That's why I like ASB or DB they are big fish in a small pond, I dont want a Halifax type scenario with the size of my account.
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But from what I read at the link above, in the event of Sharesies going bust, the liquidators would not have access Sharesies Nominee Limited. They would be liquidating Sharesies Limited, not the Nominee Company. At least that is how I am reading it.
“If anything were to happen to Sharesies Limited, your money would still be safe because it’s held completely separately in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository! We hold your money and investments in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository ‘on bare trust’. This means we’re holding it on your behalf and in our name, but they still belong to you. We can’t do anything to your money or investments unless you tell us to (e.g. when you use Sharesies to deposit/withdraw money, or buy/sell shares).
Agree, it should be safe, its just that you do not 100% know that sharesies actually do put the investments into Sharesies NOminee Limited. And Trust have been busted in the past by good lawyers. Who is to say nominee accounts cannot be busted either. But I am no expert in these matters at all, just have a passing interest. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify the matter.
One needs faith that they keep doing things properly
Are now offering live market depth for the price of $10 per month. That seems very reasonable.
From this week’s Sharesies newsletter:
Last week was a record breaking week—with 9,700 new investors joining Sharesies, and a whopping $81M being traded via Sharesies into funds and companies!
In the next couple of months, we’ll be adding US shares to Sharesies—giving you more access, and more options to grow your wealth! We can’t give you an exact launch date just yet, but we’ll be sharing more details with you as we go. To get early access, register your interest on the Sharesies website.
Sharesies is possibly having a bigger impact than we think.
NZX advise that volume has increased four times since a while back.
Their website says they did $38.8 billion last year. which is only 100 mill per day
They say in a video that they did 1.3 billion last week.
I see Sharesies announced they did a record 80 million in a week.
If Sharesies are creating significan transactional volume increases , on only 80M a turnover week then they should be pushed to the side of the road. That is less than 20% value on a normal week. But it will only be 5% of the increased volume so they are a piddle in the bucket and yet are stuffing up the system.
BBMP
Bring Back Minimum Parcel sizes (honestly its not that much)
Long term view would seem to be that all of the new investors can only help the NZ share market. Advantages would be obvious...makes for more liquidity across the board as well as allowing access to another form of investment rather than just Term Deposits, kiwi saver and lotto tickets. :cool: Also many of the new entrants will continue on and become bigger investors as time goes by. More investors help drive up prices which benefits existing holders. Short term problems obviously for the NZX adjusting technology to cope with new growth but one assumes that will be overcome sooner rather than later. I think its great that there is another generation of investors created here. When you think about an investor just using a couple of hundred dollars it may seem a bit futile to a seasoned investor, but when you view it as a cumulative exercise and also consider the number of investors, it looks completely different. Go Sharesies. :t_up:
No I'm not bitter but its finance not tiddlywinks.
I have followed your posts and fully applaud your investing and the strategy and totally agree that diversification is important for any portfolio
but even you aren't buying 3 shares or 27 shares you're buying small parcels that cost $500 minimum and that's totally cool.
I bought my first bond from Northern Territory Australia for $A500 - that was the minimum size and still wasn't worthwhile when I took exchange costs into account.
There must have been a reason for a minimum parcel and now we know what it was.
I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant. More fool them if they did not see the enthusiasm that the ordinary folk had for investing in shares and being able to make their own balanced portfolios with minimal $.
I am in the process of making my own index fund, which I will manage and invest in on my own behalf. Now with Sharesies it is possible to do something like that even with a portfolio value of even say $25k. In the past it would have been prohibitive.
Mmmm .... I have no idea why you think that, but no I am not.
Prior to covoid I was investing $40 a week, split between 4 holdings. One of which is USF. So every week I was buying 1 point something of a USF share, and varying small amounts of my other holdings. Lately, I have not been making regular weekly orders but buying here and there as funds permit, if I think there is some value in buying. Yesterday I bought 30 something shares.
Which, as far as I am concerned, is also “totally cool.”
How are you accomplishing this in a NZ market presence by sector / industry? The NZ50 alone is too risky with so many in that list that will be destined for bankruptcy. Will you be tracking every stock in that sector and do all the rebalancing? How about the high commissions for making trades ; which will reflect in your annual cost? If lowering risk through diversification is your strategy, i'm afraid you won't do it in the NZ market.
