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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    Attachment 9544

    Just for additional info Joker, my average loan is $600 and I've had two write-offs over 3 years
    Thanks BJ1. I envy your obvious skill in picking sound loans - I could never pick/reason which loans are worthy of $600. Your low level of charge-offs is nothing short of amazing. My loans are 50/50 autolend/picking and are almost exclusively $25 units. I also like your reasoning with 36 month loans.
    ScreenHunt.jpg
    Last edited by joker; 09-03-2018 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #3107
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntheRearWithTheGear View Post
    dunno, if i should be happy or sad.

    Attachment 9550
    I think happy - the return still looks good. Looking at your investment grade mix, I am assuming that you are now leaving D,E & Fs alone to reduce charge-offs as surely $8K can't be as a result of A,B & Cs?

  3. #3108
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    I intially invested in anything with a ratio of 15% monthly payment to income ratio across all bands, in the early days there wasnt enough loans to get to get the cash into the system - so you couldnt invest fast enough and maintain diversity. So early days was across all loan types. NOw i only do a-b-c

    A mistake ive made is that i have 50k spread over 785 loans (most are a-b types)(roughly $75 per loan).

    Most days i have less than $200 as a float in the account so constantly renewing everyday. - ideally it should be 25 per loan - world is not perfect. It took a year to spend the first aprox 80k - so its not an investment in one lump sum.

    Using excel the xirr is 11.54% after tax over 1137 days since first investment.


    Breakdown of charge offs, debt sold and hardship

    C5 17
    C4 8
    E4 26
    E5 27
    E2 28
    F3 14
    C2 7
    B1 3
    B5 10
    D1 24
    D4 18
    D5 18
    D3 13
    F2 16
    F1 21
    E1 16
    B3 8
    C1 9
    C3 9
    E3 28
    F4 10
    D2 20
    B4 6
    F5 36
    A5 5
    A1 1
    B2 3
    A3 1
    A4 1
    403
    Last edited by IntheRearWithTheGear; 09-03-2018 at 03:14 PM.

  4. #3109
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    Charge offs: 0.82% (on number of loans)
    Avg weighted Interest: 20.08%
    RAR: 16.32%

  5. #3110
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    Commendable results, myles, joker and BJ1. $600 per loan is indeed brave for an early 6-figure portfolio, BJ1, but had you not shown the numbers I would never have believed what you've achieved over 3 years, could be done. Kudos!

    Interesting raw default data, ITRWTgear

  6. #3111
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    I have been reluctant to post my own results as my Harmoney investments are obviously on the riskier side, but I am certainly pleased with my current RAR at 17.57%. Since you are all so open to sharing I've felt rude just snooping and thought you might be interested.
    I have been in for 12 months now, hopefully the RAR curve settles!
    Screen Shot 2018-03-13 at 11.15.20 AM.jpg

    Screen Shot 2018-03-13 at 11.15.34 AM.jpg

  7. #3112
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    Quote Originally Posted by reacher View Post
    I have been reluctant to post my own results as my Harmoney investments are obviously on the riskier side, but I am certainly pleased with my current RAR at 17.57%. Since you are all so open to sharing I've felt rude just snooping and thought you might be interested.
    I have been in for 12 months now, hopefully the RAR curve settles!
    Screen Shot 2018-03-13 at 11.15.20 AM.jpg

    Screen Shot 2018-03-13 at 11.15.34 AM.jpg

    ahh yeah... I would think you are gonna start to see a lot of those higher risk grades defaulting...
    Thats what I have seen with my E's and F's

  8. #3113
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    Today is my 3rd anniversary of Harmoney lending. Report card so far over this period; over 1840 all time loans taken, of which 48% have been repaid.

    Personal RAR has increased to 14.31%, 410 pips above today's platform RAR. All time Charge-offs 35, E and F grades 16/101= 15.84% and A-D grades 19/1740= 1.092%

    A note to these stats, 500 of my current loans have been taken since August 1 2017 when Harmoney introduced V1.5 interest rate card, so I expect more Charge offs and a possible stabilization of the RAR.

    The sharp glitch downward on the chart toward the end of 2015 was a result of heavy charge-offs in the E-F grades. Today have less than 40 active loans remaining in A,E,F.

    RAR 3 Year History.JPG
    Last edited by permutation; 15-03-2018 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #3114
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    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    Today is my 3rd anniversary of Harmoney lending. Report card so far over this period; over 1840 all time loans taken, of which 48% have been repaid.

    Personal RAR has increased to 14.31%, 410 pips above today's platform RAR. All time Charge-offs 35, E and F grades 16/101= 15.84% and A-D grades 19/1740= 1.092%

    A note to these stats, 500 of my current loans have been taken since August 1 2017 when Harmoney introduced V1.5 interest rate card, so I expect more Charge offs and a possible stabilization of the RAR.

    The sharp glitch downward on the chart toward the end of 2015 was a result of heavy charge-offs in the E-F grades. Today have less than 40 active loans remaining in A,E,F.

    RAR 3 Year History.JPG

    Nice.
    It seems the E's and F's where not as good as we thought they where. Once they cull themselves from your portfolio then your RAR can creep back up a bit.

    So I've been in half of what you have (18 months), with 1,907 all time loans, the current number (active or arrears) being 1,049. I started with $100 in each loan, but now rarely do this, usually $50 or $75, my current average loan value is now $70.73.

