TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

Hoop.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Companies that have nothing to hide are only more than happy to answer and return calls. Visa versa applies.

Although i bailed out of this stock some time ago (sp at just over $2.50 for a small loss) i had concerns then. I personally felt the same thing happened to me. When asked BK for a striaght answer in reference to him selling to Bridgecorp etc he basically said he was not prepared to discuss.

In fact i was a big fan of BK for a long time. I took himn as sincere, clever etc but i personally felt he changed and got super greedy when he became involved in 42 below. He saw other people expoliting investors and though f.. it ill do the same. This is oinly my opinion of couse.

Moving on a few years DPC is all but gone imo. Some of it will come out in the wash but only after most investors get scalped along the way.

I hope someone, (a shareholder) can ask the3 simple question of how much DPC have invested into Queenstown and how their investment is doing. Somehow i do not think anyone will be able to shed light on it this week. For the sake of the investoirs i hope i am completely wrong.

discl. some of this is my own personal views and information i have obtained through normal day to day discussions. Please do your own research as i am not a qualified advisor

Thank you Dsurf ...nice translation :)

Nita...I too was a BK fan, but went anti about the same time as you did. It seemed the whole market did as the share price starting falling from that time onwards. (September 2005, Bridgecorp/Hugh Green/BK shanangins and early December 2005 BK announced his falling on his sword {resignation})

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoop

Thank you Dsurf ...nice translation :)

Nita...I too was a BK fan, but went anti about the same time as you did. It seemed the whole market did as the share price starting falling from that time onwards. (September 2005, Bridgecorp/Hugh Green/BK shanangins and early December 2005 BK announced his falling on his sword {resignation})

---

I went off BK in the early '90s with the demise of General Properties. His actions at that time showed that he is able to perform in times of boom, but appears to be somewhat impotent when the music stops playing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve

I went off BK in the early '90s with the demise of General Properties. His actions at that time showed that he is able to perform in times of boom, but appears to be somewhat impotent when the music stops playing...

---

General properties, BK how does that work?
By the way BK resigned the day he did the deal with Bridgecorp the only problem was the DPC board did not accept the resignation till 6 months later.

Queenstown? Anyone ask the question? The reason i havent is they are unlikely to give information to someone such as myself who doesnt hold the stock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nita

Queenstown? Anyone ask the question? The reason i havent is they are unlikely to give information to someone such as myself who doesnt hold the stock

---

Nita, You might want to ask that question before you buy DPC shares, they should give you that answer regardless of whether you own the stock or not?
:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James Bond

Nita, You might want to ask that question before you buy DPC shares, they should give you that answer regardless of whether you own the stock or not?
:D

---

In a normal sense you are quite correct. However, my feeling is that this is not a normal situation.

Nita
DPC only have a small mature exposure in Q,town. They are not into any new developments or dicky positions with what they hold. I cannot remember exactly the name of the holding they have but it is residual.
I do know they have an interest in some development land. But are sitting on that. Land is not dropping in price around the area, quite the reverse.
The developers that are in the sh*t here are those who are in the process of building and are trying to sell some bloody awful dog boxes and ideas that are 20 years ahead of the times.
Cheers BB
Dis hold DPC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nita

In a normal sense you are quite correct. However, my feeling is that this is not a normal situation.

---

Nita, A piece of advice, when dealing in the stockmarket, dont feel, THINK!

You cant become emotional about stocks, and DPC's problems are cyclical, they were allways going to happen, in fact BK told the board in 2005 that the tough times were coming and that they should prepare. Quite normal really. I am sure if you google BK you can find plenty of articles of BK predicting gloom in the finance sector.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James Bond

Nita, A piece of advice, when dealing in the stockmarket, dont feel, THINK!

You cant become emotional about stocks, and DPC's problems are cyclical, they were allways going to happen, in fact BK told the board in 2005 that the tough times were coming and that they should prepare. Quite normal really. I am sure if you google BK you can find plenty of articles of BK predicting gloom in the finance sector.

---

Let me rephrase that for you. I THINK and i base my decisions on what i know best. If in doubt i stay out. Yes i may miss out on a bargain and DPC may be one of them.

I come from a background of having to take emotions out of the equation so you do not need to worry about me in that regard. Unfortuntately the english language can mean that you say one thing but actually mean something else.

DPC needs a dramtic rethink IMO. Although reverse mortages will prove popular in the future they are a long term plan. What DPC is having problems is short term.

BB. Interesting comment thanks. As a queentowner you will have your finger on the pulse much more than i ever will with regards to property in that region. If you are correct then my view is overly drastic. However, if DPC intend to sit on property then this will not solve their short term cash flow problem. In fact it will only contribute to their demise.

I give DPC 3 months

You give them 3 months.
I think they will pull through this credit squeeze and reshape slowly.
They still have good money out via Senat and that no doubt is there
cash flow right now. They are not makeing new car loans, just winding
down the book. They still have assets to sell.
65 mill out and 25% of that in property which most of is returning cash.
I think they report about end of May. We should all get a better picture
then.
At 50c a share. I am using my spec money on them.
Queenstown is certainly not their problem right now.
Cheers BB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James Bond

General properties, BK how does that work?

---

Originates from the Dorchester & Smythe days. The companies office may still have the records on file, should you wish to do a search...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nita

Let me rephrase that for you. I THINK and i base my decisions on what i know best. If in doubt i stay out. Yes i may miss out on a bargain and DPC may be one of them.

I come from a background of having to take emotions out of the equation so you do not need to worry about me in that regard. Unfortuntately the english language can mean that you say one thing but actually mean something else.

DPC needs a dramtic rethink IMO. Although reverse mortages will prove popular in the future they are a long term plan. What DPC is having problems is short term.

