Should the Green Party have a name change , if so to what ?

IMHO the Green Party has lost its way, it has been taken over by the loony left and has lost its green credentials, nowadays it more of a Envy Party and has nothing to do with the green values that its founders stood for.

So sad so very sad, I bet that Janette Fitzwhoever would turn in her grave every time that she reads the B S that they now publish.

I don't know so much. They seem pretty Green to me, to the point of being extremist Green. Years ago they, were grounded in reality and might have got my vote. These days they feel like an obsessive party, with no idea how to find a balance between protecting the environment, and realistically allowing us to still live our lives. They will never get my vote while they are so tunnel visioned.

New name : Maori Party ll

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whatsup

IMHO the Green Party has lost its way, it has been taken over by the loony left and has lost its green credentials, nowadays it more of a Envy Party and has nothing to do with the green values that its founders stood for.

So sad so very sad, I bet that Janette Fitzwhoever would turn in her grave every time that she reads the B S that they now publish.

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Yes, they should. Their social policies scare the hell out of me.
Social Democrats ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

I don't know so much. They seem pretty Green to me, to the point of being extremist Green. Years ago they, were grounded in reality and might have got my vote. These days they feel like an obsessive party, with no idea how to find a balance between protecting the environment, and realistically allowing us to still live our lives. They will never get my vote while they are so tunnel visioned.

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Agree, I may not have always agreed with Jeaneatte Fitsimons and Rod Donald but they stood for their principles. I could admire that.

This lot, not sure what is going on.

The Communist Party

National is not National, act doesn’t want to act, labour is not for the workers today.

Only NZ first lives up to its name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcap

Agree, I may not have always agreed with Jeaneatte Fitsimons and Rod Donald but they stood for their principles. I could admire that.

This lot, not sure what is going on.

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Pretty much same here. Shaw got rid of a lot of the old guard who had a clear vision and had been on the front line of the fight for the environment.
I do have a lot of time for Eugenie Sage, but I think she is retiring at the election. I don't mind Chloe either. Certainly some areas I don't agree with, but she's intelligent, articulate & passionate. Should be the co-leader rather than Davidson.

Surely it must be ‘The Watermelon Party’.

From what I & others are hearing, young people are going to vote for the Greens in droves.
They're fed up with the huge inter generational inequality of wealth & the policies of both main parties & ACT to protect the wealth & privilege of the older generations.

While the older generation have enjoyed free university education & massive tax free capital gains, things like Super Gold card freebees & Superannuation, plus having stuffed the environment & climate, they've got huge student debt, locked out of the housing market, facing a climate crisis etc.

Hipkin's announcement today of ruling out any Capital Gains or Wealth tax, & National's raising the age of Superannuation & re-igniting the housing investor market & protecting landlords is only going to exacerbate this trend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Skies

From what I & others are hearing, young people are going to vote for the Greens in droves.
They're fed up with the huge inter generational inequality of wealth & the policies of both main parties & ACT to protect the wealth & privilege of the older generations.

While the older generation have enjoyed free university education & massive tax free capital gains, things like Super Gold card freebees & Superannuation, plus having stuffed the environment & climate, they've got huge student debt, locked out of the housing market, facing a climate crisis etc.

Hipkin's announcement today of ruling out any Capital Gains or Wealth tax, & National's raising the age of Superannuation & re-igniting the housing investor market & protecting landlords is only going to exacerbate this trend.

---

Young people voted for the Greens ‘in droves’ at the last election. The idealistic youth vote always swings Left.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Surely it must be ‘The Watermelon Party’.

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I'd say SCOTTOTT. Socialist Committee On The Teat of TE Tiriti. Maybe just Racist, Sexist Communist Party is the facts based name. Has to have a woman co-leader and a Maori co leader. Remember Genter pushing for Shaw to go? 2 Women is just fine and dandy.

Call them what they are. Racist, sexist Marxists.

This is my fear to be honest. I think it is great that they are thinking about environmental issues, but if you take the environmental stuff out of the equation, what do the Greens have to offer them? People need to consider all the issues NZ is currently facing, not simply focus on one. Vote for the party that ticks the most boxes, and right now, that is definitely not​ the Greens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Skies

From what I & others are hearing, young people are going to vote for the Greens in droves.
They're fed up with the huge inter generational inequality of wealth & the policies of both main parties & ACT to protect the wealth & privilege of the older generations.

While the older generation have enjoyed free university education & massive tax free capital gains, things like Super Gold card freebees & Superannuation, plus having stuffed the environment & climate, they've got huge student debt, locked out of the housing market, facing a climate crisis etc.

Hipkin's announcement today of ruling out any Capital Gains or Wealth tax, & National's raising the age of Superannuation & re-igniting the housing investor market & protecting landlords is only going to exacerbate this trend.

---

The Radical Racist Revolution Party (RRRP)

The Red-Green But Mainly Red Revolution Party

The Green Party will never solve climate change so their existence is about as useful as a concrete parachute. Even if New Zealand disappeared beneath the ocean waves, drowning our cars and cows, the world would still have the small matter of the other 99.83% of global emissions to deal with.

Although we are lectured and brow-beaten daily by earnest idealists about how we ‘must do our part’, the big global polluters will not moderate their behaviour one iota.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entrep

The Radical Racist Revolution Party (RRRP)

The Red-Green But Mainly Red Revolution Party

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You're onto it Entrep. Or maybe the Green-Red Mainly Red Revolution Party (GRRRP). Kinda like an after dinner belch on an acid stomach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Young people voted for the Greens ‘in droves’ at the last election. The idealistic youth vote always swings Left.

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One reason young people could vote for Greens this upcoming election is their guaranteed income policy, with them being likely to benefit from the policy. Or at least it could in the short term, at the expense of everyone else. It's a horribly perverse policy in my opinion.

This upcoming election will be the first I'll be allowed to vote in. I'll be voting either ACT or National.

The Obnoxious Weeds Party.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Although we are lectured and brow-beaten daily by earnest idealists about how we ‘must do our part’, the big global polluters will not moderate their behaviour one iota.

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If you mean that other nations are not doing anything to mitigate AGW, you are certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without consequences in terms of trading relationships you are almost certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without undermining the international consensus around AGW you are probably wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davflaws

If you mean that other nations are not doing anything to mitigate AGW, you are certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without consequences in terms of trading relationships you are almost certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without undermining the international consensus around AGW you are probably wrong.

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Davflaws, don't dignify this thread with a response to a bunch of Rednecks.
Childish name calling. Proud of yourselves?

Meanwhile, Green's up in the latest poll to almost 9%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davflaws

If you mean that other nations are not doing anything to mitigate AGW, you are certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without consequences in terms of trading relationships you are almost certainly wrong.

If you mean that NZ can ignore our international obligations to mitigate AGW without undermining the international consensus around AGW you are probably wrong.

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Daytr calls other more learned posters ‘Rednecks’, then goes on to blast people for ‘childish name calling’. Oh dear.

When confronted with factual information, the response from the Left is to lose the plot. They just cannot accept that even if New Zealand cut its emissions to zero, it would make no practical difference to the trajectory of global warming. This is what we call an ‘inconvenient truth’.

https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/

‘China’s emissions under current policies remain sky high with no sign of substantial emission reductions before the 2030 peaking timeline, putting one of the country’s NDC targets in jeopardy. Energy and electricity demand forecasts continue to grow, prolonging China's dependence on fossil fuels, despite substantial progress in renewables and end use sectors.

The government continues to champion the role of fossil fuels in transitioning its energy sector, with maximising coal production and oil and gas exploration seen as key to providing stability and security.

‘Carbon emissions peaking’ timelines in high-emitting industry sectors have been pushed back to align with the economy-wide 2030 peaking target. The government appears to have room to raise ambition in its climate, energy and sector targets but geopolitics, energy security concerns, and international diplomacy remain a lingering barrier. The CAT’s overall rating for China’s policies and targets remains “Highly insufficient”.

