Building Society Holdings (BSH) is now Heartland NZ Ltd (HNZ) so might as well start a new thread with the new name.
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Building Society Holdings (BSH) is now Heartland NZ Ltd (HNZ) so might as well start a new thread with the new name.
Seems the silk purse remains a sows ear........
Obviously ACC does not share the pessimistic view of the above posters as a SSH notice today says that they now own 5.64% of HNZ. Like me they see more of the "Promissed Land" to come.
As mentioned previously on the BSH thread, it will be interesting to see where reinvestment rates sit going into the end of the govt guarantee, as Heartland seems to have more reliance on guaranteed deposits than the other affected institutions. Interest rates on debentures should be a pointer as to how things are going (particularly relative to any movements in bank term deposit rates).
So here is the picture of rates as they were from March until around the time of the recent PGC vote meeting:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...8apr11.png.jpg
And here is the current:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...-jun11.png.jpg
The change is pretty subtle - in the 12 month and 18 month rates, which have crept up just 0.25%. However, by comparison, I would estimate that the typical bank term deposit rate has fallen by 0.5%, so the spread against banks has been widening.
No worries here yet, but worth watching.
NZX have announced Hearthland is to enter the NZX-50 index on June 20 (and PGC will exit it.)
ACC do have (or at least did have) a good record, but not for reasons of immediacy.
Levies pay the claims of today. The reserves are for the long tail typical of a compensation book that may need to pay long term injury claims years so there is very little that needs to be immediate beyond standard cashflow /treasury / cash management needs that the levies already meet. ACC are typically profitable on a cashflow basis and have little need to tap technical reserves - it's on the long tail actuarial view that reserves need to be established for.
This is also the secret of how private Worker Comp companies make money in other countries - they trade on smaller insurance margins because they understand the funds may be captive for decades before being required for claims so investment returns are consequently higher then a short tail insurance book like say State Insurance's who have to pay for Motor claims in short order.
Heartland New Zealand to acquire PGG Wrightson Finance
http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/HNZ/...ghtson-Finance
Well it wasn't exactly a surprise :) Seems a fairly conventional arrangement I guess. Good to see an assurance there will be no EPS dilution resulting frm the placement. I wonder how much in excess of 10% the ROE will eventually be? I'm not that confident it will be much, but would like to hear others opinions on that.
I am waiting for the announcement of SPP, so i just need to spend $30+ for the engagement of SPP:)
The article by Tim Hunter in today's Sunday Star Times on Heartland is well balanced and fair.
"And while there are undoubted risks that Heartland will not achieve its goals,its management have so far demonstrated a clear strategy and excellent execution.
On those grounds it may earn a place in the portfolio."
Yes Percy a well balanced article but I hope Hunter wasn't swayed by what Cairns from Forbar told him .... that guy is more passionate about PGC/HNZ than you are
As long as HNZ remember that at the core of their business is 2 old fashioned Building Societies they should do OK - building societies that traditionally solid instutions which for generations have taken members savings in and prudently lent that money out on rock solid investments without taking on much leverage and associated risk.
Go too far away from this principles and think they can make zillions from a different approach then maybe the aspirations wont be achieved
Bit of a worry when that head finance man says 'Heartland aims to encourage depositors by becoming a bank, reasoning that people are more relaxed about putting money in a bank than with a finance company' So is becoming a bank just one big (and expensive) marketing ploy
This is what happens when Building Societies become financial instutions with a treasury department and change their business model .... and probably why the world is in such a mess today
A great article by John Kay in the Financial Times - We let down diligent folk at the Halifax
http://www.johnkay.com/2008/09/24/we...at-the-halifax
Even if you don't read the whole article (it is a short one) read this bit
The business I joined gathered deposits from small savers, mostly through its branches. It lent the proceeds to house buyers. Founded as a self-help organisation by provident Yorkshire folk 150 years ago, the Halifax became the world’s largest mortgage lender. Its quality of service and competitive interest rates trounced conventional banks in the UK retail savings market. The simple business model was very robust. In the early 1990s, a combination of high interest rates, recession and falling house prices posed much more serious problems for UK homeowners than anything seen, or likely, in the current credit crunch. But the Halifax remained profitable and mortgages readily available
Accepting deposits and underwriting and administering mortgages requires that millions of records should be maintained and updated every day with almost no errors. This activity does not require flair or imagination but does require conscientious individuals with integrity and loyalty. The Halifax was a precision machine that made the most of the talents of ordinary people. I came to understand the fundamental incompatibility of the cultures of retail and investment banking and why the marriage of the two so often leads to tears.
