POLL : New poll - 2 weeks till the election CLOSED

OK, so we are two weeks out from the election. Please indicate which party you intend to give your PARTY vote to.

The last two polls returned pretty much the same results. It will be interesting to see if anything changes over the next two.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

OK, so we are two weeks out from the election. Please indicate which party you intend to give your PARTY vote to.

The last two polls returned pretty much the same results. It will be interesting to see if anything changes over the next two.

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Thanks JAK, this will be interesting. Week 4->3 did present movements in all the party's, that if a third poll continued the trend, would significantly change the outcome from just 2 weeks ago.

	4 weeks	3 weeks	4->3 +/-
National	21.43%	25.64%	4.21%
Labour	4.76%	2.56%	2.20%
ACT	40.48%	35.90%	4.58%
Greens	2.30%	7.69%	5.39%
Maori	9.52%	2.56%	6.96%
NZF	0.00%	2.56%	2.56%
TOP	11.90%	15.38%	3.48%
Other	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Undecided	4.76%	5.13%	0.37%
Not voting	4.76%	2.56%	2.20%
Voters	42	39

Attachment 14768

Hey, thanks for doing this! I hadn't realised the changes were that great - this makes it much easier to visualise them. Great job :)

I think the Act vote in these sharetrader polls will drop over time - because Act voters are probably more likely to stop doing them over and over.

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Originally Posted by Azz

I think the Act vote in these sharetrader polls will drop over time - because Act voters are probably more likely to stop doing them over and over.

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What on earth do you mean?

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

What on earth do you mean?

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He means that ACT voters will probably get sick of the constant polls and stop engaging with them. They’ve been kind of fun I guess but with such a tiny sample size they in no way reflect how the population at large are thinking and the ‘trends’ such as they are are pretty much meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

He means that ACT voters will probably get sick of the constant polls and stop engaging with them. They’ve been kind of fun I guess but with such a tiny sample size they in no way reflect how the population at large are thinking and the ‘trends’ such as they are are pretty much meaningless.

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Bang-on correct. :-)

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

He means that ACT voters will probably get sick of the constant polls and stop engaging with them. They’ve been kind of fun I guess but with such a tiny sample size they in no way reflect how the population at large are thinking and the ‘trends’ such as they are are pretty much meaningless.

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Their lack of respect for authority coming through? ;)

You two are almost as predictable as your buddy Balance. Go play in your sandpit, and leave the adults to enjoy our "meaningless" bit of poll fun.

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Originally Posted by Azz

I think the Act vote in these sharetrader polls will drop over time - because Act voters are probably more likely to stop doing them over and over.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

He means that ACT voters will probably get sick of the constant polls and stop engaging with them. They’ve been kind of fun I guess but with such a tiny sample size they in no way reflect how the population at large are thinking and the ‘trends’ such as they are are pretty much meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Azz

Bang-on correct. :-)

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

You two are almost as predictable as your buddy Balance. Go play in your sandpit, and leave the adults to enjoy our "meaningless" bit of poll fun.

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By the 50th poll I reckon, TOP will win it!

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Originally Posted by Azz

By the 50th poll I reckon, TOP will win it!

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They are the official opposition party on these numbers.

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Originally Posted by Baa_Baa

	4 weeks	3 weeks	4->3 +/-
National	21.43%	25.64%	4.21%
Labour	4.76%	2.56%	2.20%
ACT	40.48%	35.90%	4.58%
Greens	2.30%	7.69%	5.39%
Maori	9.52%	2.56%	6.96%
NZF	0.00%	2.56%	2.56%
TOP	11.90%	15.38%	3.48%
Other	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Undecided	4.76%	5.13%	0.37%
Not voting	4.76%	2.56%	2.20%
Voters	42	39

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NZfirst will get well over 5% in election its a movement.

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Originally Posted by Panda-NZ-

They are the official opposition party on these numbers.

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Why isn't the marijuana party in there? Seems a bit unfair they're not available as an option.

......deleted.......

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Originally Posted by Azz

Why isn't the marijuana party in there? Seems a bit unfair they're not available as an option.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

He means that ACT voters will probably get sick of the constant polls and stop engaging with them. They’ve been kind of fun I guess but with such a tiny sample size they in no way reflect how the population at large are thinking and the ‘trends’ such as they are are pretty much meaningless.

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But why would that be limited to one party?

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

But why would that be limited to one party?

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Just a guess but ACT voters might have a slighter higher IQ than your average voter and therefore possibly less willing to do repetitive tasks. I doubt with this tiny sample size it would make any meaningful difference though.

OK, I get it. The polls are a meaningless waste of time, so I will not be posting another one. The lack of gratitude or appreciation in this place is unbelievable.

I am done.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

OK, I get it. The polls are a meaningless waste of time, so I will not be posting another one. The lack of gratitude or appreciation in this place is unbelievable.

I am done.

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I hope you rethink that. I for one find it interesting and appreciate your input, as I'm sure others do. And the next couple of weeks should prove even more interesting.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

OK, I get it. The polls are a meaningless waste of time, so I will not be posting another one. The lack of gratitude or appreciation in this place is unbelievable.

I am done.

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Don't be like that. I wasn't having a go at you, I was just saying what I thought to be true.