China’s production and mining of coal in 2022 were at record high levels, while coal power capacity in the pipeline remains by far the world's largest.

The CAT rates China’s climate targets and policies as “Highly Insufficient”. The “Highly insufficient” rating indicates that China’s climate policies and commitments are not consistent with the Paris Agreement’s 1.5°C temperature limit and lead to a plateau of high, rather than falling, emissions levels.

China’s climate commitment in 2030 falls between two categories: “Insufficient” and “Highly Insufficient”. The CAT rates China’s commitments as “Highly Insufficient” as emission levels under its NDC commitments are substantially higher than what would be deemed 1.5°C compatible compared to its “fair share” contribution.’

Thats quite funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Daytr calls other more learned posters ‘Rednecks’, then goes on to blast people for ‘childish name calling’. Oh dear.

When confronted with factual information, the response from the Left is to lose the plot. They just cannot accept that even if New Zealand cut its emissions to zero, it would make no practical difference to the trajectory of global warming. This is what we call an ‘inconvenient truth’.

https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/

‘China’s emissions under current policies remain sky high with no sign of substantial emission reductions before the 2030 peaking timeline, putting one of the country’s NDC targets in jeopardy. Energy and electricity demand forecasts continue to grow, prolonging China's dependence on fossil fuels, despite substantial progress in renewables and end use sectors.

The government continues to champion the role of fossil fuels in transitioning its energy sector, with maximising coal production and oil and gas exploration seen as key to providing stability and security.

‘Carbon emissions peaking’ timelines in high-emitting industry sectors have been pushed back to align with the economy-wide 2030 peaking target. The government appears to have room to raise ambition in its climate, energy and sector targets but geopolitics, energy security concerns, and international diplomacy remain a lingering barrier. The CAT’s overall rating for China’s policies and targets remains “Highly insufficient”.

China’s production and mining of coal in 2022 were at record high levels, while coal power capacity in the pipeline remains by far the world's largest.

The CAT rates China’s climate targets and policies as “Highly Insufficient”. The “Highly insufficient” rating indicates that China’s climate policies and commitments are not consistent with the Paris Agreement’s 1.5°C temperature limit and lead to a plateau of high, rather than falling, emissions levels.

China’s climate commitment in 2030 falls between two categories: “Insufficient” and “Highly Insufficient”. The CAT rates China’s commitments as “Highly Insufficient” as emission levels under its NDC commitments are substantially higher than what would be deemed 1.5°C compatible compared to its “fair share” contribution.’

---

It's because your point is lame.
The majority of countries in the world only have a very small percentage of global emissions. In fact the 3rd largest emitter is below 5%.
So over 200 countries individually have a small percentage of global emissions.

But accumlatively they add up to around 70% of emissions and as a country you cannot apply pressure on other countries if you are not performing yourself.

More & more trade agreements are going to include climate change & other environmental clauses. So you would isolate NZs economy from the major markets such as Europe but over time many more.

But hey let's keep the 10M cows in NZ belching and farting & even more damaging, pissing & crapping into our fresh water.

If the cap fits wear it, be it Redneck or Dinosaur.
I hope you don't have grandchildren.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

It's because your point is lame.
The majority of countries in the world only have a very small percentage of global emissions. In fact the 3rd largest emitter is below 5%.
So over 200 countries individually have a small percentage of global emissions.

But accumlatively they add up to around 70% of emissions and as a country you cannot apply pressure on other countries if you are not performing yourself.

More & more trade agreements are going to include climate change & other environmental clauses. So you would isolate NZs economy from the major markets such as Europe but over time many more.

But hey let's keep the 10M cows in BZ belching and farting & even more damaging, pissing & crapping into our fresh water.

If the cap fits wear it, be it Redneck or Dinosaur.
I hope you don't have or grandchildren.

---

‘So over 200 countries individually have a small percentage of global emissions.

But accumlatively they add up to around 70% of emissions’

————

Factually incorrect:
China = 29.18% of global emissions
India = 7.09% of global emissions
USA = 14.02% global emissions
Russia = 4.65% of global emissions
Japan = 3.47% of global emissions
= 58.41%

NZ : “Duh, we are rich & we must do our part; we will hammer our farming sector which produces food”.

China : “Meh, we are still developing. Get back to us in 2030. We will keep increasing our coal production and keep opening steel mills to make steel to use in building empty ghost cities”.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

It's because your point is lame.
The majority of countries in the world only have a very small percentage of global emissions. In fact the 3rd largest emitter is below 5%.
So over 200 countries individually have a small percentage of global emissions.

But accumlatively they add up to around 70% of emissions and as a country you cannot apply pressure on other countries if you are not performing yourself.

More & more trade agreements are going to include climate change & other environmental clauses. So you would isolate NZs economy from the major markets such as Europe but over time many more.

But hey let's keep the 10M cows in BZ belching and farting & even more damaging, pissing & crapping into our fresh water.

If the cap fits wear it, be it Redneck or Dinosaur.
I hope you don't have or grandchildren.

---

I hope you don't have or grandchildren.

———

Your comments are disgraceful, but I won’t wish ill upon you. But you have a cheek if you call yourself a Kiwi, because from where I sit you want to destroy farming in this country while turning a blind eye to China and its total disregard for the issue of global warming. China - the worlds biggest polluter - will keep increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years, and Daytr is absolutely fine with that.

China is driving the car off a cliff into the Grand Canyon. Daytr thinks that if he puts his seatbelt on in the back that it’ll stop the car from going over the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

I hope you don't have or grandchildren.

———

Your comments are disgraceful, but I won’t wish ill upon you. But you have a cheek if you call yourself a Kiwi, because from where I sit you want to destroy farming in this country while turning a blind eye to China and its total disregard for the issue of global warming. China - the worlds biggest polluter - will keep increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years, and Daytr is absolutely fine with that.

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It is disgusting what the left and the climate doom mongers are doing to our productive rural community. Hard working people who are being inundated with beauracracy and new laws ad infinitum. I personally know a few who are getting to being at wits end.

Our contribution to emissions (if you believe that malarky) is so miniscule it becomes irrelevant. We need to protect our productive sectors and the backbone of our small but many communities that make the fabric of this society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcap

It is disgusting what the left and the climate doom mongers are doing to our productive rural community. Hard working people who are being inundated with beauracracy and new laws ad infinitum. I personally know a few who are getting to being at wits end.

Our contribution to emissions (if you believe that malarky) is so miniscule it becomes irrelevant. We need to protect our productive sectors and the backbone of our small but many communities that make the fabric of this society.

---

Indeed - agree there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcap

It is disgusting what the left and the climate doom mongers are doing to our productive rural community. Hard working people who are being inundated with beauracracy and new laws ad infinitum. I personally know a few who are getting to being at wits end.

Our contribution to emissions (if you believe that malarky) is so miniscule it becomes irrelevant. We need to protect our productive sectors and the backbone of our small but many communities that make the fabric of this society.

---

You can certainly see how quickly the Left become unhinged when it comes to NZ farming. It starts off with ‘we must to our part to curb emissions’ but then as the discussion progressed, out came a vile rant about ‘cows crapping and pissing in our rivers’. Cow numbers are declining, farmers are fencing off waterways and doing riparian planting as fast as they can, but they will never get one iota of credit from the rabid Left.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

‘So over 200 countries individually have a small percentage of global emissions.

But accumlatively they add up to around 70% of emissions’

————

Factually incorrect:
China = 29.18% of global emissions
India = 7.09% of global emissions
USA = 14.02% global emissions
Russia = 4.65% of global emissions
Japan = 3.47% of global emissions
= 58.41%

NZ : “Duh, we are rich & we must do our part; we will hammer our farming sector which produces food”.