BB. Interesting comment thanks. As a queentowner you will have your finger on the pulse much more than i ever will with regards to property in that region. If you are correct then my view is overly drastic. However, if DPC intend to sit on property then this will not solve their short term cash flow problem. In fact it will only contribute to their demise.

I give DPC 3 months

---

Nita - you mention reverse mortgage business - are DPC intio that in a significant way? I ask because I read somewhere yesterday that Sentinel, who apparently have 80% of this business, are winding back their involvement. With high interest rates compounding, no mortgage or interest repayments due, declining property prices, and lengthening life expectancy, the gloss of this business is apparently beginning to wear off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by COLIN

Nita - you mention reverse mortgage business - are DPC intio that in a significant way? I ask because I read somewhere yesterday that Sentinel, who apparently have 80% of this business, are winding back their involvement. With high interest rates compounding, no mortgage or interest repayments due, declining property prices, and lengthening life expectancy, the gloss of this business is apparently beginning to wear off.

---

Yes, Sentinal are the market leader and I believe that they have indicated that their business model has not been moving with the times...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by COLIN

you mention reverse mortgage business - are DPC intio that in a significant way?

---

You can find some information on Dorchester's Reverse Mortgage offering here:
Dorchester - Reverse Mortgages and Home Equity Release

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

Nita
DPC only have a small mature exposure in Q,town. They are not into any new developments or dicky positions with what they hold. I cannot remember exactly the name of the holding they have but it is residual.
I do know they have an interest in some development land. But are sitting on that. Land is not dropping in price around the area, quite the reverse.
Cheers BB
Dis hold DPC

---

Nita
The above is very wrong :o:o
I was digging in council records this morning and found an interesting thing. So I kept digging and found some more.
The council have (for public use) old agenda,s and on those old agenda,s
Who sold and bought what and how much for and who put up the money,
etc etc....
I find... Dorchester have interest's in :-
Alpine village (Units)
Beacon (I think is one of wensley's) Managed Apartments
A Gibston valley winery
Queenstown Lodge Hotel Gold ridge (hotel)
Sherwood Manner (hotel)
There may be some others but did not have time to search.
It seams about $60 - $70 mill dollars involved all up.
Word has it that there could be some mortagee sales on Alpine Village &,
Beacon.
Sorry for previous post
Cheers BB

Billy Boy.

No problem and thanks for your reply. The best thing to come out of it is the fact that someone bothered to look into it a bit further. Therefore you are in a better shape to make an informed decision.

I noticed in todays news (Good Returns) DPC was of the intended purchasers of Vestar the beleagered Investment firm owned by MFS, But arent DPC selling the other Advisory firm Equity Investment advisers & Stockbrokers? At Least that is what they said earlier this year. Am i confused or is DPC's Management ??

Cn anyone with facts help out?

The Good Oil these two companies are quite different animals

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Good Oil

I noticed in todays news (Good Returns) DPC was of the intended purchasers of Vestar the beleagered Investment firm owned by MFS, But arent DPC selling the other Advisory firm Equity Investment advisers & Stockbrokers? At Least that is what they said earlier this year. Am i confused or is DPC's Management ??

Cn anyone with facts help out?

---

Yep I can

At the AGM on 23 August 2007, ie 9 months ago,

"Chief executive officer, Mr Andrew Walker, detailed a streamlined future direction for the company that was the result of a 12 month strategic review.

“A key part of the review was to identify the most appropriate strategy for the company. We concluded that in order to move forward, we needed to simplify and focus the company on those businesses with the greatest potential.

“Our future focus is on non-consumer related finance activities, the home equity release market and savings products.

We are exiting the Auckland used car market, shutting down sub-scale operations, and selling the investment advisory business and non core property assets."

..... The investment advisory business is Equity & Moneyonline Investment Advisors. It buys interest rate ( a lot of finace company paper), equities etc for clients. It was probably worth a lot in August 07 when the credit crunch had not hit NZ.

Another announcement later said it would be sold first quarter 08"

Given that most clients will have lost on the finance company paper & thier shares I wonder if is profitable or loss-making. It would be nice to know such trivial matters from a public company!

Anyway CEO inaction has cost shareholders at least $2m ( the difference between the original FY NPAT & the last one) in my opinion.

The board must go - they are a boys club that will drain this company dry and the CEO is a clown

1 May 2008
Company Announcement

DORCHESTER PACIFIC ANTICIPATES INCREASED PROVISIONING

The board of Dorchester Pacific today advised that the previous profit
guidance of $3 to $4 million for the financial year ended 31 March 2008 will
not be achieved as a result of trading conditions in a difficult finance
market and a lower than anticipated contribution from St Laurence Limited.

The directors also advised that given a recent deterioration in the property
market which they believe is significant and unlikely to improve in the short
term, they have determined to take additional provisions on property loans.
This provisioning takes into account the longer time it is now expected to
take to realise some property positions. A review is also underway of the
carrying value of investments, including the 25% holding in St Laurence
Limited which may further impact the FY08 profit.

Chairman of Dorchester Pacific, Mr Barry Graham, said: "There has been a
deterioration in property asset values against which lending is secured and
we anticipate this could result in an increase in provisioning of around $5
million after tax. The review of the value of St Laurence may result in a
non-operating impact to shareholder's equity.

"Cash holdings continue to remain consistently above $30 million and we
maintain positive matching between our debenture obligations and incoming
cash from the repayment of loan receivables. We are therefore currently
comfortable in our ability to repay debenture obligations as they fall due.
We have maintained a diversified loan book, with our top five loans
accounting for only around 25% of our total receivables with none of these
being inter-related parties."

