TD Ameritrade CLOSES down all NZ accounts

I have been a client of TD Ameritrade (online brokerage) for over 20 years (from the Datek days in 2001 to acquired by Charles Schwab in 2020).

Yesterday, they advised me that "Following an internal assessment of our international business, we have determined we will no longer open or maintain accounts in certain international jurisdictions. We are contacting you because your account is affiliated with at least one of these jurisdictions. We regret to inform you that we will no longer permit the opening or maintaining of accounts in New Zealand effective November 1, 2021."

Has New Zealand done something to upset the US IRS or other authorities, to the point that it's not worth the hassle now for US-based online brokers to have NZ clients?

I am a bit shocked to be honest.

Is it part of a general trend? Or is it only Charles Schwab and can anyone recommend a broker to trade shares on NYSE/NASDAQ as cheaply as Schwab? (it became free last year, prior to that it was US$6.95 per transaction, down from US$9.99 per transaction up to 2017).

I use Interactive. Brokers. Ok, but not as cheap as you describe.

I should contact TDAmeritrade as I would be interested to know if it affects Canadian client holders. Pre-covid I received a similar message from them regarding about NZ's FMA rule that if the brokerage firm trades options, that they "Must be licensed by the NZ FMA". The writing on the wall is clear and I knew eventually TDAmeritrade and many US brokerage firms will not accept that kind of non-sense by the NZ FMA. The issue being is FMA claims any foreign broker that serves to NZ clients will be doing so illegally, if they are not licensed by the FMA. Can you understand how moronic this sounds that a foreign country is telling your brokerage firm how you should conduct business with foreign clients? What legal capacity does the FMA have in US soil?

So it's quite simply clear, the vast majority of brokerage firms will not conform with the FMA's licensing scheme (as you know there are conditions for FMA licensing). I noticed the FMA website FAQ has been updated as their previous wording was clear that foreign brokers that do deal in derivatives, are serving NZ clients illegally if they are not licensed.

Could simply be a compliance issue that TDAmertrade is not willing to bother with and NZ being such a small market, it's far easier to close those clients. The idiocy about this is Charles Schwab is larger than any NZ/Australian bank and yet the NZ FMA is about trying to protect the NZ investor. None of the banks and brokers in NZ offer investment or cash depository protection while in the US, the FDIC insures up to $500K per account and with Charles Schwab, they are SIPC insured on balances up to $150M per account ; including foreign account holders.

Thanks for starting this thread Toukshare. I too have had this notice from TDA. That's four accounts including other family members.
After having such a powerful website and free trading, it's hard to identify a suitable local replacement. Interactive Brokers is on my short list, though their monthly fee is a little off putting.
eg NVDA took an ER dip this morning, afterhours, and I was able to top up. You can't do that with the local brokerages, except for IB, as I understand it. Would be interested to hear which brokerage others in our situation have settled on?

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Originally Posted by Toukshare

Is it part of a general trend? Or is it only Charles Schwab.

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Oanda FX did the same to me a while back...
we're too tiny , they cant be bothered to deal with our jurisdiction.

So, I'm in the same position.
I have been with TD Ameritrade for years and they are now closing the account.
I sent a request to explain and they have just replied with a "sorry we can't revisit the decision" but no actual explanation.

I have seen Interactive Brokers discussed a lot. Does anyone have comments on this or any other alternative brokers?

I have just sent a note to the FMA asking...

"Will you please give TD Ameritrade any exemptions required to allow NZ residents to hold and operate a TDA account?"

perhaps if everyone asks the same question the FMA might consider it.

So i've been digging up some valuable information and I think this thread would be quite important for those in NZ looking to establish an overseas brokerage account.

In hoping to save some time (so others don't have to email the same question to these brokers), i'll share what information i've gathered.

https://www.stockbrokers.com/guides/...tional-brokers

As the review above states, there are very FEW US brokers that deal with international clients. Some of the larger brokers do offer services to overseas clients but not to New Zealand residents. So far:

- Fidelity only offers accounts to countries: United States, Guam, Puerto Rico, and US Virgin Islands.

- ETrade - only US customers

I may well be pretty much any other major N. American brokerage firm have following the same by not offering services to NZ customers due to NZ's nasty FMA.

Having only 3 brokers for NZ residents is pretty slim picking. So far I think IB would be the best pick having the greatest international exposure and a long term reputation in the early day trading days of dotcom.

Firstrade: i've been in contact with them and they will offer full options and margin accounts for NZ residents. However, this is for ONLY INDIVIDUAL accounts and not joint accounts. I do think this is an important distinction as US has estate taxes assessed on foreign account holders at a whopping 30% (if I recall correctly). So if the individual dies, and Firstrade is presented with a death certificate, then estate duties will kick in by the IRS. As far as account maintenance in paper compliance goes, the W8BEN forms are done online electronically by the account holder (no more hand writing them out and scan emailing them, the every 3 year update is done through their website for easier compliance).

Tradestation from what I read is UK based but follows along the lines of IB. I have not contacted them yet. Perhaps others may know?

SBQ - In my very quick first look I found this website
https://brokerchooser.com/broker-rev...s-alternatives

where it says "TradeStation Global is a combined product offered by Interactive Brokers (IB) and TradeStation for clients outside the EU/EEA."

and this NZ review is good reading

https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/interacti...html#pros_cons

Thanks everyone for contributing.

I am currently doing my own research as well, and am very tempted by Firstrade offering. It specifically says on a review website that New Zealand is included in their list of accepted foreign jurisdictions, with no US social security number of Tax ID required (just like what I had with TD Ameritrade every time they asked to fill in the W-8BEN).
I typically do a few trades every week (stock-only, long or short) and make very little on each trade, so $0 on stock and options trade is very attractive.
They seem to do the basics: stocks (long and short), ETFs and options, extended hour trading, NYSE and NASDAQ. They don't do futures, future options and forex, but neither do I.
So in other words, a basic platform that is very cheap.

I'm going to keep looking for a week or so, there is no rush. so if I find anything else I'll post it here.