It's just a bit of fun, the polls. No harm in you carrying out the plan to do multi-polls.

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

I hope you rethink that. I for one find it interesting and appreciate your input, as I'm sure others do. And the next couple of weeks should prove even more interesting.

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I hope so too.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

OK, I get it. The polls are a meaningless waste of time, so I will not be posting another one. The lack of gratitude or appreciation in this place is unbelievable.

I am done.

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Not sure why you take it so personally, if all it takes is someone to diminish the value of your poll and you quit, someone else will put up a poll to replace it. You've started something interesting here, far more people are taking part than criticising it, maybe just keep it going and disconnect from the negative comments. It's not personal.

Actually, it is personal Baa_Baa. But OK. I will put the final poll up next Saturday, for those who want it.

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Originally Posted by Azz

By the 50th poll I reckon, TOP will win it!

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lol, good one. Some of the hand-wringers out there have no sense of humour. They will still be fretting and dithering away as they walk into the polling booth. Look for the 'adult' when you go to vote, they will be the one engaged in a desperate no-win argument...with themself.

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Originally Posted by Azz

I think the Act vote in these sharetrader polls will drop over time - because Act voters are probably more likely to stop doing them over and over.

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Why ? I think it's most interesting if same people voted honestly each week to get a glimpse of how Sharetraders are thinking as we progress through the election campaign. Not a lot of work required to take part and only 4-5 weeks.

JAK, don't take it so personally. We are on here to hear different views and always some we dislike and don;t agree with. Continue the good work.

I appreciate it is probably a lot of bullsh*t but has anyone done the Vote Compass thing with one news?

Turns out I am a centre voter, almost right in the cross hairs, a little to the left economically and a little more socially conservative. (I thought I was a bleeding heart liberal but that might be due to comparing myself with the average share trader)

It does not feel like the centrist parties of National and Labour are trying for my vote though as they try to buy votes with dumb policy. GST off fruit and veg seems dumber and less imaginative than unfunded tax cuts.

Maybe the centre is a bunch of selfish aholes but I don't have the self awareness to see this in myself. I am closest to the TOP party but the social conservative in me puts me right between National and Labour.

Did everyone end up dead centre or are the algorithms and calculations actually right and I am a boring centrist not wanting change, despite constantly saying I would like to see change. Lucky TOP is there to give me an option in the centre as I cannot vote National or Labour.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

I appreciate it is probably a lot of bullsh*t but has anyone done the Vote Compass thing with one news?

Turns out I am a centre voter, almost right in the cross hairs, a little to the left economically and a little more socially conservative. (I thought I was a bleeding heart liberal but that might be due to comparing myself with the average share trader)

It does not feel like the centrist parties of National and Labour are trying for my vote though as they try to buy votes with dumb policy. GST off fruit and veg seems dumber and less imaginative than unfunded tax cuts.

Maybe the centre is a bunch of selfish aholes but I don't have the self awareness to see this in myself. I am closest to the TOP party but the social conservative in me puts me right between National and Labour.

Did everyone end up dead centre or are the algorithms and calculations actually right and I am a boring centrist not wanting change, despite constantly saying I would like to see change. Lucky TOP is there to give me an option in the centre as I cannot vote National or Labour.

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Turns out I am a centre voter

Lucky TOP is there to give me an option in the centre

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'Vote Compass results are not intended and should not be interpreted as voting advice, nor as a prediction as to which party or candidate a given user intends to vote for. It is meant to serve as an entry point into an examination of (where) parties differ across a suite of issues relevant to a given election campaign.'


https://www.voxpoplabs.com/votecompass/methodology.pdf

I think they are working on a 'Gender Compass' for anyone out there trying to figure that stuff out as well.

Vote Compass results place me pretty close to where I would have thought I am both economically and socially. My wife did it as well and got a similar result, i.e. pretty close to where she (and I) would have thought she was.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Vote Compass results place me pretty close to where I would have thought I am both economically and socially. My wife did it as well and got a similar result, i.e. pretty close to where she (and I) would have thought she was.

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Iceman I would have you as less radical probably placing right on National maybe a bit further lower so possibly NZF. But then again a tough fisherman could be blue collar left leaning but fisheries traditionally do not have strong unions so I would say just to the right of midway and halfway between midway and bottom on the social side.

I would be interested to know if Logen is to the right and below ACT on the grid. Based on his posts he comes across as reasonably extreme. It could be good confirmation on the accuracy of the poll.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

OK, I get it. The polls are a meaningless waste of time, so I will not be posting another one. The lack of gratitude or appreciation in this place is unbelievable.

I am done.

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The fact that 25 votes (so far) have been cast on the first day suggests that your poll is worthwhile and appreciated.
Keep up the good work.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

Iceman I would have you as less radical probably placing right on National maybe a bit further lower so possibly NZF. But then again a tough fisherman could be blue collar left leaning but fisheries traditionally do not have strong unions so I would say just to the right of midway and halfway between midway and bottom on the social side.

I would be interested to know if Logen is to the right and below ACT on the grid. Based on his posts he comes across as reasonably extreme. It could be good confirmation on the accuracy of the poll.

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Well I did the Vote Compass to go through the motions, and there were silly questions like "do you think tax cuts are the best way to deal with a cost of living crisis?"

