Perhaps the smart money was waiting for ALF's confirmation of the Five Mile sale - ALF up 17% today.
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Or the really smart money its sitting quietly in KIPGC where investors therein sleep extremly well at night while the GFC rages on around them and they pick up a solid 8.95% return and wait for everything to get cheaper.
Enumerate, why would the end of year financial statements be any quicker than the interim ones, perhaps there could be some speed increase because the Auditors are slightly more familiar with AH's incredible corporate web, but any significant increase in timeliness would appear to be unrealistic....but then again, oh i'd better not go there again.
Disclosure of Interest, I have quite a few of the abovementioned security.
If you cite your references you will read that the Stat Manager is referring to investors in Aorangi that could include some Hubbard interests. Hubbard is referring to non-Hubbard interests. Apples and oranges - if you care to cite the proper details. Also, Allan says "approximately" - maybe he is recounting from memory as at that time he was in Statutory Management.
No here you are being more mischievous. As far as I can tell, Allan has not expressed any view on any of this - it is you putting words into his mouth. You are also representing the Statutory Managers position with a great deal more definition than even the Statutory Manager, himself.Quote:
Alan reckons its a Mortgage Company. The Stat Man thinks its morphed into a finance company
Alan says it has loans and mortgages. The Stat Man reckons the money has gone, in part, to AH's own financial interests and trusts. Some loans appear not to be secured by land and some loans appear to have no registered security.
Alan is silent on Aorangi money going into Trusts (Otipua Charitable Trust, Oxford Charitable Trust, Regent Charitable Trust, Morgan Charitable Trust, Benmore Charitable Trust, and
Wai-iti Charitable Trust.) formed in March 2010 into which he was transferring his personal assets.
Alan is silent on Aorangi money going to Te Tua Trust. The Stat Man says this Trust was giving interest free loans and it seems some of those loans are in arrears.
So ... are you laying a trap for those with weak minds and a nervous disposition?
I am reminded of my Kipling:
There, much better now ... words should be used to express the truth about things ... not "twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools",Quote:
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
Nothing beats a bit of Kipling ...
You guys finally seem to be agreeing that Alan's money go round stopped functional a little while ago ..... once his access to SCF cash dried up Alan, Aorangi etc etc was broke .... the cupboard was bare ..... probably couldn't pay any interest (in cash) or repay investors anyway
Somebody needed to sort the mess out .... both for investors and SCF sake
Where's Balance when you need him ... maybe he is feeling the squeeze?
I am aware that there are at least three of you guys against just me ... I currently have you all totally outnumbered ... maybe Balance can join to restore the ... Balance.
The references are:
- First Statutory managers report available here: http://www.interest.co.nz/sites/defa...July%20(2).pdf
- Press release issued by AH on 21 june and available here. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1006/S00574.htm
I accept that AH says his figures are approximate. However I do not accept that a man who does business on a handshake and note book does not have a closer recollection of the fund details - especially when he was aware that people were looking at his books. It is he that is quoting figures to support his position in his press release - it is for him to be as accurate as possible or in the alternative remain silent. It is he that chose to leverage his integrity in the press release - a man of integrity might also have mentioned the other issues being looked into (like the other trusts) to provide a fuller picture. You'll note I chose not to even raise the issue of Hubbard Financial Management in that post - having done so at this time could well have been mischievous since we don't know much about that and AH sure hasn't let on anything
This is sure an enlightening thread. You've bought us Ayn Rand and Kipling in just two days. Hopefully we are in for more treats as the SCF safge moes on.
where is Balance ?
well I'm just a Business student in the first week of 2nd semester and I cant keep up with this thread on top of my necessary reading so I wouldnt be surprised if actual working people cant keep up!!
So how would Kipling interpret this chain of events.
Someone quotes Alan Hubbard as being an incredibly generous man (the citation will be on the Facebook site somewhere)
Now Farmer Brown has a spare $500k and decides to invest it in a mortgage company called Aorangi.
Its an investment so he expects a return on that investment.
Being a mortgage company he probably figures the money is going into a mortgage. He may even presume that where that mortgage sits in priority ranking will be reflected in the interest earn on his investment. Being a Farmer he'll probably understand a mortgage is for something to do with land and or buildings. Also being a farmer he's probably had his own mortgage at some time and will recollect signing documents with the lender. The guy behind the Mortgage company is an Accountant - all be it a tad old fashioned - but even in the good old days ledgers were kept and the quill was never far from a pot of ink. And as a religious man (hear goes my turn now) he might refer to Deuteronomy 23-20 "Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury..."
So he slips the old accountant $500k to be invested in a mortgage.
But what does he discover a bit further down the track. A Stat Man report which suggests:
- his money which he though went out as a mortgage may not have had land as a security
- if it did go to land it may not have had the land as security and the security of that land was held by a superior lender
- the money did not go to a "foreigner" but to a "Brother"
- that Deuteronomy (23-19) has been taken literally and money lent to the Brother has been on lent and not been charged interest.
So it seems it wasn't Alan who was being generous - but his "Brother"