Queenstown - a buyers market ?

Hi all,

As a family we are considering moving to Queenstown for a lifestyle change for 3-4yrs until the kids hit secondary school age when we might consider moving back to Auckland.

We are just wondering if there are any locals on Sharetrader who could give us a few basic facts about the property market. There is a lot of press in the market that the Southern Lakes region has probably suffered the most in the property downturn.

Q1. Is the market down there on its knees ? ... We are tempted by Jack's Point but from what I hear it is still a ghost town with empty Fletcher Houses and little going on. For such a spectacular location is now the time to bag a bargain ? We are thinking of renting while we build a new house at Jack's Point after bagging a section for around $225-$250k. What is the local view of Jack's Point ... is it a over-priced, over-hyped "white elephant"?

Q2. Lake Hayes Estate ... not our prefered option as it strikes us as a really cold hollow with little to offer in terms of amenities. Are locals dubious or positive on this sprawling sub-division?

Q3. Athur's Point ... I like the area, near the Shotover River , half way to Arrowtown. What is the local view.

Q4. I do alot of business in Christchurch. Is there any reason why Air NZ doesn't run early morning flights out of Queenstown to arrive in Christchuch at between say 8.00 and 8.30am ... the last flight back leaves CHC at 4.20pm , which again is pretty early. Is this due to the terrain and dangers of landing in the dark ... or is there just no demand. For board meetings that start at say 9.00am in CHC it seems the only option is to go the night before or drive to Invercargill where there are two departures to CHC before 8.00am !! Is driving to IVC airport a realistic option inside say 2hrs ?

Our housing budget will be $700k ish .... any suggestions ...

Thanks for your help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

Hi all,

As a family we are considering moving to Queenstown for a lifestyle change for 3-4yrs until the kids hit secondary school age when we might consider moving back to Auckland.

We are just wondering if there are any locals on Sharetrader who could give us a few basic facts about the property market. There is a lot of press in the market that the Southern Lakes region has probably suffered the most in the property downturn.

Q1. Is the market down there on its knees ? ... We are tempted by Jack's Point but from what I hear it is still a ghost town with empty Fletcher Houses and little going on. For such a spectacular location is now the time to bag a bargain ? We are thinking of renting while we build a new house at Jack's Point after bagging a section for around $225-$250k. What is the local view of Jack's Point ... is it a over-priced, over-hyped "white elephant"?

Q2. Lake Hayes Estate ... not our prefered option as it strikes us as a really cold hollow with little to offer in terms of amenities. Are locals dubious or positive on this sprawling sub-division?

Q3. Athur's Point ... I like the area, near the Shotover River , half way to Arrowtown. What is the local view.

Q4. I do alot of business in Christchurch. Is there any reason why Air NZ doesn't run early morning flights out of Queenstown to arrive in Christchuch at between say 8.00 and 8.30am ... the last flight back leaves CHC at 4.20pm , which again is pretty early. Is this due to the terrain and dangers of landing in the dark ... or is there just no demand. For board meetings that start at say 9.00am in CHC it seems the only option is to go the night before or drive to Invercargill where there are two departures to CHC before 8.00am !! Is driving to IVC airport a realistic option inside say 2hrs ?

Our housing budget will be $700k ish .... any suggestions ...

Thanks for your help.

---

-Lake hayes est. a really cold hollow LOL I really think you should buy in sunshine bay LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

Hi all,

As a family we are considering moving to Queenstown for a lifestyle change for 3-4yrs until the kids hit secondary school age when we might consider moving back to Auckland.

We are just wondering if there are any locals on Sharetrader who could give us a few basic facts about the property market. There is a lot of press in the market that the Southern Lakes region has probably suffered the most in the property downturn.

Q1. Is the market down there on its knees ? ... We are tempted by Jack's Point but from what I hear it is still a ghost town with empty Fletcher Houses and little going on. For such a spectacular location is now the time to bag a bargain ? We are thinking of renting while we build a new house at Jack's Point after bagging a section for around $225-$250k. What is the local view of Jack's Point ... is it a over-priced, over-hyped "white elephant"?

