The Idea of a National/Green govt

Let's Do this!

https://www.change.org/p/bill-englis..._variant=combo

It may be like seeing a unicorn for the first time but who knows :t_up: I signed the above petition. #ConsiderOurVotes

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Originally Posted by RGR367

Let's Do this!

https://www.change.org/p/bill-englis..._variant=combo

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That's ridiculous. National is so far removed from Greens social and economic pipe-dream socialist policies there would not be enough common ground to last them till morning tea. Bright red is the new green.

On Kiwiblog yesterday - What could the Greens get if they went with National not Winston? Possible accommodations in exchange for abstaining on confidence and supply. Some good discussion but strongly suggest stop reading posts made after about 6pm yesterday, at which point posts deteriorated rapidly.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/09/w...t_winston.html

'Our job is to form a government with Labour' Buried

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Originally Posted by Joshuatree

'Our job is to form a government with Labour' Buried

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They certainly will be.

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Originally Posted by Joshuatree

'Our job is to form a government with Labour' Buried

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There was me thinking their job was to be champions for the environment. And how better to do that than have a meaningful seat in Government.

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Originally Posted by minimoke

There was me thinking their job was to be champions for the environment. And how better to do that than have a meaningful seat in Government.

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The Greens are not savvy enough to realise that going with National would give them a real voice for once in their long history, they would rather pay lip service in a 3 way coalition and stick to their pig-headedness.

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Originally Posted by couta1

The Greens are not savvy enough to realise that going with National would give them a real voice for once in their long history, they would rather pay lip service in a 3 way coalition and stick to their pig-headedness.

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Shaw is the most pig-headedness of them all

Real disappointment is that guy - he seemed to be the one to make Green a real party and has blown it conpletely

They'll moan and winge about this and about that for another three years and nobody will listen .... and hopefully reflect on the lost opportunity (even if it did mean selling their soul)

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Originally Posted by winner69

Shaw is the most pig-headedness of them all

Real disappointment is that guy - he seemed to be the one to make Green a real party and has blown it conpletely

They'll moan and winge about this and about that for another three years and nobody will listen .... and hopefully reflect on the lost opportunity (even if it did mean selling their soul)

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Sad really isn't it.

I think FWIW, that we might all accomodate a voice for the environment in either the left or the right, but these idealogical tossers in the Greens don't seem to have any clue about how to get into Government as a minor party, in order to put into effect the essence of their ideals!

I heard today a summary of all the things they've managed to accomplish whilst not in Government, and it's fairly impressive but not overly convincing or inspiring, you'd think they would FINALLY decide that conceding some of their idealism to hold a seat in power, albeit a minor party and tenuous, would further their ideals moreso than being in opposition or worse on the back benches.

Some just persist with cutting ones nose off to spite ones face, this sums up the Greens IMHO.

Lol sorry but no matter what you or the media or national stooges etc say or think or summarise we will just have to wait on winston first ;that sums it up really.

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Originally Posted by winner69

Shaw is the most pig-headedness of them all

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I think James Shaw is wonderful. He is a principled man who is committed to shifting the wealth from the haves to the have-nots. And totally dedicated to ensuring the dream of being carbon free remains a dream and if our rivers ever needed a loud voice his will be much louder in offices that used to be filled with more people. Parliament I think needs Bridesmaids and there is no-one more practiced at this than James and his Crew.

And isn't it wonderful that Met Tu can spend some time in her castle in Dunedin. Frolicking around a big old stone building might be good practice for whatever her future may bring her.

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Originally Posted by Baa_Baa

I heard today a summary of all the things they've managed to accomplish whilst not in Government,

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I like Lists - especially short ones

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Originally Posted by Joshuatree

Lol sorry but no matter what you or the media or national stooges etc say or think or summarise we will just have to wait on winston first ;that sums it up really.

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I feel for those silly Winston first MPs sitting around all day talking about Allah knows what, pretending to decide who will be the government, when Winston knows already, but the miserable old bathplug won't tell them.

Greens almost certainly will get anther seat; if Labour do too that will certainly be a boost for their chances. A one seat majority wouldn't cut it.