China : “Meh, we are still developing. Get back to us in 2030. We will keep increasing our coal production and keep opening steel mills to make steel to use in building empty ghost cities”.

---

Quite right I was taking data from the wrong column, however the point remains the same. Pressure cannot be applied to other countries without doing the right thing first.
The economic cost of not doing the right thing now will be far outweighed in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

You can certainly see how quickly the Left become unhinged when it comes to NZ farming. It starts off with ‘we must to our part to curb emissions’ but then as the discussion progressed, out came a vile rant about ‘cows crapping and pissing in our rivers’. Cow numbers are declining, farmers are fencing off waterways and doing riparian planting as fast as they can, but they will never get one iota of credit from the rabid Left.

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The number of dairy cows has decreased slightly from its peak but the number of beef cattle has increased by more.

Fencing off waterways was a good start and policy by the Government but you obviously don't understand how nitrates get into our fresh water and it's not just from cows being on a riverbank but leaching through the soil into water tables and also through runoff in heavy rain. The number of cows in NZ is unsustainable.

I'm not anti farming at all, just anti unsustainable farming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcap

It is disgusting what the left and the climate doom mongers are doing to our productive rural community. Hard working people who are being inundated with beauracracy and new laws ad infinitum. I personally know a few who are getting to being at wits end.

Our contribution to emissions (if you believe that malarky) is so miniscule it becomes irrelevant. We need to protect our productive sectors and the backbone of our small but many communities that make the fabric of this society.

---

You mean if you follow the science. It's no use discussing ACG with people who just don't want to accept the consequences of our actions.
I am far more concerned with our water quality than the emissions but by solving one it helps with the other.

Love farming, wanted to be one once upon a time & have plenty of friends who are farmers. We just have too many cattle.

China will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years.

Datyrs response: ‘yes, and we must also play our part by decreasing our emissions as well’.

Hang on Daytr, what do you not understand about the fact that the worlds biggest polluter will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years? The fact that they might be also ramping up wind and solar is like a serial killer sending a note to the police saying he will be ramping up the number of murders he is committing, but he will also attend more anger management classes.

Daytr can tell anyone he likes a fairytale about how the world will defeat global warming if NZ just ‘does its bit’, but it is just a fairytale.

So in 5 years time when we get another major flood and another devastating cyclone, stand by to be brow-beaten by Green politicians and the media that it’s all because ‘NZ didn’t cut its emissions fast enough’.

There is no dome over NZ!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

China will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years.

Datyrs response: ‘yes, and we must also play our part by decreasing our emissions as well’.

Hang on Daytr, what do you not understand about the fact that the worlds biggest polluter will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years? The fact that they might be also ramping up wind and solar is like a serial killer sending a note to the police saying he will be ramping up the number of murders he is committing, but he will also attend more anger management classes.

Daytr can tell anyone he likes a fairytale about how the world will defeat global warming if NZ just ‘does its bit’, but it is just a fairytale.

So in 5 years time when we get another major flood and another devastating cyclone, stand by to be brow-beaten by Green politicians and the media that it’s all because ‘NZ didn’t cut its emissions fast enough’.

There is no dome over NZ!

---

You have deliberately misquoted me.
I didn't say yes as you implied. I said we need to do our a bit and align ourselves with the likes of Europe that is doing their bit to pressure nations such as the China & US to change direction.

I also said for me it's far more about our water quality than our emissions. And by your posts this something you clearly have no understanding of. Riparian planting helps but is not the answer. Lack of saturation of soils with nitrates from fertilizer & effluent is and the best way to do that is reduce cow numbers and not have cattle in certain vulnerable landscapes that do not suit that sort of farming.

We didn't have these water quality issues throughout the country when we had 70M sheep I'm sure dairy regions weren't great but the farming back then was less intensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

China will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years.

Datyrs response: ‘yes, and we must also play our part by decreasing our emissions as well’.

Hang on Daytr, what do you not understand about the fact that the worlds biggest polluter will be increasing its emissions every year for the next 7 years? The fact that they might be also ramping up wind and solar is like a serial killer sending a note to the police saying he will be ramping up the number of murders he is committing, but he will also attend more anger management classes.

Daytr can tell anyone he likes a fairytale about how the world will defeat global warming if NZ just ‘does its bit’, but it is just a fairytale.

So in 5 years time when we get another major flood and another devastating cyclone, stand by to be brow-beaten by Green politicians and the media that it’s all because ‘NZ didn’t cut its emissions fast enough’.

There is no dome over NZ!

---

I think you're forgetting China has a population of 1.4 Billion people compared to NZ's tiny 5 million, so on a per capita basis China's emissions are not that much higher than NZ.
China is doing comparatively ok, the real culprits are countries like the US & Australia who are producing around twice the emissions of countries like China & NZ on a per capita basis.

Now if you think NZ's contribution is too insignificant for us to worry about adapting, what about cities with similar or smaller populations like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, Cape Town, Te Aviv, Milan, Athens, Rome, Montreal, Melbourne, Sydney, Shangsha, Changzou, etc by that logic you saying individually their contributions to the planets global emissions are also too small to worry about & they should all forget about reducing their emissions too.

If you make an exception for us you have to make an exception for all.

It's pointless saying but we produce all this food so we're a special case , others produce medicines, clothing, technology etc which we also depend on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Skies

I think you're forgetting China has a population of 1.4 Billion people compared to NZ's tiny 5 million, so on a per capita basis China's emissions are not that much higher than NZ.
China is doing comparatively ok, the real culprits are countries like the US & Australia who are producing around twice the emissions of countries like China & NZ on a per capita basis.

Now if you think NZ's contribution is too insignificant for us to worry about adapting, what about cities with similar or smaller populations like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, Cape Town, Te Aviv, Milan, Athens, Rome, Montreal, Melbourne, Sydney, Shangsha, Changzou, etc by that logic you saying individually their contributions to the planets global emissions are also too small to worry about & they should all forget about reducing their emissions too.

If you make an exception for us you have to make an exception for all.

It's pointless saying but we produce all this food so we're a special case , others produce medicines, clothing, technology etc which we also depend on.

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The Paris accord says we are a special case, due to our naughty farmers and agricultural and horticultural sectors producing food for 8x our population (40 million). So of course our Ag emissions will look high per capita. However our transport emissions are also high, but we are only transporting our locals plus some tourists. Hmm, who would be causing the bulk of those transport emissions I wonder? Not those naughty townies surely?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonu

The Paris accord says we are a special case, due to our naughty farmers and agricultural and horticultural sectors producing food for 8x our population (40 million). So of course our Ag emissions will look high per capita. However our transport emissions are also high, but we are only transporting our locals plus some tourists. Hmm, who would be causing the bulk of those transport emissions I wonder? Not those naughty townies surely?

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So I assume you support the EV subsidy which is helping reduce those transport emissions?
And the electrification of public transport which in some cities is making huge advances?
But transport isn't just cars of course & the entire energy sector which includes transport, produces less emissions than agriculture, which is 50% of our total gross emissions.

And you are OK for our water quality to continue to deteriorate?

So most of the country is making incremental changes and challenging changes but farming can't do the right thing by our fresh water quality and emissions by reducing cow numbers.

I know you aren't one to follow science so I wouldn't expect any rational response.

You have some wierd people on the right waging a war on cycle and bus lanes.

Footpaths will be next as in America where you can't even be a pedestrian safely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Skies

I think you're forgetting China has a population of 1.4 Billion people compared to NZ's tiny 5 million, so on a per capita basis China's emissions are not that much higher than NZ.
China is doing comparatively ok, the real culprits are countries like the US & Australia who are producing around twice the emissions of countries like China & NZ on a per capita basis.

