If National wins ...

Belg ... Maybe we don't mind which two of the major parties get in..eh...both are very good stable political parties with Centre bias

A reference site to look at...Below is an URL to a list of 177 countries ranked from 1 being the worst to 177 the best place in the world using the Failed States index formalae.......I suggest you look at the bottom of the rankings...eh?...hate to see you moving to Somalia (1st) or Chad (2nd)... ;)



Belg since NZ (172) is not good enough..I hope you realise that there isn't many better stable countries in the world to live in....but you are in luck as NZ although close it is not Godzone...Finland (177) has that honour.

So I guess you are moving to one of these better than NZ Countries..eh?..Denmark (173) Switzerland (174) Sweden (175) Norway (176) or Finland (177)...I hope when you move you'll consider flying AirNZ...(Disc: I'm a shareholder:D)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_States_Index

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Originally Posted by Hoop

Belg ... Maybe we don't mind which two of the major parties get in..eh...both are very good stable political parties with Centre bias

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Except this time around Labour propose introducing bureaucracy which will serve no purpose and in fact do more harm than good. Namely the GST and EQC - both complete nonsense. They're not for me.

The thing I can't understand is that Labour and National are coming out with policy that is quite different. e.g. raising retirement age, capital gains tax, asset sales etc yet National still look likely to win easily at the election. I can only think that the greedies(baby boomers) who have had cradle to the grave welfare all their lives don't want to give anything back for NZ's future generations unless it’s their own kids and National is playing to that but do baby boomers make up that much of the population? Could be John Key seems like a nice guy and Phil Goff lacks any charisma and although I say policy is more important than personalities I struggle to be bothered reading the policy coming out in the herald.
Labour has only come out with some sensible sounding policy as they were likely to lose anyway but to me it has greatly improved their appeal. The capital gains tax might be the clincher for me all though fluffing around with GST on fruit and veg seems like a big waste of time and a vote grabbing exercise. Although I would have to wait to 67 to receive any superannuation but if I had my way I may not get any anyway as I think the superannuation surcharge should be brought back in as well as death duties while looking to lower income tax and GST. I also think trusts should be legislated away as I struggle to see any worthwhile use for the discretionary family trust that isn't already provided by limited liability companies. It might save a lot of arguments and legal and court costs as well. As long as Trusts are available to game the system people will use them. Myself included.

Rather than leaving NZ Belgarion why don't you support a party that has policy that is aligned with your beliefs. People don't seem to want to admit supporting any particular party but if more and more respected people weren't afraid to show support for particular parties the rest of us could be more easily persuaded to change.

Although rabid political party supporters on the left or right always come across as a bit extremist and scary.

Too many kiwis see National Super as a "right" not a "privilege". Students used to think that free tertiary education was a "right" not a "privilege".

Disclaimer; Middle lower class, not particularly wealthy but not entirely sure that self interest would swing me another way if I was wealthier.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

The thing I can't understand is that Labour and National are coming out with policy that is quite different. e.g. raising retirement age, capital gains tax, asset sales etc yet National still look likely to win easily at the election. I can only think that the greedies(baby boomers) who have had cradle to the grave welfare all their lives don't want to give anything back for NZ's future generations unless it’s their own kids and National is playing to that but do baby boomers make up that much of the population?

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And some of us baby boomrs have paid a fortune in tax, such as the Muldoon period where my marginal rate was 66%. Do I need the super? No I won't (2 years to go) but for all that, it's a very small rebate on the tax I am paying, so I'll certainly take it, not that I'll use it personally. CGT is prettyt much an envy tax to pacify the masses who seem to think you can buy and sell properties or other assetts and not pay tax, and that's simply not the case. There are big downsides to CGT, mainly it stops things happening, but for all that I'll go along with it as long as it has a repatriation clause similar to USA. Otherwise - forget it.

Automatic stabilisers are the thing.