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Originally Posted by Joshuatree

Greens almost certainly will get anther seat; if Labour do too that will certainly be a boost for their chances. A one seat majority wouldn't cut it.

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Lets assume you are right. That would give a Labour (46 seats) / Green (8 seats) / NZ First (9 Seats) coalition of 63 seats. National (56 seats) and ACT (1 Seat) would be in opposition with 57 seats. Giving a the Coalition a 3 seat buffer.

This means for the coalition to work there cant be any more than 2 fruitloops (oops I mean people with integrity and a conscience) in the coalition who are a risk of crossing the house. Bwahahaha

Anyone here prepared to pick Greens ending up with 9 seats and NZ First with 9 as well?

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Originally Posted by minimoke

Lets assume you are right. That would give a Labour (46 seats) / Green (8 seats) / NZ First (9 Seats) coalition of 63 seats. National (56 seats) and ACT (1 Seat) would be in opposition with 57 seats. Giving a the Coalition a 3 seat buffer.

This means for the coalition to work there cant be any more than 2 fruitloops (oops I mean people with integrity and a conscience) in the coalition who are a risk of crossing the house. Bwahahaha

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It's odds on that we normally have a byelection or two in each cycle.

Fortuitously, since neither the Greens or NZFirst won an electorate seat, it would only be a Labour seat that potentially would be lost that would halve the projected majority or make it disappear in a bare majority situation.

Labour won few rural seats apart from West Coast so it's the Auckland Mount electorates, Beltway seats, Christchurch and Dunedin that they need to shore up...

And hope no Labour/Green or NZ First backbencher crosses the floor - remember Labour were exposed over foreshore and seabed when Turia resigned Parliament and won the byelection as an independent.

I don't think she was a fruitloop at all. Even if you don't agree with her politics, she had the integrity to resign, seek and have an elected mandate to resume in Parliament and did a deal with the Key government.

If there is a left bloc, they'd better be mindful that they pay more than lip service to Treaty and Maori issues because the clean sweep of the Maori seats is both a strength and a weakness.

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Originally Posted by Rep

If there is a left bloc, they'd better be mindful that they pay more than lip service to Treaty and Maori issues because the clean sweep of the Maori seats is both a strength and a weakness.

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And that left bloc need to be mindful of NZ First stated policy which is:

MĀORI SEATS REFERENDUM

• Māori don’t need the Māori seats. They don’t need tokenism. That is why we commit to a referendum of all electors to retain or abolish the Māori seats.

SERVING MĀORI INTERESTS

• Ensure that all policy-making is based on need and not on race, creed or colour.
• Restructure the Ministry for Māori Development.
• End Whanau Ora and redirect resources into programmes that work for all Māori.
• Encourage Māori to build houses on collectively owned land.
• Strengthen the structures of the Māori Women's Welfare League, Māori Wardens and Te Kōhanga Reo.
• Address entrenched problems associated with the rating of multiple owned Māori land and rates remission.
• Ensure that the role of the Māori Language Commission is focused on actively protecting Māori language and culture, not under the guise of a Treaty obligation, but rather because they are the indigenous language and culture of New Zealand.

THE TREATY OF WAITANGI

• The Treaty should be a source of national pride and unity and not used to expand the separate rights of Māori or anyone else.
• The Treaty is not part of the New Zealand Constitution. It is not capable of supporting the extraction of so-called ‘principles’ for any legislative or government purpose. Ill-defined and abstract ‘principles’ are a recipe for legal and constitutional misunderstanding and dispute.
• The Waitangi Tribunal must fully, fairly and finally complete the settlement of all outstanding claims. New Zealand First believes in the concept of a fair go for all New Zealanders and this includes settling genuine historical grievances.

And best I dont say anymore on those Maori seats or how these policie could play out as it will only get me into trouble

Greens just gifted National their questions during Question Time. That will put a dampen on Green MP exposure. Must be some quid pro quo in there somewhere. Labour / NZ First ought to be a bit worried

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Originally Posted by minimoke

Greens just gifted National their questions during Question Time. That will put a dampen on Green MP exposure. Must be some quid pro quo in there somewhere. Labour / NZ First ought to be a bit worried

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Mr Shaw said Greens are not keen on patsy questions. Not surprising - he looked like a dork when answering a series of patsies on the census.