Now if you think NZ's contribution is too insignificant for us to worry about adapting, what about cities with similar or smaller populations like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, Cape Town, Te Aviv, Milan, Athens, Rome, Montreal, Melbourne, Sydney, Shangsha, Changzou, etc by that logic you saying individually their contributions to the planets global emissions are also too small to worry about & they should all forget about reducing their emissions too.

If you make an exception for us you have to make an exception for all.

It's pointless saying but we produce all this food so we're a special case , others produce medicines, clothing, technology etc which we also depend on.

---

I forget nothing. China is responsible for almost 30% of global emissions and has thumbed its nose at the idea of reducing its emissions; rather than reducing its emissions it will be increasing them every year for the next 7 years, and then we have to hope they will start reducing them from 2030 onwards. Meantime the world will broil in its own juices.
So when you are being battered by an intense cyclone in the year 2028 just make sure you don’t blame hardworking NZ farmers: there is no dome over New Zealand!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

I forget nothing. China is responsible for almost 30% of global emissions and has thumbed its nose at the idea of reducing its emissions; rather than reducing its emissions it will be increasing them every year for the next 7 years, and then we have to hope they will start reducing them from 2030 onwards. Meantime the world will broil in its own juices.
So when you are being battered by an intense cyclone in the year 2028 just make sure you don’t blame hardworking NZ farmers: there is no dome over New Zealand!

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Everyone not doing their part shares the blame be it in China or NZ or any oars of the world including a quite a few dinosaurs on here. At least your leader has a Tesla.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Everyone not doing their part shares the blame be it in China or NZ or any oars of the world including a quite a few dinosaurs on here. At least your leader has a Tesla.

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If you think China can increase its emissions year on year until 2030 and we will also avert climate change, you are welcome to your view.
There are some big numbers involved: China will burn over 2.3 billion tonnes of coal this year and produce over 1 billion tonnes of steel. Maybe your mind cannot comprehend the size of the problem.

In the meantime, NZ cutting its 0.17% of global emissions may make you feel happy - but it will make absolutely no difference whatsoever to what transpires.

I see a lot of flack against China's pollution. We know it's bad there but i'm confident in the next 20 or 40 years, they will clean up their act. The country today selling the most # of EVs in the world. Largest hydro power station in the world. For the amount of people living there, they are trying to address the issue. Fact being, if there's considerable growth in a country, there's no way you're going to reduce carbon emissions.

I do believe NZ should do it's own part on carbon reduction for Climate Change. But voting for the Greens will be a definite way to run the country in the ground as we lack economic diversity. Agriculture or farming is our main industry. Our tourism industry has been wiped out. There's not a lot of things NZ shines on that can carry us through. Sadly, as prices continue to rise (along with rising building costs / regulations etc.) the net result will always be a lower standard of living.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBQ

I see a lot of flack against China's pollution. We know it's bad there but i'm confident in the next 20 or 40 years, they will clean up their act. The country today selling the most # of EVs in the world. Largest hydro power station in the world. For the amount of people living there, they are trying to address the issue. Fact being, if there's considerable growth in a country, there's no way you're going to reduce carbon emissions.

I do believe NZ should do it's own part on carbon reduction for Climate Change. But voting for the Greens will be a definite way to run the country in the ground as we lack economic diversity. Agriculture or farming is our main industry. Our tourism industry has been wiped out. There's not a lot of things NZ shines on that can carry us through. Sadly, as prices continue to rise (along with rising building costs / regulations etc.) the net result will always be a lower standard of living.

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Yep totally agree. I'm certainly not advocating voting Green as unfortunately they let themselves down in many other policy areas. However in a coalition most of their extreme policies won't see the light of day thank goodness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Yep totally agree. I'm certainly not advocating voting Green as unfortunately they let themselves down in many other policy areas. However in a coalition most of their extreme policies won't see the light of day thank goodness.

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Does it make you wonder how frustrating that must be, for the minor parties who under MMP get a seat or few at the table under a coalition government but still have little or no power to put into effect their policies? It is a the same for the left as it is for the right.

MMP is imo a seriously flawed voting system, it has done no good for the country and led to unprecedented distortions in political influence of governments (the 'king makers' for example), while essentially wasting the votes of the populous who party vote for anything other than the mainstream right or left party's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baa_Baa

MMP is imo a seriously flawed voting system, it has done no good for the country and led to unprecedented distortions in political influence of governments (the 'king makers' for example), while essentially wasting the votes of the populous who party vote for anything other than the mainstream right or left party's.

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As I remember, there was widespread dissatisfaction with the two party system from the early 60s. I can recall lots of people beliving that Social Credit got a rough deal from the system along with the substantial proportion of the population who voted for them. The pressure for a proportional system was hugely increased by the disaster of Rogernomics, and even though proposals in support of change were largely couched in terms of fairness and representation of disparate interests, many people supported MMP to provide "some check on the bastards to make sure no little group of them ever gets to take over again".

As a senior Public Servant in the 90s, I suffered (and generally tried to work around) some of the sillier ideas that the NZF imposed on it's National partner, but I still think NZ would now be better off if it had managed to prevent the extention of Rogernomics that we suffered as Ruthenasia.

MMP dilutes and distributes power. It was meant to.That stops some good things from happening, or slows them down. That is a shame, but IMO it is a price worth paying if it also reduces the chance that a group of ideologues will be able to effectively sieze power and ram through extreme and damaging policies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davflaws

As I remember, there was widespread dissatisfaction with the two party system from the early 60s. I can recall lots of people beliving that Social Credit got a rough deal from the system along with the substantial proportion of the population who voted for them. The pressure for a proportional system was hugely increased by the disaster of Rogernomics, and even though proposals in support of change were largely couched in terms of fairness and representation of disparate interests, many people supported MMP to provide "some check on the bastards to make sure no little group of them ever gets to take over again".

As a senior Public Servant in the 90s, I suffered (and generally tried to work around) some of the sillier ideas that the NZF imposed on it's National partner, but I still think NZ would now be better off if it had managed to prevent the extention of Rogernomics that we suffered as Ruthenasia.

MMP dilutes and distributes power. It was meant to.That stops some good things from happening, or slows them down. That is a shame, but IMO it is a price worth paying if it also reduces the chance that a group of ideologues will be able to effectively sieze power and ram through extreme and damaging policies.

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Some good points there davflaws. This Labour government, being the first since to have an absolute majority highlights what I have placed in BOLD in your quote.

Perversely, under MMP you get the opposite with a tiny minority acting as Kingmaker, eg, Winston in 2017 or potentially Te Pati Maori this year, who can have a disproportionate influence.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/greens-launch-maori-land-policy-hoki-whenua-mai-vows-to-return-stolen-land-revisit-claims-and-redress/IH4JRCB53BFAZD2VAJA2GUH774/

"Mana whenua would be given right of first refusal over any land deemed to have been wrongfully alienated, and the Waitangi Tribunal powers restored to make recommendations, including private land."

hmmmm

Amazing that Daytr can say that in a Left wing coalition the Greens most extreme policies won’t be adopted. Labour caved in to Winnie in 2017 with a massive slush fund for a regional spend-up at Shane Jones’ discretion, but we are expected to believe that a Labour dependent on the Greens and Te Pati Maori will not cave into them….so the radical Greens and Te Pati Maori will happily go into government and get virtually nothing in return(?) Really?

Just about everything in the Greens and Te Pati Maori platforms are radical policies that don’t appeal to mainstream voters, and they are getting more extreme by the day. Yet apparently Labour will be able to tell them ‘no’ when it comes to adopting these policies, and will go and sit on the opposition benches if need be. That is not the Labour I know. Moreover, the Maori caucus within Labour would be more than happy to implement radical policies that pertain to maori, while the Robertson / Parker faction are itching to implement wealth taxes and a CGT.

