Well Skol ,u had your opportunity.
I will give #1 of a lot of reasons why not to invest in airlines.
#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjZn...eature=related
Printable View
Well Skol ,u had your opportunity.
I will give #1 of a lot of reasons why not to invest in airlines.
#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjZn...eature=related
Are you digging yourself a bunker and stockin up down there on the west coast too Tricha? :D
Doesnt that fella in Texas realize where he lives. Nobody else will prepare and when the **** does hit the fan and the last can of beans runs out they will come with guns and take it all off him.:D
Hi tricha,
Take a look at American airlines (AMR) on the NYSE. Doubled in two days!
US Airways (LCC) a two and a half bagger in 5 days!
The point is that airlines are crap investments but great pump and dump candidates when oil corrects. Someone has made serious money in the last week...
AMR,
ticker code is same as your user name...
I had alook at the chart on AMR (american Airlines) and the SP was higher in May than it is now... 25bucks in Sept 07, now $8.53...
gaining back some major losses perhaps...
As for LLC, the SP was two times higher in May than now... $30 in Sept 07, now 4.54...
Agreed, Airlines are poor investing stocks... anyone who suggests otherwise should be ripped apart by a mob of angry beasts in the Pit of Doom...
Yes perhaps someone has made some serious money over the last week, what about the other 99.9% of investors...
Skol, Sell your positions mate...
stick to toy planes....
errrrooooommmmnnnnnn....
:cool:
.^sc
I'm very busy for the next 36hrs Tricha,(airline business booming) but when I get a moment we will examine the relative performance of oil vs. airline shares since the date Bermuda challenged me to a contest of his worst oiler vs. QAN. Not looking good for Bermuda at the moment. Cheers
Yeah but the beauty of moonshine is u can run your car on it Strat :p
Sorry Skol, I would have prefered that u started this thread. Start another one if u would like, they r not my cup of tea.
11:27 AM, 28 Jul 2008
Stephen Bartholomeusz
Qantas' rising star
Given the context in which it is now operating, the Qantas board’s decision to appoint Jetstar’s chief executive, Alan Joyce, to succeed Geoff Dixon, is perhaps something of a surprise.
The personable Irishman was one of three very strong internal contenders for the job. The others were John Borghetti, who has very successfully managed the Qantas business, and chief financial officer Peter Gregg.
Either Borghetti or Gregg would have been seen as a safe pair of hands during a very turbulent and threatening period in the history of the Qantas group, with record oil prices threatening the viability of the entire industry and forcing Qantas and its global peers to take dramatic steps to enhance their ability to survive.
Only this month Dixon announced another severe reduction in capacity and 1500 job losses as Qantas seeks to mitigate the impact of the oil price and a slowing global and domestic economy.
The choice of Dixon’s successor was always going to be a delicate one given that, despite Dixon’s success in positioning Qantas as one of the most profitable and dynamic of the international carriers during his seven years at the helm, the environment in which the airline is operating remains in a challenging state of flux.
Joyce, 42, is an ebullient and entrepreneurial character who has done a terrific job of launching Jetstar, positioning it as the lowest-cost domestic carrier and building the fledgling outlines of an international network. He joined Qantas from Aer Lingus in 2003.
Jetstar has been the beneficiary of Dixon’s strategy of shifting lower-margin routes from the Qantas brands to the lower-cost carrier, but Joyce has managed that shift in capacity and volume seamlessly and the brand has won accolades within the international aviation community.
The additional challenge confronting him when he takes over from Dixon in November after the Qantas annual general meeting will be not only retaining Borghetti and Gregg but maintaining what has been a very stable and respected senior executive team, at a point where stability and experience is valuable.
The decision to appoint Joyce underscores what was already evident. The Qantas board sees Jetstar and its low-cost platform as the future of the Qantas group. The Qantas brand will remain, but it appears it will increasingly be targeted to higher-margin routes that attract business customers.
Given the increasing emphasis on Jetstar, it makes sense to appoint a CEO with Joyce’s background and experience in, not just the Jetstar brand and strategies, but low-cost carriers more generally.
The Qantas board may also feel that Joyce, who conveys an impression of, if not hyperactivity, then considerable energy, might be best suited to oversee a period of significant and rapid structural change in the group.
Qantas is preparing for the float of its frequent flyer program, it has plans for the future spin-outs of its freight interests and, if market conditions do improve, a vehicle that would own its fleet and leases.
When Dixon announced the capacity cuts earlier this month, Qantas’ international network was cut while Jetstar’s is likely to grow by 15 per cent-plus – the conditions are accelerating and amplifying the strategy of displacing Qantas with the Jetstar brand on the more marginal routes, both the domestic and, increasingly, the international routes.
The Qantas board and its relatively new chairman Leigh Clifford (he became chairman last November) have handled a difficult and potentially destabilising process well. It was good governance that the succession process was left to Clifford, the incoming chairman, rather than Margaret Jackson, the outgoing chairman.
Jackson and Dixon, in particular, deserve credit for ensuring there were a number of high-calibre internal candidates to choose from. There was never any real likelihood that Qantas would bring someone in from outside the group.
Dixon, of course, will go down in Qantas’ history as a pivotal figure. He has led the airline through a succession of threats and challenges, reinventing it continuously to maintain its reputation as one of the world’s best and most profitable carriers.
The launch of Jetstar and the continuing and substantial shift of Qantas volume onto a separately-branded lower-cost platform was, given the failure of similar attempts offshore, a remarkable achievement.
