Aussie Dividends for NZ Investors

I've always preferred small-cap, dividend stocks, including on the ASX. However, dealing with these seems to gradually get more difficult.

A few years ago, the National Bank introduced a $5 charge for banking overseas cheques (one charge for any number of cheques). Now this has been extended to $15 for no more than 3 cheques. In addition, the time spent standing at the counter while these are processed is mounting up... easily a twenty minute job to bank 5 or 6 cheques at a time. I frequently post cheques to a full-service broker, although they also charge a fee for processing (not sure the actual amount at present) - and this is usually the best option, but costs still mount.

Spreads on FX at the banks are difficult to check regularly, but seem to have widened considerably over the years - I remember them being around 0.8%, but would usually be 1.5-2.0% these days.

My latest issue has been receiving the usual registry letters wanting an Aussie bank account details, but now seem to be saying that they are not going to issue cheques at all - no bank account, no dividend, although it is possible to get the DRP. Taking the DRP is an option, but I prefer not to due to the difficulty of selling between ex-div and payment date - i.e. end up with an unmarketable parcel if this happens.

I have looked at opening an ANZ Australian bank account on line but have been advised that I will be unable to access the funds in it unless I turn up in Australia to verify my identity. I guess this could be worth it, but I don't have any particular desire or other reason to take a trip to Australia at the moment - particularly taking off time during the week to do so. (It is also likely to be difficult to open one for some types of accounts such as an Estate.)

The other option would be to go to custodial arrangement with a phone broker, but then have to incur much higher brokerage and 0.25% pa custodial fee.

Am wondering if anyone has any other clever suggestions that I haven't tried yet to reduce costs?

Hi Lizard

I might be completely wrong here, but can't you get AU dividends banked to a Direct broking OMCA in AU dollars? That was my understanding, but its been a while since i looked at the subject. If that is the case you could open up an account with them if you haven't already. Might be a bit of a pain if you are with another broker though.

Razor

Thanks Razor. I have a DB OMCA account, so I will find out! Can anyone confirm that this is do-able?

Just checked the OMCA FAQ's and found this:

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Can I pay my AU, US or UK dividends to the OMCA?

Clients who have an OMCA and who trade US/UK shares via our Custodial Trading service now have the ability to receive their incoming corporate action funds in the applicable currency – e.g. USD, GBP, EUR etc. You can select your payment method for US/UK dividends by going to My Preferences.

Australian dividends paid to you by Australian Dollar cheque can be posted to Direct Broking and deposited into your OMCA AUD account. Please note that an 8 day clearance period applies for Australian Dollar cheques. The OMCA cannot accept Australian Dollar direct credit payments for Australian dividends.

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So that solves the cost-of-banking problem... but doesn't solve the problem of companies that are moving to electronic-only divs. However, I am thinking that the only ones that can move to this completely must be those with a DRP at this stage, so may have to run with that option. Hopefully, if it becomes more widespread, ASB and DB will come up with solutions.

Lizard Check your Private Messages regarding opening Australian Bank accont without going to Australia

Lizard Do not Forget to take your passport

Hi

Are you looking at retaining the dividend amount in AU$? I get Australian dividends directly paid into regular NZ$ bank account.

Lizard: I have not done this, so am only talking second hand, and don't know the bank concerned, but have been told that after opening an Australian bank account, it is possible to get from the bank a form to use in NZ to verify your identity. The original form must be returned by mail after being signed by whoever it needs to be, think it might be a solicitor?, this will enable you to draw from the account.

I use the BPay system for new issues etc and find it simple, have an Eft-pos card for when we are over there, as well as cheque book which I rarely use.

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Originally Posted by aspar13

Hi

Are you looking at retaining the dividend amount in AU$? I get Australian dividends directly paid into regular NZ$ bank account.

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How does this work (accounts etc) and how did you set it up? I was able to do it with BHP when I held them, but all other company forms have asked for an Australian Financial institution. Someone else also told me today that Computershare offered to do that for them - though only for shares on Computershare registries. I haven't noticed receiving that offer, but perhaps will contact them in that regard.