Interactive Brokers keeps coming to the top if the lists I am finding, although I agree. it 's not free like TDA is. but it is cheap (especially compared to ASB)
Having said that, nothing is actually free, but I always put limit orders on and then I always get my price or better.

anyway, Investopedia has some great reviews of all these brokers
https://www.investopedia.com/interac...review-4587904
https://www.investopedia.com/firstrade-review-4587898
https://www.investopedia.com/tradest...review-4587927

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

and this NZ review is good reading

https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/interacti...html#pros_cons

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There are no real IB disadvantages as the complexities are there for good reasons ; so the investor is not mislead. The NZ offerings like Sharesies / Hatch / etc are not really transparent in terms of order flow and execution of trades. Furthermore being NZ based, FIF kicks in so easily where as in the US, brokers there are not bound by CRS and will not disclose client information to international tax depts around the world. It is not likely the US will join the CRS that most countries around the world have adopted. But like all tax matters, in NZ financial advisors and online reviews rarely mention the tax implication such as the US estate death tax on holdings by foreign residents.

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I have just sent a note to the FMA asking...

"Will you please give TD Ameritrade any exemptions required to allow NZ residents to hold and operate a TDA account?"

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This is a waste of time and the FMA has made no exceptions. The regulation for a foreign based broker to comply with the FMA would be quite extensive. I strongly suspect the 3 brokers mentioned above that do serve NZ clients, are doing so illegally in the eyes of the FMA. They have a large team of lawyers where America is a nation that does not typically bend over changing rules to suit regulations in another country. It's an issue of sovereignty so if the FMA were to really rob the financial freedom of NZ residents, they would have to do so through the IRD way; but the reality is IRD has limited powers in terms of forcing foreign banks to divulge client information.

Personally the writing is on the wall when the FMA came out and wealthy investors will structure their investments accordingly. Such as a guy like Larry Page (ex-Google founder) would have a well establish trust that will remain away from the hands of IRD, and being a US citizen, his trust's first tax obligation would be to the IRS (not to mention FACTA would still apply).

I would be interested to hear from others that are in the process of having their account closed and looking to open up an account with any of the 3 above.

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Originally Posted by SBQ

This is a waste of time and the FMA has made no exceptions.

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I agree but being an optimist I thought it can't hurt to point out that TDA complies with all US regulations and ask that the FMA recognise this.

Yes PLUS500 lifted margins on CFD/Forex 10% margin now needed from 1% ... all because I live in NZ !!!

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Originally Posted by JBmurc

Yes PLUS500 lifted margins on CFD/Forex 10% margin now needed from 1% ... all because I live in NZ !!!

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Perhaps another small sign that the "mine operators know that the methane levels in the mine are quietly but steadily increasing".

By the way folks, increases on margin requirements is ubiquitous; certainly not just occurring in NZ at the moment.


Globally, leveraged investment levels are now at ATH's, and alarmingly that goes for BOTH Instos and retail. Call/put ratios on US equities are also at unprecedented levels.

For me the now environment & quiet chatter feels & sounds very similar to 2007. But this time it's on steroids!

The US insto's in the know are still feasting while the party is raging, but they are also desperately trying to further bomb blast protect their Balance Sheets. One would think all the learnings from GFC would mean something. But alas not really, "smoke & mirrors" still prevail, and the same fundamental rules of sound economic & money management are being broken. The question that is quietly being asked amongst the "big boys" is "who is really holding the can"? I wouldn't be surprised at all if FMA reg's could just be a convenient excuse for an operator like TD A (read Charles Schwab) to close down NZ domiciled investor accounts. The accounts probably won't be profitable for them anyway, especially when considering the elevated risk of losing equity and with NZ being a tiny & far removed jurisdiction.

Minimising operating expenditure for traders is an understandable priority, so naturally there is a persistent drive to keep brokerage as low as possible.
However I would suggest, especially during these extraordinary times, an even higher priority should be the preservation of your capital. If & when the bubble bursts, and all the other traders (but not us of course!) are on the wrong side of the trade, massive unwinding of positions occurs. A HUGE deleveraging event.

Then, believe me, brokerage rates one is being charged is the absolute last thing on one's mind!

There has been mention of IB. IB has done very well over the last decade. IB has grown the business exponentially. IB is a now big global player.
But a good litmus test question to ask yourself, as with any brokerage/intermediary (esp' one based overseas) you may have a relationship with, is if IB (and/or their counterparties) "got into some difficulty" , can you afford to lose the funds (and if leveraged, even more!) you have invested?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

There has been mention of IB. IB has done very well over the last decade. IB has grown the business exponentially. IB is a now big global player.
But a good litmus test question to ask yourself, as with any brokerage/intermediary (esp' one based overseas) you may have a relationship with, is if IB (and their counter-parties) "got into some difficulty" , can you afford to lose the funds (and if leveraged, even more!) you have invested?

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from the moneyhub review linked above - will need to check the actual wording.

What happens to my funds if Interactive Brokers goes bust?

Client money is segregated in special bank or custody accounts, which are designated for the exclusive benefit of clients of Interactive Brokers. By properly segregating the client's assets, if no money or stock is borrowed and no futures positions are held by the client, then the client's assets are available to be returned to the client in the event of a default by or bankruptcy of the broker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTG

Perhaps another small sign that the "mine operators know that the methane levels in the mine are quietly but steadily increasing".

By the way folks, increases on margin requirements is ubiquitous; certainly not just occurring in NZ at the moment.


Globally, leveraged investment levels are now at ATH's, and alarmingly that goes for BOTH Instos and retail. Call/put ratios on US equities are also at unprecedented levels.

For me the now environment & quiet chatter feels & sounds very similar to 2007. But this time it's on steroids!

The US insto's in the know are still feasting while the party is raging, but they are also desperately trying to further bomb blast protect their Balance Sheets. One would think all the learnings from GFC would mean something. But alas not really, "smoke & mirrors" still prevail, and the same fundamental rules of sound economic & money management are being broken. The question that is quietly being asked amongst the "big boys" is "who is really holding the can"? I wouldn't be surprised at all if FMA reg's could just be a convenient excuse for an operator like TD A (read Charles Schwab) to close down NZ domiciled investor accounts. The accounts probably won't be profitable for them anyway, especially when considering the elevated risk of losing equity and with NZ being a tiny & far removed jurisdiction.