We have crossed paths many times justakiwi over the past couple of years on this forum. If you recall, I made a response that it was more likely a stock market crash were to occur and it's not so strategic to put all your $ in a timely way of investing (ie in weekly contributions like Kiwi Saver). I mentioned to the person wanting to start investing, I replied that there would be a high probability of a stock market crash in the near short or long term future because we've come a long way since 2008. Now here we are justakiwi witnessing this major global crisis. WTI crude oil has crashed to negative territory (never in history has this happened).
What does this mean from now on? Well, to those starting to invest, i'm afraid they would be in a better position than those that have stayed invested for the past 2 or 3 years. This is the reason for the increase interest in investing as we've see by the Sharesies data.
I will be using the NZ50 as a proxy. In my younger years I used to administer a passive NZ fund. Its not that difficult to do in Excel. I will have parameters so that rebalancing only has to be done weekly (or monthly) and there will be some leeway in the requirements to avoid unnecessary transactions. Brokerage on Sharesies is so low that this is immaterial. Other passive funds also have brokerage to contend with yet its not a problem for them. As with passive funds, I will not be trying to pick winners or losers. Just invest within the parameter and get the index return (including the management fee which I will pocket myself) Ie not have to pay Smartshares their 0.54% per annum or whatever it is these days.
If technology had made it the concept of minimum parcels redundant then its quite likely we wouldn't be having these problems would we?
Although I do agree that NZX have miscalculated regarding the impact Sharesies has had so ultimately it is their fault and not Sharesies. Exchanges should be able to cope with much larger volumes than their daily averages
But I still think its worthwhile some cantankerous old rissole like me pointing out where the problem (probably) arises from.
And I've also pointed out - sometime before the Corona crash - that all these tiny investors signalled the end of the bull market. Oddly they are staying around tho so clearly we have a lot further to fall.
I cannot see what the problem is? if you look at the traffic on the sales and buys to me it looks like the Sharesies investors are doing quite a bit of buying. In order to test it out I joined up and made a few buys...its very simple..well designed...operates quickly and buying on market my buys were literally filled (and showed) instantly. Admittedly this was on a fairly quiet performer but when I looked at the sales you could see that 90% of those showing were Sharesies people (smaller quantities). My take on this is, firstly buys, though probably smaller individually, actually added up to something more substantial when you put them together. AND this was enabling the largeish sell order to be fulfilled, even if it was in smaller chunks. Dare I say it but sharesies is possibly helping the market from falling further. See below the DB sale chart for Augusta a minute ago....all look like Sharesies
Recent Trades Price Volume Time Cond 91 2 12:26 90.5 49 12:17 90.5 25 12:17 90.5 28 12:17 90 16 12:00 90.5 2 12:00 90.5 108 12:00 90.5 22 11:59 90.5 11 11:48 90.5 44 11:46 90.5 220 11:29 90.5 146 11:25 90.5 11 11:24 90.5 55 11:07 90.5 28 10:57
The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
.
The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.
NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.
No I absolutely understand that the capacity is compromised, but as I mentioned earlier this is probably something that will be in the process of being fixed. Its the period in between that is frustrating for investors. As a website builder (but not programmer), I know that it takes time to get things changed and improvements made...and ..all at the time when the s**t hit the fan. One would assume that when the agreement was made between Sharesies and NZX, the NZX engineers worked on the assumption that they could build into the system gradually as the levels grew. Unfortunately, the triple whammy of bear market, covid-19 and huge influx of new investors from Sharesies has buggered the "graduality" of it. Important to recognise that the Sharesies is not to blame however. I think we can all recognise that more investors is good overall and hopefully improvements will be forthcoming soon. :)
not really !!
coz the NZX has made a mistake where the impact goes beyond themselves - after all this is a regulated monopoly provider
The people who pay most of the fees in the industry generated through transactional costs (I.e the decent sized players using online brokers or even standard retail brokers ) are being penalised with delays all so that a lot of penny and dime transactions (generating hardly any fees for anybody) can be dealt with.
It doesn't seem quite fair to me.