Q2. Lake Hayes Estate ... not our prefered option as it strikes us as a really cold hollow with little to offer in terms of amenities. Are locals dubious or positive on this sprawling sub-division?

Q3. Athur's Point ... I like the area, near the Shotover River , half way to Arrowtown. What is the local view.

Q4. I do alot of business in Christchurch. Is there any reason why Air NZ doesn't run early morning flights out of Queenstown to arrive in Christchuch at between say 8.00 and 8.30am ... the last flight back leaves CHC at 4.20pm , which again is pretty early. Is this due to the terrain and dangers of landing in the dark ... or is there just no demand. For board meetings that start at say 9.00am in CHC it seems the only option is to go the night before or drive to Invercargill where there are two departures to CHC before 8.00am !! Is driving to IVC airport a realistic option inside say 2hrs ?

Our housing budget will be $700k ish .... any suggestions ...

Thanks for your help.

---

Yes. Rent.

GGG

Think if you live at Jacks Point or Lake Hayes Estate you will pretty soon get tired of driving the kids to Queenstown primary school each day (if they dont go in the bus), would be tempted to look at house buying/renting in Queenstown or Arrowtown if I was you. There is a primary school in Arrowtown

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by funguspudding

Yes. Rent.

---

Yeah for a nice new home here that gets more than 1-2hrs of sun per day your be looking at least $450pw-$600pw av

You can buy the same house for round 500k-700k depending on your capital input it would IMHO be better to buy as once you move here from the rat-race your prob want to stay longer than 4yrs many people come to queenstown for a winter to never want to leave

Not having enough $$$ jobs etc is biggest driver away of locals(that an living in the shade for half of the year)

Right now it's currently 26deg inside are house in Lake hayes est. only sun heating atm till 5pm

OK, so Lake Hayes is not as cold as some parts and gets plenty of sun. Thanks for that.

Any other points ...

Lack of early morning and late evening flights and travel time to IVC airport ??

Any idea when the new primary school at Frankton will be opening ??

Is Jack's Point fundamentally flawed or just suffering like rest of market ??

Is Butel Park a realistic option ??


More opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

OK, so Lake Hayes is not as cold as some parts and gets plenty of sun. Thanks for that.

Any other points ...

Lack of early morning and late evening flights and travel time to IVC airport ??

Any idea when the new primary school at Frankton will be opening ??

Is Jack's Point fundamentally flawed or just suffering like rest of market ??

---

I have owned 2 properties in Queenstown over the years, and observed the ups and downs for decades. It is speculator driven and does not behave like most real estate markets which are usually underpinned by genuine owner occupiers. Same applies to Florida, Surfers paradise, Aspin, and many other holiday resorts. When QT goes dead - it really goes dead, not just quiet. It will happen again, but it's not there yet. Be prepared to rent for a while and study the market. You'll find a bargain, it's definitely a place where the odd desperado has to 'meet the market' on the day - but you'll never build a bargain.

The new school aint built yet GGG

JB Murc knows where there sun is, I would suggest head down there and drive around the neighbourhoods seeing where the sun is through the day.

JB's other comment about going there and never leaving is right on the nail, I know many who have gone for a wee while and stayed for a long while, also know a good few who have gone with the intention of staying for a long while but have not been able to afford to stay there.
In our experience it does not cost too much more to live in Queenstown than any other part of NZ except for housing, but there are a hell of a lot of distractions to spend $$$ on, skis, mountainbikes, Millbrook Concerts, Restaurants, Casinos, mates visiting and wanting to take you to the pub, easy flights to Oz and so on.

Just spent 1/2hr on the phone to agent from Frankton Real Estate. She was reasonably positive on J.Pt. - says there are some nice sections out there with great north facing sun for around $250-$280k ... build a $400k Jennian or David Reid home and you've got yourself a very nice property. Rent in Lake Hayes Estate in the meantime for around $500pw. New school will be finished by the time house is.

Interest is increasing according to her ... shortage of listings , nationwide story at the moment. Maybe time to make the move.

