That's for NZOG and you to answer.
NZOG had its grubby hands all over Pike River - and it will not part with $1 of the insurance money to do the right and moral thing with the families of the dead miners.
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""NZOG had its grubby hands all over Pike River - and it will not part with $1 of the insurance money to do the right and moral thing with the families of the dead miners. ""
ok.... I should not be posting after a few beers on a friday night, but..... didnt the banks get about a 1/3 of the payout.... and nzog put up a few 10s of millions to try to get into the mine, and then also paid out 10 or more mill to tradies and suppliers etc....... at the end of all the payments to others there wasnt much left for nzog.
the families have received quite substantial payouts to date........ a fair amount?.... that I cant judge..... but compared to other industrial accident victims..... lots more.
as for grubby hands all over pike....... I can in part agree with that........ but we do have employment laws in NZ that is supposed to stop corporate grubby hands.... yet the accident still happened.
With the mine being permanently closed now with no re entry...... and no actual proof of what really happened..... how can anyone or any entity procure a blame or actual cause?
The mine can be re entered...... if not from the drift....... then from the vent ....... the mine is only 100 meters or so below the ground.
yet....... no re entry ever........ whats with that?....... what is being hidden?
Going into the mine is not an impossibility..... and the answers are there.
then.......... we can place blame.
as for TR...... I would be happy to see him in a court room chair answering questions.
only then would I be content with what ever outcome happens.
neopoleII ,I believe the greatest crime took place on the first two days after the first explosion. Some cop an x school teacher with no idea what he was doing decided to cover his butt and let no rescue take place. We do live in a crazy mixed up world generally run by lawyers so we end up with a situation that if you take an action that saves 10 people there is no credit,but a large deficit if you risk a life to save several others is entirely on the organiser .
I also strongly believe that not going into the mine is to hide evidence. Would not suprise me that some miners sat around waiting for a rescue being told that it was the safe thing to do. No panic just hold still and all would be right.
Even now we should cut the crap and enter the mine.
Would the mine inspector who just OK the mine be the first under a civil action. Or would it be John Key because under his watch costs were cut and left only 4 mine inspectors for the entire south Island.
neopoleII I believe you are right that until the mine is entered no entity can be blamed as the evidence hidden.
Balance - 5272 posts on NZO & PRC, should that be Imbalance?
Now now Balance you alone are the only saint that has ever come my way.
Cheers have a good weekend.
Some good questions raised so worthy of replies :
1. NZOG retained the bulk of the insurance payout. Andrew Knight was on Campbell Live defending its decision not to pay compensation to the families, citing the same thing - ie. NZOG had paid to suppliers, creditors, provide short term loan etc. He could not rebut the counter argument which was that NZOG did it for commercial reasons - to place itself in a position to control the outcome of the insurance claim and what happened to Pike mine. There was nothing charitable about NZOG's actions.
2. Corporate grubby hands - laws will not stop them. Only deter them. Look at what happened with the finance companies - all the laws in the world and we had crooks managing and mis-using billions of dollars of depositors' money. Pike River is worse than that - mishap after mishap, problem after problem, cost over-run on a grand scale, warnings from staff - but the company charged ahead raising funds one after another to plug the problems, closing eyes to what was really happening.
3. No actual proof? Plenty from the Royal Commission of Inquiry pointing to the litany of gross disregard for safety etc etc as well as gross mismanagement. Police obtains convictions all the time on circumstantial evidence and expert testimonies. Same here.
I find it truly amazing at this day and age that the government is blamed for the explosion at Pike River when it is clear that the explosion happened because Pike River/NZOG directors and management developed and managed the mine on a 'profit above all else' basis.
Plenty of traffic laws out there but hundreds still die from road accidents each year. Likewise, the mining rules are there but Pike directors and management chose to ignore them.
No mine, no explosion.
No safety breaches, no explosion.
The fact that TR and Gordon Ward, the two most instrumental in pushing ahead with Pike, refused to testify speaks volume.
[QUOTE=Balance
The fact that TR and Gordon Ward, the two most instrumental in pushing ahead with Pike, refused to testify speaks volume.[/QUOTE]
Balance you are too impressed with yourself. You make wide statements and then assume they are true because over time you have often said so.
For others you have made this statement but can never follow it with facts. Again for the X time where and when did TR and GW refuse to testify. The truth that you refuse to deal with is that they were never called by the RC.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike...attend-inquiry
Excerpt : "A commission spokeswoman confirmed Ward had been asked to give evidence at this month's hearings, which resumed in the Greymouth District Court yesterday.
However, he declined to give oral or written evidence for any of the inquiry's four phases, she said."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike...-after-tragedy
Digger, it is sad that you as someone who follows NZOG so closely have just showed yourself as incapable of facing the truth.
A fatal lapse of memory on your part - begs the question about your recollection of everything else about NZOG and Pike.
AS you well know declining and refusing to testify are in the eyes of the law entirely different things. Now stop the playing and show where both TR and GW refused to testify.
Can't poor Balance because it never happened regardless of how many of times you assert it did.