I hear what you're saying but the big difference is (considerate) smokers etc only damage their own health whereas anti-vaxers in a pandemic infect, damage & even kill others.
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https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...d-rentals.html
The housing disaster worsens (hard to believe it can get any worse but it has) with rental properties being sold as first home buyers buy properties outside of Auckland.
Watch the waiting list for state & emergency housing grow longer and longer.
Kiwibuild, anyone?
Aaah, good old whataboutery.
We all have the potential for violence. What about that bloke on the bus that looked at me funny? I'm concerned for my safety. Who knows what he might do? I know, I'll ban him from the bus because of the potential for him to do me harm.
I sadly think we need to give a few more months due to the very slow and poor vaccination plan, until we reach about 80%. Then we should start opening the border by allowing in fully vaccinated people requiring a negative PCR test and no MIQ.
The Government needs to realise and accept that the MIQ booking system is a complete farce and failure and do away with it. Control incoming passenger numbers through airlines selling seats, with a set % in economy class (i.e. cheap). That's my angle.
An elimination strategy is a fallacy.
I'm not advocating anything - spruiking ideas only.
When we open covid will come.
Those unvaccinated will get it (vaccinated will too but have less effect generally (nothing with this is absolute)) and a large number could end up in hospitals.
This could stretch the system and people with other issues will have their treatment delayed.
The effect is more than just covid.
Vaccinated people can also be infected and contagious. Being unvaccinated doesn't make you infected and contagious. There is the potential, hence my analogy to violence.
Life can never be made risk free. At some point we as a country have to choose to get on with life and live with Covid. As the rest of the world appears to be doing. We are just in for the shock of Community transmission from which we have been bubble wrapped to this point.
After vaccinations have penetrated those who want it, Anti-vaxers would "tend" to harm much more other anti-vaxers - just as other "considerate" smokers "tend" to harm much more other "considerate" smokers in their huddles outside buildings etc.
Edit: Covid variant progression is a big concern of course. If refusing a vaccination is within a person's legal rights there is no way NZ could refuse the full range of medical services available to a NZ resident.
This often repeated euphemism of, 'getting on with life and living with Covid' is such a fantasy & contradiction.
Not much respect shown to the 4.3 million people who have died ( actual number much higher as countries like China under report ) in not much over 12 months, with over 200 million cases with a percentage suffering severe life threatening illness.
And now countries with open borders are reporting new waves from the more virulent Delta variant with the even more virulent Lambada variant not far behind.
Life isn't risk free, but just as we don't 'get on with life & live with' people getting behind the wheel of their car & driving after drinking a couple of bottles of wine just because we it happens or because we can't interfere with their rights & freedoms, we don't need this urge to be reckless about opening up the border while 63% of our eligible population are yet to be vaccinated & a health system which would be completely overwhelmed.
The virus has changed, once these new variants like Delta get into a country, they are proving incredibly hard to get out.
Further, the majority of people in NZ are getting on with life & enjoying far more freedom than most countries.
You call it a fantasy and a contradiction and then go on a lengthy spiel demonstrating neither. I also don't know how I showed any disrepect to those who have died.
All over the world countries are removing restrictions and have made the decision to live with Covid at some level.
BTW I didn't show any disrespect to the 9 million people who die from hunger each and every year either. Most of those deaths entirely preventable with a lot less effort and disruption than has been applied to the pandemic. Sometimes a sense of perspective is a healthy thing.
Makes Covid sound so mild so harmless, inoffensive like a minor inconvenience for everyone instead of the blunt reality for many, who experienced a lonely suffering death often isolated from family & friends, struggling to breath with inflamed lungs & multi organ failure.
That's been the reality for 4.3 million people so far who have died plus millions more who have been in ICU or experienced severe illness but been able to recover at home.
I don't know if you've ever experienced the terror of seeing a loved one in an isolation unit fighting for their life, while everyone is gowned up for protection with gloves & safety glasses & the only physical contact is through latex gloves, but it's pretty sobering.
Never said 'Covid' was a euphemism....?
Using the phrase 'getting on with life & living with Covid' was a euphemistically way of describing the effects of the pandemic used to downplay the blunt reality for the many who have died or suffered from the virus.
Anyway whatever grammatical term you feel comfortable with is fine with me, didn't mean to offend your highly tuned sense of English grammar.
There is nothing analgous about it. Violence is a matter of self-control, and can be opposed. It's a crime which police can prosecute for. A covid spreader can't control what they spread, if they even know they are infected at the time, and the potential victims do not have the self defence option. (apart from the limited mask protection available) And more often than not, they will have no idea who the spreader-culprit is.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the analogy.
As already covered extensively here, the vaccinated can also be spreaders. So returning to my original issue with dobby41....who is it we are so keen to persecute here? And to what extent are people to be vilified?
Remaining vaccinated is still within a person's rights in NZ. A more pertinent question would be should the state be obliged to treat those who injure themselves during the commission of a crime? Should they always be at the end of the queue in accident and emergency departments? The trouble with that is that you would need to judicially prove any crime or wrongdoing before withholding treatment. Otherwise you risk kangaroo court injustice.