Accepting deposits and underwriting and administering mortgages requires that millions of records should be maintained and updated every day with almost no errors. This activity does not require flair or imagination but does require conscientious individuals with integrity and loyalty. The Halifax was a precision machine that made the most of the talents of ordinary people. I came to understand the fundamental incompatibility of the cultures of retail and investment banking and why the marriage of the two so often leads to tears.
(Really a story about business sustainability but thats another topic)
It is going south :( ... Seems PGC is holding up better than HNZ right now...
If there are shares issued,and you don't take part,then your holding will be diluted.
I think Belgarion is refering to the discount to net asset backing of the SPP,but I'm sure he will elaborate.
Small investors can buy a few now and take part in the spp at a price which will either be better than (possibly much better than) or the same as other institutional investors.
They can also wait until after the results are out to make a decision on making an investment of up to $15,000 - these results are going to be fairly critical in giving some insight as to how HNZ might perform in the future, so that is a considerable amount of de-risking around their purchase.
However, the only thing not clear to me is what the cut-off date for owning shares in the spp is. The details are due to be announced by tomorrow - given the spp is going to open on 8 August, it is possible there may not be much time/too late to get on?
(bought a few anyway at 62cps - am assuming there is a reasonable chance of getting access to the spp still)
There will be a few fund management institutions with their noses out of joint? Underwriting to be done without them being involved and they have been doing their usual selling down in anticipation that they will get reset via the underwriting.
Underwritten by Impact Capital Management - formed July 1 2011, 100 shares, 100% owned by Impact Capital, 100 shares, owned by Greg Tomlinson, involving Richard Oliver
Seems like GK is having to call in favours from old Macquarie mates to get these deals away............
Hmmmm... Liz could be right... Holding but not salivating.... Yet !!!..
Just nosing around at the companies office and noticed there are approved name reservations there for Heartland Insurance Ltd, Heartland Kiwisaver Ltd, Heartland Trustee NZ Ltd, Heartland Building Society Ltd, Heartland Wealth Management Ltd.... at that rate, I half expected to come across a "Heartland Property Management Ltd" :) (No, there wasn't)
Not sure if they are just covering off the bases or an indication of strategic direction?
Would think they are just covering bases,making sure no one else uses their name.Marac had insurance,so expect that is now Heartland Insurance.Trustee they would need,kiwisaver I don't know,building soc would be to cover the building socirties that joined Marac to form Heartland.
"Property management" may still be, and most probably remain a swear word for some time as that was Marac's down fall. Maybe in a year or two.!!!!
Not a holder Winner69, but I am becoming very uneasy about Heartland. What do you think of this observation?
I am presently visiting the Kapiti Coast and have read today's edition of the Dominion and the local rag the Kapiti Observer, both dated Wednesday 20th July.
On page B7 of the Dominion is an ad for PGG Wrightson Finance, an organization which seems inevitably destined to become part of Heartland. They are advertising a 12 month secured term deposit offering 7.5% per annum. This is despite the small print in the ad that notes any such investment will become a deposit with Heartland that will consequently be unsecured in a couple of months time (no mention of that last clause in the ad of course).
Then on p13 of the Kapiti Observer, a real 'heartland' publication (sic), Heartland are offering a 12 month term deposit rate of 6.25% per annum. This seems to be quite a big gap for what is ostensibly the same investment, even allowing for the fact the 'small print' shows that the PGG Wrightson Finance 7.5% rate is for investments of $100,000 plus.
The headline on the Heartland ad states 'We invest in Wellington'. Immediately I am thinking, no you don't! You are primarily the old Southern Cross and CBS Canterbury Building Societies, investing in the heart of the South Island. Oh and you are also Marac investing in the manufacturing heart of Wellington (yeah right, let me know if you can't count any manufacturer's left in Wellington on one hand!)
I can't help the impression that Heartland is really old rope painted and tarted up as a new frilly bow knot. The marketing budget is being spent to allow the paying of lower interest rates to depositors than a BBB- credit rated organization might otherwise offer. Pull the wrong string and the whole lot might unravel. I really, really hope that I am wrong.