If you answer 'NO' then the Vote Compass will drag you to the Left.
But you may be answering 'NO' because you would absolutely love a tax cut, but think that a cost of living crisis is best addressed by a suite of measures delivered not just by the government, but by the Reserve Bank as well. Whoever designed the 'Vote Compass' questions either has an ulterior motive behind the framing of them, or lacks the ability to think critically.

The questions are stupid in other words, extremely simple & there are hardly any of them. Certainly not enough to define a persons political identity.

I'm just absolutely gob-smacked that there are people out there who are -
1/ Prepared to put all their faith in something called 'Vote Compass' without knowing anything about it, without knowing who is behind it, who designed it, what their actual motivations are, whether the questions served up are capable of confirming a persons beliefs.....it is just so vague yet people will trust in it without a second thought.
2/ I don't need 'Vote Compass' to tell me what I believe in and what I stand for. I have known my political standpoint and intrinsic beliefs for decades. These beliefs are one of the pillars of our identity. The fact that people go to 'Vote Compass' to find out about themselves.....mind boggling. It is a joke, a gimmick.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

If you answer 'NO' then the Vote Compass will drag you to the Left.
But you may be answering 'NO' because you would absolutely love a tax cut, but think that a cost of living crisis is best addressed by a suite of measures delivered not just by the government, but by the Reserve Bank as well. Whoever designed the 'Vote Compass' questions either has an ulterior motive behind the framing of them, or lacks the ability to think critically.

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They're catering to the average person in the street, not us intellectual heavyweights.

Take this 'Vote Compass' question:

'How many immigrants should New Zealand admit?'

If a person answers 'many fewer', is that because they are a far right racist who loathes dark skinned people, or because the are a left wing leaning person who is desperately worried about our creaking infrastructure and wants a temporary pause while the government spends $100 billion fixing it up?

So can anyone tell me how 'Vote Compass' can make the correct determination from such a generic question and such a generic answer?

Take this 'Vote Compass' question:

'Environmental regulations should be stricter, even if it means consumers pay higher prices.'

If I answer 'strongly disagree', is that because I am an right wing ultra-capitalist who doesn't give a toss about the environment, or because I am a far-left Marxist who is strongly opposed to 'long suffering' consumers paying higher prices when I think industry should bear all the costs?

Again, how can 'Vote Compass' possibly make the determination from such a generic question and such a generic answer?

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Originally Posted by Panda-NZ-

They're catering to the average person in the street, not us intellectual heavyweights.

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lol.............. Panda-NZ, not only have you been mainly polite and reasonable lately, you make the occasional joke too. I'm really very concerned about you; did you ever get to the hospital after that head-knock you experienced?

"Martha, duh...I thought I was right wing but I done gone and done this here 'Vote Compass', and it turns out I'm actually pretty far left. Jingo's, I was gonna vote National but I guess that now I'll pretty much have to vote Labour."

"That's amazing George dear, I better do it too to find out what I believe in and who I am. I've always assumed I'm an environmentalist but perhaps I'm a predatory capitalist..."

Re Vote Compass, I've said it before and I'll say it again: without it being open source there is no way to tell if it has any bias, either mistaken or deliberate.

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Originally Posted by Azz

Re Vote Compass, I've said it before and I'll say it again: without it being open source there is no way to tell if it has any bias, either mistaken or deliberate.

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Look, the questions are so stupid and the answers are so open to interpretation that it renders the whole thing pointless. The fact that people take it seriously and OneNews market it as a way to help you determine who you should vote for just confirms that we are on the cusp of being an Idiocracy, if we are not there already. People these days have zero ability to think critically, and I blame Television and mobile phones, the media, social media, and brain damage from environmental pollution, drug and alcohol use, poor diet, and head knocks from playing sport.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Take this 'Vote Compass' question:

'Environmental regulations should be stricter, even if it means consumers pay higher prices.'

If I answer 'strongly disagree', is that because I am an right wing ultra-capitalist who doesn't give a toss about the environment, or because I am a far-left Marxist who is strongly opposed to 'long suffering' consumers paying higher prices when I think industry should bear all the costs?

Again, how can 'Vote Compass' possibly make the determination from such a generic question and such a generic answer?

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Interesting that you don't share your result. Was I right that you are an extremist or are you embarrassed because you are more aligned with Labour?

I wouldn't take the results too seriously just interested out of curiosity. I was more wondering if we all clustered around the centre or if it is only me.

I thought we might find Balance and Panda NZ and BlackPeter and AZZ not that far from each other at the end of the day. I wouldn't over analyse it though.

For example I think the strongest green voter bases are in the wealthiest electorates so you can be concerned about the environment and be rich. Probably the wealthy liberals telling us to stop oil and farming as they won't be the ones suffering from rising prices at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

Interesting that you don't share your result. Was I right that you are an extremist or are you embarrassed because you are more aligned with Labour?

I wouldn't take the results too seriously just interested out of curiosity. I was more wondering if we all clustered around the centre or if it is only me.

I thought we might find Balance and Panda NZ and BlackPeter and AZZ not that far from each other at the end of the day. I wouldn't over analyse it though.

