son.
Formula 1 is not exactly the Vienna Boys Choir,Bernie paid 100mil Euro to stop being prosecuted.
Lewis does have history.
Poor Lewis's "super trendy" gear did stop him gaining entry to the Royal box at Wimbleton,and The Queen did have to explain table etiquette to him,when she had him as a dinner party guest.
Percy the Bernie payment was even better than that wasn't it . Facing charges he gave someone a bribe , the German Govt let him off if he paid them !!!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...ery-trial.html
Rumours of an Australian takeover bid for SKC.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11607909
SkyCity Entertainment Group had 9.1 million shares traded today, relatively high I believe.
Hands off 'Sky City', 'Star Entertainment Group'! The casinos you operate in Australia are just horrible compared to what Sky City do here from NZ. We need your management expertise for 'Sky City' like a hole in the head. Long suffering 'Sky City' shareholders have backed the Adelaide Casino over many lean years. And now, just when the redevelopment plan aligns with more equitable South Australian government regulations, you want to take that hard won improvement away from the shareholders who backed it? I for one will not be selling out, should an offer from Star emerge!
Except, I suppose, evey mutt has a level in their supper dish that can't be ignored. I still remember when Nigel Morrison took over at Sky City. Nige mentioned his goal was to to get to the share price to $10. Is a Star takeover the way to fulfill this promise? Ten bucks Nige, is what it will take for my moral stand to be distracted enough, so that I go the way of my bulging supper dish.
SNOOPY
SKC market cap $2.9 billion and debt of $0.7 bilion
Say 20% premium to take over and one needs $4.1 billion
Annual operating cash flow (before capex) say $0.3 billion plus maybe a bit more
A 7% return might be attractive for lie minded suitors who never seem too worried about loads of debt and paying over the odds.
And our government prob happy to allow Aussie rogues to take over the NZ licences,
Nigel Morrison stepping down at the end of the month. Was just contemplating buying some more this morning.
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/233341.pdf
Market didn't like it. Down 4%.
2.8M shares already traded this morning - it'll be interesting to see where it goes today
Market really doesn't like it.
I see a teleconference is being arranged with analysts, institutional investors and fund managers.
Nigel Morrison has gone. Not sure if Oliver Twist will be the new CEO. But the board has heard you Tim.
A 1:10 rights issue at $4.40. Ostensibly this rights issue is becasue Sky City have decided not to sell their new downtown hotel after all. Or maybe the sharemarket has reached such a level that tapping the market for new capital, for what I think is quite a high price in historical terms, was just a no brainer.
I won't be playing the roulette wheel to celebrate. But I'll be taking up my rights. I have found in the past that backing my favourite number '00' is the most rewarding way to go gambling.
SNOOPY
PS Am a little disappointed to see that although institutional investors and retail investors are being offered shares on the same terms, any undersubscription my retail investors will be offered to institutions. IOW we retail investors can't oversubscribe, but the big boys can.
Have a look here Steve
https://www.nzx.com/companies/SKC/announcements/282159
As long as you have a registered address in NZ or Oz you should be OK. This from p7 of the offer document.
"Alternatively, Applications may be made by Eligible Retail Shareholders online at www.skycityshareoffer.co.nz without the requirement to complete the Entitlement and Acceptance Form."
So if you have internet access, you should be OK. You have until June 2nd to get your money in.
SNOOPY
thank you Snoopy:)
I lived in oversea for 3 years now but i have NZ registered address.
I took up the bonus shares.
Does anyone know when will they be allocated? Do they show up in our account on the 2nd of June?
Looks like shares allotted on 10th June. See p4 in this link
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/235187.pdf
Not a bonus issue. I had to pay for mine!
Shares to be allotted 9 June. Trading to commence 10 June.
Thanks everyone! I missed that bit
Yep you're right macduffy - I worded that wrong...
Still the price is below market so I'm happy to have a small gain
Annual result is out and it appears the market thinks a 13% increase in NPAT is not enough.
Bit of a worry for the reporting season if that applies to all companies on the NZX!
Sure, that's the big conundrum of expectation vs actual. And the way things are going on NZX of late if not all most of stocks either fully priced in or close to. Will be interesting to see when other big ones start reporting later this week or next week.
Sorry to be bit off topic, I know this is SKC thread.
I'm afraid couldn't answer that question as I don't own any SKC shares nor do I follow their numbers. However, my comments were more along overall market sentiment not just SKC. Another anecdotal evidence can be found in the way PGW price moved before and after the result.
I guess Balance has a more valid point from his post earlier re SKC.
I wouldn't be too concerned, SKC has risen from around $4.40 at the end of July! A classic case of over-expectations!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11690944
Might be able to answer some questions re today's weakness.
SKC shares getting thrashed today.
Probably the fallout from the Beijing offices of underarm bowler casino operator Crown being raided. This is being interpreted by commentators as the Peoples Dictatorships disapproval of high roller marketing to their lumpen proletariat. I understand SKC view high roller gambling as a top product.
Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Not the flashiest of reports on Q1 - whether you look at real numbers, with or without the IB or the 'normalised' ones
Whatever they say a return to growth for these dens of iniquity
bad report, ib will take a big hit from this crown saga which will flow thru to all there casinos in the short term I reckon
Charts not looking good. Now south of previous support levels. Glad not holding.
Attachment 8397
Can you please explain IB?