Minimising operating expenditure for traders is an understandable priority, so naturally there is a persistent drive to keep brokerage as low as possible.
However I would suggest, especially during these extraordinary times, an even higher priority should be the preservation of your capital. If & when the bubble bursts, and all the other traders (but not us of course!) are on the wrong side of the trade, massive unwinding of positions occurs. A HUGE deleveraging event.

Then, believe me, brokerage rates one is being charged is the absolute last thing on one's mind!

There has been mention of IB. IB has done very well over the last decade. IB has grown the business exponentially. IB is a now big global player.
But a good litmus test question to ask yourself, as with any brokerage/intermediary (esp' one based overseas) you may have a relationship with, is if IB (and their counter-parties) "got into some difficulty" , can you afford to lose the funds (and if leveraged, even more!) you have invested?

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There's a saying, "One's loss is another's gain" and that's what exactly has happened with IB. I saw this happen after 911 when brokerage firms had stopped opening new accounts by foreigners in the area of anti-$-laundering laws that fund terrorism. IB saw a niche market and simply had scooped up. All what TDAm / Schwab will do is turn these customers away to their competitors. Some of these clients are HNW individuals, otherwise how else would IB grow to much? I'm quite certain it was not in TDAm doing to close off NZ clients (as they are doing it for those living in other countries); this was a move by Charles Schwab where New Zealand was not on their list of countries they accepted.

The FMA has exasperated this problem. It's only a matter of time how long will the 3 brokerage firms I mentioned above will hold out? Remember, these brokers are ignoring the requests by the FMA by allowing NZ accounts holders access to their services (services specifically what the FMA does not want - in the area of options / derivatives and FX).

IB is the largest of the 3 by a long shot and it's important to stress that we are not talking about cryptocurrency exchanges that go bust and all the funds vaporise. The FMA is clear in scaring NZ residents not to hold funds abroad citing of this kind of risk - but fails to make the distinction that major brokerage firms like IB is not remotely in the same category as Binance crypto-exchange (which does not have a physical presence in any country, no HQ, and therefore no jurisdiction for a customer to make claims on). We are talking major brokerage firms operating in the US that have FDIC cash depository insurance + SIPC asset protection up to $150M per account in the case where the brokerage firm goes bust. This is simply protection that even all the banks in NZ don't even offer. So it's very clear the FMA has a different agenda by using scare mongering tactics without fully advising the 'real' situation. It's more to do with the fact that once the funds are abroad, there is little that the FMA and IRD can do about it when trying to investigate those account holders. Namely because the US is not part of the CRS.

In terms of whether investors lose money from day trading or not, that is more to do with 'investor beware'. If a person chooses to lose $ at the casino, that's their own fault. The well knowledged investor knows about capital preservation and if you follow along the likes of famous investors like Warren Buffet, there should be little risk of losing significant amounts of money. And speaking about Mr Buffet, he's a major fan of low cost index ETFs for the common investor. But what we have in NZ, is to use a NZ based brokerage account ; you will be paying high levels of management fees and admin costs and monthly fees... you name it, which all goes against Buffet's view that you will lose out on future compound returns (ie annual FIF & RWT).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

Client money is segregated in special bank or custody accounts, which are designated for the exclusive benefit of clients of Interactive Brokers. By properly segregating the client's assets, if no money or stock is borrowed and no futures positions are held by the client, then the client's assets are available to be returned to the client in the event of a default by or bankruptcy of the broker.

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Yes, in orderly market conditions, that'swhat's meant to happen. Just be aware though that during "unwinding of leverage" events, a lot of the boats fall with the tide. The system also gets totally clogged up with investigation, inquiry, finger-pointing, ducking & diving etc. Every man for himself really. Hence, even the non-leveraged folk can wait years to get some monies back.

The MF Global/Man Financial saga a decade ago is an example of what can & does go wrong.

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Originally Posted by FTG

Yes, in orderly market conditions, that'swhat's meant to happen. Just be aware though that during "unwinding of leverage" events, a lot of the boats fall with the tide. The system also gets totally clogged up with investigation, inquiry, finger-pointing, ducking & diving etc. Every man for himself really. Hence, even the non-leveraged folk can wait years to get some monies back.

The MF Global/Man Financial saga a decade ago is an example of what can & does go wrong.

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Again, I highly doubt this is the case. When you look at what happened during the GFC, how many of client $ from brokerage firms that went bust were lost? Lehman Bros? Wachovia Bank? If I recall correctly some 50 banking companies (mostly all small community banks) in America went bust but all those that had FDIC insurance protection did not have clients losing their $. You didn't see a bank run like we are seeing in Afghanistan. But in terms of brokerage firms, SIPC goes the extra coverage in protecting the assets (the share investments). We need to ask what do NZ brokerage firms offer in terms of investment protection in the case of broker insolvency? Keep in mind, with SIPC you are not insuring against market volatility so at the peak of the crisis, most of the stocks are at lowest levels, including managed funds, etc. If there's an element of fraud in a managed fund that causes the fund price to crash - well that's the fault of the investment firm and not the broker (a la investor beware). There are countless of cases in NZ where investors have lost their shirt (ie Hanover Finance) and though they may not be under a regulatory of what the FMA would like to say, the fact is there's a big difference between losing the investment by owning the shares (or bonds) of a company vs losing the assets held by the brokerage firm that goes bust. We can easily compare how many people have lost their money in crypto-exchanges around the word but that would be a horse of a different colour.

Ok I just received notice from TDAmeritrade that they will no longer serve Canadian residents. So it looks like i'm in the same boat as all the others - looking for another broker.

First post as new member. TDA has given me and three of my kids notice to cease trading etc. ShareSight support asked me to check with this notice applies to Australians as well and TDA Support advised that it does.
Their reply "Thank you for reaching out to TD Ameritrade, my name is Micah and I'll be happy to assist! Due to the country's rules and regulations, TD Ameritrade is prohibited from doing business inside the country of Australia as well"
Re a comment above about Crypto - a contributer to another site I subscribe to commented that they understood InteractiveBrokers would enable crypto trading be end of year. I don't know the source of their info but they are usually right.
I have opted for IB for myself. (not for my kids though, the complexity and the monthly subs involved don't warrant it for them) Looks like a painful transition. Easy enough to set up but takes around 5 days to free up the funds transferred. Then there's the ACATS transfer of shares for IB to action and their software is far more complex. It is not a seamless transition.
Finally, TDA support advised me a few months ago that Schwab hadn't yet bought TDA. They were in talks. I don't know that actual status as to whether the deal has yet gone through and haven't been notified of such as a member. However TDA have certainly been tightening up their processes, likely in anticipation. I'm going to miss their ease of use and great member support.
Glad to have stumbled upon this great community.