The company also today announced that CEO Andrew Walker has resigned to take
up a role at Auguste Holdings Limited. Auguste Holdings holds a substantial
majority of the shares in Auguste Finance Limited, which is the majority
shareholder in St Laurence Limited and a substantial shareholder in
Dorchester Pacific. Dorchester Pacific holds a 25% stake in St Laurence.

Mr Andrew Walker said: "Having set the path forward for Dorchester in a
difficult finance market I feel that the time is right for me to move on and
to take on a new challenge. I am proud to be leaving the company in a strong
and liquid position."

Mr Graham said: "Andrew's services will be available to Dorchester through
his new role at Auguste Holdings which will ensure continuity while new
management arrangements are put in place.

"Going forward we will continue to simplify the business and reduce costs.
We will de-emphasise capital intensive activities and focus on new business
opportunities which leverage the company's existing expertise and
infrastructure.

"On behalf of Dorchester, I would like to thank Andrew for his leadership
over a period of major market upheaval and uncertainty. He has contributed
significantly to re-engineering Dorchester Pacific for a changed market
environment."

ENDS

What have we been saying the current management have destroyed any value in Dorchester.
They are having to write down St Laurence, now that's a surprise, NOT.
Did the CEO describe it as the "best deal he had ever done", hate to see his other deals.

Is anyone really surprised by todays announcement?
It was inevitable that Walker would go before the Annual Result was announced and certainly before the Annual Meeting.
I am really looking forward to DSurf's interpretation of todays announcement.
I am not looking forward to receiving the Annual Report and reading the payments to Directors and Executives.
I own the minimum number of shares in DPC to attend the Annual Meeting, which I think should be made to coincide with the dates of the Comedy Festival.

Lew

This has to be one of my worst investments in the portfolio. I will attend the AGM and ask some hard questions. Best thing is for DPC to sell all the assets and return cash to shareholders. :mad:

It strikes me as odd that Brynes continues to buy and average down. Does he know something we dont? The only reassurance is that Stl, HG and Brynes are all in this and if it goes under, we all go with it.

The hits just keep in coming

DPC to be in the 20's by end of June? Next news from DPC will be bad I am afraid.

AW said he is proud of his achievements. The company is very liquid (except shareholders value has been decimated) Hmm. Glad he didnt have a bad couple of years.

Again, lack of info i am afraid....going...going..gone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bermuda

Nita,
I hope you are not buying. You cant turn a profit if enquiries are diminishing. A mate of mine who works for them said it is very hard when the enquiry level is down 60 %.

Why bother with this stock which is under pressure?

---

Nita,
I hope you took the opportunity to get out in March.

DPC has a market cap of $14 M, NTA $1.70(?) and cash in the bank of $30 M. Am I missing something or is DPC trading way below NTA and cash holding?

[QUOTE=Nita;197697]The hits just keep in coming

I'm astonished that AW thinks he thinks he has left the company in a strong position. I wonder what he considers a poor position.

The fact is he has left DPC with
- no direction
- a $30m investment in ST Laurence that is probably at best worth $10m
- $35m less cash
- Shareholders facing large writedowns in property (which when he started was his new direction.
- unusually large loan exposures to Queenstown property

In defence of AW, when he started he had no finace sector experience, no CEO experience, no management experience, yet the board appointed him.

The board must take responsibility for this and some of the ludicrious decisions in the last year and a bit

I really wonder what role Kevin Podmore has employed AW to do?

Dont be to quick to judge DPC yet....
Lets get a look at their book at F/Y and I hope they dont try to fudge them.
They are cleaning out the cuppboards in regards ceo's etc, they dont have immediate problems in repaying their debentures. and the assets here in Q,town are all earners and established (except beacon & Alpine village but they should earn over the ski season)
We need a clear picture on the/any defaulters
and as bermuda always says " the info is there is you look hard"
BB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

Dont be to quick to judge DPC yet....
Lets get a look at their book at F/Y and I hope they dont try to fudge them.
They are cleaning out the cuppboards in regards ceo's etc, they dont have immediate problems in repaying their debentures. and the assets here in Q,town are all earners and established (except beacon & Alpine village but they should earn over the ski season)
We need a clear picture on the/any defaulters
and as bermuda always says " the info is there is you look hard"
BB

---

I hope you are right about repaying debentures. Not certain you can trust they know what is happening. Have they only just realised that property values are falling. To put out two profit downgrades in a month is unbelievable.

Do they really know there liquidity profile. Has it accounted for the slower and lower property sales?

The major shareholders need to act and ensure that they get some experience in at CEO. Maybe it would be in the best interests of shareholders to put it into voluntary administration and appoint an administrator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bermuda

Nita,
I hope you took the opportunity to get out in March.

---

Bermuda. I got out of this stock some 2 to 3 years ago when it was over $2.60. I still lost a little bit but it was negligable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr_Who

DPC has a market cap of $14 M, NTA $1.70(?) and cash in the bank of $30 M. Am I missing something or is DPC trading way below NTA and cash holding?

---

Yes you are missing something. No good having $30m cash if your debts are more or your asset value is colapsing or the money you have loaned are high risk and there are mortgagee sales and the loan amount is higher than the value of the asset. Or your investment into other companies are going peer shape. Anything else.

How is there debt to equity ratio? They talk about $30m cash or should i say cash equivalent.

The only ones who will make money out of this stock is a select few

I have been saying and giving some clues for months about this stock. In this sector there continues to a be a lack disclosure. Why would anyone want to play russian Roulette with this stock without nknowing much about it. It is committing suicide.

There is a saying..If it looks too good to be true it most problably is.

All announcements from this board are BS and totally unreliable

why anyone would believe NTA as published is beyond me.