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Originally Posted by OldRider

Lizard: I have not done this, so am only talking second hand, and don't know the bank concerned, but have been told that after opening an Australian bank account, it is possible to get from the bank a form to use in NZ to verify your identity. The original form must be returned by mail after being signed by whoever it needs to be, think it might be a solicitor?, this will enable you to draw from the account.

I use the BPay system for new issues etc and find it simple, have an Eft-pos card for when we are over there, as well as cheque book which I rarely use.

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I rang three banks yesterday before running out of time - Nat Bank and BNZ told me that they could not open an Australian account for me. ANZ gave me a somewhat amazing run around. In the end, I had to ring their 0800 number 4 times and go through the whole rigmarole of giving my name, contact details and reason for calling and then being told either someone would call me, that the person I needed to talk to wasn't available, that I should talk to someone at a different branch and then, finally was told I could actually open the account on line, with the caveat about having to turn up in Australia. I was assured that they couldn't verify me here in NZ as they were separate institutions.(!). Actually, when I look on line, there is a place to click if you are an Australian resident and a place to click if you are moving there - otherwise it says to call an Australian phone number, which I haven't tried.

Another person has told me that ASB offered to open them a CBA account, but they weren't sure if they were going to have to turn up. I have yet to get any information on Westpac.

From various conversations, it does seem that if you can track down the "right" people at the banks, it may be possible to open an account from New Zealand, but I have yet to locate.

Meanwhile, I did get a response back from one registry where a company has said "electronic only" dividends and was told the company was still intending to pay overseas holders by cheque. I suspect that they are still required to do so under the rules. So it seems I probably don't have to forgo any dividends yet through not having an Aussie account, but still good to find the simplest and most cost-effective route to avoiding the expense and messiness that is increasingly created by handling foreign cheques.

Getting the divs directly into an NZD account could be good. Although having access to Bpay would also be very useful, so I'll keep looking into both options.

I have a margin lending account with ASB. All shares are therefore held in a nominee account. Dividends etc are dealt with by asb and sent to my account after they have received it. Makes it easy to deal with any rights issues etc too, as everything goes through them. No need to worry about missing deadlines and postage etc.

Lizard: From your post it sounds as if you have been ringing the banks here in NZ. I suggest you ring a bank in Australia directly,
perhaps firstly look at their Australian websites and have a good read there, especially the opening an account portion.
I have found local banks, although of the same brand, not connected with overseas at all, and quite uninterested.

My account is with Bank of New Zealand Australia, I have had it for many years, well before things became difficult, BNZA is now owned by National Australia Bank and I am able to use internet banking, print statements etc using their website. Recently they added a new security measure, SMS texting to
authorise BPay payments, similar to ASB Net codes. Whilst arranging this the lady to whom I was speaking commented that our personal details were well
out of date,and needed updating. She offered two alternatives hard copy by mail and then some local certification, or she could arrange the details - rather like opening a new account- by telephone , if she initiated the call on my mobile number that I was using for the SMS texting.
I chose this and all was sorted quickly.

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Originally Posted by OldRider

Lizard: From your post it sounds as if you have been ringing the banks here in NZ. I suggest you ring a bank in Australia directly.

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Good point!

Hi - I have not done much! Filled in the bank account details for dividends and the dividends get deposited - statement shows AU$ dividend amount and NZ$ amount credited. I think that if you put in your NZ$ account details on the form, the dividend will automatically get credited to the NZ$ account.

I bought some Cochlear (COH) shares and on the ComputerShare website, I tried to enter my ASB bank account details for "New Zealand Direct Credit" and the error comes up: "the company selected is not subscribed for this payment type."

Dam what next?

I ran out of time to keep following up options. From what I can find out, it is only some of the larger companies with quite a few NZ shareholders that will do payments direct to NZ bank accounts. The next things I am going to do are:

1. Check with the ASX and/or some of the registries to find out whether companies are legally required to send payments to foreign holders without an Australian bank account. So far, I am thinking that companies may still have to send cheques to people in this category. I have recently had some notices implying that they may not, but when I checked with the registry as to this, was told all foreign holders would receive cheques. So long as this remains the case, I will at least keep receiving the divs and the main issue will be the cheapest/easiest way to bank them (sending them to the DB OMCA is looking the best option, but I need to check if they charge any fees for banking them).