Up 3%..It seems to be an overreaction in terms of last week's fall(China's raids helped the cause).
very very bad month for me.
my 3 large holdings : SKC TIL SUM
TIL: big drop from 4.8 to 3.8
SUM: big drop from peak
SKC: big drop from 4.6 to 3.8
Or you could see the positive - a handy month if you wanted to top up or re-enter positions. I topped up on til last week and got back in sky city today. Note SKC still moving up on ASX so we should see another rise tomorrow
Can anyone clarify with this SSH Notice. Thanks
https://www.nzx.com/companies/SKC/announcements/291710
Is Nigel Morrison selling SKC or Buying it?(of late)
The AFR carried a story last week speculating about a possible merger between SKC and Star Entertainment following the actions in China recently against Crown Casino employees. Reckoned that SKC's Auckland, Adelaide and Darwin casinos would make a nice fit with Star's Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast operations. Does anyone have access to that article?
Hectorplains - could you please flick me a copy. Thanks in advance
Same old story that's churned out every time the share prices take a hit ......but one day it just might happen, one never knows
SKC market cap $2.6 billion - for anybody to get your shares say it cost $3.0 billion ....plus $0.4 billion debt ....total cost $3.4 billion .....a lot to get SKC ebitda of just over $0.3 billion
And what about government approvals re licences - that's a political hot potato
Aren't synergies a great thing .....why doesn't everybody merge with everybody else?
SKC appoints new CEO.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11743529
Interesting times for SKC, more info out to day re star looking at merger/takeover. Noticed some large trades today
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...8fce8dc158752e
Investment bank Macquarie Capital and advisory firm Flagstaff are understood to be in the corner of The Star Entertainment Group nutting out the options for a potential merger with its New Zealand-based rival Skycity Entertainment Group, which is taking advice from Credit Suisse-First NZ Capital, according to sources.
The banks are believed to be weighing various options for a tie-up or takeover deal between the two groups, which could create a newly merged $7 billion casino operator.
The latest takeover talk about the two companies follows a recent agreed $11.3bn merger between Australian-listed gaming and wagering heavyweights Tabcorp and Tatts Group, which is on track to be finalised next year subject to approval from the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission.
Investment banks are working behind the scenes for the two casino operators Skycity and The Star as tensions escalate at Skycity between investors and the company’s board.
Plans are afoot by a group of Skycity investors, believed to be Perpetual, Masco Capital and Investors Mutual, to call an extraordinary general meeting in an effort to oust chairman Chris Moller, who fund managers say is refusing to properly engage with Star Entertainment chairman John O’Neill about the prospect of a merger between the two companies.
Bad blood is believed to exist between Mr Moller and Mr O’Neill from negotiations over the hosting of the Rugby World Cup more than a decade ago.
Mr Moller at the time was chief executive of the New Zealand Rugby Union, while Mr O’Neill was CEO of the Australian Rugby Union.
At the time, New Zealand missed out on hosting the event due to a contractual dispute over ground signage rights.
Another point of contention is that the group embarked on an equity raising to fund its developments, rather than divesting assets within its property portfolio.
Sources yesterday said some members of The Star’s board were lobbying for a merger to occur, but the company’s Malaysian shareholder Genting, which controls 6.6 per cent of the company according to Bloomberg, is reluctant for a deal to proceed.
Other major shareholders are in favour of a merger, and it is understood chief executive Matt Bekier has told investors he would be in favour of an acquisition of Skycity, subject to the right price.
One view is that both parties may also face regulatory hurdles over a deal proceeding.
Mr Moller has been meeting with Sky shareholders this week.
Skycity and The Star Entertainment have been in merger talks before and The Star’s performance has strongly improved since that time.
However, buying Skycity could currently be a tough ask for the Star Entertainment business.
Are you guys hoping for a takeover / merger?
A good price would mean $3.5-$4.0 billion needed by Star for current ebitda of $0.3billion (see earlier post)
The last sentence from the bit from The Australian - However, buying Skycity could currently be a tough ask for the Star Entertainment business.
But then when egotistical casino operators start gambling with other peoples money anything can happen eh?
Running hot this morning, should see $4+
A solid underlying business with good div. Recent sell off has created plenty of value. Back in an uptrend now after share price fell following IB issues bad publicity re crowns troubles in china.
Headline in the AFR Markets section, two minutes ago:
"Star, Perpetual, hose down hopes of a merger with Sky City....."
Anyone with access to this?
Yeh I read it - basically says star/perpetual(owns 9.5%) saying nothing's happening on their end. I've heard that before though
Yep to right, what are the current price targets on SKC?
I see SKY (UK) have received a bid approach... http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-sky...-idUKKBN13Y20M
Lots of money being made from punters (many who probably are living a life of misery because of this)
Reduced dividend might upset some shareholders who support this outfit.
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/252577.pdf
SKC on fire....Out from it's lows...I suppose the market liked the way Skycity got its profit pretty close YOY despite a sizable drop from its International business of high rollers...Adelaide and Darwin are still a worry
Good they changed their payout policy, in the years ahead P+L is not going to be similar to cash flow due to the huge capitalised interest. Will also need to adjust my forecasted P/E ratio calculations accordingly.
AKL still the jewel and associated concentration risk will need to be included in a price valuation. Also I note some hints around CNY performing well for the 3 months to March 17 which could have influenced the price as well today.
What's with big crossing of 35ml shares @4.05 a piece this morning?
Chairman Chris Moller to step down at end of the year.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11883017
Buy time...
Rob Campbell joining the Board as Chairman is actually one good reason to buy - his track record at THL, Precinct and Summerset is absolutely superb.
Any sell down of this size usually involves the one seller needing to discount down to a level where other sizeable buyers will find attractive to 'help' relieve the seller.