What all this means is that voters are expected to trust that one man - Chris Hipkins - will be able to deftly preside over the whole emerging circus, and contain his radical coalition partners and a disgruntled faction within his own cabinet and caucus.
But will Hipkins even want to constrain any of these groups if he finds himself heading a government at the start of a fresh 3 year term? ‘Just trust him’, is that the message? Sure, trust him now when he wants your vote; after the election when he has power within his grasp all bets will be off.

New Zealand is on a dangerous precipice going into this election, where the most radical government in this nations history could be elected and utterly destroy racial harmony and living standards within a short span of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davflaws

As I remember, there was widespread dissatisfaction with the two party system from the early 60s. I can recall lots of people beliving that Social Credit got a rough deal from the system along with the substantial proportion of the population who voted for them. The pressure for a proportional system was hugely increased by the disaster of Rogernomics, and even though proposals in support of change were largely couched in terms of fairness and representation of disparate interests, many people supported MMP to provide "some check on the bastards to make sure no little group of them ever gets to take over again".

As a senior Public Servant in the 90s, I suffered (and generally tried to work around) some of the sillier ideas that the NZF imposed on it's National partner, but I still think NZ would now be better off if it had managed to prevent the extention of Rogernomics that we suffered as Ruthenasia.

MMP dilutes and distributes power. It was meant to.That stops some good things from happening, or slows them down. That is a shame, but IMO it is a price worth paying if it also reduces the chance that a group of ideologues will be able to effectively sieze power and ram through extreme and damaging policies.

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We need to look at the UK which has the electoral system NZ used to have. Last UK election (2019) The Conservatives got 42% of the vote but a landslide number of MPs. They then stuffed the UK’s trade and economy by taking it on a damaging hard Brexit. Prior to that election, many hard right UKIP party members switched membership to the conservatives and helped deselect moderate Conservative MPs and candidates. Luckily NZ has slightly more of a safeguard than the UK against such extreme government based on a minority of voters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by causecelebre

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/greens-launch-maori-land-policy-hoki-whenua-mai-vows-to-return-stolen-land-revisit-claims-and-redress/IH4JRCB53BFAZD2VAJA2GUH774/

"Mana whenua would be given right of first refusal over any land deemed to have been wrongfully alienated, and the Waitangi Tribunal powers restored to make recommendations, including private land."

hmmmm

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Who is paying ? ;)

Show us the Money :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Amazing that Daytr can say that in a Left wing coalition the Greens most extreme policies won’t be adopted. Labour caved in to Winnie in 2017 with a massive slush fund for a regional spend-up at Shane Jones’ discretion, but we are expected to believe that a Labour dependent on the Greens and Te Pati Maori will not cave into them….so the radical Greens and Te Pati Maori will happily go into government and get virtually nothing in return(?) Really?

Just about everything in the Greens and Te Pati Maori platforms are radical policies that don’t appeal to mainstream voters, and they are getting more extreme by the day. Yet apparently Labour will be able to tell them ‘no’ when it comes to adopting these policies, and will go and sit on the opposition benches if need be. That is not the Labour I know. Moreover, the Maori caucus within Labour would be more than happy to implement radical policies that pertain to maori, while the Robertson / Parker faction are itching to implement wealth taxes and a CGT.

What all this means is that voters are expected to trust that one man - Chris Hipkins - will be able to deftly preside over the whole emerging circus, and contain his radical coalition partners and a disgruntled faction within his own cabinet and caucus.
But will Hipkins even want to constrain any of these groups if he finds himself heading a government at the start of a fresh 3 year term? ‘Just trust him’, is that the message? Sure, trust him now when he wants your vote; after the election when he has power within his grasp all beats will be off.

New Zealand is on a dangerous precipice going into this election, where the most radical government in this nations history could be elected and utterly destroy racial harmony and living standards within a short span of time.

---

The hijacked Labour cause is likely to be the weakest Link, willing to prostitute itself for .. more of the same
which on recent results will be very little achieved at huge cost, while the splinter factions continue playing their games :)

How are ordinary Kiwi's faring under this regime purportedly for all, while this ludicrous defacto game for power
control goes on under the leadership of a Puppet clown ? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Amazing that Daytr can say that in a Left wing coalition the Greens most extreme policies won’t be adopted. Labour caved in to Winnie in 2017 with a massive slush fund for a regional spend-up at Shane Jones’ discretion, but we are expected to believe that a Labour dependent on the Greens and Te Pati Maori will not cave into them….so the radical Greens and Te Pati Maori will happily go into government and get virtually nothing in return(?) Really?

Just about everything in the Greens and Te Pati Maori platforms are radical policies that don’t appeal to mainstream voters, and they are getting more extreme by the day. Yet apparently Labour will be able to tell them ‘no’ when it comes to adopting these policies, and will go and sit on the opposition benches if need be. That is not the Labour I know. Moreover, the Maori caucus within Labour would be more than happy to implement radical policies that pertain to maori, while the Robertson / Parker faction are itching to implement wealth taxes and a CGT.

What all this means is that voters are expected to trust that one man - Chris Hipkins - will be able to deftly preside over the whole emerging circus, and contain his radical coalition partners and a disgruntled faction within his own cabinet and caucus.
But will Hipkins even want to constrain any of these groups if he finds himself heading a government at the start of a fresh 3 year term? ‘Just trust him’, is that the message? Sure, trust him now when he wants your vote; after the election when he has power within his grasp all beats will be off.

New Zealand is on a dangerous precipice going into this election, where the most radical government in this nations history could be elected and utterly destroy racial harmony and living standards within a short span of time.

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Yes and the Green's were left out of cabinet.
The Green's aren't NZF.
But what's good for the goose ....

ACT if elected in a coalition will have 1/3rd of the votes on current polling, probably more as ACT is rising, whilst National is falling.
Be scared, be very scared if ACT get a seat at the greedy table.
Seymour will run political rings around Luxon.
The child National raised has turned into a monster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nztx

Who is paying ? ;)

Show us the Money :)

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Well all us TAXPAYERS ... the Greenies are just getting loonier by the month ...shows how much money is behind the radical Maori groups ... pumping plenty into the GREENS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Be scared, be very scared if ACT get a seat at the greedy table.
Seymour will run political rings around Luxon.
The child National raised has turned into a monster.

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What's actually wrong with Seymour?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entrep

What's actually wrong with Seymour?

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Nothing wrong but he is very scary to the Labour wokesters like Daytr because Seymour is a Maori who articulates common sense policies for ALL NZers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBmurc

Well all us TAXPAYERS ... the Greenies are just getting loonier by the month ...shows how much money is behind the radical Maori groups ... pumping plenty into the GREENS

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That’s one thing I hadn’t considered: the amount of political influence the $70 billion maori economy can buy.

Green politics is a trojan horse for the extreme Left and the radical politics of Marama Davidson.
Vote Green to purportedly ‘save the planet from climate change’ and you’ll instead get a re-opening of all ‘Te Tiriti’ grievances and we start the process all over again from scratch with a horribly divided country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entrep

What's actually wrong with Seymour?

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Expect lots of knee-jerk stuff about ‘neoliberalism’.

Seymour wants to get tough on crime. Labourites will tell you this is ‘very bad’ and in any case ‘won’t work’. Now it turns out that Chipkins wants to sing from the same song sheet, but Labourites won’t bat an eyelid at that about face.

From a Labour insider :

“Internal polling is showing a loss of Maori votes due to Hipkins’ attempt to shut down the Maori noise in caucus leading to the October election.’

The Maori Party & Greens are obviously taking the opportunity to try & increase their share of the Maori votes. And if the polls are any indication, succeeding.

Labour under Hipkins looks like it is outflanked on both sides and heading for electoral disaster.

https://liberation.typepad.com/.a/6a...fd1f970d-800wi

Can we get this guy back in Greens?

Attachment 14680

At least he stood for their namesake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entrep

Can we get this guy back in Greens?