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Originally Posted by JBmurc

Yes PLUS500 lifted margins on CFD/Forex 10% margin now needed from 1% ... all because I live in NZ !!!

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I was looking into US online and brokers and came across this:
https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/plus500
You might want to read some of the reviews.

Trying to sign up with IBKR. You may notice there are lots of online referrals to get a credit on new accounts. However all of them redirects me to IB's portal in Australia - a geo-locker for those in NZ when trying to make the application and i'm quite certain IB Australia does not have the same credit for signing up as US residents do when going through their local servers. Anyways i've lodged an application and I am at the point 'Final Steps to Complete Application where it says :

"We've submitted your application for approval. Your account application is pending approval."


Under "Fund Your Account":


"We review funded account applications first. If for any reason your application does not get approved, we will send your money back."

So I am assuming the account just sits for weeks as experienced by others. To get a faster approval response, you have to initiate a transfer of funds before they look at establishing the account? The annoying thing with IB is you can't use their online chat for support help as this option is only available for exiting account holders. I assume emails have a rather slow response judging by the online complaints. Beware IB has among the worse customer support.

I intend to transfer accounts via ACATs but from what I read, this could be a sticky and stressful situation. Normally 5 - 7 working days but if there are any hitches or mistakes, then it could take over a month to sort out. I'm awaiting a reply from TDA in verifying the account details - specifically the account names and address and applicable TIN/SIN#. Having read that even the middle name that is presented in 1 account as a middle initial would stop the ACAT transfer and create delays. You have to remember that the integrity of the account information is only as good as the person that enters it into system. Much like how we have Direct Credit payments Bank to Bank where the user can simply mistype a wrong # and the $ goes astray.




I've also learned that your existing TDA account will close in a full ACAT transfer. There is another option where you could just wire transfer the funds to fund the IB account. But here's something from a complete different angle. My understanding is we have up to Nov 1 to do trades and after that date, the account goes into a 'closing position'. Meaning that you can't make deposits or buy any shares. However you can still keep the account and leave it in a frozen position. TDA is not saying the account must be closed after that date. There could be hope that one day they may change so one strategy is to buy the index ETF and leave it there for many years. Being in a closing position, you would be able to sell off a portion of the shares in the long term future, and then wire transfer a portion of the funds. This may not be so much as a bad idea if you intend to hold the S&P500 or Berkshire Hathaway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferg

I was looking into US online and brokers and came across this:
https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/plus500
You might want to read some of the reviews.

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Yeah I had my issues with PLUS500 ... I purely used it as a gamble using only a few hundred dollars at a time .... I will need a new platform..anyone know a good CFD provider for us Kiwis ,,,???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBmurc

Yeah I had my issues with PLUS500 ... I purely used it as a gamble using only a few hundred dollars at a time .... I will need a new platform..anyone know a good CFD provider for us Kiwis ,,,???

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Anyone with ROCKFORT ?

Thanks SBQ - forewarned re ACATS transfer! I had a glitch getting some funds transferred from TDA as my TDA name is a First and Lastname whereas my ASB account uses Mr and initials and Surname. My new IKBR account is full name with two middles names and TDA has the first middle name. They are pedantic about naming conventions, esp in light of AML. A Please Explain phone call did sort it, thankfully, but it's nerve wracking.

So far, opening the account with IB has been a bit painful but going ok. I did transfer in NZ$ to assist with opening the account, ahead of ACATS transfer. The funds cleared within two days but I was advised it would take 5 days to commence trading. That's not outrageous, though we will see

In terms of trading platform, their Online Portal seems to be the most similar to the TDA online portal ie simplified and easier for unsophisticated folk like me. The TWS IB desktop software is probably similar to the TDA ThinkorSwim software. Very powerful and customisable. Installing it on my main Win 10 PC was seamless and fine. Installing it on my DELL XPS13 2-in-1 laptop is another story. It installed too small to use, practically. Fonts can be increased, to help with viewing/usage, but it needs something like Compatibility DPI mode or some such. Am awaiting their support to help with that one and I'm surprised that searching for answers to this has so far come up fruitless.

Can you do partial transfers via ACATS or is it an all or nothing?

Also very interested to know what other brokerages people are transferring too. IB [IKBR] is too much for small accounts, in my view. ie kids accounts with between $10k and $40k LTBH accounts where the likes of Stake and Hatch etc seem more suited for ease of use and compliance.

Finally, leaving a long term stock, like SPY in TDA is an interesting notion SBQ. Thanks

IBKR - Just to be clear re the monthly subs. if you have a large account ($100,000 USD) there is no minimum fee:
Minimum Activity Fee

Our accounts are designed for sophisticated traders and investors who regularly meet our required minimums. If you do not meet those minimums, we charge a monthly activity fee. Generally, we waive this fee for any month in which:

• You have more than 100,000 USD in equity or
• You generate more than 10 USD in commissions and fees

The monthly activity fee is based on commissions only and does not include fees related to third-party assessments such as market data subscriptions or order modification/cancellation fees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gr8teful

Thanks SBQ - forewarned re ACATS transfer! I had a glitch getting some funds transferred from TDA as my TDA name is a First and Lastname whereas my ASB account uses Mr and initials and Surname. My new IKBR account is full name with two middles names and TDA has the first middle name. They are pedantic about naming conventions, esp in light of AML. A Please Explain phone call did sort it, thankfully, but it's nerve wracking.

So far, opening the account with IB has been a bit painful but going ok. I did transfer in NZ$ to assist with opening the account, ahead of ACATS transfer. The funds cleared within two days but I was advised it would take 5 days to commence trading. That's not outrageous, though we will see

In terms of trading platform, their Online Portal seems to be the most similar to the TDA online portal ie simplified and easier for unsophisticated folk like me. The TWS IB desktop software is probably similar to the TDA ThinkorSwim software. Very powerful and customisable. Installing it on my main Win 10 PC was seamless and fine. Installing it on my DELL XPS13 2-in-1 laptop is another story. It installed too small to use, practically. Fonts can be increased, to help with viewing/usage, but it needs something like Compatibility DPI mode or some such. Am awaiting their support to help with that one and I'm surprised that searching for answers to this has so far come up fruitless.