Dixon might be handing Qantas over to Joyce at one of the most difficult moments in the industry’s history – which is saying something, given the roller-coaster nature of the industry’s fortunes – but he will hand it over in pretty good shape, relative to its competitors.
http://bspecc.iguana2.com/bspectator/stock/QAN
Share This Story
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/digg.gif http://www.businessspectator.com.au/.../propeller.gif http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/facebook.gif http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/reddit.gif http://www.businessspectator.com.au/.../delicious.gif
Skol here is another bargain for u, u believe oil is going to crash. put your money where your mouth is :rolleyes:
Ryanair warns of loss next year
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...226b_getty.jpg Ryanair will maintain "aggressive pricing" to lure passengers.
Ryanair has warned it could make an annual loss of up to 60 million euros (£47.4m) if oil prices stayed high and it continued cutting fares.
The budget carrier said net profits in the three months to the end of June had fallen by 85% to 21m euros - below analysts expectations.
And it added that it was yet to fully hedge the price it paid for oil.
Ryanair's downbeat predictions saw its shares fall 15% while British Airways slipped back 4.7% and Easyjet lost 10%.
Oil issues
The soaring price of jet fuel, combined with customers cutting back on flying, has seen many airlines struggle.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif The outlook for the remainder of the fiscal year, which is entirely dependent on fares and fuel prices, remains poor http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif
Michael O'Leary
Chief executive, Ryanair
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...ashed_line.gif
Check Ryanair shares
Chief executive Michael O'Leary said that Ryanair expected to break even at best in the year to March 2009, although he warned the company could lose up to 60m euros.
This compares with a profit of 480.9m euros in the previous year.
Ryanair's fuel bill now represents almost 50% of its operating costs, compared with 36% last year.
Oil hit $147 a barrel earlier this month - though recently it has fallen back to close to $130.
The airline said that the recent fall in prices had been used to hedge 90% of its fuel needs for September at $129 per barrel and 80% for the third quarter at $124 per barrel.
However it was still liable for the full cost of oil in the fourth quarter.
'Poor outlook'
Full fares were likely to fall by 5% as it battled for customers amid plunging confidence, it added.
"The outlook for the remainder of the fiscal year, which is entirely dependent on fares and fuel prices, remains poor," Mr O'Leary said.
He said it would look to maintain "aggressive pricing" in order to maintain high plane usage and would avoid fuel surcharges. Earlier this month, Ryanair said it would cut about 250 flights from Stansted this winter as it tries to offset the increased oil prices. And its rival Easyjet has said that it will cut flights over the winter to offset a challenging economic climate and the high fuel prices that have dented profit growth.
Hi Shrewd,
Yes I deliberately chose AMR's ticker name as my username, I picked up the name while playing a stockmarket game (Wall$treet raider). I made a Buffett-like fortune by acquiring AMR after the US declared war on Iran and detonated a warhead in Tehran, and then selling out after the US flooded the world with cheap oil in the aftermath.
But yes, airlines are a **** investment in RL. As an industry they lose money half the time. It doesn't mean you can't take advantage of uptrends in the share price though and then dump them quickly.
Dear Readers,
Tricha an oil bull, with 100% invested in oil and no cash described me as having 'serious rocks in my head' (on or about 16 July) on this forum for suggesting airlines as an investment. Consequently he decided to start this thread to humiliate me for making such an idiotic suggestion .I never said you had to own them forever.
Here are the relative performance of Trichas liquid gold oil shares he says he owns vs. 3 airline shares from 16/7 to 28/7.
Trichas oil shares:
AZA -13%
COE -4.5%
NZO -12.6%
OEL -10.6%
3 Airline Shares
QAN +8.2%
AIR +13.6%
VBA +15%
Readers can decide for themselves which has been the better investment and with the oil price imploding my guess is Tricha's fortunes won't be turning around any time soon.
Might be time for a mayday call to Matt (Nostradamus) Simmons to re-schedule armageddon
Hmm, fuel = a bad day out for Skols airlines, the penny has dropped.
Soaring fuel bill hits BA profits
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...8_ba226bbc.jpg BA's fuel bill is about £8m per day
British Airways has blamed a doubling of fuel costs for a sharp profits fall, saying the airline industry faced the "worst trading environment ever".
The carrier made pre-tax profit of £37m ($73.3m) in the three months to the end of June compared with £298m a year earlier - an 88% drop.
It also said it would cut 3% of flights this winter to reduce overheads.
Earlier this week BA announced that it was in merger talks with Spanish airline Iberia.
'Unprecedented' prices
BA said its fuel bill was expected to be £3bn in the year to the end of March - the equivalent of £8m per day.
However, it insisted it was "well prepared" with a focus on controlling costs.
"We are in the worst trading environment the industry has ever faced," said BA chief executive Willie Walsh.
"The combination of unprecedented oil prices, economic slowdown and weaker consumer confidence has led to substantially lower first quarter profits."
He added that the airline had managed to hedge some of its fuel costs in the quarter which "mitigated the impact" of rising bills, although they still rose by 49%.
The reduction in flights over winter would not "compromise its network", BA said.
The airline added that the proposed merger with Iberia would take months to finalise.
The deal is being seen as an attractive proposition for BA as it would allow it to reduce costs.
Terminal Five
The results are the first full quarter to include operations at Heathrow Airport's Terminal Five - used exclusively by BA.
BA said that more than six million passengers had gone through the terminal since 27 March and that it was going "from strength to strength". When Terminal Five opened, problems with its operations led to hundreds of flights being cancelled and the loss of thousands of bags. The embarrassment resulted in some executives leaving both BA and the Heathrow operator, BAA.
Might be bad in Europe tricha but OK here. Some of these aircraft are struggling to get off the ground they're so full. I know, I've seen it. Kiwis and Ockers are not keen to give up the travel despite the financial sky falling in.
Virgin Blue share price graph-
(still a virgin performance wise)...
http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/
AIR--->
performance----> "Fresh Air" New Zealand
http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/
Quantas QAN- Share price graphhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/
Skol, yourve gone and bumped your head... check these charts out... QAN is not far off 10 year lows... Virgin 'performance' only just recently bounced off all time lows... Hey Skol, add my two picks to your list...