2. Check with the ANZ in Australia via their phone-line as to whether they can help me open an Australian Bank account from New Zealand in a format that I have access to funds.

3. Check with several brokers that I deal with as to whether any of them can suggest/help the process for opening an Australian bank account from NZ that is verified for access.

Lizard Read Post 575 on the Direct Broking thread Alice Saville is now back on duty

Thanks Possum. Just working through all the options.

So far, have confirmed that Direct Broking will bank cheques into the OMCA without a fee and just post in with name and account no. on the back.

DB are going to get back to me on option 3.

May have to have another go at getting them to open an account for the Estate fund that I also look after, as this proved too hard last time, but probably should try talking to Alice.

This is the response received from the ASX in response to a query as to whether it was obligatory or optional to pay dividends to overseas holders by cheque should they be unable to receive dividends by direct credit. I take this to mean that the company needs to provide a cheque (although perhaps the first sentence implies that the registry may not necessarily undertake this for them?)

I might need to go back and check with a few of the registries regarding point 2, as that seems to suggest that any dividend should be able to be paid to a NZ account.

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Thank you for your email.
Please be advised, we do not impose any rules directly on the Share Registries which pay dividends to shareholders.
Dividends paid in cash can be received:
1) by cheque (sent to your registered address); or

2) by direct credit (currently this facility is available for shareholders in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States).

It is obligatory to provide shareholders the above two methods of receiving dividends – ultimately it is the shareholder who makes this choice.

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Hi Liz,

All very frustrating! I wrote to Link Market Registry a few days ago asking if and/or when APA would direct credit divs to a NZ bank account. Reply:

"Please be advised APA can only pay directly into an Australian Bank account. If in the future this changes you will be notified via post. "

So I have replied asking if I should direct my enquiry to the company itself. I already receive a dividend by direct credit to a local bank from another company on the Link Market Register, which I have pointed out in my reply.

I stopped short of quoting point 2) in your reply from ASX! And now I'm really :confused:, regarding the obligatory bit..".to provide shareholders the above two methods"??

The way I read that, we should by obligation have two choices available, right now.

Hi team,

You can open an Australian bank account over the internet, but you then have to front up and prove your identity.

I did this in July, and the process was really easy. I also opened secondary accounts, changed account types, and a whole host of other little admin-type things

And it's a useful excuse for a day or two in Sydney.

I have now established that it is possible to open a verified Australian Bank account without leaving New Zealand through the ANZ. However, the process is not well established and many branch staff may not be aware of it, so you may need to visit your branch with the instructions for them.

Instructions for the staff member:
1. Visit the ANZ Intranet - "Max" - and search for "Australian Account Opening Customer Staying in New Zealand"
2. In the search results select the first option "Work Aids"
3. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the option for a customer staying in New Zealand

This should give the ANZ staff member the info they need to help you. Basically, the process should involve them:
1. Ringing the Australian call centre or getting you to ring them and open the account
2. Printing off a form and filling it in with details of your ID for you to sign and taking copies of your ID

You need TWO forms of ID (I used passport and drivers licence)

The process took me about 25 minutes. I was advised to open an Access Advantage account, which will give me on-line and telephone banking, cheque-book, atm card (credit card if I wanted it). This account currently carries a $5/month account fee, which is something to be aware of when comparing options for dealing with divs. I believe the verification will take 3-5 working days, so will not be able to withdraw money until after that (I'm still figuring out how to get the money in!).

They gave me internet banking customer number and telecode which I used to register for internet banking as soon as I got home. My account was already visible. They also gave me a Swift Code that can be used to deposit funds from here if needed - they suggest $50 deposit to activate the account, but I am currently trying to see if I can divert any dividend payments that way in the next month, as the ANZ staff member said she thought it would cost me about $25 to get the Swift transfer made from my bank.

Unfortunately, I haven't had much success with the registry sites yet, as Computershare keeps going down while I'm trying to register today and Boardroom I could not find a password for, as I've tended to throw those away in the past. Oops. I can see there could still be a bit of time involved in getting the whole process working smoothly.