Attachment 14680

At least he stood for their namesake

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I think the genuine ‘save the planet’ people have been driven out. Now it’s wall to wall radicals and a misguided weirdo in a suit in James Shaw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entrep

What's actually wrong with Seymour?

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His party stands for every person for themselves. NZ used to have communal values where we knew we had a responsibility to ensure people were looked after and could afford a roof over their heads and food on the table. It's neoliberalism on steroids.

Both of the last two Governments, National & Labour have let these things slip dramatically. However the last 2 - 3 years has been driven by a global event that has impacted all countries.

Under ACT we won't have the tax revenue to fund health, education, policing. You name it, every Government function will be under funded under ACT. Their tax policy is lunacy and will bankrupt the Government.

All it will do is let the already wealthy get richer and they can afford private health etc so they don't care about social services. National left hospitals & schools to rot, they under funded road maintenance and we are now seeing the results.

Unfortunately we are bereft of good sound political leadership in NZ on either side of the political fence.

I was waiting for the cliched cry of ‘neoliberalism!’ and there it is…in fact, it's ‘on steroids’ in Daytrs fevered imagination. Apparently we will have a society where its ‘everyone for themselves’ and there will be no money for health or education. Turn it up, I’d expect this kind of scaremongering from a marxist pamphlet, not from a neutral.

Imagine a society where it’s ‘everyone for themselves’, where Iwi try to capture as much treasure from ‘The Crown’ as they can & look to go their own way, where desperate citizens battle criminal gangs and ram raiders while police look to enforce the law ‘by consent’, where hospital bureaucracy and reforms swallow billions while waiting lists lengthen, where our credit rating is threatened by a finance minister addicted to borrowing and spending….hey, that’s the country / society Labour have already created!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

His party stands for every person for themselves. NZ used to have communal values where we knew we had a responsibility to ensure people were looked after and could afford a roof over their heads and food on the table. It's neoliberalism on steroids.

Both of the last two Governments, National & Labour have let these things slip dramatically. However the last 2 - 3 years has been driven by a global event that has impacted all countries.

Under ACT we won't have the tax revenue to fund health, education, policing. You name it, every Government function will be under funded under ACT. Their tax policy is lunacy and will bankrupt the Government.

All it will do is let the already wealthy get richer and they can afford private health etc so they don't care about social services. National left hospitals & schools to rot, they under funded road maintenance and we are now seeing the results.

Unfortunately we are bereft of good sound political leadership in NZ on either side of yhe political fence.

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National left hospitals & schools to rot, they under funded road maintenance and we are now seeing the results.

————

Garbage. Just stale and tired Labour party propaganda. After 6 years you are still blaming National for all Labours SNAFU’s. Labour and the Greens harshly criticised National for spending money on roads btw…it was bad for the climate or something. (What will the electric cars drive on if we don’t have good roads?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

National left hospitals & schools to rot, they under funded road maintenance and we are now seeing the results.

————

Garbage. Just stale and tired Labour party propaganda. After 6 years you are still blaming National for all Labours SNAFU’s. Labour and the Greens harshly criticised National for spending money on roads btw…it was bad for the climate or something. (What will the electric cars drive on if we don’t have good roads?)

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Complete denial of the facts.
The one of the biggest differences on here and it will be apparent to anyone who has an open mind is I accept Labour have been poor & very poor in some areas but they have also achieved some traction in others.

Whereas the right wing trolls on here are completely unbalanced & one eyed.
They give no credit where it is due, ever.

You are just propaganda machines for the Nats or ACT.
I wish Luxon had a spine, I wish he cared about the environment, but it's obvious he is in it for the power & legacy the prime ministership provides. Sad, sad times for NZ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Complete denial of the facts.
The one of the biggest differences on here and it will be apparent to anyone who has an open mind is I accept Labour have been poor & very poor in some areas but they have also achieved some traction in others.

Whereas the right wing trolls on here are completely unbalanced & one eyed.
They give no credit where it is due, ever.

You are just propaganda machines for the Nats or ACT.
I wish Luxon had a spine, I wish he cared about the environment, but it's obvious he is in it for the power & legacy the prime ministership provides. Sad, sad times for NZ.

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You’re the one talking rot about ‘left schools to rot’. Where? Provide an example? And what responsibility would you assign to the school board, caretaker, Ministry of Education for such purported ‘rot’? Everyone else is apparently a propagandist except you, and yet here you are regurgitating the most hackneyed Labour talking points.

Labour have ‘achieved some traction’(?)
Really?
With what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Complete denial of the facts.
The one of the biggest differences on here and it will be apparent to anyone who has an open mind is I accept Labour have been poor & very poor in some areas but they have also achieved some traction in others.

Whereas the right wing trolls on here are completely unbalanced & one eyed.
They give no credit where it is due, ever.

You are just propaganda machines for the Nats or ACT.
I wish Luxon had a spine, I wish he cared about the environment, but it's obvious he is in it for the power & legacy the prime ministership provides. Sad, sad times for NZ.

---

12,000 new state houses built by Labour?

350% increase in state housing waiting list is the real truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Complete denial of the facts.
The one of the biggest differences on here and it will be apparent to anyone who has an open mind is I accept Labour have been poor & very poor in some areas but they have also achieved some traction in others.

Whereas the right wing trolls on here are completely unbalanced & one eyed.
They give no credit where it is due, ever.

You are just propaganda machines for the Nats or ACT.
I wish Luxon had a spine, I wish he cared about the environment, but it's obvious he is in it for the power & legacy the prime ministership provides. Sad, sad times for NZ.

---

‘I wish Luxon had a spine, I wish he cared about the environment’

———

So you’ll be voting for that purported environmentalist party ‘The Greens’ then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

You’re the one talking rot about ‘left schools to rot’. Where? Provide an example? And what responsibility would you assign to the school board, caretaker, Ministry of Education for such purported ‘rot’? Everyone else is apparently a propagandist except you, and yet here you are regurgitating the most hackneyed Labour talking points.

Labour have ‘achieved some traction’(?)
Really?
With what?

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Straight off the bat, Northland College. There are plenty of others.
Hospitals left to rot, Middlemore, Whangarei, Starship & Auckland Women's and they are just the ones I am aware of without any digging.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/10/starship-hospital-no-longer-fit-for-purpose-new-dhb-report-reveals.html

Nice try re caretakers. What BS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Straight off the bat, Northland College. There are plenty of others.
Hospitals left to rot, Middlemore, Whangarei, Starship & Auckland Women's and they are just the ones I am aware of without any digging.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...t-reveals.html

Nice try re caretakers. What BS.

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Same garbage as :

12,000 new state houses built by Labour?

350% increase in state housing waiting list is the real truth.

Here's another school left to rot, Hutt Valley

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...lassrooms.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

I was waiting for the cliched cry of ‘neoliberalism!’ and there it is…in fact, it's ‘on steroids’ in Daytrs fevered imagination. Apparently we will have a society where its ‘everyone for themselves’ and there will be no money for health or education. Turn it up, I’d expect this kind of scaremongering from a marxist pamphlet, not from a neutral.

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Simply look at the Act alternative budget.

It's a disgraceful attack on the elderly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Straight off the bat, Northland College. There are plenty of others.
Hospitals left to rot, Middlemore, Whangarei, Starship & Auckland Women's and they are just the ones I am aware of without any digging.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...t-reveals.html

Nice try re caretakers. What BS.

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Northland College, but where is the bit about it being ‘all Nationals fault’?

So a poor and disingenuous example ‘right off the bat’.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/northl...JOGAGHBBP7E4Y/

Northland College students stuck with 'worst classrooms in New Zealand'

By Kirsty Johnston
2 Jun, 2015 05:00 AM

‘The buildings have long been an issue at the 280-student school, which has also had struggles with governance, attendance and achievement. Previous boards failed to maintain the classrooms - while at the same time funding a new administration block - leading to their run-down state.