EPR at 5.3cents... and CUE at 21cents...
If I was locked in and had to buy a bunch of airlines, I chop my arm off to break a contract...
You see buddy... In ten years I'd buy a robotic arm... compare that to having airlines and no flash arm just the one ive already got....
Id go out in a blaze of glory with a chainsaw.... hahaha....
:cool:
.^sc
trackers,
thats how against Airlines I am...
There aint no better way to lose money as an investor....
NZ finance companies are 'King Kong' compared to airlines...
For real....
:cool:
.^sc
Airlines are for TRADERS, not INVESTORS. They are good stocks for TAs to take money off Mary-Holm "Buy and Hold" types. MoSteph over on the NZX forum grabbed a quick 20% off AIR recently, and AIR was a 2 bagger over the last 3 years (1.3->3.3). Not quite up there with NZO but it still beats the others.
skol,
over the last five years my stocks have gone up every year including this year..
over the last five years those airline stocks and most others have trended down... your small window of performance over the last two weeks is laughable....
The biggest weightings on my portfolio are CUE and LMP/LMPO...
only holding around 10% on CTP/CTPOA...
I just sold AKK before at 21cents...
I could not be happier this year apart from Central, and selling a few more LMPO's at the top...
thanks for clearing that up skol...
Id rather stroll with one arm at my side than holding airline stocks... I make no bones about that....
catch you round....
later..
:cool:
.^sc
AMR you are so right. Airlines are for traders :D...... I wouldnt touch them with a forty foot pole but hey MoSteph (and others) are very technical traders and know what they are doing.:cool:
I was going to say "shrewd" traders but thought I would cop the wrath of the Crude Shrewd. ;);)
U R on to it Skol, get that oil price down :) The above from Oiler, does this mean u r a trader ? Skol, as from memory u have implied u do not hold airline shares at the moment.
Fuel costs hit Air France profits
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ceplane_af.jpg Air France-KLM has increased fares to counter rising costs
Rising fuel prices and slowing economic growth have hit quarterly profits at airline Air France-KLM.
Net profits for the April to June period were down nearly 60% from a year ago to 168m euros ($261m; £133m).
Passenger numbers rose 3.7% in the quarter compared with a year earlier, even though the airline raised fares to counter higher costs.
Many airlines are cutting routes and increasing fares, and predict tougher times ahead for the industry.
Last week, British Airways said the airline faced the "worst trading environment ever," as it reported a 88% fall in pre-tax quarterly profit for the three months to June. And budget carrier Ryanair recently warned it could see an annual loss of up to 60m euros. Last month, Air France said it was in talks about a possible joint-venture with French utility firm Veolia to operate several rail services, a move that analysts say could help the airline reduce costs.
Yep, aviation stocks are a bummer all right, only up 169% in a week.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...07/post-7.html
Here's one for you skol.
May 16 - Ethiopian Scores High in its Nine Months Performance
Ethiopian Airlines recorded strong results in many of its performance parameters during the nine months of the fiscal year 2007/08. Based on the preliminary reports, Ethiopian generated 6.6 billion birr operating revenue during the nine months which is 29% up from last year. A net profit of 484 million birr is recorded for this period which is appreciably higher than the same period last year. Ethiopian transported 1.9 million passengers, a 19% increase as compared to the previous year. “This performance was achieved as a result of the hard work and dedication of Ethiopian employees, astute leadership of the management team, the strong support from the Airline’s customers and other stakeholders,” said Ato Girma Wake, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Ethiopian.
The substantial improvements in revenue and traffic growth were attributed mainly due to the apparent capacity growth in terms of increased frequency, introduction of new flights on the international sector, from cargo revenue as well as other service categories.
The total operating expenses during the nine months increased by 21%. Fuel cost representing the lion’s share was followed by aircraft/engine lease and payroll expenses. The CEO, Ato Girma Wake noted, "Fuel price remains of concern to the industry as a whole and Ethiopian believes that costs will continue to escalate into the next quarter given the present trend in price of fuel."
The major activities during the nine months of the budget year included:
Leasing one B757-200 passenger aircraft
Launching service to Abu Dhabi and Zanzibar
Implementation of Codeshare agreement with Gulf Air and Air One
Signing an agreement with Boeing to acquire two MD-11 Freighter aircraft
Leasing two B747-200 freighters pending the delivery of the MD-11s
Entering into partnership with Lufthansa on Frequent Flyer Programme
Installing B737-NG Simulator
Despite the escalating fuel price and stiff competition, Ethiopian scored the highest revenue and profit ever. All stakeholders of the airline contributed to this success and its employees were at the frontline. Ethiopian management takes this opportunity to express its appreciation to all the stakeholders.
About Ethiopian
Ethiopian Airlines, www.ethiopianairlines.com, one of the largest and fastest growing airlines in Africa made its maiden flight to Cairo in 1946. The airline currently serves 50 destinations around the globe, 30 of which are in Africa. The addition of services to Kuwait effective June 02, 2008 will bring the total number of the Airline’s international destinations to 51.
Ethiopian will be the first carrier to operate the Dreamliner-B787 in Africa, the Middle East and Europe.
In 2006 and 2007 Ethiopian has earned three different awards respectively from the African Aviation Journal, the African Times/USA, and the Government of Ghana for its best performance in the commercial air transport industry.
PR & Publication
May 16, 2008
Search :
ShebaMiles LOGIN
Member Number:
Password:
* Get password [members]
* New registration
* Forgot password?