Can you do partial transfers via ACATS or is it an all or nothing?

Also very interested to know what other brokerages people are transferring too. IB [IKBR] is too much for small accounts, in my view. ie kids accounts with between $10k and $40k LTBH accounts where the likes of Stake and Hatch etc seem more suited for ease of use and compliance.

Finally, leaving a long term stock, like SPY in TDA is an interesting notion SBQ. Thanks

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Yes you can do a partial ACAT transfer however i'm uncertain of the benefit. I'm not sure where it's shown in TDA account setting but in IB they have a listed way you declare what shares and qty to transfer. It may be you only want to transfer the short term shares and leave in TDA the long term shares like the index ETF. Eitherway long term TDA will only allow the shares to be sold in the account and the funds only sent out.

There's another question I need to ask TDA in the case after November 1st, will dividends still be deposited as technically, they are a deposit but not done by an incoming wire transfer.

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

IBKR - Just to be clear re the monthly subs. if you have a large account ($100,000 USD) there is no minimum fee:
Minimum Activity Fee

Our accounts are designed for sophisticated traders and investors who regularly meet our required minimums. If you do not meet those minimums, we charge a monthly activity fee. Generally, we waive this fee for any month in which:

• You have more than 100,000 USD in equity or
• You generate more than 10 USD in commissions and fees

The monthly activity fee is based on commissions only and does not include fees related to third-party assessments such as market data subscriptions or order modification/cancellation fees.

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https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=4969
as per this link there are no monthly maintenance/inactivity fees for any size account. I have been with them for about a month with only a few grand so far and have not incurred any such fees.

Thanks for Clarifying there are no monthly fees Monarch.

Yes, thanks Monach
the knowledge base article I was referencing must now be incorrect.

In fact I have just received a reply to a query I made which says....
"IBKR has terminated account activity fees from July 2021 onward"

so the change is really recent.

Monthly fees for InteractiveBrokers - Just an update, Monarch, there are no fees if you are happy having a 15 minute delay on the prices you view. If you wish to see real time then the fees seem to be about USD $1.50/mnth per exchange [x 3 for me at this stage]. I use TradingView (and wouldn't be without it) but still wish to see within the trading app the real-time prices.

As a previous poster noted, if your trade is such that you bring in $10 - $30USD per month in commissions to IBKR then the monthly subscriptions for live data get waived.

There is facility to setup Sharesight Integration, which will be a definite convenience over TD Ameritrade which would not post PDF Trade Confirmations.

I got caught today, not realising the NZ Currency has to be converted to the currency of the stock being traded, in the case US [RIOT was in my sights] so now have to wait 24 hrs for the conversion to take effect....

Also, needed to change from CASH account to MARGIN account so that Unsettled trade funds can be accessed and some other features that are useful.

ACATS transfer is doable but stock considered Microcaps require extra verification..eg VYGVF

Yeah, so not a straight forward process. GLTA

If we use SBQ's idea and leave a token amount of SPY or similar in TDA, then we can still get their live data and research.
I wonder how long it will take for them to figure that out and close the account fully.

Yahoo Finance has live data in the portfolio for US markets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gr8teful

Monthly fees for InteractiveBrokers - Just an update, Monarch, there are no fees if you are happy having a 15 minute delay on the prices you view. If you wish to see real time then the fees seem to be about USD $1.50/mnth per exchange [x 3 for me at this stage]. I use TradingView (and wouldn't be without it) but still wish to see within the trading app the real-time prices.

As a previous poster noted, if your trade is such that you bring in $10 - $30USD per month in commissions to IBKR then the monthly subscriptions for live data get waived.

There is facility to setup Sharesight Integration, which will be a definite convenience over TD Ameritrade which would not post PDF Trade Confirmations.

I got caught today, not realising the NZ Currency has to be converted to the currency of the stock being traded, in the case US [RIOT was in my sights] so now have to wait 24 hrs for the conversion to take effect....

Also, needed to change from CASH account to MARGIN account so that Unsettled trade funds can be accessed and some other features that are useful.

ACATS transfer is doable but stock considered Microcaps require extra verification..eg VYGVF

Yeah, so not a straight forward process. GLTA

---

For a margin account there are minimum income and or liquid net worth requirements, just ensure you can produce proof of these as they may ask for proof. Also in my experience with currency conversion it was instant so I'm unsure why you would have to wait?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monarch

For a margin account there are minimum income and or liquid net worth requirements, just ensure you can produce proof of these as they may ask for proof. Also in my experience with currency conversion it was instant so I'm unsure why you would have to wait?

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Good news from IBKR's email last night regarding on opening up my margin account:

Dear Client,

Congratulations! Your request to upgrade to portfolio margin for account XXXX123 has been approved. The upgraded permission will be released overnight and available the next trading day.

Please note that your account equity must be at least USD 100,000 (or equivalent) at all times for you to remain portfolio margin eligible without restrictions. If account equity falls below this level, you will be restricted from entering orders which, if executed, would result in an increased margin requirement.


It is recommended that you maintain a level of equity in excess of this minimum in order to maintain unrestricted Portfolio Margin privileges should adverse market moves occur.

Keep in mind, IB provides 2 types of Margin Accounts. More info here:

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=24176

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

Keep in mind, IB provides 2 types of Margin Accounts. More info here:

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I assume you went with portfolio margin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

I assume you went with portfolio margin?

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Yes. There's also the option (pending review and after partial ACAT transfer) for long position shares to be shorted (you lend it). I am eager to see how this works and what benefits IB offers.

great SBQ

I think you're talking about IBKR borrowing your long shares and loaning them to some other to short.
I saw somewhere that you get 50% of the fee they charge the short seller.

Is that right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

great SBQ

I think you're talking about IBKR borrowing your long shares and loaning them to some other to short.
I saw somewhere that you get 50% of the fee they charge the short seller.

Is that right?

