Wine: pleasure and business

Thought I'd introduce this topic. It's fascinating from a connoisseur's standpoint and apparently can also make you money - presumably though wine auctions. Drinking also seems to a favourite past-time of many on this site, with mixed posting results.

I have a cellar of 100+ bottles, some of it very good (eg Neudorf Homestead Pinot Noir), most of it ordinary, and some downright appalling.

A starter question: how do you value wine that had aged if you want to sell it? And where do you sell it?

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quote:As New Zealanders' wine drinking tastes become more sophisticated, more people are following Duke's example and storing wine to get the extra benefits such ageing can provide. And while cellaring wine can involve considerable costs, these are often more than offset by a sharp increase in the value of the stored wine.

In some cases, the returns on properly cellared top quality wine can make more traditional investments seem pale in comparison.

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Source: Sunday Star Times 25/1/04. (Duke is the CEO of Briscoes)

First condition for anybody trying to value it is how has it been stored and where.

THE KING says has two bottles of Penfolds Grange 1989/90, I drank all the rest find it hard to save with a cork screw in the hand, been told the grange could bring in $500 to $1,000 each, but you have to find a buyer.:D

Watching from Australia next Sunday NZ. THE KING

Paddie has 20x4 packs of Guiness in the beer fridge.
Make no mistake, these will not be cellared.

Hic
Paddie[:p][:p]

And some nice Jameson's for desert tonight.

I find that most of the medium range ($50 - $100 retail) that I drink is far cheaper at auction in Wgtn than paying retail. I can go out and buy bottles of Te Mata Coleraine for about $35 at auction ($54 new) I've picked up some 1992 Matakana Antipodean for $45 a bottle a while back (normal retail $195 in Akl, or $345 in duty free akl airport)

It may just be that the Wgtn market has not caught on yet, but generally once you take off your 20% sellers premium etc, it's not a sure fire way to make money.

I however find it a great way to buy up gaps in my cellar, at prices that make them a steal.

I still drink heaps of the $10 - $15 stuff but it's nice to have a few bottles of the more expensive stuff locked away for good friends

That's well worth knowing, Ricky. Where are the auctions?

I've got a workmate who found 6 bottles of whiskey under his house, about 60 years old! Some of the names include McCallam, Vat, White Horse, Seagrams... but it's not in a cask obviously.. so probably has no aging value despite it's age! (bottled around the 1940s)

... or is there some value to it??

I have 2 presentation Kauri cases of Te Motu Cabernet/Merlot '93 & '94 6 bots in each.
Last price I have for '93 was STG19.50 from The Independent in Feb 95'
Be interested to know whether my investment has survived or all turned to vinegar

Dunbar Sloanes

check out http://www.dunbarsloane.com/

Thanks, Ricky. The website's pretty useless as a guide to sale prices. They give the June results but not the catalogue and the October catalogue but not the results. Not very helpful at all.

Awryly...just a bit of lateral thinking required...I've emailed them and will advise in due course

Ari

Your '93 is past it and wasn't that good to start with. Your '94 is quite a different story. Top wine.

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quote:Your '93 is past it and wasn't that good to start with

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That's done it....it's my birthday on Sunday and the corks comin out...I'll let you know:D

Happy (hic) birthday.

Awryly.....could'nt wait, knocked one off last night.Recommendation on bottle was to cellar for a few years to aid softening & integration of natural tannins. Still had too much tannin for my liking although certainly got better. Presentaion case does not look the same with only 5 in it......they will be gone very soon:D
Still would not beat a 1993 'Chateau Le Conte Marquay' Saint-Emilion

Ari

Would be interesting to compare the '93 with the '94. Please send me a bottle of each. :D

Hey, does my bottle of Below 42 Feijoa count?

:D

Nope. S'not un vin. [xx(] And it's not a good investment. [V]

Ari, how do you react to the news that NZ wine producers are going to charge you and me more for the privilege of helping them to sell off their surpluses. Shall we switch to vodka? And allow Wiley Winker to participate in a discussion of fruit-based spirits?

Awryly, I was not impressed. The only way I would find this acceptable would be if there is an exemption for us wine drinking pioneers in NZ.

I am not talking of the early Dalmatians, or the monks at the Mission.

Rather, I speak for all those who endured Cold Duck, Poulet Poulet and similar beverages, while our mates wisely stuck with beer. Persevering through many miserable Sunday morning afters, until wine drinking became an OK thing for Kiwi blokes to do, and the quality improved immensely.

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quote:Rather, I speak for all those who endured Cold Duck, Poulet Poulet and similar beverages

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and a some 'Montana Pearl' thrown in......lovely bottle, but s h i t e the kick.....got them silly everytime....:D

Sobering truth on pinot noir

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/b...thetickercode=

Wonderful news. They can't sell the stuff overseas, they're producing mountains of it, so they'll have to sell it to me - real cheap.