* Branch office login
MORE @ ETHIOPIAN
* Surplus Sales
* FAQ
* ETHIOPIAN Destinations
* Send Your Comments
* Contact Information
Cathay goes from profit to loss
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...y_afp_226b.jpg Cathay is not alone in having to deal with the impact of surging fuel prices
Hong Kong-based airline Cathay Pacific has reported a half-year loss as a result of higher fuel costs.
The carrier reported a net loss of 663m Hong Kong dollars ($84.95m; £43.4m) in the six months to June, compared with a profit of $HK2.58bn a year earlier.
"Global aviation is making a painful adjustment to the new reality of $100+ oil" said chairman Christopher Pratt.
Many carriers have been hit by rising fuel prices and have reacted by cutting routes and raising fares.
On Tuesday, Spanish airline Iberia reported a half-year loss and Air France-KLM said that second-quarter profits had fallen by 60%. Cathay Pacific said it was cutting costs where it could but that there was a limit to how much could be saved before quality and its brand were compromised. A report by the International Air Travel Association (IATA) issued on Monday said that the situation for the airline industry would get "a lot worse", and that the sector could see losses of $6.1bn (£3bn) this year.
Update on trichas get-poor-quick Texas Tea shares. Since 16/7.
AZA -18.4%
COE -7%
NZO -9%
OEL -12%
Airline shares.
AIR +15.5%
QAN +7%
VBA +26%
Oil fell overnight to $117.11
A bit like Phaedrus likes to bag, but does not disclose, gutless really.
Yes I do.
ALL, PDN, CRJ, PPX, CFU, NAM
I'm just bagging you because you started the thread and said I had seriously large rocks in my head for making the suggestion that in the case of a reversal in the oil price airlines might be a way of making a dollar.
Here's a contrarian bet-Japan. Will recover before DJIA does. I have some dosh in the BT Japan fund.
Come on Skol, I asked u to start this thread, u r welcome to it.
Unless oil goes down to $90 a barrell, my way of thinking is they are both basket cases.
If history has anything to do with things, China owe Japan a punch or two ;), so expect no favours. Its great to see u have come out of the closet Skol :)
Japan Economy Probably Shrank as Recession Looms (Update1)
By Jason Clenfield
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?p...d=ivbNvi2u.GRM
http://images.bloomberg.com/r06/news...ge_details.gif
Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Japan's economy probably contracted last quarter, bringing the country to the brink of its first recession in six years, as exports fell and consumers spent less.
Gross domestic product shrank an annualized 2.3 percent in the three months ended June 30, according to the median estimate of 25 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The Cabinet Office will release the report on Aug. 13 at 8:50 a.m. in Tokyo.
Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda, who last week replaced his economic ministers in a bid to boost his popularity, is planning relief measures to help companies and consumers cope with record energy costs. Toyota Motor Corp. yesterday reported the biggest drop in earnings in five years as U.S. sales slumped.
``What you're going to see is a long, slow, modestly painful recession,'' said Robert Feldman, head of economic research at Morgan Stanley in Tokyo. ``It's going to fall heavily on both workers and stock holders who are suffering lower returns as profits come down.''
Exports probably fell 2.4 percent last quarter, robbing Japan of the engine that drove growth over the past six years, according to economists surveyed. Shipments abroad increased every quarter except one since the most recent recession in 2001.
The economy probably shrank 0.6 percent from the first quarter, when it grew 1 percent, about twice the average pace of the expansion that began in 2002. Net exports -- the difference between exports and imports -- subtracted 0.1 percentage point from growth, economists said.
Toyota Cuts Forecast
Toyota, Japan's biggest company, yesterday cut its sales forecast for the year ending March 2009 by 3.5 percent to 8.7 million vehicles. Since June, Toyota has fired 800 workers at a Kyushu-based subsidiary, where the company is cutting production of sport-utility vehicles and Lexus sedans bound for the U.S.
``The Toyota story is totally consistent with the macro data,'' said Kiichi Murashima, chief economist at Nikko Citigroup Ltd. in Tokyo. ``Companies have been quick to get rid of workers in response to slowdowns in some sectors.''
The unemployment rate jumped to 4.1 percent in June from 3.8 percent three months earlier. Wage growth is also slowing.
Summer bonuses at the country's biggest companies, which tend to pay more than their smaller counterparts, dropped this year for the first time since 2002, according to a survey by the Keidanren business lobby.
Bank of Japan
Domestic demand, which includes company and consumer spending, probably accounted for 0.5 percentage point of the economy's quarter-on-quarter contraction. The figures for household spending will probably exaggerate the decline from the first quarter, when the leap year gave consumers an extra shopping day in February, economists said.
The government yesterday said the economy is ``weakening'' for the first time since 2001. The worsening economy and the fastest inflation in a decade will compel the Bank of Japan to keep its benchmark interest rate at 0.5 percent for the rest of the year at least, according to economists surveyed last month.
Still, analysts say the current slowdown is unlikely to be as severe as past recessions because the corporate sector is better able to handle higher costs and weakening U.S. demand. Businesses have trimmed excess debt, workers and capacity, Economic and Fiscal Policy Minister Kaoru Yosano said yesterday.
``Most of the measures suggest that things aren't as good as they were 12 months ago, but it's nothing like 2001, 1998, or 1993,'' said Richard Jerram, chief Japan economist at Macquarie Securities Ltd. in Tokyo.
Capital Investment
Companies plan to increase capital investment by 4.1 percent in the year ending March, according to a survey released this week by the Tokyo-based Development Bank of Japan. While that's slower than last fiscal year's 7.7 percent, it's better than the 10 percent decline recorded during the 2001 recession.
The Bank of Japan's most recent business survey showed that labor demand is close to a 16-year high. The jobs-to-applicants ratio was at 0.91 in June, meaning almost every person who wants a job can get one. During the previous recession seven years ago, there were two applicants competing for every position.