I don't think we should be reading anything into the Greens gifting their questions to National. They have a history of criticising the "patsy" questions and would look silly to then use it themselves as soon as they have an opportunity to. I give them credit for trying to look credible, which they're probably desperate for as they hardly get any media exposure under this Government setup !!
Labour and Winnie will be fuming they did this

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Originally Posted by iceman

Labour and Winnie will be fuming they did this

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No no no, Ian Lees Galloway was saying Labour were pleased with this....

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Originally Posted by iceman

I don't think we should be reading anything into the Greens gifting their questions to National. They have a history of criticising the "patsy" questions and would look silly to then use it themselves as soon as they have an opportunity to. I give them credit for trying to look credible, which they're probably desperate for as they hardly get any media exposure under this Government setup !!
Labour and Winnie will be fuming they did this

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I dont recall any rule that says a question has to be a "patsy". What they have done, if nothing else, is loosing an opportunity of media exposure which will be given to National during Question Time.

Perhaps this is also a step where the Greens distance themselves from the mess that Labour is currently in with covering up the sexual abuse during the Labour Camp. Greens have been as silent as Tamiti Coffey.

Agree there are no rules that say they have to be patsy, but majority of them always are. I agree with you about the Greens losing an opportunity to use this for furthering their profile, but understand their reasoning for it. I hope National shows some fairness and appreciation and uses many of these questions in the environment arena.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Agree there are no rules that say they have to be patsy, but majority of them always are. I agree with you about the Greens losing an opportunity to use this for furthering their profile, but understand their reasoning for it. I hope National shows some fairness and appreciation and uses many of these questions in the environment arena.

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I am still at a loss with the reasoning. Also no rule that I know of that says if you have questions you must use them.

We have Greens gifting national questions. Labour gifting National an undercover scandal. What has NZ First got up its sleeve to share in the festivities ( I dont think Ron Marks use of helicopters really counts)

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Originally Posted by minimoke

I am still at a loss with the reasoning.

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It's known as Kermit logic.

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Originally Posted by minimoke

I am still at a loss with the reasoning.

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I assume it is caused by internal rumblings with week after week of internal polling showing them below 5% and making no progress in grabbing media headlines. Went from 14 to 8 MPs last election due to Labour's success and the more popular Labour is the less The Greens get and vice versa. They know this and know they need to differentiate or die.
So they are trying to get any publicity they can get about doing what they said they'd do and this is an example of something they constantly criticised in opposition.

They are in a hopeless situation really with this coalition setup. Winston sure knew what he was doing there !!

For as long as this man hating Green Fruit Loop is around I'm hoping there is no National Green coalition. But more proof that the Ministry of Women's affairs isn't required and Ministers here get there via promotion to their highest level of incompetence. Her attempt at brainwashing children doesn't wash with me and I'm only thankful my kids have moved on from Cobham - saves me writing some terse letters to the Head and Board chair. Genter needs to realise there is only one requirement to be on a Board - and that is "competence". I guess she gave the kids one lesson - it is possible to make a racist, ageist and sexist statement all in one sentence.

More here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...company-boards

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Originally Posted by minimoke

For as long as this man hating Green Fruit Loop is around I'm hoping there is no National Green coalition. But more proof that the Ministry of Women's affairs isn't required and Ministers here get there via promotion to their highest level of incompetence. Her attempt at brainwashing children doesn't wash with me and I'm only thankful my kids have moved on from Cobham - saves me writing some terse letters to the Head and Board chair. Genter needs to realise there is only one requirement to be on a Board - and that is "competence". I guess she gave the kids one lesson - it is possible to make a racist, ageist and sexist statement all in one sentence.

More here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...company-boards

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Is Logie still in the Kermits? She was the world champion man hater. Beats Genter hands down.

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

Is Logie still in the Kermits? She was the world champion man hater. Beats Genter hands down.

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By the looks of it she is. That is one man hating bunch there, and I include the 2 Beta males (if they can be called male)

https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and...-seating-plan/

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

Is Logie still in the Kermits? She was the world champion man hater. Beats Genter hands down.