For example I think the strongest green voter bases are in the wealthiest electorates so you can be concerned about the environment and be rich. Probably the wealthy liberals telling us to stop oil and farming as they won't be the ones suffering from rising prices at the end of the day.

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My result is irrelevant, and I explained why. There is no way I could possibly be 'embarrassed' by the 'result', as the result is rendered meaningless by the poorly designed questions.

Let me be clear: I do not place any store in 'Vote Compass', it is a cheap parlour trick, a stupid gimmick.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

My result is irrelevant, and I explained why. There is no way I could possibly be 'embarrassed' by the 'result', as the result is rendered meaningless by the poorly designed questions.

Let me be clear: I do not place any store in 'Vote Compass', it is a cheap parlour trick, a stupid gimmick.

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Of course its all irrelevant and the questions are simple and loaded. But the same thing could be said about just about every discussion on this site, at the end of the day they are just personal opinions and in reality quite irrelevant !!
I just looked at it as a bit of fun, like a quiz or a puzzle

I agree that Vote Compass could couch its questions better and have a wider scope.

I don't know if they will do it this year, but the Dominion, or now Post newspaper used to do an excellent 2 page layout of the policies of each party, which l found was the most useful tool to help decide who to vote for.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Of course its all irrelevant and the questions are simple and loaded. But the same thing could be said about just about every discussion on this site, at the end of the day they are just personal opinions and in reality quite irrelevant !!
I just looked at it as a bit of fun, like a quiz or a puzzle

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Yeah, but often people don't. I've seen responses in the past where people are amazed to 'find out' they are actually a different political animal than they thought they were, then I point out the flaws....then it's suddenly 'yeah, I just thought it was a bit of fun'. Take the bloke who thinks I'd be 'embarrassed' to 'find out' I'm actually 'more aligned with Labour'. Trust me, there are people who are taking it seriously, or at least....did initially take it seriously.

Another 'Vote Compass' question:

'Urban housing developments in New Zealand should stay within current city limits rather than expand into surrounding farmland.'

If I 'strongly agree' is that because I am a right wing property developer who specialises in high rise urban apartment buildings and has bought up inner city land, or because I am a left wing environmentalist who doesn't want green areas being overrun by new houses and roading infrastructure? Or am I someone else with some other reason?

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Originally Posted by Getty

I don't know if they will do it this year, but the Dominion, or now Post newspaper used to do an excellent 2 page layout of the policies of each party, which l found was the most useful tool to help decide who to vote for.

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That's the best way to present the info, all of it there in one place, publically.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

My result is irrelevant, and I explained why. There is no way I could possibly be 'embarrassed' by the 'result', as the result is rendered meaningless by the poorly designed questions.

Let me be clear: I do not place any store in 'Vote Compass', it is a cheap parlour trick, a stupid gimmick.

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Agreed.

According to compass I am the most level headed even handed person going into this election. That is not what I hear from people who know me.

Still interested to know your result, just out of interest. How about this, without giving too much away are you further right and lower down than ACT?

I suspect Logen and Iceman are freaked out by how accurately me and the Compass quiz labled them and do not like it.

What's the story with this strange 'Vote Compass' question?

'Fruits and vegetables should be exempt from GST.'

Why just fruit and vegetables? Why not all food? Or everything? What will my answer tell me or 'Vote Compass' about my own personal political viewpoint? Maybe I put 'strongly disagree' 'because I hate poor people because I'm an evil neoliberal' (as per the cliche)? Or maybe I put 'strongly disagree' because I think GST should be scrapped altogether and I don't think taking it off some things goes far enough? Or maybe I put 'strongly disagree' because I think the exemption will be difficult to administer and won't achieve anything because the sellers will simply put up their prices to 'fill up the slack' that appears when the GST goes? Or maybe I put 'strongly disagree' because I think NZ needs all the tax revenue it can get right now because I want better public services?
How does 'Vote Compass' know what is going on in the mind of any given respondent?

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Originally Posted by Aaron

Agreed.

According to compass I am the most level headed even handed person going into this election. That is not what I hear from people who know me.

Still interested to know your result, just out of interest. How about this, without giving too much away are you further right and lower down than ACT?

I suspect Logen and Iceman are freaked out by how accurately me and the Compass quiz labled them and do not like it.

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Again, why on earth would I be 'freaked out' or 'embarrassed'?

I think the best thing about it is that it may get some people to actually think about these things, and who is touting what, rather than just soaking up the media narrative.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Again, why on earth would I be 'freaked out' or 'embarrassed'?

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Just wondering why you don't want to share your results with us?

It is just a joke poll and as you say, you can't read too much into it. Just interesting to compare results with impressions I have of people based on their posts in these election threads.

With Balance's lack of opposition to capital gains tax he might land closer to Labour than any of us might believe.

An important part of the election process is the right to privacy so don't let me upset you.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

With Balance's lack of opposition to capital gains tax he might land closer to Labour than any of us might believe.

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What the hell is this........? That can't be true?!

I would expect Azz to fall somewhere close to NZ First as a first class sh*t stirrer he and Winston must be closely aligned.

Thinking about the grid further, how come NZF is right on the x axis wouldn't that mean they are borderline crazy.

Don't tell me you landed in the bottom right hand corner Logen?