Can anyone tell me any profitable activity that DPC does that earns a profit?

thank god the clown has gone

but the boat will go down under the weight of the board who remain

Never believe anything the mangement of this company say

also how many millions is the loss going to be?

mmm 6m profit announced

then 3 to 4m profit

then "we will not make 3 or 4m profit" & will not give a forecast - why not - because it is a huge loss coming.

This company has not made an operting profit for years - can't wait for it to disappear!

The bigest mistake they made was getting tied up with ST Laurence, sounds like they are going to write down their ST Laurence holdings by a large percentage.

Not sure why people are still shareholders in this company. It's been clear for a long time that shareholders were being disrespected and that the company would be entering a more difficult cimate. Surely a sell signal?
I quit the last of my positions back in March 2007 for a decent profit and am very glad that I didn't hang on to see profits disappear.

It's worth storing in the memory banks just who has been involved with DPC at both board and executive level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glennj

It's worth storing in the memory banks just who has been involved with DPC at both board and executive level.

---

Agree.....

BB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glennj

Not sure why people are still shareholders in this company. It's been clear for a long time that shareholders were being disrespected and that the company would be entering a more difficult cimate. Surely a sell signal?
I quit the last of my positions back in March 2007 for a decent profit and am very glad that I didn't hang on to see profits disappear.

It's worth storing in the memory banks just who has been involved with DPC at both board and executive level.

---

Is it worth a new thread - "Management & Executives of failed finance companies"?

REL: 1556 HRS Viking Capital Limited



GENERAL: VIK: Viking Slams Dorchester Announcement



?

PRESS RELEASE



Viking Slams Dorchester Announcement



We have been approached by a number of members of the Media to comment on the

Dorchester Pacific Press Release dated 1st May 2008.



As a significant shareholder, we wish to state our position so different

media do not get a different understanding.



Our position is as follows:



Until the appointment of Walker, Dorchester had been managed very

conservatively with respect to its capital ratios and lending policies. The

company had also been diversified so that it could meet its targets even when

conditions in the finance sector worsened. This situation was predicted by

previous management. Walker and the board out of ignorance changed the

business model by:



1. Making large loans on illiquid assets.



2. Investing precious capital reserves in an ill considered manner.



If they had stuck to the business model they would have had the opportunity

to make excellent profits now. Dorchester would have been in a vastly

different financial position to other finance businesses which have failed,

because it would have had financial reserves. With less competition, rising

interest rates and an increasingly desperate base of potential borrowers the

time would have been ripe. Instead, they squandered that opportunity. With

experienced management, a new board and support from its funding base,

Dorchester would still be a fantastic business, but it desperately needs

quality management and governance.



Announcement

We are stunned by the announcements and do not believe that this is an

acceptable statement from a Board of a public company.



The statement concerning the write down of the St Laurence is bewildering.

Only 2 months ago Dorchester made its first profit downgrade announcement

without any reference to a revaluation of their investment in St Laurence.

Three directors of Dorchester, namely Barry Graham, Kevin Podmore and Andrew

Walker are also directors of St Laurence Ltd. Surely they would have known

of the deterioration of Dorchester's investment at that time.



To announce a write down of the St Laurence investment only one year after

the original acquisition is unacceptable. The euphoric statements from the

Chairman and CEO ("This deal was the best deal I have ever done ") at the

time are now quite absurd.



Clearly the wasting of $20.m cash at that critical time was a very poor

decision.



Vikings position, along with many other Dorchester shareholders was that the

price paid was too high and this has been borne out.



There may be more matters to surface about this deal and many people are

watching this with interest.



We are deeply concerned about the overall state of the company and the

performance of the Board and the CEO who has now resigned. We continue to be

concerned with their lack of transparency in company statements. For

example, you would expect more detailed information on the reasons for the

resignation / termination and the date of his departure to be stated. It

would further be normal to state what the financial implications, if any, for

the company were from this resignation, e.g. bonuses etc.



We believe it is incumbent on the board to advise the market their plan for

the management of the Company in the short and medium terms.



We are equally concerned about the impact of the announcement on the future

of the Company and the implications for investors, staff and minority

shareholders. We will make further comments early next week.

viking slam dpc.. but I am here to slam viking..about bio... same things heppend here..

[QUOTE=belgarion;197
Will see what the market does and perhaps buy some at todays low. Volumes are pretty thin still.

discl: recent holder and buying.[/QUOTE]

Not a wise move, my friend. Dare I remind you of FTX? This one is also headed for oblivion.
Running downhill, trying to catch a rolling cheese, can result in one falling flat on one's face.

The AGM will be very interesting is mr Byrne planning to dramatically change the board he has A lot of shares and possibly accumulating more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by golden city

viking slam dpc.. but I am here to slam viking..about bio... same things heppend here..

---

GC do you really think Vik didn't slam ICP-Bio, cause it would have. Just would not have done in in public, as they have a consructive working relationship. Unfortunately the DPC board and Management have totally dislike for VIK and see them as a threat, so as Viking expected, when DPC management stuffed up, Vik stepped up and slammed them for six. Fair enough after all BK and Vik accurately predicted what faliures DPC would have. I wonder what Hugh Green is thinking today? Will he and BK lay down their guns long enough to to fix DPC, because, to be frank, I dont know, 2 better candidates to take on this task and succeed. Interested in other opinions? Who can fix DPC's deep seated problems?, name your candidates!:eek::eek:.

For the first time I will have to agree with the announcement by BK. It is totally unacceptable and disgraceful. The board on DPC should be sacked and replaced!

I am still wondering why Brynes is accummulating stock. This game is not over yet. Abit like watching daytime soap opera.

I will be at the AGM to give them a blasting!