I think it is probably possible to link the ANZ Australian account to some broker cash management accounts - would pay to check. This might provide the simplest way to move funds between Australia and New Zealand.

Lizard,

You have done well, though I am surprised your new account has monthly fees, do you get interest perhaps on your balance?
My BNZA account has no charges, interest paid monthly at 0.1%! Other NAB accounts similar, with the same
facilities as your ANZ account. If cash builds up a term deposit is easily arranged via internet

Once you manage to register with Computershare you will find some advantages, you shouild be able to easily enter your new bank account and direct payment there, as well dividend payment payment slips can be printed on day of payment. For me Link registry is a better website, I've forgotten about registering
with them but think it was easy, there are one or two others as well, once set up life gets easier. For many companies you can as well
register your vote for company meetings

Please continue with your experience, transfer of funds between Australia and New Zealand or viceversa is still a problem for me, as yet I have not been able
to link my brokers cash management account with the BNZA account. I try to avoid transferring cash and changing currencies, if I have to I just write a BNZA cheque and deposit it at Westpac locally, costs $5 fee plus exchange loss, the other way I make a phone transfer from Westpac to BNZA costs $25 I think,
I have on occasions subscribed to SPP's directly from the brokers Australian Cash Management accout, cost about $25 if I remember.

With careful planning these transfers are only occasionally required, but it would be easier if able to do them electronically

Thanks Old Rider.

It is interesting to compare notes on the fees. I thought when I got into the bank that I should probably have researched the options before I did, as I hadn't given much thought to account fees or types, presuming there would be only one type available. However, I couldn't go with the BNZ option as they could not open me an NAB account from here - at least as far as I got with them. One bank I have still to try is ASB - I am told they can open CBA accounts, although need someone else to confirm if they can be verified for access from NZ.

Have tried again with computershare, but so far found that only two of my holdings came up on first attempt and am wondering how many log-ons I may have to create in order to find them all or whether I need to somehow load each of my holdings back to the logon I've created. Perhaps related to one of the problems I have with the old full-service brokers - they have hardly ever managed to keep two separate purchases of the same stock on the same SRN, even when I've quoted them my existing SRN number.

Lizard now you have Australian ANZ bank Account get them to open an online saver account which pays 4.75%interest & you can then transfer money electronically between your two accounts instantly.Also if you contact Alice Saville at Direct Broking she will link your OMCA A$ account to your Access Advantage account at the moment there are no fees for this as far as I know For transferring money between them.

Lizard

I decided to have our ASX holdings CHESS registered, sounds if yours are issuer sponsored. There are advantages/disdvantages each way.

Your broker would probably transfer Issuer sponsored to CHESS without charge if you went that way, not the other way though cost about $50 a company
if I recall correctlyto remove, you are right about the time it takes to get things organised, hopefully some of our posting here will enable others to get things right from the start. It was some time ago that I reorganised things but I recall a problem and wonder if it might be similar for you, I have limited experience with
SRN holdings having shifted all to CHESS some years ago, prior to registering with Computershare

The problem I remember though was that all the ownership titles for shares must be absolutely identical, right down to the same spaces, for recognition to take place, eg J B Smith seen differently to JB Smith, diffeerent or missing Post Codes messed it up as well, certainly all SRN holdings for each company needed to be amalgamated under the one number and then the title to be set exactly the same prior to any transfer to CHESS. All took time but worthwhile in the end.

Thanks Possum. As I understand it, this is possible to transfer between DB OMCA and ANZ Australia account but maybe not quite as straightforward as a NZD transfer. Does not look to involve fees at this time. I think it is a case of "contact your broker" on this one.

I was offered the chance to open the on-line saver, but will probably tend to move money out to other places before it builds up to enough to make a difference. That is a good rate though. Am guessing it will be easy enough to either open one on line or via call centre if I decide it would be useful. Had to have the Access account first either way.

Thanks Old Rider. Things keep evolving and mine seem to have become quite complex - made worse by the levels of security now required for most things.