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Yes. But not sure on the fee structure. In my early years of Finance studies, brokers typically don't want small accounts to do such lending. The large accounts make lending simpler and there are requirements that when you lend, you can not sell your position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

Yes. But not sure on the fee structure. In my early years of Finance studies, brokers typically don't want small accounts to do such lending. The large accounts make lending simpler and there are requirements that when you lend, you can not sell your position.

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Not so >> https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=46942

Thanks SL
I was looking for that but couldn't find it again :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

Thanks SL
I was looking for that but couldn't find it again :)

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Maybe I should be saying in bold "Long long ago in the PAST" brokers did restrict the sale on long positions when marked as lent out. Gotta watch out for that Snow Leopard. :cool:

But let's read the fine print:

If you sell the fully paid shares that have been lent out, or if you borrow the shares or withdraw cash in a margin account (such that the securities become margin securities and are no longer fully paid or excess margin securities) the loan will terminate and you will stop receiving loan interest.

Seems fair enough.

I've received an important TDA message in clarifying what happens after November 1st. I must stand to correct my previous post as by the wording by international account holders. Earlier in the month we received this message and I interpreted as the account will still exist after the deadline date:

Quote:

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On November 1, 2021, you will be limited to closing existing positions in your account. You will not be able to open any new positions.

TD Ameritrade will not be able to accept additional funding in your account on or soon after November 1, 2021. Please do not add or transfer any additional funds into your account following that date. Please turn off any reoccurring deposits or they will be rejected.

If you wish, you can liquidate your account assets or transfer them to another firm.

• To withdraw funds from your account, please go the My Account tab > Deposits & Transfers > Withdraw.
• If you wish to transfer your assets from your TD Ameritrade account to an external firm, the request should be submitted through and coordinated by the other firm. Please make sure the account is a like-titled account at the other firm and submit an account transfer request through that firm.

If you do nothing, a restriction will be placed on your account limiting the account to closing transactions only. You may continue to hold any current positions and the account may remain at TD Ameritrade.

---

However from 2 replies I received this morning:

Quote:

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Unfortunately, after November 1st 2021 we will no longer be able to maintain accounts with New Zealand addresses so therefore we will not be able to hold long stock. The full account will have to be liquidated and/or transferred to a brokerage firm that can support New Zealand residents prior to November 1st 2021.

---

and from another representative: (because I sent the message twice)

Quote:

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Thank you for reaching out. The address has been updated as you requested. To answer your questions:

1) The Dividend Reinvestment Program (DRIP) will be discontinued because the accounts are no longer able to be held at TD Ameritrade or Schwab. When you move the account, the stocks will be registered at the firm which they are transferred.

2) Unfortunately, the accounts must be moved by November 1st. After that date, we are no longer able to hold the accounts. TD Ameritrade is aligning our policies to match Schwab so when the our two companies have completely merged together there will be little change for clients.

---

So it seems to be some confusion with the official notice, and what their support personnel are informing. My guess is that if any person is wanting to trade, then it's sayanara to TDA. But the question is, do you wait to see what happens after November 1st or close everything up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

But the question is, do you wait to see what happens after November 1st or close everything up?

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I reckon we leave a token amount of something in there and see what happens.
how much that is depends on the size of your portfolio.

thanks for the update SBQ

Thanks for that additional research and clarification, SBQ. The wording of their generic message implied that you could keep your existing holdings for as long as you wished, even beyond 1st November, but from that date cannot issue any transactional order whatever its nature (long/short stocks, ETFs, options, futures, etc.). But the responses from the 2 representatives you contacted indicate that even keeping your existing holdings will not be possible.
So essentially, you've got till 1st November to sell everything and transfer the money to another broker (or transfer your stocks directly to another broker - I assume you can only transfer long and not short?)

Did not have a great experience with IBK given small account. Have just signed up with Tastyworks which was pretty straight forward.

From Trading View
https://www.tradingview.com/

"New data & brokerages
Over the last few months we’ve added new brokerages and data partners. Please put your hands together to welcome Saxo, Exmo, Global Prime, and TimeX."
I don't use but maybe useful for some

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiora

From Trading View
https://www.tradingview.com/

"New data & brokerages
Over the last few months we’ve added new brokerages and data partners. Please put your hands together to welcome Saxo, Exmo, Global Prime, and TimeX."
I don't use but maybe useful for some

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There's hundreds of brokers worldwide though it's very dependent on residency of the person and residency on the financial institution. That link appears to be a sharing of different blogs by different traders around the world which may be useful for gauging investment opportunities.

As for these different brokers? Few mention the issue of the CRS regulations and by no surprise, the USA is not part of that program nor the country would ever comply (America has always been a nation that does not confirm to globalist requirements mandated by say the OECD, the EU, the UN, or the NZ FMA). In fact, the US was the first to introduce a global tax reporting requirement for US citizens through their FACTA program. Essentially the CRS was just a copy of that. In practice, few financial institutions will want to face the heat by going against FACTA because the US is a major financial hub and the punishment for non compliance is a full ban of financial activity in the US. But in terms of CRS - some countries benefit more from the sharing; hint 'the US is not one of them'. I suppose most brokerage firms in the US just simply don't want the hassles with CRS. The same applies with banking as Wells Fargo announced earlier in the year the closure of opening new accounts for any foreign clients and is closing their Intl Wealth Mgt division. Of the few that will do foreign clients, such as IB, are doing so because a) they're a large enough brokerage firm with a large legal team, and b) they operate in a country that is not part of the CRS program. Remember, there is nothing the NZ gov't can do with their FMA to strong arm a foreign country, to have their brokers to comply with their regulations. But with their nasty letters they send out to these foreign brokers, all they are doing is straining the relationship of sovereign nations, in a way that perhaps the NZX will get excluded from the global trading market (as these brokers will say we not only closing out NZ clients, but also will stop our clients from accessing the NZX. ie say managed funds that have a S. Pacific ETF profile. Proof is the low level of liquidity on the NZX which I would be not surprised, is comprised of mostly NZ fund / retail traders and a bit of Australian.

Notwithstanding the above statement, i'm am not encouraging people to practice tax evasion. In a globalised world, where you have data breaches, cryptocurrency exchanges being hacked, insider jobs stealing $, you name it ; safe guarding client information, especially SIN/TIN information ranks supreme.