We are selling at $1.4m so will be mortgage free and looking to buy some commercial property for some passive income. The golfing options in and around Queenstown look spectacular !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

Q4. I do alot of business in Christchurch. Is there any reason why Air NZ doesn't run early morning flights out of Queenstown to arrive in Christchuch at between say 8.00 and 8.30am ... the last flight back leaves CHC at 4.20pm , which again is pretty early. Is this due to the terrain and dangers of landing in the dark ... or is there just no demand.

---

Its one of my favourite airports and I'm looking forward to heading down there again in a couple of weeks. I reckon this is probably the world No1 landing approach!

As I understand it, its a "visual" landing airport where the pilots need to be able to see not only the runway (and lake) from the front but also the mountains on either side of the wing tips.

An alternative when I have got stuck its to drive from Queenstown to Dunedin or Invercargill for flights. But a bit tricky in winter with ice on the roads.

Any other points ...


Lack of early morning and late evening flights and travel time to IVC airport ??
-sorry can't help jetstar is flying here so should be more opts pay to call

Any idea when the new primary school at Frankton will be opening ??
-2010 don't know exact date

Is Jack's Point fundamentally flawed or just suffering like rest of market ??
-Have heard the golf course is world class(hoping to play there soon)
-sections have finally come down to more realistic levels
-As jacks point is located with the remarks on their east side they don't get real good sun till late morning then lose it during summer late.
-Can be bit windy exposed to the south

Is Butel Park a realistic option ??
-Not unless your a polar bear
-or you want to be hit with a large bill to fix the leaking pool

-In all honestly an IMHO for round 700k

-kelvin heights lake views great all day sun at least 700k for an older average house

-Quail rise & Arthurs point great locations good morning sun not so good for late day sun in summer,low wind,nice quite areas closer to amenities

-Arrowtown-older area,good school area,can be a bit more expensive homes $ to Quality
Bad air Quality during winter,further south the better

-Lake hayes est.-great all day sun,localised north of the remarks south side of the valley
great air Quality(no solid fuels allowed)family friendly area,good value for homes 700k will get you 250sqm+ new home 1000sqm+ section-can be colder during winter overnight(closer you are to the lake the better) higher wind during spring summer,no amenities yet!!!

-Frankton-great sun,close to amenties,older area,bit expensive for decent house,no sections.

-As for the other areas-Queenstown CBD,Hill,central,fernhill,sunshine,wilsons bay,frankton road-great for views nice in summer forget it if you like the sun an flat sections.


More opinions would be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by funguspudding

I have owned 2 properties in Queenstown over the years, and observed the ups and downs for decades. It is speculator driven and does not behave like most real estate markets which are usually underpinned by genuine owner occupiers. Same applies to Florida, Surfers paradise, Aspin, and many other holiday resorts. When QT goes dead - it really goes dead, not just quiet. It will happen again, but it's not there yet. Be prepared to rent for a while and study the market. You'll find a bargain, it's definitely a place where the odd desperado has to 'meet the market' on the day - but you'll never build a bargain.

---

-but you'll never build a bargain.[/QUOTE]

-I don't know about that Fung am planning on building my 5th house here soon it's really the best way to get what you want (big garage for me)cost wise I've been talking with golden homes & platiunum both will build round $1200sqm here if you build big 300sqm+ Of course thats pretty basic still $1300-$1400 on a flat section be a nice house.
Of course if your talking of building on the side of a rock yeah don't build.

-If you do build here GGG make sure you get a big garage it's one thing that 99% of houses here don't have..

-GGG If you do make it down feel free to PM me aways keen for a game..

IMHO I still think there is plenty of down side in Queenstown.....I lived there for 16 years and love the place.....historically when large projects finish and the trades leave town the place goes real quite. All the commercial projects are finishing in the next year......Mountaineer, downtown carpark, post office & Kawarau falls etc......Rent for a year to check out all four seasons to get a good idea were you want to live.....After a year the real bargains will start to appear!...Plus it's much better place to live when it's gets a little quieter....Once you have ski'ed the secret chute alone you know you are home ;)

Thanks for all the feedback ... we are leaning towards building our own house. I'd like Jack's Point cos of all the hiking trails and mountain biking plus the fantastic golf course and free membership. Sounds like the sun is OK but possibly lose it quite early in summer ... also may be able to get one of the sections for <$260,000 which would have been unthinkable 18mths ago.