Now under a commissioner, the school is trying to get new classrooms signed off by the Ministry of Education. The head of the ministry's Education Infrastructure Service, Kim Shannon, said it was working closely with the school and had provided $1.5 million for urgent works.

"It's important that we take the necessary time to ensure the best outcome for the school," she said.

"Extensive planning work is being undertaken to ensure that the school has buildings which are healthy and comfortable, and meet the students' needs."

"It's not the ministry's fault. The school has got this way because of mismanagement. But that's not these kids' fault either,"’ principal Jim Luders said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Here's another school left to rot, Hutt Valley

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...lassrooms.html

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The ‘rot’ is coming from you at the moment. In 2018 ‘officials say the school "has been well maintained, is in good shape and commended the board for that", according to board minutes.’ Directly contradicting your assertions!

Moreover, you’ve posted an article about a school from 2021, when Labour had been in power for 4 years.

From the timeline -

2017: The replacement of C block is estimated to cost $11.7m.

2018: In June, the school and ministry discuss roofing problems. The school warns the $90,000 budgeted to fix five roofs "is likely to be woefully unrepresentative of actual costs". The school reluctantly agrees to pay to fix the roofs, but later the ministry agrees to. Officials say the school "has been well maintained, is in good shape and commended the board for that", according to board minutes.

2019: In July, the roof report costs replacing 90 percent of the roofs at $6m, versus ministry calculations that provide $2.2m for property capital works and upgrades for 2020-25. The roof report recommends air testing in 10 classroom blocks and both gyms because "longstanding" leaks present the risk of mould. The school gives the ministry the report to coincide with the five-year planning, but air testing does not take place. (The school and ministry have overlapping duties under health and safety laws to students and staff.)

2020: In July, the ministry moves to plug a budget blow-out on rebuilding the burnout tech block by raiding the 2020-25 property fund of $2.2m, for $1.8m. The school resists, fearing this will "leave other projects held up". It finally accedes, partly as it thinks the leaking roofs will get funded from elsewhere. The ministry acknowledges its communications have been "shoddy" and it has "not kept the school in the loop", according to board minutes. In November, consultants working on the 10-year property funding plan say C block is core but money keeps getting "diverted" to other priorities. They foresee repairing the block's roof in 2021.

2021: In March, the school, off its own bat, calls in air testers and finds mould in C block. Later tests find more mould in other blocks. In May, the school and ministry sit down with same architect who did the 2016 master plan, to revive the plan. At the school hall meeting, former board member Chris Nicholls tells families: "We commissioned the report. The ministry weren't interested." Ministry officials promise to "learn as much as possible from this".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

The ‘rot’ is coming from you at the moment. An article about a school from 2021, when Labour had been in power for 4 years.

From the timeline -

2017: The replacement of C block is estimated to cost $11.7m.

2018: In June, the school and ministry discuss roofing problems. The school warns the $90,000 budgeted to fix five roofs "is likely to be woefully unrepresentative of actual costs". The school reluctantly agrees to pay to fix the roofs, but later the ministry agrees to. Officials say the school "has been well maintained, is in good shape and commended the board for that", according to board minutes.

2019: In July, the roof report costs replacing 90 percent of the roofs at $6m, versus ministry calculations that provide $2.2m for property capital works and upgrades for 2020-25. The roof report recommends air testing in 10 classroom blocks and both gyms because "longstanding" leaks present the risk of mould. The school gives the ministry the report to coincide with the five-year planning, but air testing does not take place. (The school and ministry have overlapping duties under health and safety laws to students and staff.)

2020: In July, the ministry moves to plug a budget blow-out on rebuilding the burnout tech block by raiding the 2020-25 property fund of $2.2m, for $1.8m. The school resists, fearing this will "leave other projects held up". It finally accedes, partly as it thinks the leaking roofs will get funded from elsewhere. The ministry acknowledges its communications have been "shoddy" and it has "not kept the school in the loop", according to board minutes. In November, consultants working on the 10-year property funding plan say C block is core but money keeps getting "diverted" to other priorities. They foresee repairing the block's roof in 2021.

2021: In March, the school, off its own bat, calls in air testers and finds mould in C block. Later tests find more mould in other blocks. In May, the school and ministry sit down with same architect who did the 2016 master plan, to revive the plan. At the school hall meeting, former board member Chris Nicholls tells families: "We commissioned the report. The ministry weren't interested." Ministry officials promise to "learn as much as possible from this".

---

Are you that biased that you deliberately missed out the start of the timeline in 2015 at by which time National had been in power over six years. Where is your integrity!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Are you that biased that you deliberately missed out the following. Where is your integrity!

---

The only person who is biased around here is you. Desperately hunting down stories to ‘prove’ that National ‘left schools to rot’ and coming up empty! You’ve been brainwashed by Labour talking points.

I wonder If dave will start doing sympathy tours to sell chris luxon to the public.

Come on, help this guy out here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Are you that biased that you deliberately missed out the start of the timeline in 2015 at by which time National had been in power over six years. Where is your integrity!

---

From the article you posted -
2018 : ‘officials say the school "has been well maintained, is in good shape and commended the board for that", according to board minutes.’

A slam dunk!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda-NZ-

I wonder If dave will start doing sympathy tours to sell chris luxon to the public.

Come on, help this guy out here.

---

How on earth can he compete with the charisma of ‘used ventriloquists dummy’ Chipkins?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

From the article you posted -
2018 : ‘officials say the school "has been well maintained, is in good shape and commended the board for that", according to board minutes.’

A slam dunk!

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Blocked! Again you are disingenuous with your reply deliberately not selecting the start of the time line in 2015.

• 2015: In October, the board tells the ministry its five-year property funding model is "not adequate to arrest the decline of ministry assets leased by the board". The board opts to raise the annual donation noting it had "no choice but to increase the financial burden on parents as the ministry does not fund the school sufficiently under the current regime, notwithstanding that students are legally entitled to a free education".

And what about those hospitals eh? Just ignoring the hundreds of millions that have had to be spent just to make the buildings workable again.
Your disgraceful attempt to hide the full story just reinforces your lack of integrity and credibility.

And an even more damning report on the state of schools surveyed in 2018. And before you its caretakers fault or principles fault they are part of the ministry and had to make tough choices due to lack of funding.

Third of school buildings fall short on health and hygiene | RNZ News

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Blocked! Again you are disingenuous with your reply deliberately not selecting the start of the time line in 2015.

• 2015: In October, the board tells the ministry its five-year property funding model is "not adequate to arrest the decline of ministry assets leased by the board". The board opts to raise the annual donation noting it had "no choice but to increase the financial burden on parents as the ministry does not fund the school sufficiently under the current regime, notwithstanding that students are legally entitled to a free education".

And what about those hospitals eh? Just ignoring the hundreds of millions that have had to be spent just to make the buildings workable again.
Your disgraceful attempt to hide the full story just reinforces your lack of integrity and credibility.

---

I high-lighted the years and years of the saga that were taking place under Labours purview. Then you got hysterical that I had ‘hidden’ something. Strange.
The two examples you produced as evidence that National ‘left schools to rot’ actually showed nothing of the sort. You should be ashamed of yourself, spreading blatant Labour propaganda with no regard for truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

I high-lighted the years and years of the saga that were taking place under Labours purview. Then you got hysterical that I had ‘hidden’ something. Strange.
The two examples you produced as evidence that National ‘left schools to rot’ actually showed nothing of the sort. You should be ashamed of yourself, spreading blatant Labour propaganda with no regard for truth.

---

It's ok - Daytr is the very same Labour wokester who proudly proclaimed that under Labour, 12,000 new state houses were built. Then he did somersaults, flips and spins to pretend he never meant that.

Such a loser but that's how Ardern & Hipkins love them - indoctrinated regurgitators. :t_up:

Let's just ignore the trail of rotten hospitals that National left behind shall we.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Let's just ignore the trail of rotten hospitals that National left behind shall we.