``When you say recession, it triggers images of 1998 or 1993,'' Jerram said. ``You're having a period of sub-par growth, but it's not the sort of downturn we saw three times during the previous 15 years.''
To contact the reporter on this story: Jason Clenfield in Tokyo at jclenfield@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: August 8, 2008 00:03 EDT
tricha, let me quote you.
"Unless oil goes down to $90 a barrel they're both basket cases".
I think you're onto it, and here's me thinking you're a bit dim for hanging on to those death defying oil shares.
Japan's been in the doldrums for years and hasn't got anywhere near the problem the rest of the world's facing with massive personal debt, property slumps, bankruptcies, mortgage defaults, etc. It's not the beginning of the end of the recession in the West, its not even the end of the beginning.
Oil will continue it's nosedive because the demand destruction will be more or less permanent. Yen and Japanese market will recover first.
Japan still the world's second biggest economy.
Actually I don't own any airlines, probably should do with POO the way it is.
I remember very vividly watching the TV in LA during the Congressional hearings into the Enron collapse. Jeffery Skilling and Ken Lay implored the staff to load up on shares even as those scumbags unloaded millions of dollars of theirs. ($60m in the case of Skilling I believe). So when Enron collapsed employees not only lost their jobs they lost their savings as well.
Since I work in the airline industry I don't own shares in the airlines. (Unless I come across some real good inside info)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOdWxf1tRmI
lol, Qantas officials admitted the delay was to refuel with the POO a $1 cheaper !
QANTAS grounds jet
More trouble for QANTAS: the airline has grounded a jet in Sydney because of technical problems
9 August 2008
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/photos/busi...tas-plane2.jpg
More trouble for QANTAS today: the airline has grounded a jet in Sydney because of technical problems.
The San Francisco-bound flight was due to leave just before 2pm but now passengers have to wait until 9 o'clock tonight to fly out.
me old mate skol...
I will explain this further on the peak oil thread...
as it is predominately an oil issue...
Ive said my piece on airlines...
trading stocks---> not investing stocks...
In terms of finding value in airlines---> there is none...
:cool:
.^sc
Hmm when did u buy these, end of June 2008 ? or 2007
NAMNAMOI COTTON CO-OPERATIVE LIMITED CCU
http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/
we'll try this one. Would it rely on high oil prices, hmm :rolleyes:
CFUCERAMIC FUEL CELLS LIMITED FPOhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/ Line Type LineCandlestickOHLCPercent Period 1 Month2 Months3 Months6 Months1 Year2 Years5 Years10 Years
tell me bought 1st week July 2008 :confused:
PPXPaperlinx Limited FPOhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../2y/line/30/0/ Line Type LineCandlestickOHLCPercent Period 1 Month2 Months3 Months6 Months1 Year2 Years5 Years10 Years
Moving Average 1 5 day10 day30 day60 day90 day120 dayNone
Moving Average 2 10 day30 day60 day90 day120 day180 dayNone
Hmm I hope u did not buy them to long ago :eek:
CRJCOPPER RANGE LIMITED FPOhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../2y/line/30/0/
If u bought this ones 2004 -2005 , well done :)
Hmm, Uranium needs expensive oil and gas to be a roaring success :rolleyes:
PDNPaladin Resources Limited FPOhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../5y/line/30/0/ Line Type LineCandlestickOHLCPercent Period 1 Month2 Months3 Months6 Months1 Year2 Years5 Years10 Years
Moving Average 1 5 day10 day30 day60 day90 day120 dayNone
Arr, the gambler in u, a contrarian bet, getting a beating at the moment though. :rolleyes:
ALLAristocrat Leisure Limited FPOhttp://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../5y/line/30/0/ Line Type LineCandlestickOHLCPercent Period 1 Month2 Months3 Months6 Months1 Year2 Years5 Years10 Years
Moving Average 1 5 day10 day30 day60 day90 day120 dayNone
No it hasn't been all plain sailing, but PDN an oil play. Sold most but still have a few.
PPX recovering, so far so good.
NAM used be about 10% commodity stock that missed out.
Bought ALL recently.
CFU-hoping to cash in on the 'green' craze but hasn't worked out-yet.
CRJ-speculation-has acreage adjacent to Olympic Dam.
From 16/7.
QAN + 10.4%
AIR + 14.5%
VBA + 46%
I don't like to rub it in but if you check the oil stocks I think you'll find there's been a bit of "acceptance", if I can use that word setting in today.
QAN down .12 today, maybe to do with continuing maintenance problems. A lot of chat on the internet about QF outsourcing maintenance offshore and the quality of the work. Who knows, but you often get what you pay for.
This is what happened in Kuala Lumpur when maintenance guys (not pilots) taxiied the aircraft without hydraulics.
www.1001crash.com/latest/2001/SAA_B747_im1.jpg
This was a worse one though. Brand new too.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...4Ncwx/610x.jpg
Achtung tricha,
I've got a confession to make. I broke my golden rule and bought a few VBA the other day. I couldn't resist the temptation, I just cracked under the pressure of watching it go up every day.
Since 16/7 up 67%.
UP 26% in one day could go to to $1.25 / 30 with out much trouble don't listen to WINGERS..
Wow. Airline shares especially looking pretty similar to those CFD mini-HSI fututres which I play with on odd occasions. I will definitely be adding them onto my watchlist, they're like miners but with an inverse correlation to oil prices and better suited for TAs. The charts support your buying position Skol, gave a pretty decent buy signal back at 55c.
http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/picture...5&pictureid=40
Of special bullishness is the OBV plot, which is now signalling incredibly strong buying pressure. As for myself I will be buying on the next dip, or maybe air new zealand.
BRICKS be nimble, BRICKS be quick and read of the annual and dumped half of the holding
Will see how it will pan out but you had to be , QUICK..