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Originally Posted by Aaron

I would expect Azz to fall somewhere close to NZ First as a first class sh*t stirrer he and Winston must be closely aligned.

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I love Winston. It took a few years, but I've forgiven him for going with Labour in 2017.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

Just wondering why you don't want to share your results with us?

It is just a joke poll and as you say, you can't read too much into it. Just interesting to compare results with impressions I have of people based on their posts in these election threads.

With Balance's lack of opposition to capital gains tax he might land closer to Labour than any of us might believe.

An important part of the election process is the right to privacy so don't let me upset you.

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With Balance's lack of opposition to capital gains tax he might land closer to Labour than any of us might believe.

Really? The Labour PM is opposed to the introduction of a Capital Gains Tax.

Chris Hipkins has ruled out introducing a wealth tax or capital gains tax if Labour is re-elected in October. "I'm confirming today that under a government I lead there will be no wealth or capital gains tax after the election. End of story," Hipkins said in a statement.

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Originally Posted by Azz

I love Winston. It took a few years, but I've forgiven him for going with Labour in 2017.

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See Azz is closely aligned to Winston as expected. I also suspect Iceman to be closer to NZF than National but more to do with a conservative nature than being a sh*t stirrer. Where did you land on the grid Logen?

Chris Hipkins as gutless as Key and Adern but I would suspect favouring a capital gains tax would put you further left on the grid.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

See Azz is closely aligned to Winston as expected.

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I didn't say I was aligned with him; I said I loved him.

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Originally Posted by Azz

I didn't say I was aligned with him; I said I loved him.

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Closely Aligned, Love.... Potatoe, potato.

I did it and landed smack in the middle too.
I share Logen's misgivings about the questions and structure, but again, think it is useful for engaging people's thought processes about some of the issues to be considered when voting

FWIW we also did it with my racist MIL who claimed she was voting for Winston and to be fair, it gave her a 90% affinity with NZF, so it's not totally inaccurate ;)

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Originally Posted by Aaron

Closely Aligned, Love.... Potatoe, potato.

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Tomato, tomatoe!

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Originally Posted by dln

FWIW we also did it with my racist MIL who claimed she was voting for Winston and to be fair, it gave her a 90% affinity with NZF, so it's not totally inaccurate ;)

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Hopefully she's just a try-hard racist, not a real one.

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Originally Posted by dln

I did it and landed smack in the middle too.
I share Logen's misgivings about the questions and structure, but again, think it is useful for engaging people's thought processes about some of the issues to be considered when voting

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See Logen, me and dln are level headed, perfectly reasonable people and I suspect most people will fall somewhere around the centre, but from your hyperbolic postings I just wondered if you fell somewhere near the extremes, like NZF, Azz and dln's mother in law.

Possibly the anonymity of the web allows you to appear more extreme than you might be in real life.

Be interested to hear where others landed.

justakiwi would be hard to pick, someone for the farmers but also for the transgenders. I suspect high and right of halfway on the grid.

Many thanks for the poll and a fun thread justakiwi. All this politics is getting way too serious.

Gotta go and buy some beer to celebrate this great nation and an All Black win.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

See Logen, me and dln are level headed, perfectly reasonable people and I suspect most people will fall somewhere around the centre, but from your hyperbolic postings I just wondered if you fell somewhere near the extremes, like NZF, Azz and dln's mother in law.

Possibly the anonymity of the web allows you to appear more extreme than you might be in real life.

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See Logen, me and dln are level headed, perfectly reasonable people

I just wondered if you fell somewhere near the extremes, like NZF, Azz and dln's mother in law.

Who is the 'you' you are addressing your remarks to?

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Originally Posted by Aaron

me and dln are level headed, perfectly reasonable people

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Um, hmmm, ah, um, mayyyybe....

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

[I]Who is the 'you' you are addressing your remarks to?

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You of course, we haven't got your answer yet.

Labour and the Greens combined are currently polling at 3.45% in the latest 'Sharetrader Poll'. They won't be happy if this is how they go on election day.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Labour and the Greens combined are currently polling at 3.45% in the latest 'Sharetrader Poll'. They won't be happy if this is how they go on election day.

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We can't all be happy

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Labour and the Greens combined are currently polling at 3.45% in the latest 'Sharetrader Poll'. They won't be happy if this is how they go on election day.

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We can't all be happy

All the latest poll on NZST displays is its not reprentative of the wider population and its is dominated by either the center right or very right wing which explains a lot in regards the discourse on this site.

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Originally Posted by Daytr

All the latest poll on NZST displays is its not reprentative of the wider population and its is dominated by either the center right or very right wing which explains a lot in regards the discourse on this site.

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The discourse on this site would be a heck of a lot better without people here misrepresenting themselves - such as stating they're an "international day trader" when they're not.

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Originally Posted by Daytr

All the latest poll on NZST displays is its not reprentative of the wider population and its is dominated by either the center right or very right wing which explains a lot in regards the discourse on this site.

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Yes, the discourse is usually pretty on point, robust, and honest…..and then you have a handful of whingers & over-sensitive hand wringers, and the also occasional pedantic train spotter who goes around totalling up other peoples daily post numbers.