However let me make it quite clear that I don't personally care myself all that much ! Because I day trade using a CFD provider and invest using an online broker where minute by minute prices are not so imperative that I can deal with it using limits etc. Hence why I have chastised Sharesies for causing the problem I have also suggested day traders use a different mechanism , one that is more able to provide instantaneous results.
all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors)
<subject closed from me>
I am sorry I am costing you money. Sincerely.
Probably best.Quote:
all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors
Quote:
<subject closed from me>
Maybe the cost is being subsidised. But that is because the NZX have set the rules the way they have set them. If you don't like it don't play in their pool. Seems like you have done that already with your CFD positions.
I too have done that, now using Sharesies more than I would use Direct Broking. If everyone left Direct/ASB and went and used Sharesies it would be problem solved and everyone benefits. It is Direct Broking and ASB that need to adapt or they will become the relics that got taken over by digital disruptors. If the NZX does not allow them to adapt then they need to lobby the NZX or change their own business model. Direct, 20 years ago, was the disruptor themselves and which I was part of instigating. They may need to evolve again.
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/r...0J67oBQeN5gn7c
Refreshing to see somebody also sees this as a positive.
Yes, which is as you would expect, but I think it also shows that the world of investment is changing, and there is room for all of us.
EDIT: Just saw this in Sharesies “Lunch Money” newsletter
6 May 2019:
43,000 investors
$13.8m invested through Sharesies
6 May 2020:
146,000+ investors
$370m+ invested through Sharesies
There is a place for us.
Yes there is of course but the cost (not always $ cost) of divvying up parcels into less than $500 should fall on Sharesies administration not on NZX
I reckon they NZX caved in because they are shrinking from no new listings and needed revenue so badly that they couldn't negotiate a good deal with Sharesies. But hey pure speculation on my part.....
The question I have though Peat, is is there a cost to the NZX of having a bunch of small trades go through? I understand in the past that brokers were not happy with odd lots as there was a lot of registration and administration to contend with (especially before CSN). But now with shares held in nominee by Sharesies, I fail to understand the cost that is imposed on the NZX for the small parcels that go through the screen. Maybe a bit of bandwidth but apart from that nothing else.
I was listening to a presentation by Mark Peterson (CEO of NZX) a few weeks ago. He implied that the delays etc were not an NZX problem but rather a broker back office problem.
That is at odds with the NBR presentation of things. But either way, it means the NZX or brokers need to get with the times (ie the digital age). They have not invested enough in that space is the conclusion I draw.
Wow that would appear to be bull dung of the greatest order
Even NZX released a statement saying it was them
"NZX has experienced several technical issues in the last six trading days. The root cause of these issues appears to stem from a significant increase in trading volumes "Although I note it later says "
The incidents primarily involve NZX's clearing and settlement system, which has come under significant pressure as it also acts as the gateway to report trade notifications and undertake shareholder balance enquiries for certain market participants." …..as if to say that that there are different systems reporting trade notification and s/h balance enquiries for different participants.
I honestly thought NZX had accepted responsibility for the delays.
That is what I had thought too, but Mark from what I heard seemed to be blaming the brokers more than the NZX. Either way, the NZX have allowed Sharesies to operate on their platform, just like the algo traders, and if theirs systems are not up to it then they need to solve them. Then again they do run a monopoly so what would they care if they annoy Direct and ASB. Mark Peterson should know though, until recently wasn't he the CEO of Direct Broking?
Just wondered if those using Sharesies have any particular strategy? Usually I buy via ASB and have 3-5 NZ holdings. Didn’t investigate Sharesies till recently. Decided to dollar cost average into a NZ agriculture (wine/fruit/fish) basket If my choosing which is kinda cool. Thinking about doing the same for farming and forestry (probably using proxy’s such as POT).
https://moneykingnz.com/buying-share...irect-broking/
May be of interest. I’ll be staying with DB with my fingers crossed it gets a refresh at some stage.
Apologies if posted elsewhere.
Got an email with new site for DB going live next month. Those happy to be the Guinea pigs and test drive it get one free trade.
I'm happy to play possum from time to time but I'm happy to let others iron out the flaws and play Guinea pig.
On the Sharsies thing, yeah I think its great that this makes investing affordable and enables newcomers to get into a wide range of investments but its not for me, I like my investments in my name with absolute and total control over them.