Keep maintaining the Umuroa until the POO has recovered to some sensible level, I say.
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mackdunk,
You have not removed yourself from current market losses like you say you have...
you admittedly locked in higher fixed interest rates, which are now being used to support bank balance sheets as they struggle with the current market situation... So you sold your shares, but you pay much higher locked interest rates... To be completely honest you have transferred your losses to different asset classes...
so dont be giving us a hard time... I know im right... you taught me the insights too well... I too gave you grave warnings...
you were tipping your position on interest rates at the peak of the cycle...
If we losen up all the assumptions, you are effectively indifferent between the losses on the sharemarket compared to losses on fixed term rates (as housing uses other peoples money, and is leveraged)...
come on mackdunk... fess up?... what about the other things I addressed before... hehe... im now underground on the homebuyers thread... I cant be bothered with it all as you know...
I will post our new heads up competition now...
peace out... lets remain respectful towards other posters please...
If you want to pull us apart then please address us properly...
Your mate Shrewd keeping all facts open and honest...
peace...
:cool:
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SHREWDY we are getting a bit off topic here will reply tonight on the property thread.
The price of oil cant get much lower without a cut back in production which in turn will create another price hike. Now is the time to buy barrels of top grade lubricant, and stick them in the shed to sell back later. That is a practical way to avoid a money crash or inflation which ever comes first, much safer than shares. Buy in bad times material things that hold their value, money is only a promise to pay stampted on a bit of paper. Macdunk
aint nothing more off topic than saying poor dumb clucks...
what about your other famous sayings?
mackdunk...
there are famous posters on this thread (luckier than I in this period) who hold NZO only...there are famous king pins here behind the scenes who hold NZO only.... wheres Jimbo?
they have seen their stock rise 50% plus and then pull back 50%...
they have seen the market fall 50%....
effectively their assets have gone sideways in a falling market...
why would these people be poor dumb clucks...? explain that?
this is magical for them...
long termers are still up......
some traders are still up over the last few years...
mackdunk, please give it up to them and us for surviving in these times...
holla...
:cool:
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BRAZILIAN mining giant Vale said it will not reduce the price of its iron ore to push sales volumes higher.
“Price isn’t the problem. Clients aren’t asking for discounts, they’re asking for delays in shipments,” Vale's chief executive Roger Agnelli said in a presentation overnight.
According to Mr Agnelli, the volumes of iron ore stocks in Australia and Brazil have dropped dramatically, and this is worrying.
“If possible, we need to build our inventory. Our ports are completely empty and we need to have 3 million to 4 million tonnes at each port,” Mr Agnelli said.
He added that the heated demand before the onset of the economic crisis was unsustainable.
“I thought it wasn’t possible to produce at 110 per cent to 115 per cent nominal capacity, delaying maintenance, etc.," Mr Agnelli said.
“I also thought the $US55,000-a-tonne nickel price last year was not sustainable, likewise the heavy investment by hedge funds in commodities.”
Mr Agnelli said Vale needed to be flexible and, at the moment, it was best to act calmly.
“All our options are open, investments, acquisitions. We’ll be in this position for one or two months,” the chief executive said.
“We face one simple reality: the market reality.”
When asked whether now was the best time to make an acquisition, given depreciated stock prices, Mr Agnelli said” “The best accusation we can make is buying back our shares. We’re in good shape, I don’t know about the other companies. Our investments (in Vale) bring in more shareholder value than acquisitions. Our projects bring in a higher return.”
Mr Agnelli conceded that any acquisition could be considered if it consolidated Vale operations, such as in the coal sector.
Furthermore, he said recent production cuts were a response to market conditions. He cited the announced suspension of alumina output at the company’s Valesul unit in Rio de Janeiro.
“We felt Valesul was about to lose money in one or two months, so we closed it down,” he said.
Vale recently cut its iron ore output by 30 million tonnes a year, suspended ferroalloy and alumina production in some of its units, and also reduced nickel output.