    My RAR currently sits at 13.73%

    At peak I did have 43 F's and 138 E's, this has now reduced to 21 F's and 108 E's (i still invest in E1's). By value however, at peack E/F's where 18.6% of my portfolio, now they are 13%.

    I hope my rar slowly edges back up as I focus on B/C/D 36 month loans with Harmoney 1.5.

    harmoney 18 months.JPG
    Last edited by alistar_mid; 15-03-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #3115
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    In the absence of tax guidance or a ruling for retail investors "not in business", given the seemingly high proportion of non-deductible charge-offs to gross interest for a moderately risky (b's and c's) portfolio of notes, would it make more sense for those investors to invest in Lending Crowd and Squirrel? In other words is Harmoney best for Big peers in the business of lending and should little peers be best investing in other P2P vehicles?

    Even for less risky lower interest earning Harmoney notes (a's and b's) the Harmoney fees are higher than Lending Crowd's - and without the level of security Lending Crowd has.

  11. #3116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    In the absence of tax guidance or a ruling for retail investors "not in business", given the seemingly high proportion of non-deductible charge-offs to gross interest for a moderately risky (b's and c's) portfolio of notes, would it make more sense for those investors to invest in Lending Crowd and Squirrel? In other words is Harmoney best for Big peers in the business of lending and should little peers be best investing in other P2P vehicles?

    Even for less risky lower interest earning Harmoney notes (a's and b's) the Harmoney fees are higher than Lending Crowd's - and without the level of security Lending Crowd has.
    lol, i phoned IRD explained to IRD what harmoney was, sent them a letter with my tax return

    I claimed harmoneys fees as an expense.

  12. #3117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    In the absence of tax guidance or a ruling for retail investors "not in business", given the seemingly high proportion of non-deductible charge-offs to gross interest for a moderately risky (b's and c's) portfolio of notes, would it make more sense for those investors to invest in Lending Crowd and Squirrel? In other words is Harmoney best for Big peers in the business of lending and should little peers be best investing in other P2P vehicles?

    Even for less risky lower interest earning Harmoney notes (a's and b's) the Harmoney fees are higher than Lending Crowd's - and without the level of security Lending Crowd has.

    Have you actually tried investing in Lending Crowd? I only have $25k in there and unless I put $250+ in each loan (only B1 or B2) it's impossible to get it all invested. I had $700 sitting in there for a fortnight and managed to get $300 out yesterday in one loan, but missed the second loan. Loans disappear in a matter of seconds so unless you have your own software that auto invests you're going to be out-of-luck; even the available auto investor doesn't pick them all up because it only checks every couple of minutes.

    I'm also claiming my Harmoney fees and write-offs as an expense. I treat it like a job.

  13. #3118
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrenc View Post
    Have you actually tried investing in Lending Crowd? I only have $25k in there and unless I put $250+ in each loan (only B1 or B2) it's impossible to get it all invested. I had $700 sitting in there for a fortnight and managed to get $300 out yesterday in one loan, but missed the second loan. Loans disappear in a matter of seconds so unless you have your own software that auto invests you're going to be out-of-luck; even the available auto investor doesn't pick them all up because it only checks every couple of minutes.
    Agree there are pros and cons with all P2P. However at least your LC balance sitting unused can be withdrawn in full and deployed elsewhere should you become impatient or decide not to use an off-site auto-investor.

    I'm also claiming my Harmoney fees and write-offs as an expense. I treat it like a job.
    I think that is how it should be treated however there has not been guidance to that effect from the IRD (or from Harmoney for all retail investors for that matter). Clarity would be great. In fact I have only seen Financial Review articles - sorry no citations - that would cast doubt on that, especially in regards to write-offs. If everyone could claim Lender fees why doesn't Harmoney deduct RWT from gross interest less fees? One could pay a couple of hundred? for an accountant's researched opinion (and for an investor with say $10,000 that would severely diminish their year's interest) first but would the accountant's opinion coincide with the IRD's - whatever that is? Definitely DYOR.

    It would be great to have guidance for all investors to the effect that the net blended return (interest-fees-chargeoffs) from P2P is taxable income. Still no sign of that.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 16-03-2018 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #3119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    . If everyone could claim Lender fees why doesn't Harmoney deduct RWT from gross interest less fees? .
    they are claimable, Like I have said, I have checked with the IRD, you guys should check for yourself though.

    and I did ask harmoney this, but they just gave some generic stupid answer



    You didn't really answer my question.



    You are paying my tax based on gross interest.

    Tax is normally paid on profit, that being gross interest less harmoney fees.

    Is it possible for you guys to do this or do I need to keep doing an adjustment with the IRD?

    Thanks heaps!


    Hi Alistar - thanks for your reply.

    Harmoney allow lenders to set the rate for the RWT deductions based on their personal tax situation and the RWT percentage can be reviewed and updated in the tax section of your lending account:
    https://www.harmoney.co.nz/lender/po...ax/tax-details

    We expect that fees paid by Lenders to Harmoney will be tax deductible and recommend seeking independent tax advice from an accountant or tax specialist when preparing a tax return.

    The platform loan volumes over time are now available on our Marketplace Statistics page (currently: $710m for NZ as at 18/02).
    https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors...ace-statistics


  15. #3120
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrenc View Post

    I'm also claiming my Harmoney fees and write-offs as an expense. I treat it like a job.
    Same, didn't have write offs this time last year as was only 6 months in, but have nearly $5k this year, will be claiming them too

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