I'm still hanging in there,
POO now $110.
Seems like nothing will stop the downtrend, war, hurricane, and dollar rising.
Virgin Blue struggling to stay in the black
Steve Creedy | August 20, 2008
VIRGIN Blue's share price collapsed yesterday after the airline reported a 55 per cent fall in annual profit and could not guarantee investors that it would remain profitable this year.
The company revealed a thin $5 million second-half profit, warned the year ahead would be the most challenging in the airline's history and held out little hope for any growth in yield.
It added to the uncertain outlook by failing to declare a dividend, a move that helped drive the share price down 28 per cent, or 32c, to 84c.
The stock might take another hit on Friday when Toll Holdings shareholders take ownership of their shares in the airline.
Virgin's 2007-08 net profit fell to $97.2 million from $216 million in 2006-07, as the airline grappled with high fuel prices and a surge in capacity that outstripped demand.
The result included one-off after-tax charges of $42.8 million for new projects such as the launch of its VAustralia international service and domestic flights in New Zealand, as well as the introduction of new Embraer aircraft and new product.
The profit was at the high end of Virgin's guidance, and better than analysts' expectations, but not enough to prompt the airline to pay a dividend.
Underlying net profit fell 36.5 per cent to $140.5 million and revenue per available seat kilometre was almost flat.
JPMorgan analyst Matt Crowe said the airline's outlook was grimmer than anticipated.
"Their statement that it would be a challenge to be profitable and they don't expect yields to increase at all is pretty grim," he said.
Mr Crowe said the airline's share price had taken off in the lead-up to the result without any obvious reason but it was now back to a "reasonable spot", given current fuel prices.
But he noted the illiquid nature of the stock made it hard to make sense of day-to-day trades.
That would change on Friday when ownership of most of Toll's 62.7 per cent stake in the company transferred to shareholders as part of an in specie dividend.
Mr Crowe predicted many Toll shareholders would probably want to sell the stock, although others were likely to pick it up if prices tanked.
"You've just got a lot people who probably don't want to hold that sort of company," he said.
"They've bought Toll for a growth company, not an airline, and when they get the airline they'll probably part with it."
Shaw Stockbroking analyst Brent Mitchell was also unsurprised by the result.
"With the outlook, really it's self-evident that fuel prices, capacity and yield are going to be key factors going forward and they're difficult to predict in current circumstances," he said.
Mr Mitchell said takeover speculation could have been behind the ramp-up in Virgin's share price.
"Whether there was speculation on a takeover or not, I'm not too sure, but I wouldn't expect anything corporate to happen in the current environment ... for at least another one or two years," he said.
"You've got the Virgin Group sitting there and I don't think they've got the wherewithal to do anything at the moment."
Earlier, Virgin chief executive Brett Godfrey told reporters that the airline's domestic market had been particularly challenging in the second half and "fuel inputs played havoc with the cost base".
"During the second half to June, fuel, and jet fuel in particular, broke more records than the Australian swimming team," he said.
Mr Godfrey said Virgin Blue and Pacific Blue were expected to remain profitable this financial year if current market conditions and fuel prices held, but VAustralia would lose $55-$65 million.
Most of this would be pre-operational costs, but the airline would lose about $18 million because the aircraft would be under-utilised for the first year.
He warned that the airline expected tough conditions for up to three years but noted that Virgin had implemented a range of measures in recent months to mitigate the impact of increase fuel costs.
These included a $5 increase in average ticket prices across more than half its domestic routes, a 12 per cent cut in capacity growth, the redeployment of aircraft to international operations and a $50 million cost-cutting program.
tricha,
Yes, that was bit unexpected.
However since 16/7
AIR +13.6%
QAN +7.9%
VBA -3%
Still much better than AZA COE NZO OEL.
BRICKS is back in with an increased holding this morning to big a drop the curve will rise again and the planes will be doing there best don't forget the large increase in REVENUE
of cash MONEY..
CapEx for airlines are enormous and must be maintained during tough economic times.Competition? It doesnt get any tougher in any industry.Forget price, where is your reasoning?
hahahaaha... unexpected... VBA down 29%... then down 29% again the very next day... now down 10% today...its about to hit fresh lows...Quote:
tricha,
Yes, that was bit unexpected.
However since 16/7
AIR +13.6%
QAN +7.9%
VBA -3%
Still much better than AZA COE NZO OEL.
As I said Skol, add My CUE and EPR To that list Skol....
this is a no contest over the medium/longer term...
:cool:
.^sc
Skol,
Who honestly knows or can tell with these markets and global conditions.
War starts, War finishing or pausing, Russia and Georgia, who knows where everything is going, the world is basically and unpredictable place, or for those who keep trying to predict it keeps getting proved alternatively, or so it seems~!
ps: this is not a ramp, or down ramp of oil~!
Hi Skol
Hmm what can I say, at least u had the guts to disclose and made a mistake or 10, like most of us , except for the Mighty One who has never lost a trade ;)
I wonder what the T\A experts would say about this one, but then again they will only be telling history.
http://www.stocknessmonster.com/images/australia.gif http://www.stocknessmonster.com/char.../1y/line/30/0/ Line Type LineCandlestickOHLCPercent Period 1 Month2 Months3 Months6 Months1 Year2 Years5 Years10 Years
Moving Average 1 5 day10 day30 day60 day90 day120 dayNone
Moving Average 2 10 day30 day60 day90 day120 day180 dayNone
I hear from a couple of reasonably reputable sources that Air New Zealand is doing due diligence on Virgin Blue. At it's current share price it might be a cheap way of AIR (AIZ-ASX) buying into the Aus domestic market, which is NZ's biggest tourist market.
However, given the Ansett debacle I'm sure Air NZ would be treading very cautiously!
