Income Education

A friend Michael, told me about a seminar he went to today at Wellington Airport given by Income education. Clearly very persuasive, they offered access to American real estate. Their basic strategy appears to require people to move their equity to American property investments. They wheeled out a NZ'er, Sandra, who now lives in Brisbane. Her story is typically emotive, involving God, newborn children who survived against the odds, motivated by a desire to change her life, final release to financial freedom. To do this it claims she purchased four rental properties, 16 tax liens, of which only eight have paid out. She had money to buy only one property, and because of what she had learned about investing from Income Education, she was able to leverage other money to get all four. To quote Sandra, "I've changed. I've learned to be responsible for my decisions. Before, I could say that I had no choice. if I invested in stocks and the company I invested in lost the money, it wasn't by doing. But this opportunity has made me incredibly strong. It's taught me to make a decision and stand by that decision."

At the seminar at which Sandra spoke, there were six people attending. Four left before the presentation began. That left Michael, and another person. After presenting the opportunity, they asked for $2800 to "invest" in a tax lien, and when that came through, they would refund the entire amount, less $600 for an investment training seminar lasting three days. Michael said that he saw a person who worked at Te Puni Kokiri sign up, presumably to accept the training. He was told that the previous night, 120 people had attended. He believed mornings didn't suit people so well to attend these sorts of seminars.

I explained to Michael, that that was probably untrue. In any case, it was not an offer that he should accept. He hasn't accepted it, but I very surprised how persuaded he had become to accept their ideas of investment.

I wondered if you were aware of this seminar taking place, what you thought of their offer, whether you would be attracted yourself. Their website is www.Incomeeducation.com

Sounds like an 'education' scam. Lots of 'educators' pushing US property since the GFC. If it sounds too good to be true, avoid it!

Wouldnt touch it with a barge pole

Their basic strategy appears to require people to move their equity to American property investments. They wheeled out a NZ'er, Sandra, who now lives in Brisbane. Her story is typically emotive, involving God, newborn children who survived against the odds, motivated by a desire to change her life, final release to financial freedom

The above quote from that post is typical of that type of seminar and turns me right off.

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Originally Posted by stones

Wouldnt touch it with a barge pole

Their basic strategy appears to require people to move their equity to American property investments. They wheeled out a NZ'er, Sandra, who now lives in Brisbane. Her story is typically emotive, involving God, newborn children who survived against the odds, motivated by a desire to change her life, final release to financial freedom

The above quote from that post is typical of that type of seminar and turns me right off.

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Refer them to he FMA

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Originally Posted by Schrodinger

Refer them to he FMA

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Done that....

The FMA replied and said that it had been reported a couple of times already recently. They thought it was pressure selling, and isn't strictly illegal.

Have they looked into what they have been saying.. asking for "$2800 to invest" in a tax lien" seems to be pushing the line.

Considering that most buyers wont know what the $2800 is exactly for and what constitutes a tax lien then this should be looked into.

The FMA contacted me as a result of this posting to reinforce their position. They are monitoring my responses to this forum. I can't comment further, sorry.....

IN my humble opinion the FMA are toothless. I have contacted them on occasions to ask about a position or rule and they said "contact your lawyer" when it is the FMA making the rules. Useless.

Thanks for posting this Fred. Yours was the only independent questioning I could find on this hard-sell. I signed up here to reply, it might help some others, as IncomeEducation are now doing the rounds of Australia, and preparing for Japan I believe.


I didn't sign up after my local IncomeEducation presentation here in Adelaide last week, not knowing much about US real estate - thought to check it out on line with a possibly view to signing up on the following day's presentation if it seemed kosher. Their spiel over here is much the same, more bias pushing tax liens which 'have a guaranteed return of 14-18% and if it forecloses you get a claim on the property itself'. Sounded too good to be true, but two local success stories spoke also. One, a granny from Brisbane, had done the follow-on course was buying tax liens through IncomeEducation - another was a guy from NSW who used the 3-day course for education only, but was investing directly in US real estate himself, and NOT using IncomeEducation's portfolio.


Some facts from my presentation, and questioning their 'success story' dupes after, are:
- IncomeEducation quantified success as 'closing a deal' - as in the punter buys a tax lien or other some such US investment through their portfolio. It was not that the punter got paid out on a tax lien and actually made any profit on it.
- The hard-sell 3 day education workshop cost over $2k with an optional extra 'upgrade' to set up a limited liability company, get a US tax file number, and get expedited 'dealing'. Upon closing your first 'deal' you would be refunded the full course fee, less upgrade. To obtain the refund you had to either buy a US property to rent, fix and flip, quick flip, whatever - or buy six tax liens. Of course, the granny had bought 6 tax liens, and said to me that when offered her refund, she reinvested it in more.
- Once a tax lien has passed its redemption period, you can begin negotiations with the resident to foreclose and claim ownership, or persuade the resident to pay up on the lien. Or that's my understanding of what they said.
- One of the 'success stories' mentioned to me that the vast majority of tax liens they offer for sale in their portfolio have already passed their redemption period, and 'if you can find one which isn't, that's a gold mine'.