You really do have a giant chip on your shoulder don't you? Maybe take a break from the internet and go for walk or something. Like I did the other day, when I temporarily "lost the plot" because I let people I don't even know, get to me.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Yes, the discourse is usually pretty on point, robust, and honest…..and then you have a handful of whingers & over-sensitive hand wringers, and the also occasional pedantic train spotter who goes around totalling up other peoples daily post numbers.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

You really do have a giant chip on your shoulder don't you? Maybe take a break from the internet and go for walk or something. Like I did the other day, when I temporarily "lost the plot" because I let people I don't even know, get to me.

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Yeah, I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder....not the bloke who goes round adding up other peoples posts and giving a running tally. You should have noted that my post was in response to that guys latest whinge.

Running poll tally:

Parties of the right: 20 votes. (National and ACT)

Parties of the left: 10 votes. (Labour / NZF / Greens / TOP / TE Pati Maori)

Not voting: 1.

Wow! All I said is the discourse is representative of the polling and membership, which is quite a reasonable thing to say & make perfect sense.

And they are saying I have chip on my shoulder. If you think what I said was derogatory then you are referring to your own views & according discourse.

Quite incredible reaction. But funny also.
Those who throw around insults like salt are soooo sensitive.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Yes, the discourse is usually pretty on point, robust, and honest…..and then you have a handful of whingers & over-sensitive hand wringers, and the also occasional pedantic train spotter who goes around totalling up other peoples daily post numbers.

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Yes, there is a handful of whingers here and they are the ones who are constantly posting negative comments about Labour, page after page. That is the real whinging. Their discourse quickly descends into personal attacks and name calling if someone has an alternative view to their propaganda.

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Originally Posted by moka

Yes, there is a handful of whingers here and they are the ones who are constantly posting negative comments about Labour, page after page. That is the real whinging. Their discourse quickly descends into personal attacks and name calling if someone has an alternative view to their propaganda.

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21 votes for the parties in the Right, plus another 3 if you add in NZF.

No wonder the resident Marxists are spitting their chips!

Right now, you are spitting more chips than pretty much anyone.

I honestly don’t understand why you are SO freaking angry all the time. Nothing any of us say here will make one iota of difference to the outcome of the election. There is zero point trying to convince anyone who they should (or shouldn’t) vote for. By all means, discuss YOUR reasons for voting for a particular party, but you have to respect that everyone has different views, beliefs, feelings, and they may not be the same as yours. This constant anger and nastiness needs to stop - from all sides. Your judgement of others is not OK.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

No wonder the resident Marxists are spitting their chips!

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

Right now, you are spitting more chips than pretty much anyone.

I honestly don’t understand why you are SO freaking angry all the time. Nothing any of us say here will make one iota of difference to the outcome of the election. There is zero point trying to convince anyone who they should (or shouldn’t) vote for. By all means, discuss YOUR reasons for voting for a particular party, but you have to respect that everyone has different views, beliefs, feelings, and they may not be the same as yours. This constant anger and nastiness needs to stop - from all sides. Your judgement of others is not OK.

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Definitely not trying to convince anyone here to vote for National or ACT. Most of then are already. 😂

There is no one answer as to why some men are so angry all the time, but social media has proven perversely liberating for angry men, as this article says.

https://www.fatherly.com/life/anger-management-expert-why-men

“They don’t have to deal with the consequences of angry diatribes and don’t have to fear retribution,” Dr Thomas J. Harbin writes. “They can say whatever they want to whoever they want and get away with it. They can rant and rave, call people names, make false statements about people, start or contribute to rumors, and sometimes ruin lives — and forget all about it when they walk away from the screen.”

A lot of angry men have a core sense of inferiority. They feel like they don’t measure up.
“I think over the last 10 or 15 years or so a lot of aspects of our culture have gotten increasingly aggressive,” says Dr. Harbin

“I think the echo chamber has done a lot to exacerbate and perpetuate male anger. Guys can go online and find thousands of other guys that are just as angry as they are and they bounce it back and forth, getting angrier. I think that there has been a great reduction in civility and reasonableness over the last couple of generations, and I think that you’d be wrong to blame social media for that entirely but I certainly think that social media contributes to it.”
A lot of people value belligerence in and of its own self. Belligerence is now a virtue.

The answer to why some men are angry all the time is that they are from the Left, they are social justice warriors, they want everything to be made ‘fair’, they rail against others as being ‘selfish’ and ‘greedy’. It just goes with the territory.

My hope for TOP is that they get about 3.85% of the vote; high enough that they siphon a significant number of votes away from the Left but are still signficantly short of the threshold.

I think a political opportunist like Manji may depart for his next destination before 2026, maybe a return to CHC council, or even off to try his luck in Australia.

“They don’t have to deal with the consequences of angry diatribes and don’t have to fear retribution,” Dr Thomas J. Harbin writes. “They can say whatever they want to whoever they want and get away with it. They can rant and rave, call people names, make false statements about people, start or contribute to rumors, and sometimes ruin lives — and forget all about it when they walk away from the screen.”

A lot of angry men have a core sense of inferiority. They feel like they don’t measure up.

That describes me pretty much. That said I don't like agreeing with what some stupid f*cking, opinionated American has spouted off.


Hey Logen where do you fall on the Compass grid??? I imagine Moka would be somewhere near the centre as I agree with a lot of his posts. If you are at an extreme it could be confirmation that the compass guide is reasonably accurate.

