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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #4121
    yeah, nah
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    Hmm - signed up for Squirrel but might not jump just yet:

    6% for 1 Year (not guaranteed 1 year if not sold on secondary market) - 1 Yr Term Deposit on $10K = 3.5%.
    6.9-7% for 2-3 years (based on about $50K in the queue) - 3yr Term Deposit of $10K = 3.8%
    7.5% for 5-7 years (based on $50K in the queue) - 5 yr Term Deposit on $10K = 3.95%

    Those numbers just don't look good enough to me and I'm not keen to lock money in long term at low rates at this point in time.

    I think I'd do better taking some A's and B's from Harmoney or re-persisting with LC and placing some larger amounts based on their lower default rate.

    Hmm...

    The P2P market seems to be stuffed (driven down by too many investors or taken over by the banks...). Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic ;(

  2. #4122
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    NZ P2P does seem to be becoming dominated by the wholesale investors. Harmoney’s institutional investor % of loans has been continually edging up over time.
    https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors...ace-statistics

    At least with squirrel the return offered is after both their fees and their charge to the reserve fund to cover write-offs. With the others you may or may not be able to deduct write-offs for tax.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 25-02-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  3. #4123
    yeah, nah
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    LC's delay between loan listing and email is atrocious...

    Only way to 'manually' invest is to auto-refresh every 30-60 secs and watch it - still very broken...but perhaps usable...

    LC flex rates are pretty poor - makes Harmoney A's and B's look even better...

  4. #4124
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    Re LC - Its only really worth it to invest in the 10% interest flex. The 25% flex helps increase the volume through agents. Altogether though unfortunately very few loans.

    Bjauck - squirrels interest rate would be closest to HM A3 (9.2% less 15% = 7.8%). I don't attribute any value to loan shield, as the cost of HM defaults at that grade should be low.

  5. #4125
    yeah, nah
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    Default Liquidity of Harmoney Loans

    Some may find this of interest - Liquidity of Harmoney Loans:

    For the nearly 2 years I've had ~$100K invested, the average age of my Paid Off loans (1370 Loans) is 255 days and the average age of my current loans (996) is 369 days. [Charged off loans average age is 348 days]

    I guess if things go to custard these figures will change, but Liquidity, perhaps, is not such a big issue when compared to the alternatives (if you want to at least keep up with inflation).

    Not sure if this is similar across all P2P markets though?

    NB: Total turnover for my loans has been $265,475.00 [added] and that doesn't include re-investing $20K - so in 2 years about a 3x turnover.
    Last edited by myles; 25-02-2019 at 01:02 PM. Reason: added

  6. #4126
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Some may find this of interest - Liquidity of Harmoney Loans:

    For the nearly 2 years I've had ~$100K invested, the average age of my Paid Off loans (1370 Loans) is 255 days and the average age of my current loans (996) is 369 days. [Charged off loans average age is 348 days]

    I guess if things go to custard these figures will change, but Liquidity, perhaps, is not such a big issue when compared to the alternatives (if you want to at least keep up with inflation).

    Not sure if this is similar across all P2P markets though?

    NB: Total turnover for my loans has been $265,475.00 [added] and that doesn't include re-investing $20K - so in 2 years about a 3x turnover.
    Not for the faint hearted!

    My repayment rate is tracking at 2% of principal repayments of outstanding per week, which annualises to 65%. Not too bad if you want to get out quick.

    Dovetails in with your figures. Invest $x p/a to hold a book of $x (where x is insert your chosen portfolio size).

  7. #4127
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    christchurch
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Taking stock of Harmoney's poor loan availability over the last 4-5 months and have decided to move some money out.

    .......................
    .......................
    I hope things change - either more loans, or Harmoney swing the Wholesale:Retail ratio back a bit, but I can't hold out any longer...
    In January 2018, I invested in over 500 new loans for that month. Had been downhill after that. January 2019, only 79. This month, will be lucky to hit 50. Took out about 25% in cash in the last 12 months and despite that the cash balance is still growing too fast.