Had the agent up here in Auckland on phone this morning , will be coming round this evening to present offer on our house. Looks like it might all come together, still long way to go though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Financially dependant

IMHO I still think there is plenty of down side in Queenstown.....I lived there for 16 years and love the place.....historically when large projects finish and the trades leave town the place goes real quite. All the commercial projects are finishing in the next year......Mountaineer, downtown carpark, post office & Kawarau falls etc......Rent for a year to check out all four seasons to get a good idea were you want to live.....After a year the real bargains will start to appear!...Plus it's much better place to live when it's gets a little quieter....Once you have ski'ed the secret chute alone you know you are home ;)

---

Yes an no IMHO residential family homes here in good sunning spots are very far an few between as the spec building of these type of homes has become very quite a few years ago,I remember 3yrs ago having to sell my new spec house in Kelvin heights for 100k under R.V which was under well under replacement cost to build was only lucky I got the section real cheap..(thing is I was lucky I sold as it's only got harder till recently)
Talk to the couple honest agents here and they will say how few decent listing they have on the books..penalty units,apartment's,old cold homes which will get cheaper though.

Queenstown property as a whole is a small market when you compare it to the NZ baby boomers looking at retiring round the southern area..so few prime cheap sunning spots left outside Jacks point..

off topic-
over heard a ASB manager talking on the phone today when I waiting to do some banking
she was complaining how they couldn't keep up with the cash in their ATM with some 100k per day being withdraw stating it was the busiest in NZ

I know we have the busiest BP in NZ

Time will tell if the mass slow-down in big projects will push prime property down

Could have a sale up here ....

Better price up a few Icebreaker threads, its fairly chilly down there at the moment.

Yep, I see from the TVNZ weather each night its about -5 o/n and upto +5 during the day. I have plenty of icebreaker from my days living in Blenheim ... a bit of ice is a small price to pay as long as the sky is clear blue all day.

Nice move on the Aussie stockmarket today! Go WPL and BHP!!

Sale all un-conditional up here ... $100,000 profit , private sale. Not bad considering we only bgt it in April.

Wife was in Queenstown yesterday , very impressed with Jacks Point .... however we have decided to move to Nelson and have purchased this morning at $559,000 , asking was $629,000 so we feel we did well. In Tasman Heights with the most spectacular views of Golden Bay and the NW Nelson Ranges.

Reports from agents say the Nelson market above $400k is slow ( hence why felt we could we bargain hard ) but below that is flying with a serious lack of stock in the $300-$375k range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

Sale all un-conditional up here ... $100,000 profit , private sale. Not bad considering we only bgt it in April.

Wife was in Queenstown yesterday , very impressed with Jacks Point .... however we have decided to move to Nelson and have purchased this morning at $559,000 , asking was $629,000 so we feel we did well. In Tasman Heights with the most spectacular views of Golden Bay and the NW Nelson Ranges.

Reports from agents say the Nelson market above $400k is slow ( hence why felt we could we bargain hard ) but below that is flying with a serious lack of stock in the $300-$375k range.

---

Very good was actually looking on trademe for 4-5brm Queenstown homes 600k-1.2m wasn't very many decent newish propertys you certainly would get much for 559k here in a sunny area

I think if we couldn't live here we certainly would like to live in the nelson region

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Great Gold Guru

Wife was in Queenstown yesterday , very impressed with Jacks Point .... .

---

Check out the covernants !!!
Body Corp Rates !!!
Local Body Rates !!!
Cheers BB:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

[/B]
Check out the covernants !!!
Body Corp Rates !!!
Local Body Rates !!!
Cheers BB:)

---

Yeah I think that why they can't sell them that an being quite exposed to the cold southerly's
Certainly some getting cheap 200k etc I remember investors paying 65k 10% deposits back in the boom days I wonder how many investor bothered to pay the rest or just take the loss..