You don't tell us what stock this is Tricha, which makes things a little difficult, but my guess is that it is VBA. Am I right?
All this year, VBA was in a steep (and accelerating) downtrend. There was a confirmed trendline in place, and all price action was below a 30 day Moving average. On 9/7/08, VBA gapped up (this is Bullish) breaking the confirmed trendline and giving a Buy signal. It is considered a little risky to act on the basis of a single signal in isolation, but this "Buy" signal was confirmed the very same day when VBA broke above the 30 day moving average that had held good all this year. These signals gave an entry into VBA at 55 cents.
VBA went into a strong, steep uptrend until it gapped down (this is Bearish) on 19/8/08 breaking below both the established trendline and the 30 day moving average. This well confirmed "Sell" signal gave an exit at 84 cents.
http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/VBA824.gif
Of course not all trades are so spectacularly successful, but this is a nice illustration of how the application of even the most basic TA can assist in the timing of buying and selling stocks.
Not sure about this, and this may be factored in already to the large fall in VBA over the past few days, over 600 million of VBA shares are about to hit the market starting tomorrow from the TOL distribution.
With oil falling $6 on the weekend, I suspect VBA will bounce a little on Monday.
WELL Skol, looks like u failed to do your homework, I know the feeling, I did that with Perilya :(, Soulmans on to it though.
More blues in store for Virgin Blue
http://images.theage.com.au/2008/08/...RGIN-470x0.jpg Virgin Blue's share price faces reverse thrust. Photo: Jim Rice
- Matt O'Sullivan
- August 25, 2008
VIRGIN BLUE faces downward pressure on its share price for weeks as institutional investors who gained a slice of the airline courtesy of Toll Holdings wait for the chance to sell.
The airline's stock tumbled almost 19% to close near an all- time low on Friday, the first day in which Toll Holdings' shareholders could trade the Virgin stock they received after the transport company last month decided to offload most of its 62.7% stake in the carrier.
"Our preference would be not to hold them, but I'm not sure we are going to sell them at 49¢," Argo Investment managing director Rob Patterson said of Virgin shares his company gained via its stake in Toll. "We just have to wait and see."
Macquarie Equities has warned that many Toll shareholders are unlikely to be long-term holders in airlines, suggesting some will dump their Virgin shares.
Mr Patterson agreed that institutional shareholders were unlikely to be "enthusiastic" about holding Virgin shares because the airline sector was highly volatile.
He said there just "so many variables", such as volatile oil prices and slowing passenger growth.
"I just don't think it's what you would call a core holding in an institutional portfolio," he said.
But he doubted fund managers would be selling Virgin — in which billionaire Richard Branson has a 25.5% stake — while it was trading at near all-time lows.
Virgin last week announced a 55% fall in full-year profit to $98 million, due mainly to fuel prices more than doubling over the past year.
Merrill Lynch has forecast Virgin to post a $57 million bottom-line loss this financial year, due in part to the airline spending as much as $65 million on its long-haul carrier, V Australia. Goldman Sachs JBWere has estimated a loss of almost $39 million.
Meanwhile, Deustche Bank analyst Cameron McDonald said he believed it would take at least two weeks for Virgin's share register to stabilise.
Virgin shares lost 58% last week, closing down 11¢ at 48¢ on Friday.
http://www.virginblue.com.au
VBA new shares or old TOLL shares are now on the market some 650 approx million of them
which makes VBA a free standing company with all its washing hagging out with NO new surprises,, As stated above there is going to be a lot of adjustments for the next two weeks
so when it calms down VBA will be in a better state but you mite miss a bargain @ these
prices so dive in..
As to the comments about AIR buying VBA cant see it happening as where would the money come from cant say the GOV because they have just been stretched buying the KIWI RAILWAYS so if you can answer that question it would solve the PUZZEL..
VBA is not cheap. Its business is fundamentally down. With 1b CapEx spent this year and average capital costs of 540m its return on invested capital was -9.18%. Its owner earnings this year came in at -200m. By all means Bricks "dive in" but there are no gold medals here.
Rather a dull statement as VBA is in a massive change in life and new capital construction
and we don't really know who owns what or the top twenty shareholders as stated it will take a couple of weeks for this to settle, but looking at the turnover which is very large
some one is buying up big to get a toe in who it is so that's the big question..
VBA is not BROKE and is bigger than AIR but its not a mature airline only been around a few
years but growing but at these current prices it is a good time to "dive in" but you have to have money not excuses like h2so4 not to got NO MONEY,, have a go sometimes it pays OFF..
At the time of Ansett's collapse, weren't there rumours floating around that AirNZ had approached VBA but got rebuffed?
Air New Zealand profit falls by a quarter
Quote:
Air New Zealand has no further plans to cut capacity on long haul flights despite crippling fuel prices which imposed an extra $300 million cosdt over the past year.
The airline posted a 24 per cent drop in profit for the year to June 30, with normalised earnings dropping to $197 million.
This was despite a 9.1 per cent boost in operating revenue, up $388m to $4.667 billion for the year.
Air New Zealand has already replaced Boeing 747s with smaller Boeing 777s on some services to London.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe said the network was still under review but no further capacity cuts were planned "at this stage."
By the end of the year one, possibly two fuel hungry 747s could be parked up on the tarmac.
Fyfe warned of a tough year ahead.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/...ectid=10529053
Not as VBA, just as Branson's private airline.
http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au/piweb/...r_3/ioc760.pdf
BRICKS did not say VBA was doing anything and its not burning cash as you state [what ever that means] ,, What was said its a new ball game about its capital construction now that TOLL walked away and it has not disclosed the top twenty shareholders which when known will have a large factor in its new DIRECTION>>
And I did not say VBA was "BROKE". Burning cash simply means spending more than you earn."Turn around","new direction" whatever wait till it happens. But if you are all excited by all means jump in just make sure you are wearing goggles because the water aint that clear.