    Over at Zagga, there does not seems to be enough investors and (the very few) loans take quite a number of days to fill and sometimes cannot be filled. Admittedly the loans there are quite large - sometimes well over $1m. So maybe some of you with loads of spare cash can go there and help out.

  8. #4128
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Some may find this of interest - Liquidity of Harmoney Loans:

    For the nearly 2 years I've had ~$100K invested, the average age of my Paid Off loans (1370 Loans) is 255 days and the average age of my current loans (996) is 369 days. [Charged off loans average age is 348 days]

    I guess if things go to custard these figures will change, but Liquidity, perhaps, is not such a big issue when compared to the alternatives (if you want to at least keep up with inflation).

    Not sure if this is similar across all P2P markets though?

    NB: Total turnover for my loans has been $265,475.00 [added] and that doesn't include re-investing $20K - so in 2 years about a 3x turnover.
    yeah I found if you put a bunch of money in across a diversified loan spread and don't re-invest you will get about 50% of your money back via interest and loans being paid back early, i the first year.

    Mirin your returns btw myles - I invested just over $100k initially and have left it withdrawal out til I got to a balance of $50k which is where I am at now. I've been in about 2.5 years.

  9. #4129
    yeah, nah
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    Default Zagga query

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Bear View Post
    Over at Zagga, there does not seems to be enough investors and (the very few) loans take quite a number of days to fill and sometimes cannot be filled. Admittedly the loans there are quite large - sometimes well over $1m. So maybe some of you with loads of spare cash can go there and help out.
    CB, do you know how much of the single listed default loan was recovered. The Zagga model is quite different to others. Having to invest much larger sums in limited loans increases the risk from not diversifying. However, if their loans are as well sourced and secured as they suggest, it might be worth the risk.

    Are the loans under the 'Search Loans' tab, currently available loans with the % value the amount funded? When I first saw that I was confused and thought that the % was the rate which made no sense with same 'grade' i.e. C4 loans with large rate ranges i.e. from 7.59% to 14.39%:

    loan1.jpg

    loan2.jpg

    How long does it typically take for those loans to actually get filled - I assume you need to have the funds sitting idle while the loan is filled?

    Thanks CB.

  10. #4130
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    Default Zagga

    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    CB, do you know how much of the single listed default loan was recovered. The Zagga model is quite different to others. Having to invest much larger sums in limited loans increases the risk from not diversifying. However, if their loans are as well sourced and secured as they suggest, it might be worth the risk.

    Are the loans under the 'Search Loans' tab, currently available loans with the % value the amount funded? When I first saw that I was confused and thought that the % was the rate which made no sense with same 'grade' i.e. C4 loans with large rate ranges i.e. from 7.59% to 14.39%:

    loan1.jpg

    loan2.jpg

    How long does it typically take for those loans to actually get filled - I assume you need to have the funds sitting idle while the loan is filled?

    Thanks CB.
    I address your last question first. You do not have to deposit funds with Zagga at all. Only after a loan gets filled, they will email you and give you a date when your agreed investments must reach them. So no idle funds in that sense.

    The interest rates seems to be all over the place. The grading is based on risk of defaults as well as LVR (loan to value ratio). They do have a guide on what interest rate they charge for each grade but they seems to deviate from that and treat each case on its merit.

    When a loan is published, there are a ton of information. Everything is disclosed, name of person/s (company), their credit ratings, sale and purchase agreement (if applicable), their income, their assets and liability, valuation of the property, etc etc.. So you can take your time to decide. You are much closer to a loan officer in a bank than with Harmoney or the others.

    As for that default, the LVR was really low, well below 50%, so nobody lost any money yet.

    Loans take days to weeks to fill. Sometime not at all. So it is the other way round - not enough investors or maybe not enough investors willing to part with their money. They also have a feature where an investor can come in and take the whole amount of loan (before it is filled) and kick out all the others. So far happen to only one loan where I pledge a few thousand$. By the way, minimum investment in a loan is $1000.

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