That evening I found some videos on everyone's favourite video website by 'taxlienlady' who filled me in on a number of other things, complementing the 'education' I had so far received, some pertinent points from her videos being:
- when you purchase a tax lien you are NOT buying the property and you CAN NOT evict anyone. IF the bank decides to foreclose they would have to pay you off first.
- several tax liens can be taken out on the same property. Earlier liens tend to get priority. Some states can take out tax liens themselves and not disclose that they have done so.
- tax lien law varies with the US state, but they all have a time limit before the redemption period expires, and they all EXPIRE WORTHLESS after a certain amount of time has passed beyond the redemption period. In some states they may not expire for 20 years, in others, one year.


Enough said? Taxlienlady has 10 videos uploaded, they are well worth a watch for any foreigner wishing to invest in US real estate tax liens.


Disclosure - I am not affiliated with anyone mentioned above. I was just another potentially gullible punter like Fred's mate. I have no knowledge that the information presented to me by IncomeEducation was true or not. I have no knowledge that the information in Taxlienlady's videos is true or not.


My take on all this is that their 3 day course may be worthwhile, the NSW guy seemed to think so. What you choose to do with that information is up to you.


Greetings from Oz, and happy investing.


R.

Income Education's intro format can have some unfortunate similarities to other dodgy promotions that most of us have heard of. (e.g. Gold Coast real estate seminars) Smooth sales presentations can also turn off Aussies/Kiwis - more than Americans probably realise.

Having said that, if you can look past the style issues and focus on the substance of the opportunity, I think most people will see that there is serious money to be made through US real estate. Everyone has to decide for themselves whether they want to invest in that market. If they do, they then need to decide if they want education or not. I did their 3 day workshop and I found the information I learned valuable many times over. The thing that sold me was that I was never locked into any system of buying - but I could pick and choose how much or little I purchased in association with them. At the end of the day, my success is based on my effort. This was never a get rich quick scheme. It was the knowledge I needed to effectively invest.

I would just say this. At the end of the day, don't let anyone pressure you into something that you don't want to do. But if you want to do it, then go for it. My experience with Income Education was positive.

My own experience: a lady friend asked me to go with her to the Income Education seminar just finished in Sydney as she felt that I would have a better understanding of it. I could only attend the first two days, but she paid for my participation and accommodation so my opinion is not influenced by any expense I might need to justify. My view is that the company is genuine and can guide you to making big money investing in US real estate, the caveat is that to get the full value you need to attend all three seminars with the second called "Boots On The Ground" costing $25,000 and I would imagine the third at least the same. There is also an ongoing monthly cost of $29.95 to use the supplied computer software. The bottom line is I feel that you will need to start with about $80,000 to cover the cost of the seminars and subsequent investments, which I knew that my friend did not have so I advised her to Cut and Run as I felt that she would also be out of her depth, but last I heard is that she is going to the next seminar so I imagine that there will be more calls for help in future.

Obviously you are wrong on two counts as I did not create the account for a single post, nor am I an employee of Income Education. I am a retired Age Pensioner who makes a bit of money on the side investing in the Stock Market. Do you honestly believe this company would pay me to let people know how much they might eventually be up for after they take the first step of attending an Income Education seminar? What do you think the most likely outcome of that would be? People who were thinking about it will now be having second thoughts and if I was an employee I would be facing instant dismissal. I see that you make many posts in this forum, I would hope that you put a bit more thought into them than you have with this one.

If you make money investing in the stock market stick to commenting on that,as you credibility on Income Education is zero.!l

I had a quick look at their website out of morbid curiosity. If the "testimonials" (a word which I use extremely loosely) and the the rather large number of warnings my antivirus software are anything to go by, just no...

I've got a copy of 0 to 130 in 3.5 anyone is welcome to borrow.
I think I paid about $10 on fishpond and the advice is infinitely better than I imagine any of these seminars to be.

So we have two sides to the story, one based on opinions, the other based on facts. I am prepared to let the readers here decide which they would give the most credibility to, and feel despite the number of negative posts here others should be prepared to do the same.

lol $80k "investment" to get started. I prefer to invest in real assets not someone else's back account number.

Finally a bit of common sense. Exposing what the final cost would be was hardly ever going to encourage anyone to invest in this company, and rather than working for them they would probably like to have my head on a pike.

[Edited by STMOD]

Surely there target market is the US. Why are they selling these seminars here, after all helping Americans buy US real estate would be more cost effective. Maybe they can't sell these seminars in the US or maybe Americans are not as gullible. I suspect there are thousands of these like seminars in America.

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Originally Posted by h2so4

Surely there target market is the US. Why are they selling these seminars here, after all helping Americans buy US real estate would be more cost effective. Maybe they can't sell these seminars in the US or maybe Americans are not as gullible. I suspect there are thousands of these like seminars in America.

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That's what I wonder as well, And I noticed the other day somewhere, advertising property in Australia again - Apartments I think it was in Queensland somewhere, would not think the Australian market is short of buyers, unless it is from a Lifestyle/holiday home slant.

These people have been operating for years in America under a different name. Your friend was understandably seduced because they are expert in the art of persuasion and human psychology.
There is a mountain of information on the web. Just google or youtube: “Yancey seminar”, “Insider’s Financial real estate workshop”, “Dean Graziosi”, “Jon Giann”.


Some links that are of interest:


http://www.bbb.org/blog/2012/07/real...y-your-wallet/


http://www.utahconsumeradvocate.com/...rnational-pmi/