"Whats really happening"?????????
Rather than my "silly statements" why dont you check out VBA's 08 cashflow statements money in, money out, simple stuff. Net cash flow in $293m. Net cash flow out $995m. Big problem here.
I'm not Einstein but I do know enough to spot weak earnings and problems from a mile away.
Correct I am not a buyer.
Airlines are OUT
cheers
hes' got you there H2so4
Most airlines with a bit of capital are quick off the mark when it comes to cost cutting when it becomes necessary, but the most crucial problem is the POO and IMHO that will be solved shortly.
There was a mention in a UK paper the other day that some hedge funds have sustained some huge losses trading the POO and the EUR/USD.
Since 16/7 QAN up 17%.
If I owned a small business that required oil to provide a service or manufacture a product I would pass those increasing costs on to the consumer,but if I owned a business that required capital to cut costs, like you say, I would sell it. I think the problems are deeper than POO. But time will tell.
I still HOPE you make lots of money with your investment in airlines.
cheers
On CNBC, Chief Investment Officer of a broking firm says oil will fall, dollar will rise and they are buying companies sensitive to that like Boeing and Federal Express.
And right now oil down $1.60.
Zoom Airlines suspend all flights
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...edplane226.jpg One of the grounded planes was due to leave Glasgow on Thursday.
Transatlantic budget carrier Zoom Airlines has suspended all flights and is applying to go into administration.
Thousands of passengers due to fly with Zoom have been told to rebook with other carriers, and to contact credit or debit card issuers about refunds.
Earlier, two of the airline's jets were held at Glasgow and Cardiff airports.
UK-Canadian Zoom blamed its problems on the "horrendous" price of jet fuel - which had added $50m (£27.3m) to annual fuel bills - and the economic slowdown.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif This was supposed to be a holiday of a lifetime for my wife and I http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif
William Moonie
Would-be Zoom passenger
Passengers hit by Glasgow grounding
Zoom, which has flown since 2001, employs 450 staff in Canada and 260 staff in the UK.
It operated flights from London Gatwick, Glasgow, Manchester, Cardiff, Belfast, Cardiff as well as Paris and Rome.
And it flew to eight destinations in Canada, New York, San Diego, Fort Lauderdale and Bermuda.
'Desperately sorry'
"We are very, very sad and disappointed that we thought we could pull through this very difficult situation," Zoom's co-founder Hugh Boyle told BBC News.
"We had some financing in place, but sadly it didn't come quick enough to avert some of the creditors who came in today to seize one of the planes which resulted in a domino effect of the situation that we're faced with".
In a statement, Mr Boyle and his brother, John added they "deeply regretted" having to suspend all Zoom operations.
"It is a tragic day for our passengers and staff," they said.
"We are desperately sorry for the inconvenience and disappointment that this will cause passengers and those who have booked flights.
"We have done everything we can to support the airline and left no stone unturned to secure a re-financing package that would have kept our aircraft flying."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifWHAT SHOULD ZOOM AIRLINES' PASSENGERS DO?
Any Zoom flight you have booked will not be departing. If you still wish to travel, Zoom recommends contacting other carriers and lists several on its website
If your flight is part of a package holiday originating from the UK, you may be able to CAA's Air Travel Organiser's Licence scheme.
If you have paid for Zoom flight, contact your credit card or debit card issuer to see if they can refund some or all of your money
Source: Zoom Airlines
They added that hopes of securing a new investment package to ensure future operations had failed, meaning administration procedures had to begin.
Zoom said BA and Virgin Atlantic were offering "special" fares for passengers whose flights had been cancelled.
Trip jeopardy
The announcement came after one of its planes was detained at Glasgow Airport for non-payment of air traffic control charges.
Meanwhile passengers on a flight from Cardiff were told to get off their Zoom plane, which was then impounded.
One of the passengers due to fly from Glasgow to Vancouver said he had been told on Thursday morning that there was a "technical difficulty" with the aircraft, and that the plane would not leave until 11pm.
"Then at 7 o'clock the British airport authorities started telling us that Zoom Airlines had entered into administration and basically that we could go home," William Moonie told BBC News.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...t_quote_rb.gif They had based their business model on oil prices of about $70 or $80. When it topped $140, Zoom simply could not cope http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/...d_quote_rb.gif
Simon Calder
Travel editor, The Independent
"This was supposed to be a holiday of a lifetime for my wife and I. I've just retired from the fire service after 30 odd years and my wife is 50 this year.
"We were going to have a celebration holiday. We were supposed to go on a cruise to Alaska and supposed to go to the Rocky Mountains by train."
He added he was hopeful that, because his flight was part of a package holiday, he may be covered by the CAA's Air Travel Organiser's Licence (ATOL) scheme.
Cutting back
A number of other budget long-haul carriers have gone into administration in recent months including Hong Kong to London carrier Oasis and business class transatlantic firms Eos, Maxijet and Silverjet.
The rising cost of oil - which topped $147 a barrel in July - has led to aviation fuel bills soaring.
"They had based their business model on oil prices of about $70 or $80," said Simon Calder, travel editor of The Independent.
"Once it topped $140 they simply could not cope."
He added that "tens of thousands" of passengers were likely to suffer.
Airline analysts say that with consumers being more cost-conscious, many were cutting back on luxury spending such as travel. Are you due to travel on Zoom? Have you been affected by any issues raised in this story?
THE big question in Sydney is who is buying VBA at 30+ million a day turnover who are the
buyers of coarse every one saying MR B..
Ive bought into VBA over the last few days, averaging (50.5 cps), but don't think I've caused the major effect on turnover! :-)
Nice work guys, keep it up, refresh,refresh,refresh.:)