I would like to see Heartland succeed. I think NZ inc. needs it! But is a 'Salt of the Earth' name and a hyped marketing budget really the key to the path of success?
SNOOPY
discl: Hold PGW, who are in the process of divesting PGG Wrightson Finance.
So much to learn.. So little time..
Oy vhey !!..
Thank you all for your input..
Snoopy - you probably also heard the ads on the radio as well --- all day long -- and playing the 'we invest in Wellington' card as well ... actually stressing that as well
The marketing machine ramping up .... haven't seen on TV yet ... an old wise guy once told me he never invested with any finance company that had to to resort to TV .... and cited all those that had been on TV and then gone bust
And yes I do find that statement from the head finance honcho a bit strange and a bit of worry
Every second car yard in NZ most probably uses Marac to finance their car,truck sales.If you look at any Marac/Heartland you will see their lending is spread through out NZ.Largest is offcourse Auckland area.
Most banks have at one time or other advertised on TV.Heartland is a "new" brand, so expect a lot of advertising.
Deposit rates vary with any organisation.Heartland is no different. They will just be trying to keep their book in order.
What is interesting is Lizard's earlier posts as to how Heartland deposits are stacking up for when government guarantee expires.Maybe all will be OK,but looks as though banking licence is going to be a must to get them through.
I will not be ading to my holding until I have seen result,although they have achieved everything they said they would do,and on time.!!!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/5317...and-share-plan
A bit more infor on Greg Tomlinson, the underwriter to Heartland's capital raising.
He is certainly going to do a lot better than George Kerr in terms of his entry price.
As one star brightens, the other dims.
Re Snoopy's comments, I checked the BSH merger presentation and that gave the combined geographical breakdown, with 7% of receivables and 8% of deposits coming from Wellington.
The rate on offer seems quite high at 7.5% - considerably higher than the 6.75% for a similar deposit on their web-site (annual interest payment). But the timeline for becoming non-guaranteed should be the same whether the deposit remains with PWF or moves to Heartland (i.e. all lose the guarantee at 31 Dec when it expires).
I have been following the Heartland interest rates, expecting them to move up to attract sufficient investors to remain with them. However, there have been only very subtle moves of around 0.25% increase in 9-18 month rates to attract investors beyond the end of the guarantee period. They have probably been fortunate in that bank rates have been falling and gifting them a wider spread over bank rates (which are generally below the recent CPI rate for now). The most recent moves at Heartland have been a reduction in the short term interest rates, further pushing investors towards "beyond the guarantee". Also of interest is that the MAR010 (2 yrs till maturity) are trading at around 8%, which suggests the market is reasonably comfortable with Heartland - it's a similar rate to the GFN030 (Guinness Peat) or the IFT150 (Infratil), although those both run until 2015.
While I think it is right to be cautious over their advertising, the crucial difference over GFC advertisers is that it seems many of them were seeking deposits to paper over impairments or capitalisation of interest. In Heartland's case, they have the challenge of re-building investor confidence heading beyond a period where investors can see their deposits as safely backed by the government.
The recent announcement of a June renewal rate of 82% intrigued me, as I wondered how it was achieved, but perhaps advertising is involved. Certainly they will need to stabilise deposits before they can start to go forward, so this is a critical phase for them. PWF actually appears to bring a less risk-averse depositor base, though possibly along with more scope for future impairments. If they are racking up the interest rates at PWF now rather than tarnish the Heartland rates to attract deposits, then that is an interesting marketing move too. Will have to see if I can find that ad...
The SPP discount is going to be "at least 3%" or around 2cps to the average price in late August - not exactly the most attractive SPP IMO.
So in that case, we can presume they will also want the VWAP to be at about 67cps during the price-set period to avoid giving anything extra away to retail investors? If that's the case, it might also be better to just buy on market now at 63cps, instead of gambling on the spp price being lower than 65cps. Although achieving 67cps VWAP might not be simple with the set period occurring post-result.
I'm still not clear what day the result is actually released, but presumably prior to open of trading on 19 August. Also note this is one of those spp's where investors won't be sure what price they're getting until after the spp closes, so will probably want to hold off committing funds until the last few days of the offer.
As shakespeare once said... "To buy or not to buy: that is the question". :-)