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She's still lurking but yet to put here head up and come up with ideas to solve domestic violence and sexual abuse. I can imagine she in currently in a mental tail spin at the moment trying to process a Man (Obama) suggesting women should rule the world for a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by blackcap

By the looks of it she is. That is one man hating bunch there, and I include the 2 Beta males (if they can be called male)

https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and...-seating-plan/

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The sad thing is that this motley lot are disguised as an environmental party, which is sadly lacking in NZ in true form

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Originally Posted by minimoke

For as long as this man hating Green Fruit Loop is around I'm hoping there is no National Green coalition. But more proof that the Ministry of Women's affairs isn't required and Ministers here get there via promotion to their highest level of incompetence. Her attempt at brainwashing children doesn't wash with me and I'm only thankful my kids have moved on from Cobham - saves me writing some terse letters to the Head and Board chair. Genter needs to realise there is only one requirement to be on a Board - and that is "competence". I guess she gave the kids one lesson - it is possible to make a racist, ageist and sexist statement all in one sentence.

More here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...company-boards

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Man-hater are you feeling threatened, im not.

Here is another "man hater" for you.:)

Obama and the wāhine

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Originally Posted by Joshuatree

Man-hater are you feeling threatened, im not.

Here is another "man hater" for you.:)

Obama and the wāhine

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No I dont feel threatened as I stand by my abilities. And also my ability to put that forward when the need arises.

But I do have empathy (that's the feminine side of me) for men over 60 who Genter labels "old" when she has no idea of what they are doing (possibly a whole lot more than their "younger" counterparts), for "white" people ( I know from experience a comment like that if used in the context of another race would get you served with a ban off this site) who are inferred as incompetent simply due to the colour of their skin; and for men as a whole who are still struggling with David Cunliffes "I am sorry for being a Man" as if being male is somehow offensive.

The idea of a national green coalition is now a little more appealing given old man hater Julie Ann Genter got well and truly burnt in the green co leader race.

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Originally Posted by minimoke

The idea of a national green coalition is now a little more appealing given old man hater Julie Ann Genter got well and truly burnt in the green co leader race.

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Yes. It will be interesting to see which 'co-leader' emerges as the 'leader of the co-leaders'. My pick is Davidson will blow James Shaw into the background.
And where's the gender balance gone in the Greens? Aside from the co-leader nonsense the party is 75% women.

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Originally Posted by minimoke

The idea of a national green coalition is now a little more appealing given old man hater Julie Ann Genter got well and truly burnt in the green co leader race.

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Ms Davidson is hard hard left, envronmentalist not so much, so not a good fit with National. Since the vote for her was a landslide, do we assume that the membership is also hard hard left? (Now the old white environmentalist men have gone.)

I wonder if the 'old white men' publicity hurt Ms Genter's chances. If so that is very weird since it likely to be a view shared by many members.

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Originally Posted by artemis

Ms Davidson is hard hard left, envronmentalist not so much, so not a good fit with National............

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But it does mean that any increase in votes for the Kermits will come from Labour and Winston First, which would cause Winston first to disappear. National will surely be happy with the new Green leader, even if Labour aren't too chuffed.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=12027466

Oh dear. Labour really are upset with the new half-leader of the greens. Could be some fun and entertainment coming up for us.

Davidson in, co-leader Greens, no chance in hell now of a National coalition. Like National ever thought it likely or wanted it. End of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Baa_Baa

Davidson in, co-leader Greens, no chance in hell now of a National coalition. Like National ever thought it likely or wanted it. End of this thread.

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Agree with that Baa Baa. Davidson is a hard left socialist that is more interested in protecting beneficiaries than she is in the environment. We will see a new green movement forming in the political middle somewhere, as it should always have been.
I would not be surprised if such a new movement made it to Parliament in 2020 or 2023 with TOP and the Greens in current form and NZF will both disappear.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Agree with that Baa Baa. Davidson is a hard left socialist that is more interested in protecting beneficiaries than she is in the environment. We will see a new green movement forming in the political middle somewhere, as it should always have been.
I would not be surprised if such a new movement made it to Parliament in 2020 or 2023 with TOP and the Greens in current form and NZF will both disappear.

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TOP will never make it.