I've got too many accounts and brokers and will need to rationalise. There were reasons for all of them and it has been hard to know which way to go. I think the full-service brokers have contributed to the problem - somehow their entries seem to be more manual. I don't think they offer CHESS either - it is either issuer-sponsored or custodial with annual holding fee. Although there is one account I have where the broker automatically loads custodial unless I ask for scrip and they don't seem to charge - or at least, I haven't noticed any fees going through. Though brokerage there is enough to more than compensate them!

What an interesting thread.Well done Lizard and others for your hard work.

Lizard as little as $2000 in the online saver account will cover your access advantage accounts fees & you can do most banking operations from the online saver account. I usually run a positve balance of Approximately $40.00 & do all transactions bar the odd cheque out of the online saver account including B/PAY payments for rights issues.

Well no sooner do I figure out a way to open an Aussie Account for the divs, but IRD are onto it... :)
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/busine...sourced-income

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Inland Revenue is warning taxpayers to make sure they declare all income from foreign sources.

The department says it's aware some people may have taxable foreign income held in overseas bank accounts which is accessible in New Zealand.
It says people who conceal such income are cheating other New Zealanders by not contributing their share of tax, and face stiff penalties. PricewaterhouseCoopers chairman John Shewan says it's a timely reminder from IRD. He says people who have offshore bank accounts are taxable as New Zealand residents, not only on the interest income they derive - which may be quite minor - but more also on the foreign exchange fluctuation.

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Now I have no problem declaring the interest, but I am still not certain how we are realistically supposed to calculate foreign exchange gains on a transactional account. I guess if they ever audit me, they will be able to demonstrate. Although I suspect John may be over-complicating things for me. :)

I am taking heart from the fact that the IRD Alert does not appear to refer to tax on foreign exchange gains, but rather on those hiding income/assets altogether.

And here is the brief from IRD as to what tax liabilities are to be considered on a foreign account:
http://www.ird.govt.nz/international...tments/#credit

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Originally Posted by Lizard

Now I have no problem declaring the interest, but I am still not certain how we are realistically supposed to calculate foreign exchange gains on a transactional account. I guess if they ever audit me, they will be able to demonstrate. Although I suspect John may be over-complicating things for me. :)

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John tells it like it is. Forex gains/losses on financial arrangements are taxable on an unrealised basis.

It isn't too difficult if you get a template in excel set up correctly.

Hi CJ,

Can you provide a link to refer to that outlines the rules around that?

I've spent a good hour or so on the search and best I can find to read is this:
http://newzealandtax.com/index.php?p...l_Arrangements

However, I can't find any reference in there to bringing exchange rate gains or losses to account except under item #20 - which seems to specifically say that they aren't (at least for the typical personal investor).

Any help much appreciated.

Oops - forgot about 'cash basis persons' which mean it is on a realised basis.

Since Johns comment stated this, read page 11 and 30 for the PwC guide:

http://www.pwc.com/en_NZ/nz/tax-fact...gures-2011.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CJ

Oops - forgot about 'cash basis persons' which mean it is on a realised basis.

Since Johns comment stated this, read page 11 and 30 for the PwC guide:

http://www.pwc.com/en_NZ/nz/tax-fact...gures-2011.pdf

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Thanks CJ. That guide is much clearer. For the few of us on ShareTrader who have less than $1m kept in bank accounts and bonds, I guess we don't need to lose sleep over the unrealised forex changes in an Australian bank account. :)

Slow progress with getting the Aussie account running... decided to only put one payment to the account and wait to make sure I could access it before adding any others.

So far, have not received the promised cheque book or credit card, nor have I been able to link to my OMCA, as ANZ have not sent a suitable letter showing full account no. and address - the one received so far didn't meet ANZ/National Bank ID standards, as only had the account number. I guess the branch address at the top is not enough to match with the BSB no. I had been verbally given and/or can produce from screenshot? Anyway, all credit to DB for their effort to date, and the ball is in my court to get another letter from ANZ.

It is possible that the letter, cheque book etc have been waiting for money to get into the account - something I could only think how to do by getting a transfer out of the OMCA or wait for a dividend to get paid into it. Managed to get first funds in via dividend on Friday, so will see if that triggers anything this week.