Dr Who at least those two have got no conection to the ST Laurence mess

This is going to be great. The Annual Meeting is going to be a ripper. I am thinking of selling my proxies 1 share at a time on trademe. The returns will be better than than owning shares in DPC. Their graph looks like the downhill ski run at Coronet Peak.
More stone throwing next week.
In the red corner Barry Graham, happy to be a director when Brent King ran Dorchester and nod at the appropriate time and happy to turn on him after he left. In the blue corner BK who unloaded his shares to Petrocevic at $4 a share and struck a few nerves.
VIK are right to ask about the termination / resignation exit of A Walker.

LEW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mskv

I hope you are right about repaying debentures. Not certain you can trust they know what is happening. Have they only just realised that property values are falling. To put out two profit downgrades in a month is unbelievable.

Do they really know there liquidity profile. Has it accounted for the slower and lower property sales?

---

I wonder if the latest downgrade is a result of the current year-end audit that will be underway as we speak?

Can't wait for the annual result...

As I have previously said, if they have even half-decent finance company software, they should be able to do a liquidity analysis at the push of a button.

Walker is not being replaced.
No rights issue.
No tie up with St Laurence.
NTA at least $1.10.
Liquid, and can meet on-going obligations.
Byrnes buying.
Now a very small Company, declining business.
Has talked about establishing a niche debt collection business, utilising its existing resources.

Looks like its being readied for merger or T/O to me. Good listing opportunity for someone?

Disclaimer: I may have made this up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve

I wonder if the latest downgrade is a result of the current year-end audit that will be underway as we speak?

Can't wait for the annual result...

As I have previously said, if they have even half-decent finance company software, they should be able to do a liquidity analysis at the push of a button.

---

There may be no annual meeting.

I hope you are right Ears. Where did you get the NTA of $1.10 taking out STL?

I have a feeling this is primed for a T/O.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by belgarion

Perhaps that's the problem:
a) software isn't half-decent and it's been turning out rubbish
b) there's no software - mgnt use their thumbs and guts

(Been to a few such companies and they're frequently under-invested in IT and as a result are far from foward looking and have woeful levels of accuracy.)

(Thanks for the concern colin. C and V are making me bullish in this space.)

---

I think you could safely assume they are still using Finzsoft software (FIN:NZX).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr_Who

I hope you are right Ears. Where did you get the NTA of $1.10 taking out STL?

I have a feeling this is primed for a T/O.

---

Graham told me!

I thought that St. Laurence might be adversely affected by the latest DPC developments but I notice that SLPF shares (Unlisted) have actually risen above their issue price since the issue closed - 75% filled. (The existing shares were selling below the price of the rights issue before closing date.)
The SLPF notes convert to ordinary shares in December.
DPC are writing down their investment in St. Laurence; St. Laurence will no doubt write down its investment in DPC, thereby reducing further the value of DPC's investment in St. Laurence - where does it all end!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by COLIN

I thought that St. Laurence might be adversely affected by the latest DPC developments but I notice that SLPF shares (Unlisted) have actually risen above their issue price since the issue closed - 75% filled. (The existing shares were selling below the price of the rights issue before closing date.)
The SLPF shares convert to St. Laurence shares in December. DPC are writing down their investment in St. Laurence; St. Laurence will no doubt write down its investment in DPC, thereby reducing further the value of DPC's investment in St. Laurence - where does it all end! I guess we will have a better idea when the St. Laurence results are released - due soon.

---

SLPF is not St Laurence but ST Laurence manage it. Primarily commercial property exposure.

DPC & St L have no future together in my opinion. I expect a mutual withdrawal.

Further to my previous posts....

Walker was in the news 29 Jan.

Headline "Walker expects big shakedown in finance industry"

Within the article he said..."We will see a number of finance companies that don't collapse, but say, 'we've had enough"

DPC is obviously in that category.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snapper

SLPF is not St Laurence but ST Laurence manage it. Primarily commercial property exposure.

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St. Laurence Ltd is much more than just a manager of St. Laurence Property & Finance Ltd (SLPF) - it is the sole shareholder and a substantial noteholder in SLPF. The last published accounts of SLPF, as at 30/9/07, show Ordinary share capital plus Reserves plus Retained earnings amounting in total to over $94,000,000 - all accruing to St. Laurence, along with their share of the then existing notes plus their share of the new notes. (St Laurence Ltd advised that they would be subscribing in full for their entitlement, both as a shareholder and as a holder of existing notes.) So, all in all, I would say that St. Laurence has a substantial financial stake in SLPF.

How St. Laurence finances its investment in SLPF is a matter for conjecture, given that it does not publish its accounts, but it would be a safe bet that it has substantial borrowings - probably secured largely by charges over its SLPF investments. I'm sure that the worth of St. Laurence Ltd. is quite bound up with its involvement in SLPF.

(Just a correction to my earlier post: the SLPF notes convert to SLPF shares - not St. Laurence Ltd shares -on 1 December 2008.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve

I wonder if the latest downgrade is a result of the current year-end audit that will be underway as we speak?

Can't wait for the annual result...

As I have previously said, if they have even half-decent finance company software, they should be able to do a liquidity analysis at the push of a button.

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Software isn't the issue. Like all software, garbage in garbage out!!

This is more like they don't know how many of their loans aren't going to settle on due date.

Particularly the large loans they have done in Queenstown and Christchurch.

I agree, software discussion is rubbish.


January 2008

Andrew Walker, chief executive of listed finance company Dorchester Pacific, said this week the $20 billion finance company industry may shrink by half or more within two years.

One scenario could see it virtually disappear, he said.

"The retail market hasn't reached the tipping point, but it's getting close to being all over."

He said the industry had mostly funded itself from retail debentures and if confidence collapsed then it would be all over quite quickly.