“There’s no market for manganese and nickel. Some are selling nickel at $US8,000 a tonne. We don’t need to sell. We’re cutting costs and keeping cash,” Mr Agnelli said.
“We have a lot of cash right now, and we need to wait a little bit. In late January, we will have a clearer idea of the (market) situation.”
In addition, Mr Agnelli continued to express optimism about future prospects.
“China in the long and medium term is good, as are the prospects for Latin America and Brazil,” he said.
He dismissed “as gossip” press reports of conflict with Chinese steel mills. In fact, he said: “We’re very close to our (Chinese) clients.”
Mr Agnelli said the downturn in iron ore demand would mean that 50 per cent of producers would be out of the market.
“The next two to three months will clarify who is in the market and who is out.”
[
“I thought it wasn’t possible to produce at 110 per cent to 115 per cent nominal capacity, delaying maintenance, etc.," Mr Agnelli said.
I suspect this applies to oil as well -nzo wont be the only ones stopping production for maintainace .
Talk seems to be of big drops in Saudi production next month .
IEA predicting rises in demand .
A recipe for soring prices-just dont know when - futures are higher than current prices-you could make a fortune storing oil- ?best if nzo leaves it in the ground for now-certainly couldnt be a better time to do maintainance
10% increase in crude last night too. I wonder how that will be treated today...
Agree totally fish .Also remembering the gas from TUI was shuntted aside as oil price was too high to stop. Now is a good time to relook at this problem and another very good reason to delay restarting Tui if one is needed.I presonally think we should do something about this gas as it will seem very legally waistful any time in the future.It could also maybe even now turned into a profit.Remember the not yet found oil near TUI will also most likely be gas fulled as well. Too much to waist.
Digger
I understand the production cost for Tui is arond $79bbl?
I think you understand wrong.
Its been stated many times the opex for tui on this thread. Have a look...tui as a whole project including capex was viable (and returning an acceptable ROI) at $40usd bbl, so does $79 bbl sound right for production?
Bermuda,
NZO chairman's address to the AGM on 29 Oct. included these per bbl figures re Tui (in NZ$):
Production expense $17, Marketing $7, Dep and Amortisation $ 16
So cost before royalty and tax = NZ$40.
Using oil at US$45/barrel, royalty = US$5.6 or NZ$10.
Tax on profit = NZ$10.
All up cost and tax to NZO per barrel = NZ$60.
So profit to NZO = NZ$23/barrel.
Are the figures right?
If they are, Tui will need to be shut down if oil goes to US$30/barrel?
Depreciation/Amortisation is the writing down of the book value of the asset over it's useful life. Yes there should be money spent on maintenance but it is nothing like the amount that is expensed through depreciation.
Depreciation and providing for futre income streams are unrelated. The $16 of depreciation will only relate to the Tui project expenditure.
Buffet once asked "Does management think the tooth fairy pays for capital expenditures?" .... think about 'cash' and future (capital} requirements to replace the current cash flows so NZO can continue to prosper well inot the future ... thats what i was trying to get at when suggesting that D&A are in essence 'cash' .... even though in pure accounting terms you are correct in saying what you have said.
Let's think this through.
NZO spends, say $100m finding and developing an oilfield. The $100m is then capitalised. This could come from shareholders' funds or it could come from borrowings.
Let's assume it comes from borrowings. As NZO generates revenue from the oil field, it sets aside $100m as amortisation of the oilfield. This is then used to pay off the borrowings.
Net net, NZO is no better off unless it used shareholders' funds to fund the $100m. In which case, NZO will have $100m in cash at the end of it all. It will then use the $100m to try and find a new well to replace the depleting one - otherwise, NZO goes out of business.
Remember dividends can only be paid from profits so amortisation and depreciation arec real expenses.
.
If readers wish to know more about this Depreciation/Amortisation, please refer to the NZOG’s Financial Statements for the year ended 30 June 2008: -
http://www.nzog.net/f111,57934/57934...it_Opinion.pdf
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17 Exploration and evaluation, development and production assets
a. Exploration and evaluation assets
b. Development assets
c. Production assets
.