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

TOP will never make it.

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I am not so sure !
But where is EZ ? has he totally given up on his $15B hole Government !?

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Originally Posted by iceman

I am not so sure !
But where is EZ ? has he totally given up on his $15B hole Government !?

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Been busy, Iceman. And keeping my head down.

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Originally Posted by elZorro

Been busy, Iceman. And keeping my head down.

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Fair enough mate and totally understandable. No supporters of Winnie/Taxinda would want to keep their heads up !

Well I'm thankful Fruit Loop Genter didnt get the nod. Shes banging on again about a Zero Road toll policy again. For a start it is unachievable unless we take cars off the road. Even EV's would have to go. Secondly our road toll is the lowest it has even been in real terms. Hit a high back in 1973 with around 850 deaths when our population was under 3 mil. Current deaths around 380 with a population of 4.5m. And you'd also have to ban stupid people from driving. (Like those in EV's who travel 80kph on the open road)

That road carnage is not a ‘toll’ anymore mini.

calling it something else will eliminate the problem I reckon



P

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Originally Posted by minimoke

Well I'm thankful Fruit Loop Genter didnt get the nod.

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Fruit Loop Genter may be, but Davidson is even more scary. She is a real activist from Nam!

Apart from that agree with you about the road toll. I keep saying to the Mrs that every time they use nominal figures about our toll going up they fail to mention that there has been a steady decline and that in deaths per 10,000 cars (or whatever metric you want to use) it is not increasing but static at worst.

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Originally Posted by blackcap

Fruit Loop Genter may be, but Davidson is even more scary. .

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Talking of scary Jam Logies been quiet for a while. In the interests of equality do the Greens have an internal policy of taking turns to say outrageous stuff?

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Originally Posted by minimoke

Talking of scary Jam Logies been quiet for a while. In the interests of equality do the Greens have an internal policy of taking turns to say outrageous stuff?

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No. Quite obviously they are at liberty to continually spout total rubbish. If they were on a quota system Ms Logie would have used hers up in her 2011 maiden speech, where she described herself as a 'lefty, feminist lesbian.' That was the accurate and sensible part.

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

No. Quite obviously they are at liberty to continually spout total rubbish. If they were on a quota system Ms Logie would have used hers up in her 2011 maiden speech, where she described herself as a 'lefty, feminist lesbian.' That was the accurate and sensible part.

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Ah - that wil explain Golriz Ghahraman claim the other day that NZ does not (like Trumps Muslim ban) accept refugees from the Middle East or africa (Here at 6:30 http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/...ghahraman.html) but if you look here (https://www.immigration.govt.nz/abou...uota-programme) you'll see NZ actually does.

And this is after her at 5:00 going on about source checking and being vigilant about news in a democracy. Who knew how much rubbish can come from one mouth

The question now is: will teh Greens be around next election for National to form a coallition with. Perhaps not. You have them gobbling that big fat rat - teh Waka jumping Bill. And now we have Co-Vice President Marama Davidson reckoning women need to reclaim teh C worrd.

I'm a bit of an old fuddy duddy and I reckon teh C word is disgusting and has n place anywhere. It certainyl does not belong in an anti-racism speech. Women do not need to be empoered by claiming it back.

She has lost the plot. And I am blowed if I can see what this has to do with green environmental policy.

Rod Donald must be squirming in his grave and those "greenies" above ground must be wondering where there party has gone. The two that got biffed out dodged a bullet there.

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Originally Posted by minimoke

The question now is: will teh Greens be around next election for National to form a coallition with. Perhaps not. You have them gobbling that big fat rat - teh Waka jumping Bill. And now we have Co-Vice President Marama Davidson reckoning women need to reclaim teh C worrd.

I'm a bit of an old fuddy duddy and I reckon teh C word is disgusting and has n place anywhere.

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Have you never had a work mate drop something on your foot?

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Originally Posted by fungus pudding

Have you never had a work mate drop something on your foot?

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That would get an S or F word response but I wouldn't call him a C word. I need to broaden the range of people I mix with!

I thought The Greens had a couple of other MP's I must have been mistaken
https://www.greens.org.nz/send-your-...-our-green-mps

Me too. ......