My vote for TOP will change nothing but nothing much will change under either National or Labour.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

“They don’t have to deal with the consequences of angry diatribes and don’t have to fear retribution,” Dr Thomas J. Harbin writes. “They can say whatever they want to whoever they want and get away with it. They can rant and rave, call people names, make false statements about people, start or contribute to rumors, and sometimes ruin lives — and forget all about it when they walk away from the screen.”

A lot of angry men have a core sense of inferiority. They feel like they don’t measure up.

That describes me pretty much. That said I don't like agreeing with what some stupid f*cking, opinionated American has spouted off.


Hey Logen where do you fall on the Compass grid??? I imagine Moka would be some near the centre as I agree with a lot of his posts. If you are at an extreme it could be confirmation that the compass guide is reasonably accurate.

My vote for TOP will change nothing but nothing much will change under either National or Labour.

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Who did you vote for at the last election Aaron, if you don't mind me asking? Was it one of the parties from the Left bloc?

I didn't complete the 'Vote Compass' thing, the questions were laughable. All of this was explained in my earlier posts where I provided examples of questions and the multiple reasons why someone could have answered the way they did. Sorry, 'Vote Compass' has no utility & should be disregarded as any sort of a tool or indicator as to what a person believes in.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Who did you vote for at the last election Aaron, if you don't mind me asking? Was it one of the parties from the Left bloc?

I didn't complete the 'Vote Compass' thing, the questions were laughable. All of this was explained in my earlier posts where I provided examples of questions and the multiple reasons why someone could have answered the way they did. Sorry, 'Vote Compass' has no utility & should be disregarded as any sort of a tool or indicator as to what a person believes in.

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Not a truer word said. Vote compass is a joke. The framing is so obvious it is laughable.

Given that it is your anger we were originally talking about, this explanation is clearly irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

The answer to why some men are angry all the time is that they are from the Left, they are social justice warriors, they want everything to be made ‘fair’, they rail against others as being ‘selfish’ and ‘greedy’. It just goes with the territory.

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I think that's what you should do. You'd no doubt be much happier there.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

I think a political opportunist like Manji may depart for his next destination before 2026, maybe a return to CHC council, or even off to try his luck in Australia.

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....deleted.....

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

The answer to why some men are angry all the time is that they are from the Left, they are social justice warriors, they want everything to be made ‘fair’, they rail against others as being ‘selfish’ and ‘greedy’. It just goes with the territory.

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They are what Gad Saad calls "sneaky ****ers". (Those so called men who hang around social warrior women)

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Who did you vote for at the last election Aaron, if you don't mind me asking? Was it one of the parties from the Left bloc?

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I voted for the most centrist party there is... TOP according to Compass. Neither left nor right but concerned about the welfare of everyone, old, young, rich, poor and a party that is concerned about all NZers. (sounds socialist or communist when you say it like that) Not trying to pander to selfish aholes with bullsh*t policies.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

I voted for the most centrist party there is... TOP according to Compass. Neither left nor right but concerned about the welfare of everyone, old, young, rich, poor and a party that is concerned about all NZers. (sounds socialist or communist when you say it like that) Not trying to pander to selfish aholes with bullsh*t policies.

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A committed TOP voter then.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

Given that it is your anger we were originally talking about, this explanation is clearly irrelevant.




I think that's what you should do. You'd no doubt be much happier there.

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In all honesty JAK, the most bitter and angry person seems to be you.

Actually, today, that assessment is fair. You are bringing out a side of me I don't much like. Up until now, I think I have managed to participate in these discussions in a respectful and controlled way, without attacking anyone for their beliefs. You, on the other hand, have done the exact opposite, and have openly admitted to shaming me (and no doubt others) for my voting decision in the last election. I have not once done that to you.

So right now, yes, my anger is directed at you. Not entirely unjustifiably.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

In all honesty JAK, the most bitter and angry person seems to be you.

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Originally Posted by justakiwi

Actually, today, that assessment is fair. You are bringing out a side of me I don't much like. Up until now, I think I have managed to participate in these discussions in a respectful and controlled way, without attacking anyone for their beliefs. You, on the other hand, have done the exact opposite, and have openly admitted shaming me (and no doubt others) for my voting decision in the last election. I have not once done that to you.

So right now, yes, my anger is directed at you. Not entirely unjustifiably.

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Give it a rest JAK. I said people should be ashamed of themselves for voting this horrible & divisive Labour government into power. If you want to carry on forever and a day about that, that is your choice.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Give it a rest JAK. I said people should be ashamed of themselves for voting this horrible & divisive Labour government into power. If you want to carry on forever and a day about that, that is your choice.

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"Give it a rest, and if you want to carry on forever and a day that is your choice to JAK" says the most frequent poster on these election threads. Talk about projection. He is talking about his own behaviour not JAK’s whose posts don’t dominate these threads. In projection, thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings that cannot be accepted as one's own are dealt with by being placed in the outside world and attributed to someone else.

People who can accept their failures and weaknesses and are comfortable reflecting on the good, bad, and ugly within tend not to project. I see JAK able to do that, as she demonstrates in the post just above this.