Do you think it is likely IB will close down nz accounts as well? It would be a real pain if they did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monarch

Do you think it is likely IB will close down nz accounts as well? It would be a real pain if they did.

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No one knows if IB will close NZ accounts. Prior to leaving Canada, Daytek was my US broker, then Ameritrade bought them out, then TD merged with them, then finally Charles Schwab bought them out. I don't think TDA had any intentions of closing foreign clients out until Schwab came along.

Have a look at IB's list of countries they accept clients from:

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=7021

Then compare that list to what other major brokers in the US are willing to accept? It's very clear IB is sitting on the other side of the fence as they disregard the CRS or foreign gov't regulations. Then there's the anti-$ laundering aspect. I wonder how many of those countries in that list have a thorough policy against laundering $ ? I recall Mexico claimed that status while El Chapo drug $ went into HSBC's bank accounts; "saying and doing are 2 different things".

Keep in mind, since the eruption of the Panama Papers (and similar tax free haven breaches that the media has exposed in the past several years), the OECD and UN has stepped up their tax evasion policy. This brought out the CRS, and recently, Janet Allen's meeting at the UN earlier in the year, to have a global minimum tax on corporations. We've seen the EU try to tax companies like Apple in Europe (despite being incorporated in Ireland where they negotiated a tax free status ; no different than the US auto-pac negotiates a free trade, duty free, tax free zone in Mexico. So the more appropriate question is how far will the sovereignty of a country remain credible if foreign gov't entities can muscle arm their policies?

Then there's the NZ side of things where I see brokers like Jarden and Macquarie milking in fees off clients in much the same way I saw brokers back in Canada do the same in the early 90s. What brought on change in Canada was competition from the US. Canada was forced to remove archaic regulations such as a managed fund had a minimum 33% domestic Cdn asset requirement. The Cdn gov't knew they could not stop people from wanting to invest in US equities nor structure tax laws to discourage investment from leaving Canada (as the US stakeholders had investment heavily tied into Canada). However when I look at NZ, we have a horse of a different colour. We're geographically remote from all the major equity markets. We have gov't FMA regulations that are telling foreign brokers not to deal with NZ residents. We have a tax structure that is vastly different to the taxation in most OECD nations (ie. we don't have a formal CGT policy). We have FIF that taxes paper gains. We have managed funds that tax under RWT vs N. America residents that do 'deferred taxation' in their investment RRSP/401K etc plans.

On different news. My partial ACAT transfer came through from TDA which took about 3 days. This means in the future months, a full account transfer can be done without any hitches if TDA has to be closed out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

On different news. My partial ACAT transfer came through from TDA which took about 3 days. This means in the future months, a full account transfer can be done without any hitches if TDA has to be closed out.

---

Good news SBQ!!
I've been trying to figure out if my father's trust can open an IB account (3 owners). it turns out that an IB joint account can only have 2 owners.
I'm waiting for a reply from IB as to what is possible

Quote:

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On different news. My partial ACAT transfer came through from TDA which took about 3 days. This means in the future months, a full account transfer can be done without any hitches if TDA has to be closed out.

---

Thanks for that, SBQ, good to know.

I have now completed my full ACAT transfer from TD Ameritrade to Firstrade.
I have to say it went swimmingly. I had to pay USD 75.00 for the transfer. It took just 4 business days. A hiccup with some of my positions (non marketable) meant my initial transfer request was rejected and I had to call TD Ameritrade but they were very helpful. Resolved very quickly.
I am now trading on Firstrade and so far so good but it's early days. The platform seem OK to use, research tools are equivalent to those on TDA (I only use basic ones though).

Bear in mind that during an ACAT transfer, your TDA website access will be blocked, and so you spend a few days not knowing what your positions are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toukshare

I have now completed my full ACAT transfer from TD Ameritrade to Firstrade.
I have to say it went swimmingly. I had to pay USD 75.00 for the transfer. It took just 4 business days. A hiccup with some of my positions (non marketable) meant my initial transfer request was rejected and I had to call TD Ameritrade but they were very helpful. Resolved very quickly.
I am now trading on Firstrade and so far so good but it's early days. The platform seem OK to use, research tools are equivalent to those on TDA (I only use basic ones though).

Bear in mind that during an ACAT transfer, your TDA website access will be blocked, and so you spend a few days not knowing what your positions are.

---

Good to know - during my 'partial' ACAT transfer I was still able to login TDA and view all positions.

As a reminder (and you may know), TD sent a reminder message, to confirm it quotes:

Quote:

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If you do nothing, a restriction will be placed on your account limiting the account to closing transactions only. You may continue to hold any current positions and the account may remain at TD Ameritrade.

---

So this means to pick ultra long term positions. Say Vanguard's VOO, BRKB, or long term ETFs where you can slowly sell over the years and transfer to your bank account in a retirement situation.

been long time td trader shame alright to get the message about closing accounts. its been mentioned IB is good as well but you need to be a regular trader to make it worth while.

anyway got one of my my last otc trades on gvsi go you beauty lol


if you really wanted to keep your account you could set up a LLC in any state you choose and transfer the account to that entity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bull....

been long time td trader shame alright to get the message about closing accounts. its been mentioned IB is good as well but you need to be a regular trader to make it worth while.

anyway got one of my my last otc trades on gvsi go you beauty lol


if you really wanted to keep your account you could set up a LLC in any state you choose and transfer the account to that entity.

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That would be beyond most people's interest and from a tax perspective, a huge disadvantage. The US incorporated company will have annual accounting and lawyer to contend with, and above all - annual filing to the IRS. If the directors of the LLC is a NZ resident, then there are other rules which i'm sure IRD would be interested in knowing.

Compared to the individual owning directly - they only have to deal with W8BEN filling every 2 1/2 years for IRS compliance. At the IRD end it's only FIF if total invested capital exceeds the $50K threshold. The only advantage I can see by setting up a company is if the owner dies, the company can carry on and avoid the US estate / death taxes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

That would be beyond most people's interest and from a tax perspective, a huge disadvantage. The US incorporated company will have annual accounting and lawyer to contend with, and above all - annual filing to the IRS. If the directors of the LLC is a NZ resident, then there are other rules which i'm sure IRD would be interested in knowing.