On another front, I received the first dividend statement where a company didn't pay me the dividend because I did not have a bank account - although it is held on my behalf somewhere, so I can still access it by sending them an account. I may actually write to MFG regarding this - they promoted their MFF fund in New Zealand and rights to shares came with the fund. So to not pay a div to those Issuer Sponsored holders in NZ who do not have a bank account seems a bit poor. Possibly they would have sent a cheque if I had written - there was mention of cheques being issued to overseas holders in certain circumstances in the original documents... however, I would think there might be a few NZ holders who bought into the MFF float who would own only a small amount of MFG shares as a result and who might not find the stamp or costs of opening an Aussie bank account to be worth the dividend.

Sounds like no one wants your riches eh Lizard

Keep persevering and good luck

Makes me feel lucky retaining an Aussie account I opened zonks ago when i was over there ... prob not kosher now under all the current rules and regulations but it still lets me put money in and take it out

Well, just to keep updating the saga and next chapter in the book of "what it takes to be a DIY investor in the modern age"...

... rang Australia today to find out why no cheque book, card or letter yet and was advised that my account had not been activated yet as had yet to complete the "100 points identification" (whatever that means). I explained that I had completed a form and provided two forms of ID as required and that these had been provided by the ANZ advisor in New Zealand in early October. They said I needed to visit the branch again and complete the "100 points identification". I asked if they could explain what that meant, since my NZ advisor must have done it incorrectly, but they said they could not tell what had been done wrong and we agreed that I would visit the branch.

On reflection (given I'd be unlikely to complete this in under an hour), I decided to try ringing the branch instead. Stupidly, I had not written down the name and number of the advisor I'd spoken to - you would think I would have learned by now - so it was back to the 0800 line. After getting put through to the branch and then describing the advisor and some discussion over hair colour/style (am sure my husband would have failed this test), I finally got hold of the advisor who (yay!) remembered me. She said she had faxed the documents as per the instructions on the intranet and would re-fax. I asked her to ring Australia first and check if there were any further requirements.

Apparently she did, as I later received a message that they had suggested she post the documents and that they also be scanned and e-mailed, so she had done that and now has her fingers crossed for good measure. I guess that will require the standard box of chocolates (or has New Zealand society progressed to $20 notes slipped between application forms and I've missed it?). Anyway, fingers crossed that the verification will be sorted and, as the advisor noted in her message "these things are not always plain sailing". :)

Meanwhile, my e-mail to MFG advising them of the difficulty for New Zealand investors in requiring them to have an Australian Bank account in order to receive dividends has gone unanswered. Strike two.

I don't know how you do it.!!!!!
I tried to redeem some fly buy points on line tonight.Couldn't remember password,then they said I got my date of birth wrong.!!!! Yeah Right.!!!
If you manage it I will give you an impossible challenge.Try it with Westpac!!!!!

For your edification!

http://www.australianaustralia.com/p..._Australia/190

So there you have it. Quite a process, even in person in a Darwin branch of National Australia Bank in August. We were there for over an hour! Never has opening a bank account taken so long.

I still found it somewhat surprising that for years, we in NZ have had to get put through to a computerised verification system to verify ourselves by entering PIN numbers when talking on the phone to the bank... but in Australia, they just ask me to tell them my Telecode.

Received two Aussie dividend cheques in the post today.
Contacted Craigs to see whether I was still able to pay them into my Craigs Australian Cash Management account.
Yes just post them into us.
Thank goodness for that.
Where possible I take DRP.

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Originally Posted by percy

Received two Aussie dividend cheques in the post today.

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so last century! :p

Percy have you checked with the companies whether they will credit a NZ bank account. I used to have PTM shares and they were geared up to do it.

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Originally Posted by 777

Percy have you checked with the companies whether they will credit a NZ bank account. I used to have PTM shares and they were geared up to do it.

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I have TLS and SUN (AUST) both credit dividend's directly to my Direct Broking NZ$ account,

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Originally Posted by 777

Percy have you checked with the companies whether they will credit a NZ bank account. I used to have PTM shares and they were geared up to do it.

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Some are starting to do so.