Oh for the days of the revolting bubblies. How did we survive? And Blue Nun was considered classy!

Awryly. What do you recommend for Pinot Noir?

Ouch. There are so many of the top-liners I haven't tried yet - Cloudy Bay, Felton Road, Fromm La Strada, Gibbston, Greenhough, Martinborough Vineyard, Palliser Estate, Pegasus Bay, etc, etc. Many of these are classics and most $50+. (The price is pretty good for what you get. You can pay many multiples of that for imports that are no better quality.)

Of those I have tried, it's hard to go past Neudorf Home Vineyard or Ata Rangi - both in the same category. But unless you're loaded (with dosh and/or booze), you won't want to drink them too often. And they are 'occasion' wines for those with at least a basic palate.

High on my list of good average quaffers are Sherwood Estate and Tasman Bay Nelson. Neudorf also produces a 2nd (or 3rd) tier pinot noir that's a cut above these two in quality and price (about $28). Trouble is it's almost impossible to get. Most of it goes overseas!!

Again though there's heaps I haven't tried.

thought I better but in here, any Pinot made by COW ( Central Otago wineries) Dean Shaw winemaker very good!Part owned by Sam Neill whose Two Paddocks Pinot is very good, along with Peregrine,Kawarau Estate. Nth Canterbury Pegasus Bay & Floating Mountain, I've even heard they grow the stuff in the Pig island also??!!

Ah, a southern man. But you're right, jrbl; the south produces some great and distinctive noirs. Must try a few.

Yeah I'm a bit of a snob, just like I NEVER buy Australian wine, I'm finding it just as hard to buy Nth Island grog, but every time I see martinborough pinot I see huge Numbers attached. Personally alot of the Central grape farmers are 'extracting the micheal' when it comes to price, but some of those Wairarapa growers are dreaming.
Should check out Mountford Estate in Waipara also , they have a blind wine maker so it's a bit cloudy but tastes superb.

Still hard to go past Aussie cab savs - particularly on price.

:DTHE KING says do you think there could ever be a WAR beteen North & South NZ.:D

Regards THE KING

I'm seriously impressed with you Awryly [:X]. Are there any wine pundits you follow who you think are reliably good? I have bought on some pundits recommendations and the wine has been disgusting IMO.

Hello, Cap. I knew you had a heart somewhere. Just a matter of finding the right bait. [}:)]

No, I don't follow a particuar 'pundit'. Some of them seem to make their recommendations at the end of a tasting where they've swallowed too much. Like share brokers, you've got to wonder whether they don't have winery axes to grind.

If I'm in the market for wine, which is not often, I'll read a range of opinion and do the consensus thing. I also have a son who has an haute cuisine restaurant. Since he sells to a reasonably sophisiticated, or indeed sophisticated (hic) clientele, some of whom are likely to have reliable taste buds au vin, I respect his opinions. He's usually there or thereabout.

But,like you, it seems I still have room for disastrous decision-making. I just try to make sure I remember the bad as vividly as I remember the good. And, as always, IMO is not necessarily IYO. :)

Thanks. But no point in dwelling on the bad decisions man. In terms of wine/markets/life, I don't let random incidents dictate the decision making process. If you do you're believing in, and succumbing to, non-existent malevolent forces sticking you with imaginary voodoo needles all day long. When random bad decisions hit me it doesn't bother me all that much. Instead, it will be a temporary annoyance, like when I can't get my goddamn hair the way I want it, or I step in a puddle or whatever.

Anyways I'm off to get a nice bottle of Pinot Noir ;).

"Puddle" is not a good pinot noir.

Anyone have shares in any of the wineries? And why?

There's a neat new way of sampling overseas wines. Horror! Not NZ.

An outfit calling itself Pieroth Wines will come to your home and let you sample its products, most originating from French, German and Australian vineyards.

Had a tasting today. Have always wondered how to get into the Continental thing without spending zillions on crap wines. Of course, these guys have just a sampling of what's available - but you have to start somewhere. Their pinot grigio is amazing and the French cab sav a light world away from the OZ product - not necessarily in quality but in style.

Anyone else been approached by Pieroth?

BTW, did you know know there is a single Aussie winery that produces as much wine as there will be in the NZ 'wine lake'?

The aussie wine industry is interesting. 5 companies comprise 60% of total production, and the rest comes from 1600 other producers. There is a new producer every three days!

Farouk & Mrs F. drank a Ngatarawa Stables Cabernet Merlot 2001 last night, ($14.95 from the local "Smugglers" bottle store). It was magnificent. I'm going back to see if I can clean them out of the stuff, hopefully there are still some left.

Come in, Ari. How did your lateral thinking work out?