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Originally Posted by moka

"Give it a rest, and if you want to carry on forever and a day that is your choice to JAK" says the most frequent poster on these election threads. Talk about projection. He is talking about his own behaviour not JAK’s whose posts don’t dominate these threads. In projection, thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings that cannot be accepted as one's own are dealt with by being placed in the outside world and attributed to someone else.

People who can accept their failures and weaknesses and are comfortable reflecting on the good, bad, and ugly within tend not to project. I see JAK able to do that, as she demonstrates in the post just above this.

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Another comprehension fail by moka. I was talking about JAK giving her intense emnity towards me a rest, not her taking a rest from posting.
Likewise, I was talking about JAK hopefully not continuing her personal attacks 'forever and a day'; it was nothing to do with posting in general.

The rage coming from the Left is undertandable. Labour is heading for defeat, TOP probably won't make the threshold....what else is there to do but lash out?

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Give it a rest JAK. I said people should be ashamed of themselves for voting this horrible & divisive Labour government into power. If you want to carry on forever and a day about that, that is your choice.

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Shame is a spell others put on us to control us, to keep us playing a part in a dysfunctional system. It is a spell many of us have learned to put on ourselves. Learning to reject shame can change the quality of our life. It’s okay to be who we are. We are good enough. Our feelings are okay. Our past is okay. It’s okay to have problems, make mistakes and struggle to find our path. It is okay to be human and cherish our humanness.

Today I will watch for signs that I have fallen into shame’s trap. If I get hooked into shame, I will get myself out by accepting myself and affirming that it’s okay to be who I am.

I am proud to have to have voted for Labour in the last election, and while they made mistakes I agree with those who said that NZ’s response to covid was one of the most successful in the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/co...-learn-from-it

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Originally Posted by moka

Shame is a spell others put on us to control us, to keep us playing a part in a dysfunctional system. It is a spell many of us have learned to put on ourselves. Learning to reject shame can change the quality of our life. It’s okay to be who we are. We are good enough. Our feelings are okay. Our past is okay. It’s okay to have problems, make mistakes and struggle to find our path. It is okay to be human and cherish our humanness.

Today I will watch for signs that I have fallen into shame’s trap. If I get hooked into shame, I will get myself out by accepting myself and affirming that it’s okay to be who I am.

I am proud to have to have voted for Labour in the last election, and while they made mistakes I agree with those who said that NZ’s response to covid was one of the most successful in the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/co...-learn-from-it

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Sorry, I don't believe in magical spells or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers

Another comprehension fail by moka. I was talking about JAK giving her intense emnity towards me a rest, not her taking a rest from posting.
Likewise, I was talking about JAK hopefully not continuing her personal attacks 'forever and a day'; it was nothing to do with posting in general.

The rage coming from the Left is undertandable. Labour is heading for defeat, TOP probably won't make the threshold....what else is there to do but lash out?

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You are trying to discredit me when you say another comprehension fail by moka.

A mind game going on here. I didn’t notice JAK’s "intense emnity" and personal attacks in previous posts when I read them earlier. I did notice she didn’t agree with you. I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of spending time to see if they were actually personal attacks.

Mind games are actions performed for reasons of psychological one-upmanship, often employing passive-aggressive behavior to specifically demoralize or dis-empower the other person, making the aggressor look superior. Mind games can be used to undermine someone’s belief in the validity of their own perceptions. Mind games in the struggle for prestige appear in everyday life in the fields of office politics, sport, and relationships.

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Originally Posted by moka

You are trying to discredit me when you say another comprehension fail by moka.

A mind game going on here. I didn’t notice JAK’s "intense emnity" and personal attacks in previous posts when I read them earlier. I did notice she didn’t agree with you. I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of spending time to see if they were actually personal attacks.

Mind games are actions performed for reasons of psychological one-upmanship, often employing passive-aggressive behavior to specifically demoralize or dis-empower the other person, making the aggressor look superior. Mind games can be used to undermine someone’s belief in the validity of their own perceptions. Mind games in the struggle for prestige appear in everyday life in the fields of office politics, sport, and relationships.

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Thanks for the diatribe on 'mind games'. Very enlightening.

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Originally Posted by moka

Shame is a spell others put on us to control us, to keep us playing a part in a dysfunctional system. It is a spell many of us have learned to put on ourselves. Learning to reject shame can change the quality of our life. It’s okay to be who we are. We are good enough. Our feelings are okay. Our past is okay. It’s okay to have problems, make mistakes and struggle to find our path. It is okay to be human and cherish our humanness.

Today I will watch for signs that I have fallen into shame’s trap. If I get hooked into shame, I will get myself out by accepting myself and affirming that it’s okay to be who I am.

I am proud to have to have voted for Labour in the last election, and while they made mistakes I agree with those who said that NZ’s response to covid was one of the most successful in the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/co...-learn-from-it

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Shame is a real thing and it is not a spell. It is important. The absence of shame leads to destruction. Shame and guilt are functional and important for mental health. Shame also regulates and makes us meet expectations and live up to our values.
Shame (closely related to guilt and regret) is an essential part of our survival and functioning and, in fact, is a gift from Mother Nature.
Shame’s function is pretty important. Basically, it helps to keep us in check.
If you want to reject shame, you do so at your own detriment.