Everything depended on re-investment rates as C+M discovered.

Alternative funding sources were not viable, due to a storm generated by the US subprime mortgage crisis that has knocked international credit and equity markets, concurrent with the local industry crisis.

The reinvestment rate, the proportion of investors who roll over their investments, fell at Dorchester to 21 per cent in October, but revived to 40 per cent last month. Pre-crisis it was 65-73 per cent across the industry.

"It's very simple mathematics. If it (the reinvestment rate) goes to zero and with average debentures 18 to 24 months, then in that time the industry won't exist," Mr Walker said.

"If the long-run reinvestment rate is 50 per cent, then the industry is going to halve."

The industry had to change its model but that would not be easy as raising money from banks or through equity was equally difficult in the current climate, influenced by the international credit crunch.

Mr Walker said he wouldn't be surprised to see more finance company collapses.

Others will simply close shop. Mergers were not really an option as finance companies' only real assets were their lending teams. (With nothing to lend).

He said finance firms had to boost cash by selling assets, establish funding lines before trouble knocked, cut costs, and nurture their investors with hard information, all of which Dorchester had done."


Since Walker wrote this, the market has deteriorated, & Dorchester has closed its funding lines,(Green & Auguste). Reinvestment rate would be lower.

No future in the finance industry, at their size. What else have they got, zilch.

However probably still sound. Byrnes knows that! Just needs an orderly collection of loans. Don't need a CEO to do that!

Thats my opinion, whats yours.

"Dorchester division sale expected soon
By DAVID HARGREAVES - The Dominion Post | Wednesday, 09 January 2008

Listed finance company Dorchester Pacific might have its investment services division sold before the end of February as it reorganises itself because of tough finance company sector conditions.


Chief executive Andrew Walker said yesterday due diligence on the investment services business had run through the Christmas period and continues this month.

Up to 10 parties originally expressed interest, but this number had been culled for due diligence.

The official target for sale, thought likely to raise between $2.5 million and $5 million, is the end of Dorchester's March financial year."
__________________________________________________ ______________
_
What year did he say this business would sell?
If they get at least the 2.5 million suggested, then that could come in handy.
No wonder he has fallen on his sword, Barry Graham has to go as well.
Time for a right royal rogering, long live the King!, the King, I suggest will return.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mskv

Software isn't the issue. Like all software, garbage in garbage out!!

This is more like they don't know how many of their loans aren't going to settle on due date.

Particularly the large loans they have done in Queenstown and Christchurch.

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MSKV, you sound like you know somthing we mere mortals dont?
How big are these loans?
Are they problimatic?
Could it just be normal loans, repaid at maturity, creating No issues?

You are right about DPC's software, but my friends tell me that its not just DPC's software that is the problem, its their staff that got issued DPC share north of $2.00 and are a bit p---ed about it. OUCH!!!!:eek:

Walker fallen on his sword. Why do you say that? Mutual agreement I'd say.

What do you expect him to do at DPC? Can hardly grow the finance business can he! Its stuffed! Not his fault!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ears

Walker fallen on his sword. Why do you say that? Mutual agreement I'd say.

What do you expect him to do at DPC? Can hardly grow the finance business can he! Its stuffed! Not his fault!

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Who's fault is it if it is not the CEO's & board. I think AW should get a huge payout of several $m for guiding the company so well and being such a huge value generator during his tenure!

I said it was not his fault that the finance industry is stuffed!

Sure, getting into property was bad timing, but at least he got out of the car business. King sold DB, didn't get out of the car business & was responsible for growth, well below the industry average.

Whats important now, is the future. What do you see?

A company with fixed outgoings and a lack of transparent ongoing earnings. It need to change at board level & be recapitalised to survive in it's own right.

Would be amusing to see BK buy the company back for around 10c a share!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsurf

A company with fixed outgoings and a lack of transparent ongoing earnings. It need to change at board level & be recapitalised to survive in it's own right.

Would be amusing to see BK buy the company back for around 10c a share!

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This would not suprise me except if he paid 10 cps. More like 1 cps

I would be surprised if BK could afford much more than 1 cent per share. VIK seems to have poured his money into a bottomless pit in BIO.

BK sells DPC shares to Bridgecorp for $4.00 a share.
BK sells his holdings in DPC to VIK for around $2.00 a share in a float that sees him get a great remuneration package.
VIK looking to raise $20 million through Viking Bonds.
BK continues to slam DPC CEO and Board thus causing share price to stay low.
BK butys back DPC at substantially lower price than NTA?
Cofffee may have been a bit strong this morning.
LEW.

The Teflon King strikes again??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lewinsky

The Teflon King strikes again??

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If tBK can get STL and HG to sell they DPC is his to the taking. What a bargain!

Anyone prepared to start a shareholders resolution to have all or most of board members stand for relection? Especially the Chairman?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by POSSUM THE CAT

Anyone prepared to start a shareholders resolution to have all or most of board members stand for relection? Especially the Chairman?

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You have my vote!

Read the chairman's comments in the papers today.

Dorchester chief defends decision over St Laurence :mad::mad::confused::confused:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4511416a13.html

Never mind. we have... Senate Collections Ltd

One of the new business opportunities, which leverage the company's existing expertise and infrastructure!

[QUOTE=The Good Oil;198127]MSKV, you sound like you know somthing we mere mortals dont?
How big are these loans?
Are they problimatic?
Could it just be normal loans, repaid at maturity, creating No issues?

No more knowledge than the rest of you. I was commenting on information previously talked about on this thread. Apparantly they are problematic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ears

Never mind. we have... Senate Collections Ltd

One of the new business opportunities, which leverage the company's existing expertise and infrastructure!

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Interesting new business but I d't know if there is any money in it.