Compared to the individual owning directly - they only have to deal with W8BEN filling every 2 1/2 years for IRS compliance. At the IRD end it's only FIF if total invested capital exceeds the $50K threshold. The only advantage I can see by setting up a company is if the owner dies, the company can carry on and avoid the US estate / death taxes.

---

like you say it probably not realistic for most individual's on the other hand for some people it is a good solution for people wanting a presence in the us without to much paperwork needed and its not a big tax disadvantage.
LLC can be look thru companies and all have different tax requirements depending on the state you register in and some can effectively be no tax pay in us as there are a lot deductions available.
NZ ird disclosure is probably as a foreign controlled company and hence the income is taxed as foreign income in NZ tax return. simple stuff really but as always a tax expert in int tax matters is important to ensure you doing right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bull....

like you say it probably not realistic for most individual's on the other hand for some people it is a good solution for people wanting a presence in the us without to much paperwork needed and its not a big tax disadvantage.
LLC can be look thru companies and all have different tax requirements depending on the state you register in and some can effectively be no tax pay in us as there are a lot deductions available.
NZ ird disclosure is probably as a foreign controlled company and hence the income is taxed as foreign income in NZ tax return. simple stuff really but as always a tax expert in int tax matters is important to ensure you doing right.

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My mind may be a bit off but as i'm aware, a US non-resident alien (foreign resident) can not directly form an LLC as a 'look through' tax status with the IRS. Regardless of being LLC or a look-through status, individuals have no problem accessing US investments directly. Generally speaking, things get difficult when a shareholder of the company dies. This is not something I would advise for individuals to consider doing as it can open up a can of worms. Unlike IRD, the IRS has extraordinary powers that favour to their advantage. For eg. if an individual owns a company in the US and derives income from it, then they lose the right for declaring W-8BEN status and would require a different form that attracts more IRS scrutiny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

My mind may be a bit off but as i'm aware, a US non-resident alien (foreign resident) can not directly form an LLC as a 'look through' tax status with the IRS. Regardless of being LLC or a look-through status, individuals have no problem accessing US investments directly. Generally speaking, things get difficult when a shareholder of the company dies. This is not something I would advise for individuals to consider doing as it can open up a can of worms. Unlike IRD, the IRS has extraordinary powers that favour to their advantage. For eg. if an individual owns a company in the US and derives income from it, then they lose the right for declaring W-8BEN status and would require a different form that attracts more IRS scrutiny.

---

im no tax expert on these matters but it is an avenue worth pursuing if you want to do business in the usa or have access to there services.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toukshare

I have now completed my full ACAT transfer from TD Ameritrade to Firstrade.

Bear in mind that during an ACAT transfer, your TDA website access will be blocked, and so you spend a few days not knowing what your positions are.

---

I've also finished setting up IB and all transfers are complete.
The TDA account was viewable the whole time the transfer was happening. mine took longer because the two accounts are named slightly differently.
but both companies worked together and got everything transferred with a minimum of fuss.

I've bought one thing already and it was no hassle at any level. A small commission fee which we all know about, but nothing that is an issue.

BUT
Wow, getting money to and from NZ is easy, free and fast. and the Fx rates are the best I've seen in ages (ASB is not great and Paypal is really poor).
also, the stock lending programme looks like it will give me a small amount each month that will be more than the commissions I'll be paying. so I'm better off than TDA on that thought.
Add to that the ability to buy in a lot of extra countries and it seems I am better off overall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

So this means to pick ultra long term positions. Say Vanguard's VOO, BRKB, or long term ETFs where you can slowly sell over the years and transfer to your bank account in a retirement situation.

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I looked at VOO (and others) but the dividend would breach the no deposit TDA rule I think. I went with BRK-B where they will be unlikely to ever pay a dividend

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relaxed

I've also finished setting up IB and all transfers are complete.
The TDA account was viewable the whole time the transfer was happening. mine took longer because the two accounts are named slightly differently.
but both companies worked together and got everything transferred with a minimum of fuss.

---

Well, that's interesting. When I got blocked from accessing my TDA account, I contacted TDA and this is what they emailed me: "Your transfer is an Automated Customer Account Transfer Service (ACATS) request. This is an automated process between firms that generally takes five to eight business days to complete.
If You Have Requested a Total Transfer Out to Another Firm:
Your account will be closed and online access to it will be blocked. This is to prevent any trading of assets that are in the process of being transferred out. etc etc."

My online access was indeed closed, as described in the email. It is interesting that yours was not.

Not a biggie in the grand scheme of things, but I wonder why we were treated differently. Possibly a not particularly robust process on TDA side, that's dependent on the manual intervention of staff.

My experience of Firstrade so far is good, as yours seems to be. It does what I need.

Did anyone else get a letter from TDA today - what did the letter say?

Unfortunately mine got thrown away by mistake

Was it a list of current positions/balances or just a note about closing down in NZ?

Thank in advance....Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toukshare

My experience of Firstrade so far is good, as yours seems to be. It does what I need.

---

I'm glad it is working out for everyone.
bit of a pain with TDA closing us down, but such is life and nothing lost in the end except a bit of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve9

Did anyone else get a letter from TDA today - what did the letter say?

Unfortunately mine got thrown away by mistake

Was it a list of current positions/balances or just a note about closing down in NZ?

Thank in advance....Steve

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No, my letter was just the exact same message as the emails we have been getting. SBQ has noted the You may continue to hold any current positions and the account may remain at TD Ameritrade. which my letter repeated as well

Seeing that we are past the Nov 1st date, has anyone been able to make BUY trades on their TDA account? In a 'closing position' I assume this means you 'can't ?

Sorry typo wrong thread

I was using TDAmeritrade for the thinkorswim platform to learn the US stocks but ended up shifting to Interactive Brokers IBKR because it's a lot easier to use and there were whispers a year ago that NZ accounts would be removed.

IBKR is great. At first I found it confusing but once I got used to it it's very easy to buy shares or options. I like the app and the desktop. I mainly use the desktop portal on the browser as it's easier to follow.

Commission fees are low. Money transfers are very fast in and out of IBKR to my ASB account.
You do have to convert your NZD to buy. I just assumed that my US stock purchases would come out of my deposits but each currency is separate so I had negative USD and +NZD for a while until I realised you have to convert the money first but it's been pretty smooth.