---

Likely be the trail of rotten hospitals that Labour left behind soon, while trying to play build empires
and ignoring how things were managing ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daytr

Let's just ignore the trail of rotten hospitals that National left behind shall we.

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Who was responsible again?

The Labour government that was in power in 2000?

Manukau DHB?

Hawkins Construction?

David Clark?

You tell me.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/healt...buildings.html

Manukau DHB slammed for slow progress on rotting Middlemore Hospital buildings

22/03/2018

‘The Health Minister is demanding answers from the Counties Manukau District Health Board (DHB) after it failed to tell him about hospital buildings filled with rot and fungus.

Four buildings at Middlemore Hospital are facing bacteria or cladding issues.

The Kidz First building is one of the affected ones. Built in the year 2000, its exterior walls are now full of fungus and bacteria.

"I'm really shocked by it," said Manukau ward councillor Efeso Collins.

"We're sending sick kids from damp houses in south Auckland to a damp hospital - they're not going to be well there."

Kidz First is not the only the building to cause concern - the Manukau Superclinic has bacteria, fungus and rot in the walls. It's a similar story in the McIndoe building, while the Scott building has sub-standard cladding.

It's a problem the DHB has known about for years.

"They knew about the Scott building in 2012 and then there was more information that came to hand in 2015," Mr Collins said.

"To wait until 2018 to get active and finally do something about it and have no information out to the public is just not acceptable from the DHB."

Not even the Health Minister knew the extent of the problem.

"I'm going to have a frank conversation with the acting chair today to see what he has to say," David Clark said.

"I'm a little disappointed other building issues weren't raised with me when I was there."

The buildings were constructed at the height of the leaky building crisis. It is now known the DHB took the builder - Hawkins Construction - to court in 2012. They settled for an undisclosed amount.

Officials say repairs are now being prioritised, but stress the buildings will remain open.

The Counties Manukau DHB says the fungal growth presents no safety risk because it's in the walls. It says there's a barrier between where repair works are carried out and where the patients are.

This afternoon the Health Minister announced $11 million in funding to fix the Scott building, the one building he knew had problems.

He's made it clear the DHB is now on notice as it faces a repair bill in the tens of millions of dollars.‘

The Helen Clark government lost power in 2008.

Can you see hen these new facilities at Middlemore Hospital were built Daytr?

—————

New Clinical Services Block (Harley Gray Building)
—
A new five-storey clinical services block was formally opened in April 2014 at a cost of NZ$190 million. This includes: 14 new operating theatres, a 38-cot neonatal care unit, a 42-bed medical assessment unit, a 23-bed post-anaesthetic care unit, a 20-bed theatre admission and discharge unit, and a state-of-the-art central sterile supply department. The building was named after orthopaedic surgeon Harley Gray who was an orthopaedic surgeon at Middlemore until 2001 and was made a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit in 2003.

Ko Awatea
—
The Ko Awatea Centre was built in 2011 at a cost of NZ$10 million with a mandate to lead an innovative approach to achieving sustainable, high-quality healthcare services. It was designed to be a hub of education, improvement and innovation to support health systems and public services – foremost to support Counties Manukau Health, but also locally, nationally and internationally. Ko Awatea is also a centre of education dedicated to meeting the needs of students, CMH staff and visitors through education, leadership and professional development. The name, Ko Awatea, means ‘first light'. The name was gifted from tangata whenua, indicative of the value that Maori place on Ko Awatea and its role in CMH.

Edmund Hillary Block
—
The Edmund Hillary Block is a six-storey in-patient building built in 2009 that added 240 in-patient beds, and 12,600m2 of space to the Middlemore Campus. It included: a 15-bed mental health services for older people ward, a 30 -bed plastics ward, 2 x 30 – bed surgical wards, 2 x 30 – bed medical wards, a 30-bed gastroenterology ward, a cardiac investigation unit, a medical short stay unit, a haematology day ward and clinic, allied health offices and gymnasium, a new staff cafeteria, and the clinical equipment pool and orthotics.

When you give directives to already cash strapped DHB's to save money there are going to be unintended issues.

Yet logan opposes the Health NZ reforms too, simply because labour did it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda-NZ-

When you give directives to already cash strapped DHB's to save money there are going to be unintended issues.

Yet logan opposes the Health NZ reforms too, simply because labour did it.

---

You obviously can’t read, can’t comprehend the actual facts. You prefer Left wing fantasies to reality. .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Who was responsible again?

The Labour government that was in power in 2000?

Manukau DHB?

Hawkins Construction?

David Clark?

You tell me.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/healt...buildings.html

Manukau DHB slammed for slow progress on rotting Middlemore Hospital buildings

22/03/2018

‘The Health Minister is demanding answers from the Counties Manukau District Health Board (DHB) after it failed to tell him about hospital buildings filled with rot and fungus.

Four buildings at Middlemore Hospital are facing bacteria or cladding issues.

The Kidz First building is one of the affected ones. Built in the year 2000, its exterior walls are now full of fungus and bacteria.

"I'm really shocked by it," said Manukau ward councillor Efeso Collins.

"We're sending sick kids from damp houses in south Auckland to a damp hospital - they're not going to be well there."

Kidz First is not the only the building to cause concern - the Manukau Superclinic has bacteria, fungus and rot in the walls. It's a similar story in the McIndoe building, while the Scott building has sub-standard cladding.

It's a problem the DHB has known about for years.

"They knew about the Scott building in 2012 and then there was more information that came to hand in 2015," Mr Collins said.

"To wait until 2018 to get active and finally do something about it and have no information out to the public is just not acceptable from the DHB."

Not even the Health Minister knew the extent of the problem.

"I'm going to have a frank conversation with the acting chair today to see what he has to say," David Clark said.

"I'm a little disappointed other building issues weren't raised with me when I was there."

The buildings were constructed at the height of the leaky building crisis. It is now known the DHB took the builder - Hawkins Construction - to court in 2012. They settled for an undisclosed amount.

Officials say repairs are now being prioritised, but stress the buildings will remain open.

The Counties Manukau DHB says the fungal growth presents no safety risk because it's in the walls. It says there's a barrier between where repair works are carried out and where the patients are.

This afternoon the Health Minister announced $11 million in funding to fix the Scott building, the one building he knew had problems.

He's made it clear the DHB is now on notice as it faces a repair bill in the tens of millions of dollars.‘

---

Who was responsible for the changes in the building code that created one of the biggest liabilities NZ has ever faced?
The leaky building crisis.
An absolute disaster in inept policy change by the National Government that we are still paying for today.

The cost of the biggest cock up in NZ history is estimated between $23 - $47Bln!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daytr

Who was responsible for the changes in the building code that created one of the biggest liabilities NZ has ever faced?
The leaky building crisis.
An absolute disaster in inept policy change by the National Government that we are still paying for today.

The cost of the biggest cock up in NZ history is estimated between $23 - $47Bln!

---

The ‘neutral’ guy spends all his time defending his Labour mates. Unbelievable. The ‘rotten’ buildings at Middlemore were built under a Labour government, PM Helen Clark had no issue with the building code.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

The ‘neutral’ guy spends all his time defending his Labour mates. Unbelievable. The ‘rotten’ buildings at Middlemore were built under a Labour government, PM Helen Clark had no issue with the building code.

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Buildings need maintenance..

Just like the new requirement for healthy homes was brought in only after the shocking stuff came to light.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda-NZ-

Buildings need maintenance..

Just like the new requirement for healthy homes was brought in only after the shocking stuff came to light.

---

Leaky buildings. It was an actual thing. This is not about usual maintenance and up-keep. Don’t be so disingenuous.

But back to the tread title. An appropriate new name would be "Te Bob Mugabe Tribute Parti Party.