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quote:ari

Awryly...just a bit of lateral thinking required...I've emailed them and will advise in due course

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Here's a link to help you minimise the disaster potential in your wine selections.

http://www.cuisine.co.nz/index.cfm?pageID=4&r=0

Interesting article (unfortunately not online) in today's DomPost on the pinot noir international shindig. It points out that noir is one of the most versatile wines in terms of its compatability with food - but if you insist on trying to blend it with seafood or creamy foods you will come a cropper. Then, of course, you'll blame the wine.

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quote:Originally posted by Awryly

Anyone have shares in any of the wineries? And why?

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Hi Awryly
Yes. I hold OBV, the NZAX listed, Oyster Bay Marlborough Vinyards Limited. [www.oysterbaywines.com]
I think that the product is excellent and the company well managed by the 30% owner, Delegat's and with limited future growing land available, wine from this area is unique and over time the value of this area must have strong growth. OBV exports about 90% of production and is well regarded.
Production is growing fast from new plantings and a maiden divi is expected this year, hopefully in excess of the forcast 9c gross [:p].
Worth holding a few shares just for the AGM :D; Lunch, wine tasting and a bus trip arround the companies 3 vineyards [8D].
On current market values in the area I understand that the NAB per share would be about $4.60 which is well above the current price of under $2.00.
Cheers

This looks like a good lurk

Anybody go these auctions

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2845265a13,00.html

But dotted among the prestigious labels at last month's auction were several lots from small and lesser-known NZ wineries, in quantities of 10 dozen or more, and many of these were picked up for a song.

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quote:Originally posted by SCOTTY

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quote:Originally posted by Awryly

Anyone have shares in any of the wineries? And why?

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Hi Awryly
Yes. I hold OBV, the NZAX listed, Oyster Bay Marlborough Vinyards Limited. [www.oysterbaywines.com]
I think that the product is excellent and the company well managed by the 30% owner, Delegat's and with limited future growing land available, wine from this area is unique and over time the value of this area must have strong growth. OBV exports about 90% of production and is well regarded.
Production is growing fast from new plantings and a maiden divi is expected this year, hopefully in excess of the forcast 9c gross [:p].
Worth holding a few shares just for the AGM :D; Lunch, wine tasting and a bus trip arround the companies 3 vineyards [8D].
On current market values in the area I understand that the NAB per share would be about $4.60 which is well above the current price of under $2.00.
Cheers

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Looking strong. Good trades at $2.50. Buyers still 2.50 and sellers @ $3.00.

This is a very well managed company that will shortly gain overdue recognition through the payment of a maiden dividend which I believe could be as high as 12 cents per share.The asset backing should be reflected in the annual report and the land value alone will be over $4 a share.Definetly a share for short and longterm growth.

It was reported in this morning's The Press that David Rankin would accept Delegat's offer for his shares,as"I have reluctantly decided to move on,even though I don't accept that $2.08 represents fair value for shareholders." "Shareholders do not appreciate the time and cost I incurred in challenging the valuations for Delegat's partial take-over bid in 2005." "Even worse,Peter Yealands,who participated in that challenge at huge cost and undertook to raise his opposing bid thereby forcing Delegat's to go to $6 per share for about 28% of everyone's shares has constantly been criticised by the board for costing legal fees for Oyster Bay when he should have been glorified as saviour of small shareholder value."
Sage words Mr.Rankin.I take my hat off to you and Mr.Yealands for your efforts on behalf of small shareholders.To the board of Oyster Bay,I say you let down small sharehoders.To NZX I ask where were you?

A favourite quote of mine from the Axioms of Zurich: "If the ship starts to sink, Jump!" This seems most applicable to Oyster Bay Marlborough Vineyards. The game is over; its time to get out even though the offer from Delegats is stingy. Much worse the consequences of staying in and copping a 1 for two share issue are worse with the prospect of being locked in and having to take further losses

Fact of the Day: Australia has 2-billion litres of wine in storage (859 Olympic pools) due to tariffs from China. – Substack.

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Originally Posted by percy

Fact of the Day: Australia has 2-billion litres of wine in storage (859 Olympic pools) due to tariffs from China. – Substack.

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I'm trying to make a dent in it as fast as I can, but it's slow progress :-)

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Originally Posted by JeffW

I'm trying to make a dent in it as fast as I can, but it's slow progress :-)

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Your post made my day...lol.

Epic thread dredge Percy!

Almost 13 years between drinks, I mean posts.....

I'd pay to swim in a Pool of Merlot,then dive into the Chardonnay. Be hard to keep the snorkel on in diving lessons though and I would find it hard to keep my head out of the Shiraz when testing lifejackets, let alone timing when to roll back up when doing canoe capsize recovery rolls.:)