In biology/evolution the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid don't manage to reproduce and are eliminated from the gene pool.

In politics the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid (a) can't be bothered/understand how to register (b) if they do can't be bothered to vote on the day.

This is a natural automatic stabiliser in favour of National.

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Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky

Automatic stabilisers are the thing.

In biology/evolution the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid don't manage to reproduce and are eliminated from the gene pool.

In politics the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid (a) can't be bothered/understand how to register (b) if they do can't be bothered to vote on the day.

This is a natural automatic stabiliser in favour of National.

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But there are more Pauls than Peters, so socialist parties who always propose robbing Peter to pay Paul have an unfair advantage. Peter doesn't stand a chance. NZ will always favour socialist parties, which pretty much describes all parties with the exception of the Libertarians.

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

But there are more Pauls than Peters, so socialist parties who always propose robbing Peter to pay Paul have an unfair advantage. Peter doesn't stand a chance. NZ will always favour socialist parties, which pretty much describes all parties with the exception of the Libertarians.

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The polls would indicate that there are more Peters than Pauls. I guess National is buying more votes than Labour these elections.

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Originally Posted by Aaron

The polls would indicate that there are more Peters than Pauls. I guess National is buying more votes than Labour these elections.

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Statistics tell us there are more Pauls. The polls tell us that the Peters see the policies that Labour is currently spouting as nonsense.

Note that the reaction of two random passersby that TVNZ stopped for the news tonight was that it was a private conversation - end of story.

Now, if you Belge had a private conversation with a friend and you were seized upon by the media to disclose it (ok, unlikely because you are not a celebrity) and were threatened that unless you disclosed/proved exactly what was in the conversation they would assume you were discussing (a) paedophile sex tours of Thailand and (b) methamphetamine P drug deals
and would publish lurid allegations and stories on that basis what would your reaction be? What would your reaction be if they kept following the same tack?

Have you stopped beating your wife? Answer Yes or No only.

If its ok to beat the News of the World to death for illegal eavesdropping why isn't it ok to beat the Sunday Herald to death for illegal eavesdropping?

If it was all a mistake why didn't the Herald apologise and hand the tape over?

Instead it secretly made another copy of the secret tape and handed it over to another media player. Hardly the actions of an innocent unpremeditated party.

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Originally Posted by belgarion

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...dia-conference

Wtahc the video ... A laugh out loud moment as dear of Key sounds like a broken record ... Now I really want to hear the tape!

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I think its important for a party that is trying to win the election on personality not policy that a discussion that may reflect badly on its most important personality, is not let out of the bag.
The media were there to broadcast smiles and handshakes not to find out what makes the two John's tick and what they really think about things. Media should stick to their job, eh John.

http://soundcloud.com/whaleoil/winst...n-the-tea-tape

I may not get any anyway as I think the superannuation surcharge should be brought back in as well as death duties while looking to lower income tax and GST.

I agree on the death duties ,I know of so many very weathly parents than will be leaving some huge Capital plus 500k+ p.a passive cashflow's to their 2-3 kids that will never have or work a day in their lives...esp when you look at the large imbalance of wealth to the baby boomers a Death duties 10% over 400k-500k assets etc could be pooled into fund that invests into NZ instead of selling are assets we should be building them up.

If Labour wins we all emigrate.
Somewhere the government is perpetually business friendly and non socialist.
Austria, Switzerland, Singapore, Bahamas,....any other suggestions?

All that superannuation stuff is BS. If you are competent and saved and invested all your life you shouldn't need the State crutch.
I'd be quite happy to totally lose my 65+ super....

Although one has to except all those unfortunate people who invested in dodgy finance companies and dodgy enterprises and were defrauded.