Your comment on the finance market failing is correct. The only problem is that Dorchester was well positioned to survive the expected wave of failures but AW's and the boards decisions (that we know about) have put it seriously at risk.

Conspirousy theory: Was AW a plant into DPC all along for St Laurence, ie to run the business down and allow STL to acquire it cheap. The plan then went sour when Stl ran out of money to complete there end?????
Too much coffee today!!!

DPC & St L have no future together!

DPC no CEO. DPC has a few small activities. But nothing to justify a listing, imho.

But hang on, whats that ...Ears hears something coming, ..hooves....Could it be the White Knight!

A white knight or a black king

More spleen venting by the VI---King.
Reasonable questions. Interesting to see what the response is.
I would have thought Barry Graham may have a teeny weeny conflict of interest here.
Do I wear my STL hat on today or my Dorchester Cap with the backward d.
Is this the time honourable men fall on their swords?
ie before the Annual Meeting.

LEW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lewinsky

More spleen venting by the VI---King.
Reasonable questions. Interesting to see what the response is.
I would have thought Barry Graham may have a teeny weeny conflict of interest here.
Do I wear my STL hat on today or my Dorchester Cap with the backward d.
Is this the time honourable men fall on their swords?
ie before the Annual Meeting.

LEW

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How much of DPC does VIK still hold?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve

How much of DPC does VIK still hold?

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4% but i suspect it could be much more very soon.

did my post get deleted with regards to king buying back DPC at a bargain price?

More rumblings in today's Herald.
I would be interested in your views Nita.
Or was this the post suggesting a price between 1cent and 10 cents.

Lew

Addition to Lewinsky's post. A interesting piece in today's NZHerald written by Adam Bennett.

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VIKING ATTACK
Last week wasn't a good one for listed finance company Dorchester Pacific.
The company's shares fell to a record low of 36c after it issued its second profit warning in three months, said it expected a $5 million after-tax increase in provisioning on its property loans, and said chief executive Andrew Walker was moving on after just two years.
It's safe to say Dorchester is not the only finance company facing a revaluation of its property lending portfolio given what's happening in that market. The company now says its March year profit will be $3 to $4 million, down from $6 million previously advised.
This has all given fresh ammunition to Dorchester founder and disaffected shareholder Brent King of Viking Capital.
King has for some time been critical of Dorchester's direction, which has raised eyebrows, as he has been steadily selling off his holding, and getting ever decreasing prices for the shares.
Walker reckons his work at Dorchester, putting in place a simplified structure and effectively downsizing the company, was sensible given the deteriorating market conditions.
However, Walker points out he is going to "friends and family" rather than heading for the hills, taking up a role of investment and portfolio management at Kevin Podmore and Mike O'Sullivan's Auguste Holdings, the ultimate owner of a 75 per cent stake in St Laurence and a 20 per cent stake in Dorchester, which in turn owns 25 per cent of St Laurence.
NO BASKET CASE
While the likes of the Shareholders Association's Bruce Sheppard, a man with Viking tendencies of his own, have joined Brent King in bagging Walker's performance and that of the company, Kapiti Coast broker Chris Lee reckons that Dorchester is far from a basket case.
Lee believes the company will likely write down the value of its property loans by a far heftier amount than indicated last week in a bid to clear the decks, and he reckons that's what a number of finance companies should be doing.
However, even with the deeper writedowns, he says the company's net asset backing will still be above $1, and he points out it has $33 million in cash on hand.
With its shares closing yesterday at 40c, someone so inclined could virtually take it over using its own money, says Lee, adding that this would not have escaped the attention of Podmore and Hugh Green who between them hold 40 per cent of the company.

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It seems to suggest that AW found it tough as CEO and now going back home to live with his parents. This is going to leave DPC rudderless again.
When STL got involved with DPC it came as a surprise by financial insiders as to why STL would desire to be in bed with this small niche unrelated company. It seems STL (DPC's white knight) has changed it's strategic direction with DPC and a future merger is off... this situation must mean that DPC has become more vulnerable to corporate predators.

It has all the factors in place for takeover.

1......CEO going back to parent company indicating they have lost interest in DPC as it is considered too hard and expensive to kick start this company or the job has been done (whatever it was).
2......Bits has been sold off, DPC is now a fat cash-cow..unproductive..and is now ready for the meat works. (Share price 40c.. Nett Assets over $1.00)
3......DPC accountant buying into a falling share price
4......BK has stopped selling DPC shares.,,but still bagging the company over poor performance. VIK looking to raise money (Hostile?? or a planned part of T/O or a red-herring?)
5......High disregard to small investors. Small investors kept in the dark regarding DPC restructuring, and hijacking by STL, and the resulting slow creep of shares transferred from disenchanted small investors to an area of owners close within the DPC playing field (exception being BK ?? maybe not?)
6......Adding more to point 5... small investors received no good news all bad news from a company that didn't promote good will has seen a small share investor exodus lowering the share price from 250c - 40c yet no public outrage from Hugh Green???
7.....AW seen from the outside general public as a poor performing CEO..from people in the know (incl Chris Lee) he has done a good job within a hostile environment. His resignation was planned not pushed?
8.....Winding down of company activities
9 ....Large cash reserves ($33 million?)
10...Writedowns maybe over conservative, company maybe worth more than perceived.

Disc Have no DPC shares

I see they have finally sold Equity Investments, and the other similar bodies, for only $1m plus. Hardly going to make a ripple in the overall pool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nita

did my post get deleted with regards to king buying back DPC at a bargain price?

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correction...its on another thread

Looks like it's being liquidated to me!!!