I followed the principle that I never invested with a finance company because there was no capital return. A principle that has worked brilliantly for me, nearly all NZ's 53 finance companies went down in a heap. I used to look at the constant stream of mail from companies like Nathan imploring me to invest. As it got more and more frenetic I thought they must be just about to go down. Obligingly they then did. No more nuisance mail from them.
Nor did I buy shares in the companies of any of the 1987 villains like Petrecevic or shady characters like the Hotchin brothers or high flying speculative real estate ventures. Also worked brilliantly for me.

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Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky

Automatic stabilisers are the thing.

In biology/evolution the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid don't manage to reproduce and are eliminated from the gene pool.

In politics the lazy ignorant unwashed and stupid (a) can't be bothered/understand how to register (b) if they do can't be bothered to vote on the day.

This is a natural automatic stabiliser in favour of National.

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Makes you wonder how the right ever gets in in Australia, where voting is compulsory.

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Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky

If Labour wins we all emigrate.
Somewhere the government is perpetually business friendly and non socialist.
Austria, Switzerland, Singapore, Bahamas,....any other suggestions?

All that superannuation stuff is BS. If you are competent and saved and invested all your life you shouldn't need the State crutch.
I'd be quite happy to totally lose my 65+ super....

Although one has to except all those unfortunate people who invested in dodgy finance companies and dodgy enterprises and were defrauded.

I followed the principle that I never invested with a finance company because there was no capital return. A principle that has worked brilliantly for me, nearly all NZ's 53 finance companies went down in a heap. I used to look at the constant stream of mail from companies like Nathan imploring me to invest. As it got more and more frenetic I thought they must be just about to go down. Obligingly they then did. No more nuisance mail from them.
Nor did I buy shares in the companies of any of the 1987 villains like Petrecevic or shady characters like the Hotchin brothers or high flying speculative real estate ventures. Also worked brilliantly for me.

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Major, if it was so easy for you to negotiate away from the finance companies, how is it that so many got trapped with their bank savings? I put it to you that probably the whole finance sector votes National, and it is these scheming rogues who took that money from unwary investors (offering very little extra possible return over bank savings) many of whom relied on their (often well-meaning) accountants and brokers for advice. I dare say you had to be inside the system to be that wary of it. Because there was very little warning going on in the press, until it was too late.

No need to emigrate :-). 48 + 1.1 + 0.7 + 2.8 = 52.6.

Loved the observation that most emigrants to Australia vote Labour which is why the polls in NZ swung to National :-).

OK Major, a great result if you're already set up and prosperous. The top few percent will be happy with this outcome. The rest followed the media and may not have bothered to look hard at the policies. The left voting block was still large, and where National doesn't have many coalition supporters anymore, Labour does. It'll only take a couple of byelections to possibly change things a lot.

I'll be watching for: a release of the tea party recording (which, if it had come out earlier, might have changed the election), confirmation of a zero police intake this year, moves to use the asset sales as a contra for Iwi relativity clauses coming due next year, and sundry benefit bashing and public sector sinking caps. National's message is: the tax take is down (that's their policy, it worked), we can't afford to take a punt with anything anymore.

The tea party recording has already been substantively released by Winston Peters so you are flogging a dead horse, the election's over mate. You lost. Remember? It won't get released.

Reminds me of a famous pack media scrum interview of a witty personality in NZ a few years ago.

Baying media: Answer the question! Answer the question!

Witty Personality: I'm not going to answer it because it's a hypothetical question.

Baying media: In what sense is it hypothetical?

WP: In the sense that I'm not going to answer it. (stalks off smiling).

Leaving all the bystanders and even some of the media laughing.

As for the police intake non-issue - keep up with the news mate, keep up with the news. It's a police decision and they've said the first of the 4 yearly intakes has been cancelled but not the next 3.

Next non-issue? You put 'em up and I'll bat 'em down.

Er, you answered two Major, not the next three, which are the really big ones. Look also for a bigger jobless queue, that won't help any of us.

stability is good for the market, sure...
but asset sales will draw out any surplus liquidity and keep a lid on the markets overall?