DPC is very clouded, especially for the average investor. What is going on?
DPC on the brink? I think so
Whats BK motive to openly slag a company that he ad a significant shareholding?
Is BK intending to buy back or takeover DPC through Viking?
How many millions will be written off?
What are the writedowns going to be with their Queenstown investments?
Are DPC true net assets worth at least $1.00 per share? No
will there be more significant bad news before the opposite happens? Yes at 99%
Who will lose? Small shareholders will
Who will win? BK or someone else?

I sold out of DPC in '05-'06 at prices from 208 to 250cps.
I'm almost tempted to buy back in just so I can watch the fun. I said almost.

All smokes and mirrors. Bunch of tards! They are gonna get a going over come the AGM. :mad::confused:

I am gonna remember those names involved in DPC and will never invest with them in the future. Will advice all my friends so they will also remember the names.

disc: freaking shareholder!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr_Who

All smokes and mirrors. Bunch of tards! They are gonna get a going over come the AGM. :mad::confused:

I am gonna remember those names involved in DPC and will never invest with them in the future. Will advice all my friends so they will also remember the names.

disc: freaking shareholder!

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DPC may not be the same company come AGM time.

I really dont know what the outcome will be with DPC within 12 months time. There are many different possibilities but i am 100% convinced it wont look the same as it is now.

another profit warning on the horinzon.

DR Who do you want a nomination for the board

9 months to sell a subsidiary for $1.3 million.
What did Equity cost DPC.
The Board must be really stoked with this major sale and so they can now concentrate on the new undisclosed direction for DPC.
Suggested Directors
Mark Byers
Rod Petrecovic
Lisa Lewis
Mark Ellis
and Theresa Gatting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lewinsky

9 months to sell a subsidiary for $1.3 million.
What did Equity cost DPC.

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Don't know what it cost but it stood in their books at $2.1m. Another little write-down.

It was originally purchased from Phil Briggs for shares in DPC from memory. Does Phil still have shares in DPC? I guess that he used to be in the top20 sharehloders list...

VIK & BK were excluded from the sale process. So BK got an investment advisor working for IRG which is owned by VIK to buy it. VIK then bought it off the advisor.

The circus continues!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsurf

VIK & BK were excluded from the sale process. So BK got an investment advisor working for IRG which is owned by VIK to buy it. VIK then bought it off the advisor.

The circus continues!!!!

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And King can't resist another opportunity to use this announcement to further slam DPC in public! These sorts of tactics don't sit well with me, and hardly engender respect for the man.
DPC should consider taking out an injunction against him, if they want to defend their name.

DISC: I have no financial interest in DPC or VIK (perish the thought!)

Beautiful,
Dorchester tells its shareholders last year

"Dorchester's investment services businesses, including Equity, Money Online
and NZ Investor, are well positioned to take advantage of the growth in this
market sector. The result for the year was impacted by last year's sale of
Direct Broking and a downturn in brokerage from finance company debentures.
We are expanding the services offered to remove the business' reliance on
brokerage revenue to create more sustainable income based on value added
services and advisory fees", said Mr Walker.

Well positioned to take advantage of the growth in this market segment and we are expanding the services.

Then they announce a sale process that takes nine months and as the financial services sector declines so does the sale price.

They book a loss on the sale.

Then they sell it to a party associated with IRG a subsidiary of VIK.

Who then sells it to VIK at a profit and for a price VIK would have been prepared to pay DPC.

Unfortunately ego's have overriden rationale decision making.

BK must be enjoying having a cold beer over this.

LEW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsurf

VIK & BK were excluded from the sale process. So BK got an investment advisor working for IRG which is owned by VIK to buy it. VIK then bought it off the advisor.

The circus continues!!!!

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Dsurf, that is an outrageous claim. No where did it say it was an IRG adviser,
He was an EX Spicers adviser operating on his own. He might be a wealthier adviser today, but its a brave man who stands between the DPC board and BK, i don't envy him one bit.

It is a shame that BK has again slagged off DPC, but as a DPC shareholder it is his democratic right to do so, in fact as a large shareholder it is just about an obligation, and he rightly pointed out once again, the DPC shareholder losses out because of DPC negligence.

As a DPC shareholder i cannot understand how DPC can exclude Viking from the buying process. After all it already owns an Investment advisory firm, and clearly had cash to buy it. Under what basis was this decision made? I for one will be at the next AGM to ask BG that question. That adviser effectively stole my money, legaly, with the assistance of DPC, and that is outrageous!!!!

Further tongue thrashing by BK. Either this is very personal and/or T/O target. Whatever it is, it is bloody disgraceful and destroying SH's value. As a shareholder, I am pissed off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr_Who

Further tongue thrashing by BK. Either this is very personal and/or T/O target. Whatever it is, it is bloody disgraceful and destroying SH's value. As a shareholder, I am pissed off.

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Dr Who shareholder value is not being eroded by BK tongue lashings it being destroyed by enept DPC management & the board. If they were doing a great job, he wouldnt be commenting. All share prices eventually follow what the company does, not what people say the company is going to do.:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James Bond

Dr Who shareholder value is not being eroded by BK tongue lashings it being destroyed by enept DPC management & the board. If they were doing a great job, he wouldnt be commenting. All share prices eventually follow what the company does, not what people say the company is going to do.:mad:

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Perhaps BK should have been spending more time focussing on VIKs other investments? ;)

I am still scratching my head as to why Brynes has been buying so many shares lately?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr_Who

I am still scratching my head as to why Brynes has been buying so many shares lately?

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maybe to prevent a take over? He must have by now close to 10% of the business?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackPeter

maybe to prevent a take over? He must have by now close to 10% of the business?

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nope.. HG and STL both hold just less then 20% shareholding each, so dont need Brynes to do that. I dont know, but I smell a rat. Too many smoke bombs, cant see further than 1 foot.